From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Jun 3 13:16:15 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 13:16:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun Message-ID: For our Tuesday June 28th, 2011 meeting, Gates Voyer-Perrault from 10gen.com will be talking about MongoDB. MongoDB is a new document-oriented database. It provides a new paradigm for storing and accessing data, one that works very naturally with Perl. We'll cover the basics of - What is it? - Why do I care? - How do I get it working? - What about ORMs? (time permitting) For those interested in hands-on, please bring your laptop. Instructions for getting started will be posted and we can do some interactive demos. RSVP at Meetup - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/20864421/ MongoDB - http://mongodb.org 10gen - http://10gen.com From josh at agliodbs.com Mon Jun 6 16:01:23 2011 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 16:01:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> On 6/3/11 1:16 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > MongoDB is a new document-oriented database. It provides a new > paradigm for storing and accessing data, one that works very naturally > with Perl. Actually, it's a very old paradigm. Goes back to around 1963. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com From matt at lanier.org Mon Jun 6 16:08:00 2011 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 16:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: is mongoDB "web scale"? m@ On Mon, 6 Jun 2011, Josh Berkus wrote: > On 6/3/11 1:16 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >> MongoDB is a new document-oriented database. It provides a new >> paradigm for storing and accessing data, one that works very naturally >> with Perl. > > Actually, it's a very old paradigm. Goes back to around 1963. > > From dan at keller.com Mon Jun 6 19:01:58 2011 From: dan at keller.com (Dan Keller) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:01:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> I agree with Matt's question -- I think we're both stuck on the tortured English syntax -- by "web scale" I'm guessing they mean "scale the web app from supporting dozens of users to millions" (what every web app provider dreams of!) and with Josh's comment, too -- this isn't the first non-relational DBMS nor even the first document-oriented DBMS. Josh probably has a specific technology in mind and I can think of some, too. Most "new" technologies in each generation are, conceptually, not new (older generations did similar things) but have new names and new "syntactic sugar" (as one of my CS profs used to call it.) In this case, the idea is that relational DBMSs are not the best tool for every job. Obviously. But they are a mature technology. Also obvious. Just my $0.02. -- Dan Keller dan at keller.com http://www.dan.keller.com +1 (415) 861-4500 On 6/6/2011 4:08 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: > is mongoDB "web scale"? > > > > m@ > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2011, Josh Berkus wrote: > >> On 6/3/11 1:16 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >>> MongoDB is a new document-oriented database. It provides a new >>> paradigm for storing and accessing data, one that works very naturally >>> with Perl. >> >> Actually, it's a very old paradigm. Goes back to around 1963. From greg at blekko.com Mon Jun 6 19:43:37 2011 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 19:43:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> Message-ID: <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> In the search engine space, 'web scale' means that you index billions of pages. The video is funny, but when the SQL guy starts talking about how SQL works great for 99.9% of companies, I think, "Yes, and I'm in the 0.1%, that's what web scale means." I'll venture to bet that most people define 'web scale' according to their personal experiences. Which makes it difficult to talk about. Petabyte of data? That's a nice ante for the web scale game. As for your comments about new technologies, yes, almost everything in CS is recycled. It can be very useful to to study the technologies you're reinventing. -- greg On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 07:01:58PM -0700, Dan Keller wrote: > I agree with Matt's question -- I think we're both stuck on the > tortured English syntax -- by "web scale" I'm guessing they > mean "scale the web app from supporting dozens of users > to millions" (what every web app provider dreams of!) > and with Josh's comment, too -- this isn't the first non-relational > DBMS nor even the first document-oriented DBMS. > Josh probably has a specific technology in mind and I can > think of some, too. > > Most "new" technologies in each generation are, conceptually, > not new (older generations did similar things) but have new > names and new "syntactic sugar" (as one of my CS profs > used to call it.) In this case, the idea is that relational DBMSs > are not the best tool for every job. Obviously. But they are a > mature technology. Also obvious. > > Just my $0.02. > > -- > Dan Keller > dan at keller.com > http://www.dan.keller.com > +1 (415) 861-4500 > > > > On 6/6/2011 4:08 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: >> is mongoDB "web scale"? >> >> >> >> m@ >> >> On Mon, 6 Jun 2011, Josh Berkus wrote: >> >>> On 6/3/11 1:16 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >>>> MongoDB is a new document-oriented database. It provides a new >>>> paradigm for storing and accessing data, one that works very naturally >>>> with Perl. >>> >>> Actually, it's a very old paradigm. Goes back to around 1963. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From matt at lanier.org Mon Jun 6 21:01:05 2011 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 21:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> Message-ID: my apologies, folks, for not noting that the video i posted wasn't safe for work with a [NSFW] tag. m@ On Mon, 6 Jun 2011, Greg Lindahl wrote: > In the search engine space, 'web scale' means that you index billions > of pages. The video is funny, but when the SQL guy starts talking > about how SQL works great for 99.9% of companies, I think, "Yes, and > I'm in the 0.1%, that's what web scale means." > > I'll venture to bet that most people define 'web scale' according to > their personal experiences. Which makes it difficult to talk > about. Petabyte of data? That's a nice ante for the web scale game. > > As for your comments about new technologies, yes, almost everything in > CS is recycled. It can be very useful to to study the technologies > you're reinventing. > > -- greg > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 07:01:58PM -0700, Dan Keller wrote: >> I agree with Matt's question -- I think we're both stuck on the >> tortured English syntax -- by "web scale" I'm guessing they >> mean "scale the web app from supporting dozens of users >> to millions" (what every web app provider dreams of!) >> and with Josh's comment, too -- this isn't the first non-relational >> DBMS nor even the first document-oriented DBMS. >> Josh probably has a specific technology in mind and I can >> think of some, too. >> >> Most "new" technologies in each generation are, conceptually, >> not new (older generations did similar things) but have new >> names and new "syntactic sugar" (as one of my CS profs >> used to call it.) In this case, the idea is that relational DBMSs >> are not the best tool for every job. Obviously. But they are a >> mature technology. Also obvious. >> >> Just my $0.02. >> >> -- >> Dan Keller >> dan at keller.com >> http://www.dan.keller.com >> +1 (415) 861-4500 >> >> >> >> On 6/6/2011 4:08 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: >>> is mongoDB "web scale"? >>> >>> >>> >>> m@ >>> >>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2011, Josh Berkus wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/3/11 1:16 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >>>>> MongoDB is a new document-oriented database. It provides a new >>>>> paradigm for storing and accessing data, one that works very naturally >>>>> with Perl. >>>> >>>> Actually, it's a very old paradigm. Goes back to around 1963. >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From josh at agliodbs.com Tue Jun 7 11:03:21 2011 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 11:03:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> Message-ID: <4DEE67E9.6060109@agliodbs.com> Greg, > I'll venture to bet that most people define 'web scale' according to > their personal experiences. Right. And unfortunately the marketdroids want to do the exact opposite and claim that their solution is perfect for every workload. It just makes it hard for me to take MongoDB seriously when they keep throwing around this total buzzword nonsense, even in completely inappropriate venues (like perlmongers). If someone says things like "new paradigm" or "web scale" to me, then it tells me that person has no idea what they're talking about, regardless of the merits of the technology they favor. "Index billions of pages" is a meaningful benchmark, as is "store petabytes of data". "Webscale" is a content-free buzzword. Fred, do you have confirmation that we're getting an *engineer* for perlmongers and not a marketdroid? -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Jun 7 11:59:48 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 11:59:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: <4DEE67E9.6060109@agliodbs.com> References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> <4DEE67E9.6060109@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: > It just makes it hard for me to take MongoDB seriously when they keep throwing > around this total buzzword nonsense, even in completely inappropriate > venues (like perlmongers). We had a packed house and great reviews at the previous MongoDB meetup in September 2009, so I considered this topic to be appropriate to this group. It looks like you were at that meeting Josh: http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/11203260/ > Fred, do you have confirmation that we're getting an *engineer* for > perlmongers and not a marketdroid? The speaker at this meeting will be Ga?tan Voyer-Perraul, he is an engineer at 10gen.com - http://twitter.com/#!/gatesvp Marketdroid is a buzzword that I'm not familiar with, but I would have to say that he is not one from my guess at the meaning. From josh at agliodbs.com Tue Jun 7 16:25:53 2011 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 16:25:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> <4DEE67E9.6060109@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: <4DEEB381.9000808@agliodbs.com> Fred, > We had a packed house and great reviews at the previous MongoDB meetup > in September 2009, so I considered this topic to be appropriate to > this group. I'm not saying it's not appropriate. It is appropriate. Works with perl, no? > It looks like you were at that meeting Josh: > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/11203260/ Yeah, I'm just hoping that we'll get someone who can answer more of my questions this time. > The speaker at this meeting will be Ga?tan Voyer-Perraul, he is an > engineer at 10gen.com - http://twitter.com/#!/gatesvp Ok, great. Looking forward to it. I just wanted to check based on some of the talks at MySQLCon. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Jun 7 21:22:24 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 21:22:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun In-Reply-To: <4DEEB381.9000808@agliodbs.com> References: <4DED5C43.6040903@agliodbs.com> <4DED8696.6070209@keller.com> <20110607024337.GA32566@bx9.net> <4DEE67E9.6060109@agliodbs.com> <4DEEB381.9000808@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: >> >> It looks like you were at that meeting Josh: >> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/11203260/ > > Yeah, I'm just hoping that we'll get someone who can answer more of my > questions this time. Probably one of the downsides that comes with being a database expert, you ask the hard questions :) From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jun 15 10:32:33 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:32:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] MongoDB redux in two weeks Message-ID: @pagerduty will be hosting our meeting in two weeks and we'll be having pizza again! @gatesvp will be showing us how it is done with @mongodb http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/20864421/ From philiph at pobox.com Thu Jun 23 17:40:10 2011 From: philiph at pobox.com (Philip J. Hollenback) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:40:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] capture stdout and stderr, possibly supply input Message-ID: <1308876010.26581.1466632517@webmail.messagingengine.com> I am writing a perl script that needs to invoke an external program and collect the stdout and stderr of that program. I also need to check the return code. That's all pretty simple to do in a few ways, for example I tried IO::CaptureOutput and it works fine. My complication is that this external program may stop and ask for a password. If that happens, I need to get a password from the user and feed it to the external program to continue. Then I can capture the output I need after that (the password prompt will always happen before all other output). Thus I can't really use IO::CaptureOutput because it will halt and wait for the password input without displaying anything on stdout (since I'm already capturing stdout). I assume I can do this all with Expect.pm, but I wonder if anyone can think of a simpler way to deal with this one special input case. Or alternately, am I just missing something obvious? Thanks, P. -- Philip J. Hollenback philiph at pobox.com www.hollenback.net From richyen at iparadigms.com Fri Jun 24 12:26:37 2011 From: richyen at iparadigms.com (Richard Yen) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:26:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] question about SVN::Client Message-ID: <4D6016B1-ACCB-46E9-8354-FA99A53B3143@iparadigms.com> Hello! Just looking for a little help on the SVN::Client module: http://search.cpan.org/~mlanier/Alien-SVN-1.6.12.0/src/subversion/subversion/bindings/swig/perl/native/Client.pm The example in the synopsis shows $ctx->cat() with a filehandle reference to STDOUT. However, I'm looking to write a script that will just store the contents of the file in a scalar (eventually going to be an array). Any way to do this? Tried $ctx->cat (my $scalar, 'http://svn/path/to/file', 'HEAD'), but that doesn't seem to do the trick. I'd prefer not messing with the filesystem (i.e., writing files to disk, then having to clean up later). Basically, the file in the svn repository is a config file, so it really has no purpose on disk. Any thoughts? Thanks! --Richard From matt at lanier.org Fri Jun 24 12:46:42 2011 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] question about SVN::Client In-Reply-To: <4D6016B1-ACCB-46E9-8354-FA99A53B3143@iparadigms.com> References: <4D6016B1-ACCB-46E9-8354-FA99A53B3143@iparadigms.com> Message-ID: hi richard- given: $ctx->cat(\*FILEHANDLE, $target, $revision, $pool); off the top of my head, i'd consider tie'ing FILEHANDLE to a scalar. in other news, anyone else want to maintain this module? i'm not an SVN user anymore ;-) m@ On Fri, 24 Jun 2011, Richard Yen wrote: > Hello! > > Just looking for a little help on the SVN::Client module: http://search.cpan.org/~mlanier/Alien-SVN-1.6.12.0/src/subversion/subversion/bindings/swig/perl/native/Client.pm > > The example in the synopsis shows $ctx->cat() with a filehandle reference to STDOUT. However, I'm looking to write a script that will just store the contents of the file in a scalar (eventually going to be an array). Any way to do this? > > Tried $ctx->cat (my $scalar, 'http://svn/path/to/file', 'HEAD'), but that doesn't seem to do the trick. > > I'd prefer not messing with the filesystem (i.e., writing files to disk, then having to clean up later). Basically, the file in the svn repository is a config file, so it really has no purpose on disk. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks! > --Richard > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From not.com at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 14:52:07 2011 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:52:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] capture stdout and stderr, possibly supply input In-Reply-To: <1308876010.26581.1466632517@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1308876010.26581.1466632517@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Philip J. Hollenback wrote: > I am writing a perl script that needs to invoke an external program and > collect the stdout and stderr of that program. ?I also need to check the > return code. ... > My complication is that this external program may stop and ask for a > password. ?If that happens, I need to get a password from the user and > feed it to the external program to continue. ?Then I can capture the > output I need after that (the password prompt will always happen before > all other output). ?Thus I can't really use IO::CaptureOutput because it > will halt and wait for the password input without displaying anything on > stdout (since I'm already capturing stdout). Looking at the docs from IO::CaptureOutput, it will only return after the code is done, so you can't use it exactly in that case, as you suspected. You have two options: 1. Always pipe the password to the external program's stdin. If it needs it, it will get it, if it doesn't need it, no harm done. That assumes that the external program reads nothing else from its stdin. (Some programs read password from the terminal and not stdin, which is could complicate this approach). 2. Use IPC::Open2 or IPC::Open3. Check for a password at the start of reading, handle it, continue. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Jun 27 14:53:34 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:53:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl + MongoDB => Mongoers + Fun Message-ID: Just a quick reminder, our June meeting is tomorrow evening, 7pm, at Pager Duty on Mission street. Sridhar Nanjundeswaran from 10gen.com will be speaking instead of Ga?tan Voyer-Perrault, and we'll be having pizza sponsored by Pager Duty. http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/20864421/ From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jun 29 09:13:19 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:13:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: UG News: Save 50% - New & Bestselling Perl Ebooks & Videos, Plus Save on OSCON In-Reply-To: <1309330841.10776.0.523358@post.oreilly.com> References: <1309330841.10776.0.523358@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: If you were eyeing a particular Perl book, this looks like a great deal (today only) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Marsee Henon & Jon Johns" Date: Jun 29, 2011 12:01 AM Subject: UG News: Save 50% - New & Bestselling Perl Ebooks & Videos, Plus Save on OSCON To: View in browser. Forward this announcement to your user group or a friend. Save 50% - In Celebration of OSCON New & Bestselling Perl Ebooks & Videos The grandaddy of scripting languages, and the heart around which OSCON has grown, Perl is forever reinventing itself and advancing. In celebration of OSCON, you can Save 50% on all Perl ebooks and videos. One day only. Use discount code DDPRD in the shopping cart. This offer may not be combined with other offers. Ebooks from oreilly.com are DRM-free. You get free lifetime access, multiple file formats, free updates. Save 20% on OSCON July 25-29, Portland, Oregon As a valued O'Reilly customer, you can also Save 20% (over $400) when you register for OSCON. Use code "os11perl" > ________________________________ Learning Perl, Sixth Edition By Randal L. Schwartz, brian d foy, and Tom Phoenix Released: June 2011 (New!) Was: $31.99 Now: $15.99 Popularly known as "the Llama," Learning Perl is the book most programmers rely on to get started with this versatile language. 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If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee at oreilly.com. O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-7000 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sridhar at 10gen.com Wed Jun 29 16:18:57 2011 From: sridhar at 10gen.com (Sridhar Nanjundeswaran) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 16:18:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Introduction to MongoDB presentation Message-ID: Hi, Thanks for giving me an opportunity to present to you yesterday. Please go to http://www.speakerdeck.com/u/sridhar%20nanjundeswaran/p/mongodbintro_perlsfto view my slide deck from yesterday. Here are some more resources for learning more about MongoDB : - MongoDB Docs Tutorial - a good initial tutorial on MongoDB. - Post questions to the User Forum- 10gen engineers monitor and respond to queries on this group in addition to community members. - SF Bay Area Meetup and Office Hours- you are welcome and encouraged to attend the office hours and bring your questions to it. Please visit the page to sign up. - Register for the upcoming Building your first MongoDB applicationwebinar. Cheers, Sridhar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josh at agliodbs.com Thu Jun 30 09:36:46 2011 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Joshua Berkus) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:36:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [sf-perl] Introduction to MongoDB presentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33faf5ad-6595-4477-af76-9c26d23e266d@mail-1.01.com> Sridhar, I was sick earlier this week so I didn't get to attend and ask some questions I wanted to ask. When you get a chance, can you post answers to a few of these? 1. Are there plans to have BSON support decimal values? Last I checked (~~ 6mo), it didn't. 2. With a redundant sharded database, what happens if the cluster goes down without enough acks for an existing write? That is, one replica has ack'ed the write but not others? I guess I'm looking in general for what happens when the cluster goes down and comes back up with writes in flight ... this is a classic set of issues for clustered databases in general. 3. How do you back up a clustered Mongo database? 4. Have you considered a change of name for the database? ;-) --Josh Berkus