From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Apr 6 16:50:06 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:50:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl and Python and Ruby Message-ID: Come to SF.pm at Naan 'n Curry on Tuesday April 26th and talk about Perl and Python and Ruby. Bring your iPad or laptop if you want to share code demonstrations in any of those languages. This is an open format social meeting with no structure other than a topic and a date and time. RSVP at Meetup - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/16221744/ From gatorreina at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 08:18:39 2011 From: gatorreina at gmail.com (Richard Reina) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:18:39 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] Mime::Lite question Message-ID: I am trying to send an email with an image in the signature but when I do the image does not show up. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? # create a new MIME Lite based email my $msg = MIME::Lite->new ( Subject => "HTML email test", >From => 'richard at rushlogistics.com', To => $email, Type => 'text/html', Data => 'Image should be
here. Please visit our site online
' ); -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From miller.hall at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 09:31:49 2011 From: miller.hall at gmail.com (Miller Hall) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 09:31:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Mime::Lite question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The MIME::Lite documentation has an example for specifically that: http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/MIME-Lite-3.027/lib/MIME/Lite.pm#Send_an_HTML_document..._with_images_included! Haven't ever tried it though. If it doesn't work, then including images that are referenced as http:// is the other way to do that. - Miller 2011/4/8 Richard Reina : > I am trying to send an email with an image in the signature but when I do > the image does not show up.? Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? > > # create a new MIME Lite based email > my $msg = MIME::Lite->new > ( > Subject => "HTML email test", > From??? => 'richard at rushlogistics.com', > To????? => $email, > Type??? => 'text/html', > Data??? => 'Image should be
> here. > Please visit our site online
' > ); > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From gatorreina at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 09:41:32 2011 From: gatorreina at gmail.com (Richard Reina) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 11:41:32 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] Mime::Lite question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That example worked like a charm. Sorry I missed it. Thanks very much. 2011/4/8 Miller Hall > The MIME::Lite documentation has an example for specifically that: > > > http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/MIME-Lite-3.027/lib/MIME/Lite.pm#Send_an_HTML_document..._with_images_included > ! > > Haven't ever tried it though. If it doesn't work, then including > images that are referenced as http:// is the other way to do that. > > - Miller > > 2011/4/8 Richard Reina : > > I am trying to send an email with an image in the signature but when I do > > the image does not show up. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? > > > > # create a new MIME Lite based email > > my $msg = MIME::Lite->new > > ( > > Subject => "HTML email test", > > From => 'richard at rushlogistics.com', > > To => $email, > > Type => 'text/html', > > Data => 'Image should be
> > here. > > Please visit our site online
' > > ); > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From extasia at extasia.org Fri Apr 8 17:44:45 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:44:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] writing a csv file: how do i embed a newline in a cell? Message-ID: greetings, i'm writing a program that will produce a csv file so that folks can import the output into an ms excel spreadsheet. i want to be able to write newlines that show up inside individual cells. i created a new spreadsheet with a single cell, with newlines inserted inside the cell using alt-enter, so that it looked like the following, and saved it as a csv file. a b c d using cygwin, i see: $ cat junk.csv "a b c d" $ od -c junk.csv 0000000 " a \n b \n c \n d " \r \n 0000013 oh, ok, i need to quote the cell and use newlines. great. but when i import that back into excel, specifying delimited text and accepting the tab character as delimiter, i get four cells one in the same column, the last cell containing the trailing double quote: a b c d" wtf? i also tried using perl to create the file with only newlines, newlines and carriage returns, and only carriage returns, double quoting what should be in a single cell. nothing i tried resulted in a newline inside a cell. any ideas? the data will all be simple text with the exception that i'd like to insert newlines inside of cells. thanks, david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From hartzell at alerce.com Fri Apr 8 17:52:07 2011 From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:52:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] writing a csv file: how do i embed a newline in a cell? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19871.44471.343959.239242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> David Alban writes: > greetings, > > i'm writing a program that will produce a csv file so that folks can > import the output into an ms excel spreadsheet. [...] If you really want a CSV file, then I'd try to let someone else do the work and use Text::CSV_XS. Pay attention to the pod about embedded newlines and quoting and it should work (though I admit I haven't tried it). Alternatively, use Spreadsheet::WriteExcel or the newer Excel::Writer::XLSX and generate an excel file directly. g. From miller.hall at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 17:59:45 2011 From: miller.hall at gmail.com (Miller Hall) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:59:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] writing a csv file: how do i embed a newline in a cell? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You have it right. Just enclose cells with new lines using double quotes. Although, you currently aren't actually creating a csv file if you are using tabs as your delimiter. To do this in perl, just use Text::CSV being sure to configure it for both binary and specifying your eol as \n. http://search.cpan.org/search?query=Text%3A%3ACSV Here's an example script: use Text::CSV; use strict; use warnings; my $csv = Text::CSV->new ( { binary => 1, eol => "\n" } ) or die "Cannot use CSV: ".Text::CSV->error_diag (); open my $fh, ">", "test.csv" or die "test.csv: $!"; my @rows = ( ['A1', 'B1', 'C1'], ['A2', "B2\nline2\nline3", 'C2'], ['A3', 'B3', 'C3'], ['A4', 'B4', 'C4'], ); $csv->print($fh, $_) for @rows; close $fh; - Miller On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 5:44 PM, David Alban wrote: > greetings, > > i'm writing a program that will produce a csv file so that folks can > import the output into an ms excel spreadsheet. ?i want to be able to > write newlines that show up inside individual cells. ?i created a new > spreadsheet with a single cell, with newlines inserted inside the cell > using alt-enter, so that it looked like the following, and saved it as > a csv file. > > a > b > c > d > > using cygwin, i see: > > $ cat junk.csv > "a > b > c > d" > > $ od -c junk.csv > 0000000 ? " ? a ?\n ? b ?\n ? c ?\n ? d ? " ?\r ?\n > 0000013 > > oh, ok, i need to quote the cell and use newlines. ?great. ?but when i > import that back into excel, specifying delimited text and accepting > the tab character as delimiter, i get four cells one in the same > column, the last cell containing the trailing double quote: > > a > b > c > d" > > wtf? > > i also tried using perl to create the file with only newlines, > newlines and carriage returns, and only carriage returns, double > quoting what should be in a single cell. ?nothing i ?tried resulted in > a newline inside a cell. ?any ideas? ?the data will all be simple text > with the exception that i'd like to insert newlines inside of cells. > > thanks, > david > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Sun Apr 10 06:15:30 2011 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 14:15:30 +0100 Subject: [sf-perl] writing a csv file: how do i embed a newline in a cell? In-Reply-To: <19871.44471.343959.239242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <19871.44471.343959.239242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: A heartfelt plea from the trenches... Please, please do not write or use anything that produces CSV output! There is no unicode standard around it and you WILL run into accented character and interop issues with it. Yes, English has accented characters(!) Also, as you've seen programs tend to be dumb about interpreting CSV. XLS gets UTF-8 right and is the best solution here. Paul On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 01:52, George Hartzell wrote: > Alternatively, use Spreadsheet::WriteExcel or the newer > Excel::Writer::XLSX and generate an excel file directly. From rdm at cfcl.com Sun Apr 10 10:59:26 2011 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:59:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] writing a csv file: ... In-Reply-To: References: <19871.44471.343959.239242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: At 2:15 PM +0100 4/10/11, Paul Makepeace wrote: > A heartfelt plea from the trenches... > > Please, please do not write or use anything that produces > CSV output! There is no unicode standard around it and you > WILL run into accented character and interop issues with it. > Yes, English has accented characters(!) Also, as you've seen > programs tend to be dumb about interpreting CSV. > > XLS gets UTF-8 right and is the best solution here. I've been using CSV for a number of uses in my current project. My original plan had been to use YAML, but my clients are more comfortable with spreadsheets, so I gave that a try. I've had to define some conventions to emulate data structures (http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog/archives/001729.html), but the approach has been largely successful. I haven't had any serious character-related problems, but I have run into a few annoyances. So, I thought it might be worthwhile to follow up on this suggestion. I looked up XLS in Wikipedia. The "XML Spreadsheet" example on this page immediately demonstrates one (expected) problem: the example is about 10x the size of the equivalent CSV. However, in some situations, this may be acceptable, so I copied the text into a file (t1.xsl) and tried to open it with Numbers. The result was amusing, but not particularly useful. So, I think I'll stick with CSV for the duration... -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Software system design, development, and documentation From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Sun Apr 10 13:33:48 2011 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 13:33:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] writing a csv file: how do i embed a newline in a cell? In-Reply-To: <19871.44471.343959.239242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <19871.44471.343959.239242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: George Hartzell wrote: > David Alban writes: > > greetings, > > > > i'm writing a program that will produce a csv file so that folks can > > import the output into an ms excel spreadsheet. [...] > > If you really want a CSV file, then I'd try to let someone else do the > work and use Text::CSV_XS. Pay attention to the pod about embedded > newlines and quoting and it should work (though I admit I haven't > tried it). Yes, if you're working with csv files and perl, you really should be using Text::CSV_XS (or DBD::CSV, which uses it internally). Trying to hack CSV with home grown code is usually a mistake. If the "binary" option is not the default yet, don't forget to turn it on: that should allow you to put newlines inside a string. It at least used to be necessary to use "binary" to get it to deal with the full range of latin-1 correctly. Looks like I called that right: http://search.cpan.org/~hmbrand/Text-CSV_XS-0.81/CSV_XS.pm#Embedded_newlines Paul Makepeace has a point about the general nastiness of csv format. It's a "standard" without a standard, it *looks* simple but has a lot of funny edge cases to it, and there's no guarantee that a csv file that's read correctly by one app will be read correctly by another. From eruby at knowledgematters.net Sun Apr 10 16:20:43 2011 From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 16:20:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] writing a csv file: ... In-Reply-To: References: <19871.44471.343959.239242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Rich Morin wrote: > I looked up XLS in Wikipedia. ?The "XML Spreadsheet" example on > this page immediately demonstrates one (expected) problem: the > example is about 10x the size of the equivalent CSV. One of my projects pulls in raw data from several hundred different sources, some of which are XLS and CSV. If you're pulling data in, as well as spitting it out, the switch from CSV to XLS is well worth it just because you can specify the format of XLS data. e.g. When a customer uses Excel to modify an XLS file containing a text cell with '1-1', you get '1-1' back. With a CSV, you're more likely to get 'Jan-1' back as Excel tries to "smart format" the CSV file. Likewise, if the cell really is a date, an Excel date format will keep a customer from entering something like "Feb. 30, 2011", and you'll get data that ParseDate can (usually) handle. -- Earl Ruby http://earlruby.org/ From greg at blekko.com Mon Apr 11 10:57:56 2011 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 10:57:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] SV Code Camp 2011 Message-ID: <20110411175756.GD31729@bx9.net> Signups to teach at the Silicon Valley Code Camp are open. Someone commented a while ago that there were no perl talks in 2010. Here's your chance to make it right. October 8-9. http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/ To submit a session, first register, then a "submit a session" link will appear on the right of this page: http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/Sessions.aspx -- greg From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Wed Apr 13 12:31:23 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:31:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] HighWire Press is hiring Message-ID: Come work with a great group of people with thousands of custom Perl modules in active use and development! We don't run the latest and greatest Perl (5.8, CGI.pm, non-DBI database access -- we plan to upgrade, we really do) but that means that if you don't know much about Catalyst or Moose, that's fine with us. We're located in Palo Alto, but nearly everyone works from home a day or two a week. Dogs are allowed to come to work and it's a friendly, supportive environment for coders. http://highwire.stanford.edu/about/ http://recruit.trovix.com/jobhostmaster/jobhost/ViewJobPostDetails.do?title=HIGHWIRE+EXPRESS+SOFTWARE+DEVELOPER&jobPostId=uya35pgcovf5licmnriq52kmoa&accountId=de85ad313f8598db1c42b567a3df24a00497ba22&button=&action=viewDetails&tid=0207-s63pdjsyvzg4jnq3fqr6lr76zg (Ugly job URL, but that's Stanford HR for you. We don't deal with them much.) We are also hiring for two or three other positions that involve some Perl programming, but this one is the most Perl-oriented. The others will involve more HTML/CSS/XSLT than Perl. If anyone is interested in those jobs, let me know and I can send you the link. We're also hiring a project manager, but that's a technical-but-non-coding job, which I figured would be of less interest to this list. If you're interested, let me know so I can fast-track your application. I'm also happy to answer any questions you might have about working here. I've been here for nearly 13 years now and plan to stay quite a bit longer. -- Mike Friedman PS - Wow, we actually have 13 positions open right now. Here's all of them: https://recruit.trovix.com/jobhostmaster/jobhost/ListJobPosts.do?action=search&tid=0207-2p42ormkwjem3i7snzt3kc6ath&searchSectionActive=false&accountId=de85ad313f8598db1c42b567a3df24a00497ba22&searchKeywords=HighWire ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Apr 13 19:31:51 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:31:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? Message-ID: Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is more than one way to do it. I use iTerm, emacs with the Perlnow extension, and vim with the perl-support plugin. Have tried Komodo a few times but it never sticks. From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Thu Apr 14 03:57:27 2011 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 11:57:27 +0100 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There was a huge thread on this on Catalyst recently. Eclipse, Komodo paid, Padre, and the usual suspects (vim, emacs, etc) http://lists.scsys.co.uk/pipermail/catalyst/2011-March/026691.html On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 03:31, Fred Moyer wrote: > Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is > more than one way to do it. > > I use iTerm, emacs with the Perlnow extension, and vim with the > perl-support plugin. ?Have tried Komodo a few times but it never > sticks. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From quinn at fairpath.com Thu Apr 14 13:17:40 2011 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:17:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is > more than one way to do it. Now that I've gone over to the dark side of the Unix, I'm very fond of Aquamacs. It's a Cocoa-native port of Emacs. I'm always surprised that relatively few Mac emacs users seem to know about it. It has various nice touches, but my favorites are the native font support, the native keyboard shortcut support (e.g. Cmd-V does the same thing as C-y), and the ability to set the option key as either Meta or the usual Mac "special characters" key, according to preference. I do the latter and use Esc for Meta. -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web design and development http://quinnweaver.com/ 510-520-5217 From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Thu Apr 14 13:46:58 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:46:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17C18548-E28D-4F44-8138-5DBB055D3DF6@highwire.stanford.edu> On Mac OS X: TextMate, which has great Perl support, plus the built-in Terminal.app. I use macports to install things like perl itself and cpanminus for modules. On Solaris and Linux non-GUI servers: vim all the way. The sysadmins at my office install perl itself, so I don't know how they do it. I think they compiled it from scratch. However, the number one tool in my Perl IDE is... the Perl Debugger! Man, that's good stuff. I had to use jdb for Java debugging recently and 'perl -d' is so much better. Since I work from the commandline most of the time, having an IDE with a debugging GUI is pretty worthless to me, but a good commandline debugger is priceless. -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Apr 13, 2011, at 7:31 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is > more than one way to do it. > > I use iTerm, emacs with the Perlnow extension, and vim with the > perl-support plugin. Have tried Komodo a few times but it never > sticks. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From josh at agliodbs.com Thu Apr 14 14:51:50 2011 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:51:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DA76C76.1030507@agliodbs.com> Kate, emacs and Komodo. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com From extasia at extasia.org Thu Apr 14 14:58:21 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:58:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: bash vim, minus syntax highlighting (which drives me crazy) perl -d (i HEART the debugger--except when fork()ing) On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is > more than one way to do it. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Thu Apr 14 15:03:17 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:03:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6FF4BF7C-C6C3-4703-9FEB-F31FC600E3EF@highwire.stanford.edu> You know about $DB::fork_TTY, right? I use that all the time, with a separate window for the other part of the fork. Of course, you have to realize that the code is going to fork() before you start debugging or it'll fork in the middle and you're just hosed. -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Apr 14, 2011, at 2:58 PM, David Alban wrote: > bash > vim, minus syntax highlighting (which drives me crazy) > perl -d (i HEART the debugger--except when fork()ing) > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >> Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is >> more than one way to do it. > > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From chip at pobox.com Thu Apr 14 16:20:54 2011 From: chip at pobox.com (Chip Salzenberg) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:20:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DA78156.302@pobox.com> I decided to answer you question in the form of a song. No, cancel that. I mean a blog post. http://chip.typepad.com/weblog/2011/04/perl-development-essentials.html On 4/13/2011 7:31 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is > more than one way to do it. > > I use iTerm, emacs with the Perlnow extension, and vim with the > perl-support plugin. Have tried Komodo a few times but it never > sticks. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From extasia at extasia.org Thu Apr 14 17:39:29 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 17:39:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: <6FF4BF7C-C6C3-4703-9FEB-F31FC600E3EF@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <6FF4BF7C-C6C3-4703-9FEB-F31FC600E3EF@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: i'll certainly check it out! thanks. On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > You know about $DB::fork_TTY, right? I use that all the time, with a separate window for the other part of the fork. Of course, you have to realize that the code is going to fork() before you start debugging or it'll fork in the middle and you're just hosed. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Thu Apr 14 18:05:24 2011 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:05:24 +0100 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: <17C18548-E28D-4F44-8138-5DBB055D3DF6@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <17C18548-E28D-4F44-8138-5DBB055D3DF6@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 21:46, Michael Friedman wrote: > On Mac OS X: TextMate if you go anywhere near NFS or Samba or large projects, http://ciaranwal.sh/remate/ P From mehryar at mehryar.com Thu Apr 14 18:35:10 2011 From: mehryar at mehryar.com (mehryar) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: emacs especially when you can step through an *Apache* mod_perl process. Clicking in your browser AND simultaneously stepping through your code in your trusty IDE - is magical! On Wed, 13 Apr 2011, Fred Moyer wrote: > Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is > more than one way to do it. > > I use iTerm, emacs with the Perlnow extension, and vim with the > perl-support plugin. Have tried Komodo a few times but it never > sticks. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Fri Apr 15 00:10:46 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:10:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: <17C18548-E28D-4F44-8138-5DBB055D3DF6@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <6A2508C3-CED9-4A46-82EB-DA793A1C2731@highwire.stanford.edu> Oh, that does look good. I currently use remote CVS and SVN, so I just copy all the code to my local machine to work on it, but that does mean that I'm constantly scp'ing it to the server to run the tests. I'd thought about MacFusion, to mount an ssh disk, but now I'm going to look into mounting our NFS server instead. Thanks! -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | On Apr 14, 2011, at 6:05 PM, Paul Makepeace wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 21:46, Michael Friedman > wrote: >> On Mac OS X: TextMate > > if you go anywhere near NFS or Samba or large projects, > > http://ciaranwal.sh/remate/ > > P From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Apr 15 00:17:17 2011 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:17:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: <6A2508C3-CED9-4A46-82EB-DA793A1C2731@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <17C18548-E28D-4F44-8138-5DBB055D3DF6@highwire.stanford.edu> <6A2508C3-CED9-4A46-82EB-DA793A1C2731@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Michael Friedman wrote: > Oh, that does look good. > > I currently use remote CVS and SVN, so I just copy all the code to my local machine to work on it, but that does mean that I'm constantly scp'ing it to the server to run the tests. I'd thought about MacFusion, to mount an ssh disk, but now I'm going to look into ?mounting our NFS server instead. Emacs has a solution to this problem called TRAMP, whereby you can transparently edit files on remote servers as if they were on your local disk. It works over ssh, scp, ftp, etc? it even does multi-hop ssh. It's a bit tricky to configure, but once you get it working it can be a lifesaver. -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web design and development http://quinnweaver.com/ 510-520-5217 From not.com at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 11:23:22 2011 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:23:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: <17C18548-E28D-4F44-8138-5DBB055D3DF6@highwire.stanford.edu> <6A2508C3-CED9-4A46-82EB-DA793A1C2731@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: > Emacs has a solution to this problem called TRAMP, whereby you can > transparently edit files on remote servers as if they were on your > local disk. It works over ssh, scp, ftp, etc? it even does multi-hop > ssh. It's a bit tricky to configure, but once you get it working it > can be a lifesaver. The other nice things about tramp (which no doubt Quinn failed to mention because it is so easy to take for granted) is that when you use emacs' built-in grep and compile commands, it knows to run them on the remote machine. So you get the benefits of remote editing without having to open up a terminal window for common tasks. It's seamless when using ssh/scp. (those features won't work if you don't have a shell on the remote host) Plus tramp is included with standard Emacs distribution. From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Apr 15 14:33:40 2011 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:33:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: <17C18548-E28D-4F44-8138-5DBB055D3DF6@highwire.stanford.edu> <6A2508C3-CED9-4A46-82EB-DA793A1C2731@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:23 AM, yary wrote: >> Emacs has a solution to this problem called TRAMP, whereby you can >> transparently edit files on remote servers as if they were on your >> local disk. It works over ssh, scp, ftp, etc? it even does multi-hop >> ssh. It's a bit tricky to configure, but once you get it working it >> can be a lifesaver. > > The other nice things about tramp (which no doubt Quinn failed to > mention because it is so easy to take for granted) is that when you > use emacs' built-in grep and compile commands, it knows to run them on > the remote machine. Actually, I didn't know that. I never use either. I did know it works with M-x shell, but I forgot to mention that. I just did a search, and it turns out it also works with M-x perldb (the Emacs interface to the Perl debugger, much nicer than the command-line one IMO). Good stuff. -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web design and development http://quinnweaver.com/ 510-520-5217 From russell at alltrails.com Fri Apr 15 16:30:16 2011 From: russell at alltrails.com (Russell Cook) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 16:30:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] AllTrails - #1 Outdoor App on iPhone - Lead Developer Message-ID: I just stumbled on the SF.pm meetup group and was so excited to find it! My name is Russell Cook and I'm the founder of AllTrails.com which I'm happy to say is powered by Perl. I've been developing in Perl for more than 8 years and Perl helped me built/sell my last company, beRecruited.com. Perl was an easy choice when we launched AllTrails and now that our site and traffic is taking off we're looking to expand the team. The ideal candidate would have a passion for the outdoors, love coding in Perl, be super scrappy, understand viral/social/gaming levers, and have previous experience building/scaling a consumer web platform. Added bonuses would be front-end design aptitude and/or experience with mobile development. AllTrails is backed by some of the biggest names in Silicon Valley and we're building a world class team that is passionate about developing innovative products to help users rediscover the outdoors. If you love the outdoors and coding in Perl (or know someone who does), drop me an email and I can follow up with more information about the company and position. Referrals greatly appreciated. Thanks and looking forward to meeting many of you at the next SF.pm meetup! Russell russell at alltrails.com http://alltrails.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From szabgab at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 21:50:49 2011 From: szabgab at gmail.com (Gabor Szabo) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 07:50:49 +0300 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is > more than one way to do it. > > I use iTerm, emacs with the Perlnow extension, and vim with the > perl-support plugin. Have tried Komodo a few times but it never > sticks. > See the poll result from October 2009: http://perlide.org/poll200910/ and the TPF survey from 2010: http://survey.perlfoundation.org/Data-PerlSurvey-2010/R/11_editor_info/index.html regards Gabor -- Gabor Szabo http://szabgab.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Fri Apr 15 22:23:05 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 22:23:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92438CFD-6F5E-49B3-87F9-98962D7E8A22@highwire.stanford.edu> Thanks for the links to the polls, Gabor! It's interesting to me that, except for UltraEdit (who might be accused of stuffing the ballot box in 2009), the percentages and order are about the same on both polls, a year apart. Does that show that we're all set in our ways and don't change editors very often or does it show that there are only a few really good editors out there and all the "new guys" are just wandering around the edges? My guess would be some of both: you find an editor you like and then you spend the next 3 months customizing it and learning it well so you can be highly productive. That is a serious incentive to not switch unless the new editor is much much better. It'd be like having to learn how to drive all over again if you bought a Ford instead of a Toyota -- not many people would switch brands. Which brings me to a further question for the group: how much have you customized your editor? I can imagine someone using plain vanilla Notepad can't do much with it, but I've seen people's emacs and vim configurations: no two are alike. Sitting down at someone else's terminal is a disaster, because none of your key shortcuts work. Personally, I use TextMate because I can write bundles for it really easily. I have several custom bundles, some modifications to the standard bundles, and even a new language grammar for SQL. (The standard one left out a ton of keywords.) I'd be quite a bit less effective were I to grab an off-the-shelf copy of TextMate and try to use it. -- Mike F ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:50 PM, Gabor Szabo wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > >> Some people say there are none, but I think that is because there is >> more than one way to do it. >> >> I use iTerm, emacs with the Perlnow extension, and vim with the >> perl-support plugin. Have tried Komodo a few times but it never >> sticks. >> > > > See the poll result from October 2009: http://perlide.org/poll200910/ > and the TPF survey from 2010: > http://survey.perlfoundation.org/Data-PerlSurvey-2010/R/11_editor_info/index.html > > > regards > Gabor > > -- > Gabor Szabo > http://szabgab.com/ > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From quinn at fairpath.com Sat Apr 16 10:21:15 2011 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 10:21:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] AllTrails - #1 Outdoor App on iPhone - Lead Developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2011/4/15 Russell Cook : > I just stumbled on the SF.pm meetup group and was so excited to find it! > My name is Russell Cook and I'm the founder of AllTrails.com which I'm happy > to say is powered by Perl. Hi, Russell, Thanks for writing, and thanks for following the posting etiquette ("[job]" starting the Subject header). Your post touches on a question of some interest to me: how many people are still starting startups on Perl? Ruby and, increasingly, Python seem to be the choice of new outfits. There's always the question of whether you need access to a large market of (possibly less experienced) programmers, or whether you should just use the language you know best and assume you'll be able to get enough good people. Of course, if enough people come out of this reasoning discouraged from starting Perl startups, that leaves more programmers for oneself. :) Clearly you've thought through this question. Do you have any thoughts or experiences you'd be comfortable sharing? -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web design and development http://quinnweaver.com/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at fairpath.com Sat Apr 16 13:37:31 2011 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:37:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2011/4/15 Gabor Szabo : > [?] > See the poll result from October 2009:?? http://perlide.org/poll200910/ > and the TPF survey from 2010: > http://survey.perlfoundation.org/Data-PerlSurvey-2010/R/11_editor_info/index.html Good work on the poll. I was surprised that vi (and variants) so greatly outranked emacs (and variants). Perhaps that's because you allowed three choices per user? I use vi in addition to emacs, but only on client boxes where emacs is not installed. I was also surprised at the long tail of editors after vi and emacs, and just how much of the pie they collectively accounted for. Interesting stuff. -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web design and development http://quinnweaver.com/ 510-520-5217 From greg at blekko.com Sat Apr 16 14:32:33 2011 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 14:32:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] AllTrails - #1 Outdoor App on iPhone - Lead Developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110416213233.GB12824@bx9.net> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 10:21:15AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > Your post touches on a question of some interest to me: how many > people are still starting startups on Perl? This is a difficult to answer question, but last time it came up on Quora, these startups were listed: blekko duck duck go Nabbr Selectable Media socialflow.com goba.mobi And that's just the startups who read Quora... -- greg From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Sat Apr 16 16:58:52 2011 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 00:58:52 +0100 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] AllTrails - #1 Outdoor App on iPhone - Lead Developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 18:21, Quinn Weaver wrote: > Ruby and, increasingly, > Python seem to be the choice of new outfits. Of the two main ones I'm working on/at, artfinder.com is python + django + postgresql + jquery investor-dynamics.com is perl + catalyst + mysql + jquery (Django's ORM is a lot more straightforward to me than DBIC. Perl's syntax can really get in the way sometimes, IMO. Catalyst OTOH I think can pretty do much do more than any other framework.) P From ddascalescu at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 16:36:43 2011 From: ddascalescu at gmail.com (Dan Dascalescu) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 16:36:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The reasons I prefer a *real* IDE vs.a text editor + perl -d include: * live syntax highlight and underlining of errors as I type them * ability to step through the code in the editor window with such syntax highlight. Can you do that in vi(m) or emacs? http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DebuggingWithEmacs suggests you can't. * ability to easily switch among multiple code editor tabs with different files that make up the project * when debugging, if I figure out the cause of the issue is somewhere else in the code (e.g. in the caller sub), I can scroll the code window there and make the change. In perl -d, I only have a read-only, non-syntax-highlighted peephole vision of a few lines around the currently executing one. * display of watched variables as I step through the code I understand that people stick with ancient editors due to the enormous investment in learning and configuring them. I also do that - I've been using the same two-pane file manager for over 15 years. But let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior investment. Are there objective reasons why they should *not* use a *real* IDE (Padre, Eclipse+EPIC, Komodo IDE)? Dan -- http://wiki.dandascalescu.com/.list/Perl On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 13:37, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > 2011/4/15 Gabor Szabo : > > > [?] > > > See the poll result from October 2009:?? http://perlide.org/poll200910/ > > and the TPF survey from 2010: > > http://survey.perlfoundation.org/Data-PerlSurvey-2010/R/11_editor_info/index.html From extasia at extasia.org Sun Apr 17 16:55:35 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 16:55:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i don't write to refute your points, but because you jogged my memory. i'd like simply to correct an egregious omission on my part earlier... in addition to bash, vim, and perl -d... gnu screen, which i find to be invaluable in all my unix dealings. On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Dan Dascalescu wrote: > The reasons I prefer a *real* IDE vs.a text editor + perl -d include: -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From greg at blekko.com Sun Apr 17 17:10:45 2011 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 17:10:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110418001045.GA14466@bx9.net> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 04:36:43PM -0700, Dan Dascalescu wrote: > I understand that people stick with ancient editors due to the > enormous investment in learning and configuring them. I also do that - > I've been using the same two-pane file manager for over 15 years. > > But let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior investment. Are > there objective reasons why they should *not* use a *real* IDE (Padre, > Eclipse+EPIC, Komodo IDE)? Wow. It boggles the mind that you don't think there are any people who find that they're more productive without an IDE! You might have noticed that many Unix/Linux programmers prefer the shell prompt to a file manager. That's why IDE/no-IDE and command-line/GUI are considered religious issues. -- greg From ddascalescu at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 17:50:39 2011 From: ddascalescu at gmail.com (Dan Dascalescu) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 17:50:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: <20110418001045.GA14466@bx9.net> References: <20110418001045.GA14466@bx9.net> Message-ID: >> But let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior investment. Are >> there objective reasons why they should *not* use a *real* IDE (Padre, >> Eclipse+EPIC, Komodo IDE)? > > Wow. It boggles the mind that you don't think there are any people who > find that they're more productive without an IDE! You might have > noticed that many Unix/Linux programmers prefer the shell prompt to a > file manager. That's why IDE/no-IDE and command-line/GUI are > considered religious issues. Of course I understand that. I've also shown a bunch of command line addicts at work how I was more productive on a variety of task than them, using my trusty file manager. That's not the point. I also use the command line a lot for another variety of tasks that my trusty file manager is less suite for. I specified "let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior investment", and - my mistake - I should have added, "someone without such heavy prior investment in command-line that they're simply reluctant to use an IDE". But indeed, this is a religious issue, and putting oneself with heavy prior investment in the shoes of someone without prior investment, may be hard. -- Dan From biztos at mac.com Mon Apr 18 08:56:04 2011 From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 17:56:04 +0200 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: <20110418001045.GA14466@bx9.net> Message-ID: <44E20951-4FCF-4E56-8035-899EA4263062@mac.com> I'm one of those hardcore "editor is my IDE" types, TextMate where available and vim where not. In Perl anyway. Now I'm learning Objective C for iOS and I'm suddenly a huge fan of XCode (version 4 anyway), which is about as I a DE as they come. So I would say that a beginner could gain a lot from using an IDE, and for experienced coders I respect their choice whatever it is. -- frosty On Apr 18, 2011, at 2:50 AM, Dan Dascalescu wrote: >>> But let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior investment. Are >>> there objective reasons why they should *not* use a *real* IDE (Padre, >>> Eclipse+EPIC, Komodo IDE)? >> >> Wow. It boggles the mind that you don't think there are any people who >> find that they're more productive without an IDE! You might have >> noticed that many Unix/Linux programmers prefer the shell prompt to a >> file manager. That's why IDE/no-IDE and command-line/GUI are >> considered religious issues. > > Of course I understand that. I've also shown a bunch of command line > addicts at work how I was more productive on a variety of task than > them, using my trusty file manager. That's not the point. I also use > the command line a lot for another variety of tasks that my trusty > file manager is less suite for. > > I specified "let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior > investment", and - my mistake - I should have added, "someone without > such heavy prior investment in command-line that they're simply > reluctant to use an IDE". > > But indeed, this is a religious issue, and putting oneself with heavy > prior investment in the shoes of someone without prior investment, may > be hard. > > -- > Dan > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From sphink at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 10:19:58 2011 From: sphink at gmail.com (Steve Fink) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:19:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to clarify what is available with emacs + perldb: On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Dan Dascalescu wrote: > The reasons I prefer a *real* IDE vs.a text editor + perl -d include: > > * live syntax highlight and underlining of errors as I type them Live syntax highlighting works. Only a few errors are caught immediately (mismatched parens, unclosed regexes, etc. -- simply syntactic errors that are relevant to the highlighter.) > * ability to step through the code in the editor window with such > syntax highlight. Can you do that in vi(m) or emacs? > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DebuggingWithEmacs suggests you can't. No, I definitely have that capability with perldb in emacs. What on that page suggests otherwise? > * ability to easily switch among multiple code editor tabs with > different files that make up the project So you like that the UI presentation is tabs? Because obviously emacs and most other editors can have multiple files loaded at once. But in emacs, you switch between them with command keys or dropdown menus -- is that the difference you're pointing out? > * when debugging, if I figure out the cause of the issue is somewhere > else in the code (e.g. in the caller sub), I can scroll the code > window there and make the change. In perl -d, I only have a read-only, > non-syntax-highlighted peephole vision of a few lines around the > currently executing one. Are you running perl -d in a shell inside emacs or something? perldb certainly shows you the original (editable) source file, with syntax highlighting. > * display of watched variables as I step through the code I think of this, and things like click-to-set-breakpoint and hover-to-see-value, as the bread and butter of IDEs. Along with things like a live stack backtrace display. gdb within emacs can actually do most of this, though to use it I think you really have to let it control the arrangement of your buffer windows (panes?). There's some magic command that I never use that splits your screen up into a source display, a debugger prompt, a variable watch pane, a stack display, and I think something else. (Or something like that; I never use it because having > 2 panes option makes it much harder to use the keyboard to jump between buffers. If you're ok with using a mouse and dedicating lots of screen space, maybe it's usable.) I don't know if the same is available for perldb. I doubt it. > I understand that people stick with ancient editors due to the > enormous investment in learning and configuring them. I also do that - > I've been using the same two-pane file manager for over 15 years. > > But let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior investment. Are > there objective reasons why they should *not* use a *real* IDE (Padre, > Eclipse+EPIC, Komodo IDE)? The two main reasons that immediately spring to mind are (1) emacs + perldb are usable in text mode and across remote links in pretty much the same way as they are on a local graphical display; and (2) emacs + perldb (and vim etc.) are preinstalled everywhere. At least for the types of things I do, those two reasons would mean that I'd have to get comfortable with two completely different environments (an IDE + emacs/perldb), and I haven't found anything compelling enough in any IDE to make it worth it. Which is not to say I'm anti-IDE. I started out with one, and hated being forced to learn the text-only command-line way of doing things. But now I'm very comfortable there. I still think that IDEs have the opportunity to add in killer functionality much more easily and naturally than editor-based tools -- and yet, nobody has really come up with anything that is must-have. Well, with the exception of SVG and CSS inspectors/debuggers, that is -- inherently graphical tasks definitely make graphical tools worth using. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Apr 18 20:44:34 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:44:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Steve Fink wrote: > Just to clarify what is available with emacs + perldb: > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Dan Dascalescu wrote: >> The reasons I prefer a *real* IDE vs.a text editor + perl -d include: >> >> * live syntax highlight and underlining of errors as I type them > > Live syntax highlighting works. Only a few errors are caught > immediately (mismatched parens, unclosed regexes, etc. -- simply > syntactic errors that are relevant to the highlighter.) \rs in vim with perl-support performs a compile check. ctrl-x (alt-m) h t does the same thing on my emacs setup with perlnow. So not quite live syntax checking, but allows you to code, compile check, then run, all without leaving the editor. Maybe we need to have another Perl editor / ide talk series. Anyone want to give a talk on their setup? From mnjagadeesh at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 00:48:37 2011 From: mnjagadeesh at gmail.com (Jagadeesh N. Malakannavar) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:18:37 +0530 Subject: [sf-perl] [poll] What Perl IDE do you use? In-Reply-To: <44E20951-4FCF-4E56-8035-899EA4263062@mac.com> References: <20110418001045.GA14466@bx9.net> <44E20951-4FCF-4E56-8035-899EA4263062@mac.com> Message-ID: I think beginner of any language should use emacs with ecb and flymake. This set will make things much easier to learn. flymake with perl is little dangerousness if you what code you are writing otherwise you will be having nice experience. Thanks On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Kevin Frost wrote: > I'm one of those hardcore "editor is my IDE" types, TextMate where > available and vim where not. In Perl anyway. > > Now I'm learning Objective C for iOS and I'm suddenly a huge fan of XCode > (version 4 anyway), which is about as I a DE as they come. > > So I would say that a beginner could gain a lot from using an IDE, and for > experienced coders I respect their choice whatever it is. > > > -- frosty > > On Apr 18, 2011, at 2:50 AM, Dan Dascalescu > wrote: > > >>> But let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior investment. Are > >>> there objective reasons why they should *not* use a *real* IDE (Padre, > >>> Eclipse+EPIC, Komodo IDE)? > >> > >> Wow. It boggles the mind that you don't think there are any people who > >> find that they're more productive without an IDE! You might have > >> noticed that many Unix/Linux programmers prefer the shell prompt to a > >> file manager. That's why IDE/no-IDE and command-line/GUI are > >> considered religious issues. > > > > Of course I understand that. I've also shown a bunch of command line > > addicts at work how I was more productive on a variety of task than > > them, using my trusty file manager. That's not the point. I also use > > the command line a lot for another variety of tasks that my trusty > > file manager is less suite for. > > > > I specified "let's consider someone new to Perl, without prior > > investment", and - my mistake - I should have added, "someone without > > such heavy prior investment in command-line that they're simply > > reluctant to use an IDE". > > > > But indeed, this is a religious issue, and putting oneself with heavy > > prior investment in the shoes of someone without prior investment, may > > be hard. > > > > -- > > Dan > > _______________________________________________ > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -- Thanks, Jagadeesh N.Malakannavar 9448471968 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Apr 20 08:44:00 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:44:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl and Python and Ruby at Naan 'n Curry Message-ID: Next Tuesday April 26th at 7pm, come join the discussion. http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/16221744/ From meghan at 10gen.com Wed Apr 20 09:37:20 2011 From: meghan at 10gen.com (Meghan Gill) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:37:20 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all - Please join us on May 24 for MongoSF, a full day conference dedicated to the open source database MongoDB. Last year MongoSF sold out before early bird ended so I recommend that you register now! This year we will have five tracks and a great line up of speakers, including presenters from 10gen, foursquare, Shutterfly, Demand Media, SourceForge, VMware, and more. The conference is on Tuesday, May 24 at the Bently Reserve. Early bird pricing is only $50 until May 3. Register at http://www.10gen.com/conferences/mongosf2011 Looking forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Meghan From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Apr 20 10:08:03 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:08:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [off-topic] Re: MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Meghan, While the SF.pm list is not entirely uninterested in topics that aren't Perl related, please use the appropriate subject tag for non Perl related posting. Good subject tags here would be [off-topic] or [conference]. The welcome email you received when you signed up for the SF.pm list contains this note also. The list members do appreciate this, as many are signed up for multiple mailing lists covering different topics. Thanks! - Fred On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: > Hi all - > > Please join us on May 24 for MongoSF, a full day conference dedicated > to the open source database MongoDB. Last year MongoSF sold out before > early bird ended so I recommend that you register now! This year we > will have five tracks and a great line up of speakers, including > presenters from 10gen, foursquare, Shutterfly, Demand Media, > SourceForge, VMware, and more. > > The conference is on Tuesday, May 24 at the Bently Reserve. Early bird > pricing is only $50 until May 3. > > Register at http://www.10gen.com/conferences/mongosf2011 > > Looking forward to seeing you there! > > Cheers, > Meghan > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From meghan at 10gen.com Wed Apr 20 10:25:43 2011 From: meghan at 10gen.com (Meghan Gill) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 13:25:43 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] [off-topic] Re: MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My apologies! Will be more conscientious in the future :-) On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Meghan, > > While the SF.pm list is not entirely uninterested in topics that > aren't Perl related, please use the appropriate subject tag for non > Perl related posting. ?Good subject tags here would be [off-topic] or > [conference]. ?The welcome email you received when you signed up for > the SF.pm list contains this note also. > > The list members do appreciate this, as many are signed up for > multiple mailing lists covering different topics. > > Thanks! > > - Fred > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: >> Hi all - >> >> Please join us on May 24 for MongoSF, a full day conference dedicated >> to the open source database MongoDB. Last year MongoSF sold out before >> early bird ended so I recommend that you register now! This year we >> will have five tracks and a great line up of speakers, including >> presenters from 10gen, foursquare, Shutterfly, Demand Media, >> SourceForge, VMware, and more. >> >> The conference is on Tuesday, May 24 at the Bently Reserve. Early bird >> pricing is only $50 until May 3. >> >> Register at http://www.10gen.com/conferences/mongosf2011 >> >> Looking forward to seeing you there! >> >> Cheers, >> Meghan >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >> > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Apr 20 11:00:13 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:00:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [off-topic] Re: MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No worries - we actually had a really great MongoDB presentation to SF.pm about a year ago. A lot of members seemed very interested, so perhaps this is not as off-topic as I initially thought. On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: > My apologies! Will be more conscientious in the future :-) > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >> Meghan, >> >> While the SF.pm list is not entirely uninterested in topics that >> aren't Perl related, please use the appropriate subject tag for non >> Perl related posting. ?Good subject tags here would be [off-topic] or >> [conference]. ?The welcome email you received when you signed up for >> the SF.pm list contains this note also. >> >> The list members do appreciate this, as many are signed up for >> multiple mailing lists covering different topics. >> >> Thanks! >> >> - Fred >> >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: >>> Hi all - >>> >>> Please join us on May 24 for MongoSF, a full day conference dedicated >>> to the open source database MongoDB. Last year MongoSF sold out before >>> early bird ended so I recommend that you register now! This year we >>> will have five tracks and a great line up of speakers, including >>> presenters from 10gen, foursquare, Shutterfly, Demand Media, >>> SourceForge, VMware, and more. >>> >>> The conference is on Tuesday, May 24 at the Bently Reserve. Early bird >>> pricing is only $50 until May 3. >>> >>> Register at http://www.10gen.com/conferences/mongosf2011 >>> >>> Looking forward to seeing you there! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Meghan >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >>> >> > From chip at pobox.com Wed Apr 20 11:18:10 2011 From: chip at pobox.com (Chip Salzenberg) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:18:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [off-topic] Re: MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DAF2362.600@pobox.com> Speaking of list relevance: Is there an *active* project anywhere to provide an async Perl client for MongoDB? On 4/20/2011 11:00 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > No worries - we actually had a really great MongoDB presentation to > SF.pm about a year ago. A lot of members seemed very interested, so > perhaps this is not as off-topic as I initially thought. > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: >> My apologies! Will be more conscientious in the future :-) >> >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >>> Meghan, >>> >>> While the SF.pm list is not entirely uninterested in topics that >>> aren't Perl related, please use the appropriate subject tag for non >>> Perl related posting. Good subject tags here would be [off-topic] or >>> [conference]. The welcome email you received when you signed up for >>> the SF.pm list contains this note also. >>> >>> The list members do appreciate this, as many are signed up for >>> multiple mailing lists covering different topics. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> - Fred >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: >>>> Hi all - >>>> >>>> Please join us on May 24 for MongoSF, a full day conference dedicated >>>> to the open source database MongoDB. Last year MongoSF sold out before >>>> early bird ended so I recommend that you register now! This year we >>>> will have five tracks and a great line up of speakers, including >>>> presenters from 10gen, foursquare, Shutterfly, Demand Media, >>>> SourceForge, VMware, and more. >>>> >>>> The conference is on Tuesday, May 24 at the Bently Reserve. Early bird >>>> pricing is only $50 until May 3. >>>> >>>> Register at http://www.10gen.com/conferences/mongosf2011 >>>> >>>> Looking forward to seeing you there! >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Meghan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >>>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >>>> > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Apr 20 11:53:57 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:53:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: <4DAF2362.600@pobox.com> References: <4DAF2362.600@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Chip Salzenberg wrote: > Speaking of list relevance: Is there an *active* project anywhere to > provide an async Perl client for MongoDB? This? http://search.cpan.org/~doggy/AnyMongo-0.03/lib/AnyMongo.pm From chip at pobox.com Wed Apr 20 12:09:47 2011 From: chip at pobox.com (Chip Salzenberg) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:09:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: References: <4DAF2362.600@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4DAF2F7B.1050001@pobox.com> On 4/20/2011 11:53 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Chip Salzenberg wrote: >> Speaking of list relevance: Is there an *active* project anywhere to >> provide an async Perl client for MongoDB? > This? > > http://search.cpan.org/~doggy/AnyMongo-0.03/lib/AnyMongo.pm September '10. That's why I mentioned "active". :-( From meghan at 10gen.com Wed Apr 20 13:19:52 2011 From: meghan at 10gen.com (Meghan Gill) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:19:52 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] [off-topic] Re: MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool, I'm not sure how often your group meets but if you want I can arrange to have someone from 10gen (the MongoDB company) give a presentation on MongoDB. Just let me know if that is of interest and I can help coordinate. Thanks Meghan On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > No worries - we actually had a really great MongoDB presentation to > SF.pm about a year ago. ?A lot of members seemed very interested, so > perhaps this is not as off-topic as I initially thought. > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: >> My apologies! Will be more conscientious in the future :-) >> >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >>> Meghan, >>> >>> While the SF.pm list is not entirely uninterested in topics that >>> aren't Perl related, please use the appropriate subject tag for non >>> Perl related posting. ?Good subject tags here would be [off-topic] or >>> [conference]. ?The welcome email you received when you signed up for >>> the SF.pm list contains this note also. >>> >>> The list members do appreciate this, as many are signed up for >>> multiple mailing lists covering different topics. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> - Fred >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Meghan Gill wrote: >>>> Hi all - >>>> >>>> Please join us on May 24 for MongoSF, a full day conference dedicated >>>> to the open source database MongoDB. Last year MongoSF sold out before >>>> early bird ended so I recommend that you register now! This year we >>>> will have five tracks and a great line up of speakers, including >>>> presenters from 10gen, foursquare, Shutterfly, Demand Media, >>>> SourceForge, VMware, and more. >>>> >>>> The conference is on Tuesday, May 24 at the Bently Reserve. Early bird >>>> pricing is only $50 until May 3. >>>> >>>> Register at http://www.10gen.com/conferences/mongosf2011 >>>> >>>> Looking forward to seeing you there! >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Meghan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >>>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >>>> >>> >> > From jkeen at verizon.net Wed Apr 20 15:48:22 2011 From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:48:22 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] MongoSF is on May 24 In-Reply-To: <4DAF2F7B.1050001@pobox.com> References: <4DAF2362.600@pobox.com> <4DAF2F7B.1050001@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Apr 20, 2011, at 3:09 PM, Chip Salzenberg wrote: > On 4/20/2011 11:53 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Chip Salzenberg >> wrote: >>> Speaking of list relevance: Is there an *active* project anywhere to >>> provide an async Perl client for MongoDB? >> This? >> >> http://search.cpan.org/~doggy/AnyMongo-0.03/lib/AnyMongo.pm > > September '10. That's why I mentioned "active". :-( Hey! That's more recent than the last changes to most of *my* CPAN modules -- or many other people's. FWIW: Perl Seminar NY had a presentation by the 10gen person who serves as Perl maintainer for MongoDB in, IIRC, January 2010 -- and then she did a presentation at YAPC::NA::2010 in Columbus last June. So I say go ahead and have a presentation at sf.pm. Jim Keenan From matt at lanier.org Thu Apr 21 09:57:53 2011 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 09:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] [job] oracle developer / dba at palantir (fwd) Message-ID: folks- palantir is hiring aggressively. we're looking for someone who can fill the following role. if that is you, or someone you know, please send them my way. Here is what we're looking for: a) 25% working on the product, tuning queries, doing tests, helping us use Oracle better b) 25% working with customers (remotely) on emergency oracle issues they are seeing c) 25% maintaining our oracle installers/patchsets that we ship d) 25% design/architecture review for new projects 'tis a fun place to work. m@ -- Matthew D. P. K. Lanier From philiph at pobox.com Mon Apr 25 11:21:45 2011 From: philiph at pobox.com (Philip J. Hollenback) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:21:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] serverfault: what language for starting linux? Message-ID: <1303755705.1437.1444931057@webmail.messagingengine.com> I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on this Server Fault question: http://serverfault.com/questions/263133/what-language-for-starting-on-linux/ The answer I posted was perl of course but I bet some of you can provide even better reasons than I was able to. Thanks, P. -- Philip J. Hollenback philiph at pobox.com www.hollenback.net From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Apr 25 14:56:39 2011 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:56:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] serverfault: what language for starting linux? In-Reply-To: <1303755705.1437.1444931057@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1303755705.1437.1444931057@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: How does one add a comment under your answer? I don't see any way to do it, myself. On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Philip J. Hollenback wrote: > I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on this Server Fault question: > > http://serverfault.com/questions/263133/what-language-for-starting-on-linux/ > > The answer I posted was perl of course but I bet some of you can provide > even better reasons than I was able to. > > Thanks, > P. > -- > Philip J. Hollenback > philiph at pobox.com > www.hollenback.net > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From extasia at extasia.org Mon Apr 25 16:22:58 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:22:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked Message-ID: greetings, so... i did a "fair" amount of rtfm'ing. i'm new to threads. running perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi on Linux $MYHOST 2.6.18-92.1.17.el5 #1 SMP Wed Oct 22 04:19:38 EDT 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux. downloaded latest threads from cpan. and of course, getting "Scalars leaked: ..." in output. so i renamed my-perl-threads-program to my-perl-threads-program-engine and have made my-perl-threads-program a wrapper: #!/bin/bash export PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:$DIR_WITH_MY_PGM my-perl-threads-program-engine "$@" 2>&1 | egrep -iv 'Scalars[[:space:]]+leaked:' status=$? exit $status before doing this (creating the wrapper program), i tried the following in my subroutines after processing @_, 'cause someone on the 'net suggested it: @_ = () if $ARGV[ 0 ]; didn't solve the problem. anyone have a better solution to get rid of this message? or perhaps a solution which will prevent the generation of the message? is this just something folks accept? i saw a lot of instances of folks/documentation saying to ignore these messages. is there a "fine manual" i missed that contains the answer? thanks, david p.s. heh. now that i look at my wrapper program, the exit status will be the status of my egrep, not my perl program. whatever, will address that later... -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Mon Apr 25 17:26:34 2011 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:26:34 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 19:22, David Alban wrote: > running perl, v5.8.8 I love retro styles as much as the next bell-bottom wearing hippie but a perl from 2006? Maybe that's your answer... ;-) (perl 5.10 fixed a number of memory leaks including the ones involving closures & threads which this I think is.) P From extasia at extasia.org Mon Apr 25 18:24:13 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:24:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Paul Makepeace wrote: > I love retro styles as much as the next bell-bottom wearing hippie but > a perl from 2006? Maybe that's your answer... ;-) not my decision. :-( > (perl 5.10 fixed a number of memory leaks including the ones involving > closures & threads which this I think is.) thanks. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Mon Apr 25 20:21:15 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:21:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I ran into similar problems (though not that particular message) with using threads on perl 5.8.6. After much hair-pulling I gave up on using real threads and installed "forks" from CPAN. It uses the same API as threads, but forks off a new perl interpreter for each one. It's not as fast as using threads would be, but a) it works now and b) I won't have to change the logic when we do finally upgrade to a more modern version of perl. You might want to check it out. -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | On Apr 25, 2011, at 6:24 PM, David Alban wrote: > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Paul Makepeace > wrote: >> I love retro styles as much as the next bell-bottom wearing hippie but >> a perl from 2006? Maybe that's your answer... ;-) > > not my decision. :-( > >> (perl 5.10 fixed a number of memory leaks including the ones involving >> closures & threads which this I think is.) > > thanks. > > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From james at ActionMessage.com Mon Apr 25 21:22:27 2011 From: james at ActionMessage.com (James Briggs) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:22:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked - perl ithreads history lesson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110426041607.M3951@actionmessage.com> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:21:15 -0700, Michael Friedman wrote > I ran into similar problems (though not that particular message) > with using threads on perl 5.8.6. After much hair-pulling I gave up > on using real threads and installed "forks" from CPAN. It uses the > same API as threads, but forks off a new perl interpreter for each > one. It's not as fast as using threads would be, but a) it works now > and b) I won't have to change the logic when we do finally upgrade > to a more modern version of perl. You might want to check it out. > > -- Mike FYI, Gurusamy Sarathy did a lot of the debugging to make perl ithreads almost work about 5 years ago. ActiveState needed reliable threads for their mail filter (milter) product written in Perl. He did a couple of great talks on that at the Perl Conference in San Diego. The result worked well enough that Sophos bought ActiveState for that product, he became CTO, and then Sophos spun off the tools group into the new ActiveState. So I guess the lesson is try the latest Perl, and if threads still don't work, man up and fix it, or try something else. :) James. From quinn at fairpath.com Tue Apr 26 11:50:46 2011 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 11:50:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with the recommendation to upgrade Perl, but, if that's a policy decision that you can't change, could do what you want using processes instead of threads? -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web design and development http://quinnweaver.com/ 510-520-5217 From extasia at extasia.org Tue Apr 26 12:21:53 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:21:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i'm using ssh to gather data from up to hundreds of servers. before threads, i forked and exec'd and communicated the results back to the parent via tmp files (performance wasn't an issue). what threads (and "forks" a la mr. friedman's suggestion) buy me is simplicity. i suppose i could look into some of the ipc modules, but geez, threads (forks) make things simple. On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: > I agree with the recommendation to upgrade Perl, but, if that's a > policy decision that you can't change, could do what you want using > processes instead of threads? -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From david at fetter.org Tue Apr 26 13:09:48 2011 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:09:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110426200948.GC24046@fetter.org> Have you considered clusterssh? Cheers, David. On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 12:21:53PM -0700, David Alban wrote: > i'm using ssh to gather data from up to hundreds of servers. before > threads, i forked and exec'd and communicated the results back to the > parent via tmp files (performance wasn't an issue). what threads (and > "forks" a la mr. friedman's suggestion) buy me is simplicity. i > suppose i could look into some of the ipc modules, but geez, threads > (forks) make things simple. > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > I agree with the recommendation to upgrade Perl, but, if that's a > > policy decision that you can't change, could do what you want using > > processes instead of threads? > > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm -- David Fetter http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate From uri at StemSystems.com Tue Apr 26 21:06:39 2011 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:06:39 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] Telecommute Perl Job Message-ID: <87sjt48hio.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> I have previously posted this job on the Perl jobs list but I forgot a very important fact. My client allows telecommuting from these states: CA FL GA IL MD MI NC NY So if you have the appropriate skills and are interested, send me your current resume in PDF or plain text (a URL is fine) and samples of your Perl code (a URL or CPAN id is fine). Send email to uri AT perlhunter.com and in your cover letter put your contact info (even if it is in your resume). thanx, uri The Perl Hunter has landed 2 choice leads in Silver Spring, MD. My client is seeking both a senior and junior Perl developer to work on their website. Both jobs are full time, salaried and onsite (with minimal travel). The senior job has a pay range from $90-105k and the junior position pay ranges from $65-80k. The technical manager (who is decent and smart) wants the senior developer to be able to take on a wide range of tasks and not need any hand-holding. One task will be guiding and mentoring the junior developer so some management skills are needed. This is a small shop so a broad skill set is most valuable. These requirements are for the senior position. If you have some of them but not all, then apply for the junior slot. Required Skills * Solid Perl, mod_perl, CPAN * Apache, linux administration * RDMBS and SQL * Release Engineering Desired Skills * MySQL server administration * Subversion * Strong shell * Endeca or other search engines * Experience with Akamai or other caching services * JBoss application server * B.S. or equivalent experience Computer Science * Ten years of development experience with at least three years in a lead role. -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From extasia at extasia.org Wed Apr 27 08:13:44 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 08:13:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] scalars leaked In-Reply-To: <20110426200948.GC24046@fetter.org> References: <20110426200948.GC24046@fetter.org> Message-ID: haven't, but will take a look. thanks. On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 1:09 PM, David Fetter wrote: > Have you considered clusterssh? -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From extasia at extasia.org Wed Apr 27 09:57:38 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:57:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] email reminders Message-ID: greetings, i've been using google calendar to email me reminders, but have lost all faith in it. it randomly stops sending reminders for "recurring events". anyone have an online solution that is working for them and is reliable? my requirements: online: no i don't want to use my smart phone for this. i want reminders emailed to me. be able to schedule one-time and / or recurring email reminders used to think this went without saying: reliable; no silent failures thanks, david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From christopher at tokpela.com Wed Apr 27 10:02:40 2011 From: christopher at tokpela.com (Christopher Taranto) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:02:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] email reminders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I really like GQueues (http://www.gqueues.com). I use the Lite version and haven't tried the paid version which offers reminders (both email and SMS). On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 9:57 AM, David Alban wrote: > greetings, > > i've been using google calendar to email me reminders, but have lost > all faith in it. it randomly stops sending reminders for "recurring > events". anyone have an online solution that is working for them and > is reliable? my requirements: > > online: no i don't want to use my smart phone for this. i want > reminders emailed to me. > be able to schedule one-time and / or recurring email reminders > used to think this went without saying: reliable; no silent failures > > thanks, > david > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From extasia at extasia.org Wed Apr 27 12:18:15 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:18:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] email reminders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: doesn't seem to let you specify a time, just a date for a "task" (which for me would simply be an email reminder). but thanks for the suggestion. 2011/4/27 Christopher Taranto : > I really like GQueues (http://www.gqueues.com). > > I use the Lite version and haven't tried the paid version which offers > reminders (both email and SMS). -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From extasia at extasia.org Wed Apr 27 12:21:28 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:21:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] email reminders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: of course, as soon as i sent that email i figured out how to do it. On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:18 PM, David Alban wrote: > doesn't seem to let you specify a time, just a date for a "task" > (which for me would simply be an email reminder). ?but thanks for the > suggestion. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From extasia at extasia.org Wed Apr 27 12:26:51 2011 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:26:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] email reminders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: however, you don't get reminders unless you pay the 25 bucks a year. and the reminders look suspiciously like google calendar reminders, which have been a disaster for me in terms of reliability. but again, thanks for the suggeston. maybe i'll see if yahoo has this functionality (would be surprised if they didn't). what do other folks do who do this over the web, rather than through their smart devices? On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:21 PM, David Alban wrote: > of course, as soon as i sent that email i figured out how to do it. > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:18 PM, David Alban wrote: >> doesn't seem to let you specify a time, just a date for a "task" >> (which for me would simply be an email reminder). ?but thanks for the >> suggestion. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Wed Apr 27 13:03:22 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 13:03:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] email reminders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7240943C-266A-4593-A7CD-7CE9381B9B92@highwire.stanford.edu> This isn't "on the web", per se, but there's a unix command-line (mostly) calendar program called 'remind' that I used to use. The beauty of it is that, by being a unix command-line program, it can be piped, redirected, and manipulated 1000 different ways using the various other unix command-line programs. On top of that, it's actually a smarter calendar program than iCal and Google Calendar, because it can do some really sophisticated date math. For an overview, see either of these: http://www.43folders.com/2005/02/24/guest-mike-harris-looks-at-remind http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3529?page=0,0 For your particular case, you can set up remind to send you email, as long as you have a machine with a net connection to run it on: http://roaringpenguin.com/wiki/index.php/Remind_FAQ#How_can_I_get_emailed_15_minutes_before_some_events.3F Finally, the download link from the official site: http://roaringpenguin.com/products/remind It's not as pretty as Google Calendar, but since it'll run on your own machine, it'll be as stable as you can make it. -- Mike PS - I stopped using remind when I got my iPhone. Now I just sync to my smart device and cut out the network entirely. But that's just me. I still think iCal is awful, though. ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:26 PM, David Alban wrote: > however, you don't get reminders unless you pay the 25 bucks a year. > and the reminders look suspiciously like google calendar reminders, > which have been a disaster for me in terms of reliability. but again, > thanks for the suggeston. maybe i'll see if yahoo has this > functionality (would be surprised if they didn't). > > what do other folks do who do this over the web, rather than through > their smart devices? > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:21 PM, David Alban wrote: >> of course, as soon as i sent that email i figured out how to do it. >> >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:18 PM, David Alban wrote: >>> doesn't seem to let you specify a time, just a date for a "task" >>> (which for me would simply be an email reminder). but thanks for the >>> suggestion. > > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Wed Apr 27 16:58:48 2011 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:58:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] last night's meeting Message-ID: The meeting seemed to go fairly well last night at Naan-n-Curry. David Sharnoff gave us his first impressions of Python's strength and weaknesses from the perl point of view, Thuon Chen did a quick presentation of a "rosetta" for the languages Perl, Python, R and Ruby, Josh Berkus dropped by and answered questions I had about column-oriented databases and such, and in general there were more conversational threads going on at any moment than you could keep track of. And just to following up on something I was saying: I was reading some criticism of jquery recently, by Rebecca Murphey, who essentially argues that it's DOM-centric view of the world isn't that well suited to real applications (great for simple stuff, but too hard to get it to do complex stuff): http://www.dagolden.com/index.php/1446/is-javascript-the-new-perl/ (By the way, Naan-n-Curry still rules for these impromptu meetings, a few blocks from Bart, big tables with no reservations necessary, and an all-you-can eat buffet for $10 cash, even if we did have to keep asking 'em to turn the music down again so we could hear each other... and I had some trouble talking while being attacked by a heavily spiced piece of cauliflower from hell.) From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Fri Apr 29 12:30:41 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:30:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster Message-ID: I'm having a lucky day, so why not test it... At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, we also have 2794 perl modules. Some of our scripts load up thousands of lines of perl code before they can do anything, even display a usage statement. Generally, from the time you hit it's at least 5 seconds before anything happens, often longer, because perl has to load in all the required modules. At one point, I looked into using SelfLoader and making every method into an autoloaded method, but that failed on some of our important modules because they were not coded to be as... we'll go with "clean"... as I would like. And since we have thousands of modules, any solution has to be automated across nearly everything to work. I can't get in the way of the rest of the development team's work, even for a noticeable performance gain. So, let me ask y'all: 1. Is there anything approaching a "perl compiler" these days? (Something that does the compile stage early and lets you then just run the binary later.) 2. Is there a better option than SelfLoader now, for only compiling the methods that you are actually using instead of all of them? (As you would guess, a 1,000+ line perl module has a lot of things in it that you don't need for any one script.) 3. Are there ways of marking up methods so they don't get parsed and compiled until they're needed? Thanks for any advice, tips, or tricks! -- Mike PS - We aren't using Moose or anything like that. All the modules are hash-based, generic Perl objects and function libraries. If there's a class structure framework or something that could take care of this partial compilation for me, that'd work too. ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu Fri Apr 29 13:46:44 2011 From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:46:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Michael Friedman < friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote: > At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, we > also have 2794 perl modules. Some of our scripts load up thousands of lines > of perl code before they can do anything, even display a usage statement. > Generally, from the time you hit it's at least 5 seconds before > anything happens, often longer, because perl has to load in all the required > modules. Hm. Do you actually need these modules loaded? (I'm guessing not) One way I've dealt with things like this using, e.g., MooseX::App::Cmd and having a role wrap execute() in each of the command classes, that then calls Class::MOP::load_class() against any modules the command needs to do its thing if the command is told to run. (MX::App::Cmd is just what I tend to use; the same methodology would work elsewhere.) This doesn't do any pre-compiling, but helps simply by cutting down to loading only what's needed. If they're all intertwined and you're looking for a way to make that behavior lazy-load, I'm afraid this won't help you at all. :) -Chris -- Chris Weyl Ex astris scientia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Fri Apr 29 14:14:56 2011 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:14:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <018F3FB3-9996-43B1-8E60-AA6DB96C22E4@highwire.stanford.edu> Well, we only load the modules we need for each script already. We aren't simply using the entire modules directory every time. :-) The problem is that we have some modules that were written as entire libraries of functions in one file, so to get the one function we need we have to parse all 3700 lines of code. The longer-term solution is, of course, to split these up into separate modules, so we can only load the individual pieces instead of the giant ball of mud. Unfortunately, there's no time in the schedule for that much refactoring. (Yeah, I know. It's called "Technical Debt" and we usually go for the quick and dirty solution. We're paying for it now.) In the meantime, though, I sure hoped something might help with lazy loading. MooseX::App::Cmd looks neat, but not so helpful at the moment. However, its POD mentions autouse and Class::Autouse, both of which might be helpful. I'm going to take a look at them and see if I can get at least a few of these modules to lazy load. Has anyone used autouse or its like? Thanks! -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Chris Weyl wrote: > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Michael Friedman < > friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote: > >> At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, we >> also have 2794 perl modules. Some of our scripts load up thousands of lines >> of perl code before they can do anything, even display a usage statement. >> Generally, from the time you hit it's at least 5 seconds before >> anything happens, often longer, because perl has to load in all the required >> modules. > > > Hm. Do you actually need these modules loaded? (I'm guessing not) One way > I've dealt with things like this using, e.g., MooseX::App::Cmd and having a > role wrap execute() in each of the command classes, that then calls > Class::MOP::load_class() against any modules the command needs to do its > thing if the command is told to run. (MX::App::Cmd is just what I tend to > use; the same methodology would work elsewhere.) This doesn't do any > pre-compiling, but helps simply by cutting down to loading only what's > needed. > > If they're all intertwined and you're looking for a way to make that > behavior lazy-load, I'm afraid this won't help you at all. :) > > -Chris > -- > Chris Weyl > Ex astris scientia From christopher at tokpela.com Fri Apr 29 14:37:45 2011 From: christopher at tokpela.com (Christopher Taranto) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:37:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: These look pretty old but maybe they are worth looking at. http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPerl/ http://daemoninc.com/PersistentPerl/ On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Michael Friedman < friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote: > I'm having a lucky day, so why not test it... > > At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, we > also have 2794 perl modules. Some of our scripts load up thousands of lines > of perl code before they can do anything, even display a usage statement. > Generally, from the time you hit it's at least 5 seconds before > anything happens, often longer, because perl has to load in all the required > modules. > > At one point, I looked into using SelfLoader and making every method into > an autoloaded method, but that failed on some of our important modules > because they were not coded to be as... we'll go with "clean"... as I would > like. And since we have thousands of modules, any solution has to be > automated across nearly everything to work. I can't get in the way of the > rest of the development team's work, even for a noticeable performance gain. > > So, let me ask y'all: > 1. Is there anything approaching a "perl compiler" these days? (Something > that does the compile stage early and lets you then just run the binary > later.) > > 2. Is there a better option than SelfLoader now, for only compiling the > methods that you are actually using instead of all of them? (As you would > guess, a 1,000+ line perl module has a lot of things in it that you don't > need for any one script.) > > 3. Are there ways of marking up methods so they don't get parsed and > compiled until they're needed? > > Thanks for any advice, tips, or tricks! > -- Mike > > PS - We aren't using Moose or anything like that. All the modules are > hash-based, generic Perl objects and function libraries. If there's a class > structure framework or something that could take care of this partial > compilation for me, that'd work too. > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | > friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james at ActionMessage.com Fri Apr 29 15:33:23 2011 From: james at ActionMessage.com (James Briggs) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:33:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110429223046.M10881@actionmessage.com> SpeedyCGI aka PersistentPerl works for some people (including me) for pre-compiling console apps, as well as an alternative to mod_perl Registry mode. Try it out. (I don't think it is maintained much these days.) James On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:30:41 -0700, Michael Friedman wrote > I'm having a lucky day, so why not test it... > > At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, > we also have 2794 perl modules. Some of our scripts load up > thousands of lines of perl code before they can do anything, even > display a usage statement. Generally, from the time you hit > it's at least 5 seconds before anything happens, often longer, > because perl has to load in all the required modules. > > At one point, I looked into using SelfLoader and making every method > into an autoloaded method, but that failed on some of our important > modules because they were not coded to be as... we'll go with > "clean"... as I would like. And since we have thousands of modules, > any solution has to be automated across nearly everything to work. > I can't get in the way of the rest of the development team's work, > even for a noticeable performance gain. > > So, let me ask y'all: > > 1. Is there anything approaching a "perl compiler" these days? > (Something that does the compile stage early and lets you then just > run the binary later.) > > 2. Is there a better option than SelfLoader now, for only compiling > the methods that you are actually using instead of all of them? (As > you would guess, a 1,000+ line perl module has a lot of things in it > that you don't need for any one script.) > > 3. Are there ways of marking up methods so they don't get parsed and > compiled until they're needed? > > Thanks for any advice, tips, or tricks! > -- Mike > > PS - We aren't using Moose or anything like that. All the modules > are hash-based, generic Perl objects and function libraries. If > there's a class structure framework or something that could take > care of this partial compilation for me, that'd work too. ______________________________________________________________________________ > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Fri Apr 29 19:12:19 2011 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 03:12:19 +0100 Subject: [sf-perl] last night's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 00:58, Joseph Brenner wrote: > I was reading some criticism of jquery recently, by Rebecca Murphey, > who essentially argues that it's DOM-centric view of the world isn't > that well suited to real applications (great for simple stuff, but too > hard to get it to do complex stuff): > > ?http://www.dagolden.com/index.php/1446/is-javascript-the-new-perl/ Is it just me or is this essentially just saying "mediocre programmers write mediocre code" (regardless of what language)? I don't see how anything jQuery has done has any influence on her argument. What am I missing? I have seen complex apps made out of jQuery that are comprehensible & maintainable so I'm not even convinced of the premise. Paul From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Apr 29 19:18:05 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:18:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Or you can always use the gold standard, mod_perl. Put your programs into handlers, and use LWP to run them. 2011/4/29 Christopher Taranto : > These look pretty old but maybe they are worth looking at. > > http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPerl/ > http://daemoninc.com/PersistentPerl/ > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Michael Friedman > wrote: >> >> I'm having a lucky day, so why not test it... >> >> At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, we >> also have 2794 perl modules. Some of our scripts load up thousands of lines >> of perl code before they can do anything, even display a usage statement. >> Generally, from the time you hit it's at least 5 seconds before >> anything happens, often longer, because perl has to load in all the required >> modules. >> >> At one point, I looked into using SelfLoader and making every method into >> an autoloaded method, but that failed on some of our important modules >> because they were not coded to be as... we'll go with "clean"... as I would >> like. And since we have thousands of modules, any solution has to be >> automated across nearly everything to work. I can't get in the way of the >> rest of the development team's work, even for a noticeable performance gain. >> >> So, let me ask y'all: >> 1. Is there anything approaching a "perl compiler" these days? (Something >> that does the compile stage early and lets you then just run the binary >> later.) >> >> 2. Is there a better option than SelfLoader now, for only compiling the >> methods that you are actually using instead of all of them? (As you would >> guess, a 1,000+ line perl module has a lot of things in it that you don't >> need for any one script.) >> >> 3. Are there ways of marking up methods so they don't get parsed and >> compiled until they're needed? >> >> Thanks for any advice, tips, or tricks! >> -- Mike >> >> PS - We aren't using Moose or anything like that. All the modules are >> hash-based, generic Perl objects and function libraries. If there's a class >> structure framework or something that could take care of this partial >> compilation for me, that'd work too. >> >> ______________________________________________________________________________ >> Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | >> friedman at highwire.stanford.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Apr 29 21:10:59 2011 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:10:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Michael Friedman >>> At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, we >>> also have 2794 perl modules. On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Or you can always use the gold standard, mod_perl. ?Put your programs > into handlers, and use LWP to run them. You have a web application in the making here. Pick a web standard to migrate to (I recommend psgi as it runs under both Plack compatible httpds and mod_perl2) and make the move. If you have that many programs, and the startup time is that pronounced, it is time to push this code into an intranet based application. Or webservice API - either way. If your technical user base is that large then an API allows them to access via language of choice. The point is that your code is complex enough now that you need persistent interpreters around to service requests quickly. > > 2011/4/29 Christopher Taranto : >> These look pretty old but maybe they are worth looking at. >> >> http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPerl/ >> http://daemoninc.com/PersistentPerl/ >> >> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Michael Friedman >> wrote: >>> >>> I'm having a lucky day, so why not test it... >>> >>> At my site, we run a lot of command-line perl scripts. Unfortunately, we >>> also have 2794 perl modules. Some of our scripts load up thousands of lines >>> of perl code before they can do anything, even display a usage statement. >>> Generally, from the time you hit it's at least 5 seconds before >>> anything happens, often longer, because perl has to load in all the required >>> modules. >>> >>> At one point, I looked into using SelfLoader and making every method into >>> an autoloaded method, but that failed on some of our important modules >>> because they were not coded to be as... we'll go with "clean"... as I would >>> like. And since we have thousands of modules, any solution has to be >>> automated across nearly everything to work. I can't get in the way of the >>> rest of the development team's work, even for a noticeable performance gain. >>> >>> So, let me ask y'all: >>> 1. Is there anything approaching a "perl compiler" these days? (Something >>> that does the compile stage early and lets you then just run the binary >>> later.) >>> >>> 2. Is there a better option than SelfLoader now, for only compiling the >>> methods that you are actually using instead of all of them? (As you would >>> guess, a 1,000+ line perl module has a lot of things in it that you don't >>> need for any one script.) >>> >>> 3. Are there ways of marking up methods so they don't get parsed and >>> compiled until they're needed? >>> >>> Thanks for any advice, tips, or tricks! >>> -- Mike >>> >>> PS - We aren't using Moose or anything like that. All the modules are >>> hash-based, generic Perl objects and function libraries. If there's a class >>> structure framework or something that could take care of this partial >>> compilation for me, that'd work too. >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________________ >>> Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | >>> friedman at highwire.stanford.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >> >> > From david at fetter.org Sat Apr 30 11:00:45 2011 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:00:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] last night's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110430180045.GA22408@fetter.org> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 03:12:19AM +0100, Paul Makepeace wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 00:58, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > I was reading some criticism of jquery recently, by Rebecca > > Murphey, who essentially argues that it's DOM-centric view of the > > world isn't that well suited to real applications (great for > > simple stuff, but too hard to get it to do complex stuff): > > > > ?http://www.dagolden.com/index.php/1446/is-javascript-the-new-perl/ > > Is it just me or is this essentially just saying "mediocre > programmers write mediocre code" (regardless of what language)? I > don't see how anything jQuery has done has any influence on her > argument. What am I missing? > > I have seen complex apps made out of jQuery that are comprehensible > & maintainable so I'm not even convinced of the premise. The sad reality is that there aren't all that many excellent programmers around, and there are few incentives to actually train up excellent programmers. It takes about a decade under excellent tutelage to turn a decent one into an excellent one, and "decade" isn't a thing many businesses have incentives to plan for. I'm not going to go too far into how the system of "making the numbers" on a quarterly basis is a principal cause of this, except to mention that it is. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu Sat Apr 30 12:25:34 2011 From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 12:25:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: <19900.21770.875540.377180@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <19900.21770.875540.377180@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:29 AM, George Hartzell wrote: > Chris Weyl writes: > > Hm. Do you actually need these modules loaded? (I'm guessing not) One > way > > I've dealt with things like this using, e.g., MooseX::App::Cmd and > having a > > role wrap execute() in each of the command classes, that then calls > > Class::MOP::load_class() against any modules the command needs to do its > > thing if the command is told to run. (MX::App::Cmd is just what I tend > to > > use; the same methodology would work elsewhere.) This doesn't do any > > pre-compiling, but helps simply by cutting down to loading only what's > > needed. > > [...] > > Hi Chris, > > Can you post an example of this? Or a bit more complete sketch? > > I have several a MooseX::App::Cmd based classes that could probably > benefit from this... > Sure -- imagine something like this: package MyApp::CommandRole::Lazy; use Moose::Role; use namespace::autoclean; requires '_lazy_classes'; requires 'execute'; before execute => sub { Class::MOP::load_class($_) for $_[0]->_lazy_classes }; ...then over in a command class: package MyApp::Command::something; use Moose; use namespace::autoclean; extends 'MooseX::App::Cmd::Command'; with 'MyApp::CommandRole::Lazy'; sub _lazy_classes { qw/ Big::DBIC::Schema OtherLargeClass ... / } sub execute { ... } etc. This way everything MX::App::Cmd needs for introspection loads properly every time the app/tool is run, but only when a given command class is actually execute()'ed do the big packages get loaded. The same method works with extending MooseX::App::Cmd::Command for a custom base class for your CLI tools. The advantage to the role here is that you don't need to worry about making sure the lazy classes are loaded by anything execute() does in your command classes: including the role and providing the required methods is sufficient. -Chris -- Chris Weyl Ex astris scientia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hartzell at alerce.com Sat Apr 30 15:25:25 2011 From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 15:25:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: <19900.21770.875540.377180@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <19900.35925.590993.519837@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Chris Weyl writes: > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:29 AM, George Hartzell wrote: > > > Chris Weyl writes: > > > Hm. Do you actually need these modules loaded? (I'm guessing not) One > > way > > > I've dealt with things like this using, e.g., MooseX::App::Cmd and > > having a > > > role wrap execute() in each of the command classes, that then calls > > > Class::MOP::load_class() against any modules the command needs to do its > > > thing if the command is told to run. (MX::App::Cmd is just what I tend > > to > > > use; the same methodology would work elsewhere.) This doesn't do any > > > pre-compiling, but helps simply by cutting down to loading only what's > > > needed. > > > [...] > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > Can you post an example of this? Or a bit more complete sketch? > > > > I have several a MooseX::App::Cmd based classes that could probably > > benefit from this... > > > > Sure -- imagine something like this: > > package MyApp::CommandRole::Lazy; > > use Moose::Role; > use namespace::autoclean; > > requires '_lazy_classes'; > requires 'execute'; > > before execute => sub { Class::MOP::load_class($_) for $_[0]->_lazy_classes > }; Thanks! That jogged things loose. I think I can just do that call to laod_class in my command's common baseclass's execute method (which uses inner/augment to run the children's execute. Nice. We'll see if it speeds things up. g. From fobispo at isc.org Sat Apr 30 15:39:47 2011 From: fobispo at isc.org (Francisco Obispo) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 15:39:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: <19900.35925.590993.519837@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <19900.21770.875540.377180@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19900.35925.590993.519837@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4E1592EC-B03B-4B52-9E81-4B3DB3D408D1@isc.org> How about using AutoLoader in your modules? The main difference is that function calls will be loaded as needed and not all at the same time. Which could significantly improve the overall loading speed. On Apr 30, 2011, at 3:25 PM, George Hartzell wrote: > Chris Weyl writes: >> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:29 AM, George Hartzell wrote: >> >>> Chris Weyl writes: >>>> Hm. Do you actually need these modules loaded? (I'm guessing not) One >>> way >>>> I've dealt with things like this using, e.g., MooseX::App::Cmd and >>> having a >>>> role wrap execute() in each of the command classes, that then calls >>>> Class::MOP::load_class() against any modules the command needs to do its >>>> thing if the command is told to run. (MX::App::Cmd is just what I tend >>> to >>>> use; the same methodology would work elsewhere.) This doesn't do any >>>> pre-compiling, but helps simply by cutting down to loading only what's >>>> needed. >>>> [...] >>> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> Can you post an example of this? Or a bit more complete sketch? >>> >>> I have several a MooseX::App::Cmd based classes that could probably >>> benefit from this... >>> >> >> Sure -- imagine something like this: >> >> package MyApp::CommandRole::Lazy; >> >> use Moose::Role; >> use namespace::autoclean; >> >> requires '_lazy_classes'; >> requires 'execute'; >> >> before execute => sub { Class::MOP::load_class($_) for $_[0]->_lazy_classes >> }; > > Thanks! That jogged things loose. I think I can just do that call to > laod_class in my command's common baseclass's execute method (which > uses inner/augment to run the children's execute. > > Nice. We'll see if it speeds things up. > > g. > > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm Francisco Obispo Hosted@ Programme Manager email: fobispo at isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC Key fingerprint = 532F 84EB 06B4 3806 D5FA 09C6 463E 614E B38D B1BE From hartzell at alerce.com Sat Apr 30 16:49:07 2011 From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:49:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] making perl compile phase faster In-Reply-To: References: <19900.21770.875540.377180@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <19900.40947.330666.111117@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Chris Weyl writes: > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:29 AM, George Hartzell wrote: > > > Chris Weyl writes: > > > Hm. Do you actually need these modules loaded? (I'm guessing not) One > > way > > > I've dealt with things like this using, e.g., MooseX::App::Cmd and > > having a > > > role wrap execute() in each of the command classes, that then calls > > > Class::MOP::load_class() against any modules the command needs to do its > > > thing if the command is told to run. (MX::App::Cmd is just what I tend > > to > > > use; the same methodology would work elsewhere.) This doesn't do any > > > pre-compiling, but helps simply by cutting down to loading only what's > > > needed. > > > [...] > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > Can you post an example of this? Or a bit more complete sketch? > > > > I have several a MooseX::App::Cmd based classes that could probably > > benefit from this... > > > > Sure -- imagine something like this: > > package MyApp::CommandRole::Lazy; > > use Moose::Role; > use namespace::autoclean; > > requires '_lazy_classes'; > requires 'execute'; > > before execute => sub { Class::MOP::load_class($_) for $_[0]->_lazy_classes > }; > > ...then over in a command class: > > package MyApp::Command::something; > > use Moose; > use namespace::autoclean; > extends 'MooseX::App::Cmd::Command'; > with 'MyApp::CommandRole::Lazy'; > > sub _lazy_classes { qw/ Big::DBIC::Schema OtherLargeClass ... / } > > sub execute { ... } > > etc. This way everything MX::App::Cmd needs for introspection loads > properly every time the app/tool is run, but only when a given command class > is actually execute()'ed do the big packages get loaded. > > The same method works with extending MooseX::App::Cmd::Command for a custom > base class for your CLI tools. The advantage to the role here is that you > don't need to worry about making sure the lazy classes are loaded by > anything execute() does in your command classes: including the role and > providing the required methods is sufficient. > > -Chris Hmmm. Took one of my apps from about 5 seconds to display the usage methods down to 1.5 seconds. That's really a perceptible difference. Cool.... g.