From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Sat May  1 14:32:32 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 14:32:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] poll: web or no?
In-Reply-To: <n2q4c714a9c1004301643z5a2c331cm537868f978caa4e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <n2q4c714a9c1004301643z5a2c331cm537868f978caa4e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D013FC6-4E03-4E72-B1F1-BF43E86AA1AD@highwire.stanford.edu>

Non-web. Mostly XML handling and database manipulation.

Some folks in charge decided long ago that "Perl is too slow to handle our web traffic," so I can't even attempt to get a foot in the door there. We're only allowed to use Perl for web stuff when it's internal-only. 

That said, we do have a number of quite nice internal websites running on CGI.pm, but they were written once, long ago, and designed so that we'd only have to change the non-web back end objects. So I'll modify a module and it will be used by both a command-line script and a Perl-run website. But the work almost never involves anything web related, it's only the objects that do the real work that need changes. Let's hear it for MVC!

-- Mike

PS - Yes, I know that by using CGI we're practically guaranteeing that the sites are slow. I've tried to change that decision, but alas, no luck so far. Heck, we're still running perl 5.8.6 and upgrading is not a priority, even though it'll make XML handling soooo much easier. It's no fun being a second-class citizen. 
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu


From extasia at extasia.org  Tue May  4 11:32:36 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 11:32:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] amusing bug
Message-ID: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>

it's so easy to miss the error in:

     $line =~ s{ s+ \z }{}xms;

when you expect to see:

     $line =~ s{ \s+ \z }{}xms;

i wondered why one of the lines was having its last character stripped
but the others were ok.

/me goes to get more caffiene

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From david at fetter.org  Tue May  4 11:39:29 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 11:39:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] amusing bug
In-Reply-To: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
References: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100504183929.GN28557@fetter.org>

On Tue, May 04, 2010 at 11:32:36AM -0700, David Alban wrote:
> it's so easy to miss the error in:
> 
>      $line =~ s{ s+ \z }{}xms;
> 
> when you expect to see:
> 
>      $line =~ s{ \s+ \z }{}xms;
> 
> i wondered why one of the lines was having its last character stripped
> but the others were ok.
> 
> /me goes to get more caffiene

This is why I use multi-line regexes for even the most trivial-seeming
things :)

Cheers,
David (who could well have missed the difference between s and \s, but
likes to think he'd have had a slightly easier time debugging same
than with the one-liner)
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue May  4 11:43:02 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 11:43:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] amusing bug
In-Reply-To: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
References: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <i2vad28918e1005041143h3e31f502n8b0f52e1274efbf8@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:32 AM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:
> it's so easy to miss the error in:
>
> ? ? $line =~ s{ s+ \z }{}xms;

Yep, I didn't catch this immediately.  One of the reasons I tend to
default to using / delimiters, and only the regex flags I need.  I
think this invocation makes it easier to catch the missing \

       $line =~ s/s+\z/;

       $line =~ s/\s+\z/;

>
> when you expect to see:
>
> ? ? $line =~ s{ \s+ \z }{}xms;
>
> i wondered why one of the lines was having its last character stripped
> but the others were ok.
>
> /me goes to get more caffiene
>
> --
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Tue May  4 13:02:44 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 13:02:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] amusing bug
In-Reply-To: <20100504183929.GN28557@fetter.org>
References: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100504183929.GN28557@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <201005042002.o44K2ja6099390@kzsu.stanford.edu>


David Alban wrote:
> it's so easy to miss the error in:
>
>      $line =~ s{ s+ \z }{}xms;
>
> when you expect to see:
>
>      $line =~ s{ \s+ \z }{}xms;
>
> i wondered why one of the lines was having its last character stripped
> but the others were ok.

The one I like is

   $line =~ s{ ^ \s+ (.*?) \s+ $ }{ $1 }x;

It always takes me awhile to figure out why the leading and
trailing spaces aren't all going away.

(I need a \X modifier that makes spaces insignificant in the
replace string as well as in the find pattern.)


From sphink at gmail.com  Tue May  4 13:35:31 2010
From: sphink at gmail.com (Steve Fink)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 13:35:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] amusing bug
In-Reply-To: <201005042002.o44K2ja6099390@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100504183929.GN28557@fetter.org>
	<201005042002.o44K2ja6099390@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <v2i7d7f2e8c1005041335m1f17a98cyb2d8248b5bdbd2d0@mail.gmail.com>

You might want to also make those +s into *s... (you're requiring
lines to have whitespace on *both* sides before you'll fix 'em.)

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> David Alban wrote:
>> it's so easy to miss the error in:
>>
>> ? ? ?$line =~ s{ s+ \z }{}xms;
>>
>> when you expect to see:
>>
>> ? ? ?$line =~ s{ \s+ \z }{}xms;
>>
>> i wondered why one of the lines was having its last character stripped
>> but the others were ok.
>
> The one I like is
>
> ? $line =~ s{ ^ \s+ (.*?) \s+ $ }{ $1 }x;
>
> It always takes me awhile to figure out why the leading and
> trailing spaces aren't all going away.
>
> (I need a \X modifier that makes spaces insignificant in the
> replace string as well as in the find pattern.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From garth.webb at gmail.com  Tue May  4 13:48:31 2010
From: garth.webb at gmail.com (Garth Webb)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 13:48:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] amusing bug
In-Reply-To: <v2i7d7f2e8c1005041335m1f17a98cyb2d8248b5bdbd2d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100504183929.GN28557@fetter.org>
	<201005042002.o44K2ja6099390@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<v2i7d7f2e8c1005041335m1f17a98cyb2d8248b5bdbd2d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <g2yc0d982e11005041348xcef96802z3a5cb53ff7a9ca8f@mail.gmail.com>

Or just match the bits you care about:

  $line =~ s/^\s+|\s+$//g;

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Steve Fink <sphink at gmail.com> wrote:

> You might want to also make those +s into *s... (you're requiring
> lines to have whitespace on *both* sides before you'll fix 'em.)
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > David Alban wrote:
> >> it's so easy to miss the error in:
> >>
> >>      $line =~ s{ s+ \z }{}xms;
> >>
> >> when you expect to see:
> >>
> >>      $line =~ s{ \s+ \z }{}xms;
> >>
> >> i wondered why one of the lines was having its last character stripped
> >> but the others were ok.
> >
> > The one I like is
> >
> >   $line =~ s{ ^ \s+ (.*?) \s+ $ }{ $1 }x;
> >
> > It always takes me awhile to figure out why the leading and
> > trailing spaces aren't all going away.
> >
> > (I need a \X modifier that makes spaces insignificant in the
> > replace string as well as in the find pattern.)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Tue May  4 15:25:51 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 15:25:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] amusing bug
In-Reply-To: <g2yc0d982e11005041348xcef96802z3a5cb53ff7a9ca8f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <i2w4c714a9c1005041132zabecc568zcab5f8a2cb15d931@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100504183929.GN28557@fetter.org>
	<201005042002.o44K2ja6099390@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<v2i7d7f2e8c1005041335m1f17a98cyb2d8248b5bdbd2d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<g2yc0d982e11005041348xcef96802z3a5cb53ff7a9ca8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201005042225.o44MPplF001895@kzsu.stanford.edu>


> > Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu>

> > > The one I like is
> > >
> > >   $line =~ s{ ^ \s+ (.*?) \s+ $ }{ $1 }x;
> > >
> > > It always takes me awhile to figure out why the leading and
> > > trailing spaces aren't all going away.

Steve Fink <sphink at gmail.com> wrote:

> You might want to also make those +s into *s... (you're requiring
> lines to have whitespace on *both* sides before you'll fix 'em.)

Good point.


Garth Webb <garth.webb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Or just match the bits you care about:
>
>   $line =~ s/^\s+|\s+$//g;

Which works because of the /g, of course.  I think readbility
suffers a bit though (at first glance it looks like it'll only
do one side or the other).

Incidentally, there's some talk on the perl5porters list about
adding a "trim" function to the perl core.

And there is, of course, a CPAN module to do this:

  http://search.cpan.org/~mattlaw/Text-Trim-1.02/lib/Text/Trim.pm

This might seem like overkill, except that it'll prevent you from
making bonehead mistakes with using \s+ instead of \s*.


From biztos at mac.com  Tue May  4 17:50:43 2010
From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 02:50:43 +0200
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Two openings at NASA Ames Research Center
Message-ID: <91CBF1C7-C938-466C-8118-ACDF279DED37@mac.com>

Below please find two job reqs that are currently open at NASA Ames Research Center, in the Intelligent Robotics group.

These are "contract" positions, which means they are not Government Service jobs per se, but rather go through a contract company.  That sort of thing is done a lot with government work; it's not at all sketchy even if it sounds odd.  Basically it's a lower tier than civil service with correspondingly less job security attached to a specific position, but I think good people find lots of opportunities and don't have any practical problems keeping one step ahead of budget vagaries.

These jobs would be mostly about implementation, not research, but it's friggin' NASA: smart people can do a lot, and very few of us get to work on anything nearly this cool in our day jobs.

Here's a quick link to the research page: http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/tech/asr/intelligent-robotics/

I am not a recruiter and I have no business affiliation with the US government.  I'm passing these on as a favor to my brother, who works for NASA in that division.

cheers

-- frosty

BUILD/RELEASE DEVELOPER

Title:    Build/Release Developer (full-time position)
Location: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

Want to help NASA explore the Moon, Mars and other places? Want to build
teraflop processing pipelines that will run on NASA's supercomputers? Want to
make robotics software that reaches millions of people?

The NASA Ames Intelligent Robotics Group (http://irg.arc.nasa.gov) has an
immediate opening for a full-time build/release engineer to help develop
cutting-edge software. In this position, you will be responsible for designing
and implementing a high-performance, multi-platform build/ release system and
tools for a variety of projects. The ideal candidate should be detail oriented
and obsessive about robuts, cross-platform code.

Your mission is to help IRG maximize our software development productivity
through automated builds, automated tests and best practices from industry and
the open-source community. You will support small teams (1-10 developers) who
work on projects in the areas of computer vision, geospatial data systems,
planetary robotics, 3D user interfaces, collaborative web systems, and more.

Responsibilities
* Design, implement, manage and improve continuous integration
environment
that supports multiple platforms and languages
* Assist developers with creating unit and integration tests
* Assist developers with projects that integrate code from
heterogeneous
source repositories (svn, git, mercurial)
* Perform minor platform porting tasks and assist developers with
complex
porting tasks
* Prepare source and binary release packages for delivery to third-
parties

Requirements
* Expert knowledge of software configuration management systems and/or
source code version control systems
* Expert knowledge of cross platform development (Windows, Linux,
and OS-X)
* Experience with C++, Java, Python, UNIX scripting, and PERL
* B.S. (or higher) in computer science
* At least 2 years experience in software engineering, release
engineering,
and/or configuration management

Preferred Experience
* Expert knowledge of CMake and Autotools
* Experience with multiple continuous integration tools (BuildBot,
Hudson,
CDash, Bamboo, etc)
* Experience with multiple testing frameworks (JUnit, CppUnit,
Boost.Test,
GoogleTest, CTest, etc)
* Experience with Kitware tools (CPack, CTest, CDash)
* Extensive knowledge of Linux and Win32

If you are interested in applying for this position, please send the
following via email:

- a letter describing your background and experience
- a detailed resume (PDF or text)
- contact details for two (or more) references

to Terry Fong <terry.fong at nasa.gov>.

The NASA Ames Intelligent Robotics Group (IRG) is dedicated to enabling humans
and robots to explore and learn about extreme environments, remote locations,
and uncharted worlds. IRG conducts applied research in a wide range of areas
with an emphasis on robotics systems science and field testing. IRG's
expertise includes applied computer vision (navigation, 3D surface modeling,
automated science support), human-robot interaction, interactive 3D user
interfaces, robot software architecture, and planetary rovers. Recent projects
include:

Google Mars 3D                  http://earth.google.com
Google NASA Planetary Content:  http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/projects/planetary
Robotic Site Survey:            http://ha    ughton2007.arc.nasa.gov
GigaPan GigaPixel Panoramas:    http://gigapan.org

---
---
---
---
---
---
---
--------------------------------------------------------------------

SENIOR SOFTWARE DEVELOPER

Title:       Software Developer (full-time position)
Location:    NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

Want to help NASA map Mars and the Moon? Want to build teraflop image
processing pipelines that will run on NASA's supercomputers? Want to help set
an example that will define the course of NASA open source software
development?

The NASA Ames Intelligent Robotics Group (irg.arc.nasa.gov) has an immediate
opening for a full-time senior software developer to help create the next
generation planetary ground data system and automated satellite image
processing pipeline. This is a high-profile, high-impact opportunity to
co-develop software that will make a difference in how we explore space. This
software is already being used by NASA mission engineers, the planetary
science community, and the general public through Google Mars/Moon, Microsoft
World Wide Telescope, and other cutting-edge science and outreach platforms.

Applicants should hold a B.S. (or higher) in Computer Science and have
excellent software engineering and system development skills. A strong
background in UNIX development and open-source tools is required.

- 2+ years of experience as lead software developer

- 2+ years of software development experience with C++ and Python. Experience
  with C++ template and generic programming idioms is a major plus

In addition, knowledge in one (or more) of the following areas is
greatly
preferred:

- distributed computing, multi-threaded and parallel processing

- geospatial data systems (KML, GIS, GDAL, proj.4, etc.)

- linear algebra and statistics, plus some knowledge of optimization,
  estimation, and probablistic methods

- computer vision (camera models, stereo vision, lidar, 2D/3D mosaicking)

If you are interested in applying for this position, please send the
following via email:

- a letter describing your background and software experience

- a detailed resume (PDF or text)

- contact details for two (or more) references

to Dr. Terry Fong <terry.fong at nasa.gov>.

The NASA Ames Intelligent Robotics Group (IRG) is dedicated to enabling humans
and robots to explore and learn about extreme environments, remote locations,
and uncharted worlds. IRG conducts applied research in a wide range of areas
with an emphasis on robotics systems science and field testing. IRG's
expertise includes applied computer vision (navigation, planetary mapping,
automated science support), interactive 3D user interfaces, robot software
architecture, and planetary rovers. Recent projects include:

Mars in Google Earth         http://earth.google.com
Moon in Google Earth         http://moon.google.com
NASA Vision Workbench        http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/visionworkbench
GigaPan Robotic Camera       http://gigapan.org
Robotic Recon Field Test     http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/roboticrecon






From josh at agliodbs.com  Wed May  5 16:03:36 2010
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 16:03:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] poll: web or no?
In-Reply-To: <2D013FC6-4E03-4E72-B1F1-BF43E86AA1AD@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <n2q4c714a9c1004301643z5a2c331cm537868f978caa4e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2D013FC6-4E03-4E72-B1F1-BF43E86AA1AD@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4BE1F948.1030206@agliodbs.com>

All,

Non-web.


-- 
                                  -- Josh Berkus
                                     PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
                                     http://www.pgexperts.com

From extasia at extasia.org  Wed May  5 16:58:16 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 16:58:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [summary] poll: web or no?
In-Reply-To: <n2q4c714a9c1004301643z5a2c331cm537868f978caa4e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <n2q4c714a9c1004301643z5a2c331cm537868f978caa4e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <g2l4c714a9c1005051658r5097414aq1bf20e67846857c9@mail.gmail.com>

summary:

6 responders report mostly web
11 responders report mostly non-web

this surprises me.  from the list discussion (for years) i would have
assumed 80% web, 20% non-web.  i kinda thought i was a little odd in
that i do almost all backend / system stuff.  well, i still am a
little odd, but no longer for that reason!

data:

    N  [5/95]    <== this is me btw, so you won't see a post to the
list with this data
W      "Web."
    N  "Most"
    N  "Non-web at the moment"
W      "Currently"
    N  [40/60]
W      "web programming for internal website"
    N  "Non web"
    N  "Non-Web/Web  60/40."
W      "Web."
    N  [responded to other post's question: "love to know what sort of
           non-web projects people are working on" with list of non-web work]
W      "Internal web programming here"
    N  "Currently non-web"
W      "Day job: 90 : 10 non-web [...]  Private projects: about 50-50"
    N  "Non-web: build, testing, and Hudson support."
    N  "Non-web. Mostly XML handling and database manipulation."
    N  "Non-web."



On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 4:43 PM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:
> after a while i'll post the results.

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From hartzell at alerce.com  Wed May  5 17:34:27 2010
From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 17:34:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
Message-ID: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


I'd like to start playing with Perl-Critic.  It seems to be extremely
flexible (even by Perl TMTOWTDI standards).

As I wade in and start exploring options I've realized that it might
be really useful to hear how other folks use it (policies, severities,
where/when you use it (svn hooks, etc...)).

Anyone want to share?

g.

From rdm at cfcl.com  Wed May  5 17:50:42 2010
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 17:50:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@[192.168.1.205]>

Maybe it's time for a(nother?) Perl::Critic presentation.  Can
Jeffrey Thalhammer can be convinced to give us an overview and
update?

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, system design

From biztos at mac.com  Wed May  5 17:57:21 2010
From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 17:57:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <160231587320521760915186241370376832003-Webmail@me.com>
References: <160231587320521760915186241370376832003-Webmail@me.com>
Message-ID: <53527964124981898424011849148877129104-Webmail@me.com>

I use it but just out of the box according to the following principles:

Level 3 violations get either changed or a comment as to why not.

Level 2's and 3's are investigated if they aren't among the few "don't agree with Damian" policies.

(That's when I'm working with a modern Perl and a modern code base, which isn't always.  But I perlcritic old legacy stuff too, mostly for informational purposes.)

I find that once you get in the habit, it makes your code a lot cleaner and it catches a lot of stupid mistakes you'd surely catch later anyway, thus saving you time.

I have - for a friggin' long time - been meaning to come up with some policies of my own, some for my employer and some for my own outside code.  Thus I'm also eager to hear others' experiences.  I strongly suspect the Best Thing is to treat any violation as a test failure and remove any policies you don't believe that strongly in.

I seem to recall someone having a "codenazi" pre-commit hook...

...and I definitely recall someone suggesting a good way to protect Kwalitee in legacy code is to remember the legacy policy violations for each class and have a policy stating you can't have any *new* violations.

(Both somebodies are probably on the list, not sure if they want to be named.)

-- f.

On Wednesday, May 05, 2010, at 05:34PM, "George Hartzell" <hartzell at alerce.com> wrote:
>
>I'd like to start playing with Perl-Critic.  It seems to be extremely
>flexible (even by Perl TMTOWTDI standards).
>
>As I wade in and start exploring options I've realized that it might
>be really useful to hear how other folks use it (policies, severities,
>where/when you use it (svn hooks, etc...)).
>
>Anyone want to share?
>
>g.
>_______________________________________________
>SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
>

From biztos at mac.com  Wed May  5 17:59:12 2010
From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 17:59:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <53527964124981898424011849148877129104-Webmail@me.com>
References: <160231587320521760915186241370376832003-Webmail@me.com>
	<53527964124981898424011849148877129104-Webmail@me.com>
Message-ID: <64787488150301752453633683289947669590-Webmail@me.com>

Oops, I'm dumb: I meant Level 2's and Level 1's get investigated or ignored.  I pretty much agree with the 3's.

-- f.

 
On Wednesday, May 05, 2010, at 05:57PM, "Kevin Frost" <biztos at mac.com> wrote:
>I use it but just out of the box according to the following principles:
>
>Level 3 violations get either changed or a comment as to why not.
>
>Level 2's and 3's are investigated if they aren't among the few "don't agree with Damian" policies.
>
>(That's when I'm working with a modern Perl and a modern code base, which isn't always.  But I perlcritic old legacy stuff too, mostly for informational purposes.)
>
>I find that once you get in the habit, it makes your code a lot cleaner and it catches a lot of stupid mistakes you'd surely catch later anyway, thus saving you time.
>
>I have - for a friggin' long time - been meaning to come up with some policies of my own, some for my employer and some for my own outside code.  Thus I'm also eager to hear others' experiences.  I strongly suspect the Best Thing is to treat any violation as a test failure and remove any policies you don't believe that strongly in.
>
>I seem to recall someone having a "codenazi" pre-commit hook...
>
>...and I definitely recall someone suggesting a good way to protect Kwalitee in legacy code is to remember the legacy policy violations for each class and have a policy stating you can't have any *new* violations.
>
>(Both somebodies are probably on the list, not sure if they want to be named.)
>
>-- f.
>
>On Wednesday, May 05, 2010, at 05:34PM, "George Hartzell" <hartzell at alerce.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'd like to start playing with Perl-Critic.  It seems to be extremely
>>flexible (even by Perl TMTOWTDI standards).
>>
>>As I wade in and start exploring options I've realized that it might
>>be really useful to hear how other folks use it (policies, severities,
>>where/when you use it (svn hooks, etc...)).
>>
>>Anyone want to share?
>>
>>g.
>>_______________________________________________
>>SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>>SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed May  5 21:08:42 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 21:08:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <201005060408.o4648gaX035734@kzsu.stanford.edu>


George Hartzell <hartzell at alerce.com> wrote:

> I'd like to start playing with Perl-Critic.  It seems to be extremely
> flexible (even by Perl TMTOWTDI standards).
>
> As I wade in and start exploring options I've realized that it might
> be really useful to hear how other folks use it (policies, severities,
> where/when you use it (svn hooks, etc...)).
>
> Anyone want to share?

Do you know that there are some standard policy settings out on CPAN?
Here's Andy Lester's recommendations:

  http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/Perl-Critic-Bangs-1.04/

I like the one that looks for TODO comments (I thought about writing a
test like that, and then realized Lester was ahead of me again.)

I've started using perlcritic more regularly after I added it to the
perlnow.el command I use to check perl code inside of emacs...

But I'm still using the vanilla settings, which I'm afraid don't often
tell me anything interesting about my own code (I've been at this
awhile now, and my natural style is pretty close to "Best Practices").


From jeff at imaginative-software.com  Wed May  5 21:57:37 2010
From: jeff at imaginative-software.com (Jeffrey Thalhammer)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:57:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@[192.168.1.205]>
	<201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>


On May 5, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Joe Brenner wrote:

> Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
> 
>> Maybe it's time for a(nother?) Perl::Critic presentation.  Can
>> Jeffrey Thalhammer can be convinced to give us an overview and
>> update?
> 
> Well, that sounds good to me, but then we just had a presentation from
> Jeffrey, and I wouldn't want to over-work him... also I think Jeffrey
> has handed off maintainership to Elliot Shank (who is in the Chicago area),
> and I don't know if he's still doing perlcritic advocacy...
> 
> Anyway, Jeffrey?


Perl-Critic is still my pride and joy.  But new development has slowed in the last 
year, and Elliot and Tom Wyant now handle most of the day-to-day maintenance.

I'd be delighted to give another presentation on Perl-Critic.   There are several
possible topics:

* What it is Perl-Critic & how to use perlcritic(1)
* Examination of specific policies.
* How to write custom policies.
* Strategies for policy selection.
* How to integrate Perl-Critic with the development cycle.
* How bring Perl-Critic into your team without annoying everyone else.

I can cover any or all of this (in varying levels of detail).  What would you all
like to hear most?

Fred, Joe: What does the SFPM schedule look like for the next few months?

Jeffrey Thalhammer
Imaginative Software Systems
vcard: http://www.imaginative-software.com/contact/jeff.vcf


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From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed May  5 22:55:51 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 22:55:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@[192.168.1.205]>
	<201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
Message-ID: <201005060555.o465tpCc037113@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Jeffrey Thalhammer <jeff at imaginative-software.com> wrote:

> I'd be delighted to give another presentation on Perl-Critic.
> There are several possible topics:
>
> * What it is Perl-Critic & how to use perlcritic(1)
> * Examination of specific policies.
> * How to write custom policies.
> * Strategies for policy selection.
> * How to integrate Perl-Critic with the development cycle.
> * How bring Perl-Critic into your team without annoying everyone else.

I'm most interested in "How to write custom policies", but why don't we
watch where discussion on the list goes in the next day, maybe a theme
will emerge.

> Fred, Joe: What does the SFPM schedule look like for the next few
> months?

David Vetter is speaking this month on may 25th,
I think June 22 and July 27 are open.


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu May  6 12:06:50 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 12:06:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <k2jad28918e1005061206r44963e52o2b49604c3b0b0dee@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:34 PM, George Hartzell <hartzell at alerce.com> wrote:
>
> I'd like to start playing with Perl-Critic. ?It seems to be extremely
> flexible (even by Perl TMTOWTDI standards).
>
> As I wade in and start exploring options I've realized that it might
> be really useful to hear how other folks use it (policies, severities,
> where/when you use it (svn hooks, etc...)).
>
> Anyone want to share?

I've worked on a couple of projects that used Perl-Critic and here are
my biggest takeaways:

1) Subversion pre-commit hooks are great, but having your checkins
rejected for compliance burns a lot of developer time.  Reject
checkins for only the most egregious violations (use of map in void
context, etc.).  If you have the skills, refactor the code
automagically with a subversion wrapper and then check it in.  I wrote
a proof of concept a while ago to do this, but wondered how deep the
rabbit hole went to make it work across lots of policies.

2) You can't please all the developers all of the time.  Start off
with the default policies and live with it for a couple of months
before considering custom policies.  You can argue endlessly about
whether globals should be $lowercase, $CamelCase, or $UPPERCASE, and
most of those arguments will burn developer time and produce limited
value.

3) This is somewhat off topic but when you have hooks in place for
perlcritic, perltidy hooks often get added in too.  Write a subversion
wrapper which perltidies the code into a new file and checks that in.
Code formatting should happen automatically.  If you have to run
'perltidy file.pl' or \ry in vim or perlnow-perltidy in emacs then you
burn developer cycles (a small number but it adds up in the long
term).

From hartzell at alerce.com  Thu May  6 12:37:31 2010
From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 12:37:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@[192.168.1.205]>
	<201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
Message-ID: <19427.6779.561535.761062@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Jeffrey Thalhammer writes:
 > [...]
 > Perl-Critic is still my pride and joy.  But new development has slowed in the last 
 > year, and Elliot and Tom Wyant now handle most of the day-to-day maintenance.
 > 
 > I'd be delighted to give another presentation on Perl-Critic.   There are several
 > possible topics:
 > 
 > * What it is Perl-Critic & how to use perlcritic(1)
 > * Examination of specific policies.
 > * How to write custom policies.
 > * Strategies for policy selection.
 > * How to integrate Perl-Critic with the development cycle.
 > * How bring Perl-Critic into your team without annoying everyone else.

Hi Jeffrey,

Would you be interested in giving a lunch-time technical talk to the
Bioinformatics department at Genentech.  There'd be a free lunch
involved.  I'm not sure if I can shake out an honorarium but it might
be possible.

Thanks,

g.

From mcmahon at ibiblio.org  Thu May  6 12:43:34 2010
From: mcmahon at ibiblio.org (Joe McMahon)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 12:43:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <19427.6779.561535.761062@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@192.168.1.205> 
	<201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
	<19427.6779.561535.761062@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <z2m76df99601005061243pea8a4320mcb81c7656f408392@mail.gmail.com>

One of the Hudson builds does nothing but run perlcritic and jslint
against the codebase. Makes it very easy to spot problems without
clobbering the entire build because someone violated a Perl::Critic
rule.

I'm on the waitlist to do a presentation at OSCON ("we like it, but
not quite enough to give it a slot unless someone else cancels") on
using Hudson with non-Java stuff - maybe I could/should do a dry run
for SF.pm?

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Thu May  6 13:20:52 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 13:20:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Hudson presentation
In-Reply-To: <z2m76df99601005061243pea8a4320mcb81c7656f408392@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@192.168.1.205>
	<201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
	<19427.6779.561535.761062@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<z2m76df99601005061243pea8a4320mcb81c7656f408392@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A19C975-6A1B-4342-A6CA-07126081C908@highwire.stanford.edu>

I, for one, would love to see a presentation on Hudson with Perl. 

-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On May 6, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Joe McMahon wrote:

> One of the Hudson builds does nothing but run perlcritic and jslint
> against the codebase. Makes it very easy to spot problems without
> clobbering the entire build because someone violated a Perl::Critic
> rule.
> 
> I'm on the waitlist to do a presentation at OSCON ("we like it, but
> not quite enough to give it a slot unless someone else cancels") on
> using Hudson with non-Java stuff - maybe I could/should do a dry run
> for SF.pm?
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From vhr75 at yahoo.com  Thu May  6 13:40:57 2010
From: vhr75 at yahoo.com (Victor Ramirez)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 13:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Hudson presentation
In-Reply-To: <8A19C975-6A1B-4342-A6CA-07126081C908@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <670912.33915.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I would love to see a Hudson demo.

Cheers,

Victor Ramirez


--- On Thu, 5/6/10, Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote:

> From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Hudson presentation
> To: mcmahon at ibiblio.org, "San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group" <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> Date: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 1:20 PM
> I, for one, would love to see a
> presentation on Hudson with Perl. 
> 
> -- Mike
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Joe McMahon wrote:
> 
> > One of the Hudson builds does nothing but run
> perlcritic and jslint
> > against the codebase. Makes it very easy to spot
> problems without
> > clobbering the entire build because someone violated a
> Perl::Critic
> > rule.
> > 
> > I'm on the waitlist to do a presentation at OSCON ("we
> like it, but
> > not quite enough to give it a slot unless someone else
> cancels") on
> > using Hudson with non-Java stuff - maybe I
> could/should do a dry run
> > for SF.pm?
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu May  6 13:48:49 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 13:48:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Notice of Reply-To email list setting change
Message-ID: <i2iad28918e1005061348v4a2a10a9r187f2b58fe476117@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings SF.pm members,

This is a notice to inform you that Reply-To setting for this mailing
list has been temporarily changed from reply-to list, to reply-to
poster.

What this means is that when you hit the reply button (or link for
those lucky pine users), your message will no longer go to the rest of
the list by default.  It will go to the sender.  So if you reply to
this message, only I will get the reply.

Whereas previously, your reply would go to the entire list.  To reply
to the entire list, please choose the 'reply to all' feature of your
email client.

This is a temporary change, the duration of which is currently under
consideration while the effects of this change are evaluated.  Please
refrain from starting another discussion on this issue unless you use
the [offtopic] subject tag.

Thank you,

The Management

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Thu May  6 13:59:34 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 13:59:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <z2m76df99601005061243pea8a4320mcb81c7656f408392@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@192.168.1.205> 
	<201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
	<19427.6779.561535.761062@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<z2m76df99601005061243pea8a4320mcb81c7656f408392@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <t2zc37577dd1005061359t1d930361k90d022c42bdecd12@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:43, Joe McMahon <mcmahon at ibiblio.org> wrote:
> One of the Hudson builds does nothing but run perlcritic and jslint
> against the codebase. Makes it very easy to spot problems without
> clobbering the entire build because someone violated a Perl::Critic
> rule.
>
> I'm on the waitlist to do a presentation at OSCON ("we like it, but
> not quite enough to give it a slot unless someone else cancels") on
> using Hudson with non-Java stuff - maybe I could/should do a dry run
> for SF.pm?

Yes, please :)

Various employers I've had have had continuous test rigs and they're
awesome. I've not had the tuits to do it for my own so if someone has
A Plan, I'm sure I'd not be the only one interested.

Paul

> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From david at fetter.org  Thu May  6 14:19:23 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 14:19:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Notice of Reply-To email list setting change
In-Reply-To: <i2iad28918e1005061348v4a2a10a9r187f2b58fe476117@mail.gmail.com>
References: <i2iad28918e1005061348v4a2a10a9r187f2b58fe476117@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100506211923.GD17024@fetter.org>

On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 01:48:49PM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
> Greetings SF.pm members,
> 
> This is a notice to inform you that Reply-To setting for this mailing
> list has been temporarily changed from reply-to list, to reply-to
> poster.
> 
> What this means is that when you hit the reply button (or link for
> those lucky pine users), your message will no longer go to the rest of
> the list by default.  It will go to the sender.  So if you reply to
> this message, only I will get the reply.
> 
> Whereas previously, your reply would go to the entire list.  To reply
> to the entire list, please choose the 'reply to all' feature of your
> email client.
> 
> This is a temporary change, the duration of which is currently under
> consideration while the effects of this change are evaluated.  Please
> refrain from starting another discussion on this issue unless you use
> the [offtopic] subject tag.

It looks to me like reply-to-list, which all good email clients have,
is working :)

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From mcmahon at ibiblio.org  Thu May  6 14:24:25 2010
From: mcmahon at ibiblio.org (Joe McMahon)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 14:24:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perlcritic startup.
In-Reply-To: <t2zc37577dd1005061359t1d930361k90d022c42bdecd12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<p0623094ec807c1d9d2eb@192.168.1.205> 
	<201005060415.o464ExTu035821@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<7F40E428-F338-41AB-B348-655C4871DF52@imaginative-software.com>
	<19427.6779.561535.761062@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<z2m76df99601005061243pea8a4320mcb81c7656f408392@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2zc37577dd1005061359t1d930361k90d022c42bdecd12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <s2y76df99601005061424ld5ccfc3bpf749db09fcc7c37c@mail.gmail.com>

I'd better get after the writing then, instead of finishing the slides
on the plane in true Perl conference tradition! :)

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu May  6 15:11:37 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 15:11:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] automatic perltidy (was Re:  Perlcritic startup.)
In-Reply-To: <k2jad28918e1005061206r44963e52o2b49604c3b0b0dee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19426.3731.709192.999843@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<k2jad28918e1005061206r44963e52o2b49604c3b0b0dee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201005062211.o46MBbUd052036@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:

> 3) This is somewhat off topic but when you have hooks in place for
> perlcritic, perltidy hooks often get added in too.  Write a subversion
> wrapper which perltidies the code into a new file and checks that in.
> Code formatting should happen automatically.

Just up on perlsphere, Ovid is complaining about how he can never talk
anyone into setting things up that way:

  http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2010/05/things-i-cant-have.html

Myself, I tend to like optional code formatting, so that it's *possible*
to use idiosyncratic formatting when that makes things clearer.

It'd be cool to have a compromise solution, like say, code gets
autoformatted on the first check-in, but later check-ins are left alone.
(And were I the boss, I might like to be able to quietly impose
automatic formatting only for certain members of the dev team...)

Side issue: wouldn't it be cool if we had diffs that didn't care so much
about whitespace? Perhaps even semantically-aware diffs?  Then tab-wars
would get a lot less rancorous...

> If you have to run 'perltidy file.pl' or \ry in vim or
> perlnow-perltidy in emacs then you burn developer cycles (a small
> number but it adds up in the long term).

In emacs, I just use C-M-\ (indent-region) all the time myself: the
cperl-mode default works well enough I never feel the need to use
perltidy.

It is, of course, possible to set-up emacs to do an automatic perltidy
on the buffer when you save the file.



From josh at agliodbs.com  Thu May  6 15:20:21 2010
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 15:20:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Notice of Reply-To email list setting change
In-Reply-To: <i2iad28918e1005061348v4a2a10a9r187f2b58fe476117@mail.gmail.com>
References: <i2iad28918e1005061348v4a2a10a9r187f2b58fe476117@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BE340A5.4090608@agliodbs.com>


> This is a notice to inform you that Reply-To setting for this mailing
> list has been temporarily changed from reply-to list, to reply-to
> poster.

oooh! oooh! flamewar!  flamewar!

Seriously, though, Thunderbird 3.1 now has very good reply-to-list
functionality, and Kmail has had it for years.

-- 
                                  -- Josh Berkus
                                     PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
                                     http://www.pgexperts.com

From hartzell at alerce.com  Fri May  7 09:42:25 2010
From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 09:42:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Contract programmer in Bioinformatics at Genentech.
Message-ID: <19428.17137.149624.273523@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


Genentech's Bioinformatics department seeks an experienced software
engineer for a six month contract.  Modern Perl (or enlightened, or
..., just not circa 1998) style is required.

We build tools to support our Research labs, collecting, storing,
massaging, and presenting information to computer-philes and -phobes.
We have more to do than we can handle, you'll be pitching in.  Exactly
what you'd be doing will be a function of your skills and our needs,
and will probably vary a bit over the six month period.

You write tests, sometimes even before you write code.  You're not
afraid of a little SQL and are comfortable collaborating with folks
who were born speaking it.  You're familiar with things like Moose,
Rose::DB::Object, CGI::Application, NYTProf, and their ilk (or
brethren) and more importantly are excited about learning more about
them and using them in real-world work.  Smoothing out our in-house
DPAN, setting up an automated build/smoke system (we have Hudson
handling Java builds already) and helping with some other
infrastructure stuff is also on the table.

You'll be working more-or-less full time in South San Fransisco,
there's the potential for a bit of telecommuting once things get
running smoothly but the bulk of the job is onsite.

Things that you should be comfortable with include:

Perl ("modern")
SQL, object relational mappers
Web application (CGI::Application, or similar)
CPAN, Module::Build, Dist::Zilla, etc....
Linux
Software engineering in a professional environment.
Experience in bioinformatics, biology, or supporting scientists would
be helpful but is not required. 

Please send cover letters and resumes to my work address:
georgewh at gene.com (the ability to follow directions is important).

Bonus points for easy formats (PDF is great!), demerits for sending me
stuff in DOS specific archive formats.

g.

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri May  7 12:16:15 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:16:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] PL/Parrot, a DSL construction kit for PostgreSQL
Message-ID: <g2nad28918e1005071216ybf90f907p61bf9f4883bedb02@mail.gmail.com>

What do you get when you cross a parrot with an elephant?  Find out!
PL/Parrot is a DSL construction kit for PostgreSQL, and much, much
more.  Stay tuned for more details.  David Fetter will give us the ins
and outs of PL/Parrot.

This meeting will take place on Tuesday, May 25th at 7pm at Six Apart
World Headquarters.  Please RSVP at
http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/13415730/

Parrot home page:  http://www.parrot.org/

PL/Parrot on GitHub:  http://github.com/leto/plparrot

David Fetter's home page:  http://fetter.org/

Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Fri May  7 12:27:35 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:27:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] sorting CPAN search by date
Message-ID: <A1EF1369-1E97-4142-B5CE-FE54EA743391@highwire.stanford.edu>

Is there a way to search CPAN and sort the results by date?

I'm tired of searching for something at http://search.cpan.org and getting modules from 1996 as the top hits when something from 2010 on page 3 is what I really want.

-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu


From kvale at phy.ucsf.edu  Fri May  7 12:44:52 2010
From: kvale at phy.ucsf.edu (Mark Kvale)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 12:44:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] sorting CPAN search by date
In-Reply-To: <A1EF1369-1E97-4142-B5CE-FE54EA743391@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <A1EF1369-1E97-4142-B5CE-FE54EA743391@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4BE46DB4.90308@phy.ucsf.edu>

On 05/07/2010 12:27 PM, Michael Friedman wrote:
> Is there a way to search CPAN and sort the results by date?
>
> I'm tired of searching for something at http://search.cpan.org and getting modules from 1996 as the top hits when something from 2010 on page 3 is what I really want.
>
> -- Mike
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

Hi Mike,

I don't know of one for http://search.cpan.org, but

http://www.cpan.org/modules/01modules.index.html

is a list of modules along with an upload date for each.

Mark

From miyagawa at gmail.com  Fri May  7 13:17:30 2010
From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 13:17:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] sorting CPAN search by date
In-Reply-To: <A1EF1369-1E97-4142-B5CE-FE54EA743391@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <A1EF1369-1E97-4142-B5CE-FE54EA743391@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <i2u693254b91005071317h2264b347y3777331fda4a6da8@mail.gmail.com>

http://friendfeed.com/cpan has a realtime CPAN updates, and FriendFeed
provides a way to search a group order by date, e.g.
http://friendfeed.com/search?q=XML&group=cpan


On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Michael Friedman
<friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Is there a way to search CPAN and sort the results by date?
>
> I'm tired of searching for something at http://search.cpan.org and getting modules from 1996 as the top hits when something from 2010 on page 3 is what I really want.
>
>
>



-- 
Tatsuhiko Miyagawa

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri May  7 13:42:53 2010
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 13:42:53 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] PL/Parrot,
	a DSL construction kit for PostgreSQL
In-Reply-To: <g2nad28918e1005071216ybf90f907p61bf9f4883bedb02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <g2nad28918e1005071216ybf90f907p61bf9f4883bedb02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BE47B4D.8020306@agliodbs.com>

On 5/7/10 12:16 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
> What do you get when you cross a parrot with an elephant?  Find out!
> PL/Parrot is a DSL construction kit for PostgreSQL, and much, much
> more.  Stay tuned for more details.  David Fetter will give us the ins
> and outs of PL/Parrot.

Can I invite the other SFPUG to this meeting?


-- 
                                  -- Josh Berkus
                                     PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
                                     http://www.pgexperts.com

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Fri May  7 14:05:38 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 14:05:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] sorting CPAN search by date
In-Reply-To: <i2u693254b91005071317h2264b347y3777331fda4a6da8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A1EF1369-1E97-4142-B5CE-FE54EA743391@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<i2u693254b91005071317h2264b347y3777331fda4a6da8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F91BD66D-15D6-4BEB-B300-F23E20F42D2B@highwire.stanford.edu>

That FriendFeed service is cool, but it doesn't go back very far. What if the latest module that matches my keyword is in 2008?

Thanks, though!
-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On May 7, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa wrote:

> http://friendfeed.com/cpan has a realtime CPAN updates, and FriendFeed
> provides a way to search a group order by date, e.g.
> http://friendfeed.com/search?q=XML&group=cpan
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Michael Friedman
> <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> Is there a way to search CPAN and sort the results by date?
>> 
>> I'm tired of searching for something at http://search.cpan.org and getting modules from 1996 as the top hits when something from 2010 on page 3 is what I really want.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tatsuhiko Miyagawa


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri May  7 15:40:16 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 15:40:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] PL/Parrot,
	a DSL construction kit for 	PostgreSQL
In-Reply-To: <4BE47B4D.8020306@agliodbs.com>
References: <g2nad28918e1005071216ybf90f907p61bf9f4883bedb02@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BE47B4D.8020306@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <y2nad28918e1005071540h52e8c5c4m35c19b2813563f86@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:
> On 5/7/10 12:16 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
>> What do you get when you cross a parrot with an elephant? ?Find out!
>> PL/Parrot is a DSL construction kit for PostgreSQL, and much, much
>> more. ?Stay tuned for more details. ?David Fetter will give us the ins
>> and outs of PL/Parrot.
>
> Can I invite the other SFPUG to this meeting?

Be my guest, but please remind them to RSVP at meetup so we can get an
accurate count.

From matt at lanier.org  Mon May 10 10:39:46 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] [ job ] looking for LAMP stack developers
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1005101037170.15459@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

hey folks-

I'm looking for some LAMP stack developers for a gaming opportunity in the 
peninsula.  If you're looking, drop me a line.  I can give more details 
privately.

thanks, all-

m@

-- 
Matthew D. P. K. Lanier

From eruby at knowledgematters.net  Tue May 11 11:11:50 2010
From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:11:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
Message-ID: <AANLkTilPTW7y4TisktSPntxKvmxUfccAZrRYFXTlxcTG@mail.gmail.com>

One more reason why I use Perl...

Unescape HTML special characters from a String
http://www.codecodex.com/wiki/index.php?title=Unescape_HTML_special_characters_from_a_String

(Scroll to the bottom for the Perl version)

-- 
Earl Ruby
http://earlruby.org/

From extasia at extasia.org  Tue May 11 11:17:14 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:17:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilPTW7y4TisktSPntxKvmxUfccAZrRYFXTlxcTG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilPTW7y4TisktSPntxKvmxUfccAZrRYFXTlxcTG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin1lejskUefzJXotcbrwAnQa_IDhe2-BHtU9tB8@mail.gmail.com>

wouldn't the comparison be more fair if they compared
HTML::Entities::decode_entities() source with the c++ and java
versions?

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Earl Ruby <eruby at knowledgematters.net> wrote:
> One more reason why I use Perl...
>
> Unescape HTML special characters from a String
> http://www.codecodex.com/wiki/index.php?title=Unescape_HTML_special_characters_from_a_String
>
> (Scroll to the bottom for the Perl version)

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Tue May 11 11:20:02 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:20:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilPTW7y4TisktSPntxKvmxUfccAZrRYFXTlxcTG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilPTW7y4TisktSPntxKvmxUfccAZrRYFXTlxcTG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D88E2950-3CD9-46CA-9963-475DB193F5B9@highwire.stanford.edu>

Before you get too excited, there are existing packages that do this for Java & C, you know. For example: 
	http://commons.apache.org/lang/api/org/apache/commons/lang/StringEscapeUtils.html

Those other languages don't *have* to write the routine from scratch either.
-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On May 11, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Earl Ruby wrote:

> One more reason why I use Perl...
> 
> Unescape HTML special characters from a String
> http://www.codecodex.com/wiki/index.php?title=Unescape_HTML_special_characters_from_a_String
> 
> (Scroll to the bottom for the Perl version)
> 
> -- 
> Earl Ruby
> http://earlruby.org/
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From david at fetter.org  Tue May 11 11:24:42 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:24:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin1lejskUefzJXotcbrwAnQa_IDhe2-BHtU9tB8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilPTW7y4TisktSPntxKvmxUfccAZrRYFXTlxcTG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin1lejskUefzJXotcbrwAnQa_IDhe2-BHtU9tB8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100511182442.GF17670@fetter.org>

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:17:14AM -0700, David Alban wrote:
> wouldn't the comparison be more fair if they compared
> HTML::Entities::decode_entities() source with the c++ and java
> versions?

I don't think so.

CPAN is Perl's killer application, and no other language I know of has
anything really comparable to it.  Yes, I'm aware CPAN has warts, but
what other language even *has* a "C*AN" that is the standard source of
reusable code?  "Is the" (existence and uniqueness) is crucial in this
assessment.

People are working on a CPGAN, but that's at least a couple of years
in the future, and it's modeled explicitly on CPAN.

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From dat1965 at yahoo.com  Tue May 11 11:45:30 2010
From: dat1965 at yahoo.com (David Thompson)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:45:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <20100511182442.GF17670@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

--- On Tue, 5/11/10, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> From: David Fetter <david at fetter.org>
> -0700, David Alban wrote:
> > wouldn't the comparison be more fair if they compared
> > HTML::Entities::decode_entities() source with the c++
> > and java versions?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> CPAN is Perl's killer application, and no other
> language I know of has anything really comparable
> to it.

Exactly.  I agree completely.

It is clear that C/C++ and other languages lack
The One extremely well known all-encompassing
web repository (on the huge scale of CPAN) that
is the absolute de facto go-to location for all
reusable code for all the world for all
programmers.

Only Perl has this scale.  CPAN is a monster
compared to the nearest code repositories of
other languages.


From not.com at gmail.com  Tue May 11 12:23:05 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 12:23:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <20100511182442.GF17670@fetter.org>
	<183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinNoyEnb3Qp-IT50xi9zvfO18kvzt02UdAYWdDQ@mail.gmail.com>

My take is that if it's a core module distributed with all modern
Perl's it's a valid comparison, but HTML::Entities isn't in there.
Still it's OK to heart perl for it's easy-to-find libs.

But even the C++/Java aren't equivalent, the C++ knows more properties
than the Java and decodes numeric/hex escapes.

(I need to be pulling music for my radio show, not reading email...
kzsu 1-4pm if you're within range of Palo Alto)

From james at ActionMessage.com  Tue May 11 12:49:08 2010
From: james at ActionMessage.com (James Briggs)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 12:49:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <20100511182442.GF17670@fetter.org>
	<183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100511194400.M5302@actionmessage.com>

On Tue, 11 May 2010 11:45:30 -0700 (PDT), David Thompson wrote
> --- On Tue, 5/11/10, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> > From: David Fetter <david at fetter.org>
> > -0700, David Alban wrote:
> > > wouldn't the comparison be more fair if they compared
> > > HTML::Entities::decode_entities() source with the c++
> > > and java versions?
> > 
> > I don't think so.
> > 
> > CPAN is Perl's killer application, and no other
> > language I know of has anything really comparable
> > to it.
> 
> Exactly.  I agree completely.
> 
> It is clear that C/C++ and other languages lack
> The One extremely well known all-encompassing
> web repository (on the huge scale of CPAN) that
> is the absolute de facto go-to location for all
> reusable code for all the world for all
> programmers.
> 
> Only Perl has this scale.  CPAN is a monster
> compared to the nearest code repositories of
> other languages.

Well, CPAN is definitely awesome in many respects.

But most Python and PHP programmers are pretty happy with their expansive included libraries,
and C++ programmers have Boost, which basically everybody uses these days:

http://www.boost.org/

CPAN's drawbacks include 10 of everything, and alarmingly poor IPv6 support.

James.


From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Tue May 11 13:30:07 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 13:30:07 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinNoyEnb3Qp-IT50xi9zvfO18kvzt02UdAYWdDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100511182442.GF17670@fetter.org>
	<183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTinNoyEnb3Qp-IT50xi9zvfO18kvzt02UdAYWdDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201005112030.o4BKU7ZK054021@kzsu.stanford.edu>


yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:

> My take is that if it's a core module distributed with all modern
> Perl's it's a valid comparison, but HTML::Entities isn't in there.

That was the first thing that I checked, also, but presence-in-core
varies in importance to different people.  In an ideal world, it
wouldn't matter at all, and anything you want off of CPAN should be
available in an instant (to a developer) and after a brief vetting
process (in live code).

When working on my own projects, I'm essentially in that ideal
world, but working for someone else, it's often not-so-ideal...

And even when developing code for use on CPAN it's a matter of some
debate on whether it's a good idea to rely on a lot of other CPAN
modules.  A lot of people out there still try to install perl
modules manually tracing the dependencies themselves.

> Still it's OK to heart perl for it's easy-to-find libs.

And it would be even eaisier if they were easier to find.


From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Tue May 11 13:42:07 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 13:42:07 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinNoyEnb3Qp-IT50xi9zvfO18kvzt02UdAYWdDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100511182442.GF17670@fetter.org>
	<183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTinNoyEnb3Qp-IT50xi9zvfO18kvzt02UdAYWdDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201005112042.o4BKg7Jw054175@kzsu.stanford.edu>


yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:

> (I need to be pulling music for my radio show, not reading email...
> kzsu 1-4pm if you're within range of Palo Alto)

#!/usr/bin/perl
# hear                      doom at kzsu.stanford.edu
#                           May 18, 2004
#                     Rev:  May 11, 2010

use warnings;
use strict;
$|=1;

my %runstring =
  (
   kzsu     =>   'vlc http://kzsulive.stanford.edu/audio/kzsu-1-24.m3u',
   kzsu2    =>   'vlc http://kzsulive.stanford.edu/audio/kzsu-2-24.m3u',
   kfjc     =>   'vlc http://netcast2.kfjc.org:8972/listen.pls',
   kfjc2    =>   'vlc http://netcast4.kfjc.org:8974/listen.pls',
   kfjc3    =>   'vlc http://netcast6.kfjc.org/listen.pls',
   wusb     =>   "vlc http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8080",
   wbai     =>   "vlc http://stream.wbai.org:8000/24k.ogg.m3u",
   wbai2    =>   "vlc http://stream.wbai.org:8000/24k.m3u",
   wbai3    =>   "vlc http://stream.wbai.org:8000/64k.m3u",
   wrek     =>   "vlc http://www.wrek.org/stream/meta/www.WREK.org_live_24.m3u",
   wfmu     =>   "vlc http://www.wfmu.org/wfmu32.m3u",
   kdvs     =>   "vlc http://169.237.101.62:8000/kdvs128vorbis",
   kpfa     =>   "vlc http://kpfa.org/streams/kpfa_24k.m3u",
   kcea     =>   "vlc http://69.12.217.101:8000/listen.pls",
   kcea2    =>   "vlc http://69.12.217.101:8000/",
   wrct     =>   "vlc http://stream.wrct.org:8000/wrct-lo.ogg.m3u",
   wrct2    =>   "vlc http://stream.wrct.org:8000/wrct-hi.ogg.m3u",
   wrct3    =>   "vlc http://stream.wrct.org:8000/wrct-lo.mp3.m3u",
   wrct4    =>   "vlc http://stream.wrct.org:8000/wrct-hi.mp3.m3u",
   wobc     =>   "vlc http://132.162.36.191:8000/listen.m3u",
   wnyu     =>   "vlc http://wnyu.org/wnyu32.m3u",
   wnyu2    =>   "vlc http://wnyu.org/wnyu128.m3u",
   wkcr     =>   "vlc http://kanga.college.columbia.edu:8000/listen.pls",
   kexp     =>   "vlc http://kexp-mp3-1.cac.washington.edu:8000/listen.pls",
   kexp2    =>   "vlc http://kexp-mp3-128k.cac.washington.edu:8000/listen.pls",
  );
# flash based audio ghetto
#   klaw     =>   "",
#   ksjs     =>   "",
#   kxlu     =>   "",  live365: flash *and* javascript
#   kspc     =>   "",
#   kcrw     =>   "",  #  how the hell does *this* station work?

my $input = shift;
$input = '    ' unless ( $input );
if ( not exists $runstring{ $input } ) {
  print "Station id: $input is not recognized.  Usage: hear <station_id>.\n";
  print "Allowed ids are:\n";
  print join ' ', sort keys %runstring;
  print "\n";
  exit;
}

exec( $runstring{ $input } );

From not.com at gmail.com  Wed May 12 10:36:33 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:36:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] My perl idiom/"I like" of the moment
Message-ID: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>

I'm converting a bunch of database scripts from one platform to
another (Teradata -> Netezza). It's a combination of edits that
require 0 thought vs some that require a little thought. At the start
of it I wrote a script "bt2nz" to automate the changes that required
the least thought, eg

  s/select \s+date,\s+time\b/select current_date, current_time/gi;

It reads input using a "while (<>)" loop and prints to stdout, so I
can pass it a script at a time and pipe it to "less" to check for
sanity:

$ bt2nz report_adinfinitum.sql | less

What's making me happy is quite minor but here it is, after checking
that all is well I can replace the file contents like so
$ perl -i bt2nz report_adinfinitum.sql

and no move, rename fuss. Then I go edit the file for the bits that
require human smarts.

If I trust my script enough I can type perl -i bt2nz *.sql (and since
everything is under version control, why not)... or perl -i.bak bt2nz
*.sql to keep backups

- To be honest, it's my little script making my life easier that I'm
happy with, more than the -i option... but having a use for it outside
of a one-liner is pretty nifty too.

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed May 12 11:11:06 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:11:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] My perl idiom/"I like" of the moment
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201005121811.o4CIB6rg073197@kzsu.stanford.edu>


I've got a script I call "deep_rename" that takes a list of "s///g"
commands, and crunches through them applying them to everything in
a tree, including the file names.

I've thought it would be funny to give a lighting talk about it some
time, where the joke would be that it's too frightening to want to use
it very often.

In practice, something like your approach where you can monitor
what it's doing is usually more practical.

Doing it inside your editor would seem to make sense, but there's
usually problems with that...  For example, there's the emacs
query-replace (M-%), and query-replace-regexp (C-M-%), but then you
don't get to use perl regexps, and if you've got more than a few
transformations to do on each file, they'd be too awkward.
(The "query" commands don't work well in keystroke macros, either.)


From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed May 12 11:17:56 2010
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:17:56 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] My perl idiom/"I like" of the moment
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>
	(yary's message of "Wed, 12 May 2010 10:36:33 -0700")
References: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <868w7pf0h7.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "yary" == yary  <not.com at gmail.com> writes:

yary> $ perl -i bt2nz report_adinfinitum.sql

I think you want "perl -pi bt2nz", or else nothing gets printed and your
file is empty.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Wed May 12 11:25:50 2010
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 21:25:50 +0300
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <20100511194400.M5302@actionmessage.com>
References: <20100511182442.GF17670@fetter.org>
	<183023.41275.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<20100511194400.M5302@actionmessage.com>
Message-ID: <201005122125.50480.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

Hi all,

On Tuesday 11 May 2010 22:49:08 James Briggs wrote:
> On Tue, 11 May 2010 11:45:30 -0700 (PDT), David Thompson wrote
> 
> > --- On Tue, 5/11/10, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> > > From: David Fetter <david at fetter.org>
> > > 
> > > -0700, David Alban wrote:
> > > > wouldn't the comparison be more fair if they compared
> > > > HTML::Entities::decode_entities() source with the c++
> > > > and java versions?
> > > 
> > > I don't think so.
> > > 
> > > CPAN is Perl's killer application, and no other
> > > language I know of has anything really comparable
> > > to it.
> > 
> > Exactly.  I agree completely.
> > 
> > It is clear that C/C++ and other languages lack
> > The One extremely well known all-encompassing
> > web repository (on the huge scale of CPAN) that
> > is the absolute de facto go-to location for all
> > reusable code for all the world for all
> > programmers.
> > 
> > Only Perl has this scale.  CPAN is a monster
> > compared to the nearest code repositories of
> > other languages.
> 
> Well, CPAN is definitely awesome in many respects.
> 
> But most Python and PHP programmers are pretty happy with their expansive
> included libraries, 

Yes, but you can often find stuff on CPAN that isn't present in the shipped-in 
("batteries included") library of either Python or PHP, while they tend to 
have lesser halo libraries. I still recall having to register at an obscure 
download site, get a confirmation email in order to download some PHP code for 
implementing MIME handling because there wasn't anything better. (Don't know 
why their developer had not used SourceForge.net back then, which does not 
require registration to download the goods, but that was his choice). 

> and C++ programmers have Boost, which basically
> everybody uses these days:
> 
> http://www.boost.org/
> 

Boost is not necessarily synonymous with convenience libraries for C and C++. 
I've collected a list of similar libraries here (some of them written in ANSI 
C:

http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/portability-libs/

Boost has several major drawbacks including lack of ABI backwards 
compatibility (also possibly API backwards compatibility). I also have a small 
demonstration program that a correspondent wrote that is written in C++ using 
pthreads which works fine when one uses only the C-derived printf()'s and 
hangs after a short while after replacing them all with std::cout (!). When I 
noted that problem, someone referred me to a blog post on an obscure Ubuntu 
forum where it is explained that std::cout has indeed a problem with multi-
threading. It is possible other libraries for C and C++ are more reliable than 
Boost or even the standard C++ libraries.

> CPAN's drawbacks include 10 of everything, and alarmingly poor IPv6
> support.

Well, I'd rather have 10 alternatives than zero as is often the case in other 
languages. CPAN's strength is in being open for every random Joe or Jane to 
upload their code there, so while there's a lot of junk, there's also a lot of 
quality code. Some people recently started the "Rethinking CPAN" effort to 
create better ways to find something of quality on CPAN:

http://groups.google.com/group/rethinking-cpan

There's been relatively little activity on materialising all the ideas (some 
of which are pretty good) but, nevertheless, with some guidance people can 
know how to find quality distributions on CPAN:

http://www.catalyzed.org/2009/07/finding-stuff-on-the-cpan.html

Regarding IPv6 - yes, this is a known problem. As someone who adopted 
http://search.cpan.org/dist/IO-Socket-INET6/ in order to fix SpamAssassin on 
Mandriva, and is otherwise relatively clueless about the details of working 
with the Berkeley Sockets API, it has caused me a lot of pain. Some people 
told me they want it to be IPv6-only, but this is impossible to do now because 
its documentation explicitly says it handles either that or IPv4, and changing 
it to IPv6-only will break backwards compatibility. 

Furthermore, a recent update which aimed to make IO-Socket-INET6 better 
perform on OpenBSD, has broken my Mojolicious app and the Mojolicious test 
suite, and I had to gradually reduce the Mojolicious code into a self-
contained IO-Socket-INET6 reproducing recipe, which I posted and was fixed 
(though the Mojolicious developers implied they had to hack around other IO-
Socket-INET6 introduced bugs, which I would prefer if they filed IO-S-INET6 
bugs for. I'm not sure about that.).

IO-Socket-INET6 also routinely fails tests on many platforms (possibly due to 
lack of good IPv6 support), and I'd prefer to keep it that way so people will 
know if it works them (and meanwhile have to suffer through the many failures 
on CPAN testers).

And finally IO-Socket-INET6 has some open bugs, that with some of them, I may 
lack the skills to properly deal with.

Fun, fun, fun.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/ways_to_do_it.html

God considered inflicting XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but then
decided against it because he thought it would be too evil.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

From not.com at gmail.com  Wed May 12 11:39:54 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:39:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] My perl idiom/"I like" of the moment
In-Reply-To: <868w7pf0h7.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
References: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>
	<868w7pf0h7.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinT5knA9norhqxKG8FUmwoSuQ5eWsIYbzLhHH9P@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Randal L. Schwartz
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "yary" == yary  <not.com at gmail.com> writes:
>
> yary> $ perl -i bt2nz report_adinfinitum.sql
>
> I think you want "perl -pi bt2nz", or else nothing gets printed and your
> file is empty.

That would be the case if bt2nz was a list of s/// but it ends with
"print" (and has some additional logic). It's been working in practice
as listed.


On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Doing it inside your editor would seem to make sense, but there's
> usually problems with that...  For example, there's the emacs
> query-replace (M-%), and query-replace-regexp (C-M-%), but then you
> don't get to use perl regexps, and if you've got more than a few
> transformations to do on each file, they'd be too awkward.

emacs has "shell-command-on-region" M-|
or a custom keybinding in vim

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed May 12 11:43:13 2010
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:43:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] My perl idiom/"I like" of the moment
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinT5knA9norhqxKG8FUmwoSuQ5eWsIYbzLhHH9P@mail.gmail.com>
	(yary's message of "Wed, 12 May 2010 11:39:54 -0700")
References: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>
	<868w7pf0h7.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
	<AANLkTinT5knA9norhqxKG8FUmwoSuQ5eWsIYbzLhHH9P@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86zl05dkqm.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "yary" == yary  <not.com at gmail.com> writes:

yary> That would be the case if bt2nz was a list of s/// but it ends with
yary> "print" (and has some additional logic). It's been working in practice
yary> as listed.

Ahh, you hadn't included that in your description in a way that it
registered for me.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed May 12 16:32:02 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:32:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] My perl idiom/"I like" of the moment
In-Reply-To: <201005121811.o4CIB6rg073197@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201005121811.o4CIB6rg073197@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinXzXuhLC60wKzMeBz10gnkTnD0u8TsacE3lYf_@mail.gmail.com>

Check out this awesome Windows rename app,

http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/Screenshots.php

Now there's a UI you wouldn't want to run into on a dark night!

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:11, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> I've got a script I call "deep_rename" that takes a list of "s///g"
> commands, and crunches through them applying them to everything in
> a tree, including the file names.
>
> I've thought it would be funny to give a lighting talk about it some
> time, where the joke would be that it's too frightening to want to use
> it very often.
>
> In practice, something like your approach where you can monitor
> what it's doing is usually more practical.
>
> Doing it inside your editor would seem to make sense, but there's
> usually problems with that... ?For example, there's the emacs
> query-replace (M-%), and query-replace-regexp (C-M-%), but then you
> don't get to use perl regexps, and if you've got more than a few
> transformations to do on each file, they'd be too awkward.
> (The "query" commands don't work well in keystroke macros, either.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From bob.goolsby at gmail.com  Wed May 12 16:58:44 2010
From: bob.goolsby at gmail.com (Bob goolsby)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:58:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] My perl idiom/"I like" of the moment
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinXzXuhLC60wKzMeBz10gnkTnD0u8TsacE3lYf_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimtujRHunhy2UeTNH5c1cx6uV3uc3r2axdPL2wI@mail.gmail.com>
	<201005121811.o4CIB6rg073197@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTinXzXuhLC60wKzMeBz10gnkTnD0u8TsacE3lYf_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin630DDiIOidZ9w9LyjEYdJO5NXWHUGELGEioPC@mail.gmail.com>

News For You -- I don't like looking at it in daylight, much less in a
dark alley.  Yet another UI designed by someone who never had to use
it, no doubt.


B

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Paul Makepeace
<Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> Check out this awesome Windows rename app,
>
> http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/Screenshots.php
>
> Now there's a UI you wouldn't want to run into on a dark night!
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:11, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I've got a script I call "deep_rename" that takes a list of "s///g"
>> commands, and crunches through them applying them to everything in
>> a tree, including the file names.
>>
>> I've thought it would be funny to give a lighting talk about it some
>> time, where the joke would be that it's too frightening to want to use
>> it very often.
>>
>> In practice, something like your approach where you can monitor
>> what it's doing is usually more practical.
>>
>> Doing it inside your editor would seem to make sense, but there's
>> usually problems with that... ?For example, there's the emacs
>> query-replace (M-%), and query-replace-regexp (C-M-%), but then you
>> don't get to use perl regexps, and if you've got more than a few
>> transformations to do on each file, they'd be too awkward.
>> (The "query" commands don't work well in keystroke macros, either.)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>



-- 

Bob Goolsby
bob.goolsby at gmail.com

From eruby at knowledgematters.net  Thu May 13 17:38:40 2010
From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 17:38:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] One more reason why I use Perl...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin1lejskUefzJXotcbrwAnQa_IDhe2-BHtU9tB8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilPTW7y4TisktSPntxKvmxUfccAZrRYFXTlxcTG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin1lejskUefzJXotcbrwAnQa_IDhe2-BHtU9tB8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilKzywS0KfIersPzUVYl-31i8D_3saCne3Ricwu@mail.gmail.com>

Might be more fair, wouldn't be as funny.

Guess I need to start using the [funny] tag in the subject line.  Nine
responses, all serious.

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:17 AM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:
> wouldn't the comparison be more fair if they compared
> HTML::Entities::decode_entities() source with the c++ and java
> versions?

-- 
Earl Ruby
http://earlruby.org/

From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Fri May 14 13:23:35 2010
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 13:23:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Release Engineer (Linux/Perl/...),
	San Francisco (SOMA, near	CalTrain)
Message-ID: <20100514132335.48685a53xmamcu4g@webmail.rawbw.com>

Release Engineer (Linux/Perl/...), San Francisco (SOMA, near CalTrain)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Release Engineer

BabyCenter is the leading destination on the Internet for new and
expectant parents, reaching over 7 million parents each month.  We have
a significant technical infrastructure consisting of 20+ public web
properties, multiple code release per week and numerous development
teams.  Our systems must support over 7 million page views per day
while maintaining 99.99% availability.

We are looking for someone that:
* Is a real team player, with leadership ability
* Is a smart, agile, flexible thinker; knows what s/he thinks and why
* Is a clear and concise communicator in both written and verbal forms
* Is outgoing, proactive, extroverted, articulate
* Has a track record of identifying creative and appropriate techniques
   and solutions
* Is a cultural fit for BabyCenter: collaborative, hard working,
   positive attitude, bias for action over analysis, works well in a
   fast-paced environment, multi-tasker, and proactive!

Specific Job Responsibilities:
* Collaborate with Development, Network Operations and QA teams to
   develop and maintain continuous integration and nightly build processes.
* Develop, manage and maintain rollout processes and procedures for
   multiple high availability environments (Development, Integration, QA,
   Staging, Production).
* Administer, manage, maintain and tune source control system
   (Subversion).
* Develop and maintain automated reporting tools relating to
   releases/environments
* Work closely with the engineering team to provide a unified tool set
   for development and release management.
* Maintain and coordinate release calendars including running the daily
   Change Management board meeting.

Required Background:
* 5-8 years working in a Unix/Linux environment
* More than 5 years experience as a System Administrator, Developer or
   Release Engineer

Desired Skills (at a high level of competency):
* General Release Engineering methodologies
* System Automation
* System Monitoring
* Maven/Ant/Continuum/Cruise Control/Subversion
* Perl programming
* Solid understanding of networking concepts
* Excellent verbal and written communication

Desirable Background and skills:
* A degree in computer science or a related field
* Programming background in any applicable language
------------------------------------------------------------------------

benefits, etc.: http://careers.jnj.com/careers/global/rewards/
contact: send resume to: Michael Paoli <michael.paoli at babycenter.com>
see also (may not (yet) be listed):
http://www.babycenter.com/help-aboutus-jobs
http://careers.jnj.com/careers/global/experienced/landing/


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri May 21 10:40:28 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:40:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [marsee@oreilly.com: UG News: *Free to Choose* Ebook
	Deal of the Day. Any O'Reilly ebook. Only $9.99.]
In-Reply-To: <20100521173709.GD5904@mawode.com>
References: <20100521173709.GD5904@mawode.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinIilVEDQNgb4qXcbfvvc3pDgGVuUOgglH_8PBK@mail.gmail.com>

FYI

----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com> -----

Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:11:00 -0700
From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
To: waltman at pobox.com
Subject: UG News: *Free to Choose* Ebook Deal of the Day. Any O'Reilly ebook.
? ? ? ?Only $9.99.

View this information as HTML in your browser, click here:
http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z6npl2nlopb2t8i8nim5bdjs2mapjpvt403296bo

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From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri May 21 11:45:41 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 11:45:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] PL/Parrot, a DSL construction kit for PostgreSQL
Message-ID: <AANLkTim7rg8lXuPf_C374Yut9EDdr8L3VIIjoXwYEVr1@mail.gmail.com>

Just a quick reminder, David Fetter will be speaking on PL/Parrot at
our next meeting this upcoming Tuesday the 25th at 7pm at Six Apart
World Headquarters.

Please RSVP at Meetup:

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/13415730/

@Josh, if you could pass along this reminder to the other SFPUG, that
would be great.

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Sat May 22 17:33:52 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 17:33:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Survey
Message-ID: <AANLkTilNIAndVuZS9iDo6KXnHx0KDqr-8NY_5urDuiFZ@mail.gmail.com>

The new Perl survey is up at http://survey.perlfoundation.org.  Please
note that this url will redirect you to another url that contains the
actual survey.

The results will be posted at the end of the survey under the Creative
Commons license.

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Sat May 22 18:13:58 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 18:13:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Survey
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilNIAndVuZS9iDo6KXnHx0KDqr-8NY_5urDuiFZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilNIAndVuZS9iDo6KXnHx0KDqr-8NY_5urDuiFZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <489A2A0E-E3C3-4024-B160-D7D379368974@highwire.stanford.edu>

Good survey, but long. Give yourself some time (~15 min) to answer it thoroughly. 

Thanks Fred!
-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On May 22, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:

> The new Perl survey is up at http://survey.perlfoundation.org.  Please
> note that this url will redirect you to another url that contains the
> actual survey.
> 
> The results will be posted at the end of the survey under the Creative
> Commons license.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From rdm at cfcl.com  Sun May 23 10:09:09 2010
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 10:09:09 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Invite:  Mighty Ruby Tuesday (May 25, 2010)
Message-ID: <p062309d6c81f10482704@[192.168.1.205]>

If you have some energy left after the PL-Parrot talk, you might think
about attending Mighty Ruby Tuesday.  Apparently, there will be both
DJ-based music and conversation areas and proceeds are going to support
bringin more women into the programming community.

Yeah; it's a Ruby event.  Get over it.

-r


 --- Begin Forward ---

> Mighty Ruby Tuesday (May 25, 2010)
> http://mightyrubytuesday.eventbrite.com
>
> Through our workshops, we have taught over 250 women (and some men) Ruby
> on Rails.  Because of your hard work, there are a growing number of women
> at meetups and more community classes and study groups for the entire
> community.
>
> A critical next step is to make the workshops sustainable -- and we have
> a plan!  There is enthusiastic support from volunteers for the workshops,
> but we need financial support, too. So let's have a really fun time
> raising funds for another year of workshops!
>
> Don't wait... Please buy a ticket now!  Tell everyone you know.
>
> When: Tuesday, May 25th, from 8 p.m. to midnight
>
> Where: Mighty @ 550 15th Street (near Potrero and 16th)
>
> What: Benefit party for the
>
>   http://wiki.railsbridge.org/projects/railsbridge/wiki/Workshops
>   RailsBridge Open Workshop project, with special emphasis on bringing
>   gender equity to the San Francisco Ruby community and beyond
>
> We've lined up two amazing acts so far, the fabulous DJs: Melyss and
> Ellen Ferrato. And we'll be announcing two more in the coming weeks.

 --- End Forward ---

-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, system design

From david at fetter.org  Sun May 23 21:41:47 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 21:41:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Invite:  Mighty Ruby Tuesday (May 25, 2010)
In-Reply-To: <p062309d6c81f10482704@[192.168.1.205]>
References: <p062309d6c81f10482704@[192.168.1.205]>
Message-ID: <20100524044147.GA6739@fetter.org>

On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 10:09:09AM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> If you have some energy left after the PL-Parrot talk, you might think
> about attending Mighty Ruby Tuesday.  Apparently, there will be both
> DJ-based music and conversation areas and proceeds are going to support
> bringin more women into the programming community.
> 
> Yeah; it's a Ruby event.  Get over it.

FWIW, part of PL/Parrot's design goal is to allow inter-language
cooperation :)

Cheers,
David.
> 
> -r
> 
> 
>  --- Begin Forward ---
> 
> > Mighty Ruby Tuesday (May 25, 2010)
> > http://mightyrubytuesday.eventbrite.com
> >
> > Through our workshops, we have taught over 250 women (and some men) Ruby
> > on Rails.  Because of your hard work, there are a growing number of women
> > at meetups and more community classes and study groups for the entire
> > community.
> >
> > A critical next step is to make the workshops sustainable -- and we have
> > a plan!  There is enthusiastic support from volunteers for the workshops,
> > but we need financial support, too. So let's have a really fun time
> > raising funds for another year of workshops!
> >
> > Don't wait... Please buy a ticket now!  Tell everyone you know.
> >
> > When: Tuesday, May 25th, from 8 p.m. to midnight
> >
> > Where: Mighty @ 550 15th Street (near Potrero and 16th)
> >
> > What: Benefit party for the
> >
> >   http://wiki.railsbridge.org/projects/railsbridge/wiki/Workshops
> >   RailsBridge Open Workshop project, with special emphasis on bringing
> >   gender equity to the San Francisco Ruby community and beyond
> >
> > We've lined up two amazing acts so far, the fabulous DJs: Melyss and
> > Ellen Ferrato. And we'll be announcing two more in the coming weeks.
> 
>  --- End Forward ---
> 
> -- 
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841
> 
> Technical editing and writing, programming, system design
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Mon May 24 10:27:13 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 10:27:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Invite: Mighty Ruby Tuesday (May 25, 2010)
In-Reply-To: <20100524044147.GA6739@fetter.org>
References: <p062309d6c81f10482704@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20100524044147.GA6739@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <201005241727.o4OHRD75003967@kzsu.stanford.edu>


David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> Rich Morin wrote:

> > If you have some energy left after the PL-Parrot talk, you might think
> > about attending Mighty Ruby Tuesday.  Apparently, there will be both
> > DJ-based music and conversation areas and proceeds are going to support
> > bringin more women into the programming community.
> >
> > Yeah; it's a Ruby event.  Get over it.
>
> FWIW, part of PL/Parrot's design goal is to allow inter-language
> cooperation :)

How about inter-language cream pie launches?


From david at fetter.org  Mon May 24 10:32:58 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 10:32:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Invite: Mighty Ruby Tuesday (May 25, 2010)
In-Reply-To: <201005241727.o4OHRD75003967@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <p062309d6c81f10482704@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20100524044147.GA6739@fetter.org>
	<201005241727.o4OHRD75003967@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20100524173258.GD4413@fetter.org>

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 10:27:13AM -0700, Joe Brenner wrote:
> 
> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> > Rich Morin wrote:
> 
> > > If you have some energy left after the PL-Parrot talk, you might think
> > > about attending Mighty Ruby Tuesday.  Apparently, there will be both
> > > DJ-based music and conversation areas and proceeds are going to support
> > > bringin more women into the programming community.
> > >
> > > Yeah; it's a Ruby event.  Get over it.
> >
> > FWIW, part of PL/Parrot's design goal is to allow inter-language
> > cooperation :)
> 
> How about inter-language cream pie launches?

Those, too :)

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon May 24 10:36:52 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 10:36:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] PL/Parrot is tomorrow night!
Message-ID: <AANLkTimPgVc80bLU3-Vni_EBvmOE24IUeGMEwUl26f1o@mail.gmail.com>

Please RSVP by 6pm tomorrow if you will be attending.  If you're not
sure, use the 'Maybe' option.  I'll need to have a list of attendees
as a courtesy to our hosts, so please RSVP if you will be there.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/13415730/

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon May 24 10:40:01 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 10:40:01 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Volunteer needed to help out with meeting tomorrow night.
Message-ID: <AANLkTim7xeCrfbFCtQ3yjZLggxMKN2OiZ1hkbg_GHOc9@mail.gmail.com>

If you can help out with the meeting tomorrow night by manning the
door for arrivals, please let me know off list (you'll still get to
see the talk, this is just while people are arriving).  There's a copy
of the 'Perl Hacks' book in it for you as a thank you.  You'll need to
show up about 6:45 pm.

From david at fetter.org  Wed May 26 11:39:00 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:39:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] PL/Parrot
Message-ID: <20100526183900.GC31030@fetter.org>

Folks,

Thanks very much to all who showed up despite rain and traffic, and
sorry the rest didn't make it :)

As promised, I've uploaded the slides to
http://fetter.org/PLParrot_SFPM_20100525.pdf

You can join the fun on irc://irc.freenode.net/plparrot

The mailing list, for now, is pretty low traffic
http://groups.google.com/group/plparrot

The code is at http://github.com/leto/plparrot

Let's crank this up :)

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed May 26 11:42:18 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:42:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] PL/Parrot
In-Reply-To: <20100526183900.GC31030@fetter.org>
References: <20100526183900.GC31030@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-nzrHw0eSxz3HuSybym1xCUzbTzKsxI7--nfP@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for speaking David, we had a good showing.

I didn't think of this until just now, but another interesting parrot
implementation is mod_parrot - http://www.parrot.org/mod_parrot

That has some good examples of perl6 based mod_perl code, as well as
parrot based http handlers as well.

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Thanks very much to all who showed up despite rain and traffic, and
> sorry the rest didn't make it :)
>
> As promised, I've uploaded the slides to
> http://fetter.org/PLParrot_SFPM_20100525.pdf
>
> You can join the fun on irc://irc.freenode.net/plparrot
>
> The mailing list, for now, is pretty low traffic
> http://groups.google.com/group/plparrot
>
> The code is at http://github.com/leto/plparrot
>
> Let's crank this up :)
>
> Cheers,
> David.
> --
> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> Phone: +1 415 235 3778 ?AIM: dfetter666 ?Yahoo!: dfetter
> Skype: davidfetter ? ? ?XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
>
> Remember to vote!
> Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From david at fetter.org  Wed May 26 11:47:41 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:47:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] PL/Parrot
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin-nzrHw0eSxz3HuSybym1xCUzbTzKsxI7--nfP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100526183900.GC31030@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTin-nzrHw0eSxz3HuSybym1xCUzbTzKsxI7--nfP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100526184741.GE31030@fetter.org>

Fred,

I hadn't mentioned too much about mod_parrot specifically because it
was, um, pretty rough around the edges.  I'd mentioned "another
embedding project" a couple of times, and that was it.

Still interesting, though :)

Cheers,
David.

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:42:18AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
> Thanks for speaking David, we had a good showing.
> 
> I didn't think of this until just now, but another interesting parrot
> implementation is mod_parrot - http://www.parrot.org/mod_parrot
> 
> That has some good examples of perl6 based mod_perl code, as well as
> parrot based http handlers as well.
> 
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > Thanks very much to all who showed up despite rain and traffic, and
> > sorry the rest didn't make it :)
> >
> > As promised, I've uploaded the slides to
> > http://fetter.org/PLParrot_SFPM_20100525.pdf
> >
> > You can join the fun on irc://irc.freenode.net/plparrot
> >
> > The mailing list, for now, is pretty low traffic
> > http://groups.google.com/group/plparrot
> >
> > The code is at http://github.com/leto/plparrot
> >
> > Let's crank this up :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David.
> > --
> > David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> > Phone: +1 415 235 3778 ?AIM: dfetter666 ?Yahoo!: dfetter
> > Skype: davidfetter ? ? ?XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> > iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
> >
> > Remember to vote!
> > Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >

-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed May 26 11:56:21 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:56:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] PL/Parrot
In-Reply-To: <20100526184741.GE31030@fetter.org>
References: <20100526183900.GC31030@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTin-nzrHw0eSxz3HuSybym1xCUzbTzKsxI7--nfP@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100526184741.GE31030@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimVKZyc91HTiWFEFTbJ7uNCBc-6MHknMEiOcLM5@mail.gmail.com>

When I saw mod_parrot at YAPC a year or so ago I was pretty impressed.
 Jeff H. showed hello world apache handlers in at least two different
HLLs.  It has a ways to go still but it looked like he had connected
the endpoints (code to user deliver) for a couple of paths.

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:47 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> Fred,
>
> I hadn't mentioned too much about mod_parrot specifically because it
> was, um, pretty rough around the edges. ?I'd mentioned "another
> embedding project" a couple of times, and that was it.
>
> Still interesting, though :)
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:42:18AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
>> Thanks for speaking David, we had a good showing.
>>
>> I didn't think of this until just now, but another interesting parrot
>> implementation is mod_parrot - http://www.parrot.org/mod_parrot
>>
>> That has some good examples of perl6 based mod_perl code, as well as
>> parrot based http handlers as well.
>>
>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
>> > Folks,
>> >
>> > Thanks very much to all who showed up despite rain and traffic, and
>> > sorry the rest didn't make it :)
>> >
>> > As promised, I've uploaded the slides to
>> > http://fetter.org/PLParrot_SFPM_20100525.pdf
>> >
>> > You can join the fun on irc://irc.freenode.net/plparrot
>> >
>> > The mailing list, for now, is pretty low traffic
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/plparrot
>> >
>> > The code is at http://github.com/leto/plparrot
>> >
>> > Let's crank this up :)
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > David.
>> > --
>> > David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
>> > Phone: +1 415 235 3778 ?AIM: dfetter666 ?Yahoo!: dfetter
>> > Skype: davidfetter ? ? ?XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
>> > iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
>> >
>> > Remember to vote!
>> > Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>> >
>
> --
> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> Phone: +1 415 235 3778 ?AIM: dfetter666 ?Yahoo!: dfetter
> Skype: davidfetter ? ? ?XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
>
> Remember to vote!
> Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From david at fetter.org  Wed May 26 11:58:14 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:58:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] PL/Parrot
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimVKZyc91HTiWFEFTbJ7uNCBc-6MHknMEiOcLM5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100526183900.GC31030@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTin-nzrHw0eSxz3HuSybym1xCUzbTzKsxI7--nfP@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100526184741.GE31030@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTimVKZyc91HTiWFEFTbJ7uNCBc-6MHknMEiOcLM5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100526185814.GF31030@fetter.org>

Fred,

By "rough," I meant, "uses secret knowledge of parrot internals" vs.
"uses a well-defined embedding API.

Cheers,
David.

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:56:21AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
> When I saw mod_parrot at YAPC a year or so ago I was pretty impressed.
>  Jeff H. showed hello world apache handlers in at least two different
> HLLs.  It has a ways to go still but it looked like he had connected
> the endpoints (code to user deliver) for a couple of paths.
> 
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:47 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> > Fred,
> >
> > I hadn't mentioned too much about mod_parrot specifically because it
> > was, um, pretty rough around the edges. ?I'd mentioned "another
> > embedding project" a couple of times, and that was it.
> >
> > Still interesting, though :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David.
> >
> > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:42:18AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
> >> Thanks for speaking David, we had a good showing.
> >>
> >> I didn't think of this until just now, but another interesting parrot
> >> implementation is mod_parrot - http://www.parrot.org/mod_parrot
> >>
> >> That has some good examples of perl6 based mod_perl code, as well as
> >> parrot based http handlers as well.
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> >> > Folks,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks very much to all who showed up despite rain and traffic, and
> >> > sorry the rest didn't make it :)
> >> >
> >> > As promised, I've uploaded the slides to
> >> > http://fetter.org/PLParrot_SFPM_20100525.pdf
> >> >
> >> > You can join the fun on irc://irc.freenode.net/plparrot
> >> >
> >> > The mailing list, for now, is pretty low traffic
> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/plparrot
> >> >
> >> > The code is at http://github.com/leto/plparrot
> >> >
> >> > Let's crank this up :)
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > David.
> >> > --
> >> > David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> >> > Phone: +1 415 235 3778 ?AIM: dfetter666 ?Yahoo!: dfetter
> >> > Skype: davidfetter ? ? ?XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> >> > iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
> >> >
> >> > Remember to vote!
> >> > Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> >> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> >> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >> >
> >
> > --
> > David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> > Phone: +1 415 235 3778 ?AIM: dfetter666 ?Yahoo!: dfetter
> > Skype: davidfetter ? ? ?XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> > iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
> >
> > Remember to vote!
> > Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >

-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate