From matt at lanier.org  Mon Aug  2 14:47:38 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] find latest version of module from cpan
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

folks-

i'm looking for a way, either by probing cpan.perl.org via lwp, or via the 
cpan shell, to find out the latest available version of a module 
programatically.  constraints are:

(*) module is not installed, nor will be (long story)

(*) needs to run without human intervention.

i've looked in the CPAN::Shell docs and don't see an interface that would 
lead me in the right direction.  Any hints?

m@

-- 
Matthew D. P. K. Lanier

From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Mon Aug  2 14:53:34 2010
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:53:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] find latest version of module from cpan
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikCZZNG6-qsodtCXNNvy210dziU93PeDvzxuBXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
> folks-
>
> i'm looking for a way, either by probing cpan.perl.org via lwp, or via the
> cpan shell, to find out the latest available version of a module
> programatically. ?constraints are:

If you only need to know the latest version, I generally just use the
interface setup for cpanm out at:

    http://cpanmetadb.appspot.com/

                                        -Chris
-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Mon Aug  2 19:44:51 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 19:44:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] find latest version of module from cpan
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinMhDy+jMcORpMGA-hk0ywoffD5YE0-ciArJcVp@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 14:47, Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
> folks-
>
> i'm looking for a way, either by probing cpan.perl.org via lwp, or via the
> cpan shell, to find out the latest available version of a module
> programatically. ?constraints are:

Second field after the first para in,
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/modules/02packages.details.txt
http://www.cpan.org/modules/02packages.details.txt

*pokes around*

print "$module latest version is ",
  CPAN::Shell->expand(Module => $module)->cpan_version;

seems to work...

Paul

From matt at lanier.org  Mon Aug  2 20:06:19 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 20:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] find latest version of module from cpan
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinMhDy+jMcORpMGA-hk0ywoffD5YE0-ciArJcVp@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<AANLkTinMhDy+jMcORpMGA-hk0ywoffD5YE0-ciArJcVp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008022006110.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

w00t!

m@

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Paul Makepeace wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 14:47, Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
>> folks-
>>
>> i'm looking for a way, either by probing cpan.perl.org via lwp, or via the
>> cpan shell, to find out the latest available version of a module
>> programatically. ?constraints are:
>
> Second field after the first para in,
> http://www.perl.com/CPAN/modules/02packages.details.txt
> http://www.cpan.org/modules/02packages.details.txt
>
> *pokes around*
>
> print "$module latest version is ",
>  CPAN::Shell->expand(Module => $module)->cpan_version;
>
> seems to work...
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Mon Aug  2 20:33:04 2010
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:33:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] find latest version of module from cpan
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	(Matthew Lanier's message of "Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:47:38 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008021444380.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <861vagl6a7.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> writes:

Matthew> folks-
Matthew> i'm looking for a way, either by probing cpan.perl.org via lwp, or via the
Matthew> cpan shell, to find out the latest available version of a module
Matthew> programatically.

Sounds like what my mini cpan does, implemented as CPAN::Mini.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Aug  3 13:34:30 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:34:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
Message-ID: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>

All opinions welcome regarding my proposal for a grant from The Perl Foundation:

http://news.perlfoundation.org/2010/08/2010q3-grant-proposal-sfpm-fun.html

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug  4 12:17:27 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:17:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] So how'd Rakudo Star go?
Message-ID: <201008041917.o74JHRnr062640@kzsu.stanford.edu>


How did the Rakudo Star installfest go?  I was sorry I couldn't
be there, myself...

I see G?bor Szab? is doing a series of perl6 tutorials as
screencasts.  They're little bite-size demos, less than 10
minutes each:

  http://szabgab.com/perl6.html

(And he's got ogv and avi's up, not just flash.)



From josh at agliodbs.com  Wed Aug  4 12:53:19 2010
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:53:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>

On 8/3/10 1:34 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
> All opinions welcome regarding my proposal for a grant from The Perl Foundation:
> 
> http://news.perlfoundation.org/2010/08/2010q3-grant-proposal-sfpm-fun.html

Hmmm.  Have you attempted to get food sponsors for the meetings?  We've
had pretty good luck doing so for the other SFPUG.

One of the things we do which is different with the other SFPUG is that
we allow some commercial presentations (i.e. dot-coms presenting their
stuff).  This both fills our calendar and makes them willing to cough up
for food a couple times a year.  Worth considering.

Also, frankly, you could ask us for more $$$.  I don't put in more
because I only get asked for $7 or $10.

Now, if you really wanted to kick off more local Perl activity, I might
suggest doing some kind of Perl Day ... a day-long miniconf here in SF.
 That might also be more palatable for TPF to sponsor.

-- 
                                  -- Josh Berkus
                                     PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
                                     http://www.pgexperts.com

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug  4 13:21:03 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:21:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <201008042021.o74KL3Jt063695@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:

> One of the things we do which is different with the other SFPUG is that
> we allow some commercial presentations (i.e. dot-coms presenting their
> stuff).  This both fills our calendar and makes them willing to cough up
> for food a couple times a year.  Worth considering.

Hm... it's not like we have a rule against it or anything.  I suppose we
haven't made a lot of effort to sell it as a promotional opportunity.

> Now, if you really wanted to kick off more local Perl activity, I might
> suggest doing some kind of Perl Day ... a day-long miniconf here in SF.
>  That might also be more palatable for TPF to sponsor.

It's a thought, but even with some funding it's bound to be a lot of
work...  unless anyone else wants to step up, I think with present
leadership we're probably a year or so away from even thinking about
a YAYAPC.

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug  4 14:00:31 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:00:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikuUYoqQ3mw-fw+enmvM6iGip59r4bRxvoLMdhk@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:
> On 8/3/10 1:34 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
>> All opinions welcome regarding my proposal for a grant from The Perl Foundation:
>>
>> http://news.perlfoundation.org/2010/08/2010q3-grant-proposal-sfpm-fun.html
>
> Hmmm. ?Have you attempted to get food sponsors for the meetings? ?We've
> had pretty good luck doing so for the other SFPUG.

I've put a few calls out for sponsors but haven't gotten responses
back yet.  We've been growing very rapidly over the past 18 months,
and most of our resources have been put towards keeping up with that
growth.

> One of the things we do which is different with the other SFPUG is that
> we allow some commercial presentations (i.e. dot-coms presenting their
> stuff). ?This both fills our calendar and makes them willing to cough up
> for food a couple times a year. ?Worth considering.

I'd be open to this possibility, but I haven't seen any interesting
commercial offerings.  If you are reading this, and are part of a
company that wants to do something like this, please contact Joe and I
off list.

> Also, frankly, you could ask us for more $$$. ?I don't put in more
> because I only get asked for $7 or $10.

That would help cover the costs of the existing meetings, but the real
goal here is to grow the group and reach out to those other
programmers who don't know about us.  And getting sponsors to cover
the meeting costs is part of that plan; I'd rather have sponsors get
value from the audience and venue and pull in more people rather than
have to charge more.

> Now, if you really wanted to kick off more local Perl activity, I might
> suggest doing some kind of Perl Day ... a day-long miniconf here in SF.
> ?That might also be more palatable for TPF to sponsor.

Part of the grant would go towards activities like this.  But that
takes funding.  I think our proposal is right up the alley up a grant
that TPF would want to sponsor; a fast growing successful user group,
which needs help in getting to the level of some of the other local
groups such as Ruby (2k members) and PHP (1.5k members).  At those
levels, it is much more feasible to find sponsors who can make the
group self sufficient.

A lot of this proposal centers around growing the user group, and
local Perl community.

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug  4 14:06:23 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:06:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] So how'd Rakudo Star go?
In-Reply-To: <201008041917.o74JHRnr062640@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008041917.o74JHRnr062640@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikp+aaHc7OwcWK-sfwyW8=0NTPs5Z52CwoTg=fw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> How did the Rakudo Star installfest go? ?I was sorry I couldn't
> be there, myself...

Pretty well; we got a couple of perl6 installs.  There was a fair
amount of chatter also, which is great, I think we don't have enough
time for that at meetings.

We went out for some great tacos and burritos.  Also, I'll have the
rest of the Perl6 cheatsheets to hand out at the next meeting.

>
> I see G?bor Szab? is doing a series of perl6 tutorials as
> screencasts. ?They're little bite-size demos, less than 10
> minutes each:
>
> ?http://szabgab.com/perl6.html
>
> (And he's got ogv and avi's up, not just flash.)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Aug  4 14:32:03 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:32:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <201008042021.o74KL3Jt063695@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
	<201008042021.o74KL3Jt063695@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinYV76T30EsTP35WrR31DudeQcMVdD-RTDb8Jhi@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 13:21, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> It's a thought, but even with some funding it's bound to be a lot of
> work... ?unless anyone else wants to step up, I think with present
> leadership we're probably a year or so away from even thinking about
> a YAYAPC.

(With my London.pm hat on)

L.pm does occasional day-long tech workshops where speakers, some of
whom are pro perl speakers, present. There's usually so many talks
multiple tracks happen so I would be surprised if there weren't enough
in SF.pm to fill a day. Once you have 50+ ppl showing up, which a
day-long workshop adequately prepared in advance and advertised
(blogs, meetup.com, word of mouth, etc) should _easily_ get, companies
start to take notice as sponsorship opportunities.

The main thing to get is a venue. L.pm has hooked up with universities
in the past but I'm sure there's plenty that'd take 50-100 in the Bay
that'd welcome us for cheap/free in exchange for some recognition.

I'd be very happy to help with this, having been involved in the past.

Paul

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug  4 14:39:11 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:39:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinYV76T30EsTP35WrR31DudeQcMVdD-RTDb8Jhi@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
	<201008042021.o74KL3Jt063695@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTinYV76T30EsTP35WrR31DudeQcMVdD-RTDb8Jhi@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=arz1OaArJWhQdf_5oEhnY2Y8pVdOwGDCjNwWv@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Paul Makepeace
<Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 13:21, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> The main thing to get is a venue. L.pm has hooked up with universities
> in the past but I'm sure there's plenty that'd take 50-100 in the Bay
> that'd welcome us for cheap/free in exchange for some recognition.
>
> I'd be very happy to help with this, having been involved in the past.

I think doing this under the hat of a one day SF Bay Area Perl
Workshop would be great.  Getting the grant would really make this
feasible.

You should post this thought on the grant review blog entry ;)

>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From miyagawa at gmail.com  Wed Aug  4 14:44:41 2010
From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:44:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=arz1OaArJWhQdf_5oEhnY2Y8pVdOwGDCjNwWv@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
	<201008042021.o74KL3Jt063695@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTinYV76T30EsTP35WrR31DudeQcMVdD-RTDb8Jhi@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=arz1OaArJWhQdf_5oEhnY2Y8pVdOwGDCjNwWv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikjtNtnMQGap9wTc8BbwuDyCf=Jj_gFMc6jQRN4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Paul Makepeace
> <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 13:21, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> The main thing to get is a venue. L.pm has hooked up with universities
>> in the past but I'm sure there's plenty that'd take 50-100 in the Bay
>> that'd welcome us for cheap/free in exchange for some recognition.
>>
>> I'd be very happy to help with this, having been involved in the past.
>
> I think doing this under the hat of a one day SF Bay Area Perl
> Workshop would be great. ?Getting the grant would really make this
> feasible.

TPF would not fund any perl workshops directly, other than providing
registration infrastructure and making the sponsorship deductible,
etc.
http://www.yapc.org/workshops.html


-- 
Tatsuhiko Miyagawa

From uri at StemSystems.com  Wed Aug  4 16:37:30 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:37:30 -0400
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
	(Josh Berkus's message of "Wed\, 04 Aug 2010 12\:53\:19 -0700")
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <87eieedk5h.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "JB" == Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> writes:

  JB> Hmmm.  Have you attempted to get food sponsors for the meetings?
  JB> We've had pretty good luck doing so for the other SFPUG.

boston.pm has had a food sponsor from a company hiring perl
hackers. one employee (a pm regular) was given a short time to plug jobs
and the company did land someone from that. so they promised to pay for
our pizza for some time (though i think we have had paperwork issues
with getting the money sometimes). just one easy way to get free food
that helps all involved. offer to plug perl jobs at local firms for
food. have your members ask their employers if they like the idea. hey,
in SF you could even get better takeout than pizza! :)

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug  4 18:17:31 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 18:17:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <87eieedk5h.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com> <87eieedk5h.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikL7_5VKMbFsDXaf_69NAXC1pKEfzEk3udE99Qt@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "JB" == Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> writes:
>
> ?JB> Hmmm. ?Have you attempted to get food sponsors for the meetings?
> ?JB> We've had pretty good luck doing so for the other SFPUG.
>
> boston.pm has had a food sponsor from a company hiring perl
> hackers.

If the main focus of this grant were solely a food sponsor, I think we
could get one without pulling too many teeth.  But the core of this
proposal is growth; food is a significant budget item in that growth,
but not the only important part of it.  Advertising, outreach, and
being able to buffer the growth of the group are what is sought after.

I realize that most TPF grants are focused towards writing code or
documentation in one form or another.  But when I wrote the first
draft of that grant I was watching the meetings get bigger and bigger,
and the membership increase rapidly.  So the thought that the PM
groups are an essential part of the ecosystem was really impressed
upon me, and helping grow the group with grant could be equally
effective as writing code or docs.

Visibility is a big factor also - people believe the 'Perl is dying'
meme because they don't see it like they see Ruby or Python or PHP.
All of those have strong local user groups that are several times our
size.  They are visible.

 one employee (a pm regular) was given a short time to plug jobs
> and the company did land someone from that. so they promised to pay for
> our pizza for some time (though i think we have had paperwork issues
> with getting the money sometimes). just one easy way to get free food
> that helps all involved. offer to plug perl jobs at local firms for
> food. have your members ask their employers if they like the idea. hey,
> in SF you could even get better takeout than pizza! :)
>
> uri
>
> --
> Uri Guttman ?------ ?uri at stemsystems.com ?-------- ?http://www.sysarch.com --
> ----- ?Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
> --------- ?Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ?---- ?http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
>

From lemseffert at sacsewer.com  Fri Aug  6 07:01:29 2010
From: lemseffert at sacsewer.com (Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA))
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:01:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] (no subject)
Message-ID: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82388@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>

Good morning All,

I'm new to this list, and I hope we all can learn from each other's
experience ..etc

Thanks

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From lemseffert at sacsewer.com  Fri Aug  6 07:12:25 2010
From: lemseffert at sacsewer.com (Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA))
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:12:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82388@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
References: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82388@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238B@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>

Good morning,

Is anyone familiar with Perl script?

Thank you

 

From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org] On
Behalf Of Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:01 AM
To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org
Subject: [sf-perl] (no subject)

 

Good morning All,

I'm new to this list, and I hope we all can learn from each other's
experience ..etc

Thanks

________________________________________________________________________
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From not.com at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 07:15:16 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:15:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238B@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
References: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82388@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238B@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimQHsF6N-5cVV1CrLyRMnwO7n+e=Z5vv_GYjN5F@mail.gmail.com>

Many of us are, how can we help?

From not.com at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 08:39:49 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:39:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238E@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
References: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82388@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238B@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<AANLkTi=ys=fGtFnQv025MZ_MooK_Ht_iCamvAn+cT7q5@mail.gmail.com>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238E@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik4BW-7ENDjOVxR+urWmR0mh_9HX=fvTDTSJueR@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
<lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your reply
> Here is my delima.
> I have an FTp_report.pl ?that I use to send reports from different
> directories to MIs server.
> I want to be able to compare the date to a file date and then send the
> reports..for instance:
> If I want to send only reports from 7/10 to 7/15....
> I have 10 directories that I sent reports from to an MIS server.
> Please let me know if need to clarify my request?
> I can send you The script I have now if you would like!
> Thank you for your help in advance

You can get the age of a file using -M, so if you want to send file
newer than 10 days for example-

use constant { age_limit=>10 };

for my $file (<*/*.txt>) # text files in directories 1 level down
  {
  if (-M $file < age_limit) {
    print "Sending $file\n";
   #... ftp_send($file)
  }
}

That doesn't exactly answer your question on filtering on a date range
though. For that you'd probably want to use a date handling module
from cpan.

Follow up any responses to the list address

From lemseffert at sacsewer.com  Fri Aug  6 08:44:53 2010
From: lemseffert at sacsewer.com (Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA))
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:44:53 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik4BW-7ENDjOVxR+urWmR0mh_9HX=fvTDTSJueR@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82388@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net><52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238B@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net><AANLkTi=ys=fGtFnQv025MZ_MooK_Ht_iCamvAn+cT7q5@mail.gmail.com><52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238E@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<AANLkTik4BW-7ENDjOVxR+urWmR0mh_9HX=fvTDTSJueR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F823BC@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>

Thank you for your response here is my actual script :
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
                                                                         
use Sys::Syslog;

$subetotal_pccs  ='/usr/reports/subetotal/SubEtotal_08-06-2010.CSV';
$subetotal_mis   ='/pccsdata/Reports/Eusage/';

$lnwih2s_pccs    ='/usr/reports/lnwih2s/lnwih2s_08-06-2010.CSV';
$lnwih2s_mis     ='/pccsdata/Reports/LNWI';

$dailylog_pccs   ='/usr/reports/dailylog/DailyLog_08-06-2010.CSV';
$dailylog_mis    ='/pccs/tahar';

$n16_pccs        ='/usr/jpc/reports/n16/n16_08-06-2010.CSV';
$n16_mis         ='/pccsdata/Reports/hydraulics';

$command = '/usr/develop/apps/ftp_report.pl';

$program = $0;
$logopt = 'cons, pid';
$facility = 'HSR';

 # set up the syslog messages.
  openlog($program, $logopt, $facility);

 # send the subetotal to MIS.
  @args = ($command, $subetotal_pccs, $subetotal_mis);
  print @args;
   if ( system (@args) == 0 ) {
 # Do Nothing
   } else {
    syslog('LOG_ALERT|LOG_LOCAL0', 'Failed to send %s to MIS', $subelectotal_pccs);
    die ();
   }

 # send the lnwih2s_pccs to MIS.
  @args = ($command, $lnwih2s_pccs, $lnwih2s_mis);
    if ( system (@args) == 0 ) {
 # do Nothing
  } else {   
    syslog('LOG_ALERT|LOG_LOCAL0', 'Failed to send %s to MIS', $lnwih2s_pccs);
    die ();
  }

# send the dailylog_pccs to MIS.
  @args = ($command, $dailylog_pccs, $dailylog_mis);
    if ( system (@args) == 0 ) {
 # Do Nothing
  } else {    
    syslog('LOG_ALERT|LOG_LOCAL0', 'Failed to send %s to MIS', $dailylog_pccs);
    die ();
  }
  
 # send the n16_pccs to MIS.
  @args = ($command, $n16_pccs, $n16_mis);
    if ( system (@args) == 0 ) {
 # Do Nothing
  } else {   
    syslog('LOG_ALERT|LOG_LOCAL0', 'Failed to send %s to MIS', $n16_pccs);
    die ();
  }

 closelog();
With this script .. I can ftp reports to MIs server so far, but I'm having trouble using the date comapisant

Help!
Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: yary [mailto:not.com at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:40 AM
To: Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA); sanfrancisco-pm
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] (no subject)

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
<lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your reply
> Here is my delima.
> I have an FTp_report.pl ?that I use to send reports from different
> directories to MIs server.
> I want to be able to compare the date to a file date and then send the
> reports..for instance:
> If I want to send only reports from 7/10 to 7/15....
> I have 10 directories that I sent reports from to an MIS server.
> Please let me know if need to clarify my request?
> I can send you The script I have now if you would like!
> Thank you for your help in advance

You can get the age of a file using -M, so if you want to send file
newer than 10 days for example-

use constant { age_limit=>10 };

for my $file (<*/*.txt>) # text files in directories 1 level down
  {
  if (-M $file < age_limit) {
    print "Sending $file\n";
   #... ftp_send($file)
  }
}

That doesn't exactly answer your question on filtering on a date range
though. For that you'd probably want to use a date handling module
from cpan.

Follow up any responses to the list address
____________________________________________________________________________
EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by other
than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto.
_____________________________________________________________________________


From not.com at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 10:11:44 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:11:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F823BC@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
References: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82388@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238B@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<AANLkTi=ys=fGtFnQv025MZ_MooK_Ht_iCamvAn+cT7q5@mail.gmail.com>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F8238E@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<AANLkTik4BW-7ENDjOVxR+urWmR0mh_9HX=fvTDTSJueR@mail.gmail.com>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F823BC@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimc+sXQiE7bT9rUZuQJsehJryb+x3dRXqopT5Au@mail.gmail.com>

Waiting for a report to run at work, will try to help you out a bit-

you can simplify your script a little. I'm going to type without
running & checking, so there may be a few errors in here- read it,
understand what it's doing, try it out...

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w

use Sys::Syslog;

# Set up a regular expression to match July 10-15
my $dates_rx='07-1[0-5]-2010';

my %files=> {
subetotal_pccs  => {pattern =>'/usr/reports/subetotal/SubEtotal_*.CSV',
remote  => '/pccsdata/Reports/Eusage/'},

lnwih2s_pccs    => {pattern=>'/usr/reports/lnwih2s/lnwih2s_*.CSV',
remote=>'/pccsdata/Reports/LNWI'},

dailylog_pccs   =>{pattern=>'/usr/reports/dailylog/DailyLog_*.CSV',
remote    =>'/pccs/tahar'}

n16_pccs        =>{pattern=>'/usr/jpc/reports/n16/n16_08-06-2010.CSV',
remote         =>'/pccsdata/Reports/hydraulics'}
};

$command = '/usr/develop/apps/ftp_report.pl';

$program = $0;
$logopt = 'cons, pid';
$facility = 'HSR';

 # set up the syslog messages.
 openlog($program, $logopt, $facility);

 # Loop through all file categories.
while (my ($category, $details)=each %files) {
  for my $file (< $$details{pattern} >) {
    next unless $file =~ /$dates_rx/o;
   @args = ($command, $file, $details->{remote});
    # Run command, and log if failure
    if (! system (@args) == 0 ) {
      syslog('LOG_ALERT|LOG_LOCAL0', 'Failed to send %s to MIS', $file);
   die 'Failed to send ',$file,' to MIS, stopped';
 }

END {
  # Always calls closelog, even on a "die"
 closelog();
}

-y

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Aug  6 16:18:26 2010
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:18:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SF.pm grant proposal review for TPF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikL7_5VKMbFsDXaf_69NAXC1pKEfzEk3udE99Qt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim5gRmVC58m4QE6VB7nth2_LbW7qzjCbcgOH+yF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C59C52F.8090704@agliodbs.com> <87eieedk5h.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
	<AANLkTikL7_5VKMbFsDXaf_69NAXC1pKEfzEk3udE99Qt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C5C9842.8010507@agliodbs.com>

On 8/4/10 6:17 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
> If the main focus of this grant were solely a food sponsor, I think we
> could get one without pulling too many teeth.  But the core of this
> proposal is growth; food is a significant budget item in that growth,
> but not the only important part of it.  Advertising, outreach, and
> being able to buffer the growth of the group are what is sought after.

Well, I think that you have a problem with your proposal then.  Because
what the proposal talks about is sponsoring food, and that's why you're
getting objections.

-- 
                                  -- Josh Berkus
                                     PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
                                     http://www.pgexperts.com

From david at fetter.org  Fri Aug  6 19:12:57 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:12:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [OT?] Ruby on Parrot
Message-ID: <20100807021257.GU11611@fetter.org>

Folks,

If I recall correctly, at the most recent meeting, Rich asked about
Ruby atop Parrot.  Looks like the Cardinal project's in business.

http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/

Cheers,
David
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From lemseffert at sacsewer.com  Mon Aug  9 14:12:12 2010
From: lemseffert at sacsewer.com (Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA))
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:12:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [OT?] Ruby on Parrot
In-Reply-To: <20100807021257.GU11611@fetter.org>
References: <20100807021257.GU11611@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A06F82638@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>

Hello All,
IF I wanted to donate some money, where should I send my check?

Thank you   

-----Original Message-----
From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org] On
Behalf Of David Fetter
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:13 PM
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers
Subject: [sf-perl] [OT?] Ruby on Parrot

Folks,

If I recall correctly, at the most recent meeting, Rich asked about
Ruby atop Parrot.  Looks like the Cardinal project's in business.

http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/

Cheers,
David
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
____________________________________________________________________________
EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by other
than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto.
_____________________________________________________________________________


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Aug 16 21:39:21 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:39:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Fwd: [oak perl] BALUG TOMRROW! Tu 2010-08-17
 BALUG meeting; & other BALUG news
In-Reply-To: <20100816211430.85150f00kqd95voo@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20100816211430.85150f00kqd95voo@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikBJWDBxwgsgt8T5SGLE7AMTqAME8JAYpOO2N+K@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Paoli <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 9:14 PM
Subject: [oak perl] BALUG TOMRROW! Tu 2010-08-17 BALUG meeting; &
other BALUG news
To: Oakland Perl Mongers <oakland at pm.org>


BALUG TOMRROW! Tu 2010-08-17 BALUG meeting; & other BALUG news

In this issue (details further below):
2010-08-17 Tu: TOMORROW! BALUG meeting
Linux/Ubuntu CDs
2010-08-21 Sa: Picn*x 19 - The Linux 19th Anniversary Picnic

------------------------------

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-08-17

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2010-08-17 BALUG meeting, at least presently we don't have
a specific speaker/presentation lined up for this meeting, but that
doesn't prevent us from having interesting and exciting meetings.
Sometimes we also manage to secure/confirm a speaker too late for us to
announce or fully publicise the speaker (that's happened at least twice
in the past five or so years - including last month's meeting). ?Got
questions, answers, and/or opinions? ?We typically have some expert(s)
and/or relative expert(s) present to cover LINUX and related topic
areas. ?Want to hear some interesting discussions on LINUX and other
topics? ?Show up at the meeting, and feel free to bring an agenda if
you wish. ?Want to help ensure BALUG has speakers/presentations lined up
for future meetings? ?Help refer speakers to us and/or volunteer to be
one of the speaker coordinators. ?Good food, good people, and
interesting conversations to be had.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be
able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6:30pm
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tuesday, August 17th, 2010 2010-08-17

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 731 Grant Ave.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? San Francisco, CA 94108
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Easy PARKING:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
? ? ? ? cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy
? ? ? ? family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also
? ? ? ? helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to
? ? ? ? defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner).

------------------------------

We'll also have various Linux/Ubuntu CDs available at the 2010-08-17
BALUG meeting (and likely also future meetings as long as our supply
lasts/continues), most notably presently including:
Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) Desktop CD PC (Intel x86) i386
(also at least some Fedora, Knoppix, and other Ubuntu variants presently)
Thanks to Grant Bowman and the Ubuntu California Team for getting CDs to
us.

------------------------------

2010-08-21 Sa: Picn*x 19 - The Linux 19th Anniversary Picnic
http://www.linuxpicnic.org/

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------

http://www.balug.org/

_______________________________________________
Oakland mailing list
Oakland at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Aug 17 13:52:47 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:52:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] August meeting next week - Naan 'n Curry
Message-ID: <AANLkTinXxZo66goE_MhFkapoYz_RZoKRk6=NbFqv-dnv@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14453668/

We'll be having a group dinner for the August meeting, and have
a few drinks after for those interested. This will mostly
be a planning meeting for future meetings, but all are welcome
for Perl discussion and agreat food.

"Naan-N-Curry" at 336 O'Farrell Street, between Mason and Taylor.

This place has moved around a few times, and has many satellite
locations now, so look at that address carefully. This is across the
street from the Hilton, and next to the entrance to a large parking
garage.

>From the Powell Street Bart station: walk two blocks north along Powell,
and 1.5 blocks west. Don't try to walk up Mason or Taylor, unless
you're in an adventurous mood.

The food is inexpensive, high quality Indian food. They have a buffet
these days, which makes things simpler. Free chai. The dining room
is double-sized, with large tables: there's no need to worry too much
about RSVPs.

http://naancurry.com/...

This place used to be 24 hours, but I guess they've scaled back to
11:00 AM to 4:00 AM. But I don't think we'll need to rush out of
there.


Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce

From matt at lanier.org  Wed Aug 18 09:56:13 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Alien::SVN
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008180955100.31313@aurora.cloudfactory.org>


so, i seem to have found myself the CPAN maintainer of Alien::SVN, as 
mschwern was done with it and I needed to change it.  so, if you have 
suggestions regarding how it could be better, let me know.

enjoy-

m@

-- 
Matthew D. P. K. Lanier

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Wed Aug 18 10:20:41 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:20:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Alien::SVN
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008180955100.31313@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008180955100.31313@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <2B19434F-FB5F-474B-AA23-E7C0117BDEAE@highwire.stanford.edu>

Cool! 

You know, I'd never heard of the Alien:: namespace until now. What a fantastic idea! I'm definitely going to get use out of this.
	http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/ABERGMAN/Alien-0.91/README

-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On Aug 18, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Matthew Lanier wrote:

> 
> so, i seem to have found myself the CPAN maintainer of Alien::SVN, as mschwern was done with it and I needed to change it.  so, if you have suggestions regarding how it could be better, let me know.
> 
> enjoy-
> 
> m@
> 
> -- 
> Matthew D. P. K. Lanier
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Aug 23 14:33:59 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:33:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Naan 'n Curry is tomorrow evening
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=_-04rhdr_kpS3W0cVCFate6BiWouFyjycD4PC@mail.gmail.com>

Just a quick reminder, we'll have a get together at Naan 'n Curry
tomorrow evening at 7pm.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14453668/

Hope to see you there.  We're looking for meeting ideas and speakers,
so if you have those rolling around in your head, please attend!

From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Aug 24 10:53:14 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:53:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>

greetings,

one of our customary 'use lib' statements for a local program is:

  use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';

i'm modifying the program and in my development area, i want to use a
locally modified version of one of the modules it uses.

but it's picking up the installed module rather than my local module.

here's what i'm seeing:

  DB<1> l 1+10
1       #!/usr/bin/perl
2
3:      use strict;
4:      use warnings;
5
6:      use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
7
8            ##### => dbg
9:      use lib
'/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
10           ##### <= dbg
11
  DB<2> x @INC
0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'

and if i reverse the order in which i "use" them, i get:

  DB<1> l 1+10
1       #!/usr/bin/perl
2
3:      use strict;
4:      use warnings;
5
6            ##### => dbg
7:      use lib
'/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
8            ##### <= dbg
9
10:     use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
11
  DB<2> x @INC
0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'

i thought 'use lib' had the effect of unshifting its arg onto @INC,
but /nas/reg/lib/perl seems to "win" no matter in what order i specify
the libs.

i've done this before with no problem.  i'm sure i'm missing
something.  or perhaps it only seemed to work before...

what am i missing?

thanks,
david
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From garth.webb at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:01:13 2010
From: garth.webb at gmail.com (Garth Webb)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:01:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinnbberEo-p=2W2Wi639H9uqFQROd+E=WY8P4FX@mail.gmail.com>

Combing those into a single statement that has the order you want:

use lib qw( /path/b /path/a /path/c );

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:53 AM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:

> greetings,
>
> one of our customary 'use lib' statements for a local program is:
>
>  use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
>
> i'm modifying the program and in my development area, i want to use a
> locally modified version of one of the modules it uses.
>
> but it's picking up the installed module rather than my local module.
>
> here's what i'm seeing:
>
>  DB<1> l 1+10
> 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> 2
> 3:      use strict;
> 4:      use warnings;
> 5
> 6:      use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> 7
> 8            ##### => dbg
> 9:      use lib
>
> '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> 10           ##### <= dbg
> 11
>  DB<2> x @INC
> 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> 3
>  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
>
> and if i reverse the order in which i "use" them, i get:
>
>  DB<1> l 1+10
> 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> 2
> 3:      use strict;
> 4:      use warnings;
> 5
> 6            ##### => dbg
> 7:      use lib
>
> '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> 8            ##### <= dbg
> 9
> 10:     use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> 11
>  DB<2> x @INC
> 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> 3
>  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
>
> i thought 'use lib' had the effect of unshifting its arg onto @INC,
> but /nas/reg/lib/perl seems to "win" no matter in what order i specify
> the libs.
>
> i've done this before with no problem.  i'm sure i'm missing
> something.  or perhaps it only seemed to work before...
>
> what am i missing?
>
> thanks,
> david
> --
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Tue Aug 24 11:08:34 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:08:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>

David,

I managed a work around for this behavior at my office a while ago. We have each developer set an environment variable containing their personal module path and use that in preference to the default. It requires this at the top of each script, though:

BEGIN {
    if ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} =~ /\:/ ) {
        unshift( @INC, split( /\:/, $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) );
    }
    elsif ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) {
        unshift( @INC, $ENV{PERL_LIB} );
    }
    else {
        unshift( @INC, '/path/to/production/lib/perl5' );
    }
}


The colon splitting was added when we realized we wanted to split our perl modules into multiple CVS projects. They're all in one production directory, but in individual project directories for each developer.

-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:53 AM, David Alban wrote:

> greetings,
> 
> one of our customary 'use lib' statements for a local program is:
> 
>  use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> 
> i'm modifying the program and in my development area, i want to use a
> locally modified version of one of the modules it uses.
> 
> but it's picking up the installed module rather than my local module.
> 
> here's what i'm seeing:
> 
>  DB<1> l 1+10
> 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> 2
> 3:      use strict;
> 4:      use warnings;
> 5
> 6:      use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> 7
> 8            ##### => dbg
> 9:      use lib
> '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> 10           ##### <= dbg
> 11
>  DB<2> x @INC
> 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> 3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
> 
> and if i reverse the order in which i "use" them, i get:
> 
>  DB<1> l 1+10
> 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> 2
> 3:      use strict;
> 4:      use warnings;
> 5
> 6            ##### => dbg
> 7:      use lib
> '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> 8            ##### <= dbg
> 9
> 10:     use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> 11
>  DB<2> x @INC
> 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> 3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
> 
> i thought 'use lib' had the effect of unshifting its arg onto @INC,
> but /nas/reg/lib/perl seems to "win" no matter in what order i specify
> the libs.
> 
> i've done this before with no problem.  i'm sure i'm missing
> something.  or perhaps it only seemed to work before...
> 
> what am i missing?
> 
> thanks,
> david
> -- 
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From matt at lanier.org  Tue Aug 24 11:08:42 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:08:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] local::lib
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008241106370.31313@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

yo-

who's using local::lib?  I was recently exposed to it, and am finding that 
it has solved many of the problems from instantiating and swithing among 
different perl environments on the same system quickly.

http://search.cpan.org/~getty/local-lib-1.006007/lib/local/lib.pm

if there's interest, i'd gladly give a lightning talk about how this is 
useful.

thanks-

m@

-- 
Matthew D. P. K. Lanier

From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Aug 24 11:17:02 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:17:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinnbberEo-p=2W2Wi639H9uqFQROd+E=WY8P4FX@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinnbberEo-p=2W2Wi639H9uqFQROd+E=WY8P4FX@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=JdU5nWokZY2e_0im6XcqUSV9L4RMu=hx8PzdF@mail.gmail.com>

same results.  /nas/reg/lib/perl "wins" no matter what.  :-(

  DB<1> l 1+11
1       #!/usr/bin/perl
2
3:      use strict;
4:      use warnings;
5
6            ##### => dbg
7:      use lib qw(
8                   /nas/reg/lib/perl
9
/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl
10:               );
11           ##### <= dbg
12
  DB<2> x @INC
0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
[...]



  DB<1> l 1+11
1       #!/usr/bin/perl
2
3:      use strict;
4:      use warnings;
5
6            ##### => dbg
7:      use lib qw(
8
/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl
9                   /nas/reg/lib/perl
10:               );
11           ##### <= dbg
12
  DB<2> x @INC
0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'



2010/8/24 Garth Webb <garth.webb at gmail.com>:
> Combing those into a single statement that has the order you want:
> use lib qw( /path/b /path/a /path/c );

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From not.com at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:17:19 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:17:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikmp0X91MEaJVzo9r8Uj4LqqOqMWogb7K0qCtsT@mail.gmail.com>

just out of curiosity, what does
perl -e 'print "@INC\n"'
say? Wondering if your site-wide config adds '/nas/reg/lib/perl'. "use
lib" removes duplicate trailing entries, after all.

From garth.webb at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:19:06 2010
From: garth.webb at gmail.com (Garth Webb)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:19:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>

Why not just set the standard PERL5LIB env which get placed at the beginning
of @INC?

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Michael Friedman <
friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote:

> David,
>
> I managed a work around for this behavior at my office a while ago. We have
> each developer set an environment variable containing their personal module
> path and use that in preference to the default. It requires this at the top
> of each script, though:
>
> BEGIN {
>    if ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} =~ /\:/ ) {
>        unshift( @INC, split( /\:/, $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) );
>    }
>    elsif ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) {
>        unshift( @INC, $ENV{PERL_LIB} );
>    }
>    else {
>        unshift( @INC, '/path/to/production/lib/perl5' );
>    }
> }
>
>
> The colon splitting was added when we realized we wanted to split our perl
> modules into multiple CVS projects. They're all in one production directory,
> but in individual project directories for each developer.
>
> -- Mike
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ |
> friedman at highwire.stanford.edu
>
> On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:53 AM, David Alban wrote:
>
> > greetings,
> >
> > one of our customary 'use lib' statements for a local program is:
> >
> >  use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> >
> > i'm modifying the program and in my development area, i want to use a
> > locally modified version of one of the modules it uses.
> >
> > but it's picking up the installed module rather than my local module.
> >
> > here's what i'm seeing:
> >
> >  DB<1> l 1+10
> > 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> > 2
> > 3:      use strict;
> > 4:      use warnings;
> > 5
> > 6:      use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> > 7
> > 8            ##### => dbg
> > 9:      use lib
> >
> '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> > 10           ##### <= dbg
> > 11
> >  DB<2> x @INC
> > 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> > 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> > 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> > 3
>  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
> >
> > and if i reverse the order in which i "use" them, i get:
> >
> >  DB<1> l 1+10
> > 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> > 2
> > 3:      use strict;
> > 4:      use warnings;
> > 5
> > 6            ##### => dbg
> > 7:      use lib
> >
> '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> > 8            ##### <= dbg
> > 9
> > 10:     use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> > 11
> >  DB<2> x @INC
> > 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> > 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> > 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> > 3
>  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
> >
> > i thought 'use lib' had the effect of unshifting its arg onto @INC,
> > but /nas/reg/lib/perl seems to "win" no matter in what order i specify
> > the libs.
> >
> > i've done this before with no problem.  i'm sure i'm missing
> > something.  or perhaps it only seemed to work before...
> >
> > what am i missing?
> >
> > thanks,
> > david
> > --
> > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From garth.webb at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:20:03 2010
From: garth.webb at gmail.com (Garth Webb)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikmp0X91MEaJVzo9r8Uj4LqqOqMWogb7K0qCtsT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikmp0X91MEaJVzo9r8Uj4LqqOqMWogb7K0qCtsT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikHNr3-aDfzJC5H1guxpe0EK+LLqNc=tsVJowO9@mail.gmail.com>

Good suggestion.  Testing with bogus paths on my machine I found order was
not respected with two "use lib" lines but was respected with a combined
line.

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:17 AM, yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:

> just out of curiosity, what does
> perl -e 'print "@INC\n"'
> say? Wondering if your site-wide config adds '/nas/reg/lib/perl'. "use
> lib" removes duplicate trailing entries, after all.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Aug 24 11:20:05 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:20:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikmp0X91MEaJVzo9r8Uj4LqqOqMWogb7K0qCtsT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikmp0X91MEaJVzo9r8Uj4LqqOqMWogb7K0qCtsT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinwESPhg4x836qeJA=kNnVDm+GvwXiB-LdqEtr4@mail.gmail.com>

doesn't appear to be the case:

$ perl -de 1

Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.28
Editor support available.

Enter h or `h h' for help, or `man perldebug' for more help.

main::(-e:1):   1
  DB<1> x @INC
0  '/usr/lib64/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
1  '/usr/lib64/perl5/site_perl/5.8.7/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
2  '/usr/lib64/perl5/site_perl/5.8.6/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
3  '/usr/lib64/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
4  '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8'
5  '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.7'
6  '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.6'
7  '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5'
8  '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl'
9  '/usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
10  '/usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.7/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
11  '/usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.6/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
12  '/usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.5/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
13  '/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8'
14  '/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.7'
15  '/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.6'
16  '/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.5'
17  '/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl'
18  '/usr/lib64/perl5/5.8.8/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
19  '/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8'
20  '.'


On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:17 AM, yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> just out of curiosity, what does
> perl -e 'print "@INC\n"'
> say? Wondering if your site-wide config adds '/nas/reg/lib/perl'. "use
> lib" removes duplicate trailing entries, after all.

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Tue Aug 24 11:23:44 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:23:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0426CD0B-6EC8-4905-AE48-F4E4E96C6A03@highwire.stanford.edu>

Ummm... because we created this BEGIN block in perl 4. :-)

Seriously, though, it's convenient to *replace* instead of just *prepend* libs. We also have multiple production copies of our modules in a very few cases (like slowly rolling out a new major release of our code), so we really want to remove any chance of the script getting the default path by accident. 

But yeah, for normal circumstances, PERL5LIB works pretty well.

-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Garth Webb wrote:

> Why not just set the standard PERL5LIB env which get placed at the beginning of @INC?
> 
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote:
> David,
> 
> I managed a work around for this behavior at my office a while ago. We have each developer set an environment variable containing their personal module path and use that in preference to the default. It requires this at the top of each script, though:
> 
> BEGIN {
>    if ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} =~ /\:/ ) {
>        unshift( @INC, split( /\:/, $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) );
>    }
>    elsif ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) {
>        unshift( @INC, $ENV{PERL_LIB} );
>    }
>    else {
>        unshift( @INC, '/path/to/production/lib/perl5' );
>    }
> }
> 
> 
> The colon splitting was added when we realized we wanted to split our perl modules into multiple CVS projects. They're all in one production directory, but in individual project directories for each developer.
> 
> -- Mike
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu
> 
> On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:53 AM, David Alban wrote:
> 
> > greetings,
> >
> > one of our customary 'use lib' statements for a local program is:
> >
> >  use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> >
> > i'm modifying the program and in my development area, i want to use a
> > locally modified version of one of the modules it uses.
> >
> > but it's picking up the installed module rather than my local module.
> >
> > here's what i'm seeing:
> >
> >  DB<1> l 1+10
> > 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> > 2
> > 3:      use strict;
> > 4:      use warnings;
> > 5
> > 6:      use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> > 7
> > 8            ##### => dbg
> > 9:      use lib
> > '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> > 10           ##### <= dbg
> > 11
> >  DB<2> x @INC
> > 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> > 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> > 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> > 3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
> >
> > and if i reverse the order in which i "use" them, i get:
> >
> >  DB<1> l 1+10
> > 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> > 2
> > 3:      use strict;
> > 4:      use warnings;
> > 5
> > 6            ##### => dbg
> > 7:      use lib
> > '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl';
> > 8            ##### <= dbg
> > 9
> > 10:     use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> > 11
> >  DB<2> x @INC
> > 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> > 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> > 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> > 3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
> >
> > i thought 'use lib' had the effect of unshifting its arg onto @INC,
> > but /nas/reg/lib/perl seems to "win" no matter in what order i specify
> > the libs.
> >
> > i've done this before with no problem.  i'm sure i'm missing
> > something.  or perhaps it only seemed to work before...
> >
> > what am i missing?
> >
> > thanks,
> > david
> > --
> > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 


From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Aug 24 11:24:44 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:24:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>

:-(

$ ( export PERLLIB=/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl
; perl -d deploy-properties )

Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.28
Editor support available.

Enter h or `h h' for help, or `man perldebug' for more help.

main::(deploy-properties:37):   ++$|;
  DB<1> l 1+6
1       #!/usr/bin/perl
2
3:      use strict;
4:      use warnings;
5
6:      use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
7
  DB<2> x @INC
0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
3  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'


2010/8/24 Garth Webb <garth.webb at gmail.com>:
> Why not just set the standard PERL5LIB env which get placed at the beginning
> of @INC?

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From not.com at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:28:18 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:28:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=P9ypspssubtq3U6WeSnMT3P=m5DDcuxe3d2fP@mail.gmail.com>

All I can think of is that one of your libraries is also manipulating
@INC. My perl 5.10.1 is behaving well:

use lib 'e1';
use lib 'e2';
print join "\n", at INC;

e2
e1
C:/aPerl/site/lib
C:/aPerl/lib

use lib 'e1';
use lib 'e2';
print join "\n", at INC;

e2
e1
C:/aPerl/site/lib
C:/aPerl/lib

-y

From garth.webb at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:29:38 2010
From: garth.webb at gmail.com (Garth Webb)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:29:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinsRc1rfXw5_eQ=s4mvfqsekZrDbdEdSwkW7Fph@mail.gmail.com>

Gonna say your install is cursed:

Garth-Webbs-MacBook-Pro:~ garth$ PERL5LIB="/zebra/yak:/apple/banana" perl -e
'print join("\n", @INC)."\n"'
/zebra/yak
/apple/banana
/opt/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.9/darwin-2level
/opt/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.9
/opt/local/lib/perl5/site_perl
/opt/local/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.9/darwin-2level
/opt/local/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.9
/opt/local/lib/perl5/vendor_perl
/opt/local/lib/perl5/5.8.9/darwin-2level
/opt/local/lib/perl5/5.8.9
.
Garth-Webbs-MacBook-Pro:~ garth$ PERL5LIB="/apple/banana:/zebra/yak" perl -e
'print join("\n", @INC)."\n"'
/apple/banana
/zebra/yak
/opt/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.9/darwin-2level
/opt/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.9
/opt/local/lib/perl5/site_perl
/opt/local/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.9/darwin-2level
/opt/local/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.9
/opt/local/lib/perl5/vendor_perl
/opt/local/lib/perl5/5.8.9/darwin-2level
/opt/local/lib/perl5/5.8.9
.


On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:24 AM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:

> :-(
>
> $ ( export
> PERLLIB=/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl
> ; perl -d deploy-properties )
>
> Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.28
> Editor support available.
>
> Enter h or `h h' for help, or `man perldebug' for more help.
>
> main::(deploy-properties:37):   ++$|;
>  DB<1> l 1+6
> 1       #!/usr/bin/perl
> 2
> 3:      use strict;
> 4:      use warnings;
> 5
> 6:      use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl';
> 7
>   DB<2> x @INC
> 0  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi'
> 1  '/nas/reg/lib/perl/5.8.5'
> 2  '/nas/reg/lib/perl'
> 3
>  '/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl'
>
>
> 2010/8/24 Garth Webb <garth.webb at gmail.com>:
> > Why not just set the standard PERL5LIB env which get placed at the
> beginning
> > of @INC?
>
> --
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From not.com at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:31:07 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:31:07 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=P9ypspssubtq3U6WeSnMT3P=m5DDcuxe3d2fP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=P9ypspssubtq3U6WeSnMT3P=m5DDcuxe3d2fP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTintAWd_Ee8wz1Ueu48=ta37MWg7jq5kL7u4s+Ts@mail.gmail.com>

Err, copy/paste error!
use lib 'e2';
use lib 'e1';
print join "\n", at INC;

e1
e2


use lib 'e1';
use lib 'e2';
print join "\n", at INC;

e2
e1
C:/aPerl/site/lib
C:/aPerl/lib

From miyagawa at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 11:33:19 2010
From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:33:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=zw0HcS+svp+58=c6vMwGeGYEjhuLF=aUzCiPy@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:24 AM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:
> :-(
>
> $ ( export PERLLIB=/nas/home/dalban/perforce/srwd00reg001/default/internal/reg/pb_reg_nasify_properties/lib/perl
> ; perl -d deploy-properties )

s/PERLLIB/PERL5LIB/


-- 
Tatsuhiko Miyagawa

From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Aug 24 11:39:39 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:39:39 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=P9ypspssubtq3U6WeSnMT3P=m5DDcuxe3d2fP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimJugsaf-9EafSX7ekLo7n5r2b9kbZTv01ORN6R@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=bDCGeJiNuZgc6YkEewcZPVcG+wCxk-qs0dvCm@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=P9ypspssubtq3U6WeSnMT3P=m5DDcuxe3d2fP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=q7PL3rCND537PqE7cWUNqA=owe1r+iHeKC1bH@mail.gmail.com>

i believe that was it.  i had this same problem a while back and
thought i had sanitized our other home grown modules.  turns out i
missed one and it took over a year for this to crop up as a problem!

anyway, thanks!

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:28 AM, yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> All I can think of is that one of your libraries is also manipulating
> @INC. My perl 5.10.1 is behaving well:

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From rjray at blackperl.com  Tue Aug 24 11:40:38 2010
From: rjray at blackperl.com (Randy J. Ray)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:40:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4C741226.8070503@blackperl.com>

Michael Friedman wrote:

> I managed a work around for this behavior at my office a while ago. We have each developer set an environment variable containing their personal module path and use that in preference to the default. It requires this at the top of each script, though:
> 
> BEGIN {
>     if ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} =~ /\:/ ) {
>         unshift( @INC, split( /\:/, $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) );
>     }
>     elsif ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) {
>         unshift( @INC, $ENV{PERL_LIB} );
>     }
>     else {
>         unshift( @INC, '/path/to/production/lib/perl5' );
>     }
> }
> 
> 
> The colon splitting was added when we realized we wanted to split our perl modules into multiple CVS projects. They're all in one production directory, but in individual project directories for each developer.

Not meaning to venture into golf territory, but the elsif is unnecessary:

BEGIN {
     if ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) {
         unshift( @INC, split( /\:/, $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) );
     }
     else {
         unshift( @INC, '/path/to/production/lib/perl5' );
     }
}

split() will do what you want (return a single-item list) when there is content 
in PERL_LIB but no ":".

As to why you'd do this instead of PERL5LIB, PERL5LIB is added to @INC before 
any "use lib" are processed. This block can be placed in a way such that you 
control the timing of when the path-elements are added. Different solutions for 
different folks/problems, and all that...

Randy
-- 
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Randy J. Ray      Sunnyvale, CA      http://www.rjray.org   rjray at blackperl.com

Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Tue Aug 24 13:16:25 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:16:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] use lib: order doesn't seem to matter
In-Reply-To: <4C741226.8070503@blackperl.com>
References: <AANLkTin-O4U+1ccprt-+9jfEKnpy7SBc0DHHuWz5D+Q4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3EE894D2-B862-4122-B3D6-92C39CE453D0@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<4C741226.8070503@blackperl.com>
Message-ID: <AC3F0DDE-46A3-433D-9454-1DB2365BBDEB@highwire.stanford.edu>

Hey, one elsif shorter! D'oh, I should've seen that. I've been staring at this code for years and never bothered to optimize it.

As for why not PERL5LIB, see my other message. We're replacing the production library, not adding on in front of it, in this particular case.

Thanks for the shortening!
-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Randy J. Ray wrote:

> Michael Friedman wrote:
> 
>> I managed a work around for this behavior at my office a while ago. We have each developer set an environment variable containing their personal module path and use that in preference to the default. It requires this at the top of each script, though:
>> BEGIN {
>>    if ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} =~ /\:/ ) {
>>        unshift( @INC, split( /\:/, $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) );
>>    }
>>    elsif ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) {
>>        unshift( @INC, $ENV{PERL_LIB} );
>>    }
>>    else {
>>        unshift( @INC, '/path/to/production/lib/perl5' );
>>    }
>> }
>> The colon splitting was added when we realized we wanted to split our perl modules into multiple CVS projects. They're all in one production directory, but in individual project directories for each developer.
> 
> Not meaning to venture into golf territory, but the elsif is unnecessary:
> 
> BEGIN {
>    if ( $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) {
>        unshift( @INC, split( /\:/, $ENV{PERL_LIB} ) );
>    }
>    else {
>        unshift( @INC, '/path/to/production/lib/perl5' );
>    }
> }
> 
> split() will do what you want (return a single-item list) when there is content in PERL_LIB but no ":".
> 
> As to why you'd do this instead of PERL5LIB, PERL5LIB is added to @INC before any "use lib" are processed. This block can be placed in a way such that you control the timing of when the path-elements are added. Different solutions for different folks/problems, and all that...
> 
> Randy
> -- 
> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
> Randy J. Ray      Sunnyvale, CA      http://www.rjray.org   rjray at blackperl.com
> 
> Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org


From miyagawa at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 17:31:19 2010
From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:31:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] local::lib
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008241106370.31313@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1008241106370.31313@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=9gBCcircU1u6O6cyH+f2pXzE2z=coxf1eXSby@mail.gmail.com>

Check out cpanm's -l and -L option - they're meant to work best for
local::lib users, allowing you to install modules to local::lib
directories, even without switching the shell env vars.

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
> yo-
>
> who's using local::lib? ?I was recently exposed to it, and am finding that
> it has solved many of the problems from instantiating and swithing among
> different perl environments on the same system quickly.
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~getty/local-lib-1.006007/lib/local/lib.pm
>
> if there's interest, i'd gladly give a lightning talk about how this is
> useful.
>
> thanks-
>


-- 
Tatsuhiko Miyagawa

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug 25 12:07:40 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:07:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
Message-ID: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Many a subject was discussed at Naan and Curry tonight which I
will not even attempt to summarize.  Here's just a few I wanted
to say something about:

(1) A suggestion for the next meeting is a "hackathon" (maybe
a mini-hackathon?). The proposed format for this is still under
discussion:  Should we select a general theme of what to work
on, or leave it open, TBD by the people at the meeting?  Maybe
we should do it birds-of-a-feather style, with a different
focus in each corner of the room?  Anyone have any suggestions
on format or topic?

Some of the topic ideas floated at the meeting:

  o  automated clone of a perl set-up (modules installed from cpan, etc)
  o  finding large scale "best practice" code examples
     (e.g. several modules, not just several lines)
  o  graphing dependencies of all of cpan
  o  improvements to cpan (research and discussion)
  o  the ultimate perl linux distro / cloud vm image
  o  integrating perl data structures into memcache
  o  emacs tweaks for perl development
     (this one was *not* my suggestion, this time).

(2) Someone was surprised to hear about the perl5 wiki:

  http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?perl_5_wiki

There's also a perl6 wiki:

  http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6

(3) Some of us mentioned that using git seemed complicated
and error prone (which is not to say that it is not powerful
and useful).

Once again, someone suggested we might have a talk on git.
I agree completely, if anyone wants to volunteer to do it:
sf.pm hosts talks on subjects that are perl-related, not
necessarily perl-specific.


From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Aug 25 12:11:28 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:11:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
In-Reply-To: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim7iGvfEjryD1TO+=X_cx-q3+ddnrNckS2b6sQZ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:07, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> ?o ?graphing dependencies of all of cpan

http://deps.cpantesters.org/

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug 25 12:13:43 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:13:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
Message-ID: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>


On the subject of "improvements to cpan", I think the research
could start with this page:

  https://www.socialtext.net/perl5/index.cgi?cpan_related_websites

And this mailing list archive:

  http://www.mail-archive.com/cpan-workers at perl.org/

This site was getting positive comments at the last meeting:

  http://static.cpantesters.org/

And over at CPANTS they have all of the CPAN metadata up as an
easily downloaded SQLite file (which, as I remember it, has an
odd schema that appears to be completely undocumented):

     http://cpants.perl.org/static/cpants_all.db.gz

I think ideas like this were under discussion at the last meeting:

  http://github.com/schwern/gitpan/blob/master/README

  "gitPAN is a project to import the entire history of
  CPAN (known as BackPAN) into a set of git repositories,
  one per distribution."

I mentioned "Kwalitee", and I see that there's an "optional" Kwalitee
test "is_prereq", that looks to see if at least one other CPAN author
is using your work:

    http://cpants.perl.org/kwalitee.html

Myself, I suggest keeping an eye on David Golden:

   http://www.dagolden.com/

Note the links in "My Best Stuff" over on the right side.


From extasia at extasia.org  Wed Aug 25 12:33:37 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:33:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
In-Reply-To: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=TVTDHB1=tvFvKDhWUZ_TDnLZNqSvgvvkF0hP0@mail.gmail.com>

thanks for posting the notes.

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From miyagawa at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 12:36:53 2010
From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:36:53 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
In-Reply-To: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikhA+zDAQ9aUp7YHtaq28j9ew_uqVn5JP2J++oj@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:

> (3) Some of us mentioned that using git seemed complicated
> and error prone (which is not to say that it is not powerful
> and useful).
>
> Once again, someone suggested we might have a talk on git.
> I agree completely, if anyone wants to volunteer to do it:

I'd suggest Jonathan (hachi) - he is the guy to ask any questions
about git at Six Apart :)
http://devblog.typepad.com/typepad-dev-blog/2010/08/a-switch-to-git.html


-- 
Tatsuhiko Miyagawa

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug 25 12:48:58 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:48:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
In-Reply-To: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=-7KxfMSO_Jt7yKNDzdOh+TmQG4b8R0LzjzVMx@mail.gmail.com>

With regards to the hackathon, perhaps we shoot for putting
App::PM::SF up on CPAN.  What does App::PM::SF do?  Suggestions
welcome :)

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Many a subject was discussed at Naan and Curry tonight which I
> will not even attempt to summarize. ?Here's just a few I wanted
> to say something about:
>
> (1) A suggestion for the next meeting is a "hackathon" (maybe
> a mini-hackathon?). The proposed format for this is still under
> discussion: ?Should we select a general theme of what to work
> on, or leave it open, TBD by the people at the meeting? ?Maybe
> we should do it birds-of-a-feather style, with a different
> focus in each corner of the room? ?Anyone have any suggestions
> on format or topic?
>
> Some of the topic ideas floated at the meeting:
>
> ?o ?automated clone of a perl set-up (modules installed from cpan, etc)
> ?o ?finding large scale "best practice" code examples
> ? ? (e.g. several modules, not just several lines)
> ?o ?graphing dependencies of all of cpan
> ?o ?improvements to cpan (research and discussion)
> ?o ?the ultimate perl linux distro / cloud vm image
> ?o ?integrating perl data structures into memcache
> ?o ?emacs tweaks for perl development
> ? ? (this one was *not* my suggestion, this time).
>
> (2) Someone was surprised to hear about the perl5 wiki:
>
> ?http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?perl_5_wiki
>
> There's also a perl6 wiki:
>
> ?http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6
>
> (3) Some of us mentioned that using git seemed complicated
> and error prone (which is not to say that it is not powerful
> and useful).
>
> Once again, someone suggested we might have a talk on git.
> I agree completely, if anyone wants to volunteer to do it:
> sf.pm hosts talks on subjects that are perl-related, not
> necessarily perl-specific.
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug 25 13:44:33 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:44:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim7iGvfEjryD1TO+=X_cx-q3+ddnrNckS2b6sQZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTim7iGvfEjryD1TO+=X_cx-q3+ddnrNckS2b6sQZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201008252044.o7PKiXpi079868@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > o graphing dependencies of all of cpan
>
> http://deps.cpantesters.org/

Yes, that's a good one.  It's oriented toward telling you about the
dependency tree of particular modules.  It helps you figure out whether
a "sudo cpan -i" will install without error, and gives you some hints
about how the author went about solving the problem.

This isn't particularly what I'm interested in, though.  What I'd like
to see is a single, printed graph displaying the dependencies of all of
CPAN.  The goal here isn't necessarily to learn something practical, my
main goal is to come up with a huge, snazzy looking printed graph as a
stunt, to have something to show at technical conferences.

I like GraphViz, but it grinds to a halt on data-sets of any size
(e.g. 100 nodes), and none of the it's standard layout formats can
deal with a heavily-connected graph.

Maybe the solution would be Cytoscape plus some perl-glue, with data
from the cpants dependency db (an sqllite file):

  http://cytoscape.org/
  http://www.mkbergman.com/415/cytoscape-hands-down-winner-for-large-scale-graph-visualization/
  http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Graph-XGMML-0.01/lib/Graph/XGMML.pm

Or maybe there's another solution out there:

  http://www.mkbergman.com/414/large-scale-rdf-graph-visualization-tools/



From david at fetter.org  Wed Aug 25 13:52:29 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:52:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
In-Reply-To: <201008252044.o7PKiXpi079868@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTim7iGvfEjryD1TO+=X_cx-q3+ddnrNckS2b6sQZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<201008252044.o7PKiXpi079868@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20100825205229.GD27147@fetter.org>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 01:44:33PM -0700, Joe Brenner wrote:
> 
> Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> > Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > > o graphing dependencies of all of cpan
> >
> > http://deps.cpantesters.org/
> 
> Yes, that's a good one.  It's oriented toward telling you about the
> dependency tree of particular modules.  It helps you figure out
> whether a "sudo cpan -i" will install without error, and gives you
> some hints about how the author went about solving the problem.
> 
> This isn't particularly what I'm interested in, though.  What I'd
> like to see is a single, printed graph displaying the dependencies
> of all of CPAN.  The goal here isn't necessarily to learn something
> practical, my main goal is to come up with a huge, snazzy looking
> printed graph as a stunt, to have something to show at technical
> conferences.

Let's take this one chunk at a time.  Do we have nodes and edges all
in one list?

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From not.com at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 14:01:50 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:01:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=pu4UfFBxTz+YgR5QBB8ysVdk0gympAJNTDxvK@mail.gmail.com>

P6 lists have occasional musings on the next CPAN, but I can't find
any at the moment. In any case, add to the link list:

http://perlcabal.org/syn/S22.html (very much a draft)

http://cpan6.org/

And until that's ready- http://modules.perl6.org/

>This site was getting positive comments at the last meeting:
>
> http://static.cpantesters.org/

You can install CPAN::Reporter, do a little config needed for their
transition away from email next week, and then every time you install
a module via CPAN, it will send its pass/fail status in. Nifty! I
think that's a good practice where practical, to broaden the variety
of platforms represented in the results.

There's a module for CPANPLUS too, dunno about cpanm.

-y

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug 25 14:30:43 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:30:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:

> On the subject of "improvements to cpan", [...]

A lot of people like the idea of publishing cpan download
stats to use popularity as a guide to quality.

It does not seem likely that that data to be made available
any time soon:

  http://www.cpan.org/misc/cpan-faq.html#Plans_for_statistics

  "Does CPAN provide download statistics for authors?

  "No we don't. http://xxx.lanl.gov/help/faq/statfaq sums up our
  thoughts on the matter quite well."

From miyagawa at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 14:40:22 2010
From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:40:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin+t6PB8ecq0xfieS3Skb+MNTmUEtpeo3bX+LU2@mail.gmail.com>

Adam Kennedy has set up Strawberry Perl's default mirror to his mirror
and he has all the statistics information of SP users installations
(unless they manually changed the mirror). So do I for the cpanm
users, which queries my cpanmetadb app to resolve package names ;)

That'd be an interesting hack activity to automatically publish
rankings/graphs sort of thing by analyzing the logs.

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>> On the subject of "improvements to cpan", [...]
>
> A lot of people like the idea of publishing cpan download
> stats to use popularity as a guide to quality.
>
> It does not seem likely that that data to be made available
> any time soon:
>
> ?http://www.cpan.org/misc/cpan-faq.html#Plans_for_statistics
>
> ?"Does CPAN provide download statistics for authors?
>
> ?"No we don't. http://xxx.lanl.gov/help/faq/statfaq sums up our
> ?thoughts on the matter quite well."
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>



-- 
Tatsuhiko Miyagawa

From david at fetter.org  Wed Aug 25 14:42:22 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:42:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 02:30:43PM -0700, Joe Brenner wrote:
> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> 
> > On the subject of "improvements to cpan", [...]
> 
> A lot of people like the idea of publishing cpan download stats to
> use popularity as a guide to quality.

Popular CPAN modules get packaged and shipped with OSs, which means
that to an excellent first approximation no one downloads them from
CPAN.

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Aug 25 15:04:24 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:04:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 14:42, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> Popular CPAN modules get packaged and shipped with OSs, which means
> that to an excellent first approximation no one downloads them from
> CPAN.

(Except for upgrades)

Also package managers muddy the waters.

That said, I'd rather see what's there than nothing at all. I'm sure
there's *some* use in it, the paranoia in the lanl.gov page
notwithstanding.

Paul

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug 25 15:11:51 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:11:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Naan and Curry, re-warmed
In-Reply-To: <20100825205229.GD27147@fetter.org>
References: <201008251907.o7PJ7eYr077964@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTim7iGvfEjryD1TO+=X_cx-q3+ddnrNckS2b6sQZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<201008252044.o7PKiXpi079868@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100825205229.GD27147@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <201008252211.o7PMBp3A081663@kzsu.stanford.edu>


David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> Joe Brenner wrote:
> > Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> > > Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > > >   graphing dependencies of all of cpan

[...]

> > What I'd like to see is a single, printed graph displaying the
> > dependencies of all of CPAN.  The goal here isn't necessarily to
> > learn something practical, my main goal is to come up with a huge,
> > snazzy looking printed graph as a stunt, to have something to show
> > at technical conferences.

> Let's take this one chunk at a time.  Do we have nodes and edges all
> in one list?

In here (an sqlite3 db file):

  http://cpants.perl.org/static/cpants_all.db.gz

The relevant data is in three tables:
  "modules", "prereq", and "dist".

This appears to be the schema:

  http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-ProcessCPAN-0.77/sql/cpants.schema

These seem like the relevant fields:

  modules.id       (integer, id)
  modules.module   (text)
  modules.dist     (integer, fk to dist.id)
  modules.is_core  (integer, 0 or 1)

  prereg.id        (integer, id)
  prereq.dist      (integer, fk to dist.id)
  prereq.requires  (text, module name: not an fk to modules.id)
  prereq.in_dist   (integer, fk to dist.id)

  dist.id          (integer, id)
  dist.dist        (text, name with hyphens, no file extension)

Modules belong to distributions, and prerequisites are pointers
from distributions to modules.

List of nodes (with labels):

  SELECT id, module FROM modules;

List of edges:

  SELECT
    m1.id,
    m2.id
  FROM
    modules AS m1, modules AS m2, prereq
  WHERE
    m1.dist         = prereq.dist AND
    prereq.requires = m2.module





From david at fetter.org  Wed Aug 25 15:17:42 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:17:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100825221742.GA13259@fetter.org>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 03:04:24PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 14:42, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> > Popular CPAN modules get packaged and shipped with OSs, which means
> > that to an excellent first approximation no one downloads them from
> > CPAN.
> 
> (Except for upgrades)

Packagers ship those, too.

> Also package managers muddy the waters.
> 
> That said, I'd rather see what's there than nothing at all. I'm sure
> there's *some* use in it, the paranoia in the lanl.gov page
> notwithstanding.

It's not about paranoia.  It's about the down sides of ass-u-me'ing
that download statistics contain useful information.  In the case of
popular CPAN modules, they do not.

More on the silliness of download stats here:

http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/database-soup/the-count-of-downloadia-part-i-5621
http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/database-soup/the-count-of-downloadia-part-ii-5814

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Aug 25 15:22:08 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:22:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <20100825221742.GA13259@fetter.org>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100825221742.GA13259@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim0RDbwMeu7Xgvq2vc9hiiv1xrqaKpyU_QzZ+Hp@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 15:17, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> It's not about paranoia. ?It's about the down sides of ass-u-me'ing
> that download statistics contain useful information. ?In the case of
> popular CPAN modules, they do not.

The Libetarian and Mathematician in me are happy to make up their own minds :-)

Just because it's not a perfect or even close to perfect doesn't mean
intelligent people can't derive useful data from it. Or, by
identifying where those weaknesses are *based on existing data*, work
toward a system that produces tastier breadcrumbs.

PS worse is better

> More on the silliness of download stats here:
>
> http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/database-soup/the-count-of-downloadia-part-i-5621
> http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/database-soup/the-count-of-downloadia-part-ii-5814

Interesting stuff, largely solved, I think, by registration (with its
own trade-offs, of course)

Paul

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Aug 25 15:31:04 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:31:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201008252231.o7PMV4v2082047@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:

> > Popular CPAN modules get packaged and shipped with OSs, which means
> > that to an excellent first approximation no one downloads them from
> > CPAN.
>
> (Except for upgrades)
>
> Also package managers muddy the waters.
>
> That said, I'd rather see what's there than nothing at all.

Dunno.  I can go either way on this.  At the very least you've
got to name the metric something that makes sure it doesn't
misused, ala bogomips and kwalitee.  Pseudo-buzz?  Ytiralupop?
Curbstone?

Whenever this idea comes up, it tends to get dismissed:

   http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=162449
   http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=275379

> I'm sure there's *some* use in it, the paranoia in the lanl.gov page
> notwithstanding.

When you get to the point where gaming the system can make or break
carreers, it isn't paranoia to assume that that's going to happen.


From miyagawa at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 15:34:39 2010
From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:34:39 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <20100825221742.GA13259@fetter.org>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100825221742.GA13259@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikD8y4APXj-cv52sqGL_azuhWXQLygttnRV=Sap@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:17 PM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:

> It's not about paranoia. ?It's about the down sides of ass-u-me'ing
> that download statistics contain useful information. ?In the case of
> popular CPAN modules, they do not.

Here's the top 25 of cpanmetadb queries (used by cpanminus) for the
last 7 days, uniqified per IP.

If you call this a useless data at all, that's fine. I think we can
extract very interesting data out of this, especially when we track
and plot counts per few distributions over time, etc.

235 App::cpanminus
176 ExtUtils::ParseXS
175 Module::Build
170 Test::Exception
169 ExtUtils::CBuilder
162 Moose
162 Class::MOP
148 Sub::Uplevel
146 Test::Warn
145 LWP
144 Try::Tiny
134 Tree::DAG_Node
132 Package::DeprecationManager
127 URI
124 Test::Deep
123 Test::NoWarnings
122 HTML::Parser
121 Test::Tester
121 Devel::StackTrace
118 Test::SharedFork
118 Package::Stash
117 Params::Validate
117 List::MoreUtils
117 File::ShareDir
116 Sub::Exporter

(There were 1124 unique IPs)

-- 
Tatsuhiko Miyagawa

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Aug 25 15:36:00 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:36:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] the next generation cpan (research and discussion)
In-Reply-To: <201008252231.o7PMV4v2082047@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <201008251913.o7PJDh13078068@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<201008252130.o7PLUhgx080727@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100825214222.GF27147@fetter.org>
	<AANLkTikZfy87M5kU3Mzac18FwouNaPRNwnibK1eWvZF8@mail.gmail.com>
	<201008252231.o7PMV4v2082047@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimtNrvOcbGYuPYNz18HC2Wp09NVCuig9h=3XU0Y@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 15:31, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> I'm sure there's *some* use in it, the paranoia in the lanl.gov page
>> notwithstanding.
>
> When you get to the point where gaming the system can make or break
> carreers, it isn't paranoia to assume that that's going to happen.

(Just to be clear, my reference continues to be entirely in the realm
of CPAN, not PhD papers or what-not :-). I would be extremely
surprised if publishing CPAN access stats hurt anyone's career!)

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug 25 18:46:06 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:46:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Our group stats from Meetup
Message-ID: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>

I was tinkering with the Meetup stats for this group today, and was
able to notice some trends that indicate we are still growing
steadily.

Here is the number of active and total members:

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/stats/members/?range=all

Here is the number of RSVPs graphed:

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/stats/rsvps/?range=all

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug 25 21:45:22 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:45:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [pm_groups] Pittsburgh Perl Workshop 2010
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikYDfn_VKU7H7xsCnKt1G4bCAfarsDWPRWoN57+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikYDfn_VKU7H7xsCnKt1G4bCAfarsDWPRWoN57+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimCErQ3Rt0LQ5_r5iQcf2GmPvCpTGLNmzSCaFcR@mail.gmail.com>

This looks interesting, Pittsburgh.pm is a strong PM group.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert Blackwell <robert at robertblackwell.com>
Date: Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 7:00 PM
Subject: [pm_groups] Pittsburgh Perl Workshop 2010
To: pm_groups at pm.org



The Pittsburgh Perl Workshop is a low-cost technical conference held
at the Carnegie Mellon University's Oakland Campus. The workshop will
be held on October 9?10 2010.
We are happy to have Larry Wall Keynotote PPW 2010 in the new The
Gates and Hillman Centers.

* Talk Proposals
* Classes
* Hack-a-thons
* Sponsors


* Talk Proposals
We do not have deadline for talk proposals yet but please send them
sooner than later or you may miss your chance to speak.
The Pittsburgh Perl Workshop 2010 is the perfect opportunity to share
your ideas, code, and projects with masses of code-loving Perl
hackers. Shouldn't you have a speaking slot at this year's event?
Shouldn't you experience the full, PPW-powered glory that only
speakers can know?
Of course you should!
Haven't you ...
done interesting stuff for Perl?
written cool code?
seen the future of Perl?
got a story to tell?
got a trick to share?
In fact, if you have anything to say that would interest Perl people,
we want to hear you say it!
Just go to http://pghpw.org and submit a talk proposal. It's that easy.
But don't delay. Get your proposal in soon -- or else you might miss out.

* Classes
This year we are offering great classes. ?We will have more details on
the website soon.
Dan Klein is back teaching From Zero to Perl.
Dave Rolsky teaching Into to Moose.

* Hack-a-thons
The details for hack-a-thons are still developing. ?If you want help
organizing?a hack-a-thon please let us know.


* Sponsors
If you are interested in sponsoring PPW 2010 please let us know.


We look forward to seeing you there.
Robert

--
Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org

pm_groups mailing list
pm_groups at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Aug 25 21:47:36 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:47:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Silicon Valley Perl Meeting
Message-ID: <AANLkTinH+qFTaoqOFCYFZQ77pVN1YF6SAyB7R1pFVHzn@mail.gmail.com>

There's a Silicon Valley Perl Meetup group meeting on Thursday Sep 2
at 7:30 pm in San Jose.  Anyone interested in carpooling down there,
or taking the Caltrain bullet?

http://www.meetup.com/SVPerl/calendar/14184231/

From extasia at extasia.org  Fri Aug 27 10:02:04 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:02:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] trying to install font in cygwin without a cygwin
	font package
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=rZXR29TKap0n97hFDy+Fiyb67ccKrEMG5ZO5J@mail.gmail.com>

greetings,

font newbie seeks method of adding the font Anonymous
(http://www.ms-studio.com/FontSales/anonymous.html) to his
cygwin-on-xp installation.

still looking for documentation on adding fonts to cygwin when i don't
have a cygwin package them.

here's what i've tried:

* downloaded the windows version of the zip file on the web page above[1]
* extracted Anonymous.ttf from the zip file and copied it to
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/ where i saw other *.ttf files
* restarted the cygwin X server
* started xfontsel

unfortunately, i couldn't find anything that looked like Anonymous.

do i need to "recompile" or "restage" or some other type of re-
operation to get cygwin to recognize the font?

i see:

$ file $( pwd )/*
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/Anonymous.ttf: TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/Vera.ttf:      TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraBI.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraBd.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraIt.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraMoBI.ttf:  TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraMoBd.ttf:  TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraMoIt.ttf:  TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraMono.ttf:  TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraSe.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/VeraSeBd.ttf:  TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/encodings.dir: ASCII text
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/fonts.dir:     ASCII text
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/fonts.scale:   ASCII text
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luximb.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luximbi.ttf:   TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luximr.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luximri.ttf:   TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxirb.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxirbi.ttf:   TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxirr.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxirri.ttf:   TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxisb.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxisbi.ttf:   TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxisr.ttf:    TrueType font data
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/luxisri.ttf:   TrueType font data

when i look in the text files, i think, yes indeed, there's something
else i must do to "register" [?] the font with the system.

can anyone point me to information i could use to do this?

thanks,
david

p.s.  this page lists some awesome monospaced fonts:
     http://www.codeproject.com/KB/work/FontSurvey.aspx

[1] after downloading the windows version, i thought, maybe i should
try the mac os x version, since mac os x is unix, and this is for
cygwin, but i don't have the stuffit program on my xp work laptop.
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From lemseffert at sacsewer.com  Fri Aug 27 11:37:25 2010
From: lemseffert at sacsewer.com (Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA))
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:37:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Our group stats from Meetup
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E60D@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>

Good Afternoon All,
Is anyone familiar with TK?
Thanks 
T

-----Original Message-----
From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:46 PM
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: [sf-perl] Our group stats from Meetup

I was tinkering with the Meetup stats for this group today, and was
able to notice some trends that indicate we are still growing
steadily.

Here is the number of active and total members:

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/stats/members/?range=al
l

Here is the number of RSVPs graphed:

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/stats/rsvps/?range=all
_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
____________________________________________________________________________
EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by other
than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto.
_____________________________________________________________________________


From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Fri Aug 27 13:30:39 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:30:39 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Tk
In-Reply-To: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E60D@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
References: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E60D@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <201008272030.o7RKUdW5020390@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) <lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:

> Good Afternoon All,
> Is anyone familiar with TK?

I wouldn't say "familiar", but I used it a while back.  Feel free to hit
us with your question, the worst that can happen is we say "i dunno".


From lemseffert at sacsewer.com  Fri Aug 27 13:36:52 2010
From: lemseffert at sacsewer.com (Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA))
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:36:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Tk
In-Reply-To: <201008272030.o7RKUdW5020390@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E60D@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<201008272030.o7RKUdW5020390@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E645@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>

That is true the worst that can happen is you say "i dunno".
Ok here is my little delima.
I want to create a Table with the fields: Point Name, Point Description,
Point Status, and comments field.
I want to be able to enter it Point Name ..etc manually into the table.

Any help will be appreciated
Thank you 
T

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Brenner [mailto:doom at kzsu.stanford.edu] 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:31 PM
To: Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
Cc: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: Tk


Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) <lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:

> Good Afternoon All,
> Is anyone familiar with TK?

I wouldn't say "familiar", but I used it a while back.  Feel free to hit
us with your question, the worst that can happen is we say "i dunno".

____________________________________________________________________________
EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by other
than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto.
_____________________________________________________________________________


From garth.webb at gmail.com  Fri Aug 27 13:53:37 2010
From: garth.webb at gmail.com (Garth Webb)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:53:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Tk
In-Reply-To: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E645@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
References: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E60D@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<201008272030.o7RKUdW5020390@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E645@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik7eDcWzes1SxJ-XacAr9YvZv+EBqF7pSdJ2d4F@mail.gmail.com>

Yes that is possible to do with Perl/Tk.  I googled Perl/TK found a few
tutorials that will help you get started:

  http://www.bin-co.com/perl/perl_tk_tutorial/
  http://www.lehigh.edu/~sol0/ptk/perlmonth01/pm1.html

and of course the POD for TK itself:

  http://search.cpan.org/~ni-s/Tk-804.027/pod/UserGuide.pod

HTH

Garth

On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) <
lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:

> That is true the worst that can happen is you say "i dunno".
> Ok here is my little delima.
> I want to create a Table with the fields: Point Name, Point Description,
> Point Status, and comments field.
> I want to be able to enter it Point Name ..etc manually into the table.
>
> Any help will be appreciated
> Thank you
> T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Brenner [mailto:doom at kzsu.stanford.edu]
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:31 PM
> To: Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
> Cc: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
> Subject: Tk
>
>
> Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) <lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:
>
> > Good Afternoon All,
> > Is anyone familiar with TK?
>
> I wouldn't say "familiar", but I used it a while back.  Feel free to hit
> us with your question, the worst that can happen is we say "i dunno".
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential,
> and
> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
> copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by
> other
> than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> immediately
> and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
> attachments thereto.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From szabgab at gmail.com  Sat Aug 28 21:30:57 2010
From: szabgab at gmail.com (Gabor Szabo)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 07:30:57 +0300
Subject: [sf-perl] Our group stats from Meetup
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=TXW15HhyxNYMtThfUt3HXW=EhdHn6NPXbGQw8@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> I was tinkering with the Meetup stats for this group today, and was
> able to notice some trends that indicate we are still growing
> steadily.
>
> Here is the number of active and total members:
>
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/stats/members/?range=all
>
> Here is the number of RSVPs graphed:
>
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/stats/rsvps/?range=all

It would be interesting if you could write about this to the pm_groups
list or a blog entry that many others can see.

regards
   Gabor

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Aug 30 19:06:00 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:06:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Good venues for a hackathon for this month's meeting?
Message-ID: <AANLkTine-j4rF3N4YvyO7P-xSVHFmfGuQSgTAXp_Deiy@mail.gmail.com>

I've been looking around to find a good venue for a hackathon or other
alternative style for for this month's SF.pm meeting.  SixApart isn't
available this month, and some of our other venues are well suited to
talks but not general hacking, so I was thinking of maybe a pizza
joint somewhere, or a large coffee shop that can accomodate our 20-30
person flash mob.

Any ideas?

From swartz at pobox.com  Mon Aug 30 19:12:59 2010
From: swartz at pobox.com (Jonathan Swartz)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:12:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Good venues for a hackathon for this month's meeting?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTine-j4rF3N4YvyO7P-xSVHFmfGuQSgTAXp_Deiy@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTine-j4rF3N4YvyO7P-xSVHFmfGuQSgTAXp_Deiy@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B61DD464-265C-4102-A6D5-EBFBC1737595@pobox.com>

How about citizen space?
    
   http://citizenspace.us/

They have free wireless, several large conference tables as well as couches and beanbags, and you can reserve the space for nighttime events for a modest fee. SF Ruby Meetup has hosted hackathons there.

Jon

On Aug 30, 2010, at 7:06 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:

> I've been looking around to find a good venue for a hackathon or other
> alternative style for for this month's SF.pm meeting.  SixApart isn't
> available this month, and some of our other venues are well suited to
> talks but not general hacking, so I was thinking of maybe a pizza
> joint somewhere, or a large coffee shop that can accomodate our 20-30
> person flash mob.
> 
> Any ideas?
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Aug 30 19:31:31 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:31:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Good venues for a hackathon for this month's meeting?
In-Reply-To: <B61DD464-265C-4102-A6D5-EBFBC1737595@pobox.com>
References: <AANLkTine-j4rF3N4YvyO7P-xSVHFmfGuQSgTAXp_Deiy@mail.gmail.com>
	<B61DD464-265C-4102-A6D5-EBFBC1737595@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikrYLf+uP_H2WS388vYwtjROW4LYCaRb3wnSnSn@mail.gmail.com>

Definitely an option.  Do you know if they have deals for groups like
SF.pm as opposed to commercial customers?

Last time I was in Portland I went to the PDX Hackathon, which met at
the Lucky Lab pub.  That was a good venue since it had tables spread
out in kind of a meeting hall style.

The ideal venue would be somewhere that has wifi and ample space, and
we can offer patronage with food and beverage purchases.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Jonathan Swartz <swartz at pobox.com> wrote:
> How about citizen space?
>
> ? http://citizenspace.us/
>
> They have free wireless, several large conference tables as well as couches and beanbags, and you can reserve the space for nighttime events for a modest fee. SF Ruby Meetup has hosted hackathons there.
>
> Jon
>
> On Aug 30, 2010, at 7:06 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
>
>> I've been looking around to find a good venue for a hackathon or other
>> alternative style for for this month's SF.pm meeting. ?SixApart isn't
>> available this month, and some of our other venues are well suited to
>> talks but not general hacking, so I was thinking of maybe a pizza
>> joint somewhere, or a large coffee shop that can accomodate our 20-30
>> person flash mob.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
>

From lemseffert at sacsewer.com  Tue Aug 31 08:32:47 2010
From: lemseffert at sacsewer.com (Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA))
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:32:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Tk
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik7eDcWzes1SxJ-XacAr9YvZv+EBqF7pSdJ2d4F@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com><52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E60D@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net><201008272030.o7RKUdW5020390@kzsu.stanford.edu><52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E645@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<AANLkTik7eDcWzes1SxJ-XacAr9YvZv+EBqF7pSdJ2d4F@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E984@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>

Hello Garth,

Here is my Tk code, but I'm running some issue here..

Error: can't locate TK/TableMAtrix/Spreedsheet.pm

 

Any idea why?

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w

Use strict;

use Tk; 
use Tk::TableMatrix::Spreadsheet; 
$mw = MainWindow->new; 
$mw->configure(-title=>'Testing'); 
$mw->minsize(qw(500 200)); 
$menu = $mw->Frame()->pack(-side=>'top',-fill=>'x'); 
$menu_file = 
$menu->Menubutton(-text=>'File', 
 -tearoff=>'false' 
)->pack(-side=>'left'); 
$menu_file->command(-label=>'Exit',-command=>sub{$mw->destroy}); 
$frame = 
$mw->Frame(-height=>'10', 
 -width=>'30', 
 -relief=>'groove', 
 -borderwidth=>'3' 
)->pack(-fill=>'x',-pady=>'0'); 
@border = (0,0,0,1); 
$arrayVar->{"0,0"} = "%"; 
$arrayVar->{"0,1"} = "Artist"; 
$arrayVar->{"0,2"} = "Album"; 
$arrayVar->{"0,3"} = "Year"; 
$arrayVar->{"0,4"} = "Genre"; 
$table = $frame->Scrolled('Spreadsheet', 
 -cols => 5, 
 -width => 5, 
-height => 6, 
 -titlerows => 1, 
 -variable => $arrayVar, 
 -selectmode => 'multiple', 
 -selectmode => 'extended', 
 -selecttype => 'row', 
 -resizeborders => 'col', 
 -bg => 'white', 
 -rowheight => 2, 
 -bd => \@border, 
 -justify => 'left', 
 -drawmode => 'compatible', 
 -wrap => 0, 
 -relief => 'solid' 
)->pack(-fill=>'both'); 
$table->rowHeight(0,1); 
$table->tagRow('title',0); 
$table->tagConfigure('title', -bd=>2, -relief=>'raised'); 
$table->colWidth(0,5,3,6,4,10); 
#$table->selectionAnchor('topleft'); 
$table->activate("1,0"); 
MainLoop(); 

 

 

From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org] On
Behalf Of Garth Webb
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:54 PM
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Tk

 

Yes that is possible to do with Perl/Tk. I googled Perl/TK found a few
tutorials that will help you get started:

 

http://www.bin-co.com/perl/perl_tk_tutorial/
<http://www.bin-co.com/perl/perl_tk_tutorial/> 

http://www.lehigh.edu/~sol0/ptk/perlmonth01/pm1.html
<http://www.lehigh.edu/~sol0/ptk/perlmonth01/pm1.html> 

 

and of course the POD for TK itself:

 

http://search.cpan.org/~ni-s/Tk-804.027/pod/UserGuide.pod
<http://search.cpan.org/~ni-s/Tk-804.027/pod/UserGuide.pod> 

 

HTH

 

Garth

 

On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
<lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:

That is true the worst that can happen is you say "i dunno".
Ok here is my little delima.
I want to create a Table with the fields: Point Name, Point Description,
Point Status, and comments field.
I want to be able to enter it Point Name ..etc manually into the table.

Any help will be appreciated
Thank you
T


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Brenner [mailto:doom at kzsu.stanford.edu]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:31 PM
To: Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
Cc: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: Tk


Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) <lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:

> Good Afternoon All,
> Is anyone familiar with TK?

I wouldn't say "familiar", but I used it a while back. Feel free to hit
us with your question, the worst that can happen is we say "i dunno".

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From fobispo at isc.org  Tue Aug 31 08:39:33 2010
From: fobispo at isc.org (Francisco Obispo)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:39:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Tk
In-Reply-To: <52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E984@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
References: <AANLkTikhkqs0F2wKYPz1yj=cVE2rKTOTwbMCo+o_76CR@mail.gmail.com><52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E60D@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net><201008272030.o7RKUdW5020390@kzsu.stanford.edu><52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E645@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
	<AANLkTik7eDcWzes1SxJ-XacAr9YvZv+EBqF7pSdJ2d4F@mail.gmail.com>
	<52CCB635EFBCEA47966C6F04568FC63A0711E984@cosp-m-exch13.cospub.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <AC5B63FC-D990-4220-8FE0-793368C2956A@isc.org>

looks like Tk::TableMatrix::Spreadsheet is not installed:

# cpan Tk::TableMatrix::Spreadsheet

should do the trick



On Aug 31, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) wrote:

> Hello Garth,
> Here is my Tk code, but I?m running some issue here..
> Error: can?t locate TK/TableMAtrix/Spreedsheet.pm
>  
> Any idea why?
> #!/usr/local/bin/perl ?w
> 
> Use strict;
> 
> use Tk; 
> use Tk::TableMatrix::Spreadsheet; 
> $mw = MainWindow->new; 
> $mw->configure(-title=>'Testing'); 
> $mw->minsize(qw(500 200)); 
> $menu = $mw->Frame()->pack(-side=>'top',-fill=>'x'); 
> $menu_file = 
> $menu->Menubutton(-text=>'File', 
>  -tearoff=>'false' 
> )->pack(-side=>'left'); 
> $menu_file->command(-label=>'Exit',-command=>sub{$mw->destroy}); 
> $frame = 
> $mw->Frame(-height=>'10', 
>  -width=>'30', 
>  -relief=>'groove', 
>  -borderwidth=>'3' 
> )->pack(-fill=>'x',-pady=>'0'); 
> @border = (0,0,0,1); 
> $arrayVar->{"0,0"} = "%"; 
> $arrayVar->{"0,1"} = "Artist"; 
> $arrayVar->{"0,2"} = "Album"; 
> $arrayVar->{"0,3"} = "Year"; 
> $arrayVar->{"0,4"} = "Genre"; 
> $table = $frame->Scrolled('Spreadsheet', 
>  -cols => 5, 
>  -width => 5, 
> -height => 6, 
>  -titlerows => 1, 
>  -variable => $arrayVar, 
>  -selectmode => 'multiple', 
>  -selectmode => 'extended', 
>  -selecttype => 'row', 
>  -resizeborders => 'col', 
>  -bg => 'white', 
>  -rowheight => 2, 
>  -bd => \@border, 
>  -justify => 'left', 
>  -drawmode => 'compatible', 
>  -wrap => 0, 
>  -relief => 'solid' 
> )->pack(-fill=>'both'); 
> $table->rowHeight(0,1); 
> $table->tagRow('title',0); 
> $table->tagConfigure('title', -bd=>2, -relief=>'raised'); 
> $table->colWidth(0,5,3,6,4,10); 
> #$table->selectionAnchor('topleft'); 
> $table->activate("1,0"); 
> MainLoop();
> 
>  
>  
> From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org [mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+lemseffert=sacsewer.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Garth Webb
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:54 PM
> To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Tk
>  
> Yes that is possible to do with Perl/Tk. I googled Perl/TK found a few tutorials that will help you get started:
>  
> http://www.bin-co.com/perl/perl_tk_tutorial/
> http://www.lehigh.edu/~sol0/ptk/perlmonth01/pm1.html
>  
> and of course the POD for TK itself:
>  
> http://search.cpan.org/~ni-s/Tk-804.027/pod/UserGuide.pod
>  
> HTH
>  
> Garth
>  
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) <lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:
> That is true the worst that can happen is you say "i dunno".
> Ok here is my little delima.
> I want to create a Table with the fields: Point Name, Point Description,
> Point Status, and comments field.
> I want to be able to enter it Point Name ..etc manually into the table.
> 
> Any help will be appreciated
> Thank you
> T
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Brenner [mailto:doom at kzsu.stanford.edu]
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:31 PM
> To: Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA)
> Cc: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
> Subject: Tk
> 
> 
> Lemseffer. Tahar (SDA) <lemseffert at sacsewer.com> wrote:
> 
> > Good Afternoon All,
> > Is anyone familiar with TK?
> 
> I wouldn't say "familiar", but I used it a while back. Feel free to hit
> us with your question, the worst that can happen is we say "i dunno".
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
> copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by other
> than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
> 
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
> and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
> attachments thereto.
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>  
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

Francisco Obispo 
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