From josh at agliodbs.com Thu May 7 18:25:23 2009 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 18:25:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Discount code for OSCON Message-ID: <4A038A03.9050105@agliodbs.com> Postgres, Perlmongers, We have a discount code for OSCON: os09usrg That code will get you a 20% discount on registration, exclusive of other discounts. Hope to see you there. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. www.pgexperts.com From fred at redhotpenguin.com Thu May 7 21:01:36 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:01:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slides from April Meeting Message-ID: Not sure if David's slides were posted for the April meeting, but here is the link to slideshare: http://www.slideshare.net/j_david_lowe/how-to-hack-with-pack-and-unpack David - thanks for the great talk! From rdm at cfcl.com Mon May 11 11:49:26 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 11:49:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Linux Netbook Message-ID: We have a nice, barely used Linux netbook (hp 2133) that's looking for a new home. It's pre-installed with SuSE Enterprise Desktop Linux + Apache. According to the web, people have also put Ubuntu on these things with satisfactory results. We haven't been getting much traction from Craigslist; the Linux part seems to be a problem for a lot of people. Can anyone here help us find a home for this? It's a handy size for traveling. All info here: http://cfcl.com/twiki/bin/view/Vicki/HpMininote2133 -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon May 11 15:54:23 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:54:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] May Meeting is Moving! Message-ID: Greetings, Our May meetup was scheduled for the 26th, but because of a variety of reasons, the meeting is moving to June 2nd. Dan Dascalescu will give an introduction to the Catalyst framework. Please RSVP at the meetup site: http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/10389038/ Hope to see you there! From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue May 12 10:56:21 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 10:56:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Question of the week - Padre Message-ID: Has anyone here used the Padre editor? http://padre.perlide.org From not.com at gmail.com Tue May 12 11:53:31 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:53:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Question of the week - Padre In-Reply-To: <75cbfa570905121133w250a68dfo800bf4299ad26281@mail.gmail.com> References: <75cbfa570905121133w250a68dfo800bf4299ad26281@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75cbfa570905121153p4e5904e0yb8e311a1e4607e73@mail.gmail.com> been thinking I should check it out, but have not yet. I first heard about it in the context of perl6 syntax highlighting. (Not that I've gotten far in perl6, but I'm slowly working into it, that's a topic for some future lightning talk...) Padre has an experimental feature where it can use an outside process to parse what you're working on. Which you might also want to use if editing perl 5.10 which uses the "defined or" operator "//". And if you have C++ skills, now is the time to help wxWidgets get the recent perl parser from Scintilla, so the padre can use it- see http://padre.perlide.org/ticket/257 From rjray at blackperl.com Tue May 12 14:58:16 2009 From: rjray at blackperl.com (Randy J. Ray) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:58:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Question of the week - Padre In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A09F0F8.40300@blackperl.com> Fred Moyer wrote: > Has anyone here used the Padre editor? > > http://padre.perlide.org I have just recently started experimenting with it. So far, I am *very* impressed. The only issues I have had thus far are around mixing UTF-8 characters and non in a document (specifically, Russian and English), and as soon as I can distill the problem to a minimal repeatable series of steps I'll be reporting it. Granted, at this point I'm using it primarily as an editor, not a full-blown IDE like Eclipse (which I use for Java, PHP and generalized web bits). It's more like jEdit (which thus far still has the best support for editing raw XML of the various editors I've used) or vim. Not everything is there, yet... I tried the "lexically rename a variable" option but it couldn't seem to figure out what to do... I haven't been all over the list of open issues, so there may be someone working on this. Still, up to this point I've continued to use XEmacs largely because it had the best Perl support (though recently I've been collecting vim tips and hacks that have been bridging that gap). This might finally let me retire my .xemacs directory. Randy -- rjray at blackperl.com From david at fetter.org Tue May 12 15:02:05 2009 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:02:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Question of the week - Padre In-Reply-To: <4A09F0F8.40300@blackperl.com> References: <4A09F0F8.40300@blackperl.com> Message-ID: <20090512220205.GA22549@fetter.org> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 02:58:16PM -0700, Randy J. Ray wrote: > This might finally let me retire my .xemacs directory. Have you ever retired a human by mistake, Mr. Ray? Cheers, David. -- David Fetter http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate From andy at petdance.com Tue May 12 15:04:53 2009 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:04:53 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] Question of the week - Padre In-Reply-To: <20090512220205.GA22549@fetter.org> References: <4A09F0F8.40300@blackperl.com> <20090512220205.GA22549@fetter.org> Message-ID: <7595E85B-E5A7-4EB6-96B2-0F7D457DA5E5@petdance.com> On May 12, 2009, at 5:02 PM, David Fetter wrote: >> This might finally let me retire my .xemacs directory. > > Have you ever retired a human by mistake, Mr. Ray? Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your .xemacs directory. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.theworkinggeek.com => AIM:petdance From rjray at blackperl.com Tue May 12 15:05:36 2009 From: rjray at blackperl.com (Randy J. Ray) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:05:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Question of the week - Padre In-Reply-To: <20090512220205.GA22549@fetter.org> References: <4A09F0F8.40300@blackperl.com> <20090512220205.GA22549@fetter.org> Message-ID: <4A09F2B0.4000701@blackperl.com> David Fetter wrote: > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 02:58:16PM -0700, Randy J. Ray wrote: >> This might finally let me retire my .xemacs directory. > > Have you ever retired a human by mistake, Mr. Ray? Not by mistake, no. -- rjray at blackperl.com From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue May 12 20:49:34 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 20:49:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [ANNOUNCE] mod_perl 1.31 In-Reply-To: <4A0A3492.6010305@apache.org> References: <4A0A3492.6010305@apache.org> Message-ID: You heard it here first (well, almost) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Philippe M. Chiasson Date: Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:46 PM Subject: [ANNOUNCE] mod_perl 1.31 To: announce at perl.apache.org Cc: modperl List , dev at perl.apache.org The uploaded file ? ?mod_perl-1.31.tar.gz has entered CPAN as ?file: $CPAN/authors/id/G/GO/GOZER/mod_perl-1.31.tar.gz ?size: 389960 bytes ? md5: d2188bf500e9f00cd78dc97c3fbf6b97 It's finally here! After quite a few release candidates, I am happy to share with you all this new mod_perl release. Enjoy! Changes since 1.30: Fix static APACI build on Mac OS X. [Gozer] Fix XSS vulnerability in Apache::Status reported by Richard J. Brain, CVE-2009-0796 [Fred Moyer] On Win32, mod_perl.h needs to include before the perl headers, at least when built with USE_ITHREADS [Steve Hay] Win32 needs PERL_SYS_INIT/PERL_SYS_TERM calls when built with USE_ITHREADS [sic--that's different to USE_THREADS]. In fact, they ought to be always called if they are defined [Steve Hay] Fix potential segfault when the environment contains NULL values [Mike Schilli] Fix static APACI build against newer apache-1.3.38+ [Gozer] Fixed modules/regex.t test 4 on Win32 [Steve Hay] Avoid possible segfault when PerlFreshRestart is On. [Michael Rendell ] Prevent segfault when running with perl >= 5.9.3 [Steve Hay] Fix shared libary extensions on Win32 to be .dll not .so [Nikolay Ananiev ] Patch to mod_perl.dsp to remove /D _WINSOCK2API_ on Win32 for perl >= 5.8.6 [Steve Hay] -- Philippe M. Chiasson ? ? GPG: F9BFE0C2480E7680 1AE53631CB32A107 88C3A5A5 http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/ ? ? ? m/gozer\@(apache|cpan|ectoplasm)\.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 185 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vhr75 at yahoo.com Wed May 13 13:37:28 2009 From: vhr75 at yahoo.com (Victor Ramirez) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:37:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Linux Netbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8AA5B1D8D5BB4226AFEC91E7C1F97860@winxpmasterbed> Hello, I will gladly take the netbook. I can load Ubuntu on it for my kids! Cheers, Victor -----Original Message----- From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+vhr75=yahoo.com at pm.org [mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+vhr75=yahoo.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Rich Morin Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 11:49 AM To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org Subject: [sf-perl] Linux Netbook We have a nice, barely used Linux netbook (hp 2133) that's looking for a new home. It's pre-installed with SuSE Enterprise Desktop Linux + Apache. According to the web, people have also put Ubuntu on these things with satisfactory results. We haven't been getting much traction from Craigslist; the Linux part seems to be a problem for a lot of people. Can anyone here help us find a home for this? It's a handy size for traveling. All info here: http://cfcl.com/twiki/bin/view/Vicki/HpMininote2133 -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From rdm at cfcl.com Wed May 13 14:38:37 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:38:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Linux Netbook (sold) In-Reply-To: <8AA5B1D8D5BB4226AFEC91E7C1F97860@winxpmasterbed> References: <8AA5B1D8D5BB4226AFEC91E7C1F97860@winxpmasterbed> Message-ID: At 13:37 -0700 5/13/09, Victor Ramirez wrote: > I will gladly take the netbook. I can load Ubuntu on it for my kids! Sorry; it has already been sold. -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Thu May 14 09:13:38 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:13:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [oak perl] BALUG: Tu 2009-05-19 Cathy Malmrose, CEO of ZaReason In-Reply-To: <20090514074447.15242edh1qz8wmkg@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <20090514074447.15242edh1qz8wmkg@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Paoli Date: Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:44 AM Subject: [oak perl] BALUG: Tu 2009-05-19 Cathy Malmrose, CEO of ZaReason To: oakland at pm.org Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-05-19 Tu 2009-05-19 Cathy Malmrose, CEO of ZaReason For our 2009-05-19 BALUG meeting, we're excited to have Cathy Malmrose, CEO of ZaReason[1] as our guest speaker. ?ZaReason, Inc. is based in Berkeley, California, and builds and sells a variety of Linux hardware solutions, including servers, laptops, and desktops. ?Cathy, in addition to being CEO of ZaReason, runs a non-profit, Partimus[2], supporting technology in education. ?She has done much volunteer work with the nonprofit computer recycling organization Alameda County Computer Resource Center (ACCRC)[3], spent the 90s as a tech writer, and is also a self-identified Linuxchick[4]. 1. http://www.zareason.com/ 2. http://www.partimus.org/ 3. http://www.accrc.org/ 4. http://www.linuxchix.org/ So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP: ? ? ?rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... ? ? ?6:30pm ? ? ?Tuesday, May 19th, 2009 2009-05-19 ? ? ?Four Seas Restaurant ? ? ?731 Grant Ave. ? ? ?San Francisco, CA 94108 ? ? ?Easy $5 PARKING: ?Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13 Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org http://www.balug.org/ _______________________________________________ Oakland mailing list Oakland at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From woof at danlo.com Wed May 20 09:01:41 2009 From: woof at danlo.com (Daniel Lo) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:01:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? Message-ID: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> Hello, I've been snooping around for a new language to learn. While I superficially know a lot of languages or have studied them in the past, my hard core languages are Perl and Php. I have been thinking it is time to learn another language to my "hard core" list. I want to party move away from the scripting languages to diversify my skill set. As a final requirement, I need to be able find a job writing in this language. I've been snooping around and there appear to be 2 languages out there that interest me. "Lua" is a strong embedded language with salability and is being drafted in to more and more applications and games. http://www.lua.org (World of Warcraft, MySQL, etc...) "Erlang" is a strong HA/salability language that has a REALLY neat/cool architecture behind it. http://www.erlang.org (Telecom business, Yaws, etc..) From what I've heard from individual friends is that Erlang the better future of the two in terms of a job. I currently have a job and I have time to put into learning a new language. Does anyone have a language that they would like to suggest? -daniel -- Best regards, Daniel mailto:woof at danlo.com From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed May 20 09:07:12 2009 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:07:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? In-Reply-To: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> (Daniel Lo's message of "Wed, 20 May 2009 09:01:41 -0700") References: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> Message-ID: <864ovfsqq7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Lo writes: Daniel> I've been snooping around and there appear to be 2 languages out there Daniel> that interest me. Daniel> "Lua" is a strong embedded language with salability and is being Daniel> drafted in to more and more applications and games. http://www.lua.org Daniel> (World of Warcraft, MySQL, etc...) Daniel> "Erlang" is a strong HA/salability language that has a REALLY Daniel> neat/cool architecture behind it. http://www.erlang.org (Telecom Daniel> business, Yaws, etc..) Smalltalk. Definitely making a resurgence. Revenues for commercial Smalltalk companies went *up* in this past year, despite everything else going *down*. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed May 20 09:31:29 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:31:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? In-Reply-To: <864ovfsqq7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> <864ovfsqq7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Lo writes: > > Daniel> I've been snooping around and there appear to be 2 languages out there > Daniel> that interest me. > > Daniel> "Lua" is a strong embedded language with salability and is being > Daniel> drafted in to more and more applications and games. http://www.lua.org > Daniel> (World of Warcraft, MySQL, etc...) > > Daniel> "Erlang" is a strong HA/salability language that has a REALLY > Daniel> neat/cool architecture behind it. http://www.erlang.org (Telecom > Daniel> business, Yaws, etc..) > > Smalltalk. ?Definitely making a resurgence. ?Revenues for commercial Smalltalk > companies went *up* in this past year, despite everything else going *down*. Interesting, where did you find these statistics? From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed May 20 09:43:42 2009 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:43:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? In-Reply-To: (Fred Moyer's message of "Wed, 20 May 2009 09:31:29 -0700") References: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> <864ovfsqq7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <86zld7ragx.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred Moyer writes: >> Smalltalk. ?Definitely making a resurgence. ?Revenues for commercial >> Smalltalk companies went *up* in this past year, despite everything else >> going *down*. Fred> Interesting, where did you find these statistics? I'm in nearly daily contact with the marketing managers of both GemStone/S and Cincom VisualWorks. They've both made their upticks in business public information, so I'm free to share that. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From sphink at gmail.com Wed May 20 09:49:26 2009 From: sphink at gmail.com (Steve Fink) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:49:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? In-Reply-To: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> References: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> Message-ID: <7d7f2e8c0905200949v40453505lbcb04017f00ea74a@mail.gmail.com> Good question. I have a similar question, although my criteria are different enough that I won't clutter this thread with it. If marketability is your concern, you really can't beat knowing C or C++. Not just to be able to do things directly in those languages (or more likely, modify/work on existing things), but also because they'll complement your scripting skills. Some of that is obvious: you can embed and extend your scripting languages. But more important, IMHO, is the improvement to your breadth of understanding. Someone who understands what's going on both above and below the level of the script API has a chance of tackling a vastly wider range of tasks. C is better for this purpose than C++, because properly written C++ is a very very different language than properly written C, even though you *can* write either in a way very similar to the other. On the other hand, not knowing C is a good defense against being called upon to tackle annoying low-level tasks. Also, once you've gotten a good grasp of the low-level fundamentals, it's difficult to let go -- you'll approach everything with the mindset of needing to know what is *actually* happening down there. While that is good much of the time, it turns out to be a huge obstacle to picking up alternative high-level languages with very different ways of thinking, like Erlang, SML, Haskell, or Prolog. So if you're up for it, it might be better to learn one of those first and then C later. And for a totally different suggestion, C# really isn't a bad way to go. Personally, it doesn't do much for me because it's mainly usable on Windows, but if that doesn't bother you then it really has a lot to recommend it. It's seems to be much less of a walled garden than Java. Going even further out on a limb, you might consider something like CUDA or OpenCL. They're going to be more signficant in the future, and right now there is far less competition for that sort of expertise. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed May 20 10:07:42 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:07:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? In-Reply-To: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> References: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> Message-ID: This link might prove good reading for this topic: http://blog.timbunce.org/?s=popularity On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Daniel Lo wrote: > Hello, > > I've been snooping around for a new language to learn. While I superficially > know a lot of languages or have studied them in the past, my hard core languages > are Perl and Php. I have been thinking it is time to learn another language to > my "hard core" list. > > I want to party move away from the scripting languages to diversify my skill > set. As a final requirement, I need to be able find a job writing in this > language. > > I've been snooping around and there appear to be 2 languages out there that > interest me. > > "Lua" is a strong embedded language with salability and is being drafted in to > more and more applications and games. http://www.lua.org (World of Warcraft, > MySQL, etc...) > > "Erlang" is a strong HA/salability language that has a REALLY neat/cool > architecture behind it. http://www.erlang.org (Telecom business, Yaws, etc..) > > >From what I've heard from individual friends is that Erlang the better future of > the two in terms of a job. > > I currently have a job and I have time to put into learning a new language. Does > anyone have a language that they would like to suggest? > > > -daniel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > ?Daniel ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mailto:woof at danlo.com > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From rdm at cfcl.com Wed May 20 12:18:26 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:18:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? In-Reply-To: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> References: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> Message-ID: I realize that salability is a major concern, but I'd suggest adding a couple of other criteria into the mix. My take is that learning a new language isn't worthwhile unless it makes me think differently about programming. Erlang and Haskell certainly qualify; dunno about Lua. Perl 6 qualifies, as well, and builds on your knowledge of Perl 5. Another useful criterion is whether the language pleases you. A lot of the reason I use Ruby is that I like Matz's taste in language design. Pick languages that will be fun to use for a decade or two... -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From shlomif at iglu.org.il Wed May 20 13:03:51 2009 From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 23:03:51 +0300 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: New language to learn? Erlang? In-Reply-To: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> References: <1967679588.20090520090141@danlo.com> Message-ID: <200905202303.52041.shlomif@iglu.org.il> Hi Daniel! On Wednesday 20 May 2009 19:01:41 Daniel Lo wrote: > Hello, > > I've been snooping around for a new language to learn. While I > superficially know a lot of languages or have studied them in the past, my > hard core languages are Perl and Php. I have been thinking it is time to > learn another language to my "hard core" list. > > I want to party move away from the scripting languages to diversify my > skill set. As a final requirement, I need to be able find a job writing in > this language. > > I've been snooping around and there appear to be 2 languages out there that > interest me. > > "Lua" is a strong embedded language with salability and is being drafted in > to more and more applications and games. http://www.lua.org (World of > Warcraft, MySQL, etc...) > > "Erlang" is a strong HA/salability language that has a REALLY neat/cool > architecture behind it. http://www.erlang.org (Telecom business, Yaws, > etc..) > > >From what I've heard from individual friends is that Erlang the better > > future of > > the two in terms of a job. > > I currently have a job and I have time to put into learning a new language. > Does anyone have a language that they would like to suggest? > My 20 agoroth. I've studied Erlang during one weekend, and was impressed by its message passing mechanism - you can pass an object from one "process" (actually a thread) to another. I since then didn't really work with it, and forgot most of what I've learned. Someone I know said writing a 10 line script in Perl using Erlang took him 3 pages, back at the time it did not have a regular expression capability. I think a development version added it, and maybe it was released by now. But in general, Erlang would be a fine choice to learn. I started studying Lua, but studied simultaneously to Ruby, and so far been experimenting with Ruby mostly. For command line scripts, puzzle solvers, and solutions for Project Euler - not really web. Ruby has a lot of interesting differences from Perl 5 (which is what I'm used to) and I've taken some notes while reading the Pick Axe book. In my daily Ruby programming, I don't think I've ran into these differences a lot (except in the name of built-in methods) so I'm not sure I'm really exercising Ruby to its natural limits. Other options: 1. How well do you know ANSI C? Maybe you should learn it better, and contribute to open-source projects that are based on it? I think every programmer should learn C because it gives important insights for the lower- levels aspects of development (and is a good and essential stepping stone toward learning Assembly). C and especially C++ are still in a high demand in the industry, and are important languages to learn. 2. Scheme - you can learn Scheme from http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ , whose text is available online. SICP is a great book, and I've also taken two SICP courses which were enlightening. 3. Common Lisp - see: * http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ - Practical Common Lisp (text available online) - though it convinced me that Common Lisp was not very practical. * http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html - "On Lisp" (text available online) - I read it before I read "Practical CL", which was probably not a good idea. But "On Lisp" is a nice book, and show how cool CL can be. 4. I really liked Haskell back when I learned it. 5. I found working with Matlab's tensor operations enlightening, and Perl has something similar with PDL, and there are similar tools for other languages (like SciPy). There's also Octave, which aims to be a compatible open-source Matlab clone. 6. I started learning Prolog, but couldn't find a good tutorial for it online - they were all lacking - so I stopped. It seems an interesting language, though. ------------------ In regards to what Randal said about Smalltalk - it's very interesting, but I couldn't get along with it very well, so I abandoned it. (At least for now). Smalltalk requires a complete buyout into its mindset, which is very much unlike anything you are used to. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ "Star Trek: We, the Living Dead" - http://xrl.us/omqz4 God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Wed May 20 13:18:54 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:18:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo Message-ID: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> We need to submit some artwork to OSCON soon (we're trying to get into the .org pavilion). I think there are some problems with the logo that we have up on the web at the moment... at the very least the text needs to be changed (trying to be "sfpug" is a losing battle... we're "sfpm"). I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a "perl coat of arms": http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ Any comments? The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. From matt at lanier.org Wed May 20 13:24:46 2009 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: i don't think being the sfpug is a losing battle... there can be two of us. there was when we started, as well (the palm UG). the coat of arms is a great idea! m@ On Wed, 20 May 2009, Joe Brenner wrote: > > We need to submit some artwork to OSCON soon (we're trying to get > into the .org pavilion). > > I think there are some problems with the logo that we have up on the > web at the moment... at the very least the text needs to be changed > (trying to be "sfpug" is a losing battle... we're "sfpm"). > > I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a > "perl coat of arms": > > http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ > > Any comments? The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -- Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed May 20 13:28:39 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:28:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: > i don't think being the sfpug is a losing battle... there can be two of us. > ?there was when we started, as well (the palm UG). > > the coat of arms is a great idea! Makes me think we need a knight on a camel with the coat of arms as the shield... > > On Wed, 20 May 2009, Joe Brenner wrote: > >> >> We need to submit some artwork to OSCON soon (we're trying to get >> into the .org pavilion). >> >> I think there are some problems with the logo that we have up on the >> web at the moment... at the very least the text needs to be changed >> (trying to be "sfpug" is a losing battle... we're "sfpm"). >> >> I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a >> "perl coat of arms": >> >> ? ?http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ >> >> Any comments? ?The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >> > > -- > > Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From extasia at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:10:57 2009 From: extasia at gmail.com (David Alban) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:10:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0905201510n2b760a65k88a3abea6a452238@mail.gmail.com> i don't this has a chance of being the logo, but it amused me to picture a giant camel impaled on one of the towers of the gg bridge. (no i don't hate camels/animals/the bridge/perl) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Makes me think we need a knight on a camel with the coat of arms as > the shield... -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From rdm at cfcl.com Wed May 20 16:13:43 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:13:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: I really like the coat of arms - any chance of a T-shirt run? -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed May 20 16:42:53 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:42:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Rich Morin wrote: > I really like the coat of arms - any chance of a T-shirt run? Absolutely. Let's finalize the T-shirt design at the next meeting and figure out where to get them printed. From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Wed May 20 22:26:52 2009 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 22:26:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> Here's my contribution, FWIW. It incorporates both Joe's coat of arms and a less violent but vaguely similar alternative to David's suggestion. On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Rich Morin wrote: > > I really like the coat of arms - any chance of a T-shirt run? > > Absolutely. Let's finalize the T-shirt design at the next meeting and > figure out where to get them printed. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quinn at fairpath.com Thu May 21 09:55:54 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:55:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> Hey, everyone, Sorry I'm catching up late. Jeff Bragg wrote: > It incorporates both Joe's coat of arms and a less violent but vaguely similar alternative to > David's suggestion. Huh? A coat of arms' association with violence is vestigial at best. The comparison is like saying that an Edwardian dandy's cane is violent because it evolved from an Elizabethan nobleman's sword. In any case, O'Reilly "maintain[s] the trademark on the use of camel in association with Perl." They tolerate its use by Perl Mongers groups, but anything that borders on the commercial could be dicey. This is a good reason to avoid camels. It's also the reason the Perl onion was invented: to have a symbol that was owned by the Perl Foundation and truly free to use for the community . However, the Perl Foundation hasn't really lived up to this vision; it's very restrictive about giving out hi-res (and SVG) onion images. See http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark . So it would be really nice to have our own logo that is camel- and onion-free. Joe's fulfills those criteria, and it's very visually distinctive. I'm JAGM (just another group member), but I really like Joe's contribution. YMMV. In any case, thanks to Jeff for putting in the work on an alternate design--it's always good to have alternatives. And thanks to everyone for their feedback. I love that I am totally superfluous to this group now ("'Now?'" people say ;) ) PS: Regarding T-shirts: I used to print shirts on Goodstorm, before they were bought by Zazzle. I don't know how well Zazzle works, but Goodstorm worked like a charm. I like that they (still) offer American Apparel, in a variety of cuts and colors--not the bag-shaped unisex T-shirts you often see at cons. -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web development http://fairpath.com/ 510-520-5217 From andy at petdance.com Thu May 21 09:58:21 2009 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:58:21 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On May 21, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: > However, the Perl Foundation hasn't really lived up to > this vision; it's very restrictive about giving out hi-res (and SVG) > onion images. See http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark . As the former PR guy for TPF, I've never found that to be the case. Did you ask someone and get turned down? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.theworkinggeek.com => AIM:petdance From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Thu May 21 10:02:27 2009 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:02:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f8a56f70905211002i6bf3ea88j9a89deb381b2d98@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: > Hey, everyone, > > Sorry I'm catching up late. > > Jeff Bragg wrote: > > > It incorporates both Joe's coat of arms and a less violent but vaguely > similar alternative to > > David's suggestion. > > Huh? A coat of arms' association with violence is vestigial at best. > The comparison is like saying that an Edwardian dandy's cane is > violent because it evolved from an Elizabethan nobleman's sword. "...it amused me to picture a giant camel impaled on one of the towers of the gg bridge." I would consider impaling violent. I'm not judging, nor trying to imply that the image or statement in any way characterizes you, simply saying that impaling generally comes up in a context of violence (e.g. Vlad the Impaler). > > > In any case, O'Reilly "maintain[s] the trademark on the use of camel > in association with Perl." They tolerate its use by Perl Mongers > groups, but anything that borders on the commercial could be dicey. > This is a good reason to avoid camels. Fair enough. > > > It's also the reason the Perl onion was invented: to have a symbol > that was owned by the Perl Foundation and truly free to use for the > community . However, the Perl Foundation hasn't really lived up to > this vision; it's very restrictive about giving out hi-res (and SVG) > onion images. See http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark . > > So it would be really nice to have our own logo that is camel- and > onion-free. Joe's fulfills those criteria, and it's very visually > distinctive. I'm JAGM (just another group member), but I really like > Joe's contribution. YMMV. > > In any case, thanks to Jeff for putting in the work on an alternate > design--it's always good to have alternatives. And thanks to everyone > for their feedback. I love that I am totally superfluous to this > group now ("'Now?'" people say ;) ) yw > > > PS: Regarding T-shirts: I used to print shirts on Goodstorm, before > they were bought by Zazzle. I don't know how well Zazzle works, but > Goodstorm worked like a charm. I like that they (still) offer > American Apparel, in a variety of cuts and colors--not the bag-shaped > unisex T-shirts you often see at cons. > > -- > Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC > Full-stack web development > http://fairpath.com/ > 510-520-5217 > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Thu May 21 10:27:02 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:27:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <2f8a56f70905211002i6bf3ea88j9a89deb381b2d98@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> <2f8a56f70905211002i6bf3ea88j9a89deb381b2d98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/5/21 Jeff Bragg : > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: >> In any case, O'Reilly "maintain[s] the trademark on the use of camel >> in association with Perl." ?They tolerate its use by Perl Mongers >> groups, but anything that borders on the commercial could be dicey. >> This is a good reason to avoid camels. > > Fair enough. I don't think there is really a need for concern here, unless we do a run of several hundred T-shirts and start selling them online. O'Reilly has been generous to our group with donations of new releases, and I can't imagine that they would be upset if do a run of a few dozen T-shirts (if that) with a camel on it for our group members. For O'Reilly (or the Perl Foundation) to get upset because we make a few T-shirts for our group members really goes against the open source roots of both organizations, and wreaks of news events such as DMCA takedown notices for events where "Happy Birthday" is sung without a license (that song is copyrighted btw - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You) Now if we setup an online shop and start pushing that to other groups (or did a run for YAPC or another event), I could see it becoming a valid concern, but we can deal with compliance if that time comes. I don't think it should hinder our creativity in making a few T-shirts for group members. So Joe and Jeff (and anyone else), keep the great ideas coming! From fred at redhotpenguin.com Thu May 21 10:53:00 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:53:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> <2f8a56f70905211002i6bf3ea88j9a89deb381b2d98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Here's a good example of another PM group using the onion on their website in a manner that isn't consistent with the Perl Foundation logos: http://london.pm.org/ And Seattle.pm uses the camel: http://seattleperl.org/ I don't think there is much to worry about. If someone objects, we'll make the necessary changes. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > 2009/5/21 Jeff Bragg : >> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: >>> In any case, O'Reilly "maintain[s] the trademark on the use of camel >>> in association with Perl." ?They tolerate its use by Perl Mongers >>> groups, but anything that borders on the commercial could be dicey. >>> This is a good reason to avoid camels. >> >> Fair enough. > > I don't think there is really a need for concern here, unless we do a > run of several hundred T-shirts and start selling them online. > O'Reilly has been generous to our group with donations of new > releases, and I can't imagine that they would be upset if do a run of > a few dozen T-shirts (if that) with a camel on it for our group > members. > > For O'Reilly (or the Perl Foundation) to get upset because we make a > few T-shirts for our group members really goes against the open source > roots of both organizations, and wreaks of news events such as DMCA > takedown notices for events where "Happy Birthday" is sung without a > license (that song is copyrighted btw - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You) > > Now if we setup an online shop and start pushing that to other groups > (or did a run for YAPC or another event), I could see it becoming a > valid concern, but we can deal with compliance if that time comes. ?I > don't think it should hinder our creativity in making a few T-shirts > for group members. ?So Joe and Jeff (and anyone else), keep the great > ideas coming! > From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Thu May 21 10:54:58 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:54:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905211755.n4LHswI2067529@kzsu.stanford.edu> Jeff Bragg wrote: > Here's my > contribution, FWIW. It incorporates both Joe's coat of arms and a less > violent but vaguely similar alternative to David's suggestion. Hm... the association between camel's humps and the golden gate bridges towers is a very clever thought... I'm a little skeptical of the superimposition, though... I think you'll have trouble scaling it down and maintaining any clarity. Also, like other people here, I've got some reservations about the camel as an O'Reilly trademark, but more about that later... From quinn at fairpath.com Thu May 21 10:55:44 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:55:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090521175544.GA14746@tao-2.local> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:58:21AM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > On May 21, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: > >> However, the Perl Foundation hasn't really lived up to >> this vision; it's very restrictive about giving out hi-res (and SVG) >> onion images. See http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark . > > > As the former PR guy for TPF, I've never found that to be the case. Did > you ask someone and get turned down? No, I didn't. (When I was president, I did ask for the large and SVG logos, and I got them in a matter of days.) Moreover, I should state that I like TPF a lot. :) I should be clear: the Perl Foundation has always adhered to its stated policy: The Perl logo, the Perl Foundation logo, and the bare onion logo are available for use by Perl Mongers, PerlMonks, and Perl.org, which are part of TPF. What I was trying to say (badly) is that I find this policy restrictive. It's not fatal; it's just a pain. It's a bit like the difference between downloading free source code instantly and having to ask for permission. So in that sense the onion is "a symbol that was owned by the Perl Foundation and truly free to use for the community." It's just that it comes with some restrictions, one of which is that the community is defined as Perl Mongers, PerlMonks, and Perl.org, not anyone else, and specifically not "individual members" ( http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark ). I understand that this policy is intended to protect the logo from losing its association with the Perl Foundation or being used in undesirable ways. That's a legitimate point of view. But the policy also means that the logo can't be used for a lot of things that are Perl (Perl-powered web sites, Perl advocacy sites, Perl free software projects, and, yes, commercial sites). There's no widely recognized symbol for Perl in those contexts. There's a need that's not being served. So it would be nice to have a logo that just means "Hey, this is Perl," that you can just download for free and use. Again, there are two points of view, and both are legitimate. It's a question of how defensive you want to be about potential misuse--also a question of TPF's branding. So maybe the solution is to have two logos: one for TPF, one distinctive one for "whatever you want." The logo that SF.pmers are developing could fill that latter role. I hope this makes sense now. TPF aren't baddies; they just have a logo policy that doesn't work for us. That's because they have different goals. SF.pm can make a logo with fewer restrictions that suits certain needs better. Thanks, -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web development http://fairpath.com/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at fairpath.com Thu May 21 11:05:43 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:05:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <2f8a56f70905202226n64a4e648o38908118195aebd0@mail.gmail.com> <6ebbd8770905210955k3ef741d6o86b59d9d4e4b78c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6ebbd8770905211105o7ba110eatd5bd5a57f188263d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:58:21AM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > On May 21, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: > >> However, the Perl Foundation hasn't really lived up to >> this vision; it's very restrictive about giving out hi-res (and SVG) >> onion images. See http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark . > > > As the former PR guy for TPF, I've never found that to be the case. Did > you ask someone and get turned down? No, I didn't. (When I was president, I did ask for the large and SVG logos, and I got them in a matter of days.) Moreover, I should state that I like TPF a lot. :) I should be clear: the Perl Foundation has always adhered to its stated policy: The Perl logo, the Perl Foundation logo, and the bare onion logo are available for use by Perl Mongers, PerlMonks, and Perl.org, which are part of TPF. What I was trying to say (badly) is that I find this policy restrictive. It's not fatal; it's just a pain. It's a bit like the difference between downloading free source code instantly and having to ask for permission. So in that sense the onion is "a symbol that was owned by the Perl Foundation and truly free to use for the community." It's just that it comes with some restrictions, one of which is that the community is defined as Perl Mongers, PerlMonks, and Perl.org--not anyone else, and specifically not "individual members" ( http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark ). I understand that this policy is intended to protect the logo from losing its association with the Perl Foundation or being used in undesirable ways. That's a legitimate point of view. But the policy also means that the logo can't be used for a lot of things that are Perl (Perl-powered web sites, Perl advocacy sites, Perl free software projects, and, yes, commercial sites). There's no widely recognized symbol for Perl in those contexts. There's a need that's not being served. It would be nice to have a logo that just means "Hey, this is Perl," that you can just download for free and use. Again, there are two points of view, and both are legitimate. It's a question of how defensive you want to be about potential misuse--also a question of TPF's branding. So maybe the solution is to have two logos: one for TPF, and a distinctive one for "whatever you want." The logo that SF.pmers are developing could fill that latter role. I hope this makes sense now. TPF aren't baddies; they just have a logo policy that doesn't work for us. That's because they have different goals. SF.pm can make a logo with fewer restrictions that suits certain needs better. Thanks, -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web development http://fairpath.com/ 510-520-5217 From josh at agliodbs.com Thu May 21 11:26:55 2009 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:26:55 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4A159CEF.3000004@agliodbs.com> Joe, > I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a > "perl coat of arms": > > http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ > > Any comments? The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. Wow, the ultimate bike-shedding argument begins! I think the logo is fine. Go for it. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. www.pgexperts.com From bob.goolsby at gmail.com Thu May 21 14:21:58 2009 From: bob.goolsby at gmail.com (Bob goolsby) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:21:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <1a208dd0905211421i698f11bahb4eb5ab6daeee6ad@mail.gmail.com> Purpure embattled in chief, a shakefork VERT, three Sigils Or. Please, the Normal Rules of Heraldry prohibit colour-on-colour and metal-on-metal for a reason -- no contrast in situations where rapid identification of friend or foe was a matter of life and death. Change the shakefork to Or (gold) and not only is it Heraldically 'legal', it also right classy. Bob Goolsby ex Morsullus Herald, S.C.A. On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > We need to submit some artwork to OSCON soon (we're trying to get > into the .org pavilion). > > I think there are some problems with the logo that we have up on the > web at the moment... at the very least the text needs to be changed > (trying to be "sfpug" is a losing battle... we're "sfpm"). > > I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a > "perl coat of arms": > > ? ? http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ > > Any comments? ?The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri May 22 08:05:55 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:05:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [pm_groups] Fwd: Adding Perl support for Google App Engine In-Reply-To: References: <4A16A699.9000504@goebel.ws> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jay Hannah Date: Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:53 AM Subject: [pm_groups] Fwd: Adding Perl support for Google App Engine To: pm_groups at pm.org Feel free to distribute to your groups if you like. ?Thanks, j Begin forwarded message: > > From: Garrett Goebel > Date: May 22, 2009 8:20:25 AM CDT > To: kc at pm.org > > Votes for supporting Perl is in 3rd place behind PHP and Ruby in Google App Engine's "Open List" of issues. Perl is less than 300 votes behind Ruby. If you'd like to help change that... vote and spread the word... > > See: http://ergoletterbag.blogspot.com/2009/05/adding-perl-support-to-google-app.html -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri May 22 08:12:02 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:12:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [pm_groups] Fwd: Adding Perl support for Google App Engine In-Reply-To: References: <4A16A699.9000504@goebel.ws> Message-ID: Note - you need to be logged in to add a star. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Jay Hannah > Date: Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:53 AM > Subject: [pm_groups] Fwd: Adding Perl support for Google App Engine > To: pm_groups at pm.org > > > Feel free to distribute to your groups if you like. ?Thanks, > > j > > > Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: Garrett Goebel >> Date: May 22, 2009 8:20:25 AM CDT >> To: kc at pm.org >> >> Votes for supporting Perl is in 3rd place behind PHP and Ruby in Google App Engine's "Open List" of issues. Perl is less than 300 votes behind Ruby. If you'd like to help change that... vote and spread the word... >> >> See: http://ergoletterbag.blogspot.com/2009/05/adding-perl-support-to-google-app.html > > -- > Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org > > pm_groups mailing list > pm_groups at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri May 22 09:25:53 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 09:25:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [pm_groups] Fwd: Adding Perl support for Google App Engine In-Reply-To: References: <4A16A699.9000504@goebel.ws> Message-ID: Another quick note - you have to be logged in with a Google account. Not a Gmail account, not a Google Apps account, but a regular Google account (there were three different types last time I checked... go figure... Google are you listening?). The list is here - click 'Sign In' on the upper right. If it seems like I'm putting a lot of effort out there to make this simple - I am :) Got about half a dozen off list replies asking how the heck do you login and vote on this thing. http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Note - you need to be logged in to add a star. > > On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Jay Hannah >> Date: Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:53 AM >> Subject: [pm_groups] Fwd: Adding Perl support for Google App Engine >> To: pm_groups at pm.org >> >> >> Feel free to distribute to your groups if you like. ?Thanks, >> >> j >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>> From: Garrett Goebel >>> Date: May 22, 2009 8:20:25 AM CDT >>> To: kc at pm.org >>> >>> Votes for supporting Perl is in 3rd place behind PHP and Ruby in Google App Engine's "Open List" of issues. Perl is less than 300 votes behind Ruby. If you'd like to help change that... vote and spread the word... >>> >>> See: http://ergoletterbag.blogspot.com/2009/05/adding-perl-support-to-google-app.html >> >> -- >> Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org >> >> pm_groups mailing list >> pm_groups at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups >> > From not.com at gmail.com Fri May 22 11:17:21 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 11:17:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [pm_groups] Fwd: Adding Perl support for Google App Engine In-Reply-To: References: <4A16A699.9000504@goebel.ws> Message-ID: <75cbfa570905221117h33534a73l91f0ce87c00252ee@mail.gmail.com> If only parrot were further along, we could have them all! vote your conscience, mine says to click that star next to perl. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Fri May 22 15:51:31 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:51:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <1a208dd0905211421i698f11bahb4eb5ab6daeee6ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <1a208dd0905211421i698f11bahb4eb5ab6daeee6ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905222251.n4MMpVI5091543@kzsu.stanford.edu> > Please, the Normal Rules of Heraldry prohibit colour-on-colour and > metal-on-metal What, doesn't Kryptonite Green count as metal? (How about oxidized copper?) > Change the shakefork to Or (gold) and not only is it Heraldically > 'legal', it also right classy. I gave it a try, and can't say it grabs me, but I put a version of it up here anyway: http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ (One of the nice things about not caring about "trademarks" is nothing requires us to have only one symbol...) Bob goolsby wrote: > Purpure embattled in chief, a shakefork VERT, three Sigils Or. > Please, the Normal Rules of Heraldry prohibit colour-on-colour and > metal-on-metal for a reason -- no contrast in situations where rapid > identification of friend or foe was a matter of life and death. > Change the shakefork to Or (gold) and not only is it Heraldically > 'legal', it also right classy. > > > Bob Goolsby > ex Morsullus Herald, S.C.A. > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > > > We need to submit some artwork to OSCON soon (we're trying to get > > into the .org pavilion). > > > > I think there are some problems with the logo that we have up on the > > web at the moment... at the very least the text needs to be changed > > (trying to be "sfpug" is a losing battle... we're "sfpm"). > > > > I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a > > "perl coat of arms": > > > > http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ > > > > Any comments? The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Fri May 22 15:58:45 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:58:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <4A159CEF.3000004@agliodbs.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4A159CEF.3000004@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: <200905222258.n4MMwja3091636@kzsu.stanford.edu> Josh Berkus wrote: > > I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a > > "perl coat of arms": > > > > http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ > > > > Any comments? The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. > > Wow, the ultimate bike-shedding argument begins! Actually, I expected worse. In particular, I expect a longer and duller argument about trademarks, but Quinn covered it really well, so I didn't have to. Anyway, in case it's not clear, I'm working entirely with images I've drawn and photos I've taken -- the one exception being the map of San Francisco I used, which is from a USGS topo map that's in the public domain. My intention is to "license" this stuff in the broadest way possible so that anyone who wants to use it for any purpose can just do it, without thinking much about legalities. (From my point of veiw, even the Creative Commons licenses are kind of pernicious: they encourage people to slap "attribution required" and/or "non-commercial use only" restrictions on every stupid little snapshot...) > I think the logo is fine. Go for it. Yeah, I'm going to have to just pick one and send it in to OSCON. We, of course, can always change it later. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri May 22 16:41:45 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:41:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <200905222258.n4MMwja3091636@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4A159CEF.3000004@agliodbs.com> <200905222258.n4MMwja3091636@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > Josh Berkus wrote: > >> > I tried coming up with an alternate, based on an idea for a >> > "perl coat of arms": >> > >> > ? ? ? http://obsidianrook.com/sfpm/logo/ >> > >> > Any comments? ?The other club offal-sirs seem to like this direction. >> >> Wow, the ultimate bike-shedding argument begins! > > Actually, I expected worse. ?In particular, I expect a longer and duller > argument about trademarks, but Quinn covered it really well, so I didn't > have to. Personally, I'd rather listen to a bike shed argument then the sound of crickets chirping :) Having a bike shed means that we have active stakeholders. > Anyway, in case it's not clear, I'm working entirely with images I've > drawn and photos I've taken -- the one exception being the map of San > Francisco I used, which is from a USGS topo map that's in the public > domain. The logo with the coat of arms and the Golden Gate at sunset is quite amazing; great work there Joe. > > My intention is to "license" this stuff in the broadest way possible > so that anyone who wants to use it for any purpose can just do it, > without thinking much about legalities. > > (From my point of veiw, even the Creative Commons licenses are kind of > pernicious: they encourage people to slap "attribution required" > and/or "non-commercial use only" restrictions on every stupid little > snapshot...) > >> I think the logo is fine. ?Go for it. > > Yeah, I'm going to have to just pick one and send it in to OSCON. > We, of course, can always change it later. > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From mtheo at amural.com Fri May 22 21:00:43 2009 From: mtheo at amural.com (Mark Theodoropoulos) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 21:00:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <1a208dd0905211421i698f11bahb4eb5ab6daeee6ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <1a208dd0905211421i698f11bahb4eb5ab6daeee6ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1774EB.1020805@amural.com> > Purpure embattled in chief, a shakefork VERT, three Sigils Or. > Please, the Normal Rules of Heraldry prohibit colour-on-colour and > metal-on-metal for a reason -- no contrast in situations where rapid > identification of friend or foe was a matter of life and death. > Change the shakefork to Or (gold) and not only is it Heraldically > 'legal', it also right classy. It wouldn't be part of the blazon proper, but the whole really ought to be encircled with the Garter, bearing, of course, the motto HONI SOIT QVI MAL Y PARSE -- m. theo producer / classics without walls the anti-warhorse zone / www.amural.com kusf 90.3fm / san francisco From fred at redhotpenguin.com Sun May 24 19:37:09 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 19:37:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [pm_groups] White Camel Nominations In-Reply-To: <20090525023341.GD23665@panix.com> References: <20090525023341.GD23665@panix.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David H. Adler Date: Sun, May 24, 2009 at 7:33 PM Subject: [pm_groups] White Camel Nominations To: PM Group list If you would forward this to your groups it would be very greatly appreciated. Thanks! dha -----begin message---- Every year the White Camels are presented for service to the Perl community. If you look at the previous winners, you'll notice that these are mostly unsung heroes, like previous awardee Eric Cholet, the human moderator of so many Perl mailing lists, or Jay Hannah, one of the people running pm.org (if you ever created/maintained a pm group, chances are that Jay walked you through the process). Some of these people may be well known, like Allison Randal or Randal Schwartz, while others may be complete strangers to at least part of the globe, like Josh McAdams or Jay. Some of them may be extreme Perl hackers who created the original JAPH, but they actually received this award as a recognition for their community contributions to Perl rather than for their programming ability. That's not to say a great hacker can't receive the award, but you don't have to be one in order to be eligible. That being said, the nomination process for the 2009 White Camels is now open. If you think there's someone who deserves a White Camel, this is the time for you to send in your nominations. Send them to whitecamel-suggestions at pm.org, if possible with a subject along the lines of "White Camel Nomination :: $name". Make sure you properly identify the nominee and tell us why you think that's a worthy nomination. Don't go thinking "nah, somebody else will do it" because: a) everybody else may be thinking the same, and b) you may state your case differently than the next person. We'll be receiving nominations until June 21, 2009, by midnight, but don't wait up or you'll forget. Do it now! -----end message---- -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ My glass might be half empty, but I am on the way to the bar ? ? ? ?- Simon Wilcox -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups From extasia at extasia.org Tue May 26 11:52:20 2009 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:52:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question Message-ID: <4c714a9c0905261152i7bb91c79wbe08d5f53000128a@mail.gmail.com> greetings, i'm trying to interpolate a value in a compiled regex. it's interpolating the first time, but not the second. that is: #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; use Data::Dumper; use Readonly; Readonly my $FOO => 'foo'; Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; print "\nReadonly:\n"; print '$FOO: ', Dumper $FOO; print '$FOO_REGEX: ', Dumper $FOO_REGEX; my $BAR = 'bar'; my $BAR_REGEX = qr{ $BAR [^#]+ -D $BAR }xms; print "\nNOT Readonly:\n"; print '$BAR: ', Dumper $BAR; print '$BAR_REGEX: ', Dumper $BAR_REGEX; prints: Readonly: $FOO: $VAR1 = 'foo'; $FOO_REGEX: $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: foo [^#]+ -D $FOO )/; NOT Readonly: $BAR: $VAR1 = 'bar'; $BAR_REGEX: $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: bar [^#]+ -D $BAR )/; i added the 'NOT Readonly' section 'cause i thought maybe that had something to do with using Readonly. appears not to. what am i missing. why does it interpolate the first occurrence of the variable, but not the second? i readlly don't wan't to hardcode the variable in the regex. thanks, david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From moseley at hank.org Tue May 26 12:02:17 2009 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:02:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0905261152i7bb91c79wbe08d5f53000128a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0905261152i7bb91c79wbe08d5f53000128a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090526190216.GC6516@hank.org> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:52:20AM -0700, David Alban wrote: > Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; Is the "#" looking like a comment? Do you really mean to use "xms" or is that just what Perl Critic suggests? -- Bill Moseley. moseley at hank.org Sent from my iMutt From shlomif at iglu.org.il Tue May 26 12:24:16 2009 From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 22:24:16 +0300 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question Message-ID: <200905262224.17368.shlomif@iglu.org.il> On Tuesday 26 May 2009 21:52:20 David Alban wrote: > greetings, > > i'm trying to interpolate a value in a compiled regex. it's > interpolating the first time, but not the second. that is: > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > use warnings; > > use Data::Dumper; > use Readonly; > > Readonly my $FOO => 'foo'; > Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; > > print "\nReadonly:\n"; > print '$FOO: ', Dumper $FOO; > print '$FOO_REGEX: ', Dumper $FOO_REGEX; > > my $BAR = 'bar'; > my $BAR_REGEX = qr{ $BAR [^#]+ -D $BAR }xms; > > print "\nNOT Readonly:\n"; > print '$BAR: ', Dumper $BAR; > print '$BAR_REGEX: ', Dumper $BAR_REGEX; > > prints: > > Readonly: > $FOO: $VAR1 = 'foo'; > $FOO_REGEX: $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: foo [^#]+ -D $FOO > )/; > > NOT Readonly: > $BAR: $VAR1 = 'bar'; > $BAR_REGEX: $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: bar [^#]+ -D $BAR > )/; > > > i added the 'NOT Readonly' section 'cause i thought maybe that had > something to do with using Readonly. appears not to. what am i > missing. why does it interpolate the first occurrence of the > variable, but not the second? i readlly don't wan't to hardcode the > variable in the regex. > That appears to be a bug in perl. (tested on perl-base-5.10.0-25mdv2009.1 ). I'm CCing this to the perl5-porters. Nice catch! Regards, Shlomi Fish -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Rethinking CPAN - God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. From extasia at extasia.org Tue May 26 12:36:34 2009 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:36:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question In-Reply-To: <20090526190216.GC6516@hank.org> References: <4c714a9c0905261152i7bb91c79wbe08d5f53000128a@mail.gmail.com> <20090526190216.GC6516@hank.org> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0905261236y1b748c5dqd640fa83e7994a6@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Bill Moseley wrote: > Do you really mean to use "xms" or is that just what Perl Critic > suggests? /xms gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. but... good thought! i found that when i omit /x it interpolates both occurrences: #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; use Data::Dumper; my $FOO = 'foo'; my $FOO_REGEX = qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; print "\nwith /x:\n"; print '$FOO: ', Dumper $FOO; print '$FOO_REGEX: ', Dumper $FOO_REGEX; my $BAR = 'bar'; my $BAR_REGEX = qr{ $BAR [^#]+ -D $BAR }ms; print "\nwithout /x:\n"; print '$BAR: ', Dumper $BAR; print '$BAR_REGEX: ', Dumper $BAR_REGEX; prints: with /x: $FOO: $VAR1 = 'foo'; $FOO_REGEX: $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: foo [^#]+ -D $FOO )/; without /x: $BAR: $VAR1 = 'bar'; $BAR_REGEX: $VAR1 = qr/(?ms-xi: bar [^#]+ -D bar )/; (i don't care about the now-significant whitespace in the second regex in this example.) -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From not.com at gmail.com Tue May 26 12:38:29 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:38:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question In-Reply-To: <20090526190216.GC6516@hank.org> References: <4c714a9c0905261152i7bb91c79wbe08d5f53000128a@mail.gmail.com> <20090526190216.GC6516@hank.org> Message-ID: <75cbfa570905261238l1ac4839egfc6fd292c15f7f48@mail.gmail.com> You can work around it by either not using -x, or using a newline instead of a space after [^#]+ use 5.10.0; my $BAR = 'bar'; my $BAR_REGEX = qr{ $BAR [^#]+ -D $BAR }xms; say $BAR_REGEX; my $BAR2_REGEX = qr{$BAR[^#]+-D$BAR}ms; say $BAR2_REGEX; says: (?msx-i: bar [^#]+ -D bar ) (?ms-xi:bar[^#]+-Dbar) From chas.owens at gmail.com Tue May 26 12:35:48 2009 From: chas.owens at gmail.com (Chas. Owens) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:35:48 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question In-Reply-To: <200905262224.17368.shlomif@iglu.org.il> References: <200905262224.17368.shlomif@iglu.org.il> Message-ID: <58ce48dc0905261235q25063e44yd38f601fbe9ca591@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 15:24, Shlomi Fish wrote: snip >> ? ? Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; snip A smaller test case: perl -le '$x = 1; print qr/ $x [#] $x /x;' -- Chas. Owens wonkden.net The most important skill a programmer can have is the ability to read. From biztos at mac.com Tue May 26 12:04:21 2009 From: biztos at mac.com (frosty) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:04:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question In-Reply-To: <20090526190216.GC6516@hank.org> References: <4c714a9c0905261152i7bb91c79wbe08d5f53000128a@mail.gmail.com> <20090526190216.GC6516@hank.org> Message-ID: <59657176805010001318369773836891759057-Webmail@me.com> Escape the pound sign and you're good. my $BAR_REGEX = qr/ $BAR [^\#]+ -D $BAR /xms; -- f. On Tuesday, May 26, 2009, at 12:02PM, "Bill Moseley" wrote: >On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:52:20AM -0700, David Alban wrote: >> Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; > >Is the "#" looking like a comment? > >Do you really mean to use "xms" or is that just what Perl Critic >suggests? > >-- >Bill Moseley. >moseley at hank.org >Sent from my iMutt >_______________________________________________ >SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From pm at upt.org Tue May 26 12:30:18 2009 From: pm at upt.org (Lane Davis) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:30:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] SanFrancisco-pm Digest, Vol 52, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1243366218.4a1c434a81f9f@webmail.fastq.com> Quoting sanfrancisco-pm-request at pm.org: > i'm trying to interpolate a value in a compiled regex. it's > interpolating the first time, but not the second. that is: > > [some snippage...] > > Readonly my $FOO => 'foo'; > Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; > The use of the /x modifier causes the '#' character to be seen as introducing a comment, even if it's all neatly contained in one qr() entry. Normally we're used to a character class auto-quoting stuff for us, but when combined with /x you'll have to manually quote it: Readonly my $FOO => 'foo'; Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^\#]+ -D $FOO }xms; Cheers, -L -- http://upt.org/lane ------------------------------------------------- FastQ Communications Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993 From rjk-perl-p5p at tamias.net Tue May 26 12:41:14 2009 From: rjk-perl-p5p at tamias.net (Ronald J Kimball) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:41:14 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question In-Reply-To: <200905262224.17368.shlomif@iglu.org.il> References: <200905262224.17368.shlomif@iglu.org.il> Message-ID: <20090526194113.GC39908@penkwe.pair.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:24:16PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: > On Tuesday 26 May 2009 21:52:20 David Alban wrote: > > greetings, > > > > i'm trying to interpolate a value in a compiled regex. it's > > interpolating the first time, but not the second. that is: > > > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > > > use strict; > > use warnings; > > > > use Data::Dumper; > > use Readonly; > > > > Readonly my $FOO => 'foo'; > > Readonly my $FOO_REGEX => qr{ $FOO [^#]+ -D $FOO }xms; > > > > print "\nReadonly:\n"; > > print '$FOO: ', Dumper $FOO; > > print '$FOO_REGEX: ', Dumper $FOO_REGEX; > > > > prints: > > > > Readonly: > > $FOO: $VAR1 = 'foo'; > > $FOO_REGEX: $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: foo [^#]+ -D $FOO > > )/; > > > > > > That appears to be a bug in perl. (tested on perl-base-5.10.0-25mdv2009.1 ). > I'm CCing this to the perl5-porters. Nice catch! > The problem is the combination of /x and [^#]. It appears that the # is being interpreted both as beginning a comment and as being part of the regular expression simultaneously. You should be able to work around this bug by escaping the # with a backslash. Ronald From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue May 26 12:44:48 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:44:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Greetings non-list members Message-ID: Had a couple of posts by non-members to the list, which I just approved. If you aren't a member, please signup so your responses will go through quickly: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From extasia at extasia.org Tue May 26 12:46:55 2009 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:46:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] qr{} question In-Reply-To: <20090526194113.GC39908@penkwe.pair.com> References: <200905262224.17368.shlomif@iglu.org.il> <20090526194113.GC39908@penkwe.pair.com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0905261246h5e0a805dt71b8be6aa0a33c9a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Ronald J Kimball wrote: > You should be able to work around this bug by escaping the # with a > backslash. yeah, i was thrown off by the man page, which indicates i don't need to. :-) from perlre: The "#" character is also treated as a metacharacter introducing a comment, just as in ordinary Perl code. This also means that if you want real whitespace or "#" characters in the pattern (outside a character class, where they are unaffected by "/x"), that you'll either have to escape them or encode them using octal or hex escapes. specifically this part: outside a charactter class, where they are unaffected by "/x" heh. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue May 26 12:55:00 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:55:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Greetings non-list members In-Reply-To: <92f601e70905261251j7319ffd3j6237b88dc87f6816@mail.gmail.com> References: <92f601e70905261251j7319ffd3j6237b88dc87f6816@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Aldis, Sorry to hear that you are no longer in the perl sphere. You can remove yourself by visiting the mailman link below and using the unsubscribe option. - Fred On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Aldis wrote: > Pls remove me from the sf perl distribution list.? Sadly, i have left the > perl sphere. > > thx > > a > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >> >> Had a couple of posts by non-members to the list, which I just >> approved. ?If you aren't a member, please signup so your responses >> will go through quickly: >> >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue May 26 13:00:35 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:00:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] 99 Perl Mongers on the SF.pm Meetup Site, Catalyst Next Tuesday Message-ID: Who will be #100? Dan Dascalescu will give an introduction to the Catalyst framework next Tuesday June 2nd. Our regular meeting time has been moved from tonight to the 2nd, don't forget to RSVP! http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/10389038/ From aldis at ratdog.com Tue May 26 13:02:35 2009 From: aldis at ratdog.com (Aldis) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:02:35 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] Greetings non-list members In-Reply-To: References: <92f601e70905261251j7319ffd3j6237b88dc87f6816@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92f601e70905261302m48d9f0b7ybb4f3230a817c666@mail.gmail.com> a good bunch of people. and, we'll always have Paris On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Hi Aldis, > > Sorry to hear that you are no longer in the perl sphere. You can > remove yourself by visiting the mailman link below and using the > unsubscribe option. > > - Fred > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Aldis wrote: > > Pls remove me from the sf perl distribution list. Sadly, i have left the > > perl sphere. > > > > thx > > > > a > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Fred Moyer > wrote: > >> > >> Had a couple of posts by non-members to the list, which I just > >> approved. If you aren't a member, please signup so your responses > >> will go through quickly: > >> > >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed May 27 16:58:19 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:58:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, May 27 In-Reply-To: <1243453265.29466.0.084415@post.oreilly.com> References: <1243453265.29466.0.084415@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marsee Henon Date: Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:41 PM Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, May 27 To: fred at redhotpenguin.com If you would like to view this information in your browser, click here: http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zee18r6sjf5ktuob596edteuf1f31318ktl66sd0 Forward this announcement - http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1zna6qnl5iifoni3t875u3e3lvf3piof5t70gkrm0 Hi there, We'll be heading off to Maker Faire http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zqcdu8olrvgglr69harpnc7t25uorlak11m5e698 in San Mateo, CA, this weekend. 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Register online: http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zqckphg4k0fievhdfop7214tn577nf90hfasieig (This discount is not combinable with other offers.) ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- News & Blogs --------------------- RubyLearning Interview: Author David Griffiths, "Head First Rails" http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z159g21et6g1v9c44mjaskgpe6r8mdikb6tr2ta0 Why $9.99 Won't Always Be an eBook Pricing Ceiling Have you stumbled across any of those Kindle owners who get angry anytime they see an ebook price over $9.99? How about publishers who insist on maintaining their print list price for the e-version? Btw, for the record, at O'Reilly we typically fall somewhere in between; our "digital list price" is generally less than the print list price and, of course, Amazon is free to discount to an even lower price. As a consumer, when I see a Kindle price over $9.99 I'm highly likely to skip it. http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zlud63klcvs1jmgpakc1j6oieke30e4rvckscfno More Geo-Games: Ship Simulator on Google Earth At Google I/O 2008 the Google Earth API was released. It brought Google Earth's 3D capabilities to the web (with the help of browser extensions). Since that release they've started supporting Macs. One really nice part of the Google Earth API is the ability to create games in the 3D world. http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zq57k3g4dnqom4veemnv5pmjh7itmeevhokpfoe8 Scribd Store a Welcome Addition to Ebook Market (and 650 O'Reilly Titles Included) The document-sharing site Scribd has launched a new "Scribd Store" selling view and download access to documents and books. As part of the launch, there are now more than 650 O'Reilly ebooks now available for preview and sale in the Scribd store, and all include DRM-free PDF downloads with purchase. (Scribd will soon be adding EPUB as a format, and we'll make that available as soon as possible.) http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z45fb0b852hkird283o3pmjvrkh1776qda6dh618 Being a Suggested User Leads to Thousands of Twitter Followers Ever since Twitter started suggesting accounts to new users, it was clear that those on the suggested users list were gaining thousands of followers. Setting aside the fact that number of followers is a poor gauge of influence (see our Twitter report for details), I wanted to know how many followers a suggested account gains by appearing on the list. http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zav66qo2t0ulmaqn0kltf4crgefnj80gm0rqnpg0 Announcing InsideRIA Conference Yep, you heard correctly in association with the 360Conferences guys, InsideRIA is having its first conference August 23-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA at the eBay facilities. This 2-day event will get into the nitty gritty of developing for the Rich Internet Application (RIA) space. Sunday will be hands-on workshops to get you familiar with a few of the RIA platforms. Monday will be a full day of sessions with 3 distinct tracks: Development, Design/User Experience and Business Development. All 3 tracks will be aimed at the RIA platform in general. http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z8300709414oqp0t7ohd4oeqahfmmhbnh2ik4a4g Until next time-- Marsee Henon ---------- O'Reilly - Spreading the knowledge of innovators | oreilly.com ---------- You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee at oreilly.com. O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-7000 Forward this announcement - http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1zna6qnl5iifoni3t875u3e3lvf3piof5t70gkrm0 From fred at redhotpenguin.com Thu May 28 15:53:50 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:53:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [pm_groups] White Camel Nominations In-Reply-To: <20090528175655.GA14417@panix.com> References: <20090525023341.GD23665@panix.com> <20090528175655.GA14417@panix.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David H. Adler Date: Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [pm_groups] White Camel Nominations To: PM Group list On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 10:33:41PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: I made a mistake on the original posting. The address to send to is whitecamel-suggestions at perl.org, not pm.org. Sorry about that. If you could update your followers, that would be great. corrected text below. > -----begin message---- > > Every year the White Camels are presented for service to the Perl > community. > > If you look at the previous winners, you'll notice that these are mostly > unsung heroes, like previous awardee Eric Cholet, the human moderator of > so many Perl mailing lists, or Jay Hannah, one of the people running > pm.org (if you ever created/maintained a pm group, chances are that Jay > walked you through the process). > > Some of these people may be well known, like Allison Randal or Randal > Schwartz, while others may be complete strangers to at least part of the > globe, like Josh McAdams or Jay. Some of them may be extreme Perl > hackers who created the original JAPH, but they actually received this > award as a recognition for their community contributions to Perl rather > than for their programming ability. > > That's not to say a great hacker can't receive the award, but you don't > have to be one in order to be eligible. > > That being said, the nomination process for the 2009 White Camels is now > open. > > If you think there's someone who deserves a White Camel, this is the > time for you to send in your nominations. Send them to > whitecamel-suggestions at perl.org, if possible with a subject along the > lines of "White Camel Nomination :: $name". Make sure you properly > identify the nominee and tell us why you think that's a worthy > nomination. > > Don't go thinking "nah, somebody else will do it" because: a) everybody > else may be thinking the same, and b) you may state your case > differently than the next person. > > We'll be receiving nominations until June 21, 2009, by midnight, but > don't wait up or you'll forget. Do it now! > > -----end message---- -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ It's so hot that my color-change Crazy Straws don't change color anymore. ? ? ? ?- Allison Drennan -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups From mcmahon at ibiblio.org Sat May 30 18:19:12 2009 From: mcmahon at ibiblio.org (Joe McMahon) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 18:19:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] group logo In-Reply-To: <4A1774EB.1020805@amural.com> References: <200905202018.n4KKIsfL049629@kzsu.stanford.edu> <1a208dd0905211421i698f11bahb4eb5ab6daeee6ad@mail.gmail.com> <4A1774EB.1020805@amural.com> Message-ID: <76df99600905301819j60855704v9598c8e90e9b6e31@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Mark Theodoropoulos wrote: > ? ? ? ?HONI SOIT QVI MAL Y PARSE OW.