From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Feb 3 13:55:33 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:55:33 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Slides from January meeting Message-ID: Big thanks to Jonathan Steinert for a great talk. Slides are available now online. http://hachi.kuiki.net/talks/memcache/ From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Fri Feb 13 11:50:26 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:50:26 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Anyone else for lightning talks on Feb 24th? Message-ID: <200902131950.n1DJoQR3079558@kzsu.stanford.edu> Just thought I'd repeat the call... anyone else up for doing a lighting talk this month (Feb 24th)? Joe Brenner wrote: > As SF-PM's sole Co-Chair, I'm in charge (to some extent) of > Speakers... and I'm pleased to announce a call for lightning > talks, to be delivered at the next meeting, February 24th, 2009. > > Anyone have any ideas for things they'd like to give a short talk > about? Shoot me a line -- or talk about them on-list if you'd like. > > What are lightning talks? > > http://perl.plover.com/lightning-talks.html > > Good lightning talk topics are easy to come by: > > "my favorite cpan module" > "check out this cool hack" > "stupidest coding mistake I've ever made" > "a very neat perl 5.10 feature" > "worst perl gotchas" > "ORMs: threat or menance?" > From josh at agliodbs.com Fri Feb 13 17:46:17 2009 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:46:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Anyone else for lightning talks on Feb 24th? In-Reply-To: <200902131950.n1DJoQR3079558@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200902131950.n1DJoQR3079558@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <49962269.2040009@agliodbs.com> Joe Brenner wrote: > Just thought I'd repeat the call... anyone else up for > doing a lighting talk this month (Feb 24th)? I'm not sure I can make the meeting, so LTs are out for me. :-( From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Feb 13 17:53:42 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:53:42 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Anyone else for lightning talks on Feb 24th? In-Reply-To: <200902131950.n1DJoQR3079558@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200902131950.n1DJoQR3079558@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: I can commit to some sort of mod_perl talk. Alternatively, I could give a quick introduction to qpsmtpd (a perl based mta). On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > Just thought I'd repeat the call... anyone else up for > doing a lighting talk this month (Feb 24th)? > > > Joe Brenner wrote: > >> As SF-PM's sole Co-Chair, I'm in charge (to some extent) of >> Speakers... and I'm pleased to announce a call for lightning >> talks, to be delivered at the next meeting, February 24th, 2009. >> >> Anyone have any ideas for things they'd like to give a short talk >> about? Shoot me a line -- or talk about them on-list if you'd like. >> >> What are lightning talks? >> >> http://perl.plover.com/lightning-talks.html >> >> Good lightning talk topics are easy to come by: >> >> "my favorite cpan module" >> "check out this cool hack" >> "stupidest coding mistake I've ever made" >> "a very neat perl 5.10 feature" >> "worst perl gotchas" >> "ORMs: threat or menance?" >> > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From extasia at extasia.org Tue Feb 17 17:51:15 2009 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:51:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? Message-ID: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> it's been a while since we had... um... an email thread. so let me ask you something in which i am genuinely interested. kind of an informal survey. no purpose other than to satisfy idle curiosity. two questions about your job: 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, elaborate a little bit. 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use i do: * 50% command line tools development * 30% release engineering * 20% sysadmin i use: * 75% perl * 25% bash david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From not.com at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 19:02:05 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:02:05 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75cbfa570902171902y184cf55ew17e57d14673d4818@mail.gmail.com> > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. Varies hugely by customer. Currently, roughly, 60% report writing/hacking 30% user interface and process management glue 10% administrative overhead > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use 70% SQL - Teradata 6-ish. Not perfect but has some good aspects. 12% ksh - flavor circa 1988, because the customer says so 12% perl 5.8 - though I use 5.10 on my personal systems, and am now installing perl6 6% C# - was surprised- hey, it ain't so bad! My last customer was nearly 100% machine control in 92% C, 8% bison... did an emergency bugfix for a perl website that moved machines and broke... before that was automated parsing/XML generation/reporting from a manufacturer's hardware test harnesses in equal parts perl, python, XSLT 1.0 (a head trip)... before that was a prototype web app in Python via Django... contracting is fun! when you can get the work. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Feb 17 19:48:04 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:48:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:51 PM, David Alban wrote: > it's been a while since we had... um... an email thread. so let me > ask you something in which i am genuinely interested. kind of an > informal survey. no purpose other than to satisfy idle curiosity. > > two questions about your job: > > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. * 30% writing code * 20% figuring out if I am writing code that will solve the right problem * 10% in meetings * 10% dealing with development tools and infrastructure * 10% planning and prioritizing * 10% gathering business requirements * 10% integration testing and related tasks (apart from writing test code) > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use I use: * 75% Perl * 10% C * 15% SQL From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 20:49:01 2009 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:49:01 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f8a56f70902172049t5737741cr6480797a93e4424e@mail.gmail.com> > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. > It can vary a lot for me, depending on the most pressing business needs, but it's roughly: 50-70% tools and systems development 20-40% operator, using the tools we haven't yet made simple enough for the PMs to use directly 10-15% maintenance of existing systems 3-5% caffeinating, reading tech blogs, woolgathering, etc > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use Perl 90% PHP 5% SQL 3% BASH 2% -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Tue Feb 17 22:58:54 2009 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:58:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22E5ACD9-20A4-47CB-B31D-55FB1161F8AA@highwire.stanford.edu> This is an interesting way to look at a job. In my position, some weeks I'm swamped by support and other weeks I get to do my project work. It's almost like two jobs... Either: 80% working on projects: design, implementation, and testing and 20% support emails for projects that I did in the past. Or: 80% support and 20% project work (or less). (Meetings are almost always part of new projects and most of my email is support work.) Of course, I have projects at all times, it's just that sometimes I have to fix something that someone else ran into or broke and that takes all day/week/month. My office works on the "silo model" where only one person knows about any system at any given time. It doesn't make me happy, but cowboy coding is the unfortunate rule here. As for languages, it depends on the project of the week, but overall I'd say: 70% Perl 20% SQL (Sybase) 10% XSLT/XPath <1% Java, csh The more I use XSLT the more I hate it, but I can see that it's good for some things. XPath, OTOH, is dreamy. -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu From mason at singlefeed.com Tue Feb 17 23:09:00 2009 From: mason at singlefeed.com (Mason Jones) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:09:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3b611a7b0902172309wabc0a93mc1596a63a2c59e60@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:51 PM, David Alban wrote: > > two questions about your job: > > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. It changed a bit recently, but these days: 40% Managing 20% Design, Project/Product Mgmt, and Planning 40% Coding > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use 35% Perl 25% Ruby 25% Javascript 15% SQL, Shell, occasional bits of C or and whatnot Interesting, since at my previous job it was about 85% Java and 15% SQL (and some Ruby in my spare time). From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Feb 18 07:08:49 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:08:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Meeting reminder - February 24th, Lightning Talks Message-ID: Greetings, This is a reminder that our February meeting is next Tuesday the 24th, at Six Apart Headquarters at 7 pm. Lightning talks is the order of business, we have a few lined up but need more speakers. This is a great opportunity to give a short talk about a topic you are interested in. Or take the plunge if you have never spoken in front of others before. Please email Joe Brenner if you would like to give a talk - . Or just show up with your material on a usb drive or other medium. Any suggestions for food? Please see the sf.pm blog or meetup page for details. Please RSVP on meetup.com so we know how many people to feed. http://sf.pm.org/weblog/ http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9442335/ From matt at lanier.org Wed Feb 18 10:46:48 2009 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:46:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: i do: 50% management 50% wierd projects that noone else will touch i use: 25% psychology 25% perl 25% *sh 25% sql On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, David Alban wrote: > it's been a while since we had... um... an email thread. so let me > ask you something in which i am genuinely interested. kind of an > informal survey. no purpose other than to satisfy idle curiosity. > > two questions about your job: > > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use > > i do: > > * 50% command line tools development > * 30% release engineering > * 20% sysadmin > > i use: > > * 75% perl > * 25% bash > > david > -- Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier From dan at peeron.com Wed Feb 18 11:25:00 2009 From: dan at peeron.com (Dan Boger) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:25:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:51 PM, David Alban wrote: > two questions about your job: > > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use > Time: 30% design, architecture, talking to people about what they're doing and how they're going about it 50% code new features, skunkwork ideas 20% bugfixes on our infrastructure Languages: 85% perl 10% java 5% bash (mostly when called from java) -- Dan Boger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quinn at fairpath.com Wed Feb 18 11:26:16 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:26:16 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I do whatever my contract says to do. :) --mostly web programming and web services. Just about 75% web programming and 25% web services. One interesting trend I've noticed with Perl web contracts these days is that they're almost always for inTRAnet web apps, seldom for Internet-facing apps. Anyway... Sometimes I do 100% Perl back-end programming (for web services). Sometimes I do a mix of Perl and SQL (or ORM) while my client's employee does the UI. Sometimes (my favorite times) I do the whole web app on my own. Then it usually boils down to something like: 30% UI design and XHTML/CSS 5% - 10% Database setup and DDL 5% sysadmin 20% - 30% jQuery 50% Back-end Perl plus SQL or ORM (usually ORM these days) These numbers vary wildly according to requirements. Some sites need a lot of JavaScript; some need none. A few clients demand highly polished UIs; more prefer quick and dirty UIs and fast development times. Whatever the trade-off, I make sure the customer understands the options and gives informed consent. Then I deliver what they want. Thanks for the thought-provoking question. It was fun to answer. __ Quinn Weaver Full-stack web consultant http://fairpath.com/ 510-520-5217 (mobile) From quinn at fairpath.com Wed Feb 18 11:37:23 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:37:23 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > 30% UI design and XHTML/CSS > 5% - 10% Database setup and DDL > 5% sysadmin > 20% - 30% jQuery > 50% Back-end Perl plus SQL or ORM (usually ORM these days) Bonus to anyone who notices that there's no way to add up these numbers and get 100% or less. You know how contracts tend to expand in scope. :) But seriously... IRL, I'm meticulous about noting when my clients are requesting scope additions, and making sure they're aware of them. It's amazing how often they're unaware that scope creep is happening... well, I guess that's why they call it creep. As with UI quality, you have to respect your customer's decision, but make sure they're making it with fully informed consent. I hold that this is as important in the FTE world as the contract world. Good communication is the most important part of a working relationship. Doesn't matter how good your tech skills are, if you lack communication, you're not doing your job. __ Quinn Weaver Full-stack web consultant http://fairpath.com/ 510-520-5217 (mobile) From shlomif at iglu.org.il Wed Feb 18 11:37:46 2009 From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:37:46 +0200 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200902182137.47230.shlomif@iglu.org.il> Hi David! On Wednesday 18 February 2009 03:51:15 David Alban wrote: > it's been a while since we had... um... an email thread. so let me > ask you something in which i am genuinely interested. kind of an > informal survey. no purpose other than to satisfy idle curiosity. > > two questions about your job: > Well, first of all, two warnings: 1. Even though I'm subscribed to SF.pm, I do not live in San-Fransisco, but rather in Israel. 2. I'm not employed at the moment, but rather am an unemployed open-source developer/advocate/activist/etc. (I'm still looking for a job, if you would be interested in hiring me). > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. Well, I'll give percentage ranges to make it more accurate: 1. I spend about 20%-30% of my computer time (possibly less) keeping up with incoming messages: on Email (mostly mailing lists - both local and international), RSS, web-forums or blogs, and lately also Plurk.com (a micro- blogging service). I like to keep my inbox in control, so I sometimes take some time to move all messages to the appropriate folder. I have a huge "Ham" folder where I keep all the messages I received in person, and that don't warranty putting in my "saved" hierarchy of folders. I don't want to delete such emails because I may need to refer to them later. 2. I spend about 10-20% of my time chatting on IRC and on IM. I'm trying to reduce my IRC time to a minimum because it's very addictive and time- consuming. 3. I spend about 20% of my time working on text: blog entries, technical documentation, essays, HTML pages, etc. Some of it involve publicising them on various news sites or web-forums. 4. I spend about 10% (possibly less) of my time writing actual code. 5. I spend about 10% of my time in maintaining my desktop system. I use Mandriva Linux Cooker, which is kinda like Mandriva's Debian Testing, except without Unstable and Experimental to weed out the most serious bugs. My system is pretty stable, and usually I can use it with comfort, but sometimes there are minor problems, or I need to set up things more to the way I like it. That's the point of using Cooker, though. > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use > * 75% Perl * 20% Bash. * 5% C/C++ With some bits of other language, but usually not for anything too serious. Regards, Shlomi Fish > i do: > > * 50% command line tools development > * 30% release engineering > * 20% sysadmin > > i use: > > * 75% perl > * 25% bash > > david -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Understand what Open Source is - http://xrl.us/bjn82 I'm not interested in what you're doing; what are you trying to achieve? mauke: I'm trying to achieve world peace and this regex is the last thing standing in my way! ;) From kvale at phy.ucsf.edu Wed Feb 18 12:13:08 2009 From: kvale at phy.ucsf.edu (Mark Kvale) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:13:08 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <499C6BD4.4080400@phy.ucsf.edu> I'm a statistical geneticist at UCSF. My work breakdown in time spent is 30% - developing mathematical models and algorithms for exploratory analysis of genetic data. All of this ends up in programs, but it involves looking up journal articles, thinking, discussions and analytic analysis with pen and paper 40% - implementing the above algorithms, debugging and interpreting results. 15% - data munging and web app development. These are small applications that demo the models or algorithms in a scientific paper. Not pretty, but they get the job done. 15% - Meetings, email, talks, helping others with computer problems, etc. Languages: 70% perl - I hold a contrarian view, in that I think perl is a great language for exploratory data analysis. It's awesome for data munging and and is often fast enough for even involved mathematical programming. 20% C++ - for memory hungry or especially lengthy algorithms. 10% R - a statistical programming language SQL - mostly to store or retrieve data for further analysis SGE + MPI - SGE is the Sun Grid Engine. It has a little language for submitting and controlling distributed computations in our linux cluster MPI - a parallel programming library. As my datasets grow from a gigabyte to a terabyte in size, I find myself programming more in C++, mostly because perl is too memory-hungry to keep much data in RAM. The PDL module can help me avoid C++ at times. I've read that Perl6 may have compact multidimensional data types. This would be a real boon for my type of programming. Mark From pm.org at daveola.com Wed Feb 18 12:21:55 2009 From: pm.org at daveola.com (David Ljung Madison) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:21:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write,.. Depends on the phase of my job/contract. Probably something like: Early Phase ----------- 40% Testbench creation 60% Tool development 25% Verilog 20% C 55% Perl Later Phase ----------- 70% Tool development 30% Chip debug 5% Verilog 5% C 15% Assembly 75% Perl Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Ljung Madison http://GetDave.com/ 415.341.5555 --- I am totally into Perl now. I love it. It rules with an iron fist. -- From barko192 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 12:56:01 2009 From: barko192 at gmail.com (Matt Barkovich) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:56:01 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. Right now I'm developing a web app for a professor of mine and since he is short on funds I've got to manage everything on the technical side. So about 25% determining requirements 5% re-determining requirements since after trying it out the users decide it wasn't what they wanted after all. 30% development of the front end (takes more time than it should since I'm bad at making things pretty) 20% back end development 10% sysadmin 10% analyzing usage data > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use 40% php 20% *sh 15% perl 15% C 10% SQL The project is fun and it is forcing me to expand my skill set in ways I probably wouldn't have otherwise. Matt From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Wed Feb 18 13:50:14 2009 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:50:14 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32CBF300-36F7-4813-B66C-F06C26ED68A1@highwire.stanford.edu> On Feb 18, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Matt Barkovich wrote: > 25% determining requirements > 5% re-determining requirements since after trying it out the users > decide it wasn't what they wanted after all. You only need 5% of time to re-do the requirements after contact with the users? Wow, that's a great percentage! Good job! -- Mike, who is getting more cynical by the week ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu From barko192 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 16:19:52 2009 From: barko192 at gmail.com (Matt Barkovich) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:19:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <32CBF300-36F7-4813-B66C-F06C26ED68A1@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> <32CBF300-36F7-4813-B66C-F06C26ED68A1@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: Well, my users so far are mostly grad students; they are a remarkably submissive lot. That 5% comes from basically one guy. Matt, who is dreading the big rollout next quarter... On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > On Feb 18, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Matt Barkovich wrote: >> >> 25% determining requirements >> 5% re-determining requirements since after trying it out the users decide >> it wasn't what they wanted after all. > > You only need 5% of time to re-do the requirements after contact with the > users? Wow, that's a great percentage! Good job! > > -- Mike, who is getting more cynical by the week > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | > friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From Adam.Morgan at safeway.com Wed Feb 18 20:00:38 2009 From: Adam.Morgan at safeway.com (Adam Morgan) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:00:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5113C869AE8FD844B3589414188D35A90372D9D5@PHITPR05EXC01.safeway01.ad.safeway.com> 1. 40% Coding automated reporting systems in the BI space and manipulating large data sets 20% Troubleshooting and support 15% Customer relations, work generation 10% Business administration 10% Infrastructure design 5% Office politics 2. 50% Unix shell scripting - ksh 30% SQL 10% Perl 7% C# 3% ASP/ASP.NET/HTML -----Original Message----- From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+adam.morgan=safeway.com at pm.org [mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+adam.morgan=safeway.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of David Alban Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 5:51 PM To: sfperl Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? it's been a while since we had... um... an email thread. so let me ask you something in which i am genuinely interested. kind of an informal survey. no purpose other than to satisfy idle curiosity. two questions about your job: 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, elaborate a little bit. 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use i do: * 50% command line tools development * 30% release engineering * 20% sysadmin i use: * 75% perl * 25% bash david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm "Email Firewall" made the following annotations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. ============================================================================== From shalizi at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 20:50:31 2009 From: shalizi at gmail.com (Ahmad Shalizi) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:50:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <5113C869AE8FD844B3589414188D35A90372D9D5@PHITPR05EXC01.safeway01.ad.safeway.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> <5113C869AE8FD844B3589414188D35A90372D9D5@PHITPR05EXC01.safeway01.ad.safeway.com> Message-ID: <7eafa8090902182050h146f31a0rf839115260c88b17@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I used to work as a Netbackup Engineer 75% backups, troubleshooting 15% unix, windows and network administration 3% ksh 2% perl 5% meetings but very motivated to learn, Ahmad: On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Adam Morgan wrote: > 1. 40% Coding automated reporting systems in the BI space and > manipulating large data sets > 20% Troubleshooting and support > 15% Customer relations, work generation > 10% Business administration > 10% Infrastructure design > 5% Office politics > > 2. 50% Unix shell scripting - ksh > 30% SQL > 10% Perl > 7% C# > 3% ASP/ASP.NET/HTML > > -----Original Message----- > From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+adam.morgan=safeway.com at pm.org > [mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+adam.morgan > =safeway.com at pm.org] On > Behalf Of David Alban > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 5:51 PM > To: sfperl > Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? > > it's been a while since we had... um... an email thread. so let me > ask you something in which i am genuinely interested. kind of an > informal survey. no purpose other than to satisfy idle curiosity. > > two questions about your job: > > 1, break down, by percentage of time, what you do. if you think the > terminology you use isn't generally understood by this audience, > elaborate a little bit. > 2, break down, by percentage of code you write, the languages you use > > i do: > > * 50% command line tools development > * 30% release engineering > * 20% sysadmin > > i use: > > * 75% perl > * 25% bash > > david > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > "Email Firewall" made the following annotations. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Warning: > All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate e-mail > system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the > recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is intended > only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this > message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have > received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, > distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. > > > ============================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ddascalescu at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 21:03:36 2009 From: ddascalescu at gmail.com (Dan Dascalescu) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:03:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <7eafa8090902182050h146f31a0rf839115260c88b17@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> <5113C869AE8FD844B3589414188D35A90372D9D5@PHITPR05EXC01.safeway01.ad.safeway.com> <7eafa8090902182050h146f31a0rf839115260c88b17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3561cc6d0902182103j7187d3f1hef216c74d30c6c65@mail.gmail.com> I unfortunately am stuck with PHP at $work. Does anyone here use Catalyst? Dan From quinn at fairpath.com Thu Feb 19 11:35:40 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:35:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <3561cc6d0902182103j7187d3f1hef216c74d30c6c65@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> <5113C869AE8FD844B3589414188D35A90372D9D5@PHITPR05EXC01.safeway01.ad.safeway.com> <7eafa8090902182050h146f31a0rf839115260c88b17@mail.gmail.com> <3561cc6d0902182103j7187d3f1hef216c74d30c6c65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <650BC6A9-380D-41B9-A51B-ED33B0C775E5@fairpath.com> I use Catalyst. In the past two years I've done four projects in it for two clients, with various combos of ORMs, form-validations modules, etc. (often dictated by the client). My conclusion: Catalyst with Rose::DB::Object and HTML::FormFu is very nice. -- Quinn Weaver Full-stack web developer http://fairpath.com/ 510-520-5217 (mobile) On Feb 18, 2009, at 9:03 PM, Dan Dascalescu wrote: > I unfortunately am stuck with PHP at $work. > > Does anyone here use Catalyst? > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From ddascalescu at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 14:14:49 2009 From: ddascalescu at gmail.com (Dan Dascalescu) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:14:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <650BC6A9-380D-41B9-A51B-ED33B0C775E5@fairpath.com> References: <4c714a9c0902171751x77d05f9dsb981220ab9975c1e@mail.gmail.com> <5113C869AE8FD844B3589414188D35A90372D9D5@PHITPR05EXC01.safeway01.ad.safeway.com> <7eafa8090902182050h146f31a0rf839115260c88b17@mail.gmail.com> <3561cc6d0902182103j7187d3f1hef216c74d30c6c65@mail.gmail.com> <650BC6A9-380D-41B9-A51B-ED33B0C775E5@fairpath.com> Message-ID: <3561cc6d0902191414s5bbab4fex5732662ce6237363@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Quinn Weaver wrote: > I use Catalyst. In the past two years I've done four projects in it for two > clients, with various combos of ORMs, form-validations modules, etc. (often > dictated by the client). My conclusion: Catalyst with Rose::DB::Object and > HTML::FormFu is very nice. Nice. Are those projects public? I'm doing some Catalyst advocacy these days (because Rails has too much of it :) and it would be great if you can list them in one or more of these directories of Catalyst sites: 1. http://www.appliedstacks.com/PoweredBy/Catalyst - easiest to add, shows up instantly 2. http://www.catalystsites.org/ - Catalyst specific 3. http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/wiki/sitesrunningcatalyst - our wiki Best regards, Dan From rdm at cfcl.com Mon Feb 23 13:39:22 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:39:22 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] HP mininote 2133 "netbook" Message-ID: Vicki would like to sell her HP mininote (etc); I can bring it along to tomorrow's meeting if anyone is interested... -r HP mininote 2133 "netbook" (sub laptop) computer. Model KX872AA SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop upgraded to include Apache 2 http://h40059.www4.hp.com/hp2133/ review: http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/09/_hp_mininote_2133_review.html Processor Via C7-M (1.2G) Memory 1024MB DDR RAM Network Support 56K Modem, 802.11b/g,Bluetooth\ Disk 120GB HDD\ Battery 3-Cell LiIon Battery (1.5 hr) 6-Cell LiIon Battery (4 hr)) integrated Wi-Fi 1280 x 768 display 2 USB SD card slot spare AC power adaptor/charger external USB DVD drive (never used) Current retail value mini note $349 (amazon.com) http://www.amazon.com/2133-KX869AT-8-9-inch-Mini-Note-Processor-Drive/dp/B00170IAUE extended capacity battery $75 http://www.amazon.com/Extended-Capacity-2133-KX870AT-Mini-Note-482262-001/dp/B001I4L4WK/ref=pd_sim_pc_58 External USB Powered DVD-ROM Drive HP 2133 Mini PC price varies; I found mine on eBay for $65 spare AC adaptor -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Feb 23 16:39:08 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:39:08 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning talks tomorrow! Message-ID: Tomorrow evening at 7 pm we will have food followed by lightning talks: http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9442335/ http://sf.pm.org/weblog/ We have about six talks lined up, but could use more. If you have never given a lightning talk before, this is a good chance to make a first impression before you go in front of the tough crowds at OSCON, YAPC, or ApacheCON. We had pizza last time, so this time we will have something different, selected by my scientifically generated food selection algorithm. The algorithm consists of me visiting Yelp and picking the nearest food that looks good and that we haven't had, taking suggestions by the group in account as a localization factor. See you tomorrow night! From barko192 at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 17:13:57 2009 From: barko192 at gmail.com (Matt Barkovich) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:13:57 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery Message-ID: Hi all, I was curious about how those of you who work with web aps deal with minimizing downtime when a particular service dies for whatever reason. I'm not a sysadmin by training, rather it is a responsibility that no one else seemed willing to take. Right now I have a perl script that runs as a cron job every five minutes, checking the status of the various services on the server and restarting and reporting if anything is amiss. I've been told that my production schedule needs to be pushed forward and five minutes of downtime will soon be unacceptable. Since I've got a .NET app running in mono (which has not been kind to me) I need to catch problems as quickly as possible and restart the service. Most frequently the mono app will just hang indefinitely, not crash outright. With the new schedule I don't have time to fix (read replace) the problematic app before I go live. So my question, what do you folks recommend as far as checking the status of services more frequently than every 5 minutes? Would you recommend sticking with perl, or this there some FOSS that would better serve my purposes? In my research, I've found programs like Nagios, but don't know much about them. I'd prefer not to add too much the way of overhead, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. Sorry if this is a little off topic. Thanks, Matt From mason at singlefeed.com Tue Feb 24 17:19:51 2009 From: mason at singlefeed.com (Mason Jones) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:19:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3b611a7b0902241719o63d50b86x3f8b464027385897@mail.gmail.com> I'd say yes, you're going to want to be looking at something like Nagios or Big Brother, which can check the status of known services/ports/web apps/etc as frequently as you need, and then invoke scripts to restart things. You can actually get quite a bit done with home-grown perl scripts, really, but there are plugins and other things available for tools like Nagios which you'll probably find save you time (once you learn the system, of course). On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Matt Barkovich wrote: > Hi all, > > I was curious about how those of you who work with web aps deal with > minimizing downtime when a particular service dies for whatever > reason. I'm not a sysadmin by training, rather it is a responsibility > that no one else seemed willing to take. Right now I have a perl > script that runs as a cron job every five minutes, checking the status > of the various services on the server and restarting and reporting if > anything is amiss. > > I've been told that my production schedule needs to be pushed forward > and five minutes of downtime will soon be unacceptable. Since I've > got a .NET app running in mono (which has not been kind to me) I need > to catch problems as quickly as possible and restart the service. > Most frequently the mono app will just hang indefinitely, not crash > outright. With the new schedule I don't have time to fix (read > replace) the problematic app before I go live. > > So my question, what do you folks recommend as far as checking the > status of services more frequently than every 5 minutes? Would you > recommend sticking with perl, or this there some FOSS that would > better serve my purposes? In my research, I've found programs like > Nagios, but don't know much about them. I'd prefer not to add too much > the way of overhead, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. > > Sorry if this is a little off topic. > > Thanks, > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woof at danlo.com Tue Feb 24 18:30:13 2009 From: woof at danlo.com (Daniel Lo) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:30:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <136405033.20090224183013@danlo.com> Hello Matt, The best test for this is one that is done externally. For example another website checks your website. :) Some sites will even preform metrics such as how long it takes to load and graph that over a period of time. Some sites will also do it from different parts of the world/country. -daniel Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 5:13:57 PM, you wrote: > Hi all, > I was curious about how those of you who work with web aps deal with > minimizing downtime when a particular service dies for whatever > reason. I'm not a sysadmin by training, rather it is a responsibility > that no one else seemed willing to take. Right now I have a perl > script that runs as a cron job every five minutes, checking the status > of the various services on the server and restarting and reporting if > anything is amiss. > I've been told that my production schedule needs to be pushed forward > and five minutes of downtime will soon be unacceptable. Since I've > got a .NET app running in mono (which has not been kind to me) I need > to catch problems as quickly as possible and restart the service. > Most frequently the mono app will just hang indefinitely, not crash > outright. With the new schedule I don't have time to fix (read > replace) the problematic app before I go live. > So my question, what do you folks recommend as far as checking the > status of services more frequently than every 5 minutes? Would you > recommend sticking with perl, or this there some FOSS that would > better serve my purposes? In my research, I've found programs like > Nagios, but don't know much about them. I'd prefer not to add too much > the way of overhead, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. > Sorry if this is a little off topic. > Thanks, > Matt > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm -- Best regards, Daniel mailto:woof at danlo.com From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Tue Feb 24 20:53:50 2009 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:53:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: <3b611a7b0902241719o63d50b86x3f8b464027385897@mail.gmail.com> References: <3b611a7b0902241719o63d50b86x3f8b464027385897@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'd also like to recommend Nagios. My group uses it to monitor everything and, except for when you're setting up a new kind of monitor, it "just works". We even use it to call out to perl scripts to monitor certain special things. The trick with any monitoring software is to monitor the right things as often as you need to without hurting those things. So, sure!, you can monitor the website every 30 seconds if you want, but you really need that hit to be as small of an impact as possible or you'll cause your own performance problems. For example: - if a static page GET will work, don't GET a CGI page - if a CGI page will work, then don't GET a DB-driven page - if you can monitor the causes of failures that's better than the failures themselves One great thing about Nagios for us is that it's easy to set up new monitors. So the first time we had a machine run out of disk space (oops!) we set up disk space monitors on all the servers. They email someone when the server hits 80% full and page someone at 90%. We have CPU monitors that make sure that any process that is taking too much time gets killed and restarted. We watch home pages and access- controlled pages and java servlet-served pages. (Rather than tie up a real servlet which would take more resources we made a "Hello, World" servlet. If the servlet container is running, it responds. If it isn't, it won't. But it's the lightest thing we could hit and still know anything about the java servlet status. Watch for caching, though!) Anyway, Nagios is pretty easy to administer and really flexible. Once you get used to it, you'll think of all sorts of things you want to monitor... -- Mike PS - One last thing. We discovered that having a monitor restart processes was fine, as far as it goes, but not enough. Now we monitor the number of restarts that happen. If the automated monitor restarts the service three times in a row, then another monitor pages someone -- since there's obviously something that's stopping the service from coming back up. ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Feb 24, 2009, at 5:19 PM, Mason Jones wrote: > I'd say yes, you're going to want to be looking at something like > Nagios or Big Brother, which can check the status of known services/ > ports/web apps/etc as frequently as you need, and then invoke > scripts to restart things. You can actually get quite a bit done > with home-grown perl scripts, really, but there are plugins and > other things available for tools like Nagios which you'll probably > find save you time (once you learn the system, of course). > > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Matt Barkovich > wrote: > Hi all, > > I was curious about how those of you who work with web aps deal with > minimizing downtime when a particular service dies for whatever > reason. I'm not a sysadmin by training, rather it is a responsibility > that no one else seemed willing to take. Right now I have a perl > script that runs as a cron job every five minutes, checking the status > of the various services on the server and restarting and reporting if > anything is amiss. > > I've been told that my production schedule needs to be pushed forward > and five minutes of downtime will soon be unacceptable. Since I've > got a .NET app running in mono (which has not been kind to me) I need > to catch problems as quickly as possible and restart the service. > Most frequently the mono app will just hang indefinitely, not crash > outright. With the new schedule I don't have time to fix (read > replace) the problematic app before I go live. > > So my question, what do you folks recommend as far as checking the > status of services more frequently than every 5 minutes? Would you > recommend sticking with perl, or this there some FOSS that would > better serve my purposes? In my research, I've found programs like > Nagios, but don't know much about them. I'd prefer not to add too much > the way of overhead, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. > > Sorry if this is a little off topic. > > Thanks, > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From biztos at mac.com Wed Feb 25 01:36:43 2009 From: biztos at mac.com (frosty) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:36:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: <136405033.20090224183013@danlo.com> References: <136405033.20090224183013@danlo.com> Message-ID: <58023907051168711359251411103841651881-Webmail@me.com> Check out Pingdom. I have not used them but I've looked into their service and it looks to me like they have a good reputation and reasonable prices. http://pingdom.com/ I would recommend also having redundant monitoring via your Perl script, and maybe even have some external service like Pingdom checking that. The point being that if you have to take on the thankless job of sysadmin, you probably also want to hire a robot to wake you up in the middle of the night if things go bad. -- f. On Tuesday, February 24, 2009, at 06:30PM, "Daniel Lo" wrote: >Hello Matt, > >The best test for this is one that is done externally. For example another website >checks your website. :) > >Some sites will even preform metrics such as how long it takes to load and graph >that over a period of time. Some sites will also do it from different parts of >the world/country. > >-daniel > > > >Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 5:13:57 PM, you wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> I was curious about how those of you who work with web aps deal with >> minimizing downtime when a particular service dies for whatever >> reason. I'm not a sysadmin by training, rather it is a responsibility >> that no one else seemed willing to take. Right now I have a perl >> script that runs as a cron job every five minutes, checking the status >> of the various services on the server and restarting and reporting if >> anything is amiss. > >> I've been told that my production schedule needs to be pushed forward >> and five minutes of downtime will soon be unacceptable. Since I've >> got a .NET app running in mono (which has not been kind to me) I need >> to catch problems as quickly as possible and restart the service. >> Most frequently the mono app will just hang indefinitely, not crash >> outright. With the new schedule I don't have time to fix (read >> replace) the problematic app before I go live. > >> So my question, what do you folks recommend as far as checking the >> status of services more frequently than every 5 minutes? Would you >> recommend sticking with perl, or this there some FOSS that would >> better serve my purposes? In my research, I've found programs like >> Nagios, but don't know much about them. I'd prefer not to add too much >> the way of overhead, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. > >> Sorry if this is a little off topic. > >> Thanks, > >> Matt >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > >-- >Best regards, > Daniel mailto:woof at danlo.com > >_______________________________________________ >SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From biztos at mac.com Wed Feb 25 01:38:32 2009 From: biztos at mac.com (frosty) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:38:32 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning talks tomorrow! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51591206256250692395489809562655063522-Webmail@me.com> how did it go? i'm over in budapest for the next week and a half... mixed bag so far, shitty weather, lots of work, various network problems, bars seem a LOT smokier now that i don't smoke, and my iphone got stolen. but the girls are still beyooooootiful! -- f. On Monday, February 23, 2009, at 04:39PM, "Fred Moyer" wrote: >Tomorrow evening at 7 pm we will have food followed by lightning talks: > >http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9442335/ > >http://sf.pm.org/weblog/ > >We have about six talks lined up, but could use more. If you have >never given a lightning talk before, this is a good chance to make a >first impression before you go in front of the tough crowds at OSCON, >YAPC, or ApacheCON. > >We had pizza last time, so this time we will have something different, >selected by my scientifically generated food selection algorithm. The >algorithm consists of me visiting Yelp and picking the nearest food >that looks good and that we haven't had, taking suggestions by the >group in account as a localization factor. > >See you tomorrow night! >_______________________________________________ >SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From biztos at mac.com Wed Feb 25 01:47:02 2009 From: biztos at mac.com (frosty) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:47:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] what do you do? In-Reply-To: <311BC8F8-8A89-4156-9661-B0686D4A0941@mac.com> References: <8EC81270-0117-1000-F5AD-DD0DCB7AE0A3-Webmail-10010@mac.com> <9668173f0801171103t5b71c27cv957280deac30b876@mail.gmail.com> <1F7CF671-0117-1000-F718-813F4E073485-Webmail-10009@mac.com> <62BC7E88-6CFD-404F-B47E-9D5E8A3E810F@bricefrillici.com> <9668173f0801181614o6438b1fenc9cd8c88bf375b35@mail.gmail.com> <311BC8F8-8A89-4156-9661-B0686D4A0941@mac.com> Message-ID: <105182633627396593482936680786736183942-Webmail@me.com> I also use Catalyst. So far I've used it for one fairly large work project, and one fairly large (but still unfinished) private project. I use it with DBIx::Class and Template::Toolkit, with YUI and jQuery on the client. For me it plays the role of web application in systems that have other, purely server-side components as well, and it's been pretty easy to integrate. I like it a lot and plan to use it more in the future. Once you get the hang of it you can make a *very* readable, *very* well-organized application, which can be expanded with new controllers *very* easily. Definitely a measure twice, cut once type of learning curve. I have found the default/auto-configuration/demo apps somewhat lacking, but then I'm a complete fascist about code quality, and they're free so I'm not complaining. I think once you get your "Dan's Canonical Perfect Catalyst System Version One" built you will find it very, very easy to fork that and make more web apps from it. -- f. On Thursday, February 19, 2009, at 11:35AM, "Quinn Weaver" wrote: >I use Catalyst. In the past two years I've done four projects in it >for two clients, with various combos of ORMs, form-validations >modules, etc. (often dictated by the client). My conclusion: Catalyst >with Rose::DB::Object and HTML::FormFu is very nice. > >-- >Quinn Weaver >Full-stack web developer >http://fairpath.com/ >510-520-5217 (mobile) > > >On Feb 18, 2009, at 9:03 PM, Dan Dascalescu >wrote: > >> I unfortunately am stuck with PHP at $work. >> >> Does anyone here use Catalyst? >> >> Dan >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >_______________________________________________ >SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From biztos at mac.com Wed Feb 25 01:47:49 2009 From: biztos at mac.com (frosty) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:47:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning talks tomorrow! In-Reply-To: <51591206256250692395489809562655063522-Webmail@me.com> References: <51591206256250692395489809562655063522-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <43875562818030942302011713920969996484-Webmail@me.com> sorry everyone, that was meant for Fred only. but i stand by the opinions. :-) -- f. On Wednesday, February 25, 2009, at 01:38AM, "frosty" wrote: >how did it go? > >i'm over in budapest for the next week and a half... mixed bag so far, shitty weather, lots of work, various network problems, bars seem a LOT smokier now that i don't smoke, and my iphone got stolen. > >but the girls are still beyooooootiful! > >-- f. > >On Monday, February 23, 2009, at 04:39PM, "Fred Moyer" wrote: >>Tomorrow evening at 7 pm we will have food followed by lightning talks: >> >>http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9442335/ >> >>http://sf.pm.org/weblog/ >> >>We have about six talks lined up, but could use more. If you have >>never given a lightning talk before, this is a good chance to make a >>first impression before you go in front of the tough crowds at OSCON, >>YAPC, or ApacheCON. >> >>We had pizza last time, so this time we will have something different, >>selected by my scientifically generated food selection algorithm. The >>algorithm consists of me visiting Yelp and picking the nearest food >>that looks good and that we haven't had, taking suggestions by the >>group in account as a localization factor. >> >>See you tomorrow night! >>_______________________________________________ >>SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >>SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >> >> >_______________________________________________ >SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From david_v_wright at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 10:04:29 2009 From: david_v_wright at yahoo.com (david wright- [白熊]) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:04:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery Message-ID: <701980.42852.qm@web31815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > I was curious about how those of you who work with web aps deal with minimizing downtime ... checking the status of the various services on the server and well, if that is your goal, you will need more than one server ;) You need a? load balancer (even a simple one) that handles incoming requests and sends them to your web servers based on availability. i.e. if a server is down, it won't get traffic :) Then as folks mentioned you can have Nagios running which will tell you the health of the servers (and can restart if necessary) Here is a step-by-step guide: http://www.howtoforge.com/high_availability_loadbalanced_apache_cluster --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Matt Barkovich wrote: From: Matt Barkovich Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery To: "San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group" Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 8:13 PM Hi all, I was curious about how those of you who work with web aps deal with minimizing downtime when a particular service dies for whatever reason.? I'm not a sysadmin by training, rather it is a responsibility that no one else seemed willing to take.? Right now I have a perl script that runs as a cron job every five minutes, checking the status of the various services on the server and restarting and reporting if anything is amiss. I've been told that my production schedule needs to be pushed forward and five minutes of downtime will soon be unacceptable.? Since I've got a .NET app running in mono (which has not been kind to me) I need to catch problems as quickly as possible and restart the service. Most frequently the mono app will just hang indefinitely, not crash outright.? With the new schedule I don't have time to fix (read replace) the problematic app before I go live. So my question, what do you folks recommend as far as checking the status of services more frequently than every 5 minutes?? Would you recommend sticking with perl, or this there some FOSS that would better serve my purposes?? In my research, I've found programs like Nagios, but don't know much about them. I'd prefer not to add too much the way of overhead, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. Sorry if this is a little off topic. Thanks, Matt _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From not.com at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 12:22:13 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:22:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning talks tomorrow! In-Reply-To: <43875562818030942302011713920969996484-Webmail@me.com> References: <51591206256250692395489809562655063522-Webmail@me.com> <43875562818030942302011713920969996484-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <75cbfa570902251222k7c76be1cx38eb3928d792b500@mail.gmail.com> I'd like to hear a recap of the talks too, wanted to make it but couldn't... should be of general interest to the list From ddascalescu at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 14:28:05 2009 From: ddascalescu at gmail.com (Dan Dascalescu) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:28:05 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: <58023907051168711359251411103841651881-Webmail@me.com> References: <136405033.20090224183013@danlo.com> <58023907051168711359251411103841651881-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <3561cc6d0902251428qe4ae249p1bda6cafb54c4f3a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:36 AM, frosty wrote: > Check out Pingdom. ?I have not used them but I've looked into their service and it looks to me like they have a good reputation and reasonable prices. > > http://pingdom.com/ I haven't tried Pingdom, but I've been using http://Site24x7.com for over a year and have been very pleased. It's free and can monitor uptime, response time, test for page content etc. Dan From masri at nolex.com Wed Feb 25 22:44:39 2009 From: masri at nolex.com (Adam Masri) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:44:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: <3561cc6d0902251428qe4ae249p1bda6cafb54c4f3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <136405033.20090224183013@danlo.com> <58023907051168711359251411103841651881-Webmail@me.com> <3561cc6d0902251428qe4ae249p1bda6cafb54c4f3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81174374-A44E-4C76-8875-5FF8F6C71346@nolex.com> If you want to run the monitor yourself, also check out sysmon. http://sysmon.org/ On Feb 25, 2009, at 2:28 PM, Dan Dascalescu wrote: > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:36 AM, frosty wrote: >> Check out Pingdom. I have not used them but I've looked into their >> service and it looks to me like they have a good reputation and >> reasonable prices. >> >> http://pingdom.com/ > > I haven't tried Pingdom, but I've been using http://Site24x7.com for > over a year and have been very pleased. It's free and can monitor > uptime, response time, test for page content etc. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm Adam Masri masri at nolex.com President www.nolex.com Nolex From barko192 at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 09:22:12 2009 From: barko192 at gmail.com (Matt Barkovich) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:22:12 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: <81174374-A44E-4C76-8875-5FF8F6C71346@nolex.com> References: <136405033.20090224183013@danlo.com> <58023907051168711359251411103841651881-Webmail@me.com> <3561cc6d0902251428qe4ae249p1bda6cafb54c4f3a@mail.gmail.com> <81174374-A44E-4C76-8875-5FF8F6C71346@nolex.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for the advice. I think I'm going to replace my current setup with a combination of Nagios and some external service like Pingdom or Site 24x7. I feel a little more comfortable with the idea, since everyone seems to agree that Nagios "just works" after initial configuration. It also sounds like it will make the sysadmining relatively less painful in the long run. Thanks again, Matt From bob.goolsby at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 16:56:07 2009 From: bob.goolsby at gmail.com (Bob goolsby) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:56:07 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Server downtime reporting and recovery In-Reply-To: References: <136405033.20090224183013@danlo.com> <58023907051168711359251411103841651881-Webmail@me.com> <3561cc6d0902251428qe4ae249p1bda6cafb54c4f3a@mail.gmail.com> <81174374-A44E-4C76-8875-5FF8F6C71346@nolex.com> Message-ID: <1a208dd0902261656v5613bba6x3913f77dbd677969@mail.gmail.com> Adding Nagios to the mix means that you are less likely to be surprised when one of your Babies goes down, it will start pinging you when the Nagios probe fails to return and Nagios sends you a Page. Nagios will notice long before your Boss will. The down side of implementing Nagios is that the Page *always* comes in at the most inopportune time. (The kids are in bed, the lights are turned down low, the two of you are cuddled up in front of the fireplace with half a bottle of a good Red, BZZZZZZZZZZZZT....) B On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Matt Barkovich wrote: > Thanks to everyone for the advice. ?I think I'm going to replace my > current setup with a combination of Nagios and some external service > like Pingdom or Site 24x7. > > I feel a little more comfortable with the idea, since everyone seems > to agree that Nagios "just works" after initial configuration. It also > sounds like it will make the sysadmining relatively less painful in > the long run. > > Thanks again, > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm >