From quinn at fairpath.com  Wed Nov  5 18:39:25 2008
From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:39:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Catalyst survey
References: <D1542422-5361-4075-BECD-A81C5E2027DD@jays.net>
Message-ID: <CCD6C760-0152-49BE-84AF-7ACBFA16ECA9@fairpath.com>

Some Catalyst folks are looking to write a book on the subject.  If you
use Catalyst, you can help them (to make a case to potential publishers)
by answering the survey below.

Catalyst

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net>
> Date: November 5, 2008 5:56:36 PM PST
> Subject: [pm_groups] Fwd: IMPORTANT - help us estimate the size of  
> the Catalyst user base
>
> Please forward to your local group if you deem this appropriate.
>
> Thank you,
>
> j
> Omaha.pm
> Chief pm.org ticket monkey slacker
>
>
>
> From: Kieren Diment <zarquon at cpan.org>
> Date: November 5, 2008 7:51:35 PM CST
>
> Hi All,
>
> Apologies for the cross-posting, I'm trying to representatives of as
> many organisations as possible who use Catalyst as possible to reply
> to this email.
>
> We need your assistance to help estimate the number of users of
> Catalyst.  Matt Trout and I have written a proposal for a Catalyst
> book, and while we have a well known, credible publisher interested,
> they want the assurance that the market for the book is large enough
> to make it worth their while.
>
> If you could take the time to provide the following information (I've
> set reply-to to me for your confidentiality, and so that we don't
> pollute the list with this stuff) this would be really useful.  I'll
> also let you know the results of this survey when I have them.
>
> I will treat this information in confidence, and will only use
> aggregated data so that you or your organisation will not be
> identifiable in the report I make on this data.
>
> There are about 1000 subscribers on the catalyst mailing list, and I'd
> hope for a response rate of about 10% (i.e. about 100 replies).  The
> information I'm collecting is likely to result in an outcome that is
> useful to you in a commercial way, so your participation would be much
> appreciated.
>
> Please try to ensure that only one person from your organisation
> answers these questions.
>
> 1.  What country are you in?
>
> 2.  How many people are on your team?
>
> 3.  How many of those people are writing code with Catalyst?
>
> 3a.  If there are non Catalyst coders on your team, how many of the
> whole team would you like to be writing Catalyst code?
>
> 4.  How many people using Catalyst on your team are subscribers to the
> Catalyst mailing list?
>
> 5.  How many people writing Catalyst code on your team use the
> #catalyst irc channel on irc.perl.org?
>
> 6.  These two questions are about the potential for the growth of
> Catalyst usage in your organisation.
>
> 6a.  How many people do you think will be using Catalyst in your
> organisation in 12 months time?
>
> 6b.  How many people do you think will be using Catalyst in your
> organisation in 2 years time?
>
> Thanks for your cooperation.  If you know of any teams who are users
> of Catalyst but that do not subscribe to the Catalyst mailing list, or
> are on the IRC channel, please forward this email to them.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kieren Diment
>
> --
> Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org
>
> pm_groups mailing list
> pm_groups at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups
>

__
Quinn Weaver
Full-stack web consultant
http://fairpath.com/
510-520-5217 (mobile)




From wiltondonald at gmail.com  Sat Nov  8 20:08:30 2008
From: wiltondonald at gmail.com (donald wilton)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:08:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl project
Message-ID: <222db9200811082008u54baafd7k19a6cfcadac45f9e@mail.gmail.com>

Donald Wilton

Donald Wilton

wiltondonald at gmail.com



Perlmonger group

Via the internet



I am a member of your mailing list. I have decided to learn Perl. This is
the logical place to get information on Perl. I have cracked the book.
However, I do think that since I'm doing this for a project, that I choose
to tell you about it. I have a genetic disorder so while I would prefer to
do this myself I could use the help.



I have a reason for learning Perl. I have slowly pieced together a basic set
of semantic values that expand upon the work of Korzybski. He invented the
term time binding to define what the verb to be does. His work created the
field of cognitive behavioral psychology. This area of psychology is unique
in solving mental health problems. While other mental self help groups have
a 10% recovery rate?equivalent to the ambient recovery rate?cognitive
behavioral groups post 70%. Yet CBT is based on only one conjugation of the
verb to be. I propose 10 conjugations. When placed on an XYZ graph, this
yields at least 1000 types of observable insanity.



Secondly, I have figured out 10 basic building blocks of insanity. Using
both on an XYZ graph yields at least 1,000,000 possible combinations useful
in investigation of the market.



I think that I might have the basis of a new financial instrument. I'm
looking forward to checking a theory of mine. I think that population
pressure causes insanity. Paying off the effect of population pressure is
the reason for charity. It can only go so far. My instrument depends on
buying put options that pay at 1000 to 1.



I think that transferring percentage of the put options to a charity that is
mathematically the opposite of the problem that made the guarantee of
investing successful could pay off all debts. Normally the average person
won't make money since paying the population costs is impossible. If you're
targeting the insane and you put enough money into a not for profit, that is
the exact opposite?a mathematically unlikely event?then I suspect that
something unique will happen. I think that the schizophrenics (who make up
16% of the population in 10 basic kinds) will flip on backwards. I think
that this is the basis of the term "flipping out." This is of such
importance to business that it merits the status of a financial instrument,
if we can do this.



I am willing to discuss the full details. I am not willing to do this on the
list aside from suggestions on how to proceed. If you think that you can do
the work and are willing to try, I will talk about the dangers and my
intuitions on what is needed to succeed. You can contact me by email. If you
leave your phone number, I will call you. I can talk much better than I can
write.



I think that working on my ideas will pay the cost for awhile. No matter
what the ideas are as a reflection of our culture, I am considered the same
human kin selection as Bill. I might be able to assist in halting some of
the evil that we have unleashed to make the poor interested in digital.


-- 
I voted for Barak Obama and I hope that it does something meaningful for
America!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081108/a06c354f/attachment.html>

From quinn at fairpath.com  Sat Nov  8 20:40:15 2008
From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 23:40:15 -0500
Subject: [sf-perl] perl project
Message-ID: <C18C5301-8A50-4F32-9066-A9F9572B8AB9@fairpath.com>

Dear Donald,

Your long, rambling post shows all the hallmarks of the psychotic  
thought disorder. Please seek help from a psychiatrist. You need it.

--
Quinn Weaver
Full-stack web developer
http://fairpath.com/
510-520-5217 (mobile)


On Nov 8, 2008, at 11:08 PM, "donald wilton" <wiltondonald at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Donald Wilton
>
> wiltondonald at gmail.com
>
>
>
> Perlmonger group
>
> Via the internet
>
>
>
> I am a member of your mailing list. I have decided to learn Perl.  
> This is the logical place to get information on Perl. I have cracked  
> the book. However, I do think that since I'm doing this for a  
> project, that I choose to tell you about it. I have a genetic  
> disorder so while I would prefer to do this myself I could use the  
> help.
>
>
>
> I have a reason for learning Perl. I have slowly pieced together a  
> basic set of semantic values that expand upon the work of Korzybski.  
> He invented the term time binding to define what the verb to be  
> does. His work created the field of cognitive behavioral psychology.  
> This area of psychology is unique in solving mental health problems.  
> While other  mental self help groups have a 10% recovery rate?equiva 
> lent to the ambient recovery rate?cognitive behavioral groups post 7 
> 0%. Yet CBT is based on only one conjugation of the verb to be. I pr 
> opose 10 conjugations. When placed on an XYZ graph, this yields at l 
> east 1000 types of observable insanity.
>
>
>
> Secondly, I have figured out 10 basic building blocks of insanity.  
> Using both on an XYZ graph yields at least  1,000,000 possible  
> combinations useful in investigation of the market.
>
>
>
> I think that I might have the basis of a new financial instrument.  
> I'm looking forward to checking a theory of mine. I think that  
> population pressure causes insanity. Paying off the effect of  
> population pressure is the reason for charity. It can only go so  
> far. My instrument depends on buying put options that pay at 1000 to  
> 1.
>
>
>
> I think that transferring percentage of the put options to a charity  
> that is mathematically the opposite of the problem that made the  
> guarantee of investing successful could pay off all  debts. Normally  
> the average person won't make money since paying the population  
> costs is impossible. If you're targeting the insane and you put  
> enough money into a not for profit, that is the exact opposite?a mat 
> hematically unlikely event?then I suspect that something unique will 
>  happen. I think that the schizophrenics (who make up 16% of the pop 
> ulation in 10 basic kinds) will flip on backwards. I think that this 
>  is the basis of the term "flipping out." This is of such importance 
>  to business that it merits the status of a financial instrument, if 
>  we can do this.
>
>
>
> I am willing to discuss the full details. I am not willing to do  
> this on the list aside from suggestions on how to proceed. If you  
> think that you can do the work and are willing to try, I will talk  
> about the dangers and my intuitions on what is needed to succeed.  
> You can contact me by email. If you leave your phone number, I will  
> call you. I can talk much better than I can write.
>
>
>
> I think that working on my ideas will pay the cost for awhile. No  
> matter what the ideas are as a reflection of our culture, I am  
> considered the same human kin selection as Bill. I might be able to  
> assist in halting some of the evil that we have unleashed to make  
> the poor interested in digital.
>
>
>
> -- 
> I voted for Barak Obama and I hope that it does something meaningful  
> for America!
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081108/db8300dc/attachment.html>

From wsanders at cruzio.com  Mon Nov 10 11:49:06 2008
From: wsanders at cruzio.com (Walt Sanders)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:49:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
Message-ID: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>

I'm new to apple machines and have had no luck getting my perl  
programs to run.  Had no problem with my previous PC machines.  I have  
BBEdit and Dreamweaver and Komodo, but nothing works.  Must be some  
obvious thing that I don't know?

Specifically, I need to run html generating perl programs on a browser  
on my machine for testing.  All I get is the code in the browser.

If I run perl in Terminal, it runs ok, so long as there is no html.   
In the case of html, it just lists the code.

Grateful for whatever, Walt.

From alex at strlen.net  Mon Nov 10 11:54:29 2008
From: alex at strlen.net (Alex Feinberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:54:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>

Terminal executes the script. Terminal can't render HTML. Web
browser can only render HTML, it can't execute scripts. 

You need to have a web server setup and configured to execute CGI
scripts/mod_perl for that. How to do that will probably be beyond a
single message, but OS X includes Apache which is the de-facto
standard for web servers.

Or you can use command redirection to test, e.g.:

  perl  myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html

    Thanks,

On Monday, 10 November 2008 at 11:49:06 -0800, Walt Sanders wrote:
> I'm new to apple machines and have had no luck getting my perl  
> programs to run.  Had no problem with my previous PC machines.  I have  
> BBEdit and Dreamweaver and Komodo, but nothing works.  Must be some  
> obvious thing that I don't know?
> 
> Specifically, I need to run html generating perl programs on a browser  
> on my machine for testing.  All I get is the code in the browser.
> 
> If I run perl in Terminal, it runs ok, so long as there is no html.   
> In the case of html, it just lists the code.
> 
> Grateful for whatever, Walt.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

From wsanders at cruzio.com  Mon Nov 10 12:06:45 2008
From: wsanders at cruzio.com (Walt Sanders)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:06:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
Message-ID: <798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>

Thanks much, I will play with these suggestions.  Have to leave just  
now, but later.

Isn't there a nice editor for the Mac that will run perl browser style  
within the editor?  Had a nice one on my PC (DZSoft, a russian  
product) that worked beautifully.  Really miss the convenience of that  
program.

Walt.



On Monday, at , Alex Feinberg wrote:

> Terminal executes the script. Terminal can't render HTML. Web
> browser can only render HTML, it can't execute scripts.
>
> You need to have a web server setup and configured to execute CGI
> scripts/mod_perl for that. How to do that will probably be beyond a
> single message, but OS X includes Apache which is the de-facto
> standard for web servers.
>
> Or you can use command redirection to test, e.g.:
>
>  perl  myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
>
>    Thanks,
>
> On Monday, 10 November 2008 at 11:49:06 -0800, Walt Sanders wrote:
>> I'm new to apple machines and have had no luck getting my perl
>> programs to run.  Had no problem with my previous PC machines.  I  
>> have
>> BBEdit and Dreamweaver and Komodo, but nothing works.  Must be some
>> obvious thing that I don't know?
>>
>> Specifically, I need to run html generating perl programs on a  
>> browser
>> on my machine for testing.  All I get is the code in the browser.
>>
>> If I run perl in Terminal, it runs ok, so long as there is no html.
>> In the case of html, it just lists the code.
>>
>> Grateful for whatever, Walt.
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Mon Nov 10 12:14:33 2008
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:14:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
Message-ID: <8A27E5EB-413D-4BEE-8CEA-BBD39BEBD9BD@highwire.stanford.edu>

A pretty good beginner's guide to how to enable CGI on OS X's apache  
and where to store your scripts so you can run them is:
	http://www.cgi101.com/learn/connect/mac.html

Basically, you find the default httpd.conf file, turn on CGI, and then  
turn on "Personal Web Sharing".

Hrm, those instructions should be slightly changed for Leopard. Now  
it's System Preferences->Sharing->Web Sharing and httpd.conf is under / 
etc/apache2/httpd.conf, but it should be pretty straightforward with  
those two location changes.

-- Mike

On Nov 10, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Alex Feinberg wrote:

> Terminal executes the script. Terminal can't render HTML. Web
> browser can only render HTML, it can't execute scripts.
>
> You need to have a web server setup and configured to execute CGI
> scripts/mod_perl for that. How to do that will probably be beyond a
> single message, but OS X includes Apache which is the de-facto
> standard for web servers.
>
> Or you can use command redirection to test, e.g.:
>
>  perl  myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
>
>    Thanks,
>
> On Monday, 10 November 2008 at 11:49:06 -0800, Walt Sanders wrote:
>> I'm new to apple machines and have had no luck getting my perl
>> programs to run.  Had no problem with my previous PC machines.  I  
>> have
>> BBEdit and Dreamweaver and Komodo, but nothing works.  Must be some
>> obvious thing that I don't know?
>>
>> Specifically, I need to run html generating perl programs on a  
>> browser
>> on my machine for testing.  All I get is the code in the browser.
>>
>> If I run perl in Terminal, it runs ok, so long as there is no html.
>> In the case of html, it just lists the code.
>>
>> Grateful for whatever, Walt.
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From dave at wrightpopcorn.com  Mon Nov 10 13:05:05 2008
From: dave at wrightpopcorn.com (Dave Turner)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:05:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <4918A201.2050301@wrightpopcorn.com>

I used to use DZsoft as well, but I use Context now but there doesn't
seem to be a Mac version. Have you looked at Eclipse
http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/? It might be more than you need but
it's free.




Walt Sanders wrote:
> Thanks much, I will play with these suggestions.  Have to leave just
> now, but later.
>
> Isn't there a nice editor for the Mac that will run perl browser style
> within the editor?  Had a nice one on my PC (DZSoft, a russian
> product) that worked beautifully.  Really miss the convenience of that
> program.
>
> Walt.
>
>
>
> On Monday, at , Alex Feinberg wrote:
>
>> Terminal executes the script. Terminal can't render HTML. Web
>> browser can only render HTML, it can't execute scripts.
>>
>> You need to have a web server setup and configured to execute CGI
>> scripts/mod_perl for that. How to do that will probably be beyond a
>> single message, but OS X includes Apache which is the de-facto
>> standard for web servers.
>>
>> Or you can use command redirection to test, e.g.:
>>
>>  perl  myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
>>
>>    Thanks,
>>
>> On Monday, 10 November 2008 at 11:49:06 -0800, Walt Sanders wrote:
>>> I'm new to apple machines and have had no luck getting my perl
>>> programs to run.  Had no problem with my previous PC machines.  I have
>>> BBEdit and Dreamweaver and Komodo, but nothing works.  Must be some
>>> obvious thing that I don't know?
>>>
>>> Specifically, I need to run html generating perl programs on a browser
>>> on my machine for testing.  All I get is the code in the browser.
>>>
>>> If I run perl in Terminal, it runs ok, so long as there is no html.
>>> In the case of html, it just lists the code.
>>>
>>> Grateful for whatever, Walt.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1779 - Release Date: 11/10/2008 7:53 AM
>
>   
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081110/b516c43c/attachment.html>

From wsanders at cruzio.com  Wed Nov 12 07:38:50 2008
From: wsanders at cruzio.com (Walt Sanders)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:38:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <4918A201.2050301@wrightpopcorn.com>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<4918A201.2050301@wrightpopcorn.com>
Message-ID: <5F3C4868-EEF6-41F3-BD73-8644E22A54D6@cruzio.com>

Thanks again Alex, Mike, Dave.   I finally got back to this last night  
and tried most of the things suggested here and on the website.  Still  
no luck.  Don't know if I've some corruption or if it is just my total  
ignorance of Apache.

Guess I will have to seek out someone to take my machine to, someone  
who can figure out why it won't run .pl or .cgi.  If you know someone  
that might do this for me, please let me know.  I would, of course,  
pay for the service.

Haven't played with Eclipse yet, but I doubt that it can help unless  
it is a totally stand-alone product.

Appreciate the thoughts, Walt.




On Monday, at , Dave Turner wrote:

> I used to use DZsoft as well, but I use Context now but there  
> doesn't seem to be a Mac version. Have you looked at Eclipse http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/? 
>  It might be more than you need but it's free.
>
>
>
>
> Walt Sanders wrote:
>>
>> Thanks much, I will play with these suggestions.  Have to leave  
>> just now, but later.
>>
>> Isn't there a nice editor for the Mac that will run perl browser  
>> style within the editor?  Had a nice one on my PC (DZSoft, a  
>> russian product) that worked beautifully.  Really miss the  
>> convenience of that program.
>>
>> Walt.




>> On Monday, at , Michael Frieddman wrote:


A pretty good beginner's guide to how to enable CGI on OS X's apache  
and where to store your scripts so you can run them is:
	http://www.cgi101.com/learn/connect/mac.html

Basically, you find the default httpd.conf file, turn on CGI, and then  
turn on "Personal Web Sharing".

Hrm, those instructions should be slightly changed for Leopard. Now  
it's System Preferences->Sharing->Web Sharing and httpd.conf is under / 
etc/apache2/httpd.conf, but it should be pretty straightforward with  
those two location changes.

-- Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, at , Alex Feinberg wrote:
>>
>>> Terminal executes the script. Terminal can't render HTML. Web
>>> browser can only render HTML, it can't execute scripts.
>>>
>>> You need to have a web server setup and configured to execute CGI
>>> scripts/mod_perl for that. How to do that will probably be beyond a
>>> single message, but OS X includes Apache which is the de-facto
>>> standard for web servers.
>>>
>>> Or you can use command redirection to test, e.g.:
>>>
>>>  perl  myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
>>>
>>>    Thanks,
>>>
>>> On Monday, 10 November 2008 at 11:49:06 -0800, Walt Sanders wrote:
>>>> I'm new to apple machines and have had no luck getting my perl
>>>> programs to run.  Had no problem with my previous PC machines.  I  
>>>> have
>>>> BBEdit and Dreamweaver and Komodo, but nothing works.  Must be some
>>>> obvious thing that I don't know?
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, I need to run html generating perl programs on a  
>>>> browser
>>>> on my machine for testing.  All I get is the code in the browser.
>>>>
>>>> If I run perl in Terminal, it runs ok, so long as there is no html.
>>>> In the case of html, it just lists the code.
>>>>
>>>> Grateful for whatever, Walt.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081112/b96ed9c3/attachment.html>

From AFife at untangle.com  Wed Nov 12 13:49:03 2008
From: AFife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:49:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] OpenMoko CEO @ BALUG (Tuesday Nov 18)
Message-ID: <9347C2AED406124287DD2A007EB15B130183949CA1@EXCHANGE.Untangle.local>

Hi Folks:



Sean Moss-Pultz will be speaking at BALUG on Tuesday (11/18).  Sean

is the CEO and founder of The OpenMoko Project, which makes a open

source linux based cell phone called the NEO FreeRunner.  Sean is a

self described San Diego surfer that landed in Taiwan as a software

developer working on embedded systems, which ultimately led to the

founding of OpenMoko.  More info on Sean, OpenMoko and the Neo

FreeRunner at these links:



http://moss-pultz.com/

http://www.openmoko.com/

http://www.openmoko.com/product.html



We're expecting a great crowd, so if you'd like to join us please RSVP:



  RSVP at balug.org



**Why RSVP??**



Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the

Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to eat

upstairs in the private banquet room.  Bottomline:  if we don't have 40

RSVPs the day before the meeting, we don't get the banquet room.



Meeting Details...



  6:30pm

  November 18th, 2008 (Next Tuesday)



  Four Seas Restaurant

  731 Grant Ave.

  San Francisco, CA 94108

  Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny



Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13



--

Andrew Fife

Untangle - The Open Source Network Gateway

www.untangle.com/download



650.425.3327 desk

415.806.6028 cell

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081112/cbaa7be9/attachment.html>

From dave at wrightpopcorn.com  Fri Nov 14 12:14:59 2008
From: dave at wrightpopcorn.com (Dave Turner)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:14:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>

Walt - just saw this on Digg.com and thought it might help you with the
editor choice you were pondering the other day:
http://sixrevisions.com/tools/12-excellent-free-text-editors-for-coders/

HTH!




Walt Sanders wrote:
> Thanks much, I will play with these suggestions.  Have to leave just
> now, but later.
>
> Isn't there a nice editor for the Mac that will run perl browser style
> within the editor?  Had a nice one on my PC (DZSoft, a russian
> product) that worked beautifully.  Really miss the convenience of that
> program.
>
> Walt.
>
>
>
> On Monday, at , Alex Feinberg wrote:
>
>> Terminal executes the script. Terminal can't render HTML. Web
>> browser can only render HTML, it can't execute scripts.
>>
>> You need to have a web server setup and configured to execute CGI
>> scripts/mod_perl for that. How to do that will probably be beyond a
>> single message, but OS X includes Apache which is the de-facto
>> standard for web servers.
>>
>> Or you can use command redirection to test, e.g.:
>>
>>  perl  myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
>>
>>    Thanks,
>>
>> On Monday, 10 November 2008 at 11:49:06 -0800, Walt Sanders wrote:
>>> I'm new to apple machines and have had no luck getting my perl
>>> programs to run.  Had no problem with my previous PC machines.  I have
>>> BBEdit and Dreamweaver and Komodo, but nothing works.  Must be some
>>> obvious thing that I don't know?
>>>
>>> Specifically, I need to run html generating perl programs on a browser
>>> on my machine for testing.  All I get is the code in the browser.
>>>
>>> If I run perl in Terminal, it runs ok, so long as there is no html.
>>> In the case of html, it just lists the code.
>>>
>>> Grateful for whatever, Walt.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1779 - Release Date: 11/10/2008 7:53 AM
>
>   
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081114/2d1f7df5/attachment.html>

From wsanders at cruzio.com  Fri Nov 14 13:57:39 2008
From: wsanders at cruzio.com (Walt Sanders)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:57:39 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
Message-ID: <BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>

Very interesting.  Bluefish and Smultron look interesting, but the  
comments led me to Coda, which I really like.  Still won't interpret  
perl for me tho.  Thanks again, Walt.




On Friday, at , Dave Turner wrote:

> Walt - just saw this on Digg.com and thought it might help you with  
> the editor choice you were pondering the other day:http://sixrevisions.com/tools/12-excellent-free-text-editors-for-coders/
>
> HTH!

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081114/242756ca/attachment.html>

From matt at lanier.org  Fri Nov 14 14:23:31 2008
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:23:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>


Hello Fellow SFPUG members-

A little over 10 years ago, David Lowe and I started the SFPUG as an 
experiment to see if a place to discuss perl and related community issues 
could exist that would be just a little more friendly than 
comp.lang.perl.misc.  With the help of a few early supporters (rich and 
vicki brown, david fetter, and some that i've likely forgotten) and the 
leader of the group for the past 7 years (quinn weaver), we did it!  It's 
been fun.


Since then, we're still standing as one of the remaining bay area PUGs 
(not including other uses of the word PUG that don't mean perl Users 
Group).  We have a slice of the movers and shakers in the perl community 
among our ranks, and we have successfully claimed the 4th tuesday of the 
month as our night ;-).  We've even spun off a group, Rich Brown's Beer 
and Scripting sig.  We've gotten each other jobs, and answered each 
others' questions.  We're a member of the perl pantheon along with the 
other PUGs of the world.


As you know, Quinn has moved on to concentrate on other things in his 
life, and he's handed the SFPUG back to me.  For the same reasons that 
performed the initial handoff to Quinn, though, I am still unable to 
dedicate the resources to leading the SFPUG that it deserves, as much as 
I'd like to be able to do so.


It's time for the SFPUG to have a new leader that can take it into the 
next decade of open source fun.  The job is equal parts fun (getting smart 
people to present at the meetings, representing at OSCON), administrivia 
(monitoring a mailing list along with me, the list grandma), and hard work 
(geting smart people to present at the meetings ;-).  It's perfect for 
someone looking for a foothold from which a mark can be made on the perl 
community.  And it's cool to put on your resume.


I'm giving this process a few months.  If I can find a new leader for the 
SFPUG, great!  If I can't, then we need to have a frank discussion 
regarding our future.  Surely there is someone here that is interested in 
the task.  Ping me back, and lets chat.

Yours in perl-

m@

-- 

Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
matt at lanier.org
http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com

From jpenkethman at verizon.net  Sat Nov 15 11:41:02 2008
From: jpenkethman at verizon.net (John Penkethman)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:41:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
	<BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>

Well, I had a problem running Perl at first. I know very little about  
Unix or Perl so I asked some one to show me. It turned out that many  
Unix users have the current directory in the path, which means all you  
have to do in type the filename of the program. My friend typed in

./myperlprog.pl   , with the "dot-slash"

and away it ran. Apparently, Perl on the Mac does not setup with "."  
in the path. Or something like that.

Jack


On Nov 14, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:

> Very interesting.  Bluefish and Smultron look interesting, but the  
> comments led me to Coda, which I really like.  Still won't interpret  
> perl for me tho.  Thanks again, Walt.
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, at , Dave Turner wrote:
>
>> Walt - just saw this on Digg.com and thought it might help you with  
>> the editor choice you were pondering the other day:http://sixrevisions.com/tools/12-excellent-free-text-editors-for-coders/
>>
>> HTH!
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081115/a5c6c483/attachment.html>

From rdm at cfcl.com  Sat Nov 15 10:54:02 2008
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:54:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
	<BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
	<C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <p0623093ec544ca35adf7@[192.168.1.205]>

At 11:41 -0800 11/15/08, John Penkethman wrote:
>Apparently, Perl on the Mac does not setup with "." in
>the path. Or something like that.

The path is maintained and used by the shell.  It is
used to find commands which are invoked with neither
relative (eg, ./foo) or absolute (eg, /bin/foo) names.

The current directory is often left off the path, for
reasons of security.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Sun Nov 16 07:22:21 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:22:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
	<BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
	<C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <2958C189-539E-4F09-BA67-AF27A617623D@pacificwebdesign.org>

Jack, my bad.  I've forgotten that I can run a "Hello World" in  
Terminal, just straight out.  It is when the program produces a web  
page that it won't run.  With or without the ./

Terminal won't run it of course, it just spits that code back at me.   
But, if I try to run it in a browser, of try to preview it in an  
editor, it still spits code back at me.  This is any program that runs  
perfectly fine when I upload it to any one of my ISP servers.  I can  
just download any working .cgi or .pl from one of my websites and it  
won't run on my machine.

Still think I'm just missing something, possibly with the path?   
Whatever, but thanks Jack.





On Saturday, at , John Penkethman wrote:

> Well, I had a problem running Perl at first. I know very little  
> about Unix or Perl so I asked some one to show me. It turned out  
> that many Unix users have the current directory in the path, which  
> means all you have to do in type the filename of the program. My  
> friend typed in
>
> ./myperlprog.pl   , with the "dot-slash"
>
> and away it ran. Apparently, Perl on the Mac does not setup with "."  
> in the path. Or something like that.
>
> Jack
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:
>
>> Very interesting.  Bluefish and Smultron look interesting, but the  
>> comments led me to Coda, which I really like.  Still won't  
>> interpret perl for me tho.  Thanks again, Walt.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, at , Dave Turner wrote:
>>
>>> Walt - just saw this on Digg.com and thought it might help you  
>>> with the editor choice you were pondering the other day:http://sixrevisions.com/tools/12-excellent-free-text-editors-for-coders/
>>>
>>> HTH!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081116/9cbed293/attachment.html>

From danlyke at flutterby.com  Sun Nov 16 09:16:10 2008
From: danlyke at flutterby.com (Dan Lyke)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:16:10 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <2958C189-539E-4F09-BA67-AF27A617623D@pacificwebdesign.org>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
	<BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
	<C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
	<2958C189-539E-4F09-BA67-AF27A617623D@pacificwebdesign.org>
Message-ID: <20081116091610.1084a046@danhplaptop>

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:22:21 -0800
Walt Sanders <wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org> wrote:
> Terminal won't run it of course, it just spits that code back at
> me. But, if I try to run it in a browser, of try to preview it in an  
> editor, it still spits code back at me.  This is any program that
> runs perfectly fine when I upload it to any one of my ISP servers.

Right. You need to either:

1. Pipe the output to an html file (although you'll need to strip the
"Content-Type: text/html\n\n" first two lines). For instance:

   stuff.cgi > output.html
   perl -npi.bak -e 's/^Content-Type: .*$//;' output.html

   And then open output.html in your web browser. If this is a Mac, you
   could do "open output.html", on a Gnome based Linux machine, you'd
   do "gnome-open output.html". Or, in either machine (or even Windows),
   you can have that folder opened and double-click on output.html.

2. Run this under a web server on your local machine.

> I can just download any working .cgi or .pl from one of my
> websites and it won't run on my machine.

When you say "won't run", what's the *exact* (copied and pasted) output
you get from one of these programs. Does it look like:

danlyke at danhplaptop:~$ ./test.pl 
bash: ./test.pl: /usr/share/perl: bad interpreter: No such file or
directory danlyke at danhplaptop:~$

If so, then the Perl interpreter on your web server is in a different
place than on your Mac. However, it's fairly clear that you're a
relative newbie (no harm in that, just gotta be more specific), so
phrases like "Doesn't work" and "won't run" don't help us to debug the
problem for you.

Dan

From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Sun Nov 16 10:15:46 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:15:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <20081116091610.1084a046@danhplaptop>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
	<BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
	<C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
	<2958C189-539E-4F09-BA67-AF27A617623D@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<20081116091610.1084a046@danhplaptop>
Message-ID: <1D1F6687-A8B4-4180-8323-96CF5D70345B@pacificwebdesign.org>

You quite right about the newbie bit, although I've written dozens of  
perl programs and have many websites using them, it has always been  
"get the job done" and 'someday' I'll master the sophistication.  This  
always worked on my PCs, but this Mac thing has me stopped cold.

Here is the top bit of output from Terminal:

-----------------------------
Rang:desktop Rang$ perl idpass.cgi
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

<!DOCTYPE html
	PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
	 "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en- 
US">
<head>
<title>ID Yourself</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;  
charset=iso-8859-1" />
</head>
<body>
<body bgcolor='#00ffff'  
onLoad='document.regform.name.focus();'><p><br><br><table width='650'  
cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' border='0'  
align='center'><tr><td><center><a href='indexcm.html'><font size='2'  
color='#ff0000'><b>Return</b></font></a></center><p /><center><font  
size='4'><b>Member's Personal Site Registration</b></font></center><p / 
 ><center><font size='2' color='#ff0000'><b>(&nbsp;Please read and  
follow these instructions carefully!&nbsp;)</b></font></center><p />

etc.
------------------------------


The html is mostly done with print commands or with >> sections.  Here  
is the toping:

-----------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use CGI qw( :standard );
use Fcntl qw( :flock );

print( header() );
print( start_html( 'ID Yourself' ) );

print("<body bgcolor='#00ffff'  
onLoad='document.regform.name.focus();'>");
print("<p><br><br>");

etc.
------------------------------


All rather simple minded, but it works fine everywhere if I don't try  
it on my Mac!  If I run something without html, like

      #!/usr/bin/perl -w
      print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
      print "Hello, world";

it works just fine.  I get just the two lines printed.

Walt.




On Sunday, at , Dan Lyke wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:22:21 -0800
> Walt Sanders <wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org> wrote:
>> Terminal won't run it of course, it just spits that code back at
>> me. But, if I try to run it in a browser, of try to preview it in an
>> editor, it still spits code back at me.  This is any program that
>> runs perfectly fine when I upload it to any one of my ISP servers.
>
> Right. You need to either:
>
> 1. Pipe the output to an html file (although you'll need to strip the
> "Content-Type: text/html\n\n" first two lines). For instance:
>
>   stuff.cgi > output.html
>   perl -npi.bak -e 's/^Content-Type: .*$//;' output.html
>
>   And then open output.html in your web browser. If this is a Mac, you
>   could do "open output.html", on a Gnome based Linux machine, you'd
>   do "gnome-open output.html". Or, in either machine (or even  
> Windows),
>   you can have that folder opened and double-click on output.html.
>
> 2. Run this under a web server on your local machine.
>
>> I can just download any working .cgi or .pl from one of my
>> websites and it won't run on my machine.
>
> When you say "won't run", what's the *exact* (copied and pasted)  
> output
> you get from one of these programs. Does it look like:
>
> danlyke at danhplaptop:~$ ./test.pl
> bash: ./test.pl: /usr/share/perl: bad interpreter: No such file or
> directory danlyke at danhplaptop:~$
>
> If so, then the Perl interpreter on your web server is in a different
> place than on your Mac. However, it's fairly clear that you're a
> relative newbie (no harm in that, just gotta be more specific), so
> phrases like "Doesn't work" and "won't run" don't help us to debug the
> problem for you.
>
> Dan


From darin_fisher at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 16 10:33:59 2008
From: darin_fisher at yahoo.com (Darin Fisher)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:33:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
	<BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
	<C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
	<2958C189-539E-4F09-BA67-AF27A617623D@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<20081116091610.1084a046@danhplaptop>
	<1D1F6687-A8B4-4180-8323-96CF5D70345B@pacificwebdesign.org>
Message-ID: <175529.44375.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This seems to be a web server configuration problem.
I am not very familiar with OS X stock configuration.

If you are running Apache v2.2.x add something similar to the following to the httpd.conf file:


<Directory "/usr/local/apache2/cgi-bin">
    AllowOverride None
    Options +ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

"/usr/local/apache2/cgi-bin" needs to be set to your specific cgi-bin directory.

Also, you will probably want this to be the last <Directory> clause in your configuration file.

The key option here is the 'Options +ExecCGI'.
See the Apache documentation for more information: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#directory

Note, don't forget to restart Apache after making the changes.

-Darin


 Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
- Brendan Gill




________________________________
From: Walt Sanders <wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org>
To: Dan Lyke <danlyke at flutterby.com>
Cc: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:15:46 AM
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac

You quite right about the newbie bit, although I've written dozens of perl programs and have many websites using them, it has always been "get the job done" and 'someday' I'll master the sophistication.  This always worked on my PCs, but this Mac thing has me stopped cold.

Here is the top bit of output from Terminal:

-----------------------------
Rang:desktop Rang$ perl idpass.cgi
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

<!DOCTYPE html
    PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
     "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">
<head>
<title>ID Yourself</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
</head>
<body>
<body bgcolor='#00ffff' onLoad='document.regform.name.focus();'><p><br><br><table width='650' cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' border='0' align='center'><tr><td><center><a href='indexcm.html'><font size='2' color='#ff0000'><b>Return</b></font></a></center><p /><center><font size='4'><b>Member's Personal Site Registration</b></font></center><p /><center><font size='2' color='#ff0000'><b>(&nbsp;Please read and follow these instructions carefully!&nbsp;)</b></font></center><p />

etc.
------------------------------


The html is mostly done with print commands or with >> sections.  Here is the toping:

-----------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use CGI qw( :standard );
use Fcntl qw( :flock );

print( header() );
print( start_html( 'ID Yourself' ) );

print("<body bgcolor='#00ffff' onLoad='document.regform.name.focus();'>");
print("<p><br><br>");

etc.
------------------------------


All rather simple minded, but it works fine everywhere if I don't try it on my Mac!  If I run something without html, like

     #!/usr/bin/perl -w
     print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
     print "Hello, world";

it works just fine.  I get just the two lines printed.

Walt.




On Sunday, at , Dan Lyke wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:22:21 -0800
> Walt Sanders <wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org> wrote:
>> Terminal won't run it of course, it just spits that code back at
>> me. But, if I try to run it in a browser, of try to preview it in an
>> editor, it still spits code back at me.  This is any program that
>> runs perfectly fine when I upload it to any one of my ISP servers.
> 
> Right. You need to either:
> 
> 1. Pipe the output to an html file (although you'll need to strip the
> "Content-Type: text/html\n\n" first two lines). For instance:
> 
>   stuff.cgi > output.html
>   perl -npi.bak -e 's/^Content-Type: .*$//;' output.html
> 
>   And then open output.html in your web browser. If this is a Mac, you
>   could do "open output.html", on a Gnome based Linux machine, you'd
>   do "gnome-open output.html". Or, in either machine (or even Windows),
>   you can have that folder opened and double-click on output.html.
> 
> 2. Run this under a web server on your local machine.
> 
>> I can just download any working .cgi or .pl from one of my
>> websites and it won't run on my machine.
> 
> When you say "won't run", what's the *exact* (copied and pasted) output
> you get from one of these programs. Does it look like:
> 
> danlyke at danhplaptop:~$ ./test.pl
> bash: ./test.pl: /usr/share/perl: bad interpreter: No such file or
> directory danlyke at danhplaptop:~$
> 
> If so, then the Perl interpreter on your web server is in a different
> place than on your Mac. However, it's fairly clear that you're a
> relative newbie (no harm in that, just gotta be more specific), so
> phrases like "Doesn't work" and "won't run" don't help us to debug the
> problem for you.
> 
> Dan

_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081116/587facb0/attachment-0001.html>

From david at fetter.org  Sun Nov 16 11:54:35 2008
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:54:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <20081116195435.GB3616@fetter.org>

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 02:23:31PM -0800, Matthew Lanier wrote:
>
> Hello Fellow SFPUG members-
>
> A little over 10 years ago, David Lowe and I started the SFPUG as an  
> experiment to see if a place to discuss perl and related community issues 
> could exist that would be just a little more friendly than  
> comp.lang.perl.misc.  With the help of a few early supporters (rich and  
> vicki brown, david fetter, and some that i've likely forgotten) and the  
> leader of the group for the past 7 years (quinn weaver), we did it!  It's 
> been fun.
>
> Since then, we're still standing as one of the remaining bay area PUGs  
> (not including other uses of the word PUG that don't mean perl Users  
> Group).  We have a slice of the movers and shakers in the perl community  
> among our ranks, and we have successfully claimed the 4th tuesday of the  
> month as our night ;-).  We've even spun off a group, Rich Brown's Beer  

It's Rich Morin, btw ;)

> and Scripting sig.  We've gotten each other jobs, and answered each  
> others' questions.  We're a member of the perl pantheon along with the  
> other PUGs of the world.
>
> As you know, Quinn has moved on to concentrate on other things in his  
> life, and he's handed the SFPUG back to me.  For the same reasons that  
> performed the initial handoff to Quinn, though, I am still unable to  
> dedicate the resources to leading the SFPUG that it deserves, as much as  
> I'd like to be able to do so.

If nobody steps up, I can do this.

Cheers,
David.
>
>
> It's time for the SFPUG to have a new leader that can take it into the  
> next decade of open source fun.  The job is equal parts fun (getting 
> smart people to present at the meetings, representing at OSCON), 
> administrivia (monitoring a mailing list along with me, the list 
> grandma), and hard work (geting smart people to present at the meetings 
> ;-).  It's perfect for someone looking for a foothold from which a mark 
> can be made on the perl community.  And it's cool to put on your resume.
>
>
> I'm giving this process a few months.  If I can find a new leader for the 
> SFPUG, great!  If I can't, then we need to have a frank discussion  
> regarding our future.  Surely there is someone here that is interested in 
> the task.  Ping me back, and lets chat.
>
> Yours in perl-
>
> m@
>
> -- 
>
> Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
> matt at lanier.org
> http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From garth.webb at gmail.com  Mon Nov 17 11:39:04 2008
From: garth.webb at gmail.com (Garth Webb)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:39:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <1D1F6687-A8B4-4180-8323-96CF5D70345B@pacificwebdesign.org>
References: <46420631-9A92-40FD-972F-E194BB6BF353@cruzio.com>
	<20081110195429.GA8052@strlen.net>
	<798D7133-89E6-460C-9EE4-823CAAC75944@cruzio.com>
	<491DDC43.30200@wrightpopcorn.com>
	<BBAC708C-4D49-4D7D-9BEC-C54BDC62FBA1@cruzio.com>
	<C387C9AF-538C-40A5-80E8-A5542CA15CD7@verizon.net>
	<2958C189-539E-4F09-BA67-AF27A617623D@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<20081116091610.1084a046@danhplaptop>
	<1D1F6687-A8B4-4180-8323-96CF5D70345B@pacificwebdesign.org>
Message-ID: <c0d982e10811171139h418b91f2p9604609f0797d8ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Walt Sanders
<wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org> wrote:
[snip]
> The html is mostly done with print commands or with >> sections.  Here is
> the toping:
>
> -----------------------
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use strict;
> use CGI qw( :standard );
> use Fcntl qw( :flock );
>
> print( header() );
> print( start_html( 'ID Yourself' ) );
>
> print("<body bgcolor='#00ffff' onLoad='document.regform.name.focus();'>");
> print("<p><br><br>");
>
> etc.
> ------------------------------
>
>
> All rather simple minded, but it works fine everywhere if I don't try it on
> my Mac!  If I run something without html, like
>
>     #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>     print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
>     print "Hello, world";
>
> it works just fine.  I get just the two lines printed.

You still haven't said *how* the script that outputs HTML doesn't
work.  Does it not return what you expected?  Does it return an error?
 What is the expected output vs. the actual output?

From lara.ortiz.de.montellano at comcast.net  Mon Nov 17 14:21:27 2008
From: lara.ortiz.de.montellano at comcast.net (Lara Ortiz de Montellano)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:21:27 -0500
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8885.1226860451.29685.sanfrancisco-pm@pm.org>
References: <mailman.8885.1226860451.29685.sanfrancisco-pm@pm.org>
Message-ID: <4921EE67.8080709@comcast.net>

1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)

>Terminal won't run it of course, it just spits that code back at me.   
>But, if I try to run it in a browser, of try to preview it in an  
>editor, it still spits code back at me.  This is any program that runs  
>perfectly fine when I upload it to any one of my ISP servers.  I can  
>just download any working .cgi or .pl from one of my websites and it  
>won't run on my machine.
>  
>

To expand a bit on Darin's instructions in a Mac specific context (and 
this is going to be long and possibly something you already know)...

It sounds like you're seeing the correct, but raw HTML when you expect 
to see interpreted HTML if you run the code on the command line, and raw 
perl code if you open it in the browser?

If so, the deal is that the terminal/command line executes the Perl but 
does not render HTML.   This is correct and expected behaviour.   You 
should see the same thing if you run the script on Windows under
    Start->
        Run->
            cmd [OK]
            c:> perl c:\some\path\to\your\script.pl

Opening the perl script directly in the browser will get you the raw 
Perl code because the browser itself cannot execute the Perl code, it 
only understands the HTML (and figures anything else is plain text).

So... you need to execute the Perl by having your browser ask a web 
server to execute the script and return the (HTML) contents to the browser.

To do this:

1) Configure your web server to allow CGI scripts:

a) In Terminal, use the whoami command to see what the Mac thinks your 
user id is.

b) Under /etc/httpd/users (under 10.4) or /etc/apache2/users/ (10.5) 
create a file called username.conf where "username" is your userid name 
on the mac.

c) In the /etc/apache2/users/username.conf file, add the text:

<Directory "/Users/username/Sites/">
    AllowOverride All
</Directory>

d) Create the file /Users/username/Sites/.htaccess

set the permissions on the file:

sudo chgrp www .htaccess
chmod 750 .htaccess

and in the file, add the text:

AddHandler cgi-script .pl
Options ExecCGI

e) Under the apple menu, choose System Preferences and click on Sharing, 
then turn off (by unticking) Personal Web Sharing, then turn it back on 
(by ticking Personal Web Sharing).

2) Set your script up to be accessible to the web server

a) In Terminal, run     which perl     to see which Perl you're using, 
and make a note of the path (usually /usr/bin/perl)

b) Add a shebang line to your perl script to tell the web server how to 
execute your script, using the path  you got in 2a:

#!/usr/bin/perl

c) copy or move your file to /Users/username/Sties/scriptname.pl

d) Set the file permissions to allow world execute on the script:

chmod a+x /Users/username/Sites/scriptname.pl

3) View the file in your browser at

http://localhost/~username/scriptname.pl

Do you see what you were expecting? 

If so, you'll want to read up a bit on Apache  CGI  and you may also 
want to tweak the Apache and script file permissions to make it a little 
more secure.

-Lara O.


From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Mon Nov 17 18:30:44 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:30:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
Message-ID: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>

Lara, I surely hope you had all this in a file to grab and send?!  My  
god what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished OS.  And why  
doesn't Apple have this already configured, I'm wondering.

Gotta go now and I'm away tomorrow, but will then try to digest your  
instructions and give it a try.  I am at the point where I was about  
to start advertising for a fixer to take my machine and make it work.   
But, this is new hope.  Many, many thanks and I'll report back.  Walt.



On Monday, at , Lara Ortiz de Montellano wrote:

> 1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)

From darin_fisher at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 17 18:34:47 2008
From: darin_fisher at yahoo.com (Darin Fisher)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:34:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
References: <mailman.8885.1226860451.29685.sanfrancisco-pm@pm.org>
	<4921EE67.8080709@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <60713.22597.qm@web35306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Shoot, I forgot about adding a handler (a little too used to mod_perl I guess).

Thank you Lara for the great detail for this OS.

-Darin

 Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
- Brendan Gill




________________________________
From: Lara Ortiz de Montellano <lara.ortiz.de.montellano at comcast.net>
To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:21:27 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac

1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)

> Terminal won't run it of course, it just spits that code back at me.   But, if I try to run it in a browser, of try to preview it in an  editor, it still spits code back at me.  This is any program that runs  perfectly fine when I upload it to any one of my ISP servers.  I can  just download any working .cgi or .pl from one of my websites and it  won't run on my machine.
>  

To expand a bit on Darin's instructions in a Mac specific context (and this is going to be long and possibly something you already know)...

It sounds like you're seeing the correct, but raw HTML when you expect to see interpreted HTML if you run the code on the command line, and raw perl code if you open it in the browser?

If so, the deal is that the terminal/command line executes the Perl but does not render HTML.   This is correct and expected behaviour.   You should see the same thing if you run the script on Windows under
   Start->
       Run->
           cmd [OK]
           c:> perl c:\some\path\to\your\script.pl

Opening the perl script directly in the browser will get you the raw Perl code because the browser itself cannot execute the Perl code, it only understands the HTML (and figures anything else is plain text).

So... you need to execute the Perl by having your browser ask a web server to execute the script and return the (HTML) contents to the browser.

To do this:

1) Configure your web server to allow CGI scripts:

a) In Terminal, use the whoami command to see what the Mac thinks your user id is.

b) Under /etc/httpd/users (under 10.4) or /etc/apache2/users/ (10.5) create a file called username.conf where "username" is your userid name on the mac.

c) In the /etc/apache2/users/username.conf file, add the text:

<Directory "/Users/username/Sites/">
   AllowOverride All
</Directory>

d) Create the file /Users/username/Sites/.htaccess

set the permissions on the file:

sudo chgrp www .htaccess
chmod 750 .htaccess

and in the file, add the text:

AddHandler cgi-script .pl
Options ExecCGI

e) Under the apple menu, choose System Preferences and click on Sharing, then turn off (by unticking) Personal Web Sharing, then turn it back on (by ticking Personal Web Sharing).

2) Set your script up to be accessible to the web server

a) In Terminal, run     which perl     to see which Perl you're using, and make a note of the path (usually /usr/bin/perl)

b) Add a shebang line to your perl script to tell the web server how to execute your script, using the path  you got in 2a:

#!/usr/bin/perl

c) copy or move your file to /Users/username/Sties/scriptname.pl

d) Set the file permissions to allow world execute on the script:

chmod a+x /Users/username/Sites/scriptname.pl

3) View the file in your browser at

http://localhost/~username/scriptname.pl

Do you see what you were expecting? 
If so, you'll want to read up a bit on Apache  CGI  and you may also want to tweak the Apache and script file permissions to make it a little more secure.

-Lara O.

_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081117/e2daf62e/attachment.html>

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Mon Nov 17 22:08:09 2008
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:08:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
Message-ID: <6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>

Walt,

Maybe I'm just cranky today or maybe I'm too partisan, but I feel I  
have to reply to "what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished  
OS".

Mac OS X does exactly what every other OS does when given the input  
and output you've shown: if you run a perl script on the command-line,  
and it uses print statements, it prints the output in that same  
window. Whether the output happens to be text, HTML, or binary data  
doesn't matter at all. Print is print.

It sounds to me like on Windows you were running perl not from the  
command-line but from a fancy IDE which would recognize that the  
output was HTML and read it for you, copy it to a temporary file, and  
open that file in your browser. This behavior sounds great, but it's  
unrelated to the operating system (and perl itself, for that matter).  
It's entirely a function of whatever IDE you were using that just  
happened to run on Windows.

To get the same behavior on OS X (or any other unix variant), you can  
do what Alex Feinberg suggested seven days ago:
	perl myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html

which tells perl to run your script (so instead of "myscript.pl" you'd  
use the path to your CGI script), take the output and write it to a  
file instead of to the screen, and then open that file. (The open  
command sees the extension ".html" and knows to open the file in your  
default browser.) If this doesn't work, there are only a couple of  
reasons:

1. "perl" isn't in your path. Use wherever you installed perl instead.  
The built-in version is /usr/bin/perl.

2. Your script's output didn't properly parse as HTML. That can cause  
a blank page to appear in the browser. In this case, you can go read  
the temp file directly to see what happened or use "View Source" on  
the blank browser page.

If you are using BBEdit or TextMate or Eclipse or another heavy-duty  
OS X text editor it should be easy to set this up as a menu option  
within the editor.

Setting up apache to use something more than the default configuration  
is never an easy task, even on Windows. It's "messy" like tuning a  
race car is messy -- it's a really complicated engine because there's  
more power under the hood than you could possibly use on the streets.  
But again, that's a "feature" of apache, not of the OS.

So, it seems to me that what you are really looking for is an IDE that  
has support for debugging CGI scripts internally. One that just  
happens to run on Mac OS X.

I haven't used it personally, but I believe that this is available in  
ActiveState's Komodo IDE, which runs on Windows, Mac OS X, or Linux.  
You can find out more and download a demo from their website:
	http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml

You should also check to see if the IDE you currently use on Windows  
offers a Mac version. Some do.


Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your new Mac! I've been  
programming perl on OS X for years now and have found it to be a very  
good developer platform. The command-line shell takes some getting  
used to if you've only used Windows's limited command shell, but it's  
a great tool once you understand it.

-- Mike Friedman

PS - On a non-perl note, I highly recommend Take Control eBooks if you  
want to learn more about your Mac.
	http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/catalog.html

They don't have one about the unix underpinnings or using the command- 
line, so you may also want to check out one of the "Unix on Mac OS X"  
books such as O'Reilly's _Learning Unix for Mac OS X Tiger_. There are  
others, and that one's a little outdated, but it's still almost  
entirely relevant for Leopard.


On Nov 17, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:

> Lara, I surely hope you had all this in a file to grab and send?!   
> My god what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished OS.  And  
> why doesn't Apple have this already configured, I'm wondering.
>
> Gotta go now and I'm away tomorrow, but will then try to digest your  
> instructions and give it a try.  I am at the point where I was about  
> to start advertising for a fixer to take my machine and make it  
> work.  But, this is new hope.  Many, many thanks and I'll report  
> back.  Walt.
>
>
>
> On Monday, at , Lara Ortiz de Montellano wrote:
>
>> 1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From darin_fisher at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 17 22:35:36 2008
From: darin_fisher at yahoo.com (Darin Fisher)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:35:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a major
	diversion)
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sorry Mike but it's a lot more simple than that!

This is a very experienced list and most of us avoid getting into "religious" discussions.
But, since I stuck my neck out, I will stay in it...

The original question is from an obvious "newbie" (and seemingly a pretty smart one from I can tell).
A lot of us on this specific list have multiple disciplines and the only reason I spoke when i did was when i couldn't stand it anymore.
But your argument is just too inviting to old-school smack.

And given that, try to remember when you were a newbie, we all were at one point!

(to everyone else, sorry for the soapbox!) 

-Darin


 Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
- Brendan Gill




________________________________
From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
To: Walt Sanders <wsanders at cruzio.com>; San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:08:09 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac

Walt,

Maybe I'm just cranky today or maybe I'm too partisan, but I feel I have to reply to "what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished OS".

Mac OS X does exactly what every other OS does when given the input and output you've shown: if you run a perl script on the command-line, and it uses print statements, it prints the output in that same window. Whether the output happens to be text, HTML, or binary data doesn't matter at all. Print is print.

It sounds to me like on Windows you were running perl not from the command-line but from a fancy IDE which would recognize that the output was HTML and read it for you, copy it to a temporary file, and open that file in your browser. This behavior sounds great, but it's unrelated to the operating system (and perl itself, for that matter). It's entirely a function of whatever IDE you were using that just happened to run on Windows.

To get the same behavior on OS X (or any other unix variant), you can do what Alex Feinberg suggested seven days ago:
    perl myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html

which tells perl to run your script (so instead of "myscript.pl" you'd use the path to your CGI script), take the output and write it to a file instead of to the screen, and then open that file. (The open command sees the extension ".html" and knows to open the file in your default browser.) If this doesn't work, there are only a couple of reasons:

1. "perl" isn't in your path. Use wherever you installed perl instead. The built-in version is /usr/bin/perl.

2. Your script's output didn't properly parse as HTML. That can cause a blank page to appear in the browser. In this case, you can go read the temp file directly to see what happened or use "View Source" on the blank browser page.

If you are using BBEdit or TextMate or Eclipse or another heavy-duty OS X text editor it should be easy to set this up as a menu option within the editor.

Setting up apache to use something more than the default configuration is never an easy task, even on Windows. It's "messy" like tuning a race car is messy -- it's a really complicated engine because there's more power under the hood than you could possibly use on the streets. But again, that's a "feature" of apache, not of the OS.

So, it seems to me that what you are really looking for is an IDE that has support for debugging CGI scripts internally. One that just happens to run on Mac OS X.

I haven't used it personally, but I believe that this is available in ActiveState's Komodo IDE, which runs on Windows, Mac OS X, or Linux. You can find out more and download a demo from their website:
    http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml

You should also check to see if the IDE you currently use on Windows offers a Mac version. Some do.


Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your new Mac! I've been programming perl on OS X for years now and have found it to be a very good developer platform. The command-line shell takes some getting used to if you've only used Windows's limited command shell, but it's a great tool once you understand it.

-- Mike Friedman

PS - On a non-perl note, I highly recommend Take Control eBooks if you want to learn more about your Mac.
    http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/catalog.html

They don't have one about the unix underpinnings or using the command-line, so you may also want to check out one of the "Unix on Mac OS X" books such as O'Reilly's _Learning Unix for Mac OS X Tiger_. There are others, and that one's a little outdated, but it's still almost entirely relevant for Leopard.


On Nov 17, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:

> Lara, I surely hope you had all this in a file to grab and send?!  My god what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished OS.  And why doesn't Apple have this already configured, I'm wondering.
> 
> Gotta go now and I'm away tomorrow, but will then try to digest your instructions and give it a try.  I am at the point where I was about to start advertising for a fixer to take my machine and make it work.  But, this is new hope.  Many, many thanks and I'll report back.  Walt.
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, at , Lara Ortiz de Montellano wrote:
> 
>> 1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081117/8272d925/attachment-0001.html>

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Mon Nov 17 22:51:32 2008
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:51:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a major
	diversion)
In-Reply-To: <366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>

I meant no offense. I recognize he's a newbie to the Mac, but not to  
perl, and tried to offer only constructive advice. It's just the first  
line that is snarky and I probably should've deleted.

Apologies, to Walt and the list, if I was out of line. I wasn't  
intending a smack-down; just to point out that perhaps he's asking the  
wrong question.

-- Mike

On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Darin Fisher wrote:

> Sorry Mike but it's a lot more simple than that!
>
> This is a very experienced list and most of us avoid getting into  
> "religious" discussions.
> But, since I stuck my neck out, I will stay in it...
>
> The original question is from an obvious "newbie" (and seemingly a  
> pretty smart one from I can tell).
> A lot of us on this specific list have multiple disciplines and the  
> only reason I spoke when i did was when i couldn't stand it anymore.
> But your argument is just too inviting to old-school smack.
>
> And given that, try to remember when you were a newbie, we all were  
> at one point!
>
> (to everyone else, sorry for the soapbox!)
>
> -Darin
>
>
> Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is  
> serious.
> - Brendan Gill
>
>
> From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> To: Walt Sanders <wsanders at cruzio.com>; San Francisco Perl Mongers  
> User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:08:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
>
> Walt,
>
> Maybe I'm just cranky today or maybe I'm too partisan, but I feel I  
> have to reply to "what a mess to go through for a supposedly  
> polished OS".
>
> Mac OS X does exactly what every other OS does when given the input  
> and output you've shown: if you run a perl script on the command- 
> line, and it uses print statements, it prints the output in that  
> same window. Whether the output happens to be text, HTML, or binary  
> data doesn't matter at all. Print is print.
>
> It sounds to me like on Windows you were running perl not from the  
> command-line but from a fancy IDE which would recognize that the  
> output was HTML and read it for you, copy it to a temporary file,  
> and open that file in your browser. This behavior sounds great, but  
> it's unrelated to the operating system (and perl itself, for that  
> matter). It's entirely a function of whatever IDE you were using  
> that just happened to run on Windows.
>
> To get the same behavior on OS X (or any other unix variant), you  
> can do what Alex Feinberg suggested seven days ago:
>     perl myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
>
> which tells perl to run your script (so instead of "myscript.pl"  
> you'd use the path to your CGI script), take the output and write it  
> to a file instead of to the screen, and then open that file. (The  
> open command sees the extension ".html" and knows to open the file  
> in your default browser.) If this doesn't work, there are only a  
> couple of reasons:
>
> 1. "perl" isn't in your path. Use wherever you installed perl  
> instead. The built-in version is /usr/bin/perl.
>
> 2. Your script's output didn't properly parse as HTML. That can  
> cause a blank page to appear in the browser. In this case, you can  
> go read the temp file directly to see what happened or use "View  
> Source" on the blank browser page.
>
> If you are using BBEdit or TextMate or Eclipse or another heavy-duty  
> OS X text editor it should be easy to set this up as a menu option  
> within the editor.
>
> Setting up apache to use something more than the default  
> configuration is never an easy task, even on Windows. It's "messy"  
> like tuning a race car is messy -- it's a really complicated engine  
> because there's more power under the hood than you could possibly  
> use on the streets. But again, that's a "feature" of apache, not of  
> the OS.
>
> So, it seems to me that what you are really looking for is an IDE  
> that has support for debugging CGI scripts internally. One that just  
> happens to run on Mac OS X.
>
> I haven't used it personally, but I believe that this is available  
> in ActiveState's Komodo IDE, which runs on Windows, Mac OS X, or  
> Linux. You can find out more and download a demo from their website:
>     http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml
>
> You should also check to see if the IDE you currently use on Windows  
> offers a Mac version. Some do.
>
>
> Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your new Mac! I've been  
> programming perl on OS X for years now and have found it to be a  
> very good developer platform. The command-line shell takes some  
> getting used to if you've only used Windows's limited command shell,  
> but it's a great tool once you understand it.
>
> -- Mike Friedman
>
> PS - On a non-perl note, I highly recommend Take Control eBooks if  
> you want to learn more about your Mac.
>     http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/catalog.html
>
> They don't have one about the unix underpinnings or using the  
> command-line, so you may also want to check out one of the "Unix on  
> Mac OS X" books such as O'Reilly's _Learning Unix for Mac OS X  
> Tiger_. There are others, and that one's a little outdated, but it's  
> still almost entirely relevant for Leopard.
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:
>
> > Lara, I surely hope you had all this in a file to grab and send?!   
> My god what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished OS.  And  
> why doesn't Apple have this already configured, I'm wondering.
> >
> > Gotta go now and I'm away tomorrow, but will then try to digest  
> your instructions and give it a try.  I am at the point where I was  
> about to start advertising for a fixer to take my machine and make  
> it work.  But, this is new hope.  Many, many thanks and I'll report  
> back.  Walt.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Monday, at , Lara Ortiz de Montellano wrote:
> >
> >> 1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Friedman                    HighWire Press
> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> FAX:  270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From darin_fisher at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 17 23:08:12 2008
From: darin_fisher at yahoo.com (Darin Fisher)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a major
	diversion)
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks Mike!

I didn't want to get into a "PC" discussion, so...forget it!

Back to the original discussion.

None the less, this is a newbie discussion and he has a very valid question (even though it actually has nothing to do with Perl :) ).


This has everything to do with OS configuration and (again, thank you Lara for a great detailed description).
(and i'm actually kind of embarrassed that i don't know this one :( )

So..., if you still haven't received your answer.  Drop one of us an email and I'm sure we can fix (figure out) the problem (solution) for you!

-Darin

 
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
- Brendan Gill




________________________________
From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:51:32 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a major diversion)

I meant no offense. I recognize he's a newbie to the Mac, but not to perl, and tried to offer only constructive advice. It's just the first line that is snarky and I probably should've deleted.

Apologies, to Walt and the list, if I was out of line. I wasn't intending a smack-down; just to point out that perhaps he's asking the wrong question.

-- Mike

On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Darin Fisher wrote:

> Sorry Mike but it's a lot more simple than that!
> 
> This is a very experienced list and most of us avoid getting into "religious" discussions.
> But, since I stuck my neck out, I will stay in it...
> 
> The original question is from an obvious "newbie" (and seemingly a pretty smart one from I can tell).
> A lot of us on this specific list have multiple disciplines and the only reason I spoke when i did was when i couldn't stand it anymore.
> But your argument is just too inviting to old-school smack.
> 
> And given that, try to remember when you were a newbie, we all were at one point!
> 
> (to everyone else, sorry for the soapbox!)
> 
> -Darin
> 
> 
> Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
> - Brendan Gill
> 
> 
> From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> To: Walt Sanders <wsanders at cruzio.com>; San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:08:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
> 
> Walt,
> 
> Maybe I'm just cranky today or maybe I'm too partisan, but I feel I have to reply to "what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished OS".
> 
> Mac OS X does exactly what every other OS does when given the input and output you've shown: if you run a perl script on the command-line, and it uses print statements, it prints the output in that same window. Whether the output happens to be text, HTML, or binary data doesn't matter at all. Print is print.
> 
> It sounds to me like on Windows you were running perl not from the command-line but from a fancy IDE which would recognize that the output was HTML and read it for you, copy it to a temporary file, and open that file in your browser. This behavior sounds great, but it's unrelated to the operating system (and perl itself, for that matter). It's entirely a function of whatever IDE you were using that just happened to run on Windows.
> 
> To get the same behavior on OS X (or any other unix variant), you can do what Alex Feinberg suggested seven days ago:
>     perl myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
> 
> which tells perl to run your script (so instead of "myscript.pl" you'd use the path to your CGI script), take the output and write it to a file instead of to the screen, and then open that file. (The open command sees the extension ".html" and knows to open the file in your default browser.) If this doesn't work, there are only a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. "perl" isn't in your path. Use wherever you installed perl instead. The built-in version is /usr/bin/perl.
> 
> 2. Your script's output didn't properly parse as HTML. That can cause a blank page to appear in the browser. In this case, you can go read the temp file directly to see what happened or use "View Source" on the blank browser page.
> 
> If you are using BBEdit or TextMate or Eclipse or another heavy-duty OS X text editor it should be easy to set this up as a menu option within the editor.
> 
> Setting up apache to use something more than the default configuration is never an easy task, even on Windows. It's "messy" like tuning a race car is messy -- it's a really complicated engine because there's more power under the hood than you could possibly use on the streets. But again, that's a "feature" of apache, not of the OS.
> 
> So, it seems to me that what you are really looking for is an IDE that has support for debugging CGI scripts internally. One that just happens to run on Mac OS X.
> 
> I haven't used it personally, but I believe that this is available in ActiveState's Komodo IDE, which runs on Windows, Mac OS X, or Linux. You can find out more and download a demo from their website:
>    http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml
> 
> You should also check to see if the IDE you currently use on Windows offers a Mac version. Some do.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your new Mac! I've been programming perl on OS X for years now and have found it to be a very good developer platform. The command-line shell takes some getting used to if you've only used Windows's limited command shell, but it's a great tool once you understand it.
> 
> -- Mike Friedman
> 
> PS - On a non-perl note, I highly recommend Take Control eBooks if you want to learn more about your Mac.
>    http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/catalog.html
> 
> They don't have one about the unix underpinnings or using the command-line, so you may also want to check out one of the "Unix on Mac OS X" books such as O'Reilly's _Learning Unix for Mac OS X Tiger_. There are others, and that one's a little outdated, but it's still almost entirely relevant for Leopard.
> 
> 
> On Nov 17, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:
> 
> > Lara, I surely hope you had all this in a file to grab and send?!  My god what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished OS.  And why doesn't Apple have this already configured, I'm wondering.
> >
> > Gotta go now and I'm away tomorrow, but will then try to digest your instructions and give it a try.  I am at the point where I was about to start advertising for a fixer to take my machine and make it work.  But, this is new hope.  Many, many thanks and I'll report back.  Walt.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Monday, at , Lara Ortiz de Montellano wrote:
> >
> >> 1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Friedman                    HighWire Press
> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> FAX:  270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081117/1b064c0e/attachment-0001.html>

From biztos at mac.com  Tue Nov 18 02:37:58 2008
From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:37:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a
	major	diversion)
In-Reply-To: <412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>

A few more-or-less random notes on this topic from someone who's done  
Perl on Mac, Linux, and Windows for many years now; advice $FREE, take  
or leave it as you please.

1) Mac OS X is Unix.

It's not Linux, it's not a Unix derivative, it's real Unix.  We often  
forget this because the Mac Story is so much about UI spit, polish,  
and ease of use.  But under the hood it's fully certified Unix, and  
much of the culture of writing server software on a Mac is influenced  
by that.

2) Yes, there are (currently) no proper all-in-one IDE's for Perl on  
OS X.

If you really can't live without a complete Visual Studio style IDE  
then you should just run a VM on your Mac.  However, you could also  
look at this as an opportunity:  a lot of people create a lot of  
awesome Perl on Macs and are really happy about it; most of these  
people have done at least some Perl development on Windows and like it  
on Mac better; and there are, not coincidentally, a lot of Mac tools  
that cater to this mentality.  Maybe it's collective insanity, or  
maybe there's something behind it.

Or you can run Eclipse or Komodo, both of which work fine on a Mac, if  
that's your thing.  It's not mine, so I don't have any useful advice  
on integration except to say they don't feel "Mac-like" (nor do they  
try).

http://www.eclipse.org/

http://www.epic-ide.org/

http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml

(Yes, I've used both; no offense but it's just not how I like to work,  
I will wear myself out making good unit tests but I basically never  
use the debugger.)

3) You may wish to run a VM anyway.

My personal tool chain usually includes a VM running some flavor of  
Linux, sharing a folder with OS X, and very often another VM running  
Windows for browser testing.  This is a bit of a pain to set up (on  
any host OS) but in the end it can be very efficient, at least if your  
software is going to be deployed on Linux or used by Windows users.

You could apply the same logic to other parts of your tool chain if  
necessary.  Both VMWare Fusion and Parallels Desktop are wonderful,  
full-featured virtualization solutions for Intel Macs.

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/

http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/

4) There are some interesting IDE type things for Mac after all.

If you are happier in an IDE than in a shell, check out Coda.

http://www.panic.com/coda/

I don't think it's used by Perl developers much, but it has a lot of  
potential.  In my experience most Perl coders working on Macs actually  
don't want a fully-integrated IDE; but if that's what you really want,  
and you're going to spend a bunch of time on the effort anyway, I bet  
you could get locally famous by helping the Panic folks make Coda more  
Perl-friendly.

5) AFAIK IMHO FWIW TextMate is the s**t, YMMV.

Being a vim user who's never liked EmacsOS, I'm not afraid of  
religious wars. :-)

So: TextMate is my favorite text editor, ever.  The one thing I hate  
about it is the complete lack of acceptable printing support.  What I  
love about it is everything else, especially the comprehensive shell  
integration that even lets me get around the printing problem (in a  
shockingly geeky way, but whatever).

I'll admit much of this love is just about a UI paradigm that feels  
"right" to me, but it's also a very happy thing for everyone if your  
trigger finger twitches above the perltidy macro you set up; and  
pretty much anything you can do with a Unix shell, including "preview  
as a CGI in my favorite web browser," is just a hotkey away once you  
get used to the "bundle" concept.  Web browsing a la Safari is tightly  
integrated with OS X, and TextMate will happily show program output in  
a browser.

If you want a GUI text editor and a flexible tool chain and are happy  
in a Unix shell you really should check it out:

http://macromates.com/

http://biztos.blogspot.com/2008/06/printing-with-textmate-vim-and-friends.html

However, bear in mind that the TextMate world is very much geared  
towards do-it-yourself types.... so there are tons of freebies and a  
lot of free support, but we're all trying to build the "perfect  
editing environment for ME ME ME ME."

6) Apache isn't your only option.

If you're writing complex mod_perl systems then it probably is, but if  
you're just doing CGI then I recommend lighttpd, which is very, um,  
light, and easy to configure.  I use this for developing small, CGI- 
based web sites on my Macs.

http://www.lighttpd.net/

I just checked my config file and it's 28 lines plus comments for a  
fully-functioning CGI-based stack running locally.

There are others of course but I really think this one hits the sweet  
spot for offline web development. There's more than one way to do it.  
(TM)

7) The new is always unfamiliar; don't blame the new.

I used Windows for a long, long time, and was very happy with my tool  
chain there.  I'm happier now on Macs, and every once in a while I  
have to jump back to Windows, and I find it maddening.

I often start thinking "why couldn't they just...." -- and then I  
remember that, yes, once you get used to it and set it up right you  
can do just about anything you need in Windows just like you can in a  
Mac, but it's no longer familiar to me.

I'm a happy Mac partisan and just like the next guy I can list reasons  
why "my platform" is better than "some other platform" -- but once you  
get into the specifics, at least for software development it's  
objectively the case that smart people happily make great software on  
a bunch of different platforms.

The one you don't understand at the moment will always feel vaguely  
wrong, until you get used to it and it doesn't.  But then some other  
platform will feel vaguely wrong and you will be tempted to jump to  
the exact same (wrong) conclusion about that one.

8) $LARA ++;

I second/third that sentiment.  Awesome explanation!

Lara, if you don't already teach engineering courses you should  
seriously consider it.  If you do, I want to hire your students some  
day. :-)


[ the palaver is finished ]

-- frosty


On Nov 17, 2008, at 11:08 PM, Darin Fisher wrote:

> Thanks Mike!
>
> I didn't want to get into a "PC" discussion, so...forget it!
>
> Back to the original discussion.
>
> None the less, this is a newbie discussion and he has a very valid  
> question (even though it actually has nothing to do with Perl :) ).
>
> This has everything to do with OS configuration and (again, thank  
> you Lara for a great detailed description).
> (and i'm actually kind of embarrassed that i don't know this one :( )
>
> So..., if you still haven't received your answer.  Drop one of us an  
> email and I'm sure we can fix (figure out) the problem (solution)  
> for you!
>
> -Darin
>
>
> Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is  
> serious.
> - Brendan Gill
>
>
> From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:51:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a major  
> diversion)
>
> I meant no offense. I recognize he's a newbie to the Mac, but not to  
> perl, and tried to offer only constructive advice. It's just the  
> first line that is snarky and I probably should've deleted.
>
> Apologies, to Walt and the list, if I was out of line. I wasn't  
> intending a smack-down; just to point out that perhaps he's asking  
> the wrong question.
>
> -- Mike
>
> On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Darin Fisher wrote:
>
> > Sorry Mike but it's a lot more simple than that!
> >
> > This is a very experienced list and most of us avoid getting into  
> "religious" discussions.
> > But, since I stuck my neck out, I will stay in it...
> >
> > The original question is from an obvious "newbie" (and seemingly a  
> pretty smart one from I can tell).
> > A lot of us on this specific list have multiple disciplines and  
> the only reason I spoke when i did was when i couldn't stand it  
> anymore.
> > But your argument is just too inviting to old-school smack.
> >
> > And given that, try to remember when you were a newbie, we all  
> were at one point!
> >
> > (to everyone else, sorry for the soapbox!)
> >
> > -Darin
> >
> >
> > Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is  
> serious.
> > - Brendan Gill
> >
> >
> > From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> > To: Walt Sanders <wsanders at cruzio.com>; San Francisco Perl Mongers  
> User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:08:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
> >
> > Walt,
> >
> > Maybe I'm just cranky today or maybe I'm too partisan, but I feel  
> I have to reply to "what a mess to go through for a supposedly  
> polished OS".
> >
> > Mac OS X does exactly what every other OS does when given the  
> input and output you've shown: if you run a perl script on the  
> command-line, and it uses print statements, it prints the output in  
> that same window. Whether the output happens to be text, HTML, or  
> binary data doesn't matter at all. Print is print.
> >
> > It sounds to me like on Windows you were running perl not from the  
> command-line but from a fancy IDE which would recognize that the  
> output was HTML and read it for you, copy it to a temporary file,  
> and open that file in your browser. This behavior sounds great, but  
> it's unrelated to the operating system (and perl itself, for that  
> matter). It's entirely a function of whatever IDE you were using  
> that just happened to run on Windows.
> >
> > To get the same behavior on OS X (or any other unix variant), you  
> can do what Alex Feinberg suggested seven days ago:
> >    perl myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
> >
> > which tells perl to run your script (so instead of "myscript.pl"  
> you'd use the path to your CGI script), take the output and write it  
> to a file instead of to the screen, and then open that file. (The  
> open command sees the extension ".html" and knows to open the file  
> in your default browser.) If this doesn't work, there are only a  
> couple of reasons:
> >
> > 1. "perl" isn't in your path. Use wherever you installed perl  
> instead. The built-in version is /usr/bin/perl.
> >
> > 2. Your script's output didn't properly parse as HTML. That can  
> cause a blank page to appear in the browser. In this case, you can  
> go read the temp file directly to see what happened or use "View  
> Source" on the blank browser page.
> >
> > If you are using BBEdit or TextMate or Eclipse or another heavy- 
> duty OS X text editor it should be easy to set this up as a menu  
> option within the editor.
> >
> > Setting up apache to use something more than the default  
> configuration is never an easy task, even on Windows. It's "messy"  
> like tuning a race car is messy -- it's a really complicated engine  
> because there's more power under the hood than you could possibly  
> use on the streets. But again, that's a "feature" of apache, not of  
> the OS.
> >
> > So, it seems to me that what you are really looking for is an IDE  
> that has support for debugging CGI scripts internally. One that just  
> happens to run on Mac OS X.
> >
> > I haven't used it personally, but I believe that this is available  
> in ActiveState's Komodo IDE, which runs on Windows, Mac OS X, or  
> Linux. You can find out more and download a demo from their website:
> >    http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml
> >
> > You should also check to see if the IDE you currently use on  
> Windows offers a Mac version. Some do.
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your new Mac! I've been  
> programming perl on OS X for years now and have found it to be a  
> very good developer platform. The command-line shell takes some  
> getting used to if you've only used Windows's limited command shell,  
> but it's a great tool once you understand it.
> >
> > -- Mike Friedman
> >
> > PS - On a non-perl note, I highly recommend Take Control eBooks if  
> you want to learn more about your Mac.
> >    http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/catalog.html
> >
> > They don't have one about the unix underpinnings or using the  
> command-line, so you may also want to check out one of the "Unix on  
> Mac OS X" books such as O'Reilly's _Learning Unix for Mac OS X  
> Tiger_. There are others, and that one's a little outdated, but it's  
> still almost entirely relevant for Leopard.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 17, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:
> >
> > > Lara, I surely hope you had all this in a file to grab and  
> send?!  My god what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished  
> OS.  And why doesn't Apple have this already configured, I'm  
> wondering.
> > >
> > > Gotta go now and I'm away tomorrow, but will then try to digest  
> your instructions and give it a try.  I am at the point where I was  
> about to start advertising for a fixer to take my machine and make  
> it work.  But, this is new hope.  Many, many thanks and I'll report  
> back.  Walt.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Monday, at , Lara Ortiz de Montellano wrote:
> > >
> > >> 1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >
> >  
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Michael Friedman                    HighWire Press
> > Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> > FAX:  270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> >  
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Friedman                    HighWire Press
> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> FAX:  270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081118/e30d2f91/attachment-0001.html>

From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Tue Nov 18 06:46:46 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:46:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl on a Mac
Message-ID: <892DFBFF-20FF-40E0-B8C5-0B736D8CAADE@pacificwebdesign.org>

Getting ready to leave town for the day, but I'm a little embarrassed  
by all the flurry on my question.  I hope to spend much of tomorrow  
playing with this, but thanks to everyone for all the input.

Just a quick thought as to where I've been:  Used Win XP for several  
years (with no tweaking!), freely running .pl or .cgi on any browser,  
and on 3 or 4 different editors that displayed the pages perfectly  
(even Dreamweaver, which I never use but keep on my machine for some  
reason).  It was just a shock to find that when I switched to Mac,  
nothing would run perl html producing programs.

Been programming for many years, but don't know beans about tweaking  
OSs of any type.  So, I will try to understand some of this tomorrow.   
Thanks again, Walt.

From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Wed Nov 19 14:56:29 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:56:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a
	major	diversion)
In-Reply-To: <2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>

I agree 100% with you about TextMate being an excellent way to go,  
PROVIDED the Web Preview feature would interpret perl on my machine.   
All I get is the interpreted html, with all perl displayed as text.

That is exactly my problem.  Lara proved detailed instructions to get  
perl interpreted in a browser environment, but it hasn't worked.   
Terminal will successfully interpret simple perl text output, but I  
can find nothing that will interpret a perl produced html output on my  
Mac machine!

If only it were not so ...  Walt.

Oh, and many thanks again for the helpful thoughts.   Maybe something  
will eventually click.




On Tuesday, at , Kevin Frost wrote:

> A few more-or-less random notes on this topic from someone who's  
> done Perl on Mac, Linux, and Windows for many years now; advice  
> $FREE, take or leave it as you please.
>
> 1) Mac OS X is Unix.
>
> It's not Linux, it's not a Unix derivative, it's real Unix.  We  
> often forget this because the Mac Story is so much about UI spit,  
> polish, and ease of use.  But under the hood it's fully certified  
> Unix, and much of the culture of writing server software on a Mac is  
> influenced by that.
>
> 2) Yes, there are (currently) no proper all-in-one IDE's for Perl on  
> OS X.
>
> If you really can't live without a complete Visual Studio style IDE  
> then you should just run a VM on your Mac.  However, you could also  
> look at this as an opportunity:  a lot of people create a lot of  
> awesome Perl on Macs and are really happy about it; most of these  
> people have done at least some Perl development on Windows and like  
> it on Mac better; and there are, not coincidentally, a lot of Mac  
> tools that cater to this mentality.  Maybe it's collective insanity,  
> or maybe there's something behind it.
>
> Or you can run Eclipse or Komodo, both of which work fine on a Mac,  
> if that's your thing.  It's not mine, so I don't have any useful  
> advice on integration except to say they don't feel "Mac-like" (nor  
> do they try).
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/
>
> http://www.epic-ide.org/
>
> http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml
>
> (Yes, I've used both; no offense but it's just not how I like to  
> work, I will wear myself out making good unit tests but I basically  
> never use the debugger.)
>
> 3) You may wish to run a VM anyway.
>
> My personal tool chain usually includes a VM running some flavor of  
> Linux, sharing a folder with OS X, and very often another VM running  
> Windows for browser testing.  This is a bit of a pain to set up (on  
> any host OS) but in the end it can be very efficient, at least if  
> your software is going to be deployed on Linux or used by Windows  
> users.
>
> You could apply the same logic to other parts of your tool chain if  
> necessary.  Both VMWare Fusion and Parallels Desktop are wonderful,  
> full-featured virtualization solutions for Intel Macs.
>
> http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/
>
> http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/
>
> 4) There are some interesting IDE type things for Mac after all.
>
> If you are happier in an IDE than in a shell, check out Coda.
>
> http://www.panic.com/coda/
>
> I don't think it's used by Perl developers much, but it has a lot of  
> potential.  In my experience most Perl coders working on Macs  
> actually don't want a fully-integrated IDE; but if that's what you  
> really want, and you're going to spend a bunch of time on the effort  
> anyway, I bet you could get locally famous by helping the Panic  
> folks make Coda more Perl-friendly.
>
> 5) AFAIK IMHO FWIW TextMate is the s**t, YMMV.
>
> Being a vim user who's never liked EmacsOS, I'm not afraid of  
> religious wars. :-)
>
> So: TextMate is my favorite text editor, ever.  The one thing I hate  
> about it is the complete lack of acceptable printing support.  What  
> I love about it is everything else, especially the comprehensive  
> shell integration that even lets me get around the printing problem  
> (in a shockingly geeky way, but whatever).
>
> I'll admit much of this love is just about a UI paradigm that feels  
> "right" to me, but it's also a very happy thing for everyone if your  
> trigger finger twitches above the perltidy macro you set up; and  
> pretty much anything you can do with a Unix shell, including  
> "preview as a CGI in my favorite web browser," is just a hotkey away  
> once you get used to the "bundle" concept.  Web browsing a la Safari  
> is tightly integrated with OS X, and TextMate will happily show  
> program output in a browser.
>
> If you want a GUI text editor and a flexible tool chain and are  
> happy in a Unix shell you really should check it out:
>
> http://macromates.com/
>
> http://biztos.blogspot.com/2008/06/printing-with-textmate-vim-and-friends.html
>
> However, bear in mind that the TextMate world is very much geared  
> towards do-it-yourself types.... so there are tons of freebies and a  
> lot of free support, but we're all trying to build the "perfect  
> editing environment for ME ME ME ME."
>
> 6) Apache isn't your only option.
>
> If you're writing complex mod_perl systems then it probably is, but  
> if you're just doing CGI then I recommend lighttpd, which is very,  
> um, light, and easy to configure.  I use this for developing small,  
> CGI-based web sites on my Macs.
>
> http://www.lighttpd.net/
>
> I just checked my config file and it's 28 lines plus comments for a  
> fully-functioning CGI-based stack running locally.
>
> There are others of course but I really think this one hits the  
> sweet spot for offline web development. There's more than one way to  
> do it. (TM)
>
> 7) The new is always unfamiliar; don't blame the new.
>
> I used Windows for a long, long time, and was very happy with my  
> tool chain there.  I'm happier now on Macs, and every once in a  
> while I have to jump back to Windows, and I find it maddening.
>
> I often start thinking "why couldn't they just...." -- and then I  
> remember that, yes, once you get used to it and set it up right you  
> can do just about anything you need in Windows just like you can in  
> a Mac, but it's no longer familiar to me.
>
> I'm a happy Mac partisan and just like the next guy I can list  
> reasons why "my platform" is better than "some other platform" --  
> but once you get into the specifics, at least for software  
> development it's objectively the case that smart people happily make  
> great software on a bunch of different platforms.
>
> The one you don't understand at the moment will always feel vaguely  
> wrong, until you get used to it and it doesn't.  But then some other  
> platform will feel vaguely wrong and you will be tempted to jump to  
> the exact same (wrong) conclusion about that one.
>
> 8) $LARA ++;
>
> I second/third that sentiment.  Awesome explanation!
>
> Lara, if you don't already teach engineering courses you should  
> seriously consider it.  If you do, I want to hire your students some  
> day. :-)
>
>
> [ the palaver is finished ]
>
> -- frosty
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2008, at 11:08 PM, Darin Fisher wrote:
>
>> Thanks Mike!
>>
>> I didn't want to get into a "PC" discussion, so...forget it!
>>
>> Back to the original discussion.
>>
>> None the less, this is a newbie discussion and he has a very valid  
>> question (even though it actually has nothing to do with Perl :) ).
>>
>> This has everything to do with OS configuration and (again, thank  
>> you Lara for a great detailed description).
>> (and i'm actually kind of embarrassed that i don't know this one :( )
>>
>> So..., if you still haven't received your answer.  Drop one of us  
>> an email and I'm sure we can fix (figure out) the problem  
>> (solution) for you!
>>
>> -Darin
>>
>>
>> Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is  
>> serious.
>> - Brendan Gill
>>
>>
>> From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
>> To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:51:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac (this is going to take a major  
>> diversion)
>>
>> I meant no offense. I recognize he's a newbie to the Mac, but not  
>> to perl, and tried to offer only constructive advice. It's just the  
>> first line that is snarky and I probably should've deleted.
>>
>> Apologies, to Walt and the list, if I was out of line. I wasn't  
>> intending a smack-down; just to point out that perhaps he's asking  
>> the wrong question.
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Darin Fisher wrote:
>>
>> > Sorry Mike but it's a lot more simple than that!
>> >
>> > This is a very experienced list and most of us avoid getting into  
>> "religious" discussions.
>> > But, since I stuck my neck out, I will stay in it...
>> >
>> > The original question is from an obvious "newbie" (and seemingly  
>> a pretty smart one from I can tell).
>> > A lot of us on this specific list have multiple disciplines and  
>> the only reason I spoke when i did was when i couldn't stand it  
>> anymore.
>> > But your argument is just too inviting to old-school smack.
>> >
>> > And given that, try to remember when you were a newbie, we all  
>> were at one point!
>> >
>> > (to everyone else, sorry for the soapbox!)
>> >
>> > -Darin
>> >
>> >
>> > Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is  
>> serious.
>> > - Brendan Gill
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
>> > To: Walt Sanders <wsanders at cruzio.com>; San Francisco Perl  
>> Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:08:09 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
>> >
>> > Walt,
>> >
>> > Maybe I'm just cranky today or maybe I'm too partisan, but I feel  
>> I have to reply to "what a mess to go through for a supposedly  
>> polished OS".
>> >
>> > Mac OS X does exactly what every other OS does when given the  
>> input and output you've shown: if you run a perl script on the  
>> command-line, and it uses print statements, it prints the output in  
>> that same window. Whether the output happens to be text, HTML, or  
>> binary data doesn't matter at all. Print is print.
>> >
>> > It sounds to me like on Windows you were running perl not from  
>> the command-line but from a fancy IDE which would recognize that  
>> the output was HTML and read it for you, copy it to a temporary  
>> file, and open that file in your browser. This behavior sounds  
>> great, but it's unrelated to the operating system (and perl itself,  
>> for that matter). It's entirely a function of whatever IDE you were  
>> using that just happened to run on Windows.
>> >
>> > To get the same behavior on OS X (or any other unix variant), you  
>> can do what Alex Feinberg suggested seven days ago:
>> >    perl myscript.pl > /tmp/file.html && open /tmp/file.html
>> >
>> > which tells perl to run your script (so instead of "myscript.pl"  
>> you'd use the path to your CGI script), take the output and write  
>> it to a file instead of to the screen, and then open that file.  
>> (The open command sees the extension ".html" and knows to open the  
>> file in your default browser.) If this doesn't work, there are only  
>> a couple of reasons:
>> >
>> > 1. "perl" isn't in your path. Use wherever you installed perl  
>> instead. The built-in version is /usr/bin/perl.
>> >
>> > 2. Your script's output didn't properly parse as HTML. That can  
>> cause a blank page to appear in the browser. In this case, you can  
>> go read the temp file directly to see what happened or use "View  
>> Source" on the blank browser page.
>> >
>> > If you are using BBEdit or TextMate or Eclipse or another heavy- 
>> duty OS X text editor it should be easy to set this up as a menu  
>> option within the editor.
>> >
>> > Setting up apache to use something more than the default  
>> configuration is never an easy task, even on Windows. It's "messy"  
>> like tuning a race car is messy -- it's a really complicated engine  
>> because there's more power under the hood than you could possibly  
>> use on the streets. But again, that's a "feature" of apache, not of  
>> the OS.
>> >
>> > So, it seems to me that what you are really looking for is an IDE  
>> that has support for debugging CGI scripts internally. One that  
>> just happens to run on Mac OS X.
>> >
>> > I haven't used it personally, but I believe that this is  
>> available in ActiveState's Komodo IDE, which runs on Windows, Mac  
>> OS X, or Linux. You can find out more and download a demo from  
>> their website:
>> >    http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/index.mhtml
>> >
>> > You should also check to see if the IDE you currently use on  
>> Windows offers a Mac version. Some do.
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your new Mac! I've been  
>> programming perl on OS X for years now and have found it to be a  
>> very good developer platform. The command-line shell takes some  
>> getting used to if you've only used Windows's limited command  
>> shell, but it's a great tool once you understand it.
>> >
>> > -- Mike Friedman
>> >
>> > PS - On a non-perl note, I highly recommend Take Control eBooks  
>> if you want to learn more about your Mac.
>> >    http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/catalog.html
>> >
>> > They don't have one about the unix underpinnings or using the  
>> command-line, so you may also want to check out one of the "Unix on  
>> Mac OS X" books such as O'Reilly's _Learning Unix for Mac OS X  
>> Tiger_. There are others, and that one's a little outdated, but  
>> it's still almost entirely relevant for Leopard.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Nov 17, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:
>> >
>> > > Lara, I surely hope you had all this in a file to grab and  
>> send?!  My god what a mess to go through for a supposedly polished  
>> OS.  And why doesn't Apple have this already configured, I'm  
>> wondering.
>> > >
>> > > Gotta go now and I'm away tomorrow, but will then try to digest  
>> your instructions and give it a try.  I am at the point where I was  
>> about to start advertising for a fixer to take my machine and make  
>> it work.  But, this is new hope.  Many, many thanks and I'll report  
>> back.  Walt.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Monday, at , Lara Ortiz de Montellano wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> 1. Re: perl on a mac (Walt Sanders)
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>> >
>> >  
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Michael Friedman                    HighWire Press
>> > Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
>> > FAX:  270-721-8034                   
>> <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
>> >  
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Michael Friedman                    HighWire Press
>> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
>> FAX:  270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081119/3e1e019a/attachment-0001.html>

From rdm at cfcl.com  Wed Nov 19 22:10:08 2008
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:10:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
Message-ID: <p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>

<snark>
Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
</snark>

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Nov 19 23:39:40 2008
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:39:40 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
Message-ID: <200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:

> <snark>
> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
> </snark>

What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?


From darin_fisher at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 20 00:01:04 2008
From: darin_fisher at yahoo.com (Darin Fisher)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:01:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <925363.20184.qm@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks Joe.  A much better argument than mine.

But I just can't help myself...

Rich, 

The wrong forum!

(and thank you for distracting from my divergence off this topic :) )

But FYI (just do a simple search), there has been and still is, a huge and obviously successful effort to keep PERL in the forefront of available and relevant tools.

-Darin

 Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
- Brendan Gill




________________________________
From: Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu>
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:39:40 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...


Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:

> <snark>
> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
> </snark>

What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?

_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081120/56258ab5/attachment.html>

From rdm at cfcl.com  Wed Nov 19 23:05:42 2008
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:05:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <p06230958c54abc8b7e92@[192.168.1.205]>

At 23:39 -0800 11/19/08, Joe Brenner wrote:
> What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?

I hadn't realized that perldb had a full interpreter built in.
My bad...

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Thu Nov 20 07:57:32 2008
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:57:32 +0000
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@192.168.1.205>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <c37577dd0811200757k72c7f98by932022aeb0959c1c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
>
> > <snark>
> > Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
> > interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
> > developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
> > </snark>
>
> What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?

A less unpleasant interface,

http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/Week-of-Mon-20081110/015663.html

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

From matt at lanier.org  Thu Nov 20 08:01:31 2008
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:01:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <925363.20184.qm@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<925363.20184.qm@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811200759550.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, Darin Fisher wrote:

> Thanks Joe.  A much better argument than mine.
>
> But I just can't help myself...
>
> Rich,
>
> The wrong forum!

<list moderator speaking>

actually, no, this is a fine forum for such divergences.  divergences on 
or about the topic of perl, what it lacks, and why it lacks it are fine 
here.

</list moderator speaking>

m@

>
> (and thank you for distracting from my divergence off this topic :) )
>
> But FYI (just do a simple search), there has been and still is, a huge and obviously successful effort to keep PERL in the forefront of available and relevant tools.
>
> -Darin
>
> Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
> - Brendan Gill
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu>
> To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:39:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
>
>
> Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
>
>> <snark>
>> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
>> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
>> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
>> </snark>
>
> What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

-- 

Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
matt at lanier.org
http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com

From simon at thegestalt.org  Thu Nov 20 09:06:30 2008
From: simon at thegestalt.org (Simon Wistow)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:06:30 +0000
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
Message-ID: <20081120170630.GL77971@thegestalt.org>

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:10:08PM -0700, Rich Morin said:
> <snark>
> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
> </snark>

In typical Perl fashion there's not one, there's loads

http://search.cpan.org/~mstrout/Devel-REPL-1.002001/lib/Devel/REPL.pm

http://search.cpan.org/src/AYRNIEU/App-REPL-0.012/iperl

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Perl/lib/Shell/Perl.pm
http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Shell-Perl-0.0018/bin/pirl

http://search.cpan.org/dist/perlconsole/

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Base/Base.pm

amongst others and of which Devel::REPL is probably the best.

There's even a 3 part article about it

http://chainsawblues.vox.com/library/post/a-perl-read-excute-print-loop-repl.html

Usefully there's also something which drops you into the REPL if an 
exception is thrown

http://search.cpan.org/~sartak/Carp-REPL-0.13/lib/Carp/REPL.pm

Hell, there's even an entire Shell written in Perl

http://search.cpan.org/~pardus/Zoidberg-0.96/


From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Thu Nov 20 10:43:57 2008
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:43:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <20081120170630.GL77971@thegestalt.org>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20081120170630.GL77971@thegestalt.org>
Message-ID: <6AF97A22-9CEE-41BA-AC27-7FCBF8F3137C@highwire.stanford.edu>

Simon,

Now *this* is why I joined the SF PM list!
My free time is now earmarked for at least the next month trying these  
out. :-)

Zoidberg: A real login shell! You can pipeline perl expressions! I  
can't even begin to comprehend how useful this'll be in my work... It  
could change the way I debug problems entirely.

Thanks!
-- Mike


On Nov 20, 2008, at 9:06 AM, Simon Wistow wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:10:08PM -0700, Rich Morin said:
>> <snark>
>> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
>> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
>> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
>> </snark>
>
> In typical Perl fashion there's not one, there's loads
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~mstrout/Devel-REPL-1.002001/lib/Devel/REPL.pm
>
> http://search.cpan.org/src/AYRNIEU/App-REPL-0.012/iperl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Perl/lib/Shell/Perl.pm
> http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Shell-Perl-0.0018/bin/pirl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/perlconsole/
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Base/Base.pm
>
> amongst others and of which Devel::REPL is probably the best.
>
> There's even a 3 part article about it
>
> http://chainsawblues.vox.com/library/post/a-perl-read-excute-print-loop-repl.html
>
> Usefully there's also something which drops you into the REPL if an
> exception is thrown
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~sartak/Carp-REPL-0.13/lib/Carp/REPL.pm
>
> Hell, there's even an entire Shell written in Perl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~pardus/Zoidberg-0.96/
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From duane.obrien at gmail.com  Wed Nov 19 23:40:58 2008
From: duane.obrien at gmail.com (Duane Obrien)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:40:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@192.168.1.205>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <d7127f0b0811192340n5c860a46h421d088f2d621248@mail.gmail.com>

More flavorful stew?

/the h is silent

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
>
>> <snark>
>> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
>> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
>> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
>> </snark>
>
> What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>



-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.

From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Thu Nov 20 10:58:47 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:58:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <20081120170630.GL77971@thegestalt.org>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20081120170630.GL77971@thegestalt.org>
Message-ID: <EAB99DC0-6D0C-46B2-A52D-569D1087E60B@pacificwebdesign.org>

This is very encouraging.  Maybe one of these will work for me.  But,  
it will take a while to explore so much.  Thanks Simon, Walt.






On Thursday, at , Simon Wistow wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:10:08PM -0700, Rich Morin said:
>> <snark>
>> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
>> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
>> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
>> </snark>
>
> In typical Perl fashion there's not one, there's loads
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~mstrout/Devel-REPL-1.002001/lib/Devel/REPL.pm
>
> http://search.cpan.org/src/AYRNIEU/App-REPL-0.012/iperl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Perl/lib/Shell/Perl.pm
> http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Shell-Perl-0.0018/bin/pirl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/perlconsole/
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Base/Base.pm
>
> amongst others and of which Devel::REPL is probably the best.
>
> There's even a 3 part article about it
>
> http://chainsawblues.vox.com/library/post/a-perl-read-excute-print-loop-repl.html
>
> Usefully there's also something which drops you into the REPL if an
> exception is thrown
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~sartak/Carp-REPL-0.13/lib/Carp/REPL.pm
>
> Hell, there's even an entire Shell written in Perl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~pardus/Zoidberg-0.96/
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Nov 20 11:31:55 2008
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:31:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <c37577dd0811200757k72c7f98by932022aeb0959c1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@192.168.1.205>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<c37577dd0811200757k72c7f98by932022aeb0959c1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200811201932.mAKJVtKQ042928@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:

> > > <snark>
> > > Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
> > > interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
> > > developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
> > > </snark>
> >
> > What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?
>
> A less unpleasant interface,
>
> http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/Week-of-Mon-20081110/015663.html

I see, I would say the main advantage from my point of view is that irb
let's you do multi-line expressions... do you do that a lot?  I can't
say I see what it's for exactly.


From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Thu Nov 20 11:46:56 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:46:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
Message-ID: <9F6C8A03-F150-4DFE-8C2C-939C2AEBE67F@pacificwebdesign.org>

This is very encouraging.  Maybe one of these will work for me.  But,  
it will take a while to explore so much.  Thanks Simon, Walt.






On Thursday, at , Simon Wistow wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:10:08PM -0700, Rich Morin said:
>> <snark>
>> Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
>> interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
>> developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
>> </snark>
>
> In typical Perl fashion there's not one, there's loads
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~mstrout/Devel-REPL-1.002001/lib/Devel/REPL.pm
>
> http://search.cpan.org/src/AYRNIEU/App-REPL-0.012/iperl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Perl/lib/Shell/Perl.pm
> http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Shell-Perl-0.0018/bin/pirl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/perlconsole/
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/Shell-Base/Base.pm
>
> amongst others and of which Devel::REPL is probably the best.
>
> There's even a 3 part article about it
>
> http://chainsawblues.vox.com/library/post/a-perl-read-excute-print-loop-repl.html
>
> Usefully there's also something which drops you into the REPL if an
> exception is thrown
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~sartak/Carp-REPL-0.13/lib/Carp/REPL.pm
>
> Hell, there's even an entire Shell written in Perl
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~pardus/Zoidberg-0.96/
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081120/d9955f1e/attachment.html>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Nov 20 11:54:06 2008
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:54:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:

> It's time for the SFPUG to have a new leader that can take it into the
> next decade of open source fun.  The job is equal parts fun (getting smart
> people to present at the meetings, representing at OSCON), administrivia
> (monitoring a mailing list along with me, the list grandma), and hard work
> (geting smart people to present at the meetings ;-).

I was talking to the Other Candidate the other night, and he sounded
less than enthusiastic, so I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring
(whatever that means).

My campaign platform is "business as usual".  Meetings every month or
two, focused on perl but probably not fantically so ("stuff you use with
perl" covers a lot of ground).

Talks by Big Names on Big Subjects are good, but I also like to hear
"view from the trenches" talks from Joe Programmer.  I like lightning
talks, though I have a feeling we could play with the format a bit (a
small number of slightly longer talks perhaps -- "slow lightning"?).


From alex at strlen.net  Thu Nov 20 17:22:03 2008
From: alex at strlen.net (Alex Feinberg)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:22:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <200811201932.mAKJVtKQ042928@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@192.168.1.205>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<c37577dd0811200757k72c7f98by932022aeb0959c1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<200811201932.mAKJVtKQ042928@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20081121012203.GA25846@strlen.net>

I use Perldb myself quite a lot as a REPL. Combined with
XML::Simple/JSON::Syck and LWP it's a very useful way to debug web
services (e.g. use XML::Simple; use LWP::Simple; x
XMLin(get('http://foo.com/status.xml') ; )


Thing is perldb is a debugger, rather than a REPL tool. So if it
were to have REPL like features, it'd mean giving up ability to work
as a debugger:

It would be useful if perldb allowed me to just paste example of
code as I trouble-shot it, with regards for lexical scoping and use
strict.

If I wanted to try out this segment on REPL -
my $foo = 'hi';
print $foo;

I'd have to do it as a single line - which makes sense when you're
dealing with in the content of a debugger.

    Perhaps there is a way to do it - but I am not aware of it. In
addition support for emacs/vi keybindings (and other simple editing)
would be somewhat nice.

    I should look into one of the many third-party REPL tools for
this.

    
On Thursday, 20 November 2008 at 11:31:55 -0800, Joe Brenner wrote:
> Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> > Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > > Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
> 
> > > > <snark>
> > > > Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
> > > > interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
> > > > developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
> > > > </snark>
> > >
> > > What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?
> >
> > A less unpleasant interface,
> >
> > http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/Week-of-Mon-20081110/015663.html
> 
> I see, I would say the main advantage from my point of view is that irb
> let's you do multi-line expressions... do you do that a lot?  I can't
> say I see what it's for exactly.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

From gj262 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 20 17:52:19 2008
From: gj262 at yahoo.com (Gavin Jefferies)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:52:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <65b3137e0811201752t57550e1aq340d0c9f080ccaf0@mail.gmail.com>

After being on this list for some years I have yet to make it to a
single meeting. However I would feel some loss if sfpug went down and
so FWIW I will second Joe for leader.
Cheers,
Gavin

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
>
>> It's time for the SFPUG to have a new leader that can take it into the
>> next decade of open source fun.  The job is equal parts fun (getting smart
>> people to present at the meetings, representing at OSCON), administrivia
>> (monitoring a mailing list along with me, the list grandma), and hard work
>> (geting smart people to present at the meetings ;-).
>
> I was talking to the Other Candidate the other night, and he sounded
> less than enthusiastic, so I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring
> (whatever that means).
>
> My campaign platform is "business as usual".  Meetings every month or
> two, focused on perl but probably not fantically so ("stuff you use with
> perl" covers a lot of ground).
>
> Talks by Big Names on Big Subjects are good, but I also like to hear
> "view from the trenches" talks from Joe Programmer.  I like lightning
> talks, though I have a feeling we could play with the format a bit (a
> small number of slightly longer talks perhaps -- "slow lightning"?).
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>



-- 
VMBed - http://vmbed.com/ - Machines when you want them.
Test Automation - http://vmbed.com/?page/automate

From extasia at extasia.org  Thu Nov 20 18:05:21 2008
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:05:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <65b3137e0811201752t57550e1aq340d0c9f080ccaf0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<65b3137e0811201752t57550e1aq340d0c9f080ccaf0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c714a9c0811201805i25adefedye67ddbce12e2d72e@mail.gmail.com>

i want to know how the candidates feel about same sex coding pairs.  :-)

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Gavin Jefferies <gj262 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> After being on this list for some years I have yet to make it to a
> single meeting. However I would feel some loss if sfpug went down and
> so FWIW I will second Joe for leader.

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Nov 20 18:43:49 2008
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:43:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0811201805i25adefedye67ddbce12e2d72e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<65b3137e0811201752t57550e1aq340d0c9f080ccaf0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c714a9c0811201805i25adefedye67ddbce12e2d72e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200811210243.mAL2hnJ9054602@kzsu.stanford.edu>

David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:

> Gavin Jefferies <gj262 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > After being on this list for some years I have yet to make it to a
> > single meeting. However I would feel some loss if sfpug went down and
> > so FWIW I will second Joe for leader.

> i want to know how the candidates feel about same sex coding pairs.  :-)

Prohibiting same-sex coding pairs would all but eliminate the
practice (maybe not such a bad idea...).

In anycase, I've just heard a rumor about a more qualified candidate,
which means I'm saved.


From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Thu Nov 20 18:44:38 2008
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:44:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <20081121012203.GA25846@strlen.net>
References: <6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@192.168.1.205>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<c37577dd0811200757k72c7f98by932022aeb0959c1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<200811201932.mAKJVtKQ042928@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20081121012203.GA25846@strlen.net>
Message-ID: <2f8a56f70811201844y6fe34c09x9878f3ffbb666cd1@mail.gmail.com>

A friend of mine is working on a Perl REPL of sorts.  The end goal is a full
shell replacement, but it's still definitely a work in progress (I'm sure
he'd appreciate help, if anyone were so inclined).  It's at TTK's code
closet <http://ciar.org/ttk/codecloset/>.  I'm specifically referring to
Calc; version 2 is a more finished product, but version 3 is cleaner code
(he tells me; I haven't actually looked at the source yet).  Anyway, it
might be closer to the kind of REPL other languages have; it's generally
more featureful than other Perl REPL offereings (at least one's he has
explored, including Devel::REPL).  It's not a replacement for the debugger
(no explicit break/continue/next type of functionality, for instance), but
should be a reasonably good REPL.

My $0.005.  YMMV.

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Alex Feinberg <alex at strlen.net> wrote:

> I use Perldb myself quite a lot as a REPL. Combined with
> XML::Simple/JSON::Syck and LWP it's a very useful way to debug web
> services (e.g. use XML::Simple; use LWP::Simple; x
> XMLin(get('http://foo.com/status.xml') ; )
>
>
> Thing is perldb is a debugger, rather than a REPL tool. So if it
> were to have REPL like features, it'd mean giving up ability to work
> as a debugger:
>
> It would be useful if perldb allowed me to just paste example of
> code as I trouble-shot it, with regards for lexical scoping and use
> strict.
>
> If I wanted to try out this segment on REPL -
> my $foo = 'hi';
> print $foo;
>
> I'd have to do it as a single line - which makes sense when you're
> dealing with in the content of a debugger.
>
>    Perhaps there is a way to do it - but I am not aware of it. In
> addition support for emacs/vi keybindings (and other simple editing)
> would be somewhat nice.
>
>    I should look into one of the many third-party REPL tools for
> this.
>
>
> On Thursday, 20 November 2008 at 11:31:55 -0800, Joe Brenner wrote:
> > Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> > > Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > > > Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > <snark>
> > > > > Isn't it about time somebody created something like irb (the
> > > > > interactive ruby interpreter) for Perl?  Sorry, I forgot; the
> > > > > developers are all busy (re-)designing Perl 6...
> > > > > </snark>
> > > >
> > > > What would an irb get you that the perldb doesn't?
> > >
> > > A less unpleasant interface,
> > >
> > >
> http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/Week-of-Mon-20081110/015663.html
> >
> > I see, I would say the main advantage from my point of view is that irb
> > let's you do multi-line expressions... do you do that a lot?  I can't
> > say I see what it's for exactly.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20081120/ec936306/attachment.html>

From matt at lanier.org  Thu Nov 20 18:26:11 2008
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:26:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>


folks-

thanks to the folks that stepped up to be the leader candidates, both 
publicly and privately (several folks did, aside from the two that 
publicly volunteered).  after mulling over this quite a bit (and throwing 
some darts), i've decided to hand off leadership of the sfpug to Fred 
Moyer <http://search.cpan.org/~phred/>.  He's a long time member, active 
contributor in the mod_perl community, YAPC presenter, well versed in the 
ways of user groups, and a member in our sister organization ( the sf 
postgres users group).  he knows what he's getting into.  wish him luck.

thanks again, Quinn, for running the show for the last 6 years. and 
thanks, all, for continuing the sfpug.  It means a lot to me that this 
group serves a purpose for the perl community.  I hope it can continue 
doing so in its second decade.

$leader++

m@

-- 

Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
matt at lanier.org
http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu Nov 20 20:11:00 2008
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:11:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0811202011q2f02f685ka6f6bde101fc4701@mail.gmail.com>

All,

I'm delighted at the opportunity to take the reins here at sfpug.  I
would like to extend my thanks the others who also stepped up to help
out the group and hope that they will assist me in leading this
community.  Matt will also be doing the group a great service in
providing a meeting venue at Six Apart, in addition to keeping the
group going for so long.

Tradition dictates that there is normally no meeting for sfpug in
November and December due to the holidays which intercede with our
normal meeting dates of the fourth Tuesday of the month.  However, I
am looking to put together a end of the year social for the group,
stay tuned for the details.

Thanks, and hope to see you all at the upcoming events.

- Fred


On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
>
> folks-
>
> thanks to the folks that stepped up to be the leader candidates, both
> publicly and privately (several folks did, aside from the two that publicly
> volunteered).  after mulling over this quite a bit (and throwing some
> darts), i've decided to hand off leadership of the sfpug to Fred Moyer
> <http://search.cpan.org/~phred/>.  He's a long time member, active
> contributor in the mod_perl community, YAPC presenter, well versed in the
> ways of user groups, and a member in our sister organization ( the sf
> postgres users group).  he knows what he's getting into.  wish him luck.
>
> thanks again, Quinn, for running the show for the last 6 years. and thanks,
> all, for continuing the sfpug.  It means a lot to me that this group serves
> a purpose for the perl community.  I hope it can continue doing so in its
> second decade.
>
> $leader++
>
> m@
>
> --
>
> Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
> matt at lanier.org
> http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Nov 21 09:31:34 2008
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:31:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>

Matt, Fred, All:

Might I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way?

The main reason why the other SFPUG has meetings *every* month, with a 
speaker every time, is that we have two organizers, David and me.  And we 
may soon have a third.  There is absolutely no reason why SFperl needs to 
have a single exclusive leader.

My suggestion is that Fred and Joe both work to organize meetings.  That 
way, if Fred is busy with client/family/house flooding/whatever, we don't 
miss a month.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Nov 21 09:31:34 2008
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:31:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>

Matt, Fred, All:

Might I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way?

The main reason why the other SFPUG has meetings *every* month, with a 
speaker every time, is that we have two organizers, David and me.  And we 
may soon have a third.  There is absolutely no reason why SFperl needs to 
have a single exclusive leader.

My suggestion is that Fred and Joe both work to organize meetings.  That 
way, if Fred is busy with client/family/house flooding/whatever, we don't 
miss a month.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Nov 21 09:33:41 2008
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:33:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
Message-ID: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>

All,

I have a proposal: this December, both SFPUGs and BASS should get together 
for a holiday party, sometime in the 2nd week of December.  

At this point, I don't have a venue, and I'm pretty sure I can't get 
funding myself.  So I'm looking for help with both of those things.  
Ideas?

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco

From matt at lanier.org  Fri Nov 21 09:40:06 2008
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:40:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811210939340.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

Josh-

That's a great idea; I'll encourage fred to go in that direction.  FYI, 
Quinn and I were doing basically that for a while, though unofficially.

m@

On 
Fri, 21 Nov 2008, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Matt, Fred, All:
>
> Might I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way?
>
> The main reason why the other SFPUG has meetings *every* month, with a
> speaker every time, is that we have two organizers, David and me.  And we
> may soon have a third.  There is absolutely no reason why SFperl needs to
> have a single exclusive leader.
>
> My suggestion is that Fred and Joe both work to organize meetings.  That
> way, if Fred is busy with client/family/house flooding/whatever, we don't
> miss a month.
>
>

-- 

Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
matt at lanier.org
http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com

From matt at lanier.org  Fri Nov 21 09:40:46 2008
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:40:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811210940280.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>


sixapart might be able to host.  I'll look into it.

m@

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008, Josh Berkus wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a proposal: this December, both SFPUGs and BASS should get together
> for a holiday party, sometime in the 2nd week of December.
>
> At this point, I don't have a venue, and I'm pretty sure I can't get
> funding myself.  So I'm looking for help with both of those things.
> Ideas?
>
>

-- 

Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
matt at lanier.org
http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com

From matt at lanier.org  Fri Nov 21 09:40:46 2008
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:40:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811210940280.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>


sixapart might be able to host.  I'll look into it.

m@

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008, Josh Berkus wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a proposal: this December, both SFPUGs and BASS should get together
> for a holiday party, sometime in the 2nd week of December.
>
> At this point, I don't have a venue, and I'm pretty sure I can't get
> funding myself.  So I'm looking for help with both of those things.
> Ideas?
>
>

-- 

Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier
matt at lanier.org
http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri Nov 21 10:35:11 2008
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:35:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0811211035x1add6386rccb29b3be318487f@mail.gmail.com>

Josh,

I think that the current SF.pm structure is setup to have one
individual (or email address) interact with the rest of the Perl
Mongers structure (http://www.pm.org).  That is consistent with most
Perl Mongers groups, and has appeared to work well for SF.pm over the
life of its existence, so I would say that this is the way things have
been done.  It may not be perfect, but it works well enough.

But despite the formal structure paradigm, I do see the need for
multiple leaders in the group.  This is a community and I can't do
everything myself (nor would I want to), so I definitely want need
Joe, Matt, Quinn, you, and anyone else in an active role in helping to
lead this group.  I think there is a potential for formal
restructuring but I want to see the group moving forward in the
"business as usual" mode that Joe mentioned in his previous email for
a while before that change is explored.

So to address your concern of having meetings every month, I give you
my word that excluding the traditional meeting breaks in November and
December, we will have a meeting and a speaker for every month going
forward.

- Fred

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:
> Matt, Fred, All:
>
> Might I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way?
>
> The main reason why the other SFPUG has meetings *every* month, with a
> speaker every time, is that we have two organizers, David and me.  And we
> may soon have a third.  There is absolutely no reason why SFperl needs to
> have a single exclusive leader.
>
> My suggestion is that Fred and Joe both work to organize meetings.  That
> way, if Fred is busy with client/family/house flooding/whatever, we don't
> miss a month.
>
> --
> --Josh
>
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL
> San Francisco
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From rdm at cfcl.com  Fri Nov 21 09:32:55 2008
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:32:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@[192.168.1.205]>

At 09:33 -0800 11/21/08, Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
>
> I have a proposal: this December, both SFPUGs and BASS should get
> together for a holiday party, sometime in the 2nd week of December.

I would be *delighted* to invite assorted Rubyists, Pythonistas, and
such to a holiday party.

By default, the December BASS meeting would be on the 24th, but that
is easy to change (easiest if I know before this month's meeting on
11/26).  Here's hoping our Initial Leader can score a venue!

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri Nov 21 10:37:55 2008
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:37:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@192.168.1.205>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@192.168.1.205>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0811211037k661b9cbl787302e6e0a310d7@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
> At 09:33 -0800 11/21/08, Josh Berkus wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I have a proposal: this December, both SFPUGs and BASS should get
>> together for a holiday party, sometime in the 2nd week of December.
>
> I would be *delighted* to invite assorted Rubyists, Pythonistas, and
> such to a holiday party.
>
> By default, the December BASS meeting would be on the 24th, but that
> is easy to change (easiest if I know before this month's meeting on
> 11/26).  Here's hoping our Initial Leader can score a venue!

I'll take those as marching orders and will see what I can do :)



>
> -r
> --
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841
>
> Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Fri Nov 21 12:28:46 2008
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:28:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <200811212028.mALKSkXf075520@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:

> Might I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way?
>
> The main reason why the other SFPUG has meetings *every* month, with a
> speaker every time, is that we have two organizers, David and me.

How do you sub-divide the work?


From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Fri Nov 21 12:28:46 2008
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:28:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <200811212028.mALKSkXf075520@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:

> Might I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way?
>
> The main reason why the other SFPUG has meetings *every* month, with a
> speaker every time, is that we have two organizers, David and me.

How do you sub-divide the work?


From sigje at sigje.org  Fri Nov 21 13:49:00 2008
From: sigje at sigje.org (Jennifer Davis)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:49:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@[192.168.1.205]>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@[192.168.1.205]>
Message-ID: <20081121134824.U96787@slick.sigje.org>

Hey folks,

BayLISA and I'm sure other groups down here would be interested as well. 
We could have a big community party.

-- 

Jennifer Davis

http://www.baylisa.org - BayLISA events

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008, Rich Morin wrote:

> At 09:33 -0800 11/21/08, Josh Berkus wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I have a proposal: this December, both SFPUGs and BASS should get
>> together for a holiday party, sometime in the 2nd week of December.
>
> I would be *delighted* to invite assorted Rubyists, Pythonistas, and
> such to a holiday party.
>
> By default, the December BASS meeting would be on the 24th, but that
> is easy to change (easiest if I know before this month's meeting on
> 11/26).  Here's hoping our Initial Leader can score a venue!
>
> -r
>

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Nov 21 16:38:33 2008
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:38:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <20081121134824.U96787@slick.sigje.org>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20081121134824.U96787@slick.sigje.org>
Message-ID: <200811211638.33541.josh@agliodbs.com>

On Friday 21 November 2008 13:49, Jennifer Davis wrote:
> Hey folks,
>
> BayLISA and I'm sure other groups down here would be interested as well.
> We could have a big community party.

Great.  Would they come to a party in SF, though?

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco

From jared at wordzoo.com  Fri Nov 21 22:34:36 2008
From: jared at wordzoo.com (Jared Rhine)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:34:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <925363.20184.qm@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<6525C2B6-24FE-442C-B3D3-BA54E7A0051A@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@[192.168.1.205]>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<925363.20184.qm@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1227335676.7925.14.camel@goose>

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 00:01 -0800, Darin Fisher wrote:
> ...effort to keep PERL in the forefront...

"PERL" (all upppercase) is an error.  Repent!

--- Question 12 of perlfaq1 ---

What's the difference between "perl" and "Perl"?
One bit. Oh, you weren't talking ASCII? :-) Larry now uses "Perl" to
signify the language proper and "perl" the implementation of it, i.e.
the current interpreter. Hence Tom's quip that "Nothing but perl can
parse Perl."

Before the first edition of Programming perl, people commonly referred
to the language as "perl", and its name appeared that way in the title
because it referred to the interpreter. In the book, Randal Schwartz
capitalised the language's name to make it stand out better when
typeset. This convention was adopted by the community, and the second
edition became Programming Perl, using the capitalized version of the
name to refer to the language.

You may or may not choose to follow this usage. For example, parallelism
means "awk and perl" and "Python and Perl" look good, while "awk and
Perl" and "Python and perl" do not. But never write "PERL", because perl
is not an acronym, apocryphal folklore and post-facto expansions
notwithstanding.

-------

Keeping within the "rant" spirit that started this thread, for $DEITY
sake, if you are applying for a job in a technology, try to spell that
technology properly.  I've passed over many a resume based on people
listing "PERL" expertise.  I hope to find refuge from that travesty here
with the perl mongers...

-- Jared




From sigje at sigje.org  Fri Nov 21 23:04:23 2008
From: sigje at sigje.org (Jennifer Davis)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:04:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <200811211638.33541.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20081121134824.U96787@slick.sigje.org>
	<200811211638.33541.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <20081121230413.V73312@slick.sigje.org>

Sure .. we have folks up in the SF area :)

-- 

Jennifer Davis

http://www.baylisa.org - BayLISA events

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008, Josh Berkus wrote:

> On Friday 21 November 2008 13:49, Jennifer Davis wrote:
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> BayLISA and I'm sure other groups down here would be interested as well.
>> We could have a big community party.
>
> Great.  Would they come to a party in SF, though?
>
>

From extasia at extasia.org  Fri Nov 21 23:59:14 2008
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:59:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac ...
In-Reply-To: <1227335676.7925.14.camel@goose>
References: <18382818-7B9C-47D7-A3AF-1B6975B1DE2B@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<366613.40561.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<75F2A07B-2D56-4370-9B67-17D6ABBA30CA@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<412274.6859.qm@web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2039E4DC-F834-4038-91EA-E660F5485CF8@mac.com>
	<47D20AB4-B2C6-4843-A6A1-DCA2B75F0CB9@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<p06230957c54aaf325ddd@192.168.1.205>
	<200811200739.mAK7deeW028732@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<925363.20184.qm@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1227335676.7925.14.camel@goose>
Message-ID: <4c714a9c0811212359u7cc61d38m3d2dbde86ec9d7d1@mail.gmail.com>

could PERL possibly stand for Petty Episode Routed to the List?  or
maybe Please Expunge Related Lectures?  or maybe Preachy Entity Ranted
Loudly?  it could stand for all manner of things.  i'm not sure.  no.
i think it stands for Damn--After Years on the List I Finally Took the
Troll Bait.  sorry.  i'll do better next time.  i promise.

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Jared Rhine <jared at wordzoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 00:01 -0800, Darin Fisher wrote:
>> ...effort to keep PERL in the forefront...
>
> "PERL" (all upppercase) is an error.  Repent!
>
> --- Question 12 of perlfaq1 ---
>
> What's the difference between "perl" and "Perl"?
> One bit. Oh, you weren't talking ASCII? :-) Larry now uses "Perl" to
> signify the language proper and "perl" the implementation of it, i.e.
> the current interpreter. Hence Tom's quip that "Nothing but perl can
> parse Perl."
>
> Before the first edition of Programming perl, people commonly referred
> to the language as "perl", and its name appeared that way in the title
> because it referred to the interpreter. In the book, Randal Schwartz
> capitalised the language's name to make it stand out better when
> typeset. This convention was adopted by the community, and the second
> edition became Programming Perl, using the capitalized version of the
> name to refer to the language.
>
> You may or may not choose to follow this usage. For example, parallelism
> means "awk and perl" and "Python and Perl" look good, while "awk and
> Perl" and "Python and perl" do not. But never write "PERL", because perl
> is not an acronym, apocryphal folklore and post-facto expansions
> notwithstanding.
>
> -------
>
> Keeping within the "rant" spirit that started this thread, for $DEITY
> sake, if you are applying for a job in a technology, try to spell that
> technology properly.  I've passed over many a resume based on people
> listing "PERL" expertise.  I hope to find refuge from that travesty here
> with the perl mongers...


-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From nheller at silcon.com  Sat Nov 22 10:16:25 2008
From: nheller at silcon.com (Neil Heller)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:16:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0811201805i25adefedye67ddbce12e2d72e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>	<200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>	<65b3137e0811201752t57550e1aq340d0c9f080ccaf0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c714a9c0811201805i25adefedye67ddbce12e2d72e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c94cce$70ee9e30$52cbda90$@com>

Wouldn't it be interesting if before matching a pair (male or female or
mixed) the coders were given a complete psychological evaluation?  Then,
passives could be paired with aggressive and on and on...

Neil Heller
510-862-4387

-----Original Message-----
From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+nheller=silcon.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+nheller=silcon.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of
David Alban
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:05 PM
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership

i want to know how the candidates feel about same sex coding pairs.  :-)

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Gavin Jefferies <gj262 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> After being on this list for some years I have yet to make it to a
> single meeting. However I would feel some loss if sfpug went down and
> so FWIW I will second Joe for leader.

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Sat Nov 22 11:18:21 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:18:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
Message-ID: <7A23365B-AD81-433D-9B8C-894899273B24@pacificwebdesign.org>

Dan, in looking back over your suggestions, I found this to work in  
Terminal:

perl idpass.cgi > output.html | open output.html     This brings the  
output up in Firefox successfully.

This is the first time I've succeeded in getting perl output on my  
machine!  Many thanks for this direction.

Now, if I can find how to translate this behavior to Coda and  
TextMate, for example, I will be home free.  Going back and forth from  
Terminal to editor is a pain, although a big improvement over  
uploading every iteration.

This at least shows that perl can run on my machine.  Thanks again,  
Walt.

From not.com at gmail.com  Sat Nov 22 14:13:46 2008
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:13:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <7A23365B-AD81-433D-9B8C-894899273B24@pacificwebdesign.org>
References: <7A23365B-AD81-433D-9B8C-894899273B24@pacificwebdesign.org>
Message-ID: <75cbfa570811221413v25674a8x521d44eefd85331c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Walt Sanders
<wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org> wrote:
>
> Dan, in looking back over your suggestions, I found this to work in Terminal:
>
> perl idpass.cgi > output.html | open output.html     This brings the output up in Firefox successfully.

Try this, to save yourself some typing
$ phrun() {
  perl $1 > temporary.html | open temporary.html
 }
$ phrun idpass.cgi

if you like it, you can put the phrun() definition into your .profile,
and you'll have it every time you run terminal.

there's nothing special about the name phrun (perl html run?), call it
whatever you like

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Sat Nov 22 14:54:37 2008
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:54:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <000c01c94cce$70ee9e30$52cbda90$@com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<65b3137e0811201752t57550e1aq340d0c9f080ccaf0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c714a9c0811201805i25adefedye67ddbce12e2d72e@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c94cce$70ee9e30$52cbda90$@com>
Message-ID: <200811222254.mAMMsbgT007735@kzsu.stanford.edu>


My new startup will have a recruiting booth at Power Exchange.

(Funny: there are no modules with "Psychology" in the name up on CPAN.)


Neil Heller <nheller at silcon.com> wrote:

> Wouldn't it be interesting if before matching a pair (male or female or
> mixed) the coders were given a complete psychological evaluation?  Then,
> passives could be paired with aggressive and on and on...
>
> Neil Heller
> 510-862-4387
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+nheller=silcon.com at pm.org
> [mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+nheller=silcon.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of
> David Alban
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:05 PM
> To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
>
> i want to know how the candidates feel about same sex coding pairs.  :-)
>
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Gavin Jefferies <gj262 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > After being on this list for some years I have yet to make it to a
> > single meeting. However I would feel some loss if sfpug went down and
> > so FWIW I will second Joe for leader.
>
> --
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

From duane.obrien at gmail.com  Sat Nov 22 16:57:46 2008
From: duane.obrien at gmail.com (Duane Obrien)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:57:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] Looking for the next round of leadership
In-Reply-To: <200811222254.mAMMsbgT007735@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811141402000.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811201954.mAKJs65W043621@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<65b3137e0811201752t57550e1aq340d0c9f080ccaf0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c714a9c0811201805i25adefedye67ddbce12e2d72e@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c94cce$70ee9e30$52cbda90$@com>
	<200811222254.mAMMsbgT007735@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <d7127f0b0811221657m2d28e042wfd8ca92a5d9b071d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> My new startup will have a recruiting booth at Power Exchange.

I wouldn't advise it.  You'll only get dirty code.

-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sat Nov 22 18:04:52 2008
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:04:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <75cbfa570811221413v25674a8x521d44eefd85331c@mail.gmail.com>
	(not.com@gmail.com's message of "Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:13:46 -0800")
References: <7A23365B-AD81-433D-9B8C-894899273B24@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<75cbfa570811221413v25674a8x521d44eefd85331c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86wsevryd7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "yary" == yary  <not.com at gmail.com> writes:

yary> Try this, to save yourself some typing
yary> $ phrun() {
yary>   perl $1 > temporary.html | open temporary.html
yary>  }
yary> $ phrun idpass.cgi

Why the pipe?  You're not piping anything.  A semicolon would be more
appropriate.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From biztos at mac.com  Sat Nov 22 18:52:24 2008
From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:52:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <86wsevryd7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <7A23365B-AD81-433D-9B8C-894899273B24@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<75cbfa570811221413v25674a8x521d44eefd85331c@mail.gmail.com>
	<86wsevryd7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <E2F3CEA5-97B5-44E1-8B4D-FC0AD5F50FA0@mac.com>

Why the semicolon?  You may have thrown an error.

I would do it like this, if for some reason I really didn't want my  
CGI programs executable:

phrun() {
     perl "$1" > "$1.$$.html" && open "$1.$$.html"
}

But that's still frighteningly unsafe for my taste.  Try "phrun -v"  
for instance. (It won't break anything; just use the Finder to look at  
the file.)

It's also worth noting that a lot of "standard" CGI programs will  
output an HTTP header, which may not look so good in your browser.   
Getting around that is probably just as much work as setting up a  
local web server.

-- f.

On Nov 22, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

>>>>>> "yary" == yary  <not.com at gmail.com> writes:
>
> yary> Try this, to save yourself some typing
> yary> $ phrun() {
> yary>   perl $1 > temporary.html | open temporary.html
> yary>  }
> yary> $ phrun idpass.cgi
>
> Why the pipe?  You're not piping anything.  A semicolon would be more
> appropriate.
>
> -- 
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503  
> 777 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside  
> discussion
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From pm.org at daveola.com  Sun Nov 23 12:55:11 2008
From: pm.org at daveola.com (David Ljung Madison)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:55:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <E2F3CEA5-97B5-44E1-8B4D-FC0AD5F50FA0@mac.com>
References: <E2F3CEA5-97B5-44E1-8B4D-FC0AD5F50FA0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E1L4M2u-0003Kk-Ce@dave.getdave.com>

> Getting around that is probably just as much work as setting up a  
> local web server.

Or more.

I have an ultra-simple web server that I use for testing stuff
like this all the time.  No configuration files, no setup, and
it does CGI (and is written in perl, of course):

  http://MarginalHacks.com/index.0.html#httpdave


Be aware that if your machine is on the net and you have
this running, then they have access to it as well, and
all the security implications that creates.

Feel free to use it for testing, I just ask that you
don't judge me by my early perl coding skills.  :)


Dave

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Ljung Madison          http://GetDave.com/                415 341-5555
------------ "Preferred over shiny round objects 2-to-1" ------------------

From wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org  Sun Nov 23 13:31:48 2008
From: wsanders at pacificwebdesign.org (Walt Sanders)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:31:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <E2F3CEA5-97B5-44E1-8B4D-FC0AD5F50FA0@mac.com>
References: <7A23365B-AD81-433D-9B8C-894899273B24@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<75cbfa570811221413v25674a8x521d44eefd85331c@mail.gmail.com>
	<86wsevryd7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<E2F3CEA5-97B5-44E1-8B4D-FC0AD5F50FA0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4739C796-2CF5-4CEC-9CFE-6CFF3C24D11A@pacificwebdesign.org>

Thanks Kevin.  This makes it just a little bit neater.  Now if I could  
somehow get my Coda or TextMate to run the programs like Terminal  
does, I would be 100% operational.  Just can't see how to make these  
clients similarly interpret the perl to produce and open an .html  
file.  If anyone knows how to do that, I'm buying the beers!





On Saturday, at , Kevin Frost wrote:

> Why the semicolon?  You may have thrown an error.
>
> I would do it like this, if for some reason I really didn't want my  
> CGI programs executable:
>
> phrun() {
>    perl "$1" > "$1.$$.html" && open "$1.$$.html"
> }
>
> But that's still frighteningly unsafe for my taste.  Try "phrun -v"  
> for instance. (It won't break anything; just use the Finder to look  
> at the file.)
>
> It's also worth noting that a lot of "standard" CGI programs will  
> output an HTTP header, which may not look so good in your browser.   
> Getting around that is probably just as much work as setting up a  
> local web server.
>
> -- f.
>
> On Nov 22, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "yary" == yary  <not.com at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> yary> Try this, to save yourself some typing
>> yary> $ phrun() {
>> yary>   perl $1 > temporary.html | open temporary.html
>> yary>  }
>> yary> $ phrun idpass.cgi
>>
>> Why the pipe?  You're not piping anything.  A semicolon would be more
>> appropriate.
>>
>> -- 
>> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503  
>> 777 0095
>> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
>> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
>> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside  
>> discussion
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Sun Nov 23 14:29:35 2008
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:29:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] perl on a mac
In-Reply-To: <4739C796-2CF5-4CEC-9CFE-6CFF3C24D11A@pacificwebdesign.org>
References: <7A23365B-AD81-433D-9B8C-894899273B24@pacificwebdesign.org>
	<75cbfa570811221413v25674a8x521d44eefd85331c@mail.gmail.com>
	<86wsevryd7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<E2F3CEA5-97B5-44E1-8B4D-FC0AD5F50FA0@mac.com>
	<4739C796-2CF5-4CEC-9CFE-6CFF3C24D11A@pacificwebdesign.org>
Message-ID: <9656E873-AA67-4D73-8A25-CA256B125466@highwire.stanford.edu>

TextMate? Easy.

This is basically from the "Shell Script" bundle's "Run Script"  
command, just without the header & footer.

Go into the Bundle Editor and create a new Bundle (or pick a Bundle  
you already work in). I find it easiest to keep my commands out of  
existing bundles so I can reload them from the svn repository as needed.

Create a Command inside that Bundle. Name it something like "Run and  
Show HTML" or whatever.

For the command choose:
Save: Current File
Input: None
Output: Show as HTML
Commands: paste in the following <<GO;

if [ ! -x "$TM_FILEPATH" ]; then

   res=$(iconv <<APPLESCRIPT -f utf-8 -t mac|osascript 2>/dev/null
   tell app "TextMate" to return button returned of ?
     (display dialog "To run ?${TM_FILENAME}? as a shell script it  
needs to be executable.\n\nWould you like to make it executable?" ?
       buttons {"Cancel", "Make Executable"} ?
       with icon 1 default button 2)
APPLESCRIPT)

   if [[ "$res" != "Make Executable" ]]; then echo  
'<script>window.close()</script>'; abort; exit; fi
   chmod a+x "$TM_FILEPATH"
fi

"$TM_FILEPATH" 2>&1

GO

Then select your script and choose that command from that bundle.  
It'll run the script, asking to make it executable first if needed,  
and show the output as HTML in TextMate's HTML viewer. This uses  
WebKit, so it'll look just like it would in Safari. Links work, titles  
work, etc.

The core of the command, though, is just exactly what we've all been  
discussing for the command line: run this file and show the output in  
a browser. TextMate just takes care of the intermediate tmp file for  
you.

You'll probably want to customize this to suit your needs -- make  
another command that runs selected text, make commands to ssh to the  
server and run things, etc. You can use any language in a TM command  
that you like, including Perl. I just used shell commands here because  
it already exists. See the TextMate help files for details.

-- Mike


On Nov 23, 2008, at 1:31 PM, Walt Sanders wrote:

> Thanks Kevin.  This makes it just a little bit neater.  Now if I  
> could somehow get my Coda or TextMate to run the programs like  
> Terminal does, I would be 100% operational.  Just can't see how to  
> make these clients similarly interpret the perl to produce and open  
> an .html file.  If anyone knows how to do that, I'm buying the beers!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, at , Kevin Frost wrote:
>
>> Why the semicolon?  You may have thrown an error.
>>
>> I would do it like this, if for some reason I really didn't want my  
>> CGI programs executable:
>>
>> phrun() {
>>   perl "$1" > "$1.$$.html" && open "$1.$$.html"
>> }
>>
>> But that's still frighteningly unsafe for my taste.  Try "phrun -v"  
>> for instance. (It won't break anything; just use the Finder to look  
>> at the file.)
>>
>> It's also worth noting that a lot of "standard" CGI programs will  
>> output an HTTP header, which may not look so good in your browser.   
>> Getting around that is probably just as much work as setting up a  
>> local web server.
>>
>> -- f.
>>
>> On Nov 22, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> "yary" == yary  <not.com at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> yary> Try this, to save yourself some typing
>>> yary> $ phrun() {
>>> yary>   perl $1 > temporary.html | open temporary.html
>>> yary>  }
>>> yary> $ phrun idpass.cgi
>>>
>>> Why the pipe?  You're not piping anything.  A semicolon would be  
>>> more
>>> appropriate.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503  
>>> 777 0095
>>> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
>>> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
>>> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside  
>>> discussion
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From josh at agliodbs.com  Wed Nov 26 14:14:11 2008
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:14:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [ meta ] new leadership chosen
In-Reply-To: <200811212028.mALKSkXf075520@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811201810400.29669@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<200811210931.35045.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<200811212028.mALKSkXf075520@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <492DCA33.8020206@agliodbs.com>

Joe Brenner wrote:
> Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:
> 
>> Might I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way?
>>
>> The main reason why the other SFPUG has meetings *every* month, with a
>> speaker every time, is that we have two organizers, David and me.
> 
> How do you sub-divide the work?

Initiative and IRC:

<agliodbs>davidfetter: hey, do you have anyone for the November meeting yet?
<davidfetter> yes, I have a guy to do PostGIS for beginners.
<agliodbs> Oh, good.  You have a venue?
<davidfetter> No.
<agliodbs> I'll ask Miho.
<agliodbs> Jaspersoft volunteered to do a demo of reporting. Should I 
book that for January?
<davidfetter> worksforme
<agliodbs> OK.

Not that we haven't stepped on each other's toes a couple of times due 
to poor timing overlap, but most of the time it works.  Just remember to 
*never* commit to a date for a speaker without first checking with your 
co-leaders.

--Josh Berkus

From rdm at cfcl.com  Wed Nov 26 13:29:28 2008
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:29:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <ad28918e0811211037k661b9cbl787302e6e0a310d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@192.168.1.205>
	<ad28918e0811211037k661b9cbl787302e6e0a310d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230985c55370179a3f@[192.168.1.205]>

At 10:37 -0800 11/21/08, Fred Moyer wrote:
> I'll take those as marching orders and will see what I can do :)

Any news?  I'd like to update the BASS page...

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From josh at agliodbs.com  Wed Nov 26 14:32:13 2008
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:32:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <p06230985c55370179a3f@[192.168.1.205]>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@[192.168.1.205]>
	<ad28918e0811211037k661b9cbl787302e6e0a310d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230985c55370179a3f@[192.168.1.205]>
Message-ID: <492DCE6D.8030309@agliodbs.com>

Rich Morin wrote:
> At 10:37 -0800 11/21/08, Fred Moyer wrote:
>> I'll take those as marching orders and will see what I can do :)
> 
> Any news?  I'd like to update the BASS page...

Not yet.  Matt was going to check if we could host the party at 
SixApart, and Steve is checking into the Berkeley Marina clubhouse. We 
should have a venue after Thanksgiving.

--Josh


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Nov 26 14:33:02 2008
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:33:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <p06230985c55370179a3f@192.168.1.205>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@192.168.1.205>
	<ad28918e0811211037k661b9cbl787302e6e0a310d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230985c55370179a3f@192.168.1.205>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0811261433o45aa7e94kaad368952df6f1e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
> At 10:37 -0800 11/21/08, Fred Moyer wrote:
>> I'll take those as marching orders and will see what I can do :)
>
> Any news?  I'd like to update the BASS page...

I'm waiting to hear back from some possible hosts for this get
together.  I think that either the 17th or 18th would be a good date -
any thoughts on alternative dates?

From josh at agliodbs.com  Wed Nov 26 14:34:10 2008
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:34:10 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
In-Reply-To: <ad28918e0811261433o45aa7e94kaad368952df6f1e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200811210933.42090.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<p0623095fc54c9fefcb67@[192.168.1.205]>
	<ad28918e0811211037k661b9cbl787302e6e0a310d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230985c55370179a3f@[192.168.1.205]>
	<ad28918e0811261433o45aa7e94kaad368952df6f1e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <492DCEE2.3050806@agliodbs.com>

Fred Moyer wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
>> At 10:37 -0800 11/21/08, Fred Moyer wrote:
>>> I'll take those as marching orders and will see what I can do :)
>> Any news?  I'd like to update the BASS page...
> 
> I'm waiting to hear back from some possible hosts for this get
> together.  I think that either the 17th or 18th would be a good date -
> any thoughts on alternative dates?

16th would also be good.

--Josh


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Nov 26 16:59:05 2008
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:59:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [vote] was Re: Proposal: SFPUG+SFPUG+BASS holiday party
Message-ID: <ad28918e0811261659s4c326dc0y58097baa44e35bcc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Josh Berkus <josh at agliodbs.com> wrote:
>> I'm waiting to hear back from some possible hosts for this get
>> together.  I think that either the 17th or 18th would be a good date -
>> any thoughts on alternative dates?
>
> 16th would also be good.

Please respond on or off list with your preference for a date for this
gathering.

1) 16th

2) 17th

3) 18th

From rower at movieeditor.com  Sat Nov 29 13:19:42 2008
From: rower at movieeditor.com (Robin Rowe)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:19:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] CinePaint Perl programmer
Message-ID: <4931B1EE.2020301@movieeditor.com>

Hi. Would you like to help with an open source project?

I lead an open source paint project called CinePaint. It's a fun 
community project that uses mainly C/C++ code, with some Perl. Great for 
anyone with some free time who'd like to be part of an open source team. 
Seeking help with embedded Perl and cons.

Please respond off-list.

Thank you!

Robin