From extasia at extasia.org Mon Oct 1 11:34:18 2007 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:34:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] don't understand regexp behavior Message-ID: <4c714a9c0710011134m17da6fedt8c4712ac7d2ab932@mail.gmail.com> i've got a file with one line: $ cat ~/junk2 //foo/bar/bat.c#42 delete $ od -c ~/junk2 0000000 / / f o o / b a r / b a t . c # 0000020 4 2 d e l e t e \n 0000032 and i get: $ perl -ne 'm{ \A ( [^\#]+ \# \d+ ) \s+ \S+ }xms and print' ~/junk2 //foo/bar/bat.c#42 delete $ perl -ne 'm{ \A ( [^\#]+ \# \d+ ) \s+ \S+ \z }xms and print' ~/junk2 the second invocation prints nothing. what am i missing? i would expect both patterns to match. i actually want to use the second pattern because words like 'delete', 'add', 'edit' will be last on each line of input. This is perl, v5.8.5 built for i386-linux-thread-multi thanks, david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From kvale at phy.ucsf.edu Mon Oct 1 11:53:40 2007 From: kvale at phy.ucsf.edu (Mark Kvale) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:53:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] don't understand regexp behavior In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0710011134m17da6fedt8c4712ac7d2ab932@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0710011134m17da6fedt8c4712ac7d2ab932@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47014234.2010000@phy.ucsf.edu> David Alban wrote: > i've got a file with one line: > > $ cat ~/junk2 > //foo/bar/bat.c#42 delete > > $ od -c ~/junk2 > 0000000 / / f o o / b a r / b a t . c # > 0000020 4 2 d e l e t e \n > 0000032 > > and i get: > > $ perl -ne 'm{ \A ( [^\#]+ \# \d+ ) \s+ \S+ }xms and print' ~/junk2 > //foo/bar/bat.c#42 delete > > $ perl -ne 'm{ \A ( [^\#]+ \# \d+ ) \s+ \S+ \z }xms and print' ~/junk2 > > the second invocation prints nothing. > > what am i missing? i would expect both patterns to match. i actually > want to use the second pattern because words like 'delete', 'add', > 'edit' will be last on each line of input. > > This is perl, v5.8.5 built for i386-linux-thread-multi > > thanks, > david Note that \z matches the very end of the sting, but you have not allowed for the newline whitespace: 1031% perl -ne 'm{ \A ( [^\#]+ \# \d+ ) \s+ \S+ \n\z}xms and print' test.txt //foo/bar/bat.c#42 delete If you don't want to deal with the newline, use \Z. Mark From extasia at extasia.org Mon Oct 1 13:04:58 2007 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:04:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] don't understand regexp behavior In-Reply-To: <47014234.2010000@phy.ucsf.edu> References: <4c714a9c0710011134m17da6fedt8c4712ac7d2ab932@mail.gmail.com> <47014234.2010000@phy.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0710011304s16076145x2d7f86242e1b939f@mail.gmail.com> roight! mostly i chomp before matching. makes sense. thanks! On 10/1/07, Mark Kvale wrote: > Note that \z matches the very end of the sting, but you have not allowed for the > newline whitespace: -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From cba at groundworkopensource.com Tue Oct 2 11:46:42 2007 From: cba at groundworkopensource.com (Chris B. Anderson) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:46:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] BayLISA Monitoring SIG: Weds Oct 10, 7PM Message-ID: (Hi: You're invited to the BayLISA Monitoring SIG, Weds Oct 10, 7PM. See the meeting announcement pasted below: feel free to post it and/or forward it along to anyone else who might be interested. Many thanks, and hope to see you there!) ================================================= Oct. 2007 BayLISA Monitoring SIG: What Doesn't Work We'll discuss monitoring tools and strategies you've tried, and maybe still use, and what their limitations are. Come ready to share your grandest monitoring experiments and failures, or be prepared to ask probing questions about why someone else's well-laid plans went awry. Or bring the requirements for your proposed monitoring deployment/expansion and we'll peruse it for obvious and not-so-obvious gotchas. What: BayLISA Monitoring SIG XI: What Doesn't Work Who: Anyone interested in IT monitoring issues and tools (newbies particularly welcome!) When: Wednesday, Oct 10 2007, 7PM Where: GroundWork Open Source, 139 Townsend St., San Francisco How: 139 Townsend St. is very near AT&T Ballpark. It is one and a half blocks from the CalTrain Depot. Take the MUNI N, T or J trolley to 2nd and King (ballpark stop) or take the 30 or 45 bus (among others) crosstown. Free evening street parking can probably be found, but there are also several fee-based parking garages around in case of parking difficulty. Cost: Free!! Fine dining provided by GroundWork: pizza, pop, and snacks. We'll open up the doors at 6:30 or so and start the formal part of the meeting promptly at 7PM. RSVP (not necessary, but helpful): Peter Mui, pmui at groundworkopensource.com , 415 992 4573 ================================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20071002/b33a0403/attachment.html From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 5 11:08:29 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:08:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Belated follow-up (on Lenovo hardware support) Message-ID: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> Back in February, I mailed the list about repairing my fried Thinkpad (I'd plugged it into a bad power outlet at a Meetup, and some part of the circuitry was zapped). This post describes my experience with Lenovo tech support. Read on if you're interested in this kind of thing. Exgeekutive summary: 1. Lenovo tech support is very fast and very good. 2. They'll replace unrelated parts that are just old, not broken. 2. But they may also replace perfectly good hardware (e.g. your wifi card) with something that doesn't work under Linux. 3. Some parts they will overnight to you and let you install yourself, which is a nice time-saver. 4. If you do need to ship in your computer, be prepared for an OS reinstall when it comes back. They will re-image your hard drive, even if you ask them not to(!) To their credit, they did warn me about this. 5. If you don't want to ship it, on-site warranties are available, for a price. 6. T-series Thinkpads seem to have some issues with their CD-R/DVD drives. 7. Despite items 2, 4, and 6, I maintain that Thinkpads are overall the best laptops for running Linux. The kernel plays well with the hardware, as does Xorg, and the keyboard and pointing device ergonomics are still far ahead of competitors (including, IMO, Apple). Hardware support for Linux users is a little misguided, but not totally clueless (e.g. they did warn me about having to reinstall the OS); probably it's the best that's to be had among laptop vendors. * * * So here's what happened: To my surprise, my Thinkpad was under warranty, even though I'd bought it on eBay. (In retrospect, I see my surprise was naive.) I called tech support around 3:45 on a weekday. The next day, a DHL box arrived. I packed up my Thinkpad in the box and dropped it off on a Saturday. That Wednesday, I received the serviced Thinkpad. So the turnaround time was very good: about four business days for a complete repair. However, the repair itself was mixed. On the bright side, they gave me some stuff I hadn't asked for. They replaced the keyboard wrist rest (which had a couple of bumps from overtightened screws) and the CD/DVD drive (which was working fine, but was a little loose in its "alcove"), and the battery (which was getting old). Plus, of course, they opened the case and replaced the fried power subcard, which was the original problem. On the not-so-bright side, they also replaced my aftermarket mini-PCI 802.11 A/B/G card, which was working fine, with one that doesn't work under Linux. Also, they re-imaged my hard drive and installed Windows XP (supposedly in order to run some diagnostic software). Of course, I'd backed up ~ and /etc before shipping off the box. Still, it was a pain to install Ubuntu from scratch. They had warned me that they might reimage my hard drive, _even if I checked the box that said not to_. Not so good. Coda: a few months later, the new CD/DVD drive stopped working. It wouldn't eject properly, unless I used the paperclip method, and it wouldn't read discs at all. I called Lenovo. I expressed my desire not to send in my laptop again. Instead, they overnighted me a new drive, which I installed myself. Nice. Epilogue: A few days ago I bought an extended warranty. I decided to pay for an upgrade to on-site service. That means they send a technician to your place of business--in my case, my house--and they fix things on the spot. It was $219 for three years of coverage or $499 for five years, which I thought was reasonable. (If I use the on-site service just once, it will more than pay for itself in billable hours that I don't lose.) I opted for the five-year deal; I use Linux, and this box is plenty fast for everything I do. I'll probably hang onto it forever. The only downside of the warranty is that, due to some peculiarity, in California they don't cover accidental damage. So if I drop the laptop I'm out of luck. Conclusion: Overall, I give IBM high marks. With just a standard warranty, I got very fast service and lots of extra, gratuitous repairs. Their treatment of Linux users is a little misguided (cf. my wifi card), but not wholly clueless. And they worked with me on the CD/DVD issue. I hope all this verbiage is useful to someone. :) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From it at morelater.com Fri Oct 5 11:08:50 2007 From: it at morelater.com (Chris Allert) Date: 5 Oct 2007 14:08:50 -0400 Subject: [sf-perl] This address is no longer in use. Please use contact form. Message-ID: <20071005180850.85079.qmail@epsilon.pair.com> This is an automated response. Because I get so much junk mail, I am no longer checking this address. If you are trying to contact Chris Allert, please go to the following web-page: http://www.morelater.com/contact.html From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 5 12:07:01 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:07:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] This address is no longer in use. Please use contact form. In-Reply-To: <20071005180850.85079.qmail@epsilon.pair.com> References: <20071005180850.85079.qmail@epsilon.pair.com> Message-ID: <20071005190701.GA57716@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 02:08:50PM -0400, Chris Allert wrote: > > This is an automated response. > > Because I get so much junk mail, I am no longer checking this address. If you are trying to contact Chris Allert, please go to the following web-page: > > http://www.morelater.com/contact.html I've unsubscribed this guy. Sorry for the noise. (It appears he set his autoresponder to mail the Reply-To address, rather than the envelope From address.) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From asheesh at asheesh.org Fri Oct 5 12:10:26 2007 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] Belated follow-up (on Lenovo hardware support) In-Reply-To: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Quinn Weaver wrote: > 1. Lenovo tech support is very fast and very good. Hear, hear! > 4. If you do need to ship in your computer, be prepared for an OS > reinstall when it comes back. They will re-image your hard drive, > even if you ask them not to(!) To their credit, they did warn me about this. They told me to take out my hard drive before I sent my laptop to them for this reason. > 7. Despite items 2, 4, and 6, I maintain that Thinkpads are overall > the best laptops for running Linux. The kernel plays well with the > hardware, as does Xorg, and the keyboard and pointing device > ergonomics are still far ahead of competitors (including, IMO, Apple). > Hardware support for Linux users is a little misguided, but not > totally clueless (e.g. they did warn me about having to reinstall the > OS); probably it's the best that's to be had among laptop vendors. Plus, you can get used, perfect-quality ThinkPads still in warranty for very reasonable prices. Businesses buy ThinkPads+3 year warranties that stay in the office for a year and then get upgraded, and the result is that I have an amazing laptop for $700 with a two-year IBM^WLenovo warranty. -- Asheesh. -- God is Dead. -- Nietzsche Nietzsche is Dead. -- God Nietzsche is God. -- Dead From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 5 12:33:04 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:33:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time Message-ID: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> And now on to more interesting topics. A few weeks ago, we brainstormed lightning talk ideas. Lots of good ideas were thrown around. We quickly generated enough to justify a meeting, if we go through with most of them. Very cool. Now it's time to plan the details. Potential dates are October 23 (two weeks from next Tuesday) November 27 (the Tuesday after Thanksgiving) Potential speakers are listed below, with topics. If you are one of the listed speakers, please reply to me and let me know 1) which topics, if any, you want to go through with and 2) which date you prefer. If you prefer one but you can manage the other, please say that too. (To reduce noise, please reply off-list; I'll post an update when I've heard from all speakers.) If you want to do a talk but you haven't spoken up yet, now's the time! Same deal applies: please send me 1) topics and 2) preferred date. Potential speakers and topics, so far: Fred: Short version of one of his Perl talks (TBD) Joe: New Features in Perl 5.10 Joe: "What was I *thinking*?!" [engineering temptations to avoid] Quinn*: Why Object::InsideOut is my new favorite module Quinn*: What I learned from trying "test first" Quinn*: (Iff time allows, heh) time management tips and traps Tatsuhiko: Web::Scraper I am ready to commit to all three of my topics, for five minutes each. (However, I'll defer if we run short on time.) I can do either date. Thanks! This should be awesome. I [heart] lightning talks. :) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From dat1965 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 5 17:35:18 2007 From: dat1965 at yahoo.com (David Thompson) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] Belated follow-up (on Lenovo hardware support) In-Reply-To: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <10428.42907.qm@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com> > On the not-so-bright side, they also replaced my aftermarket mini-PCI > 802.11 A/B/G card, which was working fine, with one that doesn't work > under Linux. Uh, so what did you (or they) finally do about your wireless card? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 5 18:14:51 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 18:14:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Belated follow-up (on Lenovo hardware support) In-Reply-To: <10428.42907.qm@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> <10428.42907.qm@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071006011451.GA59023@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 05:35:18PM -0700, David Thompson wrote: > > On the not-so-bright side, they also replaced my aftermarket mini-PCI > > 802.11 A/B/G card, which was working fine, with one that doesn't work > > under Linux. > > Uh, so what did you (or they) finally do about your wireless card? I didn't feel like fighting over it, so I just started using one of the many PCMCIA wifi cards I have lying around. It's a (hold on, I have to postpone this message so I can eject it...) MSI CB54G2. Works fine under Linux. Before I was using Intel's 2915 802.11 A/B/G card, which works great but requires you to load a proprietary microcode blob at boot time. :P -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From moseley at hank.org Sat Oct 6 07:09:42 2007 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 07:09:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Belated follow-up (on Lenovo hardware support) In-Reply-To: <20071006011451.GA59023@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> <10428.42907.qm@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <20071006011451.GA59023@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <20071006140941.GA7580@hank.org> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 06:14:51PM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > Uh, so what did you (or they) finally do about your wireless card? > > I didn't feel like fighting over it, so I just started using one of the > many PCMCIA wifi cards I have lying around. It's a (hold on, I have > to postpone this message so I can eject it...) MSI CB54G2. Works > fine under Linux. What wireless card did they put in? My Feisty install has their Atheros card which has a few problems but mostly works. Something in the network manager/madwifi causes Network Manager to often report the card is disconnected and then re-connects, and I also get panics "Dazed and Confused" (unexpected NMI IIRC) which brings down the network until I reboot. I've heard reports that those two problems go away with Gutsy. 03:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. Unknown device 0024 (rev 01) Subsystem: Atheros Communications, Inc. Unknown device 0033 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 21 Memory at edf00000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [60] Express Legacy Endpoint IRQ 0 Capabilities: [90] MSI-X: Enable- Mask- TabSize=1 -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From quinn at fairpath.com Sun Oct 7 10:48:05 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:48:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Belated follow-up (on Lenovo hardware support) In-Reply-To: <20071006140941.GA7580@hank.org> References: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> <10428.42907.qm@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <20071006011451.GA59023@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071006140941.GA7580@hank.org> Message-ID: <20071007174805.GA77608@fu.funkspiel.org> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 07:09:42AM -0700, Bill Moseley wrote: > On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 06:14:51PM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > > Uh, so what did you (or they) finally do about your wireless card? > > > > I didn't feel like fighting over it, so I just started using one of the > > many PCMCIA wifi cards I have lying around. It's a (hold on, I have > > to postpone this message so I can eject it...) MSI CB54G2. Works > > fine under Linux. > > What wireless card did they put in? > > My Feisty install has their Atheros card which has a few problems but > mostly works. Something in the network manager/madwifi causes Network > Manager to often report the card is disconnected and then re-connects, > and I also get panics "Dazed and Confused" (unexpected NMI IIRC) > which brings down the network until I reboot. I've heard reports that > those two problems go away with Gutsy. Thanks for the tip! I'm on Edgy, but I'm planning to move to Gutsy when it's released. (I guess a clean reinstall is easier than upgrading to Feisty, then to Gutsy. Feisty's broken upgrade process is what's kept me from upgrading earlier.) > 03:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. Unknown device 0024 (rev 01) > Subsystem: Atheros Communications, Inc. Unknown device 0033 > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 21 > Memory at edf00000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] > Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 > Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- > Capabilities: [60] Express Legacy Endpoint IRQ 0 > Capabilities: [90] MSI-X: Enable- Mask- TabSize=1 Where did you get this output? From kinfocenter (the KDE hardware browser), I get: 02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01) I think that's from somewhere in /proc, but I don't know where. Fun discursion: I had forgotten this, but I had to flip a bit in my Thinkpad's NVRAM (scary) to make it work with the Intel card. This is because the BIOS checks your mini-PCI card against a whitelist and _refuses to boot_ if you don't have an approved card. Sigh. Supposedly this is to make sure you use hardware that complies with FCC regulations. Anyway, you can turn off the whitelist behavior by flipping this single bit, which you do by dd'ing some magic value to /dev/nvram. As I said, scary--you can make your system into an unusable brick if you get it wrong. I was annoyed enough about this to write Lenovo a letter. I never got a response. So, again, Thinkpads are probably the best thing going for Linux... but they're not perfect. -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From moseley at hank.org Sun Oct 7 12:56:57 2007 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:56:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Belated follow-up (on Lenovo hardware support) In-Reply-To: <20071007174805.GA77608@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005180828.GA57439@fu.funkspiel.org> <10428.42907.qm@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <20071006011451.GA59023@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071006140941.GA7580@hank.org> <20071007174805.GA77608@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <20071007195656.GA4297@hank.org> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 10:48:05AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > 03:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. Unknown device 0024 (rev 01) > > Subsystem: Atheros Communications, Inc. Unknown device 0033 > > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 21 > > Memory at edf00000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] > > Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 > > Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- > > Capabilities: [60] Express Legacy Endpoint IRQ 0 > > Capabilities: [90] MSI-X: Enable- Mask- TabSize=1 > > Where did you get this output? >From lspci -v, but I suspect I need an updated pci.ids file since it's saying "Unknown device". -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From rdm at cfcl.com Mon Oct 8 08:33:48 2007 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:33:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] openings for COBOL consultants? Message-ID: A friend of mine is a master COBOL programmer. He has been doing COBOL for about 40 years, and has never stopped learning. He is now 65, retired, and looking about for the odd consulting project. Suggestions, anyone? -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From afife at untangle.com Tue Oct 9 11:33:51 2007 From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] BALUG Meeting: F/OSS Backup & Recovery (Tues 10/16) Message-ID: <003f01c80aa2$dd824160$8eb4a8c0@Untangle.local> Howdy Folks: BALUG is hosting a great talk next Tuesday (10/16) titled "Open Source Backup with Amanda" by the project's co-Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan. Paddy will explain how Amanda is different, its current status and why Linux users should consider using it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- RSVP at BALUG.ORG - RSVPs are not mandatory, but they do help us out a lot -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- 6:30PM October 16th, 2007 (Next Tuesday) Four Seas Restaurant 731 Grant Avenue San Francisco, CA 94108 www.balug.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- COST: The event is free. However, dinner is $13 for those that want to eat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- About Amanda: -------------- Amanda is the worlds most popular open source backup and recovery software. Amanda protects over 500,000 systems running Linux, UNIX, OS-X & Windows. Paddy Sreenivasan is the co-founder & VP Engineering of Amanda's commercial twin, Zmanda. http://amanda.zmanda.com About BALUG: -------------- BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts that combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers. We meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm. At 7pm, we share a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest speaker. www.balug.org I hope to see you there! Andrew P.S. If you want to help BALUG distribute flyers for the event, you can find them here: http://www.balug.org/flyers/2007-10-16.pdf ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Fife Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway download.untangle.com 650.425.3327 (O) 415.806.6028 (C) afife at untangle.com From rdm at cfcl.com Tue Oct 9 18:56:45 2007 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:56:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Linux System Administrator Message-ID: As described in http://www.reactrix.com/careers.php, Reactrix is looking for a Linux System Administrator, based in Redwood City. I've only been at Reactrix for a couple of weeks, but I'm quite happy with the company, so far. Reactrix is a smallish company which has interesting toys and a promising market niche. They use a mix of technologies for development and production, including: Apache, CVS, Git, Java, Linux, Mac OS X, MySQL, OpenGL, Perl, Ruby, Rails, VMWare, and XML If you send me a resume, I'll pass it in to the HR folks. If you send a resume directly to the company, please let them know that you heard about the position through me... -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From quinn at fairpath.com Thu Oct 11 16:32:10 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:32:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] CodeCon returns in 2008 Message-ID: <20071011233210.GA19587@fu.funkspiel.org> Excellent news: CodeCon returns in April of 2008. They haven't released all the details, but if it's anything like past years it should be cool. http://www.codecon.org/2008/ -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 09:52:42 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:52:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:33:04PM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > Fred: Short version of one of his Perl talks (TBD) > Joe: New Features in Perl 5.10 > Joe: "What was I *thinking*?!" [engineering temptations to avoid] > Quinn*: Why Object::InsideOut is my new favorite module > Quinn*: What I learned from trying "test first" > Quinn*: (Iff time allows, heh) time management tips and traps > Tatsuhiko: Web::Scraper It's been a week, and I haven't heard back from any of these potential speakers. I guess this means there's a general lack of enthusiasm about doing lightning talks now? ;) That's OK. I understand the fourth quarter is a busy time for many people. I want this to be a fun experience, not another burdensome item on an already full TODO list. If you're still interested, speak up. But if not, I'll put this item on the back burner and we can take it up next year. -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From nheller at silcon.com Fri Oct 12 10:11:35 2007 From: nheller at silcon.com (Neil Heller) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:11:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> I've got a question and would like to get peoples' opinions. What is to be done if a project has come right up to its deadline and some work has not been completed? Does this vary by who it is that hasn't completed his work (development, testing, etc.)? Is meeting a timeline more important than the quality and verification of quality of the software? From david at fetter.org Fri Oct 12 10:15:34 2007 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:15:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> Message-ID: <20071012171534.GG23337@fetter.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:11:35AM -0700, Neil Heller wrote: > I've got a question and would like to get peoples' opinions. > > What is to be done if a project has come right up to its deadline > and some work has not been completed? Depends. If it turns out that the person had misrepresented the state of completion, that's grounds for termination. > Does this vary by who it is that hasn't completed his work > (development, testing, etc.)? > > Is meeting a timeline more important than the quality and > verification of quality of the software? It frequently is to marketroids, which explains the very sorry state of a lot of proprietary software and some date-driven FLOSS. Cheers, D -- David Fetter http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Skype: davidfetter Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Oct 12 10:17:35 2007 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:17:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <1192209458.2AB77FC6@bc12.dngr.org> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:01 am, Quinn Weaver wrote: > On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:33:04PM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > >> Fred: Short version of one of his Perl talks (TBD) >> Joe: New Features in Perl 5.10 >> Joe: "What was I *thinking*?!" [engineering temptations to >> avoid] >> Quinn*: Why Object::InsideOut is my new favorite module >> Quinn*: What I learned from trying "test first" >> Quinn*: (Iff time allows, heh) time management tips and traps >> Tatsuhiko: Web::Scraper > > It's been a week, and I haven't heard back from any of these potential > speakers. I guess this means there's a general lack of enthusiasm > about doing lightning talks now? ;) Sorry for not responding Quinn. Put me down for a intro to qpsmtpd talk. Fred > That's OK. I understand the fourth quarter is a busy time for many > people. > I want this to be a fun experience, not another burdensome item on an > already > full TODO list. > > If you're still interested, speak up. But if not, I'll put this item > on > the back burner and we can take it up next year. > > -- > Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl > Mongers > http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ > 510-520-5217 > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From extasia at extasia.org Fri Oct 12 10:27:02 2007 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:27:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0710121027lacf83c4h7dfee0c05eb5fc63@mail.gmail.com> one of the goals of tracking projects, and one of the goals of good communication between tech folk and manglers is that when (not if) things slip, manglement knows at the earliest possible time so they can plan around it. manglers almost always get upset when slips are *surprises*. in some shops, dates are expected by manglement to slip. that is, predictions are just that--predictions. they're the best model at the time they're generated. when reality doesn't fit the model, it's time to revise the model. in these shops, tech folk and manglement work together to create the new model. in the mean time *progress has been made*. in other shops, manglement doesn't want to hear 'no'. in these shops you cannot speak truth to power. you may want to ask, where on the continuum between these two points is my shop? On 10/12/07, Neil Heller wrote: > I've got a question and would like to get peoples' opinions. > > What is to be done if a project has come right up to its deadline and some > work has not been completed? > > Does this vary by who it is that hasn't completed his work (development, > testing, etc.)? > > Is meeting a timeline more important than the quality and verification of > quality of the software? -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From extasia at extasia.org Fri Oct 12 10:32:00 2007 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:32:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] lightning discussions Message-ID: <4c714a9c0710121032m204dc6d5o37821cd74f4a34ef@mail.gmail.com> may i respectfully submit that sometimes meetings can be made fun and interesting by abandoning altogether the speaker paradigm. have 'lightning discussions'. that is, have a set of discussion topics, issues, etc. a moderator will throw out a topic and the attendees discuss it. in a non-flaming fashion, of course. change the topic every five or ten or fifteen minutes. how many meetings have you been to where most of the folks there didn't have something to say about any given topic? :-) for instance, the topic of slipping deadlines would seem to lend itself to this type of discussion. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From nheller at silcon.com Fri Oct 12 10:42:58 2007 From: nheller at silcon.com (Neil Heller) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:42:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0710121027lacf83c4h7dfee0c05eb5fc63@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> <4c714a9c0710121027lacf83c4h7dfee0c05eb5fc63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001001c80cf7$54532650$fcf972f0$@com> > in other shops, manglement doesn't want to hear 'no'. in these shops you cannot speak truth to power. you may want to ask, where on the continuum between these two points is my shop? < Ok, I'll bite... Only kidding. I think every person would have a different opinion somewhere between complete and open democracy and Dilbert's shop. What usually happens if "just one more thing needs to be done" before a deadline 15 minutes in the future. Does the deadline slip? Does it matter who needs to do that extra thing (development, testing, etc.)? From extasia at extasia.org Fri Oct 12 10:49:27 2007 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:49:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <001001c80cf7$54532650$fcf972f0$@com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> <4c714a9c0710121027lacf83c4h7dfee0c05eb5fc63@mail.gmail.com> <001001c80cf7$54532650$fcf972f0$@com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0710121049vb255397ve2c658f221efee5a@mail.gmail.com> inadvertently left out the quotes. clarification: you may want to ask [yourself], "where on the continuum between these two points is my shop?" wasn't speaking of my shop, but yours. :-) On 10/12/07, Neil Heller wrote: > Ok, I'll bite... -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From andy at petdance.com Fri Oct 12 11:09:08 2007 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:09:08 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> Message-ID: <20071012180908.GB418@petdance.com> > Is meeting a timeline more important than the quality and verification of > quality of the software? Don't ask us, ask your customer. Explain the situation and ask what the customer would like you to do. -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 11:25:47 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:25:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <1192209458.2AB77FC6@bc12.dngr.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <1192209458.2AB77FC6@bc12.dngr.org> Message-ID: <20071012182547.GA28760@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:17:35AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote: > Sorry for not responding Quinn. No worries! As I said, I know everyone's busy. > Put me down for a intro to qpsmtpd > talk. Awesome. I'll look forward to this one. Consider yourself scheduled, date still unknown. -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 11:37:20 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:37:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] lightning discussions In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0710121032m204dc6d5o37821cd74f4a34ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c0710121032m204dc6d5o37821cd74f4a34ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071012183720.GC28760@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:32:00AM -0700, David Alban wrote: > may i respectfully submit that sometimes meetings can be made fun and > interesting by abandoning altogether the speaker paradigm. have > 'lightning discussions'. that is, have a set of discussion topics, > issues, etc. a moderator will throw out a topic and the attendees > discuss it. in a non-flaming fashion, of course. change the topic > every five or ten or fifteen minutes. Hmmmnn. I like this idea a lot. Often, dinner discussions start out cool but get bogged down, or meander off of technical topics altogether. I'm not exactly a tech-only martinet, but I'd like to try this format and see how it works. It occurs to me that we'd need a time limit per speaker, so everyone gets to say their share. Anyway, I'll put this idea in the hopper. Thanks! -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From miyagawa at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 11:37:48 2007 From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:37:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> I'm ok with either date and my topic (Web::Scraper). Thanks, On 10/5/07, Quinn Weaver wrote: > And now on to more interesting topics. > > A few weeks ago, we brainstormed lightning talk ideas. Lots of good ideas > were thrown around. We quickly generated enough to justify a meeting, if we > go through with most of them. Very cool. > > Now it's time to plan the details. > > Potential dates are > > October 23 (two weeks from next Tuesday) > November 27 (the Tuesday after Thanksgiving) > > Potential speakers are listed below, with topics. > -- Tatsuhiko Miyagawa From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 11:41:01 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:41:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 11:37:48AM -0700, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa wrote: > I'm ok with either date and my topic (Web::Scraper). Sweet! This is starting to look doable. It's too late to do October with decent "publicity" (fourth Tuesday is in less than two weeks). So November 27 is the earliest potential date. -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From miyagawa at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 11:50:13 2007 From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:50:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/07, Quinn Weaver wrote: > Sweet! This is starting to look doable. > > It's too late to do October with decent "publicity" (fourth Tuesday is > in less than two weeks). So November 27 is the earliest potential date. Great. I can also re-do the fabulous "HTML 2.0 - IMG tag hacking" done by Takesako at Shibuya Perl Mongers a few weeks ago while I was back in Japan, if you have more slots that need to be filled. I can put a link to the awesome slides and videos taped there, but it might obviously become a spoiler, so I hesitate :) -- Tatsuhiko Miyagawa From david at fetter.org Fri Oct 12 12:03:27 2007 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:03:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012182547.GA28760@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <1192209458.2AB77FC6@bc12.dngr.org> <20071012182547.GA28760@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <20071012190327.GK23337@fetter.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 11:25:47AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:17:35AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote: > > > Sorry for not responding Quinn. > > No worries! As I said, I know everyone's busy. > > > Put me down for a intro to qpsmtpd talk. > > Awesome. I'll look forward to this one. Consider yourself > scheduled, date still unknown. I'm a little late to the party, but I'd be delighted to talk about some PL/Perl practices I've come up with :) Cheers, D -- David Fetter http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Skype: davidfetter Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 12:46:47 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:46:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <001001c80cf7$54532650$fcf972f0$@com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> <4c714a9c0710121027lacf83c4h7dfee0c05eb5fc63@mail.gmail.com> <001001c80cf7$54532650$fcf972f0$@com> Message-ID: <20071012194647.GA29140@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:42:58AM -0700, Neil Heller wrote: > What usually happens if "just one more thing needs to be done" before a > deadline 15 minutes in the future. > Does the deadline slip? > Does it matter who needs to do that extra thing (development, testing, > etc.)? - If testing itself slips, then the deadline must move. You can't release until you finish testing. Of course, you should project-manage your testing time, just as you manage every other phase--that way, you know in advance if you're going to run out of time. - If testing reveals a problem that you need to address by coding, then Andy is right: you will have to make a call with your customers. - If you are developing any features at T - 15 minutes, then something is very wrong. You should have stopped all development before you started integration testing, right? - If you failed to anticipate some feature you needed, but then realized as much during testing, then 1) you need to go to your customer (cf. Andy) and 2) next time, you can work on improving your project planning. Maybe some mock-up screens would help, or an Extreme Programming-like "story" (= use case). Does this help? I hope so. I've tried to cover all the bases. :) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 12:54:11 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:54:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 11:50:13AM -0700, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa wrote: > On 10/12/07, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > Sweet! This is starting to look doable. > > > > It's too late to do October with decent "publicity" (fourth Tuesday is > > in less than two weeks). So November 27 is the earliest potential date. > > Great. I can also re-do the fabulous "HTML 2.0 - IMG tag hacking" done > by Takesako at Shibuya Perl Mongers a few weeks ago while I was back > in Japan, if you have more slots that need to be filled. Sounds great. > I can put a link to the awesome slides and videos taped there, but it > might obviously become a spoiler, so I hesitate :) I wouldn't worry about it too much. :) This is a good time to mention that speakers will need to post any slides on the Internet, before the event. That way we can all use one laptop. For lightning talks, the overhead of switching laptops is a killer. -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From nheller at silcon.com Fri Oct 12 12:59:58 2007 From: nheller at silcon.com (Neil Heller) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:59:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines In-Reply-To: <20071012194647.GA29140@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <000701c80cf2$f2a61a10$d7f24e30$@com> <4c714a9c0710121027lacf83c4h7dfee0c05eb5fc63@mail.gmail.com> <001001c80cf7$54532650$fcf972f0$@com> <20071012194647.GA29140@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <002c01c80d0a$7771cd40$665567c0$@com> Your ideas are excellent. Thank you very much. -----Original Message----- From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+nheller=silcon.com at pm.org [mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+nheller=silcon.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Quinn Weaver Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 12:47 PM To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Slipping deadlines On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:42:58AM -0700, Neil Heller wrote: > What usually happens if "just one more thing needs to be done" before a > deadline 15 minutes in the future. > Does the deadline slip? > Does it matter who needs to do that extra thing (development, testing, > etc.)? - If testing itself slips, then the deadline must move. You can't release until you finish testing. Of course, you should project-manage your testing time, just as you manage every other phase--that way, you know in advance if you're going to run out of time. - If testing reveals a problem that you need to address by coding, then Andy is right: you will have to make a call with your customers. - If you are developing any features at T - 15 minutes, then something is very wrong. You should have stopped all development before you started integration testing, right? - If you failed to anticipate some feature you needed, but then realized as much during testing, then 1) you need to go to your customer (cf. Andy) and 2) next time, you can work on improving your project planning. Maybe some mock-up screens would help, or an Extreme Programming-like "story" (= use case). Does this help? I hope so. I've tried to cover all the bases. :) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 12:59:59 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:59:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012190327.GK23337@fetter.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <1192209458.2AB77FC6@bc12.dngr.org> <20071012182547.GA28760@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012190327.GK23337@fetter.org> Message-ID: <20071012195959.GB29314@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 12:03:27PM -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 11:25:47AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:17:35AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote: > > > > > Sorry for not responding Quinn. > > > > No worries! As I said, I know everyone's busy. > > > > > Put me down for a intro to qpsmtpd talk. > > > > Awesome. I'll look forward to this one. Consider yourself > > scheduled, date still unknown. > > I'm a little late to the party, but I'd be delighted to talk about > some PL/Perl practices I've come up with :) A PostgreSQL tie-in! Sweet! This is really coming together. Hurrah for the last minute! :) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From miyagawa at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 13:59:52 2007 From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:59:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/07, Quinn Weaver wrote: > This is a good time to mention that speakers will need to post any > slides on the Internet, before the event. That way we can all use one > laptop. I agree that it's a good practice, but I want to do a demo (Argh! live demo on a lightning talk!) so it'd be nice if I can use my own laptop. > For lightning talks, the overhead of switching laptops is a > killer. Yeah ... but in previous YAPCs and Shibuya.pm talks we let most speakers present using their own laptops. Switching time is like 30 secs if we all test the output in advance which is necessary anyway. -- Tatsuhiko Miyagawa From quinn at fairpath.com Fri Oct 12 14:32:33 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:32:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 01:59:52PM -0700, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa wrote: > On 10/12/07, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > This is a good time to mention that speakers will need to post any > > slides on the Internet, before the event. That way we can all use one > > laptop. > > I agree that it's a good practice, but I want to do a demo (Argh! live > demo on a lightning talk!) so it'd be nice if I can use my own laptop. OK. That makes sense. We can make an exception for talk with demos (with testing before the meeting, as you pointed out). Unfortunately, our host does not allow network access by any third-party hardware. So your demo must run sans Internet. :( -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From miyagawa at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 14:50:09 2007 From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:50:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <693254b90710121450s46f46807sd3e0eb7282ac3e40@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/07, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > OK. That makes sense. We can make an exception for talk with demos (with > testing before the meeting, as you pointed out). > > Unfortunately, our host does not allow network access by any third-party > hardware. So your demo must run sans Internet. :( Good to know. I'll download the HTML bit so my script works offline. -- Tatsuhiko Miyagawa From extasia at extasia.org Fri Oct 12 16:29:25 2007 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:29:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0710121629w4ed11b73m6a84706217eca849@mail.gmail.com> no guest wireless network? some companies do that... On 10/12/07, Quinn Weaver wrote: > Unfortunately, our host does not allow network access by any third-party > hardware. So your demo must run sans Internet. :( -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Fri Oct 12 17:46:37 2007 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:46:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <200710130046.l9D0kbKm022840@kzsu.stanford.edu> Quinn Weaver wrote: > Quinn Weaver wrote: > > > Fred: Short version of one of his Perl talks (TBD) > > Joe: New Features in Perl 5.10 > > Joe: "What was I *thinking*?!" [engineering temptations to avoid] > > Quinn*: Why Object::InsideOut is my new favorite module > > Quinn*: What I learned from trying "test first" > > Quinn*: (Iff time allows, heh) time management tips and traps > > Tatsuhiko: Web::Scraper > > It's been a week, and I haven't heard back from any of these potential > speakers. I guess this means there's a general lack of enthusiasm > about doing lightning talks now? ;) Well,I'm up for it, on either date. I was mostly busy deciding what I wanted to talk about (which is likely to be a bit different than the items you've got me down for). From quinn at fairpath.com Sat Oct 13 10:43:13 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 10:43:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0710121629w4ed11b73m6a84706217eca849@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> <4c714a9c0710121629w4ed11b73m6a84706217eca849@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071013174313.GA39560@fu.funkspiel.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 04:29:25PM -0700, David Alban wrote: > no guest wireless network? some companies do that... No, no guest network. :/ You know, it occurs to me that a different venue might work better for this meeting. If anyone has a place they'd like to offer, I'd love to hear about it. For the convenience of our out-of-town members, I'd like a place near public transit--ideally, downtown near BART. Sponsoring pizza is also a definite plus. :) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From david at fetter.org Sat Oct 13 11:05:45 2007 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:05:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071013174313.GA39560@fu.funkspiel.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> <4c714a9c0710121629w4ed11b73m6a84706217eca849@mail.gmail.com> <20071013174313.GA39560@fu.funkspiel.org> Message-ID: <20071013180545.GF23500@fetter.org> On Sat, Oct 13, 2007 at 10:43:13AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 04:29:25PM -0700, David Alban wrote: > > no guest wireless network? some companies do that... > > No, no guest network. :/ It should be doable via an EVDO card. I'll see about hooking that up :) > You know, it occurs to me that a different venue might work better > for this meeting. If anyone has a place they'd like to offer, I'd > love to hear about it. My place in Oakland is usually available, and the policy on my wifi network is open. > For the convenience of our out-of-town members, I'd like a place > near public transit--ideally, downtown near BART. Sponsoring pizza > is also a definite plus. :) Indeed. Cheers, D -- David Fetter http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Skype: davidfetter Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate From quinn at fairpath.com Sat Oct 13 11:15:52 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:15:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <20071013180545.GF23500@fetter.org> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121137q5bf3395xd18cc59298324055@mail.gmail.com> <20071012184101.GA28874@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121150u685f86f2o4b48dfa8ecceb7a2@mail.gmail.com> <20071012195411.GA29314@fu.funkspiel.org> <693254b90710121359n2774e862gbb75872b4405696f@mail.gmail.com> <20071012213233.GA29924@fu.funkspiel.org> <4c714a9c0710121629w4ed11b73m6a84706217eca849@mail.gmail.com> <20071013174313.GA39560@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071013180545.GF23500@fetter.org> Message-ID: <20071013181552.GC39560@fu.funkspiel.org> On Sat, Oct 13, 2007 at 11:05:45AM -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Sat, Oct 13, 2007 at 10:43:13AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 04:29:25PM -0700, David Alban wrote: > > > no guest wireless network? some companies do that... > > > > No, no guest network. :/ > > It should be doable via an EVDO card. I'll see about hooking that up :) You mean you have a carrier card? Sweet. We'll try it out. > > You know, it occurs to me that a different venue might work better > > for this meeting. If anyone has a place they'd like to offer, I'd > > love to hear about it. > > My place in Oakland is usually available, and the policy on my wifi > network is open. Thanks for the offer; I really appreciate it. For now I'm not considering East Bay venues, but I'll let you know if this changes. -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at fairpath.com Sat Oct 13 11:26:24 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:26:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Lightning time In-Reply-To: <200710130046.l9D0kbKm022840@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <20071005193304.GA57903@fu.funkspiel.org> <20071012165242.GA28329@fu.funkspiel.org> <200710130046.l9D0kbKm022840@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <20071013182624.GD39560@fu.funkspiel.org> All right, we've reached critical mass for lightning talks. The meeting will be November 27, venue TBA. Thanks to all our speakers for stepping up. :) -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at fairpath.com Sat Oct 13 11:29:01 2007 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:29:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] October meeting: Beer and Scripting SIG Message-ID: <20071013182901.GE39560@fu.funkspiel.org> Our next meeting will be a social munch with the Beer and Scripting SIG. It's October 24 (a week from this coming Wednesday). All details at http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/ Bon hacketite, -- Quinn Weaver, independent contractor | President, San Francisco Perl Mongers http://fairpath.com/quinn/resume/ | http://sf.pm.org/ 510-520-5217 From mkenley at yahoo.com Mon Oct 15 18:19:31 2007 From: mkenley at yahoo.com (martin) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Network Appliance, Sunnyvale, looking for Perl Programmers Message-ID: <861454.54854.qm@web51509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> All, We have several openings for advanced perl programmers that we are trying to fill immediately. Please send resume's to me or pass the word/email along. martink at netapp.com Thanks Martin Required: ? Knowledge of test automation and programming ? Experience with Perl, libraries, data structures ? Good understanding of file Systems desired, storage background a plus ? Good communication skills Nice to have: ? Some QA Experience ? Ability to understand technical aspects of our products in sufficient detail to analyze results and debug problems in conjunction with Development. ? Proven track record working on products from inception to delivery. ? Strong presentation, leadership and follow-up skills ? Ability to own and drive a task to its completion ? Excellent team player. Ability to interact with cross-functional teams. ? Experience with Object Oriented programming is a plus. ? Good understanding of file Systems desired, storage background a plus ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From afife at untangle.com Tue Oct 16 00:28:05 2007 From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] BALUG Dinner Tonight (Open Source Backup & Recovery) Message-ID: <003a01c80fc6$024c5f80$4301a8c0@Untangle.local> Howdy Folks: The Bay Area Linux Users Group (BALUG) is hosting a great talk tonight (10/16) titled "Open Source Backup with Amanda" by the project's co-Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan. Paddy will explain how Amanda is different, the projects current status and why Linux users should consider deploying it. ************************************************************************** ** RSVP at BALUG.ORG - RSVPs are not mandatory, but they do help us out a lot ************************************************************************** ** 6:30PM October 16th, 2007 (Tonight!!!) Four Seas Restaurant 731 Grant Avenue San Francisco, CA 94108 www.balug.org ************************************************************************** **COST: The event is free. However, dinner is $13 for those that want to eat. ************************************************************************** ** About Amanda: -------------- Amanda is the worlds most popular open source backup and recovery software. Amanda protects over 500,000 systems running Linux, UNIX, OS-X & Windows. Paddy Sreenivasan is the co-founder & VP Engineering of Amanda's commercial twin, Zmanda. http://amanda.zmanda.com About BALUG: -------------- BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts that combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers. We meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm. At 7pm, we share a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest speaker. http://www.balug.org I hope to see you there! Andrew ******************************************** Andrew Fife Untange - Open Source Security Gateway download.untangle.com 650.425.3327 (O) 415.806.6028 (C) afife at untangle.com From james at ActionMessage.com Tue Oct 16 11:37:36 2007 From: james at ActionMessage.com (James Briggs) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:37:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] BALUG Dinner Tonight - ride from San Jose? In-Reply-To: <003a01c80fc6$024c5f80$4301a8c0@Untangle.local> References: <003a01c80fc6$024c5f80$4301a8c0@Untangle.local> Message-ID: <20071016183523.M77147@actionmessage.com> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:28:05 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Fife wrote > Howdy Folks: > > The Bay Area Linux Users Group (BALUG) is hosting a great talk tonight > (10/16) titled "Open Source Backup with Amanda" by the project's co- > Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan. Paddy will explain how Amanda is > different, the projects current status and why Linux users should consider > deploying it. > > 6:30PM > October 16th, 2007 (Tonight!!!) Please email me if anybody is driving down from San Jose and can give me a ride. Thanks, James Briggs james at actionmessage.com From bh1 at light42.com Tue Oct 16 12:54:21 2007 From: bh1 at light42.com (Brian Hamlin) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:54:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] BALUG Dinner Tonight (Open Source Backup & Recovery) In-Reply-To: <003a01c80fc6$024c5f80$4301a8c0@Untangle.local> References: <003a01c80fc6$024c5f80$4301a8c0@Untangle.local> Message-ID: <965BB5DD-7C21-11DC-ABA3-000A277A733C@light42.com> sounds good +1 On Oct 16, 2007, at 12:28 AM, Andrew Fife wrote: > Howdy Folks: > > The Bay Area Linux Users Group (BALUG) is hosting a great talk tonight > (10/16) titled "Open Source Backup with Amanda" by the project's > co-Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan. Paddy will explain how Amanda is > different, the projects current status and why Linux users should > consider > deploying it. > > *********************************************************************** > *** > ** > RSVP at BALUG.ORG - RSVPs are not mandatory, but they do help us out a lot > *********************************************************************** > *** > ** > > 6:30PM > October 16th, 2007 (Tonight!!!) > Four Seas Restaurant > 731 Grant Avenue > San Francisco, CA 94108 > www.balug.org > > *********************************************************************** > *** > **COST: The event is free. However, dinner is $13 for those that want > to > eat. > *********************************************************************** > *** > ** > > About Amanda: > -------------- > Amanda is the worlds most popular open source backup and recovery > software. Amanda protects over 500,000 systems running Linux, UNIX, > OS-X & > Windows. Paddy Sreenivasan is the co-founder & VP Engineering of > Amanda's > commercial twin, Zmanda. http://amanda.zmanda.com > > > About BALUG: > -------------- > BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts > that > combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers. > We > meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm. At 7pm, we > share > a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest speaker. > http://www.balug.org > > I hope to see you there! > > Andrew > > ******************************************** > Andrew Fife > Untange - Open Source Security Gateway > download.untangle.com > > 650.425.3327 (O) > 415.806.6028 (C) > afife at untangle.com > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From rdm at cfcl.com Mon Oct 22 07:21:06 2007 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:21:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] BASS Meeting (SF), Wed. October 24 Message-ID: The Beer and Scripting SIG rides again! If you'd like to eat good Italian food, chat with other local scripters, and possibly take a look at laptop-demoed scripting hacks, this is the place to do it! For your convenience, here are the critical details: Date: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 (4th. Wed.) Time: 8:00 pm Place: Pasquales Pizzeria 701 Irving St. (At 8th. Ave.) San Francisco, California, USA 415/661-2140 See the BASS web page for more information: http://cfcl.com/rdm/bass/ -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development