From rkleeman at energoncube.net Mon Oct 2 12:51:43 2006 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:51:43 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! Message-ID: <20061002195143.GW7785@energoncube.net> Just a reminder folks, Damian Conway is going to do one of his famous talks tonight at the San Diego Supercomputer Center. Come on by and we'll get started at 7PM. Let me know if there are any questions. From chris at chrisgrau.com Mon Oct 2 13:05:39 2006 From: chris at chrisgrau.com (Chris Grau) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:05:39 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! In-Reply-To: <20061002195143.GW7785@energoncube.net> References: <20061002195143.GW7785@energoncube.net> Message-ID: <20061002200539.GI30659@chrisgrau.com> On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 12:51:43PM -0700, Bob Kleemann wrote: > Damian Conway is going to do one of his famous talks tonight at the > San Diego Supercomputer Center. Come on by and we'll get started at > 7PM. I, for one, am so excited I can barely see straight. Either that, or it's been too long since I've seen my optometrist. -chris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/san-diego-pm/attachments/20061002/d1d51fd7/attachment.bin From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Oct 2 13:25:58 2006 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: 02 Oct 2006 13:25:58 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! In-Reply-To: <20061002200539.GI30659@chrisgrau.com> References: <20061002195143.GW7785@energoncube.net> <20061002200539.GI30659@chrisgrau.com> Message-ID: <86ejtqsbvt.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Grau writes: Chris> I, for one, am so excited I can barely see straight. Be sure someone else drives then. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From schoon at amgt.com Mon Oct 2 13:50:02 2006 From: schoon at amgt.com (Mark Schoonover) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:50:02 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! Message-ID: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E56A@AG-EX1> merlyn at stonehenge.com wrote: >>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Grau writes: > > Chris> I, for one, am so excited I can barely see straight. > > Be sure someone else drives then. :) No, seeing crooked is the fastest way to go anywhere in SOCAL! From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Oct 2 13:51:27 2006 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: 02 Oct 2006 13:51:27 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! In-Reply-To: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E56A@AG-EX1> References: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E56A@AG-EX1> Message-ID: <868xjysapc.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Schoonover writes: Mark> merlyn at stonehenge.com wrote: >>>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Grau writes: >> Chris> I, for one, am so excited I can barely see straight. >> >> Be sure someone else drives then. :) Mark> No, seeing crooked is the fastest way to go anywhere in SOCAL! And being crooked gets you elected... :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From chris at chrisgrau.com Tue Oct 3 10:55:19 2006 From: chris at chrisgrau.com (Chris Grau) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 10:55:19 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! In-Reply-To: <20061002195143.GW7785@energoncube.net> References: <20061002195143.GW7785@energoncube.net> Message-ID: <20061003175519.GB5016@chrisgrau.com> As always, Damian was both entertaining and educational. Whenever I see him lecture/perform, I leave with my creative juices flowing (ew) and an intense desire to create something. Now I just need to figure out what to write... -chris (who just might need some psychological counselling at next week's PM meeting) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/san-diego-pm/attachments/20061003/eed73a2e/attachment.bin From schoon at amgt.com Tue Oct 3 11:03:42 2006 From: schoon at amgt.com (Mark Schoonover) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:03:42 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! Message-ID: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E581@AG-EX1> Chris Grau wrote: >As always, Damian was both entertaining and educational. Whenever I see >him lecture/perform, I leave with my creative juices flowing (ew) and an >intense desire to create something. Now I just need to figure out what >to write... >-chris (who just might need some psychological counselling at next >week's PM meeting) For the 2nd year in a row, I had to miss him! Was it videotaped by chance?? Mark From chris at chrisgrau.com Tue Oct 3 11:09:57 2006 From: chris at chrisgrau.com ('Chris Grau') Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:09:57 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! In-Reply-To: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E581@AG-EX1> References: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E581@AG-EX1> Message-ID: <20061003180957.GC5016@chrisgrau.com> On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 11:03:42AM -0700, Mark Schoonover wrote: > Chris Grau wrote: > > >As always, Damian was both entertaining and educational. Whenever I > >see him lecture/perform, I leave with my creative juices flowing (ew) > >and an intense desire to create something. Now I just need to figure > >out what to write... > > For the 2nd year in a row, I had to miss him! Was it videotaped by > chance?? I don't believe so. Sorry. :( -chris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/san-diego-pm/attachments/20061003/7363bc0e/attachment.bin From rkleeman at energoncube.net Tue Oct 3 11:16:46 2006 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:16:46 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! In-Reply-To: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E581@AG-EX1> References: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E581@AG-EX1> Message-ID: <20061003181646.GX7785@energoncube.net> Damian's presentation was not recorded, per his request. You can come by next week's meeting and we can tell you all about it, or you can catch him the next time he is in town, or the next time you're at a Perl conference, or the next time your company pays for him to give a class, or ... On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 11:03:42AM -0700, Mark Schoonover wrote: > Chris Grau wrote: > > >As always, Damian was both entertaining and educational. Whenever I see > >him lecture/perform, I leave with my creative juices flowing (ew) and an > >intense desire to create something. Now I just need to figure out what > >to write... > > >-chris (who just might need some psychological counselling at next > >week's PM meeting) > > For the 2nd year in a row, I had to miss him! Was it videotaped by chance?? > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > San-Diego-pm mailing list > San-Diego-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm From schoon at amgt.com Tue Oct 3 11:22:35 2006 From: schoon at amgt.com (Mark Schoonover) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:22:35 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Damian Conway, one night only, TONIGHT! Message-ID: <26845D561256D3428A862700DAF69B5808E589@AG-EX1> Bob Kleemann wrote: > Damian's presentation was not recorded, per his request. You can come > by next week's meeting and we can tell you all about it, or you can > catch him the next time he is in town, or the next time you're at a > Perl conference, or the next time your company pays for him to give > a class, or ... > Alright, I get the point.... From dan at tierra.net Tue Oct 3 18:23:32 2006 From: dan at tierra.net (Daniel Risse) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:23:32 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] module idea In-Reply-To: <28e00a750609260954k58d7a204t4fb8dab7614f67f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060926010710.GK7785@energoncube.net> <28e00a750609260954k58d7a204t4fb8dab7614f67f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45230D14.6020206@tierra.net> I must admit, I was also caught up with inspiration after seeing Damian's talk. Specifically, seeing source filters gave me a cool idea to combat something I have been annoyed with for a while now. I spend a lot of time writing for a mod_perl web server. I read and have done a few tests to see that importing symbols can take up unnecessary memory. My tests showed about 100k for each symbol imported. Now it's not difficult to load a module and make fully qualified calls the functions it provide, but it's annoying. Well, after a bit of tinkering this afternoon, I have a functional prototype to make this more efficient, and still the same ease of use. For example, you could write code like this: use absolutify; use Readonly qw( Readonly ); Readonly my $FOO => 1; And the absolute module would install a source filter, so what would be compiled would instead be: use absolutify; use Readonly (); Readonly::Readonly my $FOO => 1; I believe this should be pretty handy and easy to use. The interface certainly seems sufficiently advanced. What do people think about this idea? Dan From chris at chrisgrau.com Tue Oct 3 23:38:45 2006 From: chris at chrisgrau.com (Chris Grau) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:38:45 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] module idea In-Reply-To: <45230D14.6020206@tierra.net> References: <20060926010710.GK7785@energoncube.net> <28e00a750609260954k58d7a204t4fb8dab7614f67f3@mail.gmail.com> <45230D14.6020206@tierra.net> Message-ID: <20061004063845.GA15870@chrisgrau.com> On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 06:23:32PM -0700, Daniel Risse wrote: > I must admit, I was also caught up with inspiration after seeing > Damian's talk. s/inspiration/derangement/ > Specifically, seeing source filters gave me a cool > idea to combat something I have been annoyed with for a while now. Combat, eh? That's just the aikido talking. > I spend a lot of time writing for a mod_perl web server. I read and > have done a few tests to see that importing symbols can take up > unnecessary memory. My tests showed about 100k for each symbol > imported. There's a bit about that in "Practical mod_perl," which is at the office, so I can't reference it right now. > Now it's not difficult to load a module and make fully qualified calls > the functions it provide, but it's annoying. Well, after a bit of > tinkering this afternoon, I have a functional prototype to make this > more efficient, and still the same ease of use. Laziness. I like. > For example, you could write code like this: > > use absolutify; > use Readonly qw( Readonly ); > Readonly my $FOO => 1; > > And the absolute module would install a source filter, so what would > be compiled would instead be: > > use absolutify; > use Readonly (); > Readonly::Readonly my $FOO => 1; > > I believe this should be pretty handy and easy to use. The interface > certainly seems sufficiently advanced. What do people think about > this idea? Slick. I would probably use a different name, Sub::Explicit or something (name idea taken from Perl's error message[0]). That's mostly personal preference, I suppose. The lowercase makes it look like a pragma, which is probably what you were going for. So how do you go about doing the filtering? How easy would it be for me to trip up your module by throwing qw// or qw{} at it instead of qw()? I think it's cool. How long until I can get it from the CPAN? :) -chris [0] Global symbol "$FOO" requires explicit package name at - line 2. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/san-diego-pm/attachments/20061003/1fc317ef/attachment.bin From dgwilson1 at cox.net Fri Oct 6 13:18:58 2006 From: dgwilson1 at cox.net (Douglas Wilson) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:18:58 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] module idea In-Reply-To: <45230D14.6020206@tierra.net> References: <20060926010710.GK7785@energoncube.net> <28e00a750609260954k58d7a204t4fb8dab7614f67f3@mail.gmail.com> <45230D14.6020206@tierra.net> Message-ID: <4526BA32.7040001@cox.net> Daniel Risse wrote: > unnecessary memory. My tests showed about 100k for each symbol imported. 100k? (you mean 100KB?) Something is very wrong. I can't believe it takes that much for one symbol. Or do you mean importing one symbol into many packages? And how many imports would it take to add up to 100K? Perhaps you're counting the memory required by Exporter? That module will probably be required anyway by some dependency of many non-trivial programs. -Doug From dan at tierra.net Fri Oct 6 13:43:05 2006 From: dan at tierra.net (Daniel Risse) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:43:05 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] module idea In-Reply-To: <4526BA32.7040001@cox.net> References: <20060926010710.GK7785@energoncube.net> <28e00a750609260954k58d7a204t4fb8dab7614f67f3@mail.gmail.com> <45230D14.6020206@tierra.net> <4526BA32.7040001@cox.net> Message-ID: <4526BFD9.8030106@tierra.net> Oops... I had ran my tests to measure memory usage a few months ago and didn't recall them correctly. I was off in my recollection. This is a snippet from Practical Mod Perl page 474 which does show actual results. Example 13-13 cgi_oo.pl use CGI () my $q = CGI->new; print $q->header(); print $q->b("Hello"); Example 13-14 cgi_proc.pl use CGI qw(header b); print header(); print b("Hello"); And then the memory usage is listed as 1966 bytes for 13-13 and 4710 for 13-14. This would seem to indicate it is a bit less than 2 KB per symbol. So this module would likely only be important for mod_perl sites, or large projects. With mod_perl, the symbols will likely be exported into several different scripts. And also take up memory for all of the mod_perl processes that are running. It seems like it will often save a bit of memory, and sometimes save a great deal of memory. If this can be done without having to alter the existing code other than importing another module, it seems like there would be little reason not to use it. Dan Douglas Wilson wrote: > Daniel Risse wrote: > >> unnecessary memory. My tests showed about 100k for each symbol imported. >> > > 100k? (you mean 100KB?) > Something is very wrong. I can't believe it takes that much for one > symbol. Or do you mean importing one symbol into many packages? And > how many imports would it take to add up to 100K? > > Perhaps you're counting the memory required by Exporter? > That module will probably be required anyway by some dependency > of many non-trivial programs. > > -Doug > _______________________________________________ > San-Diego-pm mailing list > San-Diego-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/san-diego-pm/attachments/20061006/f2b45585/attachment.html From rkleeman at energoncube.net Mon Oct 9 16:05:32 2006 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:05:32 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Meeting Tonight! Message-ID: <20061009230532.GE22911@energoncube.net> Just a reminder folks, there is a meeting at 7PM tongiht at the Panera Bread on Mira Mesa Blvd. We have plenty to talk about so come and join in the conversation. From chris at chrisgrau.com Tue Oct 10 10:25:48 2006 From: chris at chrisgrau.com (Chris Grau) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:25:48 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Introductory Perl/CPAN Talk Ideas Message-ID: <20061010172548.GA12233@chrisgrau.com> As I mentioned last night, I'd like to put together an introductory "what can one do with Perl and the CPAN?" talk geared toward beginning to intermediate Linux users/admins who don't really know that much about Perl or programming. I have a few ideas, but I'd like to solicit the group to see what material you all would like to see in this type of talk. So, ideas? Suggestions? I've deliberately omitted my own ideas to avoid biasing you all with my own biases. :) -chris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/san-diego-pm/attachments/20061010/79ed8a1b/attachment.bin From david.romano at gmail.com Wed Oct 11 00:06:20 2006 From: david.romano at gmail.com (David Romano) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:06:20 -0700 Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Introductory Perl/CPAN Talk Ideas In-Reply-To: <20061010172548.GA12233@chrisgrau.com> References: <20061010172548.GA12233@chrisgrau.com> Message-ID: <20061011070620.GC10274@turtle.local> Chris Grau wrote on Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 10:25:48AM PDT: > As I mentioned last night, I'd like to put together an introductory > "what can one do with Perl and the CPAN?" talk geared toward beginning > to intermediate Linux users/admins who don't really know that much about > Perl or programming. I have a few ideas, but I'd like to solicit the > group to see what material you all would like to see in this type of > talk. > > So, ideas? Suggestions? I've deliberately omitted my own ideas to > avoid biasing you all with my own biases. :) For my former employer I used Net::{SSH::Perl,FTP} to manage automated testing on client machines and then used another perl script to generate stats for how well the run did. Also, I was the Perl junkie there, so if anyone needed to munge data really quickly, they'd ask me if I could do it quickly. At times I've used Tie::File. Our sysadmin was also grateful for something he didn't know about: perl -MCPAN -e shell Intermediate Linux users (and maybe sysadmins) might like to know about Mail::{Audit,Sendmail} and WWW::Mechanize, all of which I've found useful. I think most of the above can be targeted to those who know just a little programming. - David -- "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." -- Romans 5:8