From rkleeman at energoncube.net Wed Jan 2 18:21:00 2002 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Meeting this month Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Hey Mongers, just a reminder: We have a meeting this month on Wed Jan 16. More details as they become available. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Mon Jan 14 18:07:19 2002 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Meeting this month In-Reply-To: <01b601c19d55$f27d3f40$0464a8c0@nestorflorez.local> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I'm glad you asked. Normal meeting place, Technical Traning Resources 7PM on Wed. One change from the last meeting, we won't be having the same beverages again. Sorry folks, but they've asked us not to bring alcohol to the meetings (insurance reasons). Still, we can have plenty to talk about, bring your questions, bring your ideas, and/or bring something interesting to talk about. The JAPH code we had last time was quite interesting. On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Nestor Florez wrote: > Bob, > > Any more details? > > BTW, I am looking for a job in case anyone knows of something out there. > > Nestor :-) > http://resumes.dice.com/quindio ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at cts.com Mon Jan 14 21:26:43 2002 From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Meeting this month In-Reply-To: References: <01b601c19d55$f27d3f40$0464a8c0@nestorflorez.local> Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.20020114192643.007bc390@crash.cts.com> ~sdpm~ >One change from the last meeting, we won't be having the same beverages >again. Sorry folks, but they've asked us not to bring alcohol to the >meetings (insurance reasons). OK! Opium it is. -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Thu Jan 17 17:27:55 2002 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Looking for a gig again... Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DEAA@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> Hey everyone. I've just been informed my contract here at Intuit is ending tomorrow, so I'm looking for another gig. So if anyone knows of anything (expert perl programmer, Oracle & Informix & other relational database experience...), drop me a line :-) This address will be dead, but I'll still be subscribed from dgwilson@gtemail.net, and there's also: dougw@cpan.org Thanx, Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20020117/ef5a13f2/attachment.htm From anthony at zoovy.com Fri Jan 18 18:19:48 2002 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Emacs stuff Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I forget the name of the emacs guru present at the meeting on Wednesday, but thank you for showing us some stuff there (and thank everyone else for not telling me to take a hike to some emacs user group :) I'm still interested in any links to (or commands I can run) to get more info on how to use emacs in general (with an emphasis on cheat-sheets and mnemonics) and specifically how to specify new syntax highlighting. Also, I'm interested in changing some behaviors that I find frustrating (line wrapping with the \ at the end, for instance, the tendency for it to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting, etc). Thanks! Anthony - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Fri Jan 18 20:28:20 2002 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Emacs stuff Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Dude! Thank you. Soon I will be piloting airliners and fixing various plumbing problems with emacs. Anthony - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 >>> Tkil 01/18/02 05:50PM >>> ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From tkil-sdpm at scrye.com Fri Jan 18 19:59:39 2002 From: tkil-sdpm at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Programming language comparison Message-ID: ~sdpm~ [Sorry if anyone gets this twice; I accidentally sent it from a different address than I'm subscribed to the list under, and it seems to have disappeared.] I don't remember the name of the gentleman I chatted with after the meeting, but we discussed some studies and papers that have been done on the varying efficiencies amongst "traditional" software engineering languages (C, C++, Java), functional languages (Scheme, Lisp, ML), and later expanded to include "scripting" languages (Perl, Python, Ruby). The basic idea was to present the same problem to programmers at various skill levels, in various languages, and to evaluate the results. I found it interesting that they look at quite a few of the "efficiencies" as mentioned in "perlstyle": programmer, space/memory, time. The link that I used is at: http://www-aig.jpl.nasa.gov/public/home/gat/lisp-study.html It includes links to the problem statement, test data, etc. If you have a spare afternoon, I'd suggest working the problem; it's not too difficult, and I found it a relief to work on a small, bounded task after dealing with huge bureaucratic crap all week. My solution is at: http://slinky.scrye.com/~tkil/perl/phonecode A Lisp solution can be viewed at: http://www.norvig.com/java-lisp.html (That link also has a good writeup about the various papers and follow-on studies that had been done.) t. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From tkil-sdpm at scrye.com Fri Jan 18 19:50:20 2002 From: tkil-sdpm at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Emacs stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ [Sorry if anyone gets this twice; I accidentally sent it from a different address than I'm subscribed to the list under, and it seems to have disappeared.] >>>>> "Anthony" == Anthony Kilna writes: Anthony> I forget the name of the emacs guru present at the meeting on Anthony> Wednesday, Hm. I'm not sure I qualify as an emacs "guru", but it was probably me. Anthony> I'm still interested in any links to (or commands I can run) Anthony> to get more info on how to use emacs in general (with an Anthony> emphasis on cheat-sheets and mnemonics) There's always the tutorial, which is a big help (C-h t). There's the info file(s), available under C-h i. As for "cheat sheet", I would imagine that there's an O'Reilly book with a tear-out quick ref sheet. There' probably also some quick-reference sheets just lying around on the web. (Finally, for those who just want a dump of all commands that are readily available, you can do "C-h b" to describe all the "bindings" currently in effect. You can also use "apropos" to look up commands on name...) Anthony> and specifically how to specify new syntax highlighting. If you rummage around in: http://slinky.scrye.com/~tkil/elisp/ You can take a look at two different files that implement syntax highlighting with varying degrees of grace and success: irchat-fontlock.el mysql-fontlock.el Those should be enough to get you started. As I mentioned at the meeting, you can also get lots of information from the built-in documentation on "font-lock-keywords", available by typing: C-h v font-lock-keywords in your default configuration. (If you have backspace issues with control+h, you can also do: ESC x describe-variable RET font-lock-keywords RET I mostly use this in cperl-mode, where Ilya "helpfully" overrode standard bindings. Sigh.) Anthony> Also, I'm interested in changing some behaviors that I find Anthony> frustrating (line wrapping with the \ at the end, for Anthony> instance, Which issue are you referring to? When you're typing new text, if it doesn't wrap, you need to turn on "auto-fill-mode". When you're viewing existing text (e.g., a nice wide log file output), you can have emacs either wrap the text (the default), or have it "truncate" the lines (by setting the variable "truncate-lines" to "t"). If you get the horizontal scroll bar, that's great; otherwise, you need to use "C-x >" and "C-x <" to move left or right. Anthony> the tendency for it to use spaces instead of tabs for Anthony> indenting Take a look at the variable "indent-tabs-mode": | `indent-tabs-mode' is a built-in boolean variable. | | Value: nil | | This value is specific to the current buffer. | | Documentation: | *Indentation can insert tabs if this is non-nil. | Setting this variable automatically makes it local to the current buffer. That last blurb at the bottom means that, if you want to use tabs whenever possible, you have to do something a bit fancy in your .emacs: (setq-default indent-tabs-mode t) (Normally, you can just use "setq"; since that makes the value change only in that buffer, it means that your .emacs buffer has that change, but everywhere else that variable is still "nil".) t. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From tkil-sdpm at scrye.com Wed Jan 23 16:00:15 2002 From: tkil-sdpm at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Programming language comparison [resend] Message-ID: <15439.12911.944375.780940@brand.scrye.com> ~sdpm~ [Sorry if anyone gets this multiple times, I'm having issues with e-mail identities.] I don't remember the name of the gentleman I chatted with after the meeting, but we discussed some studies and papers that have been done on the varying efficiencies amongst "traditional" software engineering languages (C, C++, Java), functional languages (Scheme, Lisp, ML), and later expanded to include "scripting" languages (Perl, Python, Ruby). The basic idea was to present the same problem to programmers at various skill levels, in various languages, and to evaluate the results. I found it interesting that they look at quite a few of the "efficiencies" as mentioned in "perlstyle": programmer, space/memory, time. The link that I used is at: http://www-aig.jpl.nasa.gov/public/home/gat/lisp-study.html It includes links to the problem statement, test data, etc. If you have a spare afternoon, I'd suggest working the problem; it's not too difficult, and I found it a relief to work on a small, bounded task after dealing with huge bureaucratic crap all week. My solution is at: http://slinky.scrye.com/~tkil/perl/phonecode A Lisp solution can be viewed at: http://www.norvig.com/java-lisp.html (That link also has a good writeup about the various papers and follow-on studies that had been done.) t. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From tkil-sdpm at scrye.com Wed Jan 23 16:04:45 2002 From: tkil-sdpm at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:31 2004 Subject: Emacs stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15439.13181.602340.329398@brand.scrye.com> ~sdpm~ [Sorry if anyone gets this multiple times, I'm having issues with e-mail identities.] >>>>> "Anthony" == Anthony Kilna writes: Anthony> I forget the name of the emacs guru present at the meeting on Anthony> Wednesday, Hm. I'm not sure I qualify as an emacs "guru", but it was probably me. Anthony> I'm still interested in any links to (or commands I can run) Anthony> to get more info on how to use emacs in general (with an Anthony> emphasis on cheat-sheets and mnemonics) There's always the tutorial, which is a big help (C-h t). There's the info file(s), available under C-h i. As for "cheat sheet", I would imagine that there's an O'Reilly book with a tear-out quick ref sheet. There' probably also some quick-reference sheets just lying around on the web. (Finally, for those who just want a dump of all commands that are readily available, you can do "C-h b" to describe all the "bindings" currently in effect. You can also use "apropos" to look up commands on name...) Anthony> and specifically how to specify new syntax highlighting. If you rummage around in: http://slinky.scrye.com/~tkil/elisp/ You can take a look at two different files that implement syntax highlighting with varying degrees of grace and success: irchat-fontlock.el mysql-fontlock.el Those should be enough to get you started. As I mentioned at the meeting, you can also get lots of information from the built-in documentation on "font-lock-keywords", available by typing: C-h v font-lock-keywords in your default configuration. (If you have backspace issues with control+h, you can also do: ESC x describe-variable RET font-lock-keywords RET I mostly use this in cperl-mode, where Ilya "helpfully" overrode standard bindings. Sigh.) Anthony> Also, I'm interested in changing some behaviors that I find Anthony> frustrating (line wrapping with the \ at the end, for Anthony> instance, Which issue are you referring to? When you're typing new text, if it doesn't wrap, you need to turn on "auto-fill-mode". When you're viewing existing text (e.g., a nice wide log file output), you can have emacs either wrap the text (the default), or have it "truncate" the lines (by setting the variable "truncate-lines" to "t"). If you get the horizontal scroll bar, that's great; otherwise, you need to use "C-x >" and "C-x <" to move left or right. Anthony> the tendency for it to use spaces instead of tabs for Anthony> indenting Take a look at the variable "indent-tabs-mode": | `indent-tabs-mode' is a built-in boolean variable. | | Value: nil | | This value is specific to the current buffer. | | Documentation: | *Indentation can insert tabs if this is non-nil. | Setting this variable automatically makes it local to the current buffer. That last blurb at the bottom means that, if you want to use tabs whenever possible, you have to do something a bit fancy in your .emacs: (setq-default indent-tabs-mode t) (Normally, you can just use "setq"; since that makes the value change only in that buffer, it means that your .emacs buffer has that change, but everywhere else that variable is still "nil".) Added in this version of the e-mail: Here's a link to a nice roundup of the arguments for and against tabs vs. spaces, as well as some emacs-lisp configuration bits for controlling it. http://www.jwz.org/doc/tabs-vs-spaces.html t. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human.