From msteele at toppanelectronics.com Mon Dec 2 12:10:20 2002 From: msteele at toppanelectronics.com (Mark Steele) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Still fighting: "Please help me upload a binary file through a CG I script" Message-ID: Hi all, Over the weekend I tried the script on my home Linux system, worked. I tried it on my hosted Linux site, worked fine too. However, this is what I get at work: [Mon Dec 02 09:53:55 2002] [error] [client 192.1.1.209] Premature end of script headers: /opt/apache2/lib/cgi-bin/upload.cgi, referer: http://89.80.89.13/cgi-bin/upload.cgi [Mon Dec 02 09:53:55 2002] [error] [client 192.1.1.209] CGI.pm: Server closed socket during multipart read (client aborted?)., referer: http://89.80.89.13/cgi-bin/upload.cgi The script will upload text files fine, it only barfs when I try an Excel (or any other binary) file. I'm using: Apache 2.0.35, Perl 5.6.1, CGI.pm 2.88 HP-UX 10.2 The browser is IE on WIN 95... Any ideas? Mark -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: upload.cgi Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1313 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20021202/d33230e4/upload.obj From rkleeman at energoncube.net Mon Dec 2 19:05:23 2002 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Missing Manuals Message-ID: <20021203010523.GF2547@devastator.energoncube.net> ~sdpm~ Fellow Perl Mongers, At the last meeting some manuals were taken from TTR. The manuals were labeled as 'Intermediate Perl Programming' and should have been sitting under the projector. If anyone saw them, please speak up. If anyone took them, please let me know. The fine folks at TTR would like their manuals back. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From msteele at toppanelectronics.com Tue Dec 3 11:15:49 2002 From: msteele at toppanelectronics.com (Mark Steele) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Missing Manuals Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I was at the last meeting (the guy who was asking all the XML questions) and I brought a friend (his first meeting). Walked by the projector, didn't notice the book but then again weren't looking for it either. I remember all of us talking about the resolution of the projector but didn't see anyone picking up a book. I would sure hate to think anyone at that meeting would take a book, hell, most of those people could WRITE an 'Intermediate Perl Programming' book on their own... Mark > ~sdpm~ > Fellow Perl Mongers, > > At the last meeting some manuals were taken from TTR. The > manuals were > labeled as 'Intermediate Perl Programming' and should have > been sitting > under the projector. If anyone saw them, please speak up. > If anyone took > them, please let me know. The fine folks at TTR would like > their manuals > back. > ~sdpm~ ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Kamal.Ahmed at spirentcom.com Sat Dec 7 03:52:11 2002 From: Kamal.Ahmed at spirentcom.com (Ahmed, Kamal) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Off Topic Message-ID: <7B8BB6E70356D511AEAB0060CF205ED906620777@python.hekimian.com> ~sdpm~ Dear Chris, Its very off topic, but I would like to know if there are any Job opportunities in your area. Since I am being laid off due to down sizing. Briefly, My expertise is in the following areas: Hardware: Spread Spectrum Modems, FLM150, DDM2000, Cisco 1600, Cisco 6500, Lucent CBX500, Teleglobe Routers. Systems: Windows 95/98, Windows NT, VMS, Ultrix, Sco Unix, AIX. Languages: C/C++, C/Korn/Bourne Shell, Perl, Aspect, Tcl, Java, Java Script, UML, and Pascal. Databases: Objectivity, MS Access. Applications: Office 97, Mimic (SNMP Simulator), DeriveIt (TL1 Simulator), MGSoft (SNMP MIB Compiler/Browser), Rational Rose, DDTS, TerraSat 200 (TDM/TDMA VSAT Satellite HUB), BRASS, WinRunner (Mercury Soft), Brio EDUCATION * M.S. in Software Engineering, Johns Hopkins University, MD, (1998-current) Thanks, Kamal. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at fentin.com Mon Dec 9 00:20:01 2002 From: joel at fentin.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button Message-ID: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01> ~sdpm~ The HTML version of this program works perfectly. I was hoping for a perl version. =================================== #!/perl/bin/perl -w use CGI;my $co = new CGI; print $co->header, $co->start_html(-title=>'JS4.pl'); # #START JAVASCRIPT------------------------------ print ''; #END JAVASCRIPT-------------------------------- print $co->start_form(-name=>'form1'); print $co->submit(-name=>'Back1', -value=>'GoBack1', -onclick=>'GoBack1()'); print $co->submit(-name=>'Back2', -value=>'GoBack2', -onclick=>'GoBack2("javascrip t:history.back(1)")'); print $co->end_form(),$co->end_html; # -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: http://fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Mon Dec 9 12:06:09 2002 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button In-Reply-To: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01> References: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01> Message-ID: <20021209180609.GB17102@devastator.energoncube.net> ~sdpm~ What do you mean a "perl version"? Do you want the Javascript to be rewritten as perl? Unfortunately that cannot be done. On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 10:20:01PM -0800, Joel Fentin wrote: > ~sdpm~ > The HTML version of this program works perfectly. I was hoping for a perl > version. > =================================== > #!/perl/bin/perl -w > > use CGI;my $co = new CGI; > > print $co->header, > $co->start_html(-title=>'JS4.pl'); # > > #START JAVASCRIPT------------------------------ > print ''; > #END JAVASCRIPT-------------------------------- > print $co->start_form(-name=>'form1'); > print $co->submit(-name=>'Back1', -value=>'GoBack1', -onclick=>'GoBack1()'); > print > $co->submit(-name=>'Back2', -value=>'GoBack2', -onclick=>'GoBack2("javascrip > t:history.back(1)")'); > print $co->end_form(),$co->end_html; # > > -- > Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 > > email: joel@fentin.com web: http://fentin.com > > > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From dgwilson at gtemail.net Mon Dec 9 18:51:22 2002 From: dgwilson at gtemail.net (Douglas Wilson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button Message-ID: <20021210005122.18396.qmail@verizonmail.com> ~sdpm~ From: "Joel Fentin" > The HTML version of this program works perfectly. I was hoping for a perl > version. The history functionality is not HTML. Its JavaScript, and its executed in the browser, which is in most browsers out there (for better or worse). There's a PerlScript browser plugin available (from ActiveState, I think?), but you're not likely to come across too many browsers with that installed, so it is usually not a viable solution. -- _______________________________________________ Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143 ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at fentin.com Mon Dec 9 21:54:31 2002 From: joel at fentin.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) References: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01> <20021209180609.GB17102@devastator.energoncube.net> Message-ID: <000701c29fff$e316e300$15833f42@6540q01> ~sdpm~ I finally solved my own problem of a back button in perl. Is there any reason why I should not use it? =========== #!/perl/bin/perl -w use CGI;my $co = new CGI; print $co->header, $co->start_html ( -title=>'JS7.pl', -script=> { -language=>'JavaScript', -code=>'function GoBack(){history.go(-1)}' } ); print $co->submit(-name=>'GoBack', -value=>'Go Back', -onclick=>'GoBack()'); print $co->end_form(),$co->end_html; -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: http://fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Tue Dec 10 02:31:28 2002 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) In-Reply-To: <000701c29fff$e316e300$15833f42@6540q01> References: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01> <20021209180609.GB17102@devastator.energoncube.net> <000701c29fff$e316e300$15833f42@6540q01> Message-ID: <868yyyuvfj.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> ~sdpm~ >>>>> "Joel" == Joel Fentin writes: Joel> I finally solved my own problem of a back button in perl. Joel> Is there any reason why I should not use it? Uh, it doesn't do a thing in my JavaScript-disabled browser? Uh, it's insulting to people who know there's a "back" button on the main bar or menu? Uh, What was your question again? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at fentin.com Tue Dec 10 22:49:26 2002 From: joel at fentin.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) References: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01><20021209180609.GB17102@devastator.energoncube.net><000701c29fff$e316e300$15833f42@6540q01> <868yyyuvfj.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <000501c2a0d1$50b5dca0$38833f42@6540q01> ~sdpm~ > >>>>> "Joel" == Joel Fentin writes: > > Joel> I finally solved my own problem of a back button in perl. > Joel> Is there any reason why I should not use it? > > Uh, it doesn't do a thing in my JavaScript-disabled browser? > > Uh, it's insulting to people who know there's a "back" button > on the main bar or menu? > > Uh, What was your question again? Thank you for ridiculing my efforts to understand what is at work here. =================== Further experimenting has shown me that the back button (in a perl script) only works if the code for the submit button is not in a form. If it's between
&
or under a line like: print $co->start_form(); it won't work. This is the case with Internet Explorer. That probably means it won't work at all with Netscape. -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: http://fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From menolly at mib.org Wed Dec 11 00:19:53 2002 From: menolly at mib.org (Menolly) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.)\ In-Reply-To: <000501c2a0d1$50b5dca0$38833f42@6540q01> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Joel Fentin wrote: > Thank you for ridiculing my efforts to understand what is at work here. If you want to understand it, ask on a javascript list, because that's what you're writing. -- )\._.,--....,'``. | menolly@mib.org /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. | http://www.livejournal.com/~nolly/ `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' fL| Paranoid Cynical Optimist ----------------------------------------------------------------- You would fear me less if you knew me better. --from "The Great Green Worm", by Marie-Catherine D'Aulnoy, tr. A.S. Byatt ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Wed Dec 11 13:08:23 2002 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (CA) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) In-Reply-To: <000501c2a0d1$50b5dca0$38833f42@6540q01> References: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01><20021209180609.GB17102@devastator.e nergoncube.net><000701c29fff$e316e300$15833f42@6540q01> <868yyyuvfj.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> <000501c2a0d1$50b5dca0$38833f42@6540q01> Message-ID: <1039633703.1093.3.camel@vespa> ~sdpm~ On Tue, 2002-12-10 at 20:49, Joel Fentin wrote: > Randal... > > "Joel" == Joel Fentin writes: > > Joel> Is there any reason why I should not use it? > > > > Uh, it doesn't do a thing in my JavaScript-disabled browser? > > > > Uh, it's insulting to people who know there's a "back" button > > on the main bar or menu? > > > > Uh, What was your question again? > > Thank you for ridiculing my efforts to understand what is at work here. Um, you asked the list a direct question and feel ridiculed when it is answered very clearly? CA -- ...someday maybe ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Dec 11 16:39:26 2002 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) In-Reply-To: <1039633703.1093.3.camel@vespa> References: <000501c29f4b$e364e8c0$97813f42@6540q01> <20021209180609.GB17102@devastator.e nergoncube.net> <000701c29fff$e316e300$15833f42@6540q01> <868yyyuvfj.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> <000501c2a0d1$50b5dca0$38833f42@6540q01> <1039633703.1093.3.camel@vespa> Message-ID: <86k7igp4dd.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> ~sdpm~ >>>>> "CA" == CA writes: CA> Um, you asked the list a direct question and feel ridiculed when it is CA> answered very clearly? Exactly. 1: it's not a Perl question, it's a javascript question 2: if "javascript" is the answer, you asked the wrong question 3: more and more people *every day* have javascript disabled 4: many corporate websites filter javascript at the DMZ, preventing such code from working 5: I'm smart enough to notice I have a "back" button, thank you. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joe at artlung.com Wed Dec 11 17:02:41 2002 From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) In-Reply-To: <86k7igp4dd.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 11 Dec 2002, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > 1: it's not a Perl question, it's a javascript question > > 2: if "javascript" is the answer, you asked the wrong question JavaScript and other client side technologies should not be discounted whole-cloth. The server-side technologies and the client-side ones can live and work well together, ya know. :-) > 3: more and more people *every day* have javascript disabled And yet, many web-based applications are built to be targeted to a certain core set of browsers installed across a corporate environement - and often one can presume that JavaScript is enabled. JavaScript / Jscript / ECMAScript client-side languages most certainly have a place in web applications. They work best when implemented well with server-side technologies. > 4: many corporate websites filter javascript at the DMZ, preventing > such code from working This does happen, and presumably, a responsible web author is aware or not aware of his or her audience, and knows if this is the case for /their/ audience. Presuming that because /generally/ some people are unable to use JavaScript, that JavaScript should /never/ be used seems to me a logical leap that makes no sense. > 5: I'm smart enough to notice I have a "back" button, thank you. Of course you are. Ane yet, there are times when JavaScript based forward and back buttons can create a nice and simple interface. For example in a serial "wizard" type application JavaScript can be handy. It all depends on the UI framework, and how usable it is. That said, yes, for debugging JavaScript, it's better to debug the resultant HTML and JavaScript rather than debug the perl that generates it. Figure out what you want your html to be, and adjust your perl code accordingly. Just thought I'd toss my client-side centric thoughts in there. Not meaning to flame or defend anyone in particular. Cheers, Joe -- Joe Crawford, web journeyman. San Diego Calif. USA http://artlung.com/ .............||||||||||||||||| latest thought: http://artlung.com/blog/ ............||||||||||||||| san diego web folk: http://websandiego.org/ ...........||||||| san diego bloggers: http://websandiego.org/bloggers/ ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From menolly at mib.org Wed Dec 11 17:33:20 2002 From: menolly at mib.org (Menolly) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Joe Crawford wrote: > On 11 Dec 2002, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > > 4: many corporate websites filter javascript at the DMZ, preventing > > such code from working > > This does happen, and presumably, a responsible web author is aware or not > aware of his or her audience, and knows if this is the case for /their/ > audience. Presuming that because /generally/ some people are unable to use > JavaScript, that JavaScript should /never/ be used seems to me a logical > leap that makes no sense. For a more complete argument against the use of JavaScript, try http://www.rahul.net/aahz/javascript.html > > 5: I'm smart enough to notice I have a "back" button, thank you. > > Of course you are. Ane yet, there are times when JavaScript based forward > and back buttons can create a nice and simple interface. For example in a > serial "wizard" type application JavaScript can be handy. It all depends > on the UI framework, and how usable it is. "history(-1)" is pretty much never the right answer. It's the lazy answer. Are you positive you know where the user came from? In a highly controlled web-based application with tight access controls, maybe you are. So send them there directly. If not, what's the point? Someone on a board I frequent posted a link to an outfit in a catalog the other day. I cut'n'pasted the link to my browser. It was just the photo, with no details. I was curious about it, so I clicked the back link. Which took me to the previous site I'd been looking at, not into the catalog as I'd hoped. Utterly useless. -- )\._.,--....,'``. | menolly@mib.org /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. | http://www.livejournal.com/~nolly/ `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' fL| Paranoid Cynical Optimist ----------------------------------------------------------------- You would fear me less if you knew me better. --from "The Great Green Worm", by Marie-Catherine D'Aulnoy, tr. A.S. Byatt ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joe at artlung.com Wed Dec 11 17:54:57 2002 From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:41 2004 Subject: Back button (I did it.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Menolly wrote: > For a more complete argument against the use of JavaScript, try > http://www.rahul.net/aahz/javascript.html Actually, that page seems to be more about not using JavaScript stupidly. It takes skill to do properly. I agree with many of the arguments on that page. But it doesn't throw out the baby with the bathwater, eh? > "history(-1)" is pretty much never the right answer. It's the lazy > answer. Are you positive you know where the user came from? In a > highly controlled web-based application with tight access controls, > maybe you are. So send them there directly. If not, what's the point? > Someone on a board I frequent posted a link to an outfit in a catalog > the other day. I cut'n'pasted the link to my browser. It was just the > photo, with no details. I was curious about it, so I clicked the back > link. Which took me to the previous site I'd been looking at, not into > the catalog as I'd hoped. Utterly useless. You've described a stupid use of the technology, and worse, badly implemented. I am now thinking of a use of history that was quite useful. I designed a GUI front end for a web application which did some very server-intensive computation - because of the volume of data and calculations the programmers needed a "waiting" page, which was in place until the results were ready, it then loaded the results. The "back" button in this case would cause lots of problems, essentially reloading a POSTed web request. Whoops. The solution I came up with was to invoke a history.go(-2) which took the user back to their original form data, so they could change the parameters for the computation. Because that history.go lived on the client side the server is saved a hit, and the responsiveness of that "back" command worked fast. This worked quite well, the client loved it, the application seemed faster to the user, and it was NOT utterly useless. So that's my example of using JavaScript in a way that was useful. The GUI itself was also very JavaScript intensive to allow for a rich interaction with reams of data (reams of data with multiple, hierarchical