From pdetagyos at home.com Sat Oct 13 19:31:58 2001 From: pdetagyos at home.com (Peter C. de Tagyos) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: Perl/Apache Alternative to IIS/ASP Message-ID: <001001c15447$a27ee180$6f01a8c0@JAFAR> ~sdpm~ Hey all. I am pretty new to Perl, having primarily experience with MS platforms and products. Currently, I use IIS/ASP/COM+/SQL Server to construct e-commerce web sites. I wish to get away from the MS solution, for a multitude of reasons, and I am looking into how I might do this. Replacing IIS with Apache is pretty straightforward, and using PHP or perl_mod instead of ASP is also a pretty easy transition. However, I cannot seem to figure out what would be the Perl equivalent of my business objects running in COM+. Right now, the sites I develop are 3-tier, with the web boxes running IIS/ASP, the biz boxes running objects in COM+, and the DB server running SQL2000. This setup is nice because I can support several web boxes with the sole biz box and DB box. From all that I have read, the Perl alternative seems to advocate putting Apache and the Perl business modules all on one box, with perhaps a DB hosted on another box. This doesn't seem to be decoupled enough. So I guess what I am really asking, is how do I build a multi-tier system using Apache, Perl, and other open-source products? If such systems aren't necessary, why not? I would appreciate any advice. I have looked on several Perl websites, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of guide or whitepaper for moving from a MS solution to an open-source one. I think that such a document would be very helpful- for developers interested in transitioning, and for the pointy-haired bosses they are trying to convince. Perhaps I will write such a thing once I figure it all out. :) Thanks! Peter ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Sat Oct 13 20:24:50 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: Perl/Apache Alternative to IIS/ASP Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I would say the most popular way to implement perl remote objects is SOAP, using something like SOAP::Lite (http://www.soaplite.com)... the great thing about using SOAP is the fact that you have some platform choice still, so heaven forbid you have to start interoperating with MS systems/languages, you'll still be able. :) Anthony - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 >>> "Peter C. de Tagyos" 10/13/01 05:31PM >>> ~sdpm~ Hey all. I am pretty new to Perl, having primarily experience with MS platforms and products. Currently, I use IIS/ASP/COM+/SQL Server to construct e-commerce web sites. I wish to get away from the MS solution, for a multitude of reasons, and I am looking into how I might do this. Replacing IIS with Apache is pretty straightforward, and using PHP or perl_mod instead of ASP is also a pretty easy transition. However, I cannot seem to figure out what would be the Perl equivalent of my business objects running in COM+. Right now, the sites I develop are 3-tier, with the web boxes running IIS/ASP, the biz boxes running objects in COM+, and the DB server running SQL2000. This setup is nice because I can support several web boxes with the sole biz box and DB box. From all that I have read, the Perl alternative seems to advocate putting Apache and the Perl business modules all on one box, with perhaps a DB hosted on another box. This doesn't seem to be decoupled enough. So I guess what I am really asking, is how do I build a multi-tier system using Apache, Perl, and other open-source products? If such systems aren't necessary, why not? I would appreciate any advice. I have looked on several Perl websites, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of guide or whitepaper for moving from a MS solution to an open-source one. I think that such a document would be very helpful- for developers interested in transitioning, and for the pointy-haired bosses they are trying to convince. Perhaps I will write such a thing once I figure it all out. :) Thanks! Peter ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cchapin at duckpond.org Sat Oct 13 20:37:55 2001 From: cchapin at duckpond.org (Christopher 'Ducky' Chapin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: Perl/Apache Alternative to IIS/ASP In-Reply-To: <001001c15447$a27ee180$6f01a8c0@JAFAR> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I believe perl would give you a better library to work from than PHP. PHP has a lot of web-based drop-ins, but if you really want to build something, you have to write it yourself - perl is just better for that. I'd suggest having a look at something like embperl (http://perl.apache.org/embperl) or Mason (http://masonhq.com). Both are built for embedding perl into html pages. I prefer Mason, it made more sense to me first. =) As far as transitioning, sorry I can't offer much help there. =/ -Chris On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, Peter C. de Tagyos wrote: > ~sdpm~ > Hey all. > > I am pretty new to Perl, having primarily experience with MS platforms and > products. Currently, I use IIS/ASP/COM+/SQL Server to construct e-commerce > web sites. I wish to get away from the MS solution, for a multitude of > reasons, and I am looking into how I might do this. > > Replacing IIS with Apache is pretty straightforward, and using PHP or > perl_mod instead of ASP is also a pretty easy transition. However, I cannot > seem to figure out what would be the Perl equivalent of my business objects > running in COM+. Right now, the sites I develop are 3-tier, with the web > boxes running IIS/ASP, the biz boxes running objects in COM+, and the DB > server running SQL2000. This setup is nice because I can support several > web boxes with the sole biz box and DB box. From all that I have read, the > Perl alternative seems to advocate putting Apache and the Perl business > modules all on one box, with perhaps a DB hosted on another box. This > doesn't seem to be decoupled enough. > > So I guess what I am really asking, is how do I build a multi-tier system > using Apache, Perl, and other open-source products? If such systems aren't > necessary, why not? > > I would appreciate any advice. I have looked on several Perl websites, and > there doesn't seem to be any sort of guide or whitepaper for moving from a > MS solution to an open-source one. I think that such a document would be > very helpful- for developers interested in transitioning, and for the > pointy-haired bosses they are trying to convince. Perhaps I will write such > a thing once I figure it all out. :) > > Thanks! > > Peter > > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From pdetagyos at home.com Sat Oct 13 22:45:45 2001 From: pdetagyos at home.com (Peter C. de Tagyos) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: Perl/Apache Alternative to IIS/ASP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c15462$b57f46b0$6f01a8c0@JAFAR> ~sdpm~ Yeah, at this point I am leaning more towards Perl than PHP. I have also been reading up on the Zope system, which looks interesting, but it seems like you have to learn all about their object architecture and API. I would rather use something like Perl, and use various modules that wrap DB connections and the like. That way, you do everything in Perl. Mason does look interesting. I will need to read up more on that. Thanks for the reply. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-san-diego-pm-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-san-diego-pm-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Christopher 'Ducky' Chapin Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 6:38 PM To: Peter C. de Tagyos Cc: san-diego-pm-list@pm.org Subject: Re: Perl/Apache Alternative to IIS/ASP ~sdpm~ I believe perl would give you a better library to work from than PHP. PHP has a lot of web-based drop-ins, but if you really want to build something, you have to write it yourself - perl is just better for that. I'd suggest having a look at something like embperl (http://perl.apache.org/embperl) or Mason (http://masonhq.com). Both are built for embedding perl into html pages. I prefer Mason, it made more sense to me first. =) As far as transitioning, sorry I can't offer much help there. =/ -Chris On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, Peter C. de Tagyos wrote: > ~sdpm~ > Hey all. > > I am pretty new to Perl, having primarily experience with MS platforms and > products. Currently, I use IIS/ASP/COM+/SQL Server to construct e-commerce > web sites. I wish to get away from the MS solution, for a multitude of > reasons, and I am looking into how I might do this. > > Replacing IIS with Apache is pretty straightforward, and using PHP or > perl_mod instead of ASP is also a pretty easy transition. However, I cannot > seem to figure out what would be the Perl equivalent of my business objects > running in COM+. Right now, the sites I develop are 3-tier, with the web > boxes running IIS/ASP, the biz boxes running objects in COM+, and the DB > server running SQL2000. This setup is nice because I can support several > web boxes with the sole biz box and DB box. From all that I have read, the > Perl alternative seems to advocate putting Apache and the Perl business > modules all on one box, with perhaps a DB hosted on another box. This > doesn't seem to be decoupled enough. > > So I guess what I am really asking, is how do I build a multi-tier system > using Apache, Perl, and other open-source products? If such systems aren't > necessary, why not? > > I would appreciate any advice. I have looked on several Perl websites, and > there doesn't seem to be any sort of guide or whitepaper for moving from a > MS solution to an open-source one. I think that such a document would be > very helpful- for developers interested in transitioning, and for the > pointy-haired bosses they are trying to convince. Perhaps I will write such > a thing once I figure it all out. :) > > Thanks! > > Peter > > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Sun Oct 14 12:49:48 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: Perl/Apache Alternative to IIS/ASP References: <001001c15447$a27ee180$6f01a8c0@JAFAR> Message-ID: <3BC9D03C.8010705@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Peter C. de Tagyos wrote: > So I guess what I am really asking, is how do I build a multi-tier > system using Apache, Perl, and other open-source products? If such > systems aren't necessary, why not? > If you're looking for a multi-tier system with business logic separate from Web serving, you should take a look at FastCGI. (www.fastcgi.com) It allows Apache to execute persistent processes on remote machines with the same (or greater) performance as mod_perl. You can set up either tier as a single machine or a cluster, with the database on one of the biz machines or on a separate machine. For better abstraction with business objects, you can also implement a SOAP layer behind your rendering layer, similar to your current COM+ layer. This also allows objects to be designed in other languages (I use it to access Java servlets) if the need arises. You could even integrate business partners with the same subsystem. I've written a bit about FastCGI at http://www.globalspin.com/thebook/chapter10.html and a bit about SOAP at http://www.globalspin.com/thebook/chapter18.html -- I'd be happy to give specific recommendations on how to set such a system up. (I use them all the time at work.) Done right, it can be a flexible system that's easy to develop. Cheers, ~chris ps- One other note; you can expect to see considerably better performance out of your Apache/FastCGI/Perl/SOAP setup than your IIS/ISAPI/ASP/COM+ setup. Keep that in mind when drawing up specs. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Tue Oct 16 13:39:06 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: mtg References: <001001c15447$a27ee180$6f01a8c0@JAFAR> <3.0.4.32.20011016103308.007ae700@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <3BCC7ECA.9060202@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ http://sandiego.pm.org/ seems to be working. I'll try the mailing list next. I'll be at the meeting tomorrow, even if no one else is. :) Topics for the adventurous include SOAP/WSDL/Web services, FastCGI and clustering, and how to make Perl and Java get along. Oh, and I'll bring a copy of my book to show off. :) Cheers, ~chris Joel Fentin wrote: > I can't seem to connect to the list. > Is san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org dead? > Is san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org better? > > Is there a meeting tomorrow? > > -- > Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 > > email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at cts.com Tue Oct 16 14:29:31 2001 From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: Open 2nd window w/o clickable link In-Reply-To: <3BCC7ECA.9060202@velocigen.com> References: <001001c15447$a27ee180$6f01a8c0@JAFAR> <3.0.4.32.20011016103308.007ae700@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.20011016122931.007daad0@crash.cts.com> ~sdpm~ I want to display a web page and then open another window and display another page. I Know how to do this with a clickable link, but not so that it does it by itself. -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Tue Oct 16 14:44:32 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: mtg In-Reply-To: <3BCC7ECA.9060202@velocigen.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Oh yeah, I almost forgot to remind everyone. Thanks Chris. Also, as a bonus, there will be some books given away. The books were donated by San Diego Technical Books, and I believe Perl for the Web is one of them. I was going to try to move the meeting to a new location, but since I haven't announced that in time, we will meet at the same time & place. On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > ~sdpm~ > http://sandiego.pm.org/ seems to be working. I'll try the mailing list next. > > I'll be at the meeting tomorrow, even if no one else is. :) Topics for > the adventurous include SOAP/WSDL/Web services, FastCGI and clustering, > and how to make Perl and Java get along. > > Oh, and I'll bring a copy of my book to show off. :) > > Cheers, > ~chris > > Joel Fentin wrote: > > > I can't seem to connect to the list. > > Is san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org dead? > > Is san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org better? > > > > Is there a meeting tomorrow? > > > > -- > > Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 > > > > email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com > > > > > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From dan at 2-bit.com Tue Oct 16 15:04:51 2001 From: dan at 2-bit.com (rinzeldanrinzel) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:27 2004 Subject: Open 2nd window w/o clickable link In-Reply-To: <3.0.4.32.20011016122931.007daad0@crash.cts.com> References: <3BCC7ECA.9060202@velocigen.com> Message-ID: <3BCC5AA3.17189.4F038EE@localhost> ~sdpm~ >From Joel Fentin's message on 16 Oct 2001 about Open 2nd window w/o clickable link: Joel: This is not a perl question, but a javascript question. Google for javascript popup ad scripts if you want to do this, or look for pages that do what you want and look at their source code. -Dan (not in San Diego yet, but on my way) Rinzel > ~sdpm~ > I want to display a web page and then open another window and > display > another page. I Know how to do this with a clickable link, but > not so that > it does it by itself. > > > -- > Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 > > email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the > following command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to > . This is the general > rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. > > Dan Rinzel, 2-bit Idea Mill Consulting, LLC {-_-} dan@2-bit.com {-_-} http://2-bit.com {-_-} Web Data Systems Development, Site Design, Domain Hosting Let us hold our distinction to be between civilized people and barbarians, not between Muslims and Christians, or between European and Arab Americans ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Tue Oct 16 15:19:39 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: mtg References: Message-ID: <3BCC965B.6000109@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Oh, one other note: I vaguely remember loaning my notes from the "Advanced Object-Oriented Perl" talk to someone. Of course, I don't remember who it was. :) Would that person please e-mail me, or possibly bring the notes to the meeting tomorrow? It turned out to be my only copy. Thanks! ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chuckphillips at mac.com Tue Oct 16 15:57:08 2001 From: chuckphillips at mac.com (Chuck Phillips) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Fwd: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs Message-ID: <5CB37486-C278-11D5-9727-003065555948@mac.com> ~sdpm~ I sent this yesterday and I don't think it went through: > Hello all, > > Quick question: > How would I do the following and ditch the "no strict 'refs'" line? > Thanks, > Chuck > -------- > #!/usr/bin/perl > use strict; > my $command = $ARGV[0]; > > no strict 'refs'; > if ($command) { > &$command; > exit; > } > > sub say_hello { > print "hello\n"; > } > > sub AUTOLOAD { > print "Invalid Sub\n"; exit; > } > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Tue Oct 16 16:16:46 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Fwd: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs References: <5CB37486-C278-11D5-9727-003065555948@mac.com> Message-ID: <3BCCA3BE.2000309@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ I'm not sure if it gains you anything, but this will work: #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; my $command = $ARGV[0]; if ($command) { eval "${command}()"; exit; } sub say_hello { print "hello\n"; } sub AUTOLOAD { print "Invalid Sub\n"; exit; } The eval gets around the strict 'subs' pragma, but it's not liable to gain any performance. Cheers, ~chris Chuck Phillips wrote: >> >> Quick question: >> How would I do the following and ditch the "no strict 'refs'" line? >> -------- >> #!/usr/bin/perl >> use strict; >> my $command = $ARGV[0]; >> >> no strict 'refs'; >> if ($command) { >> &$command; >> exit; >> } >> >> sub say_hello { >> print "hello\n"; >> } >> >> sub AUTOLOAD { >> print "Invalid Sub\n"; exit; >> } >> > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Tue Oct 16 16:37:36 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDB1@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ > > How would I do the following and ditch the "no strict 'refs'" line? > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > > my $command = $ARGV[0]; > > > > no strict 'refs'; > > if ($command) { > > &$command; > > exit; > > } > > > > sub say_hello { > > print "hello\n"; > > } > > > > sub AUTOLOAD { > > print "Invalid Sub\n"; exit; > > } First if you were going to use "no strict 'refs'", it should go inside the 'if' block so that it has as little scope as possible. Second, depending on whether you want to restrict what functions can be run or not, you could create a subroutine dispatch like so: my %subs = ( say_hello=> \&say_hello, .... ); if (my $cmd = $subs{$ARGV[0]}) { $cmd->(); } else { warn "Can't execute $ARGV[0]\n"; } HTH, -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Tue Oct 16 16:39:29 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Fwd: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs In-Reply-To: <5CB37486-C278-11D5-9727-003065555948@mac.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ You could try this: use strict; my %SUB_HASH = ( say_hello => \&say_hello ); my $command = shift @ARGV; if (my $sub = $SUB_HASH{$command}) { $sub->() } else { print "Invalid sub $command\n" } sub say_hello { print "Hello\n" } On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Chuck Phillips wrote: > ~sdpm~ > I sent this yesterday and I don't think it went through: > > > Hello all, > > > > Quick question: > > How would I do the following and ditch the "no strict 'refs'" line? > > Thanks, > > Chuck > > -------- > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > > my $command = $ARGV[0]; > > > > no strict 'refs'; > > if ($command) { > > &$command; > > exit; > > } > > > > sub say_hello { > > print "hello\n"; > > } > > > > sub AUTOLOAD { > > print "Invalid Sub\n"; exit; > > } > > > > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Tue Oct 16 17:33:56 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Fwd: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDB2@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ > >> no strict 'refs'; > >> if ($command) { > >> &$command; > >> exit; > >> } > >> > >> sub say_hello { > >> print "hello\n"; > >> } This just occured to me... You could turn it into a method call: # Assuming its in the main package # Though the first arg to command is now "main" main->$command(); -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chuckphillips at mac.com Tue Oct 16 17:38:00 2001 From: chuckphillips at mac.com (Chuck Phillips) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs In-Reply-To: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDB2@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> Message-ID: <73DB7ED0-C286-11D5-9727-003065555948@mac.com> ~sdpm~ Perfect! Thanks for your help everyone! Hope to make it out tomorrow night. On Tuesday, October 16, 2001, at 03:33 PM, Wilson, Doug wrote: > >>>> no strict 'refs'; >>>> if ($command) { >>>> &$command; >>>> exit; >>>> } >>>> >>>> sub say_hello { >>>> print "hello\n"; >>>> } > > This just occured to me... > You could turn it into a method call: > > # Assuming its in the main package > # Though the first arg to command is now "main" > main->$command(); > > -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at cts.com Tue Oct 16 18:26:18 2001 From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Open 2nd window w/o clickable link In-Reply-To: <3BCC5AA3.17189.4F038EE@localhost> References: <3.0.4.32.20011016122931.007daad0@crash.cts.com> <3BCC7ECA.9060202@velocigen.com> Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.20011016162618.007aba90@crash.cts.com> ~sdpm~ At 04:04 PM 10/16/01 -0400, rinzeldanrinzel wrote: >>From Joel Fentin's message on 16 Oct 2001 about Open 2nd window w/o clickable link: > >Joel: > >This is not a perl question, but a javascript question. >Google for javascript popup ad scripts if you want to do this, or >look for pages that do what you want and look at their source >code. I assure you, I looked all over the place before asking this question. Using a link, I can do it as follows in perl without javascript: print "test"; Are you sure there is no perl way without a link? -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at cts.com Tue Oct 16 19:05:10 2001 From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Web question Message-ID: <001a01c1569f$63db74c0$754b5ecc@6540q01> ~sdpm~ An html script has frames and a submit button. When the submit button is clicked, my perl script is run. It displays what I want it to display, but only within a frame. How do I get rid of the frame stuff without opening another window? -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joe at artlung.com Tue Oct 16 19:11:25 2001 From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Web question In-Reply-To: <001a01c1569f$63db74c0$754b5ecc@6540q01> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Joel Fentin wrote: > An html script has frames and a submit button. When the submit button is > clicked, my perl script is run. It displays what I want it to display, but > only within a frame. How do I get rid of the frame stuff without opening > another window? In the
tag include the target attribute, and set it to "_top" so: See also: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#h-6.16 This will keep you in the same window, but override all existing frames. HTH, Joe -- ........... Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web .... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com .... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org .... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Wed Oct 17 12:25:46 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Fwd: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs References: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDB2@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> Message-ID: <3BCDBF1A.3000300@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Wilson, Doug wrote: > This just occured to me... > You could turn it into a method call: > > # Assuming its in the main package > # Though the first arg to command is now "main" > main->$command(); > There's one caveat to this style. It'll break if this code is ever evaluated in a package other than main, so it should be avoided in a mod_perl or other Web server context. It's fine in a defined package, but in that case it's probably better to go full OO and use $self, where $self is set to either the package name or an object blessed into that package/class. Cheers, ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Wed Oct 17 12:48:57 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Fwd: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDB5@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ > There's one caveat to this style. It'll break if this code is ever > evaluated in a package other than main, so it should be avoided in a > mod_perl or other Web server context. Yeah its not very good OO-style, but it is similar to the File::Spec module (and there are complaints about that module's style, which is why another module was written in a functional style). You put all the functions in a package, say 'MyPackage', then all calls are made like: MyPackage->function_name(@args) or in this case: MyPackage->$command And in an Apache::Registry script mod_perl environment, I like to put functions off in their own module anyway, so you don't end up with those 'function redefined' warnings when just the main script changes, or those 'variable won't stay shared' warnings when subroutines use closures or globals etc. -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Wed Oct 17 13:32:40 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Fwd: using a subroutine ref w/ strict refs References: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDB5@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> Message-ID: <3BCDCEC8.10209@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Wilson, Doug wrote: > And in an Apache::Registry script mod_perl environment, I like to put > functions off in their own module anyway, so you don't end up with > those 'function redefined' warnings when just the main script changes, or > those 'variable won't stay shared' warnings when subroutines use > closures or globals etc. > Straying to a tangent, I recently found out that 'function redefined' warnings (previously the bane of my existence) can be shut off by using: use warnings; no warnings qw(redefine); There are tons of similar options listed in the Camel (3rd ed) under the Pragmatic Modules section. (Oddly enough, that section is mislabeled "Modules" in my copy's thumb-index, while "Standard Modules" is mislabeled "Pragmata." Has anyone else noticed the same?) Cheers, ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From eugene at securityarchitects.com Thu Oct 18 04:22:00 2001 From: eugene at securityarchitects.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Building a Large-scale E-commerce Site with Apache and mod_perl Message-ID: <20011018022200.D24905@securityarchitects.com> ~sdpm~ http://perl.com/pub/a/2001/10/17/etoys.html ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Thu Oct 18 15:49:58 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Meeting notes Message-ID: <3BCF4076.4050402@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Hi Mongers, A few notes from Wednesday's meeting: - Simple Perl databases were discussed. What's the best way to implement a very simple database with Perl? MySQL and PostgreSQL were recommended, as was Alzabo, an OO data-modelling tool. - Yes, we are still selling TPC5 t-shirts. Does anyone remember the URL for the CafePress store? Is anyone eager to start designs for TPC6? :) - Bob has some Perl books to give away at the next meeting, courtesy of San Diego Technical Books. Unfortunately, one of them is "Perl for the Web". There is no escape. - Console (http://www.console.net/) is hiring Perl developers with SQL and Apache experience. They're also looking for a system administrator. Ruby Wong or Chuck Phillips will post details to the list. - SOAP is good. I like Web services. I can babble endlessly about them. :) - Those wishing to try a Web services demo can go to: http://www.velocigen.com/sandbox/web_presentation/intro.html If you brave the marketing speak (or click ahead to "Try it") you can create and use real Web services on VelociGen's nickel. - The meeting location is changing. See the Web site (http://sandiego.pm.org/) for details. Cheers, ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Thu Oct 18 16:39:15 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Meeting notes Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDC2@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ Chris Radcliff sed: > > - Simple Perl databases were discussed. What's the best way > to implement > a very simple database with Perl? MySQL and PostgreSQL were > recommended, > as was Alzabo, an OO data-modelling tool. And a very simple way to implement a prototype SQL/database application is DBD::AnyData, which uses various formats of flat text files for its 'storage', so it doesn't require the installation of any database whatsoever. Not recommended for large production databases :) A non-relational, non-SQL solution is DB_File, which is an interface to Berkeley DB via a tied hash or array. Someone else recommended 'Interbase', it looks like the source can be gotten here: http://www.borland.com/devsupport/interbase/opensource/ and there is a DBD module for it on CPAN. -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chuckphillips at mac.com Wed Oct 24 18:33:16 2001 From: chuckphillips at mac.com (Chuck Phillips) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Unbiased proof that perl is the best. Message-ID: <7FD346BB-C8D7-11D5-8B9B-003065555948@mac.com> ~sdpm~ Hello all, Working on a project that has a in-house ASP developer that is spouting Perl myths so as to eliminate it as an option for development. I'd hate to have to do this in ASP, so my question is: Where can I find unbiased proof that perl is faster, more flexible, more mature, etc than ASP, JSP, etc.. Extra-credit question: Why should I use MySQL over Sybase? Thanks, Chuck ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Wed Oct 24 19:21:36 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Unbiased proof that perl is the best. Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130AD0115DDCF@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ > From: Chuck Phillips [mailto:chuckphillips@mac.com] > > Working on a project that has a in-house ASP developer that > is spouting > Perl myths so as to eliminate it as an option for > development. I'd hate > to have to do this in ASP, so my question is: > > Where can I find unbiased proof that perl is faster, more > flexible, more > mature, etc than ASP, JSP, etc.. ASP does not exclude perl. I was maintaining an ASP site with existing JavaScript and VBScript code, and anything new I did in PerlScript. I wrote one script in JavaScript, then rewrote it in PerlScript and it shrunk down to ~25% of its original size. > > Extra-credit question: Why should I use MySQL over Sybase? Can't say for sure that you should. MySQL is probably faster, cheaper, but Sybase is an enterprise database. I wouldn't use MySQL for critical information. See: http://openacs.org/philosophy/why-not-mysql.html Not all the points still apply, but its still valid. PostgreSQL is another option. -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Wed Oct 24 19:23:44 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Unbiased proof that perl is the best. In-Reply-To: <7FD346BB-C8D7-11D5-8B9B-003065555948@mac.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Chuck Phillips wrote: > ~sdpm~ > Hello all, > > Working on a project that has a in-house ASP developer that is spouting > Perl myths so as to eliminate it as an option for development. I'd hate > to have to do this in ASP, so my question is: > > Where can I find unbiased proof that perl is faster, more flexible, more > mature, etc than ASP, JSP, etc.. Well, you'll have to define "proof" a little better. Do you want speed statistics on run time or development time; do you want comparisons of the development technologies; do you want price comparisons of hardware to run each solution. Assuming you know the answers to those, I think there has been at least one or more articles on use Perl; Do a search there http://use.perl.org/ You could also reference back articles at http://www.perl.com/, testimonials from this group, or one of numerous books on developing for the web with Perl. Assuming that fails, hold up a roll of duct tape and say "This is perl, this can wrap snakes and cofee beans and make them work together. Can your technology do this?" ;-) > Extra-credit question: Why should I use MySQL over Sybase? Depends on your application. For speed or ease of maitainince, MySQL is generally regarded as a *big* winner, however, if you need some real DB technologies (transactions is the first example), then you really are better off with something that does already support it: Oracle or Sybase for the big dollar accounts, Postgres or (... what's the name of that other one that was released by Borland?) for the open-source varieties. "Legitimate" sources reiterating these points may be hard to come by though. I'm not aware of any off the top of my head. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Wed Oct 24 19:26:35 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:28 2004 Subject: Unbiased proof that perl is the best. Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >Where can I find unbiased proof that perl is faster, more flexible, more >mature, etc than ASP, JSP, etc.. Perl, by virtue of its own power and flexibility, it tends to engender bias towards it for anyone who has had the opportunity to become reasonably proficient in it. :) After searching around a bit, I'm also at a loss for finding an even-handed comparisson. I'd love to see what you find regarding this. >Extra-credit question: Why should I use MySQL over Sybase? The short of it: MySQL: Mind-bogglinlgy fast, not as full-featured Sybase (or most other commercial vendors, or even Postgres): More features, slower and more stable (you'll find many people who won't trust their data to anything but a fully transactional database). If you need speed and don't need transactionality, MySQL is the way to go. Anthony - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human.