From joel at cts.com Sun Jul 1 13:44:27 2001 From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: nedit Message-ID: <200107011854.LAA18235@neko.cts.com> ~sdpm~ At the last meeting I asked what people edited with. Most said nedit which I had never heard of. I am using Windoz-95 so I downloaded nedit-5.1.1-win32-noxmim.zip and unzipped it. A file called readme-win32 has the instructions which are mostly Greek to me. The first instruction is: First of all, do not forget to install the X server ;-)) I have no idea what that means. It only gets more confusing from there. -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: Fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joe at artlung.com Sun Jul 1 14:20:42 2001 From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: nedit In-Reply-To: <200107011854.LAA18235@neko.cts.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Joel Fentin wrote: > At the last meeting I asked what people edited with. Most said nedit > which I had never heard of. > > I am using Windoz-95 so I downloaded nedit-5.1.1-win32-noxmim.zip and > unzipped it. A file called readme-win32 has the instructions which are > mostly Greek to me. The first instruction is: First of all, do not > forget to install the X server ;-)) > > I have no idea what that means. > > It only gets more confusing from there. Just based on the nedit home page ( http://nedit.org ) It looks like you have 1 of the 4 requirements listed here (the binary or sources for nedit) http://nedit.org/download/win32.shtml You need also to have CYGWIN and an X Server running. You have a multi-step process ahead of you - but the nedit.org age should help some. If all of that is too daunting I can suggest Textpad and UltraEdit32 which are Win32 native. Good luck! - Joe -- ........... Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web .... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com .... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org .... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Mon Jul 2 18:53:35 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Perl Mongers in July! Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Hey Perl Mongers! We have one more meeting this month (July 18) before the Perl Conference (July 23-27). We are in the middle of designing shirts (What is the status fellows? I haven't seen any graphics yet), so look for an announcement about that coming soon. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joe at artlung.com Mon Jul 9 17:43:18 2001 From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: FWD: Invitation to WebSanDiego.org Happy Hour #8 (fwd) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I thought this would be worth passing to the San Diego Perl crowd... Hope some of y'all can come... - Joe Crawford http://WebSanDiego.org guy. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- << feel free to forward >> Greetings! I'd like to invite you to join WebSanDiego.org for Happy Hour #8...San Diego's original technical-meets-social Internet gathering. We get together, we talk, we hang out. Informal. No sponsors. No freebies. Just cool folks hanging and talking web biz. Low pressure, old school. Web developers/marketers/etc. from many of San Diego's finest companies will be there, so come on down and join the fun! Date -- Monday, July 16th, 2001 Location -- Gordon Biersch Brewery 5010 Mission Center Road San Diego, CA 92108 Location Phone -- 619 688 1120 Time -- 6:00pm - 9:00pm Cost -- Free More Info? -- http://WebSanDiego.org/happyhour/happyhour8 Questions -- mailto:happyhour@websandiego.org Hope to see you there! -------- End Forwarded message -------- ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Wed Jul 11 14:34:54 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Guys, Someone from London just pointed out to me a mistake on our web-page. The website says our next meeting is Wed Jul 25. Actually, it is the third Wed of the month, July 18, aka, next Wed. I believe Bruce is the only one with access to the webserver and he is on vacation, so we will have to make sure that everyone knows otherwise. Also, some people were responsible for T-shirt designs. They unfortunately haven't been delivered, so whoever has artistic talent can you please send me your rendition of what our T-shirts should have printed on them. Otherwise, can someone please resend me Anthony's original design? ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Wed Jul 11 18:48:44 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) Message-ID: I was under the impression that we hadn't come to a concensus on the content. Give me a definitive "yea" on something, and I'll whip up something that looks purty. :) Here's the first image I came up with over a month ago, it has no color in it but if we're going cafepress there's no reason not to add some splash. Seems there's only a one-day lead time on shirts through cafepress (they ship express the next day). Anthony Kilna - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 >>> Bob Kleemann 07/11/01 12:34PM >>> ~sdpm~ Guys, Someone from London just pointed out to me a mistake on our web-page. The website says our next meeting is Wed Jul 25. Actually, it is the third Wed of the month, July 18, aka, next Wed. I believe Bruce is the only one with access to the webserver and he is on vacation, so we will have to make sure that everyone knows otherwise. Also, some people were responsible for T-shirt designs. They unfortunately haven't been delivered, so whoever has artistic talent can you please send me your rendition of what our T-shirts should have printed on them. Otherwise, can someone please resend me Anthony's original design? ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jalocalph.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6382 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010711/1ad15644/jalocalph.gif From todd.rockhold at ontogen.com Wed Jul 11 22:34:44 2001 From: todd.rockhold at ontogen.com (Todd Rockhold) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) Message-ID: <01Jul11.205049pdt.118082@gateway.ontogen.com> ~sdpm~ I think some people wanted some Perl code on the shirt. We agreed on something. Merlyn sugested that perhaps there was too much code. That's the last I heard. Maybe Merlyn scared everybody, even though he prefaced his comments by saying that it's our shirt, so call. A shirt without Perl code on it is OK by me. Perl mongers know what JAPH means, and who knows, maybe not having an explicit "San Diego" will make it more attractive to visitors from out of town - wherever they live, they are local Perl hackers, right? If everybody wants code, I think Chris Radcliff's module is fine. If for some reason everybody hates code now maybe we could use a big asterisk with one typeglob in each of the asterisk's arms, or something. But would that be out of date soon (I haven't been reading the Perl 6 apocalypses)? But it's probably too late for yet another design review. -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Kilna [SMTP:anthony@zoovy.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:49 PM To: san-diego-pm-list@pm.org Subject: Re: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) I was under the impression that we hadn't come to a concensus on the content. Give me a definitive "yea" on something, and I'll whip up something that looks purty. :) Here's the first image I came up with over a month ago, it has no color in it but if we're going cafepress there's no reason not to add some splash. Seems there's only a one-day lead time on shirts through cafepress (they ship express the next day). Anthony Kilna - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 >>> Bob Kleemann 07/11/01 12:34PM >>> ~sdpm~ Guys, Someone from London just pointed out to me a mistake on our web-page. The website says our next meeting is Wed Jul 25. Actually, it is the third Wed of the month, July 18, aka, next Wed. I believe Bruce is the only one with access to the webserver and he is on vacation, so we will have to make sure that everyone knows otherwise. Also, some people were responsible for T-shirt designs. They unfortunately haven't been delivered, so whoever has artistic talent can you please send me your rendition of what our T-shirts should have printed on them. Otherwise, can someone please resend me Anthony's original design? ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. << File: jalocalph.gif >> ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From nestor.florez at intel.com Thu Jul 12 11:55:35 2001 From: nestor.florez at intel.com (Florez, Nestor) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Well, is the decision is not made yet then, how about a Camel at the beach in sunny San diego and the letters "SD-Perlmonger" or just "SDPM". Thanks, Nestor :-) -----Original Message----- From: Todd Rockhold [mailto:todd.rockhold@ontogen.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:35 PM To: san-diego-pm-list@pm.org Subject: RE: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) ~sdpm~ I think some people wanted some Perl code on the shirt. We agreed on something. Merlyn sugested that perhaps there was too much code. That's the last I heard. Maybe Merlyn scared everybody, even though he prefaced his comments by saying that it's our shirt, so call. A shirt without Perl code on it is OK by me. Perl mongers know what JAPH means, and who knows, maybe not having an explicit "San Diego" will make it more attractive to visitors from out of town - wherever they live, they are local Perl hackers, right? If everybody wants code, I think Chris Radcliff's module is fine. If for some reason everybody hates code now maybe we could use a big asterisk with one typeglob in each of the asterisk's arms, or something. But would that be out of date soon (I haven't been reading the Perl 6 apocalypses)? But it's probably too late for yet another design review. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Thu Jul 12 12:15:42 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Well, we had come up with two designs before. I believe Anthony has volunteered to work both designs into something pretty for t-shirts. If anyone else would like to try, the two designs nominated were http://faqchest.dynhost.com/prgm/SDPM/sdpm01062611_18102.html and http://faqchest.dynhost.com/prgm/SDPM/sdpm01062610_17818.html So if anyone wants to get artistic, I'm more than willing to offer up a free t-shirt and small cash prize for anyone that can come up with the best design. Please submit graphics to me. On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Florez, Nestor wrote: > ~sdpm~ > Well, is the decision is not made yet then, > how about a Camel at the beach in sunny San diego > and the letters "SD-Perlmonger" or just "SDPM". > > Thanks, > > Nestor :-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Rockhold [mailto:todd.rockhold@ontogen.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:35 PM > To: san-diego-pm-list@pm.org > Subject: RE: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) > > > ~sdpm~ > I think some people wanted some Perl code on the shirt. We agreed on > something. Merlyn sugested that perhaps there was too much code. That's > the last I heard. Maybe Merlyn scared everybody, even though he prefaced > his comments by saying that it's our shirt, so call. > > A shirt without Perl code on it is OK by me. Perl mongers know what JAPH > means, and who knows, maybe not having an explicit "San Diego" will make it > more attractive to visitors from out of town - wherever they live, they are > local Perl hackers, right? > > If everybody wants code, I think Chris Radcliff's module is fine. > > If for some reason everybody hates code now maybe we could use a big > asterisk with one typeglob in each of the asterisk's arms, or something. > But would that be out of date soon (I haven't been reading the Perl 6 > apocalypses)? > > But it's probably too late for yet another design review. > > > > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 12 14:49:11 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Bob Kleemann wrote: > Well, we had come up with two designs before. I believe Anthony has > volunteered to work both designs into something pretty for t-shirts. If > anyone else would like to try, the two designs nominated were Just to muddle the works a bit... Front left breast; JAPH::OSS2001 Back of Shirt: @SanDiego_PM = map { $_->[0] } grep { $_->[1] eq 'Sunny' and $_->[2] eq 'Open Source 2001 Conference' and $_->[3] eq 'Zoo' and $_->[4] eq 'Beaches' and $_->[4] eq any(@electricity) } map { [ $_, split /:/, $_ } @JAPH; Um, it requires Quantum::Superpositions. If I get a good response, I'll even fire up the GIMP ;) How many colors? CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From schoon at amgt.com Thu Jul 12 15:12:55 2001 From: schoon at amgt.com (schoon@amgt.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Last array index should be a 5?? .mark >---------- >From: cabney[SMTP:cabney@cyberpass.net] >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:49 PM >To: Bob Kleemann >Cc: Florez, Nestor; 'Todd Rockhold'; san-diego-pm-list@pm.org >Subject: RE: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) > >~sdpm~ >On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Bob Kleemann wrote: > >> Well, we had come up with two designs before. I believe Anthony has >> volunteered to work both designs into something pretty for t-shirts. If >> anyone else would like to try, the two designs nominated were > >Just to muddle the works a bit... > >Front left breast; > > JAPH::OSS2001 > >Back of Shirt: > > @SanDiego_PM = map { $_->[0] } > grep { > $_->[1] eq 'Sunny' > and > $_->[2] eq 'Open Source 2001 Conference' > and > $_->[3] eq 'Zoo' > and > $_->[4] eq 'Beaches' > and > $_->[5] eq any(@electricity) > > } map { [ $_, split /:/, $_ } @JAPH; > >Um, it requires Quantum::Superpositions. >If I get a good response, I'll even fire up the GIMP ;) >How many colors? > >CA >-- >There was a time >A wind that blew so young >For this could be the biggest sky >And I could have the faintest idea > > >~sdpm~ > >The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > >List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > >If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, >you can send mail to with the following >command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > >If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, >(if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the >list itself) send email to . >This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need >to contact a human. > > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 12 15:39:00 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ er, guess it would help to run 'perl -c' on it, first... use OSS::Perl; @SanDiego_PM = map { $_->[0] } grep { $_->[1] eq 'OSS Conference 2001' and $_->[2] eq 'local hacker' and $_->[3] eq 'Sunny' and $_->[4] eq 'Zoo' and $_->[5] eq 'Beaches' and $_->[6] eq any(@electricity) } map { [$_, split /:/, $_] } @JAPH; CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 12 16:06:46 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Meeting on the 18th (*not the 25th*) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I couldn't stop at just posting... here's the images, attached. I think part of the message of a T-shirt like this is more to show some Joe on the street you know arcane junk than to convey a clear and bold message (except maybe to flag you for other geeks) and in that respect this, I think, works. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: front.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1044 bytes Desc: Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010712/475b8a3b/front.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: back.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11205 bytes Desc: Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010712/475b8a3b/back.gif From rkleeman at energoncube.net Thu Jul 12 16:30:25 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: O'Reilly Open Source Conference info you requested (fwd) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Good news for anyone not yet registered. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:23:23 -0700 From: Denise Olliffe To: Bob Kleemann Subject: O'Reilly Open Source Conference info you requested Hi Bob, I sincerely apologize for not seeing this until now. Let's face it, email isn't infallible (neither am I). YES, we absolutely offer discounts to your members for the opens source convention. It's not too late to register. We offer 20% discount to your members on both conference sessions and tutorials. Your members should use the discount code DSUG. If they register online, they should enter the discount code where it says: "If you received a discount code, enter it here." By the way, thanks for posting the conference banner. [...] ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 12 21:40:47 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Anyone have a more succinct way to do this? Or... faster? I'm no compsci guy, but my guess is this is O(NlogN). =8<=============================================== #! /usr/bin/perl -w # Finds all the different ways of combining N items, excluding the empty # set. So, 2**N - 1 combinations. use strict; my @elems = @ARGV; my ( %elems ); for my $elem ( @elems ) { $elems{$elem}++; } for my $depth ( 2 .. scalar @elems ) { my @existing = grep { length ($_) == $depth-1 } keys %elems; for my $key ( @existing ) { my $last = substr ($key, length($key)-1, 1); for my $elem (@elems) { if ( ord($last) < ord($elem) ) { my $new = $key . $elem; $elems{$new}++; } } } } print "$_\n" for keys %elems; =8<=============================================== CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 12 21:42:41 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: big O notation... Message-ID: ~sdpm~ What's being compared against here, anyway? the input or the output? I was comparing against the output. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jul 12 22:51:27 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "cabney" == cabney writes: cabney> ~sdpm~ cabney> Anyone have a more succinct way to do this? Or... faster? I'm no compsci cabney> guy, but my guess is this is O(NlogN). cabney> =8<=============================================== cabney> #! /usr/bin/perl -w cabney> # Finds all the different ways of combining N items, excluding the empty cabney> # set. So, 2**N - 1 combinations. Here's one way that involves more recursion than iteration. I've come up with ways that involve more iteration than recursion too. :) my @list = qw(red orange yellow green blue); combo([], @list); sub combo { my $base = shift; if (@_) { my $first = shift; combo($base, @_); combo([@$base, $first], @_); } else { print "@$base\n" if @$base; # skip null set } } -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 12 23:00:07 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 12 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > Here's one way that involves more recursion than iteration. I've come > up with ways that involve more iteration than recursion too. :) > > my @list = qw(red orange yellow green blue); > combo([], @list); > sub combo { > my $base = shift; > if (@_) { > my $first = shift; > combo($base, @_); > combo([@$base, $first], @_); > } else { > print "@$base\n" if @$base; # skip null set > } > } Oh I like it... you don't have to look in the base if you are chewing away at the list... Thanks! :) CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 12 23:59:57 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 12 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > Here's one way that involves more recursion than iteration. I've come > up with ways that involve more iteration than recursion too. :) [shnibble] hmmm, something like this?? (this is very nice, thanks again. :) =8<======================================================= #! /usr/bin/perl -w my @list = qw(red orange yellow green blue); my @ans = combo(@list); print "@{$_}\n" for @ans; sub combo { my $ret; while ( @_ ) { my $this = shift; my @redo; for $done (@{$ret}) { push @redo, [$this,@{$done}]; } push @{$ret}, [$this], @redo; } return @{$ret}; } =8<======================================================= CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Fri Jul 13 00:23:51 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: > hmmm, something like this?? (this is very nice, thanks again. :) The only reason I can think I did it returning a scalar is that I've been swinging from vines inside a hash jungle (no not /that/ kind!) of my own making, but haven't brought myself to pulling out the chainsaw yet, and starting over from scratch. Maybe time for bed. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Jul 13 00:48:52 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "cabney" == cabney writes: cabney> On 12 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >> Here's one way that involves more recursion than iteration. I've come >> up with ways that involve more iteration than recursion too. :) cabney> [shnibble] cabney> hmmm, something like this?? (this is very nice, thanks again. :) No, I was thinking something more like: my @list = qw(red orange yellow green blue purple); for (my $i = 1; $i < 1 << @list; $i++) { my $bits = unpack "B*", pack "N", $i; my @out = grep $bits =~ s/(.)$// && $1, @list; print "$i = @out\n"; } Works up to 32 items. More requires a nicer bit-increment algorithm, but when are you going to do this with 32 items or more? :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Fri Jul 13 02:04:18 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 12 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > my @list = qw(red orange yellow green blue purple); > for (my $i = 1; $i < 1 << @list; $i++) { > my $bits = unpack "B*", pack "N", $i; > my @out = grep $bits =~ s/(.)$// && $1, @list; > print "$i = @out\n"; > } > > Works up to 32 items. More requires a nicer bit-increment algorithm, > but when are you going to do this with 32 items or more? :) Woah, I'm still going through it. Seems memory friendly, is it faster, too? CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Fri Jul 13 14:06:09 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 12 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > my @list = qw(red orange yellow green blue purple); > for (my $i = 1; $i < 1 << @list; $i++) { > my $bits = unpack "B*", pack "N", $i; > my @out = grep $bits =~ s/(.)$// && $1, @list; > print "$i = @out\n"; > } > > Works up to 32 items. More requires a nicer bit-increment algorithm, > but when are you going to do this with 32 items or more? :) while the count is -lt 2**N, get a string representative of the count's value in binary format. for each value in @list knock off the last "bit" from the bit string if this succeeds (it goes through the /entire/ bitstring?) the "bit" is the return value for the grep push out the current @list value if return is "true" print the count and @out. If this goes through the whole bitstring, could you get a significant optimization removing zero's from the high end? CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Jul 13 15:41:56 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "cabney" == cabney writes: cabney> On 12 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >> my @list = qw(red orange yellow green blue purple); >> for (my $i = 1; $i < 1 << @list; $i++) { >> my $bits = unpack "B*", pack "N", $i; >> my @out = grep $bits =~ s/(.)$// && $1, @list; >> print "$i = @out\n"; >> } >> >> Works up to 32 items. More requires a nicer bit-increment algorithm, >> but when are you going to do this with 32 items or more? :) cabney> while the count is -lt 2**N, cabney> get a string representative of the count's value in binary format. cabney> for each value in @list cabney> knock off the last "bit" from the bit string cabney> if this succeeds (it goes through the /entire/ bitstring?) cabney> the "bit" is the return value for the grep cabney> push out the current @list value if return is "true" cabney> print the count and @out. cabney> If this goes through the whole bitstring, could you get a significant cabney> optimization removing zero's from the high end? No, it only removes bits from the right end for as many items as there are in the list. No savings there. And the "unpack" is fast, because the integer is already bit-ish. I doubt you'd find a much faster algorithm. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Fri Jul 13 16:00:32 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 13 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > cabney> If this goes through the whole bitstring, could you get a significant > cabney> optimization removing zero's from the high end? > > No, it only removes bits from the right end for as many items as there > are in the list. No savings there. And the "unpack" is fast, because > the integer is already bit-ish. I doubt you'd find a much faster > algorithm. I base my conclusion on the empty $bit variable, post-grep. I'll take another look. Thx, CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Jul 13 16:18:34 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "cabney" == cabney writes: cabney> I base my conclusion on the empty $bit variable, post-grep. I'll cabney> take another look. Shoudln't be. Should eval the test expression only once per @list. Otherwise, how would it know when to stop! -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Fri Jul 13 16:16:17 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 13 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > cabney> I base my conclusion on the empty $bit variable, post-grep. I'll > cabney> take another look. > > Shoudln't be. Should eval the test expression only once per @list. Otherwise, > how would it know when to stop! That's what I thought too, but then I peeked inside $bits. Have to check my work... CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Sat Jul 14 01:39:45 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: math is hard (to remember) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: > That's what I thought too, but then I peeked inside $bits. Have to check my > work... Well, I think I've managed to reconstruct how I could have not seen 27 zeros in $bits. I just don't think it's interesting enough to tell. :-p CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From schoon at amgt.com Sun Jul 15 16:27:42 2001 From: schoon at amgt.com (schoon@amgt.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Good Afternoon! I have this polygon I need to split up into in smaller elements and determine how many nodal points I have.... My first attempt was to brute force the problem and just see if my nodal points fell within the polygon, and start counting - but under certain conditions that fails. It mostly fails when the point is on an edge of the polygon... My second idea is to calculate how many nodal points I'm going to have by how many subelements are present. I'm developing the application using Perl/Tk, but I am new to using it. There might be a third way to determine nodal points by using createRectangle. I'm not looking for a direct solution - more along the lines of a brain storm. Any ideas greatly appreciated!! Thanks Again! .mark ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Sun Jul 15 21:23:55 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 schoon@amgt.com wrote: > I have this polygon I need to split up into in smaller elements and > determine how many nodal points I have.... My first attempt was to brute > force the problem and just see if my nodal points fell within the > polygon, and start counting - but under certain conditions that fails. > It mostly fails when the point is on an edge of the polygon... My second > idea is to calculate how many nodal points I'm going to have by how many > subelements are present. I'm developing the application using Perl/Tk, > but I am new to using it. There might be a third way to determine nodal > points by using createRectangle. I'm not looking for a direct solution - > more along the lines of a brain storm. Any ideas greatly appreciated!! I think the standard way to do this is take a slice of the polygon at the point on the ordinal, and increment a count ever time you pass an edge. You are in the polygon (if it is one :) on the odd count. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From schoon at amgt.com Sun Jul 15 21:42:26 2001 From: schoon at amgt.com (schoon@amgt.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Yes, this is true, using a ray... But it fails when a point is right on a boundary, and the polygon is odd shaped which would make an even amount of crossings... Still a valid point, but fails the test... .mark >---------- >From: cabney[SMTP:cabney@cyberpass.net] >Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:23 PM >To: Mark Schoonover >Cc: san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org >Subject: Re: Polygons & Nodal Points... > >On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 schoon@amgt.com wrote: > >> I have this polygon I need to split up into in smaller elements and >> determine how many nodal points I have.... My first attempt was to brute >> force the problem and just see if my nodal points fell within the >> polygon, and start counting - but under certain conditions that fails. >> It mostly fails when the point is on an edge of the polygon... My second >> idea is to calculate how many nodal points I'm going to have by how many >> subelements are present. I'm developing the application using Perl/Tk, >> but I am new to using it. There might be a third way to determine nodal >> points by using createRectangle. I'm not looking for a direct solution - >> more along the lines of a brain storm. Any ideas greatly appreciated!! > >I think the standard way to do this is take a slice of the polygon at the >point on the ordinal, and increment a count ever time you pass an edge. > >You are in the polygon (if it is one :) on the odd count. > >CA >-- >There was a time >A wind that blew so young >For this could be the biggest sky >And I could have the faintest idea > > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Sun Jul 15 21:58:12 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 schoon@amgt.com wrote: > Yes, this is true, using a ray... But it fails when a point is right on > a boundary, and the polygon is odd shaped which would make an even > amount of crossings... Still a valid point, but fails the test... well, no. Use >= and <= for points on the lower and upper edge of the polygon, and I if you construct some odd scenarios (even allowing the 'north' and 'south' edges to cross, or using concave (acute) vertices) you'll find it works. Just start the count from the minimum point on the y-axis, and proceed, either to your point or to the maximum y-value. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 16 01:42:43 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 schoon@amgt.com wrote: > Yes, this is true, using a ray... But it fails when a point is right on > a boundary, and the polygon is odd shaped which would make an even > amount of crossings... Still a valid point, but fails the test... K, i have to admit... you need to handle when you are leaving the polyon and your y-value is on the edge: sub in_poly { # @isect are x,y quads from the polygon that cross at x my ($x, $y, @isect) = @_; return "hit!" if is_node($x,$y,@isect); my $c = 0; # slice gives you y at x for each x,y quad my @ladder = slice ($x, @isect); @ladder = sort {$a <=> $b} @ladder; while (@ladder) { my $rung = shift @ladder; if ( $y == $rung ) { unless ($c % 2) { $c-- } last; } last if ( $y < $rung ); $c++; } return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; } CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From schoon at amgt.com Mon Jul 16 12:55:55 2001 From: schoon at amgt.com (schoon@amgt.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Hey, thanks! Yes, I did think of this approach - simply check to see if my node falls on a line... This will work if all lines are orthoganal, but I can't be guaranteed this will be the case. The approach I'm thinking of is like this: All polygons start at the origin. Start at origin X=0, Y=0; If X == vertice, check for max/min Y and increment Y from min to max. Increment X check max/min Y, increment Y from min to max.... My thoughts are this would handle angled line segments. What I'm doing is creating a mesh within the polygon.... This is discussed somewhat in the Mastering Algorithms book, but solving for the case of a node on a vertice was out of the books scope. .mark >---------- >From: cabney[SMTP:cabney@cyberpass.net] >Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:42 PM >To: Mark Schoonover >Cc: san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org >Subject: RE: Polygons & Nodal Points... > >~sdpm~ >On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 schoon@amgt.com wrote: > >> Yes, this is true, using a ray... But it fails when a point is right on >> a boundary, and the polygon is odd shaped which would make an even >> amount of crossings... Still a valid point, but fails the test... > >K, i have to admit... you need to handle when you are leaving the >polyon and your y-value is on the edge: > >sub in_poly >{ > # @isect are x,y quads from the polygon that cross at x > my ($x, $y, @isect) = @_; > > return "hit!" if is_node($x,$y,@isect); > my $c = 0; > > # slice gives you y at x for each x,y quad > my @ladder = slice ($x, @isect); > @ladder = sort {$a <=> $b} @ladder; > > while (@ladder) > { > my $rung = shift @ladder; > if ( $y == $rung ) { > unless ($c % 2) { $c-- } > last; > } > last if ( $y < $rung ); > $c++; > } > return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; >} > >CA >-- >There was a time >A wind that blew so young >For this could be the biggest sky >And I could have the faintest idea > >~sdpm~ > >The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > >List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > >If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, >you can send mail to with the following >command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > >If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, >(if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the >list itself) send email to . >This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need >to contact a human. > > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 16 15:29:51 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 schoon@amgt.com wrote: > Hey, thanks! Yes, I did think of this approach - simply check to see if > my node falls on a line... This will work if all lines are orthoganal, > but I can't be guaranteed this will be the case. The approach I'm > thinking of is like this: Orthogonal? You don't have to check a segment if it's running on x=$x, because you are already bounded on both ends of the segment by another vertice (which can be used for the increment.) > All polygons start at the origin. Not really necessary. > Start at origin X=0, Y=0; > If X == vertice, check for max/min Y and increment Y from min to max. > Increment X check max/min Y, increment Y from min to max.... You don't even need to mess with min and max, unless you are looking for bad input. :) > My thoughts are this would handle angled line segments. What I'm doing > is creating a mesh within the polygon.... This is discussed somewhat in > the Mastering Algorithms book, but solving for the case of a node on a > vertice was out of the books scope. Collect the edges of the polygon (as quads) that intersect the line x=$x and calculate their y-values at x=$x. These are enough to tell you where you are. I'm not gonna say this is the right way to do it. I sorta felt my way through the properties of the method rather than digging out a super nice elegant algorithm, so someone else undoubtedly has a better approach. But simple approaches are always the easiest to maintain.:) There's also a lot of copying going on... This will also manage simple edge traversals (crossing an edge with another edge) which probably isn't necessary if you require a regular polygon, but I'm sure some nasty things could be done to defeat it: =8<================================================== #! /usr/bin/perl -w # I think this assumes Eulerian, directed, connected, cyclic... but # I'm still picking that stuff up... # Anyway, something one'd use to create a polygon in a graphics module # like GD.pm or OpenGL, where the final point coincides with the first. use strict; my ( $x, $y ) = @ARGV; # These must always end where they start # Otherwise I think they can do wierd things, like crossed edges... # square with a triangle missing #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 3.0,0.0, # 3.0,3.0, 0.0,3.0, # 2.0,1.0, 0.0,0.0); #wierd polygon #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 3.0,0.0, # 3.0,4.0, 0.0,4.0, # 2.0,1.0, 0.0,3.0, # 0.0,2.0, 2.0,1.0, # 0.0,0.0); # starburst #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 5.0,-1.0, # 5.0,1.0, 0.0,0.0, # 5.0,2.0, 5.0,3.0, # 0.0,0.0, 5.0,4.0, # 5.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0, # 4.0,5.0, 3.0,5.0, # 0.0,0.0, 2.0,5.0, # 1.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0 ); # starburst #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 5.0,-1.0, # 5.0,1.0, 0.0,0.0, # 5.0,2.0, 5.0,3.0, # 0.0,0.0, 5.0,4.0, # 5.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0, # 4.0,5.0, 3.0,5.0, # 0.0,0.0, 2.0,5.0, # 1.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0, # -1.0,5.0, -2.0,5.0, # 0.0,0.0 ); #cross my @poly = ( 2.0,0.0, 4.0,1.0, 4.0,-1.0, 0.0,1.0, 0.0,-1.0, 2.0,0.0, 3.0,2.0, 1.0,2.0, 3.0,-2.0, 1.0,-2.0, 2.0,0.0); printf "(%f, %f): %s\n", $x, $y, in_poly($x,$y, @poly); ### # is a point x,y inside a polygon defined by @poly? sub in_poly { my ( $x, $y, @poly ) = @_; my $c = 0; my @ladder = slice ( $x, @poly ); while (@ladder) { my $rung = shift @ladder; # special case: we're on the edge if ( $y == $rung ) { # trailing edge $c++ unless $c % 2; } # we know we're on-edge/beyond the polygon last if ( $y <= $rung ); # odd is in, even is out (promote diversity!) $c++; } return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; } ### # well, probably not necessary to identify this case. sub is_vert { my ($x, $y, @poly) = @_; while ( my ($next_x,$next_y) = splice (@poly,0,2)) { return 1 if ( ($x == $next_x) and ($y == $next_y) ); } return 0; } ### # given x and two points on a line... sub mx_plus_b { my $x = shift; my ( $x1,$y1,$x2,$y2 ) = @_; my ( $m, $b ); $m = ($y2-$y1)/($x2-$x1); $b = $y1 - $m*$x1; return $m*$x+$b; } ### # Return a set of y-values at $x of the polygon edges that intersect # at x=$x sub slice { my $x = shift; my @poly = @_; my @isect; my @segment = splice ( @poly, 0, 2 ); # for each set of quads (x1,y1,x2,y2) that intersect at x=$x while ( 4 == push @segment, splice ( @poly, 0, 2 ) ) { if ( ( $segment[0] <= $x && $x <= $segment[2] ) or ( $segment[2] <= $x && $x <= $segment[0] ) ) { if ( $segment[0] == $segment[2] ) { next; } else { # collect the y-values for segments at x=$x; push @isect, mx_plus_b($x,@segment); } } @segment = splice( @segment ,2 ,2 ); } return sort {$a <=> $b } @isect; } =8<================================================== CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 16 15:58:37 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:23 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: > # we know we're on-edge/beyond the polygon er. s/beyond/encompassed-by/ CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 16 16:09:27 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: just for grins (re: polygons...) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ This is perl 5.6.1 on some linux or other... [cabney@felidae cassette]$ ~/work/perltest/inpoly/inpoly.pl 2.5 0.2500000000000000001 2 0 4 1 4 -1 0 1 0 -1 2 0 3 2 1 2 3 -2 1 -2 (2.500000, 0.250000): miss! [cabney@felidae cassette]$ ~/work/perltest/inpoly/inpoly.pl 2.5 0.25000000000000000001 2 0 4 1 4 -1 0 1 0 -1 2 0 3 2 1 2 3 -2 1 -2 (2.500000, 0.250000): hit! CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 16 16:49:38 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: Well, this is just /wrong/... correction below. > ### > # Return a set of y-values at $x of the polygon edges that intersect > # at x=$x > sub slice > { > my $x = shift; > my @poly = @_; > > my @isect; > my @segment = splice ( @poly, 0, 2 ); > # for each set of quads (x1,y1,x2,y2) that intersect at x=$x > while ( 4 == push @segment, splice ( @poly, 0, 2 ) ) > { > if ( ( $segment[0] <= $x && $x <= $segment[2] ) > or > ( $segment[2] <= $x && $x <= $segment[0] ) > ) { > if ( $segment[0] == $segment[2] ) { > next; > } else { > # collect the y-values for segments at x=$x; > push @isect, mx_plus_b($x,@segment); > } > } > @segment = splice( @segment ,2 ,2 ); > } > return sort {$a <=> $b } @isect; > } =8<================================================== #! /usr/bin/perl -w # CAbney20010715 # I think this assumes Eulerian, cyclic, directed, connected... but # I'm still picking that stuff up... # Anyway, something one'd use to create a polygon in a graphics module # like GD.pm or OpenGL, where the final point coincides with the first. use strict; my ( $x, $y, @poly ) = @ARGV; # These must always end where they start # Otherwise I think they can do wierd things, like crossed edges... # square with a triangle missing #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 3.0,0.0, # 3.0,3.0, 0.0,3.0, # 2.0,1.0, 0.0,0.0); #wierd polygon #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 3.0,0.0, # 3.0,4.0, 0.0,4.0, # 2.0,1.0, 0.0,3.0, # 0.0,2.0, 2.0,1.0, # 0.0,0.0); # starburst #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 5.0,-1.0, # 5.0,1.0, 0.0,0.0, # 5.0,2.0, 5.0,3.0, # 0.0,0.0, 5.0,4.0, # 5.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0, # 4.0,5.0, 3.0,5.0, # 0.0,0.0, 2.0,5.0, # 1.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0 ); # starburst #my @poly = ( 0.0,0.0, 5.0,-1.0, # 5.0,1.0, 0.0,0.0, # 5.0,2.0, 5.0,3.0, # 0.0,0.0, 5.0,4.0, # 5.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0, # 4.0,5.0, 3.0,5.0, # 0.0,0.0, 2.0,5.0, # 1.0,5.0, 0.0,0.0, # -1.0,5.0, -2.0,5.0, # 0.0,0.0 ); #cross @poly = ( 2.0,0.0, 4.0,1.0, 4.0,-1.0, 0.0,1.0, 0.0,-1.0, 2.0,0.0, 3.0,2.0, 1.0,2.0, 3.0,-2.0, 1.0,-2.0, 2.0,0.0) unless @poly; printf "(%f, %f): %s\n", $x, $y, in_poly($x,$y, @poly); ### # is a point x,y inside a polygon defined by @poly? sub in_poly { my ( $x, $y, @poly ) = @_; my $c = 0; my @ladder = slice ( $x, @poly ); while (@ladder) { my $rung = shift @ladder; # special case: we're on the edge if ( $y == $rung ) { # trailing edge $c++ unless $c % 2; } # we know we're on-edge/encompassed-by the polygon last if ( $y <= $rung ); # odd is in, even is out (promote diversity!) $c++; } return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; } ### # well, probably not necessary to identify this case. sub is_vert { my ($x, $y, @poly) = @_; while ( my ($next_x,$next_y) = splice (@poly,0,2)) { return 1 if ( ($x == $next_x) and ($y == $next_y) ); } return 0; } ### # given x and two points on a line... sub mx_plus_b { my $x = shift; my ( $x1,$y1,$x2,$y2 ) = @_; my ( $m, $b ); $m = ($y2-$y1)/($x2-$x1); $b = $y1 - $m*$x1; return $m*$x+$b; } ### # Return a set of y-values at $x of the polygon edges that intersect # at x=$x sub slice { my $x = shift; my @poly = @_; my @isect; my @segment = splice ( @poly, 0, 2 ); # for each set of quads (x1,y1,x2,y2) that intersect at x=$x while ( 4 == push @segment, splice ( @poly, 0, 2 ) ) { if ( ( $segment[0] <= $x && $x <= $segment[2] ) or ( $segment[2] <= $x && $x <= $segment[0] ) ) { unless ( $segment[0] == $segment[2] ) { push @isect, mx_plus_b($x,@segment); } } @segment = splice( @segment ,2 ,2 ); } return sort {$a <=> $b } @isect; } =8<================================================== CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Tue Jul 17 18:55:42 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Meeting tommorow Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Just a reminder there is a meeting tommorow. Winners of the t-shirt design contest will be revealed (get your entries in quickly, as currently we only have 1.5 entries). We will also discuss the upcoming Perl Conference next week and converse about any other topics that come up (problems, solutions, etc). ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From canetguy at home.com Tue Jul 17 20:47:33 2001 From: canetguy at home.com (Garrett Casey) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Meeting tommorow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200107171847330650.01EC5DA5@mail> Attached are two gifs that were anonymously suggested to me for the tees (to add to the voting). See you all on Wed. -Garrett *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 7/17/01 at 4:55 PM Bob Kleemann wrote: >~sdpm~ >Just a reminder there is a meeting tommorow. Winners of the t-shirt >design contest will be revealed (get your entries in quickly, as currently >we only have 1.5 entries). We will also discuss the upcoming Perl >Conference next week and converse about any other topics that come up >(problems, solutions, etc). > >~sdpm~ > >The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > >List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > >If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, >you can send mail to with the following >command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > >If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, >(if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the >list itself) send email to . >This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need >to contact a human. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: teefront.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010717/6025ccd1/teefront.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: teeback.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1982 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010717/6025ccd1/teeback.gif From anthony at zoovy.com Tue Jul 17 21:00:51 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Meeting tommorow Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I wish I could come but I'm having my wisdom teeth removed in the morning. :( I'll be at the perl conference on Monday though. Anthony Kilna - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 >>> Bob Kleemann 07/17/01 04:55PM >>> ~sdpm~ Just a reminder there is a meeting tommorow. Winners of the t-shirt design contest will be revealed (get your entries in quickly, as currently we only have 1.5 entries). We will also discuss the upcoming Perl Conference next week and converse about any other topics that come up (problems, solutions, etc). ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From schoon at amgt.com Tue Jul 17 21:23:15 2001 From: schoon at amgt.com (schoon@amgt.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Meeting tommorow Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Will there be a general meeting place for sdpm?? I'm attending the first two days.... .mark >---------- >From: Anthony Kilna[SMTP:anthony@zoovy.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 7:00 PM >To: san-diego-pm-list@pm.org >Subject: Re: Meeting tommorow > >~sdpm~ > >I wish I could come but I'm having my wisdom teeth removed in the morning. >:( I'll be at the perl conference on Monday though. > >Anthony Kilna - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 > >>>> Bob Kleemann 07/17/01 04:55PM >>> >~sdpm~ >Just a reminder there is a meeting tommorow. Winners of the t-shirt >design contest will be revealed (get your entries in quickly, as currently >we only have 1.5 entries). We will also discuss the upcoming Perl >Conference next week and converse about any other topics that come up >(problems, solutions, etc). > >~sdpm~ > >The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > >List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > >If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, >you can send mail to with the following >command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > >If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, >(if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the >list itself) send email to . >This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need >to contact a human. > > >~sdpm~ > >The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > >List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > >If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, >you can send mail to with the following >command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > >If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, >(if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the >list itself) send email to . >This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need >to contact a human. > > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Jul 18 02:09:28 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Meeting tommorow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Kleemann writes: Bob> Just a reminder there is a meeting tommorow. Winners of the t-shirt Bob> design contest will be revealed (get your entries in quickly, as currently Bob> we only have 1.5 entries). We will also discuss the upcoming Perl Bob> Conference next week and converse about any other topics that come up Bob> (problems, solutions, etc). Also, please keep in mind that you guys are all invited to the Stonehenge Party wednesday night next week... location to be announced... regardless of your TPC attendance status. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Wed Jul 18 15:14:48 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: poor NY.pm'er needs TPC accomodations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Jeff, I'm forwarding your message to the group to see if anyone else can offer more help than I can. I'm not familiar with any affordable places to stay around the convention center (which the conference is going to be held right next to), but you can look here: http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypResults.py?&&city=San+Diego&state=CA&zip=92101&country=us&slt=32.720299&sln=-117.163002&cs=5&stp=y&stx=7737307 For a Yahoo listing close to zip-code 92101 (where the convention center is). Also, you may be interested in: http://www.sdcommute.com/service/otis_start.htm Which should help you determine the capabilities of our "public transit" system. (Note the double quotes, our system in no way compares to New York's.) If there are any more ways I/we can help, please let me/us know. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Jeff 'japhy/Marillion' Pinyan wrote: > Hi Rob. You probably don't know me, but I'm a NY Perl Monger with a > rather small budget (college student) who works for a company that won't > pay for his trip to TPC. I'm speaking at the conference, so that fee has > been waived, but I've paid for my airline ticket, and now I need to find > an affordable (and not super-distant) place to stay. > > I've asked the NY Perl Mongers if any of them were forced into getting > double bed rooms, and if I could share for half the cost. But then a > coworker of mine reminded me that there's probably a San Diego Perl Monger > division, and lo and behold, here you are. > > I would be eternally grateful if one of the mongers could assist me in > finding a place to stay. I'm not asking for a personal residence, but a > knowledgeable selection of a hotel that wouldn't kill me would be very > much appreciated. > > Thank you very much. > > -- > Jeff "japhy" Pinyan japhy@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~japhy/ > I am Marillion, the wielder of Ringril, known as Hesinaur, the Winter-Sun. > Are you a Monk? http://www.perlmonks.com/ http://forums.perlguru.com/ > Perl Programmer at RiskMetrics Group, Inc. http://www.riskmetrics.com/ > Acacia Fraternity, Rensselaer Chapter. Brother #734 > ** Manning Publications, Co, is publishing my Perl Regex book ** > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Thu Jul 19 05:25:50 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Holy Shirts Batman! Message-ID: ~sdpm~ ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Thu Jul 19 05:26:07 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Holy Shirts Batman! Message-ID: ~sdpm~ ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From kilna at kilna.com Thu Jul 19 07:03:53 2001 From: kilna at kilna.com (KILNA) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Stepped in a pile of shirt (webmail woes). Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010719050240.00a68900@wheresmymailserver.com> ~sdpm~ Firstly, my apologies for spamming this group with multiple messages (with dubious subject lines). The GroupWise webmail client I'm forced to use for the account I was subscribed under picked up my "enter" after the subject as a send. My bad was allowing myself to make this mistake more than once. :) I actually attempted to sent this email a couple more times through GroupWise, but then the browser kept on timing out (seems it only wants to send embarrassing empty messages for me, not actual ones). Hopefully this time will work OK, I subscribed my home account, sans kludgy Novell software :) OK, I put together what we agreed upon at the meeting, along with 2 (very small) uses of artistic licence: Firstly, I added some red to the smaller text on the back, and the double-colons on the front. When I actually saw the picture of the completed shirt on the site I had a hard time concentrating due to my snoring. It needed a little pizazz. I think everyone will agree it looks much better with a little zippiness in there. Also, Instead of placing the front graphic on the pocket area, I centered it on the breast. It seemed a bit off balance with the big black square going into the armpit, so I fiddled with it a bit and I think it looks better across the front. The back logo is 8"x8" and the front banner is 1.5"x8". Included are the actual graphics used since Cafe Press doesn't let you zoom in. http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=sdperlmonger I may have a need to use CafePress at some time in the future... they give discounts to users with popular stores, so I just went ahead and set it up myself. If anyone has objections to my "owning" the store (for lack of a better term) give me an email and we can figure something out. I also took the liberty of using the non-TPC-specific back logo to whip up a few more products in case anyone really cares. It looked kinda barren with just the one shirt there. All of the items listed are at CafePress cost (yes, the charge $15 a shirt *before* anyone can make any profit! Bastages!!!). At-cost was agreed upon to let us avoid that whole "where do we put the money earned" thang. From what I remember of the meeting, the consensus was one person would place a rush order for however many shirts would be needed, so we could all save on shipping and still get the shirts in time for the show. I'm cash poor right now since I'm moving, so unfortunately I can't volunteer to be the money collector (in fact, I'm so cash poor I may take Mr. Kleeman up on his offer to buy the designer of the shirt one of them :)... I think the person collecting size requests and money ended up being Bobby or Chris...? With the shipping it looks like it would probably end up about $20 per shirt or so, assuming 10 shirts @ @14.99, 2nd day delivery ($36), and $14.87 CA Sales tax. 2nd day will get the shirts to us in time for the Larry Wall speech on Tuesday (and of course the Stonehenge party on Wednesday). Next day will give us some wiggle room, but will cost about $2 extra per shirt ($56 shipping instead of $36 for the total 10-shirt order). This may give us a little peace of mind that everything will arrive, seeing as there's an immutable deadline involved. BTW, if we wanted to save a buck we could go back on the ash-grey shirts and go for white, those are $13.99 instead, but I personally think the grey will look MUCH better. When and where do folks show up to fork over the ol' moolah? I highly recommend PayPal for payment to whoever is collecting of money, since it's realtime and people can use credit cards. You can sign up for PayPal at https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=kilna%40kilna.com . I'll kick back a couple bucks of my referral fee if you sign up through me. :) -Anthony Kilna ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From kilna at kilna.com Thu Jul 19 07:34:55 2001 From: kilna at kilna.com (KILNA) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Oh yeah, attachments Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010719053252.00a64b60@wheresmymailserver.com> Not having a good time of it. Here's the attachments. I'll just blame it on the pain medication for my dentistry. :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: japh-tpc5-big-color.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3940 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010719/ddafc8c6/japh-tpc5-big-color.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ja-local-ph-color.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010719/ddafc8c6/ja-local-ph-color.gif -------------- next part -------------- From chris at velocigen.com Thu Jul 19 10:51:26 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Stepped in a pile of shirt (webmail woes). References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010719050240.00a68900@wheresmymailserver.com> Message-ID: <3B5701FE.7760DAB2@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Kudos to Anthony! That's one great-looking shirt. Count me in for one. I've set up a PayPal account to handle collections, but it has some built-in limits that we'll have to keep in mind. Here's how we'll do it: 1. Sign up for a PayPal account of your own. (https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=kilna%40kilna.com) 2. Use the "Send Money" feature to send a $5 deposit (per shirt) to chris@globalspin.com (me) before 2pm PST today (Thursday the 19th). If you already have a checking account linked to PayPal, please use that if you can. PayPal has strict credit card limits (on my end) so I can't take more than 20 credit card deposits of this size. Specify the number of shirts and sizes in the "email subject" field of the PayPal form like this: Shirts - 1 XL - 1 SM (See the Cafe Press site (http://cafepress.com/sdperlmonger) for sizes and samples.) Put any notes about the shirts or delivery options (see below) in the "Note" field of the form. 3. At 2:30pm, I'll make a next-day order for all the shirts for which I've received deposits. 4. After the order is placed, I'll figure out the cost of each shirt and send you a balance by e-mail. This can be paid two ways: 4a. Hand me a check (or cash) when I hand over the shirt (see below). 4b. Use any non-credit-card PayPal function before I hand over the shirt. 5. I'll hand out the shirts at the Perl Conference before Larry's State of the Onion speech. Larry's speech is at 7pm on Tuesday the 24th, so we should meet between 6pm and 6:30pm in front of the O'Reilly book booth. It'll be hard to miss, and I'll be wearing my keen JALPH shirt. 5a. If you're anxious to get your mitts on a shirt early, you can call me at work (858-622-1164, ask for Chris) to set up a different meeting time. I'll be at the conference most of next week, but I'll be at work the rest of the time. (Sleep is for the weak! You will be assimilated! Er... :) 5b. IMPORTANT! If you don't pay for your shirt by 6:30pm on Tuesday, the deposit will be used to subsidize the sale of your shirt to the nearest willing Perl Monger or other interested party. Any shirt left over from this process will become my property, and I'm likely to be a bastard and sell them for an even higher price later. If you don't need a shirt until after the conference, buy it straight from the CafePress site and use regular shipping. I think that covers it. Feel free to call me at 858-622-1164 if you have any questions. Thanks, ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Thu Jul 19 13:36:31 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Stepped in a pile of shirt (webmail woes). In-Reply-To: <3B5701FE.7760DAB2@velocigen.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > ~sdpm~ > > Kudos to Anthony! That's one great-looking shirt. Agreed! > Count me in for one. Me too! > 5. I'll hand out the shirts at the Perl Conference before Larry's State > of the Onion speech. Larry's speech is at 7pm on Tuesday the 24th, so we > should meet between 6pm and 6:30pm in front of the O'Reilly book booth. > It'll be hard to miss, and I'll be wearing my keen JALPH shirt. For everyone's knowledge, we are planning all meetings to begin at the O'Reilly book booth. Since different people are attending on different days, just pick a time and meet there. I propose that there be a general 12-noon meet there everyday for any Perl Mongers that are interested in getting lunch together. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Thu Jul 19 13:57:50 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Stepped in a pile of shirt. References: Message-ID: <3B572DAE.985C62C6@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Bob Kleemann wrote: > I propose that there be a general > 12-noon meet there everyday for any Perl Mongers that are interested in > getting lunch together. > Great idea! I'll be there for lunch on Tuesday and Friday at least. ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jul 19 14:32:58 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Stepped in a pile of shirt (webmail woes). In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Kleemann writes: >> 5. I'll hand out the shirts at the Perl Conference before Larry's State >> of the Onion speech. Larry's speech is at 7pm on Tuesday the 24th, so we >> should meet between 6pm and 6:30pm in front of the O'Reilly book booth. >> It'll be hard to miss, and I'll be wearing my keen JALPH shirt. If you could throw in an order for another large, I'd be happy to reimburse someone with either a shirt in kind, or cash, or my autograph, or something. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 19 21:38:01 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1? Message-ID: ~sdpm~ ... or more specifically, the conference passes we have available to us from the link kindly provided: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/create/ord_os01 Only the /keynote/ speeches were mentioned specifically with regard to which parts of the conference we may access using this pass. Are other sessions also going to be available? CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jul 19 22:20:55 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "cabney" == cabney writes: cabney> ~sdpm~ cabney> ... or more specifically, the conference passes we have available to us cabney> from the link kindly provided: cabney> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/create/ord_os01 cabney> Only the /keynote/ speeches were mentioned specifically with regard to cabney> which parts of the conference we may access using this pass. Are other cabney> sessions also going to be available? I don't see the word "keynote" on that page. I do see that you can make a free "exhibit hall" pass (hall pass, heh) with that page. Is that what you're talking about? If you're talking about a paid pass, then that gets you into the main conference, including keynotes. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 19 22:25:59 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On 19 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > cabney> Only the /keynote/ speeches were mentioned specifically with regard to > cabney> which parts of the conference we may access using this pass. Are other > cabney> sessions also going to be available? > > I don't see the word "keynote" on that page. I do see that you can > make a free "exhibit hall" pass (hall pass, heh) with that page. Is > that what you're talking about? Sorry I didn't clarify, Randy: this is in regard to an earlier post to the ML in which it was made clear the "Exhibit Only" passes provided on that page also gave the holder access to the keynotes, and Larry's Onion speech. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 19 22:35:14 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: fyi, was (Perl Conference (fwd)) Message-ID: ~sdpm~ just to clarify... CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:36:16 -0700 From: Chris Radcliff To: San Diego Perl Mongers Subject: Perl Conference ~sdpm~ For all those wondering how to get into parts of the Perl Conference for free, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/create/ord_os01 Ignore all the paid choices and choose "Exhibit Hall Only" - despite the name, the same pass will get you into all the keynotes as well as Larry's speech on Tuesday night. Let me know if you have questions. ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Fri Jul 20 09:04:35 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. References: Message-ID: <3B583A73.2010504@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ cabney wrote: > Only the /keynote/ speeches were mentioned specifically with regard to > which parts of the conference we may access using this pass. Are other > sessions also going to be available? > Actually, Randal's right. No "sessions" are included with the Exhibit Hall pass. Of course, my observation from previous shows is that keynotes, esp. Larry's State of the Onion, classify more along the lines of "events" or "mobs" with all sorts of people wandering in and out. My feeling is that a group of folks with local Perl Mongers t-shirts and nominative passes aren't likely to be ejected from the area. :) Next year, perhaps we can get ORA to set up a special Perl Mongers Pass that gets you in for a nominal fee to specially-marked events. If anyone runs into Nat Torkington or other OSCON bigwigs, plant the idea in their heads... Oh, and one other thing. Keep an eye out for new answers to that question I had a while back: "Which companies use Perl?" Let me know if you see companies being represented. Thanks! Cheers, ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Fri Jul 20 09:09:23 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Programming language usage stats] Message-ID: <3B583B93.5070901@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ This might be of interest to the group, along the lines of the "Who uses Perl?" question. ~c Parand Darugar wrote: > Interesting read in the July 9th, 2001 (issue 28), > page 12 of Infoworld: > > Apparently Sun conducted a survey on its Solaris > Developer Connection site, asking: > "What language do you use to develop Web-based client > applications?" > > Results: > > Perl 41.3% > JSP 19.9% > C/C++ 14.2% > PHP 11.2% > MS ASP 8.8% > Other 4.3% > > The low ASP numbers can be attributed to this poll being > hosted on a Solaris developer site, but clearly Perl is the > leader. A Sun conducted poll tells us less than 20% of > developers use Java. Food for thought. > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at cts.com Fri Jul 20 10:47:06 2001 From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Question/problem Message-ID: <200107201551.IAA62044@usagi.cts.com> ~sdpm~ The following snippet is to stick around until rl = 0. It lies and passes through even though rl = 1. I've tried many ways to do this. They all lie. At the meeting, someone suggested FINISH. I have not found a way to use FINISH that doesn't bomb. ========================== my ($rv); $dbh->do("UPDATE $TableName SET rl = 0 WHERE ID = $ID");#reset rl do { $rv = $dbh->selectrow_array("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM $TableName WHERE ID = $ID AND !rl");# examine rl } until $rv; } -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: Fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Fri Jul 20 12:36:25 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Question/problem In-Reply-To: <200107201551.IAA62044@usagi.cts.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Joel Fentin wrote: > ~sdpm~ > The following snippet is to stick around until rl = 0. It lies and passes > through even though rl = 1. I've tried many ways to do this. They all lie. > > At the meeting, someone suggested FINISH. I have not found a way to use > FINISH that doesn't bomb. finish only works on statement handles. To get a statement handle for the code you are using below, you'd want to do the following: my $sth = $dbh->prepare("UPDATE $TableName SET rl = ? WHERE ID = ?"); $sth->execute(0, $ID); $sth->finish(); And for the select it would look like: my $sth = $dbh->prepare("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM $TableName WHERE ID = ? AND !rl"); $sth->execute($ID); my ($rv) = $sth->fetchrow_array(); $sth->finish(); Of course I'd only recommend making these changes if you need/want the extra functionality/error handling that can be achieved with them. Otherwise I'd stick with your method witht the change noted below. > ========================== > > my ($rv); > $dbh->do("UPDATE $TableName SET rl = 0 WHERE ID = $ID");#reset rl > do > { Put parenthesis around the $rv in this statement: ($rv) = $dbh->selectrow_array("..."); If you don't then $rv is going to have the number of elements in the array that selectrow_array returned. > $rv = $dbh->selectrow_array("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM $TableName WHERE ID = > $ID AND !rl");# examine rl > } > until $rv; > } > > -- > Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 > > email: joel@fentin.com web: Fentin.com > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Fri Jul 20 13:12:31 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Programming language usage stats] Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB5508B@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ Here's the final results though. I wonder how JSP caught up so much so quickly? And why there's two JSP's listed? :-) http://soldc.sun.com/polls/past_polls/poll_week3.jshtml > Results: > > Perl 41.3% > JSP 19.9% > C/C++ 14.2% > PHP 11.2% > MS ASP 8.8% > Other 4.3% ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Fri Jul 20 13:54:56 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Question/problem In-Reply-To: <200107201551.IAA62044@usagi.cts.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Joel Fentin wrote: > ~sdpm~ > The following snippet is to stick around until rl = 0. It lies and passes > through even though rl = 1. I've tried many ways to do this. They all lie. Force an array context for that behavior: selectrow_array @row_ary = $dbh->selectrow_array($statement); @row_ary = $dbh->selectrow_array($statement, \%attr); @row_ary = $dbh->selectrow_array($statement, \%attr, @bind_values); This utility method combines the prepare, execute, and fetchrow_array entries elsewhere in this documentinto a single call. If called in a list context it returns the first row of data from the statement. If called in a scalar context it returns the first field of the first row. The $statement parameter can be a previously prepared statement handle in which case the prepare is skipped. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 17:43:55 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Free Dmitry Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720153718.0310ab30@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> ~sdpm~ Hola PerlMongers, Have any of you been following this flap? http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov The list has attracted over 400 subscribers in the first two days of its existence. Traffic is running around 50 messages/hour and bursts to 100 ... There will be alot of activity at the OSCON this next week protesting the Sklavsky Affair and the DMCA. For those who might be intrested, I suggest that all those concerned with this issue who are in San Diego by Sunday evening can meet at say: 8:00 PM in the Lobby Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina 1380 Harbor Island Drive San Diego, California 92101 This is really a natural place for old friends attending the OSCON to meet first anyway. We just hold up a few "FREE DMITRY" signs and then self-organize from there. If it is crowd then we will find a place to take it. Hotels have plenty of places for crowds. Hope to see you there, Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From rkleeman at energoncube.net Fri Jul 20 18:11:17 2001 From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Free Dmitry In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720153718.0310ab30@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Be aware of this though: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/20/2045220&mode=thread EFF Gets Meeting With Adobe, Protest Cancelled [The Courts] Posted by Hemos on 12:41 PM July 20th, 2001 from the making-progress dept. A number of people have sent in the e-mail that just crossed the free-sklyarov mailing list, that essentially states that the EFF and Adobe will have a meeting July 23rd. They are putting planned proest on hold. Click below for more information. h-=- Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, July 23. For that reason, EFF has decided to: PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD Please help us act in good faith and postpone the protest until we have a chance to negotiate with Adobe. Of course, we can always rekindle the protest if Adobe does not agree to withdraw their complaint to the US Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov and to refuse to pursue further prosecutions under the DMCA for cases that should be prevented under fair use provisions of US copyright law. And also, if the US Attorney's office insists on prosecuting Dmitry without a current complaint from Adobe, then we will continue protests directed at them rather than at Adobe. If you still feel that you have to protest on Monday, you are of course free to do so. However, it may be a more effective use of our collective energies to act in a coordinated way to get Dmitry out of jail. I am writing a media release to this effect as soon as I sent this email to you... wanted you all to know first. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Bob La Quey wrote: > ~sdpm~ > Hola PerlMongers, > > Have any of you been following this flap? > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > The list has attracted over 400 subscribers in the first two days of > its existence. Traffic is running around 50 messages/hour and bursts > to 100 ... > > There will be alot of activity at the OSCON this next week > protesting the Sklavsky Affair and the DMCA. For those > who might be intrested, I suggest that all those concerned > with this issue who are in San Diego by Sunday evening can > meet at say: > > 8:00 PM in the Lobby > Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina > 1380 Harbor Island Drive > San Diego, California 92101 > > This is really a natural place for old friends attending the > OSCON to meet first anyway. We just hold up a few "FREE DMITRY" > signs and then self-organize from there. If it is crowd then > we will find a place to take it. Hotels have plenty of places > for crowds. > > Hope to see you there, > > > Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > ~sdpm~ > > The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org > > List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to with the following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From kilna at kilna.com Mon Jul 23 10:24:53 2001 From: kilna at kilna.com (KILNA) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Lunch Meeting Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010723081807.00a2e020@wheresmymailserver.com> ~sdpm~ Hey I won't be able to be there right at noon, but if someone wants to give me a call on my mobile phone at 619-723-2202 I can probably meet up with you at whatever location you've chosen. :) Today's my only day there, 'cept for tomorrow night's Larry Wall speech. -Anthony ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 23 12:53:48 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: <3B583A73.2010504@velocigen.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > cabney wrote: > > > Only the /keynote/ speeches were mentioned specifically with regard to > > which parts of the conference we may access using this pass. Are other > > sessions also going to be available? > > Actually, Randal's right. No "sessions" are included with the Exhibit > Hall pass. Of course, my observation from previous shows is that > keynotes, esp. Larry's State of the Onion, classify more along the lines > of "events" or "mobs" with all sorts of people wandering in and out. My > feeling is that a group of folks with local Perl Mongers t-shirts and > nominative passes aren't likely to be ejected from the area. :) Ok, with all due respect, "in spite of the name, those passes will get you..." is a *LOT* different from "it worked for me last year." I suggest that if, in the future, you want to make an announcement on a list for which you seem to have some official capacity, that you speak more carefully and make sure you've done your homework before you make overreaching statements. That way, you won't mislead anyone. Thank you for your time. > Next year, perhaps we can get ORA to set up a special Perl Mongers Pass > that gets you in for a nominal fee to specially-marked events. If anyone > runs into Nat Torkington or other OSCON bigwigs, plant the idea in their > heads... CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Mon Jul 23 16:19:10 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB55093@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > > cabney wrote: > > > > > Only the /keynote/ speeches were mentioned specifically > with regard to > > > which parts of the conference we may access using this > pass. Are other > > > sessions also going to be available? > > > > Actually, Randal's right. No "sessions" are included with > the Exhibit > > Hall pass. Of course, my observation from previous shows is that > > keynotes, esp. Larry's State of the Onion, classify more > along the lines > > of "events" or "mobs" with all sorts of people wandering in > and out. My > > feeling is that a group of folks with local Perl Mongers > t-shirts and > > nominative passes aren't likely to be ejected from the area. :) > > Ok, with all due respect, "in spite of the name, those passes will get > you..." is a *LOT* different from "it worked for me last > year." I suggest > that if, in the future, you want to make an announcement on a list for > which you seem to have some official capacity, that you speak more > carefully and make sure you've done your homework before you make > overreaching statements. And after a wasted trip over to the Sheraton, I found out that Exhibit hall registrations are not even being done until Wednesday (Makes sense now that I see the exhibit hall schedule here: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/w/os2001/exhibitors.html) So anyway, if you decide to crash anything before then, you'll have to do it completely unregistered... -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Mon Jul 23 17:07:32 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. References: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB55093@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> Message-ID: <3B5CA024.9CA051A1@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ "cabney" wrote: > > Ok, with all due respect, "in spite of the name, those passes will get > > you..." is a *LOT* different from "it worked for me last > > year." Actually, at the PM meeting I said the latter in just as many words. Apologies if I paraphrased myself too tersely on the list. I am not an official of O'Reilly or the Perl Mongers, but I wouldn't suggest something I wouldn't do myself. In fact, my wife Karen signed up in the exact way I recommended on the list, for the exact same reason. Doug Wilson added: > And after a wasted trip over to the Sheraton, I found out that > Exhibit hall registrations are not even being done until > Wednesday. > Oddly enough, this is another YMMV situation. Karen got her Exhibit hall pass on Sunday with no problems. Of course, that might have been a pre-registration/on-site difference. Dunno. I'm currently inquiring after the official word from O'Reilly about unregistered Perl Mongers at Larry's talk. I'll forward any responses to the list. Cheers, ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jul 23 17:18:44 2001 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB55093@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> References: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB55093@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ >>>>> "Wilson," == Wilson, Doug writes: Wilson,> So anyway, if you decide to crash anything before then, you'll Wilson,> have to do it completely unregistered... The security here is completely lax. You could come in and out of all the tutorials and no-one would even look at you funny. I can't promise that the keynote tomorrow night will be as open, but certainly the tutorials aren't gonna get much tighter. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From joel at cts.com Mon Jul 23 17:43:24 2001 From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: Question/problem In-Reply-To: References: <200107201551.IAA62044@usagi.cts.com> Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.20010723154324.007b3100@crash.cts.com> ~sdpm~ Thank you all. I've quite a lot to digest. -- Joel Fentin tel: 760-749-8863 FAX: 760-749-8864 email: joel@fentin.com web: fentin.com ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Mon Jul 23 17:47:13 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB55096@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ Sorry merlyn, meant to send this to the list... > >>>>> "Wilson," == Wilson, Doug writes: > > Wilson,> So anyway, if you decide to crash anything before > then, you'll > Wilson,> have to do it completely unregistered... > > The security here is completely lax. You could come in and out of all > the tutorials and no-one would even look at you funny. I thought about hanging out until the afternoon tutorials, but decided to get back to work. I wandered through the hallways where some of the classes were but didn't stick around. I'm going to try to hit some BOF's tonight :) -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 23 20:17:07 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: <3B5CA024.9CA051A1@velocigen.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > "cabney" wrote: > > > Ok, with all due respect, "in spite of the name, those passes will get > > > you..." is a *LOT* different from "it worked for me last > > > year." > > Actually, at the PM meeting I said the latter in just as many words. > Apologies if I paraphrased myself too tersely on the list. I am not an > official of O'Reilly or the Perl Mongers, but I wouldn't suggest > something I wouldn't do myself. In fact, my wife Karen signed up in > the exact way I recommended on the list, for the exact same reason. "Cliff Radcliff would do it" isn't a metric I'm familiar with in my quest for moral valuations. :) CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 23 20:25:39 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: > "Cliff Radcliff would do it" isn't a metric I'm familiar with in my ^^^^^ oops. 8-o CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Mon Jul 23 20:48:50 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. References: Message-ID: <3B5CD402.8040607@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ cabney wrote: > "Cliff Radcliff would do it" isn't a metric I'm familiar with in my > quest for moral valuations. :) > Ah, then you haven't heard what a boy scout I tend to be. :) Come on, my social highlight of the year is TPC. I'm taking my *wife*, for cryin' out loud. :) Just picture George Zimmerman saying "I guarantee it" and you've got the idea. Okay, maybe that's going too far. BTW, I've been called many things in my life, but "Cliff" is new. ;) ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 23 21:04:19 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: <3B5CD402.8040607@velocigen.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > cabney wrote: > > > "Cliff Radcliff would do it" isn't a metric I'm familiar with in my > > quest for moral valuations. :) > > Ah, then you haven't heard what a boy scout I tend to be. :) Come on, my > social highlight of the year is TPC. I'm taking my *wife*, for cryin' > out loud. :) Well, I had something similar in mind and had no intention of putting her in the position of making a choice between life as usual and the gulag archipelago. :) > BTW, I've been called many things in my life, but "Cliff" is new. ;) Yeah, not sure where that came from... CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 23 22:17:43 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: <3B5CD402.8040607@velocigen.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > cabney wrote: > > "Cliff Radcliff would do it" isn't a metric I'm familiar with in my > > quest for moral valuations. :) > > Ah, then you haven't heard what a boy scout I tend to be. :) Come on, my > social highlight of the year is TPC. I'm taking my *wife*, for cryin' > out loud. :) No excuses here, just want to tell you I'm sorry that I went off half-cocked, and I apologize for my behavior. Next time I'll reread the FAQ[1], and count to ten. [1] there really is a FAQ about this sort of thing... CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Mon Jul 23 22:26:55 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Incidentally, somewhere along the line of this thread I forwarded a copy of the transcript to said SO, and she (being the SNL fan she is) asked for a clarification of Happy-Fun-Ball: from http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/happy-fun-ball.html : ====================================== Happy Fun Ball It's Happy! It's Fun! It's Happy Fun Ball! Yes, Happy Fun Ball, the toy sensation that's sweeping the nation. Only $14.95 at particpating stores! Get one Today! Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Fun Ball. Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds. Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. Discontinue use of Happy Fun Ball if any of the following occurs: Itching Vertigo Dizziness Tingling in extremities Loss of balance or coordination Slurred speech Temporary Blindness Profuse sweating Heart Palpitations If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head. Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types of skin. When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration... Failure to do so relieves the makers of Happy Fun Ball, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability. Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space. Happy Fun Ball has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Happy Fun Ball comes with a lifetime guarantee. Happy Fun Ball: ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES! Richard L. Pieri CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Tue Jul 24 08:53:05 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Exhibit hall pass / State of the Onion] Message-ID: <3B5D7DC1.5030201@velocigen.com> Just for the official word, here's the reply from O'Reilly: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Linda Holder Subject: Re: Exhibit hall pass / State of the Onion Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:12:24 -0700 Size: 1658 Url: http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010724/bca29aef/StateoftheOnion.eml From cabney at cyberpass.net Tue Jul 24 09:28:13 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Exhibit hall pass / State of the Onion] In-Reply-To: <3B5D7DC1.5030201@velocigen.com> Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Chris Radcliff wrote: > Just for the official word, here's the reply from O'Reilly: Thanks for the help! CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Tue Jul 24 10:28:12 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB55099@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ > > cabney wrote: > > > > > "Cliff Radcliff would do it" isn't a metric I'm familiar > with in my > > > quest for moral valuations. :) > Well, I had something similar in mind and had no intention of > putting her in > the position of making a choice between life as usual and the gulag > archipelago. :) I must have been morally corrupted from early on, then, because though I've never been to a Perl Conference, I've gone with my wife to Archeology conferences, and my experience is that security-wise, they're all about the same (and the same as this). See the exhibits, pop in to a lecture on excavation of Scandinavian coastal villages, etc, mostly just passing time waiting for my wife. And it was about the same at the Informix conference that was here about a year or so ago. Saw the keynotes, and attended an evening BOF. So maybe I've just been conditioned to the fact that generally, no one cares about whether you're registered or not. Though if you can get your company to pay for it, or at least have a corporation to write off the expense against, then that's a bonus (or if I could afford it...). So, while you could easily make the argument that its 'wrong' to attend without paying, I could also make (maybe a somewhat lame) argument that they just don't have a price structure that fits me. I'd glady pay 10,20, maybe $30 to hear Larry speak, but not $1000. And it would be a waste for me to pay $1000 since I'm not attending the whole conference; I've got to work this week :-) -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Tue Jul 24 18:54:25 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Yours truly, both morally bereft and poor, will see all of you in an hour or so. :) Anthony Kilna - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 >>> "Wilson, Doug" 07/24/01 08:28AM >>> ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Tue Jul 24 19:03:13 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: A clarification regarding OS2k1. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Anthony Kilna wrote: > Yours truly, both morally bereft and poor, will see all of you in an hour or so. :) Hey well, if someone's taken something from you you should call da cops. Me I've got 'em somewhere, in a drawer here, maybe. Uh, mine, not yours. CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From todd.rockhold at ontogen.com Wed Jul 25 01:33:21 2001 From: todd.rockhold at ontogen.com (Todd Rockhold) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: OS2k1 tidbits Message-ID: <01Jul24.234929pdt.118081@gateway.ontogen.com> ~sdpm~ OK. Two things. First: Who has some good one-liners from the OS2k1 tutorials/events so far? I heard a couple today. During the Inline and C and C++ class Brian Ingerson said that "some of the diehard XS guys still aren't drinking the Koolaid". Later in the keynote Larry Wall (what - a good one-liner from Larry Wall ???) said that "a cat is defined as an animal that's always on the wrong side of the door". Anyone have some others? Second: After the keynote tonight there was in impromptu San Diego Perl Mongers meeting at Hooters in the gaslamp with none other than Merlyn. Good beer, good wings, good stories. One item of note: the litigation begun several years ago while Randal was consulting at Intel is NOT a thing of the past, but is still underway. That came as a surprise to a few of us around the table, and Randal mentioned that a lot of people who have heard about it think that it is all over with. ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Wed Jul 25 15:02:15 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: more RE: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ I can't leave this alone (I have a GD cgi script for visualization :-) Some refactoring of the in_poly subroutine... On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: > ### > # is a point x,y inside a polygon defined by @poly? > sub in_poly > { > my ( $x, $y, @poly ) = @_; > my $c = 0; > my @ladder = slice ( $x, @poly ); > > while (@ladder) > { > my $rung = shift @ladder; > > # special case: we're on the edge > if ( $y == $rung ) { > # trailing edge > $c++ unless $c % 2; > } > # we know we're on-edge/encompassed-by the polygon > last if ( $y <= $rung ); > > # odd is in, even is out (promote diversity!) > $c++; > } > return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; > } ### # is a point x,y inside a polygon defined by @poly? sub in_poly { my ( $x, $y, @poly ) = @_; my $c = 0; my @ladder = slice ( $x, @poly ); while ( (my $rung) = shift @ladder ) { last if ( $y <= $rung && ($c%2) ); $c++; } return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; } Hmm, would I have to pay my employer for a negative line count in my productivity assessment? Maybe I shoulda got it right the first time... Where can I get one of those buzzers Larry Wall was using to keep him on a given topic for a limited time? CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From schoon at amgt.com Wed Jul 25 15:22:27 2001 From: schoon at amgt.com (schoon@amgt.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: more RE: Polygons & Nodal Points... Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Thanks for all the ideas on this one.. It has kept my brain tied up for a while! Caused major problems during the tutorials @ TPC5..... Had a blast! I've actually thought of an easier way to determine if a point is inside the polygon.... It looks like set theory to the rescue!! My idea is to create a grid using the dimensions of the subelements as one set of points. Then, using the vertices of the polygon as the second set, determine which points are outside the polygon - IE simply not in the union set of points.... Gotta check maperl, but it might be easier this way.... Two more simple changes to current projects and I can spend some time with the book.... .mark >---------- >From: cabney[SMTP:cabney@cyberpass.net] >Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 1:02 PM >To: Mark Schoonover >Cc: san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org >Subject: more RE: Polygons & Nodal Points... > >I can't leave this alone (I have a GD cgi script for visualization :-) > >Some refactoring of the in_poly subroutine... > >On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: >> ### >> # is a point x,y inside a polygon defined by @poly? >> sub in_poly >> { >> my ( $x, $y, @poly ) = @_; >> my $c = 0; >> my @ladder = slice ( $x, @poly ); >> >> while (@ladder) >> { >> my $rung = shift @ladder; >> >> # special case: we're on the edge >> if ( $y == $rung ) { >> # trailing edge >> $c++ unless $c % 2; >> } >> # we know we're on-edge/encompassed-by the polygon >> last if ( $y <= $rung ); >> >> # odd is in, even is out (promote diversity!) >> $c++; >> } >> return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; >> } > >### ># is a point x,y inside a polygon defined by @poly? >sub in_poly >{ > my ( $x, $y, @poly ) = @_; > my $c = 0; > > my @ladder = slice ( $x, @poly ); > > while ( (my $rung) = shift @ladder ) > { > last if ( $y <= $rung && ($c%2) ); > $c++; > } > return ($c % 2) ? "hit!" : "miss!"; >} > >Hmm, would I have to pay my employer for a negative line count in my >productivity assessment? Maybe I shoulda got it right the first time... > >Where can I get one of those buzzers Larry Wall was using to keep him >on a given topic for a limited time? > >CA >-- >There was a time >A wind that blew so young >For this could be the biggest sky >And I could have the faintest idea > > > ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 26 10:23:32 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:24 2004 Subject: more RE: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ This statement turns out to do something different than I expected: while ( (my $rung) = shift @ladder ) { # ... } I thought assignment of $rung returned the value assigned to it, but it seems to be returning a true regardless of whether something is there to assign. while ( my $rung = shift @ladder ) { # ... } helped, but I can't recall what prompted me to put those damn parens there in the first place! :-p So in the first example, am I right in thinking (my $rung) is being eval'd in a list context, in which case I'm getting a -1 return value when @ladder has been cleared? [just as an aside, perlfunc has no while() entry, at least my v5.6.1] CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From cabney at cyberpass.net Thu Jul 26 11:17:06 2001 From: cabney at cyberpass.net (cabney) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:25 2004 Subject: more RE: Polygons & Nodal Points... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~sdpm~ On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, cabney wrote: > while ( my $rung = shift @ladder ) > { > # ... > } oops, make that: while ( defined ( my $rung = shift @ladder ) ) or a zero value for $rung will throw you out of the loop! CA -- There was a time A wind that blew so young For this could be the biggest sky And I could have the faintest idea ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From Doug_Wilson at intuit.com Thu Jul 26 11:31:48 2001 From: Doug_Wilson at intuit.com (Wilson, Doug) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:25 2004 Subject: more RE: Polygons & Nodal Points... Message-ID: <35A280DF784CD411A06B0008C7B130ADB550A1@sdex04.sd.intuit.com> ~sdpm~ > while ( (my $rung) = shift @ladder ) > So in the first example, am I right in thinking (my $rung) is being > eval'd in a list context, in which case I'm getting a -1 return value > when @ladder has been cleared? Almost. Even the list (undef) is a list with one undefined element, so its value in scalar context is one (boolean true). Shift returns a scalar, so you should not have parens around your lvalues anyway. -Doug ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From anthony at zoovy.com Thu Jul 26 14:45:59 2001 From: anthony at zoovy.com (Anthony Kilna) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:25 2004 Subject: Hey Randal Message-ID: ~sdpm~ Nice par-tay. We'll get more hooters girls next time around... I'll help get the word out before the next TPC. :) Anthony Kilna - anthony@zoovy.com - 1-877-966-8948 x112 ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From chris at velocigen.com Fri Jul 27 09:48:32 2001 From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:25 2004 Subject: State of the Onion Message-ID: <3B617F40.1060503@velocigen.com> ~sdpm~ Hi Mongers, In case you weren't at Larry's talk on Tuesday (and you don't read Slashdot), here's an O'Reilly synopsis: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/07/25/onion.html The site seems to be down at the moment, but the link should work eventually. Cheers, ~chris ~sdpm~ The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. From todd.rockhold at ontogen.com Tue Jul 31 21:41:23 2001 From: todd.rockhold at ontogen.com (Todd Rockhold) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:20:25 2004 Subject: FW: [JXTA discuss] Proposal: JXTAperl - A Perl Implementation of JXTA. Message-ID: <01Jul31.195753pdt.118081@gateway.ontogen.com> Thought I'd pass this along. I'm way too busy to take on something like this now, but maybe somebody out there in happy-fun-ball land would be interested. -----Original Message----- From: Nyk Cowham [mailto:ncowham@forumone.com] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:10 PM To: discuss@www.jxta.org Subject: [JXTA discuss] Proposal: JXTAperl - A Perl Implementation of JXTA. Greetings: I'm a new convert to JXTA (I've been messing with the Groove API, but I prefer the open standards/open source approach of JXTA). Anyway, I'm a Perl programmer and would like to develop JXTA based applications with my favourite tool. Are there any other Perl developers who would be interested in working with me to implement the JXTA protocols as Perl modules? It may be that we would want to wait for the C port project to come to fruition and build an XS or SWIG binding to those libraries, but I would prefer to implement JXTA in pure Perl. Anyone interested? Nyk Cowham Forum One Communications http://www.forumone.com/ Communicate Collaborate Change the world -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Nyk Cowham.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 211 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/san-diego-pm/attachments/20010731/5b5319ad/NykCowham.vcf -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: discuss-unsubscribe@jxta.org For additional commands, e-mail: discuss-help@jxta.org