From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Sat Apr  1 17:16:40 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Navbar generator?
Message-ID: <200004012314.SAA16214@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~

I'm putting together a web site for a small company, basically 
placing their catalog online.  I want to have a nice, heirarchical 
navigation bar on each page, and I don't want to rely on any fancy 
client-side features, such as javascript, to display it.  

I'm planning to approach this by having a PERL script process 
each page in the site, inserting the appropriate nav bar code into 
each page.  I figure that the main input to the script would be a file 
containing:

1. what HTML code to use in order to display each level in the 
heirarchy;

and 

2. a  description of the heirarchy, indicating which source file 
occupies which position

The source files would have a special tag (e.g., <navbar/>) that the 
script would replace with the code generated in this manner.

Before I go off and design/write this thing from scratch, It occurred 
to me to see if anyone knows whether such a thing already exists.

Any suggestions?  (Yes, this is right on topic for what was 
supposed to have been presented at last month's meeting!)

...Russ
~sdpm~

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From eugenet at mailcity.com  Sat Apr  1 21:23:49 2000
From: eugenet at mailcity.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Navbar generator?
Message-ID: <GIEGDOFNIOCCJAAA@mailcity.com>

~sdpm~
See Perl Journal Issue #12 (Volume 3, Issue 4, Winter98). It's got an article on dynamically generating navigation bars by Lincoln Stein.


--

On Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:16:40    Russ Schnapp wrote:
>~sdpm~
>
>I'm putting together a web site for a small company, basically 
>placing their catalog online.  I want to have a nice, heirarchical 
>navigation bar on each page, and I don't want to rely on any fancy 
>client-side features, such as javascript, to display it.  
>
>I'm planning to approach this by having a PERL script process 
>each page in the site, inserting the appropriate nav bar code into 
>each page.  I figure that the main input to the script would be a file 
>containing:
>
>1. what HTML code to use in order to display each level in the 
>heirarchy;
>
>and 
>
>2. a  description of the heirarchy, indicating which source file 
>occupies which position
>
>The source files would have a special tag (e.g., <navbar/>) that the 
>script would replace with the code generated in this manner.
>
>Before I go off and design/write this thing from scratch, It occurred 
>to me to see if anyone knows whether such a thing already exists.
>
>Any suggestions?  (Yes, this is right on topic for what was 
>supposed to have been presented at last month's meeting!)
>
>...Russ



Send FREE April Fool's Greetings to your friends!
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~sdpm~

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From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Sun Apr  2 11:16:14 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Navbar generator?
Message-ID: <200004021610.MAA18962@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~
Eugene Tsyrklevich wrote:
> 
> ~sdpm~
> See Perl Journal Issue #12 (Volume 3, Issue 4, Winter98). It's 
got an article on dynamically generating navigation bars by Lincoln 
Stein.

Thanks for the reference.  I'm not a subscriber to Perl Journal, so I 
can't retrieve the article.  The description is...

                   A Dynamic Navigation Bar with mod_perl 10
                   Navigation bar envy, sated with Apache and Perl.
                   Lincoln D. Stein

...which sounds to me like it requires the server to be Apache, 
configured with mod_perl.  I'm not really looking for a dynamic 
solution to this problem.  Instead, I want to compile a static 
solution that will work on any http server.  I want to deliver simple, 
static pages to the customer, while remaining able to easily modify 
all the navbars in a single place.  I don't even want to burden the 
customer with a fancy CGI.  A compiler-like solution seems right to 
me.  

...Russ
~sdpm~

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From joel at cts.com  Mon Apr  3 10:09:59 2000
From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Reasonable security
Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.20000403080959.007a3c60@cts.com>

~sdpm~
Is there a simple way to pass the credit card number (from one
filling a textbox on a website) to the owner of the site? Perhaps
an example program?

In the case I am interested in, the business is run from a PC.

--
Joel Fentin    tel: 760-749-8863    FAX: 760-749-8864
 
email: joel@cts.com     web: http://efm.simplenet.com
~sdpm~

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From rschnapp at ACM.org  Mon Apr  3 10:27:33 2000
From: rschnapp at ACM.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Reasonable security
Message-ID: <200004031522.LAA23119@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~

> Is there a simple way to pass the credit card number (from one
> filling a textbox on a website) to the owner of the site? Perhaps
> an example program?

Well, if you aren't using a secure http server to retrieve the credit 
card number from the HTML form, there's not much point in 
worrying about security about getting the number from the server to 
the owner.  

Otherwise, you might consider using PGP to encrypt the number 
with the owner's public key. 
~sdpm~

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From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Mon Apr  3 10:28:28 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Reasonable security
Message-ID: <200004031523.LAA23142@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~

> Is there a simple way to pass the credit card number (from one
> filling a textbox on a website) to the owner of the site? Perhaps
> an example program?

Well, if you aren't using a secure http server to retrieve the credit 
card number from the HTML form, there's not much point in 
worrying about security about getting the number from the server to 
the owner.  

Otherwise, you might consider using PGP to encrypt the number 
with the owner's public key. 
~sdpm~

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From rschnapp at ACM.org  Mon Apr  3 17:30:31 2000
From: rschnapp at ACM.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Reasonable security
In-Reply-To: <3.0.4.32.20000403102219.007a39e0@cts.com>
References: <200004031523.LAA23142@happyfunball.pm.org>
Message-ID: <200004032225.SAA25197@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~
On 3 Apr 00, at 10:22, Joel Fentin wrote:

> >Well, if you aren't using a secure http server to retrieve the
> credit 
> >card number.......
> 
> And if I am?

Well, then, it makes sense to encrypt your data...

> =========================
> >Otherwise, you might consider using PGP to encrypt the number 
> >with the owner's public key.
> 
> I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Perhaps one of
> the following:
> 
> 1. The site sends an encrypted email attachment to the owner of
> the site (who knows nothing about computers). She has a windows
> decryption program which can open the attachment without her
> having to learn a lot of things.
> 
> 2. The encrypted credit card number is in the body of the email.
> PGP is a standard encryption of email, and her Netscape/IE/eudora
> email program will handle the details.
> 
> 3. The encrypted credit card number is appended onto the end of a
> file sitting on the server, and a Windoz/DOS based perl program
> must be written to read the file.

Yes, any of the above should work.  Instead of trying to spawn pgp 
(which was my first thought), you might want to look at CPAN 
resources for encryption.  See, for instance, 
http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html#14)Authenticati

...Russ
~sdpm~

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From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Mon Apr  3 17:31:38 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Reasonable security
Message-ID: <200004032226.SAA25212@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~
On 3 Apr 00, at 10:22, Joel Fentin wrote:

> >Well, if you aren't using a secure http server to retrieve the
> credit 
> >card number.......
> 
> And if I am?

Well, then, it makes sense to encrypt your data...

> =========================
> >Otherwise, you might consider using PGP to encrypt the number 
> >with the owner's public key.
> 
> I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Perhaps one of
> the following:
> 
> 1. The site sends an encrypted email attachment to the owner of
> the site (who knows nothing about computers). She has a windows
> decryption program which can open the attachment without her
> having to learn a lot of things.
> 
> 2. The encrypted credit card number is in the body of the email.
> PGP is a standard encryption of email, and her Netscape/IE/eudora
> email program will handle the details.
> 
> 3. The encrypted credit card number is appended onto the end of a
> file sitting on the server, and a Windoz/DOS based perl program
> must be written to read the file.

Yes, any of the above should work.  Instead of trying to spawn pgp 
(which was my first thought), you might want to look at CPAN 
resources for encryption.  See, for instance, 
http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html#14)Authenticati

...Russ
~sdpm~

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From eugenet at mailcity.com  Mon Apr  3 16:31:47 2000
From: eugenet at mailcity.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Reasonable security
Message-ID: <NCJODNMOPHHHAAAA@mailcity.com>

~sdpm~
http://www.modssl.org/
 

>Is there a simple way to pass the credit card number (from one
>filling a textbox on a website) to the owner of the site? Perhaps
>an example program?


Send FREE April Fool's Greetings to your friends!
http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/American_Greetings.rdct
~sdpm~

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From David.Finney at buzztime.com  Tue Apr  4 12:12:35 2000
From: David.Finney at buzztime.com (David Finney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Tk Question
Message-ID: <85DCBDD4878CD311AD9000062950D95320FBAE@heisman.ntn.com>

~sdpm~
When running a Perl/Tk app under windows, how can one stop the DOS console
window from minimizing to the app bar at the bottom of the screen (or
wherever you keep yours)? If the program executes flawlessly, as I'm sure
most of your apps do, it presents few problems. But if the app doesn't
start, I have to restore the DOS console to read the errors/warnings. This
dance can get a little annoying after awhile.

"On the other hand, you have different fingers"

David A. Finney
Director, Software Development
BuzzTime, Inc.
A Subsidiary of NTN Communications, Inc.
5966 La Place Court
Suite 100
Carlsbad, CA 92008
(760) 929-5281
david.finney@ntn.com
dfinney@cts.com


~sdpm~

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From chris at velocigen.com  Tue Apr  4 18:40:08 2000
From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Free passes to USENIX SD
Message-ID: <38EA7D58.461DA912@velocigen.com>

~sdpm~

Once again, VelociGen has free exhibit hall passes to the USENIX 2000
conference in San Diego this June. The VelociGen gang will be there, as
will O'Reilly and Active State. It should be a Perl tour de force!

If you'd free passes to the show, ask me at a Perl Mongers meeting or
send me your snail-mail address. We've got an unlimited supply, so take
as many as you'd like and invite your friends!

For more information on the USENIX 2000 show, see:
http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix2000/

~chris
~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Tue Apr  4 21:46:01 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Tk Question
In-Reply-To: <85DCBDD4878CD311AD9000062950D95320FBAE@heisman.ntn.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004041843000.22848-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, David Finney wrote:

> When running a Perl/Tk app under windows, how can one stop the DOS console
> window from minimizing to the app bar at the bottom of the screen (or
> wherever you keep yours)? If the program executes flawlessly, as I'm sure

Maybe if you run your apps inside a real shell?  Bash and Ksh and probably
others are all available as MSWxx ports.  Kinda extreme I guess (you take
a hit on your HD space, and are working in a new environment) but you also
get lots o really cool extra functionality, to boot. <g>

Cheers,

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr  5 00:34:36 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Free passes to USENIX SD
In-Reply-To: <38EA7D58.461DA912@velocigen.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004042129470.22848-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Chris Radcliff wrote:

> Once again, VelociGen has free exhibit hall passes to the USENIX 2000

Who's going?  I'm interested, especially in the technical part (both
talks and tutorials) but haven't exactly figured out what my yearly
allotment of paid conferences is, and there are at least two (OSS and
SC2000) that I /won't/ miss. <g>

There are some Big Guys (of each gender...) at this one.

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From chris at velocigen.com  Wed Apr  5 11:22:45 2000
From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Free passes to USENIX SD
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004042129470.22848-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>
Message-ID: <38EB6855.AE18967@velocigen.com>

~sdpm~

"C. Abney" wrote:
> Who's going?  
> 
> There are some Big Guys (of each gender...) at this one.
> 

It looks like the conference itself is fairly expensive (lots of
four-digit numbers on the Web site, at least), but the expo part is
free, at least. I'm considering at least one of the tutorials; Tom
Christiansen is giving one on Advanced CGI programming.

I've had requests for about a dozen passes so far; I won't name names in
case people want to be incognito at the show. :)

Since there are a fair number of people going and the show is
downtownish, I wouldn't be averse to having a Perl Mongers blowout at
one of the local night spots. We could invite PMers from elsewhere to
join in.

Any thoughts?

~chris
~sdpm~

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From rkleeman at neta.com  Wed Apr  5 11:43:21 2000
From: rkleeman at neta.com (Bobby Kleemann)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: SQL::Statement
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0004050941390.13838-100000@trojan>

~sdpm~
Does anyone know anything about SQL::Statement?  I'm having some problems
with it and I've written to the author with no response thusfar.  The last
time it was updated was last Aug, so I'm wondering if the author has
stopped maintaining it and I'm SOL.

 _ _ _
 Bobby Kleemann <rkleeman@neta.com>
     http://www.neta.com/~rkleeman/

~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr  5 21:46:49 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: SQL::Statement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0004050941390.13838-100000@trojan>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004051845580.25348-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Bobby Kleemann wrote:

> Does anyone know anything about SQL::Statement?

No but, if you hum a few bars... <g>

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr  5 22:03:16 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Free passes to USENIX SD
In-Reply-To: <38EB6855.AE18967@velocigen.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004051847130.25348-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Chris Radcliff wrote:

> It looks like the conference itself is fairly expensive (lots of
> four-digit numbers on the Web site, at least), but the expo part is
> free, at least. I'm considering at least one of the tutorials; Tom
> Christiansen is giving one on Advanced CGI programming.

Well, consider it resource development and stick your employer with
the tab for the full amount if it's at all possible (I always say...<g>)
You'll never come home sorry.

I think I may have to go... last time I met him I made tom sign a book
he didn't author.  I explained I already have everything he wrote and
wasn't about to buy a second copy at the O'Reilly booth, so he had to.
He was kinda pissed I think, but he signed it.

heheh, this time I'm going to bring them /all/ in and try to get him
to sign each of them (dogears notwithstanding)  yeah, in spite of myself,
I'm a suckup. oh well...

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From joel at cts.com  Wed Apr  5 23:48:18 2000
From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Free passes to USENIX SD
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004051847130.25348-100000@chimeridae.zipca
 t.com>
References: <38EB6855.AE18967@velocigen.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.20000405214818.007de8c0@cts.com>

~sdpm~
>heheh, this time I'm going to bring them /all/ in and try to get
him
>to sign each of them (dogears notwithstanding)...

Isn't there something in the bylaws about groupies?
--
Joel Fentin    tel: 760-749-8863    FAX: 760-749-8864
 
email: joel@cts.com     web: http://efm.simplenet.com
~sdpm~

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From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Thu Apr  6 12:21:29 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Tk for Mac?
Message-ID: <200004061716.NAA12093@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~
Does anyone know if a Perl/Tk port exists for the Mac platform?
~sdpm~

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From artlung at artlung.com  Thu Apr  6 15:30:48 2000
From: artlung at artlung.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Tk for Mac?
In-Reply-To: <200004061716.NAA12093@happyfunball.pm.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10004061627250.9581-100000@dyyme.pair.com>

~sdpm~
On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Russ Schnapp wrote:
> Does anyone know if a Perl/Tk port exists for the Mac platform?

Well - there's MacPerl:
	http://www.macperl.com/
And there's Tcl/tk for the Mac
	http://dev.scriptics.com/software/mac/

But as for integration -check this FAQ answer:
http://dev.scriptics.com/software/mac/macFAQ.html#Q12.1

What are you trying to *do*?
	- Joe
--
Joe Crawford...........electronic mail -> mailto:joe@artlung.com
member......international mailing list -> http://evolt.org/
founder..San Diego/CA/USA mailing list -> http://www.websandiego.org/
Web Designer/etc.............about(me) -> http://www.artlung.com/


~sdpm~

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From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Thu Apr  6 16:27:41 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Tk for Mac?
Message-ID: <200004062122.RAA13168@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~

> But as for integration -check this FAQ answer:
> http://dev.scriptics.com/software/mac/macFAQ.html#Q12.1

Ewww!  Sockets?   Ick.

> What are you trying to *do*?

My client developed a cute little PERL script that does some useful 
manipulation to an HTML file.  They need to be able to migrate it 
from the command line to a GUI, so less god-like folk can use it.  
These users might be on a Mac, might be on Windows, or might 
even be on Linux.  Perl/Tk seemed the best way to achieve this.

Failing that, perhaps we'll have to resort to Tcl/Tk as a (gack!) front 
end to running the PERL script.  Pretty darned silly, though.  I was 
already cringing at the idea of making these folks install PERL and 
then have them use PPM to install Tk.  Making them install PERL 
and Tcl/Tk would be that much worse, especially for such a simple 
script.  

Sigh.  If only I had the time to spend on porting Perl/Tk.  I suspect 
I'd have to learn A LOT more about Mac OS.

...Russ
~sdpm~

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From artlung at artlung.com  Thu Apr  6 16:43:01 2000
From: artlung at artlung.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Tk for Mac?
In-Reply-To: <200004062122.RAA13168@happyfunball.pm.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10004061737210.9581-100000@dyyme.pair.com>

~sdpm~
On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Russ Schnapp wrote:
> > But as for integration -check this FAQ answer:
> > http://dev.scriptics.com/software/mac/macFAQ.html#Q12.1
> 
> Ewww!  Sockets?   Ick.
> 
> > What are you trying to *do*?
> 
> My client developed a cute little PERL script that does some useful 
> manipulation to an HTML file.  They need to be able to migrate it 
> from the command line to a GUI, so less god-like folk can use it.  
> These users might be on a Mac, might be on Windows, or might 
> even be on Linux.  Perl/Tk seemed the best way to achieve this.
> 
> Failing that, perhaps we'll have to resort to Tcl/Tk as a (gack!) front 
> end to running the PERL script.  Pretty darned silly, though.  I was 
> already cringing at the idea of making these folks install PERL and 
> then have them use PPM to install Tk.  Making them install PERL 
> and Tcl/Tk would be that much worse, especially for such a simple 
> script.  
> 
> Sigh.  If only I had the time to spend on porting Perl/Tk.  I suspect 
> I'd have to learn A LOT more about Mac OS.

Well - the latest full version of BBEdit (a Mac based text editor) has
perl or rather MacPerl very tightly built into it -- so you can run perl
scripts which will affect your file, however, you'd have to license bbedit
and that would be overkill. BBEdit Lite, though, may be able to have
MacPerl added as a plugin (I think the "Lite" version does plugins) ...
which might suit you nicely.

More on BBEdit from http://www.barebones.com/

If you want, I can beta seeing whether your perl script will run out of
the box inside BBEdit. I'll be able to look at that later tonight.

I suggest you take your query to the bbedit talk mailing list. Also at the
barebones site.

	- joe
--
Joe Crawford...........electronic mail -> mailto:joe@artlung.com
member......international mailing list -> http://evolt.org/
founder..San Diego/CA/USA mailing list -> http://www.websandiego.org/
Web Designer/etc.............about(me) -> http://www.artlung.com/


~sdpm~

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From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Thu Apr  6 16:59:49 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Tk for Mac?
Message-ID: <200004062200.SAA13328@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~

Joe,

I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to do.  I know I can run 
the PERL script itself on all the platforms, including Macintosh (via 
MacPerl).  The problem is that command-line things are generally 
too complex and/or too difficult to remember.  I need to put a GUI 
front end on the script.  Perl/Tk would be perfect for that.  I can do 
it easily enough on Windows and UNIX.  Mac is apparently without 
a Perl/Tk port.  

Embedding this in a Mac-only editor wouldn't be of much use.  We 
have access to a Mac UI library, and to a Win32 UI library.  There 
are lots of X-based UNIX UI libraries, too.  I would like to have this 
thing be able to run anywhere, though.  

Hmmmmm...  I just realized out how to achieve platform neutrality, 
sans Tk.  It's obvious -- turn the script into a CGI!

That might just do the trick, in the short run...

...Russ
~sdpm~

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Tue Apr 11 20:55:26 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
Message-ID: <200004120155.SAA14929@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
I have the following test program to demonstrate a problem I was
having in my code:

#!/usr/local/bin/perl5.005

use strict;

my %hash;

if ($hash{key0})
{
	print "A: true\n";
}
if (exists $hash{key0}{key00})
{
	print "B: true\n";
}
if ($hash{key0})
{
	print "C: true\n";
}

if ($hash{key1})
{
	print "D: true\n";
}
if ($hash{key1}{key10})
{
	print "E: true\n";
}
if ($hash{key1})
{
	print "F: true\n";
}

print "\nKEYS\n", join ("\n", sort keys %hash), "\n";

__END__


Checking for the existence of a nested key like $hash{key0}{key00}
causes $hash{key0} to exist.  Is that the way it's supposed to work?
I would think that merely checking for the existence of
$hash{key0}{key00} would not cause $hash{key0} to exist.

-John
~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr 12 01:11:04 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
In-Reply-To: <200004120155.SAA14929@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004112208580.7587-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, John R. Comeau wrote:

> Checking for the existence of a nested key like $hash{key0}{key00}
> causes $hash{key0} to exist.  Is that the way it's supposed to work?
> I would think that merely checking for the existence of
> $hash{key0}{key00} would not cause $hash{key0} to exist.

The short answer is "use exists()."  The long answer is FTCFMTE. :-)

It has something to do though, I suspect, with how autovivification is
done by perl.

perldoc perlfaq4, perldoc perlfunc

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr 12 01:28:40 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
In-Reply-To: <200004120155.SAA14929@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004112217030.7587-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, John R. Comeau wrote:

> Checking for the existence of a nested key like $hash{key0}{key00}
> causes $hash{key0} to exist.  Is that the way it's supposed to work?
> I would think that merely checking for the existence of
> $hash{key0}{key00} would not cause $hash{key0} to exist.

Hmm, that was pretty cryptic (what I said) when I look at it more closely.
What I meant was, if you use exists to check any of the values (even the
nested ones) it should return false (unless you have a bug!)

Most people come to this question trying to use 'defined()' on the key,
where the hash key has been brought to life via autovivification.

perlfaq4, "Why does defined() return true on empty arrays and hashes?"
takes you to the entry for 'defined' in perlfunc for a cursory overview.
I'm sure there must be more elsewhere.

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr 12 01:47:12 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004112217030.7587-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004112243590.7680-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, C. Abney wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, John R. Comeau wrote:

> > Checking for the existence of a nested key like $hash{key0}{key00}
> > causes $hash{key0} to exist.  Is that the way it's supposed to work?
> > I would think that merely checking for the existence of
> > $hash{key0}{key00} would not cause $hash{key0} to exist.
> 
> Hmm, that was pretty cryptic (what I said) when I look at it more closely.
> What I meant was, if you use exists to check any of the values (even the
> nested ones) it should return false (unless you have a bug!)

Gawd... maybe I should just wait until someone else answers... I've botched
this.  From 'perlfunc':

defined:
               You may also use defined() to check whether a
               subroutine exists, by saying defined &func without
               parentheses.  On the other hand, use of defined()
               upon aggregates (hashes and arrays) is not
               guaranteed to produce intuitive results, and
               should probably be avoided.

exists:
               Returns TRUE if the specified hash key exists in
               its hash array, even if the corresponding value is
               undefined.
                   print "Exists\n"    if exists $array{$key};
                   print "Defined\n"   if defined $array{$key};
                   print "True\n"      if $array{$key};
               A hash element can be TRUE only if it's defined,
               and defined if it exists, but the reverse doesn't
               necessarily hold true.

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From chris at velocigen.com  Wed Apr 12 10:23:32 2000
From: chris at velocigen.com (Chris Radcliff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
References: <200004120155.SAA14929@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
Message-ID: <38F494F4.843C739F@velocigen.com>

~sdpm~


"John R. Comeau" wrote:
> Checking for the existence of a nested key like $hash{key0}{key00}
> causes $hash{key0} to exist.  Is that the way it's supposed to work?
> I would think that merely checking for the existence of
> $hash{key0}{key00} would not cause $hash{key0} to exist.
> 

I ran this program and got:
KEYS 
key0 
key1

... which is what I would expect. Why is this unexpected? At no time did
($hash{key1}) return true, for instance, and neither will (exists
$hash{key1}). You get key0 and key1 in the keys result because you
inherently dereferenced them to get to key00 and key10.

I haven't tried it with warnings turned on, but I have the sinking
suspicion that Perl will yell about using an uninitialized value because
you're dereferencing a variable that doesn't contain a reference. Anyone
willing to try?

~chris
~sdpm~

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From astewart at spawar.navy.mil  Wed Apr 12 12:48:33 2000
From: astewart at spawar.navy.mil (Alan Stewart)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
In-Reply-To: <38F494F4.843C739F@velocigen.com>
Message-ID: <200004121643.JAA03753@droid.nosc.mil>

~sdpm~
On 12 Apr 00, at 8:23, Chris Radcliff wrote:

>"John R. Comeau" wrote:
>> Checking for the existence of a nested key like $hash{key0}{key00}
>> causes $hash{key0} to exist.  Is that the way it's supposed to work?
>> I would think that merely checking for the existence of
>> $hash{key0}{key00} would not cause $hash{key0} to exist.
>> 
>
>I ran this program and got:
>KEYS 
>key0 
>key1
>
>... which is what I would expect. Why is this unexpected? At no time did
>($hash{key1}) return true, for instance, and neither will (exists
>$hash{key1}). You get key0 and key1 in the keys result because you
>inherently dereferenced them to get to key00 and key10.
>
>I haven't tried it with warnings turned on, but I have the sinking
>suspicion that Perl will yell about using an uninitialized value because
>you're dereferencing a variable that doesn't contain a reference. Anyone
>willing to try?

I ran it and got:
C: true
F: true

KEYS 
key0 
key1

which I think is the expected results, since $hash{key0} and $hash{key1} are 
autovivified with hash reference values, which are not false values. Also no -w 
warnings. Perl 5.004.

Chris, what is the actual value of $hash{key0} and $hash{key1} for you?

The definition of exists says that it takes any expression as long as the end 
result is a hash use, so I suspect that the non-autovivification feature applies 
only to the last part of the expression (not the $hash{key0} in this case). You 
would need to nest the exists checks for hash of hashes.

John, what did yours print? You didn't say !!

~sdpm~

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to contact a human.


From chris at binevolve.com  Wed Apr 12 12:12:22 2000
From: chris at binevolve.com (Chris Radcliff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
References: <200004121643.JAA03753@droid.nosc.mil>
Message-ID: <38F4AE76.EE02C33C@binevolve.com>

~sdpm~

Alan Stewart wrote:
> I ran it and got:
> C: true
> F: true
> 
> KEYS
> key0
> key1
> 

Whoops! Of course, that's what I actually got as well. I processed it
through a Web script which ate up the C: and F: lines as headers, which
goes to show that Perl debugging is not a recommended early-morning
activity.

> Chris, what is the actual value of $hash{key0} and $hash{key1} for you?
> 

from http://www.globalspin.com/tryme.vep :
The value of key0 is HASH(0x82c4acc).
The value of key1 is HASH(0x832ad78).

...which is again what I would expect. The expression $hash{key0}{key00}
implies a reference at $hash{key0}, so Perl obligingly creates one. This
might be considered a bug, but I'd rather just see a warning about it.
I'm disappointed that one doesn't show up.

~chris
~sdpm~

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Wed Apr 12 12:25:15 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
In-Reply-To: <200004121643.JAA03753@droid.nosc.mil> (astewart@spawar.navy.mil)
Message-ID: <200004121725.KAA19334@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
    Alan> John, what did yours print? You didn't say !!

Mine printed the same as yours.  I guess I was just hoping that the
keys 'key0' and 'key1' wouldn't be created just by checking for the
existence of the nested value.  I was thinking that only an assignment
operation would create them.

-John
~sdpm~

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From astewart at spawar.navy.mil  Wed Apr 12 14:21:37 2000
From: astewart at spawar.navy.mil (Alan Stewart)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Is this a bug in Perl (nested hash)?
In-Reply-To: <200004121725.KAA19334@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
References: <200004121643.JAA03753@droid.nosc.mil> (astewart@spawar.navy.mil)
Message-ID: <200004121817.LAA28227@droid.nosc.mil>

~sdpm~
On 12 Apr 00, at 10:25, John R. Comeau wrote:

>    Alan> John, what did yours print? You didn't say !!
>
>Mine printed the same as yours.  I guess I was just hoping that the
>keys 'key0' and 'key1' wouldn't be created just by checking for the
>existence of the nested value.  I was thinking that only an assignment
>operation would create them.
>
>-John

If $hash{key0} didn't auto set to a reference value, you wouldn't get the free 
ride of saying $hash{key0}{key00} without first saying something like:
   $hash{$key} = {};

It just happens that there is a new module on the CPAN recent list called 
Hash-NoVivify which appears to address this problem of de-referencing inside 
exists() causing autovivify. I only took a peek at the readme.

~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Sat Apr 15 01:58:57 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: walking dirs recursively (I'm doing what on Fri nite?)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004142213020.14928-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
Hmm, looking through the Cookbook, I notice File::Find is recommended
for recursive searches through a directory hierarchy.

Is there any reason why recursion down a directory hierarchy is best
left to this module?

To test using an array to store the directory names, I cobbled together
(a rewrite of) an 'rtgrep' I once did using bash (see below)

Seems to work, but am I missing something important (aside from the
weak command line flexibility -- it's just a quick mockup, for now)?

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

=========================<rtgrep>=========================
#! /usr/bin/perl -w
# Greps text files...
# Doesn't even try to follow links

use strict;

my ( $re, $path, @dirs, $dir );

$re = shift || die "Usage:\n\t$0 <regex> <dir or file>\n";
# this should just snarf the rest of the arg(s) up...
$path = shift || die "Usage:\n\t$0 <regex> <dir or file>\n";

if ( -d $path ) {
	push @dirs, $path;
} elsif ( -T $path ) {
	grepfile ( $path );
	exit 0;
} else {
	die	("Must be a text file or directory.\nUsage:\n",
		 "\t$0 <regex> <dir or file>\n" );
}

$re = qr/$re/;

foreach $dir ( @dirs ) { getfiles ( $dir ) };

sub getfiles
{
	my $d = shift;
	my ( @files, @textfiles );

	opendir DIR, $d;
	@files = grep { ! /^\./ } readdir (DIR);
	closedir DIR;

	foreach my $f ( @files )
	{
		if ( -d "$d/$f" ) {
			push @dirs, "$d/$f";
			next;
		} elsif ( -T "$d/$f" ) {
			push @textfiles, "$d/$f";
		}
	}

	grepfile ( $_ ) for ( @textfiles );
}

sub grepfile
{
	my $file = shift;
	my $line_no = 0;

	open FILE, $file
		or die "Couldn't open file $file: $!";
	while (<FILE>)
	{
		$line_no++;
		print "$file, $line_no: $_" if ( $_ =~ m/$re/ );
	}
	close FILE
		or die "Couldn't close file $file: $!";
}
=========================<rtgrep>=========================

~sdpm~

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From canetguy at home.com  Sat Apr 15 19:35:52 2000
From: canetguy at home.com (Garrett Casey)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl Mongers April Meeting
Message-ID: <200004151735520442.33C0A15B@mail>

~sdpm~
Perl Mongers,

First, this is a reminder that our next meeting is on April 19, 2000 at 7:00pm.  Alex Shaw will be giving the his seminar on imbedding perl commands in HTML and templates.  This is the seminar topic scheduled for last month, but was unfortunately cancelled.

GOOD NEWS.

I have been in contact with Randal Schwartz.  I invited him to attend and speak at one of our meetings.  This is the message I got back from him:

----

"Thank you for the invitation!  I've been to SD a few times, and it
seemed like a nice city (what little I saw of it :)."

"And, as a matter of fact, I'm currently in negotiation for an extended
amount of business with a client in Santa Monica, and could probably
attach an SD leg into one of those trips without too much trouble."

"I'm cc'ing my assistant Veronica... she'll be in touch with you
about possible dates as we get our plans."

----


I have not heard back from Veronic as of yet, but I will keep bugging her :) until we get him to show up!


MORE GOOD NEWS.

We were able to find a server that everyone can use.  I want to thank Mike Devicariis, he was able to hook us up with a HPUX-11 running on HP9000.  Perl5.005_03 is installed, Apache needs to be configured. We will need a volunteer or two to help set up everything.  You can call me at 858-720-1789 or just talk to me at the meeting.

Here is the plan for the server:
Host the mailing list
Host the web page
Let mongers have a home directory with public_html and cgi-bin directories
Home of the script repository
Home of anything else!

Volunteers will be needed to help with everything!!!

We will talk at the meeting. I hope you can attend!

-Garrett
858-720-1789
619-417-2136


~sdpm~

The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org

List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org

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From adms1 at cts.com  Sat Apr 15 22:33:16 2000
From: adms1 at cts.com (adms1)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl Mongers April Meeting and News
Message-ID: <200004152033160296.777CD0B9@smtp.cts.com>

~sdpm~
Perl Mongers,

First, this is a reminder that our next meeting is on April 19, 2000 at 7:00pm.  Alex Shaw will be giving the his seminar on imbedding perl commands in HTML and templates.  This is the seminar topic scheduled for last month, but was unfortunately cancelled.

GOOD NEWS.

I have been in contact with Randal Schwartz.  I invited him to attend and speak at one of our meetings.  This is the message I got back from him:

----

"Thank you for the invitation!  I've been to SD a few times, and it
seemed like a nice city (what little I saw of it :)."

"And, as a matter of fact, I'm currently in negotiation for an extended
amount of business with a client in Santa Monica, and could probably
attach an SD leg into one of those trips without too much trouble."

"I'm cc'ing my assistant Veronica... she'll be in touch with you
about possible dates as we get our plans."

----


I have not heard back from Veronic as of yet, but I will keep bugging her :) until we get him to show up!


MORE GOOD NEWS.

We were able to find a server that everyone can use.  I want to thank Mike Devicariis, he was able to hook us up with a HPUX-11 running on HP9000.  Perl5.005_03 is installed, Apache needs to be configured. We will need a volunteer or two to help set up everything.  You can call me at 858-720-1789 or just talk to me at the meeting.

Here is the plan for the server:
Host the mailing list
Host the web page
Let mongers have a home directory with public_html and cgi-bin directories
Home of the script repository
Home of anything else!

Volunteers will be needed to help with everything!!!

We will talk at the meeting. I hope you can attend!

-Garrett
858-720-1789
619-417-2136


~sdpm~

The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org

List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org

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From joel at cts.com  Tue Apr 18 02:17:40 2000
From: joel at cts.com (Joel Fentin)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: perl - dbi - mysql
Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.20000418001740.007c8970@crash.cts.com>

~sdpm~
I have perl working in the laptop.
I have mysql working from DOS command lines and batch files.
But when I try a short perl program, I get error messages longer
than my program. Depending on what I try, the messages start:
install_driver(mysql) failed: Can't locate DBD/mysql.pm in
@INC....etc.

Has anyone been here?

--
Joel Fentin    tel: 760-749-8863    FAX: 760-749-8864
 
email: joel@cts.com     web: http://efm.simplenet.com
~sdpm~

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From eugenet at mailcity.com  Tue Apr 18 10:49:03 2000
From: eugenet at mailcity.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: perl - dbi - mysql
Message-ID: <PMMNDJKKOIPPEAAA@mailcity.com>

~sdpm~
you need to install DBD::Mysql available from CPAN


 
--

On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:17:40   Joel Fentin wrote:
>~sdpm~
>I have perl working in the laptop.
>I have mysql working from DOS command lines and batch files.
>But when I try a short perl program, I get error messages longer
>than my program. Depending on what I try, the messages start:
>install_driver(mysql) failed: Can't locate DBD/mysql.pm in
>@INC....etc.
>
>Has anyone been here?
>
>--
>Joel Fentin    tel: 760-749-8863    FAX: 760-749-8864
> 
>email: joel@cts.com     web: http://efm.simplenet.com
>~sdpm~



Send FREE April Fool's Greetings to your friends!
http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/American_Greetings.rdct
~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr 19 03:21:43 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: fun
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004182357220.24194-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
Anyone want to work on supercomputers and develop a supercluster (oh, and
do server applications support for research scientists... :-/ )???

If you do, and know Perl and Unix, and your passions are computers and
information, drop me an email. I'll point you in the right direction. <g>

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Thu Apr 20 13:02:05 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: global special variable for array index?
Message-ID: <200004201802.LAA22056@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
Isn't there a global special variable for the list index when you're
stepping through a list with a for (= foreach) statement?  For
example, I frequently have code like this:

my $index;
for my $element (@list)
{
    # some processing on $element
    $index++;
}

It would be much easier if there were a global special variable (like
$. for line numbers) so I don't have to keep track of $index myself.

Thanks,
John
~sdpm~

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From brucet at onebox.com  Thu Apr 20 18:24:46 2000
From: brucet at onebox.com (Bruce Timberlake)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: global special variable for array index?
Message-ID: <20000420232446.NFGG1905.mta01.onebox.com@onebox.com>

~sdpm~
> Isn't there a global special variable for the list index when you're
> stepping through a list with a for (= foreach) statement?  For
> example, I frequently have code like this:
> 
> my $index;
> for my $element (@list)
> {
>     # some processing on $element
>     $index++;
> }
> 
> It would be much easier if there were a global special variable (like
> $. for line numbers) so I don't have to keep track of $index myself.

First off, with that syntax you want to be doing a "foreach," not "for."
 I don't think there is a special variable a la $_ for loop iteration
counting.  I think what would work for you is:

  $index = @list;

at the loop exit, which will set $index equal to the number of elements
in @list.  E.g.,
  my $index;
  my $element;
  @list = ("Larry", "Moe", "Curly");
  foreach $element (@list) {
    ... # process $element
  }
  $index = @list;  # $index now equals 3

Hope this helps!

Bruce


__________________________________________________
FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place.
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~sdpm~

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From rkleeman at neta.com  Thu Apr 20 18:33:35 2000
From: rkleeman at neta.com (Bobby Kleemann)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: global special variable for array index?
In-Reply-To: <20000420232446.NFGG1905.mta01.onebox.com@onebox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0004201628070.28218-100000@trojan>

~sdpm~
On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Bruce Timberlake wrote:

> ~sdpm~
> > Isn't there a global special variable for the list index when you're
> > stepping through a list with a for (= foreach) statement?  For
> > example, I frequently have code like this:
> > 
> > my $index;
> > for my $element (@list)
> > {
> >     # some processing on $element
> >     $index++;
> > }
> > 
> > It would be much easier if there were a global special variable (like
> > $. for line numbers) so I don't have to keep track of $index myself.
> 
> First off, with that syntax you want to be doing a "foreach," not "for."

You spell potatoe, I spell potato.  :-)  They both do the same thing in
this context.  Foreach is clearer, but for is quicker to type...

>  I don't think there is a special variable a la $_ for loop iteration
> counting. 

Unfortunately there isn't.  The reason is that when traversing a list with
the foreach loop, I think perl traverses it more like a linked list than
an actual array, so it never really knows what number in the chain it is,
only if it's at the begining, middle, or end.

> I think what would work for you is:
> 
>   $index = @list;
> 
> at the loop exit, which will set $index equal to the number of elements
> in @list.  E.g.,
>   my $index;
>   my $element;
>   @list = ("Larry", "Moe", "Curly");
>   foreach $element (@list) {
>     ... # process $element
>   }
>   $index = @list;  # $index now equals 3

This works only if you want the count at the end.  The way that was
originally proposed is the best way to do it, at least that I am aware
of.  

 _ _ _
 Bobby Kleemann <rkleeman@neta.com>
 http://www.neta.com/~rkleeman/

~sdpm~

The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org

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From brucet at onebox.com  Thu Apr 20 19:03:04 2000
From: brucet at onebox.com (Bruce Timberlake)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: global special variable for array index?
Message-ID: <20000421000304.NMCM1905.mta01.onebox.com@onebox.com>

~sdpm~
> > > Isn't there a global special variable for the list index when 
> > > you're stepping through a list with a for (= foreach)
> > > statement?  For example, I frequently have code like this:
> > > 
> > > my $index;
> > > for my $element (@list)
> > > {
> > >     # some processing on $element
> > >     $index++;
> > > }
> > > 
> > > It would be much easier if there were a global special variable
> > > (like $. for line numbers) so I don't have to keep track of
> > > $index myself.
> > 
> > First off, with that syntax you want to be doing a "foreach," not
> > "for."
> 
> You spell potatoe, I spell potato.  :-)  They both do the same thing
> in this context.  Foreach is clearer, but for is quicker to type...

But "for" syntax is (according to The Camel, anyway):

  for ( initial_exp; test_exp; re-init_exp ) {
    statement_1;
    statement_2;
    statement_3;
  }

The code listed more closely matches the "default" foreach syntax, so
that's what I guessed was really meant... :)

I guess with a "for" loop you could do something like:

  my($i, $index);
  @list = (qw(Larry Moe Curly));
  $index = @list;

first, and then set up your loop as

  for ($i = 1; $i <= $index; $i++ ) {
    $element = $list[$i];
    ... # process $element
  }

but foreach is just so much cleaner...

> This works only if you want the count at the end.  The way that was
> originally proposed is the best way to do it, at least that I am aware
> of.  

What was originally proposed did not specify whether the iteration count
was or was not being used inside the loop.  As there was no reference
to $index other than the increment, I guessed it wasn't important within
the loop itself.  You are correct: if you need access to the iteration
count while inside the loop, then yes, the original idea is the only
one which works.

Bruce

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From eugenet at mailcity.com  Thu Apr 20 20:45:06 2000
From: eugenet at mailcity.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: global special variable for array index?
Message-ID: <JGNOBGOEODNLFAAA@mailcity.com>

~sdpm~
>But "for" syntax is (according to The Camel, anyway):
>
>  for ( initial_exp; test_exp; re-init_exp ) {
>    statement_1;
>    statement_2;
>    statement_3;
>  }


'the camel' book is a tad outdated  :)

for loop can "act" as a foreach loop now

see
http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/manual/html/pod/perlsyn.html#Foreach_Loops


Send FREE April Fool's Greetings to your friends!
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From brucet at onebox.com  Thu Apr 20 23:13:03 2000
From: brucet at onebox.com (Bruce Timberlake)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: global special variable for array index?
Message-ID: <20000421041303.SHXP2260.mta02.onebox.com@onebox.com>

~sdpm~
---- "Eugene Tsyrklevich" <eugenet@mailcity.com> wrote:
> ~sdpm~
> >But "for" syntax is (according to The Camel, anyway):
> >
> >  for ( initial_exp; test_exp; re-init_exp ) {
> >    statement_1;
> >    statement_2;
> >    statement_3;
> >  }
> 
> 
> 'the camel' book is a tad outdated  :)
> 
> for loop can "act" as a foreach loop now
> 
> see
> http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/manual/html/pod/perlsyn.html#Foreach_Loops
 

I stand corrected -- thanks for the link!

Bruce

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Fri Apr 21 00:12:32 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: global special variable for array index?
In-Reply-To: <20000421000304.NMCM1905.mta01.onebox.com@onebox.com>
	(brucet@onebox.com)
Message-ID: <200004210512.WAA29779@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
>>>>> "Bruce" == Bruce Timberlake <brucet@onebox.com> writes:

    Bruce> What was originally proposed did not specify whether the
    Bruce> iteration count was or was not being used inside the loop.
    Bruce> As there was no reference to $index other than the
    Bruce> increment, I guessed it wasn't important within the loop
    Bruce> itself.

Yeah, I wasn't too clear about that.  I *am* using $index inside the
loop other than just to increment it.  And I did mean 'for' as a
synonym for 'foreach'.  Like Bobby said, it's easier to type.

Thanks for the replies.

-John
~sdpm~

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From jeff at planetoid.net  Tue Apr 25 16:17:01 2000
From: jeff at planetoid.net (jeff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl/Unix/Linux/C++/SQL Contractor Available
Message-ID: <39060B4D.DBD4FD4A@planetoid.net>

~sdpm~
Perl programmer in Los Angeles  available for telecommuting
contracting...

I have a strong Unix, Linux, Perl, CGI, Web, Apache, mySql, HTML, and
C++ background with some team lead experience. Available for part-time
or full work..

Please see my resume on-line http://resumes.dice.com/undertheash

jeff

--
Jeff Saenz
714-898-5552
jeff@planetoid.net


~sdpm~

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From tasburfoot at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 25 17:25:08 2000
From: tasburfoot at yahoo.com (Joe Raymundo)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl traversing through webpages that use CGI instead of Links..
Message-ID: <20000425222508.1072.qmail@web2001.mail.yahoo.com>

~sdpm~
Is there a way to grab and traverse through webpage's
text from a webpage that uses a combobox instead of
regular hyperlinks?  This one webpage created a menu
system that dynamically creates temporary html files
so I cant link directly to teh file.
Joe




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From astewart at spawar.navy.mil  Wed Apr 26 14:53:13 2000
From: astewart at spawar.navy.mil (Alan Stewart)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: Perl traversing through webpages that use CGI instead of Links..
In-Reply-To: <20000425222508.1072.qmail@web2001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200004261848.LAA11661@droid.nosc.mil>

~sdpm~
On 25 Apr 00, at 15:25, Joe Raymundo wrote:

>~sdpm~
>Is there a way to grab and traverse through webpage's
>text from a webpage that uses a combobox instead of
>regular hyperlinks?  This one webpage created a menu
>system that dynamically creates temporary html files
>so I cant link directly to teh file.
>Joe

If you mean, you know the URL for the page that contains the combobox and 
that is a html form (with a submit somewhere?), you can POST with LWP 
which is what the submit does. The returned page(s) will be the dynamic 
ones. If the combobox choices are always the same, then the POST is 
probably always the same, even if the response is dynamic. If you don't 
know what the choices are in advance, you will have to pull them out of the 
starting page html.

Are you using LWP? If so, I might have some example code.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Stewart          )-[]-(           Electronics Engineer
Code D621           ~        ~         Network Operations
SPAWARSYSCEN       ~          ~  \     Satellite Communications
53560 Hull St   ( ~            ~  )    tel (619)524-3625
San Diego,CA  __|___             /|    fax (619)524-2607
92152-5001   ^\____/^^^^^^\    __| |_  astewart@spawar.navy.mil
------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\__|______|_------------------------
~sdpm~

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Wed Apr 26 15:39:34 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
Message-ID: <200004262039.NAA15347@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
How does one write a program to interact with a JavaScript-based web
page?  We have an intranet page written in JavaScript like the
following:

    html
    HTTP/1.1 200 OK
    Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:37 GMT
    Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
    Content-Type: text/html
    Client-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:44 GMT
    Client-Peer: 157.152.183.134:80
    Title: ARWeb 3.0.2
    
    <html><head>
    <TITLE>ARWeb 3.0.2</TITLE>
    <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
     
     
     
    var CURRENT_PAGE = null;
    var PAGES = new makeObject();
    var PICKLIST_WIN=null;
     
    function loadPickList()
    {
    	return PickListStr;
    };

etc.


I couldn't find anything about JavaScript on CPAN.  I was told that
JavaScript is something quite different than Java.

As I've said at the meetings, I'm a complete newbie at web Perl
programming, so any help would be appreciated.

-John
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From rkleeman at neta.com  Wed Apr 26 15:50:00 2000
From: rkleeman at neta.com (Bobby Kleemann)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
In-Reply-To: <200004262039.NAA15347@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0004261347270.12966-100000@trojan>

~sdpm~
How do you want it to interract?  The most obvious way is you can use JS
to open a new window which loads a CGI-generated page.  Keep in mind
however that JS runs after on the client side and your Perl code will
likely run on the server side of the connection, so any interaction will
have to go though the network.

 _ _ _
 Bobby Kleemann <rkleeman@neta.com>
     http://www.neta.com/~rkleeman/

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, John R. Comeau wrote:

> ~sdpm~
> How does one write a program to interact with a JavaScript-based web
> page?  We have an intranet page written in JavaScript like the
> following:
> 
>     html
>     HTTP/1.1 200 OK
>     Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:37 GMT
>     Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
>     Content-Type: text/html
>     Client-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:44 GMT
>     Client-Peer: 157.152.183.134:80
>     Title: ARWeb 3.0.2
>     
>     <html><head>
>     <TITLE>ARWeb 3.0.2</TITLE>
>     <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
>      
>      
>      
>     var CURRENT_PAGE = null;
>     var PAGES = new makeObject();
>     var PICKLIST_WIN=null;
>      
>     function loadPickList()
>     {
>     	return PickListStr;
>     };
> 
> etc.
> 
> 
> I couldn't find anything about JavaScript on CPAN.  I was told that
> JavaScript is something quite different than Java.
> 
> As I've said at the meetings, I'm a complete newbie at web Perl
> programming, so any help would be appreciated.
> 
> -John
> ~sdpm~
> 
> The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
> 
> List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org
> 
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
> command in the body of your email message:
> 
>     unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list
> 
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> (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
> list itself) send email to <owner-san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org> .
> This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
> to contact a human.
> 

~sdpm~

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From ricks at mp3.com  Wed Apr 26 16:49:37 2000
From: ricks at mp3.com (Rick Schlientz)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
References: <200004262039.NAA15347@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
Message-ID: <39076471.FBD4CE8@mp3.com>

~sdpm~
Some resources for CGI and JavaScript that I have used and found useful
are:

http://wsabstract.com/cutpastejava.shtml
-	Site with lots of JavaScript 'recipes'.

http://stein.cshl.org/WWW/software/CGI/
-	The CGI.pm web page, with links to examples and descriptions.

http://www.wiley.com/compbooks/stein/source.html
-	Examples of CGI.pm scripts (see especially the JavaScript form
validation example at the bottom of the page).

RickS

"John R. Comeau" wrote:
> 
> ~sdpm~
> How does one write a program to interact with a JavaScript-based web
> page?  We have an intranet page written in JavaScript like the
> following:
> 
>     html
>     HTTP/1.1 200 OK
>     Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:37 GMT
>     Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
>     Content-Type: text/html
>     Client-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:44 GMT
>     Client-Peer: 157.152.183.134:80
>     Title: ARWeb 3.0.2
> 
>     <html><head>
>     <TITLE>ARWeb 3.0.2</TITLE>
>     <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
> 
> 
> 
>     var CURRENT_PAGE = null;
>     var PAGES = new makeObject();
>     var PICKLIST_WIN=null;
> 
>     function loadPickList()
>     {
>         return PickListStr;
>     };
> 
> etc.
> 
> I couldn't find anything about JavaScript on CPAN.  I was told that
> JavaScript is something quite different than Java.
> 
> As I've said at the meetings, I'm a complete newbie at web Perl
> programming, so any help would be appreciated.
> 
> -John
> ~sdpm~
> 
> The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
> 
> List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org
> 
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
> command in the body of your email message:
> 
>     unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list
> 
> If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
> (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
> list itself) send email to <owner-san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org> .
> This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
> to contact a human.
~sdpm~

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From astewart at spawar.navy.mil  Wed Apr 26 18:04:04 2000
From: astewart at spawar.navy.mil (Alan Stewart)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
In-Reply-To: <200004262039.NAA15347@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
Message-ID: <200004262159.OAA08051@droid.nosc.mil>

~sdpm~
On 26 Apr 00, at 13:39, John R. Comeau wrote:

>~sdpm~
>How does one write a program to interact with a JavaScript-based web
>page?  We have an intranet page written in JavaScript like the
>following:
>
>    html
>    HTTP/1.1 200 OK
>    Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:37 GMT
>    Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
>    Content-Type: text/html
>    Client-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:16:44 GMT
>    Client-Peer: 157.152.183.134:80
>    Title: ARWeb 3.0.2
>    
>    <html><head>
>    <TITLE>ARWeb 3.0.2</TITLE>
>    <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
>     
>     
>     
>    var CURRENT_PAGE = null;
>    var PAGES = new makeObject();
>    var PICKLIST_WIN=null;
>     
>    function loadPickList()
>    {
>    	return PickListStr;
>    };
>
>etc.
>
>

Are you asking how to generate and use Javascript, as some other people 
have indicated, or are you asking how to respond to someone else's 
Javascript with (perhaps) Perl?

In that page example above, the Javascript actually runs in the browser on 
your (client) machine. If you want to interact (meaning pick something from 
the picklist), you are trying to interact with another window, by emulating the 
user at the keyboard/mouse.

If you mean you retrieved this page with something like LWP and you want 
to interact with it, you can't, because it's not running anywhere. You could 
read the Javascript and figure out what it sends back and then do that in Perl.

Which of these several things are you trying for?
~sdpm~

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Wed Apr 26 17:09:29 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
In-Reply-To: <200004262159.OAA08051@droid.nosc.mil> (astewart@spawar.navy.mil)
Message-ID: <200004262209.PAA15787@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
    Alan> Are you asking how to generate and use Javascript, as some
    Alan> other people have indicated, or are you asking how to
    Alan> respond to someone else's Javascript with (perhaps) Perl?

I am asking about the 2nd item.  I want to write a Perl program to
interact with someone else's JavaScript.

    Alan> In that page example above, the Javascript actually runs in
    Alan> the browser on your (client) machine. If you want to
    Alan> interact (meaning pick something from the picklist), you are
    Alan> trying to interact with another window, by emulating the
    Alan> user at the keyboard/mouse.

Right.  This is what I want to do - pick something from the pick list,
fill in the entries, etc.

-John
~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr 26 20:21:41 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:19:59 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
In-Reply-To: <200004262209.PAA15787@pirr.sd.conexant.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004261719320.16618-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, John R. Comeau wrote:

>     Alan> Are you asking how to generate and use Javascript, as some
>     Alan> other people have indicated, or are you asking how to
>     Alan> respond to someone else's Javascript with (perhaps) Perl?
> 
> I am asking about the 2nd item.  I want to write a Perl program to
> interact with someone else's JavaScript.

That's a pretty neat question, one I'd never considered... I don't know
what's happening in the Perl/Un*x/OSS world, but Microsoft reportedly
has a Javascript interpreter that you can use... if your code is
running on a windows box you might be able to glue something together.

Is there anything like this for us Un*x ppl???

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From rkleeman at neta.com  Wed Apr 26 20:38:20 2000
From: rkleeman at neta.com (Bobby Kleemann)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004261719320.16618-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0004261837210.6190-100000@trojan>

~sdpm~
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, C. Abney wrote:

> ~sdpm~
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, John R. Comeau wrote:
> 
> >     Alan> Are you asking how to generate and use Javascript, as some
> >     Alan> other people have indicated, or are you asking how to
> >     Alan> respond to someone else's Javascript with (perhaps) Perl?
> > 
> > I am asking about the 2nd item.  I want to write a Perl program to
> > interact with someone else's JavaScript.
> 
> That's a pretty neat question, one I'd never considered... I don't know
> what's happening in the Perl/Un*x/OSS world, but Microsoft reportedly
> has a Javascript interpreter that you can use... if your code is
> running on a windows box you might be able to glue something together.
> 
> Is there anything like this for us Un*x ppl???

I believe the Mozilla project has one written in C/C++ and another written
in Java that you can use, but I don't know the requirements.

 _ _ _
 Bobby Kleemann <rkleeman@neta.com>
     http://www.neta.com/~rkleeman/


~sdpm~

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From cabney at cyberpass.net  Wed Apr 26 21:41:08 2000
From: cabney at cyberpass.net (C. Abney)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: how to interact with JavaScript?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0004261837210.6190-100000@trojan>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004261837470.16776-100000@chimeridae.zipcat.com>

~sdpm~
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Bobby Kleemann wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, C. Abney wrote:
> > On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, John R. Comeau wrote:

> > > I am asking about the 2nd item.  I want to write a Perl program to
> > > interact with someone else's JavaScript.
> > 
> > That's a pretty neat question, one I'd never considered... I don't know
> > what's happening in the Perl/Un*x/OSS world, but Microsoft reportedly
> > has a Javascript interpreter that you can use... if your code is
> > running on a windows box you might be able to glue something together.
> > 
> > Is there anything like this for us Un*x ppl???
> 
> I believe the Mozilla project has one written in C/C++ and another written
> in Java that you can use, but I don't know the requirements.

Oh, that's nice.  Information (on the C implementation) is here:

	http://www.mozilla.org/js/spidermonkey/

The java-based version is called 'rhino'.

Some examples of the use of the interpreter (presumably as a standalone
executable, it can be compiled as such) is here:

	http://www.mozilla.org/js/projects.html

CA
-- 
Einstein himself said that God doesn't roll dice. But he was wrong. And
in fact, anyone who has played role-playing games knows that God
probably had to roll quite a few dice to come up with a character like
Einstein.  -- Larry Wall                                     C. Abney

~sdpm~

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From eugenet at mailcity.com  Thu Apr 27 03:18:10 2000
From: eugenet at mailcity.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: FYI
Message-ID: <HJFFJHAINCJMAAAA@mailcity.com>

~sdpm~
http://www.perlmonth.com/index.html?issue=11


--



Send FREE April Fool's Greetings to your friends!
http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/American_Greetings.rdct
~sdpm~

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From rschnapp at ACM.org  Thu Apr 27 09:02:48 2000
From: rschnapp at ACM.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: FYI
Message-ID: <200004271357.JAA04168@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~
Eugene,

Thanks for this excellent reference.  I just happened to glance at 
their article on "linkcheck.pl".  It's chock full of fabulous examples 
of how to use some tremendously useful modules for extracting 
command-line options, retrieve and parse web pages, use POD, 
and more.  Very nice.  

...Russ
~sdpm~

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Thu Apr 27 19:52:43 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file dependency generator?
Message-ID: <200004280052.RAA26176@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
I have a large C project I work ON.  We have around 100 .c files.  At
one time I attempted to write a Perl program that would graph the
dependencies between these files.  What I mean by a 'dependency' is
that the C functions in one file call the C functions in another.  I
was attempting to graph this relationship in pTk using shapes
containing the names of the .c files connected by arrows pointing from
a "calling" file to a "called" file.

The graphing in pTk wasn't much of a problem, but trying to figure out
how to arrange this many files was a problem.  These file nodes with
their connecting arrows ended up looking like a horrible mess, and
didn't shed much light on the relationship between the files.  I
played around with various algorithms (all invented by myself), but I
couldn't come up with anything to sort them out in a clear fashion.
Perhaps this means that the project is disorganized and poorly
modularized, but I tend to think the problem was more with my
algorithm for arranging them in two dimensions.

I was thinking that it would be a lot simpler to just create a
text-based structure something like this:

file_A
  file_B
    file_C
    file_D
  file_E
file_F
  file_G
  file_B
  file_H
    file_I

This is sort of like the directory structures you see in file_ browser
GUIs or generated by the Unix 'tree' command.  The problem with this
is that, like file_B in the example above, the tree is not a regular
tree.  Sometimes the branches rejoin themselves.

A similar is solved by the Data::Dumper by referring back to a data
structure it has already printed without printing it again.  I could
just take that approach and not repeat the tree when it's already been
printed.  If I took that approach, I could write a program really
quickly with Data::Dumper by just creating a data structure analogous
to the file dependency structure and then Data::Dump'ing it.

But does anyone have any ideas for graphing a full tree that shows all
the reconnected branches?  I.e. that would show the structure like it
really is - like a Hillbilly family tree?  I'd think that other
programmers have faced this problem before.

-John
~sdpm~

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From todd.rockhold at ontogen.com  Thu Apr 27 20:45:00 2000
From: todd.rockhold at ontogen.com (Todd Rockhold)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file dependency generator?
Message-ID: <00Apr27.185138pdt.118081@gateway.ontogen.com>

~sdpm~
Indirect (not Perl code) but perhaps potentially helpful:

http://www.cs.uni-sb.de/RW/users/sander/html/gsvcg1.html

http://data.mpi-sb.mpg.de/internet/news.nsf/Spotlight/19990308

http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/rt/papers/ordal96/ordal96.html

A simple "graph untangling" Java applet is an example in the Java JDK from
Sun.
LEDA (C++) has graph drawing algorithms.  I think LEDA is bundled with the
SuSE Linux distro.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	John R. Comeau [SMTP:comeaujr@sd.conexant.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, April 27, 2000 5:53 PM
> To:	san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org
> Subject:	file dependency generator?
> 
> ~sdpm~
> I have a large C project I work ON.  We have around 100 .c files.  At
> one time I attempted to write a Perl program that would graph the
> dependencies between these files.  What I mean by a 'dependency' is
> that the C functions in one file call the C functions in another.  I
> was attempting to graph this relationship in pTk using shapes
> containing the names of the .c files connected by arrows pointing from
> a "calling" file to a "called" file.
> 
> The graphing in pTk wasn't much of a problem, but trying to figure out
> how to arrange this many files was a problem.  These file nodes with
> their connecting arrows ended up looking like a horrible mess, and
> didn't shed much light on the relationship between the files.  I
> played around with various algorithms (all invented by myself), but I
> couldn't come up with anything to sort them out in a clear fashion.
> Perhaps this means that the project is disorganized and poorly
> modularized, but I tend to think the problem was more with my
> algorithm for arranging them in two dimensions.
> 
> I was thinking that it would be a lot simpler to just create a
> text-based structure something like this:
> 
> file_A
>   file_B
>     file_C
>     file_D
>   file_E
> file_F
>   file_G
>   file_B
>   file_H
>     file_I
> 
> This is sort of like the directory structures you see in file_ browser
> GUIs or generated by the Unix 'tree' command.  The problem with this
> is that, like file_B in the example above, the tree is not a regular
> tree.  Sometimes the branches rejoin themselves.
> 
> A similar is solved by the Data::Dumper by referring back to a data
> structure it has already printed without printing it again.  I could
> just take that approach and not repeat the tree when it's already been
> printed.  If I took that approach, I could write a program really
> quickly with Data::Dumper by just creating a data structure analogous
> to the file dependency structure and then Data::Dump'ing it.
> 
> But does anyone have any ideas for graphing a full tree that shows all
> the reconnected branches?  I.e. that would show the structure like it
> really is - like a Hillbilly family tree?  I'd think that other
> programmers have faced this problem before.
> 
> -John
> ~sdpm~
> 
> The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
> 
> List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org
> 
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
> command in the body of your email message:
> 
>     unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list
> 
> If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
> (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
> list itself) send email to <owner-san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org> .
> This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
> to contact a human.
~sdpm~

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From eugenet at mailcity.com  Fri Apr 28 13:11:38 2000
From: eugenet at mailcity.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file dependency generator?
Message-ID: <MICGNDAFBFIDBAAA@mailcity.com>

~sdpm~
http://cscope.sourceforge.net/ might be of interest to you


--

On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:45:00   Todd Rockhold wrote:
>~sdpm~
>Indirect (not Perl code) but perhaps potentially helpful:
>
>http://www.cs.uni-sb.de/RW/users/sander/html/gsvcg1.html
>
>http://data.mpi-sb.mpg.de/internet/news.nsf/Spotlight/19990308
>
>http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/rt/papers/ordal96/ordal96.html
>
>A simple "graph untangling" Java applet is an example in the Java JDK from
>Sun.
>LEDA (C++) has graph drawing algorithms.  I think LEDA is bundled with the
>SuSE Linux distro.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:	John R. Comeau [SMTP:comeaujr@sd.conexant.com]
>> Sent:	Thursday, April 27, 2000 5:53 PM
>> To:	san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org
>> Subject:	file dependency generator?
>> 
>> ~sdpm~
>> I have a large C project I work ON.  We have around 100 .c files.  At
>> one time I attempted to write a Perl program that would graph the
>> dependencies between these files.  What I mean by a 'dependency' is
>> that the C functions in one file call the C functions in another.  I
>> was attempting to graph this relationship in pTk using shapes
>> containing the names of the .c files connected by arrows pointing from
>> a "calling" file to a "called" file.
>> 
>> The graphing in pTk wasn't much of a problem, but trying to figure out
>> how to arrange this many files was a problem.  These file nodes with
>> their connecting arrows ended up looking like a horrible mess, and
>> didn't shed much light on the relationship between the files.  I
>> played around with various algorithms (all invented by myself), but I
>> couldn't come up with anything to sort them out in a clear fashion.
>> Perhaps this means that the project is disorganized and poorly
>> modularized, but I tend to think the problem was more with my
>> algorithm for arranging them in two dimensions.
>> 
>> I was thinking that it would be a lot simpler to just create a
>> text-based structure something like this:
>> 
>> file_A
>>   file_B
>>     file_C
>>     file_D
>>   file_E
>> file_F
>>   file_G
>>   file_B
>>   file_H
>>     file_I
>> 
>> This is sort of like the directory structures you see in file_ browser
>> GUIs or generated by the Unix 'tree' command.  The problem with this
>> is that, like file_B in the example above, the tree is not a regular
>> tree.  Sometimes the branches rejoin themselves.
>> 
>> A similar is solved by the Data::Dumper by referring back to a data
>> structure it has already printed without printing it again.  I could
>> just take that approach and not repeat the tree when it's already been
>> printed.  If I took that approach, I could write a program really
>> quickly with Data::Dumper by just creating a data structure analogous
>> to the file dependency structure and then Data::Dump'ing it.
>> 
>> But does anyone have any ideas for graphing a full tree that shows all
>> the reconnected branches?  I.e. that would show the structure like it
>> really is - like a Hillbilly family tree?  I'd think that other
>> programmers have faced this problem before.
>> 
>> -John
>> ~sdpm~
>> 
>> The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
>> 
>> List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org
>> 
>> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
>> you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
>> command in the body of your email message:
>> 
>>     unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list
>> 
>> If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
>> (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
>> list itself) send email to <owner-san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org> .
>> This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
>> to contact a human.
>~sdpm~
>
>The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
>
>List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org
>
>If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
>you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
>command in the body of your email message:
>
>    unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list
>
>If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
>(if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
>list itself) send email to <owner-san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org> .
>This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
>to contact a human.
>
>


Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com
Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com
~sdpm~

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From jeff at planetoid.net  Fri Apr 28 15:12:37 2000
From: jeff at planetoid.net (jeff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
Message-ID: <3909F0B4.9D77F02@planetoid.net>

~sdpm~
how do I read all the lines from a file into a single scalar string
variable as opposed to a list.

I'd like to do something like

    $string = <FILE>;

I know I've seen how to do it somewhere but I don't remember what
resource I saw it on.
--
Jeff Saenz
jeff@planetoid.net


~sdpm~

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From rlssdpm at schnapp.org  Fri Apr 28 15:57:55 2000
From: rlssdpm at schnapp.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
Message-ID: <200004282052.QAA11470@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~

To read an entire file into a scalar, turn off the input record 
separator, $/, comme ca:

my $saveSlash = $/;
undef $/;
$string = <FILE>;
$/ = $saveSlash;


...Russ Schnapp
Schnapp Software Consulting
http://www.schnapp.org/
~sdpm~

The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org

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From rkleeman at neta.com  Fri Apr 28 16:14:29 2000
From: rkleeman at neta.com (Bobby Kleemann)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
In-Reply-To: <200004282052.QAA11470@happyfunball.pm.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0004281413360.1705-100000@trojan>

~sdpm~
TMTOWTDI:

I like to do it this way:

$string = join '', <FILE>;

Although I think the other way is faster.

 _ _ _
 Bobby Kleemann <rkleeman@neta.com>
     http://www.neta.com/~rkleeman/

On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Russ Schnapp wrote:

> ~sdpm~
> 
> To read an entire file into a scalar, turn off the input record 
> separator, $/, comme ca:
> 
> my $saveSlash = $/;
> undef $/;
> $string = <FILE>;
> $/ = $saveSlash;
> 
> 
> ...Russ Schnapp
> Schnapp Software Consulting
> http://www.schnapp.org/
> ~sdpm~
> 
> The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
> 
> List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org
> 
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
> command in the body of your email message:
> 
>     unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list
> 
> If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
> (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
> list itself) send email to <owner-san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org> .
> This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
> to contact a human.
> 

~sdpm~

The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org

List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org

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you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
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From astewart at spawar.navy.mil  Fri Apr 28 17:26:25 2000
From: astewart at spawar.navy.mil (Alan Stewart)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
In-Reply-To: <200004282052.QAA11470@happyfunball.pm.org>
Message-ID: <200004282121.OAA16716@droid.nosc.mil>

~sdpm~
On 28 Apr 00, at 13:57, Russ Schnapp wrote:

>~sdpm~
>
>To read an entire file into a scalar, turn off the input record 
>separator, $/, comme ca:
>
>my $saveSlash = $/;
>undef $/;
>$string = <FILE>;
>$/ = $saveSlash;
>

or, for fewer variable names:

  {
  local $/ = undef;
  $string = <FILE>;
  }


~sdpm~

The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org

List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org

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From jeff at planetoid.net  Fri Apr 28 17:01:01 2000
From: jeff at planetoid.net (jeff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
References: <200004282121.OAA16716@droid.nosc.mil>
Message-ID: <390A0A1C.79DD9A4C@planetoid.net>

~sdpm~
Alan Stewart wrote:

> ~sdpm~
> On 28 Apr 00, at 13:57, Russ Schnapp wrote:
>
> >~sdpm~
> >
> >To read an entire file into a scalar, turn off the input record
> >separator, $/, comme ca:
> >
> >my $saveSlash = $/;
> >undef $/;
> >$string = <FILE>;
> >$/ = $saveSlash;
> >
>
> or, for fewer variable names:
>
>   {
>   local $/ = undef;
>   $string = <FILE>;
>   }

it can't be "my $/ = undef;" ??

>
>
> ~sdpm~
>
> The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
>
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>
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--
Jeff Saenz
jeff@planetoid.net


~sdpm~

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From comeaujr at sd.conexant.com  Fri Apr 28 17:06:56 2000
From: comeaujr at sd.conexant.com (John R. Comeau)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
In-Reply-To: <390A0A1C.79DD9A4C@planetoid.net> (message from jeff on Fri, 28
	Apr 2000 15:01:01 -0700)
References: <200004282121.OAA16716@droid.nosc.mil> <390A0A1C.79DD9A4C@planetoid.net>
Message-ID: <200004282206.PAA06481@pirr.sd.conexant.com>

~sdpm~
>>>>> "jeff" == jeff  <jeff@planetoid.net> writes:

    jeff> it can't be "my $/ = undef;" ??

When I tried this I got

  Can't use global $/ in "my" at perl/bin/tmp.pl line 8.

I guess you can't make the global special variables a lexical
variable.

-John
~sdpm~

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From rschnapp at ACM.org  Fri Apr 28 17:19:20 2000
From: rschnapp at ACM.org (Russ Schnapp)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
Message-ID: <200004282216.SAA11760@happyfunball.pm.org>

~sdpm~
>> or, for fewer variable names:
>>
>>   {
>>   local $/ = undef;
>>   $string = <FILE>;
>>   }

>it can't be "my $/ = undef;" ??

Nope.  That's the subtle difference between "my" and "local".  The 
former is more like a conventional local variable.  

A "my" identifier masks globals that are referred to WITHIN the 
block in which they are declared.  

A "local" identifier in PERL actually is new instance of the variable 
that masks ALL references to global, WHEREVER THEY MAY 
OCCUR, so long as the block in which they are declared is active. 

It's cute.  It's handy.  It's a nightmare, from a language design point 
of view.  It means that when you look at a variable reference, you 
can't definitively say where the variable is defined.  

Larry Wall provided us with a very functional, very powerful 
language.  If only he had had a language design background, 
though.  I'll fight my urge to whine about many other unnecessary 
"features" of the language.  (Can you tell that I'm not a big fan of 
being able to do the same simple thing 5 different ways in a single 
language?)

...Russ Schnapp
Schnapp Software Consulting
http://www.schnapp.org/
~sdpm~

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From jeff at planetoid.net  Fri Apr 28 20:02:47 2000
From: jeff at planetoid.net (jeff)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
References: <200004282216.SAA11760@happyfunball.pm.org>
Message-ID: <390A34B7.551B5280@planetoid.net>

~sdpm~
Can anyone point me to a good tutorial or description of perl garbage
collecting?


Russ Schnapp wrote:

> ~sdpm~
> >> or, for fewer variable names:
> >>
> >>   {
> >>   local $/ = undef;
> >>   $string = <FILE>;
> >>   }
>
> >it can't be "my $/ = undef;" ??
>
> Nope.  That's the subtle difference between "my" and "local".  The
> former is more like a conventional local variable.
>
> A "my" identifier masks globals that are referred to WITHIN the
> block in which they are declared.
>
> A "local" identifier in PERL actually is new instance of the variable
> that masks ALL references to global, WHEREVER THEY MAY
> OCCUR, so long as the block in which they are declared is active.
>
> It's cute.  It's handy.  It's a nightmare, from a language design point
> of view.  It means that when you look at a variable reference, you
> can't definitively say where the variable is defined.
>
> Larry Wall provided us with a very functional, very powerful
> language.  If only he had had a language design background,
> though.  I'll fight my urge to whine about many other unnecessary
> "features" of the language.  (Can you tell that I'm not a big fan of
> being able to do the same simple thing 5 different ways in a single
> language?)
>
> ...Russ Schnapp
> Schnapp Software Consulting
> http://www.schnapp.org/
> ~sdpm~
>
> The posting address is: san-diego-pm-list@hfb.pm.org
>
> List requests should be sent to: majordomo@hfb.pm.org
>
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> you can send mail to <majordomo@happyfunball.pm.org> with the following
> command in the body of your email message:
>
>     unsubscribe san-diego-pm-list
>
> If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
> (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
> list itself) send email to <owner-san-diego-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org> .
> This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
> to contact a human.

--
Jeff Saenz
jeff@planetoid.net


~sdpm~

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From eugenet at mailcity.com  Sat Apr 29 12:18:14 2000
From: eugenet at mailcity.com (Eugene Tsyrklevich)
Date: Thu Aug  5 00:20:00 2004
Subject: file load
Message-ID: <ACNJMFJBMNDIBAAA@mailcity.com>

~sdpm~
>Can anyone point me to a good tutorial or description of perl garbage
>collecting?

$ grep -l garbage /usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/*
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perldiag.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perlfaq3.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perlfaq7.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perlguts.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perlobj.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perlrun.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perlsub.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perltie.pod
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/pod/perltoot.pod

see http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/manual/html/pod/


>Russ Schnapp wrote:
>
>> ~sdpm~
>> >> or, for fewer variable names:
>> >>
>> >>   {
>> >>   local $/ = undef;
>> >>   $string = <FILE>;
>> >>   }
>>
>> >it can't be "my $/ = undef;" ??
>>
>> Nope.  That's the subtle difference between "my" and "local".  The
>> former is more like a conventional local variable.

[snip]

http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/manual/html/pod/perlfaq7.html#What_s_the_difference_between_dy



--


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~sdpm~

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