From bmathis at directedge.com Fri Nov 3 18:44:26 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] [Fwd: www.perl.com: Critique of the Perl 6 RFC Process] Message-ID: <3A035BEA.6463E740@directedge.com> -------- Original Message -------- From: "www.perl.com update" Subject: www.perl.com: Critique of the Perl 6 RFC Process Resent-From: perl-update@lists.oreillynet.com To: www.perl.com update -------------------------------------- The Email for www.perl.com Subscribers ============================================================ Sponsored by Allaire Corporation, Creators of ColdFusion Quickly create applications for online stores, self-service HR solutions, interactive publishing, and more. Rely on Allaire ColdFusion 4.5, the leading cross-platform Web application server. Download your FREE evaluation copy today at http://www.allaire.com/perl2 ============================================================ Hello, perl.com subscribers. Thrilling news this week! Yet Another Society, the non-profit organization founded by Kevin Lenzo to put on small Perl conferences (such as YAPC) and do other good works, has pulled off a coup. In the space of only two weeks, they raised $55,000 so that Damian Conway won't have any teaching responsibilities next year, and will be free to work on whatever Perl things he wants to. Damian has already produced tremendously useful modules like Text::Balanced and Parse::RecDescent; he is also the three-time winner of the Larry Wall Award for Practical Utility. He's done all this in his spare time, wedging it in around his teaching duties, and it's wonderful to contemplate what he might be able to accomplish with an entire year of spare time. Congratulations to Damian and to Kevin Lenzo, and thanks to the generous corporate sponsors, especially Blackstar (which contributed half the needed amount), VA Linux, Manning Publications, Stonehenge Consulting, and O'Reilly & Associates. Profuse and extra-grateful thanks to the 130 (!!) individual contributors. Full details, including a list of the good folks who sent money, are available from http://yetanother.org/damian/ * Larry's Perl 6 Talk Online The complete transcript of Larry's ALS talk is finally available. This is the talk he gave a couple of weeks ago in Atlanta to explain the direction of Perl 6. Unfortunately the language design was not finished as he had hoped, because he was still reading through the 360 proposals that had been generated, but the talk was still interesting. A summary of the key points, and links to the entire transcript, to Larry's slides, and to the MP3 of the talk, are all available at http://dev.perl.org/~ask/als/ * New on www.perl.com In related news, the big new thing on www.perl.com is a long article I wrote about the Perl 6 RFC and discussion process. I was not happy with the way things went, and I earnestly hope that if the Perl community ever does something like this again, we can do better. Well, I don't want to spoil the surprise. You can read the whole thing at http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/perl6rfc.html Also new this week, another excellent perl5-porters summary from Simon Cozens. * Peripherally Related In *un*related news Steve Fink, who is a contributor to p5p, explained in a recent p5p message how he was able to find the original version of some source code that the Porters needed to investigate. Steve dug up the whole thing, with the original copyright notices, which were the part we really needed to see. How did he do this? It turns out he has helped to write a rather novel search engine, which you can visit at http://www.findsame.com/. You provide the URL for a document, and it locates documents that contain similar text. I tried this out yesterday, and I was quickly able to locate someone who had plagiarized one of my www.perl.com articles. Steve tells me that nobody much is using this tool, and this company is thinking of discontinuing the service. I want it to stay around, and I think you all might find it useful, so that's why I mentioned it. * Coming Soon Coming up soon we will have the second installment of Doug Sheppard's series for people who are just learning to program, and the second installment of Simon Cozens' series about Gnome. There's a bunch of other stuff pending, but I'm not sure when it will arrive, so I'm going to keep quiet about it until I know better. Thank you all. I will be in touch again next week. Mark Dominus Managing Editor *** Article: Critique of the Perl 6 RFC Process http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/perl6rfc.html?wwwrrr_20001101.txt Many of the suggestions put forward during the Perl 6 request-for-comment period revealed a lack of understanding of the internals and limitations of the language. Mark-Jason Dominus offers these criticisms in hopes that future RFCs may avoid the same mistakes -- and the wasted effort. Beginner's Introduction to Perl http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/begperl1.html?wwwrrr_20001101.txt The first part in a new series that introduces Perl to people who haven't programmed before. If you weren't sure how to get started with Perl, here's your chance! Perl Conference: State of the Onion 2000 http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/23/soto2000.html?wwwrrr_20001101.txt Larry Wall's annual report on the state of Perl, from TPC 4.0 (the fourth annual Perl conference) in Monterey in July 2000. In this full length transcript, Larry talks about the need for changes, which has led to the effort to rewrite the language in Perl 6. Programming GNOME Applications with Perl http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/gnome.html?wwwrrr_20001101.txt Simon Cozens shows us how to use Perl to develop applications for Gnome, the Unix desktop environment. Sister Sites: --------------------------------- O'Reilly Network http://www.oreillynet.com The Source for Open and Emerging Technologies XML.com http://xml.com/ XML from the inside out. O'Reilly and Associates http://www.oreilly.com/ O'Reilly computer books, software and online publishing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to cancel a subscription to this newsletter, please email the word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT of the message to perl-update-request@pepper.oreillynet.com. NOTE: Please make certain to unsubscribe from the email address at which you receive this message For non-automated human help email onperl@oreillynet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Thu Nov 9 16:58:21 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] Back issues of "The Perl Journal" Message-ID: <3A0B2C0D.4ED8540@directedge.com> The mother ship has back issues of "The Perl Journal" available. Here's the issues that are available: *Issue #4 -Winter '96 (Vol.1 No.4) *Issue #14 -Summer'99 (Vol.4 No.2) *Issue #15 -Fall '99 (Vol.4 No.3) *Issue #16 -Winter '99 (Vol.4 No.4) *Issue #17 -Spring '00 (Vol.5 No.1) *Issue #18 -Summer '00 (Vol.5 No.2) *Issue #19 -Fall '00 (Vol.5 No.3) Just email me with the issues that you want. The cost is $3.50 for the first 5 issues, then $1 for each additional. This is just a shipping cost. -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Fri Nov 10 15:25:00 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] [Fwd: www.perl.com: Beginners Intro to Perl - Part 2] Message-ID: <3A0C67AC.46E08FA9@directedge.com> -------- Original Message -------- From: "www.perl.com update" Subject: www.perl.com: Beginners Intro to Perl - Part 2 Resent-From: perl-update@lists.oreillynet.com To: www.perl.com update -------------------------------------- The Email for www.perl.com Subscribers ============================================================ Sponsored by Allaire Register for a FREE Allaire ColdFusion Seminar! Discover why ColdFusion is the industry's Number One cross- platform Web application server, giving you the power to develop and deliver scalable Web apps quickly and easily. You could also win free ColdFusion products! Register now at http://www.allaire.com/cfcyber/Perl1 ============================================================ Hello, perl.com subscribers. Perl 5.7 is imminent; it will be the unstable development release that will eventually lead up to Perl 5.8. Trial releases are out now. (If you don't know where to find them, you probably shouldn't be using them.) The only other thing that I noticed happening this week was that there was some discussion about my (extremely negative) critique of the Perl 6 RFC process. It generated some light, and unfortunately rather more heat. I got a lot of mail from people who said that they had noticed the same things but weren't sure how to say them, and some mail from people who felt that I exaggerated the problems. The public response (on the perl6-meta mailing list) was more generally negative. All together, the article did not really accomplish what I had hoped. I wanted people to discuss the problems of the RFC process in more detail. But this didn't really happen---people mostly seemed interested in refuting my article. It doesn't bother me that people thought that parts of my article were wrong or misguided, but I wish that they had taken some time to try to work out the problems that were pointed out by the parts they *didn't* think were wrong or misguided. Even people who had agreed with me in private took the opportunity to say in public how wrong they thought I was, and left it at that. Not to say that there wasn't worthwhile discussion. There was some. One of the brightest spots was Jarkko Hietaniemi's response. Jarkko graciously allowed us to put his reply on www.perl.com; you can find it at http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/jarkko.html Even I felt better after reading it. (We have also provided links to the transcript of the talk Larry recently gave about Perl 6 at the Atlanta Linux Showcase.) One person on the perl6-meta mailing list pointed out that you would not see a criticism of Java on the front page of sun.com. He's probably right---and I would like to think that that is one of the great advantages that Perl has over Java. Another interesting response was from someone who suggested that Perl community leaders should try to use their influence to get O'Reilly to pull the article off the web site. I was glad to see that the response to this suggestion was so immediately negative. * What's New on the Site? Doug Sheppard continues his series of articles that explain Perl for beginners. This week Doug discusses "The Other Two R's"---that is, Reading and Riting. The new article is available at: http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/begperl2.html In case you missed it, the first article in this series is still at: http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/begperl1.html Thank you all. I will be in touch again next week. Mark Dominus Managing Editor *** Beginner's Introduction to Perl - Part 2 http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/begperl2.html?wwwrrr_20001108.txt The second part in a new series that introduces Perl to people who haven't programmed before. This week: Files and strings. If you weren't sure how to get started with Perl, here's your chance! Article: Hold the Sackcloth and Ashes http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/jarkko.html?wwwrrr_20001108.txt Jarkko Hietaniemi, the Perl release manager, responds to the critique of the Perl 6 RFC process. Article: Critique of the Perl 6 RFC Process http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/perl6rfc.html?wwwrrr_20001108.txt Many of the suggestions put forward during the Perl 6 request-for-comment period revealed a lack of understanding of the internals and limitations of the language. Mark-Jason Dominus offers these criticisms in hopes that future RFCs may avoid the same mistakes -- and the wasted effort. Perl Conference: State of the Onion 2000 http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/23/soto2000.html?wwwrrr_20001108.txt Larry Wall's annual report on the state of Perl, from TPC 4.0 (the fourth annual Perl conference) in Monterey in July 2000. In this full length transcript, Larry talks about the need for changes, which has led to the effort to rewrite the language in Perl 6. Programming GNOME Applications with Perl http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/gnome.html?wwwrrr_20001108.txt Simon Cozens shows us how to use Perl to develop applications for Gnome, the Unix desktop environment. Beginner's Introduction to Perl http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/begperl1.html?wwwrrr_20001108.txt The first part in a new series that introduces Perl to people who haven't programmed before. If you weren't sure how to get started with Perl, here's your chance! Sister Sites: --------------------------------- O'Reilly Network http://www.oreillynet.com The Source for Open and Emerging Technologies XML.com http://xml.com/ XML from the inside out. O'Reilly and Associates http://www.oreilly.com/ O'Reilly computer books, software and online publishing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to cancel a subscription to this newsletter, please email the word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT of the message to perl-update-request@pepper.oreillynet.com. NOTE: Please make certain to unsubscribe from the email address at which you receive this message For non-automated human help email onperl@oreillynet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Sun Nov 12 22:48:42 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] Meeting this week / Web site update Message-ID: <3A0F72AA.E2F177E@directedge.com> This is a reminder that we will be having a meeting this Wednesday, November 15, at 8:00pm. We will be covering the following topics: - Debugging Perl programs using the command line debugger and "ptkdb", a graphical based perl debugger. - The O'Reilly books "Programming Perl, 3rd ed", and "CGI Programming with Perl, 2nd ed" will be available for use and checkout. We will be meeting at the University of Rochester. Directions to can be found here: http://rochester.pm.org/meetings.html Looking forward to another good meeting. ++Web site update: A small site update, we now have this list being archived, so you can go back through messages, etc. The archive is here: http://www.mail-archive.com/rochester-pm-list%40happyfunball.pm.org/ It's also linked off the Mailing List page of the web site. -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From jpt at cif.rochester.edu Wed Nov 15 17:07:47 2000 From: jpt at cif.rochester.edu (Jonathan P Tomer) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] meeting tonight Message-ID: <200011152307.SAA18641@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu> The room I usually reserve for PM meetings has been comandeered by the University of Rochester CS department. Unfortunately this means we have no space for a meeting this week. Sorry for the short notice. I would propose we meet next week but i'm not sure if I'll be able to get into the building during thanksgiving break; I will find out tomorrow. -- p. -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Wed Nov 15 18:43:54 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] meeting tonight References: <200011152307.SAA18641@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <3A132DCA.C25AB892@directedge.com> Jonathan P Tomer wrote: > > The room I usually reserve for PM meetings has been comandeered by the > University of Rochester CS department. Unfortunately this means we have > no space for a meeting this week. Sorry for the short notice. > > I would propose we meet next week but i'm not sure if I'll be able to > get into the building during thanksgiving break; I will find out > tomorrow. > > -- p. Ok, thanks for the info. Yeah, next week, or maybe a few weeks, so everyone else isn't involved in holiday stuff either.. BTW: for anyone who wants it, my ICQ# is 27541383 -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Thu Nov 16 13:23:32 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] [Fwd: www.perl.com: Program Repair Shop and Red Flags] Message-ID: <3A143434.F21B4A2A@directedge.com> -------- Original Message -------- From: "www.perl.com update" Subject: www.perl.com: Program Repair Shop and Red Flags Resent-From: perl-update@lists.oreillynet.com To: www.perl.com update -------------------------------------- The Email for www.perl.com Subscribers ============================================================ Sponsored by Allaire Corporation, Creators of ColdFusion Problems meeting tight deadlines? ColdFusion 4.5, the leading Web app server, has the solution with an integrated suite of visual tools, powerful server technology, and an open language environment. Download your FREE evaluation copy today at http://www.allaire.com/cfads/perl2 ============================================================ Hello, perl.com subscribers. ***Perl News*** Work on Perl 5.7 is ongoing, while "perlio" continues to be fascinating. If you've been paying attention to Perl development over the last few years, you might have noticed a trend away from the use of system-supplied library functions like "qsort" and "printf". Perl 5.6 carries its own versions of these common utilities, mostly for portability reasons. If printf varies from system to system, it means that identical Perl programs might produce different output on different systems. But if Perl uses its own private printf, the output will be the same everywhere. There are also quality reasons for providing private versions of these functions. A private printf means that we can add new features to printf, or support the full complement of C99 conversion specifiers, without worrying that Perl might have been compiled on an old system with an obsolete printf. The replacement of qsort was prompted by the bad behavior of certain vendor qsort functions, which had a propensity to dump core. The latest step in this process is that Nick Ing-Simmons has written an entire replacement standard I/O package for Perl, called "perlio". Once again, the motivations are portability and quality. (For example, the stdio package on some versions of Solaris cannot open more than 255 files at once.) But the major motivation was that it's really necessary for a proper implementation of Unicode support and line disciplines. A Perl program should be able to read a file written in a national character set such as Latin-1 or ISO-2022 and translate it automatically into a UTF-8 encoding. But that might require reading too many bytes and then backing up again, something that most standard I/O libraries won't do. So Nick has built a new one from the bottom up. Thank you, Nick! ***What's New on the Site*** I finally returned to my well-received "Program Repair Shop and Red Flags" series. Previous articles in this series took real Perl code supplied by real beginning Perl programmers and then showed how to make it smaller and better. The new article is the same, although somewhat longer than the others so far. I go over an entire code library line by line and show how to turn it into a Perl 5 object-oriented module. Along the way, I point out "red flags", which are early warnings signs that you might see in your own code that almost always indicate that something is wrong. I didn't mean to wait so long before doing another "Red Flags" article, but it's hard to find suitable code. (I think you'll be surprised when you learn where I found the code I used in the most recent article.) If you think you might be interested in contributing 20-50 lines of code for a future "Red Flags" article, please do send me a note. ***Anniversary*** I'm not exactly sure when I officially signed the contract with O'Reilly to work on the web site for them, but it must have been just about a year ago, because last week I sent off monthly invoice number 13. (That's how contractors tell time, you know---by the invoice numbers.) So I'd like to thank O'Reilly and Associates, who generously offered me the job in the first place, to all the writers and editors I've worked with over the last year, and especially to you folks who have sent me such interesting mail. Thank you all! It has been a pleasure, and I expect it will continue to be so. Thank you again. I will be in touch again next week. Mark Dominus Managing Editor *** Article: Program Repair Shop and Red Flags http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/repair3.html?wwwrrr_20001115.txt Once again I take a real program written by a genuine novice and show how to clean it up and make it better. This time we turn a perl4 library into a Perl 5 object-oriented module. I show how to recognize some "red flags" that are early warning signs that you might be doing some of the same things wrong in your own programs. Beginner's Introduction to Perl - Part 2 http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/begperl2.html?wwwrrr_20001115.txt The second part in a new series that introduces Perl to people who haven't programmed before. This week: Files and strings. If you weren't sure how to get started with Perl, here's your chance! Article: Hold the Sackcloth and Ashes http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/jarkko.html?wwwrrr_20001115.txt Jarkko Hietaniemi, the Perl release manager, responds to the critique of the Perl 6 RFC process. Article: Critique of the Perl 6 RFC Process http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/perl6rfc.html?wwwrrr_20001115.txt Many of the suggestions put forward during the Perl 6 request-for-comment period revealed a lack of understanding of the internals and limitations of the language. Mark-Jason Dominus offers these criticisms in hopes that future RFCs may avoid the same mistakes -- and the wasted effort. Perl Conference: State of the Onion 2000 http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/23/soto2000.html?wwwrrr_20001115.txt Larry Wall's annual report on the state of Perl, from TPC 4.0 (the fourth annual Perl conference) in Monterey in July 2000. In this full length transcript, Larry talks about the need for changes, which has led to the effort to rewrite the language in Perl 6. Sister Sites: --------------------------------- O'Reilly Network http://www.oreillynet.com The Source for Open and Emerging Technologies XML.com http://xml.com/ XML from the inside out. O'Reilly and Associates http://www.oreilly.com/ O'Reilly computer books, software and online publishing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to cancel a subscription to this newsletter, please email the word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT of the message to perl-update-request@pepper.oreillynet.com. NOTE: Please make certain to unsubscribe from the email address at which you receive this message For non-automated human help email onperl@oreillynet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From sporter at rit.net Thu Nov 16 13:34:19 2000 From: sporter at rit.net (Shawn Porter) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] perl and CF In-Reply-To: <3A143434.F21B4A2A@directedge.com> Message-ID: Does anybody else think it is odd that the perl.com update is sponsored by Allaire? -- Shawn Porter http://www.rit.net/sporter sporter@rit.net -- On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Brian Mathis wrote: > -------- Original Message -------- > From: "www.perl.com update" > Subject: www.perl.com: Program Repair Shop and Red Flags > Resent-From: perl-update@lists.oreillynet.com > To: > > www.perl.com update > -------------------------------------- > The Email for www.perl.com Subscribers > > > ============================================================ > Sponsored by Allaire Corporation, Creators of ColdFusion > > Problems meeting tight deadlines? ColdFusion 4.5, the leading > Web app server, has the solution with an integrated suite of > visual tools, powerful server technology, and an open language > environment. Download your FREE evaluation copy today at > http://www.allaire.com/cfads/perl2 > > ============================================================ -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From webmaster at rochester.rr.com Fri Nov 17 08:19:43 2000 From: webmaster at rochester.rr.com (Justin C. Sherrill) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] perl and CF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does anybody else think it is odd that the perl.com update is sponsored > by Allaire? Well, it's a prime place for them to find developers. I doubt many Perl users would happily use ASP/VB. PHP, on the other hand... Justin C. Sherrill Rochester Road Runner Webmaster http://www.rochester.rr.com/ "Think slow, type fats" -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Sun Nov 19 20:12:27 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] meeting tonight Message-ID: <3A18888B.386FB5E@directedge.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Jonathan P Tomer wrote: > > The room I usually reserve for PM meetings has been comandeered by > the University of Rochester CS department. Unfortunately this means > we have no space for a meeting this week. Sorry for the short > notice. Ok, how about this. Since the Thanksgiving week will probably be in question, with access to the room, as well as people probably getting ready for holiday celebrations, how about we hold the meeting on Wed, November 29th. We could make it a combined Nov/Dec meeting. This would help us get around the holidays. We could also hold a social meeting out at a restaurant around Dec 20th or so, as a holiday party. Would anyone be interested in that? - -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8 iQCVAwUBOhZJRJwT6UbDtVwVAQH58wQAgJqdXmPVqPOlW5x8Fu3uIkqvzfY11FzM GLXWPVvnrfcLbCNU1R+rvN5AnI47KZ6mdX7iU0w6WyJVgnBRSVHw295n5KpuM8Rd WC6b1F+badFQa+jBb4hLzn8rxw4D+GKZW+w9tS+BXBhUqfOeCUOZuFM7xSr6xw23 HwRCLXEcp3g= =SqRw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Sat Nov 18 03:17:58 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] meeting tonight References: <200011152307.SAA18641@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <3A164946.ED62CAAF@directedge.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Jonathan P Tomer wrote: > > The room I usually reserve for PM meetings has been comandeered by > the University of Rochester CS department. Unfortunately this means > we have no space for a meeting this week. Sorry for the short > notice. Ok, how about this. Since the Thanksgiving week will probably be in question, with access to the room, as well as people probably getting ready for holiday celebrations, how about we hold the meeting on Wed, November 29th. We could make it a combined Nov/Dec meeting. This would help us get around the holidays. We could also hold a social meeting out at a restaurant around Dec 20th or so, as a holiday party. Would anyone be interested in that? - -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8 iQCVAwUBOhZJRJwT6UbDtVwVAQH58wQAgJqdXmPVqPOlW5x8Fu3uIkqvzfY11FzM GLXWPVvnrfcLbCNU1R+rvN5AnI47KZ6mdX7iU0w6WyJVgnBRSVHw295n5KpuM8Rd WC6b1F+badFQa+jBb4hLzn8rxw4D+GKZW+w9tS+BXBhUqfOeCUOZuFM7xSr6xw23 HwRCLXEcp3g= =SqRw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From jpt at cif.rochester.edu Mon Nov 20 15:00:57 2000 From: jpt at cif.rochester.edu (Jonathan P Tomer) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] meeting tonight In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:12:27 EST." <3A18888B.386FB5E@directedge.com> Message-ID: <200011202100.QAA19966@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu> > Ok, how about this. Since the Thanksgiving week will probably be in > question, with access to the room, as well as people probably getting > ready for holiday celebrations, how about we hold the meeting on Wed, > November 29th. We could make it a combined Nov/Dec meeting. This > would help us get around the holidays. I'll get the usual room for 11/29. -- p. "But the sheep seem to shower off this office tower, nine-point-eight straight down." -- The Barenaked Ladies, "When I Fall" PGP 5.0 key (0xE024447449) at http://cif.rochester.edu/~jpt/pubkey.txt -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Sun Nov 26 12:51:55 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] [Fwd: www.perl.com: Beginners Intro to Perl - Part 3] Message-ID: <3A215BCB.43BEE6CE@directedge.com> -------- Original Message -------- From: "www.perl.com update" Subject: www.perl.com: Beginners Intro to Perl - Part 3 Resent-From: perl-update@lists.oreillynet.com To: www.perl.com update -------------------------------------- The Email for www.perl.com Subscribers ============================================================ Register for a FREE Allaire ColdFusion Seminar! Discover why ColdFusion is the industry's Number One cross- platform Web application server, giving you the power to develop and deliver scalable Web apps quickly and easily. You could also win free ColdFusion products! Register now at http://www.allaire.com/cfcyber/Perl2 ============================================================ Hello, perl.com subscribers. * Perl News Lots of important work is going on behind the scenes. Jarkko Hietaniemi has been refitting the regex engine to work on UTF8 strings. This has been waiting a long time; it was the only major part of Perl that still had grossly incorrect behavior for UTF8. To understand the basic problem, consider the /./ metacharacter. Does this match a single character, or a single byte? (Recall that in a UTF8 string, a character might contain several bytes.) The answer is that it depends. If the regex that contains the . was compiled in the scope of a 'use utf8' declaration, then it matches a character. Otherwise, it matches a single byte. However, this semantic is at odds with the way the rest of Perl works. Consider the 'length()' operator. Does it return the length of its argument in characters or in bytes? It used to have a semantics like the regex example above, and depended on the presence of a 'use utf8' declaration. The Perl5 porters realized a while back that this wasn't going to work well. Instead, each scalar now carries around a flag that marks it as a plain byte string or as a UTF8 string, and the length() operator looks for this flag and does the right thing for both kinds of data, always returning the length in characters. Now the regex engine has to be converted to do the same thing, and Jarkko has been doing it. Parallel to this, Ilya Zakharevich has been putting in some long-awaited improvements. * What's New on the Site The third installment of Doug Sheppard's well-received series introducing Perl for beginning programmers. In this article, Doug discusses regexes. * Coming up Another article from Simon Cozens about Gnome should be up next week. Also, we have an article about POE in the works. POE won the 'Best New Module' award at TPC3. It's basically a framework for building event-driven programs. For example, if you want to write a network server, you can use POE, and POE will take care of all the details of managing sockets and clients and leave you to write a few simple subroutines that implement the protocol. Thank you again. I will be in touch again next week. Mark Dominus Managing Editor *** Beginner's Introduction to Perl - Part 3 http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/begperl3.html?wwwrrr_20001121.txt The third part in a new series that introduces Perl to people who haven't programmed before. This week: Patterns and pattern matching. If you weren't sure how to get started with Perl, here's your chance! Article: Program Repair Shop and Red Flags http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/repair3.html?wwwrrr_20001121.txt Once again I take a real program written by a genuine novice and show how to clean it up and make it better. This time we turn a perl4 library into a Perl 5 object-oriented module. I show how to recognize some "red flags" that are early warning signs that you might be doing some of the same things wrong in your own programs. Article: Hold the Sackcloth and Ashes http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/jarkko.html?wwwrrr_20001121.txt Jarkko Hietaniemi, the Perl release manager, responds to the critique of the Perl 6 RFC process. Article: Critique of the Perl 6 RFC Process http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/11/perl6rfc.html?wwwrrr_20001121.txt Many of the suggestions put forward during the Perl 6 request-for-comment period revealed a lack of understanding of the internals and limitations of the language. Mark-Jason Dominus offers these criticisms in hopes that future RFCs may avoid the same mistakes -- and the wasted effort. Perl Conference: State of the Onion 2000 http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/23/soto2000.html?wwwrrr_20001121.txt Larry Wall's annual report on the state of Perl, from TPC 4.0 (the fourth annual Perl conference) in Monterey in July 2000. In this full length transcript, Larry talks about the need for changes, which has led to the effort to rewrite the language in Perl 6. Sister Sites: --------------------------------- O'Reilly Network http://www.oreillynet.com The Source for Open and Emerging Technologies XML.com http://xml.com/ XML from the inside out. O'Reilly and Associates http://www.oreilly.com/ O'Reilly computer books, software and online publishing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to cancel a subscription to this newsletter, please email the word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT of the message to perl-update-request@pepper.oreillynet.com. NOTE: Please make certain to unsubscribe from the email address at which you receive this message For non-automated human help email onperl@oreillynet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Mon Nov 27 03:27:12 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] Meeting reminder Message-ID: <3A2228F0.EF394CF0@directedge.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- This is a reminder note about the meeting that we moved to this week. The meeting will be on Wed, Nov 29, 8:00pm, at the UofR. Directions can be found here: http://rochester.pm.org/meetings.html The topic for this meeting is: debugging Perl programs We'll also be talking about a possible holiday party in December. Hope to see you there. - -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8 iQCVAwUBOiIo7pwT6UbDtVwVAQFECQP/YWiH4tlWiPxf0Gs2WRfrMZFRBa5sv/tb FtVcMp7GTQ362jqvLO7/NVvGhrhHYcp9hvwiLFrcE7EufcfCCVlR64EiTJiqKo1X SQtiLSYQlfJUK4nN/8AoJYS2OY61rqVbFXAQikkIi8CSrfywyQKXGoyVjOOtQbB0 587hQcZqKTE= =ptSO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- For information on unsubscribing from this list, please visit http://rochester.pm.org From bmathis at directedge.com Thu Nov 30 21:25:39 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] Meeting Notes Message-ID: <3A271A33.1010809@directedge.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Here are the notes from Wed night's meeting. I've also updated the web site with them. Please note, we are having a Holiday Dinner on Thursday, December 14, 7:00pm, at the Empire Brewing Company. Any friends and SO are invited. Please RSVP to me by Tuesday, December 12 so I can get a head count. - -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8 iQCVAwUBOicaLZwT6UbDtVwVAQEflgP/XcfXp5ngGC1ZBPe6tYzZoPdaxNiHgnX5 f5D0SMxU6QKBAKRZDH2YyT6sMAnUMNA8isiGYq9wuaZGCief7THSA3eoH36BdWLi AYcOw0rwK/Sx3MGPlhOVySmlTfdGecSqSZLw7jAPVOjCCT/c0V8W1JwTrE5D/GX/ WxtaJvv0lLo= =QDBe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/rochester-pm/attachments/20001130/1d01c829/meeting-11292000-notes.htm From bmathis at directedge.com Thu Nov 30 22:54:09 2000 From: bmathis at directedge.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:19:24 2004 Subject: [roch-pm] Meeting Notes Message-ID: <3A272EF1.3040903@directedge.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Here are the notes from Wed night's meeting. I've also updated the web site with them. Please note, we are having a Holiday Dinner on Thursday, December 14, 7:00pm, at the Empire Brewing Company. Any friends and SO are invited. Please RSVP to me by Tuesday, December 12 so I can get a head count. - -- Brian Mathis Direct Edge http://www.directedge.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8 iQCVAwUBOicaLZwT6UbDtVwVAQEflgP/XcfXp5ngGC1ZBPe6tYzZoPdaxNiHgnX5 f5D0SMxU6QKBAKRZDH2YyT6sMAnUMNA8isiGYq9wuaZGCief7THSA3eoH36BdWLi AYcOw0rwK/Sx3MGPlhOVySmlTfdGecSqSZLw7jAPVOjCCT/c0V8W1JwTrE5D/GX/ WxtaJvv0lLo= =QDBe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/rochester-pm/attachments/20001130/3fb932cc/meeting-11292000-notes.htm