From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 8 10:46:23 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] copy right as fundamental right In-Reply-To: <200204081522.g38FMb320853@atmpe.omnitel.net> References: <200204081522.g38FMb320853@atmpe.omnitel.net> Message-ID: <02040808462302.06426@aether> On Monday 08 April 2002 09:13, DeBug wrote: > Note: > In cases where it is impossible to not restrict free competition > some agreements must be reached - as example let's look at marketplace: > the space for trade is limited so it is impossible to garantee > free competition for everyone, so the rules who owns what space is required > > On the contrary with information thewre is plenty of space for holding it > so why do we still restict the spreading of information ? > > -- > De Bug > mailto: debug@centras.lt Hi: Why is space for competition limited? Why isn't it capable of universally expanding? Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 8 11:05:19 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <02040809051904.06426@aether> Hi: The list is open to all topics. Flaming is discouraged. If you feel the need to do so, please direct your concerns to me, directly at: tompoe@renonevada.net. Enjoy, and let's be having fun, fun, fun! Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 8 19:58:37 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] The Fax Line to the House Judiciary Subcommittee is Busy In-Reply-To: <1018309297.278.7.camel@portable> References: <3CB21B45.C8B057B9@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> <1018309297.278.7.camel@portable> Message-ID: <02040817583700.02056@aether> On Monday 08 April 2002 16:41, Ron Gage wrote: - - - snip - - - In addressing our lawmakers, we NEED to stick strickly to facts. > Contrary to popular opinion, our lawmakers are actually fairly > intelligent people, they don't have the time to be led "down false > paths", and most importantly, they know fairly quickly when someone > tries to lead them down a false path. - - - snip - - -- Hi: You didn't really, really just type this did you? Ooooh, I can't resist .. . . . . .. These folks are the ones that truly, truly believe RIAA and Valenti, when they are told that: 1] The Internet will never have "quality content" until Hollywood is protected by the DMCA and CBDTPA 2] That where the Internet has been highly successful for providing information, the General Public "demands more". 3] When RIAA, Michael Whozit from Mitsubishi says, "internet rebroadcast is not a "fair use" issue for consumers, these folks all jump up, sing AMEN, and applaud. Sorry, couldn't resist. Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 8 20:36:50 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: What country is reporting? Message-ID: <02040818365000.02274@aether> Hi: What country is this report from? Ans below. No peeking: " - - - government has ordered its departments to set a special budget to buy authorized software and stamp out pirated applications. " "A circular has been issued by - - - departments, including the - - - Copyright Administration, in the wake of the introduction of the - - - governments new copyright law. The law was in part a response to the requirements of - - - WTO membership. " "The circular said that departments which do not buy legal software can be charged and sued for damages, while department leaders and buyers of pirated software would be given "administrative punishment."" ANS: US or CHINA? [drum roll, please] CHINA, no US, no, - - -uh, I choose B, what was A again? http://213.40.196.64/content/7/24736.html Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 9 09:16:06 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Is there a place for copy-protected CD's on Promos? Message-ID: <02040907160602.05170@aether> Hi: This makes sense, unless there's a need for radio stations to copy to hard drives: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-878106.html [COPYRIGHT] BMG to Protect Promo CDs Against Copying BMG Entertainment, the major record company owned by German media giant Bertelsmann, said it will begin this month to protect promotional releases of its CDs against copying. That means free samples of new albums sent to U.S. radio stations, retailers and the press will come packaged with software that prevents songs from being copied onto computer hard drives. Read the article: ZDNet News @ http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-878106.html from: ===================================================== GigaLaw.com Daily News April 9, 2002 ------------------------------------------------------ We invite you to forward this e-mail in its entirety to friends and colleagues! Subscription information: http://www.GigaLaw.com/news ===================================================== Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ From shelleym at gmx.net Tue Apr 9 10:00:25 2002 From: shelleym at gmx.net (shell) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Is there a place for copy-protected CD's on Promos? In-Reply-To: <02040907160602.05170@aether> References: <02040907160602.05170@aether> Message-ID: <171404861840.20020409110025@gmx.net> There are times when it makes sense for us to copy a cd to another cd. We often do this with popular CDs that tend to "take a walk", to ensure that we have the CD on hand to play.... Shelley www.evilshell.net/syih www.wcsb.org Tuesday, April 09, 2002, 10:16:06 AM, you wrote: > Hi: This makes sense, unless there's a need for radio stations to copy to > hard drives: > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-878106.html > [COPYRIGHT] > BMG to Protect Promo CDs Against Copying > BMG Entertainment, the major record company owned by German media > giant Bertelsmann, said it will begin this month to protect promotional > releases of its CDs against copying. That means free samples of new albums > sent to U.S. radio stations, retailers and the press will come packaged > with software that prevents songs from being copied onto computer hard > drives. > Read the article: ZDNet News @ > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-878106.html > from: > ===================================================== > GigaLaw.com Daily News > April 9, 2002 > ------------------------------------------------------ > We invite you to forward this e-mail in its entirety to friends and > colleagues! > Subscription information: http://www.GigaLaw.com/news > ===================================================== > Thanks, > Tom > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 10 18:44:24 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Andreessen Speaks Up Message-ID: <02041016442402.12429@aether> Hi: Considering his background prior to Netscape and LoudCloud, this is a significant statement, don't you think? thanks, Tom Time To Face The Music ANDREESSEN: COPY PROTECTION EFFORTS ARE DOOMED San Jose Mercury News / SiliconValley.com Netscape co-founder Marc Andreessen told the nation's broadcasters that efforts to copy protect music, movies or television shows are destined to fail. As film studios and recording studios urge Congress to extend copy protection to every home entertainment device, Andreessen said the entertainment industry need look no further than the software industry's own expensive, failed attempts at encryption to realize it is ineffective at stopping piracy. "If a computer can see it, display it and play it -- it can copy it," said Andreessen, in a keynote address to the National Association of Broadcasters convention. http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3031836.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FINDLAW NEWS SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to a FindLaw Newsletter, visit the Newsletter Subscription Center at http://newsletters.findlaw.com From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 10 21:36:25 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: What's Changed? Message-ID: <02041019335600.13591@aether> Hi: Here's a quote from Paul Rapp, in a presentation 2 years ago. What's changed? http://www.albanylawjournal.org/millennium/rappspeech.html When you add up MP3's, Napster, Gnutella, and everything else, it's clear that, the cat's out of the bag and rolling in toothpaste that you won't get back in the tube, even if you were successful in getting it off the cat. From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 01:00:06 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: <20020410230211.37dd80d0.dru@worldskip.com> References: <01e001c1e0db$974c3c60$7e00a8c0@pcprices.com.pe> <02041020000503.13591@aether> <20020410230211.37dd80d0.dru@worldskip.com> Message-ID: <02041023000600.14250@aether> On Wednesday 10 April 2002 20:02, Andrew Choens wrote: - - - snip - - - I looked over your > site. What you guys are doing is terrific. I printed it to show some > other people. I thought it was great. I like the tone. There was the > obligatory plug for Open Source Development, but no long drawn out treatise > on why Linux is the greatest thing since fried rice. When you get into > working with the community at large, Linux/Open Source is going to be a > hard sell sometimes. We'll have to roll with the punches. I'd seen the K12 > page before. That project is awesome. However, it sounds as if they are > in a very unique position. They have a wired school, and an Open Source > Advocate in the IT department. Most schools are lucky to hire someone who > knows how to turn on a computer, let alone someone with this man's skills. > Very awesome stuff. With all of his talk of computers elsewhere in the > school and the kids having computers at home, I think its safe to guess > that this is a school in a wealthy community. Ironically/unfortunately, the > kids who can benefit the most from what you are trying to do, probably > won't have access to computers at home. Most of the ideas I have read for > using Linux in this sort of an environment use thin clients. These in > turn, cost money. I've been meaning to sit down and experiment with a 486 > and PII 200 that I've got here and see how much a 486 can get away with > using IceWm and running KOffice or Open Office over a small network. As of > yet, this experiment has yet to occur. I know the 486 used to run Win95, so > it should be able to handle what I want. Here's something I've been > thinking about. To obtain computers, we should go straight to businesses. > I got the 486 donated to me from a company I worked for in high-school. It > came with a monitor too. There are lots of machines sitting around > collecting dust. RAM is cheap. These machines may have a future yet, if > we can get to them. Servers would have to be newer of course. As for > schools, who have you contacted in the local school system? It might be > worth the time to schedule a chat with a few principals, see if any of them > has a dream or an itch. Community organizing has to coincide with a > need/itch of the community. Its there, you just got to find the right > person. Camp Lotsafun sounds perfect for a place to implement something. > They may be willing to take a risk on the idea. If you can succeed here, > you can use this as an example to a school that your ideas work and you can > pull it off. One idea that will need to be addressed is maintenance of the > system. These groups/schools will probably need help every so often to > keep their computers going. Does your group have the manpower to help in > this regard? Just something to keep in mind. I'm all about getting > involved (from a long-distance perspective). As things get off the ground, > I'd love to see pictures of the progress. This is exciting stuff. I wish > they'd port KOffice to windows, it sure would make conversion easier. > Anywho, we should definitely talk some. Heck, I have free long distance w/ > unlimited minutes after 9 on my cell. > > Peace > --andy Hi, Andy: Uhh, we're with SuSE for the moment. I have a set of SuSE Pro7.0, and will use that set as a master set. It'll work just fine with most anything. But then I have multiple gurus around, so it's easy for me to say. Volunteers make sure the computers run. Imagine, a school wants support, and in return write a letter of recommendation to those who show some responsibility and alertness, eh? You're right about trying to come up with the right model install that can be a starting point. Will work on that some more, and see if we can flesh that out a little. Will run with your "chat" with the principals assignment. Will let you know. I'll cross-post this to the users' group list and see what pops up. We'll spread your name all over the place, and as long as you're on the East Coast we should be safe. :) Talk with you shortly, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 11:16:12 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Print to win 98 server In-Reply-To: <20020411160057.CB91B1E1EE@Cantor.suse.de> References: <20020411160057.CB91B1E1EE@Cantor.suse.de> Message-ID: <02041109161202.16566@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 09:00, David Herman wrote: > People are always writing about printing from windows but my problem is > the opposite. > > I just installed suse 7.2 pro on a couple of dell optiplex150 at my > daughters school. The classrooms each have their own router for net/lan. > One of the win 98 machines has a printer which all other machines in > the class print to. > > question 1) What do I need to do to have the linux box print to the Win > 98 machine. (I have no networking experience) (yet ;-) > > Question 2) This will probably make question 1 mute. I believe the > printer that the server uses is a gdi printer (lexmark z12 if I > remember) Can I print to this since Windows is acting as the server or > do I need a "real" printer. > > This is a 4th/5th grade classroom, the kids ask "Why would I want to > use linux. I'm going to have a hard time answering that satisfactorilly > if they can't print out their work. Hi, David: Do you know whether Samba is set up to read directories from the network computers? If you can locate whoever set up the network, they can show you how it's setup, and what it looks like on a diagram. Then, the others on this list can give you feedback on what to check for, and where to get the info you need to make those kids really happy. And, if you share your situation with us, we all learn, together. Especially the stuff about how to get schools excited about bringing in donated computers and Open Source SuSE ! Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 11:27:47 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Re: Software In-Reply-To: <200204111053.00271.dru@worldskip.com> References: <20020411113146.AE5BE1E127@Cantor.suse.de> <200204111053.00271.dru@worldskip.com> Message-ID: <02041109274704.16566@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 07:53, Andrew Choens wrote: > On Thursday 11 April 2002 01:30 am, Lance Lane wrote: > > I am a teacher on the Navajo Reservation in Arizona. We have the same > > story in that most of our teachers are scared of computers and can't work > > them accept to use MS Word and Outlook. - - - snip - - - Hi: I didn't see lance's first message, so thanks, Andy for sending your response to the list. Lance, if I may, how does your school support the computers now? Is there someone that acts as a network administrator, or what? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 12:35:46 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [fsl-discuss] ABA to endore Sonny Bono Act's constitutionality? In-Reply-To: <20020411102727.D1104@zgp.org> References: <20020411102727.D1104@zgp.org> Message-ID: <02041110354600.16892@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 10:27, Don Marti wrote: > The American Bar Association's Intellectual Property Law section is > reporting that the association plans to file an amicus brief with > the Supreme Court claiming that the 1998 retroactive extension of > the term of copyright is constitutional. > > http://www.abanet.org/intelprop/apr02chair.html > > "The case could present a field day for those who have an anti-IP > sentiment-- those who say information wants to be free, less > protection is necessarily better, the public domain promotes > the progress of science and useful arts better than IP, and when > technology advances, IP rights must be cut back." > > Does this honestly represent a mainstream legal organization or did > the copyright extremists take over the "Intellectual Property Law" > section while the mainstream folks weren't looking? Hi: The way I look at it - - -[aahh, remembering the article in Playboy several years ago, when James Caan said, as he turned to face the interviewer, with his eyes crossed, "The way I look at it . . . ], if the Supreme Court decided to come out of the woodwork and admit through its handling of the last presidential fiasco, formerly election, that they're just political puppets, why not the ABA? Besides, extending copyright protection at the expense of individual freedoms simply ensures a broader range of clients and revenues, eh? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 12:40:17 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041110401701.16892@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 10:24, Jimmy Brake wrote: > Hi! > > Consider that linux is already a great system for use as a thin client. > Which is all you need to run a browser. Browser based apps based on > php/java/perl etc are plentiful on the net. I looked at educational > software about a year ago and there were a few apps, but I would imagine it > has grown since then. Mulitimedia is great but for the schools with really > limited funds that still want to get ALL their kids using computers thin > clients(with a descent video display) are one solution. > > Jimmy Brake Hi, Jimmy: I agree with you. I'm thinking that that's probably a good way to set up a demo, say, a server and two thin clients? What do you think? Maybe we could have a consensus on what the SuSE demo should look like? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 12:44:50 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: <3CB5BFE2.1010107@mwt.net> References: <1018534959.3cb59c2f60f8f@www.ameliaschools.com> <02041109350005.16566@aether> <3CB5BFE2.1010107@mwt.net> Message-ID: <02041110445002.16892@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 09:54, Keith wrote: > > I'm thinking of taking 2 of my computers there sometime and trying to > integrate with their system, and see what happens, after I get more > practise here at home. > No formal group around here, but i'm starting one. Most home school > people are fiercely independent, well educated, and love freedom the way > the founding fathers intended it. (Most of whom were home schooled)... > The city I came from had a large group of 200 kids, but generally only > for group events, gym, yearbooks, some classes, etc Hi, Keith: Sounds good. Hope you keep us posted. My suggestion on the home schooling group thingy, is that you make sure at least one parent/kid is a computer guru. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV, USA http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 13:54:47 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [fsl-discuss] Re: ABA to endore Sonny Bono Act's constitutionality? In-Reply-To: <20020411201305.K10859@margaux.inria.fr> References: <200204111747.g3BHl4L02002@amito.localdomain> <02041110503603.16892@aether> <20020411201305.K10859@margaux.inria.fr> Message-ID: <02041111544700.17178@aether> Hi, Bernard: You're a genius and a scholar, and a gentleman. Too bad you're not single, rich, female! Just for the record, I want you to know I am running real close to 100% failure when it comes to Internet cite searching. So, my hat's off to you on this. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 11 April 2002 11:13, Bernard Lang wrote: > On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:50:36AM -0700, tom poe wrote: > > On Thursday 11 April 2002 10:47, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: > > - - -snip - - - > > > > > "He who receives an idea from me, receives instructions > > > himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his > > > taper at mine, receives light without darkening me." > > > -- Thomas Jefferson on Copyright > > > > Hi: I agree with your take on this. Too bad for the general public. > > Really like the quote, above. Any way to track down the cite? > > Thomas Jefferson, letter to Isaac McPherson, 1813, in Writings of > Thomas Jefferson, vol. 6, H.A. Washington, Ed., 1854, pp. 180-181 > http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl220.htm > > bernard From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 13:57:51 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [fsl-discuss] Re: ABA to endore Sonny Bono Act's constitutionality? In-Reply-To: <20020411180504.GI32487@zork.net> References: <200204111747.g3BHl4L02002@amito.localdomain> <02041110503603.16892@aether> <20020411180504.GI32487@zork.net> Message-ID: <02041111575101.17178@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 11:05, Seth David Schoen wrote: > tom poe writes: > > On Thursday 11 April 2002 10:47, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: > > - - -snip - - - > > > > > "He who receives an idea from me, receives instructions > > > himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his > > > taper at mine, receives light without darkening me." > > > -- Thomas Jefferson on Copyright > > > > Hi: I agree with your take on this. Too bad for the general public. > > Really like the quote, above. Any way to track down the cite? > > In some circles this might have been made famous by John Perry > Barlow's use of it a few years ago, but it's frequently quoted by lots > of people. > > A longer excerpt with a full citation: > > http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_8s12.htm > > The (seldom read) entire letter: > > http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl220.htm Hi, Seth: And a thank you to you too. Tom Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 14:11:36 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041112113602.17178@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 11:17, Jimmy Brake wrote: > Hi! > > Simplicity, just have to keep it really really simple. Unfortunately > computers + networks + people + purpose ... can get pretty complex. > > I'll just use the library challenge as the description. Hi, Jimmy: Aaaarrgghhh! Well, there's a lot of work to be done. OK. Simple is good. I think we should develop a model for a demo. I vote that the model start with a server and two thin clients, running SuSEX.X. Any suggestions on which SuSE version might be the safest for a demo project? I have been running SuSE7.1 with no obvious problems for about 1 year, now. Anyone have a better suggestion? In the meantime, I have laid out an initial strategy that calls for contacting school principals and IT directors in the community and requesting "Informational Interviews" [approx 15 mins of their time], which would let me ask their opinions and advice about moving forward with a "pilot program" for community-based computer network installation and support for computers in our schools. How's that sound to you folks? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 14:30:20 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa (Obtaining Hardware) In-Reply-To: <200204111321.53447.dru@worldskip.com> References: <20020411113146.AE5BE1E127@Cantor.suse.de> <200204111321.53447.dru@worldskip.com> Message-ID: <02041112302003.17178@aether> Hi, Andy: Good stuff, here. May I go through this line by line? I'll preface my comments with an "ANS": On Thursday 11 April 2002 10:21, Andrew Choens wrote: > How did your school obtain funding for the computers and what not? Where > did this idea originate from? > > One problem I've noticed is getting the hardware. Does your school put > computers in the classroom or in labs? > > What do people think about the pros/cons of dedicated computer labs versus > computers in every classroom? With either solution what ratios of > computers to students have schools managed to achieve? ANS: This is an easy one for most people. One computer, one kid. Having said that, maybe cost has been a factor in the past, leading people to knee-jerk some ratio. However, what I think everyone agrees on, is that we're trying to come up with a model that will enable donated computers and Open Source software, combined with a mobilized support network, both on-site and remotely, that will enable one computer/ one kid to be a reality. > SuSE and Linux can handle the software side. That www.seul.org page is > awesome. ANS: You think that's good, try this one for schools: http://promo.net/pg/ >So, having said that, perhaps some brainstorming on ways to > obtain hardware would be constructive. I've been thinking about the idea > of approaching local businesses. Going door to door however doesn't seem > very constructive. ANS: This is untested so far, but give me a week, and I'll have a better idea. The strategy is to contact IT directors throughout the community. Ask for an informational interview about putting computers in schools, and their opinions and advice, with a 15 min time-slot. This puts you in front of the IT Director, who also can champion the hardware problem on your behalf. Sounds good to me, and I've already started a tally sheet, "Companies that threw me out!", so I can get a good measure of my success. Remember, it only takes one good resource. Also, think about this, and tell me if I'm on the right track. I get in front of the IT Director, state my case, and indicate I want to mobilize all the IT folks in each company for volunteer support teams. This, my friend, smells a whole lot like some good 'ol fashioned wholesome competition brewing, what do you think? Thus, I came up with a couple of alternatives. People > listen to the radio. Radios like doing community organized projects > because it makes them look good. Perhaps they could help get the word out. > I've got another idea, but I'm waiting for more information to see if it > seems feasible. Anyone else have ideas along thes lines? ANS: Man, I don't know how to break into that one. I'd need some really big crayola-type instructions on how to make that happen. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 14:42:41 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Print to win 98 server In-Reply-To: <20020411193210.9C9C61E67D@Cantor.suse.de> References: <20020411160057.CB91B1E1EE@Cantor.suse.de> <02041109161202.16566@aether> <20020411193210.9C9C61E67D@Cantor.suse.de> Message-ID: <02041112424104.17178@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 12:31, David Herman wrote: > On Thursday 11 April 2002 09:16 am, tom poe wrote: - - -snip - - - > Schools closed for spring break this week but I'll check that next week. > When I look for networking info under winders the individual stations > say they are set up for printer and file sharing, and I can get > workgroup and machine names, I just haven't tried reading directories > yet. - - -snip - - - Hi: Well, let us know. I would think, you're probably in good shape. If the windoz machines can print, then linux can print, using Samba. There's a book on the Internet, so you don't have to buy it. The url is: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/samba/chapter/book/ Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 14:56:29 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: <20020411193212.738541E66F@Cantor.suse.de> References: <1018534959.3cb59c2f60f8f@www.ameliaschools.com> <3CB5B9A6.30104@mwt.net> <20020411193212.738541E66F@Cantor.suse.de> Message-ID: <02041112562905.17178@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 12:32, David Herman wrote: - - -snip - - - > Since you brought up the idea of libraries I thought this info might be > relevant. > > One problem that I've run across (w/ my local libraries) is the > interface they use for online access to their catalogs. Both library > systems (King County and Seattle Public) use Java , and I've never been > able to get them to display properly (100%) in any Linux browser. > > (the sites if you are interested > http://webpac.kcls.org/ > http://webpac.spl.org/webclient.html) - - -snip - - - Hi, David: If I were you, I would forward this email to them, pronto: "You are using a browser that is not Java-enabled. " That's what I get when I use a text-based browser, lynx. What that means to me, is, that anyone who relies on text-to-voice for using the Internet to access the public library, is - - -well, what a shame. Also, I encourage you to copy this to your mayor, city council, and any news media in the community, not to mention the local organizations that work with the disabled. Remember, these are federally funded entities. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 16:25:11 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Intel Continues to DO IT RIGHT! In-Reply-To: <9678C2B4D848D41187450090276D1FAE185B7979@FMSMSX32> References: <9678C2B4D848D41187450090276D1FAE185B7979@FMSMSX32> Message-ID: <02041114251100.18581@aether> Hi, Les: I have copied the fax request from the Digital Consumer Coalition site that I sent. I hope you will carry it with you when next you meet with the Judiciary Committee, the RIAA, the BPDG, or any other groups. The words of Thomas Jefferson, alone, should be a reminder that our country is absolutely out of control as it moves towards digital suicide in the name of protecting "rights" of property owners. There will be no compromise at the level of the general public when it comes to losing personal freedoms in the name of globalization. That line, if not drawn with the most recent legislative attempts by a corporate special interest group, i.e., the Music Industry, will surely be drawn with an unsatisfactory DRM solution, driven by those same - - - -please insert name/descriptive term of choice here- - - - . The technology industry stands to suffer significant economic discomfort, if not harm, from such legislation, and hopefully, with your willingness to speak out, we all will benefit. Respectfully, Tom Poe 241 Crampton Reno, NV 89502 http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 11 April 2002 13:04, Les_Thank_You wrote: > Dear Tom (and friends), > > I appreciate your interest in the ongoing public discussions surrounding > copyrighted digital media(music and movies). Continued advancements in > digital technology have created challenges and exciting new opportunities > for both rights holders and consumers. Balancing consumer expectations > with the rights of copyright holders is an ongoing process. > > The voice of the consumer is an important element in this process, and I > encourage you to participate in this process by inputting your comments > directly to the US Senate Judiciary Committee throught their web page > http://judiciary.senate.gov/special/feature.cfm and through the Digital > Consumer Coalition at http://www.digitalconsumer.org/. > > Intel appreciates your support on this issue and continued consumer > loyalty. > > Sincerely, > Les Vadasz > Executive Vice President > Intel > > -----Original Message----- > From: tom poe [mailto:tompoe@renonevada.net] > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 7:02 PM > To: tom.marchok@intel.com > Subject: Intel Continues to DO IT RIGHT! > > > Hello: From myself, and my friends, we wish to thank you, your company, > and > > Mr. Vadasz for standing up to Congress/Hollywood. Your willingness to > express reason and logic in the face of one of the most horrendous > legislative actions [attempted] in our country's history is to be > applauded. > > If there was any doubt as to who we do business with, it's those companies > that serve our interests, the interests of your customers. Keep up the > fine > > work and research, and continue to put the products out that enable us to > enjoy the latest in technology advances. > Respectfully, > Tom Poe > 241 Crampton > Reno, NV 89502 copy of fax sent to judiciary committee 4/11/02: I would like to protest any and all legislation relating to destruction of our personal freedoms. The CBDTPA is bad law, bad legislation, and most importantly, bad politics. The most egregious expression in this proposed legislation lies with the use of the term, "CONSUMER". At what instant, at any given moment, is anyone able to determine when a consumer is now a producer. As you move forward with what is patently "China Policy" for U.S. citizens, I beg you to please keep in mind, the following words: Thomas Jefferson, letter to Isaac McPherson, 1813, in Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 6, H.A. Washington, Ed., 1854, pp. 180-181, in which he states, "He who receives an idea from me, receives instructions himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me." Regardless of where one begins, copyright law, intellectual property protection [oxymoron], or patent protection, it is unavoidable and necessary to couch any and all legislation, regulation, and government oversight in terms of how it impacts the individual freedoms of the country's citizens. The CBDTPA does nothing for the Music Industry that the Music Industry can't do for itself. The Music Industry, however, can help the federal government in its efforts to control the information available to the citizens by nurturing and encouraging the Music Industry to continue a course that will inevitably fail, i.e., seeking governmental protection of "rights" that do not exist for the Music Industry. The Internet is all about communication, and nothing about commercialization. It needs your nurturing far more than the Music Industry needs to destroy it. Let the Music Industry, the country, the world, use the vast potential of the Internet to further communication, and in doing so, the Music Industry will benefit as it would never have imagined. There are models out there to follow. Here's one: http://www.studioforrecording.org/ It's a model built on the words, and the intent, of our Founding Fathers. I hope your legislative decisions also will be based on those words and those intentions. Respectfully, Tom Poe 241 Crampton Reno, NV 89502 http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ I would like to protest any and all legislation relating to destruction of our personal freedoms. The CBDTPA is bad law, bad legislation, and most importantly, bad politics. The most egregious expression in this proposed legislation lies with the use of the term, "CONSUMER". At what instant, at any given moment, is anyone able to determine when a consumer is now a producer. As you move forward with what is patently "China Policy" for U.S. citizens, I beg you to please keep in mind, the following words: Thomas Jefferson, letter to Isaac McPherson, 1813, in Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 6, H.A. Washington, Ed., 1854, pp. 180-181, in which he states, "He who receives an idea from me, receives instructions himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me." Regardless of where one begins, copyright law, intellectual property protection [oxymoron], or patent protection, it is unavoidable and necessary to couch any and all legislation, regulation, and government oversight in terms of how it impacts the individual freedoms of the country's citizens. The CBDTPA does nothing for the Music Industry that the Music Industry can't do for itself. The Music Industry, however, can help the federal government in its efforts to control the information available to the citizens by nurturing and encouraging the Music Industry to continue a course that will inevitably fail, i.e., seeking governmental protection of "rights" that do not exist for the Music Industry. The Internet is all about communication, and nothing about commercialization. It needs your nurturing far more than the Music Industry needs to destroy it. Let the Music Industry, the country, the world, use the vast potential of the Internet to further communication, and in doing so, the Music Industry will benefit as it would never have imagined. There are models out there to follow. Here's one: http://www.studioforrecording.org/ It's a model built on the words, and the intent, of our Founding Fathers. I hope your legislative decisions also will be based on those words and those intentions. Respectfully, Tom Poe 241 Crampton Reno, NV 89502 http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From alex at synchcorp.com Thu Apr 11 18:56:10 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [suse-schools-usa] Re: Software References: <20020411113146.AE5BE1E127@Cantor.suse.de> <200204111053.00271.dru@worldskip.com> <02041109274704.16566@aether> Message-ID: <3CB6229A.C2FEFEFD@synchcorp.com> tom poe wrote: > On Thursday 11 April 2002 07:53, Andrew Choens wrote: > > On Thursday 11 April 2002 01:30 am, Lance Lane wrote: > > > I am a teacher on the Navajo Reservation in Arizona. We have the same > > > story in that most of our teachers are scared of computers and can't work > > > them accept to use MS Word and Outlook. > > - - - snip - - - > > Hi: I didn't see lance's first message, so thanks, Andy for sending your > response to the list. Lance, if I may, how does your school support the > computers now? Is there someone that acts as a network administrator, or > what? > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios Just joined the list, so I didn't see anyone's messages until today, so thanks everyone! :) I do most if not all of the computer training in my company, and I've had people scared to use computers, even when that's directly part of their job. I've learned a few techniques about getting people to open up to computers. Let me know if I can help, especially since I'm tenatively planning a trip to the Southwest in the future (as soon as my work will let me go!! :), and am looking for some opportunities to help out on some Reservations. I'd be more than happy to swing by and lend a hand. Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer From alex at synchcorp.com Thu Apr 11 19:07:14 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa References: <01e001c1e0db$974c3c60$7e00a8c0@pcprices.com.pe> <02041020000503.13591@aether> <20020410230211.37dd80d0.dru@worldskip.com> <02041023000600.14250@aether> Message-ID: <3CB62531.578397A7@synchcorp.com> tom poe wrote: > On Wednesday 10 April 2002 20:02, Andrew Choens wrote: > - - - snip - - - > I looked over your > > site. What you guys are doing is terrific. I printed it to show some > > other people. I thought it was great. I like the tone. There was the > > obligatory plug for Open Source Development, but no long drawn out treatise > > on why Linux is the greatest thing since fried rice. When you get into > > working with the community at large, Linux/Open Source is going to be a > > hard sell sometimes. We'll have to roll with the punches. I'd seen the K12 > > page before. That project is awesome. However, it sounds as if they are > > in a very unique position. They have a wired school, and an Open Source > > Advocate in the IT department. Most schools are lucky to hire someone who > > knows how to turn on a computer, let alone someone with this man's skills. > > Very awesome stuff. With all of his talk of computers elsewhere in the > > school and the kids having computers at home, I think its safe to guess > > that this is a school in a wealthy community. Ironically/unfortunately, the > > kids who can benefit the most from what you are trying to do, probably > > won't have access to computers at home. Most of the ideas I have read for > > using Linux in this sort of an environment use thin clients. These in > > turn, cost money. I've been meaning to sit down and experiment with a 486 > > and PII 200 that I've got here and see how much a 486 can get away with > > using IceWm and running KOffice or Open Office over a small network. As of > > yet, this experiment has yet to occur. I know the 486 used to run Win95, so > > it should be able to handle what I want. Here's something I've been > > thinking about. To obtain computers, we should go straight to businesses. > > I got the 486 donated to me from a company I worked for in high-school. It > > came with a monitor too. There are lots of machines sitting around > > collecting dust. RAM is cheap. These machines may have a future yet, if > > we can get to them. Servers would have to be newer of course. As for > > schools, who have you contacted in the local school system? It might be > > worth the time to schedule a chat with a few principals, see if any of them > > has a dream or an itch. Community organizing has to coincide with a > > need/itch of the community. Its there, you just got to find the right > > person. Camp Lotsafun sounds perfect for a place to implement something. > > They may be willing to take a risk on the idea. If you can succeed here, > > you can use this as an example to a school that your ideas work and you can > > pull it off. One idea that will need to be addressed is maintenance of the > > system. These groups/schools will probably need help every so often to > > keep their computers going. Does your group have the manpower to help in > > this regard? Just something to keep in mind. I'm all about getting > > involved (from a long-distance perspective). As things get off the ground, > > I'd love to see pictures of the progress. This is exciting stuff. I wish > > they'd port KOffice to windows, it sure would make conversion easier. > > Anywho, we should definitely talk some. Heck, I have free long distance w/ > > unlimited minutes after 9 on my cell. > > > > Peace > > --andy > > Hi, Andy: Uhh, we're with SuSE for the moment. I have a set of SuSE Pro7.0, > and will use that set as a master set. It'll work just fine with most > anything. But then I have multiple gurus around, so it's easy for me to say. > Volunteers make sure the computers run. Imagine, a school wants support, > and in return write a letter of recommendation to those who show some > responsibility and alertness, eh? You're right about trying to come up with > the right model install that can be a starting point. Will work on that some > more, and see if we can flesh that out a little. > > Will run with your "chat" with the principals assignment. Will let you know. > I'll cross-post this to the users' group list and see what pops up. We'll > spread your name all over the place, and as long as you're on the East Coast > we should be safe. :) > Talk with you shortly, > Tom > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios Don't forget, Andrew, you asked about support from the group -- I've had excellent support from the entire Linux community since the first day I ever installed Slackware96! Let's not limit our support options to one small organization when there are millions of helpful Linux users around the world. :) Between my father, my brother and I, we've been "donated" at least 8 Linux-able PCs to my family, they're not really that hard to come by, you just need to know where to look (like at other people's curbs the day before trash pickup! :) Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 08:59:01 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: <20020411052235.GA27819@hades.oak.suse.com> References: <01e001c1e0db$974c3c60$7e00a8c0@pcprices.com.pe> <20020410213010.363eba24.dru@worldskip.com> <20020411052235.GA27819@hades.oak.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041106590100.16117@aether> On Wednesday 10 April 2002 22:22, Christopher Mahmood wrote: - - - snip - - - > A no traffic list. There are 216 subscribers but the last and > only thread was a one that got pushed over from SLE in November of > last year. Honestly, I was thinking about removing it but it > looks like people are still interested in the topic. > > Maybe it would help if people had some idea who was subscribed. > Here's a count by top level domain: > > 5 at > 2 au > 1 be > 3 br > 5 ca > 1 ch > 1 co > 71 com > 34 de > 7 edu > 1 es > 1 fr > 1 gr > 1 hr > 1 hu > 2 id > 1 ie > 4 it > 1 lt > 45 net > 1 ni > 3 nl > 6 org > 2 pe > 1 py > 3 ro > 1 sv > 2 tr > 4 uk > 4 us > 1 uy > > Of course, throwaway addresses (e.g., yahoo.com) make this a little > misleading but it still might be useful. A list of all TDL's can be > found here: http://www.iana.org/cctld/cctld-whois.htm in case you > are familiar with some of these. Hi: Don't discontinue it. Let's get the show on the road. Good to know we're all here. Thanks, tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 09:16:30 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041107163002.16117@aether> On Thursday 11 April 2002 01:51, Robert Mulder wrote: > Hi all, - - - snip - - - > Hope this respons give you people in the US (and elsewhere on this globe) > an idea of what's happening here in Europe. > > Robert Mulder. - - - snip - - - Hi: Thanks. Well, in my opinion, seems like Europe and the U.S. are both "primed" for some activity at the school desktop arena. Andy made some good suggestions about what needs to be done to set the stage, e.g., we have to get in front of school principals and find an attractive way to run "pilot programs". Any other thoughts? Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 11 09:21:26 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Hi, and is there more information? In-Reply-To: <13a272254b.chris@sawer.uklinux.net> References: <6a2c77224b.chris@sawer.uklinux.net> <02040514160100.24846@aether> <13a272254b.chris@sawer.uklinux.net> Message-ID: <02041107212603.16117@aether> Hi, Chris: Will do. Nice to meet you on the Internet. Thanks, Tom Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 11 April 2002 03:02, Chris Sawer wrote: > In message <02040514160100.24846@aether> you wrote: > > [snip] > > > How's your account with uklinux.net? Do you think they'd be a good site > > to host my web sites? > > They're more of an ISP than a web hosting service, so they're quite > expensive for just web hosting. They seem pretty competent, though, and > always let us know when there are problems, but I'm not sure how good their > bandwidth is. I also don't know whether they accept subscribers from > outside the UK. > > I have a site hosted with Spellings Computer Services, however > ( http://www.spellings.net/ ) and have always found them reliable, and > reasonably priced (for the UK, that is). > > > I'm currently with an outfit in Canada, but they got bought out by some > > Big Guys, and their credibility is showing. > > Ah, right. That seems to happen a lot with the internet. > onelist -> egroups -> yahoo is one service that springs to mind. > > > So, back to the music-related questions. I'm truly one of the typical > > listeners, and know nothing about music, so bear with me. In the U.S., > > as I understand it, there is a licensing organization that has a staff > > watch for any new establishments that offer live entertainment, and > > promptly shows up and signs them up for their "license" to perform. > > Among their arguments for those who balk, is a mention that they own some > > 40 "arrangements" of "Row, Row, Row Your Boat". Now, how does this > > concept of "arrangements" work with regard to your sheetmusic? > > Well, the basic tune of "row, row, row your boat" - what you would hum if > someone asked you how it went - is presumably out of copyright, and the > same for the words. [as a quick aside here, some famous tunes are /not/ out > of copyright, such as "happy birthday", which is why in movies they often > sing "for he's a jolly good fellow", instead - to avoid license payments]. > > Anyway, assuming "row, row, row your boat" is out of copyright, then I > could typeset it myself and stick it up on the internet without any > problems. However, if you look in a music book it won't just have the tune. > If it's a piano book, it will have some kind of accompaniment for the left > hand. For other instruments, they may have written it in a certain key > signature, or maybe changed the tune ever so slightly. You could even make > an orchestral version. Each of these would be an arrangement /based on/ > "row, row, row your boat", but the copyright would belong to the person who > made the arrangement. Just because the tune itself is out of copyright > doesn't mean that the arrangement is, so that is why we have to be careful > on Mutopia. > > A similar problem arises with the editor - the person who adds phrasing > marks, dynamics, etc. to the music, so we have to be careful with which > editions we accept as well. > > > The questions I want to ask are because a small group of characters have > > decided to form and develop an organization dedicated to creating > > community-based recording studios that provide FREE recording services > > for artists and musicians, in return for the works being placed in the > > Public Domain. > > Sounds interesting. I guess this is fundamentally different from Mutopia, > though, in that recording studios cost money to build and run whereas > Mutopia doesn't actually cost us anything. > > Anyway, thanks for your interest, and if there's anything else you want to > know, feel free to ask. > > Chris From Bernard.Lang at inria.fr Fri Apr 12 04:15:46 2002 From: Bernard.Lang at inria.fr (Bernard Lang) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [fsl-discuss] Re: ABA to endore Sonny Bono Act's constitutionality? In-Reply-To: <02041111544700.17178@aether>; from tom poe on Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:54:47AM -0700 References: <200204111747.g3BHl4L02002@amito.localdomain> <02041110503603.16892@aether> <20020411201305.K10859@margaux.inria.fr> <02041111544700.17178@aether> Message-ID: <20020412111546.B12068@margaux.inria.fr> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:54:47AM -0700, tom poe wrote: > Hi, Bernard: You're a genius and a scholar, and a gentleman. Too > bad you're not single, rich, female! Nobody 's perfect. Well, actually I am building a collection of quotes, and I try to keep my sources as accurate as possible. Your quote is not directly in my collection, but another part of the same document is. http://pauillac.inria.fr/~lang/libre/reperes/citations.html BTW, if you have the beginning of the book by Lewis Lapham, The Agony of Mammon, I would like it. I have it only in French. Bernard > Just for the record, I want you to know I am running real close to 100% > failure when it comes to Internet cite searching. So, my hat's off to you on > this. > Thanks, > Tom > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > On Thursday 11 April 2002 11:13, Bernard Lang wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:50:36AM -0700, tom poe wrote: > > > On Thursday 11 April 2002 10:47, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: > > > - - -snip - - - > > > > > > > "He who receives an idea from me, receives instructions > > > > himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his > > > > taper at mine, receives light without darkening me." > > > > -- Thomas Jefferson on Copyright > > > > > > Hi: I agree with your take on this. Too bad for the general public. > > > Really like the quote, above. Any way to track down the cite? > > > > Thomas Jefferson, letter to Isaac McPherson, 1813, in Writings of > > Thomas Jefferson, vol. 6, H.A. Washington, Ed., 1854, pp. 180-181 > > http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl220.htm > > > > bernard > > _______________________________________________ > fsl-discuss mailing list > fsl-discuss@lists.alt.org > http://lists.alt.org/mailman/listinfo/fsl-discuss -- Non aux Brevets Logiciels - No to Software Patents SIGNEZ http://petition.eurolinux.org/ SIGN Bernard.Lang@inria.fr ,_ /\o \o/ Tel +33 1 3963 5644 http://pauillac.inria.fr/~lang/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Fax +33 1 3963 5469 INRIA / B.P. 105 / 78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX / France Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 11:59:44 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Fwd: RE: Intel Continues to DO IT RIGHT! In-Reply-To: <3CB6D51E.A0D3648A@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> References: <8039E097-4E13-11D6-94DD-0003938C3EE0@speakeasy.net> <3CB6D51E.A0D3648A@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <02041209594400.05289@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 05:37, Seth Johnson wrote: > Matthew: > > Build constituency. > > Seth Johnson Hi: That's twice I've seen you use that phrase. Can we expand on that? Does it mean, let's spread the word and convert others to thinking there's a problem that needs to be addressed? Is it a marketing idea, plan, strategy? Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 12:10:07 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Fwd: RE: Intel Continues to DO IT RIGHT! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041210100701.05289@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 05:59, Simon Drabble wrote: - - -snip - - -- > > again, our only strength will be in numbers. anyone have any idea what a > prime-time cable tv ad costs? or even not prime-time. > > Si. Hi: Well, your point is well-taken. I am pursuing an Open Source Project that is dedicated to creating community-based recording studios. It will be weeks to months before this jells. Now, supposing someone were to be able to identify several [or lots] of "basement" studios that folks have in their homes, and create a variety of recordings that could be used by the remaining [and dwindling] web radio broadcasters. Since the quality of the recordings isn't an issue, but the distribution is, let's think about how we might work those recordings into the mainstream media, and get the word out that this copyright assault is going to have to be stopped. If it's not, everyone will lose the Internet, lose the computer, and have only expensive, "Big Brother" devices available to them. Anyone know who might have "basement" studio stuff that could let us test this approach? Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 13:38:29 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] We need a list charter [ was: Re: Whoa ] In-Reply-To: <20020412172737.GB5397@hades.oak.suse.com> References: <20020412172737.GB5397@hades.oak.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041211382900.05669@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 10:27, Christopher Mahmood wrote: - - - snip - - - > I won't, but there's some work to do. For one, "we" (meaning you) > should try to come up with a charter for the list. I.e Currently, > it's > A list devoted to the use and support of Linux in schools. > Please note that we have a separate list for this topic that is > specific to the UK -- suse-linux-uk-schools > > That's sufficiently vague to allow almost any topic. Maybe that's > what you want, maybe not. Here are my opinions. ANS: Vague is good. > > I'd rather not see it become a list where people try to get support > for Linux--we have general lists in three languages (and two > specially setup up for blind users who are reading on a Braille > display) that are better suited for this because of their size and > activity. If people start debating the merits of various filesystems > and vm implementations the non-technical people will get bored and > unsubscribe. If suppport-type questions get posted they definitely > won't be answered with the speed they would be on suse-linux-e. ANS: Easy. Just give us a starting model for a school demo setup and we move past the technical stuff, and then it becomes a list for sharing experiences around the model. > > Also, I don't think it should nec. be specific to SuSE. If your > school will only accept Redhat because that's "Linux" in their minds > that's understandable given their marketing (of course we'd appreciate > you trying to convince them otherwise :)) but it seems that the > 'schools' part of the name should take precedence over the 'suse' > part; we didn't create the list as a cheap marketing ploy. ANS: SuSE and IBM work to put "models" together for industry, and should have one for school demo for SuSE as well. If the SuSE model looks good, the schools can then ask for a different distribution, if they want. > > Anyway, feel free to send suggestions or comments to ml-admin@suse.com. ANS: You are a magnanimous list moderator. And, for this person, a thank you for your kind assistance. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 13:43:02 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] We need a list charter [ was: Re: Whoa ] In-Reply-To: <20020412180423.D0795E658B@ns1.suse.com> References: <20020412172737.GB5397@hades.oak.suse.com> <20020412174856.GH5397@hades.oak.suse.com> <20020412180423.D0795E658B@ns1.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041211430201.05669@aether> Hi: Verily, Verily!!! On Friday 12 April 2002 05:09, Lance Lane wrote: > However, I think we should take a vote on a very important issue as an > educator: > > Educators like to exchange ideas. So shouldn't we make this a LANGUAGE > specific list instead of Country specific. > > EX: suse-schools-english@suse.com > > Other intrested people that speak different languages can follow suit. > > EX: suse-schools-spanish@suse.com > > Because: > > 1. We can certainly exchange information and ideas with teachers from GB, > Australia and other English speaking countries. > > 2. We need to format the group to fit the exchange of ideas as educators. > > > Linux Educators of the World Unite! > > n Friday 12 April 2002 11:48 am, you wrote: > > * Lance Lane (ldlane@citlink.net) [020412 10:46]: > > > I have a day off, I would like to help compose the charter. > > > > Great! Maybe you want to post a tentative one to the list when you > > are ready? From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 13:47:01 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] We need a list charter [ was: Re: Whoa ] In-Reply-To: <20020412181454.GE6491@hades.oak.suse.com> References: <20020412172737.GB5397@hades.oak.suse.com> <20020412180423.CA650E6588@ns1.suse.com> <20020412181454.GE6491@hades.oak.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041211470102.05669@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 11:14, Christopher Mahmood wrote: - - - snip - - - > Let's see how this goes and we can always make new language-specific > lists in the future. If people really don't like the '-usa' part we > can change it to '-e'. Hi: I wonder if the UK list would think we should change now? I think we would all benefit by consolidating to language-specific as our illustrious Lance suggested. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 14:13:47 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] We need a list charter [ was: Re: Whoa ] In-Reply-To: <20020412185827.GH6491@hades.oak.suse.com> References: <20020412172737.GB5397@hades.oak.suse.com> <02041211470102.05669@aether> <20020412185827.GH6491@hades.oak.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041212134700.05848@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 11:58, Christopher Mahmood wrote: - - - snip - - - > The -uk list is almost exactly what I don't want this to be. It > seems to be people looking for support is better done on one of the > general purpose lists. Well, then change the charters. Tell the UK list to change theirs to "technical" english issues surrounding schools. And make ours all other issues, and we'll be coordinated. In the meantime, I would appreciate some opinions on whether this site has value to the apps side of our proposed demo we're looking for [I'm looking for]: http://sal.kachinatech.com/ Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 15:24:53 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] We need a list charter [ was: Re: Whoa ] In-Reply-To: <20020412194315.6B1F1E6587@ns1.suse.com> References: <20020412172737.GB5397@hades.oak.suse.com> <20020412193029.GK6491@hades.oak.suse.com> <20020412194315.6B1F1E6587@ns1.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041213245301.06072@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 12:47, Lance Lane wrote: > Maybe we can send an invitation to those English users and a copy of our > charter when I get available sometime this evening or in the morning. I > plan on targeting the follwoing: > > 1. Educators around the World. > 2. Educational Developers (Interested of Course in developing applications) > 3. Implementation of Linux in the classroom. > 4. Practical Application of Linux in the Classroom (Activities) > 5. No Tech support for Linux or SuSe. > 6. Educational Desktop Developers (KDE, Ximian, Gnome) > > Need Feedback on more specifics and covering the Bases! - - -snip - - - Hi: What is this? A manifesto? All of the above are good targets. I suggest rephrasing the negative one, the one about no tech support SuSE or Linux. How about redirecting to the users groups for tech-related questions? Of course, all questions are welcome, right? Tech questions invariably have an end-user description with them, and those would be most helpful to the rest of the list. For example, "I can't get my computers to ping each other." This calls for a description of what setup is being used in what classrooms in how many buildings. That part of it we should encourage, as it lets visualization of what others are doing be shared. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 15:39:10 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Forget the computers, hit the TV's? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041213391002.06072@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 13:36, James S. Huggins \(DMCA Discuss\) wrote: > When I have tried to explain to people that the CBDTPA has a profound > impact on the ability of society to create the general purpose computer and > may outlaw the PC as we know it, I've gotten nowhere. > > When I explain > that it will make it illegal to even try to record this week's episode of > some TV show > that it will make it illegal to fast forward thru commercials > that it will make it impossible to compress/copy your CDs onto your laptop > for your trip > that it will make it impossible to watch the movie you rent from > blockbuster more than once > > Then their eyes light up, I get their attention and they seem to begin to > understand. > > > James S. Huggins Hi: All excellent examples. I, for one, will spend the afternoon memorizing. I hope we can get this message out to the masses. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From anatoly at total-knowledge.com Fri Apr 12 16:28:27 2002 From: anatoly at total-knowledge.com (Anatoly Volynets) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Is New Amendment needed? (was: Intel Continues to DO IT RIGHT!) In-Reply-To: <02041209594400.05289@aether> References: <8039E097-4E13-11D6-94DD-0003938C3EE0@speakeasy.net> <3CB6D51E.A0D3648A@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> <02041209594400.05289@aether> Message-ID: <20020412212830.17325.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> On Friday 12 April 2002 09:59 am, tom poe wrote: > On Friday 12 April 2002 05:37, Seth Johnson wrote: > > Matthew: > > > > Build constituency. > > > > Seth Johnson > > Hi: That's twice I've seen you use that phrase. Can we expand on that? > Does it mean, let's spread the word and convert others to thinking there's > a problem that needs to be addressed? Is it a marketing idea, plan, > strategy? Thanks, > Tom > _______________________________________________ Hi Tom, We went a little astray here, didn't we? It was my assumption linked here, which I would like to outline one more time: 1. All legal mess around IP is related to certain understanding of ideas and works of art, which liken them to the private property. 2. Based on that big IP holders made already happen some laws (BTW, who knows exactly,how many?) which strangle cultural development and normal cultural life in whole. 3. They have done this, they continue to do this, and they will proceed, why not? 4. On the other hand, this all has been done based on US Constitution, which states: 'The Congress shall have Power... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; ' 5. So I come to conclusion that above statement must be clarified by another Amendment, so: a) no other copyright extension or copy protection measures would happen again; b) all existing laws of that kind may become clearly unconstitutional. 6. To make it happen it is necessary, first of all, to agree upon the solution: is this new Amendment needed? Anatoly > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 17:02:31 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] MP3 Players In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041215023100.06413@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 13:40, John Dempsey wrote: - - -snip - - - > The most effective way to reach people on the issue is to hit them where > they live. > And people luv these MP3 players. > > > "Software manufacturers and other information technology companies oppose > government intervention. They say design standards for MP3 players or other > digital equipment should be set by the industry and that > government-mandated protections might result in a one-size-fits-all > standard that would be unworkable and stymie the development of new > products." > http://www.cincypost.com/2002/apr/08/piracy040802.html > > > "if you make copies of media that you purchased for your personal use, your > Fair Use right to do so is going to magically disappear in a puff of smoke > if this bill gets through. Make a copy of a CD for your car stereo? Forget > it; your copy-protection-enabled CD-R drive won't let you. Rip that CD to > MP3s, and listen to them on your computer or MP3 player? Forget that too" > http://www.macobserver.com/editorial/2002/04/07.1.shtml > > > "Want to listen to that song on your MP3 player? Fat chance." > http://online.securityfocus.com/columnists/71 > > > "under CBDTPA, nearly all existing electronic devices such as personal > computers, mainframes, camcorders, servers, MP3 players, home stereos, > VCRs, car stereos, pocket calculators, wristwatches, cellular phones, > microwave ovens, CB radios, cameras, electronic thermostats, CD recorders, > photocopiers, fax machines, televisions, and rectal thermometers - would > become illegal." > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/24616.html > > > "Future MP3 players, PCs and handheld computers will no longer let you make > all the copies you want." > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51245,00.html > > > OK THIS IS GETTING BORING. > Point: MP3 Players as we know them would cease to exist. The featuresets > of future MP3 players would be determined by the industry, or by the FCC. > The point about evolution of new devices is also very solid. How well does > software and hardware evolve when it requires a government seal of > approval? - - - snip - - - Hi: Thanks for the, "OK, don't believe me. But here's what mainstream media says." line. Great research. You're hired. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 17:20:03 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Email addies of people at Sony. In-Reply-To: <200204122138.g3CLcb323621@mail1.mx.voyager.net> References: <200204122138.g3CLcb323621@mail1.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <02041215200302.06413@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 13:37, raymond wrote: > Here is a nice list of email addresses for you to vent splean about the > recent behavior of Sony Entertainment. I suggest sending a notice of > boycott. > > feedback@soe.sony.com, SonyMusicOnline@sonymusic.com, > SonyMusicOnline@sonymusic.com, feedback@columbiarecords.com, > Epic_Records@sonymusic.com, LegacyOnline@sonymusic.com, > SonyMusicOnline@sonymusic.com, feedback@sonyclassical.com, > SonyWonder@sonymusic.com, Epic_Records@sonymusic.com, > Epic_Records@sonymusic.com, thestore@sonymusic.com, smsp@sonymusic.com > > -ray. Thank you sir, right away! They're added to the address book, and will now follow my postings. Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 17:27:31 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: CBDTPA and SONY are ONE - - -and that's not a GOOD THING Message-ID: <02041215273103.06413@aether> Hi: You are attempting to create a world of consumers. That is a futile endeavor, to say the least. We are not consumers. We are customers. Your actions have resulted in the collective decision by myself, family, and friends, to boycott your company and its' products. We also have made a collective decision to spread the word, and, using a list of articles found in mainstream media, we are going to convince as many as we can to join this boycott of your company and its' products. Again, we are NOT CONSUMERS, we are CUSTOMERS, but NOT YOUR CUSTOMERS! Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From ldlane at citlink.net Fri Apr 12 18:20:16 2002 From: ldlane at citlink.net (Lance Lane) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] We need a list charter [ was: Re: Whoa ] In-Reply-To: <02041213245301.06072@aether> References: <20020412172737.GB5397@hades.oak.suse.com> <20020412194315.6B1F1E6587@ns1.suse.com> <02041213245301.06072@aether> Message-ID: <200204122324.g3CNOqM08811@mail.pm.org> These were only ideas for a target audience. I think server questions and implementation Ideas would come under "Implementing Linux in the classroom." Questions like, "How do I get Linux to recognize my Modem?" , would fall under technical support. These are two different brands of questions. Of course I would expect that the charter would be posted on the SuSe site? And would have directions to point people toward technical support? Lance On Friday 12 April 2002 02:24 pm, tom poe wrote: > On Friday 12 April 2002 12:47, Lance Lane wrote: > > Maybe we can send an invitation to those English users and a copy of our > > charter when I get available sometime this evening or in the morning. I > > plan on targeting the follwoing: > > > > 1. Educators around the World. > > 2. Educational Developers (Interested of Course in developing > > applications) 3. Implementation of Linux in the classroom. > > 4. Practical Application of Linux in the Classroom (Activities) > > 5. No Tech support for Linux or SuSe. > > 6. Educational Desktop Developers (KDE, Ximian, Gnome) > > > > Need Feedback on more specifics and covering the Bases! > > - - -snip - - - > > Hi: What is this? A manifesto? > > All of the above are good targets. I suggest rephrasing the negative one, > the one about no tech support SuSE or Linux. How about redirecting to the > users groups for tech-related questions? Of course, all questions are > welcome, right? Tech questions invariably have an end-user description > with them, and those would be most helpful to the rest of the list. For > example, "I can't get my computers to ping each other." This calls for a > description of what setup is being used in what classrooms in how many > buildings. That part of it we should encourage, as it lets visualization > of what others are doing be shared. > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 20:01:18 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: In Gateway's Own Words . . . Message-ID: <02041218011800.07100@aether> Hi: Enjoy, then thank them: The buzz on digital music is on everywhere! Find out what's possible, get free downloads, and get smart about your rights as a consumer Protect your rights Your Personal Rights & Responsibilities as an MP3 User How do I burn a CD? How do I download music from the Internet? What do I need to get started? Why do I need Broadband? ------------------------ Protect Your Digital Music Rights Gateway supports your right to enjoy digital music legally. 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Supporting artists and labels that are making their music catalogs available for sale legitimately in MP3. By respecting their trust, it will encourage others to do the same. We thank you for your interest and support of legitimate downloadable music. If you have questions or feedback about this document, please send email to: webmaster@gateway.com. ------------------------ How Do I burn a CD? Creating a CD with your PC is commonly referred to as "burning" because you're literally using a laser beam to record data onto a blank compact disc (CD). To burn your own music CDs, you'll need a specific piece of hardware called a CD writer or drive - look for the abbreviation CD-RW, for recordable-rewritable. The latest systems come with these drives built in, but if your system doesn't have one, you easily can buy one separately. If you want to make duplicate CDs, or record from your own CD collection, your PC must have a CD-ROM drive, which are standard on nearly all PCs. 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You will need CD-ROM and CD-RW drives on your PC, software that records CDs and converts your MP3 files into WAV files (more on WAV below), and as many blank CDs as you want. The hardware: The majority of today's computers come with either a CD-ROM or CD-RW, often both, which means you can record, erase and reuse CDs with one piece of hardware. Not too long ago, you needed separate pieces for both tasks. Drives use two kinds of blank CDs: CD-R, which you can burn only once, and CD-RW, which you can record on, erase and reuse. While your PC may be able to read both formats, your home or car audio system will only work with CD-R discs. The software: Before recording an MP3 file to a CD-R, you must convert it to a WAV file. This is easier than it sounds. Some CD-recording software does it automatically, even before actually burning the CD. Automatic recording software isn't perfect, however - particularly if your computer is slower. For optimal performance, most digital music lovers download separate MP3 decoder software programs and perform the conversion "manually'' with a few mouse clicks. Once your MP3 files are converted to WAV files, you can store them on your hard drive, arrange them in a mix, and burn your CD by dragging and dropping the files into your CD-burning application. ------------------------ Why do I need Broadband? Downloading music from the Internet may be cool, but let's face it: It's a whole lot more fun if it's fast. A broadband or high-speed Internet connection dramatically increases the size of the pipeline to your PC, so you won't have to spend all day downloading songs from the Internet for your party tonight. Broadband also makes video and audio playback crystal clear, and even makes uploading digital photos faster and easier. Click here to learn about Gateway's broadband offers! From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 20:25:27 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] The reason I joined. In-Reply-To: <20020413010523.7737EE6591@ns1.suse.com> References: <20020413010523.7737EE6591@ns1.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041218252701.07100@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 18:10, Lance Lane wrote: > I think that before we decide on a charter that we should discuss: > > > 1. Our reason for joining. > 2. What do we do in education? > 3. What do we want out of this list? > 4. More importantly, how can we help our students get a good education > using linux? School is about kids and educating them better is our main > goal. > > 1. My reason for joining. > > I am a social studies teacher on the Navajo Reservation. Each classroom > has a least one computer. Our labs have about a total of 30 computers for > about 700 kids. (We currently are on a Novell server and Windows) I > joined because I am looking for a better way to help educate my kids and to > help my life a bit easier. If you are a teacher, you know that it is a > 7-day a week job. > > I am interested in: > 1. Programming (Hobbiest) > 2. Discussing matters that address such topics as the "digital divide." > 3. Getting ideas, and giving ideas that will help developers better serve > the educational community. (We need all the help we can get). > 4. How can I improve to better suit the needs of my students? > 5. Applications that are cost efficient and helpful in the classroom? > > > I am a Linux "newbie" and I am running SuSe 7.3 (I have 8.0 on order). One > day I would like to develop a Linux package directed at just educators and > students. > > Lance Lane Hi, Lance: My reason is found here: http://renotahoe.pm.org/ Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 22:04:36 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Charter In-Reply-To: <20020413024634.6374CE655D@ns1.suse.com> References: <20020413024634.6374CE655D@ns1.suse.com> Message-ID: <02041220043602.08676@aether> On Friday 12 April 2002 19:51, Lance Lane wrote: > I will come up with a charter tonight and try to include all of those > things that we have discussed. I will submit the draft tomorrow morning > sometime and we can take a vote on it and if people have questions please > ask. > > I don't mind criticism. My motto: "To avoid criticism: Say nothing, do > nothing, be nothing." > > This is not a "Manifesto." However, we have to have some sort rules for > moderation. > > > Lets roll!!!! > > Lance Hi: When you and Mahmood get settled, then I hope you will announce the list by sending an announcement to lwn@lwn.net, and indicate you'd appreciate their help in tracking down educators, etc., to participate in the list. How's that sound? thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 12 23:40:43 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Where are those cite fellows? I need another cite, please Message-ID: <02041221404300.09260@aether> Hi: Here's the quote that goes to all judiciary committee members. If I had the money, I'd frame it and send it for their walls. Can anyone point me to the cite on this? "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." Samuel Adams Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 13 11:40:57 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Charter Draft In-Reply-To: <20020413162954.CA1071E55E@Cantor.suse.de> References: <20020413162954.CA1071E55E@Cantor.suse.de> Message-ID: <02041309405700.11777@aether> On Saturday 13 April 2002 09:29, Lance Lane wrote: > Keeping it brief: > > Give me feedback please. Hi: Feedback is that it's nice. If I may make one suggestion, i.e., if you place the paragraph that starts with People, and ends with Student, at the top, it says a whole lot about the list to those seeking technical support. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From ldlane at citlink.net Sat Apr 13 11:58:31 2002 From: ldlane at citlink.net (Lance Lane) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Charter Draft In-Reply-To: <02041309405700.11777@aether> References: <20020413162954.CA1071E55E@Cantor.suse.de> <02041309405700.11777@aether> Message-ID: <200204131703.g3DH37413436@mail.pm.org> On Saturday 13 April 2002 10:40 am, tom poe wrote: Good Idea! :) Thanks! > On Saturday 13 April 2002 09:29, Lance Lane wrote: > > Keeping it brief: > > > > Give me feedback please. > > Hi: Feedback is that it's nice. If I may make one suggestion, i.e., if > you place the paragraph that starts with People, and ends with Student, at > the top, it says a whole lot about the list to those seeking technical > support. Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 13 12:36:29 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Is this it? In-Reply-To: <3CB7F09B.13056.477691@localhost> References: <3CB7F09B.13056.477691@localhost> Message-ID: <02041310362900.11960@aether> On Saturday 13 April 2002 05:47, Bob Weber wrote: > Hi > > I have been lurking for some time. I retired from the federal > government several years ago and currently work for the local > county schools here in Middlesex County, VA as a part time > computer tech. I have 20+ years experience in unix like operating > systems. Hi, Bob: This is an impressive background you have. Ideally suited to helping some of us out on this list. Bob, if I have an informational interview with one of the principals in your schools, and happen to have a demo system for him/her to play with, she's going to have me work through you to decide whether that's a good idea, right? If so, then maybe we could get some input from you as to what you'd like to see walk through the door as a "self-contained" classroom demo system, that you could easily evaluate. You know, maybe throw some questions/ideas about how the demo should be setup to provide easy access to answers. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 13 15:06:45 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Interesting concept - would like to learn more In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041313064500.12538@aether> Hi: Verbose is a good thing with email. So, as you move forward, do me a favor. PUBDOMAIN BREAD is a weblog at: http://www.studioforrecording.org/blogger.html What your project is, from where we sit, a most useful tool for conferencing on issues within our nonprofit organization. So, see what you can work out for pricing for nonprofits that could really benefit from your work, and if it's affordable, we'd like to hear from you. On Saturday 13 April 2002 12:54, Brent Ashley wrote: > Hi Tom; > > I haven't yet got the FAQ and intro pages together, but here's the poop - > possibly more detail than you want, but I've a verbose kinda guy! > > BlogChat started 6 weeks ago as an experiment of mine whereby I wanted to > enable direct communication with my weblog audience but without imposing IM > software or membership requirements on them and without necessarily > establishing persistent "buddy" relationships. > > I hacked together a simple version over a day or so, then launched it on > my blog. Doc Searls came by and blogged about it, and over the next two > days, I had an entire community of people visiting and using the very tool > itself to give me feedback on the development process. > > Once I had a stable BlogChat going, I released it as open source under > the GPL. That version is still available and will remain so. You can find > it at http://www.ashleyit.com/rs/blogchat/blogchat.zip - it requires PHP > and MySQL on the server side. > > Over the next few days it became apparent to me that there were many > people who wanted a BlogChat but did not have the knowhow or resources to > host it themselves, so I'm in the process of creating a fee-based service > to host BlogChats for that audience. > > That brings us to where we are now, in a beta stage to determine loads > and work out process and UI. > > The requirements for hosting your own BlogChat are: > > Windows, Linux/Unix or Mac OS/X > A web server - IIS, Apache, any webserver that will support PHP > PHP4 > mySql > > The zip file has a readme - generally it's reported that it takes about > 20 minutes to get it running if you have PHP/mySQL on your machine already. > > The requirements for using the BlogChat hosted service are: > > A web browser (IE/NS6/Mozilla on PC,Linux/Mac). > A way to let people know where to find your BlogChat. > > Generally, the idea is to have an indicator on your blog or web page. We > provide you on signup with some example HTML to include in your page. You > can also have an embedded chat like I do. You may just want to send links > to friends or colleagues via email, though - it doesn't *require* a > webpage. > > You go to a Host application webpage and then "the doctor is in". People > visit the Visitor page and they can chat with you. > > So, come on by and you may find me in at http://brentashley.blogchat.com > if you want to find out more. > > - Brent - > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tom poe [mailto:tompoe@renonevada.net] > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 3:03 PM > To: beta@blogchat.com > Subject: Interesting concept - would like to learn more > > > Hi: Dave Weingberger's blog pointed to this blogchat page. I'd like to > learn more. Is there a web page that explains, and download, and stuff? > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From brent at ashleyit.com Sat Apr 13 15:24:11 2002 From: brent at ashleyit.com (Brent Ashley) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: BlogChat In-Reply-To: <02041313064500.12538@aether> Message-ID: Hi Tom et al It's possible depending on your scope that your particular needs will exceed the reach of BlogChat, but I will definitely keep the issues in mind and will let you know as we move along. I say that because BlogChat's niche is a one-to-few type of chat. Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is better suited to supporting heavily-trafficked many-to-many multi-user requirements and serves that space well. Also, Jabber is an opensource messaging platform which not only supports IM and IRC-style chat, but will be the basis for audio and video based chats as well. These are directions that I don't envision BlogChat taking - I want it to do one thing extremely simply and well and not aspire to being all things to all people. Of course, that vision will last only as long as my independence from VC funding! At any rate, it's early days yet, so BlogChat could yet evolve in unforeseen ways. Watch this space! Thanks for the interest, Tom. - Brent - -----Original Message----- From: tom poe [mailto:tompoe@renonevada.net] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 4:07 PM To: Brent Ashley Cc: Alex; CommStudios; Don; Reno_Perl_Group; Ram Subject: Re: Interesting concept - would like to learn more Hi: Verbose is a good thing with email. So, as you move forward, do me a favor. PUBDOMAIN BREAD is a weblog at: http://www.studioforrecording.org/blogger.html What your project is, from where we sit, a most useful tool for conferencing on issues within our nonprofit organization. So, see what you can work out for pricing for nonprofits that could really benefit from your work, and if it's affordable, we'd like to hear from you. On Saturday 13 April 2002 12:54, Brent Ashley wrote: > Hi Tom; > > I haven't yet got the FAQ and intro pages together, but here's the poop - > possibly more detail than you want, but I've a verbose kinda guy! > > BlogChat started 6 weeks ago as an experiment of mine whereby I wanted to > enable direct communication with my weblog audience but without imposing IM > software or membership requirements on them and without necessarily > establishing persistent "buddy" relationships. > > I hacked together a simple version over a day or so, then launched it on > my blog. Doc Searls came by and blogged about it, and over the next two > days, I had an entire community of people visiting and using the very tool > itself to give me feedback on the development process. > > Once I had a stable BlogChat going, I released it as open source under > the GPL. That version is still available and will remain so. You can find > it at http://www.ashleyit.com/rs/blogchat/blogchat.zip - it requires PHP > and MySQL on the server side. > > Over the next few days it became apparent to me that there were many > people who wanted a BlogChat but did not have the knowhow or resources to > host it themselves, so I'm in the process of creating a fee-based service > to host BlogChats for that audience. > > That brings us to where we are now, in a beta stage to determine loads > and work out process and UI. > > The requirements for hosting your own BlogChat are: > > Windows, Linux/Unix or Mac OS/X > A web server - IIS, Apache, any webserver that will support PHP > PHP4 > mySql > > The zip file has a readme - generally it's reported that it takes about > 20 minutes to get it running if you have PHP/mySQL on your machine already. > > The requirements for using the BlogChat hosted service are: > > A web browser (IE/NS6/Mozilla on PC,Linux/Mac). > A way to let people know where to find your BlogChat. > > Generally, the idea is to have an indicator on your blog or web page. We > provide you on signup with some example HTML to include in your page. You > can also have an embedded chat like I do. You may just want to send links > to friends or colleagues via email, though - it doesn't *require* a > webpage. > > You go to a Host application webpage and then "the doctor is in". People > visit the Visitor page and they can chat with you. > > So, come on by and you may find me in at http://brentashley.blogchat.com > if you want to find out more. > > - Brent - > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tom poe [mailto:tompoe@renonevada.net] > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 3:03 PM > To: beta@blogchat.com > Subject: Interesting concept - would like to learn more > > > Hi: Dave Weingberger's blog pointed to this blogchat page. I'd like to > learn more. Is there a web page that explains, and download, and stuff? > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 13 15:28:42 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Interesting concept - would like to learn more In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041313284202.12538@aether> On Saturday 13 April 2002 13:06, Brent Ashley wrote: > Hi again, Tom. Just visited your links and had some thoughts: > > Neat stuff about the studio thing. I've been an amateur drummer for years, > and as it happens, recently met my birth father (I'm adopted), who is a > Jazz drummer named Chico Fernandez who owns Santa Monica Music Center. He > may well have some interest in such a project - I'll let him know about it > next time I'm talking with him. > > The PerlMonger site was relevant to me too. I've been a (lately passive) > member of Toronto Perlmongers for a few years now. > > No matter how manytimes I look at "renotahoe", it looks like rent-a-hoe to > me! Heh heh. > > - Brent - Hi, Brent: OK. We need your input, and participation. Community-based recording studios would enable CD's to be made and distributed to Internet-based radio stations for distribution of important messages about the legislation fiasco that is taking place. We will get to that point, but, the need is immediate, so, we need to id "basement" studios that could volunteer to let people make the recordings and distribute them. Keep your eyes and ears open, and let's go get 'em. Your father's music center doesn't appear to have recording studio capabilities. It looks like a perfect candidate to host a community-based recording studio, and enhance his business at the same time. We'll work with him to provide the funding, if he can id a Project Director that handle all the administrative stuff, and be the Point Person on the project. Glad you volunteered to work with studioforrecording.org. Finally, from where I sit, rent-a-hoe describes a whole lot of the citizens of this fine community. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 13 22:35:06 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Charter Final Draft In-Reply-To: <003801c1e35f$3c2d8920$6401a8c0@clvhoh.adelphia.net> References: <20020414010802.67010E6544@ns1.suse.com> <3CB8DCFE.2070506@citlink.net> <003801c1e35f$3c2d8920$6401a8c0@clvhoh.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <02041320350600.14654@aether> On Saturday 13 April 2002 19:51, Howard Pierce wrote: > Hi, > > I am not a teacher, however, as a pc professional, I have volunteered my > time to our small village school system (1 building, 200 children) in Ohio. > > We simply cannot afford to be buying Windows licenses to keep up with > technology, so I am interested in switching to Linux for 3 reasons. > > 1. The ease of use is similar to Windows. > 2. I hear that Suse has some type of a deal for schools. > 3. Linux is capable of being used as a client and a server without buying > server software. > > Any help I can get from this group would be appreciated. > > Howard Hi: For starters, we'll have to follow up on this SuSE for U.S. High Schools: http://www.suse.com/us/press/press_releases/archive01/Free_SuSE_Linux.html I ran the address for filling out the form, but that is no longer available. There is an email address for contact: mailto:hd@suse.de for Holger Dyroff, and you might ask what the situation is. If you're uncomfortable doing this, I will. Just let me know. If you do, then will you report to the list what happened? The ease of installing SuSE really is close to Windoz at this point, I think. And, you'll see when you install, you're given a choice of installing as a server, workstation, custom, and upgrade. Lots of reasons to consider using SuSE, or any of the major distributions at this time. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 13 22:56:45 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Bloomberg article on US Rep Schiff's copyright protection act In-Reply-To: <20020414032407.33823.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020414032407.33823.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02041320564501.14654@aether> Hi: Very good email. Enjoyed it. I sent one as well, and hopefully, a lot of the other list members will too. My only suggestion would be to figure out a neat way to insert a recommendation the author[s] always take the time to get the facts by visiting http://www.eff.org/. What do you think? Thanks, tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Saturday 13 April 2002 20:24, Larry Blunk wrote: > I just came across this Bloomberg article in today's Detroit News > at http://www.detnews.com/2002/technology/0204/13/technology-463117.htm. > There's not much new here, but what caught my eye was the reporter's > assertion as fact of Disney's and News Corp's claims of "billions" > in losses. I think we have done a poor job of informing the press > and our representatives that these claims of "losses" are purely > fictional. Here is my email to the reporter (Katherine Reynolds Lewis) > who authored this article -- > > > Dear Ms. Lewis, > I wish to take issue with your statement that Disney and News Corp. are > losing "billions of dollars to piracy". While it is fair to say that the > "value" of their content being pirated is "estimated" to be in the > billions, it is utterly false to claim these as "losses". There is no > cost to these companies for these duplicated works. And there is > absolutely no reason to believe that if such unauthorized copies could be > magically stopped, it would translate into sales that equalled their > estimated value. Do you really believe a person living on third-world > wages and paying $1 a copy for movies and software would buy such items in > the same quantities if charged full retail prices in the 10's or 100's of > dollars? Or the individual engaged in trading 10's or 100's of MP3 audio > files per month would pay the 100's of dollars per month these files are > valued at if such trading were impossible? > > In short, the "billions in losses" claimed by Disney and News Corp. are > outright fabrications. There are as equally outrageous as Enron Corp's > accounting of "billions" in profits. > > > Sincerely, > Larry J. Blunk > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 13 23:29:05 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Linux on Walmart's systemless computers In-Reply-To: <20020414041816.GR21811@micromuse.com> References: <20020413221610.GA1634@eiv.com> <20020413234937.GA2778@eiv.com> <20020414041816.GR21811@micromuse.com> Message-ID: <02041321290500.14935@aether> Hi: Les Vadasz, Vice President of Intel, told Hollings, flat out that his legislation was a disgrace, that it was impossible to accomplish what he wants for Hollywood, unless he's willing to sacrifice Open Source technology to the depths of criminal disgrace, unless he's willing to sacrifice a $600 billion a year industry [technology industry dedicated to providing advancements that make consumers happy customers] in favor of Hollywood, a $35 billion a year industry that will remove this mailing list, your ability to copy photos of your family on your computer, and the list goes on. Send a thank you to Les Vadasz, and Intel, for standing up to these jerks and their ridiculous CBDTPA law. Visit http://www.eff.org/ for the factual information. :) Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ Time to wake up! Or, you will absolutely lose Debian! On Saturday 13 April 2002 21:18, Nathan E Norman wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2002 at 07:49:38PM -0400, Shawn McMahon wrote: > > begin Paul 'Baloo' Johnson quotation: > > > > Does the system on which you're reading this have an Intel processor? > > > > > > No, but they're not the evil empire. > > > > At least as much as Wal-Mart is. And, like Wal-Mart, they have a > > quality product that a lot of people want. In my old home town in > > Oklahoma, they were the best grocery store in town, and the ONLY 24-hour > > place to buy computer equipment. > > > > But my point wasn't that Wal-Mart is good, or that Intel is bad; my > > point was that one shouldn't berate someone else for doing business with > > one evil conglomerate while one is doing business with another. > > > > You aren't doing business with the particular example I picked, but I > > bet I could find one pretty easily if anybody cared enough for me to > > bother. I won't, because the point is made without it. > > I must disagree with you drawing any parallel between Intel and > Wal-Mart. It's worse than comparing apples and oranges ... at least > those are both fruit. > > Intel is an American company, selling goods designed by Americans and > made in America. Intel is not hurting small mom-and-pop operations > all over the country as they sell their product. > > Wal-Mart sells Chinese crap which is cheaper in price and quality than > goods produced elsewhere (like, here). This causes the trade deficit > to remain high. When Wal-Mart moves into an area, smaller hardware, > convenience, and grocery stores suffer. This hurts the local economy > in some cases as profits are removed from the area. > > If Wal-Mart goes into an area and provides services which were > unavailable, that's good. If Wal-Mart goes into an area which was > already well served and destroys local competition by selling inferior > products ... well, I don't know if I'm willing to say that's bad, but > it's not good. Unfortunately, if consumers are stupid enough to buy > the cute Paul Harvey ads and not worry about whether they are getting > the same quality, Wal-Mart wins. > > This is off-topic and should probably be taken up on debian-curiosa or > some other list. > > Cheers, ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 14 00:23:03 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:08 2004 Subject: Does CBDTPA impact on text-to-voice? Message-ID: <02041322230300.15364@aether> Hi: Will the restrictions from the CBDTPA impact on using text-to-voice for the blind? For using VOIP? I'll start looking at that tomorrow, I guess. Thanks, tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 14 09:04:30 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Does CBDTPA impact on text-to-voice? In-Reply-To: References: <02041322230300.15364@aether> Message-ID: <02041407043000.17269@aether> Hi: Well, I would flip my cork, if it turns out that disabilities suffer such a setback. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Sunday 14 April 2002 05:23, iriXx wrote: > complaints to: /dev/null > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Message-Id: <200204141323.22255@miriam@wembly.iriXx.org> > > i believe there are specific provisions within the bill itself - one of the > things i noticed was that if one wished to make a 'hearing book' or a > braille copy you have to give the original publisher a year to release it > themselves... effectively meaning that blind people arent allowed new > releases! > i would have to confirm this, its somewhere in a mountain of stuff i have > collected for writing a book on this topic (along with several essays!) - > please feel free to drop me a line at miriam@iriXx.org if you would like me > to chase it up. > > best wishes > > miriam aka iriXx > > tom poe wrote: > > Hi: Will the restrictions from the CBDTPA impact on using text-to-voice > > for the blind? For using VOIP? I'll start looking at that tomorrow, I > > guess. Thanks, > > tom > > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > ------------------------ > > http://www.anti-dmca.org > > ------------------------ > > > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 14 14:03:05 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Fwd: RE: Intel Continues to DO IT RIGHT! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041412030502.18049@aether> Hi: thanks, and I hope some of you can take this idea and run with it. I'll see if I can stir up some content for these recordings. Tom On Sunday 14 April 2002 11:54, WXYC Chapel Hill 89.3FM wrote: > I'll forward the request on to our body of DJs, and someone may be able to > help point you in the right direction. If anyone can help, I'll have them > e-mail you directly. Thanks, & good luck! Best- WXYC > > On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, tom poe wrote: > > Hi: I'm forwarding the message below in hopes you can help. > > Thanks, > > Tom Poe > > Reno, NV > > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Fwd: RE: Intel Continues to DO IT RIGHT! > > Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:10:07 -0700 > > From: tom poe > > To: Simon Drabble > > > > > > On Friday 12 April 2002 05:59, Simon Drabble wrote: > > - - -snip - - -- > > > > > again, our only strength will be in numbers. anyone have any idea what > > > a prime-time cable tv ad costs? or even not prime-time. > > > > > > Si. > > > > Hi: Well, your point is well-taken. I am pursuing an Open Source > > Project that is dedicated to creating community-based recording studios. > > It will be weeks to months before this jells. Now, supposing someone > > were to be able to identify several [or lots] of "basement" studios that > > folks have in their homes, and create a variety of recordings that could > > be used by the remaining [and dwindling] web radio broadcasters. Since > > the quality of the recordings isn't an issue, but the distribution is, > > let's think about how we might work those recordings into the mainstream > > media, and get the word out that this copyright assault is going to have > > to be stopped. If it's not, everyone will lose the Internet, lose the > > computer, and have only expensive, "Big Brother" devices available to > > them. Anyone know who might have "basement" studio stuff that could let > > us test this approach? > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 14 14:56:54 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] price fixing since 1996 caused CD sales slowdown In-Reply-To: <20020414115605.F76920@networkcommand.com> References: <20020414115605.F76920@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <02041412565400.18525@aether> Hi: Amazing graphics. Believable commentary. Excellent work. Where's hillary? Thanks, tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Sunday 14 April 2002 11:56, Jon O. wrote: > http://scriban.com/movabletype/2002_04_12.html#002506 > > since 1995-96, when both the FTC and 28 states' Attorneys General maintain > that the major record labels colluded to fix prices for compact discs, the > RIAA's figures show a steady increase in the average price of a CD. the > numbers also reveal that while the labels were engaged in price-fixing the > overall sales of CDs slowed relative to the preceding period of aggressive > price competition. > > http://scriban.com/movabletype/2002_04_12.html#002506 > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 14 21:34:34 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Things that I would like to see from the Linux Community In-Reply-To: <3CBA10AF.9010604@citlink.net> References: <3CBA10AF.9010604@citlink.net> Message-ID: <02041419343400.20206@aether> On Sunday 14 April 2002 16:28, Lance Lane wrote: > A strong comittment to rural schools. Where my mother in-law teachers > for the S'kllalam Tribe in Washington State they had about 30 computers > donated from a bank. Catch they have no operating system on them. I > told her that it would be ideal to put Linux on those computers. They > are dealing with M$ and the computers are still sitting. Hi, Lance: Well, let's get them up and running. All we need to do, is find a local body, interested in being our hands on this list, and we'll coordinate with the users list to get answers, and exciting things will happen. Lance is hereby 'Da Boss! Find out if your mom can track someone down to be the local contact. How's that sound? This'll be great. I want to volunteer, and will make a commitment to see this through with you, if you want. Thanks, Tom Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > > Lance From ldlane at citlink.net Sun Apr 14 22:30:16 2002 From: ldlane at citlink.net (Lance Lane) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Things that I would like to see from the Linux Community References: <3CBA10AF.9010604@citlink.net> <02041419343400.20206@aether> Message-ID: <3CBA4948.9040109@citlink.net> Thanks Tom! :-) I am sending her an email to let her know. She and I are both gone during the day and they go to bed a bit early. I should know something tomorrow. I sure any help will be appreciated. tom poe wrote: >On Sunday 14 April 2002 16:28, Lance Lane wrote: > >>A strong comittment to rural schools. Where my mother in-law teachers >>for the S'kllalam Tribe in Washington State they had about 30 computers >>donated from a bank. Catch they have no operating system on them. I >>told her that it would be ideal to put Linux on those computers. They >>are dealing with M$ and the computers are still sitting. >> > >Hi, Lance: Well, let's get them up and running. All we need to do, is find >a local body, interested in being our hands on this list, and we'll >coordinate with the users list to get answers, and exciting things will >happen. Lance is hereby 'Da Boss! Find out if your mom can track someone >down to be the local contact. How's that sound? This'll be great. I want >to volunteer, and will make a commitment to see this through with you, if you >want. >Thanks, >Tom >Reno, NV >http://www.studioforrecording.org/ >http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ >http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > >> >>Lance >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/renotahoe-pm/attachments/20020414/7fc9ed25/attachment.htm From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 06:48:30 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: ebxml status - history Message-ID: <02041504483000.22306@aether> Hello: I am interested in providing an update on the status, along with a history of this specification as it relates to your organization. Could you suggest a clear and understandable source or sources that I might be referred to? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 07:05:12 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Status and History Question on ebxml standards Message-ID: <02041505051200.22352@aether> Hi: Somewhere in the last few days, I think there was an alert as to the significance of this standard, suggesting that IBM and MS hold patents on it, and it is operating under RAND licensing. The concern is, that I also remember a term, "Gatekeeper", and that term always gets my interest. Unfortunately, I did not stop long enough to get a handle on this. The reason I bring this up on this list, is that "Gatekeeper" technology is a critical component of access to information. Considering the major patent holders of this Open W3.org - sponsored - standard carries a high credibility risk with it, and I wonder if anyone has a referral to sites that might give some insight into the status and history of this standard? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ -- From: Klaus-Dieter Naujok [mailto:knaujok@home.com] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 4:06 AM To: ebXML General List Subject: ebXML Approved On Friday 11 May ebXML approved _ALL_ required Specifications, Technical Reports and White Papers resulting in proving the ebXML eBusiness Frameworks as set out 18 months ago. This was only possible by the deep desire of all participating experts from the business and vendor world, be it via the project team list or attending the ebXML meetings. I like to congratulate you all for a job well done. Please visit our web site next week to download all final documents as well as the information on our next steps. Regards, Klaus -- Klaus-Dieter Naujok ebXML & TMWG Chair Netfish Technologies, Santa Clara, CA, Chief Technology Officer From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 07:24:11 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: status of ebxml standard Message-ID: <02041505241100.22452@aether> Hello: What is the status of the ebxml standard at this time, and, specifically, is it a RAND standard? If the answer is yes, is there a responsibility on the part of W3.org to make available a list of those standards that are RAND standards for public view? Communications are an important part of your work, and your site at this time doesn't lend itself to clarity, if I may comment. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 12:49:21 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Whoa In-Reply-To: <02041112562905.17178@aether> References: <1018534959.3cb59c2f60f8f@www.ameliaschools.com> <20020411193212.738541E66F@Cantor.suse.de> <02041112562905.17178@aether> Message-ID: <02041510492100.23505@aether> Hi: I just received this. It was originally sent on Thursday, 11, 2002 at 12:32. What gives? Thanks, Tom On Thursday 11 April 2002 12:56, tom poe wrote: > On Thursday 11 April 2002 12:32, David Herman wrote: > - - -snip - - - > > > Since you brought up the idea of libraries I thought this info might be > > relevant. > > > > One problem that I've run across (w/ my local libraries) is the > > interface they use for online access to their catalogs. Both library > > systems (King County and Seattle Public) use Java , and I've never been > > able to get them to display properly (100%) in any Linux browser. > > > > (the sites if you are interested > > http://webpac.kcls.org/ > > http://webpac.spl.org/webclient.html) > > - - -snip - - - > > Hi, David: If I were you, I would forward this email to them, pronto: > > "You are using a browser that is not Java-enabled. " > > That's what I get when I use a text-based browser, lynx. What that means > to me, is, that anyone who relies on text-to-voice for using the Internet > to access the public library, is - - -well, what a shame. Also, I > encourage you to copy this to your mayor, city council, and any news media > in the community, not to mention the local organizations that work with the > disabled. Remember, these are federally funded entities. > > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 14:38:00 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Fwd: [seul-edu] Linux in education report #68 for April 15 Message-ID: <02041512380000.23861@aether> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [seul-edu] Linux in education report #68 for April 15 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:20:07 -0400 From: Doug Loss To: lwn@lwn.net, tina@newsforge.com, schoolforge-discuss@schooforge.net, seul-edu@seul.org It's here: -- Doug Loss All I want is a warm bed Data Network Coordinator and a kind word and Bloomsburg University unlimited power. dloss@bloomu.edu Ashleigh Brilliant ------------------------------------------------------- From alex at synchcorp.com Mon Apr 15 18:45:44 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Things that I would like to see from the Linux Community References: <3CBA10AF.9010604@citlink.net> <02041419343400.20206@aether> <3CBA4948.9040109@citlink.net> Message-ID: <3CBB6628.B4B85360@synchcorp.com> You can count me in on that, too! Lance Lane wrote: > Thanks Tom! :-) > > I am sending her an email to let her know. She and I are both gone > during the day and they go to bed a bit early. I should know something > tomorrow. I sure any help will be appreciated. > > tom poe wrote: > > >On Sunday 14 April 2002 16:28, Lance Lane wrote: > > > >>A strong comittment to rural schools. Where my mother in-law teachers > >>for the S'kllalam Tribe in Washington State they had about 30 computers > >>donated from a bank. Catch they have no operating system on them. I > >>told her that it would be ideal to put Linux on those computers. They > >>are dealing with M$ and the computers are still sitting. > >> > > > >Hi, Lance: Well, let's get them up and running. All we need to do, is find > >a local body, interested in being our hands on this list, and we'll > >coordinate with the users list to get answers, and exciting things will > >happen. Lance is hereby 'Da Boss! Find out if your mom can track someone > >down to be the local contact. How's that sound? This'll be great. I want > >to volunteer, and will make a commitment to see this through with you, if you > >want. > >Thanks, > >Tom > >Reno, NV > >http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > >http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > >http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > > >> > >>Lance > >> > > From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 19:33:42 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] IEEE Adds DMCA Clause for Submitted Papers In-Reply-To: <40E19D7F-50C8-11D6-86FF-0003938C3EE0@speakeasy.net> References: <40E19D7F-50C8-11D6-86FF-0003938C3EE0@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <02041517334201.24923@aether> On Monday 15 April 2002 16:26, Matthew T. Russotto wrote: > On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at 12:41 PM, Jon O. wrote: > > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/04/14/166232.shtml?tid=103 > > > > IEEE Adds DMCA Clause for Submitted Papers > > Posted by timothy on Sunday April 14, @12:41PM > > from the just-sign-here dept. > > xpccx writes: "Newsforge has this blurb about the IEEE changing its > > 'IEEE Copyright Form' for submissions to the 'IEEE Copyright Transfer & > > Export Control Compliance Form.' From the IEEE site: 'While the IEEE > > standard manuscript submission process has always required authors to > > represent that the necessary clearances and approvals have been > > obtained, the newly revised Form now requires the author's explicit > > affirmation that the manuscript does not violate U.S. export laws or > > restrictions.' And specifically from the new form, 'The undersigned > > further warrants that the publication or dissemination of the Work > > shall not violate any proprietary right or the Digital Copyright > > Millennium Act (the "DCMA").' Maybe the IEEE just wants to protect > > itself from DMCA lawsuits, but I hope their intention is not to abandon > > authors who get sued." > > Just another line in the EFF's amicus brief.... no First Amendment > scrutiny my ... > Hi: My understanding is, that as a result of policies implemented in the mid-nineties through some "White Paper" recommendation put up by our favorite Bruce Lehman, and his grand vision of the Information Age, that "intellectual property" would avoid First Amendment issues. However, in order to accomplish that goal, "they" had to get to a point where copyright and patents were handled by a global "doorway", controlled by a singular body. Until then, First Amendment issues remain legitimate, don't they? >From way down here, I would, if I were an illustrious author/IT expert, kindly publicize at great length my declination to present a paper, and move to another medium or venue, whatever. That is an unacceptable policy for our government to implement. I wonder just how long, now, before we see a "standardized, government DMCA" clause on every document? Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 22:05:41 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Re: [Community_studios] Re: [suse-schools-usa] Things that I would like to see from the Linux Community In-Reply-To: <3CBB8F52.B7557DBD@synchcorp.com> References: <3CBA10AF.9010604@citlink.net> <02041517221600.24923@aether> <3CBB8F52.B7557DBD@synchcorp.com> Message-ID: <02041520054105.24923@aether> On Monday 15 April 2002 19:41, Alex wrote: > I remember reading an article where someone in the Phillipines booted a > clean PC with a boot disk with some network support, and then someone else > in Massachussetts installed Linux over the Internet onto the PC!! If there > was someone local that had some basic computer skills, we might be able to > get some kind of remote school support team together. It would be doable if > we found enough volunteers who had free time at various times during the > day... definitely easier than trying to remotely administer Win98 machines, > believe me! I prefer the prospect of supporting a bunch of Linux boxes > across the Internet than a bunch of Win98's even across a WAN. That's my > current job, so I know! 8^) > > Alex Heizer > http://www.synchcorp.com/alex > http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer > http://www.tekdevelopment.com Hi: I think we can find plenty of volunteers. Plus, there should be enough resources to provide redundancy of some sort to hold things, if a problem does come up, maybe? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 15 22:51:44 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: IEEE Pauses . . . and thinks! Message-ID: <02041520514400.25801@aether> Hi: This is better. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ Controversial copyright clause abandoned 17:30 15 April 02 NewScientist.com news service The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), which publishes 30 per cent of all computer science journals worldwide, is to stop requiring authors to comply with a controversial US digital copyright law. The IEEE produced a new set of conditions for publication at the beginning of 2002. These required that authors' work must not contravene the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). Many academics believe the DMCA discourages scientists from publishing valuable research through fear of legal action. The DMCA prohibits "any technology, product, service, device, component or part" that circumvents digital copy protection systems. This includes the software encryption designed to stop people making copies of music or video files, for example. Scientists say the Act means that just producing research on a copy protection system could land them in legal trouble. From ylafon at w3.org Tue Apr 16 10:13:36 2002 From: ylafon at w3.org (Yves Lafon) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: status of ebxml standard In-Reply-To: <02041505241100.22452@aether> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, tom poe wrote: > Hello: What is the status of the ebxml standard at this time, and, > specifically, is it a RAND standard? If the answer is yes, is there a > responsibility on the part of W3.org to make available a list of those > standards that are RAND standards for public view? Communications are an > important part of your work, and your site at this time doesn't lend itself > to clarity, if I may comment. Hi, As you are asking for ebXML status of their documents, it would be better to either email them or try to get this information from their web site [1] or from their FAQ [2]. Best regards, [1] http://www.ebxml.org/ [2] http://www.ebxml.org/faq.htm -- Yves Lafon - W3C "Baroula que barouleras, au ti?u toujou t'entourneras." From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 16 11:40:59 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: status of ebxml standard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041609405901.28377@aether> On Tuesday 16 April 2002 08:13, Yves Lafon wrote: > On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, tom poe wrote: > > Hello: What is the status of the ebxml standard at this time, and, > > specifically, is it a RAND standard? If the answer is yes, is there a > > responsibility on the part of W3.org to make available a list of those > > standards that are RAND standards for public view? Communications are an > > important part of your work, and your site at this time doesn't lend > > itself to clarity, if I may comment. > > Hi, > As you are asking for ebXML status of their documents, it would be better > to either email them or try to get this information from their web site > [1] or from their FAQ [2]. > Best regards, > > [1] http://www.ebxml.org/ > [2] http://www.ebxml.org/faq.htm Hi: What is the status of the ebXML standard? Is it a RAND standard? Second, will W3.org please post a list of their standards, and which ones are RAND standards? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 16 15:13:04 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Informational Interview Request Message-ID: <02041613130400.29241@aether> Hello: I represent the RenoTahoe Perl Users' Group, which is undertaking in a coordinated effort with others, to create and provide a model for schools wishing to add computers and educational software to their schools' assets. You may have been exposed to some similar programs in the past, and, with that in mind, I would like the opportunity to meet and discuss some of your experiences. This is an informational interview request, and I would like to keep the discussion within such a framework, if possible. It is our goal to build a model that will be available to others to follow, and is comprised of information on how to obtain computers, what steps to take to install and maintain quality educational software that does not require licensing fees, and how to attract a 24X7 Team of volunteer technical support staff. Such a model will provide schools with truly state-of-the-art Operating Systems, software, and even hardware in most cases. Cost is to be held to $0.00 for the schools, with only volunteer time and effort involved. In return, the model imposes a responsibility on the recipients to share their knowledge and experience with other schools, in order to "spread the word". Please respond to this request by sending a reply with a date and time which would be convenient for you. I will open my schedule to fit yours. The meeting should only take 10 to 15 minutes, if that's alright [sic]? Respectfully, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 17 09:09:57 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] RIAA calls anti-copy controls campaign 'misleading scare tactics' In-Reply-To: <18670628993.20020417092746@elcomsoft.com> References: <18670628993.20020417092746@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <02041707095700.00978@aether> On Tuesday 16 April 2002 22:27, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,94164,tk,cx041502a,00.asp Hi: Well, good. The RIAA has set itself up with a new set of rules. We should see some tech companies banding together to sue the RIAA for using "scare tactics" to drive people away from purchasing computer equipment. Thanks, Vladimir. By the way, organizations that change their mission statements from one day to the next, are highly suspect in the eyes of the IRS. Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 17 12:51:20 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Is a full accounting necessary? Message-ID: <02041710512000.02114@aether> Hi: I haven't received a response from previous messages. I'm beginning to think there's some reason for not working with members of the General Public. Please respond in a prompt and reasonable manner to the following request: 1] What is the status of the ebXML standard as set forth by the W3.org, at this time 2] Is there a list of the W3.org standards, and their status as royalty-free or RAND? There are multiple legislative matters pending around the world that impact directly, although couched in copyright terms, on the General Public's use of patent-encumbered global standards. It is important that those standards that are patent-encumbered be identified by your organization. Respectfully, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 17 13:14:05 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: How to id all RAND "standards" Question Message-ID: <02041711140501.02114@aether> Hi: I've spent the last week trying to communicate with the W3.org folks in an effort to get a handle on a clear and easy to read list of W3.org standards and categorized as to whether these standards are either royalty-free, or RAND [patent-encumbered]. Does anyone know where I might get such an organized list that's authoritative and can be relied upon? I can't help but worry that the proposed legislative assault is going to somehow integrate controls that include utilization of patent-encumbered standards to the benefit of corporations such as IBM and Microsoft in the case of ebXML, and others. A fellow named Thomas Fielding [of Apache fame] wrote a nice dissertation on http and did a good job of laying out some of the options for the future of the Internet. In the face of such logic, we somehow are all caught up in attempts to move away from this standard for communicating, through proprietary protocols. This begs the question, Why? I recommend the dissertation as some interesting reading. http://www1.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/top Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 17 22:35:15 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Fwd: How to id all RAND "standards" Question Message-ID: <02041720351500.04511@aether> Hello: This is maybe a good question that you might assist with? I'd really appreciate any advice, pointers, suggestions or comments on how to get a "tally" on what is what. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: How to id all RAND "standards" Question Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:14:05 -0700 From: tom poe To: "DMCA" Hi: I've spent the last week trying to communicate with the W3.org folks in an effort to get a handle on a clear and easy to read list of W3.org standards and categorized as to whether these standards are either royalty-free, or RAND [patent-encumbered]. Does anyone know where I might get such an organized list that's authoritative and can be relied upon? I can't help but worry that the proposed legislative assault is going to somehow integrate controls that include utilization of patent-encumbered standards to the benefit of corporations such as IBM and Microsoft in the case of ebXML, and others. A fellow named Thomas Fielding [of Apache fame] wrote a nice dissertation on http and did a good job of laying out some of the options for the future of the Internet. In the face of such logic, we somehow are all caught up in attempts to move away from this standard for communicating, through proprietary protocols. This begs the question, Why? I recommend the dissertation as some interesting reading. http://www1.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/top Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 18 00:29:21 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Interesting quote from President nat'l assoc recording merchandisers Message-ID: <02041722292100.04886@aether> Hi: I came across Pam Horovitz' speech to the IRMA in March. Original link was located on the lawmeme site. Here's the quote: http://www.narm.com/Content/NavigationMenu/Media_Center/Speeches_and_commentaries/Pam_Addresses_IRMA/Pam_Addresses_IRMA.htm Here's a better link I think: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V2E1226B Here's the quote on PUBDOMAIN BREAD: http://www.studioforrecording.org/blogger.html Here's the quote: There's no reason these cool new gizmos can't come with pre-recorded music. How about Britney and Justin's favorite Valentine Love Songs packaged in a heart necklace? That might require some creative bundling, and unbundling, of music. It may require more cooperation between labels and retailers. It may require more flexible licensing arrangements. It may mean a rethinking of the appropriate length of copyright, with more robust offerings deriving from a constantly replenished public domain. from speech given by Pam Horovitz, President of National Association of Recording Merchandisers on March 23, 2002. First time I've seen reference to the Public Domain, I do believe, in all of this. . . . Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 18 10:26:43 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Now Your Own Middleman for Privacy . . . . Message-ID: <02041808264300.06945@aether> Hi: At first blush, this looks like a nice personal medical privacy arrangement. Would really upset insurance companies, employers, others who say they have "rights" to your personal information. I can see it now, the local Privacy COOP!! Wonder if it runs afoul of Hollings' Law? Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ [PRIVACY] Student Proposes Technology to Limit FBI's Carnivore A graduate student at Dartmouth College wants to tame the FBI's Carnivore surveillance system. Alex Iliev has proposed a way to force anyone who wants to monitor e-mail or Web browsing to follow the rules -- and not snoop on private data that should be off-limits. Read the article: Wired News @ http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,51917,00.html ===================================================== To subscribe to (or unsubscribe from) GigaLaw.com Daily News, or for other subscription options, go to http://www.gigalaw.com/newsletters/dailynews.html ------------------------------------------------------ GigaLaw.com Daily News is published by and copyright (c) 2002 Dolesco LLC, Doug Isenberg, Esq., Editor & Publisher (mailto:disenberg@GigaLaw.com) ===================================================== From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 18 13:26:01 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Fwd: [alg] Was in Linuxjournal now /.ed In-Reply-To: <200204180938.29599.dru@worldskip.com> References: <02041810160000.07392@aether> <200204180938.29599.dru@worldskip.com> Message-ID: <02041811260100.07717@aether> On Thursday 18 April 2002 06:38, Andrew Choens wrote: If we set the boxes up so > they could tinker with, but not destroy the computers set-up, we might be > amazed what they could teach themselves. There are lots of community based > groups out there that might be interested in this sort of a plan. Hi: No problem, Andrew. They destroy, and fix, and support is available through volunteers. The malicious destruction isn't a big problem, I don't think. Could be wrong, but at the same time, I don't think there's a realistic solution that would lend itself to this issue. We'll just have to deal with it, and make sure the schools have support available. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 18 13:28:25 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Inquires from Camplotsafun.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041811282501.07717@aether> Hi, Tyrone: Thanks. Will do. On Thursday 18 April 2002 11:18, Tyrone Brooks wrote: > Tom, > > I believe we could do something at our session #1 and session #3 for a > couple of hours for one day each session. Keep me posted on your progress > and well make a final decision by June 14th. > > Tyrone > > -----Original Message----- > From: tom poe [mailto:tompoe@renonevada.net] > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:32 PM > To: camplotsafun@abac.com > Subject: Inquires from Camplotsafun.com > > > Hi, Tyrone: Hope this finds you well and prospering. We're working > with the idea of putting a SuSE school demo together to pass around for > their evaluation and "sell them" on the idea of coordinating donated > computers, Open Source software/Operating System, and support from > volunteers in the community. To that end, we are thinking we can invite > IT departments at companies to form Teams that will be on-call to help > when needed. > > That brings me to wonder, if we get this to jell a bit, and the demo > system is up by the time your camp occurs, how about using it? We don't > need to provide Internet access, as we'll have some apps on it to keep > everyone busy and happy. Let me know what you think. > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 18 13:45:00 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Media should be quoting this stuff? Message-ID: <02041811450000.07797@aether> Hi: Here's a quote from NARM's response to "a request by House Judiciary Committee Chair James Sensenbrenner for information on digital music issues, NARM President Pam Horovitz outlined NARM's positions, . . . " http://www.narm.com/Content/NavigationMenu/Public_Affairs/sensenbrenner/sensenbrenner.htm 4/15/02 "NARM retailers are cautious about characterizing all copying -- lawful and pirate -- as cannibalizing sales of CDs. Recently the assertion was made that 3.6 billion tracks get downloaded for free every month off the Internet. At an average of 15 cuts per CD, this translates to 240 million CD's per month or 2.88 billion CDs per year. At an average of $18 listprice per CD, this means that the calculated loss to the industry is $51.8 billion per year, or almost five times the entire retail market. A broader examination of the facts suggests this is unlikely." "First, only about 7% of all U.S. households have a broadband connection. Without a broadband connection, a download can take up to 15 minutes per track, which means that this group would have to spend about 18 hours downloading the 72 songs a month that represent their share of the file-sharing pie. Logic confirms that a disproportionate number of downloads are happening where broadband is available (i.e. colleges). Therefore, the average number of downloads on college campuses would have to be significantly higher than the 864-track average. In contrast, two studies show the average number of songs downloaded per month is between 30 to 34, or 408 files per year -- significantly less than what has been reported by the recording industry. The discrepancy in figures may result from the inclusion of incomplete downloads in the total figure reported. It is unclear whether the recording industry's figures include attempts or only completed downloads of songs." "Second, there is some data that support regarding at least a percentage of downloads as sampling rather than cannibalized sales. Several studies indicate that the main reason people download is to check out new music (Ipsos, Mercer, Jupiter) and that downloaders don't save files of music that they find they don't like (Webnoize). In that regard, file-sharing may function like radio play as well as like CD purchasing. Millions of listeners hear songs repeatedly on the radio but may never buy them. Nevertheless the industry recognizes that radio airplay stimulates sales. Similarly, several studies indicate that sales activity is stimulated by file-sharing." Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 18 14:28:10 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [suse-schools-usa] Fwd: [alg] Was in Linuxjournal now /.ed In-Reply-To: <200204181041.35694.dru@worldskip.com> References: <02041811260100.07717@aether> <200204181041.35694.dru@worldskip.com> Message-ID: <02041812281000.07931@aether> Hi, Andrew: Try this on for size: http://www.worldccr.org/kiosks.htm Now, there's a systemic solution! If you're into marketing, this is a multi-million dollar commission, waiting for the right connection, and all you have to do, is get to the right corporate decision-maker for any developing country project of choice. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 18 April 2002 07:41, Andrew Choens wrote: > Hmm, > I disagree because of the type of problem being discussed. This is not a > localized issue. This is a systemic issue that is becoming ingrained in > the fundamental structure of our society. We are truly at risk at becoming > a very divided country. When that happens, social instability is always > the outcome. > Because this is a systemic problem, some sort of a radical systemic action > may be required. Linux coders got tired of the system and revolutionized > computing. See the direction I'm going here? If computers can be > harnessed at the community level, they can become tools of social > empowerment. Schools are very likely to continue trudging along in the > direction they have been going in for years. Heck, churches might be the > ideal medium. They have large numbers of people coming to them, and people > trust them, and churches tend to have an interest in education (not all of > course). But, in poor areas, people tend to use the church down the > street, not the other side of town, so the kids would have easy access to > the cluster. > As for destruction, I was actually referring to the system configuration. > Permissions would need to be set up very carefully giving them access to > some configuration options but nothing too powerful, or they might really > confuse things, which would drive maintenance costs up. But, I do think > they should be able to change languages, styles, and all other superficial > settings as they explore the workings of the system. > Installation of new programs should even be allowed, but not > removal....see what I'm getting at? > > Peace > --andy choens > > On Thursday 18 April 2002 02:26 pm, tom poe wrote: > > On Thursday 18 April 2002 06:38, Andrew Choens wrote: > > If we set the boxes up so > > > > > they could tinker with, but not destroy the computers set-up, we might > > > be amazed what they could teach themselves. There are lots of > > > community based groups out there that might be interested in this sort > > > of a plan. > > > > Hi: No problem, Andrew. They destroy, and fix, and support is available > > through volunteers. The malicious destruction isn't a big problem, I > > don't think. Could be wrong, but at the same time, I don't think there's > > a realistic solution that would lend itself to this issue. We'll just > > have to deal with it, and make sure the schools have support available. > > Thanks, > > Tom Poe > > Reno, NV > > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > -- > To unsubscribe, email: suse-schools-usa-unsubscribe@suse.com > For additional commands, email: suse-schools-usa-help@suse.com > For help, email: suse-schools-usa-owner@suse.com From anatoly at total-knowledge.com Thu Apr 18 15:30:15 2002 From: anatoly at total-knowledge.com (Anatoly Volynets) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Media should be quoting this stuff? In-Reply-To: <02041811450000.07797@aether> References: <02041811450000.07797@aether> Message-ID: <20020418203020.27284.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> Congressmen should consider this stuff. And I would remind two more points: 1. Even in those cases when people download or copy for free music and other files in order to save and keep them, this does not mean they would pay for that stuff. 2. The mentioned price of $18 per CD emerged on monopolized market and may not be considered in argument. Anatoly On Thursday 18 April 2002 11:45 am, tom poe wrote: > Hi: Here's a quote from NARM's response to "a request by House Judiciary > Committee Chair James Sensenbrenner for information on digital music > issues, NARM President Pam Horovitz outlined NARM's positions, . . . " > http://www.narm.com/Content/NavigationMenu/Public_Affairs/sensenbrenner/sen >senbrenner.htm 4/15/02 > "NARM retailers are cautious about characterizing all copying -- lawful and > pirate -- as cannibalizing sales of CDs. Recently the assertion was made > that 3.6 billion tracks get downloaded for free every month off the > Internet. At an average of 15 cuts per CD, this translates to 240 million > CD's per month or 2.88 billion CDs per year. At an average of $18 listprice > per CD, this means that the calculated loss to the industry is $51.8 > billion per year, or almost five times the entire retail market. A broader > examination of the facts suggests this is unlikely." > > "First, only about 7% of all U.S. households have a broadband connection. > Without a broadband connection, a download can take up to 15 minutes per > track, which means that this group would have to spend about 18 hours > downloading the 72 songs a month that represent their share of the > file-sharing pie. Logic confirms that a disproportionate number of > downloads are happening where broadband is available (i.e. colleges). > Therefore, the average number of downloads on college campuses would have > to be > significantly higher than the 864-track average. In contrast, two studies > show the average number of songs downloaded per month is between 30 to 34, > or 408 files per year -- significantly less than what has been reported by > the recording industry. The discrepancy in figures may result from the > inclusion of incomplete downloads in the total figure reported. It is > unclear whether the recording industry's figures include attempts or only > completed downloads of songs." > > "Second, there is some data that support regarding at least a percentage of > downloads as sampling rather than cannibalized sales. Several studies > indicate that the main reason people download is to check out new music > (Ipsos, Mercer, Jupiter) and that downloaders don't save files of music > that they find they don't like (Webnoize). In that regard, file-sharing may > function like radio play as well as like CD purchasing. Millions of > listeners hear songs repeatedly on the radio but may never buy them. > Nevertheless the industry recognizes that radio airplay stimulates sales. > Similarly, several studies indicate that sales activity is stimulated by > file-sharing." > > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 19 00:56:58 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: We've been blogged . . . . that's a good thing Message-ID: <02041822565800.13893@aether> Hi: Check this out. Nice. http://doc.weblogs.com/ Tom From alex at synchcorp.com Fri Apr 19 12:00:07 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [suse-schools-usa] Fwd: [alg] Was in Linuxjournal now /.ed References: <02041810160000.07392@aether> <200204180938.29599.dru@worldskip.com> <02041811260100.07717@aether> Message-ID: <3CC04D17.6FC45A72@synchcorp.com> Good point. How else do people learn how things work? The fastest way people learn is by taking apart things to see why they work. I learned the most about computers in one sitting the day I first installed Slackware Linux, because it made me look at each piece of hardware and figure out what was going on. Then it made me break down the OS itself to figure out how it all fit together -- mke2fs, fdisk, devices, packets, processes... the list goes on. Do you think Windoze with their "you don't need to know what we're doing while we install ourselves for you, just sit back and trust us to do it all correctly out of sight of your prying eyes" mentality actually helps people to learn about how a computer works? Show me a room full of 100 computer-illiterate IT professionals and I'll show you 100 MCSEs. Show me a room full of 100 people that use and understand Linux, and I'll show you 100 people qualified to fix, troubleshoot or upgrade any computer in the world. Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > On Thursday 18 April 2002 06:38, Andrew Choens wrote: > If we set the boxes up so > > they could tinker with, but not destroy the computers set-up, we might be > > amazed what they could teach themselves. There are lots of community based > > groups out there that might be interested in this sort of a plan. > > Hi: No problem, Andrew. They destroy, and fix, and support is available > through volunteers. The malicious destruction isn't a big problem, I don't > think. Could be wrong, but at the same time, I don't think there's a > realistic solution that would lend itself to this issue. We'll just have to > deal with it, and make sure the schools have support available. > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 19 17:49:18 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Where's MS in all this? Message-ID: <02041915491800.01806@aether> Hi: Something tells me we still have MS standing in the wings on this one. In the meantime, my efforts to get the W3.org folks to cough up a readable list of what standards are royalty-free and what standards are patent-encumbered is being met with obfuscation and gobbledy-gook. And, richard stallman is playing dumb, as well. Tell me I'm wrong, but we could easily be headed for some real rough water, if we let the W3.org continue with this RAND nonsense, and let corporations take control of the standards. Of course, the folks at W3.org will each have their little "pensions" to take with them from the corporate sponsors, leaving the world with crap for standards. When the future comes, and these corporate jerks hold the key to the gate, the cost of accessing the Internet actively is raised. Just like what's happened to web radio. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ BM claim to ebXML patent sparks furor IBM claims it owns patent rights on the trading partner agreements associated with the ebXML trading standard, muddying the concept of openness among users and those who helped develop the specifications. http://computerworld.com/nlt/1%2C3590%2CNAV47_STO70384_NLTPM%2C00.html From simon at eskimo.com Fri Apr 19 18:17:16 2002 From: simon at eskimo.com (Simon Drabble) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Where's MS in all this? In-Reply-To: <02041915491800.01806@aether> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, tom poe wrote: > Hi: Something tells me we still have MS standing in the wings on this one. > In the meantime, my efforts to get the W3.org folks to cough up a readable > list of what standards are royalty-free and what standards are > patent-encumbered is being met with obfuscation and gobbledy-gook. And, > richard stallman is playing dumb, as well. Tell me I'm wrong, but we could > easily be headed for some real rough water, if we let the W3.org continue > with this RAND nonsense, and let corporations take control of the standards. > Of course, the folks at W3.org will each have their little "pensions" to take > with them from the corporate sponsors, leaving the world with crap for > standards. > > When the future comes, and these corporate jerks hold the key to the gate, > the cost of accessing the Internet actively is raised. Just like what's > happened to web radio. > > Thanks, > Tom Tom, I don't see existing standards going away any time soon, and unless W3 can find a way to render TCP useless (like, for instance, buying up all cisco routers and manufacturing replacements which speak, say, MS-CP) I don't know why we need rely on them at all. Seems they are a dinosaur, like RIAA et all, attempting to exert some last desperate grabs for control. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but really, what /do/ we need them for anymore? M$ and netscape have had /their/ own standards (or extensions) for years. Si. From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 19 19:04:43 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Where's MS in all this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02041917044300.02099@aether> Hi, Simon: You're right. The O'Reilly site is right on this, and here's the link: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/1305 I've been slugging along with this dissertation that lies at the heart of Simon's thinking on this stuff: http://www1.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/top.htm Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 19 April 2002 16:17, Simon Drabble wrote: > On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, tom poe wrote: > > Hi: Something tells me we still have MS standing in the wings on this > > one. In the meantime, my efforts to get the W3.org folks to cough up a > > readable list of what standards are royalty-free and what standards are > > patent-encumbered is being met with obfuscation and gobbledy-gook. And, > > richard stallman is playing dumb, as well. Tell me I'm wrong, but we > > could easily be headed for some real rough water, if we let the W3.org > > continue with this RAND nonsense, and let corporations take control of > > the standards. Of course, the folks at W3.org will each have their little > > "pensions" to take with them from the corporate sponsors, leaving the > > world with crap for standards. > > > > When the future comes, and these corporate jerks hold the key to the > > gate, the cost of accessing the Internet actively is raised. Just like > > what's happened to web radio. > > > > Thanks, > > Tom > > Tom, > > I don't see existing standards going away any time soon, and unless W3 can > find a way to render TCP useless (like, for instance, buying up all cisco > routers and manufacturing replacements which speak, say, MS-CP) I don't > know why we need rely on them at all. > > Seems they are a dinosaur, like RIAA et all, attempting to exert some last > desperate grabs for control. > > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but really, what /do/ we need them for > anymore? M$ and netscape have had /their/ own standards (or extensions) for > years. > > > Si. From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 19 23:22:00 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Fwd: [GKD] Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems Message-ID: <02041921220000.03290@aether> Hi: Know anyone in one of these "progressive" towns? They might want to check out our model, and go for it. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [GKD] Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:58:58 -0700 From: "Alan Levy" To: gkd@phoenix.edc.org Colleagues, Q. What does the story below say about the digital divide? A. It shows incumbents trying to monopolize. Q. What does it say about government? A. They purposely restrict ICT deployment and artificially raise costs. It's a shame Mr. Link Hoewing of Verizon considers competition a disincentive! Enjoy. --------------- SMALL TOWNS BUILD THEIR OWN HIGH-SPEED INTERNET SYSTEMS As politicians in Washington debate over the digital divide, many small towns are building their own bypasses to the information superhighway. "Some of these towns were too small to get the attention of the large incumbent providers -- the rate of return isn't there for them," said Ron Lunt, director of telecommunications services for the American Public Power Association. According to one government study, less than five percent of towns with fewer than 10,000 residents have both DSL and cable modem service available. Small towns are building their own systems, often providing high quality service at prices cheaper than commercial providers. Many towns are finding benefits beyond speedy Internet access. "It's a consumer-owned system - it helps support our parks, our pools, our police," says Keith Hill, borough manager for Kutztown, Pennsylvania. "The money stays in the community." Link Hoewing, assistant vice president for Internet and technology policy for Verizon, said that towns building their own "last mile" systems are doing a great disservice. Hoewing argues that the patchwork of local systems creates a disincentive for major providers to invest and build integrated networks. Eleven states currently bar or restrict municipalities from offering high-speed Internet service, but according to energy and telecommunications consultant Carol Heiberger, "...the cities and towns are saying, 'You're not doing anything for me now. This is about economic development.'" ------------------ Alan Levy Mexico, D.F. refconstandard@yahoo.com ===== Iustum et tenacem propositi virum si fractus inlabatur orbis impavidum ferient ruinae ------------ ***GKD is solely supported by EDC, an NGO that is a GKP member*** To post a message, send it to: To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message to: . In the 1st line of the message type: subscribe gkd OR type: unsubscribe gkd Archives of previous GKD messages can be found at: ------------------------------------------------------- From alex at synchcorp.com Sun Apr 21 12:47:39 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Fwd: [GKD] Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems References: <02041921220000.03290@aether> Message-ID: <3CC2FB3B.6FF914C6@synchcorp.com> Tom, It just shows that America hasn't changed much in some ways. Anyone remember the Company Store? Where government is swayed by big business, ordinary citizens get the shaft. On one hand, the corporations tell the government what's best for their constituents, and the government, having no contrary opinion, makes a decision based on the information available to them at the moment. On the other hand, people are so used to getting screwed around and either just complaining about it or just breaking the "unjust" law that they never seem to fight the corporations on the same playing field. It's always the corporations act and the people react, never the two acting at the same time. The problem comes in when laws are created to prevent competition to the monopoly. I couldn't care less if my competitor is Verizon and I want to set up my own ISP, just don't make it illegal for me to compete and I'll be fine. I can't believe anyone would be moronic enough to believe that making it illegal for someone to start a business in a locality that others are legally operating in the same locality would be good for anything. Anything except a bunch of criminals maintaining monopoly power. Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > Hi: Know anyone in one of these "progressive" towns? They might want to > check out our model, and go for it. > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: [GKD] Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems > Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:58:58 -0700 > From: "Alan Levy" > To: gkd@phoenix.edc.org > > Colleagues, > > Q. What does the story below say about the digital divide? > A. It shows incumbents trying to monopolize. > > Q. What does it say about government? > A. They purposely restrict ICT deployment and artificially raise > costs. > > It's a shame Mr. Link Hoewing of Verizon considers competition a > disincentive! > > Enjoy. > > --------------- > > SMALL TOWNS BUILD THEIR OWN HIGH-SPEED INTERNET SYSTEMS > > As politicians in Washington debate over the digital divide, many small > towns are building their own bypasses to the information superhighway. > "Some of these towns were too small to get the attention of the large > incumbent providers -- the rate of return isn't there for them," said > Ron Lunt, director of telecommunications services for the American > Public Power Association. According to one government study, less than > five percent of towns with fewer than 10,000 residents have both DSL and > cable modem service available. Small towns are building their own > systems, often providing high quality service at prices cheaper than > commercial providers. Many towns are finding benefits beyond speedy > Internet access. "It's a consumer-owned system - it helps support our > parks, our pools, our police," says Keith Hill, borough manager for > Kutztown, Pennsylvania. "The money stays in the community." > > Link Hoewing, assistant vice president for Internet and technology > policy for Verizon, said that towns building their own "last mile" > systems are doing a great disservice. Hoewing argues that the patchwork > of local systems creates a disincentive for major providers to invest > and build integrated networks. Eleven states currently bar or restrict > municipalities from offering high-speed Internet service, but according > to energy and telecommunications consultant Carol Heiberger, "...the > cities and towns are saying, 'You're not doing anything for me now. This > is about economic development.'" > > ------------------ > Alan Levy > Mexico, D.F. > refconstandard@yahoo.com > > ===== > Iustum et tenacem propositi virum > si fractus inlabatur orbis > impavidum ferient ruinae > > ------------ > ***GKD is solely supported by EDC, an NGO that is a GKP member*** > To post a message, send it to: > To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message to: > . In the 1st line of the message type: > subscribe gkd OR type: unsubscribe gkd > Archives of previous GKD messages can be found at: > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From alex at synchcorp.com Sun Apr 21 12:55:48 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: We've been blogged . . . . that's a good thing References: <02041822565800.13893@aether> Message-ID: <3CC2FD24.BFD4491A@synchcorp.com> In the words of C. Montgomery Burns: "Excellent..." tom poe wrote: > Hi: Check this out. Nice. > > http://doc.weblogs.com/ > > Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 09:30:40 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Adding apps to the Application Index (was: Message-ID: <02042207304002.16686@aether> On Monday 22 April 2002 07:13, Michael Hall wrote: - - -snip - - - > I wouldn't necessarily put SoundTracker in an upper > secondary/university only category, however. My 7 year old son can > happily create music independently using SoundTracker... it may not > be great music, but the point is that he can do it by himself. Also, > he's not using all of SoundTracker's functionality, he's doing > fairly simple stuff, a bit like sound "painting" with a basic > graphics package. - - -snip - - - Hi: To me, that sort of makes the point, quite dramatically. In Blender, there are skills that are learned, which carry over from the very young to the most sophisticated user. These are tools, and it's difficult to categorize them as NOT educational. hmmm. it's all tough to figure for me. Rots 'a Ruck, there, Doug. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 13:42:54 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: [OS:N:] MS targeting schools for software audits... In-Reply-To: <20020422182816.73C12146936@moria.seul.org> References: <20020422182816.73C12146936@moria.seul.org> Message-ID: <02042211425402.17431@aether> Hi: Noble, and most true, but what at what cost to the students? It could take millions, will take millions out of the school systems, just in administrative costs for the audits. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org On Monday 22 April 2002 11:28, Janina Sajka wrote: > More power to Microsoft. Let them audit and submit their huge > invoices. Perhaps the schools will > then begin to understand that there is substance and > value in FREE software--that our arguments are not just theory. > > Ready, aim, fire ..... > > > > Ouch! That was my foot!! > > On 22 Apr 2002, Paul Nelson wrote: > > The 24 largest school districts in Oregon and Washington are being > > > > audited my the Microsoft marketing department for license > > compliance. > > > Along with the letter from MS came an invitation to lease software > > from > > > MS as part of a school agreement that requires MS licenses for > > every > > > Pentium and PPC computer, even those running Linux or Mac OS. > > > > Steve Duin, a writer for the Oregonian has a column at: > > http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf?/xml/story.ss >f/html_standard.xsl?/base/all_wire_stories/101386428029222529.xml > > > If that url is too long try this one: > > http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/ > > > > Portland Public Schools, after a successful test of K12LTSP in one > > > > middle school, is installing K12LTSP in 10 more labs this week. > > They > > > have plans for 100 more next year. > > > > To give you an idea of the scale of the problem facing a large > > district > > > like PPS, they have 25,000 PCs. A MS school agreement lease of > > software > > > could cost the district over $1,000,000 a year. Just buying a > > virus > > > package would cost $250,000 a year. > > > > Use of K12LTSP and other open source, free software is a viable > > alternative. Schools are starting to figure this out. > > > > Quoting Steve Duin and Scott Robinson, CIO of PPS in the article > > above, > > > "... Thus, it's not surprising that several schools are asking, > > along > > > with Robinson in Portland, "whether we want to continue with the > > Microsoft platform." > > ..." > > > > If there ever was a time when using Linux on desktops in schools > > and > > > public agencies makes sense, it's NOW when MS is shooting itself > > in the > > > foot with predatory pricing practices. > > > > What can you do? > > > > DOWNLOAD a free copy of K12LTSP, get together with your local > > Linux User > > > Group and plan a demonstration for your local schools. > > http://k12ltsp.org/download.html > > > > TALK with your local government and school leaders and let them > > know > > > that you expect fiscal responsibility when it comes to buying > > software. > > > Review their purchasing guidelines to see if open source solutions > > are > > > given priority over proprietary solutions. > > > > DEMONSTRATE - Offer open houses for schools and government > > agencies to > > > showcase open source success. If we all did this on the same day > > all > > > over the country we could make a bigger splash. We released > > K12LTSP 1.0 > > > on July 4th last year and had a standing room only open house. > > > > We have better software because it comes from a more effective and > > more > > > responsive development model. Users are encouraged to collaborate > > and > > > improve the code. This represents a paradigm shift that may be > > hard to > > > understand for many. We have to demonstrate success stories and > > let > > > folks know that the open source revolution is not a fluke. It's > > just a > > > better way of producing the software we all use every day. > > > > ;-) Paul > > K12LTSP.org > > -- > > Janina Sajka, Director > Technology Research and Development > Governmental Relations Group > American Foundation for the Blind > (AFB) > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > http://www.openebook.org From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 15:05:46 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] MS targeting schools for software audits... In-Reply-To: <02042212052607.30324@tiger3> References: <1019499060.29737.72.camel@beast> <02042212052607.30324@tiger3> Message-ID: <02042213054600.17769@aether> On Monday 22 April 2002 12:05, paul melo wrote: - - -snip - - - > "......even those running Linux or Mac OS." > > Could someone explain this part to me? > How could they say MS licenses be "required" if running Linux? > Appears to be absurd. > > > thanks, > paul Hi: It is absurd, and one response would be to toss all computers out the door. There would be little problem replacing each and every one with another, Open Source, of course. There are so many ways to support linux based networks, and plenty of linux users' groups that stand ready to assist. All it would take is one or two enterprising school administrators to pull it off. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 16:11:44 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] MS targeting schools for software audits... In-Reply-To: <3CC478BF.20804@inch.com> References: <1019499060.29737.72.camel@beast> <02042213054600.17769@aether> <3CC478BF.20804@inch.com> Message-ID: <02042214114400.18028@aether> On Monday 22 April 2002 13:55, William Abernathy wrote: - - -snip - - - > I used to live in Portland. I remember a time when the "Church" of > Scientology was being sued in federal court there, and Scientologists > swarmed the place, thousands of them, so many that they were literally > camping out on the rooftops of the Scientology buildings. I think our cult > operating system should do something similar. > > This morning I called the CTO's office in Portland, and volunteered to head > up there and help out. It's 650 miles from here on my motorbike, but if > they want to install free software, I'll make the trip. There are 25,000 > machines in that district. How many fanatical volunteers can we put on the > ground in Portland? How many of you are willing to go there for a week or > two and help with the conversion? If we can mobilize 1000 volunteers from > across the country, the job would be done in a couple of weeks! > > I think we can pull off a miracle here. I think one school district should > draw a line in the sand and tell Microsoft to go pound it. And if their > conversion is a success, it will live on as a testament to democratic > power, and as a wonderful test-bed for further educational free software > development. > > --William Hi, William and others: OK. William, get on your motorbike and head up there. When you get there, get a quick fix on what the majority of computers are. If we can "standardize" a big group, we then make one of the same, here, and burn an image. Get the CD to you, and away you go. Think hours, rather than weeks! The CTO can move the data to a data server set up for the task. Keep us posted. There's thousands, and the solution requires hands on, but also there's remote support across the nation, don't forget. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 16:19:35 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] MS targeting schools for software audits... In-Reply-To: <20020422204612.UOAN14788.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@[10.137.100.61]> References: <20020422204612.UOAN14788.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@[10.137.100.61]> Message-ID: <02042214193501.18028@aether> On Monday 22 April 2002 13:46, Christopher Hill wrote: - - -snip - - - > In the case of the school that I work for, 99% of computers run Microsoft > software anyway. In that situation, the School Agreement makes a lot of > sense because it means you can use any version of Windows, Office, Works or > Visual Studio, along with Encarta, and includes Client Access Licenses for > most MS servers, for all of your computers, at a far reduced price (in the > UK we've been quoted ?40 per computer per annum). - - -snip - - - Forty Pounds British for licensing? How much for upgrades? Do you think M$ intends for any of those computers to be backward compatible from one upgrade to the next? Do you think M$ intends to move every one of those computers to distributed software setups when it's ready? Too many questions, and all of them spell DOOOOO MMMMMMM! It gets even worse, when you consider that Open Source competes directly at this point with M$ for quality and reliability, without the cost. People are perpetuating an impression of linux that doesn't fit anymore. Too bad. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 17:28:58 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Fwd: [seul-edu] Extremadura to use linux at schools. Message-ID: <02042215285800.18334@aether> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [seul-edu] Extremadura to use linux at schools. Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:02:01 -0700 From: Paul Bauer To: seul-edu@seul.org Considering the thread on this mailing list today, I thought I would post this here. http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,51994,00.html Extremadura Measures: Linux By Julia Scheeres 3:06 p.m. April 19, 2002 PDT The poorest region of Spain has adopted Linux as the official operating system of public schools and offices, in hopes of improving the area's vast technological and economic lag. The move by the Autonomous Community of Extremadura, a rural zone that borders Portugal, will mark the first time a European public school system has switched to open source, said Luis Mill?n V?zquez de Miguel, the community's minister of education, science and technology. The government has burned 80,000 CDs with the Debian Linux operating system and software ranging from text editors to an Internet browser. The disks will be sent to the area's 670 schools and distributed to the public through newspaper inserts. ######################################### #Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? #Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? #BSD: Are you guys coming or what? ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 17:37:29 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] MS targeting schools for software audits... In-Reply-To: <3CC48EF1.70604@hometech.org> References: <1019499060.29737.72.camel@beast> <02042214114400.18028@aether> <3CC48EF1.70604@hometech.org> Message-ID: <02042215372901.18334@aether> Hi, Jim: OK. Take a look: From: http://www.linux.org/groups/usa/california.html Chico State Linux User's Group (CSLUG) http://www.csuchico.edu/cslug/ officers@cslug.ecst.csuchico.edu Contact them and see if they want to take you on. A donation to their group is a whole lot less expensive, and the interest and enthusiasm is a whole lot higher, maybe? If you don't have luck with any of the users' groups you contact, let me know. We'll set up from here, but Chico should be first choice for you. thanks, Tom On Monday 22 April 2002 15:30, Jim Aird wrote: > but also there's remote support across the nation, don't forget. > > > Tom, > > Can you enlighten me a bit, please? How does a school with budding > Linux use get into the remote support network? Currently I (HomeTech > Charter School, Paradise, CA) am paying a linux firm a annual service > agreement and per hour above that to keep our Linux server running and > to add services. Is this what you mean by remote support, or are there > coders and such that will volunteer maintenance and set up to schools? > > Jim Aird > HomeTech Charter School > > > Thanks, > > Tom Poe > > Reno, NV > > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 21:18:00 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: enterprise/school/government-wide agreements In-Reply-To: <200204231008.30554.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <1019499060.29737.72.camel@beast> <200204231008.30554.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <02042219180000.19226@aether> Hi, Leon and others: You've got me curious, now. I think it's time I found out what "killer app" level stuff that is on M$, that the Open Source community doesn't have. Does anyone want to volunteer a few of them for me? I'm not in education, per se, so don't really know what to expect along these lines. Would sure appreciate a quick, six or seven fundamental apps to look at, and maybe get a feel for how wide the "Open Source Education Divide" really is with MS. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Monday 22 April 2002 19:08, Leon Brooks wrote: > On Tuesday 23 April 2002 02:43, Dan Kolb wrote: > > On Monday 22 Apr 2002 19:11 pm, Paul Nelson wrote: > >> The 24 largest school districts in Oregon and Washington are being > >> audited my the Microsoft marketing department for license compliance. > >> Along with the letter from MS came an invitation to lease software from > >> MS as part of a school agreement that requires MS licenses for every > >> Pentium and PPC computer, even those running Linux or Mac OS. > > > > Who signs such agreements? Surely you should only pay for the number of > > MS licences you use/have? If a company had, say, 200 computers all > > running Linux (no MS software), and Microsoft decided to audit them, > > there's absolutely nothing they could do about said company not paying > > them any money for software. > > The deal works like this: Method A is that you can pay $200 a machine for > XP, for each of your thousand machines, or Method B is that you can pay $30 > per machine per year, regardless of what it runs. Cost of Method A: > $200,000.00; cost of Method B: $30,000.00 a year. Well and good, your > organisation saves $80,000.00 presuming an OS turnover every 4 years, and > spreads a $200k lump sum out over 4 years. > > Comes this petitioner from the Open Source movement, hawking software which > may not be completely compatible with everything else, definitely doesn't > run a lot of the educational apps we're used to, and doesn't save us a cent > until we replace more than half of the machines in the school. Appealing? > > Proprietary alternatives have an even harder row to hoe. This is *eactly* > the sort of arrangement that Microsoft were *convicted* for monopoly in > court on (over OEM deals), and they're still doing it! But `we're not a > monopoly, just misunderstood'. )-: > > Visit your congressman. > > Cheers; Leon From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 21:25:51 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Thank you for posting your message to GKD for all to read Message-ID: <02042219255101.19226@aether> Hello, Sr. Frederick Noronha: Thanks to all of you in Saligao, and keep up the good work. Do you want a low-cost recording studio, or do you want to wait? If so, maybe there's funding for you. Please visit our web site and let us know. It will take time, but let's think about starting. Respectfully, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 22 21:44:44 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: egovernance - are you watching the developing countries ? Message-ID: <02042219444402.19226@aether> Hi: We've had a taste of egovernance in the United States, recently, although there's been no real implementation, yet. Several legislative proposals have been submitted, and various groups, agencies, and departments have set up comment periods for the general public to offer their response. In every case that I attempted to participate, there were problems. The servers would not accept the email, as the address was an "unknown user", the email boxes would be full and not accept emails, the fax phone numbers would be listed wrong, not available, etc. In other words, the egovernance system is subject to as much abuse, if not more, by the government agencies than even the telephone. This is anecdotal, and of little consequence, but I think it would be wise to consider during your discussions on the risks and rewards of egovernance. Respectfully, Tom Poe http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 23 17:24:56 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Fwd: [DMCA_Discuss] Salon Article: Music and Copyright Message-ID: <02042315245601.23448@aether> Hi: In case this didn't pop up on one of your other mail lists Thanks, tom ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Salon Article: Music and Copyright Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:52:48 -0500 From: "James S. Huggins \(DMCA Discuss\)" To: 23.Apr.2002 http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/04/23/copyright/print.html James S. Huggins .... _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_Discuss mailing list DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 23 22:43:37 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Fanatical volunteers In-Reply-To: <01c1eb3d$31bd3360$14591e89@prentda> References: <01c1eb3d$31bd3360$14591e89@prentda> Message-ID: <02042320433701.24664@aether> Hi: Dave, the head of networking for your city's school district needs a demo to play with. Contact: conradus@iname.com http://nolug.dhs.org Tell him about the head of networking contact, and see if they can round up a two or three computer demo for him to play with. By working with the local linux users' group, he'll find out just how much talent and enthusiasm there is to "get the show on the road". Remember, he can run parallel setups across without disrupting the present situation if he wants. If for some reason, the reception is lukewarm, let me know, and we'll coordinate something really good. If they say that it's a good idea, the folks on this list are sure to recommend some software and apps that might be interesting. Keep us posted! Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 23 April 2002 20:07, Dave Prentice wrote: > Here's one bright note, guys: I have been corresponding with the head of > networking for my city's school district concerning the MS audits. He is > getting disgusted with them and says he is now beginning to entertain the > possibility to migrate to Linux because of MS's licensing prices. So let's > keep that army of 1,000 fanatical volunteers on standby -- maybe someday > all of y'all can come do your thing here in New Orleans! (The free/open > source thing, not whatever else you may associate with my fair city.) > Dave Prentice > prentice@instruction.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leon Brooks > To: seul-edu@seul.org > Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:22 PM > Subject: [seul-edu] Fanatical volunteers > > >On Wednesday 24 April 2002 02:41, paul Sutton wrote: > >>> How many fanatical volunteers can we > >>> put on the ground in Portland? How many of you are willing to go there > >>> for a week or two and help with the conversion? If we can mobilize 1000 > >>> volunteers from across the country, the job would be done in a couple > >>> of weeks! > >>> > >>> I think we can pull off a miracle here. I think one school district > >>> should draw a line in the sand and tell Microsoft to go pound it. And > >>> if their conversion is a success, it will live on as a testament to > >>> democratic power, and as a wonderful test-bed for further educational > >>> free software development. > >>> > >>> --William > >> > >> I'd love to help but I am from England, and funds don't permit, but best > > of > > >> luck, perhaps something similar could happen in the UK, if any other > >> Uk subscribers are interested. > > > >Ditto for Oz. > > > >If corporations can offer `fanatical' support, so can we. The kernel of > > such a > > >team is being thrown together here in WA, our first target being to do as > >much undermining as possible of the WA EdDept's blanket Microsoft > > Enterprise > > >Agreement. > > > >Cheers; Leon (from Perth, Western Australia) From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 10:59:57 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: MS targeting schools for software audits... In-Reply-To: <1019659998.16201.8.camel@sneezy.wpg.slmsoft.com> References: <02042212052607.30324@tiger3> <20020424102805.GV2044@lic145.kiev.ua> <1019659998.16201.8.camel@sneezy.wpg.slmsoft.com> Message-ID: <02042408595701.27348@aether> On Wednesday 24 April 2002 07:53, Sydney Weidman wrote: - - -snip - - - > Here is a direct quote from the Microsoft School Agreement 3.0: > > > > Counting Eligible PCs > > School Agreement requires an institution-wide commitment. To that end, > you must include all of the eligible PCs in the participating school(s) > or district. Elibible PCs include all of the Pentium machines, Power > Macs, iMacs or better. You must also include any number of 486 machines > or below and any Apple, UNIX, or Windows Terminals on which any of the > software will be run. > > For example, a school with 500 Pentiums, 200 iMacs, 200 386 machines and > 200 Windows Terminals must include all 700 of their Pentiums and iMacs. > They must then add the older machines on which they will run the School > Agreement software. If they choose to include 100 of their 386 machies > and 50 of their Windows Terminals, they would calculate the total number > of eligible PCs as follows: > > 700 Pentiums and iMacs + 150 (386 and Windows Terminal machines) = 850 > Eligible PCs. > > > > Just for accuracy in reporting. Hi: Did we already do the rant thing about M$ having records at their end, and registration should be recorded for much of the software, when it was purchased? What seems to be the Standard Operating Procedure [SOP], is that if the purchaser doesn't produce proper documentation at their end, they pay. M$ does not cough up their records to compare. In other words, we have a company engaged in something other than an "audit" per se, IMHO. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 11:13:52 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: M$ Audits (long) [was Re: MS targeting...] In-Reply-To: <20020424110401.GY2044@lic145.kiev.ua> References: <02Apr23.144607bst.119041@harry.trinity.manchester.sch.uk> <20020424110401.GY2044@lic145.kiev.ua> Message-ID: <02042409135202.27348@aether> On Wednesday 24 April 2002 04:04, Michael Shigorin wrote: - - -snip - - - > > Yes -- and here goes one more thing. > > Due to portability of large quantity of core applications that > can -- and "must" -- be used (and "compatible") in education, we > can demonstrate the software in win32 versions. > > Go burn CD with win32 OpenOffice, Mozilla, GIMP, MySQL -- well, > LiteSTEP, TuxRacer and Solfege :-) -- and show it to the people > who *have* to decide which way to go. We're after commercial > firms with this here and now. - - -snip - - - Hi: This sounds like a possible "model". Can you take a few minutes and elaborate for an audience that might want to see a spec sheet, and maybe some instructions on how to set it up? We could build a HOWTO from that, and pretty soon, we'd have a nice setup that everyone could build from. Another idea would be the K12LTSP project: http://dot.kde.org/1015251670/ This might be a good starting "model" that could be evaluated and coordinated? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 11:17:05 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Adding apps to the Application Index (was: Re: [school-discuss] SoundTracker) In-Reply-To: <3CC69F38.51344B66@suscom.net> References: <1019431621.3cc34ac5373cf@anchor.net.au> <20020424094446.GS2044@lic145.kiev.ua> <3CC69F38.51344B66@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042409170503.27348@aether> On Wednesday 24 April 2002 05:04, Doug Loss wrote: > Unfortunately, SAL hasn't been updated since May 18 of last year. I keep > hoping, but I'm afraid it's dead. I check it every day or so for new > content. Hi: Thanks for pointing that out. Will check to see if there's other sites that might be useful. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 11:18:59 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: [seul-edu] Portland schools and Linux Message-ID: <02042409185904.27348@aether> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [seul-edu] Portland schools and Linux Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:50:23 -0700 From: "Chris Calise" To: Hi Laurel, I am a coordinator of a program in Eugene, Or to promote K-12LTSP here in Lane county. We already have a request from a middle school and a library. The director of the local STRUT program advised me that any donation they make can only be used for K->12 schools, but we have some other libraries and non-profits that are interested in having a network. Can your group help with workstation/servers? Do you have a Eugene local group? It is exciting to see what Oregon is doing with open source. I would love to see a state wide initiative to require schools and government to consider open source first before buying proprietary software. Anyway please let me know if you can help. Thanks, Chris Calise www.ufda.net chris@oip.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "laurel" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:39 AM Subject: [seul-edu] Portland schools and Linux > > Depending on how things are set up, you should be able to greatly > > > > simplify things by focusing on application servers and then just > > installing scads of dumb terminal-ish boxen, like "The City of > > Progress" > > > (forget the name, it's in FL) did. > > Hi, > I've yet to introduce myself on this list. I'm not involved directly > in the schools, but i'm the Education Coordinator at FREE GEEK > (www.freegeek.org), a Portland, Oregon non-profit that rebuilds old > computers and gives them out to our volunteers - with Free software, > of course. Our main goals are to keep old equipment out of the > landfills, to get computers (and access to information) to people > who couldn't otherwise afford it, and to support Free software. > > One of our volunteers (Vagrant) has been working on his own > terminal/server project, which he calls Lessdisks > (lessdisks.sourceforge.net has more information but he bashfully > says it's "nothin pretty" and a bit out of date). It's designed to > make workable computer labs with low-end computers as the terminals, > so otherwise obsolete hardware can continue to have useful life. > He's worked with the Abernathy/Environmental Middle School in our > neighborhood and with the kids there has built and installed a > lessdisks network there. It hasn't replaced what they already had, > from what i understand, but the works are in motion. > > We want to help get GNU/Linux in the schools. While FREE GEEK is not > capable of taking on this project, we are in contact with MANY local > Free Software aficionados and activists, as well as with other > organizations, like StRUT (Students Recycling Used Technology, > strut.org), some schools, local government, and our local LUG. > Vagrant is very fired up about getting this to work. > > >>Keep us posted. There's thousands, and the solution requires > > hands > > >>on, but also there's remote support across the nation, don't > > forget. > > This project will require a lot of support and re-education. While > remote support is great, they'll want to be able to get in touch > with someone within hours (sooner if possible). People (teachers > and administrators) that are not all that technically-inclined will > need to be able to find help. This will be one of the major hurdles > in this proposal, i promise. Using a widely-distributed remote > support network is an awesome idea, will it be feasible for > something of this scale (even the schools of one city could generate > more questions, misunderstandings, and actual problems than a fish > has scales). > > Anyhow, count FREE GEEK in for this project. We want this to > happen. And hi, folks. If you're ever in Portland, stop by! Our > education program is mainly directed toward adults with little to no > computer computer experience, not kids-in-schools-education, but we > occasionally have school groups come in to learn about recycling, > computer hardware & basic concepts, and (of course) a bit of Linux > on the side. > > Best > Laurel Hoyt > Education Coordinator > FREE GEEK ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 11:31:55 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: Unified Front... [was Re: [seul-edu] M$ Audits (shortened)] In-Reply-To: <3CC6D35F.487A33A6@suscom.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020423070828.00ac9b60@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020424093723.09ac9eb0@pop3.daukas.com> <3CC6D35F.487A33A6@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042409315505.27348@aether> On Wednesday 24 April 2002 08:46, Doug Loss wrote: > "Stephen C. Daukas" wrote: > > Imagine a School Board meeting considering the motion of "going > > Linux". Hi: Is this a "first step" consideration, i.e., raise the motion of investigating at a School Board Meeting? Or, is there an earlier process that leads to this step? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 11:54:41 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: studioforrecording.org missing in action? Message-ID: <02042409544100.27609@aether> Hi, Don: What's the status of studioforrecording.org on your site? I don't see it listed in recent additions, or on the list of music collection? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 12:22:51 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:09 2004 Subject: studioforrecording.org missing in action? In-Reply-To: <02042409544100.27609@aether> References: <02042409544100.27609@aether> Message-ID: <02042410225100.27725@aether> Hi, Don: Just reread, and it's in the recent additions section. Sorry about that. I'll pay attention, better, next time. thanks, Tom On Wednesday 24 April 2002 09:54, tom poe wrote: > Hi, Don: What's the status of studioforrecording.org on your site? I > don't see it listed in recent additions, or on the list of music > collection? Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 14:40:11 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Unified Front... [was Re: [seul-edu] M$ Audits (shortened)] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424141039.09ae4df8@pop3.daukas.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020423070828.00ac9b60@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020424093723.09ac9eb0@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020424141039.09ae4df8@pop3.daukas.com> Message-ID: <02042412401101.28281@aether> On Wednesday 24 April 2002 12:04, Stephen C. Daukas wrote: - - -snip - - - > This is what I mean by a "packaged" solution - an identified list that > satisfies the above goals. If we could do that, then we would be in a much > better position to support (via grass roots efforts) a district willing to > blaze the trail. > > > The school district needs > >to do a reasoned analysis before deciding to undertake such a large-scale > >conversion. > > But if there were such a "packaged" offering, it would make their lives a > hell of a lot easier! - - - snip - - - Hi: This exchange was most interesting. Steve and so many others need a "model". http://dot.kde.org/1015251670/ describes the one chosen by and used with Melbourne, Florida's switch to linux. Do we have a consensus that possibly something close to this, say, in a two or three computer "Demo" setup that I, or anyone could haul over to a school, set on the table, and say, evaluate the potential of this as a network solution? Now, we would have something that every LUG could put together, and pass around to organizations and schools to try out. If we build such a "Demo", then people know what to ask for, when they read something like "SEUL.ORG recommends a school network solution starting with this whatever setup". Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 18:18:40 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Fwd: [seul-edu] Re: Fanatical Volunteers Message-ID: <02042416184000.29023@aether> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Fanatical Volunteers Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:28:25 -0700 From: Wayne Lang To: seul-edu@seul.org I?m new to Linux and to schoolforge but a long time computer-using educator in a midwest US high school. My present duties include on-site teacher training and technical support for a large number of Win and Mac systems. Our LAN includes a Linux web and mail server and a Win2000 file server. This year our state purchased thousands of Wintel computers for the schools; all without any application software. Star Office saved us. Teachers and students are gradually realizing that MS Office is NOT the only software option. Moving to Linux on the desktop sounds interesting but The Fanatical Volunteers will have to SHOW that it can be done. The average classroom teacher probably won?t be comparing OS options; they just want a machine that works. Yes, burn that standard installation CD. Yes, continue the assistance via LUG. BUT, a little "show-and-tell" would be most helpful .most educators are not hard-core computer techies. If they saw Linux in action, things could happen. How about a video that compares school computers side by side? Show one running mainstream apps on Win or Mac; another one running common apps on Linux desktop. Explain the issues of licensing and support. Explain Open Source. Describe the process of installing. Burn the video clips on CD; maybe in Quicktime and distribute the CD to schools. A compelling story could gain thousands of "converts" in a short time and could save the LUG some energy to solve the technical problems that will come later. Wayne ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 20:29:09 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Mark your calendars - April 22, 2002 Message-ID: <02042418290902.29415@aether> Hi: Charter for Studio For Recording, Inc. is official. Next step of 501(c)(3) application coming up. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed Apr 24 22:13:38 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Sounds like Corruption Just Loves The UK . . . . Message-ID: <3CC77462.5070804@renonevada.net> Hi: Your article on M$ e-government is very nicely done. Quietly, without asking the obvious question, "Where was the competition?". Exploring this topic might be most interesting. I suspect the same is happening here in the U.S., but nothing forthcoming as of yet, that I've seen. Have you? http://213.40.196.64/content/4/25003.html thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 12:23:06 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools In-Reply-To: <20020425091852.Q581-100000@stalker.amigo.net> References: <20020425091852.Q581-100000@stalker.amigo.net> Message-ID: <02042510230604.00412@aether> On Thursday 25 April 2002 08:43, Randy Smith wrote: > My biggest problem is that some of the schools in the area are so poor > that they are completely funded by grants (including a few Gates > Foundation Grants). That pulls most of the teeth out of the "cost of > ownership" arguments. Hi: Don't you think the grant funded schools need to be reallocating scarce resources in some direction other than M$? When you look at the terms of a Gates Foundation Grant, you will find exhorbitant costs involved, in terms of administrative reporting, requirements, staffing, etc. It's pure poison. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 12:24:07 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools Message-ID: <02042510240705.00412@aether> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools Date: 25 Apr 2002 18:39:25 +0200 From: Bruno Coudoin To: schoolforge-discuss@schoolforge.net > Someone here asked what applications are keeping us from switching > desktops. For me the answer is: > 1) Accelerated Reader > 2) KidPix > 3) Lots of 'edutainment' stuff, particularly those from Davidson, > Sunburst, Knowledge Adventure (JumpStart), and (like it or not) > Microsoft (Magic School Bus). Why don't you take the problem the other way, the educational system is/should be looking for feature, not product. This said, we should find out what is missing on Linux to fill the gap and then code it. --- Bruno Coudoin GCOMPRIS - http://ofset.sourceforge.net/gcompris ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 13:27:48 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... In-Reply-To: <20020425174919.GB1140@digikata.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020425083617.09b17ea8@pop3.daukas.com> <02042509362800.00412@aether> <20020425174919.GB1140@digikata.com> Message-ID: <02042511274800.00916@aether> On Thursday 25 April 2002 10:49, Alan Chen wrote: - - -snip - - - > I don't mean to discourage you, but the reality is that school > organizations require commercial support. Even if the software is free, > schools expect to have someone on a support contract who is required > to help fix any problems encounted. Hi: Oh, OK. One contract coming up. $1 per year, or donation of an amount school chooses, and a pair of eyes to take responsibility. This could be a nonprofit organization dedicated to fulfilling the "business requirements". Other than that, I suspect nothing would change, in the "model". What do you think? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 13:38:34 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020425134435.09b334d0@pop3.daukas.com> References: <02042509362800.00412@aether> <5.1.0.14.2.20020425134435.09b334d0@pop3.daukas.com> Message-ID: <02042511383401.00916@aether> On Thursday 25 April 2002 11:06, Stephen C. Daukas wrote: - - -snip - - - > I have to agree with Alan and Michael. While I think a simple, > self-contained educational ISO is a great place to start (and we still > haven't defined that content yet), I believe you must eventually make "the > whole Linux thing" easy to deploy and run to win the hearts and minds of > everyone in education. > > However, we do need a stake in the ground if we are to make any > progress. I think a simple offering that can be dropped onto an existing > distro is something than can be done without too much heavy lifting... It > sounds like there is stuff in the pipe (according previous posts), which > needs a little attention, that could be put into an ISO. This could be > distributed in a similar way to Red Hat's once-upon-a-time Power Tools CD, > and we might get a lot of other contrib if we put the word out. We might > even get a lot of help with initial deployment from those groups mentioned > by Tom that could help get us to the next step. I would still hope that a > vendor would pick-up on the ISO and run with it... > > Once we know what we need for education (i.e., once the ISO's content is > defined), we can move on from there! > > Steve Hi: I have set the "try to get informational interviews" thingy aside [as an outsider, my requests, I am sad to report, have gone unanswered from school principals - must have been a bad idea], and am now working with two fellows that understand the tech end, to put a "starting block" demo in place. We have a server and one, maybe two x-terminals as our starting point. We are thinking, today, about whether the server will be Debian, or Slackware. Any consensus out there, yet? The hesitation I have about the RH approach, is that I have the feeling that their "support" package is significantly higher than we might arrange for, with some other distributions? In other words, I think there was talk at some point, that the networks would somehow be tied directly to RH "in house". Much along the lines of an ASP setup. Anyone know, what the situation is at this time? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 15:28:23 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: ISO (was Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front...) In-Reply-To: <3CC85360.BFB1B03F@suscom.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424093723.09ac9eb0@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020425083617.09b17ea8@pop3.daukas.com> <3CC85360.BFB1B03F@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042513282301.01204@aether> Hi: A Plan To End All Plans, I say! Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 25 April 2002 12:05, Doug Loss wrote: > "Stephen C. Daukas" wrote: > > I think the way to go is to craft an ISO that doesn't actually care which > > Linux you have. I believe the LSB is the standard to follow, because it > > allows binary distributions of software to run on any Linux system of a > > given architecture, regardless of which distro is being used. (I think > > we should include source, where possible, as well.) > > This is an important point. This ISO needs to be non-distro-specific. We > need to make RPMs _and_ DEBs. If that's too complex, we need to use an > installer that will bridge the gap. I know there are some apps that will > install RPMs on Debian systems and some that will put DEBs on other > distros; we could consider one or another of those. > > Since there is a standard to follow (LSB) that's what we should do. And of > course we need to include source! You never know when someone will want to > actually _use_ the power of free software! > > > Then, and of course some will tell me I'm optimistic, you make an effort > > to get vendors interested in it. Let them run with an "educational > > bundle" and worry about all the business issues. > > If we can actually do this I know they'll be interested. Mandrake has > already shown an interest in this, although they didn't have the resources > to help us develop it. SuSE has donated large amounts of boxed sets to US > high schools. I'm sure there are others. > > > OK, I'm going to ask a simple question. If we provided a ISO of the top > > N educational apps, HOW-TOs, documentation, war stories, got permission > > to distribute Star/Open Office, perhaps more, whatever (what I referred > > to once as a package), would that be enough to get a district excited and > > successful, or must we also include a Linux distro? > > As someone else said, you make it non-distro-specific, available for > download from the net, and promote it to all the distros as something they > can use to roll an education "solution" (I hate the market-speak corruption > of the word "solution"). > > > Only having briefly looked over some of the info I've learned about > > recently, would our ISO be suitable to bundle with the terminal server > > effort, or others out there? > > That's up to them, but I think the answer is "yes." > > OK. How to proceed? First, let's look through the entries in the > Educational Applications Index and identify > candidates for inclusion in the ISO. Not all the apps listed there are > ready for deployment, and some just aren't appropriate for school use (it > says "Educational," not "Scholastic"). Also, some of the categories we > setup have become overly broad and should be separated into more, smaller > ones. > > Once we've identified candidate apps, people have to install and test them. > This is where a fair amount of effort is involved. This is something that > is best done by teachers or people who can have teachers test it for them. > We want to find out what would actually be useful in school, not what looks > like a good idea to us but that teachers wouldn't use. After these tests > we should have a list of available, useful apps. > > Then we need to package the apps. There's a fair amound of effort involved > here, too, but this can probably be done by fewer, dedicated people than > the previous task. > > After that we need to come up with an installer. If the packages are > included with standard distros it should be up to the distro manufacturers > to add hooks to their various installers to add our stuff; but if someone > is downloading our ISO we should have some easy to use installer as an > integral part of it. Matt Jezorek, what are you using with Blue Linux? > > Finally, we need to construct the ISO. That should be fairly easy, I > think. After that, we need to put it up for download, try to get > CheapBytes to carry it, and advocate it to all the distro people. > > How's that for a plan? > > -- > Doug Loss All I want is a warm bed > Data Network Coordinator and a kind word and > Bloomsburg University unlimited power. > dloss@bloomu.edu Ashleigh Brilliant From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 15:44:40 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020425144538.09aede78@pop3.daukas.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020425134435.09b334d0@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020425144538.09aede78@pop3.daukas.com> Message-ID: <02042513444002.01204@aether> The Red Hat's alternative proposal includes the following: Microsoft redirects the value of their proposed software donation to the purchase of additional hardware for the school districts. This would increase the number of computers available under the original proposal from 200,000 to more than one million, and would increase the number of systems per school from approximately 14 to at least 70. Red Hat, Inc. will provide free of charge the open-source Red Hat Linux operating system, office applications and associated capabilities to any school system in the United States. Red Hat will provide online support for the software through the Red Hat Network. Unlike the Microsoft proposal, which has a five-year time limit at which point schools would have to pay Microsoft to renew their licenses and upgrade the software, the Red Hat proposal has no time limit. Red Hat will provide software upgrades through the Red Hat Network online distribution channel. Hi: It's the phrase, "- - -through Red Hat Network online distribution channel" that makes me wonder if there are hidden costs to schools, and what they might end up being? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 25 April 2002 11:51, Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > At 02:38 PM 4/25/2002, Tom wrote: > >On Thursday 25 April 2002 11:06, Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > >- - -snip - - - > > > > > I have to agree with Alan and Michael. While I think a simple, > > > self-contained educational ISO is a great place to start (and we still > > > haven't def > > [snip] > > >Hi: I have set the "try to get informational interviews" thingy aside [as > > an outsider, my requests, I am sad to report, have gone unanswered from > > school principals - must have been a bad idea], and am now working with > > two fellows that understand the tech end, to put a "starting block" demo > > in place. We have a server and one, maybe two x-terminals as our > > starting point. We are thinking, today, about whether the server will be > > Debian, or Slackware. Any consensus out there, yet? The hesitation I > > have about the RH approach, is that I have the feeling that their > > "support" package is significantly higher than we might arrange for, with > > some other distributions? In other words, I think there was talk at some > > point, that the networks would somehow be tied directly to RH "in house". > > Much along the lines of an ASP setup. Anyone know, what the situation > > is at this time? > > I don't think you will ever get consensus on what distro to use... > > What are you talking about regarding "in house networks" and support? > > Steve From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 17:19:29 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... Message-ID: <02042515192900.02029@aether> Hi: And, so said Nicolas. thanks, tom ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:09:12 -0400 From: Nicolas Marchildon To: seul-edu@seul.org tom poe ?crivait/wrote: > We are thinking, today, about whether the server will be Debian, or > Slackware. Any consensus out there, yet? If I had to choose between Slackware and Debian, I would definetely go with Debian, as it's much easier to upgrade. It has considerable importance when you have to manage many computers. I can't live without APT. Slackware's package management is too basic. It's much more difficult than typing "apt-get upgrade". RedHat also has an automated tool for updating the system (called "up2date"), but I found it less reliable, and much slower. APT has obviously been there for a long time. Nicolas ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 18:17:39 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: ISO In-Reply-To: <3CC88A5D.9030503@suscom.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424093723.09ac9eb0@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020425181926.09b64748@pop3.daukas.com> <3CC88A5D.9030503@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042516173900.02255@aether> On Thursday 25 April 2002 15:59, Douglas Loss wrote: - - -snip - - - > Let's do it.If anyone reading this message is interested in helping on > this, speak up. The first thing to do is to get some teachers to look > through the Index and pick the apps that look like good candidates. I > _know_ there are a number of teachers reading this message. Step up! > You don't have to go over the entire list. Just pick your > particular area of expertise and take a good look at the apps in that > category. If some category doesn't get any volunteers, we'll have to > look at parceling those apps out to people willing to look at them. > > This is your chance to influence the course of the Linux in education > movement, folks! Join us! Hi: I'm volunteering. No teaching background, so can only provide support for the apps evaluation team, if cheerleading is needed? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu Apr 25 20:16:51 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: ISO In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020425204720.09b88eb8@pop3.daukas.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424093723.09ac9eb0@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020425181926.09b64748@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020425204720.09b88eb8@pop3.daukas.com> Message-ID: <02042518165100.02725@aether> Hi: Want to use a Blog? A collaborative Blog? I can create a Blog and add names. Each name can sign in and add items. If you want to test one first, I'll add your name[s] to the perl blog, and you can then decide. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 25 April 2002 17:57, Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > At 06:59 PM 4/25/2002, you wrote: > >Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > > > >At 03:05 PM 4/25/2002, Doug wrote: > >>[1] > >> > >>>OK. How to proceed? First, let's look through the entries in the > >>>Educational > >>>Applications Index and identify candidates > >>>for inclusion in the ISO. > >> > >>[big snip] > >>I am most and interested and believe I can get local resources to help > >>with 3, 4 & 5. I would also like to participate with 1 & 2, but being > >>new to teaching, I have less of a network to "work" and can't make > >>promises at this point... > >>Should we try to actually put together a team at this point and see if we > >>can flesh out the plan? > > > >Let's do it.If anyone reading this message is interested in helping on > > this > > [snip] > > Good! > > We should put together a structure for tracking feedback from the > participant teachers, as well as techies, etc., etc. We could use CVS for > this, but I'm not sure what mechanisms we have to play with, who can host > what, etc... A web site is a good thing, as has been suggested, and I have > the resources of a very active LUG, an engineering university, as well as > my exam school for gifted students to draw from... > > I am happy to see what I can do in terms of infrastructure and a technical > staff (so to speak). I do have experience in similar efforts (I used to be > one of the technical directors for OMG, the folks who brought the world > CORBA, etc.. We had 800 member companies that all contributed to technical > conferences and other efforts...). A good friend of mine, who founded the > LUG I'm thinking of, does some Open Source work for Linux now, so I'm sure > he can set-up the necessaries blindfolded. > > I'm heading to Canada tomorrow, so I won't be able to respond further until > Monday. Think of me as a resource for getting this put together! If the > powers that be want to contact me, just shoot me an email and I'll forward > all of my contact info... > > Regards, > Steve From alex at synchcorp.com Thu Apr 25 22:33:30 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... References: <02042509362800.00412@aether> <5.1.0.14.2.20020425134435.09b334d0@pop3.daukas.com> <02042511383401.00916@aether> Message-ID: <3CC8CA8A.A0A0D244@synchcorp.com> Howdy, I think Linux is easier to deploy and manage than Windoze. In my experience (going on 10 years now) with Windoze, the problem isn't Linux's difficulty in installation, deployment or maintenance. The biggest problem with Linux breaking into a new market is everyone's perception of how difficult it is. Sure, Windoze is easy to install on a new PC. The problem is when it hits a new piece of hardware, or finds incompatable code in someone else's product, or something else that is out of the ordinary. Troubleshooting Windoze is where you run into the problems, which most people who make the buying decisions never see. They see "even I can install this on my computer at home." I think we're going to always hit this wall as long as we only focus on "this needs to be easy to install" or "we need an Office compatible suite" or "we need a company that can provide a support contract". We already have all that, the thing we keep missing is everyone's perception. When some giant corporation can steal, appropriate and bully their way to an unreliable, insecure product, and still get people to pay way too much for it, that's got to be nothing more than a perception issue. My mother had to call Microsoft tech support for a problem on her boss' computer and during the call she figured out how to solve the problem before their tech guy could. Wow. Great support. We need to come up with a way to change people's perceptions, that's all. We already have the ease-of-use, beautiful GUIs, security, reliability, hardware support, technical support and cost effectiveness. Any marketing people out there? :) Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > On Thursday 25 April 2002 11:06, Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > - - -snip - - - > > I have to agree with Alan and Michael. While I think a simple, > > self-contained educational ISO is a great place to start (and we still > > haven't defined that content yet), I believe you must eventually make "the > > whole Linux thing" easy to deploy and run to win the hearts and minds of > > everyone in education. > > > > However, we do need a stake in the ground if we are to make any > > progress. I think a simple offering that can be dropped onto an existing > > distro is something than can be done without too much heavy lifting... It > > sounds like there is stuff in the pipe (according previous posts), which > > needs a little attention, that could be put into an ISO. This could be > > distributed in a similar way to Red Hat's once-upon-a-time Power Tools CD, > > and we might get a lot of other contrib if we put the word out. We might > > even get a lot of help with initial deployment from those groups mentioned > > by Tom that could help get us to the next step. I would still hope that a > > vendor would pick-up on the ISO and run with it... > > > > Once we know what we need for education (i.e., once the ISO's content is > > defined), we can move on from there! > > > > Steve > > Hi: I have set the "try to get informational interviews" thingy aside [as an > outsider, my requests, I am sad to report, have gone unanswered from school > principals - must have been a bad idea], and am now working with two fellows > that understand the tech end, to put a "starting block" demo in place. We > have a server and one, maybe two x-terminals as our starting point. We are > thinking, today, about whether the server will be Debian, or Slackware. Any > consensus out there, yet? The hesitation I have about the RH approach, is > that I have the feeling that their "support" package is significantly higher > than we might arrange for, with some other distributions? In other words, I > think there was talk at some point, that the networks would somehow be tied > directly to RH "in house". Much along the lines of an ASP setup. Anyone > know, what the situation is at this time? > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From alex at synchcorp.com Thu Apr 25 23:54:33 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Fwd: Re: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools References: <02042510240705.00412@aether> Message-ID: <3CC8DD89.206A2B2B@synchcorp.com> Hi, I agree. We can't be telling the school system "you should be looking for this, not that". We've been saying that for years, and people aren't going to change. We instead need to say to ourselves "how can we present this so that these people who want product X will feel like they are not going backwards by using product Y?" So many products people use just plain suck, but they use them anyway because they believe the program satisfies their needs. So what is it people like about the product you want to replace, and how does the replacement product answer that need? You won't get as many converts as we want until we can compare apples to apples with the products they believe they need. We won't change their thinking, we need to demonstrate that they are right, but our product still meets their need. Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: Re: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools > Date: 25 Apr 2002 18:39:25 +0200 > From: Bruno Coudoin > To: schoolforge-discuss@schoolforge.net > > > Someone here asked what applications are keeping us from switching > > desktops. For me the answer is: > > 1) Accelerated Reader > > 2) KidPix > > 3) Lots of 'edutainment' stuff, particularly those from Davidson, > > Sunburst, Knowledge Adventure (JumpStart), and (like it or not) > > Microsoft (Magic School Bus). > > Why don't you take the problem the other way, the educational system > is/should be looking for feature, not product. > This said, we should find out what is missing on Linux to fill the gap > and then code it. > > --- > Bruno Coudoin > GCOMPRIS - http://ofset.sourceforge.net/gcompris > > ------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From alex at synchcorp.com Thu Apr 25 23:55:55 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... References: <02042515192900.02029@aether> Message-ID: <3CC8DDDB.5ED694C1@synchcorp.com> I would concur. tom poe wrote: > Hi: And, so said Nicolas. > thanks, > tom > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... > Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:09:12 -0400 > From: Nicolas Marchildon > To: seul-edu@seul.org > > tom poe ?crivait/wrote: > > We are thinking, today, about whether the server will be Debian, or > > Slackware. Any consensus out there, yet? > > If I had to choose between Slackware and Debian, I would definetely go with > Debian, as it's much easier to upgrade. It has considerable importance when > you have to manage many computers. I can't live without APT. > > Slackware's package management is too basic. It's much more difficult than > typing "apt-get upgrade". > > RedHat also has an automated tool for updating the system (called "up2date"), > but I found it less reliable, and much slower. APT has obviously been there > for a long time. > > Nicolas > > ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 00:07:02 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Fwd: Re: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools In-Reply-To: <3CC8DD89.206A2B2B@synchcorp.com> References: <02042510240705.00412@aether> <3CC8DD89.206A2B2B@synchcorp.com> Message-ID: <02042522070202.03673@aether> On Thursday 25 April 2002 21:54, Alex wrote: > Hi, > > I agree. We can't be telling the school system "you should be looking for > this, not that". We've been saying that for years, and people aren't > going to change. We instead need to say to ourselves "how can we present > this so that these people who want product X will feel like they are not > going backwards by using product Y?" Hi: Well, whether it's working with linux long enough to feel somewhat comfortable, or whether linux is "catching up", but I personally think it's because linux is "catching up". There's a myth being perpetuated, and if we take the naysayers through an install of RH, SuSE, Mandrake, they'll just be in awe, I think. So, when the community-based studios get up and running, one of the first things we do, is a video!!! Show Them! Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From alex at synchcorp.com Fri Apr 26 00:48:53 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Fwd: Re: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools References: <02042510240705.00412@aether> <3CC8DD89.206A2B2B@synchcorp.com> <02042522070202.03673@aether> Message-ID: <3CC8EA45.3810C7C@synchcorp.com> Heh, let's do a PowerPoint presentation! :) We'll make it in StarOffice and show it to them on a Windoze box! Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > On Thursday 25 April 2002 21:54, Alex wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I agree. We can't be telling the school system "you should be looking for > > this, not that". We've been saying that for years, and people aren't > > going to change. We instead need to say to ourselves "how can we present > > this so that these people who want product X will feel like they are not > > going backwards by using product Y?" > > Hi: Well, whether it's working with linux long enough to feel somewhat > comfortable, or whether linux is "catching up", but I personally think it's > because linux is "catching up". There's a myth being perpetuated, and if we > take the naysayers through an install of RH, SuSE, Mandrake, they'll just be > in awe, I think. So, when the community-based studios get up and running, > one of the first things we do, is a video!!! Show Them! > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 11:29:13 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: ISO In-Reply-To: <3CC97C5C.2AD8B701@suscom.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424093723.09ac9eb0@pop3.daukas.com> <02042518165100.02725@aether> <3CC97C5C.2AD8B701@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042609291301.06711@aether> Hi: No problem. I'll create one, in a few days, and you check it out. If it comes in handy, for interactive stuff, let me know. thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 26 April 2002 09:12, Doug Loss wrote: > tom poe wrote: > > Hi: Want to use a Blog? A collaborative Blog? I can create a Blog and > > add names. Each name can sign in and add items. If you want to test one > > first, I'll add your name[s] to the perl blog, and you can then decide. > > Let's keep it here for now, Tom. I don't want to have this discussion > fracture into multiple smaller discussions just yet. Once we get things > solidly underway we can do that, OK? > > -- > Doug Loss All I want is a warm bed > Data Network Coordinator and a kind word and > Bloomsburg University unlimited power. > dloss@bloomu.edu Ashleigh Brilliant From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 13:03:05 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] WIPOUT ANNOUNCES CONTEST WINNERS In-Reply-To: <20020426091505.B95612@networkcommand.com> References: <20020426091505.B95612@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <02042611030500.07143@aether> Hi: I hope this gets widespread publicity. I mean, widespread! Required reading for CARP, RIAA, Congress, Disney. Every one of them should be required to respond to each essay. Then, we hang 'em by their toes. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 26 April 2002 09:15, Jon O. wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Alan Story ----- > > Reply-To: > From: "Alan Story" > Subject: WIPOUT ANNOUNCES CONTEST WINNERS > Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:34:43 +0100 > > Press release from WIPOUT contact@wipout.net > > 26 April 2002 www.wipout.net > > WIPOUT ANNOUNCES ITS CONTEST WINNERS > > WIPOUT, the international intellectual property counter-essay contest, > today announces its eleven winners on the day that has been tagged ?World > Intellectual Property Day? by the World Intellectual Property Organisation > (WIPO). > > The winners, selected by an international panel of judges, live in six > countries across the globe and submitted essays in four different > languages: English, French, German, and Spanish. They are named below and > are also available on the WIPOUT web site at: www.wipout.net > > ?The obvious interest in the counter-essay contest and the high quality of > the entries show that a growing number of people are dissenting from WIPO?s > dangerous stance that more and more extensive protection of more and more > forms of intellectual property is a good thing,? the WIPOUT co-chairs > stated today. > > A total of 77 essays were submitted from 18 countries in response to the > question: WHAT DOES INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY MEAN TO YOU IN YOUR DAILY LIFE? > > Earlier in 2001, WIPO, a United Nations organisation, had set up an essay > contest that asked the same question. But WIPOUT organisers decided that a > WIPO-sponsored contest would fail to appreciate the damage that the > over-protection of intellectual property is doing to education, health > care, the environment, and economic security for millions around the globe. > > As Noam Chomsky, one of the more than 50 individuals and groups who > endorsed WIPOUT said, this counter contest reminds people that ?this harsh > regime [of intellectual property rights] is designed to grant multinational > corporations control over the technology of the future it really is a > scandal.? (The complete list of contest endorsers can be found at: > http://www.wipout.net/endorsers.html ). > > All of the 77 essays submitted, including the winning essays, are available > on the WIPOUT site, www.wipout.net .The essays to WIPOUT came from the USA, > UK, Republic of South Africa, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Japan, > Australia, Greece, Russian Federation, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Netherlands, > New Zealand, France, People's Republic of China and Bulgaria. > > Among other issues, the 77 essays reveal: > > - how illiterate persons in South Africa are required to pay copyright > royalty fees if they wish to learn to read and hence don?t get the > opportunity. > - how the conductor of a volunteer church choir in the United States could > not lead his choir in a proper public performance, again because of > copyright restrictions; > - how drug patents are blocking access to desperately needed anti HIV/AIDS > drugs and again, how copyright royalties are charged for anti-HIV health > materials; > - how the TRIPS agreement is turning into a cruel hoax for countries of the > South; > - how IP laws are transforming the Internet into a restrictive, user-pay > experience. > - how the patenting of plants and genes is doing great damages to the > interests of farmers and consumers. > > Among the contributions are poems, drawings, short stories, fictional IP > ?nightmare scenarios? of coming years, calls to action, parodies, > historical explorations, and theoretical critiques of intellectual > property. > > Each of the winners will receive a small financial prize from the WIPOUT > prize fund that was created primarily through a generous donation from the > Center for the Public Domain in the United States. > > ? Our small group of volunteers hardly has the financial or publicity > resources of WIPO, which is housed in palatial head offices beside Lake > Geneva in Switzerland, and so we think it was a good accomplishment to get > 50% of number of essays that WIPO?s contest received.? WIPO is also > announcing its essay contest winners today. > > WIPOUT is an international organisation consisting of academics, artists, > musicians and other activists. Future projects and programmes are now under > discussion. > > The WIPOUT contest started on 4 September 2001 and concluded on 15 March > 2002. > > Today WIPOUT celebrates the winners, but the competitive aspect of the > contest was always secondary to the purpose of giving a platform to the > voices who disagree with the constant expansion of intellectual property > protection. > > > > NAMES OF WIPOUT CONTEST WINNERS, TITLES OF THEIR ESSAYS, AND THEIR LOCATION > (THE NAMES ARE LISTED IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER.) > > > NAMES OF WIPOUT CONTEST WINNERS, TITLES OF THEIR ESSAYS, AND THEIR LOCATION > (THE NAMES ARE LISTED IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER.) > > ENGLISH-LANGUAGE WINNERS > > John Cahir, ON CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE AND POLITICAL ACTION, London, United > Kingdom. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0113cahir.htm > > Jason Holt, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AFFECTS MY LIFE, Provo, Utah, United > States of America. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0216holt.htm > > Eddan Elizafon Katz, MY FIRST SEVEN DAYS ON THE INTERNET, Oakland, > California, United States of America. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/0315katz.htm > > Vijaya Kumar, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS ? AN OBSTACLE TO DEVELOPMENT?, > Dangolia, Kandy, Sri Lanka. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/0314kumar.htm > > Denise Nicholson, DOES COPYRIGHT HAVE ANY SIGNIFANCE IN THE LIVES OF > ILLITERATE OR VISUALLY-IMPAIRED PERSONS?, Johannesburg, South > Africa.http://www.wipout.net/essays/1128nicholson.htm > > Percy Schmeiser, GENETIC CONTAMINATION AND FARMERS? RIGHTS, Bruno, > Saskatchewan, Canada. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0904schmeiser.htm > > Louise Szente, THE CROW AND THE OWL, Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/1112szente.htm > > Philip Tagg, COPYRIGHT VS. THE DEMOCRATIC RIGHT TO KNOW, Liverpool, United > Kingdom. http://www.wipout.net/essays/1112tagg.htm > > > FRENCH-LANGUAGE WINNER > > Alexandre Pirsch, ANTHROPOLOGIE ET DROITS D'AUTEUR: (D)?CRIRE L'AUTRE ET LE > (D?)POSS?DER (ANTHROPOLOGY AND COPYRIGHT: > HOW "WRITING" CAN DEPRIVE THE OTHER OF HIS/HER RIGHTS.) Montreal, Quebec, > Canada. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0315pirsch.htm > > > GERMAN-LANGUAGE WINNER > > Alesch Staehelin, SUCHE NACH BILLIGEN AIDS-MEDIKAMENTEN (THE SEARCH FOR > CHEAP AIDS DRUGS ) Venice, California, United States. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/0310staehelin.htm > > SPANISH-LANGUAGE WINNER > Juan Mateos Garcia, DERECHOS DE PROPIEDAD INTELECTUAL Y ESPACIOS DE > INFORMACI?N P?BLICA (INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE INFORMATION > COMMONS ), Salamanca, Spain. http://www.wipout.net/essays/1012garcia.htm > > > NOTE TO NEWS EDITORS: > > 1. More details of the contest are available on the Wipout website at: > www.wipout.net > > 2. If you would like to arrange an interview or have further questions > about WIPOUT, here are the persons to contact: > > IN THE UNITED KINGDOM - > > Alan Story Dr Lee Marshall > Kent Law School Department of Sociology > University of Kent University College Worcester > Canterbury Henwick Grove > Kent CT2 7NS Worcester WR2 6AJ > 44 (0)1227 823316 44 (0)1905 855312 > a.c.story@ukc.ac.uk l.marshall@worc.ac.uk > > IN THE UNITED STATES : > > Debora Halbert > Associate Professor of Political Science > Otterbein College > Dept. of History and Political Science > Westerville OH 43081 > (614) 823-1559 > DHalbert@otterbein.edu > > IN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND > > Brian Martin > Science, Technology & Society > University of Wollongong, NSW 2522 > Australia > phone +61-2-4221 3763 work, > fax +61-2-4221 3452 > brian_martin@uow.edu.au > > 3. Details of the WIPO contest can be found at: > http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/alert/2001/ma03rev.htm > > > Press release issued by WIPOUT, The Intellectual Property Counter Essay > Contest contact@wipout.net > > > > > > Alan Story > WIPOUT > contact@wipout.net > > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 18:25:24 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] New projects page In-Reply-To: <3CC9DB10.8070100@suscom.net> References: <3CC9DB10.8070100@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042616252400.08361@aether> On Friday 26 April 2002 15:56, Douglas Loss wrote: - - - snip - - - > If we later get > the educational support materials for LUGs project going, we can put a > link to its page there too. Hi: How hard would it be to add the page at this point? I'm thinking a page that would let LUG's post an acknowledgement that they are on board with this project. If the page were there, as the active perl users' group in Reno, we'd sign up. Maybe it could be a simple form that says fill in LUG and email address. Someone could follow up to confirm a personal contact, and they'd be posted to the list. This would tie in well with a momentum builder and marketing strategy, maybe? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From alex at synchcorp.com Fri Apr 26 19:33:34 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Fwd: Re: [school-discuss] How to present Linux to schools References: <02042510240705.00412@aether> <3CC8DD89.206A2B2B@synchcorp.com> <02042522070202.03673@aether> Message-ID: <3CC9F1DE.4AD89F2C@synchcorp.com> I think a video will be a lot better than walking them through an install. Once you make your install choices it's nothing but boredom for half an hour (or more on an older box). Make a video and you can edit out all of the "oops, hit the wrong button" and "look, a progress bar!" stuff. I think, like you said, a video demonstrating how EASY it is to install (without the boring sitting around for the actual processing), plus some cool stuff (looking at Flash-enabled Websites, downloading RealPlayer movies, games and stuff like that), opening Word and Excel docs, plus some screenshots of some Netcraft charts would definitely blow their minds. ALex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > On Thursday 25 April 2002 21:54, Alex wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I agree. We can't be telling the school system "you should be looking for > > this, not that". We've been saying that for years, and people aren't > > going to change. We instead need to say to ourselves "how can we present > > this so that these people who want product X will feel like they are not > > going backwards by using product Y?" > > Hi: Well, whether it's working with linux long enough to feel somewhat > comfortable, or whether linux is "catching up", but I personally think it's > because linux is "catching up". There's a myth being perpetuated, and if we > take the naysayers through an install of RH, SuSE, Mandrake, they'll just be > in awe, I think. So, when the community-based studios get up and running, > one of the first things we do, is a video!!! Show Them! > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 19:38:28 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Enterprise-Level Blog Has Arrived! - - -sort of Message-ID: <02042617382800.08698@aether> Hi: Working under a severe handicap, starting with an extremely poor foundation in computer literacy, and driven by a hosting company that is determined not to let me stop paying for services, contributed to with a new hosting company that is doing its' best to provide as secure an environment as possible, I have managed to get our new version of the PUBDOMAIN BREAD Blog up and displaying. We're not online with this, probably for another week, at least, as I continue the battle to change name servers for the Internet, but take a look: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~studio/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/index.html Now, folks, what this is, is a fully powered, automatic, air-conditioned perl web-based application, capable of remaining state-of-the-art through any new technology that comes along, including voice and video, cell phones, broadband, whatever. That means, we can develop and grow, and move, and never lose our data!!! Life is Good! Once up, you will be able to collaborate, post entries, post papers, post white papers, post manifestos, post photos, images, voice, and video, add comments to other posts, archive on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, to perl's db "backend", full search capabilities, run headlines from multiple sources for up-to-the-day news on issues important to studioforrecording.org, control formatting of comments, whether in-line or pop-up windows, post from anywhere on the web, without having to enter the system, utilize multiple display templates to always keep the site "fresh", email readers to alert to new updated material, and the list goes on. Anyway, I'm not sure this is so good. Let me know what you think. :-) Thanks, Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 19:46:16 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] New web pages In-Reply-To: <3CC9ED80.5020105@suscom.net> References: <3CC9ED80.5020105@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042617461602.08698@aether> On Friday 26 April 2002 17:14, Douglas Loss wrote: > OK, I've added a page for the ISO project > and modified the existing projects > page to point to it. It should be up in the next five minutes or so; > take a look and let me know what needs to be added or changed. Hi: Excellent. Should draw interest. Will you let lwn.net know? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 19:51:40 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] New projects page In-Reply-To: <3CC9F0E3.6040306@suscom.net> References: <3CC9DB10.8070100@suscom.net> <02042616252400.08361@aether> <3CC9F0E3.6040306@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02042617514003.08698@aether> Hi: Just the man we're looking for. Hey, Jeff Knox, where are you? You have one, possibly three grunts ready to get going on LUG's and press kits. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ P.S. We have to make sure everyone knows something is happening for months, even if it's not happening. OK. We can do that. :-) On Friday 26 April 2002 17:29, Douglas Loss wrote: > tom poe wrote: > > On Friday 26 April 2002 15:56, Douglas Loss wrote: > >>If we later get > >>the educational support materials for LUGs project going, we can put a > >>link to its page there too. > > > > Hi: How hard would it be to add the page at this point? I'm thinking a > > page that would let LUG's post an acknowledgement that they are on board > > with this project. If the page were there, as the active perl users' > > group in Reno, we'd sign up. Maybe it could be a simple form that says > > fill in LUG and email address. Someone could follow up to confirm a > > personal contact, and they'd be posted to the list. This would tie in > > well with a momentum builder and marketing strategy, maybe? > > Here's a tasklist we came up with over a year ago at LinuxWorld NYC: > > http://www.seul.org/edu/tasklist.html > > We've made good progress on some of them, while others are just > getting started (you'll see some things that sound a lot like the ISO > project there). A couple of tasks listed talk about contacting LUGs > and developing materials for them. We could put something together in > fairly short order for LUGs to register on, but I'm afraid we don't > have the resources to support two intensive development projects at > this time. I'd hate for a bunch of LUGs to register with us and then > not hear anything for months. It wouldn't help our credibility at all. > > Having said that, anyone who speaks up and takes an active part in the > work we've laid out is part of the project. If you've got folks who > are excited about this, sign them up! From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 26 22:14:52 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [GKD] Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems In-Reply-To: <200204270023.UAA28432@phoenix.edc.org> References: <200204270023.UAA28432@phoenix.edc.org> Message-ID: <02042620145200.09314@aether> Hi: Two years ago, as you may dimly remember, I posted this: http://www.worldccr.org/kiosks.htm in response to the discussions here, and through the Stockholm Challenge. The missing piece, turns out to be the market consultant that could open the door to a corporate partner for "making it happen". Even with the promise of a multi-million dollar commission that took nothing away from the recipients, this step remains open. Today, there is an alternative path being pursued. This path is directed at the schools, directly. By providing a means to set up networks that are without licensing restrictions, on computers that can be obtained through donations and programs similar to what is mentioned above, entire countries can have the infrastructure filled in with pennies. The wireless aspects can be pursued without regulatory "approval", and the governments of so many countries working to control broadband access requirements can sit on their expensive and questionable decisions. I encourage you to visit http://www.seul.org/ and its ISO project, http://www.seul.org/edu/projects.html and see how it might fit with your efforts. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 26 April 2002 01:10, Alan Levy wrote: > Peter Burgess wrote: > > The posting by Alan Levy regarding small towns building their own high > > speed internet system is also the justification for the rural strategy > > being implemented by ATCnet in Africa. The technology is powerful enough > > and low cost enough for service to be universal and sustainable .... but > > not at the high cost of capital and high cost of fees and taxation that > > are recommended by many international development advisors and > > institutions. > > I am desiring that one non-profit public/private partnership Internet > infrastructure initiative receive spectrum and funding. This was the > lauded advice from the World Economic Forum, in their report contracted > by and issued to the G-8, "Sustaining Growth and Bridging the Digital > Divides." Although the report provided the underlying basis for DOT > Force, and was issued a couple of years ago, not one infrastructure > initiative has been developed. > > In fact, the report ushered in large scale funding by incumbents for > digital divide intiatives focused on issues other than basic access, or > infrastructure. We all know why. And most already recognize that > ninety percent of telecenters are non-sustainable... each absorbing > funds that might provide wireless access to thousands. > > Certain development agencies, when contacted by foreign governments > interested in exploring public/private partnerships, reported that > funding for this type initiative was too difficult, took too long and > came with too many controls and restrictions. According to officials in > the SCT (federal communications department) in Mexico, they were told it > would take too many years. Mexico has now gone to the extreme of > attempting to force mergers within their already limited telecom sector, > solely to secure commercial funding for an advanced broadband > backbone... they're promising in a not too subtle process that the final > commercial entities will receive effective control of the Mexican > Internet. Has anyone read the OECD report on the Mexican telecom > industry? Shudder! > > I am not concerned with commercial opportunity, but I can safely promise > that if the system is built as planned it will not provide service at a > cost affordable to even half of the population. It will not, cannot, > attain universal access to a minimum set of IP communications > applications, not being designed for this purpose. The Mexican > government continues to claim public/private partnerships don't have > access to funding, and so has determined not to provide these with > support, nor spectrum. > > Interestingly, a sustainable initiative, requiring strong support by > state and municipal governments, can expand beyond borders. > > Let's all of us work together to create at least ONE public/private > partnership Internet infrastructure intiative, and build ONE > proof-of-concept non-profit wireless local-loop network. There are a > small but sufficient quantity of commercial ICT organizations, inventors > of technologies, who are neither affiliated with nor cowed by the > telecoms. We're already working with some. > > Create a chorus and the song is better heard. You can start by joining > and confirming your support for an infrastructure initiative. There > will continue to be a divide as long as government policy forces > reliance on monolithic commercial oligarchies. Due to the dearth of > wealth, and cultural and legal differences within most developing > markets, there needs to be a multi-layered infrastructure where networks > are designed to and for the particular class of IP applications. > Inter-operability between networks has eliminated any technical > disadvantage and can provide real cost-saving solutions, without harming > commercial incumbents. > > You can solve the divide by investing... LESS. > > Alan Levy > Mexico, D.F. > refconstandard@yahoo.com > > ===== > Iustum et tenacem propositi virum > si fractus inlabatur orbis > impavidum ferient ruinae > > > > > ------------ > ***GKD is solely supported by EDC, an NGO that is a GKP member*** > To post a message, send it to: > To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message to: > . In the 1st line of the message type: > subscribe gkd OR type: unsubscribe gkd > Archives of previous GKD messages can be found at: > From tompoe at renonevada.net Sat Apr 27 04:51:18 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... In-Reply-To: <61729.65.81.127.149.1019916495.squirrel@mail.haywood.k12.nc.us> References: <3CC996E0.5070408@inch.com> <61729.65.81.127.149.1019916495.squirrel@mail.haywood.k12.nc.us> Message-ID: <02042702511800.00837@aether> Hi: Have you invited the local LUG over for a field trip to see what you have? Sounds like you're right where you need to be to plan and initiate community-based education programs, utilizing volunteers in the community. That's terrific. Can you describe what might be an attractive "demo" that someone could walk through your door, and you would think, gee, I'll take a look and evaluate this? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Saturday 27 April 2002 07:08, Michael Williams wrote: > > Linux already *is* easy to install (certainly easier to install than > > Windows). It *is* important to have an Office-compatible suite (and we > > do). Many school districts *do* need a support contract with a > > company. You can't airily dismiss that last fact with dollops of > > elbow-grease and a can-do spirit, and it's what Red Hat and others > > base their business models on (though I suspect they have bigger fish > > to fry than school districts). We need to be willing work closely with > > *any* company that is willing to provide a support contract to a school > > district. Let's say Red Hat puts together a contract for a school > > district to defenestrate (throw Windows out the window). I think we > > should be able to marshall volunteers on the ground who can help with > > the transition, and then step back a bit and let Red Hat earn their > > money. > > I agree whole heartedly.. Think of them as training wheels.... In all the > years I've been converting our district over, RedHat is the only one that > has taken the time to ask what my needs are and actually listened. They are > talking to people in education and finding out what the resistance is and > are working on solving those issues. > > > Nothing succeeds like success. The best way to show people Linux isn't > > scary is to set them down in front of a working Linux box. The best way > > to show school district CTOs that Linux isn't scary is to show them > > another school district that works just fine on Linux. > > Show and Tell > > > We are doing that. Like any revolutionary technology, we first have to > > go after early adopters. After these people demonstrate to their peers > > that you *can* live without Microsoft, they will eventually get their > > pitchforks and torches, and surround the Castle Gates. The reality is > > that we're dealing with slow-moving bureaucracies, and bureaucracies > > recoil from perceived risk like vampires from a cross. Think of them > > as penguins on an ice floe. They all mass at the edge until one jumps > > (or hast the misfortune to be pushed) into the water. If blood comes > > to the surface, they back off, not wanting to become seal bait. If > > there's no blood in the water, they'll all jump in. > > Come on in the waters fine! :-) > > > I used to work in the marketing department, but I sure wouldn't call > > myself a "marketing person." Anyway, I think it's more important for us > > to get a few districts working well than to worry about conquering the > > world. Total World Domination takes time, after all... > > > > This list is for folks putting together one aspect of TWD, which is > > applications > > (and the matter at hand, an ISO) for schools. One step at a time. > > > > --William > > Anyone actually wanting to help a 100% district wide linux server solution > school district iron out a few issues and help document it please contact > me. I'm sure there are better ways of doing things than I'm currently doing > and could use some input. > > Michael From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 28 03:20:17 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] ISO Projects is reviewd in a Linux Spanish website In-Reply-To: <00a501c1ee7e$527c4390$c5a4253e@windows> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424093723.09ac9eb0@pop3.daukas.com> <200204281104.05273.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <00a501c1ee7e$527c4390$c5a4253e@windows> Message-ID: <02042801201700.04732@aether> Hi: Very nice! Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Saturday 27 April 2002 23:31, JIPS wrote: > > Cried the Google: > > > > The "ISO Project de Seul/edu" is a project that it tries to create the > > first > > > CD with educative programs for Linux surroundings. Seul/edu is a North > > American organization who is compiling all the existing material in > > Internet > > > on educative subjects in combination with free software and specially > > Linux. > > > In a moment, the image will be available iso of this CD to be unloaded > > gratuitously. > > Yes, you may find it directly in > http://linux.bankhacker.com/en/software/ISO+Project+de+Seul-EDU/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 28 10:01:48 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] ISO Projects is reviewd in a Linux Spanish website In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020428114354.00795520@pop.knoware.nl> References: <008f01c1eddc$839ac1b0$c80106c0@windows> <3.0.5.32.20020428114354.00795520@pop.knoware.nl> Message-ID: <02042808014801.07119@aether> Hi: Don't read French. How easy is it to translate the site? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Sunday 28 April 2002 02:43, Dirk Schouten wrote: > >Cried the Google: > > > >The "ISO Project de Seul/edu" is a project that it tries to create the > > first CD with educative programs for Linux surroundings. > > This is not true. See: > http://www.abuledu.org > > A French educational org. that has a complete ed. dist. based on Mandrake. > > Greetings, > Dirk > ___________________________________________ > Dirk Schouten > schoutdi@knoware.nl > ------------------------------------------------------- > Media Action Projects > http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/schoutdi > Take a peek at the NEWS and REVIEWS section! From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 28 14:31:04 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Summary of AbulEdu In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020428201609.008163c0@pop.knoware.nl> References: <3.0.5.32.20020428114354.00795520@pop.knoware.nl> <3.0.5.32.20020428201609.008163c0@pop.knoware.nl> Message-ID: <02042812310400.08173@aether> Hi: And thank you for the update. Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Sunday 28 April 2002 11:16, Dirk Schouten wrote: > Hi Tom and others, > Translating a French site is too much work for me and my F. is :(. > Here is a more than short summary: > > ABULEDU= Association Bordelaise (a region in France, D.) of Free Software > Users. > > Why: Free software is free. Many Parents cannot effort software. In this > way school software can also be used at home. They connect their > philosophy to the French Revolution exclamation: Freedom, Equality, > Brotherhood. > > They work for primary education. The distro is used in 20 locations in > Aquitaine ( a region). The distro is Mandrake 7.2 with: - Web interface in > PHP with which a teacher without computer knowledge can maintain users and > groups. - French school software > - Samba > - A virtualcd rom player for images of 10 cd's > - Proxy & firewall > - Neomail Webmail > - Remote administration > - pedagogic recycling of old computers by way of LTSP > - a toolbox to make your own apps, in AbusEdu > - a hardware tool (a button?) to switch off the server.?? > - software for chipcard authorisation > - an extensive howto > - and a lot more ... > > How does a school get the software: > - The school should pass a test phase > - You need a rather powerful server with 256 Mb Ram. > - Networked computers, old 486 with 512 kb video. > - An Internett connection would be fine but is not necessary. > > Do not blame the translator for bias or misinterpretations. > There is a famous French proverb: > "Traduir c'est mentir un peu". > > Dirk > (thank you Bruno for this wonderful site) > > > > ___________________________________________ > Dirk Schouten > schoutdi@knoware.nl > ------------------------------------------------------- > Media Action Projects > http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/schoutdi > Take a peek at the NEWS and REVIEWS section! From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 28 19:31:13 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [school-discuss] Re: Computer Aid In-Reply-To: <1020038120.791.6.camel@orgc> References: <109.1197c8cd.29fd3ed8@aol.com> <1020037981.1241.4.camel@orgc> <1020038120.791.6.camel@orgc> Message-ID: <02042817311300.09474@aether> Hi: One other primary resource is to utilize local Users' Groups, e.g., Linux Users' Groups, and Perl Users' Groups. There are literally thousands of groups spread around the world: http://www.pm.org/groups.shtml http://www.linux.org/groups/index.html With those two web pages, you have direct access to more than 16,000 organizations that can assist with donated computers, ready and willing. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Sunday 28 April 2002 16:55, Dennis Heuer wrote: > Seconds after I wrote this I found a small overview for US and UK here: > > http://www.fundraising.co.uk/other_fr/donated_pcs.html > > Am Mon, 2002-04-29 um 01.52 schrieb Dennis Heuer: > > Hi, > > > > I was seeking for a catalogue of computer donating charities but could > > not find one. Now I want to create an own catalogue. Could you please > > provide me with references to such charities around the world? > > > > thanks for your help > > > > Dennis Heuer > > dh@onclick.org From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun Apr 28 22:24:32 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] The cavalry have arrived! (-: In-Reply-To: <200204291111.04789.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <3CC9486A.7000201@redhat.com> <3CCBEB88.1010708@redhat.com> <200204291111.04789.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <02042820243200.02173@aether> On Sunday 28 April 2002 20:11, Leon Brooks wrote: > I use Mandrake by default BoC the distros have a lot to contribute to each > other. Have you played with Mandrake's (GPL) distro installer recently? > There might be some recent good ideas to crib for the one you're examining > (in theiory) today. > > Cheers; Leon Hi, Leon: I probably have my email lists mixed up, but have you seen the French education site with their ISO? Thanks, Tom Poe http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 29 12:44:48 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Silence Wednesday Message-ID: <02042910444800.05473@aether> Hi: Web stations going silent Wednesday in response to CARP: http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/04/29/radio-fees.htm If there are LOC, Copyright Office, RIAA, Congress, Hollings email addresses, we could all coordinate a reminder of what their future world sounds like. Maybe point out what it will sound like to the millions who won't be able to afford the new "Hollywood appliance technology" as well. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 29 15:31:41 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Fwd: RE: [DMCA_Discuss] What Laws Does M$ Refer to? Message-ID: <02042913314100.06159@aether> Hi: I would like to see a correction to the seul report, making it painfully clear that Microsoft has gone out of its way to damage the concept and process of donating computers to those organizations, groups, and individuals that might read their donating computers page. They are engaging in fear, uncertainty, and doubt in order to curb the practice of donating computers to others, and, in my opinion, bordering on fraudulent misrepresentation. thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: RE: [DMCA_Discuss] What Laws Does M$ Refer to? Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:52:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Ole Craig To: Raul Ruiz On 04/29/02 at 15:15, 'twas brillig and Raul Ruiz scrobe: This was done to death on /. a little while ago. Essentially, the "legal requirement" is contained in the EULA. What the MS webpages don't tell you is that - it is a contractual (not statutory) requirement, bound to the operating system license, not the computer hardware - it is valid only to the extent that the EULA is valid (TTBOMK, this has never been tested in court) - it applies to the *donor*, not the recipient; i.e. If I give a computer infected with Windows to a school, and fail to supply the license and documentation along with it, then I am in violation of the EULA, not the school. They can use the computer as-is all they want, or install any new operating system upon it -- *as long as that new operating system license is not an "upgrade" to a presumptively-valid previous OS.* > I believe that they may simply be referring to the first sale doctrine > (Title 17, Section 109) in an odd way. If you own a computer with windows > pre-installed, and the terms of purchase of that computer require you to > keep the operating system installed forever (not sure if it does, I never > read those things), you must donate it along with the operating system and > the license. [...] > Hi: Anyone have any idea what laws are being referred to, here? [...] > http://www.microsoft.com/education/?id=DonatedComputers > > It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with > a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a > machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that > was > installed on the PC. Ole -- Ole Craig * olc@cs.umass.edu * UNIX; postmaster, news, web; SGI martyr * CS Computing Facility, UMass * for public key perl -e 'print$i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);' ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 30 00:27:51 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [GKD] OneWorld Radio - Development and Human Rights Portal In-Reply-To: <200204300254.WAA09330@phoenix.edc.org> References: <200204300254.WAA09330@phoenix.edc.org> Message-ID: <02042922275100.02304@aether> Hello: I would hope you will join us all in a day of silence on Wednesday as a protest against pending legislation that impacts eventually on everyone around the world, if it isn't stopped now! http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/042502/index.asp The focus is on music and web-streaming, but there is no question that the goal is to control "content" on the Internet as we know it. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Monday 29 April 2002 07:38, OneWorld.net wrote: > OneWorld , the online human rights and sustainable > development network, has launched OneWorld Radio > , a new portal offering services and features > for broadcasters and NGOs. > > OneWorld Radio aims to harness the power of both old and new media to > promote sustainable development and human rights with a focus of > promoting the free exchange of programmes with development-related > content between radio stations across the globe. > > The portal goes live with a wide range of radio stations and major > broadcast network partners including AMARC, Farm Radio Network, Somali > Radio Network, Refugee Radio Network and UN Radio. Member organisations > already include UNICEF, Unesco, Radio for Development, Amnesty > International, WACC, Search for a Common Ground, Anti-Slavery > International, Plan International and over 250 others. > > The core of OneWorld Radio is an audio exchange database to which > broadcasters can upload their programmes and audio clips. This content > is available for online listening and for other OneWorld Radio members > to download and use for re-broadcast. Audio is searchable by 80 topics - > covering civil society, health, human rights, democracy and sustainable > development - by any language, and also by geographical area. > > "Globally, radio remains the most important media for development, > democracy and community-building particularly for marginalised and > disenfranchised communities across the world," says Jackie Davies, > OneWorld Radio manager. "If the Internet is to be a communications tool > that is of benefit to all, its convergence and interplay with radio is a > key that must be unlocked. OneWorld Radio is about promoting this agenda > and providing a platform for civil society and the media to use, and > learn more about, radio and Internet for sustainable development." > > OneWorld Radio is also a gateway to a wide range of other radio > databases, providing links to broadcaster networks and to other radio > exchange projects. This provides members with centralized access to the > rich seam of programming and support that is available internationally. > > Community building is a central aspect of OneWorld Radio. The portal > provides audio providers, from journalists and producers to NGOs and > radio stations, with a place to meet together online to share > information and to network with one another. A comprehensive database of > audio providers is also being developed; with information about areas of > interest, target audiences and joint venture possibilities. > > A number of information services also feature on OneWorld Radio such as > sector news covering current developments in the 'radio for change' > sector, a resources section for information about funding and > conferences, a support centre for online training on online audio and a > monthly email newsletter. > > - > To subscribe to the OneWorld Radio monthly email newsletter send an > email to: radio@oneworld.net with 'subscribe newsletter' in the > body of the message. > _ > > For media enquiries and to arrange interviews with the team behind > OneWorld Radio contact Glen Tarman, OneWorld publicity manager, Tel +44 > (0)20 7091 4541 Email mailto:media@oneworld.net. > > Notes: > > 1. Organisations and radio stations who wish to join OneWorld Radio > should do so on the site www.oneworld.net/radio. For further information > about membership and feedback on OneWorld Radio contact Jackie Davies, > OneWorld Radio Manager, Email: jackie.davies@oneworld.net. > > 2. OneWorld is a non-profit network with a mission to > harness the democratic potential of the Internet to promote sustainable > development and human rights. > > > > ------------ > ***GKD is solely supported by EDC, an NGO that is a GKP member*** > To post a message, send it to: > To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message to: > . In the 1st line of the message type: > subscribe gkd OR type: unsubscribe gkd > Archives of previous GKD messages can be found at: > From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 30 17:16:10 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Global Repository for Government Comments Message-ID: <02043015161000.21531@aether> Hello: It has occurred to me, as a result of recent efforts to send comments to governmental agencies, subcommittees, representatives and senators, ad nauseum, and with little success, and a growing concern that such obstacles as "email server problems", and "fax problems" and "phone problems" and "mail problems", that maybe the time has come, especially as it is obvious that we are in a global fight over personal freedoms, to consider establishing a Repository for comments regarding various legislation. This Repository should be supported, not by individuals, but by governments around the world, wishing to enter a global [world-order] way of communicating. Such costs for this Repository would be nominal, and would benefit all involved. Citizens could send their email comments to particular mailboxes in the Repository, and governmental officials would be able to search and analyze for keywords, concepts, "feelings", or whatever they wanted. My question is, if this project were to begin, and to go forward, what might be a suggestion, advice, or thoughts about how best to present this to those who should have a vested interest, e.g., Hollings, RIAA, BPDG, Congress, EUCD, UK, France, . . . . got the picture? Your response is greatly anticipated and appreciated. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 30 20:24:59 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: Donated Computers Issue (cont'd) Message-ID: <02043018245900.22356@aether> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi: Seul.org is a site that encourages teachers, administrators, and parents to visit their site, for reliable, conscientious devotion to educational software and applications and projects like the ISO Project. With that in mind, and a review of the article in today's Register, http://213.40.196.64/content/4/25085.html It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with the computer for the life of the computer. - -------------------------------- This is the first sentence at the web site of the Puyallup School District. M$ is running completely mad on this level. What this does is set schools in such a defensive mode, they cannot take donated computers from other than "approved resources". It's simply devastating whatever opportunities for schools to make informed decisions. I think it is critically important that seul.org think about how best to provide accurate, reliable, informed information on this issue. Anyone have any thoughts? thanks Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8z0P5kixEZNfVgpYRAk5bAJ4l58PZ67CL1V0VmTNsc696XL8xwQCeO6rE fMDeh0J9z4gEbNmM1Q+osJE= =b2mU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 30 21:27:41 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Donated Computers Issue (opportunity knocks) In-Reply-To: <200205011009.10729.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <02043018245900.22356@aether> <200205011009.10729.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <02043019274100.22682@aether> Hi: This is exactly perfect!!! Stupendous!!! In the best style of the Madison Avenue Marketing Gurus [that's a good thing], if I do say so, myself. I hope this gets a unanimous "send it out" vote. Once it's on the web site, everyone spread the word to everyone out there. Doug?? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 30 April 2002 19:09, Leon Brooks wrote: > On Wednesday 01 May 2002 09:24, tom poe wrote: > > Hi: Seul.org is a site that encourages teachers, administrators, and > > parents to visit their site, for reliable, conscientious devotion to > > educational software and applications and projects like the ISO Project. > > With that in mind, and a review of the article in today's Register, > > > > http://213.40.196.64/content/4/25085.html > > > > It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain > > with the computer for the life of the computer. > > - -------------------------------- > > This is the first sentence at the web site of the Puyallup School > > District. M$ is running completely mad on this level. What this does is > > set schools in such a defensive mode, they cannot take donated computers > > from other than "approved resources". It's simply devastating whatever > > opportunities for schools to make informed decisions. I think it is > > critically important that seul.org think about how best to provide > > accurate, reliable, informed information on this issue. Anyone have any > > thoughts? > > Knock, knock, knock... heark, is that the sound of opportunity I hear? (-: > > Can we have a short but offocial article from SEUL to distribute to El Reg > and any other news site you can reach? Something along the lines of: > > --------8<----cut-here----8<-------- > > LINUX ENABLES COMPUTER DONATIONS TO SCHOOLS > > $LOCATION, Wednesday: In an official announcement from the SEUL group > today, $PERSON overturned Microsoft's draconian threats against the > acceptance of donated computers by schools and other needy organisations. > > "Microsoft claim that it is a legal requirement that pre-installed > operating systems remain with the computer for the life of the computer," > $HESHE said. "Like viruses and security issues, that problem is almost > exclusive to Microsoft. Using Linux, OpenOffice.org and other Open Source > software, you can accept practically any donated computer regardless of > operating system, erase the existing software, install Open Source software > and operate the computer legally and safely as a powerful workstation or a > server, at little or no cost." > > $PERSON also explained that Linux rolled back the burdens, costs and legal > risks of licence management and software asset auditing for all businesses, > organisations and individuals. Linux is also easy to operate as a diskless > workstation or "thin client", and many schools were rolling out networks of > student terminals using this technology with both donated and new > equipment, $HESHE explained. > > SEUL is an organisation working towards a simpler, easier Linux experience > for all, and may be contacted through their website at > http://www.seul.org/. In combination with your local Linux user group - > which you can locate at http://www.linux.org/ - SEUL can field volunteers > to help schools and charitable organisations get started in the stable, > secure, safe world of Linux. > > --------8<----cut-here----8<-------- > > Cheers; Leon From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 30 22:06:22 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Donated Computers Issue (opportunity knocks) In-Reply-To: <200205011048.37889.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <02043018245900.22356@aether> <02043019274100.22682@aether> <200205011048.37889.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <02043020062202.22682@aether> Hi: Did a screen capture: msdonatepage.png, in case that serves us. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 30 April 2002 19:48, Leon Brooks wrote: > On Wednesday 01 May 2002 10:27, tom poe wrote: > > I hope this gets a unanimous "send it out" vote. > > > > Once it's on the web site, everyone spread the word to everyone out > > there. > > Time, I think, will be of the essence, and maybe include a link to > Microsoft's guidelines as well as quoting them verbatim in a footnote in > case they change. > > Cheers; Leon From alex at synchcorp.com Tue Apr 30 22:25:36 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [seul-edu] Donated Computers Issue (opportunity knocks) References: <02043018245900.22356@aether> <200205011009.10729.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <02043019274100.22682@aether> Message-ID: <3CCF6030.DB0C0FAF@synchcorp.com> SEND IT OUT!!! :) Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > Hi: This is exactly perfect!!! Stupendous!!! In the best style of the > Madison Avenue Marketing Gurus [that's a good thing], if I do say so, myself. > I hope this gets a unanimous "send it out" vote. > > Once it's on the web site, everyone spread the word to everyone out there. > Doug?? > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > On Tuesday 30 April 2002 19:09, Leon Brooks wrote: > > On Wednesday 01 May 2002 09:24, tom poe wrote: > > > Hi: Seul.org is a site that encourages teachers, administrators, and > > > parents to visit their site, for reliable, conscientious devotion to > > > educational software and applications and projects like the ISO Project. > > > With that in mind, and a review of the article in today's Register, > > > > > > http://213.40.196.64/content/4/25085.html > > > > > > It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain > > > with the computer for the life of the computer. > > > - -------------------------------- > > > This is the first sentence at the web site of the Puyallup School > > > District. M$ is running completely mad on this level. What this does is > > > set schools in such a defensive mode, they cannot take donated computers > > > from other than "approved resources". It's simply devastating whatever > > > opportunities for schools to make informed decisions. I think it is > > > critically important that seul.org think about how best to provide > > > accurate, reliable, informed information on this issue. Anyone have any > > > thoughts? > > > > Knock, knock, knock... heark, is that the sound of opportunity I hear? (-: > > > > Can we have a short but offocial article from SEUL to distribute to El Reg > > and any other news site you can reach? Something along the lines of: > > > > --------8<----cut-here----8<-------- > > > > LINUX ENABLES COMPUTER DONATIONS TO SCHOOLS > > > > $LOCATION, Wednesday: In an official announcement from the SEUL group > > today, $PERSON overturned Microsoft's draconian threats against the > > acceptance of donated computers by schools and other needy organisations. > > > > "Microsoft claim that it is a legal requirement that pre-installed > > operating systems remain with the computer for the life of the computer," > > $HESHE said. "Like viruses and security issues, that problem is almost > > exclusive to Microsoft. Using Linux, OpenOffice.org and other Open Source > > software, you can accept practically any donated computer regardless of > > operating system, erase the existing software, install Open Source software > > and operate the computer legally and safely as a powerful workstation or a > > server, at little or no cost." > > > > $PERSON also explained that Linux rolled back the burdens, costs and legal > > risks of licence management and software asset auditing for all businesses, > > organisations and individuals. Linux is also easy to operate as a diskless > > workstation or "thin client", and many schools were rolling out networks of > > student terminals using this technology with both donated and new > > equipment, $HESHE explained. > > > > SEUL is an organisation working towards a simpler, easier Linux experience > > for all, and may be contacted through their website at > > http://www.seul.org/. In combination with your local Linux user group - > > which you can locate at http://www.linux.org/ - SEUL can field volunteers > > to help schools and charitable organisations get started in the stable, > > secure, safe world of Linux. > > > > --------8<----cut-here----8<-------- > > > > Cheers; Leon > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 30 22:58:04 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: This from llrx.com Message-ID: <02043020580402.22861@aether> Hi: Just to show how this stuff spreads, here's a librarian resource: http://www.llrx.com/newstand/index.htm It's top of the list, and leaves the impression that it's the LAW! Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue Apr 30 23:52:31 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:10 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Donated Computers Issue (opportunity knocks) In-Reply-To: <20020501043152.43D73146AC4@moria.seul.org> References: <02043018245900.22356@aether> <200205011048.37889.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <20020501043152.43D73146AC4@moria.seul.org> Message-ID: <02043021523100.23486@aether> Hi: Noone has a definitive answer for this, one way or the other, and M$ isn't forthright enough to state explicitly what the legal basis is. Seems, though, they might be referring to language contained in a EULA, but have obviously taken that language to its' extreme, here. Bottom line is this. When the company exerts such blatant and obscene Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt through its' statements, against a concept called, donated computers, one can't help but feel outrage and disgust for any that are associated with the authorship of such a page. Institutions cannot afford principled postures. Schools, libraries, and educational, nonprofit organizations cannot afford to test the idiocy of such a corporation as M$. And, as Leon Brooks, so elegantly stated, time to move. Time to put them in an accountable position. And, the best way, is to make sure these "victims" have alternatives and options to consider. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 30 April 2002 21:31, Nicolas Marchildon wrote: > On April 30, 2002 10:48 pm, you wrote: > > On Wednesday 01 May 2002 10:27, tom poe wrote: > > > I hope this gets a unanimous "send it out" vote. > > > > > > Once it's on the web site, everyone spread the word to everyone out > > > there. > > > > Time, I think, will be of the essence, and maybe include a link to > > Microsoft's guidelines as well as quoting them verbatim in a footnote in > > case they change. > > Two thumbs up :) > > BTW, do they have any justification on why "it is a legal requirement that > pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the > machine"? I feel like this is a terrible lie! > > Nicolas