From sfcamacho at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 04:42:29 2008 From: sfcamacho at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9rgio_Camacho?=) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:42:29 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Linguagens_em_decl=EDnio?= Message-ID: O que acham disto? ** * * *Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less* *Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff* Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put out to pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation programming language PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many employers. Foote Partners CEO David Foote says PowerBuilder is one of several programming languages in long-term decline, including Hewlett-Packard's variant on the Unix language, HP-UX, Perl, and C. IT workers skilled in these declining languages have seen their pay levels drop by 11 percent or more in the past 12 months, according to Foote Partners' latest survey. Foote says C is not going to go away because it is widely used in embedded devices, but there is no need for businesses to have someone write applications in C. Even some newer IT skills are already finding themselves less and less in demand. For example, Wireless Markup Language (WML), which became popular about eight years ago as a way of creating mobile Internet sites that could be viewed by early mobile browsers, is already in decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile devices continue to become more powerful, the market value of WML skills has dropped 12.5 percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is Novell Netware, which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of Microsoft Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says that demand for Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term upward trends, and notes that year-on-year comparisons can be influenced by short-term supply trends. View Full Article| Return to Headlines <#top> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cogurov at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 04:56:19 2008 From: cogurov at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Castro?=) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:56:19 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Linguagens_em_decl=EDnio?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4895a0700810270456v3566e3afhd7720f5e82bfe870@mail.gmail.com> Eu acho que quem escreveu o artigo era mais um jornalista t?pico, que n?o sabe do que fala :-) 2008/10/27 S?rgio Camacho > O que acham disto? > > > ** > > * > * > > *Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less* > *Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff* > > Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put out to > pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation programming language > PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many employers. Foote Partners CEO > David Foote says PowerBuilder is one of several programming languages in > long-term decline, including Hewlett-Packard's variant on the Unix language, > HP-UX, Perl, and C. IT workers skilled in these declining languages have > seen their pay levels drop by 11 percent or more in the past 12 months, > according to Foote Partners' latest survey. Foote says C is not going to go > away because it is widely used in embedded devices, but there is no need for > businesses to have someone write applications in C. Even some newer IT > skills are already finding themselves less and less in demand. For example, > Wireless Markup Language (WML), which became popular about eight years ago > as a way of creating mobile Internet sites that could be viewed by early > mobile browsers, is already in decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile > devices continue to become more powerful, the market value of WML skills has > dropped 12.5 percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is Novell > Netware, which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of Microsoft > Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says that demand for > Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term upward trends, and notes > that year-on-year comparisons can be influenced by short-term supply trends. > > View Full Article| Return > to Headlines <#11d3e1cf346a858b_top> > > _______________________________________________ > Porto-pm mailing list > Porto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm > > -- Jos? Castro -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From melo at co.sapo.pt Mon Oct 27 05:24:01 2008 From: melo at co.sapo.pt (Pedro Melo) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:24:01 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Linguagens_em_decl=EDnio?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BC54871-EEB0-4A88-B3C4-9C2AA4610B7F@co.sapo.pt> Ol?, On Oct 27, 2008, at 11:42 AM, S?rgio Camacho wrote: > O que acham disto? Acho que ? mais um artigo na longa serie de artigos "X is dead" (replace X with your favorite lang). Relativamente ao C, j? passei pessoalmente por: * C is dead, C++ will rule; * C and C++ is dead, Java will rule; A realidade ? que o pr?prio JDK, o perl, ruby, python et al, s?o todos escritos numa linguagem: C ou C++. Dai que a n?o ser que essas linguagens deixem de ser compiladas a partir de c?digo fonte, C e C++ n?o v?o a lado nenhum. Quanto ao Perl. Para mim ser? sempre o "hidden dragon". N?o se fala nele, mas est? em todo o lado a fazer trabalho critico. Tem uma imagem muito apagada, mas todos os dias vejo entre 30 a 40 modulos a aparecerem no CPAN. N?o conhe?o outro reposit?rio de software que tenha essa vida. Mesmo que o Perl seja o Cobol da gera??o 2030-2050 (sensivelmente a idade onde v?o buscar pessoas j? reformadas como eu para limpar c?digo antigo), acho que tenho trabalho para o resto da vida e consigo com ele pagar tudo o que preciso e do que os meus dois filhos precisam. Quanto ao payrate: acho que vais ver que o pay rate de todas as linguagens vai levar um tombo :). Dito isto, saber apenas a linguagem da moda (seja ela Perl, Java, Ruby, JavaScript) nunca ? boa ideia. Ficas mais vulneravel. Eu pessoalmente sei C, Perl, shell muito bem, tenho aprendido muito de JavaScritp, e safo-me se for preciso em Ruby. Tenho sempre ? m?o uns livros de erlang para o caso de ser necess?rio. E como pr?xima linguagem, provavelmente Perl6. Int?, > > > Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less > Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff > > Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put > out to pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation > programming language PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many > employers. Foote Partners CEO David Foote says PowerBuilder is one > of several programming languages in long-term decline, including > Hewlett-Packard's variant on the Unix language, HP-UX, Perl, and C. > IT workers skilled in these declining languages have seen their pay > levels drop by 11 percent or more in the past 12 months, according > to Foote Partners' latest survey. Foote says C is not going to go > away because it is widely used in embedded devices, but there is no > need for businesses to have someone write applications in C. Even > some newer IT skills are already finding themselves less and less in > demand. For example, Wireless Markup Language (WML), which became > popular about eight years ago as a way of creating mobile Internet > sites that could be viewed by early mobile browsers, is already in > decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile devices continue to > become more powerful, the market value of WML skills has dropped > 12.5 percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is Novell > Netware, which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of > Microsoft Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says > that demand for Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term > upward trends, and notes that year-on-year comparisons can be > influenced by short-term supply trends. > View Full Article | Return to Headlines > _______________________________________________ > Porto-pm mailing list > Porto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm -- HIId: Pedro Melo SMTP: melo at co.sapo.pt XMPP: pedro.melo at sapo.pt From albie at alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt Mon Oct 27 10:05:29 2008 From: albie at alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Sim=F5es?=) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:05:29 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Linguagens_em_decl=EDnio?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4905F4D9.1030208@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> Ignorancia! S?rgio Camacho wrote: > O que acham disto? > > > ** > > * > * > > *Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less* > /Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff/ > > Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put out > to pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation programming > language PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many employers. Foote > Partners CEO David Foote says PowerBuilder is one of several programming > languages in long-term decline, including Hewlett-Packard's variant on > the Unix language, HP-UX, Perl, and C. IT workers skilled in these > declining languages have seen their pay levels drop by 11 percent or > more in the past 12 months, according to Foote Partners' latest survey. > Foote says C is not going to go away because it is widely used in > embedded devices, but there is no need for businesses to have someone > write applications in C. Even some newer IT skills are already finding > themselves less and less in demand. For example, Wireless Markup > Language (WML), which became popular about eight years ago as a way of > creating mobile Internet sites that could be viewed by early mobile > browsers, is already in decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile > devices continue to become more powerful, the market value of WML skills > has dropped 12.5 percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is > Novell Netware, which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of > Microsoft Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says that > demand for Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term upward > trends, and notes that year-on-year comparisons can be influenced by > short-term supply trends. > > View Full Article > > | Return to Headlines <#top> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Porto-pm mailing list > Porto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm -- Alberto Sim?es - Departamento de Inform?tica - Universidade do Minho Campus de Gualtar - 4710-057 Braga - Portugal From paulo at novisnet.pt Mon Oct 27 10:10:08 2008 From: paulo at novisnet.pt (Paulo A Ferreira) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:10:08 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Linguagens_em_decl=EDnio?= In-Reply-To: <4905F4D9.1030208@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> References: <4905F4D9.1030208@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: <4905F5F0.4080700@novisnet.pt> Que linguagens ensinam na UM globalmente nestes dias? Paulo Alberto Sim?es wrote: > Ignorancia! > > S?rgio Camacho wrote: >> O que acham disto? >> >> >> ** >> >> * >> * >> >> *Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less* >> /Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff/ >> >> Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put >> out to pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation >> programming language PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many >> employers. Foote Partners CEO David Foote says PowerBuilder is one of >> several programming languages in long-term decline, including >> Hewlett-Packard's variant on the Unix language, HP-UX, Perl, and C. IT >> workers skilled in these declining languages have seen their pay >> levels drop by 11 percent or more in the past 12 months, according to >> Foote Partners' latest survey. Foote says C is not going to go away >> because it is widely used in embedded devices, but there is no need >> for businesses to have someone write applications in C. Even some >> newer IT skills are already finding themselves less and less in >> demand. For example, Wireless Markup Language (WML), which became >> popular about eight years ago as a way of creating mobile Internet >> sites that could be viewed by early mobile browsers, is already in >> decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile devices continue to become >> more powerful, the market value of WML skills has dropped 12.5 >> percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is Novell Netware, >> which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of Microsoft >> Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says that demand >> for Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term upward trends, >> and notes that year-on-year comparisons can be influenced by >> short-term supply trends. >> >> View Full Article >> >> | Return to Headlines <#top> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Porto-pm mailing list >> Porto-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm > From albie at alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt Mon Oct 27 10:23:14 2008 From: albie at alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Sim=F5es?=) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:23:14 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Linguagens_em_decl=EDnio?= In-Reply-To: <4905F5F0.4080700@novisnet.pt> References: <4905F4D9.1030208@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> <4905F5F0.4080700@novisnet.pt> Message-ID: <4905F902.3060802@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> 1o semestre: Haskell 2o semestre: C 3o semestre: Prolog 4o semestre: Java E estou a ensinar Perl no mestrado de Engenharia de Linguagens. Abra?os Alberto Paulo A Ferreira wrote: > Que linguagens ensinam na UM globalmente nestes dias? > > Paulo > > Alberto Sim?es wrote: >> Ignorancia! >> >> S?rgio Camacho wrote: >>> O que acham disto? >>> >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * >>> * >>> >>> *Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less* >>> /Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff/ >>> >>> Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put >>> out to pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation >>> programming language PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many >>> employers. Foote Partners CEO David Foote says PowerBuilder is one of >>> several programming languages in long-term decline, including >>> Hewlett-Packard's variant on the Unix language, HP-UX, Perl, and C. IT >>> workers skilled in these declining languages have seen their pay >>> levels drop by 11 percent or more in the past 12 months, according to >>> Foote Partners' latest survey. Foote says C is not going to go away >>> because it is widely used in embedded devices, but there is no need >>> for businesses to have someone write applications in C. Even some >>> newer IT skills are already finding themselves less and less in >>> demand. For example, Wireless Markup Language (WML), which became >>> popular about eight years ago as a way of creating mobile Internet >>> sites that could be viewed by early mobile browsers, is already in >>> decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile devices continue to become >>> more powerful, the market value of WML skills has dropped 12.5 >>> percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is Novell Netware, >>> which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of Microsoft >>> Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says that demand >>> for Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term upward trends, >>> and notes that year-on-year comparisons can be influenced by >>> short-term supply trends. >>> >>> View Full Article >>> >>> | Return to Headlines <#top> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Porto-pm mailing list >>> Porto-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm > > -- Alberto Sim?es - Departamento de Inform?tica - Universidade do Minho Campus de Gualtar - 4710-057 Braga - Portugal From tfpedroso at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 10:50:12 2008 From: tfpedroso at gmail.com (Tiago Faro Pedroso) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:50:12 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?utf-8?q?Linguagens_em_decl=C3=ADnio?= In-Reply-To: <4905F902.3060802@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> References: <4905F4D9.1030208@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> <4905F5F0.4080700@novisnet.pt> <4905F902.3060802@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: <6786CCAB-3FC6-4028-9FD1-DA84DAFBD0D8@gmail.com> ? bom saber q a UM permanece na vanguarda Gostei bastante da cadeira obrigat?ria 'aplica??es em rede' na FCUP, mas compreendo que seja desnecess?ria para os alunos da U Vinho... ;) Tiago Faro Pedroso tfpedroso at gmail.com On 2008/10/27, at 17:23, Alberto Sim?es wrote: > 1o semestre: Haskell > 2o semestre: C > 3o semestre: Prolog > 4o semestre: Java > > E estou a ensinar Perl no mestrado de Engenharia de Linguagens. > > Abra?os > Alberto > > Paulo A Ferreira wrote: >> Que linguagens ensinam na UM globalmente nestes dias? >> Paulo >> Alberto Sim?es wrote: >>> Ignorancia! >>> >>> S?rgio Camacho wrote: >>>> O que acham disto? >>>> >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> * >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less* >>>> /Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff/ >>>> >>>> Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put >>>> out to pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation >>>> programming language PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many >>>> employers. Foote Partners CEO David Foote says PowerBuilder is >>>> one of >>>> several programming languages in long-term decline, including >>>> Hewlett-Packard's variant on the Unix language, HP-UX, Perl, and >>>> C. IT >>>> workers skilled in these declining languages have seen their pay >>>> levels drop by 11 percent or more in the past 12 months, >>>> according to >>>> Foote Partners' latest survey. Foote says C is not going to go away >>>> because it is widely used in embedded devices, but there is no need >>>> for businesses to have someone write applications in C. Even some >>>> newer IT skills are already finding themselves less and less in >>>> demand. For example, Wireless Markup Language (WML), which became >>>> popular about eight years ago as a way of creating mobile Internet >>>> sites that could be viewed by early mobile browsers, is already in >>>> decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile devices continue to >>>> become >>>> more powerful, the market value of WML skills has dropped 12.5 >>>> percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is Novell >>>> Netware, >>>> which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of Microsoft >>>> Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says that >>>> demand >>>> for Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term upward >>>> trends, >>>> and notes that year-on-year comparisons can be influenced by >>>> short-term supply trends. >>>> >>>> View Full Article >>>> >>> > >>>> | Return to Headlines <#top> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> --- >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Porto-pm mailing list >>>> Porto-pm at pm.org >>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm > > -- > Alberto Sim?es - Departamento de Inform?tica - Universidade do Minho > Campus de Gualtar - 4710-057 Braga - Portugal > _______________________________________________ > Porto-pm mailing list > Porto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm From albie at alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt Mon Oct 27 10:52:52 2008 From: albie at alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt (=?UTF-8?B?QWxiZXJ0byBTaW3DtWVz?=) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:52:52 +0000 Subject: [Porto-pm] =?utf-8?q?Linguagens_em_decl=C3=ADnio?= In-Reply-To: <6786CCAB-3FC6-4028-9FD1-DA84DAFBD0D8@gmail.com> References: <4905F4D9.1030208@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> <4905F5F0.4080700@novisnet.pt> <4905F902.3060802@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> <6786CCAB-3FC6-4028-9FD1-DA84DAFBD0D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4905FFF4.90208@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> Este pessoal n?o deixa fazer nada de jeito :-S Tiago Faro Pedroso wrote: > ? bom saber q a UM permanece na vanguarda > > Gostei bastante da cadeira obrigat?ria 'aplica??es em rede' na FCUP, mas > compreendo que seja desnecess?ria para os alunos da U Vinho... ;) > > Tiago Faro Pedroso > tfpedroso at gmail.com > > On 2008/10/27, at 17:23, Alberto Sim?es > wrote: > >> 1o semestre: Haskell >> 2o semestre: C >> 3o semestre: Prolog >> 4o semestre: Java >> >> E estou a ensinar Perl no mestrado de Engenharia de Linguagens. >> >> Abra?os >> Alberto >> >> Paulo A Ferreira wrote: >>> Que linguagens ensinam na UM globalmente nestes dias? >>> Paulo >>> Alberto Sim?es wrote: >>>> Ignorancia! >>>> >>>> S?rgio Camacho wrote: >>>>> O que acham disto? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ** >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> *Skills in Ancient Languages Valued Less* >>>>> /Financial Times Digital Business (10/22/08) P. 5; Nairn, Geoff/ >>>>> >>>>> Some IT skills, while clearly not dead yet, are certainly being put >>>>> out to pasture. For example, the once-hot fourth-generation >>>>> programming language PowerBuilder is now largely forgotten by many >>>>> employers. Foote Partners CEO David Foote says PowerBuilder is one of >>>>> several programming languages in long-term decline, including >>>>> Hewlett-Packard's variant on the Unix language, HP-UX, Perl, and C. IT >>>>> workers skilled in these declining languages have seen their pay >>>>> levels drop by 11 percent or more in the past 12 months, according to >>>>> Foote Partners' latest survey. Foote says C is not going to go away >>>>> because it is widely used in embedded devices, but there is no need >>>>> for businesses to have someone write applications in C. Even some >>>>> newer IT skills are already finding themselves less and less in >>>>> demand. For example, Wireless Markup Language (WML), which became >>>>> popular about eight years ago as a way of creating mobile Internet >>>>> sites that could be viewed by early mobile browsers, is already in >>>>> decline. Over the last 12 months, as mobile devices continue to become >>>>> more powerful, the market value of WML skills has dropped 12.5 >>>>> percent. Another popular skill that is fading away is Novell Netware, >>>>> which has since been overwhelmed by the rapid rise of Microsoft >>>>> Windows, which comes with built-in networking. Foote says that demand >>>>> for Microsoft and open source skills are on long-term upward trends, >>>>> and notes that year-on-year comparisons can be influenced by >>>>> short-term supply trends. >>>>> >>>>> View Full Article >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> | Return to Headlines <#top> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Porto-pm mailing list >>>>> Porto-pm at pm.org >>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm >> >> -- >> Alberto Sim?es - Departamento de Inform?tica - Universidade do Minho >> Campus de Gualtar - 4710-057 Braga - Portugal >> _______________________________________________ >> Porto-pm mailing list >> Porto-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/porto-pm -- Alberto Sim?es - Departamento de Inform?tica - Universidade do Minho Campus de Gualtar - 4710-057 Braga - Portugal