From j.g.britt at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 07:32:15 2007 From: j.g.britt at gmail.com (J Britt) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:32:15 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [ANN] BarCamp Phoenix 2007 - December 8, at UAT Message-ID: http://barcamp.org/BarCampPhoenix BarCamp is an ad-hoc un-conference born from the desire for people to share and learn in an open environment. It is an intense event with discussions, demos and interaction from attendees. All attendees must give a demo, a session, or help with one. Anyone with something to contribute or with the desire to learn is welcome and invited to join. When you come, be prepared to share with barcampers. When you leave, be prepared to share it with the world. It's like Refresh Phoenix, only more technical. When: Saturday, December 8, from 8am to 5pm Where: UAT, 2625 W. Baseline Td., Tempe, AZ 85283-1056 Please visit the Wiki at http://barcamp.org/BarCampPhoenix The concept of this conference is start with a loose structure and build the topic plan on the day of camp with the people in attendance. The general topics are things to do with the internet or technology, perhaps Web related, but from there it's open. If there's something you'd like to present simply add it to the list, if there's something that you'd like to learn more about add it to the list of suggestions and maybe someone else will pick it up. Basically the idea here is just to collect a bunch of smart people together and allow them to talk about what ever is interesting to them. If you're an expert on something it might make a good topic, as would a simple demo of something cool that you've made. Last year's BarCamp Phoenix was a blast. Don't miss this one! Questions? Contact James Britt: james at risingtidesoftware.com From dwchandler at stilyagin.com Tue Dec 4 14:24:51 2007 From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:24:51 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Beer & BSD Tonight Message-ID: <20071204222451.GD527@tuppy.intrepidhosting.net> Hi! It's the first Tuesday again, and this month is Beer & BSD at Casey Moore's in Tempe, at 7pm. In addition to the normal chat about BSD, I'll have a little bit to tell about OpenCON, which I just attended in Venice. I met many OpenBSD developers from around the world, as well as lots of BSD users. Oh, and there were canals and stuff there, too. -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD User Group | MetaBUG dwchandler at stilyagin.com | http://phxbug.org/ | http://metabug.org/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | Daemons in the Desert | Global BUG Federation From scott at illogics.org Tue Dec 18 10:56:51 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:56:51 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl 5.10 released, Perl's 20th birthday Message-ID: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> http://use/perl.org for the story. Perl 5.10 has been released, with a slew of new features, and it's Perl's 20th birthday. Happy birthday, Perl! Anyone up for drinks tomorrow at Casey Moore's, downtown Tempe? We could talk about named variable captures in regex, and recursive regexen, given/when, and all of the other neat new toys in 5.10. -scott From scott at illogics.org Tue Dec 18 14:14:35 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:14:35 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl 5.10 released, Perl's 20th birthday In-Reply-To: <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> References: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> Message-ID: <20071218221435.GZ6603@slowass.net> So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their way home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages trickle in. -scott On 0, Bill Lindley wrote: > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? From scott at illogics.org Tue Dec 18 17:47:35 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:47:35 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl 5.10 released, Perl's 20th birthday In-Reply-To: References: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> <20071218221435.GZ6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <20071219014735.GD6603@slowass.net> I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk about it. Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. -s On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > way > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > trickle in. > -scott > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > References > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Wed Dec 19 12:30:40 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:30:40 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: Re: Changes in m//m in 5.10 Message-ID: <20071219203040.GG6603@slowass.net> ----- Forwarded message from Rafael Garcia-Suarez ----- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:26:51 +0100 From: Rafael Garcia-Suarez To: Andy Lester Subject: Re: Changes in m//m in 5.10 Cc: Perl 5 Porters On 19/12/2007, Andy Lester wrote: > Can someone explain why this is so? > > $ cat test.pl > my $buffer = qq{blah\nfoo\nblah}; > my $regex = qr/^foo/; > print "Running $], ", $buffer =~ /$regex/m ? 'found' : 'not found', > "\n"; > > $ perl test.pl > Running 5.008008, found > > $ perl510 test.pl > Running 5.010000, not found > > ack fails its tests because of this behavior, which is what led me > down this path. The effect of /m is no longer global, but it now only affects the regexp it was applied to. No more unwanted side effects! See bug http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=22354 Incidentally, that was to fix this bug that $* was removed. ----- End forwarded message ----- From andy at petdance.com Wed Dec 19 13:58:27 2007 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:58:27 -0600 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: Re: Changes in m//m in 5.10 In-Reply-To: <20071219203040.GG6603@slowass.net> References: <20071219203040.GG6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <3B583F8F-AFB2-45D6-A605-A0C5178F817B@petdance.com> But the way I read this is that it should be done as my $regex = /^foo/m; if ( $str =~ /$regex ) instead of my $regex = /^foo/; if ( $str =~ /$regex/m ) which is how I've always done it. That could be a BIG incompatibility. It broke ack. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From scott at illogics.org Wed Dec 19 13:05:08 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:05:08 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219014735.GD6603@slowass.net> References: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> <20071218221435.GZ6603@slowass.net> <20071219014735.GD6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, then that's what we'll do. Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% alcohol). Cheers, -scott On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky > if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk > about it. > > Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. > Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite > coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > > -s > > On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > > way > > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > > trickle in. > > -scott > > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > References > > > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From jdawgaz at cox.net Wed Dec 19 14:35:30 2007 From: jdawgaz at cox.net (jdawgaz at cox.net) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:35:30 -0500 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <20071219173531.Q6W7G.83565.root@fed1wml14.mgt.cox.net> when is this? i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in scottsdale or fountain hills? ---- Scott Walters wrote: > This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from > the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject > line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new > features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large > chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- > portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following > Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's > been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe > counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? > > Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do > a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, > then that's what we'll do. > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > alcohol). > > Cheers, > -scott > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky > > if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk > > about it. > > > > Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. > > Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > > call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite > > coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > > > > -s > > > > On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > > > > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > > > > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > > > way > > > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > > > trickle in. > > > -scott > > > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > References > > > > > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > > > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > > > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From ben at benatkin.com Wed Dec 19 14:44:10 2007 From: ben at benatkin.com (Ben Atkin) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:44:10 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219173531.Q6W7G.83565.root@fed1wml14.mgt.cox.net> References: <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> <20071219173531.Q6W7G.83565.root@fed1wml14.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <5004c9f90712191444y6e80f3depd8928701331a0cc4@mail.gmail.com> Four Peaks South is in Tempe, between Rural and McClintock, just south of University. Four Peaks North is in Scottsdale. http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&q=four+peaks&near=Tempe,+AZ&fb=1&view=text&cd=1&hl=en&latlng=33419284,-111916460,14713383131037040592&ei=SJ1pR-qEN5uejQPUt5m7Aw It's not just a bar. It's a brewery with a restaurant. It's got good food at reasonable prices. Ben On Dec 19, 2007 3:35 PM, wrote: > when is this? > i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in scottsdale or fountain hills? > > > ---- Scott Walters wrote: > > This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from > > the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject > > line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new > > features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large > > chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- > > portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following > > Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's > > been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe > > counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? > > > > Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do > > a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, > > then that's what we'll do. > > > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > > alcohol). > > > > Cheers, > > -scott > > > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > > I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky > > > if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk > > > about it. > > > > > > Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. > > > Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > > > call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite > > > coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > > > > > > -s > > > > > > On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > > > > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > > > > way > > > > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > > > > trickle in. > > > > -scott > > > > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > > > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > > > References > > > > > > > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > > > > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > > > > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > -- Ben Atkin ben at benatkin.com http://www.benatkin.com/ From scott at illogics.org Wed Dec 19 13:26:37 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:26:37 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219173531.Q6W7G.83565.root@fed1wml14.mgt.cox.net> References: <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> <20071219173531.Q6W7G.83565.root@fed1wml14.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <20071219212637.GJ6603@slowass.net> Hi jdawgaz, Four Peaks is a microbrewery, but considering how much fermentation capacity they have and how much beer the college students put away, I'm not sure "micro" really holds. It's in an old fish warehouse, a big old brick building, which was formerly part of the Pacific Creamery, dating back to the late 1800s or early 1900s. So, the atmosphere is good, or about the best you can do in Phoenix. Er, it's near downtown Tempe: They have a full bar, but a lot of people discover that they like the alcoholic beverage, currently lacking a distinctive name, that's made out of barley, hopped, and self-carbonated, rather than the stuff commonly known as "beer" which is actually rice, rice sugars, corn sugars, fermented to high gravity and watered down, barely hopped at all, and filled with chemical stabilzers to create artifical head rentention before being force carbonated like soda. http://fourpeaks.com (Hmm, if no one wants to talk about Perl on this list, maybe I can start a beer "discussion" if I just troll a bit...). -scott On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: > when is this? > i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in scottsdale or fountain hills? > > ---- Scott Walters wrote: > > This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from > > the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject > > line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new > > features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large > > chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- > > portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following > > Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's > > been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe > > counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? > > > > Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do > > a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, > > then that's what we'll do. > > > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > > alcohol). > > > > Cheers, > > -scott > > > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > > I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky > > > if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk > > > about it. > > > > > > Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. > > > Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > > > call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite > > > coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > > > > > > -s > > > > > > On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > > > > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > > > > way > > > > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > > > > trickle in. > > > > -scott > > > > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > > > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > > > References > > > > > > > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > > > > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > > > > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From jdawgaz at cox.net Wed Dec 19 14:51:12 2007 From: jdawgaz at cox.net (jdawgaz at cox.net) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:51:12 -0500 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219212637.GJ6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <20071219175112.1CYET.63557.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> thanks. but that only got one of my questions. when is the meeting. and yes, I would be interested in seeing what perl 5.10 has to offer. also I am stuck using 5.8 ish for quite a while, except of course at home jerry ---- Scott Walters wrote: > Hi jdawgaz, > > Four Peaks is a microbrewery, but considering how much fermentation > capacity they have and how much beer the college students put away, > I'm not sure "micro" really holds. It's in an old fish warehouse, > a big old brick building, which was formerly part of the Pacific > Creamery, dating back to the late 1800s or early 1900s. So, > the atmosphere is good, or about the best you can do in Phoenix. > Er, it's near downtown Tempe: > > They have a full bar, but a lot of people discover that they > like the alcoholic beverage, currently lacking a distinctive name, > that's made out of barley, hopped, and self-carbonated, rather > than the stuff commonly known as "beer" which is actually > rice, rice sugars, corn sugars, fermented to high gravity > and watered down, barely hopped at all, and filled with > chemical stabilzers to create artifical head rentention > before being force carbonated like soda. > > http://fourpeaks.com > > (Hmm, if no one wants to talk about Perl on this list, maybe > I can start a beer "discussion" if I just troll a bit...). > > -scott > > > > > On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: > > when is this? > > i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in scottsdale or fountain hills? > > > > ---- Scott Walters wrote: > > > This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from > > > the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject > > > line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new > > > features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large > > > chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- > > > portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following > > > Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's > > > been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe > > > counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? > > > > > > Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do > > > a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, > > > then that's what we'll do. > > > > > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > > > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > > > alcohol). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -scott > > > > > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > > > I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky > > > > if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. > > > > Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > > > > call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite > > > > coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > > > > > way > > > > > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > > > > > trickle in. > > > > > -scott > > > > > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > > > > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > > > > > References > > > > > > > > > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > > > > > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > > > > > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From jdawgaz at cox.net Wed Dec 19 14:54:27 2007 From: jdawgaz at cox.net (jdawgaz at cox.net) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:54:27 -0500 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <5004c9f90712191444y6e80f3depd8928701331a0cc4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071219175427.RWRLO.63613.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> ohhh, I believe I was there once, for a perl "meeting" about 2 years ago. i just didn't remember the name of it. it was a cool place. duh. jerry ---- Ben Atkin wrote: > Four Peaks South is in Tempe, between Rural and McClintock, just south > of University. Four Peaks North is in Scottsdale. > > http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&q=four+peaks&near=Tempe,+AZ&fb=1&view=text&cd=1&hl=en&latlng=33419284,-111916460,14713383131037040592&ei=SJ1pR-qEN5uejQPUt5m7Aw > > It's not just a bar. It's a brewery with a restaurant. It's got good > food at reasonable prices. > > Ben > > On Dec 19, 2007 3:35 PM, wrote: > > when is this? > > i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in scottsdale or fountain hills? > > > > > > ---- Scott Walters wrote: > > > This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from > > > the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject > > > line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new > > > features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large > > > chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- > > > portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following > > > Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's > > > been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe > > > counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? > > > > > > Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do > > > a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, > > > then that's what we'll do. > > > > > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > > > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > > > alcohol). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -scott > > > > > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > > > I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky > > > > if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. > > > > Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > > > > call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite > > > > coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > > > > > way > > > > > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > > > > > trickle in. > > > > > -scott > > > > > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > > > > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > > > > > References > > > > > > > > > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > > > > > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > > > > > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > -- > Ben Atkin > ben at benatkin.com > http://www.benatkin.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Wed Dec 19 13:39:48 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:39:48 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219175112.1CYET.63557.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> References: <20071219212637.GJ6603@slowass.net> <20071219175112.1CYET.63557.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <20071219213948.GK6603@slowass.net> Sorry, missed the second question. Got carried away. I was talking about 7ish, tonight. First mentioned this yesterday but still short notice, I realize. -scott On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: > thanks. but that only got one of my questions. > > when is the meeting. > and yes, I would be interested in seeing what perl 5.10 has to offer. > also I am stuck using 5.8 ish for quite a while, except of course at home > > jerry > > ---- Scott Walters wrote: > > Hi jdawgaz, > > > > Four Peaks is a microbrewery, but considering how much fermentation > > capacity they have and how much beer the college students put away, > > I'm not sure "micro" really holds. It's in an old fish warehouse, > > a big old brick building, which was formerly part of the Pacific > > Creamery, dating back to the late 1800s or early 1900s. So, > > the atmosphere is good, or about the best you can do in Phoenix. > > Er, it's near downtown Tempe: > > > > They have a full bar, but a lot of people discover that they > > like the alcoholic beverage, currently lacking a distinctive name, > > that's made out of barley, hopped, and self-carbonated, rather > > than the stuff commonly known as "beer" which is actually > > rice, rice sugars, corn sugars, fermented to high gravity > > and watered down, barely hopped at all, and filled with > > chemical stabilzers to create artifical head rentention > > before being force carbonated like soda. > > > > http://fourpeaks.com > > > > (Hmm, if no one wants to talk about Perl on this list, maybe > > I can start a beer "discussion" if I just troll a bit...). > > > > -scott > > > > > > > > > > On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: > > > when is this? > > > i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in scottsdale or fountain hills? > > > > > > ---- Scott Walters wrote: > > > > This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from > > > > the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject > > > > line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new > > > > features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large > > > > chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- > > > > portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following > > > > Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's > > > > been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe > > > > counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? > > > > > > > > Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do > > > > a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, > > > > then that's what we'll do. > > > > > > > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > > > > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > > > > alcohol). > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > -scott > > > > > > > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > > > > I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves lucky > > > > > if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to talk > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" couts as half. > > > > > Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > > > > > call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your favorite > > > > > coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people on their > > > > > > way > > > > > > home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" messages > > > > > > trickle in. > > > > > > -scott > > > > > > On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > > > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > > > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > > > > > > > References > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > > > > > > 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > > > > > > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > > > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From derek at ninth.org Wed Dec 19 15:33:38 2007 From: derek at ninth.org (Derek Cline) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:33:38 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219213948.GK6603@slowass.net> References: <20071219212637.GJ6603@slowass.net> <20071219175112.1CYET.63557.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> <20071219213948.GK6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <6F6F7FCF-C6E9-422D-8ACB-2A9C4363E896@ninth.org> I can't make it tonight, sry guys. Happy Bday Perl! -=Derek On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:39 PM, Scott Walters wrote: > Sorry, missed the second question. Got carried away. I was talking > about 7ish, tonight. First mentioned this yesterday but still > short notice, I realize. > > -scott > > On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: >> thanks. but that only got one of my questions. >> >> when is the meeting. >> and yes, I would be interested in seeing what perl 5.10 has to offer. >> also I am stuck using 5.8 ish for quite a while, except of course >> at home >> >> jerry >> >> ---- Scott Walters wrote: >>> Hi jdawgaz, >>> >>> Four Peaks is a microbrewery, but considering how much fermentation >>> capacity they have and how much beer the college students put away, >>> I'm not sure "micro" really holds. It's in an old fish warehouse, >>> a big old brick building, which was formerly part of the Pacific >>> Creamery, dating back to the late 1800s or early 1900s. So, >>> the atmosphere is good, or about the best you can do in Phoenix. >>> Er, it's near downtown Tempe: >>> >>> They have a full bar, but a lot of people discover that they >>> like the alcoholic beverage, currently lacking a distinctive name, >>> that's made out of barley, hopped, and self-carbonated, rather >>> than the stuff commonly known as "beer" which is actually >>> rice, rice sugars, corn sugars, fermented to high gravity >>> and watered down, barely hopped at all, and filled with >>> chemical stabilzers to create artifical head rentention >>> before being force carbonated like soda. >>> >>> http://fourpeaks.com >>> >>> (Hmm, if no one wants to talk about Perl on this list, maybe >>> I can start a beer "discussion" if I just troll a bit...). >>> >>> -scott >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: >>>> when is this? >>>> i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in >>>> scottsdale or fountain hills? >>>> >>>> ---- Scott Walters wrote: >>>>> This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from >>>>> the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject >>>>> line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new >>>>> features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large >>>>> chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- >>>>> portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following >>>>> Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's >>>>> been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe >>>>> counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? >>>>> >>>>> Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do >>>>> a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, >>>>> then that's what we'll do. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks >>>>> South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% >>>>> alcohol). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> -scott >>>>> >>>>> On 0, Scott Walters wrote: >>>>>> I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves >>>>>> lucky >>>>>> if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to >>>>>> talk >>>>>> about it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" >>>>>> couts as half. >>>>>> Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can >>>>>> call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your >>>>>> favorite >>>>>> coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. >>>>>> >>>>>> -s >>>>>> >>>>>> On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters >>>>>>> <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people >>>>>>> on their >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" >>>>>>> messages >>>>>>> trickle in. >>>>>>> -scott >>>>>>> On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phoenix-pm mailing list >>>>>>> [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>>>>> [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> References >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org >>>>>>> 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com >>>>>>> 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>>>>> 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phoenix-pm mailing list >>>>>> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phoenix-pm mailing list >>>>> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Wed Dec 19 14:38:43 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:38:43 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Cancelled/Re: Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <6F6F7FCF-C6E9-422D-8ACB-2A9C4363E896@ninth.org> References: <20071219212637.GJ6603@slowass.net> <20071219175112.1CYET.63557.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> <20071219213948.GK6603@slowass.net> <6F6F7FCF-C6E9-422D-8ACB-2A9C4363E896@ninth.org> Message-ID: <20071219223843.GL6603@slowass.net> Hey everyone. Well, I didn't get the four RSVPs I was looking for. Regards to Ben and Bill who said they could make it. Let's try again soonish, next year. Anyone up for a Pheonix.PM (branded) ski trip to Flagstaff? -scott From benjamin.trussell at asu.edu Wed Dec 19 16:55:39 2007 From: benjamin.trussell at asu.edu (Benjamin Trussell) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:55:39 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <6F6F7FCF-C6E9-422D-8ACB-2A9C4363E896@ninth.org> References: <20071219212637.GJ6603@slowass.net><20071219175112.1CYET.63557.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net><20071219213948.GK6603@slowass.net> <6F6F7FCF-C6E9-422D-8ACB-2A9C4363E896@ninth.org> Message-ID: <037FF41095AD394DB28A3991559A0FB4051A9341@EX04.asurite.ad.asu.edu> I'm still finishing up the moving process, so I have to bow out for tonight. Ben T. > -----Original Message----- > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+benjamin.trussell=asu.edu at pm.org > [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+benjamin.trussell=asu.edu at pm.org] On Behalf > Of Derek Cline > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:34 PM > To: Scott Walters; phoenix-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks > South > > I can't make it tonight, sry guys. Happy Bday Perl! > > -=Derek > > > On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:39 PM, Scott Walters wrote: > > > Sorry, missed the second question. Got carried away. I was talking > > about 7ish, tonight. First mentioned this yesterday but still > > short notice, I realize. > > > > -scott > > > > On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: > >> thanks. but that only got one of my questions. > >> > >> when is the meeting. > >> and yes, I would be interested in seeing what perl 5.10 has to > offer. > >> also I am stuck using 5.8 ish for quite a while, except of course > >> at home > >> > >> jerry > >> > >> ---- Scott Walters wrote: > >>> Hi jdawgaz, > >>> > >>> Four Peaks is a microbrewery, but considering how much fermentation > >>> capacity they have and how much beer the college students put away, > >>> I'm not sure "micro" really holds. It's in an old fish warehouse, > >>> a big old brick building, which was formerly part of the Pacific > >>> Creamery, dating back to the late 1800s or early 1900s. So, > >>> the atmosphere is good, or about the best you can do in Phoenix. > >>> Er, it's near downtown Tempe: > >>> > >>> They have a full bar, but a lot of people discover that they > >>> like the alcoholic beverage, currently lacking a distinctive name, > >>> that's made out of barley, hopped, and self-carbonated, rather > >>> than the stuff commonly known as "beer" which is actually > >>> rice, rice sugars, corn sugars, fermented to high gravity > >>> and watered down, barely hopped at all, and filled with > >>> chemical stabilzers to create artifical head rentention > >>> before being force carbonated like soda. > >>> > >>> http://fourpeaks.com > >>> > >>> (Hmm, if no one wants to talk about Perl on this list, maybe > >>> I can start a beer "discussion" if I just troll a bit...). > >>> > >>> -scott > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 0, jdawgaz at cox.net wrote: > >>>> when is this? > >>>> i'm not a bar hopper, so what is four peaks south. is that up in > >>>> scottsdale or fountain hills? > >>>> > >>>> ---- Scott Walters wrote: > >>>>> This is for those of you who didn't actually open the email from > >>>>> the other day. I had suggested a meeting but not in the subject > >>>>> line. If I can get four RSVPs, I'll do a presentation on the new > >>>>> features just released in 5.10. As some of you know, a large > >>>>> chunk of _Perl 6 Now_ was Perl 6-ish features being retro- > >>>>> portedor back-fit or whatever to Perl 5, so I've been following > >>>>> Perl 5.10's development for most of the five years it's > >>>>> been in progress. I requested four RSVPs where a maybe > >>>>> counts as half and so far have 1.5. So, any takers? > >>>>> > >>>>> Conversely, if you can't make it but would still like to do > >>>>> a meeting, speak up, and if there are a few votes for that, > >>>>> then that's what we'll do. > >>>>> > >>>>> Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > >>>>> South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > >>>>> alcohol). > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> -scott > >>>>> > >>>>> On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > >>>>>> I wonder how many of us have jobs where we consider ourselves > >>>>>> lucky > >>>>>> if we get out at 6:30. Maybe we should have a 9pm meeting to > >>>>>> talk > >>>>>> about it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Oh well. I'm looking for four "yes" votes where a "maybe" > >>>>>> couts as half. > >>>>>> Otherwise we can try again after the holidays. And anyone can > >>>>>> call a meeting. Don't wait for me. Invite people to your > >>>>>> favorite > >>>>>> coffee shop after work. I'll probably go. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -s > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I might be able to come; depnds on how work goes. [aj] > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2007 3:14 PM, Scott Walters > >>>>>>> <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So far no other takers. 7ish makes sense. Catch people > >>>>>>> on their > >>>>>>> way > >>>>>>> home from work. Let's see if any more "I'm interested" > >>>>>>> messages > >>>>>>> trickle in. > >>>>>>> -scott > >>>>>>> On 0, Bill Lindley <[2] wlindley at wlindley.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Casey's sounds good... Wednesday, what time? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Phoenix-pm mailing list > >>>>>>> [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > >>>>>>> [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> References > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > >>>>>>> 2. mailto:wlindley at wlindley.com > >>>>>>> 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > >>>>>>> 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Phoenix-pm mailing list > >>>>>> Phoenix-pm at pm.org > >>>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Phoenix-pm mailing list > >>>>> Phoenix-pm at pm.org > >>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From pm at upt.org Wed Dec 19 17:59:47 2007 From: pm at upt.org (Lane Davis) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:59:47 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> References: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> <20071218221435.GZ6603@slowass.net> <20071219014735.GD6603@slowass.net> <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <20071219185947.eca392fa.pm@upt.org> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:05:08 -0700 Scott Walters wrote: > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > alcohol). > > Cheers, > -scott > I could go if we had it at 4 peaks in Scottsdale but the Tempe location is too far for me. I know sometimes the Tempe PM has their meets there, and it's a great brewpub -- I think the one in Scottsdale has the same brews, no? Cheers! -Lane From scott at illogics.org Wed Dec 19 16:55:50 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:55:50 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219185947.eca392fa.pm@upt.org> References: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> <20071218221435.GZ6603@slowass.net> <20071219014735.GD6603@slowass.net> <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> <20071219185947.eca392fa.pm@upt.org> Message-ID: <20071220005550.GM6603@slowass.net> Niether PM has many meetings anywhere these days. Usually (or for the past couple years before Brock took off for DC), Mill's End Cafe in downtown Tempe was the usual meeting spot, but we've done Scottsdale Community College, Nello's (north Scottsdale), Counter Culture Cafe (downtown Phoenix, and sadly defunct -- only 24 hour coffee shop in this place). I'd like to encourage you to call a meeting in Scottsdale, and Four Peaks up there would be an excellent pick. I could probably make it too. Calling meetings and finding compelling themes or presentations (or making other people present) is a pain and if you have any interest in having a meeting up there, I'd love to see you use that as an excuse to do that tedious work =) They don't know my name, but they recognize me up there. Frankly, I've given dozens of presentations over the years to Phoenix.PM, and my heart just isn't in it any more. And I've failed to find things other than presentations to entertain at meetings. Cheers, -scott On 0, Lane Davis wrote: > On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:05:08 -0700 Scott Walters wrote: > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > > alcohol). > > > > Cheers, > > -scott > > > > I could go if we had it at 4 peaks in Scottsdale but the Tempe location is > too far for me. I know sometimes the Tempe PM has their meets there, and > it's a great brewpub -- I think the one in Scottsdale has the same brews, > no? > > Cheers! > -Lane From scott at illogics.org Wed Dec 19 16:59:59 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:59:59 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071219185947.eca392fa.pm@upt.org> References: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> <20071218221435.GZ6603@slowass.net> <20071219014735.GD6603@slowass.net> <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> <20071219185947.eca392fa.pm@upt.org> Message-ID: <20071220005959.GN6603@slowass.net> Er, sorry, guilty of half-responding to emails. Yes, same beer in both locations. -scott On 0, Lane Davis wrote: > On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:05:08 -0700 Scott Walters wrote: > > Oh, and I'm thinking of moving the meeting to Four Peaks > > South to take advantage of their Imperial Porter (9% > > alcohol). > > > > Cheers, > > -scott > > > > I could go if we had it at 4 peaks in Scottsdale but the Tempe location is > too far for me. I know sometimes the Tempe PM has their meets there, and > it's a great brewpub -- I think the one in Scottsdale has the same brews, > no? > > Cheers! > -Lane From pm at upt.org Wed Dec 19 18:27:48 2007 From: pm at upt.org (Lane Davis) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:27:48 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Celebrate Perl's 20th birthday? Four Peaks South In-Reply-To: <20071220005550.GM6603@slowass.net> References: <20071218185651.GX6603@slowass.net> <47684E28.6060700@wlindley.com> <20071218221435.GZ6603@slowass.net> <20071219014735.GD6603@slowass.net> <20071219210508.GH6603@slowass.net> <20071219185947.eca392fa.pm@upt.org> <20071220005550.GM6603@slowass.net> Message-ID: <20071219192748.81523bba.pm@upt.org> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:55:50 -0700 Scott Walters wrote: > Frankly, I've given dozens of presentations over the years to > Phoenix.PM, and my heart just isn't in it any more. And I've > failed to find things other than presentations to entertain > at meetings. > Trying to organize perl developers is like herding cats. I'd love to hear your presentation.. if it's at the Tempe four peaks then I'll call a maybe :-) -Lane From wlindley at wlindley.com Thu Dec 20 05:42:30 2007 From: wlindley at wlindley.com (Bill Lindley) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:42:30 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Programming is hard, let's go Scripting... (LWall) Message-ID: <476A7146.3000701@wlindley.com> Stumbled across this good read: http://perl.com/lpt/a/997 Also interesting that my first programming job, like Larry's, was in BASIC-PLUS on a PDP-11 running RSTS. (1980, and I was 15.) \\/ From andy at petdance.com Thu Dec 20 09:04:19 2007 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:04:19 -0600 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Programming is hard, let's go Scripting... (LWall) In-Reply-To: <476A7146.3000701@wlindley.com> References: <476A7146.3000701@wlindley.com> Message-ID: <0137BF6E-1D95-48A9-97BA-04796FE1C36B@petdance.com> On Dec 20, 2007, at 7:42 AM, Bill Lindley wrote: > Stumbled across this good read: > > http://perl.com/lpt/a/997 However, for the counterpoint, see http://xoa.petdance.com/Stop_saying_%22script%22 xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From scott at illogics.org Tue Dec 25 16:33:27 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:33:27 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] virtual presentation for ya'll: All about blessed stash objects: better living through evil Message-ID: <20071226003326.GB15100@slowass.net> As many of you are aware, I have a fixation with having my object instance data look like $foo rather than $self->{foo} for various reasons (working with a non-OO programmer frequently needing to move working code into OO, sometimes needing to move it back out, hate typing $self->{} over and over again, etc). I wrote about this particular trick before but I was waxing poetic about it. I tried to make more of an article about it. The techniques here, while possibly fun, are not recommended for casual use =) http://use.perl.org/~scrottie/journal/35205 Reproduced in its entirety (minus some formatting and typography): Typically, when you write an object in Perl, you combine two disjunct things: data, as stored in a hash, and methods (code), stored in a package. bless makes this association. Any reference type can be blessed, but these references may only be blessed into a package. Here's the trick: packages are data types in Perl, one of the 15 odd types, and you can take a reference to them: \ %{"foo::}. This means that packages can be blessed into packages. This trick involves resurrecting some of the oldest datastructures in Perl, globs and stashes, for modern, OO purposes. A whole lot of fun ensues. Okay, I'm going to stop calling packages packages; they're created with the package statement, but they're better known as a stash, or symbol table hash. Like hashes, stashes contain data of various types, indexed by name. When you don't use my to declare your variables, variables are also stored in the package, as was the way in the olden days. Functions declared like sub foo { ... }, the common way, also get stored in the stash. Normal function calls and normal method calls (like foo() and $ob->foo, and unlike $hash{value}->()) all operate on stashes. Newly constructed blessed stash objects are empty of methods. Code references get copied in, initializing them as a copy of another object's code. This is a "prototype based object system", as is JavaScript's. JavaScript objects are hashes, with the key being the method name and the value being code. Since each object has (indeed, is) it's very own stash, we can use define our methods in terms of closures. Here's some code to create one of these puppies, and to create a method function that will neatly stick closures into the stash for you. This is old code I've posted before; sorry for the dup. I'm trying to turn this into a more accessible article. sub new { # object setup (evil, run) my $type = shift; my %opts = @_; my $package = $type . sprintf '::X%09d', our $counter++; do { no strict 'refs'; push @{$package.'::ISA'}, $type; }; my $self = bless \%{$package.'::'}, $package; sub method ($&); do { no warnings 'redefine'; *method = sub ($&) { my $name = shift; *{"$package\::$name"} = shift; }; }; ... } Then inside there, you can write methods like so: my $arg; method foo => sub { my $self = shift; $arg++; $self->avast_ye(); }; $arg is a lexical variable that the method foo closes over. Each time new gets called, a new stash is created, and a new $arg gets created, and a new coderef attached to that new $arg gets created and rammed into that new stash. New everything, each go -- that's the trick. When you write "package" in your code, you're defining a new stash. They also autovivicate (spontaneously spring into existence by their mere mention). That looks like %{"foo::"}. Yes, that's similar to a computed hash name (and also requires no strict 'refs') but the name ends in a double colon. my $package = $type . sprintf '::X%09d', our $counter++; -- this computes a new package name based on the existing one plus a serial number. do { no strict 'refs'; push @{$package.'::ISA'}, $type; }; -- this forces the new package to inherit from the base one, so that it in turn inherits what it inherits. my $self = bless \%{$package.'::'}, $package; -- this creates the object as this new stash blessed into itself. sub method ($&); do { no warnings 'redefine'; *method = sub ($&) { my $name = shift; *{"$package\::$name"} = shift; }; }; -- prototype the method function to take as args a scalar and code and define it was stuffing that code into the stash under the given name. That's the glob syntax. Stashes contain globs. Only references may be assigned into globs, and by assigning in a code reference, a new method is created. Stashes a derivative of hashes, but rather than containing arbitrary types, they only contain typeglobs, which may in turn contain any other type. This way, you can both a $foo and a @foo, as a stash in turn can hold one of every other type. Instance data is then hidden away in lexical variables where subclasses can't see it. That's not always what's desired. In a blessed hash, you could write $self->{foo} to get at a data item. Since stashes only contain globs, you'd have to instead write ${ $self->{foo} }. To access an array stored in a normal blessed hash, you'd write @{ $self->{foo} }, which is the same for blessed stashes. Everything is stored by reference, including scalars, in blessed stashes. Data::Alias can make this a lot easier: use Data::Alias; method foo => sub { my $self = shift; alias my @foo = @{ $self->{foo} }; push @foo, @_; }; alias gives you fully read-write variables that are aliases to data stored in the object. Data stored in $self is actually stored the same way that local data is stored. Only the syntax is different. Before you get started, a few caveats: methods built out of closures (which access instance data simply as $foo rather than $self->{foo}) take a lot more memory than normal methods. Stashes don't get garbage collected at all; data stored in them is considered "global", and this data includes references to the closures and references to lexical variables. It probably contains circular references. You may think about writing a DESTROY routine to tear everything down. -scott