From scott at illogics.org Mon Jan 2 01:32:15 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 09:32:15 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl 5's switch, smart-match, and say Message-ID: <20060102093215.GG1621@illogics.org> Hi Perl Mongers! For those of you who don't follow use.perl.org (or p5p): "Perl 5 turns 18 and is given some lovely birthday presents, such as Perl 6's switch, smart match and say. Constants get smaller, faster and cheaper. So with all that and more, it's probably time for 5.9.3 to escape from the lab." I watched this all unfold and it was most impressive. I for one am much looking forward to switch and smart matching in Perl 5. Cheers, -scott P.S.: To the two of you I've been meaning to hook up with for a beer, I suck. I'm sorry. I'll try to get my ass in gear, but it's so hard for me to break my routine. From scott at illogics.org Mon Jan 2 15:34:31 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:34:31 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] P5P: Everyone's working too hard Message-ID: <20060102233431.GJ1621@illogics.org> ----- Forwarded message from Nicholas Clark ----- Return-Path: perl5-porters-return-108110-scott=slowass.net at perl.org X-Original-To: scott at slowass.net Delivered-To: scott at slowass.net Received: from lists.develooper.com (x6.develooper.com [63.251.223.186]) by slowass.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D8C8553A7 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:23:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 11732 invoked by uid 514); 2 Jan 2006 23:15:20 -0000 Mailing-List: contact perl5-porters-help at perl.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: X-List-Archive: List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list perl5-porters at perl.org Received: (qmail 11709 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 23:15:19 -0000 Delivered-To: perl5-porters at perl.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: la.mx.develooper.com Received-SPF: pass (x1.develooper.com: domain of nick at flirble.org designates 195.40.6.20 as permitted sender) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:15:10 +0000 From: Nicholas Clark To: perl5-porters at perl.org Subject: Everyone's working too hard Message-ID: <20060102231510.GF616 at plum.flirble.org> Mail-Followup-To: perl5-porters at perl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i X-Organisation: Tetrachloromethane Sender: Nicholas Clark Status: RO Content-Length: 663 Lines: 26 Year Number of changes on blead 2005 2393 2004 1175 2003 2489 2002 3577 2001 4605 2000 2539 1999 1062 1998 1131 Gah. There were more than double the changes in 2005 than in 2004. No wonder I'm having fun keeping up. What came as a surprise is that even in the quiet year of 2004 there was more activity than back in 1998 or 1999. This is not what I'd expected, given the size of the monthly p5p mboxes archived on xray: http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/ (To get the change numbers I used p4 changes //depot/perl | grep -c ' on 2005/' so there is a possibility of errors if the first part of the description matches) Nicholas Clark ----- End forwarded message ----- From perlguy at earthlink.net Wed Jan 4 10:49:57 2006 From: perlguy at earthlink.net (Douglas E. Miles) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:49:57 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Part Time Job Opportunity Message-ID: <43BC18D5.4000302@earthlink.net> Hey all! As you may recall, I'm now teaching at The Art Institute of Phoenix. They've asked me to teach a new class next quarter, but I don't have time to do it. The class is "Principles of Programming" You need to have at least a Bachelor's degree. They need someone as soon as possible. If you are interested send your resume to: cmcghee at aii.edu Chris McGhee Academic Director Game Art & Design Visual Game Programming Interactive Media Design Art Institute of Phoenix 2233 West Dunlap Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85021 1-602-331-7516 Also, copy me at perlguy at earthlink.net so I know if there is interest. If you are a member of PLUG, would you mind forwarding this to that list (if you won't get flamed for it)? Also, feel free to pass this on to anyone who might be interested who is not on this list. Thanks! From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Mon Jan 9 10:31:53 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:31:53 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid@thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] Message-ID: <20060109183153.GJ19724@thelackthereof.org> Is it me, or did this not go through the first time? This time I'll CC it to someone and we'll see if it works. --Brock ----- Forwarded message from Brock ----- Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:51:14 -0700 From: Brock To: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: fixed wiki User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Greetings all, I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision control set up to easily roll-back pages. I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you are of interest to us! How is everyone's new-year going? --Brock ----- End forwarded message ----- From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Sun Jan 8 08:51:14 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:51:14 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] fixed wiki Message-ID: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> Greetings all, I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision control set up to easily roll-back pages. I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you are of interest to us! How is everyone's new-year going? --Brock From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Mon Jan 9 21:33:02 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:33:02 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid@thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] In-Reply-To: <20060109183153.GJ19724@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060109183153.GJ19724@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060110053302.GL19724@thelackthereof.org> It was me :) --Brock On 2006.01.09.11.31, Brock wrote: | | Is it me, or did this not go through the first time? This time I'll CC | it to someone and we'll see if it works. | | --Brock | | ----- Forwarded message from Brock ----- | | Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:51:14 -0700 | From: Brock | To: phoenix-pm at pm.org | Subject: fixed wiki | User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i | | | Greetings all, | | I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info | might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page | has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision | control set up to easily roll-back pages. | | I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That | means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a | presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you | are of interest to us! | | How is everyone's new-year going? | | --Brock | | | ----- End forwarded message ----- | _______________________________________________ | Phoenix-pm mailing list | Phoenix-pm at pm.org | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Mon Jan 9 23:25:19 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:25:19 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid@thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] In-Reply-To: <20060109183153.GJ19724@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060109183153.GJ19724@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060110072519.GM12334@illogics.org> Hi Brock, Certainly didn't see this... I'll get to the Wiki RSN, just had some stuff I was behind on. We're not going to get speakers unless someone in the crowd writes a CPAN module they're really happy about or else we put together a symposium, such as "my OO shortcuts", or "the templating system I made last summer", or something like that. I did agree to do a "Making of Perl 6 Now" talk but I'd really rather not take up more than 1/3rd of the time. We really need multiple topics and things going on. Think three ring circus. -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > > Is it me, or did this not go through the first time? This time I'll CC > it to someone and we'll see if it works. > > --Brock > > ----- Forwarded message from Brock ----- > > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:51:14 -0700 > From: Brock > To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > Subject: fixed wiki > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > > > Greetings all, > > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision > control set up to easily roll-back pages. > > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you > are of interest to us! > > How is everyone's new-year going? > > --Brock > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Mon Jan 9 23:26:10 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:26:10 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] fixed wiki In-Reply-To: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060110072610.GN12334@illogics.org> Oh, *now* it's gone threw... By the way... did anyone else notice that Sprint's peering connections were gone for a good part of the afternoon? -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > > Greetings all, > > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision > control set up to easily roll-back pages. > > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you > are of interest to us! > > How is everyone's new-year going? > > --Brock > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Tue Jan 10 07:53:05 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:53:05 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix off the 'net yesterday afternoon In-Reply-To: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> Hi all, There's no mention of this affecting TCP/IP, but the times and carrier coincide: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/09/sprint.outage/index.html I don't know about you guys, but for a few hours yesterday afternoon, I couldn't get anywhere. All of my traceroutes hit a wall 8 or so hops in -- where Sprint was peered. So I took a nap. -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > > Greetings all, > > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision > control set up to easily roll-back pages. > > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you > are of interest to us! > > How is everyone's new-year going? > > --Brock > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Jan 10 08:19:18 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:19:18 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix off the 'net yesterday afternoon In-Reply-To: <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060110161918.GM19724@thelackthereof.org> In fact thats what went screwy with my email, which is on the sprint network. Diagnosed it as a routing loop, and reported to sprint... but the cut cable explains it in a bit more detail :) --Brock On 2006.01.10.15.53, Scott Walters wrote: | Hi all, | | There's no mention of this affecting TCP/IP, but the times and carrier | coincide: | | http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/09/sprint.outage/index.html | | I don't know about you guys, but for a few hours yesterday afternoon, | I couldn't get anywhere. All of my traceroutes hit a wall 8 or so | hops in -- where Sprint was peered. So I took a nap. | | -scott | | On 0, Brock wrote: | > | > Greetings all, | > | > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info | > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page | > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision | > control set up to easily roll-back pages. | > | > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That | > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a | > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you | > are of interest to us! | > | > How is everyone's new-year going? | > | > --Brock | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Phoenix-pm mailing list | > Phoenix-pm at pm.org | > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From bwmetz at att.com Tue Jan 10 08:36:31 2006 From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WCS) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:36:31 -0600 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid@thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B3457690473367011402C6@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Didn't you hear...Wringling Bros. aren't doing a three ring any more. B -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org]On Behalf Of Scott Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:25 AM To: Brock Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid at thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] Hi Brock, Certainly didn't see this... I'll get to the Wiki RSN, just had some stuff I was behind on. We're not going to get speakers unless someone in the crowd writes a CPAN module they're really happy about or else we put together a symposium, such as "my OO shortcuts", or "the templating system I made last summer", or something like that. I did agree to do a "Making of Perl 6 Now" talk but I'd really rather not take up more than 1/3rd of the time. We really need multiple topics and things going on. Think three ring circus. -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > > Is it me, or did this not go through the first time? This time I'll CC > it to someone and we'll see if it works. > > --Brock > > ----- Forwarded message from Brock ----- > > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:51:14 -0700 > From: Brock > To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > Subject: fixed wiki > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > > > Greetings all, > > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision > control set up to easily roll-back pages. > > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you > are of interest to us! > > How is everyone's new-year going? > > --Brock > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From bwmetz at att.com Tue Jan 10 08:35:49 2006 From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WCS) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:35:49 -0600 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] fixed wiki Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B3457690473367011402BF@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Think I heard that Sprint had a large trunk down between here and Utah. -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Scott Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:26 AM To: Brock Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] fixed wiki Oh, *now* it's gone threw... By the way... did anyone else notice that Sprint's peering connections were gone for a good part of the afternoon? -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > > Greetings all, > > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision > control set up to easily roll-back pages. > > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you > are of interest to us! > > How is everyone's new-year going? > > --Brock > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Fri Jan 13 03:59:47 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:59:47 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] phoenix.pm.org update In-Reply-To: <20060110161918.GM19724@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> <20060110161918.GM19724@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060113115947.GJ12334@illogics.org> Hi everyone, The Website, http://phoenix.pm.org, is back in CVS. PerlLinks was still spammy but I fished out a good copy from the old CVS repository. The Wiki now adds rel="nofollow" to most tags. When I say most, I'm refering to the fact that a single regex cannot parse HTML, but you'd have to be at least a little bit clever to defeat it. But that's not all. Saving pages is now password protected. I'm sick to death of Wiki spam and there's no diff.cgi on there, and I don't want to have to remember to police this Wiki besides PerlDesignPatterns. The password is 'brock2'. But wait, there's more! http://phoenix.pm.org/rss.cgi is a cheezeball RSS 0.91 feed that (currently) only tells you when a page was last edited. Here's how that's useful: if PerlCalendar was recently edited, someone probably posted a meeting announcement, and you should pop on over to the site to read it. If you happen to find spam in the Wiki, please do report it to me. Make a page for yourself. Update the meeting ideas with requests. Do something useful with your corpse while you still can. Cheers, -scott From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Fri Jan 13 08:28:51 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:28:51 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] phoenix.pm.org update In-Reply-To: <20060113115947.GJ12334@illogics.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> <20060110161918.GM19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060113115947.GJ12334@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060113162851.GA23197@thelackthereof.org> On 2006.01.13.11.59, Scott Walters wrote: | But that's not all. Saving pages is now password protected. I'm sick | to death of Wiki spam and there's no diff.cgi on there, and I don't | want to have to remember to police this Wiki besides PerlDesignPatterns. | The password is 'brock2'. Did you see my text-based captchca thingie? When you save a page on my wiki it asks something like "Name a four-letter programming language that starts with a 'P' and ends in an 'l'", or "This old man came _____ home". Get the answer and you can save the page. Try it out on my SandBox, http://thelackthereof.org/wiki.pl/SandBox | But wait, there's more! http://phoenix.pm.org/rss.cgi is a cheezeball | RSS 0.91 feed that (currently) only tells you when a page was last | edited. Here's how that's useful: if PerlCalendar was recently | edited, someone probably posted a meeting announcement, and you should | pop on over to the site to read it. Awesome --Brock From scott at illogics.org Fri Jan 13 12:19:55 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:19:55 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] phoenix.pm.org update/THE PASSWORD IS... In-Reply-To: <20060113162851.GA23197@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> <20060110161918.GM19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060113115947.GJ12334@illogics.org> <20060113162851.GA23197@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060113201954.GL12334@illogics.org> Hi Brock, Not entirely a bad idea, a text-based captcha, but in this case, it's humans who are manually spamming these things -- apparently often low cost but English reading and writing foreign labor -- so I don't want any humans to have access except the group and people who email me. The Wiki is updated extremely infrequently or never by people outside this group and by very few people within this group. But all of this is of course still up for debate. This is just my reasoning so far. -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > On 2006.01.13.11.59, Scott Walters wrote: > | But that's not all. Saving pages is now password protected. I'm sick > | to death of Wiki spam and there's no diff.cgi on there, and I don't > | want to have to remember to police this Wiki besides PerlDesignPatterns. > | The password is 'brock2'. > > Did you see my text-based captchca thingie? When you save a page on my > wiki it asks something like "Name a four-letter programming language > that starts with a 'P' and ends in an 'l'", or "This old man came _____ > home". Get the answer and you can save the page. Try it out on my > SandBox, http://thelackthereof.org/wiki.pl/SandBox > > | But wait, there's more! http://phoenix.pm.org/rss.cgi is a cheezeball > | RSS 0.91 feed that (currently) only tells you when a page was last > | edited. Here's how that's useful: if PerlCalendar was recently > | edited, someone probably posted a meeting announcement, and you should > | pop on over to the site to read it. > > Awesome > > --Brock > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Fri Jan 13 13:47:02 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:47:02 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] phoenix.pm.org update/THE PASSWORD IS... In-Reply-To: <20060113201954.GL12334@illogics.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> <20060110161918.GM19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060113115947.GJ12334@illogics.org> <20060113162851.GA23197@thelackthereof.org> <20060113201954.GL12334@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060113214702.GD23197@thelackthereof.org> Well I think the password method is good for the Phoenix.PM wiki. But just in the way of discussion -- I was having daily spam, done by humans I believe, on my own site before implementing this. But the questions I chose are either technical or perhaps american-centric (like the "This old man..." fill-in-the-blank). While the spammers may read/write english, that is only one part of being able to answer the questions. The questions themselves can be domain-specific. Also, on an on-topic note, this QuestionAsker extension is written in Perl for Oddmuse. The question database is a hash of static strings mapped to subrefs. So the answers can be complicated. For example: "How many lives does a cat have?" => sub { shift =~ /9|nine/i }, "Tell me any number between 1 and 10 (inclusive)" => sub { $a = shift; ($a > 0 && $a < 11) # maybe should convert from english->int ? }, which is all sorts of fun. Perhaps more fun would be automatically-generated questions too :) --Brock On 2006.01.13.20.19, Scott Walters wrote: | Hi Brock, | | Not entirely a bad idea, a text-based captcha, but in this case, it's | humans who are manually spamming these things -- apparently often low | cost but English reading and writing foreign labor -- so I don't want | any humans to have access except the group and people who email me. | The Wiki is updated extremely infrequently or never by people | outside this group and by very few people within this group. | But all of this is of course still up for debate. This is just my | reasoning so far. | | -scott | | On 0, Brock wrote: | > On 2006.01.13.11.59, Scott Walters wrote: | > | But that's not all. Saving pages is now password protected. I'm sick | > | to death of Wiki spam and there's no diff.cgi on there, and I don't | > | want to have to remember to police this Wiki besides PerlDesignPatterns. | > | The password is 'brock2'. | > | > Did you see my text-based captchca thingie? When you save a page on my | > wiki it asks something like "Name a four-letter programming language | > that starts with a 'P' and ends in an 'l'", or "This old man came _____ | > home". Get the answer and you can save the page. Try it out on my | > SandBox, http://thelackthereof.org/wiki.pl/SandBox | > | > | But wait, there's more! http://phoenix.pm.org/rss.cgi is a cheezeball | > | RSS 0.91 feed that (currently) only tells you when a page was last | > | edited. Here's how that's useful: if PerlCalendar was recently | > | edited, someone probably posted a meeting announcement, and you should | > | pop on over to the site to read it. | > | > Awesome | > | > --Brock | > _______________________________________________ | > Phoenix-pm mailing list | > Phoenix-pm at pm.org | > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Fri Jan 13 22:49:48 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 06:49:48 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] phoenix.pm.org update/THE PASSWORD IS... In-Reply-To: <20060113214702.GD23197@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060108165113.GG19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060110155305.GP12334@illogics.org> <20060110161918.GM19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060113115947.GJ12334@illogics.org> <20060113162851.GA23197@thelackthereof.org> <20060113201954.GL12334@illogics.org> <20060113214702.GD23197@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060114064948.GP12334@illogics.org> First thoughts on pair programming: * Overhead such as inststalling modules and waiting for mad swapping to subside wastes twice as much human time * Impossible to stay on _task_ Try APress again, Brock. Even though their form crashed lsat time. If it still crashes, catch me online and I'll dig up an email addresses for you. Oh, and here's that link I promised you -- the pocket data projector. http://www.chait.net/index.php?p=572&page=1&stuff_to_buy -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > > Well I think the password method is good for the Phoenix.PM wiki. But > just in the way of discussion -- I was having daily spam, done by humans > I believe, on my own site before implementing this. But the questions I > chose are either technical or perhaps american-centric (like the "This > old man..." fill-in-the-blank). While the spammers may read/write > english, that is only one part of being able to answer the questions. > The questions themselves can be domain-specific. > > Also, on an on-topic note, this QuestionAsker extension is written in > Perl for Oddmuse. The question database is a hash of static strings > mapped to subrefs. So the answers can be complicated. For example: > > "How many lives does a cat have?" => sub { shift =~ /9|nine/i }, > > "Tell me any number between 1 and 10 (inclusive)" => sub { > $a = shift; > ($a > 0 && $a < 11) # maybe should convert from english->int ? > }, > > which is all sorts of fun. Perhaps more fun would be > automatically-generated questions too :) > > --Brock > > On 2006.01.13.20.19, Scott Walters wrote: > | Hi Brock, > | > | Not entirely a bad idea, a text-based captcha, but in this case, it's > | humans who are manually spamming these things -- apparently often low > | cost but English reading and writing foreign labor -- so I don't want > | any humans to have access except the group and people who email me. > | The Wiki is updated extremely infrequently or never by people > | outside this group and by very few people within this group. > | But all of this is of course still up for debate. This is just my > | reasoning so far. > | > | -scott > | > | On 0, Brock wrote: > | > On 2006.01.13.11.59, Scott Walters wrote: > | > | But that's not all. Saving pages is now password protected. I'm sick > | > | to death of Wiki spam and there's no diff.cgi on there, and I don't > | > | want to have to remember to police this Wiki besides PerlDesignPatterns. > | > | The password is 'brock2'. > | > > | > Did you see my text-based captchca thingie? When you save a page on my > | > wiki it asks something like "Name a four-letter programming language > | > that starts with a 'P' and ends in an 'l'", or "This old man came _____ > | > home". Get the answer and you can save the page. Try it out on my > | > SandBox, http://thelackthereof.org/wiki.pl/SandBox > | > > | > | But wait, there's more! http://phoenix.pm.org/rss.cgi is a cheezeball > | > | RSS 0.91 feed that (currently) only tells you when a page was last > | > | edited. Here's how that's useful: if PerlCalendar was recently > | > | edited, someone probably posted a meeting announcement, and you should > | > | pop on over to the site to read it. > | > > | > Awesome > | > > | > --Brock > | > _______________________________________________ > | > Phoenix-pm mailing list > | > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > | > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From intertwingled at qwest.net Mon Jan 16 11:55:20 2006 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (Anthony R. Nemmer) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:55:20 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [Fwd: [SECURITY] [DSA 943-1] New Perl packages fix arbitrary code execution] Message-ID: <43CBFA28.4080100@qwest.net> First I've heard of this.... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [SECURITY] [DSA 943-1] New Perl packages fix arbitrary code execution Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:27:16 -0600 (CST) Resent-From: list at murphy.debian.org (Mailing List Manager) Resent-CC: recipient list not shown: ; Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:23:36 +0100 (CET) From: Martin Schulze Reply-To: listadmin at SECURITYFOCUS.COM To: bugtraq at securityfocus.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Debian Security Advisory DSA 943-1 security at debian.org http://www.debian.org/security/ Martin Schulze January 16th, 2006 http://www.debian.org/security/faq - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Package : perl Vulnerability : integer overflow Problem type : local (remote) Debian-specific: no CVE ID : CVE-2005-3962 Debian Bug : 341542 Jack Louis discovered an integer overflow in Perl, Larry Wall's Practical Extraction and Report Language, that allows attackers to overwrite arbitrary memory and possibly execute arbitrary code via specially crafted content that is passed to vulnerable format strings of third party software. The old stable distribution (woody) does not seem to be affected by this problem. For the stable distribution (sarge) this problem has been fixed in version 5.8.4-8sarge3. For the unstable distribution (sid) this problem has been fixed in version 5.8.7-9. We recommend that you upgrade your perl packages. Upgrade Instructions - -------------------- wget url will fetch the file for you dpkg -i file.deb will install the referenced file. If you are using the apt-get package manager, use the line for sources.list as given below: apt-get update will update the internal database apt-get upgrade will install corrected packages You may use an automated update by adding the resources from the footer to the proper configuration. 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a55373a563d2546d1286f7fb4de11710 Sun Sparc architecture: http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb Size/MD5 checksum: 582422 8ec81b47b82fdb3602c42c6fa0559793 http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb Size/MD5 checksum: 1038 ebbf066210ca33b4282cf347cc771cca http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb Size/MD5 checksum: 3547312 a609080c2c788fd382f970c21b22d9e7 http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb Size/MD5 checksum: 775666 0e0a56ce4bb224e7bc96ea68ac741d8b http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb Size/MD5 checksum: 3840718 e9ded2d7974b51fbf7933b455b45b604 http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb Size/MD5 checksum: 31034 8cf1966a2428838c58f0fab423b8e16a These files will probably be moved into the stable distribution on its next update. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For apt-get: deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main For dpkg-ftp: ftp://security.debian.org/debian-security dists/stable/updates/main Mailing list: debian-security-announce at lists.debian.org Package info: `apt-cache show ' and http://packages.debian.org/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDy7p4W5ql+IAeqTIRAggQAJ9QzFo5QmujczEPZvsdb6HJtLNx3ACgn+zo uVe4ZQyXLpXGZ44f+iUjBAw= =Exq6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! From scott at illogics.org Mon Jan 16 12:14:26 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:14:26 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [Fwd: [SECURITY] [DSA 943-1] New Perl packages fix Message-ID: <20060116201426.GP13073@illogics.org> Hi Anthony, There are a lot better descriptions of the problem floating around. Basically, if you do... printf "%${num}s", $string; ... where both $num and $string are user-supplied, they can put exploit code in $string and trigger an integer wrap bug using $num by passing a very large value. Very few programs do this. The Syslog (::IForgetWhat) module does this. It's used by several well known programs, including WebMin. The short of it is if you're using some program written in Perl and you're not sure exactly how it handles user supplied data, you probably want to upgrade. But if you're just thinking of applications you've written yourself, unless you're using that one Syslog module, you're fine. -scott On 0, "Anthony R. Nemmer" wrote: > > > First I've heard of this.... > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [SECURITY] [DSA 943-1] New Perl packages fix arbitrary code > execution > Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:27:16 -0600 (CST) > Resent-From: list at murphy.debian.org (Mailing List Manager) > Resent-CC: recipient list not shown: ; > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:23:36 +0100 (CET) > From: Martin Schulze > Reply-To: listadmin at SECURITYFOCUS.COM > To: bugtraq at securityfocus.com > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Debian Security Advisory DSA 943-1 security at debian.org > http://www.debian.org/security/ Martin Schulze > January 16th, 2006 http://www.debian.org/security/faq > - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Package : perl > Vulnerability : integer overflow > Problem type : local (remote) > Debian-specific: no > CVE ID : CVE-2005-3962 > Debian Bug : 341542 > > Jack Louis discovered an integer overflow in Perl, Larry Wall's > Practical Extraction and Report Language, that allows attackers to > overwrite arbitrary memory and possibly execute arbitrary code via > specially crafted content that is passed to vulnerable format strings > of third party software. > > The old stable distribution (woody) does not seem to be affected by > this problem. > > For the stable distribution (sarge) this problem has been fixed in > version 5.8.4-8sarge3. > > For the unstable distribution (sid) this problem has been fixed in > version 5.8.7-9. > > We recommend that you upgrade your perl packages. > > > Upgrade Instructions > - -------------------- > > wget url > will fetch the file for you > dpkg -i file.deb > will install the referenced file. > > If you are using the apt-get package manager, use the line for > sources.list as given below: > > apt-get update > will update the internal database > apt-get upgrade > will install corrected packages > > You may use an automated update by adding the resources from the > footer to the proper configuration. > > > Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 alias sarge > - -------------------------------- > > Source archives: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3.dsc > Size/MD5 checksum: 738 88756767017d421351e02a5226457d2b > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3.diff.gz > Size/MD5 checksum: 87851 05a72533cd5bde5fce6987cf39041236 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4.orig.tar.gz > Size/MD5 checksum: 12094233 912050a9cb6b0f415b76ba56052fb4cf > > Architecture independent components: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libcgi-fast-perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_all.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 38332 7d47e456c2bd7c83312bb1ad17738284 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-doc_5.8.4-8sarge3_all.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 7053372 47e14a8f071c506916e40713e8cc81f7 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-modules_5.8.4-8sarge3_all.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 2178216 4823e4985f8cf1b4af78ec26afbc0102 > > Alpha architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_alpha.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 805438 0e3cb34c8c093515c7b33fa60a493899 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_alpha.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1040 f82603c65e3f3def2356962111e411c2 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_alpha.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3901974 f744b7b871a8071cb403a74d665b7778 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_alpha.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 874714 26e450d8f0375e5a3545c2988205cee4 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_alpha.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 4133098 cf772af3fa70e0cf320b43964aeab61e > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_alpha.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 37080 d3863820eaebcbbbe59775a1874da2eb > > AMD64 architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_amd64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 605284 c6e097980b5dec33bb340e8f4c76de19 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_amd64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1030 08b7c6bb0bb58a02a254826cfee27e33 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_amd64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3834144 e7f33d48427be694e994c18f7321d9e0 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_amd64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 791678 bdbedf5f0e3efb20181a0665d791c6de > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_amd64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3934814 ed946cdd2984a538b60acbd034264947 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_amd64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 32852 ae96f1f115505ab983ed389dee240a83 > > ARM architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_arm.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 613158 30cd5528198d49208274e50e60611b0a > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_arm.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1026 fc64aa8b67f46fcccb6d85db7cb242ad > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_arm.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3132808 226a69d4fa30d1e0a40f4d761826c230 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_arm.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 737524 b4aaf84bd60fef147d1131c5ffbc6a0a > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_arm.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3719460 8e8d12058f9f7fb9e153d4c3ff79d0f4 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_arm.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 29880 faa9dc0401eb667e202e12f2d2cf9643 > > Intel IA-32 architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_i386.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 567048 8488e40844019795a1179a2b9a74f172 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_i386.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 508818 66f7900d63a2efb0a787e83186613a98 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_i386.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3237948 5841d065408022fb2fe0e75febc02d9d > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_i386.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 751956 b77e882ed9558a09398c2fba334e5b4a > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_i386.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3735798 bb034b2e756aa35cd5fa9e01a0485b13 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_i386.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 31696 d2c9b1fbc10e89e7868e16fb4c97700d > > Intel IA-64 architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_ia64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 866818 3419fdaff605b7ddd485a205c1dd1661 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_ia64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1030 c41835cc5573c0e53610e79766b88d11 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_ia64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 4027834 28436948c3dd298ad38b3c46f69f2cb4 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_ia64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1046750 1a70c30abb13449d00a2b34c17c79f17 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_ia64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 4534216 49cdfeada4c40365e2392a768739d706 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_ia64.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 50104 770378e5ac290729b2943d956cad9c57 > > HP Precision architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_hppa.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 654878 5f8ad153b0a27e9190e5b754e8174ee7 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_hppa.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1032 4de6d72cf1f61d6754475a0dd1fe4561 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_hppa.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3918544 0f83d76853299d10f98842b15b8e7db1 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_hppa.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 867566 cb3a0eb20c71bd8017853de9ea838f7f > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_hppa.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3911882 fd55c787eb9f30f2e143fac490ea4198 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_hppa.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 34484 e3df6ab97d5e68cbb6346240e4532efc > > Motorola 680x0 architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_m68k.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 457778 f25f1ebbbb4a5ce7b7a4a79c6256987e > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_m68k.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1040 9882ea5db94e569a35209a66c74bb390 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_m68k.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3815032 321dd2b80abad424b678f260d18f323a > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_m68k.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 692196 733bfa10857d842bd907f408b03a8b3d > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_m68k.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3008672 81a0d0613ebe7b9affcd56174e1f955c > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_m68k.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 27934 68de12bace4cf3de7a339b25119b1611 > > Big endian MIPS architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_mips.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 657066 7e2c9980c630b3aa1e60348a4998665a > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_mips.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1032 3da5c1e82b6194beac8fe7020a38d7a3 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_mips.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3384320 edfa53822abb7626b2bfd6ac4d5923df > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_mips.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 781078 f4a7b2e1bbd95c9381503b382d35ba58 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_mips.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 4017490 ddca3a084b7c9f1b841bd3f93e39a1d0 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_mips.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 32314 51f707f1c1d3df1c3ad05dc545512c10 > > Little endian MIPS architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_mipsel.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 653526 e7a527c0ed8475df75b3803690081445 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_mipsel.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1038 e7b83c957a6c6822ee5614574653d80e > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_mipsel.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3125384 4446da60977e961ca64ec93a331b0803 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_mipsel.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 781672 14e3d605298699dc99e2e5e20310c6b2 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_mipsel.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3967890 3ab0c5407e2b5816ad55e47d7c256869 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_mipsel.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 32434 4f171621c453755b731ce34bad930a62 > > PowerPC architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_powerpc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 625118 41b2364e5073cd1e177fd6c3e5f455c5 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_powerpc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1038 2d18de4839ef016646127f4a104f17a1 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_powerpc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3509324 77fe7a0288d42bbe7abc9357682cdc1b > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_powerpc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 790116 9e189589ef99e78d0f0ddef4fb06440e > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_powerpc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3701264 886260a4033209be2431ff908cc032e5 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_powerpc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 33582 ec48dc685b7ac64fb722458e0954edc8 > > IBM S/390 architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_s390.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 604116 a2e6f8ee63267dfcf3df2e05f92ce958 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_s390.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1032 4d6c1ce7b2f9789fc31cc2440f39a832 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_s390.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3819738 c9523a97cd0716e67821dd6e7508615f > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_s390.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 800132 ebfc849dbaf0be2afa771a3d5b632467 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_s390.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 4234804 30fcc4ea55599b8365a0f96153755466 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_s390.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 33244 a55373a563d2546d1286f7fb4de11710 > > Sun Sparc architecture: > > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl-dev_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 582422 8ec81b47b82fdb3602c42c6fa0559793 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/libperl5.8_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 1038 ebbf066210ca33b4282cf347cc771cca > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3547312 a609080c2c788fd382f970c21b22d9e7 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 775666 0e0a56ce4bb224e7bc96ea68ac741d8b > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-debug_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 3840718 e9ded2d7974b51fbf7933b455b45b604 > http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/p/perl/perl-suid_5.8.4-8sarge3_sparc.deb > Size/MD5 checksum: 31034 8cf1966a2428838c58f0fab423b8e16a > > > These files will probably be moved into the stable distribution on > its next update. > > - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > For apt-get: deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main > For dpkg-ftp: ftp://security.debian.org/debian-security dists/stable/updates/main > Mailing list: debian-security-announce at lists.debian.org > Package info: `apt-cache show ' and http://packages.debian.org/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFDy7p4W5ql+IAeqTIRAggQAJ9QzFo5QmujczEPZvsdb6HJtLNx3ACgn+zo > uVe4ZQyXLpXGZ44f+iUjBAw= > =Exq6 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > -- > > I always have coffee when I watch radar! > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Jan 17 10:18:37 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:18:37 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid@thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] In-Reply-To: <20060110072519.GM12334@illogics.org> References: <20060109183153.GJ19724@thelackthereof.org> <20060110072519.GM12334@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060117181837.GB4722@thelackthereof.org> How about the "bring your favorite CPAN module" symposium. Everyone must bring in their favorite / interesting CPAN module and tell us about it. And how about we have the meeting next wednesday. And how about you all send RSVPs to the list. And I'll bring cookies. Also I've talked to Ticketmaster, who does lots of Perl programming, and hope to get them in to tell us about it in February. We'll talk about that at the meeting. And some other future-speaker stuff. So here is the announcement: Time: Wednesday 25 January 2006 @7:00pm Location: Scottsdale Community College, Room CM-464 http://www.sc.maricopa.edu/sccmap/ for maps Topic: PRESENTERS NEEDED Bring your Favorite/Interesting modules to tell us about Scott Talk on something (Perl6/UploadProgress/...) Brock Talk on something (VladimirBot? eh) Planning for future speakers (Ticketmaster and others) Other: Wired internet available, bring your laptop I look forward to seeing you all there! --Brock On 2006.01.10.07.25, Scott Walters wrote: | Hi Brock, | | Certainly didn't see this... I'll get to the Wiki RSN, just had some | stuff I was behind on. | | We're not going to get speakers unless someone in the crowd writes a | CPAN module they're really happy about or else we put together a | symposium, such as "my OO shortcuts", or "the templating system | I made last summer", or something like that. I did agree to do | a "Making of Perl 6 Now" talk but I'd really rather not take up | more than 1/3rd of the time. We really need multiple topics and | things going on. Think three ring circus. | | | -scott | | On 0, Brock wrote: | > | > Is it me, or did this not go through the first time? This time I'll CC | > it to someone and we'll see if it works. | > | > --Brock | > | > ----- Forwarded message from Brock ----- | > | > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:51:14 -0700 | > From: Brock | > To: phoenix-pm at pm.org | > Subject: fixed wiki | > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i | > | > | > Greetings all, | > | > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info | > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page | > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision | > control set up to easily roll-back pages. | > | > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That | > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a | > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you | > are of interest to us! | > | > How is everyone's new-year going? | > | > --Brock From scott at illogics.org Tue Jan 17 10:55:43 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:55:43 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid@thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] Message-ID: <20060117185543.GA13073@illogics.org> Hi Brock, Of course, you aren't going to say to them "how about". That conveys that you think it's a bad idea and really just want other suggestions, not attendees. Also, what we've done in the past and what has worked well is sending the announcement with plenty of notice, then when there are a few days remaining, asking for RSVPs then. But if you really need an approximate head count, asking for it up front is okay. Edited suggestion: Time: Wednesday 25 January 2006 @7:00pm Location: Scottsdale Community College, Room CM-464 http://www.sc.maricopa.edu/sccmap/ for maps Topic: PRESENTERS NEEDED Bring your Favorite/Interesting modules to tell us about Scott will present "the surprising difficult to do Upload Progress Bar" Brock will give a talk on something (VladimirBot? eh) Brock will debrief the group on upcoming Special Guest Speakers Other: Wired internet available, bring your laptop About the "bring your favorite CPAN module" symposium: Attenees will be asked to share with the group their favorite module. Say a few words about how *you* use it and how it helps you, or if you like, prepare a brief Web page or hand-out showing how you use it. Also I've talked to Ticketmaster, who does lots of Perl programming, and hope to get them in to tell us about it in February. We'll talk about that at the meeting. And some other future-speaker stuff. I look forward to seeing you all there! -scott > > --Brock > > On 2006.01.10.07.25, Scott Walters wrote: > | Hi Brock, > | > | Certainly didn't see this... I'll get to the Wiki RSN, just had some > | stuff I was behind on. > | > | We're not going to get speakers unless someone in the crowd writes a > | CPAN module they're really happy about or else we put together a > | symposium, such as "my OO shortcuts", or "the templating system > | I made last summer", or something like that. I did agree to do > | a "Making of Perl 6 Now" talk but I'd really rather not take up > | more than 1/3rd of the time. We really need multiple topics and > | things going on. Think three ring circus. > | > | > | -scott > | > | On 0, Brock wrote: > | > > | > Is it me, or did this not go through the first time? This time I'll CC > | > it to someone and we'll see if it works. > | > > | > --Brock > | > > | > ----- Forwarded message from Brock ----- > | > > | > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:51:14 -0700 > | > From: Brock > | > To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > | > Subject: fixed wiki > | > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > | > > | > > | > Greetings all, > | > > | > I got the wiki fixed -- had to used backed-up pages so some of your info > | > might be out-of-date now. Actually I just checked and the PerlLinks page > | > has already been hit again. Scott is working on getting the CVS revision > | > control set up to easily roll-back pages. > | > > | > I contacted SCC to see if we can set up a meeting later this month. That > | > means... you got it... its now your chance to VOLUNTEER for a > | > presentation, talk, discussion-lead, etc! All topics of interest to you > | > are of interest to us! > | > > | > How is everyone's new-year going? > | > > | > --Brock From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Jan 17 10:54:47 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:54:47 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [awwaiid@thelackthereof.org: fixed wiki] In-Reply-To: <20060117185543.GA13073@illogics.org> References: <20060117185543.GA13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060117185447.GD4722@thelackthereof.org> On 2006.01.17.18.55, Scott Walters wrote: | Of course, you aren't going to say to them "how about". That conveys that | you think it's a bad idea and really just want other suggestions, not | attendees. That was supposed to be sarcasm of sorts :) Thanks for the input, --Brock From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Jan 17 10:51:48 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:51:48 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement 25 January 2006 Message-ID: <20060117185148.GC4722@thelackthereof.org> Time: Wednesday 25 January 2006 @7:00pm Location: Scottsdale Community College, Room CM-464 http://www.sc.maricopa.edu/sccmap/ for maps Topic: PRESENTERS NEEDED Bring your Favorite/Interesting modules to tell us about Scott will present "the surprising difficult to do Upload Progress Bar" Brock will give a talk on something (VladimirBot? eh) Brock will debrief the group on upcoming Special Guest Speakers Other: Wired internet available, bring your laptop About the "bring your favorite CPAN module" symposium: Attenees will be asked to share with the group their favorite module. Say a few words about how *you* use it and how it helps you, or if you like, prepare a brief Web page or hand-out showing how you use it. Also I've talked to Ticketmaster, who does lots of Perl programming, and hope to get them in to tell us about it in February. We'll talk about that at the meeting. And some other future-speaker stuff. I look forward to seeing you all there! -- Brock (and Scott) :) From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Fri Jan 20 13:25:44 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:25:44 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] meeting on wed Message-ID: <20060120212544.GG4722@thelackthereof.org> Hey I was just thinking about it -- I could do some sort of AJAX/javascript in Perl thing if y'all are interested. Anyone here doing stuff like that these days? --Brock From bwmetz at att.com Fri Jan 20 13:40:03 2006 From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WCS) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:40:03 -0600 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] meeting on wed Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670128203D@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Not me, but have the yearn to learn. B -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org]On Behalf Of Brock Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:26 PM To: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: [Phoenix-pm] meeting on wed Hey I was just thinking about it -- I could do some sort of AJAX/javascript in Perl thing if y'all are interested. Anyone here doing stuff like that these days? --Brock _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From andypm at exiledplanet.org Tue Jan 24 22:59:00 2006 From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (andypm@exiledplanet.org) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:59:00 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement 25 January 2006 Message-ID: <20060125065805.YUVZ17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@COM> Consider this my RSVP. That's sounds cool, Brock; I'd like to hear more about an AJAX+Perl solution. [aj] -----Original Message----- From: Brock Subj: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement 25 January 2006 Date: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:11 pm Size: 1K To: phoenix-pm at pm.org Time: Wednesday 25 January 2006 @7:00pm Location: Scottsdale Community College, Room CM-464 http://www.sc.maricopa.edu/sccmap/ for maps Topic: PRESENTERS NEEDED Bring your Favorite/Interesting modules to tell us about Scott will present "the surprising difficult to do Upload Progress Bar" Brock will give a talk on something (VladimirBot? eh) Brock will debrief the group on upcoming Special Guest Speakers Other: Wired internet available, bring your laptop About the "bring your favorite CPAN module" symposium: Attenees will be asked to share with the group their favorite module. Say a few words about how *you* use it and how it helps you, or if you like, prepare a brief Web page or hand-out showing how you use it. Also I've talked to Ticketmaster, who does lots of Perl programming, and hope to get them in to tell us about it in February. We'll talk about that at the meeting. And some other future-speaker stuff. I look forward to seeing you all there! -- Brock (and Scott) :) _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Tue Jan 24 23:26:10 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:26:10 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement 25 January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060125065805.YUVZ17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@COM> References: <20060125065805.YUVZ17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@COM> Message-ID: <20060125072610.GQ13073@illogics.org> Oh, crud. I have to get my butt in gear, don't I? Someone give me a call tomorrow around 3pm and remind me. Then another one at 4. And one at 5. Doesn't all have to be the same people. -scott On 0, andypm at exiledplanet.org wrote: > Consider this my RSVP. > > That's sounds cool, Brock; I'd like to hear more about an AJAX+Perl solution. > > [aj] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brock > Subj: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement 25 January 2006 > Date: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:11 pm > Size: 1K > To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > Time: Wednesday 25 January 2006 @7:00pm > Location: Scottsdale Community College, Room CM-464 > http://www.sc.maricopa.edu/sccmap/ for maps > Topic: PRESENTERS NEEDED > Bring your Favorite/Interesting modules to tell us about > Scott will present "the surprising difficult to do > Upload Progress Bar" > Brock will give a talk on something (VladimirBot? eh) > Brock will debrief the group on upcoming Special Guest > Speakers > Other: Wired internet available, bring your laptop > > About the "bring your favorite CPAN module" symposium: Attenees will be > asked to share with the group their favorite module. Say a few words > about how *you* use it and how it helps you, or if you like, prepare a > brief Web page or hand-out showing how you use it. > > Also I've talked to Ticketmaster, who does lots of Perl programming, and > hope to get them in to tell us about it in February. We'll talk about > that at the meeting. And some other future-speaker stuff. > > I look forward to seeing you all there! > > -- Brock (and Scott) :) > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Wed Jan 25 07:29:58 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:29:58 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] meeting on wed In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670128203D@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670128203D@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Message-ID: <20060125152957.GC28885@thelackthereof.org> Well I'll make something up then! Actually I've been dealing with and thinking about this (AJAX/Javascript) a lot lately, so I can 'learn y'all some stuff and lead a good discussion. See everyone tonight! Here's a reminder of the meeting announcement: Time: Wednesday 25 January 2006 @7:00pm Location: Scottsdale Community College, Room CM-464 http://www.sc.maricopa.edu/sccmap/ for maps Topic: Bring your Favorite/Interesting modules to tell us about Scott will present "the surprising difficult to do Upload Progress Bar" Brock will give a talk on something (AJAX? eh) Brock will debrief the group on upcoming Special Guest Speakers --Brock On 2006.01.20.15.40, Metz, Bobby W, WCS wrote: | Not me, but have the yearn to learn. | | B | | -----Original Message----- | From: phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org]On | Behalf Of Brock | Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:26 PM | To: phoenix-pm at pm.org | Subject: [Phoenix-pm] meeting on wed | | | | Hey I was just thinking about it -- I could do some sort of | AJAX/javascript in Perl thing if y'all are interested. Anyone here doing | stuff like that these days? | | --Brock From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Wed Jan 25 07:30:54 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:30:54 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement 25 January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060125072610.GQ13073@illogics.org> References: <20060125065805.YUVZ17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@COM> <20060125072610.GQ13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060125153054.GD28885@thelackthereof.org> You have a PHONE?! --Brock On 2006.01.25.07.26, Scott Walters wrote: | Oh, crud. I have to get my butt in gear, don't I? Someone give me a | call tomorrow around 3pm and remind me. Then another one at 4. | And one at 5. Doesn't all have to be the same people. | | -scott | | On 0, andypm at exiledplanet.org wrote: | > Consider this my RSVP. | > | > That's sounds cool, Brock; I'd like to hear more about an AJAX+Perl solution. | > | > [aj] From jzugel at excite.com Wed Jan 25 08:29:21 2006 From: jzugel at excite.com (John Zugel) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:29:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix-pm Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 Message-ID: <20060125162921.EF8362F5D8@xprdmxin.myway.com> So, there's definitely a meeting tonite (Wednesday, 25 Jnauary) ? At SCC ? Same room as last time ? 7-ish ? Thanks, John Zugel _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20060125/c008422f/attachment.html From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Wed Jan 25 13:25:41 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:25:41 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix-pm Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: <20060125162921.EF8362F5D8@xprdmxin.myway.com> References: <20060125162921.EF8362F5D8@xprdmxin.myway.com> Message-ID: <20060125212541.GG28885@thelackthereof.org> Yes, there is definately a meeting tonight at SCC, slightly different room though (same general area). See the meeting announcement I sent earlier today or the one at http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/?PerlCalendar Look forward to seeing you there :) --Brock On 2006.01.25.11.29, John Zugel wrote: | So, there's definitely a meeting tonite (Wednesday, 25 Jnauary) ? | | At SCC ? Same room as last time ? 7-ish ? | | Thanks, | | John Zugel | | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | Join Excite! - [1]http://www.excite.com | The most personalized portal on the Web! | | References | | Visible links | 1. http://www.excite.com/ | _______________________________________________ | Phoenix-pm mailing list | Phoenix-pm at pm.org | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From noyler at khimetrics.com Wed Jan 25 14:15:49 2006 From: noyler at khimetrics.com (Nathan Oyler) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:15:49 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix-pm Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 Message-ID: <59B15593F41BD24591D59436E7226EAD032C277C@Khiphx2.khimetrics.com> How long do the meetings usually last? > -----Original Message----- > From: phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org] On > Behalf Of Brock > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:26 PM > To: John Zugel > Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix-pm Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 > > Yes, there is definately a meeting tonight at SCC, slightly different > room though (same general area). See the meeting announcement I sent > earlier today or the one at http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/?PerlCalendar > > Look forward to seeing you there :) > > --Brock > > On 2006.01.25.11.29, John Zugel wrote: > | So, there's definitely a meeting tonite (Wednesday, 25 Jnauary) ? > | > | At SCC ? Same room as last time ? 7-ish ? > | > | Thanks, > | > | John Zugel > | > | --------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > | > | Join Excite! - [1]http://www.excite.com > | The most personalized portal on the Web! > | > | References > | > | Visible links > | 1. http://www.excite.com/ > > | _______________________________________________ > | Phoenix-pm mailing list > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Wed Jan 25 15:01:43 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:01:43 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix-pm Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: <59B15593F41BD24591D59436E7226EAD032C277C@Khiphx2.khimetrics.com> References: <59B15593F41BD24591D59436E7226EAD032C277C@Khiphx2.khimetrics.com> Message-ID: <20060125230143.GB13073@illogics.org> On a good night, 3 or 4am. We haven't had a good night yet. So it'll probably run for 2 hours. But you can leave any time. There's a painful level of detail about the meetings on the site at http://phoenix.pm.org. -scott On 0, Nathan Oyler wrote: > How long do the meetings usually last? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org] On > > Behalf Of Brock > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:26 PM > > To: John Zugel > > Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org > > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Phoenix-pm Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 > > > > Yes, there is definately a meeting tonight at SCC, slightly different > > room though (same general area). See the meeting announcement I sent > > earlier today or the one at http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/?PerlCalendar > > > > Look forward to seeing you there :) > > > > --Brock > > > > On 2006.01.25.11.29, John Zugel wrote: > > | So, there's definitely a meeting tonite (Wednesday, 25 Jnauary) > ? > > | > > | At SCC ? Same room as last time ? 7-ish ? > > | > > | Thanks, > > | > > | John Zugel > > | > > | > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- > > | > > | Join Excite! - [1]http://www.excite.com > > | The most personalized portal on the Web! > > | > > | References > > | > > | Visible links > > | 1. http://www.excite.com/ > > > > | _______________________________________________ > > | Phoenix-pm mailing list > > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From bginter at ndevtech.net Thu Jan 26 00:46:08 2006 From: bginter at ndevtech.net (Benjamin R. Ginter) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:46:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Thanks for the AJAX Demo; Who Was That Unshaven Hippie? Message-ID: Hello, I just wanted to thank you for the ajax demo and brief runthough of a few modules. I'm the guy who arrived really late (as usual) and this was my first ever Perl Mongers meeting. For some background on my Perl and technical experience in the Phoenix area, read below. It's long winded and full of hubris, so don't say I didn't warn you. Beginnings and Golden Age of ISP Roots Let's see, I've been using Perl for about 9-10 years now. I became interested in it while working in an apprenctice-like Junior Admin role (promoted from Tech Support) at AbilityNet, an ISP in Tempe that later swallowed NetValue, CyberVault, and FirstInter.net. The senior admin there was a guy named Darrin Chandler who allowed me to watch over his shoulder as he wrote a couple of programs in Perl and I was fascinated at the flexibility of the language. In time, he eventually went to work somewhere else (wonder what he's up to these days, hrm) and I moved into a senior network and system administration role. I ended up replacing all but a couple of the NT machines with this neat little free operating system I had been running at home called Linux, replacing the NT RAS and multiport serial card/modem banks with computones, ascend max tnts, as5200s, mc3810s, 3com hiperarcs, etc.. Anyway, I wrote some Perl modules to automate account provisioning for all the services we offered (a big improvement over doing it by hand) and created a network daemon using that module that a client command-line app could communicate with to create, modify, suspend, and delete users, virtual hosts, domains, etc.. When we bought NetValue, I tied this system along with additional service accounting features into their billing database and techsupport/sales web-based environment for immediate account setup, usage billing, etc.. Sounds all routine now but at the time it was fairly sophisticated. I did a bunch of other perl stuff, bought and used the excellent all perl radius server called Radiator, and basically got real world use of Perl to solve problems with nasty kludges all over the place.. you get the idea. POOP at e1040.com Worked there until late 2000, then landed a job at e1040.com over on Broadway and the 101. There, I worked as a lead programmer on a web-based tax preparation service and was exposed to hardcore poop (aka perl object oriented programming). They had taken a dos app called Orrtax and written Perl programs to extract the screen formatting and tax calculation logic to autogenerate something on the order of 1000-2000 modules for all the tax rules for the Federal government and each state. I worked on the resulting modules and control logic for these modules somewhat and learned mod_perl inside out, maintained servers, wrote some daemons to communicate with the IRS (e-file, woot), and so on. Learned about the group of four and design patterns, Perl's reference counting garbage collection (had some memory leaks), and so much more. An incredibly intelligent guy named Ben Humphries was the Chief Technical Officer and while we eventually had some personality conflicts, I remain indebted to him for exposing me to some previously unexplored paths. He had macular degeneration (was losing his eyesight) which has to be so much more painful when you are a computer whiz and can no longer program like you know you could otherwise. At any rate, worked there until the beginning of the dot com crash around the 1Q2001.. Did some, uhm, consulting while sending resumes out like a spammer. The consulting work was just getting pretty regular when I got a bite and went for a steady, salaried income at nDev Technologies, Inc. where I continue to work today. PHP Developer They hired me as a PHP programmer (even though I had applied for a network admin/consultant job) to develop a web-based debt collections system. I tried to convince them of the merits of Perl over PHP at the time but PHP has way better marketing and gets a lot more writeups in the magazines that PHBs read. So I developed this product they named Lariat. After a couple of deployments, we started having serious problems with PHP's memory management and flexibility. It's core bloat and the fact that it wasn't really a general purpose programming language at the time really hamstrung us. Opened some bugs with the php guys with test cases, got some feedback that some of them could reproduce the bug, provided them with backtraces, tried cvs builds they thought fixed things but didn't, etc. They eventually just stopped acknowledging the bugs existed. I stressed I would follow up on it because our product depended on it and do anything they needed, including buying things, paying for core developer support, whatever it took. I explained we were using PHP in a real world, complex application and had already purchased and intended to continue purchasing their rather expensive "optimizers" and commercial tools. We continued to be ignored. This bug was eventually fixed in PHP version 4.4.0, 25 months after I initially reported it. Perl to the Rescue So I rewrote it all in some extreme programming over the course of about two weeks using Perl, Template Toolkit, mod_perl, PostgreSQL (had already switched from MySQL due to it's limitations while using PHP) and it continues to use these things. Today we have 15 agencies using the software handling a combined $193,140,833 in active debt belonging to 128,328 debtors and are setting up new agencies at an increasing pace with the addition of an ASP solution hosted from our colocated servers at LimeLight in Tempe. Name Dropping A guy named Scott Lillibridge was instrumental in the design and implementation of the software. He recommended Andy Johnson, who joined us for a short time when we still wanted database independence (I think he did a port to Oracle). Andy and I drove almost identical third-gen Firebirds, though I don't wreck mine every month, ehe. Anyway, both have since departed and it's a one man show now, though I've been getting an old Clipper/Delphi DoD programmer involved in development and he has picked up some rather complex Perl incredibly fast and seems to be enjoying it thoroughly. About Lariat We have 267 Perl modules in the latest release version -- 77 packages and 190 classes. The sloccount program reports 85,663 source lines of code, 21.41 person years of effort, schedule estimate of 1.72 years, estimated avg number of developers (effort/schedule) of 12.48, and cost to develop at $56,286/year (Hah, i wish) of $2,892,417 with 2.40 overhead. Sloccount ignores the 14731 lines in 240 tt2 templates. The database is 13,240 SLOC with values of 3.01 person years effort, 9.77 month development estimate with 3.70 developers at a cost of $407,028 to develop at the same salary and overhead. It has 129 tables, 271 plpgsql stored procs (looking forward to trying pl/perl), and 51 views. I use CVS, maintain seperate environments (which include a postgresql database and seperate apache and apache-perl server instance since we utilize a reverse proxy set) for two developers, testing for our standalone (called IP) and ASP versions (in both pgsql 7.4.11 and 8.1.2), a release version for distribution and one for testing bugs reported by end users in their release version, demonstration in both IP and ASP flavors, and a training version. I use bugzilla for enhancements, end user requests and bugs, and internal bugs and development and dotproject for a higher level development track (though it remains underutilized by mgmt). You can check out the website at http://www.lariatcentral.com/ though it is in dire need of an update with new features and screenshots. This year should be very good and most of the kinks have been ironed out, the development environment and process has matured, and our marketing and pricing plans have stabilized. Might make for a good Perl success story later in the year. I would never have imagined myself developing a Debt Collections package but it has proven to offer lots of interesting challenges and will never be complete. I've also done a lot of consulting for GCR Tires, a division of Bridgestone-Firestone while at nDev, developing GCR's intranet and business intelligence software, payroll system, inventory and credit management, and so much more. Other Dabblings Lots of other consulting over the years, various side projects (myNewsPorn, a usenet binary decoder subscription site that predated guba.com and probably inspired them), Perl Modules I haven't touched in ages including Video::Info, MPEG::Info, MPEG::LibMPEG3, NetPacket 0.02 (temporary maintainer fixing critical bug in TCP header option parsing before original author took over), and wrote the key polling daemon in the now defunct Bronc RRDTool poller that Chris Snell (of TicketMaster) maintained. I also was included as a friend of the company, the company being VA Linux Systems, back in.. what was it, December of 1999(?) when they had the IPO and bought 140 shares at the IPO price of $30 and sold them a few hours later at $273.50/share, though I didn't have the full stake and offered 70 shares to my roommate (doh). I was the first one to submit it to slashdot when I got the e-mail so was listed as the author (synaptic). They included me because of some silly little freeware POP before SMTP perl utility I wrote and put on Freshmeat to keep a berkeley db hash of IP addresses and timestamps from pop3 auth log entries that sendmail could read as a map accessed from local_check (with some Claus Abmann hacks) to permit SMTP access from foreign networks. Hopefully I've not bored everyone and have dropped some name or company one of you may recognize. If not, well you know my background and what I might be able to share with the rest of the Phoenix perl mongers. Hope to see you all next month. Best Regards, Benjamin R. Ginter "Beware the fury of a patient man" From intertwingled at qwest.net Thu Jan 26 00:48:25 2006 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (Anthony R. Nemmer) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:48:25 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally Message-ID: <43D88CD9.5040606@qwest.net> I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! From bwmetz at att.com Thu Jan 26 01:48:54 2006 From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WCS) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:48:54 -0600 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Good to see an East Valley group forming, but I have to ask, is your meeting location considered to be East Valley? ASU just never has seemed that close to me, living in the SE part of the East Valley, but hey it is closer than Scottsdale I guess. B -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Anthony R. Nemmer Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:48 AM To: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From intertwingled at qwest.net Thu Jan 26 01:51:02 2006 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (Anthony R. Nemmer) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:51:02 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Message-ID: <43D89B86.5060807@qwest.net> Right, it's closer, than say, the Camelback Road Corridor, or downtown Phoenix, or Glendale. And Four Peaks is easily accessible from the major freeways. On the other hand if you REALLY wanted to you could form an Apache Junction Perlmongers ;-) Tony Metz, Bobby W, WCS wrote: > Good to see an East Valley group forming, but I have to ask, is your > meeting location considered to be East Valley? ASU just never has > seemed that close to me, living in the SE part of the East Valley, but > hey it is closer than Scottsdale I guess. > > B > > -----Original Message----- > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org > [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Anthony R. > Nemmer > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:48 AM > To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally > > > I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! From bwmetz at att.com Thu Jan 26 08:37:03 2006 From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WCS) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:37:03 -0600 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Thanks for the AJAX Demo; Who Was That Unshaven Hippie? Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130F00E@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Holy crap. You should change your signature line to Benjamin "Tolstoy" Ginter. B -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces at pm.org]On Behalf Of Benjamin R. Ginter Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:46 AM To: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Thanks for the AJAX Demo; Who Was That Unshaven Hippie? Hello, I just wanted to thank you for the ajax demo and brief runthough of a few modules. I'm the guy who arrived really late (as usual) and this was my first ever Perl Mongers meeting. For some background on my Perl and technical experience in the Phoenix area, read below. It's long winded and full of hubris, so don't say I didn't warn you. Beginnings and Golden Age of ISP Roots Let's see, I've been using Perl for about 9-10 years now. I became interested in it while working in an apprenctice-like Junior Admin role (promoted from Tech Support) at AbilityNet, an ISP in Tempe that later swallowed NetValue, CyberVault, and FirstInter.net. The senior admin there was a guy named Darrin Chandler who allowed me to watch over his shoulder as he wrote a couple of programs in Perl and I was fascinated at the flexibility of the language. In time, he eventually went to work somewhere else (wonder what he's up to these days, hrm) and I moved into a senior network and system administration role. I ended up replacing all but a couple of the NT machines with this neat little free operating system I had been running at home called Linux, replacing the NT RAS and multiport serial card/modem banks with computones, ascend max tnts, as5200s, mc3810s, 3com hiperarcs, etc.. Anyway, I wrote some Perl modules to automate account provisioning for all the services we offered (a big improvement over doing it by hand) and created a network daemon using that module that a client command-line app could communicate with to create, modify, suspend, and delete users, virtual hosts, domains, etc.. When we bought NetValue, I tied this system along with additional service accounting features into their billing database and techsupport/sales web-based environment for immediate account setup, usage billing, etc.. Sounds all routine now but at the time it was fairly sophisticated. I did a bunch of other perl stuff, bought and used the excellent all perl radius server called Radiator, and basically got real world use of Perl to solve problems with nasty kludges all over the place.. you get the idea. POOP at e1040.com Worked there until late 2000, then landed a job at e1040.com over on Broadway and the 101. There, I worked as a lead programmer on a web-based tax preparation service and was exposed to hardcore poop (aka perl object oriented programming). They had taken a dos app called Orrtax and written Perl programs to extract the screen formatting and tax calculation logic to autogenerate something on the order of 1000-2000 modules for all the tax rules for the Federal government and each state. I worked on the resulting modules and control logic for these modules somewhat and learned mod_perl inside out, maintained servers, wrote some daemons to communicate with the IRS (e-file, woot), and so on. Learned about the group of four and design patterns, Perl's reference counting garbage collection (had some memory leaks), and so much more. An incredibly intelligent guy named Ben Humphries was the Chief Technical Officer and while we eventually had some personality conflicts, I remain indebted to him for exposing me to some previously unexplored paths. He had macular degeneration (was losing his eyesight) which has to be so much more painful when you are a computer whiz and can no longer program like you know you could otherwise. At any rate, worked there until the beginning of the dot com crash around the 1Q2001.. Did some, uhm, consulting while sending resumes out like a spammer. The consulting work was just getting pretty regular when I got a bite and went for a steady, salaried income at nDev Technologies, Inc. where I continue to work today. PHP Developer They hired me as a PHP programmer (even though I had applied for a network admin/consultant job) to develop a web-based debt collections system. I tried to convince them of the merits of Perl over PHP at the time but PHP has way better marketing and gets a lot more writeups in the magazines that PHBs read. So I developed this product they named Lariat. After a couple of deployments, we started having serious problems with PHP's memory management and flexibility. It's core bloat and the fact that it wasn't really a general purpose programming language at the time really hamstrung us. Opened some bugs with the php guys with test cases, got some feedback that some of them could reproduce the bug, provided them with backtraces, tried cvs builds they thought fixed things but didn't, etc. They eventually just stopped acknowledging the bugs existed. I stressed I would follow up on it because our product depended on it and do anything they needed, including buying things, paying for core developer support, whatever it took. I explained we were using PHP in a real world, complex application and had already purchased and intended to continue purchasing their rather expensive "optimizers" and commercial tools. We continued to be ignored. This bug was eventually fixed in PHP version 4.4.0, 25 months after I initially reported it. Perl to the Rescue So I rewrote it all in some extreme programming over the course of about two weeks using Perl, Template Toolkit, mod_perl, PostgreSQL (had already switched from MySQL due to it's limitations while using PHP) and it continues to use these things. Today we have 15 agencies using the software handling a combined $193,140,833 in active debt belonging to 128,328 debtors and are setting up new agencies at an increasing pace with the addition of an ASP solution hosted from our colocated servers at LimeLight in Tempe. Name Dropping A guy named Scott Lillibridge was instrumental in the design and implementation of the software. He recommended Andy Johnson, who joined us for a short time when we still wanted database independence (I think he did a port to Oracle). Andy and I drove almost identical third-gen Firebirds, though I don't wreck mine every month, ehe. Anyway, both have since departed and it's a one man show now, though I've been getting an old Clipper/Delphi DoD programmer involved in development and he has picked up some rather complex Perl incredibly fast and seems to be enjoying it thoroughly. About Lariat We have 267 Perl modules in the latest release version -- 77 packages and 190 classes. The sloccount program reports 85,663 source lines of code, 21.41 person years of effort, schedule estimate of 1.72 years, estimated avg number of developers (effort/schedule) of 12.48, and cost to develop at $56,286/year (Hah, i wish) of $2,892,417 with 2.40 overhead. Sloccount ignores the 14731 lines in 240 tt2 templates. The database is 13,240 SLOC with values of 3.01 person years effort, 9.77 month development estimate with 3.70 developers at a cost of $407,028 to develop at the same salary and overhead. It has 129 tables, 271 plpgsql stored procs (looking forward to trying pl/perl), and 51 views. I use CVS, maintain seperate environments (which include a postgresql database and seperate apache and apache-perl server instance since we utilize a reverse proxy set) for two developers, testing for our standalone (called IP) and ASP versions (in both pgsql 7.4.11 and 8.1.2), a release version for distribution and one for testing bugs reported by end users in their release version, demonstration in both IP and ASP flavors, and a training version. I use bugzilla for enhancements, end user requests and bugs, and internal bugs and development and dotproject for a higher level development track (though it remains underutilized by mgmt). You can check out the website at http://www.lariatcentral.com/ though it is in dire need of an update with new features and screenshots. This year should be very good and most of the kinks have been ironed out, the development environment and process has matured, and our marketing and pricing plans have stabilized. Might make for a good Perl success story later in the year. I would never have imagined myself developing a Debt Collections package but it has proven to offer lots of interesting challenges and will never be complete. I've also done a lot of consulting for GCR Tires, a division of Bridgestone-Firestone while at nDev, developing GCR's intranet and business intelligence software, payroll system, inventory and credit management, and so much more. Other Dabblings Lots of other consulting over the years, various side projects (myNewsPorn, a usenet binary decoder subscription site that predated guba.com and probably inspired them), Perl Modules I haven't touched in ages including Video::Info, MPEG::Info, MPEG::LibMPEG3, NetPacket 0.02 (temporary maintainer fixing critical bug in TCP header option parsing before original author took over), and wrote the key polling daemon in the now defunct Bronc RRDTool poller that Chris Snell (of TicketMaster) maintained. I also was included as a friend of the company, the company being VA Linux Systems, back in.. what was it, December of 1999(?) when they had the IPO and bought 140 shares at the IPO price of $30 and sold them a few hours later at $273.50/share, though I didn't have the full stake and offered 70 shares to my roommate (doh). I was the first one to submit it to slashdot when I got the e-mail so was listed as the author (synaptic). They included me because of some silly little freeware POP before SMTP perl utility I wrote and put on Freshmeat to keep a berkeley db hash of IP addresses and timestamps from pop3 auth log entries that sendmail could read as a map accessed from local_check (with some Claus Abmann hacks) to permit SMTP access from foreign networks. Hopefully I've not bored everyone and have dropped some name or company one of you may recognize. If not, well you know my background and what I might be able to share with the rest of the Phoenix perl mongers. Hope to see you all next month. Best Regards, Benjamin R. Ginter "Beware the fury of a patient man" _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 10:17:03 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:17:03 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Thanks for the AJAX Demo; Who Was That Unshaven Hippie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060126181702.GG13073@illogics.org> Benjamin, Glad you could make it. Seeing this subject line, I thought you were refering to me, and I was going to reply with my name. It took me a moment to realize you were talking about yourself. On 0, "Benjamin R. Ginter" wrote: > Hello, > > I just wanted to thank you for the ajax demo and brief runthough of a few > modules. I'm the guy who arrived really late (as usual) and this was my > first ever Perl Mongers meeting. For some background on my Perl and > technical experience in the Phoenix area, read below. It's long winded > and full of hubris, so don't say I didn't warn you. There are some really interseting people who have great stories lurking around in this group... > patterns, Perl's reference counting garbage collection (had some memory > leaks), Scalar::Util::weaken -- use it on any references that shouldn't count to create a "weak reference". Usually it's clear which reference should get this treatment -- references passed to constructors of other objects when references to those other objects are held in instanance variables, or references in a hash used for lookup, and so on. Bascially, use it for anything except the primary reference to the object created and held outside of the object. Sorry to apparently ignore the human points and move in on the technical points. I guess for me it's an ice breaker. > They eventually just stopped acknowledging the bugs existed. I stressed Wow... Re: CVS, Bugzilla, etc in your development environment, sounds like you'd score well on joelonsoftware.com's purity test. > Lots of other consulting over the years, various side projects > (myNewsPorn, a usenet binary decoder subscription site that predated > guba.com and probably inspired them), Perl Modules I haven't touched in EasyNews is based here in town. I showed up in their office drunk once with another fellow who was also drunk, and neither of us had meet the EasyNews guys before, and we somehow managed to talk them into letting us collect a friend's crashed out Linux server from their server room, even though we accidentally said some very inappropriate things. That's just how cool and easy going they are. > ages including Video::Info, MPEG::Info, MPEG::LibMPEG3, NetPacket 0.02 > (temporary maintainer fixing critical bug in TCP header option parsing > before original author took over), and wrote the key polling daemon in the Interesting. You should post a brief (or long, if you prefer) bio of yourself on the Wiki at http://phoenix.pm.org. The password is brock2. > They included me because of some silly little freeware POP before SMTP > perl utility I wrote and put on Freshmeat to keep a berkeley db hash of > IP addresses and timestamps from pop3 auth log entries that sendmail > could read as a map accessed from local_check (with some Claus Abmann > hacks) to permit SMTP access from foreign networks. Of the Berkeley db hashes on my system, probably 97% are in some way related to email... > Hopefully I've not bored everyone and have dropped some name or company > one of you may recognize. If not, well you know my background and what I > might be able to share with the rest of the Phoenix perl mongers. Hope to > see you all next month. Sorry Benjamin, you don't make the cut. Your membership is revoked. Er, what I mean is, hey everyone out there! If you came to meetings, you could hang with cool people like Benjamin! So git yer arse down to the meetings! Seriously though, think about doing some presentations. You can take as little time as you like and be as informal as you like and show people "how I solved X" or "proposed solution and first stab at Y" or "neat module to do Z". I say this because presentations seem to be the biggest draw, so if you have non-module ideas for ways to entertain Perl programmers, by all means, go for it. Of course, no one is obligated to present, but until there are too many presenters, I have to put a fine point on it. I really enjoyed reading your bio -- I'd post one of myself, but I'd miss all of the good bits (my memory is tricky), so I can do is parsel out random stories as they occur to me. Anyway, very nice to have you! Please come again! -scott > > Best Regards, > > Benjamin R. Ginter > > "Beware the fury of a patient man" > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From intertwingled at qwest.net Thu Jan 26 10:18:11 2006 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (Anthony R. Nemmer) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:18:11 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] also, set up an irc channel for tempe / east valley perlmongers Message-ID: <43D91263.30900@qwest.net> I've also set up an irc channel on EFNET for Tempe / East Valley Perlmongers: #tempe.pm. Feel free to idle. =) Tony -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 10:28:15 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:28:15 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Message-ID: <20060126182815.GH13073@illogics.org> Tony, On the age of the Internet, where information expires before its header say it does even on those rare cases where it has expiration headers, I'd encourage you to still post to the list on nights when you're hoping to get people to Four Peaks. Further, I strongly encourage you to cross-post to phoenix-pm at pm.org. If there's one thing I hate, ... okay, well, fragmentation of groups and projects ranks high on the list, let's just say. Even though this kind of reeks of fragmentation to me, if we (meaning you) do it right, it can actually reduce effort for us (meaning me) by saving me having to call and organize beer meetings. And to continue to not stop where I should have, have you considered linking to Phoenix.pm? I'm thinking ASU students and what not might look at Tempe.pm first, see few signs of life, and be put off on the whole affair. I don't feel too out of line suggesting this considering you have the password to add mention of your meetings to the phoenix.pm.org PerlCalendar page. Thank you for doing what the hell I say^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wyour cooperation in this matter. Regards, -scott P.S.: Are we still friends? I tend to write in such a way that I seldom know the answer to this question when I'm done addressing someone... anyway, no offense meant, but cooperation sorely desired. On 0, "Metz, Bobby W, WCS" wrote: > Good to see an East Valley group forming, but I have to ask, is your > meeting location considered to be East Valley? ASU just never has > seemed that close to me, living in the SE part of the East Valley, but > hey it is closer than Scottsdale I guess. > > B > > -----Original Message----- > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org > [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Anthony R. > Nemmer > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:48 AM > To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally > > > I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. > -- > > I always have coffee when I watch radar! > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From intertwingled at qwest.net Thu Jan 26 10:29:15 2006 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (Anthony R. Nemmer) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:29:15 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally In-Reply-To: <20060126182815.GH13073@illogics.org> References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> <20060126182815.GH13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: <43D914FB.8040502@qwest.net> All good ideas. =) Notice that meetings are on Sunday afternoons at 1300 hours though. I don't know how well this will work out but I consider weekend meetings to be more relaxed. At any rate I want Tempe / East Valley to be more social oriented with perhaps a few presentations. Since I live right across the street I am going to try to figure out how to set up a wireless access point so at least we will have internet, if Four Peaks doesn't have wireless Internet already. Tony Scott Walters wrote: > Tony, > > On the age of the Internet, where information expires before its header say > it does even on those rare cases where it has expiration headers, I'd > encourage you to still post to the list on nights when you're hoping to get > people to Four Peaks. Further, I strongly encourage you to cross-post to > phoenix-pm at pm.org. If there's one thing I hate, ... okay, well, fragmentation > of groups and projects ranks high on the list, let's just say. > > Even though this kind of reeks of fragmentation to me, if we (meaning you) > do it right, it can actually reduce effort for us (meaning me) by saving me > having to call and organize beer meetings. > > And to continue to not stop where I should have, have you considered linking > to Phoenix.pm? I'm thinking ASU students and what not might look at Tempe.pm > first, see few signs of life, and be put off on the whole affair. I don't > feel too out of line suggesting this considering you have the password to > add mention of your meetings to the phoenix.pm.org PerlCalendar page. > > Thank you for doing what the hell I say^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wyour cooperation in this matter. > > Regards, > -scott > > P.S.: Are we still friends? I tend to write in such a way that I seldom know the > answer to this question when I'm done addressing someone... anyway, no offense > meant, but cooperation sorely desired. > > On 0, "Metz, Bobby W, WCS" wrote: > >>Good to see an East Valley group forming, but I have to ask, is your >>meeting location considered to be East Valley? ASU just never has >>seemed that close to me, living in the SE part of the East Valley, but >>hey it is closer than Scottsdale I guess. >> >>B >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org >>[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Anthony R. >>Nemmer >>Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:48 AM >>To: phoenix-pm at pm.org >>Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally >> >> >>I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. >>-- >> >>I always have coffee when I watch radar! >>_______________________________________________ >>Phoenix-pm mailing list >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >>_______________________________________________ >>Phoenix-pm mailing list >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 10:56:29 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:56:29 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally In-Reply-To: <43D914FB.8040502@qwest.net> References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> <20060126182815.GH13073@illogics.org> <43D914FB.8040502@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20060126185628.GJ13073@illogics.org> Yay! Glad to hear. A semi-directional anntenna pointing out your window should work just fine, especially if we're on the patio. And hell, why not leave it on all the time and just give Four Peaks some access? And I don't think they do already... -scott On 0, "Anthony R. Nemmer" wrote: > All good ideas. =) Notice that meetings are on Sunday afternoons at > 1300 hours though. I don't know how well this will work out but I > consider weekend meetings to be more relaxed. At any rate I want Tempe > / East Valley to be more social oriented with perhaps a few > presentations. Since I live right across the street I am going to try > to figure out how to set up a wireless access point so at least we will > have internet, if Four Peaks doesn't have wireless Internet already. > > Tony > > Scott Walters wrote: > > Tony, > > > > On the age of the Internet, where information expires before its header say > > it does even on those rare cases where it has expiration headers, I'd > > encourage you to still post to the list on nights when you're hoping to get > > people to Four Peaks. Further, I strongly encourage you to cross-post to > > phoenix-pm at pm.org. If there's one thing I hate, ... okay, well, fragmentation > > of groups and projects ranks high on the list, let's just say. > > > > Even though this kind of reeks of fragmentation to me, if we (meaning you) > > do it right, it can actually reduce effort for us (meaning me) by saving me > > having to call and organize beer meetings. > > > > And to continue to not stop where I should have, have you considered linking > > to Phoenix.pm? I'm thinking ASU students and what not might look at Tempe.pm > > first, see few signs of life, and be put off on the whole affair. I don't > > feel too out of line suggesting this considering you have the password to > > add mention of your meetings to the phoenix.pm.org PerlCalendar page. > > > > Thank you for doing what the hell I say^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wyour cooperation in this matter. > > > > Regards, > > -scott > > > > P.S.: Are we still friends? I tend to write in such a way that I seldom know the > > answer to this question when I'm done addressing someone... anyway, no offense > > meant, but cooperation sorely desired. > > > > On 0, "Metz, Bobby W, WCS" wrote: > > > >>Good to see an East Valley group forming, but I have to ask, is your > >>meeting location considered to be East Valley? ASU just never has > >>seemed that close to me, living in the SE part of the East Valley, but > >>hey it is closer than Scottsdale I guess. > >> > >>B > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org > >>[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Anthony R. > >>Nemmer > >>Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:48 AM > >>To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > >>Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally > >> > >> > >>I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. > >>-- > >> > >>I always have coffee when I watch radar! > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Phoenix-pm mailing list > >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org > >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Phoenix-pm mailing list > >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org > >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > > > > > > > > -- > > I always have coffee when I watch radar! > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Thu Jan 26 11:00:16 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:00:16 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally In-Reply-To: <43D914FB.8040502@qwest.net> References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B34576904733670130EBE0@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> <20060126182815.GH13073@illogics.org> <43D914FB.8040502@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20060126190016.GM28885@thelackthereof.org> Dude -- why not just call this the Tempe Social Meeting for Phoenix.PM? I'd like the emphasize the idea that I (we, Phoenix.PM) have always encouraged this sort of things as part of our existence. ... a few minutes later ... OK, I just talked to Tony on efnet, #tempe.pm. Seems his goal is pretty specific -- mostly social meetings at Four Peaks. I've offered for his meetings to be Tempe-Beer-Meets for Phoenix.PM instead of a different group, and he is mulling it over -- but it doesn't matter that much. Tony is just interested in more social meetings in Tempe, which is great. I love participation! It just surprises me when it comes in the way of another user group springing up :). Tony, I look forward to coming to hang out with you and everyone at Four Peaks. --Brock On 2006.01.26.11.29, Anthony R. Nemmer wrote: | All good ideas. =) Notice that meetings are on Sunday afternoons at | 1300 hours though. I don't know how well this will work out but I | consider weekend meetings to be more relaxed. At any rate I want Tempe | / East Valley to be more social oriented with perhaps a few | presentations. Since I live right across the street I am going to try | to figure out how to set up a wireless access point so at least we will | have internet, if Four Peaks doesn't have wireless Internet already. | | Tony | | Scott Walters wrote: | > Tony, | > | > On the age of the Internet, where information expires before its header say | > it does even on those rare cases where it has expiration headers, I'd | > encourage you to still post to the list on nights when you're hoping to get | > people to Four Peaks. Further, I strongly encourage you to cross-post to | > phoenix-pm at pm.org. If there's one thing I hate, ... okay, well, fragmentation | > of groups and projects ranks high on the list, let's just say. | > | > Even though this kind of reeks of fragmentation to me, if we (meaning you) | > do it right, it can actually reduce effort for us (meaning me) by saving me | > having to call and organize beer meetings. | > | > And to continue to not stop where I should have, have you considered linking | > to Phoenix.pm? I'm thinking ASU students and what not might look at Tempe.pm | > first, see few signs of life, and be put off on the whole affair. I don't | > feel too out of line suggesting this considering you have the password to | > add mention of your meetings to the phoenix.pm.org PerlCalendar page. | > | > Thank you for doing what the hell I say^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wyour cooperation in this matter. | > | > Regards, | > -scott | > | > P.S.: Are we still friends? I tend to write in such a way that I seldom know the | > answer to this question when I'm done addressing someone... anyway, no offense | > meant, but cooperation sorely desired. | > | > On 0, "Metz, Bobby W, WCS" wrote: | > | >>Good to see an East Valley group forming, but I have to ask, is your | >>meeting location considered to be East Valley? ASU just never has | >>seemed that close to me, living in the SE part of the East Valley, but | >>hey it is closer than Scottsdale I guess. | >> | >>B | >> | >>-----Original Message----- | >>From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org | >>[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Anthony R. | >>Nemmer | >>Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:48 AM | >>To: phoenix-pm at pm.org | >>Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally | >> | >> | >>I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. | >>-- | >> | >>I always have coffee when I watch radar! | >>_______________________________________________ | >>Phoenix-pm mailing list | >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org | >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm | >>_______________________________________________ | >>Phoenix-pm mailing list | >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org | >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm | > | > | > | | | -- | | I always have coffee when I watch radar! | _______________________________________________ | Phoenix-pm mailing list | Phoenix-pm at pm.org | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From billn at odyssey.billn.net Thu Jan 26 11:08:08 2006 From: billn at odyssey.billn.net (Bill Nash) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:08:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? Message-ID: I hear tell that it's fairly fast and stable in modern versions. Any opinions? - billn From benjamin.trussell at asu.edu Thu Jan 26 11:17:11 2006 From: benjamin.trussell at asu.edu (Benjamin Trussell) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:17:11 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally Message-ID: <037FF41095AD394DB28A3991559A0FB40102F9A7@EX04.asurite.ad.asu.edu> Anthony, might you consider a scenario which is similar to Hans' Stammtich meetings at Plaid Eatery here in Tempe for PLUG? An informal gathering where 1) X is discussed, debated, and mulled over, etc, 2) which may or may not involve laptops (no 'net at Four Peaks, but presumable soon to have access to municipal wireless?), and 3) always has access to food and frosty beverages / alcohol, if such is desired. Ben > -----Original Message----- > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+benjamin.trussell=asu.edu at pm.org [mailto:phoenix- > pm-bounces+benjamin.trussell=asu.edu at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 12:00 PM > To: Anthony R. Nemmer > Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] finally > > Dude -- why not just call this the Tempe Social Meeting for Phoenix.PM? > I'd like the emphasize the idea that I (we, Phoenix.PM) have always > encouraged this sort of things as part of our existence. > > ... a few minutes later ... > > OK, I just talked to Tony on efnet, #tempe.pm. Seems his goal is pretty > specific -- mostly social meetings at Four Peaks. I've offered for his > meetings to be Tempe-Beer-Meets for Phoenix.PM instead of a different > group, and he is mulling it over -- but it doesn't matter that much. > Tony is just interested in more social meetings in Tempe, which is > great. > > I love participation! It just surprises me when it comes in the way of > another user group springing up :). Tony, I look forward to coming to > hang out with you and everyone at Four Peaks. > > --Brock > > On 2006.01.26.11.29, Anthony R. Nemmer wrote: > | All good ideas. =) Notice that meetings are on Sunday afternoons at > | 1300 hours though. I don't know how well this will work out but I > | consider weekend meetings to be more relaxed. At any rate I want Tempe > | / East Valley to be more social oriented with perhaps a few > | presentations. Since I live right across the street I am going to try > | to figure out how to set up a wireless access point so at least we will > | have internet, if Four Peaks doesn't have wireless Internet already. > | > | Tony > | > | Scott Walters wrote: > | > Tony, > | > > | > On the age of the Internet, where information expires before its > header say > | > it does even on those rare cases where it has expiration headers, I'd > | > encourage you to still post to the list on nights when you're hoping > to get > | > people to Four Peaks. Further, I strongly encourage you to cross-post > to > | > phoenix-pm at pm.org. If there's one thing I hate, ... okay, well, > fragmentation > | > of groups and projects ranks high on the list, let's just say. > | > > | > Even though this kind of reeks of fragmentation to me, if we (meaning > you) > | > do it right, it can actually reduce effort for us (meaning me) by > saving me > | > having to call and organize beer meetings. > | > > | > And to continue to not stop where I should have, have you considered > linking > | > to Phoenix.pm? I'm thinking ASU students and what not might look at > Tempe.pm > | > first, see few signs of life, and be put off on the whole affair. I > don't > | > feel too out of line suggesting this considering you have the password > to > | > add mention of your meetings to the phoenix.pm.org PerlCalendar page. > | > > | > Thank you for doing what the hell I say^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wyour cooperation > in this matter. > | > > | > Regards, > | > -scott > | > > | > P.S.: Are we still friends? I tend to write in such a way that I > seldom know the > | > answer to this question when I'm done addressing someone... anyway, no > offense > | > meant, but cooperation sorely desired. > | > > | > On 0, "Metz, Bobby W, WCS" wrote: > | > > | >>Good to see an East Valley group forming, but I have to ask, is your > | >>meeting location considered to be East Valley? ASU just never has > | >>seemed that close to me, living in the SE part of the East Valley, but > | >>hey it is closer than Scottsdale I guess. > | >> > | >>B > | >> > | >>-----Original Message----- > | >>From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org > | >>[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Anthony > R. > | >>Nemmer > | >>Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:48 AM > | >>To: phoenix-pm at pm.org > | >>Subject: [Phoenix-pm] finally > | >> > | >> > | >>I am activating tempe.pm. http://67.40.69.98/ for more info. > | >>-- > | >> > | >>I always have coffee when I watch radar! > | >>_______________________________________________ > | >>Phoenix-pm mailing list > | >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org > | >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > | >>_______________________________________________ > | >>Phoenix-pm mailing list > | >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org > | >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > | > > | > > | > > | > | > | -- > | > | I always have coffee when I watch radar! > | _______________________________________________ > | Phoenix-pm mailing list > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 11:49:04 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:49:04 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> Hi billn, Yes. Strong ones. Having to :share everything as it is declared is a major pain, as when building datastractures to be passed from thread to thread, you don't know where the data is going to originate at. Trying to use threads, I spend obscene amounts of time trying to track down the values that didn't make it through the queue and figure out where they're declared... or you can mark everything :shared. You can't just create anonymous arrays and hashes with [ ] and { } because they aren't shared. You have go to share them. "Fast" is relative. Creating a thread actually allocates a large amount of thread-local-storage -- enough to accomodate every variable that might at some point be allocated. Building Perl with threaded support slows down the interpreter all the time, even when threads aren't in use, as many datastructures must be locked, and many internal values must be allocated and addressed per-thread, which introduces more overhead in terms of CPU and RAM. Coro lets you easily bounce control back and forth between two contexts, passing data both ways if you like, using the argument/return construct rather than awkward queues and locks. Coro only allocates a little bit of C stack (16k, I think the default is), a few AVs to use to store internal data structures, and whatever lexicals actually get created in a new context. Since Coro only changes context at well specified times, it isn't necessary to constantly lock Perl data structures. It does take less time to change contexts using threads than to change Coro contexts, but Coro contexts are changed when needed (IO would otherwise block, explicitly requested with yield, etc), rather than 100hz or whatever the threading implementation likes, so Coro is likely to wind up being faster anyway even in this regard. On the other hand, only Event, Coro::Handle, and Coro::Socket and their subclasses automatically switch contexts rather than block, so, dependign on the application, more work will be required to make Coro actually work correctly -- you will often have to extract the filehandle from whatever object (such as Tk) and then do an Event wait on it. I'd boil it down to this: use threads if you have a CPU bound task that needs to be closely coupled with the user interface (GUI, daemon, network socket, whatever). If it doesn't need to be closely coupled, then you'd already be forking, of course. If the other tasks aren't CPU bound, use Coro instead. It sucks far less. But, on the other hand, using Coro merely as a replacement for threads would be selling it short. You should use Coro to structure the logic in your program and willy nilly give context to any subroutine or codeblock that can be written more concisely, more elegantly, or more intuitively using it. Then "multiprogramming" will seem more a simple matter of structuring program logic than anything so horrid and heinous as "threading". Buy my book. Damnit. -scott P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. P.P.S.: Buy my damned book, damnit. On 0, Bill Nash wrote: > > I hear tell that it's fairly fast and stable in modern versions. Any > opinions? > > - billn > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From billn at odyssey.billn.net Thu Jan 26 11:51:56 2006 From: billn at odyssey.billn.net (Bill Nash) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:51:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: > > P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, > so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. > If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't > too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. Thanks for the pointer, doing some light reading now. > P.P.S.: > > Buy my damned book, damnit. Does it come in man page or perldoc form? =D - billn From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 12:19:34 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:19:34 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> Erm, yes, perldoc, by special request. I actually wrote it in perldoc format and wrote a script to convert it to RTF. Me: "Do I *have* to use Microsoft Word?" APress: "Yes" (half way through the process) Me: "Surprise! I'm not using Microsoft Word!" APress: "Uh, okay, that would explain why bullet lists look funny" Me: "Yeah, I'm not sure what's up with that..." -scott On 0, Bill Nash wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: > > > > > P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, > > so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. > > If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't > > too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. > > Thanks for the pointer, doing some light reading now. > > > P.P.S.: > > > > Buy my damned book, damnit. > > Does it come in man page or perldoc form? =D > > - billn > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Thu Jan 26 12:16:52 2006 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:16:52 -0800 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> So, assuming the examples are regular perl inside the POD, does the book manuscript compile and run? And is the final output "Just Another Perl Hacker"? :-) -- Mike On Jan 26, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Scott Walters wrote: > Erm, yes, perldoc, by special request. I actually wrote it in perldoc > format and wrote a script to convert it to RTF. Me: "Do I *have* to > use Microsoft Word?" APress: "Yes" (half way through the process) > Me: "Surprise! I'm not using Microsoft Word!" APress: "Uh, okay, that > would explain why bullet lists look funny" Me: "Yeah, I'm not sure > what's up with that..." > > -scott > > On 0, Bill Nash wrote: >> >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: >> >>> >>> P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, >>> so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. >>> If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't >>> too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. >> >> Thanks for the pointer, doing some light reading now. >> >>> P.P.S.: >>> >>> Buy my damned book, damnit. >> >> Does it come in man page or perldoc form? =D >> >> - billn >> _______________________________________________ >> Phoenix-pm mailing list >> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Friedman HighWire Press Phone: 650-725-1974 Stanford University FAX: 270-721-8034 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 12:32:14 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:32:14 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <20060126203213.GO13073@illogics.org> Andrew, Ha! I didn't think about that. Actually, it's missing the =cut's before the code -- the code are formatted as examples in the POD, not as code with POD mixed in. But I shouldda! Actually, the POD doesn't have the fixes made in the review copy stages, so I'm loathe to pass it out. There were some real boners in there. Actually, there are some real boners in the final copy, too. But, for what it's worth (addressing billn here), APress does sell pdfs online. Protected, of course. Hey, anyone have a copy of that Ecolmsoft program that decrypts pdfs? -scott On 0, Michael Friedman wrote: > So, assuming the examples are regular perl inside the POD, does the > book manuscript compile and run? And is the final output "Just > Another Perl Hacker"? :-) > > -- Mike > > On Jan 26, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Scott Walters wrote: > > > Erm, yes, perldoc, by special request. I actually wrote it in perldoc > > format and wrote a script to convert it to RTF. Me: "Do I *have* to > > use Microsoft Word?" APress: "Yes" (half way through the process) > > Me: "Surprise! I'm not using Microsoft Word!" APress: "Uh, okay, that > > would explain why bullet lists look funny" Me: "Yeah, I'm not sure > > what's up with that..." > > > > -scott > > > > On 0, Bill Nash wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, > >>> so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. > >>> If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't > >>> too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. > >> > >> Thanks for the pointer, doing some light reading now. > >> > >>> P.P.S.: > >>> > >>> Buy my damned book, damnit. > >> > >> Does it come in man page or perldoc form? =D > >> > >> - billn > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phoenix-pm mailing list > >> Phoenix-pm at pm.org > >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Friedman HighWire Press > Phone: 650-725-1974 Stanford University > FAX: 270-721-8034 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Thu Jan 26 12:25:24 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:25:24 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <20060126202524.GN28885@thelackthereof.org> That would be sweet. While we're on the topic: $/='}"6ft.(&^)+@?@7$eJp.',$" =eval$/,@/=split//,$/.$@,$/=0;while($/ <26){$_.=$/[ord($/[++$/])-7]}print Does everyone know the JAPH game? --Brock On 2006.01.26.12.16, Michael Friedman wrote: | So, assuming the examples are regular perl inside the POD, does the | book manuscript compile and run? And is the final output "Just | Another Perl Hacker"? :-) | | -- Mike | | On Jan 26, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Scott Walters wrote: | | > Erm, yes, perldoc, by special request. I actually wrote it in perldoc | > format and wrote a script to convert it to RTF. Me: "Do I *have* to | > use Microsoft Word?" APress: "Yes" (half way through the process) | > Me: "Surprise! I'm not using Microsoft Word!" APress: "Uh, okay, that | > would explain why bullet lists look funny" Me: "Yeah, I'm not sure | > what's up with that..." | > | > -scott | > | > On 0, Bill Nash wrote: | >> | >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: | >> | >>> | >>> P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, | >>> so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. | >>> If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't | >>> too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. | >> | >> Thanks for the pointer, doing some light reading now. | >> | >>> P.P.S.: | >>> | >>> Buy my damned book, damnit. | >> | >> Does it come in man page or perldoc form? =D | >> | >> - billn From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 12:37:44 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:37:44 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: <20060126202524.GN28885@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> <20060126202524.GN28885@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060126203744.GP13073@illogics.org> sub k{&e}sub c{k}sub a{c}sub H{a}sub l{&H}sub r{(\&P,\&l,sub{$_=join'',map m/(.)$/,map((caller($_))[3],reverse 1..25);s/(?<=[a-z])([A-Z])/ $1/g;print})[$r++]->()}sub e{&r}sub P{&e}sub h{$h++?a:&e}sub t{$t++?h:&A}sub o{t}sub n{o}sub A{n}sub s{&t}sub u{&s}sub J{u}J; ... kind of long... should get some evaling to expand in the 'sub ' string which appears frequently. -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > That would be sweet. > > While we're on the topic: > > $/='}"6ft.(&^)+@?@7$eJp.',$" > =eval$/,@/=split//,$/.$@,$/=0;while($/ > <26){$_.=$/[ord($/[++$/])-7]}print > > Does everyone know the JAPH game? > --Brock > > On 2006.01.26.12.16, Michael Friedman wrote: > | So, assuming the examples are regular perl inside the POD, does the > | book manuscript compile and run? And is the final output "Just > | Another Perl Hacker"? :-) > | > | -- Mike > | > | On Jan 26, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Scott Walters wrote: > | > | > Erm, yes, perldoc, by special request. I actually wrote it in perldoc > | > format and wrote a script to convert it to RTF. Me: "Do I *have* to > | > use Microsoft Word?" APress: "Yes" (half way through the process) > | > Me: "Surprise! I'm not using Microsoft Word!" APress: "Uh, okay, that > | > would explain why bullet lists look funny" Me: "Yeah, I'm not sure > | > what's up with that..." > | > > | > -scott > | > > | > On 0, Bill Nash wrote: > | >> > | >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: > | >> > | >>> > | >>> P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, > | >>> so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. > | >>> If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't > | >>> too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. > | >> > | >> Thanks for the pointer, doing some light reading now. > | >> > | >>> P.P.S.: > | >>> > | >>> Buy my damned book, damnit. > | >> > | >> Does it come in man page or perldoc form? =D > | >> > | >> - billn > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From billn at odyssey.billn.net Thu Jan 26 12:20:05 2006 From: billn at odyssey.billn.net (Bill Nash) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:20:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: <20060126203213.GO13073@illogics.org> References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> <20060126203213.GO13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: Please don't specifically address me when considering your boners. Thanks. =) On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: > Andrew, > > Ha! I didn't think about that. Actually, it's missing the =cut's before the > code -- the code are formatted as examples in the POD, not as code with > POD mixed in. But I shouldda! > > Actually, the POD doesn't have the fixes made in the review copy stages, > so I'm loathe to pass it out. There were some real boners in there. > Actually, there are some real boners in the final copy, too. But, for > what it's worth (addressing billn here), APress does sell pdfs online. > Protected, of course. Hey, anyone have a copy of that Ecolmsoft program > that decrypts pdfs? > > -scott > > On 0, Michael Friedman wrote: >> So, assuming the examples are regular perl inside the POD, does the >> book manuscript compile and run? And is the final output "Just >> Another Perl Hacker"? :-) >> >> -- Mike >> >> On Jan 26, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Scott Walters wrote: >> >>> Erm, yes, perldoc, by special request. I actually wrote it in perldoc >>> format and wrote a script to convert it to RTF. Me: "Do I *have* to >>> use Microsoft Word?" APress: "Yes" (half way through the process) >>> Me: "Surprise! I'm not using Microsoft Word!" APress: "Uh, okay, that >>> would explain why bullet lists look funny" Me: "Yeah, I'm not sure >>> what's up with that..." >>> >>> -scott >>> >>> On 0, Bill Nash wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Scott Walters wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> P.S.: check out forks.pm -- it's an implemention of the thread API, >>>>> so Thread::Queue etc all work, but build on top of fork and IPC. >>>>> If you need threads because of CPU bound tasks but there isn't >>>>> too much variable sharing and locking, I'd go this route. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the pointer, doing some light reading now. >>>> >>>>> P.P.S.: >>>>> >>>>> Buy my damned book, damnit. >>>> >>>> Does it come in man page or perldoc form? =D >>>> >>>> - billn >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phoenix-pm mailing list >>>> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phoenix-pm mailing list >>> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Michael Friedman HighWire Press >> Phone: 650-725-1974 Stanford University >> FAX: 270-721-8034 >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phoenix-pm mailing list >> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > From scott at illogics.org Thu Jan 26 12:52:27 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:52:27 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl threads? In-Reply-To: <20060126203213.GO13073@illogics.org> References: <20060126194904.GL13073@illogics.org> <20060126201934.GM13073@illogics.org> <161EA234-487B-47E6-B27C-AE84A277F1E5@highwire.stanford.edu> <20060126203213.GO13073@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060126205226.GQ13073@illogics.org> Ooops, that Andrew should be a Michael. For some reason, I thought Andrew was addressing me. -s On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > Andrew, >