From scott at illogics.org Tue Aug 5 04:05:34 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:02 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: [scott@illogics.org: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement] Message-ID: <20030805090534.GN139@illogics.org> Did my script get the date right? If so, I'll point it at the list instead of just myself ;) Just back from DEFCON where Nathan Torkington, of all people, was lurking. Okey, he wasn't lurking per se, but he was there. He states that ORA made him the new security editor. Just as I was explaning that most of the time a company sends someone to DEFCON, they don't do it again, someone went cruising into the lobby carrying a giant bong, followed by a hoarde soon-to-be-stoned. Gnat didn't seem very comfortable with that. Of course, the party was only starting. Team Immunix lost Capture the Flag (now Root-Fu) for the second year in a row, placing second, again, and again, only by a narrow margin. This sucks because I was on this team. I got a rather radical glow-in-the-dark-penguin-in-a-gas-mask-looking-frumpy tee, though. There is a lot of good that can be done by a Perl programmer in this contest - auditing Perl (an old version of Slash and several CGIs were part of the services you were required to provide and keep up), and mounting attacks. Nits of the rules made interesting applications of Perl beyond just exploiting Perl on the other side. Last year, I used Perl, sh, and Python to convince remote teams machines to damage their own score by transmitting large amounts of unrequested data, effectively using one team to DoS other teams. This year was trickier - you had to convince them to initiate the request. I really don't have too much interesting in security, but Root-Fu is one heck of an intense, fun, challenging game with lots of room for creativity and thinkiing on your feet. Next year, I'd love to recruit a chunk of PhoenixPM to help =) Kevin Mitnick's team won the current battery of Hacker Jepordy, and then went on to win the playoffs against last years team. At one point, someone noticed the thing that Kevin was idely fidgeting with was a Blackberry. It turns out that people in the audiance were emailing him answers. It also turned out that this isn't against the rules, though it is likely to be next year. Kevin looks vibrant, healthy, and happy. He spent a lot of time up on the stage at Hacker Jepordy just grining at the audiance. Yes, there is something sly to his grin, but he certainly doesn't exude evil. For those of you not familiar with Kevin Mitnick, he is kind of the hacker poster boy. He is famous for not ever doing anything malicious - damaging systems, releasing damining information, and so forth - but for learning a lot of things that people felt threatened by and for being very hard to arrest. When prosected, the case was blown out of proportion: all sorts of paranoid garbage like Kevin might have cruise missile launch codes so he should be put in solitary confinement (he was put in solitary for over a year, which is itself illegal), and that bandwidth goes for a large dollar amount per K, so he cost the network hundreds of thousands of dollars were all accepted in the first of many hacker kangaroo courts. A large campaign to "Free Kevin" sprung up, drawing attention to the lack of ethics in how "hackers" were handled in court, which has done atleast some good to make the feds play by their own rules. "Secure Programming Cookbook for C and C++" is on shelves now. Go buy your copy. I won't make any money from it, but it doesn't suck, unlike the last thing I did technical review on ;) Okey, thats my DEFCON report. -scott ----- Forwarded message from scott@illogics.org ----- Received: from straylight (localhost [127.0.0.1]) Encoding: 8bit Subject: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 00:00:02 -0700 To: scott@illogics.org From: scott@illogics.org Hi, This is an automated message - this upcoming Thursday, the 11st, is a Perl Mongers night! Pack up your favorite old and new books, your problem code, your clever hacks, pick a new or favorite module from CPAN or your library to mention, if you want to share. If no topic has been announced, this is your chance to present that algorithm or module or technique - it doesn't have to be spectacular - people of all abilities show up and there is plenty of room for novice, intermediate, and expert content. If you don't suggest something, Doug, Kurt and Scott's inventory will be exhausted eventually, and no one wants that. Watch this space for confirmation of the meeting date and announcement of the final topic selection. ----- End forwarded message ----- From scott at illogics.org Tue Aug 5 04:37:56 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:02 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: typesafety.pm - meeting topic? Message-ID: <20030805093755.GQ139@illogics.org> Hi folks, I've just unleashed typesafety.pm on CPAN. Okey, I did it a week ago. Or so. What does it do? It lets you declare the type of object that a scalar will hold, and the return values of methods, and the arguments accepted by methods, and performs an inspection (or static analisys) of your program to make sure that types are used consistently. There are a whole lot fo reasons you'd want to do this, and "real" OO languages (like Java, C++, Simula, Smalltalk) always do. Even some non-OO languages (ML, eg OcaML) do. In a nutshell, OO types are like sets, and each method accepts things of a type that belong to a certain set (Animals, Pets, Cats, Siamese Cats, ...). Things belong to sets that belong to other sets, and things may also belong to multiple completely different sets. By formalizing what types are accepted, returned, and stored, not only are stupid mistakes found at "compile time", but you are forced to think about methods in terms of what situations they will be required to deal with. Sometimes a method is too specific - it should be working on Pets instead of Cats. Sometimes a method is not specific enough - a bathe() method shouldn't accept just any Pet, or it might get a Parakeet or a Cat. It should only accept Dogs, or it should only accept things that are of type Washable, which might include many things that are Pets and things that are of type Dishwear and Clothing. Oh, and using strict types also means you don't have to explicitly check the types of incoming objects to make sure that they are what you expect. Code tends to "grow" a lot of checks as it is debugged, and it clutters things up and slows things down. I wrote up a Wiki pages on the subject: http://perldesignpatterns.com/?TypeSafety Mark Jason Dominus also did an excellent presentation on the topic: http://perl.plover.com/yak/typing/ Of course, that predates typesafety.pm. If there is interest, I'll do a proper presentation on this subject: 1. Why use strict types 2. Strict types in Java - declarations 3. Strict types in Perl - declarations, error messages, what is checked 4. Static code analysis using the B:: backend and other insanity =) -scott From intertwingled at qwest.net Mon Aug 4 04:41:29 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:02 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: [scott@illogics.org: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement] In-Reply-To: <20030805090534.GN139@illogics.org> References: <20030805090534.GN139@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3F2E2A49.1020908@qwest.net> Scott, the packet kid! =) Scott Walters wrote: >Did my script get the date right? If so, I'll point it at the list instead >of just myself ;) > >Just back from DEFCON where Nathan Torkington, of all people, was lurking. >Okey, he wasn't lurking per se, but he was there. He states that ORA >made him the new security editor. Just as I was explaning that most of >the time a company sends someone to DEFCON, they don't do it again, >someone went cruising into the lobby carrying a giant bong, followed by a >hoarde soon-to-be-stoned. Gnat didn't seem very comfortable with that. Of >course, the party was only starting. > >Team Immunix lost Capture the Flag (now Root-Fu) for the second >year in a row, placing second, again, and again, only by a narrow >margin. This sucks because I was on this team. I got a rather >radical glow-in-the-dark-penguin-in-a-gas-mask-looking-frumpy >tee, though. There is a lot of good that can be done by a Perl >programmer in this contest - auditing Perl (an old version of >Slash and several CGIs were part of the services you were >required to provide and keep up), and mounting attacks. Nits of the >rules made interesting applications of Perl beyond just exploiting >Perl on the other side. Last year, I used Perl, sh, and Python >to convince remote teams machines to damage their own score by >transmitting large amounts of unrequested data, effectively >using one team to DoS other teams. This year was trickier - >you had to convince them to initiate the request. I really don't >have too much interesting in security, but Root-Fu is one >heck of an intense, fun, challenging game with lots of room >for creativity and thinkiing on your feet. > >Next year, I'd love to recruit a chunk of PhoenixPM to help =) > >Kevin Mitnick's team won the current battery of Hacker Jepordy, >and then went on to win the playoffs against last years team. >At one point, someone noticed the thing that Kevin was idely >fidgeting with was a Blackberry. It turns out that people in >the audiance were emailing him answers. It also turned out >that this isn't against the rules, though it is likely to be >next year. Kevin looks vibrant, healthy, and happy. He spent a >lot of time up on the stage at Hacker Jepordy just grining >at the audiance. Yes, there is something sly to his grin, but >he certainly doesn't exude evil. For those of you not familiar >with Kevin Mitnick, he is kind of the hacker poster boy. >He is famous for not ever doing anything malicious - damaging >systems, releasing damining information, and so forth - but >for learning a lot of things that people felt threatened >by and for being very hard to arrest. When prosected, the >case was blown out of proportion: all sorts of paranoid garbage >like Kevin might have cruise missile launch codes so he >should be put in solitary confinement (he was put in solitary for >over a year, which is itself illegal), and that bandwidth >goes for a large dollar amount per K, so he cost the network >hundreds of thousands of dollars were all accepted in the >first of many hacker kangaroo courts. A large campaign to >"Free Kevin" sprung up, drawing attention to the lack of ethics >in how "hackers" were handled in court, which has done atleast >some good to make the feds play by their own rules. > >"Secure Programming Cookbook for C and C++" is on shelves now. >Go buy your copy. I won't make any money from it, but it doesn't >suck, unlike the last thing I did technical review on ;) > >Okey, thats my DEFCON report. > >-scott > > >----- Forwarded message from scott@illogics.org ----- > >Received: from straylight (localhost [127.0.0.1]) >Encoding: 8bit >Subject: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 00:00:02 -0700 >To: scott@illogics.org >From: scott@illogics.org > > >Hi, > >This is an automated message - this upcoming Thursday, the 11st, is a Perl Mongers >night! > >Pack up your favorite old and new books, your problem code, your clever >hacks, pick a new or favorite module from CPAN or your library to mention, >if you want to share. > >If no topic has been announced, this is your chance to present that >algorithm or module or technique - it doesn't have to be spectacular - >people of all abilities show up and there is plenty of room for novice, >intermediate, and expert content. If you don't suggest something, Doug, >Kurt and Scott's inventory will be exhausted eventually, and no one wants >that. > >Watch this space for confirmation of the meeting date and announcement of the >final topic selection. > > > > >----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > From intertwingled at qwest.net Mon Aug 4 04:42:21 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: [scott@illogics.org: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement] In-Reply-To: <20030805090534.GN139@illogics.org> References: <20030805090534.GN139@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3F2E2A7D.3070201@qwest.net> Actually, Scott the hacker. =) (Hacker is defined as "explorer of systems" or "someone who attends DEFCONs) =D Scott Walters wrote: >Did my script get the date right? If so, I'll point it at the list instead >of just myself ;) > >Just back from DEFCON where Nathan Torkington, of all people, was lurking. >Okey, he wasn't lurking per se, but he was there. He states that ORA >made him the new security editor. Just as I was explaning that most of >the time a company sends someone to DEFCON, they don't do it again, >someone went cruising into the lobby carrying a giant bong, followed by a >hoarde soon-to-be-stoned. Gnat didn't seem very comfortable with that. Of >course, the party was only starting. > >Team Immunix lost Capture the Flag (now Root-Fu) for the second >year in a row, placing second, again, and again, only by a narrow >margin. This sucks because I was on this team. I got a rather >radical glow-in-the-dark-penguin-in-a-gas-mask-looking-frumpy >tee, though. There is a lot of good that can be done by a Perl >programmer in this contest - auditing Perl (an old version of >Slash and several CGIs were part of the services you were >required to provide and keep up), and mounting attacks. Nits of the >rules made interesting applications of Perl beyond just exploiting >Perl on the other side. Last year, I used Perl, sh, and Python >to convince remote teams machines to damage their own score by >transmitting large amounts of unrequested data, effectively >using one team to DoS other teams. This year was trickier - >you had to convince them to initiate the request. I really don't >have too much interesting in security, but Root-Fu is one >heck of an intense, fun, challenging game with lots of room >for creativity and thinkiing on your feet. > >Next year, I'd love to recruit a chunk of PhoenixPM to help =) > >Kevin Mitnick's team won the current battery of Hacker Jepordy, >and then went on to win the playoffs against last years team. >At one point, someone noticed the thing that Kevin was idely >fidgeting with was a Blackberry. It turns out that people in >the audiance were emailing him answers. It also turned out >that this isn't against the rules, though it is likely to be >next year. Kevin looks vibrant, healthy, and happy. He spent a >lot of time up on the stage at Hacker Jepordy just grining >at the audiance. Yes, there is something sly to his grin, but >he certainly doesn't exude evil. For those of you not familiar >with Kevin Mitnick, he is kind of the hacker poster boy. >He is famous for not ever doing anything malicious - damaging >systems, releasing damining information, and so forth - but >for learning a lot of things that people felt threatened >by and for being very hard to arrest. When prosected, the >case was blown out of proportion: all sorts of paranoid garbage >like Kevin might have cruise missile launch codes so he >should be put in solitary confinement (he was put in solitary for >over a year, which is itself illegal), and that bandwidth >goes for a large dollar amount per K, so he cost the network >hundreds of thousands of dollars were all accepted in the >first of many hacker kangaroo courts. A large campaign to >"Free Kevin" sprung up, drawing attention to the lack of ethics >in how "hackers" were handled in court, which has done atleast >some good to make the feds play by their own rules. > >"Secure Programming Cookbook for C and C++" is on shelves now. >Go buy your copy. I won't make any money from it, but it doesn't >suck, unlike the last thing I did technical review on ;) > >Okey, thats my DEFCON report. > >-scott > > >----- Forwarded message from scott@illogics.org ----- > >Received: from straylight (localhost [127.0.0.1]) >Encoding: 8bit >Subject: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 00:00:02 -0700 >To: scott@illogics.org >From: scott@illogics.org > > >Hi, > >This is an automated message - this upcoming Thursday, the 11st, is a Perl Mongers >night! > >Pack up your favorite old and new books, your problem code, your clever >hacks, pick a new or favorite module from CPAN or your library to mention, >if you want to share. > >If no topic has been announced, this is your chance to present that >algorithm or module or technique - it doesn't have to be spectacular - >people of all abilities show up and there is plenty of room for novice, >intermediate, and expert content. If you don't suggest something, Doug, >Kurt and Scott's inventory will be exhausted eventually, and no one wants >that. > >Watch this space for confirmation of the meeting date and announcement of the >final topic selection. > > > > >----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > From intertwingled at qwest.net Mon Aug 4 04:46:55 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: typesafety.pm - meeting topic? In-Reply-To: <20030805093755.GQ139@illogics.org> References: <20030805093755.GQ139@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3F2E2B8F.1050703@qwest.net> Heh, at first glance at the name "typesafety" I thought it was something to keep me from getting my fingers stuck in the keyboard =) Tony Scott Walters wrote: >Hi folks, > >I've just unleashed typesafety.pm on CPAN. Okey, I did it a week ago. Or so. > >What does it do? > >It lets you declare the type of object that a scalar will hold, and the >return values of methods, and the arguments accepted by methods, and >performs an inspection (or static analisys) of your program to make sure >that types are used consistently. There are a whole lot fo reasons you'd >want to do this, and "real" OO languages (like Java, C++, Simula, Smalltalk) >always do. Even some non-OO languages (ML, eg OcaML) do. > >In a nutshell, OO types are like sets, and each method accepts things >of a type that belong to a certain set (Animals, Pets, Cats, Siamese Cats, ...). >Things belong to sets that belong to other sets, and things may also belong >to multiple completely different sets. By formalizing what types are >accepted, returned, and stored, not only are stupid mistakes found at >"compile time", but you are forced to think about methods in terms of >what situations they will be required to deal with. Sometimes a method is >too specific - it should be working on Pets instead of Cats. Sometimes >a method is not specific enough - a bathe() method shouldn't accept >just any Pet, or it might get a Parakeet or a Cat. It should only accept >Dogs, or it should only accept things that are of type Washable, which >might include many things that are Pets and things that are of type >Dishwear and Clothing. Oh, and using strict types also means you don't >have to explicitly check the types of incoming objects to make sure >that they are what you expect. Code tends to "grow" a lot of checks >as it is debugged, and it clutters things up and slows things down. > >I wrote up a Wiki pages on the subject: > >http://perldesignpatterns.com/?TypeSafety > >Mark Jason Dominus also did an excellent presentation on the topic: >http://perl.plover.com/yak/typing/ > >Of course, that predates typesafety.pm. > >If there is interest, I'll do a proper presentation on this subject: > >1. Why use strict types >2. Strict types in Java - declarations >3. Strict types in Perl - declarations, error messages, what is checked >4. Static code analysis using the B:: backend and other insanity =) > >-scott > > > > > From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Tue Aug 5 12:39:36 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: [scott@illogics.org: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement] References: <20030805090534.GN139@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3F2FEBD8.7010200@bpxinternet.com> Scott Walters wrote: > Did my script get the date right? If so, I'll point it at the list instead > of just myself ;) > > Just back from DEFCON where Nathan Torkington, of all people, was lurking. Thanks for the report Scott. Entertaining as always. :) > Hi, > > This is an automated message - this upcoming Thursday, the 11st, is a Perl Mongers > night! > > Pack up your favorite old and new books, your problem code, your clever > hacks, pick a new or favorite module from CPAN or your library to mention, > if you want to share. > > If no topic has been announced, this is your chance to present that > algorithm or module or technique - it doesn't have to be spectacular - > people of all abilities show up and there is plenty of room for novice, > intermediate, and expert content. If you don't suggest something, Doug, > Kurt and Scott's inventory will be exhausted eventually, and no one wants > that. > > Watch this space for confirmation of the meeting date and announcement of the > final topic selection. > About the meeting... I hate to do this, but I can't make it this Thursday, and next Thursday conflicts with the PLUG meeting. Feel free to have a meeting without me if you can come up with another venue. Also, I'll *finally* have my presentation ready. So if you want to take a break after your next presentation, Scott, feel free. From scott at illogics.org Tue Aug 5 16:49:04 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: [scott@illogics.org: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement] Message-ID: <20030805214904.GU139@illogics.org> Doug, Thats fine. Would you care to do a double-topic meeting with me in two weeks, then? More bang for the driving buck. I can take as little as 30 minutes or as much as an hour. If not, thats fine, I'l wait, no point using up all of the topics ;) -scott On 0, Doug Miles wrote: > > Scott Walters wrote: > > Did my script get the date right? If so, I'll point it at the list instead > > of just myself ;) > > > > Just back from DEFCON where Nathan Torkington, of all people, was lurking. > > > > Thanks for the report Scott. Entertaining as always. :) > > > Hi, > > > > This is an automated message - this upcoming Thursday, the 11st, is a Perl Mongers > > night! > > > > Pack up your favorite old and new books, your problem code, your clever > > hacks, pick a new or favorite module from CPAN or your library to mention, > > if you want to share. > > > > If no topic has been announced, this is your chance to present that > > algorithm or module or technique - it doesn't have to be spectacular - > > people of all abilities show up and there is plenty of room for novice, > > intermediate, and expert content. If you don't suggest something, Doug, > > Kurt and Scott's inventory will be exhausted eventually, and no one wants > > that. > > > > Watch this space for confirmation of the meeting date and announcement of the > > final topic selection. > > > > About the meeting... I hate to do this, but I can't make it this > Thursday, and next Thursday conflicts with the PLUG meeting. Feel free > to have a meeting without me if you can come up with another venue. > Also, I'll *finally* have my presentation ready. So if you want to take > a break after your next presentation, Scott, feel free. > From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Tue Aug 5 19:07:59 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: [scott@illogics.org: Thursday Meeting Automated Pre-Announcement] In-Reply-To: <20030805214904.GU139@illogics.org> References: <20030805214904.GU139@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3F3046DF.70907@bpxinternet.com> Scott Walters wrote: >Doug, > >Thats fine. Would you care to do a double-topic meeting with me in two weeks, then? >More bang for the driving buck. I can take as little as 30 minutes or as much as >an hour. If not, thats fine, I'l wait, no point using up all of the topics ;) > > That's fine. Actually, mine is two topics, so triple the fun! :) >-scott > >On 0, Doug Miles wrote: > > >>Scott Walters wrote: >> >> >>>Did my script get the date right? If so, I'll point it at the list instead >>>of just myself ;) >>> >>>Just back from DEFCON where Nathan Torkington, of all people, was lurking. >>> >>> >> >> >>Thanks for the report Scott. Entertaining as always. :) >> >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>This is an automated message - this upcoming Thursday, the 11st, is a Perl Mongers >>>night! >>> >>>Pack up your favorite old and new books, your problem code, your clever >>>hacks, pick a new or favorite module from CPAN or your library to mention, >>>if you want to share. >>> >>>If no topic has been announced, this is your chance to present that >>>algorithm or module or technique - it doesn't have to be spectacular - >>>people of all abilities show up and there is plenty of room for novice, >>>intermediate, and expert content. If you don't suggest something, Doug, >>>Kurt and Scott's inventory will be exhausted eventually, and no one wants >>>that. >>> >>>Watch this space for confirmation of the meeting date and announcement of the >>>final topic selection. >>> >>> >>> >>About the meeting... I hate to do this, but I can't make it this >>Thursday, and next Thursday conflicts with the PLUG meeting. Feel free >>to have a meeting without me if you can come up with another venue. >>Also, I'll *finally* have my presentation ready. So if you want to take >>a break after your next presentation, Scott, feel free. >> >> >> > > > From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Mon Aug 11 12:32:41 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows Message-ID: <3F37D339.4050007@bpxinternet.com> Hey all! I'm looking for a solution to play MIDI files from Perl on Windows. I'm already aware of Win32API::MIDI on CPAN, but it requires Visual C++ to compile, and I don't have that available. There are other MIDI modules on CPAN, but they appear to be concerned with generating/reading/munging MIDI. I was wondering if there is a way to do it using Win32::OLE. I'm woefully (or blissfully) ignorant of the Windows API, so any ideas are appreciated. Thanks! From kellewic at yahoo.com Mon Aug 11 12:41:47 2003 From: kellewic at yahoo.com (Shay Harding) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Job leads Message-ID: <20030811174147.65395.qmail@web10801.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, It's been quite some time since I actually made a meeting. The company I work for is looking to fill some openings for experienced individuals. We are currently looking for 1 software engineer. This position deals specifically with creating conceptual designs, database designs, and writing the requirements and design specifications necessary for the development team to build the software. Very little coding will be involved. The other position is a project team lead. This person should be extremely familair with Perl, Linux, and MySQL. Will lead a team of 3-4 programmers and have some upper level programming responsibilities. If anyone is interested please reply back to me. I will provide more information. I am posting here even before the actual positions have been posted publicly. These positions are not contracts. They are permanent, salaried positions. Shay Harding CCBill, LLC From scott at illogics.org Mon Aug 11 15:33:26 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows Message-ID: <20030811203325.GB29103@illogics.org> Hrm, well, the MIDI port is just a serial port, really. I guess this would help if you were using Linux/BSD/etc and could opt not to use the higher levels of the protocol stack provided by the OS in favor of your own. -scott On 0, Doug Miles wrote: > > Hey all! > > I'm looking for a solution to play MIDI files from Perl on Windows. I'm > already aware of Win32API::MIDI on CPAN, but it requires Visual C++ to > compile, and I don't have that available. There are other MIDI modules > on CPAN, but they appear to be concerned with generating/reading/munging > MIDI. I was wondering if there is a way to do it using Win32::OLE. I'm > woefully (or blissfully) ignorant of the Windows API, so any ideas are > appreciated. Thanks! > From intertwingled at qwest.net Sun Aug 10 19:20:18 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <3F37D339.4050007@bpxinternet.com> References: <3F37D339.4050007@bpxinternet.com> Message-ID: <3F36E142.2050209@qwest.net> Doug Miles wrote: > Hey all! > > I'm looking for a solution to play MIDI files from Perl on Windows. > I'm already aware of Win32API::MIDI on CPAN, but it requires Visual > C++ to compile, and I don't have that available. There are other MIDI > modules on CPAN, but they appear to be concerned with > generating/reading/munging MIDI. I was wondering if there is a way to > do it using Win32::OLE. I'm woefully (or blissfully) ignorant of the > Windows API, so any ideas are appreciated. Thanks! > > > that's a real problem with CPAN modules =/ Tony From cakrum at cox.net Wed Aug 13 21:06:10 2003 From: cakrum at cox.net (Chris Krum) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows References: <3F37D339.4050007@bpxinternet.com> Message-ID: <001301c36208$a212b020$540d0344@ph.cox.net> > Hey all! > > I'm looking for a solution to play MIDI files from Perl on Windows. I'm > already aware of Win32API::MIDI on CPAN, but it requires Visual C++ to > compile, and I don't have that available. There are other MIDI modules > on CPAN, but they appear to be concerned with generating/reading/munging > MIDI. I was wondering if there is a way to do it using Win32::OLE. I'm > woefully (or blissfully) ignorant of the Windows API, so any ideas are > appreciated. Thanks! > I'm also interested in playing midi from perl. Here are a few questions to help me understand your situation better. Does this have to be a pure perl solution? Could you use a rendering engine like Timidity++ to render the midi to a wave file and output that to the soundcard? Are you restricted to midi or could you use something like SAOL? Is your app generating the midi files or does it pull them from a file system somewhere? Do you need to play the midi notes in realtime (like creating your own midi instrument) or are they stored in files and played back later? Regards, Chris. From TomA at fh.org Fri Aug 15 14:25:51 2003 From: TomA at fh.org (Tom Achtenberg) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Training Message-ID: <4A8DFDA6B395D411A11B00508BEE23FE01363637@EXCHANGE> Hi all, I have the luxury right now of having my company willing to send me to some Perl training. I'm a beginner so I need it from the start. What local Phoenix area companies offer Perl training? From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Fri Aug 15 16:58:38 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows References: <3F37D339.4050007@bpxinternet.com> <001301c36208$a212b020$540d0344@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <3F3D578E.10605@bpxinternet.com> Chris Krum wrote: >>Hey all! >> >>I'm looking for a solution to play MIDI files from Perl on Windows. I'm >>already aware of Win32API::MIDI on CPAN, but it requires Visual C++ to >>compile, and I don't have that available. There are other MIDI modules >>on CPAN, but they appear to be concerned with generating/reading/munging >>MIDI. I was wondering if there is a way to do it using Win32::OLE. I'm >>woefully (or blissfully) ignorant of the Windows API, so any ideas are >>appreciated. Thanks! >> > > I'm also interested in playing midi from perl. Here are a few questions to > help me understand your situation better. > > Does this have to be a pure perl solution? Could you use a rendering engine > like Timidity++ to render the midi to a wave file and output that to the > soundcard? Are you restricted to midi or could you use something like SAOL? > Is your app generating the midi files or does it pull them from a file > system somewhere? Do you need to play the midi notes in realtime (like > creating your own midi instrument) or are they stored in files and played > back later? Unfortunately, I can't answer all of those questions right now. I should be getting more information soon. What I did find was Win32::MCI::Basic. I was excited at first, because it worked fine on my WinME box (boo, hiss :) ), but have since discovered that it doesn't work on Win2000 (and possibly all NT based systems - just a guess). I'm wondering if the MCI API was removed in NT. I haven't finished with my research yet. All of that being said, I might be able to use mp3 or wav files instead, so if anyone has any suggestions on playing those under windows, feel free. :) From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Fri Aug 15 17:02:44 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Training References: <4A8DFDA6B395D411A11B00508BEE23FE01363637@EXCHANGE> Message-ID: <3F3D5884.3070504@bpxinternet.com> Tom Achtenberg wrote: > Hi all, I have the luxury right now of having my company willing to send me to some Perl training. I'm a beginner so I need it from the start. What local Phoenix area companies offer Perl training? > > I'm not aware of any. Anyone else? If you don't find a solution, contact me off list, and we might be able to make arrangements: perlguy@earthlink.net If you do find someone, feel free to post it, as someone else might find it useful. Doug Miles From benjamin.trussell at asu.edu Fri Aug 15 17:28:14 2003 From: benjamin.trussell at asu.edu (Benjamin Trussell) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Training Message-ID: <10B7D57404FD0C4587019E88DACD0917AD85E9@ex2.asurite.ad.asu.edu> This is from a quick shot at google. src: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=perl+training+Arizona &btnG=Google+Search "Featured Perl Programming Schools" at computertrainingschools.com: http://www.computertrainingschools.com/search/AZ/PERLPROG/ "Training Classes for Phoenix" at Batky-Howell public and private training: http://www.batky-howell.com/regions/arizona.html "Introduction to Perl Scripting" at verhoef.com: http://www.verhoef.com/city/outlines/z/AZ/Phoenix/PERL3.htm Also might want to see about your company getting a subscription to Safari. 28 perl books listed: http://safari.oreilly.com/ Ben -----Original Message----- From: Tom Achtenberg [mailto:TomA@fh.org] Sent: Fri 2003-08-15 12:25 PM To: Phoenix Perl Mongers List (E-mail) Cc: Subject: Phoenix.pm: Training Hi all, I have the luxury right now of having my company willing to send me to some Perl training. I'm a beginner so I need it from the start. What local Phoenix area companies offer Perl training? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2773 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/phoenix-pm/attachments/20030815/68a0d5fe/attachment.bin From scott at illogics.org Fri Aug 15 17:45:38 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Training Message-ID: <20030815224538.GL12255@illogics.org> Hi Tom and company, I've seen courseware from 3 day seminars and it, uh, left a lot to be desired. Especially the "advanced" ones. I'm writing this with no knowledge of your skill level, so please forgive me. I'm just running the gauntlet here: My advice is call area technical colleges about the availability of night/evening classes. I can't remember who, but one of our own perlmongers was teaching just such a course and perhaps still is. This is an effectively a directed study, which checks in place to make sure that important tidbits aren't missed and a safety net if you get lost (okey, I'm mixing metaphores, time to stop). Ongoing education at a college looks far better on a resume than stupid seminars anyway. Any technical college's Perl class is likely to be fairly comprehensive but suited to relative novices at the same time. It won't move quite as quickly as a seminar, but it will be a lot more thorough. Far better than a seminar for a novice is a copy of "Learning Perl" from O'Reilly or WROX's (now free) "Beginning Perl" at http://learn.perl.org/library/beginning_perl/ - the language will get a fair treatment, common problems people have will be discussed, common idioms explained, resources mentioned, and pointers to where to find solutions to more difficult problems given - none of which I've seen in a seminar. The best thing to do to get your fingers on the pulse of Perl is go to Perl conferances like YAPC. http://perl.com always has one or two of those listed. Or is that perl.oreilly.com? I can never remember. You'll meet lots of really interesting people (I'm told) including people elevated to legendary status by the Perl community, and there are multiple lecture tracks, on all subjects, for all skill levels. People I talk to that have made those things say they just go to the lightning talk and listen to 5 minute lectures all day for extreme highbandwidth braindumpage. But that of course requires hotel and busfair. If you have 20-30 people all interested in expanding their skills, a lot of the Perl community elders do training. Randal Schwartz comes to mind, but I know there are others. He will come to your location and teach a class, and the man has plenty of stuff in his head to make it intresting to everyone, reguardless of their skill level. Last but not least, Phoenix Perl Mongers usually has some lecture or another coming up. I work hard to make sure that there are plenty of advanced topics in the track =) Short of YAPC, I expect this is the most advanced treatment Perl will get, in town. Unless the topic doesn't happen to be advanced. Which does happen now and then. It is normally free, but if you want to bring baked goods, you're welcome to ;) -scott On 0, Doug Miles wrote: > > Tom Achtenberg wrote: > > Hi all, I have the luxury right now of having my company willing to send me to some Perl training. I'm a beginner so I need it from the start. What local Phoenix area companies offer Perl training? > > > > > > I'm not aware of any. Anyone else? If you don't find a solution, > contact me off list, and we might be able to make arrangements: > > perlguy@earthlink.net > > If you do find someone, feel free to post it, as someone else might find > it useful. > > Doug Miles > From scott at illogics.org Fri Aug 15 18:00:10 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows Message-ID: <20030815230010.GO12255@illogics.org> Hmm. I don't think we should help Doug. I think he is trying trying to write a Perl exploit for this: http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2003-18.html -scott On 0, Doug Miles wrote: > > Chris Krum wrote: > >>Hey all! > >> > >>I'm looking for a solution to play MIDI files from Perl on Windows. I'm > >>already aware of Win32API::MIDI on CPAN, but it requires Visual C++ to > >>compile, and I don't have that available. There are other MIDI modules > >>on CPAN, but they appear to be concerned with generating/reading/munging > >>MIDI. I was wondering if there is a way to do it using Win32::OLE. I'm > >>woefully (or blissfully) ignorant of the Windows API, so any ideas are > >>appreciated. Thanks! > >> > > > > I'm also interested in playing midi from perl. Here are a few questions to > > help me understand your situation better. > > > > Does this have to be a pure perl solution? Could you use a rendering engine > > like Timidity++ to render the midi to a wave file and output that to the > > soundcard? Are you restricted to midi or could you use something like SAOL? > > Is your app generating the midi files or does it pull them from a file > > system somewhere? Do you need to play the midi notes in realtime (like > > creating your own midi instrument) or are they stored in files and played > > back later? > > Unfortunately, I can't answer all of those questions right now. I > should be getting more information soon. What I did find was > Win32::MCI::Basic. I was excited at first, because it worked fine on my > WinME box (boo, hiss :) ), but have since discovered that it doesn't > work on Win2000 (and possibly all NT based systems - just a guess). I'm > wondering if the MCI API was removed in NT. I haven't finished with my > research yet. > > All of that being said, I might be able to use mp3 or wav files instead, > so if anyone has any suggestions on playing those under windows, feel > free. :) > From Mark.Pease at motorola.com Fri Aug 15 18:09:57 2003 From: Mark.Pease at motorola.com (Mark Pease) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Training References: <20030815224538.GL12255@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3F3D6845.609@motorola.com> Scott Walters wrote: > > My advice is call area technical colleges about the availability of > night/evening > classes. I can't remember who, but one of our own perlmongers was > teaching just > such a course and perhaps still is. This is an effectively a directed > study, > which checks in place to make sure that important tidbits aren't missed > and a > safety net if you get lost (okey, I'm mixing metaphores, time to stop). > Ongoing education at a college looks far better on a resume than stupid > seminars anyway. Any technical college's Perl class is likely to be fairly > comprehensive but suited to relative novices at the same time. It won't > move > quite as quickly as a seminar, but it will be a lot more thorough. > That would be me. At the moment, Chandler-Gilbert is not offering the class maybe in the spring, though). I can teach the class privately, as a three day, five day, or as an evening class one day a week for 8 weeks, if there is a place and at least 10 people. Please contact me at pease@cpan.org if anyone is interested. -- Mark Pease Mark.Pease@motorola.com Motorola DigitalDNA(tm) Laboratories perl@perl.sps.mot.com 2100 E. Elliot Rd. Phone: (480) 413-3919 Mail Stop: AZ34 EL741 Tempe, AZ 85284 Pager: (800) 381-3304 Fax: (480) 413-7918 Co-Author (with Carl Dichter) of "Software Engineering with Perl" *** This note may contain Motorola Confidential Proprietary or Motorola Internal Use Only Information. Please handle accordingly. *** From djmilesfamily at earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 18:28:36 2003 From: djmilesfamily at earthlink.net (Doug and Julie Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <20030815230010.GO12255@illogics.org> References: <20030815230010.GO12255@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3F3D6CA4.1090203@earthlink.net> Scott Walters wrote: >Hmm. I don't think we should help Doug. I think he is trying trying >to write a Perl exploit for this: > >http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2003-18.html > >-scott > > An exploit in a MIDI library? OK, now I've seen everything. :) Doug Miles From cakrum at cox.net Fri Aug 15 20:53:32 2003 From: cakrum at cox.net (Chris Krum) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows References: <20030815230010.GO12255@illogics.org> Message-ID: <004801c36399$32f26b80$540d0344@ph.cox.net> > Hmm. I don't think we should help Doug. I think he is trying trying > to write a Perl exploit for this: > > http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2003-18.html > > -scott > Maybe we should bankroll him instead. :-) (Heck, let's make him president) From mpjbell at softhome.net Fri Aug 15 20:02:18 2003 From: mpjbell at softhome.net (Marty Bell) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <3F3D578E.10605@bpxinternet.com> References: <3F37D339.4050007@bpxinternet.com> <001301c36208$a212b020$540d0344@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030815200218.00a21818@pop.SoftHome.net> Doug, Chris, I realize this may not be exactly the solution you are looking for. But here is a working Perl script that plays a midi file (tested on 2 W2000 PCs I have). It requires Windows Scripting Host(free to download, see notes in attached perl script), and Windows Media Player (I believe available on all windows OS's, although the name of the .exe may change. Windows Scripting Host is (IMHO) the preferred shell in the Windows OS world. It definitely puts Perl (VB script, etc.) on steroids (hope that not illegal here). If nothing else it demonstrates how to load any .exe and pass a parm. A .ocx would be even better for your purposes, I just don't know of any free to distribute without doing the research. Marty At 02:58 PM 8/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Chris Krum wrote: >>>Hey all! >>> >>>I'm looking for a solution to play MIDI files from Perl on Windows. I'm >>>already aware of Win32API::MIDI on CPAN, but it requires Visual C++ to >>>compile, and I don't have that available. There are other MIDI modules >>>on CPAN, but they appear to be concerned with generating/reading/munging >>>MIDI. I was wondering if there is a way to do it using Win32::OLE. I'm >>>woefully (or blissfully) ignorant of the Windows API, so any ideas are >>>appreciated. Thanks! >>> >> >> I'm also interested in playing midi from perl. Here are a few questions to >> help me understand your situation better. >> >> Does this have to be a pure perl solution? Could you use a rendering engine >> like Timidity++ to render the midi to a wave file and output that to the >> soundcard? Are you restricted to midi or could you use something like SAOL? >> Is your app generating the midi files or does it pull them from a file >> system somewhere? Do you need to play the midi notes in realtime (like >> creating your own midi instrument) or are they stored in files and played >> back later? > >Unfortunately, I can't answer all of those questions right now. I >should be getting more information soon. What I did find was >Win32::MCI::Basic. I was excited at first, because it worked fine on my >WinME box (boo, hiss :) ), but have since discovered that it doesn't >work on Win2000 (and possibly all NT based systems - just a guess). I'm >wondering if the MCI API was removed in NT. I haven't finished with my >research yet. > >All of that being said, I might be able to use mp3 or wav files instead, >so if anyone has any suggestions on playing those under windows, feel >free. :) > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Midi.zip Type: application/zip Size: 10568 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/phoenix-pm/attachments/20030815/0bd00f60/Midi.zip From djmilesfamily at earthlink.net Sat Aug 16 23:54:45 2003 From: djmilesfamily at earthlink.net (Doug and Julie Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Playing MIDI with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <3F3D6CA4.1090203@earthlink.net> References: <20030815230010.GO12255@illogics.org> <3F3D6CA4.1090203@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3F3F0A95.1070108@earthlink.net> Doug and Julie Miles wrote: Scott Walters wrote: > Hmm. I don't think we should help Doug. I think he is trying trying > to write a Perl exploit for this: > > http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2003-18.html > > -scott > > An exploit in a MIDI library? OK, now I've seen everything. :) Oh, yeah. Thanks for ruining my plot to take over the world with my evil MIDI files. Back to the drawing board... :) Doug Miles From jennykitten1 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 28 05:51:58 2003 From: jennykitten1 at yahoo.com (Kitty) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: 20 Gb Laptop HD for sale Message-ID: <1062067917.24249.32.camel@moo.wpa.nan> The story is that I found a good deal on a laptop through a liquidator on ebay, and the specs said it came with a 6Gb drive. So I bought a 20Gb Hatachi in anticipation of installing a dual boot system on it. Well, the kicker is that when the laptop got here today, it's already got a 20Gb drive in it! So now I have a drive to sell. I'm asking $100 obo. The best online price on this I could find is between $90-150. And it's new, with manufacturer's 3 yr. warranty. The specs are: Storage Type Hard drive Type Portable Capacity 20 GB Interface DMA/ATA-66 (Ultra) Enclosure Internal Form Factor 2.5" Ultra Slim Line Spindle Speed 4200 rpm Platform PC Seek Time 12 ms Data Transfer Rate 66.6 MBps Buffer Size 512 KB Height .39 in. (9mm) Width 2.76 in. Depth 3.94 in. Weight .21 lb. Warranty 3 years warranty Product ID 20130304 -- Take care, Kitty From scott at illogics.org Fri Aug 29 14:07:07 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: SCO and EFF -- do something Message-ID: <20030829190707.GF9574@illogics.org> Hi, http://action.eff.org/postcard/index.asp?2003082995488702 EFF is doing a letter writing, fax, emai, campaign to congress to make them aware of SCO's extortion. A little pressure can sick an attorney general on SCO, and as you know, the attorney general is something of a dedicated public prosectuor with an an office full of lawyers making sure companies follow the law too and they act primarily in response to consumer complaints. Fraud, false advertising, and extortion are all on their list. But I rant. So, anyway, if you happen to think that sueing people for money to bolster their case against IBM while refusing to provide any evidence at all for people to make up their own mind with even if you did want to settle your debts is fraud, send a fax. -scott From johngnub at cox.net Sat Aug 30 19:14:29 2003 From: johngnub at cox.net (johnb) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:03 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: SCO and EFF -- do something In-Reply-To: <20030829190707.GF9574@illogics.org> Message-ID: <16997C82-DB48-11D7-8CC8-000A9585B970@cox.net> DONE, and passed it as as well; JB On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 12:07 PM, Scott Walters wrote: > > Hi, > > http://action.eff.org/postcard/index.asp?2003082995488702 > > EFF is doing a letter writing, fax, emai, campaign to congress to make > them > aware of SCO's extortion. A little pressure can sick an attorney > general > on SCO, and as you know, the attorney general is something of a > dedicated > public prosectuor with an an office full of lawyers making sure > companies > follow the law too and they act primarily in response to consumer > complaints. > Fraud, false advertising, and extortion are all on their list. But I > rant. > > So, anyway, if you happen to think that sueing people for money to > bolster their case against IBM while refusing to provide any evidence > at > all for people to make up their own mind with even if you did want > to settle your debts is fraud, send a fax. > > -scott >