From enobacon at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 15:19:30 2010
From: enobacon at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:19:30 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] How to Lie Like a Geek -- January meeting next week
Message-ID: <201001061519.30569.enobacon@gmail.com>

see http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/

Wed. January 13th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.

How to Lie Like a Geek
speaker: Michael Schwern

Geeks have a special relationship with The Truth. Nothing is more 
important than correcting a falsehood, no matter how small, and nothing 
is more odious than not telling The Truth. Unfortunately, in speaking 
The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, the meaning is often mangled 
and the end result is the opposite, a lie.

We?ll examine some ways geeks lie while telling The Truth, to themselves 
and to others, and hopefully achieve better communications, easier to 
understand interfaces and maybe some personal enlightenment.

Some examples include: Lies by omission, lies by precision, lies by 
irrelevancy, lies by design, lies with statistics and that most 
dangerous of words ?should? as in ?the user should have realized?.

There will be cake.
  http://tinyurl.com/mermtx


As always, the meeting will be followed by social hour at the LuckyLab.
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From schwern at pobox.com  Wed Jan  6 15:37:55 2010
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:37:55 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] How to Lie Like a Geek -- January meeting next week
In-Reply-To: <201001061519.30569.enobacon@gmail.com>
References: <201001061519.30569.enobacon@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B451ED3.1000208@pobox.com>

PS  This is not a "how to" but a "how don't".


-- 
<Schwern> What we learned was if you get confused, grab someone and swing
           them around a few times
         -- Life's lessons from square dancing

From paulgrogers at lycos.com  Wed Jan  6 17:28:13 2010
From: paulgrogers at lycos.com (paul rogers)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:28:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
Message-ID: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>

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From erik at hollensbe.org  Wed Jan  6 18:39:00 2010
From: erik at hollensbe.org (Erik Hollensbe)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:39:00 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
In-Reply-To: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
References: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
Message-ID: <4B454944.3070905@hollensbe.org>

On 1/6/2010 8:28 PM, paul rogers wrote:
> My system is one I built under guidance of LFS. It's essentially a 
> user workstation. I'm not developing anything, i.e. don't need SVN, 
> just keeping this "useful". It has perl-5.8.7, and whatever "standard" 
> modules it comes with. I got a digital camera for Xmas, so I'm adding 
> support. GIMP seems necessary, and I can't build that without 
> XML::Parse. Once upon a time, maybe 5 years ago, I had a CPAN "bundle" 
> which I apparently lost on a flakey drive. I took a look at CPAN 
> today, and it's grown out of hand! ;-) I really don't want to hunt and 
> peck downloading modules one at a time, I don't need it all, and I've 
> got a slow dialup, 40Kbps. I see a few "bundles" at OSL, but none seem 
> to be what I need--a collection of ubiquitous source modules that 
> cover most of the common general needs and the prerequisites. Is there 
> such a thing? Can somebody point me to a tarball? I suppose there's a 
> module for dynamically downloading modules. Seems to me I might find 
> that useful or "bits & bobs! " but I'd like to NOT have to use that 
> from this position. Any recommendations? TIA
If I'm understanding you correctly, maybe taking a look at the default 
strawberry perl install may give you a starter set? It seems to contain 
a lot of common use modules, built for windows obviously, but I imagine 
the build list shouldn't be too far out of reach.

-Erik

From schwern at pobox.com  Wed Jan  6 18:48:09 2010
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:48:09 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
In-Reply-To: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
References: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
Message-ID: <4B454B69.5070600@pobox.com>

paul rogers wrote:
> My system is one I built under guidance of LFS. It's essentially a user 
> workstation. I'm not developing anything, i.e. don't need SVN, just 
> keeping this "useful". It has perl-5.8.7, and whatever "standard" 
> modules it comes with. I got a digital camera for Xmas, so I'm adding 
> support. GIMP seems necessary, and I can't build that without 
> XML::Parse. Once upon a time, maybe 5 years ago, I had a CPAN "bundle" 
> which I apparently lost on a flakey drive. I took a look at CPAN today, 
> and it's grown out of hand! ;-) I really don't want to hunt and peck 
> downloading modules one at a time, I don't need it all, and I've got a 
> slow dialup, 40Kbps. I see a few "bundles" at OSL, but none seem to be 
> what I need--a collection of ubiquitous source modules that cover most 
> of the common general needs and the prerequisites. Is there such a 
> thing? Can somebody point me to a tarball?

Many have tried, all have failed.  The greatest hurdle is defining what is 
"common" for a general purpose programming language.

The closest anyone has come is this attempt to list recommended modules for 
various uses.
http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?recommended_cpan_modules


> I suppose there's a module 
> for dynamically downloading modules. Seems to me I might find that 
> useful or "bits & bobs! " but I'd like to NOT have to use that from this 
> position. Any recommendations? TIA

You have two practical choices:

* Install CPAN modules using the package manager that comes with your 
operating system.  This is the least work for the casual user.

* Install them with the CPAN shell.  Here is a good tutorial.
http://learnperl.scratchcomputing.com/tutorials/configuration/

What you do not want to do is try to install them "by hand".  This is because 
the dependency chains for even for the most trivial CPAN module tend to be 
long.  Let either the CPAN shell or your package manager deal with this.


-- 
101. I am not allowed to mount a bayonet on a crew-served weapon.
     -- The 213 Things Skippy Is No Longer Allowed To Do In The U.S. Army
            http://skippyslist.com/list/

From erik at hollensbe.org  Wed Jan  6 18:54:15 2010
From: erik at hollensbe.org (Erik Hollensbe)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:54:15 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
In-Reply-To: <4B454B69.5070600@pobox.com>
References: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
	<4B454B69.5070600@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4B454CD7.7030902@hollensbe.org>

On 1/6/2010 9:48 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> paul rogers wrote:
>> My system is one I built under guidance of LFS. It's essentially a 
>> user workstation. I'm not developing anything, i.e. don't need SVN, 
>> just keeping this "useful". It has perl-5.8.7, and whatever 
>> "standard" modules it comes with. I got a digital camera for Xmas, so 
>> I'm adding support. GIMP seems necessary, and I can't build that 
>> without XML::Parse. Once upon a time, maybe 5 years ago, I had a CPAN 
>> "bundle" which I apparently lost on a flakey drive. I took a look at 
>> CPAN today, and it's grown out of hand! ;-) I really don't want to 
>> hunt and peck downloading modules one at a time, I don't need it all, 
>> and I've got a slow dialup, 40Kbps. I see a few "bundles" at OSL, but 
>> none seem to be what I need--a collection of ubiquitous source 
>> modules that cover most of the common general needs and the 
>> prerequisites. Is there such a thing? Can somebody point me to a 
>> tarball?
>
> Many have tried, all have failed.  The greatest hurdle is defining 
> what is "common" for a general purpose programming language.
>
> The closest anyone has come is this attempt to list recommended 
> modules for various uses.
> http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?recommended_cpan_modules
>
>
>> I suppose there's a module for dynamically downloading modules. Seems 
>> to me I might find that useful or "bits & bobs! " but I'd like to NOT 
>> have to use that from this position. Any recommendations? TIA
>
> You have two practical choices:
>
> * Install CPAN modules using the package manager that comes with your 
> operating system.  This is the least work for the casual user.
>
> * Install them with the CPAN shell.  Here is a good tutorial.
> http://learnperl.scratchcomputing.com/tutorials/configuration/
>
> What you do not want to do is try to install them "by hand".  This is 
> because the dependency chains for even for the most trivial CPAN 
> module tend to be long.  Let either the CPAN shell or your package 
> manager deal with this.
>
>

If you wish to script this process, I've had good success automating dev 
environment setup with Module::Install (and 
Module::Install::AutoInstall). You still have to do first-time 
configuration of CPAN, though.

-Erik

From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Wed Jan  6 21:27:39 2010
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:27:39 +0200
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
In-Reply-To: <4B454B69.5070600@pobox.com>
References: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
	<4B454B69.5070600@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <201001070727.39395.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

On Thursday 07 Jan 2010 04:48:09 Michael G Schwern wrote:
> paul rogers wrote:
> > My system is one I built under guidance of LFS. It's essentially a user
> > workstation. I'm not developing anything, i.e. don't need SVN, just
> > keeping this "useful". It has perl-5.8.7, and whatever "standard"
> > modules it comes with. I got a digital camera for Xmas, so I'm adding
> > support. GIMP seems necessary, and I can't build that without
> > XML::Parse. Once upon a time, maybe 5 years ago, I had a CPAN "bundle"
> > which I apparently lost on a flakey drive. I took a look at CPAN today,
> > and it's grown out of hand! ;-) I really don't want to hunt and peck
> > downloading modules one at a time, I don't need it all, and I've got a
> > slow dialup, 40Kbps. I see a few "bundles" at OSL, but none seem to be
> > what I need--a collection of ubiquitous source modules that cover most
> > of the common general needs and the prerequisites. Is there such a
> > thing? Can somebody point me to a tarball?
> 
> Many have tried, all have failed.  The greatest hurdle is defining what is
> "common" for a general purpose programming language.
> 
> The closest anyone has come is this attempt to list recommended modules for
> various uses.
> http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?recommended_cpan_modules
> 
> > I suppose there's a module
> > for dynamically downloading modules. Seems to me I might find that
> > useful or "bits & bobs! " but I'd like to NOT have to use that from this
> > position. Any recommendations? TIA
> 
> You have two practical choices:
> 
> * Install CPAN modules using the package manager that comes with your
> operating system.  This is the least work for the casual user.
> 
> * Install them with the CPAN shell.  Here is a good tutorial.
> http://learnperl.scratchcomputing.com/tutorials/configuration/
> 

With Linux From Scratch (LFS), he doesn't have any other option. I've 
concentrated the relevant resources about CPAN here:

http://perl-begin.org/topics/cpan/

However, it seems that with perl-5.8.7 (as perl-5.8.8 was released in 
2-February-2006 - http://dev.perl.org/perl5/news/2006/perl-5.8.8.html and 
there's already perl-5.8.9 and perl-5.10.1) and probably a lot of other out-
of-date stuff, the OP's system is in a very sorry state. I suggest that he 
installs a decent, maintainable distribution there.

> What you do not want to do is try to install them "by hand".  This is
>  because the dependency chains for even for the most trivial CPAN module
>  tend to be long.  Let either the CPAN shell or your package manager deal
>  with this.
> 

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
First stop for Perl beginners - http://perl-begin.org/

Bzr is slower than Subversion in combination with Sourceforge. 
( By: http://dazjorz.com/ )

From michael at jamhome.us  Thu Jan  7 04:38:50 2010
From: michael at jamhome.us (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 04:38:50 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
In-Reply-To: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
References: <20100106202813.HM.0000000000000Sw@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
Message-ID: <20100107123850.GA6456@jamhome.us>

On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 08:28:13PM -0500, paul rogers wrote:
> My system is one I built under guidance of LFS. It's essentially a user workstation. ... I've got a slow dialup, 40Kbps. I see a few "bundles" at OSL, but none seem to be what I need--a collection of ubiquitous source modules that cover most of the common general needs and the prerequisites. Is there such a thing? Can somebody point me to a tarball? I suppose there's a module for dynamically downloading modules. Seems to me I might find that useful or "bits & bobs!
>  " but I'd like to NOT have to use that from this position. Any recommendations? TIA 

Is part of your concern accessing the unknown sized batch of modules
through your 40Kbps connection?  If so, consider taking your machine to
the PLUG monthly clinic at Free Geek and getting your base installation
(using CPAN as others have suggested) of modules to support XML::Parse
installed. During the clinic you could work out your full Gimp install.

Why do you feel Gimp is necessary for integration with your digital
camera?  For light editing showFoto and/or ImageMagick provide many
capabilities.  showFoto has many common transformations available in an
interface that's condusive to quick work.

For transferring photos from your camera and organizing them digiKam
and F-Spot are recommended.

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
          http://www.jamhome.us/
The Fortune Cookie Fortune today is:
	A man was reading The Canterbury Tales one Saturday morning, when his
wife asked "What have you got there?"  Replied he, "Just my cup and Chaucer."

From paulgrogers at lycos.com  Thu Jan  7 11:45:08 2010
From: paulgrogers at lycos.com (paul rogers)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:45:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
Message-ID: <20100107144508.HM.0000000000000TB@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>

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From paulgrogers at lycos.com  Thu Jan  7 11:59:28 2010
From: paulgrogers at lycos.com (paul rogers)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:59:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [RE]CPAN
Message-ID: <20100107145928.HM.0000000000000TD@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>

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From erik at hollensbe.org  Thu Jan  7 12:04:30 2010
From: erik at hollensbe.org (Erik Hollensbe)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:04:30 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [RE]CPAN
In-Reply-To: <20100107145928.HM.0000000000000TD@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
References: <20100107145928.HM.0000000000000TD@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
Message-ID: <4B463E4E.8090008@hollensbe.org>

On 1/7/2010 2:59 PM, paul rogers wrote:
> >If you wish to script this process, I've had good success automating dev
> >environment setup with Module::Install (and
> >Module::Install::AutoInstall). You still have to do first-time
> >configuration of CPAN, though.
>
> I'm giving that a try.
>
> >With Linux From Scratch (LFS), he doesn't have any other option. I've
>
> Correct.
Your system is your business, but if you want a lean system that has 
modern amenities, NetBSD and FreeBSD can probably deal with your 
hardware a lot better than a recent 2.6 kernel and environment. I'll 
leave this topic alone after this email, but I wanted to exclaim that 
you have a more options if you wish to explore them.

-Erik

From paulgrogers at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan  7 12:13:50 2010
From: paulgrogers at fastmail.fm (Paul Rogers)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 12:13:50 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Change of address
Message-ID: <1262895230.31752.1353489789@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Sorry, guys, guess the lycos address wouldn't sent text as instructed.
This should work better.
-- 
Paul Rogers
paulgrogers at fastmail.fm
http://www.xprt.net/~pgrogers/
Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates."
(I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-)

  	

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free


From enobacon at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 12:49:45 2010
From: enobacon at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 12:49:45 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
In-Reply-To: <20100107145928.HM.0000000000000TD@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
References: <20100107145928.HM.0000000000000TD@paulgrogers.mail-wwl11.bo3.lycos.com.lycos.com>
Message-ID: <201001071249.45169.enobacon@gmail.com>

# from paul rogers
# on Thursday 07 January 2010 11:59:

>I've been running this system on 64MB classic 586 Pentiums.

I have to wonder about the electricity cost vs a $40 ~1GHz system from 
freegeek.  Old power supplies were terribly innefficient (not that some 
newer ones aren't) and the old CPU does a lot less computation per kWh.

(Meanwhile, pondering trade-off of deploying some really inefficient 
code vs the carbon footprint of writing a replacement.)

--Eric
-- 
Cult: A small, unpopular religion.
Religion: A large, popular cult.
-- Unknown
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From paulgrogers at fastmail.fm  Fri Jan  8 15:58:48 2010
From: paulgrogers at fastmail.fm (Paul Rogers)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:58:48 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1262980860.32423.pdx-pm-list@pm.org>
References: <mailman.13.1262980860.32423.pdx-pm-list@pm.org>
Message-ID: <1262995128.28735.1353700751@webmail.messagingengine.com>

> Your system is your business, but if you want a lean system that has
> modern amenities, NetBSD and FreeBSD can probably deal with your

FWIW, I bought my 486 in '91 with the intent of running BSD-386 on it. I
never found a source, the first *nix it saw was RHL6.1 "Publisher's
version", Cartman, out of a book.

> hardware a lot better than a recent 2.6 kernel and environment. I'll
> leave this topic alone after this email, but I wanted to exclaim that
> you have a more options if you wish to explore them.

Yes, I'm aware of that.  Got a DVD's here from LXF with a variety of
distros.  Still, you almost quoted LFS' motto: Your system, your rules.
The advantage the LFS route has given me is knowledge of how a system
goes together.  (I back-ported the toolchain 10 years when I found a CD
with most of the software on it, and it runs everyday on my 18 year-old
486/33.  I hate to see a good horse put down when it's still healthy.  
The thing is, I could do that with OSS!)  Linux, after all, is just a 
kernel, much of the stuff it runs is GNU.  I don't even like big kernel
systems, as I never liked DOS, nor the 8080 in my IMSAI.  Sometimes
design elegance just gets overwhelmed by ubiquitous.

> I have to wonder about the electricity cost vs a $40 ~1GHz system from

Meaning for the 90% of think time it's waiting for me to press a key?
Linux turns the CPU off most of that time, but the kind of inefficiency
you're talking about comes in large part from other parts of the system
that are on all the time, whether in my old 233's or the newer salvage.

> freegeek.  Old power supplies were terribly innefficient (not that

Old?  You mean the linear in my IMSAI that had a 15# transformer in it,
capacitors the size of soup cans?  ;-)

> some newer ones aren't) and the old CPU does a lot less computation
> per kWh.

True enough.  But, as I'm sure you know, it's not a simple issue.  I'm
told by a buddy who works at a well-known local manufacturer and would
be in a position to know, the 1.4GHz Tualatin I'm running at the moment
works about as well as a 2GHz P4.  We've had some spirited discussions
about just what kind of computing power the average user needs.  An Atom
would probably do.

> (Meanwhile, pondering trade-off of deploying some really inefficient
> code vs the carbon footprint of writing a replacement.)

Wrong question, IMNSHO.  Which is more "robust" during it's lifecycle?
-- 
Paul Rogers
paulgrogers at fastmail.fm
http://www.xprt.net/~pgrogers/
Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates."
(I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-)

  	

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.


From enobacon at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 00:57:21 2010
From: enobacon at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:57:21 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Tonight:  How to Lie Like a Geek
Message-ID: <201001130057.21391.enobacon@gmail.com>

see http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/

Wed. January 13th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.

How to Lie Like a Geek
speaker: Michael Schwern

Geeks have a special relationship with The Truth. Nothing is more 
important than correcting a falsehood, no matter how small, and nothing 
is more odious than not telling The Truth. Unfortunately, in speaking 
The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, the meaning is often mangled 
and the end result is the opposite, a lie.

We?ll examine some ways geeks lie while telling The Truth, to themselves 
and to others, and hopefully achieve better communications, easier to 
understand interfaces and maybe some personal enlightenment.

Some examples include: Lies by omission, lies by precision, lies by 
irrelevancy, lies by design, lies with statistics and that most 
dangerous of words ?should? as in ?the user should have realized?.

There will be cake.
  http://tinyurl.com/mermtx


As always, the meeting will be followed by social hour at the LuckyLab.
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From david at kineticode.com  Wed Jan 13 16:32:19 2010
From: david at kineticode.com (David E. Wheeler)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:32:19 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Adapter for Schwern
Message-ID: <EC55736C-F42B-47D5-8B26-BF1AB5A4728E@kineticode.com>

PDXers,

Can anyone bring a MacBook Mini-DVI to VGA adapter for Schwern tonight? He has a first-gen MacBook with the smaller adapter: http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9320G/A.

Thanks!

David (for Schwern)


From kellert at ohsu.edu  Wed Jan 13 16:55:52 2010
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Tom Keller)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:55:52 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Adapter for Schwern
In-Reply-To: <EC55736C-F42B-47D5-8B26-BF1AB5A4728E@kineticode.com>
References: <EC55736C-F42B-47D5-8B26-BF1AB5A4728E@kineticode.com>
Message-ID: <F9949172-3580-4FCB-A471-C37A1A8B4726@ohsu.edu>

I can bring the adaptor and a projector.

... may be a few minutes late though. 

Thomas (Tom) Keller, PhD
kellert at ohsu.edu
503.494.2442
6339b R Jones Hall (BSc/CROET)
www.ohsu.edu/xd/research/research-cores/dna-analysis/

On Jan 13, 2010, at 4:32 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote:

> PDXers,
> 
> Can anyone bring a MacBook Mini-DVI to VGA adapter for Schwern tonight? He has a first-gen MacBook with the smaller adapter: http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9320G/A.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> David (for Schwern)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list


From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Thu Jan 14 19:25:20 2010
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:25:20 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] looking for work
Message-ID: <86eilsaw2n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>


I had a great gig for 9 months working for some really cool people,
and I just found out I'm in the final month of my involvement of
the project.

I'm looking for contract work, either project-based, short or long term,
preferably telecommute although I'll be onsite as often as my travel costs are
paid for.

Obviously, Perl work would be the best match, but I can also do net-admin,
sysadmin, techwriting, or Smalltalk.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From igal at pragmaticraft.com  Fri Jan 15 01:28:09 2010
From: igal at pragmaticraft.com (Igal Koshevoy)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:28:09 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Open Source Bridge 2010 town hall meeting on January 28
Message-ID: <f10306b1001150128k745bdf71j2e3507eedd595497@mail.gmail.com>

We're busy planning the Open Source Bridge 2010 conference in Portland:
* Attend our town hall on January 28: http://calagator.org/events/1250458164
* Subscribe to our blog: http://opensourcebridge.org/
* Join our mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/osbridge
* Follow @osbridge: http://twitter.com/osbridge && http://identi.ca/osbridge
* Obey @osbridgebot: http://twitter.com/osbridgebot &&
http://identi.ca/osbridgebot

See you at the town hall!

-igal

...

The Conference for Open Source Citizens is back in 2010, this time
with MORE:

   * Sessions for collaborative hacking
   * Coffee in the afternoon
   * Ways to grow our community
   * Fabulous opportunities to volunteer
   * and... MORE COOKIES!


Join the Open Source Bridge Organization Team for a Town Hall at
Nedspace Oldtown on Thursday, January 28 at 7pm. We'll be sharing with
you our plans for this year's conference as well as announcing the
date we'll open the call for proposals. We also want to hear your
input about the sessions you'd like to see this year.

Open Source Bridge cannot happen without community involvement. Come
hear the volunteer opportunities we need filled and sign up to make
your event a success.

What:   Open Source Bridge Town Hall
Where: Nedspace, Oldtown - 117 NW Fifth Ave. (btwn Couch and Davis)
When:  Thursday, January 28, 7PM
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From triddle at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 11:21:39 2010
From: triddle at gmail.com (Tyler Riddle)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 11:21:39 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Any interest in a talk on how to parse huge XML documents?
Message-ID: <f7203f151001161121t7a3e5d96q428ca6d8b2f985e2@mail.gmail.com>

I've been pondering sharing my experiences dealing with parsing the
MediaWiki dump files which for the English Wikipedia presently sits
around 40 gigabytes. Such XML poses significant issues and I've
learned a lot by creating the Parse::MediaWikiDump and
MediaWiki::DumpFile modules on CPAN. While I personally find this
topic to be quite interesting XML in general seems to put people to
sleep best case and into permanent comas with their brains leaking out
of their ears in the worst case. As such I'm going to let the list
decide if it's worth me putting into the time and effort to make a
presentation. Feel free to discuss, vote, or use what ever democratic
or anarchistic decision methods are suitable to figure this out.

The name of the talk would be "How to learn to work with XML by doing
it wrong for 5 years" with the caveat that I'm not sure I'm doing it
right yet. Audience participation would be welcome and encouraged to
bring any other insight possible.

Tyler Riddle

-- 
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent
the universe. -- Carl Sagan

From triddle at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 12:29:31 2010
From: triddle at gmail.com (Tyler Riddle)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:29:31 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Any interest in a talk on how to parse huge XML
	documents?
In-Reply-To: <48bb92b1001161218y683301a9jd94e3784cee09dc2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7203f151001161121t7a3e5d96q428ca6d8b2f985e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<48bb92b1001161218y683301a9jd94e3784cee09dc2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f7203f151001161229v15b03e2u8d43be6a8063a1a1@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for risk of coma

If there is any brain leakage perhaps a project could be undergone to
create a sort of perl Frankenstein that would have the experience of
the whole audience. When life gives you lemons make lemonade!

Tyler

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:18 PM, gabrielle <gorthx at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Tyler Riddle <triddle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The name of the talk would be "How to learn to work with XML by doing
>> it wrong for 5 years" with the caveat that I'm not sure I'm doing it
>> right yet. Audience participation would be welcome and encouraged to
>> bring any other insight possible.
>
> I'm willing to risk a coma.
>
> gabrielle
>



-- 
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent
the universe. -- Carl Sagan

From brent.dombrowski at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 16:03:42 2010
From: brent.dombrowski at gmail.com (Brent Dombrowski)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:03:42 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Any interest in a talk on how to parse huge XML
	documents?
In-Reply-To: <e24306fb1001161601p13dcdc54k1ff4d74779b4bcd9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7203f151001161121t7a3e5d96q428ca6d8b2f985e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<e24306fb1001161601p13dcdc54k1ff4d74779b4bcd9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e24306fb1001161603r7b2dffffx3a621d0be5927935@mail.gmail.com>

+1.

As long as it's not scheduled for zombie night, the brain leakage shouldn't
be a problem.

Brent.

On Jan 16, 2010 11:22 AM, "Tyler Riddle" <triddle at gmail.com> wrote:

I've been pondering sharing my experiences dealing with parsing the
MediaWiki dump files which for the English Wikipedia presently sits
around 40 gigabytes. Such XML poses significant issues and I've
learned a lot by creating the Parse::MediaWikiDump and
MediaWiki::DumpFile modules on CPAN. While I personally find this
topic to be quite interesting XML in general seems to put people to
sleep best case and into permanent comas with their brains leaking out
of their ears in the worst case. As such I'm going to let the list
decide if it's worth me putting into the time and effort to make a
presentation. Feel free to discuss, vote, or use what ever democratic
or anarchistic decision methods are suitable to figure this out.

The name of the talk would be "How to learn to work with XML by doing
it wrong for 5 years" with the caveat that I'm not sure I'm doing it
right yet. Audience participation would be welcome and encouraged to
bring any other insight possible.

Tyler Riddle

--
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent
the universe. -- Carl Sagan
_______________________________________________
Pdx-pm-list mailing list
Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
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From jeffery.hammock at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 12:44:41 2010
From: jeffery.hammock at gmail.com (Jeff Hammock)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:44:41 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Any interest in a talk on how to parse huge
	XML	documents?
In-Reply-To: <f7203f151001161229v15b03e2u8d43be6a8063a1a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7203f151001161121t7a3e5d96q428ca6d8b2f985e2@mail.gmail.com>	<48bb92b1001161218y683301a9jd94e3784cee09dc2@mail.gmail.com>
	<f7203f151001161229v15b03e2u8d43be6a8063a1a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B522539.9050600@gmail.com>

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From triddle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 11:39:03 2010
From: triddle at gmail.com (Tyler Riddle)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:39:03 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Seeking job referrals
Message-ID: <f7203f151001251139m78293634h96fa3c97db58a512@mail.gmail.com>

Hello fellow mongers,

I'm available on the job market. If any of you know of open positions
in your companies I would appreciate it if you could send my resume
towards your HR department or even better who ever would be making the
hiring decisions. My resume is up on Craig's List available at
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/res/1569992810.html

Thank you kindly and happy perl hacking,

Tyler Riddle

-- 
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent
the universe. -- Carl Sagan

From enobacon at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 12:56:00 2010
From: enobacon at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:56:00 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Introduction to Parrot -- February meeting in 2 weeks
Message-ID: <201001271256.00736.enobacon@gmail.com>

see http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/

Wed. February 10th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.

Introduction to Parrot Virtual Machine
speaker: Jonathan Leto

Come learn the basic things you need to know about Parrot Virtual 
Machine to start hacking on

 1) Parrot VM itself 
 2) Languages built on top of Parrot, High Level Languages (HLLs) 
 3) Projects and Libraries that use Parrot 

A short, down-to-earth introduction to the current state of Parrot will 
be followed by examples on how to hack on Parrot projects or how to 
start your own.


As always, the meeting will be followed by social hour at the LuckyLab. 
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From kellert at ohsu.edu  Wed Jan 27 13:16:24 2010
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Tom Keller)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:16:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Introduction to Parrot -- February meeting in 2 weeks
In-Reply-To: <201001271256.00736.enobacon@gmail.com>
References: <201001271256.00736.enobacon@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B80E41D-15C6-4E7F-BD17-A86DEF116DE5@ohsu.edu>

A brief discussion/prediction of where Parrot will fit into "production" environments would be appreciated too. For me Perl is a tool to make me and co-workers more efficient and less error prone. We use it to automate processes that would otherwise require cutting and pasting, typing, selecting from lists, etc.: data munging and also batch processing of on-line data sources. 

How will Parrot help with these and other practical tasks?

thanks,
Tom

Thomas (Tom) Keller, PhD
kellert at ohsu.edu
503.494.2442
6339b R Jones Hall (BSc/CROET)
www.ohsu.edu/xd/research/research-cores/dna-analysis/

On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Seven till Seven wrote:

> see http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/
> 
> Wed. February 10th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.
> 
> Introduction to Parrot Virtual Machine
> speaker: Jonathan Leto
> 
> Come learn the basic things you need to know about Parrot Virtual 
> Machine to start hacking on
> 
> 1) Parrot VM itself 
> 2) Languages built on top of Parrot, High Level Languages (HLLs) 
> 3) Projects and Libraries that use Parrot 
> 
> A short, down-to-earth introduction to the current state of Parrot will 
> be followed by examples on how to hack on Parrot projects or how to 
> start your own.
> 
> 
> As always, the meeting will be followed by social hour at the LuckyLab. 
> -- 
> 
>        http://pdx.pm.org
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list


From bruce at drangle.com  Wed Jan 27 15:11:12 2010
From: bruce at drangle.com (Bruce Keeler)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:11:12 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Introduction to Parrot -- February meeting in 2 weeks
In-Reply-To: <7B80E41D-15C6-4E7F-BD17-A86DEF116DE5@ohsu.edu>
References: <201001271256.00736.enobacon@gmail.com>
	<7B80E41D-15C6-4E7F-BD17-A86DEF116DE5@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <4B60C810.60006@drangle.com>

On 1/27/2010 1:16 PM, Tom Keller wrote:
> A brief discussion/prediction of where Parrot will fit into "production" environments would be appreciated too. For me Perl is a tool to make me and co-workers more efficient and less error prone. We use it to automate processes that would otherwise require cutting and pasting, typing, selecting from lists, etc.: data munging and also batch processing of on-line data sources.
>
> How will Parrot help with these and other practical tasks?
>
>    
Ultimately, it will help by being the thing on which Rakudo (the leading 
and de-facto "official" version of Perl 6) will run.  The day when we'll 
all be writing those data-munging scripts in Perl 6 instead of Perl 5 is 
probably still a ways off, but those guys are making steady and 
accelerating progress in that direction.

Parrot itself is shaping up to be a dream platform for implementing 
languages.  I found myself with some tuits a few months ago, and decided 
to check out Cardinal (ruby on parrot).  It was very easy to learn the 
basics and jump in.  And I don't even know Ruby!  Unfortunately, I ran 
out of tuits shortly after (which is to say the World of Warcraft 
expansion came out ;)



From jaleto at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 19:51:47 2010
From: jaleto at gmail.com (Jonathan Leto)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:51:47 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Introduction to Parrot -- February meeting in 2 weeks
In-Reply-To: <7B80E41D-15C6-4E7F-BD17-A86DEF116DE5@ohsu.edu>
References: <201001271256.00736.enobacon@gmail.com>
	<7B80E41D-15C6-4E7F-BD17-A86DEF116DE5@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <9aaadf9c1001271951v782ebaa8u220b5cfb66c4f254@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Tom Keller <kellert at ohsu.edu> wrote:
> A brief discussion/prediction of where Parrot will fit into "production" environments would be appreciated too. For me Perl is a tool to make me and co-workers more efficient and less error prone. We use it to automate processes that would otherwise require cutting and pasting, typing, selecting from lists, etc.: data munging and also batch processing of on-line data sources.

I will be sure to talk about this. What I can say now is, Parrot VM
and Perl 5 don't quite compete in the same niche.  There will be
languages built on top of Parrot, (such as Rakudo Perl 6) that *will*
compete in the same niche. I will talk about those.

> How will Parrot help with these and other practical tasks?

Parrot *will* help with many practical tasks. Languages that run on
top of Parrot will be able to share libraries. This is a *huge* amount
of time-savings for people who write these libraries. I will go into
this more at the meeting.

Duke


> thanks,
> Tom
>
> Thomas (Tom) Keller, PhD
> kellert at ohsu.edu
> 503.494.2442
> 6339b R Jones Hall (BSc/CROET)
> www.ohsu.edu/xd/research/research-cores/dna-analysis/
>
> On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Seven till Seven wrote:
>
>> see http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/
>>
>> Wed. February 10th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.
>>
>> Introduction to Parrot Virtual Machine
>> speaker: Jonathan Leto
>>
>> Come learn the basic things you need to know about Parrot Virtual
>> Machine to start hacking on
>>
>> 1) Parrot VM itself
>> 2) Languages built on top of Parrot, High Level Languages (HLLs)
>> 3) Projects and Libraries that use Parrot
>>
>> A short, down-to-earth introduction to the current state of Parrot will
>> be followed by examples on how to hack on Parrot projects or how to
>> start your own.
>>
>>
>> As always, the meeting will be followed by social hour at the LuckyLab.
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ?http://pdx.pm.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
>> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>



-- 
Jonathan "Duke" Leto
jonathan at leto.net
http://leto.net

From kris at bosland.com  Fri Jan 29 20:02:24 2010
From: kris at bosland.com (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:02:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Looking for a good Windows Admin support group or web
	site
Message-ID: <269469d51001292002g73d65fcctd0b96efe28e8dbac@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry this is offtopic, but are there any good windows support groups in the
area, or would people recommend a particular online community?  I would like
to start doing more administration of the windows machines my family uses
and I am looking for resources.

Thanks.

-Kris
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From jaleto at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 20:15:29 2010
From: jaleto at gmail.com (Jonathan Leto)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:15:29 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Looking for a good Windows Admin support group or
	web site
In-Reply-To: <269469d51001292002g73d65fcctd0b96efe28e8dbac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <269469d51001292002g73d65fcctd0b96efe28e8dbac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9aaadf9c1001292015t4f4703fcr1e723fb1248c1874@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

You should unsubscribe and ask somewhere else.

Duke


2010/1/29 Kris Bosland <kris at bosland.com>:
> Sorry this is offtopic, but are there any good windows support groups in the
> area, or would people recommend a particular online community?? I would like
> to start doing more administration of the windows machines my family uses
> and I am looking for resources.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Kris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>



-- 
Jonathan "Duke" Leto
jonathan at leto.net
http://leto.net

From enobacon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 22:03:44 2010
From: enobacon at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:03:44 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Looking for a good Windows Admin support group or
	web site
In-Reply-To: <9aaadf9c1001292015t4f4703fcr1e723fb1248c1874@mail.gmail.com>
References: <269469d51001292002g73d65fcctd0b96efe28e8dbac@mail.gmail.com>
	<9aaadf9c1001292015t4f4703fcr1e723fb1248c1874@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201001292203.44934.enobacon@gmail.com>

# from Jonathan Leto
# on Friday 29 January 2010 20:15:

>You should unsubscribe and ask somewhere else.

Well.  Now that's uncalledfor.  Especially from a top-poster.  ;-)

>2010/1/29 Kris Bosland <kris at bosland.com>:
>> Sorry this is offtopic, but are there any good windows support
>> groups in the area, or would people recommend a particular online
>> community?? I would like to start doing more administration of the
>> windows machines my family uses and I am looking for resources.

You may well need a support group if you're going to admin a lot of 
family machines with windows.  Nothing jumps out at me, but you might 
want to peruse calagator:

  http://calagator.org/events/search?query=windows


My family runs Linux and yours probably could too.  Maybe visit the PLUG 
clinic on the third Sunday at Free Geek.

But it is indeed off-topic Kris, unless you're thinking of giving a talk 
on automating windows administration with Perl, which would be quite 
interesting.  But it's not like we're suffering from excessive chatter 
at the moment.

--Eric
-- 
"But as to modern architecture, let us drop it and let us take
modernistic out and shoot it at sunrise."
--F.L. Wright
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From kris at bosland.com  Sat Jan 30 08:36:30 2010
From: kris at bosland.com (Kris Bosland)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:36:30 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Looking for a good Windows Admin support group or
	web site
In-Reply-To: <201001292203.44934.enobacon@gmail.com>
References: <269469d51001292002g73d65fcctd0b96efe28e8dbac@mail.gmail.com>
	<9aaadf9c1001292015t4f4703fcr1e723fb1248c1874@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001292203.44934.enobacon@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <269469d51001300836x2bc09ca5r267eeb7e31792647@mail.gmail.com>

# from Jonathan Leto

> # on Friday 29 January 2010 20:15:
>
> >You should unsubscribe and ask somewhere else.
>
> Well.  Now that's uncalledfor.  Especially from a top-poster.  ;-)
>

For my part, I will apologize again, and stop taking up the lists bits after
this message.


> calagator:
>
>  http://calagator.org/events/search?query=windows
>



> PLUG clinic on the third Sunday at Free Geek.
>
> Thanks for the pointers



> But it is indeed off-topic Kris, unless you're thinking of giving a talk
> on automating windows administration with Perl, which would be quite
> interesting.
>

I do use Perl on Windows for any simple tasks I need to do there.  If I find
something interesting enough to discuss, I will submit a proposal for a
talk.


>
> --Eric
> --
>

Thanks again,

-Kris
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From ben.prew at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 12:34:59 2010
From: ben.prew at gmail.com (Ben Prew)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:34:59 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Looking for a good Windows Admin support group or
	web site
In-Reply-To: <269469d51001300836x2bc09ca5r267eeb7e31792647@mail.gmail.com>
References: <269469d51001292002g73d65fcctd0b96efe28e8dbac@mail.gmail.com> 
	<9aaadf9c1001292015t4f4703fcr1e723fb1248c1874@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201001292203.44934.enobacon@gmail.com>
	<269469d51001300836x2bc09ca5r267eeb7e31792647@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <24f4b2e81001301234u7678c1f5we18891b2d2505acb@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I'll bite...

I also do a little "family" administration of Windows machines and I've
found that setting up something like Cygwin works pretty well, you can even
setup ssh, although it's a little tedious, but if you use Linux, you're used
to that already :)

Another good option for remote administration is to setup something like
tightvnc (with a password!), or gotomypc [1].  As far as local resources go,
I don't really have anything, but I've found both of those things have made
it easier to do common types of remote tasks.

To pry further, what types of administration are you looking to do, like
setting up IIS, or just "best practices" for home/desktop machines?

Good luck

[1] https://www.gotomypc.com

2010/1/30 Kris Bosland <kris at bosland.com>

> # from Jonathan Leto
>
>> # on Friday 29 January 2010 20:15:
>>
>> >You should unsubscribe and ask somewhere else.
>>
>> Well.  Now that's uncalledfor.  Especially from a top-poster.  ;-)
>>
>
> For my part, I will apologize again, and stop taking up the lists bits
> after this message.
>
>
>> calagator:
>>
>>  http://calagator.org/events/search?query=windows
>>
>
>
>
>> PLUG clinic on the third Sunday at Free Geek.
>>
>> Thanks for the pointers
>
>
>
>> But it is indeed off-topic Kris, unless you're thinking of giving a talk
>> on automating windows administration with Perl, which would be quite
>> interesting.
>>
>
> I do use Perl on Windows for any simple tasks I need to do there.  If I
> find something interesting enough to discuss, I will submit a proposal for a
> talk.
>
>
>>
>> --Eric
>> --
>>
>
> Thanks again,
>
> -Kris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>



-- 
--Ben
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