From mikeraz at patch.com  Fri Nov  2 07:27:53 2007
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:27:53 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] google fails me on Yak Washing
Message-ID: <20071102142753.GA30622@patch.com>

Not handwashing, or bathing yaks, or yaks in general.  I'm looking for a link
about Yak Washing meaning procrastination activities (like writing this rather
than getting on the commute).

I'm sure (yea right) I encountered the expression here.  Could someone please
provide a link?

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
          http://www.patch.com/words/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
Mr. Cole's Axiom:
	The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant;
	the population is growing.


From andy at petdance.com  Fri Nov  2 07:29:53 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:29:53 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] google fails me on Yak Washing
In-Reply-To: <20071102142753.GA30622@patch.com>
References: <20071102142753.GA30622@patch.com>
Message-ID: <9D6CD8BC-12B8-4D4E-8F1F-24CFF093BCB8@petdance.com>


On Nov 2, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Michael Rasmussen wrote:

> Not handwashing, or bathing yaks, or yaks in general.  I'm looking  
> for a link
> about Yak Washing meaning procrastination activities (like writing  
> this rather
> than getting on the commute).
>
> I'm sure (yea right) I encountered the expression here.  Could  
> someone please
> provide a link?


You want "yak shaving".

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From mikeraz at patch.com  Fri Nov  2 07:37:45 2007
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:37:45 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] google fails me on Yak Washing
In-Reply-To: <9D6CD8BC-12B8-4D4E-8F1F-24CFF093BCB8@petdance.com>
References: <20071102142753.GA30622@patch.com>
	<9D6CD8BC-12B8-4D4E-8F1F-24CFF093BCB8@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <20071102143745.GA2949@patch.com>

Andy and Allison alliteratively advised:
> You want "yak shaving".

By gum yer right.  Thank you.

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
          http://www.patch.com/words/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
The Second Law of Thermodynamics:
	If you think things are in a mess now, just wait!
		-- Jim Warner


From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 07:42:24 2007
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:42:24 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] google fails me on Yak Washing
In-Reply-To: <20071102143745.GA2949@patch.com>
References: <20071102142753.GA30622@patch.com>
	<9D6CD8BC-12B8-4D4E-8F1F-24CFF093BCB8@petdance.com>
	<20071102143745.GA2949@patch.com>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400711020742u2c33cbfewaad35634a0677b17@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 2, 2007 7:37 AM, Michael Rasmussen <mikeraz at patch.com> wrote:
> Andy and Allison alliteratively advised:
> > You want "yak shaving".
>
> By gum yer right.  Thank you.
>
i'm leaving for nepal today. if you're lucky, i may have a picture for
you when i get back, as a visual mnemonic.
~jerry

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Fri Nov  2 10:44:53 2007
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:44:53 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] google fails me on Yak Washing
In-Reply-To: <9D6CD8BC-12B8-4D4E-8F1F-24CFF093BCB8@petdance.com>
References: <20071102142753.GA30622@patch.com>
	<9D6CD8BC-12B8-4D4E-8F1F-24CFF093BCB8@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <003901c81d78$17600970$0400a8c0@mlaptop>

> You want "yak shaving".

That Andy knew this is proof positive that, contrary to the OP's .signature,
the sum of the intelligence on the planet is *increasing*!  I love keeping
company with so many smart folks!!!

-- 
Michael R. Wolf
    All mammals learn by playing!
        MichaelRWolf at att.net



From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 08:35:05 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 08:35:05 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Re: December Mixer?
Message-ID: <200711050835.05860.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hi all,

The mixer sounds fun, though we already have a speaker for December (I 
think.)  Of course, we can still have our regular meeting too.

What does everybody think about the Tuesday time-slot?  Sponsors?

--Eric

----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------

Subject: Re: December Mixer?
Date: Monday 05 November 2007 08:16
From: "Sam Keen" <sam.sjk at gmail.com>
To: "Eric Wilhelm" <ewilhelm at cpan.org>, "Audrey Eschright" 
<spinnerin at gmail.com>, "princess gabrielle" <gorthx at gmail.com>, "Jeff 
Schwaber" <freyley at gmail.com>, selenamarie at gmail.com

oops,  those proposed dates are
Dec-4 & Dec-11  (I was looking at Nov)

On 11/5/07, Sam Keen <sam.sjk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello fellow coders,
> In the PHP group we always just have a beer and pizza meeting in
> December (sort of take the month off).  This year I thought we might
> expand our horizons and mix with the other scripting / db groups.  I
> was envisioning something very casual, mostly networking but we could
> certainly make time for short presentations if groups wanted to show
> something.
>
> Not sure what plans you had for your groups in December, but if one
> large meetup with beer/soda/pizza sound good let me know and I can
> start looking for sponsors, and venue.  I picked just Python, Perl,
> PHP, PostgreSQL, Ruby for this email just to see if their was
> interest, we can expand to other groups if it looks like we want to
> do this.  Also, feel free to forward this to a different members in
> your groups if you need feedback.
>
> Some possible dates would be Dec 6th (take over Ruby meeting at
> Cubespace), or December 13th (take over PHP and Python meetings at
> cubespace).
>
> let me know what you think,
>
> cheers,
> sam keen
> pdxphp.org

-------------------------------------------------------

From kellert at ohsu.edu  Wed Nov  7 16:36:40 2007
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas Keller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:36:40 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] last directory in a path
Message-ID: <84A81625-56A7-4406-B3A4-72F9408B5575@ohsu.edu>

Hi,
I know I'll be kicking myself in a few minutes,
... but how do you pop off the parent directory from a path?
I thought dirname from File::Basename would do it
Ex: /Users/me/data/this_one/
I want to capture the string "this_one".
thanks,
Tom
MMI Shared Resource Facility
503-494-2442
kellert at ohsu.edu



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From jeff at zeroclue.com  Wed Nov  7 17:07:24 2007
From: jeff at zeroclue.com (Jeff Lavallee)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:07:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] last directory in a path
In-Reply-To: <84A81625-56A7-4406-B3A4-72F9408B5575@ohsu.edu>
References: <84A81625-56A7-4406-B3A4-72F9408B5575@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <4732614C.8080104@zeroclue.com>


You may find File::Spec->splitdir helpful


Thomas Keller wrote:
> Hi,
> I know I'll be kicking myself in a few minutes,
> ... but how do you pop off the parent directory from a path?
> I thought dirname from File::Basename would do it
> Ex: /Users/me/data/this_one/
> I want to capture the string "this_one".
> thanks,
> Tom 
> MMI Shared Resource Facility <http://www.ohsu.edu/research/core>
> 503-494-2442
> kellert at ohsu.edu <mailto:kellert at ohsu.edu>
> 
> 


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 00:22:16 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:22:16 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] meeting next Wednesday
Message-ID: <200711080022.16255.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hi all,

I seem to have no volunteer speaker for this month.

What say we have a round-table discussion?

Topic:  Declarative problem solving? (aka DSL's, etc.)

--Eric
-- 
software:  a hypothetical exercise which happens to compile.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From teknotus at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 01:09:41 2007
From: teknotus at gmail.com (Daniel Johnson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 01:09:41 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
Message-ID: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't find it in his campaign bio, but it's true!

-- 
teknotus
Take Notice

From ben.hengst at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 07:18:20 2007
From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:18:20 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] meeting next Wednesday
In-Reply-To: <200711080022.16255.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200711080022.16255.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <85ddf48b0711080718l563dc960wcd81b11ee1cbb47b@mail.gmail.com>

works for me.

On Nov 8, 2007 12:22 AM, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I seem to have no volunteer speaker for this month.
>
> What say we have a round-table discussion?
>
> Topic:  Declarative problem solving? (aka DSL's, etc.)
>
> --Eric
> --
> software:  a hypothetical exercise which happens to compile.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>



-- 
benh~

From rootbeer at redcat.com  Thu Nov  8 07:23:46 2007
From: rootbeer at redcat.com (Tom Phoenix)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:23:46 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/07, Daniel Johnson <teknotus at gmail.com> wrote:

> I didn't find it in his campaign bio, but it's true!

And is he some mysterious kind of stealth candidate, or are you
allowed to tell us his name?

--Tom Phoenix

From jeff at vpservices.com  Thu Nov  8 07:35:19 2007
From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:35:19 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
 commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com>

Tom Phoenix wrote:
> On 11/8/07, Daniel Johnson <teknotus at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> I didn't find it in his campaign bio, but it's true!
>>     
>
> And is he some mysterious kind of stealth candidate, or are you
> allowed to tell us his name?
>   
He's the one whose campaign slogan is "s/Interstate/Chavez/"

-- 
Jeff

From lemming at quirkyqatz.com  Thu Nov  8 08:01:17 2007
From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:01:17 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
 commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com>
Message-ID: <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>

Jeff Zucker wrote:
> Tom Phoenix wrote:
>   
>> On 11/8/07, Daniel Johnson <teknotus at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> I didn't find it in his campaign bio, but it's true!
>>>     
>>>       
>> And is he some mysterious kind of stealth candidate, or are you
>> allowed to tell us his name?
>>   
>>     
> He's the one whose campaign slogan is "s/Interstate/Chavez/"
>   
Are we sure he's professional, or maybe just a dabber?


From Edward.Hille at xerox.com  Thu Nov  8 09:00:41 2007
From: Edward.Hille at xerox.com (Hille, Edward A)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:00:41 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com><47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com>
	<473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
Message-ID: <E2AC8250C45254458823ED8BA138DD84030B5AEA@USA7061MS02.na.xerox.net>

Definitely more than a dabbler.

-----Original Message-----
From: pdx-pm-list-bounces+edward.hille=xerox.com at pm.org
[mailto:pdx-pm-list-bounces+edward.hille=xerox.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of
Mark
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:01 AM
To: PDX PM
Subject: Re: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland
city commissioner!

Jeff Zucker wrote:
> Tom Phoenix wrote:
>   
>> On 11/8/07, Daniel Johnson <teknotus at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> I didn't find it in his campaign bio, but it's true!
>>>     
>>>       
>> And is he some mysterious kind of stealth candidate, or are you 
>> allowed to tell us his name?
>>   
>>     
> He's the one whose campaign slogan is "s/Interstate/Chavez/"
>   
Are we sure he's professional, or maybe just a dabber?

_______________________________________________
Pdx-pm-list mailing list
Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list

From teknotus at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 09:26:04 2007
From: teknotus at gmail.com (Daniel Johnson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:26:04 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com>
Message-ID: <ec0b5e080711080926q5d887c27p8ae19540e399bc73@mail.gmail.com>

> He's the one whose campaign slogan is "s/Interstate/Chavez/"

No not that guy

-- 
teknotus
Take Notice

From teknotus at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 09:31:03 2007
From: teknotus at gmail.com (Daniel Johnson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:31:03 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com> <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
Message-ID: <ec0b5e080711080931tc4dfe29ud0588e6abf351b9e@mail.gmail.com>

> Are we sure he's professional, or maybe just a dabber?

He works for Xerox

http://www.citizensmith.us/?q=node/2

-- 
teknotus
Take Notice

From mikeraz at patch.com  Thu Nov  8 09:46:46 2007
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:46:46 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <ec0b5e080711080931tc4dfe29ud0588e6abf351b9e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com> <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
	<ec0b5e080711080931tc4dfe29ud0588e6abf351b9e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071108174646.GB10641@patch.com>

Daniel Johnson wrote:
> > Are we sure he's professional, or maybe just a dabber?
> He works for Xerox
> http://www.citizensmith.us/?q=node/2

Hey, I met that guy this morning on the Hawthorne Bridge.  He was giving out
coffee and doughnuts to bike commuters and pitching the pro-bike aspects of
his campaign.

No mention of Perl.

styrofoam cups, bleaaach.  I gave him grief for the matter. 

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
          http://www.patch.com/words/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
Cuando una dama dice no, quiere decir quiz?s; cuando dice quiz?s, quiere
decir si; y si dice si, no es una dama.
		-- Graffiti. 


From kellert at ohsu.edu  Thu Nov  8 10:06:45 2007
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas Keller)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:06:45 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] last directory in a path
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711080951430.5293-100000@nimue.int.jammed.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711080951430.5293-100000@nimue.int.jammed.com>
Message-ID: <77CA2169-32F4-4C52-9DF4-92940571F417@ohsu.edu>

In case anyone else falls into this little trap:

The problem I had with both basename and splitdir methods was the  
trailing slash:
(though I admit to being to hurried and/or lazy to read the whole  
perldoc file)

kellert$ perl filemethods.pls /Users/kellert/Documents/Computing/Logs/

Path given as argument: /Users/kellert/Documents/Computing/Logs/
splitdir method:
basename method:

kellert$ perl filemethods.pls /Users/kellert/Documents/Computing/Logs

Path given as argument: /Users/kellert/Documents/Computing/Logs
splitdir method: Logs
basename method: Logs


thanks,

Tom
MMI Shared Resource Facility
503-494-2442
kellert at ohsu.edu



On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:54 AM, James W. Abendschan wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Thomas Keller wrote:
>
>> Thanks.
>> But for some reason I get the following when I try to use basename:
>> "Can't locate object method "basename" via package "File::Spec" at
>> filespec_methods.pls line 13."
>
> basename is imported from File::Basename, not File::Spec -- so
> this ought to work:
>
>  #!/usr/bin/perl
>
>  use File::Basename;
>
>  print basename("/Users/me/data/this_one/") . "\n";
>
> James
>
>


From teknotus at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:13:51 2007
From: teknotus at gmail.com (Daniel Johnson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:13:51 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <20071108174646.GB10641@patch.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com> <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
	<ec0b5e080711080931tc4dfe29ud0588e6abf351b9e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071108174646.GB10641@patch.com>
Message-ID: <ec0b5e080711081013i2962c9e1w54a9101d7d20586a@mail.gmail.com>

> Hey, I met that guy this morning on the Hawthorne Bridge.  He was giving out
> coffee and doughnuts to bike commuters and pitching the pro-bike aspects of
> his campaign.
>
> No mention of Perl.
>
> styrofoam cups, bleaaach.  I gave him grief for the matter.

The cups were purchased by a volunteer.  I think they were going to
get used ceramic mugs at goodwill, or something, but they ran out of
time.  Everyone was sad about the cups including the person who
brought them.

I was there for a while myself.  I only learned about the perl
connection because he asked me what I do for a living.  As big as the
local FOSS community is I don't think it is big enough to be a major
issue for candidates yet.  Still it would be nice to have someone in
city hall that attends OSCON.

-- 
teknotus
Take Notice

From mikeraz at patch.com  Thu Nov  8 10:52:46 2007
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:52:46 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <ec0b5e080711081013i2962c9e1w54a9101d7d20586a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com> <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
	<ec0b5e080711080931tc4dfe29ud0588e6abf351b9e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071108174646.GB10641@patch.com>
	<ec0b5e080711081013i2962c9e1w54a9101d7d20586a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071108185246.GE10641@patch.com>

Daniel Johnson wrote:
> The cups were purchased by a volunteer.  I think they were going to
> get used ceramic mugs at goodwill, or something...

He did handle it semi OK.  The volunteer knows, I hope, to get paper when
disposable are called for in the future. 

I lucked into the event. 

My normal commute goes from SE to 181st and Gresham.  Today I'm on jury duty
connected through the juror room wifi.  (40bit WEP, lownsdale_square ESSID)

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
          http://www.patch.com/words/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
I just thought of something funny...your mother.
		-- Cheech Marin


From david at kineticode.com  Fri Nov  9 00:08:13 2007
From: david at kineticode.com (David E. Wheeler)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:08:13 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Professional perl programmer running for Portland city
	commissioner!
In-Reply-To: <ec0b5e080711080931tc4dfe29ud0588e6abf351b9e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec0b5e080711080109s761f6fc7ja245a25f5971232@mail.gmail.com>
	<31086b240711080723u5493460aqd6f1a7b0bae6291e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47332CB7.4000107@vpservices.com> <473332CD.1010103@quirkyqatz.com>
	<ec0b5e080711080931tc4dfe29ud0588e6abf351b9e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CF89ABD2-82D2-49AE-95D1-C9598200BEB2@kineticode.com>

On Nov 8, 2007, at 09:31, Daniel Johnson wrote:

>> Are we sure he's professional, or maybe just a dabber?
>
> He works for Xerox
>
> http://www.citizensmith.us/?q=node/2

I know Chris. He goes to OSCON every year, and had me down to Xerox a  
couple of times to pitch Bricolage to his team (didn't work out, but  
we've stayed in occasional touch since then). He also told me over  
lunch a couple year ago that he's on some sort of commute commission  
that pushes for bike lanes and max/streetcar lines. I'm probably  
completely mis-stating it. Cool stuff.

Anyway, good guy, IMO.

Best,

David



From keithl at kl-ic.com  Sat Nov 10 12:48:51 2007
From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 12:48:51 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
Message-ID: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>


This morning, I woke to the news that my kwiki wikis were not working.  
When I accessed them, the browser coughed up (with appropriate Bill the
Cat "Ack Pft" hairball noises):

> ----------
> 
> Software error:
> 
> Undefined subroutine &Scalar::Util::weaken called at (eval 27) line 4.
>  at lib/Spoon/Base.pm line 89
> 	Spoon::Base::__ANON__('Undefined subroutine &Scalar::Util::weaken called at
> (eval 27...') called at (eval 27) line 4
> 	Spiffy::__ANON__('Kwiki::Hub=HASH(0x82bcc48)', 'Kwiki=HASH(0x827205c)')
> called at lib/Spoon/Boot/Base.pm line 26
> 	Spoon::Boot::Base::init('Kwiki::Boot::V1=HASH(0x8237bd0)') called at
> lib/Spoon/Boot/Base.pm line 9
> 	Spoon::Boot::Base::new('Kwiki::Boot::V1') called at lib/Kwiki/Boot.pm line
> 5
> 	Kwiki::Boot::boot('Kwiki::Boot') called at
> /home/www/dirvish/cgi-bin/kwiki/index.cgi line 4
> 
> For help, please send mail to the webmaster (root at localhost), giving this
> error message and the time and date of the error.
> 
> ----------

I found that some automated updates had touched Scalar/Util.pm on Nov 8, but
the actual text of the code had not changed from preceding backups.  (And yes,
when something breaks, it is great to have some previous backups to diff and
look for the changes that break things!)

I frobbed on the kwiki code for a while - it is difficult to tell from the error
message what the problem really was, except that kwiki could find the weaken
subroutine ( which was in /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/Scalar/Util.pm , where it 
belonged ).  The technique that actually fixed it was forced reloading of
the Scalar::Util and Spiffy modules :

perl -MCPAN -e shell
cpan> force install Spiffy
cpan> force install Scalar::Util
cpan> quit

I don't really understand why that worked, but it did.  The force
install of Spiffy may have been unnecessary.  Unforced install did not
update/repair/replace the code, just said it was up to date.  Which it
obviously wasn't, if a force install fixes things.

SO, THE QUESTIONS:  Next time this happens, what clues in the error
message will lead me more directly to a fix?  The "force install"
technique seems lame and cargo-cultish.  Is there a better way?   Is
there a collection of dimwit-level cookbook techniques I should be
following when kwiki emits stuff like this?

Or should I just move on, thank my lucky stars, and replace Kwiki with
Python-based MoinMoin when I get some time?  :-/


BTW, part of the reason I post this here is to make a public record of
the fix so Google can find it, and so other sufferers can find both the
fix and your outraged opinions of it ...

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sat Nov 10 14:02:51 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 14:02:51 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
In-Reply-To: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <200711101402.51900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Keith Lofstrom
# on Saturday 10 November 2007 12:48:

>> Undefined subroutine &Scalar::Util::weaken called at (eval 27) line
>> ...
>I found that some automated updates had touched Scalar/Util.pm on Nov
> 8, but the actual text of the code had not changed from preceding
> backups.

What are these "automated updates"?  Did they change the List/Util.pm or 
auto/List/Util/Util.so files?

Scalar::Util uses the compiled XS code (Util.so) from List::Util for 
weaken().

--Eric
-- 
"It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object to realize that you are 
in a hurry."
--Ralph's Observation
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From keithl at kl-ic.com  Sat Nov 10 23:04:08 2007
From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:04:08 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
In-Reply-To: <200711101402.51900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200711101402.51900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>



# from Keith Lofstrom on Saturday 10 November 2007 12:48:
> >> Undefined subroutine &Scalar::Util::weaken called at (eval 27) line
> >> ...
> >I found that some automated updates had touched Scalar/Util.pm on Nov
> > 8, but the actual text of the code had not changed from preceding
> > backups.
 
On Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 02:02:51PM -0800, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> What are these "automated updates"?  Did they change the List/Util.pm or 
> auto/List/Util/Util.so files?
> 
> Scalar::Util uses the compiled XS code (Util.so) from List::Util for 
> weaken().

Keith responds:
Thanks!

/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/List/Util/Util.so
did indeed get mangled,  and the "force install" apparently unmangled it:

In the backups:

... 2007-1108-0503 ... Util/Util.so
  -r-xr-xr-x 66 root root 84841 May 18 16:29

... 2007-1109-0504 ... Util/Util.so
   -rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 36168 Nov  8 04:00      # the broken one 

On the server today, after force update:
   -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 84841 Nov 10 20:15

My server runs nightly yum updates from the CENTOS 5.0 mirror.  The package 
perl-5.8.8-10.el5_0.2.i386.rpm got updated the night in question.  Looking
into that rpm file, I see that it contains the "short" version of Util.so ,
direct from RedHat, apparently.  As this seeps out into the world, it may
break a lot of Kwiki, Spoon, and Spiffy installs .  Now I gotta figure out
who to tell at RedHat so they can fix it, probably by retaining the old
Util.so as an .rpmsave file.

The Util.so file is not listed in the error messages eructated by Kwiki
that I posted earlier.  I'm glad you figured that out, but I am curious
about how you did so.  How would I, a clueless Perl noob attempting to
maintain Kwiki sites, figure out to look at that file without memorizing
thousands of Perl-related factoids?  

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sat Nov 10 23:23:11 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:23:11 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
In-Reply-To: <20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200711101402.51900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <200711102323.11199.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Keith Lofstrom
# on Saturday 10 November 2007 23:04:

>Now I gotta figure out
>who to tell at RedHat so they can fix it

If you find such a "who", ask if they could try to be more visible in 
the Perl community.  This isn't the first thing RedHat has broken.

http://www.filewatcher.com/p/perl-5.8.5-9.src.rpm.11782070/perl-5.8.5-incpush.patch.html

--Eric
-- 
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a
desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day.
--E.B. White
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From chromatic at wgz.org  Sat Nov 10 23:33:30 2007
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:33:30 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
In-Reply-To: <20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200711101402.51900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <200711102333.30622.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Saturday 10 November 2007 23:04:08 Keith Lofstrom wrote:

> The Util.so file is not listed in the error messages eructated by Kwiki
> that I posted earlier. ?I'm glad you figured that out, but I am curious
> about how you did so. ?How would I, a clueless Perl noob attempting to
> maintain Kwiki sites, figure out to look at that file without memorizing
> thousands of Perl-related factoids? ?

Ask someone who *has* memorized thousands of (sometimes painful) Perl-related 
factoids.

Scalar::Util is fantastically useful when it works, but its simultaneous 
XS/non-XS nature makes it problematic to upgrade when someone mucks with 
include paths.

I suspect at least half of my CPAN distros will break when used with the 
non-XS Scalar::Util.

-- c

From marvin at rectangular.com  Sat Nov 10 23:56:03 2007
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:56:03 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
In-Reply-To: <200711102333.30622.chromatic@wgz.org>
References: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200711101402.51900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200711102333.30622.chromatic@wgz.org>
Message-ID: <446B9C45-BB4E-4AA4-BAFC-EAA5D989238A@rectangular.com>


On Nov 10, 2007, at 11:33 PM, chromatic wrote:

> Scalar::Util is fantastically useful when it works, but its  
> simultaneous
> XS/non-XS nature

This seems like it was a monumentally bad design decision.  Why  
wasn't weaken() put in a separate distro?  Am I missing something?

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/



From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 00:38:57 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:38:57 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
In-Reply-To: <20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200711101402.51900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20071111070408.GF30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <200711110038.57697.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Keith Lofstrom
# on Saturday 10 November 2007 23:04:

>The Util.so file is not listed in the error messages eructated by
> Kwiki that I posted earlier. ?I'm glad you figured that out, but I am
> curious about how you did so.

Partly, "I already knew it" as chromatic points out.  The (often 
painful) way to learn something like this is approximately as follows:

The clue was: "Undefined subroutine &Scalar::Util::weaken" and thus 
(assuming that I knew that my 'use ...' statement was kosher (which can 
be assumed from the fact that it "used to work" and then "something 
changed")) my first step in troubleshooting is to run:

  edit $(which_module Scalar::Util)

And see this line:

  require List::Util; # List::Util loads the XS

Finding no 'sub weaken' in this file implies that it comes from said XS 
(which is munged into a .c and then becomes a .so once it is compiled.)

Aside: If you don't have which_module (from my svn), `perldoc -l 
Scalar::Util` will usually do.

If you get really puzzled, you run `cpan_get Scalar::Util`, unpack the 
tarball and grep for weaken.

I really need to put some of these scripts on CPAN, eh?  (That, or maybe 
just post a page of links to the 300+ scripts in my ~/.bin/ dir.)

$ for tool in which_module cpan_get linked_svn; do linked_svn info 
$(which $tool) | grep URL | sed 's/.*: //';done
http://scratchcomputing.com/svn/Module-Subversion-Juggle/trunk/bin/which_module
http://scratchcomputing.com/svn/code_utilities/trunk/bin/cpan_get
http://scratchcomputing.com/svn/Module-Subversion-Juggle/trunk/bin/linked_svn

--Eric
-- 
"I've often gotten the feeling that the only people who have learned
from computer assisted instruction are the authors."
--Ben Schneiderman
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From chromatic at wgz.org  Sun Nov 11 09:36:24 2007
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 09:36:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why did this "force install" fix Kwiki?
In-Reply-To: <446B9C45-BB4E-4AA4-BAFC-EAA5D989238A@rectangular.com>
References: <20071110204851.GB30881@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200711102333.30622.chromatic@wgz.org>
	<446B9C45-BB4E-4AA4-BAFC-EAA5D989238A@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <200711110936.24271.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Saturday 10 November 2007 23:56:03 Marvin Humphrey wrote:

> This seems like it was a monumentally bad design decision. ?Why ?
> wasn't weaken() put in a separate distro? ?Am I missing something?

As far as I can tell, Scalar::Util and List::Util have become the dumping 
ground for things which probably should have been core language features but 
aren't.

F'r example, the ref operator almost never does the right thing.  
Scalar::Util::reftype() almost always does (except for that pesky 
undef-returning bit).

-- c

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 12:06:36 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:06:36 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Declarative Problem Solving -- November meeting this Wed.
Message-ID: <200711121206.36331.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

  Wed. November 14th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.

Topic:  Rapping about Declarative Problem Solving

  A round-table discussion of various techniques (involving DSLs, YAML, 
SQL, Prolog, etc) for solving problems by declaring rules or data.

  Join-in with your questions, comments, and/or case-studies about 
issues like:

  * eliminating large procedural constructs
    (e.g. if, elsif, elsif, else)
  * separation of concerns
  * delegating rules, tests, and data to non-programmers
  * sandboxed/restricted "code"
  * portable procedures

As usual, beer at the LuckyLab after the meeting.

--Eric
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From ben.hengst at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 17:30:07 2007
From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:30:07 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Declarative Problem Solving -- November meeting this
	Wed.
In-Reply-To: <200711121206.36331.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200711121206.36331.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <85ddf48b0711121730w72aa501v46c33ba4ea30622@mail.gmail.com>

Eric, you made mention about me yakking about Decision::ParseTree
again. Any thing specific? I could wing something again but I have an
entire day to try and whip something up if theres something specific
you would like me to talk about/ or a specific example...

On Nov 12, 2007 12:06 PM, Seven till Seven <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
>   Wed. November 14th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.
>
> Topic:  Rapping about Declarative Problem Solving
>
>   A round-table discussion of various techniques (involving DSLs, YAML,
> SQL, Prolog, etc) for solving problems by declaring rules or data.
>
>   Join-in with your questions, comments, and/or case-studies about
> issues like:
>
>   * eliminating large procedural constructs
>     (e.g. if, elsif, elsif, else)
>   * separation of concerns
>   * delegating rules, tests, and data to non-programmers
>   * sandboxed/restricted "code"
>   * portable procedures
>
> As usual, beer at the LuckyLab after the meeting.
>
> --Eric
> --
>
>         http://pdx.pm.org
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>



-- 
benh~

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 18:36:05 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:36:05 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Declarative Problem Solving -- examples
In-Reply-To: <85ddf48b0711121730w72aa501v46c33ba4ea30622@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711121206.36331.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<85ddf48b0711121730w72aa501v46c33ba4ea30622@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711121836.05825.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from benh
# on Monday 12 November 2007 17:30:

>you made mention about me yakking about Decision::ParseTree
>again. Any thing specific?

Something like a demonstrative example and/or before-after sort of 
thing.  I want to make sure that we have some concrete examples and 
case studies to keep the discussion flowing.

Other specific talking-points might include:

  make vs Ant
  META.yml and Makefile.PL/Build.PL
  data-driven testing

Things like that.  I hope everybody brings a possible topic, question, 
puzzle, etc.  We'll take stock at the beginning and then start talking 
all at once or something.  You might want to watch The McLaughlin Group 
to warm-up :-D

--Eric
-- 
"If you only know how to use a hammer, every problem begins to look like
a nail."
--Richard B. Johnson
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Wed Nov 14 07:38:32 2007
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 07:38:32 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] DON'T SUDO CPAN! [was RE: I think the definition of
	failsafe is that things should do the safe thing if they fail
In-Reply-To: <47179E90.4080206@pobox.com>
References: <ec0b5e080710172246x2a2b16sbdafa3e57fa9bc79@mail.gmail.com><200710172303.52160.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<47179E90.4080206@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <012701c826d4$6dc61740$650010ac@mlaptop>

Old thread -- Don't SUDO CPAN!

BTW, thanks for the reference to the discussion at
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37249&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode
=thread&cid=58370

I'm doing some contract work on a system that's been doing 'sudo cpan' for a
while.  When trying to run as a non-root user, I kept getting error messages
like "Cannot create /root/.cpan".  It was a deadlock situation, requiring
that root continue doing all cpan(1) work.

The problem magically went away when I installed a new Bundle::CPAN.

In general, what's a more reliable way to get back to "factory defaults" so
that CPAN::FirstTime will run for a new user?

-- 
Michael R. Wolf
    All mammals learn by playing!
        MichaelRWolf at att.net


> -----Original Message-----
> From: pdx-pm-list-bounces+michaelrwolf=att.net at pm.org [mailto:pdx-pm-list-
> bounces+michaelrwolf=att.net at pm.org] On Behalf Of Michael G Schwern
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:58 AM
> To: Eric Wilhelm
> Cc: pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> Subject: Re: [Pdx-pm] I think the definition of failsafe is that things
> should do the safe thing if they fail
> 
> Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> > # from Daniel Johnson
> > # on Wednesday 17 October 2007 22:46:
> >
> >> Don't write code like in the link!
> >>
> >> http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/34680
> >
> > Yeah.  More importantly, don't run such code as root.
> >
> > Note Abigail's method of using a dedicated, unprivileged user to install
> > code from CPAN.  Then the only files at risk are your perl tree.
> 
> That's troublesome because you then have to have different bin and man
> paths
> and make sure PATH and MANPATH are all set up and oh god the burning.
> 
> You don't have to go that far.  CPAN.pm is perfectly capable of sudo'ing
> the
> install phase.  Just do this:
> http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid7249&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode
> =thread&cidX370
> 
> The first-time configurator recommends that approach.
> http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid7249&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode
> =thread&cidX469
> 
> 
> --
> Ahh email, my old friend.  Do you know that revenge is a dish that is best
> served cold?  And it is very cold on the Internet!
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 09:33:51 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:33:51 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Declarative Problem Solving -- November meeting tonight
Message-ID: <200711140933.51762.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

  Wed. November 14th, 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.

Topic:  Rapping about Declarative Problem Solving

  A round-table discussion of various techniques (involving DSLs, YAML, 
SQL, Prolog, etc) for solving problems by declaring rules or data.

  Join-in with your questions, comments, and/or case-studies about 
issues like:

  * eliminating large procedural constructs
    (e.g. if, elsif, elsif, else)
  * separation of concerns
  * delegating rules, tests, and data to non-programmers
  * sandboxed/restricted "code"
  * portable procedures

As usual, beer at the LuckyLab after the meeting.

--Eric
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 09:32:33 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:32:33 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] DON'T SUDO CPAN!
In-Reply-To: <012701c826d4$6dc61740$650010ac@mlaptop>
References: <ec0b5e080710172246x2a2b16sbdafa3e57fa9bc79@mail.gmail.com>
	<47179E90.4080206@pobox.com>
	<012701c826d4$6dc61740$650010ac@mlaptop>
Message-ID: <200711140932.33291.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Michael R. Wolf
# on Wednesday 14 November 2007 07:38:

> ... "Cannot create /root/.cpan". ...
>The problem magically went away when I installed a new Bundle::CPAN.

I think that has to do with a global CPAN/MyConfig.pm and perhaps 
depends on your @INC order.

IIRC, you have to upgrade to a fairly recent CPAN.pm anyway to get the 
inner sudo support.  Previously, make_install_make_command and 
mbuild_install_build_command were not configurable.

Also see:

  http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.qa/2007/11/msg9565.html

--Eric
-- 
[...proprietary software is better than gpl because...] "There is value
in having somebody you can write checks to, and they fix bugs."
--Mike McNamara (president of a commercial software company)
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From kevin at scaldeferri.com  Fri Nov 16 09:18:37 2007
From: kevin at scaldeferri.com (Kevin Scaldeferri)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:18:37 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pdxfunc] PDXfunc meeting summary for 2007-11-15
References: <9c06f234-3e6a-4cdc-8d9f-c2defc649a48@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <E6681FF8-D499-429B-AE1E-583537E709D9@scaldeferri.com>

Perhaps some perl mongers will also be interested in this new group,  
dedicated to functional programming.  The first meeting was last  
night, the next is probably Dec 10th.  Older messages and subscription  
info at: http://groups.google.com/group/pdxfunc

-kevin

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Igal Koshevoy <igal at pragmaticraft.com>
> Date: November 16, 2007 3:24:05 AM PST
> To: pdxfunc <pdxfunc at googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [pdxfunc] PDXfunc meeting summary for 2007-11-15
> Reply-To: pdxfunc at googlegroups.com
>
>
> PDXfunc - Portland Functional Programming User Group
>
> Our first meeting was a great success. We had 12 people show up and
> had some great discussions. This email summarizes group business
> issues, educational resources for learning more about FP (functional
> programming), and the topics discussed at the meeting.
>
> GROUP BUSINESS:
>
> - NEXT MEETING: We've TENTATIVELY agreed to meet every second Monday,
> so the next meeting is TENTATIVELY scheduled for Monday, December 10
> at 7pm. Igal Koshevoy will contact Don Stewart to see if he's
> available to give a presentation and reserve room at CubeSpace --
> http://www.cubespacepdx.com/directions
>
> - PHILOSOPHY: We want this group to welcome everyone, regardless of
> their level of experience with FP or the language they use. Attendees
> come from radically different backgrounds, so it's important that
> meetings provide content that caters to different skill levels, that
> way everyone can learn something. We use many different terms,
> approaches and tools, so it's vital that everyone be open, tolerant
> and willing to rephrase themselves to help others understand and
> participate.
>
> - CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS: We want you to be involved, so please post
> your ideas to the mailing list. Are you doing something interesting,
> come across a tip, or have a tough question? Consider delivering a
> formal 1 hour talk, or giving a casual 5 minute demo, or just bring up
> an interesting question that can encourage good discussion, or do
> something in between. Although we'll probably have a main presentation
> for the next meeting, it'd be great to have some smaller talks that
> are ready to go if we have time.
>
>
> EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES:
>
> - VIDEO: Simon Peyton Jones "A Taste of Haskell" at OSCON --
> http://blip.tv/file/324976 AND http://blip.tv/file/325646
> - CLASS: Portland State University's "Introduction to functional
> programming" in the spring. Taught by award-winning Professor Mark
> Jones using Haskell -- http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mpj/
> - PAPERS: "Functional Pearls" papers describe elegant and instructive
> functional programming examples -- http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Research_papers/Functional_pearls
> - CONFERENCE: Commercial Users of Functional Programming held a
> conference in Portland recently and their site provides some
> interesting abstracts and industry links -- http://cufp.galois.com/
>
>
> MEETING DISCUSSION TOPICS:
>
> - INTRODUCTIONS: The diversity of the group was incredible. We had a
> professor that taught and created FPLs (functional programming
> languages), PhD students doing sophisticated research with FPLs, full-
> time commercial FP developers working with Haskell at companies like
> Galois, a developer doing mobile phone synchronization with Erlang,
> some hobbyists exploring FP for fun, and some imperative/OOP
> developers whose experience was limited to using the FP features of
> Ruby, Python and Perl.
>
> - WHAT IS FP?: We had a big, non-conclusive discussion about how to
> define functional programming. Is it the presence of good things, like
> first class functions? Is it the absence of bad things, like state? Is
> it the purity? Is it the natural relationship to math? Different folks
> that used different languages had different preferences about what was
> important. The group thought it might be good to spend a few hours
> together reviewing and trying to improve the Wikipedia article on the
> topic.
>
> - FP PROPAGANDA: Professor Tim Sheard (Portland State University),
> Iavor Diatchki (Galios R&D Engineering) and others spoke
> enthusiastically about the benefits of functional programming,
> including....
>    - ELEGANCE: Provides clean solutions to tricky problems.
>    - ABSTRACTION: Makes it possible to create reusable design pattern-
> like features. For instance, monads as an abstract data type offer
> unique benefits difficult to obtain with less-capable languages.
>    - INFERRED TYPING: Catches many errors at compile time, simplifies
> development and improves code quality. This typing approach is asier
> to work with than strictly typed languages (e.g., Java) and provides
> assurance that the code is free certain bugs that are difficult to
> eliminate in dynamic languages (e.g., Ruby) even with excellent tests
> and code coverage.
>
> - HARDWARE OPTIMIZATION: FP has interesting ties to hardware design,
> and many ideas behind purpose-specific FP hardware created in the past
> are now present in the micro-architectures of modern commodity
> processors. Applying FP to hardware design can also provide intriguing
> benefits, such as quickly-producing programs compiled to expensive,
> small run FPGAs -- and later recompiling to target inexpensive high
> volume manufactured ASICs.
>
> - CHALLENGES TO FP's UPTAKE: The concepts and benefits can be hard to
> describe, especially to those without a theoretical background. FP
> discussions often use academic, specialized vocabulary to explain
> concepts that are well understood by mainstream programmers under more
> general terms. Failure to understand or express the benefits of FP has
> limited uptake of FP by mainstream businesses, and kept it mostly to
> academia and a few niche industries, such as financial modeling and
> telephony. However, interest has been growing recently.
>
> - CHALLENGES OF DESIGNING FPs: Many small languages, few programmers
> and radically different needs. Languages have evolved and even
> splintered in attempt to cater to these niches. Different FP languages
> have very different goals -- e.g., Haskell GHC's "everything but the
> kitchen sink" vs. Haskell Hugs' minimalistic footprint vs. OCaml's
> high performance requirements. The communities behind FP languages are
> also very different -- Haskell seems to welcome anybody vs. ML is lead
> by a small set of experts vs. other languages communities that are
> tied to certain businesses, nationalities, locations, etc).
>
> Thank you for reading these notes, I look forward to seeing you at the
> next meeting.
>
> PS: Tom stayed after the meeting to help me craft this summary,
> thanks!
> PPS: All errors in this posting are my fault, please post corrections.
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
> Groups "pdxfunc" group.
> To post to this group, send email to pdxfunc at googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pdxfunc-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pdxfunc?hl=en
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>


From schwern at pobox.com  Fri Nov 16 15:10:44 2007
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:10:44 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [Fwd: RC1 coming tomorrow]
Message-ID: <473E2374.10409@pobox.com>

At the last meeting we were talking about when 5.10 is coming out.  Rafael
just announced his intention to ship the first 5.10 release candidate.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RC1 coming tomorrow
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:46:48 +0100
From: Rafael Garcia-Suarez <rgarciasuarez at gmail.com>
To: P5P (E-mail) <perl5-porters at perl.org>

Subject says it all, I intend to release an RC1 tomorrow. perl -V
should now report "RC1" since change #32334.


-- 
Just call me 'Moron Sugar'.
	http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05182002.shtml

From kevin at scaldeferri.com  Fri Nov 16 16:11:18 2007
From: kevin at scaldeferri.com (Kevin Scaldeferri)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:11:18 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Re: December Mixer?
In-Reply-To: <200711050835.05860.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200711050835.05860.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <B89E101D-720D-4DFB-A598-FFF459EA4962@scaldeferri.com>

Eric,

Do you know if they decide which day this is going to be?  It's not on  
the Cubespace calendar yet.


-kevin


On Nov 5, 2007, at 8:35 AM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The mixer sounds fun, though we already have a speaker for December (I
> think.)  Of course, we can still have our regular meeting too.
>
> What does everybody think about the Tuesday time-slot?  Sponsors?
>
> --Eric
>
> ----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------
>
> Subject: Re: December Mixer?
> Date: Monday 05 November 2007 08:16
> From: "Sam Keen" <sam.sjk at gmail.com>
> To: "Eric Wilhelm" <ewilhelm at cpan.org>, "Audrey Eschright"
> <spinnerin at gmail.com>, "princess gabrielle" <gorthx at gmail.com>, "Jeff
> Schwaber" <freyley at gmail.com>, selenamarie at gmail.com
>
> oops,  those proposed dates are
> Dec-4 & Dec-11  (I was looking at Nov)
>
> On 11/5/07, Sam Keen <sam.sjk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello fellow coders,
>> In the PHP group we always just have a beer and pizza meeting in
>> December (sort of take the month off).  This year I thought we might
>> expand our horizons and mix with the other scripting / db groups.  I
>> was envisioning something very casual, mostly networking but we could
>> certainly make time for short presentations if groups wanted to show
>> something.
>>
>> Not sure what plans you had for your groups in December, but if one
>> large meetup with beer/soda/pizza sound good let me know and I can
>> start looking for sponsors, and venue.  I picked just Python, Perl,
>> PHP, PostgreSQL, Ruby for this email just to see if their was
>> interest, we can expand to other groups if it looks like we want to
>> do this.  Also, feel free to forward this to a different members in
>> your groups if you need feedback.
>>
>> Some possible dates would be Dec 6th (take over Ruby meeting at
>> Cubespace), or December 13th (take over PHP and Python meetings at
>> cubespace).
>>
>> let me know what you think,
>>
>> cheers,
>> sam keen
>> pdxphp.org
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list


From sdeckelmann at chrisking.com  Fri Nov 16 16:20:29 2007
From: sdeckelmann at chrisking.com (Selena Deckelmann)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:20:29 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Re: December Mixer?
In-Reply-To: <B89E101D-720D-4DFB-A598-FFF459EA4962@scaldeferri.com>
References: <200711050835.05860.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<B89E101D-720D-4DFB-A598-FFF459EA4962@scaldeferri.com>
Message-ID: <ED127A86-08CA-4C23-95CA-9B3E456D7F49@chrisking.com>

On Nov 16, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote:

> Eric,
>
> Do you know if they decide which day this is going to be?  It's not on
> the Cubespace calendar yet.

December 11th. The event page is here:

http://pdxgroups.pbwiki.org/2007%20December%20Coders%20Social

-selena


-- 
Selena Deckelmann
Information Systems Manager
Chris King Precision Components
Made in Portland, Oregon
www.chrisking.com / 503.972.4050 x230




From gabrielle.roth at xo.com  Tue Nov 20 08:34:47 2007
From: gabrielle.roth at xo.com (Roth, Gabrielle)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:34:47 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] FW: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, November 16
Message-ID: <E2383CA82A645A45B72D523F5A29311A032BCE89@UTSANDMAIL02.mail.inthosts.net>

This month's boooooooks...

If you've requested a review copy of a book, don't forget to write the
review. :ahem:

> For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>
> 
> 
> ***Absolute FreeBSD, Second Edition (No Starch)
> ISBN 10: 1593271514
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271510/>
> 
> 
> ***Design Accessible Web Sites (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
> ISBN 10: 1934356026
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356029/>
> 
> 
> ***Excel 2007 Pocket Guide, Second Edition
> ISBN 10: 0596514522
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514525/>
> 
> 
> ***Get Up and Running with Dojo
> ISBN 10: 059651705X
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596517052/>
> 
> 
> ***GIS for Web Developers (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
> ISBN 10: 0974514098
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/974514098/>
> 
> 
> ***Hacking: The Art of Exploitation, Second Edition (No Starch)
> ISBN 10: 1593271441
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593271441/>
> 
> 
> ***Head First C#
> ISBN 10: 0596514824
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514822/>
> 
> 
> ***Knoppix Hacks, Second Edition
> ISBN 10: 059651493X
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514938/>
> 
> 
> ***Linux Networking Cookbook
> ISBN 10: 0596102488
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596102487/>
> 
> 
> ***Managing Your Photographic Workflow with Photoshop 
> Lightroom (Rocky Nook)
> ISBN 10: 1933952202
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952208/>
> 
> 
> ***The Nikon D80 Dbook (Rocky Nook)
> ISBN 10: 1933952156
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952154/>
> 
> 
> ***Oracle Essentials, Fourth Edition
> ISBN 10: 0596514549
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514549/>
> 
> 
> ***Photoshop CS3 Photo Effects Cookbook
> ISBN 10: 0596515049
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515041/>
> 
> 
> ***The PHP Anthology, Second Edition (SitePoint)
> ISBN 10: 0975841998
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0975841998/>
> 
> 
> ***QuickBooks 2008: The Missing Manual
> ISBN 10: 0596515146
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515140/>
> 
> 
> ***Quicken 2008: The Missing Manual
> ISBN 10: 0596515154
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515157/>
> 
> 
> ***Using Moodle, Second Edition
> ISBN 10: 059652918X
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596529185/>
> 
> 
> ***Windows PowerShell Cookbook
> ISBN 10: 0596528493
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596528492/>

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 08:50:48 2007
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:50:48 -0200
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Postgres and DBI issue
Message-ID: <659b9ea30711210850o762575d7t5f6703a33d284bf9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

I'm running a query which fails inside of DBI, but works without issue
from the psql client.  Does anyone have suggestions?  This is not a
complicated query, and I am unclear as to why the perl version
requires a cast of some sort.

Here are the queries, followed by the error ("DBD::Pg::db
selectall_arrayref failed: ERROR:  operator is not unique: time
without time zone + time with out time zone HINT:  Could not choose a
best candidate operator. You may need to add explicit type casts.")

my $single_query = <<"END";
select * from schedule where
( recurring is null or recurring = '' )
and
( start_date + start_time ) < now()
and
( end_date + end_time ) > now ();
END

my $recurring_query = <<"END";
select * from schedule where
to_char( now(), 'Dy' ) = recurring
and
( now() + start_time ) < now()
and
( now() + end_time ) > now ();
END

foreach my $query ( $recurring_query, $single_query ) {
    &_log( "Query: $query" ) if $verbose;
    my $results = $dbh->selectall_arrayref( $query );
    foreach my $item ( @{$results} ) {

ERROR:

root at piab:~/podcast-core/rails/ssl/db#
/opt/wiab/custom/bin/automate_encoders --verbose
Verbose is on
LOG: Query: select * from schedule where
to_char( now(), 'Dy' ) = recurring
and
( now() + start_time ) < now()
and
( now() + end_time ) > now ();
LOG: Query: select * from schedule where
( recurring is null or recurring = '' )
and
( start_date + start_time ) < now()
and
( end_date + end_time ) > now ();
DBD::Pg::db selectall_arrayref failed: ERROR:  operator is not unique:
time without time zone + time with
out time zone
HINT:  Could not choose a best candidate operator. You may need to add
explicit type casts.

I've tried with both ->prepare() and ->selectall_arrayref()

Within the Psql client it returns no entries, but it does not die with an error.

wiab_dev=# select * from schedule where to_char( now(), 'Dy' ) =
recurring and ( now() + start_time ) < now() and ( now() + end_time )
> now();
 uniqid | name | description | start_time | status | archive |
automate | recurring | category | remote_source | comment |
remote_archive_protocol | remote_archive_path |
remote_archive_username | remote_archive_password |
remote_archive_host | end_time | end_date | start_date
--------+------+-------------+------------+--------+---------+----------+-----------+----------+---------------+---------+-------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+---------------------+----------+----------+------------
(0 rows)

wiab_dev=# select * from schedule where ( recurring is null or
recurring = '' ) and ( start_date + start_time ) < now() and (
end_date + end_time ) > now ();
 uniqid | name | description | start_time | status | archive |
automate | recurring | category | remote_source | comment |
remote_archive_protocol | remote_archive_path |
remote_archive_username | remote_archive_password |
remote_archive_host | end_time | end_date | start_date
--------+------+-------------+------------+--------+---------+----------+-----------+----------+---------------+---------+-------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+---------------------+----------+----------+------------
(0 rows)

wiab_dev=# \d schedule;
                                           Table "public.schedule"
         Column          |          Type          |
     Modifiers
-------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------
 uniqid                  | integer                | not null default
nextval('schedule_uniqid_seq'::regclass)
 name                    | character varying(255) |
 description             | character varying(255) |
 start_time              | time without time zone |
 status                  | character varying(255) |
 archive                 | character varying(255) |
 automate                | character varying(255) |
 recurring               | character varying(255) |
 category                | character varying(255) |
 remote_source           | text                   |
 comment                 | character varying(255) |
 remote_archive_protocol | character varying(255) |
 remote_archive_path     | character varying(255) |
 remote_archive_username | character varying(255) |
 remote_archive_password | character varying(255) |
 remote_archive_host     | character varying(255) |
 end_time                | time without time zone |
 end_date                | date                   |
 start_date              | date                   |
Indexes:
    "schedule_pkey" PRIMARY KEY, btree (uniqid)


Thanks,
Chris

From selenamarie at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 11:13:31 2007
From: selenamarie at gmail.com (Selena Deckelmann)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:13:31 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Postgres and DBI issue
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30711210850o762575d7t5f6703a33d284bf9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <659b9ea30711210850o762575d7t5f6703a33d284bf9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2b5e566d0711211113gb64c701n677962b1873030c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2007 8:50 AM, Chris Dawson <xrdawson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm running a query which fails inside of DBI, but works without issue
> from the psql client.  Does anyone have suggestions?  This is not a
> complicated query, and I am unclear as to why the perl version
> requires a cast of some sort.

I'm using DBD::Pg 1.49, and postgresql version 8.2.4 for my testing.

I am having a hard time reproducing your error. The error doesn't seem
to match either of the queries that you presented. Do you have any
other queries running after your foreach statement?

That error "time without timezone + time without timezone" comes about
because two independent "time" values don't mean anything when added
together unless one or both are cast to "interval" -- a simple example
is: (11pm + 1am).  The system can't figure out what you mean unless
one of those time values is cast to an interval of time (as in, 1am
really means "1 hour").

And be careful with intervals without a time as an anchor.  Intervals
are not very smart - they don't know anything about when they started,
so you can get into trouble around the end of the month, leap years,
etc.

The date/time functions and the operators with data types they are
defined for are here:
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.2/static/functions-datetime.html

Also, unrelated to your error, I  wonder if you used CURRENT_DATE
instead of now() in your addition operators if that would fix a bug in
$recurring_query? I'm not sure about the specific context, but using
now() there doesn't seem quite right because it would include the
current time.  psql is doing an implicit cast from TIME to INTERVAL --
which is probably not what you want.

See below:

mytest=# select now() + start_time, start_time from schedule;
           ?column?            | start_time
-------------------------------+------------
 2007-11-22 08:10:33.746351-08 | 21:00:00
 2007-11-22 08:10:33.746351-08 | 21:00:00
 2007-11-21 20:10:33.746351-08 | 09:00:00
 2007-11-21 20:10:33.746351-08 | 09:00:00
 2007-11-21 20:10:33.746351-08 | 09:00:00
 2007-11-21 20:10:33.746351-08 | 09:00:00
 2007-11-21 20:10:33.746351-08 | 09:00:00
 2007-11-21 20:10:33.746351-08 | 09:00:00
 2007-11-21 20:10:33.746351-08 | 09:00:00


-selena

-- 
Selena Deckelmann
PDXPUG - Portland PostgreSQL Users Group
http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx
http://www.chesnok.com/daily