From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 1 09:40:13 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:40:13 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Tom Phoenix # on Friday 27 May 2005 05:18 pm: >Would lightning talks be a possibility? I could probably do one on Getopt::Modern by that date if anyone is interested. Also CAD::Drawing if anyone is interested in that. --Eric -- "If you dig it, it's yours." -- An old village poet (via Al Pacino) --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From krisb at ring.org Wed Jun 1 15:10:47 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: CAD::Drawing sounds interesting. -Kris On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # The following was supposedly scribed by > # Tom Phoenix > # on Friday 27 May 2005 05:18 pm: > > >Would lightning talks be a possibility? > > I could probably do one on Getopt::Modern by that date if anyone is > interested. > > Also CAD::Drawing if anyone is interested in that. > > --Eric > -- > "If you dig it, it's yours." > -- An old village poet (via Al Pacino) > --------------------------------------------- > http://scratchcomputing.com > --------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > > > !DSPAM:429de4d6168151364174755! > > From schwern at pobox.com Thu Jun 2 01:46:11 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:46:11 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perlcast Message-ID: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org> I got this email asking me to do a "Perlcast" about one of my modules on the Phalanx list. MakeMaker, Test::More, Class::WhiteHole and/or Class::Data::Inheritable. This is the first I've heard of Perlcast (I'm a little fuzzy on the whole "podcast" thing, too) and I'm not entirely sure what they want me to say about the modules... but it got me thinking. We're short a speaker and topic. Would you folks be interested in hearing about any of the above and recording it? ----- Forwarded message from Perl Podcast ----- From: Perl Podcast Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:22:30 -0500 To: mschwern at cpan.org Subject: Audio about Class-Data-Inheritable, Class-WhiteHole, ExtUtils-MakeMaker, and Test-Simple for Perlcast Reply-To: Perl Podcast Hi Michael, Sorry to bother you, but Class-Data-Inheritable, Class-WhiteHole, ExtUtils-MakeMaker, and Test-Simple have shown up on a list of modules that I am covering in Perlcast. Perlcast (http://perlcast.com) is a podcast that focuses on the Perl programming language. Recently, a segment was added where modules found in the Phalanx 100 are being discussed. So far, I've been trying to do the talks on the modules, but definitely don't do them justice. This is where I hope that you will help me and at the same time promote your modules by providing an audio clip of you talking about them. If you will provide the audio, I will include that audio in the podcast in place of my talk :) I try to go over one module per show... just thought that I would throw that in since you have more then one module on the list. I can cut a single track into multiple segments or you can send multiple tracks or you can jumble them all up if you really want to. If you would like to record your own segment please do one of the following: 1) Reply to this email with an attached audio clip or link to a clip 2) Skype 'perlcast' and leave a message 3) Call US 1.501.358.4143 and leave a message 4) Email me back so that I can call you and record the conversation 5) Use some other way of sending audio to me that I didn't mention Thank you for taking the time to consider doing this, Josh McAdams ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal. -- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett From david at kineticode.com Thu Jun 2 10:39:01 2005 From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:39:01 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perlcast In-Reply-To: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org> References: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: On Jun 2, 2005, at 01:46 , Michael G Schwern wrote: > I got this email asking me to do a "Perlcast" about one of my modules > on the Phalanx list. MakeMaker, Test::More, Class::WhiteHole and/or > Class::Data::Inheritable. This is the first I've heard of Perlcast > (I'm a > little fuzzy on the whole "podcast" thing, too) and I'm not > entirely sure > what they want me to say about the modules... but it got me > thinking. We're > short a speaker and topic. Would you folks be interested in > hearing about > any of the above and recording it? He must be making the rounds of PDXers. He interviewed Allison last week, and I'll be doing an interview about Bricolage later today. I think it was announced on use Per a bit ago...yes, here: http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/22/2241233 Cheers, David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050602/11cfdf75/smime.bin From andy at petdance.com Thu Jun 2 11:38:40 2005 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:38:40 -0500 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perlcast In-Reply-To: References: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <20050602183840.GA18543@petdance.com> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 10:39:01AM -0700, David Wheeler (david at kineticode.com) wrote: > He must be making the rounds of PDXers. He interviewed Allison last > week, and I'll be doing an interview about Bricolage later today. And he hit me up to talk about testing stuff, too. -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Thu Jun 2 11:45:07 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com> <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> I've heard several suggestions, but it doesn't seem that anyone is really biting at the bit for any of these offers. Here they are, for a recap: - Jeff Zucker teaching juggling - Tom Phoenix talking about MediaWiki - Lightning talks - a general wiki talk Any others? Any more suggestions? Josh From tex at off.org Thu Jun 2 11:56:09 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:56:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com> <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <20050602185609.GA1934@gblx.net> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 11:45:07AM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote: > I've heard several suggestions, but it doesn't seem that anyone is really > biting at the bit for any of these offers. Here they are, for a recap: > > - Jeff Zucker teaching juggling > - Tom Phoenix talking about MediaWiki > - Lightning talks > - a general wiki talk > > Any others? Any more suggestions? > I was thinking about doing an introductory presentation on boosting performance w/ Inline C. Seems like I was having this odd dream about Perl last night. Maybe if I can flush out what the dream was about I'll give a presentation on that. *shrug* well, 5 minutes wasted, how bad could it be... Austin From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 12:24:07 2005 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? (Your chance for fame and glory!) In-Reply-To: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <20050602192407.79885.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Since I'll have an out-of-town guest, I'm afraid I won't be able to make this meeting. Otherwise, I'd talk about the Perl 6 Cookbook. However, it's straightforward and anyone with interest can learn enough to do a lightning talk. I'd love to see someone jump on this. Basically, Tim Bunce said we should port the Cookbook to Perl 6 (for something called PLEAC, which I won't go into). You can read Autrijus' comments about this at http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/24039 I started porting the examples (http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/24092), but work caught up with me and I had to stop. A few others pitched in, but momentum was lost. However, you can browse what little there is at http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/cookbook/ (strings, arrays, and hashes mostly). Pugs is far enough along that this can easily be fleshed out. If anyone sends Autrijus a new recipe, he'll probably send you a committer bit in return, thus letting you add recipes to your heart's content. This could be one of the most important Perl 6 projects out there. How many of you reach for the Cookbook when you're trying to figure out how to do something new? Many people would be indebted to you for your work on this :) Cheers, Ovid -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list. Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 2 12:54:36 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:54:36 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Josh Heumann # on Thursday 02 June 2005 11:45 am: >it doesn't seem that anyone is really >biting at the bit for any of these offers. I'm game for a couple of Lightning talks (CAD::Drawing and/or Getopt::Modern). I could also talk about the live-install scheme that I've been working on for integrating Perl development with version control. Michael: How long would the podcast(s) be? Austin: How long would the Inline::C talk be? If the answer is "short", I could also follow the latter with a discussion about Inline::Python, Inline::CPP, or an advanced Inline::C (data structures and other fun stuff) if there's any interest. --Eric -- "...the bourgeoisie were hated from both ends: by the proles, because they had all the money, and by the intelligentsia, because of their tendency to spend it on lawn ornaments." -- Neal Stephenson --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From tex at off.org Thu Jun 2 12:56:10 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:56:10 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20050602195610.GD1934@gblx.net> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:54:36PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # The following was supposedly scribed by > # Josh Heumann > # on Thursday 02 June 2005 11:45 am: > > >it doesn't seem that anyone is really > >biting at the bit for any of these offers. > > I'm game for a couple of Lightning talks (CAD::Drawing and/or > Getopt::Modern). I could also talk about the live-install scheme that > I've been working on for integrating Perl development with version > control. > > Michael: How long would the podcast(s) be? > > Austin: How long would the Inline::C talk be? > > If the answer is "short", I could also follow the latter with a > discussion about Inline::Python, Inline::CPP, or an advanced Inline::C > (data structures and other fun stuff) if there's any interest. > The answer is "short" -- it's a lightning talk after all. :-) Austin From schwern at pobox.com Thu Jun 2 14:04:59 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:04:59 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:54:36PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Michael: How long would the podcast(s) be? Absolutely no idea. It largely depends on the module. Class::Whitehole can be explained in about 2 minutes. MakeMaker I can rant about for an hour. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the implementation and then relied upon it. -- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon> From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 14:29:59 2005 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <20050602212959.62744.qmail@web60816.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael G Schwern wrote: > MakeMaker I can rant about for an hour. Yeah, I know. I know. :) Cheers, Ovid -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list. Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 2 16:18:14 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:18:14 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <200506021618.14505.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Michael G Schwern # on Thursday 02 June 2005 02:04 pm: >It largely depends on the module. ?Class::Whitehole >can be explained in about 2 minutes. Is it safe to say that we so-far have 3 people with 1-3 lightning talks each then? How many lightning talks fill a meeting? (or one meeting less juggling time.) --Eric -- "It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious." -- Murphy's Second Corollary --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From david at kineticode.com Thu Jun 2 16:18:01 2005 From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:18:01 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? In-Reply-To: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org> References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <438CD321-D0C8-48FB-8748-B8DDE9B30D7F@kineticode.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 14:04 , Michael G Schwern wrote: > Absolutely no idea. It largely depends on the module. > Class::Whitehole > can be explained in about 2 minutes. MakeMaker I can rant about > for an > hour. I just did my interview. It was about 25 mins, but will likely be cut down to under 20. Cheers, David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050602/860f1d74/smime.bin From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Jun 3 08:24:35 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] [Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, June 2] Message-ID: <43144.130.94.161.230.1117812275.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Reminder: These books are available to us for reviewing... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, June 2 From: Marsee Henon Date: Thu, June 2, 2005 6:17 pm ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders June 2, 2005 ================================================================ -Put Up an O'Reilly OSCON Banner, Get a Free Book -Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference Banner, Get a Free Book -Promotional Material Available -Looking for Web Site or Newsletter Content? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review books are available Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request. 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In a hardcore gamer's world, the flashy and elaborate E3 exhibits are like Christmas morning--only in May. Stephen Cawood offers this report on E3 2005. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/05/23/E3expo.html ***Mapping the 802.11 Protocol A trip to London and a bit of unique inspiration gave Matthew Gast the ideas that would lead to the first draft of a visual map describing the relationship between the various components of the 802.11 standard and related security standards. Matthew details the road he took to the final version of his 802.11 protocol map. Matthew is the author of "802.11: The Definitive Guide, 2nd Edition." http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2005/05/20/80211map.html ***Embedded-system Programmers Must Learn the Fundamentals No Starch's Randy Hyde's article in the new issue of "EDN Magazine." 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Matthew Eernisse demonstrates how to send and receive structured data with XMLHttpRequest and shows off some tricks to make debugging and error handling easier. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/05/18/swingxactions.html ***Rexx: Power Through Simplicity The P-languages get most of the press these days, but they're not the only dynamic languages in the world. Arguably, Rexx is the grandfather of them all. It's received little attention in the open source world, despite several good open source implementations. Howard Fosdick shows off some of the features of the language with practical examples. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/05/26/rexx.html ***Learning Lab: Linux/Unix SysAdmin Certificate Special Learn system administration skills online and receive certification from the University of Illinois Office of Continuing Education. 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If you're contemplating a visit to the gadget promise land, you'll enjoy Todd Ogasawara's report on everything from cell phone coverage to buying Mac accessories. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/27/japan.html ***20 Cool Tiger Features You Might Not Have Heard About Even though Tiger has been out for a while now, many of its major features have nuances that haven't received much press--and there are a zillion minor tweaks to discuss. Scott Knaster takes you on a tour of clever, and sometimes even obscure Tiger goodies. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/13/tiger_tips.html --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Refactoring Support for Visual Basic 2005 Microsoft recently announced that they have teamed up with Developer Express Inc. to release Refactor! for Visual Basic 2005 Beta 2, a free plugin for Visual Studio that enables Visual Basic developers to simplify and restructure source code inside of Visual Studio 2005. 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In this first of three articles, Wei-Meng Lee discusses how to use Web Parts for user customization in your ASP.NET 2.0 web sites. http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/05/23/webparts_1.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Constructing Services with J2EE Web services are a popular means of deploying service-oriented applications, and the standards in J2EE 1.4 make it easier to develop services that are portable and interoperable. Debu Panda shows you how, and takes a look at how things will get easier in J2EE 5.0. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/05/25/j2ee-services.html ***Wire Hibernate Transactions in Spring The proper handling of transactions across multiple data stores, supporting multiple application flows, is the kind of heavy lifting J2EE servers were built for. But what if you're using the lighter-weight Spring framework? 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Driven by ex-Microsoft and Real Networks employees, Weed is totally legal, and even supports surround sound. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/05/25/weed.html ***Consumer Camera Time-Lapse Movies Pocket digicams are great for still photos, and some of them even record quality video. But you can push the envelope even further with these devices. Here's how two photo novices created their first time-lapse production. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/05/18/timelapse.html --------------------- Web --------------------- ***DHTML Utopia: Modern Web Design What do Flickr, Google Suggest, Google Maps, and GMail have in common? They all employ some of the latest methods in modern, unobtrusive DHTML. http://www.sitepoint.com/article/dhtml-utopia-modern-web-design ***Search Engines Know More Than You Think Learn how Google's personalized web search and Yahoo's Mindset work and how they take searching to a whole new level. http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=268282 --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***MAKE: Audio The MAKE Team thought it would be fun to talk with pal Richard Giles in Australia. They chatted about MAKE Volume 02, E3, Astromechs, VoIP for the Nintendo DS, NASA's O2 challenge, the XBOX 360, Broadcast Flag part 2, and more. Next up, they interview Jordan Kanarek and Jim Garretson from roadcasting.org. What's roadcasting? Interactive, collaborative, mobile radio stations for cars. It could be a glimpse of what's to come for our daily commutes! http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/make_podcast/ ***MAKE Flickr Join the MAKE Flickr photo pool today. You never know what you'll see or what we'll be giving away next! Where else can you see a potato cannon in action? http://www.flickr.com/groups/make/pool/ ***MAKE del.icio.us On the MAKE bookmark page, there are over 1,500 links to hacks, mods, DIY projects, and all-around tinkering goodness. Be a MAKE voyeur and read what we're reading. http://del.icio.us/makemagazine This week's faves include: Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/ Abusing Amazon Images http://aaugh.com/imageabuse.html WSJ on Gaming http://www.oreilly.com/go/wsj_on_gaming How to Stock Your Bar for a Party http://www.degraeve.com/howto/stock-your-bar.php ***The MAKE blog is available at: http://www.makezine.com/blog/ ================================================ >From Your Peers =============================================== ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups around the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time-- Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Mon Jun 6 18:24:50 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday Message-ID: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Wednesday, June 8th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave Shazam! Lightning Talks! Here's the list of people I have so far, compiled from the thread last week. There was some talk of juggling, but I'll let Jeff Zucker or Tom Phoenix add themselves (I, for one, would love to see a lightning talk on juggling). * EricWilhelm, CAD::Drawing * EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern * AustinShulz, Inline::C * Schwern, Class::Whitehole * Schwern, MakeMaker If you're not sure of what a lightning talk is, see the kwiki: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk Josh From dpool at hevanet.com Tue Jun 7 08:05:07 2005 From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 08:05:07 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Local Governements use of OSS Message-ID: <1118156708.8723.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Kudos to Metro for their use of Perl along with Asterisk, MapServer and a Beowulf Linux Cluster: http://www.news4neighbors.net/article.pl?sid=05/06/06/193227 d From krisb at ring.org Tue Jun 7 10:22:17 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday In-Reply-To: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Josh Heumann wrote: > Shazam! Lightning Talks! > * Schwern, MakeMaker Sounds like a Thunder and Lightning Talk. -Kris From marvin at rectangular.com Tue Jun 7 17:18:01 2005 From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:18:01 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released Message-ID: Greets, Kinosearch... has... been... released... ... for months! http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/ I barely told anybody about it before now, though. An unexpected turn of events at Online Highways in early February forced me to focus on other tasks, and while I've been able to do development on Kinosearch from time to time, launching a project like this requires a level of support I wouldn't have been able to provide. Things are different now. I quit my job. Version 0.02 has just been uploaded to CPAN. For the next month or so, Kinosearch is going to be my top priority. The new release implements many new features, including the number one request, incremental indexing. If you'd like to try it out, cut and paste from the sample apps here: http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/docs/devel/Search/Kinosearch/ Tutorial.html See y'all tomorrow, Marvin Humphrey Rectangular Research http://www.rectangular.com/ From david at kineticode.com Tue Jun 7 18:49:05 2005 From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:49:05 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46A20937-AE92-4CED-A731-9C4B5DBBE6CC@kineticode.com> On Jun 7, 2005, at 17:18 , Marvin Humphrey wrote: > Kinosearch... has... been... released... > > ... for months! > > http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/ Hey, congrats anyway. I look forward to seeing the improvements over the next month! Cheers, David From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Wed Jun 8 12:47:51 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting tonight Message-ID: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Wednesday, June 8th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave Shazam! Lightning Talks! Here's the list of people I have so far, compiled from the thread last week. There was some talk of juggling, but I'll let Jeff Zucker or Tom Phoenix add themselves (I, for one, would love to see a lightning talk on juggling). You can add your lightning talk to the kwiki: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki * EricWilhelm, CAD::Drawing * EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern * AustinShulz, Inline::C * Schwern, Class::Whitehole * Schwern, MakeMaker If you're not sure of what a lightning talk is, see the kwiki: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk Josh From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Wed Jun 8 14:07:31 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57712.130.94.161.230.1118264851.squirrel@joshheumann.com> This sounds great, and congratluations for getting it out. I know that you've introduced it to us already, but do you want to do a lightning talk on Kinsearch tonight as a refersher? Josh > Greets, > > Kinosearch... has... been... released... > > ... for months! > > http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/ > > I barely told anybody about it before now, though. An unexpected turn > of events at Online Highways in early February forced me to focus on > other tasks, and while I've been able to do development on Kinosearch > from time to time, launching a project like this requires a level of > support I wouldn't have been able to provide. > > Things are different now. I quit my job. > > Version 0.02 has just been uploaded to CPAN. > > For the next month or so, Kinosearch is going to be my top priority. > The new release implements many new features, including the number one > request, incremental indexing. > > If you'd like to try it out, cut and paste from the sample apps here: > > http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/docs/devel/Search/Kinosearch/ > Tutorial.html > > See y'all tomorrow, > > Marvin Humphrey > Rectangular Research > http://www.rectangular.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From schwern at pobox.com Wed Jun 8 15:22:55 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:22:55 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday In-Reply-To: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 06:24:50PM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote: > * Schwern, MakeMaker > http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk What can I say in 5 minutes about MakeMaker that you all don't already know? -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Just call me 'Moron Sugar'. http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05182002.shtml From tex at off.org Wed Jun 8 15:25:26 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:25:26 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday In-Reply-To: <20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org> References: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <20050608222526.GQ1934@gblx.net> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:22:55PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote: > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 06:24:50PM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote: > > * Schwern, MakeMaker > > http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk > > What can I say in 5 minutes about MakeMaker that you all don't already know? > You could tell us what'a going on with --prefix, that's probably good for a minute. :-) Austin From schwern at pobox.com Wed Jun 8 15:35:21 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:35:21 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday In-Reply-To: <20050608222526.GQ1934@gblx.net> References: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org> <20050608222526.GQ1934@gblx.net> Message-ID: <20050608223521.GA5382@windhund.schwern.org> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:25:26PM -0700, Austin Schutz wrote: > On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:22:55PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 06:24:50PM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote: > > > * Schwern, MakeMaker > > > http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk > > > > What can I say in 5 minutes about MakeMaker that you all don't already know? > > You could tell us what'a going on with --prefix, that's probably > good for a minute. :-) A mostly-working patch just went into CVS. I'm waiting for a committer bit to finish it off. I guess I could talk about why PREFIX never really worked and never really will and the modern alternatives. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern ROCKS FALL! EVERYONE DIES! http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05032002.shtml From marvin at rectangular.com Wed Jun 8 16:10:42 2005 From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:10:42 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released In-Reply-To: <57712.130.94.161.230.1118264851.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <57712.130.94.161.230.1118264851.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <5535EEA9-6D66-4506-877D-5D51B17FDB5B@rectangular.com> On Jun 8, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Josh Heumann wrote: > This sounds great, and congratluations for getting it out. Thanks! > I know that > you've introduced it to us already, but do you want to do a > lightning talk > on Kinsearch tonight as a refersher? With pleasure. This will be actual lightning, as opposed to my 25- minute Van Der Graaf barrage from last time. I'll manage to squeeze in an intro to Sort::External, too. Hittin' the road now, Marvin Humphrey Rectangular Research http://www.rectangular.com/ From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Thu Jun 9 01:59:26 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting Summary Message-ID: <58274.130.94.161.230.1118307566.squirrel@joshheumann.com> A great meeting was had by all tonight. As was great beer. Thanks to our presenters in the lightning talks: * MarvinHumphrey, Kinosearch * EricWilhelm, CAD::Drawing * EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern * Schwern, Class::Whitehole * Schwern, MakeMaker and Prefixes * AustinShutz, Inline::C * TomPhoenix, Tor SPEAKERS: if you have any materials, links, slides, raccoon carcasses, etc related to your slides, please email them to me, the list or put them on the kwiki for posterity. Thanks again, everyone! Josh From schwern at pobox.com Thu Jun 9 03:48:36 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 03:48:36 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting Summary In-Reply-To: <58274.130.94.161.230.1118307566.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <58274.130.94.161.230.1118307566.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <20050609104836.GA8851@windhund.schwern.org> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 01:59:26AM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote: > SPEAKERS: if you have any materials, links, slides, raccoon carcasses, etc > related to your slides, please email them to me, the list or put them on > the kwiki for posterity. http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/talks/PREFIX/ -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern 'All anyone gets in a mirror is themselves,' she said. 'But what you gets in a good gumbo is everything.' -- "Witches Abroad" by Terry Prachett From krisb at ring.org Thu Jun 9 11:25:29 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting tonight In-Reply-To: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: > * EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern Eric asked for a bug report but I don't know where to file it: When you have an ambiguous completion search, please list the flags that could match. Thanks. -Kris From schwern at pobox.com Thu Jun 9 13:23:45 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:23:45 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting tonight In-Reply-To: References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 11:25:29AM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote: > > * EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern > > Eric asked for a bug report but I don't know where to file it: > > When you have an ambiguous completion search, please list the flags that > could match. Seconded. Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- Phillip K. Dick From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 17:01:10 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:01:10 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Michael G Schwern # on Thursday 09 June 2005 01:23 pm: >Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3. The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the stuff after the equals: perl -e 'print join(" ", @ARGV), "\n"' -- --foo=~ --foo ~ Is there a good, secure, reliable, cross-platform way to do shell expansion within Perl? Otherwise it seems like a source of confusion (not good since the point of this module is to avoid those.) --Eric -- Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. -- Occam's Razor --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From monte_b1 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 19:54:27 2005 From: monte_b1 at yahoo.com (alberto montelongo) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] urgent : $25/hr perl tutor Message-ID: <20050610025427.33841.qmail@web30511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Good Day All, > I am a new perl user, I know some basic stuff but hashes are very > mysterious to me. I would like to hire an experienced perl programmer > to help me fill in some blanks that I am desperate to understand( I > read the books but I am now very fustrated with syntax). if you are interested > please email me at monte_b1 at yahoo.com or call 503-209-1071 and ask > for Albert. I would like to find someone as soon as today, Thursday > June 9, 2005 to start teaching me some perl but i definately need someone this weekend. > the project i am working is not very difficult but very nice to do because it has many things that perl emphasizes. > thank you all for your help, > Albert --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050610/5d0323de/attachment.html From tom.phoenix at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 20:39:35 2005 From: tom.phoenix at gmail.com (Tom Phoenix) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:39:35 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org> <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> On 6/9/05, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > >Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3. > > The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the > stuff after the equals: Maybe it's a feature, not a bug. Document it as one way to pass parameters without the shell messing with what you type. What? Why are you looking at me like that? --Tom Phoenix From tex at off.org Thu Jun 9 21:49:48 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:49:48 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org> <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 08:39:35PM -0700, Tom Phoenix wrote: > On 6/9/05, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > > >Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3. > > > > The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the > > stuff after the equals: > > Maybe it's a feature, not a bug. Document it as one way to pass > parameters without the shell messing with what you type. > > What? Why are you looking at me like that? > Autoconf has changed a fair amount, but in relatively recent versions it did the same thing- if you wanted to use ~ you referred to it as $HOME. Come to think of it, I don't see why you need to monkey with it at all. If the author wants to interpolate ~ all they have to do is s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/. Document it as a gotcha for the author to be aware of. Also by doing that you can pass off responsibility for cases where the user didn't want shell interpolation, --foo='~' or similar. Otherwise there's no way of knowing. Actually, that makes it a good excuse for calling this "the right thing to do", which I would propose that it is. I can imagine a case where a script is passed a ~ delimited file, where the author doesn't want the script to be trying to split on $HOME. So, let the author choose not to do expansion or not. Austin From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 00:39:05 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:39:05 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net> Message-ID: <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Austin Schutz # on Thursday 09 June 2005 09:49 pm: >Come to think of it, I don't see why you need to monkey with it >at all. If the author wants to interpolate ~ all they have to do is >s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/. Document it as a gotcha for the author to be aware > of. But it's really a gotcha for the user, which is just one more thing for the author to have to document. > Also by doing that you can pass off responsibility for cases > where the user didn't want shell interpolation, --foo='~' or similar. > Otherwise there's no way of knowing. Actually, that makes it a good > excuse for calling this "the right thing to do", which I would > propose that it is. It's actually starting to sound like this is a good reason to call the --whole=thing off. If the user doesn't want shell expansion, they can act accordingly. Also, I was thinking that the issue actually involved all sorts of shell expansion, but it looks like it only really involves the ~. However, it still introduces a few inconsistencies. --this=a{d,c,b}e ne --this a{d,c,b}e > Otherwise there's no way of knowing. I think the best way of knowing is to not go there. --this '~' allows the user to be very clear about what they mean and I don't see why any program or module should second-guess that. If --this=~ is supposed to be treated in a special way (which is actually a work-around to the way the shell treats words), then I don't think it's going to be worth the extra code. If I don't try to make everyone happy, the module is unused. If I do it's useless right? --Eric -- "If you only know how to use a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail." -- Richard B. Johnson --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From tex at off.org Fri Jun 10 01:14:32 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:14:32 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net> <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20050610081432.GZ1934@gblx.net> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:39:05AM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # The following was supposedly scribed by > # Austin Schutz > # on Thursday 09 June 2005 09:49 pm: > > >Come to think of it, I don't see why you need to monkey with it > >at all. If the author wants to interpolate ~ all they have to do is > >s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/. Document it as a gotcha for the author to be aware > > of. > > But it's really a gotcha for the user, which is just one more thing for > the author to have to document. I'm making the assumption that the author will have a good idea of what will be intuitive for the users and code accordingly. > > > Also by doing that you can pass off responsibility for cases > > where the user didn't want shell interpolation, --foo='~' or similar. > > Otherwise there's no way of knowing. Actually, that makes it a good > > excuse for calling this "the right thing to do", which I would > > propose that it is. > > It's actually starting to sound like this is a good reason to call the > --whole=thing off. If the user doesn't want shell expansion, they > can act accordingly. > ..on the other hand, there's nothing forcing anyone to use the --foo=bar syntax in the first place. You could always make it an option the author could enable. If the author has something generally benign in mind, it could be very useful, imo. > Also, I was thinking that the issue actually involved all sorts of shell > expansion, but it looks like it only really involves the ~. > Yeah, I suspect that's correct. > However, it still introduces a few inconsistencies. > > --this=a{d,c,b}e ne --this a{d,c,b}e I'm already confused by this. I would also be wary of using {}s at all w/out quoting, you never know what a given shell might do with them. > > > Otherwise there's no way of knowing. > > I think the best way of knowing is to not go there. --this '~' allows > the user to be very clear about what they mean and I don't see why any > program or module should second-guess that. If --this=~ is supposed to > be treated in a special way (which is actually a work-around to the way > the shell treats words), then I don't think it's going to be worth the > extra code. > > If I don't try to make everyone happy, the module is unused. If I do > it's useless right? > Well, I think there's a sort of third option - give everyone the option to be happy, but set defaults that make you happy. :-) I can think of several instances where an author didn't think a particular feature was very interesting that I found invaluable. That said, it is _your_ module. If you don't feel comfortable doing a particular thing, don't be bullied into it. At least not without a good deal of consideration. In the end you will be the one maintaining the cruft. Austin From schwern at pobox.com Fri Jun 10 06:46:05 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:46:05 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org> <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20050610134605.GB12270@windhund.schwern.org> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 05:01:10PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the stuff > after the equals: > > perl -e 'print join(" ", @ARGV), "\n"' -- --foo=~ --foo ~ > > Is there a good, secure, reliable, cross-platform way to do shell > expansion within Perl? Otherwise it seems like a source of confusion > (not good since the point of this module is to avoid those.) I'd let the program worry about that. Most shell expansion works. $ perl -wle 'print join " ", @ARGV' -- --foo={1,2} --foo=1 --foo=2 Its only ~ expansion that doesn't and that's easy. $path =~ s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/ if defined $ENV{HOME}; -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the implementation and then relied upon it. -- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon> From schwern at pobox.com Fri Jun 10 07:01:09 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:01:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net> <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:39:05AM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > I think the best way of knowing is to not go there. --this '~' allows > the user to be very clear about what they mean and I don't see why any > program or module should second-guess that. If --this=~ is supposed to > be treated in a special way (which is actually a work-around to the way > the shell treats words), then I don't think it's going to be worth the > extra code. I'd say the behavior of --this ~ vs --this=~ isn't your problem, its a Unix shell issue. And your module will work the same as every other Unix program in this regard. So just punt. Here's another way of looking at it. Let's consider what happens if --foo=~ is disallowed from the user's perspective. Presumably there's going to be some sort of error message. $ program --foo=42 '--foo=bar' form not allowed. Please use '--foo bar' instead. At which point the user will say "What the hell?!?" and kick, scream and curse at the draconian program author. The program obviously went through the trouble to parse --foo=42 properly but then refuses to DWIM. This reminds me of this Python annoyance. $ python Python 2.3.5 (#1, Apr 4 2005, 18:50:09) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> exit 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' >>> quit 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' >>> It knows perfectly well what I meant yet refuses to DWIM. Since --foo=~ is the only gotcha here and 99% of the time the right thing to do is to translate it with s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/ if $ENV{HOME} then why not do that by default and provide a way for the program author to turn it off in the rare cases where its not needed? -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Just call me 'Moron Sugar'. http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05182002.shtml From krisb at ring.org Fri Jun 10 09:28:19 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Is there a good, secure, reliable, cross-platform way to do shell > expansion within Perl? http://www.gregorpurdy.com/gregor/psh/ =) -Kris From tex at off.org Fri Jun 10 10:53:52 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:53:52 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net> <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <20050610175352.GB1934@gblx.net> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 07:01:09AM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote: > This reminds me of this Python annoyance. > > $ python > Python 2.3.5 (#1, Apr 4 2005, 18:50:09) > [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)] on darwin > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> exit > 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' > >>> quit > 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' > >>> > > It knows perfectly well what I meant yet refuses to DWIM. > tex at peace:~> python [GCC 3.3 20030226 (prerelease) (SuSE Linux)] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> exit 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' >>> quit 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' >>> import sys >>> sys.exit() tex at peace:~> (flips the bird at the computer) From jeff at vpservices.com Fri Jun 10 11:07:50 2005 From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:07:50 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons Message-ID: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com> Since I had unexpected out of town guests on Wednesday, y'all will have to settle for a virtual lesson for now. I am somewhat surprised to learn that my 10year-old javascript still works (at least in firefox), help yourself at: http://www.vpservices.com/jeff/games/juggle/ :-) -- Jeff From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Jun 10 11:12:42 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] MJD's site Message-ID: <38896.130.94.161.230.1118427162.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Can anyone reach Mark-Jason Dominus' site, http://plover.com? J From david at kineticode.com Fri Jun 10 11:14:37 2005 From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:14:37 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] MJD's site In-Reply-To: <38896.130.94.161.230.1118427162.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <38896.130.94.161.230.1118427162.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: On Jun 10, 2005, at 11:12 , Josh Heumann wrote: > Can anyone reach Mark-Jason Dominus' site, http://plover.com? Not I. D From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Jun 10 11:15:03 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model In-Reply-To: <20050610175352.GB1934@gblx.net> References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com> <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net> <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org> <20050610175352.GB1934@gblx.net> Message-ID: <38905.130.94.161.230.1118427303.squirrel@joshheumann.com> > tex at peace:~> python > [GCC 3.3 20030226 (prerelease) (SuSE Linux)] on linux2 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>>> exit > 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' >>>> quit > 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' >>>> import sys >>>> sys.exit() > tex at peace:~> > > (flips the bird at the computer) I would definitely watch a tv show that was nothing but Austin getting pissed at various programs and language syntaxes (where 'watch' = 'bittorrent'). J From dpool at hevanet.com Fri Jun 10 11:16:22 2005 From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:16:22 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons In-Reply-To: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com> References: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com> Message-ID: <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 11:07 -0700, Jeff Zucker wrote: > Since I had unexpected out of town guests on Wednesday, y'all will have > to settle for a virtual lesson for now. I am somewhat surprised to > learn that my 10year-old javascript still works (at least in firefox), > help yourself at: > > http://www.vpservices.com/jeff/games/juggle/ Nice. What's the difference between "exit" and "stop"? d From ptkwt at aracnet.com Fri Jun 10 11:25:44 2005 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? Message-ID: Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year? Phil From jeff at vpservices.com Fri Jun 10 11:27:48 2005 From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:27:48 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons In-Reply-To: <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com> <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <42A9DBA4.1070409@vpservices.com> David Pool wrote: >On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 11:07 -0700, Jeff Zucker wrote: > > >>Since I had unexpected out of town guests on Wednesday, y'all will have >>to settle for a virtual lesson for now. I am somewhat surprised to >>learn that my 10year-old javascript still works (at least in firefox), >>help yourself at: >> >>http://www.vpservices.com/jeff/games/juggle/ >> >> > >Nice. What's the difference between "exit" and "stop"? > You'd have to use Time::Travel and ask my former self to get the answer. I think it used to redirect to a menu page. -- Jeff From krisb at ring.org Fri Jun 10 11:28:21 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] MJD's site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: me too =) On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, David Wheeler wrote: > On Jun 10, 2005, at 11:12 , Josh Heumann wrote: > > > Can anyone reach Mark-Jason Dominus' site, http://plover.com? > > Not I. > > D > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > > > !DSPAM:42a9d8a4305401930317464! > > From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Jun 10 11:36:36 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com> > Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year? I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup and eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year. I haven't confirmed this directly with the company yet, but there is no mention of volunteering on the website. Josh From ptkwt at aracnet.com Fri Jun 10 11:47:05 2005 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Josh Heumann wrote: > > > Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year? > > I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup and > eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year. I haven't confirmed > this directly with the company yet, but there is no mention of > volunteering on the website. > > Josh > _That's_ why I hadn't heard anything about volunteering this year. That's really bad news. I was hoping to volunteer like I did last year so I could get in. Other than volunteering or presenting a talk (my proposal was rejected this year) - is there any other way to get in free or cheap ;-) ...guess I should look into student discounts (not sure if they have those, though). Phil From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 11:58:42 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons In-Reply-To: <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com> <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200506101158.42987.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # David Pool # on Friday 10 June 2005 11:16 am: >What's the difference between "exit" and "stop"? >>> exit 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.' >>> stop Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? NameError: name 'stop' is not defined --Eric -- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." -- Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Fri Jun 10 12:10:07 2005 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <20050610191007.10487.qmail@web60824.mail.yahoo.com> --- Josh Heumann wrote: > > > Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year? > > I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup > and > eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year. I haven't > confirmed > this directly with the company yet, but there is no mention of > volunteering on the website. If this is true, I wish locals had heard about it sooner. I imagine that there are a few people who may have wanted to sign up for early registration discounts if they couldn't get in free. Those end in 10 days. If my talk hadn't been accepted, I'd be waiting for the volunteer announcements. I've already seen people asking about them on the PLUG list. Cheers, Ovid -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list. Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From tom.phoenix at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 12:15:40 2005 From: tom.phoenix at gmail.com (Tom Phoenix) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:15:40 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <31086b2405061012151c4ff301@mail.gmail.com> On 6/10/05, Phil Tomson wrote: > Other than volunteering or presenting a talk (my proposal was > rejected this year) - is there any other way to get in free or cheap ;-) Can we get a PDX-pm booth this year? Maybe we only need to ask the right person. We would have to set it up with a table and a banner and maybe a chair or two, but we could probably get several PDX-pm people some kind of badges, if you're willing to sell T-shirts for a few hours. --Tom From ptkwt at aracnet.com Fri Jun 10 12:28:48 2005 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <31086b2405061012151c4ff301@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Tom Phoenix wrote: > On 6/10/05, Phil Tomson wrote: > > > Other than volunteering or presenting a talk (my proposal was > > rejected this year) - is there any other way to get in free or cheap ;-) > > Can we get a PDX-pm booth this year? Maybe we only need to ask the > right person. We would have to set it up with a table and a banner and > maybe a chair or two, but we could probably get several PDX-pm people > some kind of badges, if you're willing to sell T-shirts for a few > hours. > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth? It would be a great example of the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-) ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth. (Kidding... just kidding :) Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. Phil From allison at perl.org Fri Jun 10 12:45:52 2005 From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:45:52 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote: > > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth? It would be a great example > of > the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an > example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-) > > ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth. > > (Kidding... just kidding :) > > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" booth. Allison From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Fri Jun 10 12:47:15 2005 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:47:15 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> References: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> Message-ID: <20050610194715.GB19931@dalsemi.com> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:45:52PM -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" > booth. > Yeah, and we can abbreviate it to OSDL! Wait a minute... Colin From ptkwt at aracnet.com Fri Jun 10 12:52:37 2005 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Allison Randal wrote: > On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote: > > > > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth? It would be a great example > > of > > the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an > > example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-) > > > > ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth. > > > > (Kidding... just kidding :) > > > > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. > > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" > booth. > > Allison > Allison, Rumor has it you might have some contacts at O'Reilly ;-) Who would we need to contact to get a booth like this at OSCON? The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL) Phil From jeff at vpservices.com Fri Jun 10 12:58:43 2005 From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:58:43 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A9F0F3.6080004@vpservices.com> Phil Tomson wrote: >The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source >Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL) > Then why not Agile Opensource Languages, I don't believe there's any kind of acronym conflict with the letters "AOL", is there? -- Jeff From krisb at ring.org Fri Jun 10 13:35:27 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> Message-ID: How does one become a boothmonkey? Ook. -Kris On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Allison Randal wrote: > On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote: > > > > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth? It would be a great example > > of > > the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an > > example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-) > > > > ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth. > > > > (Kidding... just kidding :) > > > > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. > > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" > booth. > > Allison > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > > > !DSPAM:42a9eddc136221772784524! > > From krisb at ring.org Fri Jun 10 13:37:05 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Phil Tomson wrote: > The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source > Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL) I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD). -Kris From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Fri Jun 10 13:45:43 2005 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com> --- Phil Tomson wrote: > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. Why stop there? If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically typed: CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python. Surely we can make and interesting acronym out of that. Cheers, Ovid -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list. Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From dpool at hevanet.com Fri Jun 10 13:45:45 2005 From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:45:45 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118436345.9668.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:52 -0700, Phil Tomson wrote: > > > Allison, > > Rumor has it you might have some contacts at O'Reilly ;-) Who would we > need to contact to get a booth like this at OSCON? > > The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source > Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL) I believe the person to contact about booths is Andrew Calvo, but let's not flood him with requests - who wants to make the official contact... Josh? The address is: andrewc at oreilly.com d From chromatic at wgz.org Fri Jun 10 13:43:08 2005 From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:43:08 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> References: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> Message-ID: <1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:45 -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" > booth. Are there any interesting dynamic languages worth talking about without widely-used open source implementations? (From my point of view, that's a "no".) Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization behind a booth receive? -- c From dpool at hevanet.com Fri Jun 10 13:53:07 2005 From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:53:07 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost> References: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org> <1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1118436787.9668.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 13:43 -0700, chromatic wrote: > On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:45 -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > > > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" > > booth. > > Are there any interesting dynamic languages worth talking about without > widely-used open source implementations? > > (From my point of view, that's a "no".) > > Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization > behind a booth receive? Only one. d From tex at off.org Fri Jun 10 14:02:37 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:02:37 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:45:43PM -0700, Ovid wrote: > --- Phil Tomson wrote: > > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. > > Why stop there? If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically > typed: CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python. Surely we can make and > interesting acronym out of that. > Sure, add lisp in there and we can call it CRAPPL. Who wouldn't want that? Austin From gabrielle.roth at xo.com Fri Jun 10 14:04:17 2005 From: gabrielle.roth at xo.com (Roth, Gabrielle) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:04:17 -0600 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? Message-ID: Chromatic wrote: > Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization > behind a booth receive? If it helps, I would be happy to man the booth for a while if we need body count. I don't need a pass. Ovid wrote: > Why stop there? If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically > typed: CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python. Surely we can make and > interesting acronym out of that. Now you're talkin'. ;) Speaking of t-shirts...what's the word? - gabrielle - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Jun 10 14:04:19 2005 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: 10 Jun 2005 14:04:19 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net> References: <20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com> <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net> Message-ID: <864qc5exf0.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Austin" == Austin Schutz writes: >> Why stop there? If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically >> typed: CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python. Surely we can make and >> interesting acronym out of that. >> Austin> Sure, add lisp in there and we can call it CRAPPL. Who wouldn't want Austin> that? Need to add Haskell too, even if that breaks the "Dynamically Typed" restriction. Oh, and Prolog. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From ptkwt at aracnet.com Fri Jun 10 14:32:03 2005 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, chromatic wrote: > On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:45 -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > > > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" > > booth. > > Are there any interesting dynamic languages worth talking about without > widely-used open source implementations? > > (From my point of view, that's a "no".) > > Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization > behind a booth receive? > Ah, good point. So maybe it would be better to have seperate booths. I just figured that they had a limit no the number of booths they could have. Phil From schwern at pobox.com Fri Jun 10 15:21:37 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:21:37 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:37:05PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote: > > The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source > > Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL) > > I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD). Lightweight Open Languages Dynamic and Open Source -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern ROCKS FALL! EVERYONE DIES! http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05032002.shtml From allison at perl.org Fri Jun 10 15:28:10 2005 From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:28:10 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ff1ee0e747680e64259bfb13fa0642f@perl.org> On Jun 10, 2005, at 14:32, Phil Tomson wrote: > > Ah, good point. So maybe it would be better to have seperate booths. > I > just figured that they had a limit no the number of booths they could > have. Not usually. And we're in the Oregon convention center this year, which'll mean plenty of space in the exhibit hall. Andrew Calvo is the right person to contact about booth space. I'll forward Phil and Josh the email I just got from him about it. > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Josh Heumann wrote: >> >> I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup and >> eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year. I just confirmed this with Nat. No volunteers this year. On Jun 10, 2005, at 11:47, Phil Tomson wrote: > ...guess I should look into student discounts (not sure if they have > those, though). Full-time students get 65% off: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2005/create/ord_os05 Allison From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Jun 10 15:35:40 2005 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: 10 Jun 2005 15:35:40 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org> References: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <86k6l1demb.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael G Schwern writes: >> I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD). Michael> Lightweight Open Languages Michael> Dynamic and Open Source Little Source Distributions -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From jkeroes at eli.net Fri Jun 10 15:36:01 2005 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:36:01 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org> References: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: On Jun 10, 2005, at 3:21 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote: > On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:37:05PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote: > >>> The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source >>> Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL) >>> >> >> I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD). >> > > Lightweight Open Languages > > Dynamic and Open Source Can I play, too? Object Marketing Genius Widely Targeted Formulations Believable Buzzword Quagmire From tex at off.org Fri Jun 10 15:39:03 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:39:03 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <20050610223903.GD1934@gblx.net> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 03:36:01PM -0700, Joshua Keroes wrote: > Can I play, too? > > Object Marketing Genius > Widely Targeted Formulations > Believable Buzzword Quagmire Sure.. how about Portland Object Oriented Dynamic Languages. Open source goes w/out saying, why else would you be at OSCON. *shrug* Austin From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Jun 10 16:20:41 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com> > Speaking of t-shirts...what's the word? I'm in the process of connecting our designer with the printer so they can chat about formats and stuff I don't understand. > On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 13:43 -0700, chromatic wrote: >> Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization >> behind a booth receive? > > Only one. So it would appear that we're going with one group per booth to maximize free passes. I'll check with Andrew Calvo and see if that's really the limit. They can't really expect one person to man the booth the whole time. Josh From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Jun 10 17:07:00 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:07:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] MDJ's site down Message-ID: <41807.130.94.161.230.1118448420.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Apparently, his email server is also down. Short of a phone call, anyone know another way to get ahold of him and let him know his server's down? Josh -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Date: Fri, June 10, 2005 4:41 pm To: ********************************************** ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY ** ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE ** ********************************************** The original message was received at Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:43:38 -0700 from localhost [127.0.0.1] ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... Deferred: Connection timed out with plover.com. Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: untitled-3.1 Url: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050611/b4a1854d/untitled-3.pl From allyn at well.com Fri Jun 10 17:17:33 2005 From: allyn at well.com (Mark Allyn) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't tell anyone I said this . . . . . When I volunteered there (and at every other conference/convention/symposium/your-choice-of-nown), the one thing that I have noticed that is common is the stupid simplicity of the badges. All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent printer . . . .. Need I say any more? Luv Cleara From randall at sonofhans.net Fri Jun 10 17:21:42 2005 From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:21:42 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 10, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Mark Allyn wrote: > All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent > printer . . . .. ... and a well-demagnetized moral compass. that's pathetic. r From allyn at well.com Fri Jun 10 17:24:41 2005 From: allyn at well.com (Mark Allyn) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net> References: <20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com> <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net> Message-ID: Add shell, you get SCRAPPL On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Austin Schutz wrote: > On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:45:43PM -0700, Ovid wrote: > > --- Phil Tomson wrote: > > > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. > > > > Why stop there? If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically > > typed: CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python. Surely we can make and > > interesting acronym out of that. > > > > Sure, add lisp in there and we can call it CRAPPL. Who wouldn't want > that? > > Austin > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > > From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Fri Jun 10 17:48:34 2005 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050611004834.96967.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Allyn wrote: > All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent > printer . . . .. > > Need I say any more? I hope you don't. May I point out that more than one person who works for O'Reilly is on this list? Perl's not the only thing you can shoot yourself in the foot with. Please, don't encourage unethical behavior. Cheers, Ovid -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list. Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From dpool at hevanet.com Fri Jun 10 18:07:35 2005 From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:07:35 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <1118452055.5055.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 16:20 -0700, Josh Heumann wrote: > > > Speaking of t-shirts...what's the word? > > I'm in the process of connecting our designer with the printer so they can > chat about formats and stuff I don't understand. > > > > > On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 13:43 -0700, chromatic wrote: > >> Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization > >> behind a booth receive? > > > > Only one. > > So it would appear that we're going with one group per booth to maximize > free passes. I'll check with Andrew Calvo and see if that's really the > limit. They can't really expect one person to man the booth the whole > time. By session passes I assumed that c was referring to passes into the keynote sessions etc. I'm sure O'Reilly would allow several people into the exhibit hall. In fact they've told me that you can get into there for free: "You're most welcome to sign up for an exhibit hall pass--that's a free pass that gives you access to the Products & Services sessions, evening events, and birds of a feather sessions as well as the exhibit hall." Regarding single or multiple booths, I don't think the decision should be based on weaseling into the sessions. A big booth looks active while spreading out looks boring so I'd recommend staffing a single booth together. d From ptkwt at aracnet.com Fri Jun 10 22:43:16 2005 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Mark Allyn wrote: > > Don't tell anyone I said this . . . . . > > When I volunteered there (and at every other > conference/convention/symposium/your-choice-of-nown), the one thing > that I have noticed that is common is the stupid simplicity of the > badges. > > All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent > printer . . . .. > > Need I say any more? > Well, that's not what I meant by finding ways to get in free. I was referring to some legitimate way. Phil From dhmedley at aol.com Sat Jun 11 08:31:03 2005 From: dhmedley at aol.com (dhmedley@aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:31:03 -0400 Subject: [Pdx-pm] (no subject) Message-ID: <8C73CB1B663EDFA-C14-B29D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> > How does one become a boothmonkey? Ook. >-Kris I have a bit of experience with that ( dragging knuckles and what not ) so sign me up, too ... and will be paying my own way to attend. >On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Allison Randal wrote: > >On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote: > > > > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth? It would be a great example of > > the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an > > example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-) > > > > ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth. > > > > (Kidding... just kidding :) > > > > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel. > >That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" > >booth. > > >Allison > Dennis H. Medley DHMedley at aol.com From allison at perl.org Sat Jun 11 10:33:52 2005 From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:33:52 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1118452055.5055.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <1118452055.5055.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6544bef47c0e168b4ad89e7004b4935e@perl.org> On Jun 10, 2005, at 18:07, David Pool wrote: > On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 16:20 -0700, Josh Heumann wrote: >> So it would appear that we're going with one group per booth to >> maximize >> free passes. I'll check with Andrew Calvo and see if that's really >> the >> limit. They can't really expect one person to man the booth the whole >> time. > > By session passes I assumed that c was referring to passes into the > keynote sessions etc. I'm sure O'Reilly would allow several people into > the exhibit hall. In fact they've told me that you can get into there > for free: > > "You're > most welcome to sign up for an exhibit hall pass--that's a free pass > that gives you access to the Products & Services sessions, evening > events, and birds of a feather sessions as well as the exhibit hall." Yup. If you select "Exhibit Hall ONLY" in Step 1 of the registration form, it's free. You get to see a good bit of the conference that way. It's especially good if you can't get time off work, but still want to join in the fun. Allison From marvin at rectangular.com Mon Jun 13 10:41:12 2005 From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:41:12 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays Message-ID: Greets, I've got a tied array class that can grow to a very large size (using multiple files) mostly written. Am I reinventing the wheel? I haven't tracked anything like it down on CPAN so far. In a nutshell, the scheme uses index files which store lookup data (filenum, offset, length) against the data files, allowing storage of arbitrary content. Deletions don't disappear from the data files unless you optimize the whole thing. The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator, so that's out. Anything else? Marvin Humphrey Rectangular Research http://www.rectangular.com/ From schwern at pobox.com Mon Jun 13 12:47:24 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:47:24 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:41:12AM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > I've got a tied array class that can grow to a very large size (using > multiple files) mostly written. Am I reinventing the wheel? I > haven't tracked anything like it down on CPAN so far. In a nutshell, > the scheme uses index files which store lookup data (filenum, offset, > length) against the data files, allowing storage of arbitrary > content. Deletions don't disappear from the data files unless you > optimize the whole thing. > > The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator, > so that's out. Anything else? Why do the details of the record separator, a purely internal detail, matter? -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the implementation and then relied upon it. -- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon> From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Mon Jun 13 13:12:52 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] [Fwd: O'Reilly OSCON "Locals Only" UG Discount--Early Registration Ending] Message-ID: <56944.67.131.106.4.1118693572.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Reminder from O'Reilly about the local discount. It's no volunteering opportunity, but it's better than nothing. J -------- Original Message -------- Subject: O'Reilly OSCON "Locals Only" UG Discount--Early Registration Ending From: Marsee Henon Date: Mon, June 13, 2005 12:34 pm Hi UG Leader, The O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON) is returning to Portland, Oregon. Once again we're offering a special discount to the locals-- User Group members in Oregon and Washington. With this "locals only" discount, your members get 20% off of OSCON registration. Anyone who registers by June 20 gets a double discount--20% off of the early registration price. After the June 20, your members receive 20% off the regular conference pricing. Use code os05porug when you register online: To register, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2005/create/ord_os05 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Oregon Convention Center 777 N. E. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd Portland, Oregon 97212 August 1- 5, 2005 http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ We also need help getting the OSCON wiki up to speed. Now is your chance to share your projects, local hangouts & advice with other OSCON attendees. http://wiki.oreillynet.com/oscon/index.cgi Please let your members know! Marsee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Marsee Henon O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 707-827-7103 800-998-9938 Fax 707-829-0104 marsee at oreilly.com http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com/ http://conferences.oreilly.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From marvin at rectangular.com Mon Jun 13 15:48:08 2005 From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:48:08 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays In-Reply-To: <20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org> References: <20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: On Jun 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote: > On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:41:12AM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > >> I've got a tied array class that can grow to a very large size (using >> multiple files) mostly written. Am I reinventing the wheel? I >> haven't tracked anything like it down on CPAN so far. In a nutshell, >> the scheme uses index files which store lookup data (filenum, offset, >> length) against the data files, allowing storage of arbitrary >> content. Deletions don't disappear from the data files unless you >> optimize the whole thing. >> >> The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator, >> so that's out. Anything else? >> > > Why do the details of the record separator, a purely internal detail, > matter? > > > -- > Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/ > ~schwern > You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the > implementation and then relied upon it. > -- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon> > > Marvin Humphrey Rectangular Research http://www.rectangular.com/ From marvin at rectangular.com Mon Jun 13 15:51:03 2005 From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:51:03 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays In-Reply-To: References: <20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: (whoops on that blank message...) On Jun 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote: >> The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator, >> so that's out. Anything else? > > Why do the details of the record separator, a purely internal detail, > matter? > I need to be able to delimit arbitrary data -- for instance, packed ints which may contain bytes that look like nulls or newlines. The documentation for DB_File seems to indicate that DB_RECNO is for text only: "DB_RECNO provides an interface to flat text files. Both variable and fixed length records are supported... " It goes on to talk about the the delimiter as being a single byte only... If you could use a 16 byte random string as a delimiter, then you could probabilistically get away with delimiting arbitrary data, though I wonder how long inititialization would take for a big file... It would have been clearer if I'd elaborated on my assumption: Since DB_File DB_RECNO uses a single byte record separator -- rather than addressing information (!) -- it's appropriate only for text files. Short ones. I'm surprised that no one's suggested a module close to what I described. I'll consider breaking this code out of Kinosearch. Marvin Humphrey Rectangular Research http://www.rectangular.com/ From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Tue Jun 14 08:55:33 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon Message-ID: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com> This is the information on getting a free both. We can only get one free pass (access to the exhibit hall and products and services track sessions, plus night events), but they don't seem to have a problem with us sharing it. Is this still something we're interested in? Josh -------- Original Message -------- From: Andrew Calvo Hi Josh, Yes, you can have a free 10'x10' booth. The booth is empty, so you'll need to rent carpet, bring or rent tables/chairs/electricity, etc. You would need to staff it on Wed from 10-4:30 and 6-7:30, and then on Thursday, 10-4:30. You will get as many booth staff passes as you need for staffing the booth, and we'll provide one full conference pass that gets you into sessions on Wed-Friday. Please fill out the attached contract, write in $0 for amount due and fax back to me, with a print and web logo and 50 word description/URL. Thanks, Andrew >Andrew, my name is Josh Heumann, and I am the leader of the Portland > Perlmongers. Allison Randal forwarded me your email about free booths > in the exhibit hall for nonprofits, and I was wondering if that was > still available. Also, if it is, what times we would need to staff it, > and what level of access is required to man the booth. > >Thanks in advance, > >Josh Heumann -- Conferences Sales Manager O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Hwy. N. Sebastopol, CA 95472 Ph: 707-827-7176, Fax: 707-829-0104 andrewc at oreilly.com From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 15 16:18:46 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:18:46 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern Message-ID: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Got the ambigous auto-completion helpfullness and --this=thing (should even to --this=thing=that if you're using a hash.) No love for your ~'s. That's the shell's fault. Release is maybe a week or two out still (mostly for needing to check out Pod::Readme.) Feel free to play. Send comments, tests, etc. http://scratchcomputing.com/svn/Getopt-Modern/trunk/ Any thoughts on the name? Thanks, Eric -- Peer's Law: The solution to the problem changes the problem. --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 15 16:31:39 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:31:39 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon In-Reply-To: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Josh Heumann # on Tuesday 14 June 2005 08:55 am: >Is this still something we're interested in? Yes. I'll labor for a part of a session pass. What's the contribution/session hourly ratio? I see 14.5 hours of booth-staffing required and (at-a-glance ~21 hours of sessions available.) Maybe just call it one-for-one to be safe? Should we wiki a sign-up sheet or what? How many people in the group would like to go but don't plan to fully spend the prescribed amount of time/money? --Eric -- "Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse." -- Murphy's Corollary --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From marvin at rectangular.com Wed Jun 15 16:52:28 2005 From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:52:28 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern In-Reply-To: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Jun 15, 2005, at 4:18 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Got the ambigous auto-completion helpfullness and --this=thing (should > even to --this=thing=that if you're using a hash.) No love for your > ~'s. That's the shell's fault. Groovy. Good move, methinks. My fingers type --option=foo by default, too. > Any thoughts on the name? Getopt::Strict? Have you sent any messages to modules at perl.org? The PAUSE admins hanging out there have a lot of experience in guiding namespace choices. Marvin Humphrey Rectangular Research http://www.rectangular.com/ From tex at off.org Wed Jun 15 17:01:05 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:01:05 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern In-Reply-To: References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 04:52:28PM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > > On Jun 15, 2005, at 4:18 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > > > Got the ambigous auto-completion helpfullness and --this=thing (should > > even to --this=thing=that if you're using a hash.) No love for your > > ~'s. That's the shell's fault. > > Groovy. Good move, methinks. My fingers type --option=foo by > default, too. > > > Any thoughts on the name? > I must be getting too old. I'm starting to think net::sbcglobal::Getopt and alias as Getopt sounds like a good idea. Maybe I'm just spending too much time with the java weenies. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with Getopt::Modern, other than the inherent trouble with naming modules in general (the next variety will be Getopt::Postmodern). Austin From schwern at pobox.com Wed Jun 15 17:05:52 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:05:52 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern In-Reply-To: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20050616000551.GA3777@windhund.schwern.org> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 04:18:46PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Any thoughts on the name? Anything called "modern" inevitably winds up looking even more dated as it starts to age. Its like those documentary films from the 60s "Modern downtown Toledo, Ohio!" "Marvel at our ultra-modern Ford Edsil manfacturing plant!" Getopt::Longer? :) Getopt::Long::mumble? Since it handles both short and long, "long" seems a bit of a misnomer. In times like this its a good idea to step back and enumerate what the module actually does and what sets it apart from everything else, particularly Getopt::Long. Getopt::Modern doesn't suggest anything to the user about what it really is: "Getopt::Long with some fixes applied". But Getopt::Long::Fixed sorta sucks. What's fixed? What was broken? Was it really broken or just different? Since its really just a non-backwards compatible version of Getopt::Long maybe you can call it Getopt::Long2 in the vein of Apache2. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern ROCKS FALL! EVERYONE DIES! http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05032002.shtml From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 17:10:32 2005 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern In-Reply-To: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net> Message-ID: <20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com> --- Austin Schutz wrote: > I must be getting too old. I'm starting to think > net::sbcglobal::Getopt and alias as Getopt sounds like a good idea. > Maybe I'm just spending too much time with the java weenies. Maybe it's just me, but I often thought that creating package names from reversed domain names was a big bucket of stupid. When people from four companies release conceptually similar modules, perhaps even inheriting from/delegating to one another, the names make life much more confusing. > Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with Getopt::Modern, other > than the inherent trouble with naming modules in general (the next > variety > will be Getopt::Postmodern). Hmm ... I kinda like Getopt::Postmodern. Whatever happened to the humor of popular modules like Carp? Cheers, Curtis -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list. Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From tex at off.org Wed Jun 15 17:31:59 2005 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:31:59 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern In-Reply-To: <20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net> <20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050616003159.GO1706@gblx.net> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 05:10:32PM -0700, Ovid wrote: > --- Austin Schutz wrote: > > I must be getting too old. I'm starting to think > > net::sbcglobal::Getopt and alias as Getopt sounds like a good idea. > > Maybe I'm just spending too much time with the java weenies. > > Maybe it's just me, but I often thought that creating package names > from reversed domain names was a big bucket of stupid. When people > from four companies release conceptually similar modules, perhaps even > inheriting from/delegating to one another, the names make life much > more confusing. > Yes, if they inherit or delegate from each other and keep identical names, it can cause confusion. Though.. having different names for the same thing doesn't really help that situation, does it? I like it when four different companies are able to release the same thing without having a namespace collision, especially when they are packaging up some larger framework. If the modules really do have similar functionality, I can compare and contrast them to see what will work for me - or use both without fear of collisions. I dunno, but I find it a bummer that people a. have to come up with something clever to mean what they want but not say it explicitly, and b. can't have concise names or "top level" modules because the modules list people don't like them and will debate endlessly about what the best answer is to 'a'. *shrug*.. of course it's really just a matter of convention. There's nothing to say that people _can't_ do it that way, they just _don't_. Of course in C++ (java too?) you can dump something into your namespace without fouling everyone else's. Not sure about perl's alias. Maybe you might know something about that. :-) Austin From schwern at pobox.com Thu Jun 16 00:02:14 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:02:14 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern In-Reply-To: <20050616003159.GO1706@gblx.net> References: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net> <20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com> <20050616003159.GO1706@gblx.net> Message-ID: <20050616070214.GA5867@windhund.schwern.org> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 05:31:59PM -0700, Austin Schutz wrote: > I dunno, but I find it a bummer that people a. have to come up with > something clever to mean what they want but not say it explicitly, and > b. can't have concise names or "top level" modules because the modules list > people don't like them and will debate endlessly about what the best answer > is to 'a'. search.cpan.org has pretty much made the module list obsolescent. I wouldn't even worry about it anymore. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern 'All anyone gets in a mirror is themselves,' she said. 'But what you gets in a good gumbo is everything.' -- "Witches Abroad" by Terry Prachett From krisb at ring.org Thu Jun 16 13:59:51 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing Message-ID: I am looking for a system that will let me run inline tests without making a separate file. Something like sumthing.pl: ================================================= #!/your/perl/here -w use strict; eval {use Test::Inline::No::Really;} if $ARGV[0] eq 'test'; =begin testing is(summary(1,2,3,4,5), 15, "sum-tastic!"); exit; =end testing print qq{=> }, summary(@ARGV), qq{\n}; sub summary { my $sum = 0; foreach (@_) { $sum += $_; } return $sum; } ================================================= sumthing.pl 1 2 3 4 => 10 sumthing.pl test ok 1 - sum-tastic! Motivation: I am writing a CGI program that may end up getting moved alot, and I don't want to juggle a group of files with test files, etc. I have found Pod::Tests, so I guess I could write Test::Inline::No::Really like this: ================================================= package Test::Inline::No::Really; use Pod::Tests; sub import { my $p = Pod::Tests->new; $p->parse_file($0); eval $p->build_tests($p->tests); } ================================================= I thought there was an existing package like this but I haven't found it after some googling today. Can anyone give me some links or ideas? Thanks. -Kris From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 16 14:07:17 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:07:17 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506161407.17737.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Kris Bosland # on Thursday 16 June 2005 01:59 pm: >Motivation: I am writing a CGI program that may >end up getting moved alot, and I don't want to >juggle a group of files with test files, etc. One suggestion: symlink to the program. I know. It doesn't do what you said you want to. Sorry. It depends on whether you want to make/Build this thing in the "normal" way, but my first thought is that you are going to end up juggling some set of files if you do have any kind of build system and that you might as well go with the flow. If inline testing ultimately gives you a way to 'make test' or './Build test', then I guess go for it. --Eric -- "Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." -- Ronald Reagan --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From krisb at ring.org Thu Jun 16 14:26:53 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: <200506161407.17737.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > >Motivation: I am writing a CGI program that may > >end up getting moved alot, and I don't want to > >juggle a group of files with test files, etc. > > One suggestion: symlink to the program. Well, when I say move, I mean it may move from a unix apache to Win32. But even on one file cluster, Apache may do funny things with symlinks, depending on paranoid security setups. Thanks. -Kris From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 16 14:29:09 2005 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:29:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern In-Reply-To: <20050616000551.GA3777@windhund.schwern.org> References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <20050616000551.GA3777@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <200506161429.09196.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Michael G Schwern # on Wednesday 15 June 2005 05:05 pm: >Getopt::Long::Fixed sorta sucks Right. I'm starting to think that Getopt::User might be the ticket, particularly given all the scathing reactionary programmer-y feedback that I'm getting on module-authors. I've just finished Cooper's "The Inmates are Running the Asylum", so that's partly what is hatching this module (that and "I want an API".) Although I'm not using a user persona, I am trying to design the rules from the user's point of view (assuming a non-apologist user, which of course is hard to find among programmers.) So, now I'm working on a user's guide and a whole slew of stuff to convince others that this set of rules is the right way to do it. http://scratchcomputing.com/svn/Getopt-Modern/trunk/ data/notes/why_order_matters.txt lib/Getopt/Modern/UserGuide.pod Johan seemed like he would be interested in changing Getopt::Long, so maybe we don't even need a name. But hey, if I do go with Getopt::User, then Getopt::User::Guide becomes a no-brainer for a place to put the user (not programmer) documentation. Thus, instead of explaining these rules in your own manpage you just say "see L for details about how to use options." --Eric -- "...the bourgeoisie were hated from both ends: by the proles, because they had all the money, and by the intelligentsia, because of their tendency to spend it on lawn ornaments." -- Neal Stephenson --------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------- From schwern at pobox.com Thu Jun 16 19:43:29 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:43:29 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 01:59:51PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote: > I am looking for a system that will let me run inline tests > without making a separate file. Test::Class. Doesn't matter if your code is a class or not, it'll work. The syntax is a bit different, tests in methods instead of tests in POD, but the idea is the same. > I have found Pod::Tests, so I guess I could write > Test::Inline::No::Really like this: > > ================================================= > package Test::Inline::No::Really; > use Pod::Tests; > sub import { > my $p = Pod::Tests->new; > $p->parse_file($0); > > eval $p->build_tests($p->tests); > } > ================================================= > > I thought there was an existing package like this > but I haven't found it after some googling today. > Can anyone give me some links or ideas? That looks fairly sensible to me, though I never liked the "import == testing" thing. Seems too surprising and also walls off the "use Foo" interface from other uses. Slightly better to have to pass in a :test flag or something. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal. -- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Thu Jun 16 21:40:37 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon In-Reply-To: <200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> References: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <34225.130.94.161.230.1118983237.squirrel@joshheumann.com> > Yes. I'll labor for a part of a session pass. What's the > contribution/session hourly ratio? I see 14.5 hours of booth-staffing > required and (at-a-glance ~21 hours of sessions available.) Maybe just > call it one-for-one to be safe? > > Should we wiki a sign-up sheet or what? How many people in the group > would like to go but don't plan to fully spend the prescribed amount of > time/money? That's one, do we have any others? We can start a wiki page, but I'd like to know that there's at least a bit of interest. Josh From glim at mycybernet.net Thu Jun 16 21:46:00 2005 From: glim at mycybernet.net (Gerard Lim) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:46 -0400 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Last-minute reminder -- YAPC::NA 2005 Message-ID: Here's a last reminder about Yet Another Perl Conference, North America (YAPC::NA 2005) http://yapc.org/America In case anyone out there has been sitting on the fence or has been meaning to register but has put it on the backburner until now, here is a final information package. Dates: Mon - Wed June 27 - 29, 2005 (11 days from now!) Location: 89 Chestnut Street, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada Accommodations ============== Due to recent renegotiations with the conference facility and hotel, 89 Chestnut, there are still a few rooms left. For details on accommodations go to: http://www.yapc.org/America/accommodations-2005.shtml For quick and easy booking: 89 Chestnut Phone: +1-416-977-0707 Conference booking code: perl0626 The base rate is approx. CAD$80/night, which is *great* for downtown Toronto. Add in taxes and in-room high speed internet and it's up to about CAD$95/night. Book yourself to check-in on Sunday the 26th and check-out on the morning of Wednesday the 29th. Conference Registration ======================= Registration is easy and cheap - only USD$85 - see http://yapc.org/America/register-2005.shtml for details or register directly online at http://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=registrant%20info&conference_id=423 The schedule is awesome - http://yapc.org/America/schedule-2005/day1.html >From here, click on the "Day 2" and "Day 3" spots near the top to go from page to page. Click on a talk name to get details regarding the talk. Speakers include Larry Wall, Allison Randal, Autrijus Tang, Brian Ingerson, Andy Lester, chromatic, brian d foy, Chip Salzenberg & Dan Sugalski... and many more! [ This message was sent by Gerard Lim on behalf of the YAPC::NA 2005 Conference organizing committee of the Toronto Perl Mongers. Thanks for your patience and support. ] From krisb at ring.org Thu Jun 16 23:16:31 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: I am now doing something similar, but with a test method, so I have use Test::Inline::No::Really; my $t = Test::Inline::No::Really->new; #parses $t->test; #I want this to return test results, #e.g. # 1..8 # ok 1 - new() returned something # ok 2 - and it's the right class # ok 3 - sec() # ok 4 - min() # ok 5 - hour() # not ok 6 - day() # # Failed test (- at line 16) # # got: '16' # # expected: '17' # ok 7 - month() # ok 8 - year() # # Looks like you failed 1 tests of 8. #haven't gotten that working yet Thanks for the advice. This is a little frustrating up front but I am looking forward to upfront tests and specification driven coding. Thanks. -Kris On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Michael G Schwern wrote: > On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 01:59:51PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote: > > I am looking for a system that will let me run inline tests > > without making a separate file. > > Test::Class. Doesn't matter if your code is a class or not, it'll work. > The syntax is a bit different, tests in methods instead of tests in POD, > but the idea is the same. > > > > I have found Pod::Tests, so I guess I could write > > Test::Inline::No::Really like this: > > > > ================================================= > > package Test::Inline::No::Really; > > use Pod::Tests; > > sub import { > > my $p = Pod::Tests->new; > > $p->parse_file($0); > > > > eval $p->build_tests($p->tests); > > } > > ================================================= > > > > I thought there was an existing package like this > > but I haven't found it after some googling today. > > Can anyone give me some links or ideas? > > That looks fairly sensible to me, though I never liked the "import == testing" > thing. Seems too surprising and also walls off the "use Foo" interface from > other uses. Slightly better to have to pass in a :test flag or something. > > > -- > Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern > Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal. > -- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett > > > !DSPAM:42b238dd144097936921121! > > From marvin at rectangular.com Fri Jun 17 04:14:07 2005 From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 04:14:07 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon In-Reply-To: <34225.130.94.161.230.1118983237.squirrel@joshheumann.com> References: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com> <200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> <34225.130.94.161.230.1118983237.squirrel@joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <88E2DA8C-4DB0-4042-9BDC-FEAA8D99E99B@rectangular.com> On Jun 16, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Josh Heumann wrote: > > >> Yes. I'll labor for a part of a session pass. What's the >> contribution/session hourly ratio? I see 14.5 hours of booth- >> staffing >> required and (at-a-glance ~21 hours of sessions available.) Maybe >> just >> call it one-for-one to be safe? >> >> Should we wiki a sign-up sheet or what? How many people in the group >> would like to go but don't plan to fully spend the prescribed >> amount of >> time/money? >> > > That's one, do we have any others? I'd like to participate. Marvin Humphrey Rectangular Research http://www.rectangular.com/ From krisb at ring.org Fri Jun 17 14:34:20 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: Say, the wacky filehandle tying you are doing in pod2test*, does that work on Win32 perl? I would like to capture test results from the inline test I am working on so I can massage them before printing. Thanks. -Kris * e.g. package Catch; sub TIEHANDLE { my($class, $var) = @_; return bless { var => $var }, $class; } sub PRINT { my($self) = shift; ${'main::'.$self->{var}} .= join '', @_; } sub OPEN {} # XXX Hackery in case the user redirects sub CLOSE {} # XXX STDERR/STDOUT. This is not the behavior we want. sub READ {} sub READLINE {} sub GETC {} sub BINMODE {} my $Original_File = '%s'; package main; # pre-5.8.0's warns aren't caught by a tied STDERR. $SIG{__WARN__} = sub { $main::_STDERR_ .= join '', @_; }; tie *STDOUT, 'Catch', '_STDOUT_' or die $!; tie *STDERR, 'Catch', '_STDERR_' or die $!; From schwern at pobox.com Sat Jun 18 13:09:46 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:09:46 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: References: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <20050618200946.GA17348@windhund.schwern.org> On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 02:34:20PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote: > Say, the wacky filehandle tying you are doing in pod2test*, does > that work on Win32 perl? I would like to capture test results from the > inline test I am working on so I can massage them before printing. Yeah, it should have no problem. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern 'All anyone gets in a mirror is themselves,' she said. 'But what you gets in a good gumbo is everything.' -- "Witches Abroad" by Terry Prachett From krisb at ring.org Tue Jun 21 16:43:04 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: <20050618200946.GA17348@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > Say, the wacky filehandle tying you are doing in pod2test*, does > > that work on Win32 perl? I would like to capture test results from the > > inline test I am working on so I can massage them before printing. > > Yeah, it should have no problem. I am having a problem trying to make this work with Test::More. Is there some IO redirection happening there? I have included an example below. BTW, should I call you 'Michal' or 'Schwern'? Thanks. -Kris >cat test/catch.pl #!/usr/$work/bin/perl -w use strict; package Catch; sub TIEHANDLE { my($class, $var) = @_; return bless { var => $var }, $class; } sub PRINT { my($self) = shift; no strict "refs"; my $var = 'main::'.$self->{var}; print STDERR "adding =>@_<= to =>$var<=\n"; ${$var} .= join '', @_; } sub OPEN {} # XXX Hackery in case the user redirects sub CLOSE {} # XXX STDERR/STDOUT. This is not the behavior we want. sub READ {} sub READLINE {} sub GETC {} sub BINMODE {} package main; use vars qw($_MYSTDOUT_); $_MYSTDOUT_ = "bar\n"; my $codestring1 = "print qw{foo\n};\n"; my $codestring2 = "use Test::More qw(no_plan);\nprint qw{foofoo\n};\n"; my $codestring3 = "use File::Find;\nprint qw{foofoofoo\n};\n"; tie *STDOUT, 'Catch', '_MYSTDOUT_' or die $!; #tie *STDERR, 'Catch', '_MYSTDERR_' or die $!; my $result = eval $codestring1; $result = eval $codestring2; $result = eval $codestring3; untie *STDOUT; untie *STDERR; no strict "refs"; print "got =>$_MYSTDOUT_<=\n"; __END__ >perl test/catch.pl adding =>foo<= to =>main::_MYSTDOUT_<= adding =>foofoofoo<= to =>main::_MYSTDOUT_<= got =>bar foofoofoofoo<= > From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Tue Jun 21 16:51:23 2005 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:51:23 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] [marsee@oreilly.com: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, June 17] Message-ID: <20050621235123.GB16627@joshheumann.com> ----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon ----- From: Marsee Henon Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, June 17 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:31:47 -0700 List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on codepirates.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=6.0 tests=none autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3 X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders June 17, 2005 ================================================================ -Going to OSCON -Need a Speaker? -Put Up an O'Reilly OSCON Banner, Get a Free Book -Promotional Material Available ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review books are available Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request. 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Jobs Switches to Intel: A Review of the WWDC 05 Keynote -Using Tabbed Browsing in Internet Explorer 6 -Using Microsoft's Malicious Software Removal Tool -Porting a Project from Visual Studio .NET to Mono -How to Talk About Jini, J2EE, and Web Services at a Cocktail Party -Exploring Laszlo Classes, Attributes, and Events -Adam Williams: Massive Guitars, Micro Computers -Bring Your MIDI Music to Life -MAKE's Rebellious Credo: Void the Warranty! -MAKE: Blog ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. 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To register for the conference, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/where2005/create/ord_where ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***Historical Maps Online David Rumsey writes about his collection of more than 150,000 historical maps of the Americas and the world, many of which he has made available free to the public in an online map library. At O'Reilly's Where 2.0 Conference, David will draw on his personal map collection, as well as his work with geographic information systems, to discuss how information of all kinds has been mapped and will be mapped in the future. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/06/02/davidrumsey.html ***Creating a Textbook My Way: An Interview with Charles Anderson Charles Anderson is an assistant professor in the Division of Computer Science at Western Oregon University, teaching mostly networking and operating system courses. Being very particular about the materials covered in his classes, he's had difficulty finding appropriate and timely textbooks. Learn how Charles used SafariU to create his custom textbook, while avoiding copyright fair use limitations and the time-consuming process of gathering appropriate materials. Check out the SafariU homepage for details and a demo. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/news/safariuanderson.html ***Wire Frame Your Site Many elements of a site affect how successfuly it communicates with users. Wire frames can untangle your site's layout from its graphical communication, to help boost usability, logical content flow, and support the creation of a compelling graphic design. http://www.sitepoint.com/article/wire-frame-your-site --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Live Backups of MySQL Using Replication One of the difficulties with a large and active MySQL database is making clean backups without having to bring the server down. A simple method to ensure reliable backups is to set up replication for MySQL. Russell Dyer, author of "MySQL in a Nutshell," walks through the process of using replication for data backups. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/16/MySQLian.html ***Ajax on Rails XMLHttpRequest and Ruby on Rails are two hot topics in web development. As you ought to expect by now, they work really well together. Curt Hibbs explains the minimal Ajax you need to know and the minimal Ruby you need to write to Ajax-ify your Rails applications. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/09/rails_ajax.html ***Top Ten Data Crunching Tips and Tricks Every day, programmers perform unglamorous but necessary data crunching: recycling legacy data, checking configuration files, yanking data out of web server logs, and more. Knowing how to crunch data with the least amount of effort can make the difference between meeting a deadline and making another pot of coffee. Greg Wilson, author of Pragmatic's "Data Crunching," offers ten tips for crunch time. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/09/datacrunching.html ***What's New In PHP 5.1 Explore the new features and changes to the popular open-source web development technology. http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=272086 --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***An Introduction to Tiger Terminal, Part 2 In this second tutorial on Tiger Terminal by MacinTech UG member Mary Norbury-Glaser, you'll learn how to use the terminal app to look at external volumes, then enable ssh to access files, scp to securely copy them remotely, sftp for secure ftp, and finally how to use rsync to synchronize files between two computers. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/06/14/terminal2.html ***Ten PowerPoint 2004 Tips to Beat Tight Deadlines PowerPoint 2004 lets you turn text, graphics, sounds, and movies into dazzling presentations that get your message across in high style. But what if you're on a short deadline? Franklin Tessler, author of "Office 2004 for Mac: The Missing Manual," shows you ten ways to use PowerPoint to put together slideshows in no time. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/06/10/office04forMac.html ***It's True! Jobs Switches to Intel: A Review of the WWDC 05 Keynote Don't get too comfortable after making the transition to Mac OS X. Steve Jobs decides to keep things interesting by announcing during his WWDC 05 keynote that Apple will switch to Intel processors. Here's what he said and how he plans to make it happen. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/06/07/wwdc.html --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Using Tabbed Browsing in Internet Explorer 6 You don't need to wait for Internet Explorer 7 for tabbed browsing--with the latest MSN Toolbar, you can use it in IE 6. Wei-Meng Lee shows you how to use it. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/06/14/ie_tabs.html ***Using Microsoft's Malicious Software Removal Tool The Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool can rid your PC of malware, even if you're already protected by antivirus software. Mitch Tulloch shows you the ins and outs of how to use it. Mitch is the author of "Windows Server Hacks." http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/06/01/malware_removal.html ***Porting a Project from Visual Studio .NET to Mono Three years ago, when .NET was still in pre-release status, Kevin Farnham developed a C# application to automatically generate stock market web pages. Recently, he ported the project to Mono and Debian Linux. Follow along to see how the port went. http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/06/13/vs2mono.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***How to Talk About Jini, J2EE, and Web Services at a Cocktail Party Heard about distributed technologies for Java, but not sure what they are or why they're important? Kathy Sierra and Bert Bates, authors of "Head First Java, 2nd Edition," present this cocktail-party overview. Hold your own in conversation with Java geeks. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/08/27/cocktails.html ***Exploring Laszlo Classes, Attributes, and Events Laszlo offers an interesting option for rich client-side GUIs--XML markup of widgets and their event handling, which is then converted into a Flash executable that is run with the Flash plugin in the user's browser. Satya Komatineni introduces Laszlo and shows how to get started writing web applications with it. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/06/15/laszlo.html --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Adam Williams: Massive Guitars, Micro Computers The former Powerman 5000 guitarist reveals how to make huge guitar sounds on a home computer--without waking the neighbors--then shares loads of MP3 examples. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/06/15/williams.html ***Bring Your MIDI Music to Life Jim Aikin shares numerous tips on getting the best musical expression out of them--both through playing technique and crafty computer editing. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/06/08/controller2.html --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***MAKE's Rebellious Credo: Void the Warranty! "New York Times" columnist Lawrence Downes recently touted the virtues of O'Reilly's new MAKE magazine. Downes salutes MAKE's renegade DIY spirit, noting, "In this world, to tinker--to open the case, to fiddle with wires, and see what happens--is to rebel." Are you ready to rebel? (Free registration required) http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/opinion/12sun3.html? ***MAKE: Blog Phillip Torrone kicks the tires on the iPod photo connector. The iPod photo connector is a neat little accessory ($29) that you plug in to your iPod photo and to your supported camera; it can transfer all the photos off your camera and to the iPod, giving you 40/60 gigs of storage. The connector charges the shuffle and you can make a super-cheap DIY version of the Belkin media reader, too. http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/06/ipod_photo_conn.html ***For more information on MAKE, go to: http://www.makezine.com/ ================================================ >From Your Peers =============================================== ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups around the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time-- Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ ----- End forwarded message ----- From schwern at pobox.com Tue Jun 21 17:19:41 2005 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:19:41 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: References: <20050618200946.GA17348@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: <20050622001941.GA24085@windhund.schwern.org> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 04:43:04PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote: > I am having a problem trying to make this work with Test::More. Is there > some IO redirection happening there? I have included an example below. > > BTW, should I call you 'Michal' or 'Schwern'? Either one. Though be sure to use proper spelling when you speak. Also keep in mind that the way Test::Inline's tying code works is a little odd. It has to populate the $_STDOUT_ and $_STDERR_ globals. Its a bit simpler without that need, as in this code: http://search.cpan.org/src/MSCHWERN/Test-Simple-0.60/t/lib/TieOut.pm Anyhow, the redirect code looks fine but you probably have a hidden syntax error. > use vars qw($_MYSTDOUT_); > $_MYSTDOUT_ = "bar\n"; > > my $codestring1 = "print qw{foo\n};\n"; qw{} does not mean what you think it means. I think you mean qq{}. > my $result = eval $codestring1; > $result = eval $codestring2; > $result = eval $codestring3; I'll betcha if you check $@ after each of those evals you'll find your error. -- Michael G Schwern schwern at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal. -- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett From krisb at ring.org Tue Jun 21 19:52:24 2005 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing In-Reply-To: <20050622001941.GA24085@windhund.schwern.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > BTW, should I call you 'Michal' or 'Schwern'? > > Either one. Though be sure to use proper spelling when you speak. Thanks. I guess I my spell check crutch. > qw{} does not mean what you think it means. I think you mean qq{}. > > I'll betcha if you check $@ after each of those evals you'll find your > error. I'll check the errors. -Kris