From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Dec  2 13:21:00 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:21:00 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, December 2
Message-ID: <20051202212100.GC6263@joshheumann.com>

If you ordered a book from last month (Gabrielle and benh), it is on the
way.

Here's the list of new books, for those of you who don't like to scroll:

-Programming MapPoint in .NET
-Monad
-DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish 
-Makers
-Wireless Hacks, Second Edition
-Quicken 2006 for Starters: The Missing Manual
-Time Management for System Administrators
-Java Enterprise in a Nutshell, Third Edition
-Designing Interfaces
-Photoshop Elements 4 One-on-One
-Applied Software Project Management
-Practical Perforce
-Understanding the Linux Kernel, Third Edition
-Wicked Cool Java
-Linux Multimedia Hacks

----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com> -----

================================================================
O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
December 2, 2005
================================================================
-Slashdot Reviewers Wanted for New Book "Makers"
-Promotional Material Available
-Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups

----------------------------------------------------------------
Book Info
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Review Books are Available 
Copies of our books are available for your members to review--
send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on 
your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. 
Allow at least four weeks for shipping. 


***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews
Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review.
For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to:
<http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>


***Discount Information
Don't forget to remind your members about the 30% discount on 
O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, 
SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG.


***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available
Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in 
touch with our sales department.

----------------------------------------------------------------
General News or Inquiries
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Slashdot Reviewers Wanted for New Book "Makers"
Let me know if you are interested.
Here's the catalog page:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/makers/>


***Put Up an O'Reilly ETel Banner, Get a Free Book
We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their
web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our
O'Reilly Emerging Telephony Conference banner, I will send you the
O'Reilly book of your choice.

ETel Banners:
<http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/etel/>


***Promotional Material Available:
The following items are available for your next meeting. Let me know the
item and the amount you'd like:

-MAKE Magazine Volume 4
-O'Reilly Catalog
-30% UG Discount bookmarks
-ETel Conference brochures <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etel/>


***Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups
Give your members access to content from Safari's thousands of
technology books right on your site and raise money for your
user group at the same time. Use custom designed search boxes, 
show the latest releases, or display your favorite book cover
with our easy to use tools.

For more information and to sign up for the Safari Affiliate 
Program, go to:
<http://ug.oreilly.com/safari_affl.html?CMP=EMC-U1L284871961>

================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
December 2, 2005
================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Programming MapPoint in .NET
-Monad
-DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish 
-Makers
-Wireless Hacks, Second Edition
-Quicken 2006 for Starters: The Missing Manual
-Time Management for System Administrators
-Java Enterprise in a Nutshell, Third Edition
-Designing Interfaces
-Photoshop Elements 4 One-on-One
-Applied Software Project Management
-Practical Perforce
-Understanding the Linux Kernel, Third Edition
-Wicked Cool Java
-Linux Multimedia Hacks
----------------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events
----------------------------------------------------------------
-O'Reilly at LISA 2005, San Diego, CA--December 4-9
-O'Reilly at ApacheCon 2005, San Diego, CA--December 10-14
-O'Reilly at Macworld 2006, San Francisco, CA--January 9-13
----------------------------------------------------------------
Conference News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-ETel Registration Now Open
----------------------------------------------------------------
News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-New O'Reily Newsletter Topics Available
-UFOs (Ubiquitous Findable Objects)
-User Group Members receive a special 50% discount on Learning 
 Lab Courses--Ends December 31
-What Is Prefactoring?
-Avoid Common Pitfalls in Greasemonkey
-PHP Problems
-TCP Tuning and Network Troubleshooting
-Getting Video Out of Your New iPod--for Cheap!
-An Introduction to Tiger Terminal, Part 5
-What Is Spyware?
-Visual Studio Express 2005: Now Available
-Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 1
-Toughen Forms' Security with an Image
-To Pop or Not To Pop
-Ruby the Rival
-Hibernate for Java SE
-What Is Screencasting
-Inside a Luxury Synth: Creating the Linux-Powered Korg OASYS
-MAKE's Mostly Under $100 Gift Guide 2005
-MAKE on "Attack of the Show"
-Introducing the iPod VR
----------------------------------------------------------------
>From Your Peers
----------------------------------------------------------------
Linuxfest Northwest 2006 Looking for Speakers--Bellingham, WA


================================================
Book News
================================================
Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
<http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>

Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, 
Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress
book you purchase directly from O'Reilly.
Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
<http://www.oreilly.com/>

***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at 
least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer 
applies to US delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico.
For more details, go to:
<http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html>

----------------------------------------------------------------
New Releases
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***Programming MapPoint in .NET
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596009062
This comprehensive guide shows you how to use MapPoint's interactive
mapping abilities to improve your company's bottom line. Learn how to
build custom applications for the desktop, web, and mobile devices.
Perfect for anyone who wants to render maps, calculate routes, obtain
real-time location information, and analyze map data.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mappoint/>


Chapter 6, "MapPoint Web Service Find APIs," is available online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mappoint/chapter/index.html>


***Monad
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596100094
This compact guide offers an exciting tour of the opportunities
presented by Monad, the powerful new command shell from Microsoft.
Improve productivity by learning how to automate a wide range of
existing administrative tasks. Featuring a host of real-world examples,
it's the perfect resource for developers, administrators, and power
users alike. 
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/msh/>


***DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish 
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0-596-00848-1
Written in an engaging, accessible style, "DV Filmmaking" provides a solid
foundation of tremendous value to a beginner, while addressing the fine
points of filmmaking with a level of sophistication, detail, and insight
that even the most worldly director or educator can appreciate. The
author draws upon his years of experience teaching at the college and
graduate level, his extensive professional background as a media
producer, and his unmistakable love of cinema to create a text that's
not only easy to learn from, but fun to read.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dvfilmmaking/>

Chapter 13, "Artistically Using Still Images," is available online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dvfilmmaking/chapter/index.html>


***Makers
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101880
Celebrating digital tinkering, hardware hacks, and D.I.Y. of all
stripes, O'Reilly introduces "Makers," a beautiful hardbound book
celebrating the creativity and resourcefulness of the D.I.Y. movement.
Author Bob Parks profiles 100 people and their homebrew projects--people
who make ingenious things in their backyards, basements and garages.
Technologies old and new are used in service of the serious and the
amusing, the practical and the outrageous as "Makers" explores both the
inventions and the characters behind them in living color. 
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/makers/>


***Wireless Hacks, Second Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101449
Wireless technology gives us the flexibility, range and mobility to
live, work, and think differently. It also opens up a vast range of tasty
new hack possibilities, 100 of which are explored in the second edition
of "Wireless Hacks," by Rob Flickenger and Roger Weeks. Completely revised
and updated, "Wireless Hacks" includes over thirty brand-new hacks, major
overhauls of over thirty more, and timely adjustments and touch-ups to
dozens of others introduced in the first edition.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wirelesshks2/>

Sample Hacks "Share Your GPS," "Monitor Wireless Links in Linux with
Wavemon," and "Track Wireless Users" are available online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wirelesshks2/chapter/index.html>


***Quicken 2006 for Starters: The Missing Manual
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101279
Quicken is one of today's most popular and convenient ways to keep track
of personal finances, and "Quicken 2006 for Starters: The Missing Manual"
is the refreshingly funny and sensible guide to using Quicken to
simplify your finances and make the most of your money. It delivers
clear explanations, step-by-step instructions, relevant advice, and
plenty of real-world examples for putting Quicken to the best use.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/quickenfstmm/>

Chapter 2, "Accounts and Categories," is available online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/quickenfstmm/chapter/index.html>


***Time Management for System Administrators
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596007833
This collection of time management tools addresses the very specific
needs of embattled system administrators everywhere. Author Thomas
Limoncelli shows you how to manage interruptions, eliminate timewasters,
prioritize based on customer expectations, automate processes for faster
execution, and much more. It's the first step to a more productive,
happier you.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/timemgmt/>

Chapter 4, "The Cycle System," is available online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/timemgmt/chapter/index.html>


***Java Enterprise in a Nutshell, Third Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101422
Revised and updated for the new 1.4 version of Sun Microsystems Java
Enterprise Edition software, "Java Enterprise in a Nutshell, 3rd 
Edition" is a practical guide for Enterprise Java developers.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/javaentnut3/>

Chapter 18, "JUnit and Cactus," is availavble online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/javaentnut3/index.html>


***Designing Interfaces
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596008031
This convenient resource offers advice on creating user-friendly
interface designs--whether they're delivered on the Web, a CD, or a
"smart" device like a cell phone. Solutions to common UI design
problems are expressed as a collection of patterns--each one containing
concrete examples, recommendations, and warnings. Intended for designers
with basic UI design knowledge.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/designinterfaces/>

Chapter 4, "Organizing the Page: Layout of Page Elements" is available
online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/designinterfaces/chapter/index.html>


***Photoshop Elements 4 One-on-One
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596100981
Revised to cover all the new features of Photoshop Elements 4, this
full-color book / high-definition video DVD package gives new users the
accessible guidance they need to master this powerful but complex
digital imaging program from the ground up, while still providing a
wealth of tips, shortcuts, and secrets that even the most experienced
Photoshop users won't know.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobex/>


***Applied Software Project Management
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596009488
Whether you're starting a software project from scratch, or fixing an
ailing one, this handy guide is your ticket to success. Written by a
group of seasoned project managers, "Applied Software Project Management"
provides essential project management tools, techniques, and
practices-all designed to eliminate the frustrating cycle of releases
and patches. Ideal for anyone on a project team.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/appliedprojectmgmt/>

Chapter 3, "Estimation," is available online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/appliedprojectmgmt/chapter/index.html>


***Practical Perforce
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101856
Authored by Perforce's own VP of product technology, "Practical
Perforce" is the ideal complement to the existing product manual. The
book is not only a helpful introduction to Perforce, it's an
enlightening resource for those already familar with this versatile SCM
product. Whether you're a programmer, product manager, or build
engineer, you stand to benefit from the many insider tips and ideas
presented in this convenient guide.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/practicalperforce/>

Chapter 1, "Files in The Depot," and  Chapter 7, "How Software Evolves,"
are available online:
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/practicalperforce/>


***Understanding the Linux Kernel, Third Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596005652
This new edition covers Version 2.6 of the Linux kernel, which has seen
significant changes to nearly every kernel subsystem, particularly in
the areas of memory management and block devices. "Understanding the
Linux Kernel" provides a guided tour of the code that forms the core of
all Linux operating systems. Beyond the functioning of the code, the
book explains the theoretical underpinnings behind Linux, and many
other operating systems.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/understandlk/>


***Wicked Cool Java
Publisher: No Starch Press
ISBN: 1593270615
Wicked Cool Java contains 101 fun, interesting, and useful ways to get
more out of Java. This isn't intended as a Java tutorial--it's targeted
at developers and system architects who have some basic Java knowledge
but may not be familiar with the wide range of libraries available. Full
of example code and ideas for combining them in useful projects, this
book is perfect for hobbyists, while professionals will find tips and
open-source projects to enhance their code and make their jobs easier.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270615/index.html>


***Linux Multimedia Hacks
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596100760
This Hacks book gives you the technical chops to enjoy the considerable
multimedia options available on the Linux platform. Learn step-by-step
how to do cool things with images, audio, and video. Included are tips
and tricks for connecting to iPods, creating MP3s and Oggs, watching and
making DVDs, turning your Linux box into a Tivo ala MythTV, and much
more. 
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxmmhks/>


================================================
Upcoming Events
================================================
***For more events, please see:
http://events.oreilly.com/

***O'Reilly at LISA 2005, San Diego, CA--December 4-9
Authors Eric Allman ("sendmail Desktop Reference" and "sendmail"), David
N. Blank-Edelman ("Perl for System Administration"), Gerald Carter
("LDAP System Administration"), Tom Christiansen ("Perl Cookbook," and
"Programming Perl"), AEleen Frisch ("Essential System Administration,
3rd Edition" and "Essential Windows NT System Administration"), Tom
Limoncelli ("Time Management for System Administrators"), and W. Curtis
Preston ("Using SANs and NAS" and "Unix Backup & Recovery") lead
sessions at this sys admin confab. And don't miss the special evening
with MAKE Magazine on Monday night!
<http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa05/lisa05.html>


***O'Reilly at ApacheCon 2005, San Diego, CA--December 10-14
Lots of O'Reilly authors are on this year's speaker roster: Rich Bowen
and Ken Coar ("Apache Cookbook"), Brian Fitzpatrick ("Version Control
with Subversion"), Rasmus Lerdorf ("Programming PHP" and "PHP Pocket
Reference"), and Adam Trachtenberg ("Upgrading to PHP 5" and "PHP
Cookbook").	
<http://apachecon.com/2005/US/index.html/e=MjAwNS9VUw>


***O'Reilly at Macworld 2006, San Francisco, CA--January 9-13
Come to our booth to see our handsome and useful selection of
Mac-related titles. Be sure to tune in to Macworld Live! hosted by
author David Pogue ("Missing Manual Series"); David's guests include
Nitrozac and Snaggy, authors of "The Best of the Joy of Tech." David
will also be presenting a session on Tiger Secrets at Macworld.
<http://www.macworldexpo.com/live/20/events/20BOS05A/SN287250#david>

================================================
Conference News
================================================
***ETel Registration Now Open
Emerging telephony networks enable a new generation of powerful
communication applications, which threaten established business
models--but more importantly, open up new opportunities and new markets.
O'Reilly's Emerging Telephony Conference, January 24-26 in San
Francisco, aims to articulate this revolution, provide a framework, and
spark creative discussions among enterprise managers, developers,
hackers, and sponsors interested in telephony. Join us as we explore
this exciting new territory and investigate its implications.
<http://conferences.oreilly.com/etel/>

Receive 20% off the registration price when you use our special code
Email marsee at oreilly.com for details.

To register for the conference, go to:
<http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/etel2006/create/ord_etel06>


================================================
News From O'Reilly & Beyond
================================================
---------------------
General News
---------------------
***New O'Reily Newsletters Topics Available-
Now you can subscibe to "Digital Photography--Photoshop" in Product
Annoucements, "Head First Series" Newsletters, or find out more about
our new conferences.

You can update your newsletter subscriptions here:
<http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/nl/home>


***UFOs (Ubiquitous Findable Objects) 
The emergence of ubiquitous findable objects (UFOs) enables us to tag
and track products, possessions, pets, and people as they wander through
space and time. In this fascinating read, bestselling author Peter
Morville illustrates the power of the future presence of UFOs with real
examples, such as Plazes, Meetro, Dodgeball, GPS, RFID, flocking
patterns, anomaly detection, and more. Peter is the author of "Ambient
Findability."
<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/11/17/ubiquitous-findable-objects.html>


***User Group Members receive a special 50% discount on Learning 
Lab Courses--Ends December 31
As an O'Reilly User Group member, you save on all the courses in the
following University of Illinois Certificate Series:
-Linux/Unix System Administration 
-Web Programming
-Open Source Programming
-.NET Programming
-Client-Side

This offer ends December 31st, 2005.  To redeem, use Promotion Code
"ORALL1" to save 50%. Each course comes with a free O'Reilly book and a
7-day money-back guarantee. Register online:
<http://learninglab.oreilly.com/>


***What Is Prefactoring?
You've probably heard of Refactoring (the process of restructuring code
without changing its external behavior), but what is Prefactoring? Ken
Pugh provides the answer, then covers some of the guidelines to
prefactoring in the areas of Extreme Abstraction, Extreme Separation,
and Extreme Readability. Ken is the author of "Prefactoring."
<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/11/15/what-is-prefactoring.html>


***Avoid Common Pitfalls in Greasemonkey 
Mark Pilgrim walks through a major security concern that prompted the
architectural changes in Greasemonkey 0.5, and then provides solutions
to ten common pitfalls to avoid when writing Greasemonkey scripts. The
hacks he describes, as well as the underlying history of the breach in
Greasemonkey 0.3's security, provide a useful lesson on designing secure
user scripts. Mark is the author of "Greasemonkey Hacks."
<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/11/01/avoid-common-greasemonkey-pitfalls.html>

---------------------
Open Source
---------------------
***PHP Problems 
Noel Davis looks at problems in PHP, Emacs, ftpd-ssl, Lynx, Roaring
Penguin pppoe, OpenVPN, RAR, Fedora Core X-Chat, HP-UX xterm, libungif4,
and GpsDrive.
<http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2005/11/18/security-alerts.html>


***TCP Tuning and Network Troubleshooting 
Information doesn't travel across networks in one big chunk--it goes in
little packets wrapped in packets wrapped in packets. Sure, you know
that, but did you know that a bit of measuring and a bit of tweaking can
improve your networking performance by two orders of magnitude?
<http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/11/17/tcp_tuning.html>

---------------------
Mac
---------------------
***Getting Video out of Your New iPod--for Cheap! 
Yes, you can spend extra dollars for Apple's sleek white video cable for
TV connectivity, or you can hack your own together for cheap.
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/11/18/video-ipod.html>


***An Introduction to Tiger Terminal, Part 5 
In Part 5, Mary Norbury-Glaser looks at how Tiger Mac OS X runs
regularly scheduled commands and scripts to execute recurring jobs, like
system maintenance and backups. She compares the "old" way, using the
Unix tool called cron (for chronological), with the new Tiger method of
using the launched daemon.
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/11/15/terminal5.html>

---------------------
Windows/.NET
---------------------
***What Is Spyware?
As business use of the internet has grown up, so has business abuse.
>From this incubator emerged spyware--the grownup cousin to viruses and
worms, whose intent is not simply to have fun at someone else's expense
but to make money at someone else's expense. Anton Chuvakin looks at
what spyware is, how it works, and what you can do to keep your systems
free of spyware infection.
<http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/11/22/what-is-spyware.html>


***Visual Studio Express 2005: Now Available
Microsoft's Visual Studio Express software is now available as a free
download...Kevin Yank tells you why you should
grab a copy to develop your ASP.NET 2.0 web sites.
<http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/11/07/visual-studio-2005-express-editions-are-free-downloads/> 


***Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 1 
Watch over Jesse Liberty's virtual shoulder as he documents his creation
of a real-world application from scratch. In real time--that is, as he
develops it.
<http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/11/14/creating-an-application-from-scratch-part1.html>

---------------------
Web
---------------------
***Toughen Forms' Security with an Image
Keep your web site and server secure from "brute force attacks" by
requiring visitors to type in a code embedded into an image. 
<http://www.sitepoint.com/article/toughen-forms-security-image>


***To Pop or Not To Pop
If you run or own a content web site, should you be using pop-ups to
monetize your traffic? Chris Beasley takes a look at the pros and cons
of pop-up ad networks.
<http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/11/08/to-pop-or-not-to-pop/>

---------------------
Java
---------------------
***Ruby the Rival 
Bruce Tate's Beyond Java picks Ruby as the front-runner among languages
that could succeed Java among enterprise developers. But what's so great
about Ruby--and frankly, what's wrong with Java? We asked some top Java
bloggers, authors, and developers what they think of Ruby's challenge.
<http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/11/16/ruby-the-rival.html>


***Hibernate for Java SE 
For many, Hibernate goes hand in hand with Java EE as part of their
enterprise development strategy. But what if you need access to your
data access objects outside of the EE container? Jason Lee offers some
strategy for getting and using a Hibernate session from Java SE code.
<http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/11/16/hibernate-for-java-se.html>

---------------------
Digital Media
---------------------
***What Is Screencasting
Whether it's for a tutorial, a how-to, or a software review, if you have
a product you'd like to explain to other users, screencasting???the art of
screen recording with audio narration???can be both easier and more
effective than written descriptions accompanied by static screen shots.
Jon Udell walks you through how to make, edit, and deliver compelling
screencasts.
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/11/16/what-is-screencasting.html>


***Inside a Luxury Synth: Creating the Linux-Powered Korg OASYS
Defying the trend toward ever-cheaper plastic gear and soulless soft
synths, this super-keyboard is designed to rock the world for years to
come. Create Digital Music's Peter Kirn goes behind the scenes at Korg
USA to learn how the designers finally built the dream instrument they'd
been planning for 15 years.
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/11/09/inside-the-korg-oasys.html>

---------------------
MAKE
---------------------
***MAKE's Mostly Under $100 Gift Guide 2005
MAKE proudly presents a gift guide for the holiday season with listings
you certainly won't find anywhere else. MAKE staffers and pals sent in
their favorite maker-friendly gift ideas for mostly under $100, as well
as Editor Phillip Torrone's personal picks...happy holidays! May all of 
your warranties be voided!
<http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/12/makes_mostly_under_100_gift_gu.html>


***MAKE on "Attack of the Show"
MAKE Editor Phil Torrone was on G4's "Attack of the Show" sharing the
PEZ MP3 player, the "Fly" pen computer, and homemade high-speed flash
photography. Here's a QuickTime of the segment:
<http://downloads.oreilly.com/make/g402.mov>


***Introducing the iPod VR
MAKE wanted to see if the new iPod video would foster a new market for
virtual reality/LCD goggles. Here are the photos of the iPod video,
homemade battery extender, travel case, and LCD goggles:
<http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/11/introducingthe_ipod_vr.html>


***Give the Gift of MAKE Magazine--Special Offer for UG Members
Give the geek on your list a truly unique gift this holiday season--
their very own subscription to MAKE magazine. MAKE is the first magazine
devoted to digital projects, hardware hacks, and DIY inspiration. Each
issue brings the do-it-yourself mindset to all the technology in 
your life. 

You have a choice:

Give a gift for $5 off the regular gift subscription rate--$29.95 (US),
$34.95 (Canada), $44.95 (all other countries):
<https://www.pubservice.com/mk/SubGiftSplash.aspx?PC=MK&PK=U5OUGA>

Or place your gift order at the regular price $34.95 (US), $39.95
(Canada),
$49.95 (all other countries)--and get a MAKE T-shirt free.
<https://www.pubservice.com/mk/SubGiftSplash.aspx?PC=MK&PK=U5OUGB>

***Please note gift postcards and MAKE vol 4 will begin mailing on
12/9/05, orders received after 12/9/05 and non-US orders may not arrive
in time for the holiday season. Your recipient(s) will receive the
opportunity to add digital access to their subscription. All MAKE
T-shirts will ship to your billing address. To order multiple orders for
multiple countries, please contact customer service at 1-866-289-8847
(US & Canada),  1-818-487-2037 (all other countries) between the hours
of 5am and 5pm Pacific time or Email: MAKE at espcomp.com

================================================
>From Your Peers
================================================
***Linuxfest Northwest 2006 Looking for Speakers--Bellingham, WA 
Linuxfest Northwest 2006 (April 29, 2006), is looking for presentations
on all aspects of Linux and open source technology. They welcome both
introductory lectures and advanced discussions on software development,
database, server application, networking, and system administration
topics. They also invite those using Linux and open source applications
to give talks about their experiences and lessons learned. Lecture slots
are 90-minute with presenters speaking for 45 to 60 minutes followed by 
a question and answering period.
For details see:
<http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/present.html>


***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user
groups around the globe are up to:
<http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi>

Until next time--

Marsee Henon


================================================================
O'Reilly 
1005 Gravenstein Highway North  
Sebastopol, CA   95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
================================================================

----- End forwarded message -----

From randall at sonofhans.net  Mon Dec  5 16:49:08 2005
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:49:08 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] implicit hashref return gone awry
Message-ID: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>

this isn't working the way i expect, which means i have an  
opportunity for education :)

     sub four {
         {
             %{ one() },
             label    => 'Bar',
         };
     }

i expected it to return a hashref, but it returns a list.  this  
appears to be related to the de-referencing of &one, since other  
similar situations do return a hashref.  full code below illustrates  
what i mean.

tia,

r


#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;

use Data::Dumper;

sub one {
     {
         label    => 'Foo',
         data    => [ qw/ baz /],
     };
}

sub two {
     return {
         %{ one() },
         label    => 'Bar',
     };
}

sub three {
     {
         data    => 'test',
         label   => 'Bar',
     };
}

sub four {
     {
         %{ one() },
         label    => 'Bar',
     };
}


print Dumper[ 'ONE',    ref one(),      one() ];
print Dumper[ 'TWO',    ref two(),      two() ];
print Dumper[ 'THREE',  ref three(),    three() ];
print Dumper[ 'FOUR',   ref four(),     four() ];

__DATA__

output:
$VAR1 = [
           'ONE',
           'HASH',
           {
             'data' => [
                         'baz'
                       ],
             'label' => 'Foo'
           }
         ];
$VAR1 = [
           'TWO',
           'HASH',
           {
             'label' => 'Bar',
             'data' => [
                         'baz'
                       ]
           }
         ];
$VAR1 = [
           'THREE',
           'HASH',
           {
             'label' => 'Bar',
             'data' => 'test'
           }
         ];
$VAR1 = [
           'FOUR',
           '',
           'data',
           [
             'baz'
           ],
           'label',
           'Foo',
           'label',
           'Bar'
         ];


From robb at empire2.com  Mon Dec  5 16:57:31 2005
From: robb at empire2.com (Rob Bloodgood)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:57:31 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] implicit hashref return gone awry
In-Reply-To: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
References: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <4394E1FB.7060809@empire2.com>

Randall Hansen wrote:
> this isn't working the way i expect, which means i have an  
> opportunity for education :)
> 
>      sub four {
>          {
>              %{ one() },
>              label    => 'Bar',
>          };
>      }
> 
> i expected it to return a hashref, but it returns a list.  this  
> appears to be related to the de-referencing of &one, since other  
> similar situations do return a hashref.  full code below illustrates  
> what i mean.


but it looks like a "regular" block, to perl.

make it:

      sub four {
          return {
              %{ one() },
              label    => 'Bar',
          };
      }


and now it looks like you're returning hashref, not processing a block
and falling off the end with a list value.

L8r,
Rob

From tex at off.org  Mon Dec  5 16:57:45 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:57:45 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] implicit hashref return gone awry
In-Reply-To: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
References: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <20051206005745.GR28489@gblx.net>

On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 04:49:08PM -0800, Randall Hansen wrote:
> this isn't working the way i expect, which means i have an  
> opportunity for education :)
> 
>      sub four {
>          {
>              %{ one() },
>              label    => 'Bar',
>          };
>      }
> 
> i expected it to return a hashref, but it returns a list.  this  
> appears to be related to the de-referencing of &one, since other  
> similar situations do return a hashref.  full code below illustrates  
> what i mean.
> 

	It looks to me like perl is treating the {} inside sub four{} as
a code block instead of a hashref. I forget what the standard mechanism is
for forcing one vs. the other behavior. Probably something like enclosing
it in parens ({ stuff }).

	That's my guess :-)

	Austin

From david at kineticode.com  Mon Dec  5 16:58:31 2005
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:58:31 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] implicit hashref return gone awry
In-Reply-To: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
References: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <61598C25-1145-4C65-B763-5645932318A6@kineticode.com>

On Dec 5, 2005, at 4:49 PM, Randall Hansen wrote:

> this isn't working the way i expect, which means i have an
> opportunity for education :)
>
>      sub four {
>          {
>              %{ one() },
>              label    => 'Bar',
>          };
>      }
>
> i expected it to return a hashref, but it returns a list.  this
> appears to be related to the de-referencing of &one, since other
> similar situations do return a hashref.  full code below illustrates
> what i mean.

No, I think it's just because it's not a hash ref you have there, but  
a block. Just add a "return" like in three() and you're good to go.

Best,

David

From randall at sonofhans.net  Mon Dec  5 17:13:57 2005
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:13:57 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] implicit hashref return gone awry
In-Reply-To: <4394E1FB.7060809@empire2.com>
References: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
	<4394E1FB.7060809@empire2.com>
Message-ID: <403F223A-D006-4D1C-B4C4-0399F7D282CD@sonofhans.net>

On Dec 5, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Rob Bloodgood wrote:

> but it looks like a "regular" block, to perl.

thanks to David and Rob for the same answer at the same time.  my  
real question, though, is what makes perl think that &four is  
returning a block and &three a hashref?

r


From david at kineticode.com  Mon Dec  5 17:19:40 2005
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:19:40 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] implicit hashref return gone awry
In-Reply-To: <403F223A-D006-4D1C-B4C4-0399F7D282CD@sonofhans.net>
References: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
	<4394E1FB.7060809@empire2.com>
	<403F223A-D006-4D1C-B4C4-0399F7D282CD@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <9B4B4C8C-3483-4173-97AD-F0AB3311D08A@kineticode.com>

On Dec 5, 2005, at 5:13 PM, Randall Hansen wrote:

> thanks to David and Rob for the same answer at the same time.  my
> real question, though, is what makes perl think that &four is
> returning a block and &three a hashref?

The "return" disambiguates it. A bare block is always a block unless  
it's assigned to something. The return assigns it to a variable set  
up by the caller. For all practical purposes, a bare block is the  
same as do {}.

HTH,

David


From randall at sonofhans.net  Mon Dec  5 17:23:59 2005
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:23:59 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] implicit hashref return gone awry
In-Reply-To: <9B4B4C8C-3483-4173-97AD-F0AB3311D08A@kineticode.com>
References: <C7E67D37-147F-464A-A406-0626522CDDDD@sonofhans.net>
	<4394E1FB.7060809@empire2.com>
	<403F223A-D006-4D1C-B4C4-0399F7D282CD@sonofhans.net>
	<9B4B4C8C-3483-4173-97AD-F0AB3311D08A@kineticode.com>
Message-ID: <8940F9E6-A83A-4A1C-AA30-57783BD30C8B@sonofhans.net>

On Dec 5, 2005, at 5:19 PM, David Wheeler wrote:

> The "return" disambiguates it. A bare block is always a block  
> unless it's assigned to something. The return assigns it to a  
> variable set up by the caller. For all practical purposes, a bare  
> block is the same as do {}.

ok, i think that's what i was missing.  i was incorrectly thinking of  
the bare block evaluating as a hashref by default.  in fact, in  
&three perl is being smart, and in &four it's doing exactly what i  
tell it to.

thanks,

r


From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  6 07:53:47 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 07:53:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl Foundation Blog
Message-ID: <20051206155347.86875.qmail@web60820.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

A lot of folks routinely want to know what the heck the Perl Foundation
is and what it does.

  http://news.perlfoundation.org/

That also has RSS and ATOM feeds, so you can subscribe to it if you
don't want to keep bouncing over to the site.

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Thu Dec  8 07:18:14 2005
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:18:14 +0200
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Help with Test::Run (a Test::Harness replacement)
Message-ID: <200512081718.14807.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

Hi all!

I did not introduce myself to the mailing list (depite having made some posts) 
so allow me to introduce myself briefly. My name is Shlomi Fish and I am a 
user, developer and advocate of Linux, Perl, and other Open Source 
technologies. You can learn more about my open source contributions here:

http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/

And about myself in general here:

http://www.shlomifish.org/

You can also refer to my bio ( http://www.shlomifish.org/personal.html ) or to 
an introduction I made to the MIT Writers mailing list:

http://www.shlomifish.org/me/intros/writers/

Now to the rest of my post. It is about Perl. First of all, please consult:

http://use.perl.org/~Shlomi Fish/journal/27887

(and previously http://use.perl.org/~Shlomi Fish/journal/27467 )

For some of my reflections on my work on Test::Run, which is my fork of 
Test::Harness.

Especially of interest is my call for help at the bottom:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Finally, how you can help: first of all you can submit patches to the 
documentation to update it to the newer code. Or write new documentation for 
all them method extractions. Also, if you feel like refactoring one of the 
places which is still quite hairy - go for it. You can find the code in the 
Subversion repository. A few patches like that and you'll become a commiter. 

A second thing you can do is suggest ways in which you'd like to see Test::Run 
(or Test::Harness) enhanced or customised. You can create drivers now, but 
they may become broken even in the not-so-far future, as I didn't settle on 
the API and the Subclassing API yet. 

And last, but not least, if you find my effort noteworthy, please consider 
donating. The more money I receive by donations, the more financially-worthy 
it would be for me to work on Test-Run. If you make a donation drop me a note 
saying why you did it, so I can try to invest some more time on that 
particular cause.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(It would be a good idea to read the earlier parts of the posts first, 
though.)

Feel free to comment here or using the use.perl.org commenting system.

Thanks in advance,

	Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Fri Dec  9 02:31:56 2005
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:31:56 +0200
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Help with Test::Run (a Test::Harness replacement)
In-Reply-To: <200512081718.14807.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
References: <200512081718.14807.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
Message-ID: <200512091231.57568.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

[Note: due to the fact the URLs on the previous post contained whitespace, 
(Konqueror Konsidered Harmful) I'm making a better post, with some of the 
deficincies of the previous post eliminated.]

First of all, please consult:

http://use.perl.org/~Shlomi%20Fish/journal/27887

(and previously http://use.perl.org/~Shlomi%20Fish/journal/27467 )

For some of my reflections on my work on Test::Run, which is my fork of 
Test::Harness.

Especially of interest is my call for help at the bottom:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Finally, how you can help: first of all you can submit patches to the 
documentation to update it to the newer code. Or write new documentation for 
all them method extractions. Also, if you feel like refactoring one of the 
places which is still quite hairy - go for it. You can find the code in the 
Subversion repository. A few patches like that and you'll become a commiter. 

A second thing you can do is suggest ways in which you'd like to see Test::Run 
(or Test::Harness) enhanced or customised. You can create drivers now, but 
they may become broken even in the not-so-far future, as I didn't settle on 
the API and the Subclassing API yet. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(It would be a good idea to read the earlier parts of the posts first, 
though.)

Feel free to comment here or using the use.perl.org commenting system.

Thanks in advance,

        Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

From dpool at hevanet.com  Fri Dec  9 08:43:08 2005
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:43:08 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Transit Surfer
Message-ID: <1134146588.4698.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Chris Smith, a local Perl developer, got access to the TriMet API and
built a tool for using a web enabled cell phone to get up to the minute
arrival times for buses and the Max. Says he plans to open source the
code base once it's out of Beta.

http://www.news4neighbors.net/article.pl?sid=05/12/09/1633234

Optimized and without graphics, the thing does look better than TriMet's
own effort at this.

David


From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Dec  9 10:45:00 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 09 Dec 2005 10:45:00 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Transit Surfer
In-Reply-To: <1134146588.4698.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1134146588.4698.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <86mzja85zn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "David" == David Pool <dpool at hevanet.com> writes:

David> Chris Smith, a local Perl developer, got access to the TriMet API and
David> built a tool for using a web enabled cell phone to get up to the minute
David> arrival times for buses and the Max. Says he plans to open source the
David> code base once it's out of Beta.

David> http://www.news4neighbors.net/article.pl?sid=05/12/09/1633234

David> Optimized and without graphics, the thing does look better than TriMet's
David> own effort at this.

Well, I don't see what you're seeing then.

All I see is a route that is computed along tri-met lines, but it
doesn't say times or even transfers... just a nice travel path.

So, tri-met's site planner is infinitely better at this point, because
it's paying attention to times and transfers and tells me a lot more.

yes, it's better than the ugly "interactive" map that trimet
has... in fact, I half expected the "map this" links on the trimet
site to go to google now and was disappointed when I couldn't just
drag the map with my mouse.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Dec  9 11:29:15 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:29:15 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Transit Surfer
In-Reply-To: <86mzja85zn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <1134146588.4698.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<86mzja85zn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <20051209192915.GA26291@joshheumann.com>

<quote who='Randal L. Schwartz' when='Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 10:45:00AM -0800'>
> yes, it's better than the ugly "interactive" map that trimet
> has... in fact, I half expected the "map this" links on the trimet
> site to go to google now and was disappointed when I couldn't just
> drag the map with my mouse.

If everyone hasn't seen it, Google has Trimet information on their site.
It's still beta, and isn't always reliable (it doesn't seem to know
about the #15 bus, for example), but it's pretty cool nonetheless.

http://www.google.com/transit

J

From dpool at hevanet.com  Fri Dec  9 11:39:09 2005
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:39:09 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Transit Surfer
In-Reply-To: <86mzja85zn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <1134146588.4698.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<86mzja85zn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <1134157149.4698.34.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 10:45 -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> >>>>> "David" == David Pool <dpool at hevanet.com> writes:
> 
> David> Chris Smith, a local Perl developer, got access to the TriMet API and
> David> built a tool for using a web enabled cell phone to get up to the minute
> David> arrival times for buses and the Max. Says he plans to open source the
> David> code base once it's out of Beta.
> 
> David> http://www.news4neighbors.net/article.pl?sid=05/12/09/1633234
> 
> David> Optimized and without graphics, the thing does look better than TriMet's
> David> own effort at this.
> 
> Well, I don't see what you're seeing then.

Check out this link:

http://beta.portlandtransport.com/cgi-bin/pda.pl?
routeNumber=12&routeNumber=112&direction=1&locationID=5077&go=go

That link will tell me in terse text the next bus to leave from 31st and
Sandy heading downtown. It's not so much a trip planner as an efficient
tracker of the Bus' onboard GPS for my bus and bus stop of interest.


> 
> All I see is a route that is computed along tri-met lines, but it
> doesn't say times or even transfers... just a nice travel path.
> 
> So, tri-met's site planner is infinitely better at this point, because
> it's paying attention to times and transfers and tells me a lot more.
> 
> yes, it's better than the ugly "interactive" map that trimet
> has... in fact, I half expected the "map this" links on the trimet
> site to go to google now and was disappointed when I couldn't just
> drag the map with my mouse.

I believe Chris is atleast tangentially involved in the Google/TriMet
partnership. Even though News4neighbors scooped PortlandTransport.com on
the announcement.

David




From welscha at pdx.edu  Fri Dec  9 11:56:57 2005
From: welscha at pdx.edu (Alex Welsch)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:56:57 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Transit Surfer
In-Reply-To: <20051209192915.GA26291@joshheumann.com>
References: <1134146588.4698.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<86mzja85zn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<20051209192915.GA26291@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <4399E189.7070005@pdx.edu>

Looks like this can evolve into a great service. Congratulations.

While this kind of thing ramps up and cell phone technology disperses, 
another simple solution I have
implemented on websites is to simply link to lines that pass nearby the 
(business) desitination, like so:

http://www.trimet.org/schedule/r019.htm
and also include the trimet trip planner telephone number.
503-238-Ride (503-238-7433).

As a pedestrian/cyclist/transit rider, I have been sensitive to 
incorporating transit info/maps on the websites I have helped build for 
friends/clients

For examples, see the FOOTERs on :
http://drchotocruz-ncfc.com
http://www.conexiones.us


Best wishes,
Alex





Josh Heumann wrote:

><quote who='Randal L. Schwartz' when='Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 10:45:00AM -0800'>
>  
>
>>yes, it's better than the ugly "interactive" map that trimet
>>has... in fact, I half expected the "map this" links on the trimet
>>site to go to google now and was disappointed when I couldn't just
>>drag the map with my mouse.
>>    
>>
>
>If everyone hasn't seen it, Google has Trimet information on their site.
>It's still beta, and isn't always reliable (it doesn't seem to know
>about the #15 bus, for example), but it's pretty cool nonetheless.
>
>http://www.google.com/transit
>
>J
>_______________________________________________
>Pdx-pm-list mailing list
>Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>  
>


From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Dec  9 14:42:52 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:42:52 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] O'Reilly UG Offers Ending Soon for Learning Lab, ETel,
	and MAKE
Message-ID: <20051209224252.GA27327@joshheumann.com>

----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com> -----

Hello
 
I wanted to alert you to three special offers that will be ending over the
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list. Please let me know if you have any questions or need more info. 
 
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--Marsee



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To register for the conference, go to:
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 Lab Courses
As an O'Reilly User Group member, you save on all the courses in the
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================================================================

----- End forwarded message -----

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sat Dec 10 11:56:53 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:56:53 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] subroutine calls CAN be string-interpolated!
Message-ID: <200512101156.53888.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

And you thought they had to be concatenated with that messy 
quote-breaking " . thing($stuff) . " syntax.

  perl -e 'use constant foo => 7, 6; print "foo:  @{[foo]}\n";'

Is this undocumented or just obscure?

  http://use.perl.org/~Eric%20Wilhelm/journal/27926

And even:

  perl -e '@f = (1,2,3);
  sub a {my @thing = @_; return(scalar(@thing));};
  print qq(foo: @{[a(@f)]}\n);'

Wow!  And I thought Ruby's "#{code goes here}" interpolation was 
something I couldn't do in Perl!

--Eric
-- 
If the collapse of the Berlin Wall had taught us anything, it was that
socialism alone was not a sustainable economic model.
--Robert Young
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 10 12:45:22 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 12:45:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] subroutine calls CAN be string-interpolated!
In-Reply-To: <200512101156.53888.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20051210204522.20634.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:

> And you thought they had to be concatenated with that messy 
> quote-breaking " . thing($stuff) . " syntax.
> 
>   perl -e 'use constant foo => 7, 6; print "foo:  @{[foo]}\n";'
> 
> Is this undocumented or just obscure?
> 
>   http://use.perl.org/~Eric%20Wilhelm/journal/27926

I think it's pretty common.  Ugly, but common.  (At least, I've used it
a lot and I've seen it used a lot with my current and previous
employers).

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From ajsavige at yahoo.com.au  Sat Dec 10 15:43:24 2005
From: ajsavige at yahoo.com.au (Andrew Savige)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:43:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] subroutine calls CAN be string-interpolated!
In-Reply-To: <200512101156.53888.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20051210234324.55304.qmail@web36103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> And you thought they had to be concatenated with that messy 
> quote-breaking " . thing($stuff) . " syntax.
> 
>   perl -e 'use constant foo => 7, 6; print "foo:  @{[foo]}\n";'
> 
> Is this undocumented or just obscure?

According to:

 http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/3727

the @{[]} "secret operator" was invented by Randal and/or
Larry in 1994.

BTW, cog dreamed up a (presumably) vulgar name for the @{[]}
operator, as alluded to here:

 http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/3726

I don't know what this name is though.

/-\


Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sat Dec 10 16:56:37 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:56:37 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] subroutine calls CAN be string-interpolated!
In-Reply-To: <20051210234324.55304.qmail@web36103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051210234324.55304.qmail@web36103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512101656.37390.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Andrew Savige
# on Saturday 10 December 2005 03:43 pm:

>> Is this undocumented or just obscure?
>
>According to:
>
>?http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/3727
>
>the @{[]} "secret operator" was invented by Randal and/or
>Larry in 1994.

Heh.  I actually found it documented (as "chicanery") in perlref.  Not 
quite a secret then.

--Eric
-- 
I eat your socks and you pay me.
--The business sense of a very small goat.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Dec 12 11:52:18 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:52:18 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting This Wednesday
Message-ID: <20051212195218.GA15153@joshheumann.com>

December Meeting
Wednesday, December 14th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave

>From the Kwiki:

Any Perlish or geekish lecture, rant, speech, poem, droll witticism, or
(hopefully) constructive criticism that you can fit into N MINUTES
(where N usually equals 5, 8, 10 or 15).

Here's the current lineup:

* Ovid, TPF news
* Ovid Brief description of traits
* EricWilhelm, uber-converter war stories
* EricWilhelm, reloader
* EricWilhelm, PerlTestJuggler
* RandalSchwartz, surprise topic (or maybe something boring, but I want to contribute!)

Add yourself to the lineup on the kwiki:
http://portland.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?PortlandPerlMongers

J

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Dec 12 11:54:47 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:54:47 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Free Apress Companion eBook
Message-ID: <20051212195447.GB15197@joshheumann.com>

----- Forwarded message from Apress Usergroup <janet at Apress.com> -----

You don't need to tote those heavy new .NET 2.0 books between your home and office-Apress is providing FREE access to the eBook versions of these core titles. 

We realize that some of you might still prefer the old-fashioned paper format for browsing through Apress books from the comfort of your home, so Apress has devised the perfect combination: for a limited time, we're offering a FREE companion eBook version if you purchase the corresponding new hard-copy .NET 2.0 book. 

Portable and fully searchable, Apress eBooks are the ideal companions to our traditional printed works. Apress eBooks make a valuable addition to your programming library because you can easily find, copy, and apply code--and then perform examples by quickly toggling between instructions and the application. 

Or think of it like this: you can magnify and backlight your late-night reading with your eBook which, of course, you can't do with a hard-copy book. Even simultaneously tackling a donut, diet soda, and complex code becomes simplified with our hands-free eBooks! 

...

Free companion Apress eBooks are available _only_ to early adopters who purchase the following physical books during their first print run*: 

"Pro ASP.NET 2.0 in C# 2005" by Matthew MacDonald with Mario Szpuszta (1-59059-496-7)

"Pro C# 2005 and the .NET 2.0 Platform, Third Edition" by Andrew Troelsen (1-59059-419-3)

"Pro ADO.NET 2.0" by Sahil Malik (1-59059-512-2)

"Pro SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services" by Rodney Landrum and Walter J. Voytek II (1-59059-498-3)

"Beginning ASP.NET 2.0 in C#: From Novice to Professional" by Matthew MacDonald (1-59059-572-6)

"Beginning SQL Server 2005 for Developers" by Robin Dewson (1-59059-588-2)

"Pro Visual Studio 2005 Team System" by Jeff Levinson and David Nelson (1-59059-460-6)

"Beginning C# Programming: From Novice to Professional" by Gary Cornell and Matthew MacDonald (1-59059-415-0)

"A Programmer's Introduction to C# 2.0, Third Edition" by Eric Gunnerson and Nick Weinholt (1-59059-501-7)

"Pro SQL Server 2005" by Thomas Rizzo et al. (1-59059-477-0)


* In the first print run or six months past publication date, these titles will feature instructions on the back page for how to obtain the free companion eBook.

...

----- End forwarded message -----

From krisb at ring.org  Tue Dec 13 11:18:15 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:18:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131116500.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Hi, I am starting to learn subversion but I would like to start to
use things before I really know what I am doing.  Does anyone know: can I
use local svn access from different machines across file systems like
samba?  Is this risky?

Thanks.

-Kris


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 11:51:33 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:51:33 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131116500.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131116500.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200512131151.33591.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Kris Bosland
# on Tuesday 13 December 2005 11:18 am:

>Hi, I am starting to learn subversion but I would like to start to
>use things before I really know what I am doing. ?Does anyone know:
> can I use local svn access from different machines across file
> systems like samba? ?Is this risky?

You mean svn co file:///mountpoint/repos/path/ ?  I think the recommend 
against this even for NFS.

Maybe you want to svn co svn+ssh://host/mountpoint/repos/path .  There's 
also the svnserve daemon (which will actually get started on-demand if 
you use the ssh protocol.)  If you're on a lame OS like windows, maybe 
easier to setup svnserve than ssh.

Checking out _to_ a Samba mount is a different story.  Maybe that works 
if all of your users are the same.

--Eric
-- 
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it."
--Donald Knuth
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Tue Dec 13 12:07:56 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:07:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <200512131151.33591.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131202020.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


	I guess it is often better to give the real situation instead of
asking vague hypotheticals.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> You mean svn co file:///mountpoint/repos/path/ ?  I think the recommend
> against this even for NFS.
>
> Maybe you want to svn co svn+ssh://host/mountpoint/repos/path .  There's
> also the svnserve daemon (which will actually get started on-demand if
> you use the ssh protocol.)  If you're on a lame OS like windows, maybe
> easier to setup svnserve than ssh.
>
> Checking out _to_ a Samba mount is a different story.  Maybe that works
> if all of your users are the same.

The server I have is windows, yes.  I would like to be able to create a
central repository on a shared disk and access it from the server and my
laptop (also windows), and maybe also from some linux machines.  I want to
be able to ultimately store code in the central repository, but I would
like the ability to make local code changes on my laptop when disconnected
and then sync up with the server later.  I am also not confident that I
have the server long term, I may loose the existing server and get
assigned another, so I don't want to have to go through too many hoops to
set up the service, or at least nothing that I can't make into scripts I
can save on the disk space, which is stable.

-Kris


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 12:36:24 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:36:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131202020.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131202020.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200512131236.24607.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Kris Bosland
# on Tuesday 13 December 2005 12:07 pm:

>I would like to be able to create a
>central repository on a shared disk and access it from the server and
> my laptop (also windows), 

Bad idea.  Maybe something about this in the svnbook.

  http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/

> and maybe also from some linux machines. ?

Serve it from a linux machine via http?  The apache webdav setup is not 
too terribly difficult.

> I  
> want to be able to ultimately store code in the central repository,
> but I would like the ability to make local code changes on my laptop
> when disconnected and then sync up with the server later.

That's svk land.  Subversion will let you work offline, but not commit.  
My proposed "stupid svk tricks" lightning talk got no takers, but given 
the ~40min schedule, maybe there's time for one of these or we could 
just do that as a barroom seminar.

> I am also 
> not confident that I have the server long term, I may loose the
> existing server and get assigned another

Not sure about svk on windows, but I have checked-out from svk's 
underlying svn dirs via ssh to an svk mirror on the laptop.  That's 
pretty low setup overhead, but fairly high usage overhead (and I think 
it voids the warranty too.)  The bdb and/or fsfs databases are pretty 
mobile (and there hasn't been a need for dump/load to switch versions 
since pre-1.0 IIANM), it's the server access that might be tricky to 
move around, but if you have ssh everywhere, then it's cake.

--Eric
-- 
A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized 
guiltily.
--Product of Artificial Intelligence
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 12:36:24 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:36:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131202020.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131202020.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200512131236.24607.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Kris Bosland
# on Tuesday 13 December 2005 12:07 pm:

>I would like to be able to create a
>central repository on a shared disk and access it from the server and
> my laptop (also windows), 

Bad idea.  Maybe something about this in the svnbook.

  http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/

> and maybe also from some linux machines. ?

Serve it from a linux machine via http?  The apache webdav setup is not 
too terribly difficult.

> I  
> want to be able to ultimately store code in the central repository,
> but I would like the ability to make local code changes on my laptop
> when disconnected and then sync up with the server later.

That's svk land.  Subversion will let you work offline, but not commit.  
My proposed "stupid svk tricks" lightning talk got no takers, but given 
the ~40min schedule, maybe there's time for one of these or we could 
just do that as a barroom seminar.

> I am also 
> not confident that I have the server long term, I may loose the
> existing server and get assigned another

Not sure about svk on windows, but I have checked-out from svk's 
underlying svn dirs via ssh to an svk mirror on the laptop.  That's 
pretty low setup overhead, but fairly high usage overhead (and I think 
it voids the warranty too.)  The bdb and/or fsfs databases are pretty 
mobile (and there hasn't been a need for dump/load to switch versions 
since pre-1.0 IIANM), it's the server access that might be tricky to 
move around, but if you have ssh everywhere, then it's cake.

--Eric
-- 
A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized 
guiltily.
--Product of Artificial Intelligence
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Tue Dec 13 12:41:27 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:41:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <200512131236.24607.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131240270.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


Thanks Eric, maybe we can talk about it tomorrow night.

-Kris

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> That's svk land.  Subversion will let you work offline, but not commit.
> My proposed "stupid svk tricks" lightning talk got no takers, but given
> the ~40min schedule, maybe there's time for one of these or we could
> just do that as a barroom seminar.


From wcooley at nakedape.cc  Tue Dec 13 13:31:18 2005
From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:31:18 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <200512131151.33591.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131116500.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<200512131151.33591.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <1134509478.28114.38.camel@willow.odshp.com>

On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 11:51 -0800, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # from Kris Bosland
> # on Tuesday 13 December 2005 11:18 am:
> 
> >Hi, I am starting to learn subversion but I would like to start to
> >use things before I really know what I am doing.  Does anyone know:
> > can I use local svn access from different machines across file
> > systems like samba?  Is this risky?
> 
> You mean svn co file:///mountpoint/repos/path/ ?  I think the recommend 
> against this even for NFS.

Actually, as long as you're using FSFS and not BDB, NFS is fine for
serving the repository or working copy.  I would expect the same would
apply for SMBFS/CIFS.  The problem you'll run into for the WC is that
unless your repository is also on a network FS that is mounted in the
same location on each host, the path to the repo will be wrong.  (Use
'svn info' to see what path it expects.)

http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/svn-book.html#svn-ch-5-sect-2

http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#nfs

Wil
-- 
Wil Cooley <wcooley at nakedape.cc>
Naked Ape Consulting, Ltd
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From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 13:36:24 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:36:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <1134509478.28114.38.camel@willow.odshp.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131116500.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<200512131151.33591.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<1134509478.28114.38.camel@willow.odshp.com>
Message-ID: <200512131336.24508.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Wil Cooley
# on Tuesday 13 December 2005 01:31 pm:

>FSFS and not BDB, NFS is fine for
>serving the repository or working copy. ?I would expect the same would
>apply for SMBFS/CIFS

Nice.  I guess I should have figured that, given that the BDB problems 
stem from lockfiles and the flakiness of those over NFS.  I haven't 
tried any FSFS repos yet.  They implemented it with a different locking 
system or just without needing locks?

--Eric
-- 
But you can never get 3n from n, ever, and if you think you can, please
email me the stock ticker of your company so I can short it.
--Joel Spolsky
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From bryce at osdl.org  Tue Dec 13 13:41:55 2005
From: bryce at osdl.org (Bryce Harrington)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:41:55 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <200512131336.24508.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131116500.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<200512131151.33591.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<1134509478.28114.38.camel@willow.odshp.com>
	<200512131336.24508.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20051213214155.GF19520@osdl.org>

On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 01:36:24PM -0800, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # from Wil Cooley
> # on Tuesday 13 December 2005 01:31 pm:
> 
> >FSFS and not BDB, NFS is fine for
> >serving the repository or working copy. ?I would expect the same would
> >apply for SMBFS/CIFS
> 
> Nice.  I guess I should have figured that, given that the BDB problems 
> stem from lockfiles and the flakiness of those over NFS.  I haven't 
> tried any FSFS repos yet.  They implemented it with a different locking 
> system or just without needing locks?

Cool, hey, could you describe how to recreate this problem?  I'm
involved with the testing of NFSv4 and if this is a fault with the
locking, I'd like to add it to my test process so we can make sure SVN
will work properly with NFSv4.  This sounds like it would make an
interesting test case.

Bryce

From krisb at ring.org  Tue Dec 13 13:40:00 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:40:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <1134509478.28114.38.camel@willow.odshp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131339150.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


	I wonder if I could just make a repository on my laptop, and then
sync up the changes between the laptop and server repositories.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Wil Cooley wrote:

> Actually, as long as you're using FSFS and not BDB, NFS is fine for
> serving the repository or working copy.  I would expect the same would
> apply for SMBFS/CIFS.  The problem you'll run into for the WC is that
> unless your repository is also on a network FS that is mounted in the
> same location on each host, the path to the repo will be wrong.  (Use
> 'svn info' to see what path it expects.)
>
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/svn-book.html#svn-ch-5-sect-2
>
> http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#nfs
>
> Wil
> --
> Wil Cooley <wcooley at nakedape.cc>
> Naked Ape Consulting, Ltd
>


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 14:33:39 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:33:39 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131339150.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131339150.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200512131433.39439.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Kris Bosland
# on Tuesday 13 December 2005 01:40 pm:

>I wonder if I could just make a repository on my laptop, and then
>sync up the changes between the laptop and server repositories.

Yes!  And then write ~10k lines of Perl to manage it (don't document it, 
use a wiki) and release it as svkb (for Kris Bosland.)

Seriously, you probably want to use svk for that.  It works great.  
There is a perl module for mirroring svn over ssh, but I won't tell you 
what it's called until you give svk a shot.

--Eric
-- 
Peer's Law: The solution to the problem changes the problem.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Tue Dec 13 14:37:07 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:37:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <200512131433.39439.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131436380.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


	How windows-friendly is svk?

-Kris

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> # from Kris Bosland
> # on Tuesday 13 December 2005 01:40 pm:
>
> >I wonder if I could just make a repository on my laptop, and then
> >sync up the changes between the laptop and server repositories.
>
> Yes!  And then write ~10k lines of Perl to manage it (don't document it,
> use a wiki) and release it as svkb (for Kris Bosland.)
>
> Seriously, you probably want to use svk for that.  It works great.
> There is a perl module for mirroring svn over ssh, but I won't tell you
> what it's called until you give svk a shot.
>
> --Eric
> --
> Peer's Law: The solution to the problem changes the problem.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
> !DSPAM:439f4b34322921674447749!
>
>


From chromatic at wgz.org  Tue Dec 13 15:05:15 2005
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:05:15 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131436380.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512131436380.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <1134515115.23445.227.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 14:37 -0800, Kris Bosland wrote:

> 	How windows-friendly is svk?

As long as you have a running Subversion installation that includes the
Perl bindings, svk should just work.

-- c


From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Tue Dec 13 16:01:16 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:01:16 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Apress Quarterly UG Newsletter
Message-ID: <20051214000116.GG22405@joshheumann.com>

----- Forwarded message from Apress Usergroup <janet at Apress.com> -----

Apress User Group Newsletter 
Issue 4; Quarter 4, 2005 

****PLEASE FORWARD OR POST THIS NEWSLETTER FOR ALL GROUP MEMBERS****

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sections:

1. Apress Affiliate Program-Make Money!
2. Ablog--The Apress Weblogs
3. Special Offers and Promotions
4. The Apress SuperIndex
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6.  The Latest Apress Books--Hot Off the Press
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"Ajax Patterns and Best Practices"
By Christian Gross
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"Foundations of Atlas: Rapid Ajax Development with ASP.NET 2.0"
By Laurence Moroney, 
To publish April 2006 | ISBN:  1-59059-647-1 | 500 pages | $39.99
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***************************************

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"Pro SQL Server 2005"
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October 2005 | ISBN: 1-59059-477-0 | 550 pages | $49.99
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"Dynamics AX: A Guide to Microsoft Axapta"
By Luis Mourao and David Weiner
October 2005 | ISBN: 1-59059-489-4 | 496 pages | $69.99
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***************************************

7. Forthcoming Books--Winter Releases

"Microsoft SharePoint: Building Office 2003 Solutions, Second Edition"
By Scot P. Hillier 
To publish December 2005 | ISBN: 1-59059-575-0 | 416 pages | $59.99
http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10055 

"Pro JSP 2, Fourth Edition"
Edited by Kevin Mukhar
To publish December 2005 | ISBN: 1-59059-513-0 | 650 pages | $49.99
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"SQL Server 2005 T-SQL Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach"
By Joseph Sack
To publish December 2005 | ISBN: 1-59059-570-X | 768 pages | $59.99
http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10045 

"Beginning ASP.NET 2.0 IN C#: From Novice to Professional"
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To publish January 2006 | ISBN: 1-59059-572-6 | 1,100 pages | $49.99
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"Beginning PHP and MySQL 5: From Novice to Professional, Second Edition"
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To publish January 2006 | ISBN: 1-59059-552-1 | 900 pages | $44.99
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"The Definitive Guide to ImageMagick"
By Michael Still
To publish December 2005 | ISBN: 1-59059-590-4 | 360 pages | $49.99
http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10052 

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----- End forwarded message -----

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 13 23:35:32 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:35:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Who's tex@off.org?
Message-ID: <20051214073532.59020.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com>

Anyone know who tex at off.org is?  I unsubscribed them after I got
flooded with bounces from them for the past couple of days.

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From joe at radiojoe.org  Tue Dec 13 23:39:15 2005
From: joe at radiojoe.org (Joe Oppegaard)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:39:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Who's tex@off.org?
In-Reply-To: <20051214073532.59020.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051214073532.59020.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0512132337360.16254@gadsden.radiojoe.org>

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 at 11:35pm -0800, Ovid wrote:

> Anyone know who tex at off.org is?  I unsubscribed them after I got
> flooded with bounces from them for the past couple of days.
>

That is Austin Schutz.

-Joe

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Wed Dec 14 13:20:55 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:20:55 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
Message-ID: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>

December Meeting
Wednesday, December 14th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave

>From the Kwiki:

Any Perlish or geekish lecture, rant, speech, poem, droll witticism, or
(hopefully) constructive criticism that you can fit into N MINUTES
(where N usually equals 5, 8, 10 or 15).

Here's the current lineup:

* Ovid, TPF news
* Ovid Brief description of traits
* EricWilhelm, uber-converter war stories
* EricWilhelm, reloader
* EricWilhelm, PerlTestJuggler
* RandalSchwartz, surprise topic (or maybe something boring, but I want to contribute!)

Add yourself to the lineup on the kwiki:
http://portland.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?PortlandPerlMongers

Or, just show up and demand a slot tonight.

J

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Wed Dec 14 16:09:23 2005
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:09:23 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd:  December Meeting Tonight
In-Reply-To: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>
References: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>

If you are interested in podcasting this, you can borrow a wireless
microphone from Martin and use the podcasting box there at FreeGeek. 
Martin, is anyone available to loan out the mic?

Instructions are here:

http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Podcast_Production
http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Podcasting

You don't need a USB thumbdrive, but it is the best way to operate it.
 If you don't have one, just let me know and I can chop the
automatically captured file manually later.  Just turn on the
microphone and the box will automatically capture the sound.  I'll do
the rest.  I cannot make it tonight, but would love to hear the
lightning talks.

PDX.rb (Ruby group) used it two weeks ago:

http://pdxrb.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=tuesday.xml
http://pdxrb.podasp.com/

Chris
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Josh Heumann <perl-pm at joshheumann.com>
Date: Dec 14, 2005 1:20 PM
Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
To: pdx-pm-list at mail.pm.org


December Meeting
Wednesday, December 14th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave

>From the Kwiki:

Any Perlish or geekish lecture, rant, speech, poem, droll witticism, or
(hopefully) constructive criticism that you can fit into N MINUTES
(where N usually equals 5, 8, 10 or 15).

Here's the current lineup:

* Ovid, TPF news
* Ovid Brief description of traits
* EricWilhelm, uber-converter war stories
* EricWilhelm, reloader
* EricWilhelm, PerlTestJuggler
* RandalSchwartz, surprise topic (or maybe something boring, but I
want to contribute!)

Add yourself to the lineup on the kwiki:
http://portland.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?PortlandPerlMongers

Or, just show up and demand a slot tonight.

J
_______________________________________________
Pdx-pm-list mailing list
Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list

From ben.hengst at gmail.com  Wed Dec 14 21:30:47 2005
From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:30:47 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: December Meeting Tonight
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>
	<659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85ddf48b0512142130p691c795dke8d94426194367db@mail.gmail.com>

boo for getting stuck at work. Sorry guys, I would have much rather
been there. Hope everyone had a good time. Did any one take notes?
record? i'm interested in it either way.

benh~
On 12/14/05, Chris Dawson <xrdawson at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you are interested in podcasting this, you can borrow a wireless
> microphone from Martin and use the podcasting box there at FreeGeek.
> Martin, is anyone available to loan out the mic?
>
> Instructions are here:
>
> http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Podcast_Production
> http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Podcasting
>
> You don't need a USB thumbdrive, but it is the best way to operate it.
>  If you don't have one, just let me know and I can chop the
> automatically captured file manually later.  Just turn on the
> microphone and the box will automatically capture the sound.  I'll do
> the rest.  I cannot make it tonight, but would love to hear the
> lightning talks.
>
> PDX.rb (Ruby group) used it two weeks ago:
>
> http://pdxrb.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=tuesday.xml
> http://pdxrb.podasp.com/
>
> Chris
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Josh Heumann <perl-pm at joshheumann.com>
> Date: Dec 14, 2005 1:20 PM
> Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
> To: pdx-pm-list at mail.pm.org
>
>
> December Meeting
> Wednesday, December 14th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave
>
> >From the Kwiki:
>
> Any Perlish or geekish lecture, rant, speech, poem, droll witticism, or
> (hopefully) constructive criticism that you can fit into N MINUTES
> (where N usually equals 5, 8, 10 or 15).
>
> Here's the current lineup:
>
> * Ovid, TPF news
> * Ovid Brief description of traits
> * EricWilhelm, uber-converter war stories
> * EricWilhelm, reloader
> * EricWilhelm, PerlTestJuggler
> * RandalSchwartz, surprise topic (or maybe something boring, but I
> want to contribute!)
>
> Add yourself to the lineup on the kwiki:
> http://portland.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?PortlandPerlMongers
>
> Or, just show up and demand a slot tonight.
>
> J
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Dec 15 10:24:34 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:24:34 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Subversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512150934240.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512150934240.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200512151024.35074.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Kris Bosland
# on Thursday 15 December 2005 09:35 am:

>I was also wondering, what type of laptop do you have?

A few people have asked about it, so I'll just put this on-list.

  http://emperorlinux.com/mfgr/sharp/meteor/

This is for informational purposes only.  I can't really say that I 
endorse it (seems like the 12" powerbook might be tougher, but at the 
cost of another pound.)  I would much rather lug 2lbs than 12 though.

--Eric
-- 
We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals.
--Quarry worker's creed
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Thu Dec 15 10:22:26 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:22:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Quick-n-Dirty web dev
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512151015520.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


	I want to do some development of some CGI/Ajax/JSON scripts, but
since I am not certain of the server situation yet I don't want to set up
a full apache install and start fiddling with all the parts I am not so
interested in.  Has anyone used a Perl lib or other small web server to do
this sort of testing?  I would like something that I can run on Windows
without compiling anything.  Also, is there a standard FastCGI connector
for Perl?

	BTW Randal, would you be willing to release an Alpha version of
what you showed us last night?

Thanks.

-Kris



From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Thu Dec 15 18:13:58 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 15 Dec 2005 18:13:58 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Quick-n-Dirty web dev
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512151015520.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512151015520.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <86u0d9eql5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Kris" == Kris Bosland <krisb at ring.org> writes:

Kris> 	I want to do some development of some CGI/Ajax/JSON scripts, but
Kris> since I am not certain of the server situation yet I don't want to set up
Kris> a full apache install and start fiddling with all the parts I am not so
Kris> interested in.  Has anyone used a Perl lib or other small web server to do
Kris> this sort of testing?  I would like something that I can run on Windows
Kris> without compiling anything.  Also, is there a standard FastCGI connector
Kris> for Perl?

Kris> 	BTW Randal, would you be willing to release an Alpha version of
Kris> what you showed us last night?

I'd definitely be willing to share what I got, but it's hugely messy
since I'm just learning. I expect a more formal release
(CGI::Prototype::Prototype? :) in a few weeks or so.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From krisb at ring.org  Fri Dec 16 08:46:01 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:46:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Quick-n-Dirty web dev
In-Reply-To: <86u0d9eql5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512160845090.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Messy is OK.  I am gearing up to start learning this also, so I
will be following along.

Thanks.

-Kris

On 15 Dec 2005, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> >>>>> "Kris" == Kris Bosland <krisb at ring.org> writes:
>
> Kris> 	I want to do some development of some CGI/Ajax/JSON scripts, but
> Kris> since I am not certain of the server situation yet I don't want to set up
> Kris> a full apache install and start fiddling with all the parts I am not so
> Kris> interested in.  Has anyone used a Perl lib or other small web server to do
> Kris> this sort of testing?  I would like something that I can run on Windows
> Kris> without compiling anything.  Also, is there a standard FastCGI connector
> Kris> for Perl?
>
> Kris> 	BTW Randal, would you be willing to release an Alpha version of
> Kris> what you showed us last night?
>
> I'd definitely be willing to share what I got, but it's hugely messy
> since I'm just learning. I expect a more formal release
> (CGI::Prototype::Prototype? :) in a few weeks or so.
>
> --
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
>
>
> !DSPAM:43a221c6194371725192175!
>
>


From krisb at ring.org  Fri Dec 16 11:04:24 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:04:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Quick-n-Dirty web dev
In-Reply-To: <86u0d9eql5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0512161103400.16047-100000@ender.ring.org>


On 15 Dec 2005, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> I'd definitely be willing to share what I got, but it's hugely messy
> since I'm just learning. I expect a more formal release
> (CGI::Prototype::Prototype? :) in a few weeks or so.

Randal, here is a reference on the Keep-Alive I was talking about:

http://www.io.com/~maus/HttpKeepAlive.html

-Kris


From xrdawson at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 17:33:23 2005
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:33:23 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>
	<659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30512191733gc1832eai357594c9432ba04a@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the delay; the meeting on the 14th is now posted as a podcast here:

http://pdxpm.podasp.com/
http://pdxpm.podasp.com/rss/meetings.xml

(or, it will be in a few minutes when the episode is uploaded...)

If anyone wants to change the interface and has CSS skills, let me know.

Thanks,
Chris

On 12/14/05, Chris Dawson <xrdawson at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you are interested in podcasting this, you can borrow a wireless
> microphone from Martin and use the podcasting box there at FreeGeek.
> Martin, is anyone available to loan out the mic?
>
> Instructions are here:
>
> http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Podcast_Production
> http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Podcasting
>
> You don't need a USB thumbdrive, but it is the best way to operate it.
>  If you don't have one, just let me know and I can chop the
> automatically captured file manually later.  Just turn on the
> microphone and the box will automatically capture the sound.  I'll do
> the rest.  I cannot make it tonight, but would love to hear the
> lightning talks.
>
> PDX.rb (Ruby group) used it two weeks ago:
>
> http://pdxrb.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=tuesday.xml
> http://pdxrb.podasp.com/
>
> Chris
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Josh Heumann <perl-pm at joshheumann.com>
> Date: Dec 14, 2005 1:20 PM
> Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
> To: pdx-pm-list at mail.pm.org
>
>
> December Meeting
> Wednesday, December 14th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave
>
> >From the Kwiki:
>
> Any Perlish or geekish lecture, rant, speech, poem, droll witticism, or
> (hopefully) constructive criticism that you can fit into N MINUTES
> (where N usually equals 5, 8, 10 or 15).
>
> Here's the current lineup:
>
> * Ovid, TPF news
> * Ovid Brief description of traits
> * EricWilhelm, uber-converter war stories
> * EricWilhelm, reloader
> * EricWilhelm, PerlTestJuggler
> * RandalSchwartz, surprise topic (or maybe something boring, but I
> want to contribute!)
>
> Add yourself to the lineup on the kwiki:
> http://portland.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?PortlandPerlMongers
>
> Or, just show up and demand a slot tonight.
>
> J
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From randall at sonofhans.net  Mon Dec 19 17:49:31 2005
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:49:31 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30512191733gc1832eai357594c9432ba04a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>
	<659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<659b9ea30512191733gc1832eai357594c9432ba04a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F9056C8-E06D-4D2D-8980-3D6C9E7AFDEF@sonofhans.net>

On Dec 19, 2005, at 5:33 PM, Chris Dawson wrote:

> Sorry for the delay; the meeting on the 14th is now posted as a  
> podcast here:

sweet; thanks, chris.

> If anyone wants to change the interface and has CSS skills, let me  
> know.

is that the "Randall signal" i see flashing on the clouds? :)

r


From xrdawson at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 17:53:25 2005
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:53:25 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
In-Reply-To: <8F9056C8-E06D-4D2D-8980-3D6C9E7AFDEF@sonofhans.net>
References: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>
	<659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<659b9ea30512191733gc1832eai357594c9432ba04a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8F9056C8-E06D-4D2D-8980-3D6C9E7AFDEF@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30512191753v69050804v3678a84cab593258@mail.gmail.com>

I should mention that a bunch of the original CSS work was done by
none other than our own Randall Hansen.  Randall, please take a bow.

Chris

On 12/19/05, Randall Hansen <randall at sonofhans.net> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2005, at 5:33 PM, Chris Dawson wrote:
>
> > Sorry for the delay; the meeting on the 14th is now posted as a
> > podcast here:
>
> sweet; thanks, chris.
>
> > If anyone wants to change the interface and has CSS skills, let me
> > know.
>
> is that the "Randall signal" i see flashing on the clouds? :)
>
> r
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 20:51:37 2005
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:51:37 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] December Meeting Tonight
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30512191733gc1832eai357594c9432ba04a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051214212055.GB31460@joshheumann.com>
	<659b9ea30512141609k707dabc1xe6f843d6ca3f6e4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<659b9ea30512191733gc1832eai357594c9432ba04a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200512192051.37169.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Chris Dawson
# on Monday 19 December 2005 05:33 pm:

>Sorry for the delay; the meeting on the 14th is now posted

Nice.  My graphical aids look much better in mp3 format :-)

Chris, What's the redistribution terms on these?

--Eric
-- 
"If you only know how to use a hammer, every problem begins to look like
a nail."
--Richard B. Johnson
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 00:08:54 2005
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 00:08:54 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] podcasting for dollars (was December Meeting Tonight)
Message-ID: <659b9ea30512200008p7ae4d272i1c01edf9c8780de1@mail.gmail.com>

You can do whatever you want as far as I am concerned.  How does that sound?

On a related note, at this point I can offer free hosting.  Depending
on how popular things get, we might want to work out a sponsorship
with someone where part of some underwriting money goes to offsetting
that hosting cost, with the rest going to the user group.  I think
this is an interesting opportunity for all of us.  We've got some of
the highest quality speakers in the world right here in Portland.  I
am generating some statistics that I'll present soon to this list
which will tell us who else is listening.  Don't forget Poland!

I might have just opened a huge can of worms, but let's just get it out there.

Discuss.

Chris
On 12/19/05, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> # from Chris Dawson
> # on Monday 19 December 2005 05:33 pm:
>
> >Sorry for the delay; the meeting on the 14th is now posted
>
> Nice.  My graphical aids look much better in mp3 format :-)
>
> Chris, What's the redistribution terms on these?
>
> --Eric
> --
> "If you only know how to use a hammer, every problem begins to look like
> a nail."
> --Richard B. Johnson
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>