From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Apr 2 19:20:17 2003 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] april meeting? Message-ID: <86vfxwz8a6.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Topic? Location? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From jkeroes at eli.net Thu Apr 3 15:38:27 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] April 2003 Meeting Message-ID: <20030403213827.GA17073@eli.net> Next Wedsnesday is the next PDX.pm meeting. We have not one but two speakers this month! Curtis Poe has been cashing in his mad-scientist points to bring you: use strict 'sql'; my $sql = 'SELECT *' and die "Don't do that!"; my $data = $sth->fetchrow_hashref and die "Or that!"; my $sql = 'SELECT this FROM that' and die "Still bad"; use base 'Class::DBI'; # much better Many people misuse SQL. While some of the above can be fine for a short script, we should be careful about how SQL is used in a production environment. This talk will detail why the above constructs can lead to non-scalable code. First, we'll show some examples of bad SQL and then move on to better SQL with bad implementations (hint: I don't avoid &DBI::fetchrow_hashref for performance reasons). We'll finish with a quick discussion of how object persistence modules can help lead us lead us out of the quagmire. That's either grounds for a religious war or a healthy debate! Bring your arguments and/or armaments and we'll find out. --- Next up is Brian "I write a new module every week" Ingerson with guest speaker Ward Cunningham. Together they'll talk about Test::FIT. Test::FIT is an acronym for "Test Colon Colon Framework for Integration Tests" which is a little redundantly-redundant but that's that. Ward invented FIT to display a project's test status on the web so everyone knows what works and what doesn't work. Ingy implemented the framework in tight, clean object-oriented Perl. A picture's worth a thousand words. See all those words at an actual project that uses FIT: http://www.neocoretechs.com/results.html --- Summary: Who: Curtis Poe, Brian Ingerson, Ward Cunningham and you! What: April 2003 PDX.pm meeting When: Wed 9 Apr 2003 6PM-8PM Where: Old Market Pub & Brewery - Map at http://snurl.com/kk2 Why: Need you even ask? Schedule: 6:00: Social Hour - pool, shuffleboard, chatter, beer, etc. 7:00: Curtis Poe - use strict 'sql'; 7:45: Intermission 8:00: Brian Ingerson, Ward Cunningham - Test::FIR -Joshua From jkeroes at eli.net Fri Apr 4 19:02:07 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] [poec@yahoo.com: PM Discount to OSCON] Message-ID: <20030405010206.GU25090@eli.net> Read this: ----- Forwarded message from Ovid ----- From: Ovid Reply-To: poec@yahoo.com To: Joshua Keroes Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:37:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: PM Discount to OSCON Hey Joshua, If anyone is interested in going to OSCON in July, we can get a discount for being in Perl Mongers (well, probably). >From the Web site: -- UG discounts are available. For discount information or to see if your group is eligible please email Marsee Henon for details. To sign your group up with the O'Reilly User Group Program please go to http://ug.oreilly.com/. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/23/register.html -- I, for one, would love an opportunity to save a bundle of money. Cheers, Ovid ----- End forwarded message ----- From poec at yahoo.com Sun Apr 6 16:54:14 2003 From: poec at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Wednesday meeting Message-ID: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, A couple of notes regarding the Wednesday meeting and a cry for help! The "use strict 'sql';" presentation, while using Perl for the examples, is not about Perl, but about use and abuse of SQL in applications. If you're interested in this topic, you might find the presentation worthwhile, regardless of your chosen programming language(s). The presentation is almost finished and I'm using KPresenter (which, I must confess, leaves a little to be desired). I don't have a laptop, so I'm going to try to burn the presentation on CD in both HTML and KPresenter format. I might be able to swing bringing a friend along who has Linux on his laptop, but I haven't been able to confirm this yet. If you have a laptop running Linux that you're bringing to the meeting that has a CD player and that I can use, the presentation looks *much* better in KPresenter than it does in HTML. Cheers, Ovid ===== "Ovid" on http://www.perlmonks.org/ Web Programming with Perl: http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ Silence Is Evil: http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/decency.txt __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From jkeroes at eli.net Tue Apr 8 00:14:44 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Wednesday meeting reminder In-Reply-To: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> PDX.pm meeting is this Wedsnesday. Extra extra read-all-about-it at http://pdx.pm.org/ -J From jkeroes at eli.net Wed Apr 9 15:07:36 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> References: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> Message-ID: <20030409200736.GA20282@eli.net> The April PDX.pm meeting is *TONIGHT*. Wednesday 9 April 2003, 6-8PM at Old Market Pub & Brewery Map: http://snurl.com/kk2 Schedule * 6:00: Social Hour - pool, shuffleboard, chatter, beer, etc. * 7:00: Curtis Poe - use strict 'sql'; * 7:45: Intermission * 8:00: Brian Ingerson, Ward Cunningham - Test::FIT use strict 'sql'; Curtis Poe has been cashing in his mad-scientist points to bring you: use strict 'sql'; my $sql = 'SELECT *' and die "Don't do that!"; my $data = $sth->fetchrow_hashref and die "Or that!"; my $sql = 'SELECT this FROM that' and die "Still bad"; use base 'Class::DBI'; # much better Many people misuse SQL. While some of the above can be fine for a short script, we should be careful about how SQL is used in a production environment. This talk will detail why the above constructs can lead to non-scalable code. First, we'll show some examples of bad SQL and then move on to better SQL with bad implementations (hint: I don't avoid &DBI::fetchrow_hashref for performance reasons). We'll finish with a quick discussion of how object persistence modules can help lead us lead us out of the quagmire. That's either grounds for a religious war or a healthy debate! Bring your arguments and/or armaments and we'll find out which. Test::FIT Next up is Brian "I write a new module every week" Ingerson with guest speaker Ward Cunningham. Together they'll talk about Test::FIT. Test::FIT is an acronym for "Test Colon Colon Framework for Integration Tests" which is a little redundantly-redundant but that's that. Ward invented FIT to display a project's test status on the web so everyone knows what works and what doesn't work. Ingy implemented the framework in tight, clean object-oriented Perl. A picture's worth a thousand words. See all those words at an actual project that uses FIT: http://www.neocoretechs.com/results.html All this info and more at http://pdx.pm.org/ __END__ From dpool at hevanet.com Wed Apr 9 16:10:17 2003 From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: <20030409200736.GA20282@eli.net> References: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> <20030409200736.GA20282@eli.net> Message-ID: <3E948C39.3090708@hevanet.com> So, the meeting goes from 6pm to 8pm and Ingy and Ward take the stage at 8pm? Must be a short presentation ;-) david pool Joshua Keroes wrote: > The April PDX.pm meeting is *TONIGHT*. > > Wednesday 9 April 2003, 6-8PM at Old Market Pub & Brewery > Map: http://snurl.com/kk2 > > Schedule > > * 6:00: Social Hour - pool, shuffleboard, chatter, beer, etc. > * 7:00: Curtis Poe - use strict 'sql'; > * 7:45: Intermission > * 8:00: Brian Ingerson, Ward Cunningham - Test::FIT > From jkeroes at eli.net Wed Apr 9 16:37:36 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: <3E948C39.3090708@hevanet.com> References: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> <20030409200736.GA20282@eli.net> <3E948C39.3090708@hevanet.com> Message-ID: <20030409213736.GB20282@eli.net> They're start times, start times I say! On (Wed, Apr 09 14:10), David Pool wrote: > So, the meeting goes from 6pm to 8pm and Ingy and Ward take the stage at > 8pm? Must be a short presentation ;-) > > david pool > > Joshua Keroes wrote: > >The April PDX.pm meeting is *TONIGHT*. > > > >Wednesday 9 April 2003, 6-8PM at Old Market Pub & Brewery > >Map: http://snurl.com/kk2 > > > >Schedule > > > > * 6:00: Social Hour - pool, shuffleboard, chatter, beer, etc. > > * 7:00: Curtis Poe - use strict 'sql'; > > * 7:45: Intermission > > * 8:00: Brian Ingerson, Ward Cunningham - Test::FIT > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From cp at onsitetech.com Wed Apr 9 17:07:54 2003 From: cp at onsitetech.com (Curtis Poe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] RFC: 1618i References: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> <20030409200736.GA20282@eli.net> <3E948C39.3090708@hevanet.com> <20030409213736.GB20282@eli.net> Message-ID: <002301c2fee4$7873aa80$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> Hopefully, this will be taken in the spirit it was intended :) -- Portland Perl Mongers Group Curtis "Ovid" Poe Request for Comments: 1618i Updates: Joshua Category: Standards Track April 2003 Telling Time : Generic Behavior Status of this Memo This document specifies a Perl Mongers standards track protocol for the Portland Perl community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the "PM Official Protocol Standards" (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. Copyright Notice Copyright (C) Curtis "Ovid" Poe (2003). All Rights Reserved. Abstract Joshua Keroes has demonstrated an inability to effectively communicate time limitations to the members of Portland Perl Mongers. After extensive research and a beer or two, we have come to the conclusion that Joshua most likely owns an analog watch and cannot visually distinguish length of big hands and little hands (this might explain some other tall tales, but we digress). This RFC is an attempt to circumvent this difficulty. 1. Introduction Analog watches have been the bane of humanity ever since a bunch of gears were tossed in a box, shaken, and the first analog watch emerged. Those who choose to wear analog watches frequently consider themselves "hip" and would disdain the thought of wearing a digital watch. However, when asked the time, those who wear the analog watches, when asked the time, look decidely unhip whilst staring bleakly at the difficult to read watch and mutter, "oh, it's a quarter past, um, three ... no ... four". Contrast this to the responses exhibited by those who wear a digital watch: "It's four-thirteen, and seventeen seconds at ... mark!" While admittedly looking rather geeky, those who are bold enough to wear a digital watch are, in fact, more precise. 1.1 Overview of Joshua While it is not entirely certain that Joshua does, in fact, wear an analog watch, we still conclude that he has difficulty telling time. Rather than giving him an extensive course in how to use the analog API and potentially humiliate him, we recommend asking subtle questions such as "Joshua, what's the big hand on?" By asking such questions, it is anticipated that Joshua will begin to realize that size does, in fact, matter, and that placement of hands can have a significant effect on future activities. 1.2 Modifications for Joshua Either buy a digital watch or learn the analog API. 2. Full Copyright Statement Copyright (C) CURTIS "OVID" POE (1998). All Rights Reserved. This document and translations of it may be copied and furnished to others, and derivative works that comment on or otherwise explain it or assist in its implementation may be prepared, copied, published and distributed, in whole or in part, without restriction of any kind, provided that the above copyright notice and this paragraph are included on all such copies and derivative works. However, this document itself may not be modified in any way, such as by removing the copyright notice or references to Curtis "Ovid" Poe or other Perl-related organizations, except as needed for the purpose of developing Internet standards in which case the procedures for copyrights defined in the Perl Mongers Standards process must be followed, or as required to translate it into languages other than English. The limited permissions granted above are perpetual and will not be revoked by Curtis "Ovid" Poe or his successors or assigns. This document and the information contained herein is provided on an "AS IS" basis and OVID AND PERLMONGERS TASK FORCE DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. From jkeroes at eli.net Wed Apr 9 17:28:17 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] RFC: 1618i In-Reply-To: <002301c2fee4$7873aa80$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> References: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> <20030409200736.GA20282@eli.net> <3E948C39.3090708@hevanet.com> <20030409213736.GB20282@eli.net> <002301c2fee4$7873aa80$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> Message-ID: <20030409222816.GE20282@eli.net> On (Wed, Apr 09 15:07), Curtis Poe wrote: > Hopefully, this will be taken in the spirit it was intended :) > > -- > > Portland Perl Mongers Group Curtis "Ovid" [snip] > 2. Full Copyright Statement > > Copyright (C) CURTIS "OVID" POE (1998). All Rights Reserved. Looks like I'm not the only one who can't tell time. Either that or someone's been planning on getting me for a v e r y long time. ...stalker! J. From cp at onsitetech.com Wed Apr 9 17:36:02 2003 From: cp at onsitetech.com (Curtis Poe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] RFC: 1618i References: <20030406215414.54115.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> <20030408051444.GA9640@eli.net> <20030409200736.GA20282@eli.net> <3E948C39.3090708@hevanet.com> <20030409213736.GB20282@eli.net> <002301c2fee4$7873aa80$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> <20030409222816.GE20282@eli.net> Message-ID: <003901c2fee8$6684eb50$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Keroes" > > Copyright (C) CURTIS "OVID" POE (1998). All Rights Reserved. > > Looks like I'm not the only one who can't tell time. Either that or > someone's been planning on getting me for a v e r y long time. Damn. Damn, damn, damn. It's day five without smoking. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it! Cheers, Ovid From cp at onsitetech.com Thu Apr 10 10:42:42 2003 From: cp at onsitetech.com (Curtis Poe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] April meeting and slides Message-ID: <00e101c2ff77$d2fea4d0$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> Hi all, It was a great meeting last night and I'm interesting in tearing into the stuff that Brian and Ward presented last night. Looks great. The slides of the "use strict 'sql';" talk are available at http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/presentation/strictsql/ If you have KPresenter, you can download the presentation at http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/presentation/strictsql/usestrictsql.kpr Regrettably, when exporting to HTML format, KPresenter likes to render the entire slide as an image. Thus, if you have a slow connection, it might be painful to watch. I'll try to get off my duff and create a tarball or zip file of it if anyone needs that. Cheers, Ovid From ingy at ttul.org Thu Apr 10 12:04:07 2003 From: ingy at ttul.org (Brian Ingerson) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] April meeting and slides In-Reply-To: <00e101c2ff77$d2fea4d0$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com>; from cp@onsitetech.com on Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 08:42:42AM -0700 References: <00e101c2ff77$d2fea4d0$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> Message-ID: <20030410100407.B25925@ttul.org> On 10/04/03 08:42 -0700, Curtis Poe wrote: > Hi all, > > It was a great meeting last night and I'm interesting in tearing into the > stuff that Brian and Ward presented last night. Looks great. The relevant links are: http://fit.c2.com http://yaml.freepan.org Cheers, Brian > The slides of the "use strict 'sql';" talk are available at > http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/presentation/strictsql/ > > If you have KPresenter, you can download the presentation at > http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/presentation/strictsql/usestrictsql.kpr > > Regrettably, when exporting to HTML format, KPresenter likes to render the > entire slide as an image. Thus, if you have a slow connection, it might be > painful to watch. I'll try to get off my duff and create a tarball or zip > file of it if anyone needs that. > > Cheers, > Ovid > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From robb at empire2.com Fri Apr 11 15:01:33 2003 From: robb at empire2.com (Rob Bloodgood) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Discounts Message-ID: <194155058792.20030411130133@empire2.com> So, there was a rumor here for a second that we could be eligible for a discount at OSCON, being the local user group, and all. Was anything further established? Did we ever tell OReilly that we exist and are interested in said discount? Do we have a code I can cut-paste into the registration form? L8r, Rob From poec at yahoo.com Fri Apr 11 15:07:05 2003 From: poec at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Discounts In-Reply-To: <194155058792.20030411130133@empire2.com> Message-ID: <20030411200705.49149.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> --- Rob Bloodgood wrote: > So, there was a rumor here for a second that we could be eligible for > a discount at OSCON, being the local user group, and all. > > Was anything further established? Did we ever tell OReilly that we > exist and are interested in said discount? > > Do we have a code I can cut-paste into the registration form? As I understand it, the group leader has to apply for the discount, but I can't swear to that. Cheers, Ovid ===== "Ovid" on http://www.perlmonks.org/ Web Programming with Perl: http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ Silence Is Evil: http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/decency.txt __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From jkeroes at eli.net Fri Apr 11 15:40:14 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Discounts In-Reply-To: <20030411200705.49149.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> References: <194155058792.20030411130133@empire2.com> <20030411200705.49149.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030411204014.GY1717@eli.net> > --- Rob Bloodgood wrote: > > So, there was a rumor here for a second that we could be eligible > > for a discount at OSCON, being the local user group, and all. Was > > anything further established? Did we ever tell OReilly that we exist > > and are interested in said discount? > > > > Do we have a code I can cut-paste into the registration form? On (Fri, Apr 11 13:07), Ovid wrote: > As I understand it, the group leader has to apply for the discount, but I can't swear to that. We've been part of ug.ora.com for the past month or two - that's why we get books for review and other goodies from them. I don't know the discount code yet but I just drafted a letter to O'Reilly's contact for this. We'll get it soon. -J From robb at empire2.com Fri Apr 11 17:09:09 2003 From: robb at empire2.com (Rob Bloodgood) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Discounts In-Reply-To: <20030411204014.GY1717@eli.net> References: <194155058792.20030411130133@empire2.com> <20030411200705.49149.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> <20030411204014.GY1717@eli.net> Message-ID: <193162715752.20030411150909@empire2.com> Friday, April 11, 2003, 1:40:14 PM, you wrote: >> --- Rob Bloodgood wrote: >> > So, there was a rumor here for a second that we could be eligible >> > for a discount at OSCON, being the local user group, and all. Was >> > anything further established? Did we ever tell OReilly that we exist >> > and are interested in said discount? >> > >> > Do we have a code I can cut-paste into the registration form? JK> On (Fri, Apr 11 13:07), Ovid wrote: >> As I understand it, the group leader has to apply for the discount, but I can't swear to that. JK> We've been part of ug.ora.com for the past month or two - that's why we JK> get books for review and other goodies from them. I don't know the JK> discount code yet but I just drafted a letter to O'Reilly's contact for JK> this. We'll get it soon. THANK YOU! I got my manager to approve the cost of attentding the convention cuz it's in town, but of course any discounts that can be applied are desirable... as a part owner, the bottom line DOES have an actual relationship to me. :-) L8r, Rob From chromatic at wgz.org Mon Apr 14 11:30:03 2003 From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: UG Conference Discount Message-ID: <581BF062-6E96-11D7-876D-000393DBC8FE@wgz.org> Hi All, Marsee said it was okay to share this discount code with the entire list. Enjoy! -- c Begin forwarded message: > From: Marsee Henon > Subject: Re: UG Conference Discount > > The standard discount for user groups on all conferences currently is > 20% if they use code > DSUG. If they register before the "Early Bird" date, they get 20% off > that price. > > Once in a great while, if attendance is not good, they may give a > better discount. But it is too > early to tell with OSCON. From cp at onsitetech.com Tue Apr 15 11:35:39 2003 From: cp at onsitetech.com (Curtis Poe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Python job opening Message-ID: <010501c3036d$0cce6f80$1f01a8c0@ot.onsitetech.com> Hello, We've lost our Python programmer and need another. We've already started interviewing but we need a broader pool of candidates. We've been building a large GUI application in Python that uses wxPython and connects to a server via XML-RPC (server is written in Perl, but Zope may be an option). Most of the interface is already built, we just need the final features added and we anticipate a couple of months of work. However, we have other Python projects planned, so this position should be considered a temp-to-hire position. Required skills: 1. Python 2. OO design Desired skills: 1. wxPython and PIL (Python Imaging Library) 2. Perl. We're primarily a Perl shop, so it's helpful if $programmer->can('communicate') 3. XML-RPC 4. Database normalization 5. Design patterns 6. Zope 7. Threads You might notice that our "required" list if fairly small. We believe that a strong programmer who communicates clearly can learn what needs to be done. If you're interested, please submit a resume and code sample to jobs@onsitetech.com. Resume format can be text, HTML, pdf, or MS Word. Cheers, Ovid From jkeroes at eli.net Tue Apr 15 12:31:27 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Discounts In-Reply-To: <193162715752.20030411150909@empire2.com> References: <194155058792.20030411130133@empire2.com> <20030411200705.49149.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> <20030411204014.GY1717@eli.net> <193162715752.20030411150909@empire2.com> Message-ID: <20030415173127.GO1717@eli.net> On (Fri, Apr 11 15:09), Rob Bloodgood wrote: >>>> So, there was a rumor here for a second that we could be eligible >>>> for a discount at OSCON, being the local user group, and all. Was >>>> anything further established? Did we ever tell OReilly that we exist >>>> and are interested in said discount? The Perl Monger discount code is DSUG, good for 20% off. -J From jkeroes at eli.net Fri Apr 18 16:36:55 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] [marsee@oreilly.com: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, April 18] Message-ID: <20030418213655.GM9993@eli.net> Portland Perl Mongers: The O'Reilly usergroup sends me these notices on a weekly basis. Do you want me to forward them to the userlist? Do you think that they're spammish? Overly commercial? Very, very useful? I'm neutral so you tell me what you want in your mailbox. -Joshua ----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon ----- From: Marsee Henon To: ua@pobox.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, April 18 O'Reilly User Group Program Newsletter April 18, 2003 Please share this information with your members... Highlights This Week: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Programming Visual Basic .NET, 2nd Edition -The Web Programming CD Bookshelf, Version 1.0 -O'Reilly Pocket References ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Rael Dornfest ("Mac OS X Hacks" & "Google Hacks") A32 and SVMUG Meeting, Cupertino, CA--April 21 -Simon St. Laurent ("Programming Web Services with XML-RPC"), XML Special Interest Group of New York, NY--April 22 -Directory Experts Conference, Scottsdale, AZ--Apr 28-May 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conferences ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Day Passes are available for the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference -Registration is open for the 2003 O'Reilly Open Source Convention -O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation -Put Up an O'Reilly Open Source Convention Banner, Get a Free Book --------------------------------------------------------------- Safari ---------------------------------------------------------------- -"Go On Safari" winner--Alfredo Octavio, Caracas Macintosh User Group ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Interview with Tim O'Reilly -Eight Search Engine "C" Changes -Special Offer--Free 'Intro to XML' Online Class -Knoppix: A Painless Introduction to Linux -PHP and Heredocs -Reading and Writing Excel Files with POI -.NET Streams Explained -Migration to Windows Server 2003 Now Easier -Getting Dreamweaver MX Up to Speed with PHP -Implementing BIND on Mac OS X -Apache Web Serving with Jaguar, Part 2 -Tell Us What You Think: The First Survey of Mac DevCenter Readers ---------------------------------------------------------------- News From Your Peers ---------------------------------------------------------------- -SF Java By The Bay Meeting, San Francisco, CA--April 23 -MD25MD: Celebrating Twenty-Five Years of The Maryland Apple Corps, Baltimore, MD--June 1 ================================================ Book News ================================================ Review books are available--email me for a copy. ***Please include the book order number on your requests. Let me know if you need your books by a certain date. Allow at least four weeks for shipping. Send or email me copies of your newsletters and book reviews. Don't forget, your members get 20% off any O'Reilly book they purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering. http://www.oreilly.com/ ***Group purchases with better discounts are available*** Please let me know if you are interested. Press releases are available on our press page: http://press.oreilly.com/ ***Programming Visual Basic .NET, 2nd Edition Order Number: 4389 "Programming Visual Basic .NET, 2nd Edition" is the complete guide to application development using VB.NET. Thorough, entertaining, and easy to follow, this book provides a comprehensive and detailed overview of the language, object-oriented programming, and the .NET Framework. Then it goes further, showing you how to create Windows and web applications, as well as web services. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/progvbdotnet2/ Chapter 15, "Building Web Applications with Web Forms," is online now: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/progvbdotnet2/chapter/index.html ***The Web Programming CD Bookshelf, Version 1.0 Order Number: 5105 We've packed six of our best-selling web programming guides into this CD-ROM, giving you 4,668 pages of O'Reilly references and tutorials, all fully searchable and cross-referenced. You can search either the individual index for each book, or the master index for the entire collection. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wprogcdbs/ ***O'Reilly Pocket References Our pocket references and pocket guides are comprehensive, inexpensive, compact, and easy to use. They pack lots of the hard-to-remember details of programming and web syntax, focused tutorials that explain the basics of a new technology, and power-user tips into your back pocket. http://pocketrefs.oreilly.com/ =============================================== Upcoming Events =============================================== ***Rael Dornfest ("Mac OS X Hacks" & "Google Hacks"), A32 and SVMUG meeting, Cupertino, CA--April 21 Author Rael Dornfest will be speaking with the Association of A32 Users and the Silicon Valley Mac Users Group about his two new Hacks books. April 21, 7 pm Beatles Conference Room, DeAnza Building Three Apple Corporate Campus Cupertino, California Meeting Directions: http://www.a32.org/inner_pages/map.html For more info: http://www.a32.org ***Simon St. Laurent ("Programming Web Services with XML-RPC"), XML Special Interest Group of New York, NY--April 22 O'Reilly author and editor Simon St. Laurent will be presenting the XML used in Microsoft Office 2003. Microsoft Office 2003 will include enormous new XML functionality, especially in Microsoft Word and Microsoft Excel, as well as a new (though limited-distribution) application, InfoPath. This talk will take a close look at what's included and not included in this set of tools, as well as how developers can integrate them with their own systems. April 22, 7-9pm Goldman Sachs 180 Maiden Lane, Room 30C1 New York, NY To reserve a place at this meeting please send a request to wperry@xml-sig.org. You will receive a confirmation by return email. Security requires that those attending this meeting be registered at least a day in advance so that their names are available to check against attendance at the door. Please register before Monday, April 21, to insure that you will be admitted. ***Directory Experts Conference, Scottsdale, AZ--Apr 28-May 1 Authors Robbie Allen ("Active Directory, 2nd Edition" and "Active Directory Cookbook," both coming in summer 2003) and Cricket Liu ("DNS and BIND," "DNS on Windows NT," and "DNS on Windows 2000") are featured keynote speakers. April 28-May 1 Scottsdale Mountain Shadows Marriott Resort & Golf Club 5641 East Lincoln Drive Scottsdale, Arizona http://www.netpro.com/welcome/decadus/index.cfm ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***Day Passes are available for the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference Can't make the whole conference? Buy a day pass for April 23, 24, or 25. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/et2003/create/ord_et03 For more info on the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference: http://conferences.oreilly.com/etcon/ ***Registration is open for the 2003 O'Reilly Open Source Convention --Portland, OR Programmers, developers, strategists, technical staff, and other open source votaries from around the world congregate for five days of tutorials, conference sessions, and networking of the flesh-and-blood variety. Recognizing that open source tools have moved squarely into the mainstream, this year's convention focuses on "embracing and extending proprietary software." O'Reilly Open Source Convention Portland Marriott Downtown, Portland, OR July 7-11, 2003 http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ Early Bird Discount-- User Group members who register before May 23, 2003, get a double discount. Use code DSUG when you register, and you'll get 20% off the "Early Bird" price. To register, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2003/create/ord_os03 ***O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation System administrators, developers, strategists, technical staff, and power users are invited to submit proposals to lead tutorial and conference sessions at the second annual O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference. Suggested topics include: Scripting Genius, Amazing Applications, Ingenious Hacks, and SysAdmin Mac Style, to name a few. http://conferences.oreilly.com/macosxcon/ The submission deadline for proposals is May 14, 2003: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/macosx2003/create/e_sess ***Put Up an O'Reilly Open Source Convention Banner, Get A Free Book Ready for the next conference banner promotion? Here it is: We are looking for user groups to display our conference banners on their web sites. If you send me the link to your user group site with our O'Reilly Open Source Convention banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book of your choice. OSCON Conference Banners: http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/oscon2003/ ================================================ Safari News ================================================ ***"Go On Safari" Tip of the Week Winner--Alfredo Octavio, Caracas Macintosh User Group "Even if you have a University library or a big bookstore nearby, you'll find Safari's accessibility and sheer number of books very convenient...There are books by Sun, Addison-Wesley, Peachpit Press, Apprentice Hall, Que, Adobe Press, Sams, Macromedia Press, Cisco Press, and Microsoft Press among others. The variety of publishers guarantees that you will find a book on a topic with any experience level you need." Your group can also participate in this introductory program just for user group members. To "Go on Safari," any of your members who sign up for our Safari 14-day free trial send comments on their experiences, or tips and tricks for how they used Safari (it only needs to be 2 sentences long, but it may be longer) to safari_talk@oreilly.com. Every week someone will be chosen from the tips or comments submitted to receive fun stuff from O'Reilly (T-shirts, book bags, or other surprises). If a member of your user group is selected, your group receives free gifts, too. Whatever the individual member receives, your UG will get one, too, to give away at your next meeting, or use however you see fit. Recipients--and their comments--will be announced in the User Group Newsletter. **Please use this special UG URL to sign up for the 14-day trial** http://www.oreilly.com/safari/ug For more information on Safari: http://safari.oreilly.com/ ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***An Interview with Tim O'Reilly Tim isn't just talking about open source; he's talking about the basic human impulse to share and participate. In this Switch interview, he places art, western science, music, and the movies squarely in the middle of open source culture. http://switch.sjsu.edu/~switch/nextswitch/switch_engine/front/front.php?artc=268 Tim will be talking about these kinds of topics at next week's Emerging Technology Conference. http://conferences.oreilly.com/etcon/ ***Eight Search Engine "C" Changes Tara Calishain, a self-proclaimed search engine addict, ponders the future direction search engines could take. How might pay-for-inclusion programs and other revenue generators change the way we search? http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2003/04/11/googlehacks.html Tara is a coauthor of "Google Hacks." Order Number: 4478 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/googlehks/ ***Special Offer--Free 'Intro to XML' Online Class Enroll in any Linux/Unix online certification class at the Learning Lab and get a free 'Intro to XML' course, a $298 value. Receive hands-on experience in sys admin with a live coach. Graduates of the four course series receive certification from the University of Illinois, one of the top five engineering schools in the U.S. http://oreilly.useractive.com/courses/sysadmin.php3 --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Knoppix: A Painless Introduction to Linux A new release of Knoppix has hit the mirrors. Burn a copy and give it to a friend. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/3065 ***PHP and Heredocs Tired of having PHP, HTML, and even SQL jumbled together in the same file? Are your designers, coders, and DBAs going crazy trying to keep everything in check? A clean layer of separation can help. Daniel Smith explains how PHP's heredocs can make your life much easier by separating presentation, content, and logic. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/php/2003/04/10/php_heredocs.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Reading and Writing Excel Files with POI The Jakarta POI project provides a nice Java API for reading and writing Microsoft file formats. After learning about the project, most people ask, "How can I write a spreadsheet?" Andrew C. Oliver and the POI folks demonstrate how to read and write Excel files using the Horrible SpreadSheet Format class. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/04/16/poi_excel.html --------------------- .NET --------------------- ***.NET Streams Explained On of the common challenges facing beginning .NET programmers is the large number of classes in the .NET Class Library. Looking for the correct class to use for file handling can be confusing. There are many classes in the System.IO namespace, each looking not much different from the others. Wei-Meng Lee explains the differences between the Stream classes. HTTP://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2003/04/14/streams.html ***Migration to Windows Server 2003 Now Easier Gartner Research suggests that up to 70 percent of Microsoft Windows users still run NT. If you or your company are considering migrating to Server 2003 in the next year, you'll need a copy of the bestselling book for both Windows 2000 and Windows Server 2003, "Active Directory, 2nd Edition." http://www3.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=112816 Active Directory, 2nd Edition Order Number: 4664 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/actdir2/ --------------------- Web Development --------------------- ***Getting Dreamweaver MX Up to Speed with PHP David McFarland has updated his article on Dreamweaver's PHP extensions to include some free and commercial products from Interakt. If you missed his article the first time around, Dave has written a comprehensive list of available add-ons for using PHP with Dreamweaver. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2003/02/07/dreamweaver.html Dave is the author of" Dreamweaver MX: The Missing Manual." Order Number: 3498 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/drmweavmxtmm/ --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Implementing BIND on Mac OS X The Berkeley Internet Name Domain (BIND) distribution is a suite of Unix utilities that works with the Domain Name System. The nslookup and dig utilities are a part of the BIND distribution, but the named DNS server is what people most often refer to as BIND. The DNS server portion is what we will be focusing on in this article. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/04/15/bind.html ***Apache Web Serving with Jaguar, Part 2 Kevin Hemenway explores the world of CGI access in his continuing series of articles on Apache Web Serving with Jaguar. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/04/11/apache_jaguar_pt2.html Kevin is a coauthor of "Mac OS X Hacks." Order Number: 4605 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mcosxhks/ ***Tell Us What You Think: The First Survey of Mac DevCenter Readers If you want to know, you've got to ask. We're asking Mac DevCenter readers to participate in an online survey. We've sweetened the pot with a chance to win books and T-shirts. Here's how it works. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/04/11/survey.html ================================================ News From Your Peers ================================================ ***SF Java By The Bay Meeting, San Francisco, CA--April 23 Java By The Bay, the Java user group for San Francisco presents Grid Computing: An introduction to Open Grid Services Infrastructure by Sastry Malladi and Creating a Java Development Environment with Open Source Tools and Oracle9i JDeveloper on Linux by Rob Clevenger. Registration and refreshments at 5:30pm and speakers begin at 6 pm. Please RSVP at http://www.vircon.com/events/javabythebay.htm Wednesday April 23, 2003 The Commonwealth Club 595 Market Street, San Francisco, CA ***MD25MD: Celebrating Twenty-Five Years of The Maryland Apple Corps, Baltimore, MD--June 1 The Maryland Apple Corps, in cooperation with The Mid-Atlantic Macintosh User Groups Team celebrates twenty-five years as the Greater Baltimore area's Apple/Macintosh Users Group! Very special keynote address by Steve Wozniak, Apple Co-Founder/Technology & Industry Innovator with special guests: Chuck Joiner (Apple User Group Advisory Board Chairman/Hershey Apple Core President), Dave Marra (Apple K-12 Senior Systems Engineer/User Group Guru), Daniel M. East (Mid-Atlantic Macintosh User Groups Team President), Victor Nazarian (Technologies Expert/Consultant/Maryland Apple Corps Member), Fred Showker (Association of Apple Computer Users & Groups Editor/User Group Network President), Gail Murphy Glore (WiredWomen Founder/Apple Consultants Network Member/Fmr. User Group Advisory Board), and others. June 1, 2:00pm, Baltimore Hebrew Congregation 7401 Park Heights Avenue Baltimore, MD 21208-5490 *event location subject to change based on capacity. http://www.mamugs.org/md25md/ Until next time-- Marsee ----- End forwarded message ----- From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Apr 18 21:47:34 2003 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] [marsee@oreilly.com: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, April 18] In-Reply-To: <20030418213655.GM9993@eli.net> References: <20030418213655.GM9993@eli.net> Message-ID: <863ckfp5ix.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Joshua" == Joshua Keroes writes: Joshua> Portland Perl Mongers: Joshua> The O'Reilly usergroup sends me these notices on a weekly basis. Joshua> Do you want me to forward them to the userlist? Do you think that Joshua> they're spammish? Overly commercial? Very, very useful? I'm neutral Joshua> so you tell me what you want in your mailbox. Can you simply redirect them to a URL, and then about once every two months, post the URL? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From jkeroes at eli.net Mon Apr 21 12:25:49 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] [marsee@oreilly.com: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, April 18] In-Reply-To: <20030418213655.GM9993@eli.net> References: <20030418213655.GM9993@eli.net> Message-ID: <20030421172549.GU9993@eli.net> On (Fri, Apr 18 14:36), Joshua Keroes wrote: > The O'Reilly usergroup sends me these notices on a weekly basis. > Do you want me to forward them to the userlist? The list has replied with a resounding "no". I will not forward these newsletters to the list. Unfortunately, the newsletter don't appear to be available any other way, at least none that I could figure out by looking at the webpage[1]. I'll take it to Marsee, to see if they can make this content available in alternate channels. -J From dpool at hevanet.com Mon Apr 21 13:19:52 2003 From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] HB 2892 - Fight for what you believe Message-ID: <3EA43648.2040709@hevanet.com> All right people, if you haven't been paying attention, this is the part of the battle where Microsoft scuttles Bill 2892 in a back office deal and then we apply our own political pressure to bring it back to life. This is the crucial leverage point. Cooper and Ken have carried the ball this far, but they are no match for Microsoft. If you ever thought about getting off your duff to promote Open Source/Free Software, NOW IS THAT TIME! Heck you don't even have to get off your duff. Just send the letter below out to everyone you know in Oregon, then follow its advice and send the second half to your representatives and the committee members. If you understand this issue - express yourself. This is a far more important element of representational democracy than voting. You can actually make a difference. Do it. Sources tell me TODAY is the day to make your voice heard. David Pool -------------------------------- Dear Friends, There is a Bill stuck in the Oregon legislature that could save the state budget MILLIONS of dollars by considering Open Source software like the Linux operating system. According to Friday's Oregonian, Microsoft lobbyists have managed to scuttle this Bill in closed door sessions. Source: http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1050666959318260.xml Microsoft has $30 billion to spend, we have nothing but your support. We need that support now, just to get the Bill considered openly and honestly. IBM, Google, Amazon, Yahoo - all use Open Source software because it saves them money. Merrill Lynch uses it too (and they understand money). Here's a direct quote from Merrill Lynch: "'...when modifications or repairs are needed, an open-source software customer can solicit for competitive bids, where a commercial software customer would be forced to turn only to the software's creator. That's an attractive proposition for a business." Source: http://weblog.kestrelworks.com/archives/000199.html It would be a travesty of justice to let Microsoft get away with this ploy. Our Schools need these $Millions far more than Microsoft needs more profits. Please consider sending the letter below to your representatives. You can locate your representatives here: http://www.leg.state.or.us/findlegsltr/findset.htm Of course you can tell everyone, if you really want to send a message: Full Senate http://www.injuredworker.org/Senate.htm Full House http://www.injuredworker.org/House.htm Thanks for your support. If we pull together, we can do great things in Oregon! PS Send this on to your friends, too! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Elected Official, I am concerned that Bill 2892 appears to have been waylaid in the House General Government Committee(1). This bill would ask Oregon government agencies to consider using Open Source software alternatives, potentially saving the state millions of dollars. Because the bill allows the Government to choose commercial products when that's the best choice, I don't see why the committee is preventing the legislature from considering this bill. (Yes, I understand that Microsoft is lobbying heavily against it). In these budgetary times, I think it's wrong to not consider options for saving money that could be better spent on schools and healthcare. Please use your influence to get this bill considered in the light of day, Name City, State 1. The Oregonian: http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1050666959318260.xml 2. Bill 2892 http://www.leg.state.or.us/03reg/measures/hb2800.dir/hb2892.intro.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- The General Government committee of the Oregon House Representative Jerry Krummel Chair Email Address: rep.jerrykrummel@state.or.us Representative Donna Nelson Vice-Chair Email Address: rep.donnanelson@state.or.us Representative Floyd Prozanski Vice-Chair Email Address: rep.floydprozanski@state.or.us Representative Brad Avakian Email Address: rep.bradavakian@state.or.us Representative Derrick Kitts Email Address: rep.derrickkitts@state.or.us Representative John Mabrey Email Address: rep.johnmabrey@state.or.us Representative Kelley Wirth Email Address: rep.kelleywirth@state.or.us From aspen_108 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 21 14:24:28 2003 From: aspen_108 at hotmail.com (aspen 108) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] array question Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20030421/c34bcc5e/attachment.htm From poec at yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 14:40:31 2003 From: poec at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] array question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030421194031.83665.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Annett; > I am using a two-dimensional array, which I want to use, erase completely, > use again, etc. A simple way of emptying an array: @some_array = (); > Each time, the array indices are different. Is there an easy way to do this? > I tried using undef, and while this clears the value in each element, it is > still remembering the array indices. I'm not certain why it would keep the array indices. You can run this snippet to see what's happening: #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; use Data::Dumper; my @array = qw(foo bar baz); print Dumper \@array; undef @array; print Dumper \@array; Can you show us a code snippet where you're having the problem? Cheers, Ovid ===== Ovid http://www.perlmonks.org/ Web Programming with Perl http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ Silence Is Evil http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/decency.txt __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From tex at off.org Mon Apr 21 15:09:16 2003 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] array question In-Reply-To: ; from aspen_108@hotmail.com on Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 07:24:28PM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20030421130916.H30402@gblx.net> On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 07:24:28PM +0000, aspen 108 wrote: Can folks please post to the list in plain text? Thanks, Austin From aspen_108 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 21 15:23:04 2003 From: aspen_108 at hotmail.com (aspen 108) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] array question Message-ID: Hi Ovid- Thanks for the note. I will give your snippet a try. Here're some parts of the code where I'm running into the problem. Be forewarned, I'm kind of a perl newbie... Here's the part where I'm reading the data into these arrays: if ($get_temp == 1 && $inp_line !~ /Temperature/) { @temp_array = split ' ', $inp_line; for $temp_data (@temp_array) { $temp[$seg][$lay] = $temp_data; printf "%s%10.1f%10.1f%8.2f%8.2f%8.1f\n", $reg_date, $seg, $lay, $temp[$seg][$lay], $tot_seg, $#{$temp[$seg]}; $lay++; } } Here's one example of how I'm trying to clear the array: for ($seg = $#temp; $seg > 0; $seg--) { for ($lay = $#{$temp[$seg]}; $lay > 0; $lay--) { undef $temp[$seg][$lay]; } } That print statement with the $#{$temp[$seg]} lets me look at the index as it runs, and the array indices are not being cleared with the undef. I gave your one suggestion "@some_array = ();" a quick try, but that didn't clear the indices either... not sure if there's a different syntax for a 2-d array though. Thank you for your help, Annett :) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tkil at scrye.com Mon Apr 21 16:00:15 2003 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] array question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>>>> "Annett" == aspen <108" > writes: Annett> Here're some parts of the code where I'm running into the Annett> problem. Be forewarned, I'm kind of a perl newbie... That's ok, we're here to educate. Occasionally with a stick with spiky bits on it, but really, we're just using tough love... Annett> Here's the part where I'm reading the data into these arrays: Annett> if ($get_temp == 1 && $inp_line !~ /Temperature/) { Annett> @temp_array = split ' ', $inp_line; Annett> for $temp_data (@temp_array) { Annett> $temp[$seg][$lay] = $temp_data; Annett> printf "%s%10.1f%10.1f%8.2f%8.2f%8.1f\n", $reg_date, $seg, Annett> $lay, $temp[$seg][$lay], $tot_seg, $#{$temp[$seg]}; Annett> $lay++; Annett> } Annett> } Without knowing where $seg is getting set (and is $lay getting reset somewhere?), it's hard to figure out which values are being duplicated or not. Consider: | #!/usr/bin/perl -w | | use strict; | | use Data::Dumper qw( Dumper ); | $Data::Dumper::Indent = 1; | | my @temp; | | while ( my $line = ) | { | next unless $line =~ /^Temperature/; | | my @vals = split ' ', $line; | shift @vals; # get rid of label | | push @temp, \@vals; | } | | print Dumper \@temp; | | exit 0; | | __DATA__ | Temperature: a b c | Pressure: 1 2 3 | Temperature: alpha beta gamma Which prints: | $ ./annett2.plx | $VAR1 = [ | [ | 'a', | 'b', | 'c' | ], | [ | 'alpha', | 'beta', | 'gamma' | ] | ]; Annett> Here's one example of how I'm trying to clear the array: Annett> for ($seg = $#temp; $seg > 0; $seg--) { Annett> for ($lay = $#{$temp[$seg]}; $lay > 0; $lay--) { Annett> undef $temp[$seg][$lay]; Annett> } Annett> } You really should be able to just do: undef @temp; And this will blow away everything. Remember, Perl is reference-counting and garbage-collecting; you don't have to "undef" anything when you're done using it. (Exception: circular structures.) Annett> That print statement with the $#{$temp[$seg]} lets me look at Annett> the index as it runs, and the array indices are not being Annett> cleared with the undef. I gave your one suggestion Annett> "@some_array = ();" a quick try, but that didn't clear the Annett> indices either... not sure if there's a different syntax for a Annett> 2-d array though. I'm not quite clear what you mean by "clear the indices". If you undef an array, or assign the empty list into it, then $#array should be -1, and "scalar @array" should be 0. Consider: | #!/usr/bin/perl -w | | use strict; | | my @a; | | @a = qw( a b c ); | print "orig: \@a = [ @a ], \$#a = $#a\n"; | | undef @a; | print "after undef: \@a = [ @a ], \$#a = $#a\n"; | | @a = qw( a b c ); | print "refilled: \@a = [ @a ], \$#a = $#a\n"; | | @a = (); | print "after assign: \@a = [ @a ], \$#a = $#a\n"; | | 0; Which prints: | $ ./annett1.plx | orig: @a = [ a b c ], $#a = 2 | after undef: @a = [ ], $#a = -1 | refilled: @a = [ a b c ], $#a = 2 | after assign: @a = [ ], $#a = -1 So either "undef @array" or "@array = ()" will get rid of the indices as advertised. Which is why I think there's a conversational gap here. Offhand, I'd guess that $seg and $lay aren't getting (re)set quite right. Also, remember that Perl arrays are (almost) always counted from 0, so if you set $array[100], then all the indexes from 0 to 99 inclusive are created and set to undef. If you want sparse arrays, use hashes. :) t. From aspen_108 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 21 17:03:01 2003 From: aspen_108 at hotmail.com (aspen 108) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] array question Message-ID: Hi Tkil- Thanks for your answer. I ran a few tests, and my code is now running perfectly without a peep. Yay! So, yes, both you and Ovid were right. Either "@temp = ();" or "undef @temp" totally cleared my 2-d arrays. My earlier attempt to "undef $temp[$seg][$lay];" cleared the values but kept the array indices, which was the cause of the problem. Thanks guys! Annett :) p.s. Apologies to others who couldn't read my first post. Still not sure how to get it to post as a reply rather than a new post. Hope this one works... _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From ingy at ttul.org Tue Apr 22 16:38:04 2003 From: ingy at ttul.org (Brian Ingerson) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fw: MOSS meeting May 3rd, 2-5 pm (Open Source social) Message-ID: <20030422143804.B25357@ttul.org> ----- Forwarded message from Kevin Altis ----- From: "Kevin Altis" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:21:10 -0700 To: "Brian Ingerson" Cc: "Ward Cunningham" , "Oso Martin" , ptkwt@aracnet.com, chromatic@oreilly.com, pundit@teleport.com, cooper@cooper.stevenson.name, "Allan Abravanel" , joejava@attbi.com, bart@cs.pdx.edu, "Pete Mackie" , "Charlie Kawasaki" , "'Rose Marshall'" , "'Rich Bader'" , "'Larry Wade'" , "Michael Lee Squires" Subject: MOSS meeting May 3rd, 2-5 pm (Open Source social) X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) For up-to-date information and links, please see the MOSS home page: http://moss.freepan.org/ Information from the home page is duplicated below. We look forward to seeing you at the first MOSS meeting! Please distribute this announcement to your user groups, friends and co-workers involved in open source. Everyone is welcome. If you have questions, please email Kevin Altis at the address below. ka --- Kevin Altis altis@semi-retired.com http://altis.pycs.net/ ============================================================ The first MOSS meeting will be held at the Lucky Lab on May 3rd from 2-5 pm. This is your opportunity to meet other Open Source developers and advocates in Oregon. If you want to confirm that you're attending, please add your name to the Attendees page. http://moss.freepan.org/index.cgi?Attendees WHO: Anyone interested in Open Source in Oregon. We expect developers and advocates of well known projects like Apache, Linux, Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, MySQL, and PostgreSQL, as well as lesser-known projects to attend. There will also be people involved in the Oregon Open Source bill (HB 2892) and the Personal Telco wireless project attending. WHAT: MOSS social. There will be a brief intro at the beginning, but otherwise this will be a social meeting without a fixed agenda. We will provide a white board and wiki to capture who attended and what projects they are involved in. Wireless connectivity will likely not be available at this first event. If we are able to arrange wireless for the event, we will post an update on this page. WHERE: Lucky Labrador Brew Pub (Directions) http://www.luckylab.com/lab_trans.html 915 SE Hawthorne Boulevard Portland, Oregon 97214 (503)236-3555 WHEN: May 3rd, from 2-5 PM (Saturday afternoon) WHY: Meet other people working on Open Source projects in the Portland Metro Area. If you have an interest in promoting Open Source in Oregon or just want to find out what Open Source developers on Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris, Windows, etc. are doing in Oregon then this is the place to be. The Lucky Lab has food, beer, and wine (menu). http://www.luckylab.com/lab_menu.html * * * Neither the Lucky Lab or organizers will be responsible for lost or stolen goods. We don't recommend that you bring any equipment unless you are willing to keep track of it yourself. * * * ----- End forwarded message ----- From ralph.schmoldt at saiemail.com Wed Apr 23 17:55:38 2003 From: ralph.schmoldt at saiemail.com (Ralph Schmoldt) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] [JOB] Portland Programmer Needed Message-ID: <3EA719EA.3050501@saiemail.com> The small company I work for needs a PERL programmer who can help with a few projects on an hourly or independent contractor basis. There is a fair amount of work so it could be a full or part-time position over a period of weeks or possibly months (the important thing is to be able to devote a certain number of hours on a regular basis that we can count on). Familiarity with Linnux/Unix, relational databases and MySQL is preferable. Could work mostly from home with occasional trips to Troutdale to meet with staff programmers for assignments. Can start immediately. If interested, please send an electronic resume or a short note summarizing relevant experience and describing the amount of time you would be available on a regular basis. Thanks, Ralph Schmoldt From jhoblitt at ifa.hawaii.edu Wed Apr 23 22:40:52 2003 From: jhoblitt at ifa.hawaii.edu (Joshua Hoblitt) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl Whirl '03 Message-ID: Is anyone else going to Perl Whirl '03? I was just filling out the form and noticed you can request both who you share a room with and sit with at dinner. -J -- From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Apr 23 22:55:07 2003 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl Whirl '03 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <861xzstuqs.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Joshua" == Joshua Hoblitt writes: Joshua> Is anyone else going to Perl Whirl '03? I was just filling Joshua> out the form and noticed you can request both who you share a Joshua> room with and sit with at dinner. I'm going! And, if you have any special request about room or table, lemme know. I know the Big Guy. :) (No, you can't room with me. I also room with the Big Guy.) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From jhoblitt at ifa.hawaii.edu Wed Apr 23 23:06:43 2003 From: jhoblitt at ifa.hawaii.edu (Joshua Hoblitt) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl Whirl '03 In-Reply-To: <861xzstuqs.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: > I'm going! I saw you on the speakers list. Do you know what the lecture schedule is? Day two (Hilo) happens to be home-base for me right now. If I'm not in a session I'd be happy to play tour guide to Mauna Kea (telescopes) or the flow fields. -J -- From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Apr 23 23:29:47 2003 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl Whirl '03 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86vfx4sekk.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Joshua" == Joshua Hoblitt writes: Joshua> I saw you on the speakers list. Do you know what the lecture Joshua> schedule is? Yes... I have a copy of the program for both Perl Whirl and MacMania right here on my disk. Not sure how much of it is preliminary though. Joshua> Day two (Hilo) happens to be home-base for me Joshua> right now. If I'm not in a session I'd be happy to play tour Joshua> guide to Mauna Kea (telescopes) or the flow fields. We already have a limited-attendance telescope run. Apparently, I'm one of the drivers. :) Looking forward to hooking up with you then. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From Fabio45K at netscape.net Fri Apr 25 08:08:42 2003 From: Fabio45K at netscape.net (Fabio45K@netscape.net) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] perl on-line game Message-ID: <20708E17.4C9093B5.00707BF5@netscape.net> i just got my perl on-line game server program hosted by sourceforge.net, if anybody wants to help me with it please tell me, and i can put you on as a member of the team. And i could use alot of help. __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 From rootbeer at redcat.com Fri Apr 25 10:21:32 2003 From: rootbeer at redcat.com (Tom Phoenix) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] perl on-line game In-Reply-To: <20708E17.4C9093B5.00707BF5@netscape.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 Fabio45K@netscape.net wrote: > i just got my perl on-line game server program hosted by > sourceforge.net, if anybody wants to help me with it please tell me, and > i can put you on as a member of the team. And i could use alot of help. I think I can save you a lot of time here. I've seen this before, although not from you and not on this list. You're not going to get any helpful response to your message. (Well, maybe this message is helpful. But that's not my fault. :-) Why not? Why don't people on this list want to help you? Is everybody in Portland selfish and mean? Sure, but that's not what's wrong here. Instead, imagine seeing this message on your favorite list: I just bought sixty gallons of paint for my house, if anybody wants to help me with it tell me and i can put you on as a member of the team. And i could use alot of help. Not gonna get a lot of responses, is it? Wait, I think I hear you complaining. Did you say something about this being an unfair comparison? What's that? Writing code for your game is going to be more fun than painting a house? I dunno. Tom Sawyer knew how to make painting look like fun, but your project sure looks like work to me. Now, I'm giving you a hard time here, but it's not merely for the sake of giving you a hard time. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, in the hopes that your game turns out to be worth it. (If I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt, I'd simply ignore your message, and maybe you'd get no response at all.) But it all comes down to this: You gotta SELL it. It's all about marketing. You don't tell people that you want to sell them a high-fat low-nutrition burger-and-fries put together fifteen minutes ago by an underpaid worker who couldn't get a job that doesn't get grease in their hair. You offer them a Super Value Meal! So here's whatcha gotta do. Put together a web page about the game, a page that answers these questions: * What is this game? * Why is this game going to be great? * What does this great game have that any other project doesn't have? * How do you know it's going to be great? * Why should _I_ take the time to help make it great? Then post a message back to this list in a week or so. Give it a bang-up subject line, followed by a short message that _sells_ us on it. (BTW, your message was just the right length. Sure, I can find plenty to complain about in that message, but I'd be silent if it had had a URL pointing to an informative page about the project. Heck, we don't even know the NAME of your game! So that message length is good, but don't forget the URL.) If you make your game look good enough, you won't need to ask for help on a Portland-area list. It will be all you can do to manage your project's own mailing list full of eager coders. Good luck with it! --Tom Phoenix From jkeroes at eli.net Sun Apr 27 12:00:33 2003 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:19 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-shirts Message-ID: <20030427170033.GD3114@eli.net> T-shirts are rolling forward. Soon, we'll have shirts with this logo that randall@sonofhans.net created: http://pdx.pm.org/res/img/logo_01.gif Excited? I know I am. :-) Here's the bad news: I don't know much they'll cost yet but really, they're just tshirts. They can't possibly cost much more than a night out carousing. :-) Heck, *real* carousing would probably get you a few tshirts. This is more on the order of a few beers with friends but I digress. PDX.pm has ~160 members. I think a run of 50 shirts is a decent estimate but I'd like to get a better one... please send me a private email with the number of shirts you'd like and preferred sizing. Thanks, J PS This isn't an order. Again, you're not ordering anything from me; I just want to know roughly how many we should order.