From msoulier at digitaltorque.ca  Thu Mar  3 05:25:14 2011
From: msoulier at digitaltorque.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 08:25:14 -0500
Subject: [Ottawa-pm] Repackaging Perl modules (was Wanted: 5
	Perl	Programmers)
In-Reply-To: <4D6BBE69.8060908@pythian.com>
References: <348A7B0E52C1374FABC45E2854500ECA0332A067EC@mcc-exc01.lmcc.local>
	<AANLkTi=JdQbTCFSr1dsCtxYdwKJLMf3sV8SrcNRfWNej@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D67E748.6070206@pythian.com>
	<20110225173412.GD2747@digitaltorque.ca>
	<4D67E9E6.1040701@pythian.com>
	<20110225202704.GA1715@kostya.digitaltorque.ca>
	<20110226071238.GA24961@chicken.dmo.ca>
	<20110227153249.GB16453@digitaltorque.ca>
	<4D6BBE69.8060908@pythian.com>
Message-ID: <20110303132514.GB2652@digitaltorque.ca>

On 28/02/11 Yanick Champoux said:

>     Could be worse. I had to hack a wee bit in Perl 4 last year. No,  
> seriously, I did. I felt like Indiana Jones and the Codebase of Doom.

Yikes.

>     Anyway, regarding the pains of massive deployment, the path I took  
> is following the precept of Sun Tzu "The only battle you're ensured to  
> win is the battle you avoid".  Unless eldritch requirements force me to  

It's different when you own the OS, sort of. Our infrastructure expects rpms
and any attempt to go around standard conventions is highly criticized. CentOS
is old enough in its tracking of packages that I'm constantly tempted to ship
my own interpreters but thus far I don't. We don't need ten apps all wasting
disk space shipping all their own base.

Mike
-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at digitaltorque.ca>
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a
touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
--Albert Einstein
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From champoux at pythian.com  Thu Mar  3 07:45:56 2011
From: champoux at pythian.com (Yanick Champoux)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:45:56 -0500
Subject: [Ottawa-pm] Repackaging Perl modules (was Wanted: 5 Perl
	Programmers)
In-Reply-To: <20110303132514.GB2652@digitaltorque.ca>
References: <348A7B0E52C1374FABC45E2854500ECA0332A067EC@mcc-exc01.lmcc.local>
	<AANLkTi=JdQbTCFSr1dsCtxYdwKJLMf3sV8SrcNRfWNej@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D67E748.6070206@pythian.com>
	<20110225173412.GD2747@digitaltorque.ca>
	<4D67E9E6.1040701@pythian.com>
	<20110225202704.GA1715@kostya.digitaltorque.ca>
	<20110226071238.GA24961@chicken.dmo.ca>
	<20110227153249.GB16453@digitaltorque.ca>
	<4D6BBE69.8060908@pythian.com>
	<20110303132514.GB2652@digitaltorque.ca>
Message-ID: <4D6FB7B4.8030209@pythian.com>

On 03/03/11 08:25, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> On 28/02/11 Yanick Champoux said:
>
>>      Could be worse. I had to hack a wee bit in Perl 4 last year. No,
>> seriously, I did. I felt like Indiana Jones and the Codebase of Doom.
> Yikes.

     That was epic, and will indubitably stay as one of my favorite war 
story evah.


>
> It's different when you own the OS, sort of. Our infrastructure expects rpms
> and any attempt to go around standard conventions is highly criticized.

     Mind you, installing your own perl doesn't preclude you to bundle 
that rogue instance as rpms. The gain is simply that those rpms install, 
say, to /opt/<your_company> instead of polluting the main system.

     Now, if the Power That Is is telling you that you can't install in 
exotic locations, but can't disturb the main system either, well, in 
that case, you're a little bit caught in a Yossarian's situation. I 
recommend beginning to swim toward Switzerland. ;-)


> CentOS
> is old enough in its tracking of packages that I'm constantly tempted to ship
> my own interpreters but thus far I don't. We don't need ten apps all wasting
> disk space shipping all their own base.

     True. At the price and size hard disk are nowadays, we wouldn't 
want to waste a full 100 megs needlessly.

     ... okay, okay, put down that rock. I know there are circumstances 
where HD space *is* a consideration -- I'm just taking the mickey of all 
the PHBs who recoil in horror at the thought of bundling a perl with 
their app, and yet turn around and don't see any problem whatsoever 
deploying java applications that weight twice that size.

     Mind you, you could already address part of the additional size 
issue by having a single codebase under '/opt/<your_company>' -- you 
don't duplicate for each application, and yet you free yourself from the 
system's code corset.

Joy,
`/anick

From msoulier at digitaltorque.ca  Sun Mar  6 06:51:36 2011
From: msoulier at digitaltorque.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 09:51:36 -0500
Subject: [Ottawa-pm] Repackaging Perl modules (was Wanted: 5 Perl
 Programmers)
In-Reply-To: <4D6FB7B4.8030209@pythian.com>
References: <AANLkTi=JdQbTCFSr1dsCtxYdwKJLMf3sV8SrcNRfWNej@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D67E748.6070206@pythian.com>
	<20110225173412.GD2747@digitaltorque.ca>
	<4D67E9E6.1040701@pythian.com>
	<20110225202704.GA1715@kostya.digitaltorque.ca>
	<20110226071238.GA24961@chicken.dmo.ca>
	<20110227153249.GB16453@digitaltorque.ca>
	<4D6BBE69.8060908@pythian.com>
	<20110303132514.GB2652@digitaltorque.ca>
	<4D6FB7B4.8030209@pythian.com>
Message-ID: <20110306145136.GC2674@kostya.digitaltorque.ca>

On 03/03/11 Yanick Champoux said:

>     Mind you, installing your own perl doesn't preclude you to
> bundle that rogue instance as rpms. The gain is simply that those
> rpms install, say, to /opt/<your_company> instead of polluting the
> main system.
> 
>     Now, if the Power That Is is telling you that you can't install
> in exotic locations, but can't disturb the main system either, well,
> in that case, you're a little bit caught in a Yossarian's situation.
> I recommend beginning to swim toward Switzerland. ;-)

Lets just say that it would have to be a last resort. Plus, it's a lot of
work, and I have plenty already.

>     True. At the price and size hard disk are nowadays, we wouldn't
> want to waste a full 100 megs needlessly.

Try in a vmware vapp where every meg of disk space allocated is criticized by
the customer. "disk space is cheap" is no longer true guys, sorry. Blame
virtualization and cheap customers. Not to mention the size of the download
for the install is also highly criticized, as we do all install/upgrades via
the Internet. And the storage area where those packages are stored is shared
space with other developers, and it's in huge, expensive disk arrays where
getting more space is cost prohibitive...

>     ... okay, okay, put down that rock. I know there are
> circumstances where HD space *is* a consideration -- I'm just taking
> the mickey of all the PHBs who recoil in horror at the thought of
> bundling a perl with their app, and yet turn around and don't see
> any problem whatsoever deploying java applications that weight twice
> that size.

I've made a career out of ridiculing java developers.

>     Mind you, you could already address part of the additional size
> issue by having a single codebase under '/opt/<your_company>' -- you
> don't duplicate for each application, and yet you free yourself from
> the system's code corset.

That would cut the problem down to a single extra interpreter, yes. Mind you,
that wouldn't help much with mod_perl, and other dependent technologies on the
system that were built against the distribution's perl.

Mike
-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at digitaltorque.ca>
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a
touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
--Albert Einstein
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From jpuderer at littlebox.ca  Fri Mar 11 10:42:39 2011
From: jpuderer at littlebox.ca (James Puderer)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:42:39 -0500
Subject: [Ottawa-pm] Inviting the Ottawa Perl Mongers to Ottawa IPv6 Summit
	- April 29th
Message-ID: <AANLkTim7hiXJ3R9v+6EnO1AmP3jSD6HCOOBpJVm7N69X@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

As you may already know IPv4 addresses are running out.  At this time
it's predicted that Asia/Pacific will run out sometime in the next 6
months; Europe and North America will soon follow.  The successor to
IPv4, is IPv6 and will soon be required to access all of the internet.

We'd like to invite you, and your group, to the IPv6 Summit scheduled
for April 29th, and held at the University of Ottawa.  The summit will
serve as an introduction to IPv6 specific issues for people that
setup, debug, and manage network infrastructure. We are planning a
full day event with an intro/business-case stream, a technical stream,
and a "demo" room where people can test their portable equipment's
IPv6 compatibility.

The conference is still open for speaker submissions and we'd welcome
topics that may relate to IPv6 and your groups specialty.

More information can be found on our official website
http://ipv6summit.ca (available over IPv6).  You're also invited to
follow us on twitter, identi.ca, and facebook.

See you in April.

- The Ottawa IPv6 Summit Organizing Team
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