From george at metaart.org Fri Oct 1 19:43:19 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Fri Oct 1 19:34:43 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 1 Message-ID: <200410011743.19827.george@metaart.org> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 1 Date: Friday 01 October 2004 11:25 am From: Marsee Henon ... ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members October 1, 2004 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop -XML in a Nutshell, 3rd Edition -Adobe InDesign CS One-on-One -Adobe Encore DVD: In the Studio -Building the Perfect PC -Head First Servlets & JSP -Java Threads, 3rd Edition ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Peter Morville ("Information Architecture for the World Wide Web") Information Architecture & Findability Seminar, San Francisco, CA--October 25 -Dru Lavigne ("BSD Hacks"), EuroBSDCon, Karlsruhe, Germany-- October 27-November 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference, Santa Clara, CA--October 25-28 -Call for Participation: The MySQL Users Conference-- Proposals are due by November 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -O'Reilly Now Distributes SitePoint Web Development Books -Hacking PayPal -The New Bloglines Web Services -O'Reilly's New Magazine for Technology Projects--"Make" -Move Beyond Amateur Filmmaking -O'Reilly Digital Media Professionals Directory -Open Source Content Management with Plone -FreeBSD Bag of Tricks -Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses -Introduction to Quartz 2D for QuickDraw Programmers -Top Ten Tips for Mac OS X Con 2004 -Troubleshooting Printer Problems -Master Pages in ASP.NET -Reporting Application Errors by Email -Groovy, Java's New Scripting Language ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone (800-998-9938). http://www.oreilly.com/ ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007523 "Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop" is the ideal guide to JDS: it's clear and direct, but loaded with insights from authors who have spent time working with, supporting, and enhancing the system. The book carefully covers such housekeeping chores as setting up networking, updates, and backups. It enters into great depth concerning the key productivity tools every user needs: email, web browsing, instant messaging, word processing, spreadsheets, and slide presentations. And it includes chapters and appendices on useful tools and system add-ons. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jds/ Chapter 4, "JDS Networking," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jds/chapter/index.html ***XML in a Nutshell, 3rd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007647 There's a lot to know about XML, and it's constantly evolving. But you don't need to commit every syntax, API, or XSLT transformation to memory; you only need to know where to find it. This powerful new edition is the comprehensive XML reference. Serious users of XML will find coverage on just about everything they need, from fundamental syntax rules, to details of DTD and XML Schema creation, to XSLT transformations, to APIs used for processing XML documents. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xmlnut3/ Chapter 9, "XPath," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xmlnut3/chapter/index.html ***Adobe InDesign CS One-on-One Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007361 Adobe InDesign is widely regarded as the page layout/publishing program for the new millennium. In this book, Adobe-certified expert Deke McClelland guides you, at your own pace, through twelve step-by-step lessons that are packed with entertaining and informative real-world projects. There are more than 500 full-color photos, diagrams, and screen shots, as well as tips and tricks for tapping into InDesign's most powerful capabilities. Also included are two hours of video instruction on CD that will help you master fundamental and advanced concepts, best practices, and techniques. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobeindesign/ ***Adobe Encore DVD: In the Studio Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006004 If you're looking for a stimulating way to master Adobe Encore DVD and fine-tune your moviemaking skills, here it is. This full-color tutorial will help you push the limits of Adobe Encore DVD by helping you create highly imaginative designs and projects. Designed for Adobe Creative Suite developers and filmmakers, this book combines practical learning materials and project-based lessons. With this comprehensive tutorial, you'll be able to quickly develop professional-looking DVDs studded with special effects worthy of a Hollywood studio. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobedvd/ Chapter 2, "Deconstructing DVDs," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobedvd/chapter/ch02.pdf ***Building the Perfect PC Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006632 For many computer users, a ready-made system is about as satisfying as a frozen microwave dinner: sure, it works, but it's not exactly what you need or want. Don't accept the assortment of components bundled for your price point; build your own PC. With straightforward language, clear end-to-end instructions, and extensive illustrations, this book covers a variety of complete systems and their components. Regardless of your experience, you can take control and create your ideal machine. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/buildpc/ Chapter 1, "Fundamentals," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/buildpc/chapter/index.html ***Head First Servlets & JSP Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596005407 "Head First Servlets & JSP" will help you truly understand the latest version, J2EE 1.4, of Servlets and JSP. You'll learn how to write Servlets and JSPs, what makes the Container tick, how to use the new JSP Expression Language (EL), and even some server-side design patterns. Written by the creators of the Sun Certified Web Component Developer (SCWCD) 1.4 exam, this book will help you pass the exam, talk about Struts at dinner parties, and put Servlets and JSP to work right away. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/headservletsjsp/ ***Java Threads, 3rd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007825 The new edition of this classic book shows you how to take full advantage of Java's threading facilities, and it brings you up to date with the significant changes in Java 2 Standard Edition version 5.0 (J2SE 5.0). The book incorporates the concurrency utilities from java.util.concurrent, and new chapters cover thread performance, using threads with Swing, threads and Collection classes, thread pools, and threads and I/O. Get a thorough, step-by-step approach to threads programming. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jthreads3/ Chapter 5, "Minimal Synchronization Techniques," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jthreads3/chapter/index.html ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Peter Morville ("Information Architecture for the World Wide Web"), Information Architecture & Findability Seminar, San Francisco, CA--October 25 Peter leads a new full-day seminar on information architecture from top to bottom, explaining how search and navigation systems can be designed to support and shape user behavior. http://semanticstudios.com/presentations/iaf/ ***Dru Lavigne ("BSD Hacks"), EuroBSDCon, Karlsruhe, Germany-- October 27-November 2 Dru discusses "But I'm not a developer...how can I contribute to open source?" http://2004.eurobsdcon.org/ ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference, Santa Clara, CA--October 25-28 This conference brings together what you need to know and what you want to experience. You'll learn how to solve the day to day problems of connected computing, leverage the power of scripting, improve the performance of your network, and protect your systems from intrusion. You'll also get up to speed on grid computing, home automation, streaming media, how to build your own TV studio, and much more. Use code DSUG when you register and receive 20% off conference pricing. To register, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/macosx2004/create/ord_mac04 O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference October 25-28, 2004 Westin Santa Clara, Santa Clara, CA http://conferences.oreilly.com/macosxcon/ ***Call for Participation: The MySQL Users Conference-- Proposals are due by November 1 >From embedded solutions to web-commerce and critical business applications, MySQL is everywhere--with more than five million active installations worldwide. To introduce new users to MySQL and help developers and IT professionals keep pace with the latest advancements, MySQL AB has teamed up with O'Reilly Media, Inc. to co-present the third annual MySQL Users Conference, scheduled for April 18-21, 2005, in Santa Clara, CA. For complete conference details visit: http://www.mysqluc.com Visit the submissions page for all the details on tracks and proposal guidelines--this year's theme is "MySQL Everywhere." Proposals are due no later than November 1, 2004. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/mysqluc2005/create/e_sess ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***O'Reilly Now Distributes SitePoint Web Development Books We're now the exclusive distributor of SitePoint Pty. Ltd.'s books in North America, launching SitePoint books into the retail channel, providing direct sales, warehousing and shipping, plus direct marketing and PR support. Founded by Matt Mickiewicz and Mark Harbottle, SitePoint has enjoyed great success as one of the first online resources for web developers and designers. Today, 1.8 million visitors a month peruse their forums, articles, and blogs. The company launched their book publishing program in September 2001, has six popular titles in print, and is planning to double the number of in-print titles in the coming year. SitePoint books will be available in North American bookstores as early as October 2004. For a list of current and upcoming books, see: http://sitepoint.oreilly.com/ SitePoint's "Around the World" competition asked SitePoint book customers to submit photos of themselves with their favourite SitePoint book in exotic locales, with famous people or local landmarks. The top of Mt. Fuji, Acropolis, Equator, set of NBC News, and the Austrian Alps are just a few of the locations that SitePoint customers took pictures of with their books in order for a chance to win an Apple iPod. To view entries and winners, go to: http://www.sitepoint.com/competition/ipod_competition/ipod_win_21-09-04.php ***Hacking PayPal Here are two hacks designed to make PayPal more customer-friendly, profitable, and accountable, plus an additional hack to catch Instant Payment Notification (IPN) system errors. Get all the tools and details you need to make PayPal more profitable, more flexible, and more convenient from "PayPal Hacks." http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/excerpt/paypalhacks_chap1/index.ht ml ***The New Bloglines Web Services Marc Hedlund takes a look at the new Bloglines Web Services APIs and their effect on the RSS/Atom landscape, and presents a complete, three-pane desktop RSS/Atom reader written in just 150 lines of code with the Groovy programming language. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/09/28/bloglines.html ***O'Reilly's New Magazine for Technology Projects--"Make" "Make" is due out in January 2005, is loaded with exciting projects that help you make the most of your technology at home and away from home. http://make.oreilly.com We've received many suggestions about how we can turn "Make" into a great magazine. But there's still time for you to give us your input. Here are some ways you can join us in the creation of this magazine: 1. The "Make" Workshop--Imagine somebody took all your tools away and handed you a $100 gift certificate that you could spend on hardware at your local big box hardware store. What are the essential things you'd buy? Now, up the price to $300--what would you outfit your workshop with? How about $750? 2. What Are You Using These Days?--In each issue we'll run reviews of stuff. We're interested in hearing about the things you already use and love. Tell us about your favorite new (or old!) tool, magazine, book, instructional video, gadget, web site, etc. in a 300-word email. If we decide to run it, we'll pay you. 3. Projects--Do you have an idea for a technology-related project? It doesn't matter if it's large or small. Tell us about it. If we like it, we'll ask you to write it. You can send email suggestions to marsee@oreilly.com and please include "Make Magazine" in the subject line field. --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Move Beyond Amateur Filmmaking The jump from casual video recording to professional filmmaking requires more steps than many artists realize. Sonoma County filmmaker Susan Boyer walks you through the paces in this illuminating article. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2004/09/29/filmmaking.html ***O'Reilly Digital Media Professionals Directory Check out our new nationwide directory of photographers, musicians, and filmmakers. Here's where you can browse our directory, find and rate professionals, and enter your own listings. You must be logged in with your O'Reilly account to create or rate listings. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/dir/index.csp --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Open Source Content Management with Plone Publishing web sites is easy for geeks. When you're tired of your users asking you to make tiny changes that they could easily handle themselves, it's time to consider a content management system (CMS). If you're a Python or Zope fan, you may have heard of Plone, a powerful and easy-to-use CMS. If not, let Brad Bollenbach convince you to give it a try. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/09/23/plone_features.html ***FreeBSD Bag of Tricks Software junkies like Dru Lavigne always file away interesting new programs for their bag of tricks. In this installment of FreeBSD Basics, Dru demonstrates how to use usermin for easy webmail and reveals the convenience and glory of TheOpenCD. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/09/24/FreeBSD_Basics.html ***Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses O'Reilly is offering a 50% discount on the Linux/Unix Certification Series from their O'Reilly Learning Lab. Save nearly $1000 on these online courses--and earn a University of Illinois System Administration Certificate. Every class includes compelling, hands-on content, root access to a Linux server, an online coach, and a free O'Reilly book. Use the code ORALL1 to get your 50% discount. To enroll for the Learning Lab Linux/Unix Certification Series go to: http://oreilly.useractive.com/linuxa/ --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Introduction to Quartz 2D for QuickDraw Programmers Apple is moving from QuickDraw to Quartz for the handling of 2D graphics in Mac OS X. Scott Thompson introduces you to the concepts behind Quartz 2D, and explains how to make the transition from QuickDraw. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/09/28/quartz.html ***Top Ten Tips for Mac OS X Con 2004 The upcoming O'Reilly Mac conference will be different than your typical tech gathering--requiring that you prepare differently, too. Program chair Derrick Story shares his top ten "getting ready" tips for this innovative event. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/09/24/conference_tips.html --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Troubleshooting Printer Problems Not being able to print is rather annoying, for both users and the administrators who come to their aid. Mitch Tulloch shows you how to quickly troubleshoot and solve printing problems. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/09/28/printer_problems.htm l ***Master Pages in ASP.NET On many web sites, it is important to achieve a consistent "look and feel" as the user moves from page to page. While this was possible with .NET 1.1, it was difficult and required both programmer and designer discipline. ASP.NET 2.0 makes this far easier with the creation of master pages. Jesse Liberty shows you how master pages work in ASP.NET 2.0. http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2004/09/27/libertyonwhidbey.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Reporting Application Errors by Email Even if your application logs an error to a local file, the developer doesn't know there's a problem until a user notices it and sends the log file back. It can be more useful for apps to email their own error messages back. And as Sean C. Sullivan explains, it's not hard to do with either log4j or java.util.logging. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/09/29/smtp-logging.html ***Groovy, Java's New Scripting Language When experienced Java developers hear about Groovy, their first reaction is often, "Oh, no, not another scripting language for Java." Ian Darwin had the same reaction, until he took a good look at Groovy. Ian is the author of "Java Cookbook, 2nd Edition." http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/09/29/groovy.html ================================================ O'Reilly User Group Wiki ================================================ Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups across the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time-- Marsee ------------------------------------------------------- From george at metaart.org Mon Oct 4 23:14:35 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Oct 4 23:05:42 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Request for Perl & Linux Humor Message-ID: <200410042114.35384.george@metaart.org> reference: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi?FunStuff The FunStuff page of the O'Reilly UG Program wiki could use some more Perl humor and doesn't have much Linux humor. Any suggestions for inclusion would be appreciated. From david at fetter.org Tue Oct 5 09:42:22 2004 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Tue Oct 5 09:42:25 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Request for Perl & Linux Humor In-Reply-To: <200410042114.35384.george@metaart.org> References: <200410042114.35384.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <20041005144222.GA14107@fetter.org> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 09:14:35PM -0700, George Woolley wrote: > reference: > http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi?FunStuff > > The FunStuff page of the O'Reilly UG Program wiki > could use some more Perl humor > and doesn't have much Linux humor. > Any suggestions for inclusion would be appreciated. One day while riding bicycle my on my way to work at Match.com, I was passing a very odd-looking Muni bus. The thing was off-kilter in some obvious but indefinable way. Just as I passed it, a mostly-eaten apple flew out of it and bounced off my face. I was so surprised, I turned around and looked at the display on its front panel. Suddenly, I was enlightened. It said: Bus error: core dumped Cheers, D -- David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 510 893 6100 mobile: +1 415 235 3778 Remember to vote! From george at metaart.org Tue Oct 5 19:01:58 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Tue Oct 5 18:53:01 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Request for Perl & Linux Humor In-Reply-To: <20041005144222.GA14107@fetter.org> References: <200410042114.35384.george@metaart.org> <20041005144222.GA14107@fetter.org> Message-ID: <200410051701.58840.george@metaart.org> Thanks, David. George Anyone else? On Tuesday 05 October 2004 7:42 am, David Fetter wrote: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 09:14:35PM -0700, George Woolley wrote: > > reference: > > http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi?FunStuff > > > > The FunStuff page of the O'Reilly UG Program wiki > > could use some more Perl humor > > and doesn't have much Linux humor. > > Any suggestions for inclusion would be appreciated. > > One day while riding bicycle my on my way to work at Match.com, I was > passing a very odd-looking Muni bus. The thing was off-kilter in some > obvious but indefinable way. Just as I passed it, a mostly-eaten > apple flew out of it and bounced off my face. I was so surprised, I > turned around and looked at the display on its front panel. Suddenly, > I was enlightened. It said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bus error: core dumped > > Cheers, > D From kester at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 17:26:56 2004 From: kester at gmail.com (Kester Allen) Date: Wed Oct 6 17:27:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification In-Reply-To: <200410061408.30761.george@metaart.org> References: <200410061408.30761.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Oakland.pm! Greetings from a new subscriber and new Oakland resident. I learned of the group through a combination of perlmonks.org (*.pm groups exist!) and google (there's one in Oakland!). I'm interested in learning about new developments in Perl (especially Perl6), and getting advice about module configuration in the Win32 world, to which I have been exiled at work. My Perl background is centered around website-scraping and scientific computing, primarily with WWW::Mechanize and PDL, respectively. Looking forward to meeting you all! --Kester Allen On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:08:30 -0700, George Woolley wrote: > Hello Kester, > Glad you subscribed to the Oakland.pm mailing list. > Welcome! > > This is a personal message > from an actual human being. > > Often new subscribers introduce themselves > on the Oakland.pm list. > This seems to work quite well. > Please feel free to do so, if that suits you. > But not everyone chooses to do that. > For sure, > feel free to not introduce yourself, > if you prefer. > > Please feel free to post to the list anything > connected to Perl or the group. > And you may take "connected" here broadly. > As an alternative, > you are welcome to send > your questions, concerns, insights, etc. > to me via personal email. > > Oakland.pm has been having meetings on 2nd Tuesdays. > There's an announcement for the next meeting > on the oakland.pm website at http://oakland.pm.org/ > Here's a short version of what it says there: > Tu October 12 eve in Oakland > If you are thinking of coming > and have any questions or concerns, > let me know. > > Our meetings usually begin with brief introductions > of themselves by each of the people present. > It would be fine to pass on that, > though I don't recall anyone ever doing so. > > Anyway, welcome! > > Best wishes, > George > > P.S. If you feel like saying, > I'd be most interested to hear: > * how you learned of our group? > * what you wish from the group? > From mruggiero at formfactor.com Wed Oct 6 18:26:36 2004 From: mruggiero at formfactor.com (Michael Ruggiero) Date: Wed Oct 6 18:38:16 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification Message-ID: <81E9E591B71B614888AB1E1D923DA385032C6508@EMAIL.formfactor.com> Greetings Kester: as a Win32 Perl user, I found this Perl Monks thread helpful about ASPN modules that don't install correctly: http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=270846 This may not be an issue for you... it has for me... --mr -----Original Message----- From: oakland-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:oakland-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Kester Allen Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 3:27 PM To: oakland@mail.pm.org; george@metaart.org Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification Hello, Oakland.pm! Greetings from a new subscriber and new Oakland resident. I learned of the group through a combination of perlmonks.org (*.pm groups exist!) and google (there's one in Oakland!). I'm interested in learning about new developments in Perl (especially Perl6), and getting advice about module configuration in the Win32 world, to which I have been exiled at work. My Perl background is centered around website-scraping and scientific computing, primarily with WWW::Mechanize and PDL, respectively. Looking forward to meeting you all! --Kester Allen On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:08:30 -0700, George Woolley wrote: > Hello Kester, > Glad you subscribed to the Oakland.pm mailing list. > Welcome! > > This is a personal message > from an actual human being. > > Often new subscribers introduce themselves > on the Oakland.pm list. > This seems to work quite well. > Please feel free to do so, if that suits you. > But not everyone chooses to do that. > For sure, > feel free to not introduce yourself, > if you prefer. > > Please feel free to post to the list anything > connected to Perl or the group. > And you may take "connected" here broadly. > As an alternative, > you are welcome to send > your questions, concerns, insights, etc. > to me via personal email. > > Oakland.pm has been having meetings on 2nd Tuesdays. > There's an announcement for the next meeting > on the oakland.pm website at http://oakland.pm.org/ > Here's a short version of what it says there: > Tu October 12 eve in Oakland > If you are thinking of coming > and have any questions or concerns, > let me know. > > Our meetings usually begin with brief introductions > of themselves by each of the people present. > It would be fine to pass on that, > though I don't recall anyone ever doing so. > > Anyway, welcome! > > Best wishes, > George > > P.S. If you feel like saying, > I'd be most interested to hear: > * how you learned of our group? > * what you wish from the group? > _______________________________________________ Oakland mailing list Oakland@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Wed Oct 6 18:49:49 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Wed Oct 6 18:40:49 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification In-Reply-To: <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <200410061408.30761.george@metaart.org> <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410061649.49376.george@metaart.org> Kester, Well, welcome again. Also, thanks for introducing yourself and answering both my questions. George On Wednesday 06 October 2004 3:26 pm, Kester Allen wrote: > Hello, Oakland.pm! > > Greetings from a new subscriber and new Oakland resident. I learned > of the group through a combination of perlmonks.org (*.pm groups > exist!) and google (there's one in Oakland!). > > I'm interested in learning about new developments in Perl (especially > Perl6), and getting advice about module configuration in the Win32 > world, to which I have been exiled at work. > > My Perl background is centered around website-scraping and scientific > computing, primarily with WWW::Mechanize and PDL, respectively. > > Looking forward to meeting you all! > > --Kester Allen > > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:08:30 -0700, George Woolley wrote: > > Hello Kester, > > Glad you subscribed to the Oakland.pm mailing list. > > Welcome! > > > > This is a personal message > > from an actual human being. > > > > Often new subscribers introduce themselves > > on the Oakland.pm list. > > This seems to work quite well. > > Please feel free to do so, if that suits you. > > But not everyone chooses to do that. > > For sure, > > feel free to not introduce yourself, > > if you prefer. > > > > Please feel free to post to the list anything > > connected to Perl or the group. > > And you may take "connected" here broadly. > > As an alternative, > > you are welcome to send > > your questions, concerns, insights, etc. > > to me via personal email. > > > > Oakland.pm has been having meetings on 2nd Tuesdays. > > There's an announcement for the next meeting > > on the oakland.pm website at http://oakland.pm.org/ > > Here's a short version of what it says there: > > Tu October 12 eve in Oakland > > If you are thinking of coming > > and have any questions or concerns, > > let me know. > > > > Our meetings usually begin with brief introductions > > of themselves by each of the people present. > > It would be fine to pass on that, > > though I don't recall anyone ever doing so. > > > > Anyway, welcome! > > > > Best wishes, > > George > > > > P.S. If you feel like saying, > > I'd be most interested to hear: > > * how you learned of our group? > > * what you wish from the group? > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Wed Oct 6 19:29:34 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Wed Oct 6 19:20:33 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Oakland.pm Meeting: Tue. Oct. 12 Message-ID: <200410061729.34418.george@metaart.org> The October meeting is just 6 days off. Hopefully, Robert will be there so we can say good bye before he heads off to DC. George ............................................. Snip from Oakland.pm home page at http://oakland.pm.org ............................................ Next meeting * when: Tue. Oct. 12 at 7:30-9:30pm (on 2nd Tuesdays since Dec. 2002) * where: Connie's Cantina 3340 Grand Ave., Oakland CA * directions: directions and ascii map * activities: o introductions o giveaways (there's a bunch) o TBD there o eat, drink * who: open to anyone interested. * how much: no fee for our meetings. However, it would be kool if you got something to eat and/or drink. * RSVP: if you want to be sure to have a seat at the Oakland.pm table. From kester at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 21:25:00 2004 From: kester at gmail.com (Kester Allen) Date: Wed Oct 6 21:25:05 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification In-Reply-To: <81E9E591B71B614888AB1E1D923DA385032C6508@EMAIL.formfactor.com> References: <81E9E591B71B614888AB1E1D923DA385032C6508@EMAIL.formfactor.com> Message-ID: <55adb3190410061925aa08ad8@mail.gmail.com> Hi-- Thanks, Michael, I'll check that out. --Kester On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:26:36 -0700, Michael Ruggiero wrote: > Greetings Kester: > > as a Win32 Perl user, I found this Perl Monks thread helpful > about ASPN modules that don't install correctly: > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=270846 > > This may not be an issue for you... it has for me... > --mr > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: oakland-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:oakland-bounces@mail.pm.org]On > Behalf Of Kester Allen > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 3:27 PM > To: oakland@mail.pm.org; george@metaart.org > Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification > > Hello, Oakland.pm! > > Greetings from a new subscriber and new Oakland resident. I learned > of the group through a combination of perlmonks.org (*.pm groups > exist!) and google (there's one in Oakland!). > > I'm interested in learning about new developments in Perl (especially > Perl6), and getting advice about module configuration in the Win32 > world, to which I have been exiled at work. > > My Perl background is centered around website-scraping and scientific > computing, primarily with WWW::Mechanize and PDL, respectively. > > Looking forward to meeting you all! > > --Kester Allen > > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:08:30 -0700, George Woolley wrote: > > Hello Kester, > > Glad you subscribed to the Oakland.pm mailing list. > > Welcome! > > > > This is a personal message > > from an actual human being. > > > > Often new subscribers introduce themselves > > on the Oakland.pm list. > > This seems to work quite well. > > Please feel free to do so, if that suits you. > > But not everyone chooses to do that. > > For sure, > > feel free to not introduce yourself, > > if you prefer. > > > > Please feel free to post to the list anything > > connected to Perl or the group. > > And you may take "connected" here broadly. > > As an alternative, > > you are welcome to send > > your questions, concerns, insights, etc. > > to me via personal email. > > > > Oakland.pm has been having meetings on 2nd Tuesdays. > > There's an announcement for the next meeting > > on the oakland.pm website at http://oakland.pm.org/ > > Here's a short version of what it says there: > > Tu October 12 eve in Oakland > > If you are thinking of coming > > and have any questions or concerns, > > let me know. > > > > Our meetings usually begin with brief introductions > > of themselves by each of the people present. > > It would be fine to pass on that, > > though I don't recall anyone ever doing so. > > > > Anyway, welcome! > > > > Best wishes, > > George > > > > P.S. If you feel like saying, > > I'd be most interested to hear: > > * how you learned of our group? > > * what you wish from the group? > > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > From george at metaart.org Thu Oct 7 13:13:02 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Thu Oct 7 13:03:56 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification > Perl 6 In-Reply-To: <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <200410061408.30761.george@metaart.org> <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410071113.02116.george@metaart.org> On Wednesday 06 October 2004 3:26 pm, you wrote: > Hello, Oakland.pm! > ... > I'm interested in learning about new developments in Perl (especially > Perl6), ... Kester, Have you had a chance to look at the Essentials book on Perl 6 and Parrot or to play with Parrot? Would you like for us to have a meeting with Perl 6 as the theme? Would you be able to speak briefly* on some aspect of Perl 6? (* briefly = say 2-30 minutes) Hey, longer is fine too, but the longer it is, the more important it is for me to know in advance roughly how long. Hm, maybe Steve Fink could talk about Perl 6 rules, or the current status of Perl 6 or something. George Steve, Would you be willing to speak on something Perl 6 related? You determine the subject, length, etc. George All, Anyone interested much in Perl 6? (I, for sure, am.) Anyone willing to say few words about some aspect of Perl 6? George From kester at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 13:33:57 2004 From: kester at gmail.com (Kester Allen) Date: Thu Oct 7 13:35:33 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification > Perl 6 In-Reply-To: <200410071113.02116.george@metaart.org> References: <200410061408.30761.george@metaart.org> <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> <200410071113.02116.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <55adb31904100711332ba87e6e@mail.gmail.com> Hi George-- I haven't had a chance to read the essentials book yet or play with Parrot, which I should definitely get going on :) I've read a couple of the Apocalypses and talked with some people at my last job about it, and not much else. At this point, I don't think I know enough to talk about it beyone the two minute length, but I could probably get up to speed by november or so. --Kester > Kester, > Have you had a chance to look at > the Essentials book on Perl 6 and Parrot > or to play with Parrot? > > Would you like for us to have a meeting > with Perl 6 as the theme? > Would you be able to speak briefly* > on some aspect of Perl 6? > (* briefly = say 2-30 minutes) > Hey, longer is fine too, > but the longer it is, the more important it is > for me to know in advance roughly how long. > > Hm, maybe Steve Fink could talk about Perl 6 rules, > or the current status of Perl 6 or something. > George > > Steve, > Would you be willing to speak on something Perl 6 related? > You determine the subject, length, etc. > George > > All, > Anyone interested much in Perl 6? (I, for sure, am.) > Anyone willing to say few words about some aspect of Perl 6? > George From sfink at reactrix.com Fri Oct 8 18:50:14 2004 From: sfink at reactrix.com (Steve Fink) Date: Fri Oct 8 18:50:46 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification > Perl 6 In-Reply-To: <200410071113.02116.george@metaart.org> References: <200410061408.30761.george@metaart.org> <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> <200410071113.02116.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <416727B6.8090008@reactrix.com> George Woolley wrote: > Kester, > Have you had a chance to look at > the Essentials book on Perl 6 and Parrot > or to play with Parrot? > > Would you like for us to have a meeting > with Perl 6 as the theme? > Would you be able to speak briefly* > on some aspect of Perl 6? > (* briefly = say 2-30 minutes) > Hey, longer is fine too, > but the longer it is, the more important it is > for me to know in advance roughly how long. > > Hm, maybe Steve Fink could talk about Perl 6 rules, > or the current status of Perl 6 or something. > > Steve, > Would you be willing to speak on something Perl 6 related? > You determine the subject, length, etc. > George Sure, I can talk about something. I guess talking about rules would make sense; they're probably the thing I'm most looking forward to. I'll try to stick to how you use them instead of how they're implemented, especially since I haven't seen any more of the new implementation than anyone else. :-) Anyone want to talk about Perl6's roles? I keep hearing about them, but have never figured out exactly what they are nor how they behave. It'd be cool if someone did an hour or three of research into them and reported on them at the meeting. (Easy for me to suggest, since I'm not volunteering!) Or if anyone checked out any of the Perl6:: modules, I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences. From george at metaart.org Mon Oct 11 02:25:37 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Oct 11 02:16:15 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification > Perl 6 In-Reply-To: <200410071113.02116.george@metaart.org> References: <200410061408.30761.george@metaart.org> <55adb31904100615267c1638c9@mail.gmail.com> <200410071113.02116.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200410110025.37374.george@metaart.org> Steve & Kester & anyone else interested in a perl 6 meeting, OK, I'll put discussing a Perl 6 meeting on the agenda for Tuesday. We can talk about when the meeting will be, etc. If you don't make it to the meeting, let me know as soon as you can if you have inputs re such a meeting, <<<<<< especially if you are willing to speak (even briefly) or if you have preferences concerning when the meeting will be. Note that Steve asked if anyone wants to talk about Perl6's roles. That could be a very interesting learning experience for someone. Anyone up for that? <<<<<< Anyone up for talking about anything else Perl 6 related. <<<<<< George ==== Responses to George's Earlier Message ==== _______________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification > Perl 6 Date: Friday 08 October 2004 4:50 pm From: Steve Fink To: Oakland Perl Mongers Sure, I can talk about something. I guess talking about rules would make sense; they're probably the thing I'm most looking forward to. I'll try to stick to how you use them instead of how they're implemented, especially since I haven't seen any more of the new implementation than anyone else. :-) Anyone want to talk about Perl6's roles? I keep hearing about them, but have never figured out exactly what they are nor how they behave. It'd be cool if someone did an hour or three of research into them and reported on them at the meeting. (Easy for me to suggest, since I'm not volunteering!) Or if anyone checked out any of the Perl6:: modules, I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences. _______________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [oak perl] Re: Oakland subscription notification > Perl 6 Date: Thursday 07 October 2004 11:33 am From: Kester Allen To: George Woolley Cc: oakland@mail.pm.org Hi George-- I haven't had a chance to read the essentials book yet or play with Parrot, which I should definitely get going on :) I've read a couple of the Apocalypses and talked with some people at my last job about it, and not much else. At this point, I don't think I know enough to talk about it beyone the two minute length, but I could probably get up to speed by november or so. --Kester _______________________________________________ ==== George's Earlier Message ==== ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: Oakland subscription notification > Perl 6 Date: Thursday 07 October 2004 11:13 am From: George Woolley To: oakland@mail.pm.org, Kester Allen On Wednesday 06 October 2004 3:26 pm, you wrote: > Hello, Oakland.pm! > ... > I'm interested in learning about new developments in Perl (especially > Perl6), ... Kester, Have you had a chance to look at the Essentials book on Perl 6 and Parrot or to play with Parrot? Would you like for us to have a meeting with Perl 6 as the theme? Would you be able to speak briefly* on some aspect of Perl 6? (* briefly = say 2-30 minutes) Hey, longer is fine too, but the longer it is, the more important it is for me to know in advance roughly how long. Hm, maybe Steve Fink could talk about Perl 6 rules, or the current status of Perl 6 or something. George Steve, Would you be willing to speak on something Perl 6 related? You determine the subject, length, etc. George All, Anyone interested much in Perl 6? (I, for sure, am.) Anyone willing to say few words about some aspect of Perl 6? George ------------------------------------------------------- From george at metaart.org Mon Oct 11 03:03:33 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Oct 11 02:54:14 2004 Subject: [oak perl] October Meeting - seating Message-ID: <200410110103.33738.george@metaart.org> My plan is to ask for seating for everyone who said yes they are coming. If you show up on time, likely we can get you at our table regardless of what you said (though we might have to move to a different table). The reason I'm talking about this at all is because an unusual number of people said they will or might be coming this month (and there are more mights than wills). We could have a problem. Anyway, if any of you can conveniently change your answer from maybe or likely to yes that would help. Also, showing up before (at or very close to) 7:30pm would make a difference. Anyway, see some of you there. George From mtheo at amural.com Mon Oct 11 12:15:35 2004 From: mtheo at amural.com (Mark Theodoropoulos) Date: Mon Oct 11 12:15:38 2004 Subject: [oak perl] October Meeting - seating In-Reply-To: <200410110103.33738.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> > Anyway, if any of you can conveniently change your answer from maybe > or likely to yes that would help. My 'likely' is now a yes, and I can provide rides for up to three from Berkeley or North Oakland. I'm coming from the environs of San Pablo Park; it would be helpful to have the passenger list by, say, 6:30 pm Tuesday in order to apply the advanced neural-network processing phase of my route-planning algorithm. (That's the phase where, if there's an unfamiliar address, I apply dual high-resolution optical sensors to the triple-A map, combine the images received with previously stored data on Berkeley traffic barriers, and await the results yielded when wetware processing stabilizes.) Reply off list or leave msg at 510 848 4806. Mark Theodoropoulos -- producer / classics without walls the anti-warhorse zone / www.amural.com kusf 90.3fm / san francisco From extasia at extasia.org Mon Oct 11 18:10:23 2004 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Oct 11 18:10:26 2004 Subject: [oak perl] SIG-BEER-WEST: Saturday 10/16 at 6:00pm in San Francisco Message-ID: <20041011161023.A3942@gerasimov.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 SIG-beer-west http://extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Saturday, October 16, 2004 at 6:00 pm San Francisco Bay area, CA Beer. Mental stimulation. This event: Saturday, 10/16/2004, 6:00 pm, at [1]Zeitgeist Bar and Guest Haus, San Francisco [1] http://www.sonic.net/~wwpints/zeitgeist/ Coming events (third Saturdays): Saturday, 11/20/2004, 6:00 pm, location to be determined Saturday, 12/18/2004, 6:00 pm, location to be determined Saturday, 01/15/2005, 6:00 pm, location to be determined Saturday, 02/19/2005, 6:00 pm, location to be determined The San Francisco Bay area's next social event for techies and their friends, sig-beer-west, will take place at 6:00 pm on Saturday, October 16, 2004 at [2]Zeitgeist Bar and Guest Haus located at [3]199 Valencia at Duboce in San Francisco, CA. [2] http://www.sonic.net/~wwpints/zeitgeist/ [3] http://tinyurl.com/2hacx According to their website, Zeitgeist has: [4]plenty of drafts, mostly micro-brewed beers, a good selection of call liquors, a beer garden, and hotel accomodation [4] http://www.sonic.net/~wwpints/zeitgeist/#Beers Concerning food, they say: the grill opens around 6.00 p.m. each day and closes when everyone's fed (or Aundre's fed up) Zeitgeist is on the [5]corner of Valencia and Duboce and [6]looks like this. It's [7]three blocks from the 16th St BART station (16th St and Mission). [5] http://tinyurl.com/2hacx [6] http://www.sonic.net/~wwpints/zeitgeist/exterior.html [7] http://tinyurl.com/3f8mp Festivities will start at 6:00pm and continue until we've all left. When you show up, you should look for some kind of home made sig-beer-west sign. We will try to make it obvious who we are. :-) Note: Please look for the sig-beer-west sign, not for a particular person. sig-beer-west may have different hosts from month to month. Everyone is welcome at this event. We mean it! Please feel free to forward this information and to invite friends, co-workers, and others (all of legal drinking age) who might enjoy lifting a glass with interesting folks from all over the place. Can't come this month? Mark your calendar for next month. (Do it now before you forget!) sig-beer-west occurs on the third Saturday of each month. Want to suggest a venue? Suggestions for new places to sip and gab are always welcome. Have questions, comments, or other ideas concerning sig-beer-west? Send all correspondence to the current sig-beer-west Instigator. The Instigator's handle is extasia. The Instigator's email address is <*the handle*> at <*the handle*> dot <*org*>. A subject beginning with "sbw: " will increase the chances that the Instigator's spam filters don't molest your message. sig-beer-west FAQ 1. Q: Your announcement says "techies and their friends". How do I know if I'm a techie, or a friend of one? A: Well, actually, you don't have to be a techie to attend. You just have to be able to find the sig-beer-west sign at this month's event. That's it. Simple, huh? 2. Q: I'm not really a beer person. In fact I'm interested in hanging out, but not in drinking. Would I be welcome? A: Absolutely! The point is to hang out with fun, interesting folks. Please do join us. 3. Q: Is parking difficult, like maybe I should factor this into my travel time? A: Absolutely. The earlier you arrive, the better your chances of finding a spot. Note for June 2004: Zeitgeist is [8]three blocks from 16th St BART. You may want to consider [9]BARTing and not worrying at all about parking. [8] http://tinyurl.com/3f8mp [9] http://www.bart.gov/ 4. Q: I've been thinking about attending sig-beer-west for some time now. Maybe I should start with this event? A: Yes!! ______________________________________________________________________ sig-beer-west was started in February 2002 when a couple Washington, D.C. based systems administrators who moved to the San Francisco Bay area wanted to continue a [10]dc-sage tradition, sig-beer, which is described in dc-sage web space as: SIG-beer, as in "Special Interest Group - Beer" ala ACM, or as in "send the BEER signal to that process". The original SIG-beer gathering takes place in Washington DC, usually on the first Saturday night of the month. [10] http://www.dc-sage.org/ ______________________________________________________________________ Last modified: $Date: 2004/10/11 22:49:55 $ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBaxHmPh0M9c/OpdARAraLAKC8R12+q0NTShxwa5mTpAXKZsBwZACeMw49 vUvdobxRKEO+arE/w/aWjDw= =XroV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george at metaart.org Mon Oct 11 19:53:37 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Oct 11 19:46:25 2004 Subject: [oak perl] October Meeting - seating In-Reply-To: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> References: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> Message-ID: <200410111753.37920.george@metaart.org> Mark, re clear yes for meeting: Thanks for responding to my message. That helps. Also, glad you'll be there. [Aside: Thanks to everyone who responded. And a number of people did.] re offer for rides: Excellent! (especially, as a number of people in the group are from around there) re route planning algorithm: Awesome. Hopefully that is or will soon be in the form of a module. ;-) George On Monday 11 October 2004 10:15 am, Mark Theodoropoulos wrote: > > Anyway, if any of you can conveniently change your answer from maybe > > or likely to yes that would help. > > My 'likely' is now a yes, and I can provide rides for up to three from > Berkeley or North Oakland. I'm coming from the environs of San Pablo > Park; it would be helpful to have the passenger list by, say, 6:30 pm > Tuesday in order to apply the advanced neural-network processing phase > of my route-planning algorithm. (That's the phase where, if there's an > unfamiliar address, I apply dual high-resolution optical sensors to the > triple-A map, combine the images received with previously stored data > on Berkeley traffic barriers, and await the results yielded when > wetware processing stabilizes.) > > Reply off list or leave msg at 510 848 4806. > > Mark Theodoropoulos From george at metaart.org Mon Oct 11 20:28:39 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Oct 11 20:19:13 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 and Parrot Humor? Message-ID: <200410111828.39949.george@metaart.org> There was a thread on Perl 6 recently. That got me to thinking, I really am not aware of much Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor. Well, OK, I am aware of: * The Perl 6 book cover at http://stroller.uk.eu.org/Junk/p6_cover.gif and * Programming Parrot at http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/04/01/parrot.htm I enjoyed those. Anyone aware of more such Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor on the web or, for that matter, anywhere?? <<<<<< George From kester at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 21:26:52 2004 From: kester at gmail.com (Kester Allen) Date: Mon Oct 11 21:27:01 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 and Parrot Humor? In-Reply-To: <200410111828.39949.george@metaart.org> References: <200410111828.39949.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <55adb3190410111926509f4073@mail.gmail.com> The "dollar_underscore[0]" structure made me laugh out loud :) On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:28:39 -0700, George Woolley wrote: > There was a thread on Perl 6 recently. > > That got me to thinking, > I really am not aware of much > Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor. > Well, OK, I am aware of: > * The Perl 6 book cover at > http://stroller.uk.eu.org/Junk/p6_cover.gif > and > * Programming Parrot at > http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/04/01/parrot.htm > I enjoyed those. > > Anyone aware of more such > Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor > on the web > or, for that matter, anywhere?? <<<<<< > > George > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > From mp at rawbw.com Tue Oct 12 11:10:13 2004 From: mp at rawbw.com (Michael Paoli) Date: Tue Oct 12 11:10:16 2004 Subject: rides to Berkeley? ([oak perl] October Meeting - seating) In-Reply-To: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> References: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> Message-ID: <1097597413.416c01e5db4bf@webmail.rawbw.com> If you have space available after the meeting, I'd be interested in a ride to Berkeley. I live on Carleton St., about half a block West of Martin Luther King Junior Way. I don't need a ride to the meeting, as I'll be coming in from San Francco via public transporation. Quoting Mark Theodoropoulos : > My 'likely' is now a yes, and I can provide rides for up to three from > Berkeley or North Oakland. I'm coming from the environs of San Pablo > Park; it would be helpful to have the passenger list by, say, 6:30 pm > Tuesday in order to apply the advanced neural-network processing phase > of my route-planning algorithm. (That's the phase where, if there's an > unfamiliar address, I apply dual high-resolution optical sensors to the > triple-A map, combine the images received with previously stored data > on Berkeley traffic barriers, and await the results yielded when > wetware processing stabilizes.) > > Reply off list or leave msg at 510 848 4806. From george at metaart.org Tue Oct 12 12:23:48 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Tue Oct 12 12:14:24 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 and Parrot Humor? In-Reply-To: <55adb3190410111926509f4073@mail.gmail.com> References: <200410111828.39949.george@metaart.org> <55adb3190410111926509f4073@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410121023.48148.george@metaart.org> Kester, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me. If some of you haven't seen dollar_underscore[0], take a look at the example in "Programming Parrot" by Simon Cozens (link in my earlier email -- included below) which also includes: * left_angle_right_angle * continue_next * =eq= * and just plain old dollar_underscore George On Monday 11 October 2004 7:26 pm, Kester Allen wrote: > The "dollar_underscore[0]" structure made me laugh out loud :) > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:28:39 -0700, George Woolley wrote: > > There was a thread on Perl 6 recently. > > > > That got me to thinking, > > I really am not aware of much > > Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor. > > Well, OK, I am aware of: > > * The Perl 6 book cover at > > http://stroller.uk.eu.org/Junk/p6_cover.gif > > and > > * Programming Parrot at > > http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/04/01/parrot.htm > > I enjoyed those. > > > > Anyone aware of more such > > Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor > > on the web > > or, for that matter, anywhere?? <<<<<< > > > > George From blyman at iii.com Tue Oct 12 13:44:15 2004 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Tue Oct 12 13:43:54 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 and Parrot Humor? In-Reply-To: <200410121023.48148.george@metaart.org> References: <200410111828.39949.george@metaart.org> <55adb3190410111926509f4073@mail.gmail.com> <200410121023.48148.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <1097606655.22922.12.camel@ls104> For me the really funny part about this is that Cozens' original article "Programming Parrot" was an April Fool's joke, featuring a fictitious interview with the inventors of Perl and Python. Aside from Parrot being born out of a joke, another good one that's made it into perl6 is "ponie". http://tinyurl.com/4qrmj It could be worse. London.pm could have requested that Larry call it Buffy :) Belden On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 10:23, George Woolley wrote: > Kester, I'd forgotten about that. > Thanks for reminding me. > > If some of you > haven't seen dollar_underscore[0], > take a look at the example in > "Programming Parrot" by Simon Cozens > (link in my earlier email -- included below) > which also includes: > * left_angle_right_angle > * continue_next > * =eq= > * and just plain old dollar_underscore > > George > > On Monday 11 October 2004 7:26 pm, Kester Allen wrote: > > The "dollar_underscore[0]" structure made me laugh out loud :) > > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:28:39 -0700, George Woolley > wrote: > > > There was a thread on Perl 6 recently. > > > > > > That got me to thinking, > > > I really am not aware of much > > > Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor. > > > Well, OK, I am aware of: > > > * The Perl 6 book cover at > > > http://stroller.uk.eu.org/Junk/p6_cover.gif > > > and > > > * Programming Parrot at > > > http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/04/01/parrot.htm > > > I enjoyed those. > > > > > > Anyone aware of more such > > > Perl 6 and/or Parrot humor > > > on the web > > > or, for that matter, anywhere?? <<<<<< > > > > > > George > > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Fri Oct 15 20:28:45 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Fri Oct 15 20:18:58 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Review of "Beginning Perl" - completed Message-ID: <200410151828.45861.george@metaart.org> There's a review of "Beginning Perl", Second Edition by James Lee with Simon Cozens and Peter Wainwright on our site at http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/apress_perlbeg.html George From george at metaart.org Sat Oct 16 00:22:33 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sat Oct 16 00:12:47 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Your Profile on the Oakland.pm Site? In-Reply-To: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> References: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> Message-ID: <200410152222.33676.george@metaart.org> Mark, If you like the idea & are up for it, it would be kool if you created a brief profile for yourself like those at http://oakland.pm.org/detail/members.html George P.S. Let me know if you have any questions. From george at metaart.org Sat Oct 16 00:40:44 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sat Oct 16 00:30:58 2004 Subject: [oak perl] New Member Profiles? Updates? Message-ID: <200410152240.44423.george@metaart.org> reference: http://oakland.pm.org/detail/members.html If you would like to have a member profile on Oakland.pm similar to those at the page referenced above, let me know. <<< Also, if you have updates (or corrections or whatever) to an existing profile, let me know. <<< George From cajun at cajuninc.com Sat Oct 16 00:32:44 2004 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M. Lewis) Date: Sat Oct 16 00:32:45 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Your Profile on the Oakland.pm Site? In-Reply-To: <200410152222.33676.george@metaart.org> References: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> <200410152222.33676.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200410152232.44167.cajun@cajuninc.com> I think you mis-addressed this..... On Friday 15 October 2004 22:22, George Woolley wrote: > Mark, > If you like the idea & are up for it, it would be kool > if you created a brief profile for yourself > like those at http://oakland.pm.org/detail/members.html > George > > P.S. Let me know if you have any questions. > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected. (6/72) 22:30:00 up 20:52, 7 users, load average: 0.82, 0.57, 0.48 From george at metaart.org Sat Oct 16 00:49:12 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sat Oct 16 00:39:26 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Your Profile on the Oakland.pm Site? In-Reply-To: <200410152232.44167.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <416A5D47.20536.E64B804@localhost> <200410152222.33676.george@metaart.org> <200410152232.44167.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200410152249.12458.george@metaart.org> Mike, You are correct. I've since, sent Mark personal email. Hm, got any updates to your profile. I could add to the first column [moving to Louisiana] [and then to Panama] if you wish. George On Friday 15 October 2004 10:32 pm, M. Lewis wrote: > I think you mis-addressed this..... > > On Friday 15 October 2004 22:22, George Woolley wrote: > > Mark, > > If you like the idea & are up for it, it would be kool > > if you created a brief profile for yourself > > like those at http://oakland.pm.org/detail/members.html > > George > > > > P.S. Let me know if you have any questions. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From tmonroe+pm at nog.net Mon Oct 18 15:39:31 2004 From: tmonroe+pm at nog.net (Tony Monroe) Date: Mon Oct 18 21:30:17 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 article Message-ID: <20041018203931.GA26349@ethics-gradient.nog.net> Here's an article written by someone who doesn't like the way Perl 6 is headed. http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/ It's not a short read (based on the scroll widget on my browser). It might even be on-topic here. :-) -- tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/oakland/attachments/20041018/62e3e5a6/attachment.bin From zed.lopez at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 22:52:15 2004 From: zed.lopez at gmail.com (Zed Lopez) Date: Mon Oct 18 22:52:18 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 article In-Reply-To: <20041018203931.GA26349@ethics-gradient.nog.net> References: <20041018203931.GA26349@ethics-gradient.nog.net> Message-ID: <83a996de04101820522fbc6f01@mail.gmail.com> Most of the length of the page is the comments, not the article. Dude's only got 3 points, only one of which I consider to have any merit. 1) I can't understand the Apocalypses, therefore Perl 6 is too confusing. (Whatever.) 2) Perl 6 will be incompatible with Perl 5, and that's a catastrophe. (The incompatibility is true, and it will be a pain in the butt in a bunch of ways. But Perl 5 has a bunch of gotchas that are easy to point to, especially in its OOP support. Python and Ruby will squeeze us out without Perl 6. I don't think there'll be much of a Perl 5 codebase to protect in the long run if Perl were to follow his incremental plan.) 3) Perl 6 is too complex -- no one will want to learn all that stuff, and half of it's probably irrelevant anyway. (Rehash of accusation against Perl 5. Perl programmers don't know how to take advantage of the new features yet because they haven't been in our toolbox and we don't know how to think in terms of them yet. I'm sure we'll end up making daily use of several things that seem of only academic interest right now. Closures didn't seem all that useful to me at first, either.) On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:39:31 -0700, Tony Monroe wrote: > Here's an article written by someone who doesn't like the way Perl > 6 is headed. > > http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/ From mp at rawbw.com Thu Oct 21 00:33:04 2004 From: mp at rawbw.com (Michael Paoli) Date: Thu Oct 21 00:33:06 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Random Perl quote Message-ID: <1098336784.41774a10a4a05@webmail.rawbw.com> >From an e-mail interview with Rob Pike. " 8) One tool for one job? - by sczimme Given the nature of current operating systems and applications, do you think the idea of "one tool doing one job well" has been abandoned? If so, do you think a return to this model would help bring some innovation back to software development? (It's easier to toss a small, single-purpose app and start over than it is to toss a large, feature-laden app and start over.) Pike: Those days are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl. " references: The Interview: http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/18/1153211&tid=189&tid=156&tid=130&tid=11 Rob Pike: http://herpolhode.com/rob/ From george at metaart.org Thu Oct 21 19:26:09 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Thu Oct 21 19:16:01 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 21 Message-ID: <200410211726.09993.george@metaart.org> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 21 Date: Thursday 21 October 2004 1:59 pm From: Marsee Henon ... ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members October 21, 2004 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -iPod and iTunes Hacks -JUnit Pocket Guide -SELinux -SWT: A Developer's Notebook -Build Your Own Database Driven Website Using PHP and MySQL, 3rd Edition -Real World Web Services -iPod Fan Book -Modding Mac OS X -SQL in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition -Mac OS X Power Hound, Panther Edition -Windows XP Power Hound ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Dan Gillmor ("We The Media"), Barnes & Noble, San Jose--November 4 -MySQL ComCon Europe, Germany Frankfurt-- November 9-10 -Niel M. Bornstein (".NET and XML"), XML 2004 Conference and Exposition, Washington, DC--November 15-19 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Attending the O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference? Come Join Us! -Last Chance to Register for O'Reilly's Mac OS X Conference -Call for Participation: The MySQL Users Conference-- Proposals are due by November 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Enter for a Chance to Win Top-of-the-Line Components So You Can Build Your Own Perfect PC -Point-and-Click Phishing -Google Your Desktop -Turning the Tables Using CSS -Displaying Pocket PC and Smartphone Screens on Your PC -Storming the Microsoft Edifice -Seven Cool Mono Apps -Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses -Mac OS X Power Hound Helpful Hints, Part 1 -TenCon Fly-by -Extend your AirPort Network with AirPort Express -Power Hound Tips for Online Protection -Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 1 -Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 2 -An Introduction to Aspect-Oriented Programming with the Spring Framework, Part 2 -Create and Read J2SE 5.0 Annotations with the ASM Bytecode Toolkit ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. http://www.oreilly.com/ ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***iPod and iTunes Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007787 Some people are content to use their iPods simply to play music. Some of the curious and clever among us want to do much more. If you want to get under the hood and tap every iPod trick available, this book will take you beyond the obvious with 100 undocumented tips, tricks, and trade secrets that will delight, entertain, and add astonishing power to your iPod and iTunes experience. Explore, experiment, create shortcuts, and unearth cool and unexpected things. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ipodtuneshks 10 sample hacks are available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ipodtuneshks/chapter/index.html ***JUnit Pocket Guide Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007434 While there are bits of documentation all over the place, there is no go-to manual that serves as a quick reference for JUnit. Until now. This Pocket Guide meets that need, bringing together all the hard-to-remember information, syntax, and rules for working with JUnit, as well as delivering the insight and sage advice that can only come from a technology's creator. Programmers and developers of any level who write Java Code and use JUnit to do their unit testing will find this an indispensable reference. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/junitpg/ ***SELinux Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007167 SELinux covers the wide range of knowledge you need to secure your system with SELinux (Security Enhanced Linux), the security-related extension to Linux that embodies the key advances of the security field. This book covers SELinux concepts and its security model; installation instructions; system and user administration; and understanding, implementing, and developing your own SELinux security policies. With SELinux, a high-security computer is within reach of any system administrator, and this book provides the means. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/selinux/ Chapter 4, "Using and Administering SELinux," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/selinux/chapter/index.html ***SWT: A Developer's Notebook Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596008384 Learn how to take SWT out for a spin, make it work for you, and turn it upside down--without tripping over wasted words and space. Each lab in this notebook details a specific task; you can read from the first page to the last, or look up just what you need to know. And then you can stick this book in your laptop bag so you have a quick reference when you forget how to create a multi-tabbed view. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swtadn/ Chapter 15, "SWT CoolBars," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swtadn/chapter/index.html ***Build Your Own Database Driven Website Using PHP and MySQL, 3rd Edition Publisher: SitePoint ISBN: 0975240218 "Build Your Own Database Driven Website Using PHP and MySQL, 3rd Edition" is a practical guide for first-time users of PHP and MySQL. This bestseller has been updated to reflect best practice web development using PHP 5 and MySQL 4, and it teaches readers by guiding them through the creation of a fully working content management system, shopping cart, and other real-world applications. This new edition also includes more code examples and a bonus chapter on structured PHP programming that introduces techniques for organizing real-world PHP applications. ***Real World Web Services Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600642X The core idea behind this book is simple: after years of hype, what are the major players really doing with web services? Standards bodies may wrangle and platform vendors may preach, but at the end of the day, what are the technologies that are actually in use and how can developers incorporate them into their own applications? The answers are here in this field guide to the wild and wooly world of non-trivial, deployed web services. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/realwws/ Chapter 6, "Project 3: Billing and Faxing," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/realwws/chapter/index.html ***iPod Fan Book Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007760 This compact and beautifully packaged guide is for iPod users who want a quick, fun way to learn all the features and capabilities of the device. It takes readers through the process of loading the iPod with music and then organizing, playing, and even burning those tunes onto CDs and DVDs. The book also discusses ways to use the iPod on the go, such as playing it through a car stereo, and shows how to use the iPod as a PDA for storing things like addresses and personal calendars. The iPod is more than a digital music device; it has become a cultural phenomenon and a fashion statement, and this book is the perfect gift for people living the iPod lifestyle. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ipodfb/ ***Modding Mac OS X Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007094 This book uncovers dozens of ways to customize the user interface for both Mac OS X and its applications, using the newest tools. You'll learn everything from hacking the preferences and enabling and disabling plugins to using the Terminal and applications like the Property List Editor to modify files and edit resources. If you're ready to tweak and experiment, create and refine, customize and control OS X and your applications--and have some fun doing it--this is an indispensable guide. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/modmacosx/ Chapter 3, "Application Dumpster Diving," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/modmacosx/chapter/index.html ***SQL in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596004818 Written for SQL programmers, analysts, and database administrators, this essential desktop reference documents every SQL command and how to use it in both commercial and open source implementations. It includes the command syntax (by vendor, if the syntax differs across implementations), a clear description, and practical examples that illustrate important concepts and uses. It also explains how the leading commercial and open source database products implement SQL. Get the essential data language reference for the world's top SQL database products. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sqlnut2/ Chapter 4, "SQL Functions," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sqlnut2/chapter/index.html ***Mac OS X Power Hound, Panther Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600818X "Mac OS X Power Hound, Panther Edition" lifts the hood on the Formula One-powered operating system and delivers over 500 high-octane secrets in every conceivable category, including the Desktop and Finder, iApps, Mac OS X programs, Mastering the system and Terminal, and much more. Consider this book your pit crew, helping you find easier, faster, and better ways of using Panther and the programs that come with it--and even a bunch that don't. 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This insightful and amusing book is packed with hundreds of power tips, cool tricks, and workarounds in one organized, easy-to-use resource--for everything from the desktop to Office programs to the registry. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/winxppu/ ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***User Group leaders and members attending the O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Come meet up with Marsee Henon (O'Reilly User Group Coordinator) and Lorene Romero (Apple User Group Advisory Board Vendor Relation Coordinator and North Coast Mac Users Group President) on Wednesday, October 27 from 5:00pm to 7:00pm at the bar in the lobby of the Westin Santa Clara. We can swap stories, ideas, or just hang out. And afterwards, we can attend the "Real-Time Filmmaking on Mac OS X" talk. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/macosx2004/view/e_sess/5705 O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference October 25-28, 2004 Westin Santa Clara, Santa Clara, CA http://conferences.oreilly.com/macosxcon/ ***Dan Gillmor ('We The Media"), Barnes & Noble, San Jose--November 4 Don't miss Dan at the Stevens Creek Barnes & Noble starting at 7pm. 3600 Stevens Creek Blvd San Jose, CA 95117 408-984-3495 http://www.barnesandnoble.com/frames/storeLocator/storeLocator_zip.asp?ZIP=95 117&userid=5T4fPFGArd&linkto=shop ***MySQL ComCon Europe, Germany Frankfurt--November 9-10 The MySQL ComCon Europe 2004 brings together the vigor and excitement of a community event (like LinuxTag) with the structure of MySQL mission-critical business event. The conference will take place in Frankfurt from November 9th to 10th and will have a day of pre-conference power workshops on the 8th. Sessions on diverse topics such as "Performance Tuning J2EE Applications deployed on MySQL," "Lowering TCOs for SAP Environments with MaxDB," and a two-part introduction to MySQL Cluster will be presented by MySQL core developers, expert trainers and MySQL community leaders. http://mysqlcomconeurope.com/ ***Niel M. Bornstein (".NET and XML"), XML 2004 Conference and Exposition, Washington, DC--November 15-19 Niel presents a tutorial based on his book at this annual event. Marriott Wardman Park Hotel, Washington, DC. http://www.xmlconference.org/xmlusa/ ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***Last Chance to Register for O'Reilly's Mac OS X Conference Join us for the third annual Mac OS X Conference, October 25-28, 2004, in Santa Clara, California. You'll hear from Stewart Copeland, the former drummer for The Police who now creates award-winning film and television scores using Mac OS X technology; "New York Times" columnist David Pogue; Andy Ihnatko of the "Chicago Sun-Times"; Karelia Sofware's Dan Wood; Brent Simmons of Ranchero Software; Michael Bartosh of 4AM Media; Mac authors Dori Smith, Gordon Meyer, and Ted Landau; and many more. User Group members who use code DSUG when you register receive 20% off conference pricing. To register, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/macosx2004/create/ord_mac04 O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference October 25-28, 2004 Westin Santa Clara, Santa Clara, CA http://conferences.oreilly.com/macosxcon/ ***Call for Participation: The MySQL Users Conference-- Proposals are due by November 1 >From embedded solutions to web-commerce and critical business applications, MySQL is everywhere--with more than five million active installations worldwide. To introduce new users to MySQL and help developers and IT professionals keep pace with the latest advancements, MySQL AB has teamed up with O'Reilly Media, Inc. to co-present the third annual MySQL Users Conference, scheduled for April 18-21, 2005, in Santa Clara, CA. For complete conference details visit: http://www.mysqluc.com Visit the submissions page for all the details on tracks and proposal guidelines--this year's theme is "MySQL Everywhere." 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Brian is the author of O'Reilly's new "Spam Kings." http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/10/13/phishing.html ***Google Your Desktop ...And the rest of your file system, mailbox, and instant messenger conversations--even your browser cache. The Google Desktop is your own private little Google server. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/10/14/google_desktop.html ***Turning the Tables Using CSS Have you noticed web pages loading a bit faster than usual? You might thank Eric Meyer, an expert and author on the subject of cascading style sheets (CSS), a standards-based method of coding web sites. apple.com's Nancy Eaton talks to Eric about the distinct advantages of CSS and the dark days of the browser wars. Eric wrote "Cascading Style Sheets: The Definitive Guide, 2nd Edition." http://www.apple.com/pro/words/meyer/ Cascading Style Sheets: The Definitive Guide, 2nd Edition ISBN: 0596005253 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/css2/ ***Displaying Pocket PC and Smartphone Screens on Your PC Stuck for how to project your Pocket PC in a presentation? Remote Display Control comes to the rescue. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2004/10/15/remote_display.html --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Storming the Microsoft Edifice In the battle for open source and open standards on user desktops, applications such as OpenOffice.org and Mozilla Firefox are stealthily winning small skirmishes. In this article, Sam Hiser describes the situation in terms of Monty Python's "Trojan rabbit." Sam is a coauthor of "Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop." http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/10/14/storming_microsoft_edifi ce.html ***Seven Cool Mono Apps Edd Dumbill takes a look at seven of the cool open source programs being built on Mono. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/10/18/mono.html ***Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses O'Reilly is offering a 50% discount on the Linux/Unix Certification Series from their O'Reilly Learning Lab. Save nearly $1000 on these online courses--and earn a University of Illinois System Administration Certificate. Every class includes compelling, hands-on content, root access to a Linux server, an online coach, and a free O'Reilly book. Use the code ORALL1 to get your 50% discount. To enroll for the Learning Lab Linux/Unix Certification Series go to: http://oreilly.useractive.com/linuxa/ --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Mac OS X Power Hound Helpful Hints, Part 1 Author Rob Griffiths has hand-picked 16 of his favorite hints and organized them into this two-part series. This week, in part one, you'll discover eight tricks to help your Mac OS X system run smoother, and see new ways to personalize your working environment. Examples include activating Expose with a multi-button mouse, saving iTunes Music Store videos and trailers, and customizing the Dock "poof." http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/excerpt/osxph_1004/index.html ***TenCon Fly-by Over the past weeks Derrick Story has been pointing out some of the new content we've added to the O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference. Here's his collection of What's New blurbs and weblogs to create a convenient fly-by of event highlights. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/10/19/tencon_flyby.html ***Extend your AirPort Network with AirPort Express Sometimes one access point just isn't enough for our wireless networks, even at home. Wei Meng Lee shows you how to extend your network with AirPort Express, and explains what's going on under the hood. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/10/12/airport_express.html --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Power Hound Tips for Online Protection The Internet is a dangerous place, and sometimes the dangers come from unexpected quarters. So in addition to taking the usual online precautions, the Power Hound offers some tips about how to protect yourself against dangers you may have never even thought of, excerpted from O'Reilly's newly released Windows XP Power Hound. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/excerpt/winxppu_ch6/index.html ***Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 1 What does it take to build the perfect bleeding-edge PC? First you need to pick the perfect components. From processor to power supply, Bob and Barbara Thompson have assembled their ideal mix of high-performance components that will run on both Linux and Windows. Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 1 http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/10/05/PerfectPC.html ***Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 2 You've gotten all the parts--now it's time for the nitty-gritty of putting it all together. Here are step-by-step instructions for building the PC of your dreams, from Bob and Barbara Thompson, authors of "Building the Perfect PC." http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/10/12/PerfectPC.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***An Introduction to Aspect-Oriented Programming with the Spring Framework, Part 2 Russ Miles continues his introduction to Aspect-Oriented Programming (AOP) in Spring by delving into the around advice, which allows you to not just add to an existing method implementation, but to completely replace it. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/10/20/springaop2.html ***Create and Read J2SE 5.0 Annotations with the ASM Bytecode Toolkit Continuing his examination of the ASM bytecode-manipulation toolkit, Eugene Kuleshov shows how ASM can be used to access J2SE 5.0 attributes, even from earlier JVM versions that don't support attributes. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/10/20/asm.html ================================================ O'Reilly User Group Wiki ================================================ Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups across the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time-- Marsee ------------------------------------------------------- From jseidel at edpci.com Sat Oct 23 17:49:10 2004 From: jseidel at edpci.com (Jon Seidel, CMC) Date: Sun Oct 24 03:11:17 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <200410191700.i9JH0W1f008423@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> Couple of questions regarding Perl on Windows (I know, I know... :) I've been using ActiveState for some time and it's OK. However, since they were purchased, I am wondering about their commitment to the product. So - Question #1: does anyone know of any other ports to Windows and how do they compare to ActiveState? I'd like to find a port where I can just use the CPAN module to install modules (see Question #3 below). Question #2: I've been using the free distribution (I'm on perl 5.8), but I'm wondering if anyone knows if the support from ActiveState improves if you purchase the professional tools (such as Komodo and the Perl Dev Kit)? I'd be willing to buy it for better support and fixes to my problems. (The Visual Perl doesn't interest me in the least). Question #3: I can't get the ActiveState PPM to install modules successfully. I see the modules are on the ActiveState website (e.g., Test::More, Class::DBI), but neither search nor install 'see' them. I've updated the package libraries to use the latest identified on the ActiveState site, but that doesn't help. Any suggestions? Thanks very much! ...jon From blyman at iii.com Mon Oct 25 12:19:40 2004 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Oct 25 12:19:26 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> References: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> Message-ID: <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 15:49, Jon Seidel, CMC wrote: > Couple of questions regarding Perl on Windows (I know, I know... :) > > I've been using ActiveState for some time and it's OK. However, since they > were purchased, I am wondering about their commitment to the product. > I hadn't heard this news... must check it out later! :) > So - Question #1: does anyone know of any other ports to Windows and how do > they compare to ActiveState? I'd like to find a port where I can just use > the CPAN module to install modules (see Question #3 below). > cygwin has a perl binary. From http://www.cygwin.com : Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows. It consists of two parts: * A DLL (cygwin1.dll) which acts as a Linux API emulation layer providing substantial Linux API functionality. * A collection of tools, which provide Linux look and feel. and also google around for 'cygperl'. I've used cygperl + CPAN to install modules. IIRC it was mostly painless, but I may be blocking some trauma :) > Question #2: I've been using the free distribution (I'm on perl 5.8), but > I'm wondering if anyone knows if the support from ActiveState improves if > you purchase the professional tools (such as Komodo and the Perl Dev Kit)? > I'd be willing to buy it for better support and fixes to my problems. (The > Visual Perl doesn't interest me in the least). > I don't have any experience with the perl dev kit. I've got a Personal license for the Komodo IDE which I like quite a bit. The remote graphical debugger paid for the (then-)$30 license the first time I needed it. I don't do much with the regex debugger in Komodo. :( I should. :) > Question #3: I can't get the ActiveState PPM to install modules > successfully. I see the modules are on the ActiveState website (e.g., > Test::More, Class::DBI), but neither search nor install 'see' them. I've > updated the package libraries to use the latest identified on the > ActiveState site, but that doesn't help. > What exactly do you mean here? I suspect that you mean: when you visit the activestate website in your web browser (outbound traffic to port 80), you can see that the modules you want to install are available. But when you attempt to use ppm to install those modules (outbound traffic on port 80, I think?), ppm fails to fetch the software. If this is what you mean, then it sounds like you've got a proxying problem. Are you using an http proxy? http://tinyurl.com/6x8em has some info on using ppm behind a proxy. > Any suggestions? > Send specific errors. I just tried to install Class::DBI using ppm and managed it without too much hardship: ppm > install Class::DBI (presents long list of modules, Class::DBI and Class::DBI::*. I want to install the first one it showed, so:) ppm> 1 Unknown command '1'; type 'help' for a list of commands. (duh, let's try that again) ppm> install Class::DBI 1; (ok, we're on our way:) Package 1: ==================== Install 'Class-Data-Inheritable' version 0.02 in ActivePerl 5.8.0.805. Successfully installed Class-Data-Inheritable version 0.02 in ActivePer 05. ==================== Install 'Class-Trigger' version 0.08 in ActivePerl 5.8.0.805. Successfully installed Class-Trigger version 0.08 in ActivePerl 5.8.0.805. etc., eventually building up to Class::DBI > Thanks very much! > > ...jon HTH and welcome to the list Belden From kester at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 12:39:54 2004 From: kester at gmail.com (Kester Allen) Date: Mon Oct 25 12:40:01 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> References: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> Message-ID: <55adb31904102510397ae79f24@mail.gmail.com> > I don't have any experience with the perl dev kit. I've got a Personal > license for the Komodo IDE which I like quite a bit. The remote > graphical debugger paid for the (then-)$30 license the first time I > needed it. > > I don't do much with the regex debugger in Komodo. :( I should. :) If you're interested in a visual debugger (not an IDE, just a runtime, Tk-based visual debugger), I've had great success with ptkdb, which can be installed like so: C:\Documents and Settings\allen>ppm3 install Devel::ptkdb ==================== Install 'Devel-ptkdb' version 1.1087 in ActivePerl 5.8.4.810. ==================== Installing C:\Perl\html\site\lib\Devel\ptkdb.html Installing C:\Perl\site\lib\Devel\ptkdb.pm Successfully installed Devel-ptkdb version 1.1087 in ActivePerl 5.8.4.810. on a windows box with Activestate (it's also available from CPAN, of course-- it's pure Perl I believe, so it'll run anywhere) --Kester From jseidel at edpci.com Mon Oct 25 12:54:45 2004 From: jseidel at edpci.com (Jon Seidel, CMC) Date: Mon Oct 25 13:44:42 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> References: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> Message-ID: <51285.63.192.200.250.1098726885.squirrel@63.192.200.250> thanks, Belden... Great responses! re: ppm; here's what I get from one machine (the one with MKS Toolkit installed; that's why there are lots of cursor droppings at the start of each line. I love that ActiveState is a "devision" of Sophos... it's only a short step to deviation... :) anyway, note that there are only a very few Class:DBI items there, and not the base. $ ppm PPM - Programmer's Package Manager version 3.1. Copyright (c) 2001 ActiveState Corp. All Rights Reserved. ActiveState is a devision of Sophos. Entering interactive shell. Using Term::ReadLine::Stub as readline library. Type 'help' to get started. ←[4;mppm> ←[1minstall Class::DBI ←[0mSearching for 'Class::DBI' returned multiple results. Using 'search' instead ... Searching in Active Repositories 1. Class-DBI-Extension [0.01] 2. Class-DBI-Replication [0.01] 3. Geo-Walkabout [0.01] An open path representing the shape of a line ←[4;mppm> ←[1m ←[0m←[4;mppm> ←[1m Repositories I am using...the first two are the ones recommended by ActiveState on their website. ←[0m←[4;mppm> ←[1mrep ←[0mRepositories: [1] NewActiveState [2] DefaultActiveState [3] JanK [4] Roth [5] UWinnipeg [6] Bohnet [ ] ActiveState Package Repository [ ] ActiveState PPM2 Repository [ ] UWinnipeg56 [ ] UWinnipeg58 ←[4;mppm> ←[1mrep des 1 ←[0mDescribing Active Repository 1: Name: NewActiveState Location: http://ppm-ia.ActiveState.com/PPM/ppmserver.plex?urn:/PPM/Server/SQL Type: PPMServer 3.0 ←[4;mppm> ←[1mrep des 2 ←[0mDescribing Active Repository 2: Name: DefaultActiveState Location: http://www.ActiveState.com/cgibin/PPM/ppmserver.plex?urn:/PPMServer Type: PPMServer 2.0 ←[4;mppm> ←[1m The same results happen on another machine which does not have MKS installed, except that the display is cleaner. Do you have the same repositories defined as I do? Thanks again for all your help. I'll get to your other responses once I have a handle on getting the modules I want. ...jon > On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 15:49, Jon Seidel, CMC wrote: >> Couple of questions regarding Perl on Windows (I know, I know... :) >> >> I've been using ActiveState for some time and it's OK. However, since >> they >> were purchased, I am wondering about their commitment to the product. >> > > I hadn't heard this news... must check it out later! :) > >> So - Question #1: does anyone know of any other ports to Windows and how >> do >> they compare to ActiveState? I'd like to find a port where I can just >> use >> the CPAN module to install modules (see Question #3 below). >> > > cygwin has a perl binary. From http://www.cygwin.com : > > Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows. It consists of > two parts: > * A DLL (cygwin1.dll) which acts as a Linux API emulation > layer providing substantial Linux API functionality. > * A collection of tools, which provide Linux look and feel. > > and also google around for 'cygperl'. > > I've used cygperl + CPAN to install modules. IIRC it was mostly > painless, but I may be blocking some trauma :) > >> Question #2: I've been using the free distribution (I'm on perl 5.8), >> but >> I'm wondering if anyone knows if the support from ActiveState improves >> if >> you purchase the professional tools (such as Komodo and the Perl Dev >> Kit)? >> I'd be willing to buy it for better support and fixes to my problems. >> (The >> Visual Perl doesn't interest me in the least). >> > > I don't have any experience with the perl dev kit. I've got a Personal > license for the Komodo IDE which I like quite a bit. The remote > graphical debugger paid for the (then-)$30 license the first time I > needed it. > > I don't do much with the regex debugger in Komodo. :( I should. :) > >> Question #3: I can't get the ActiveState PPM to install modules >> successfully. I see the modules are on the ActiveState website (e.g., >> Test::More, Class::DBI), but neither search nor install 'see' them. I've >> updated the package libraries to use the latest identified on the >> ActiveState site, but that doesn't help. >> > > What exactly do you mean here? > > I suspect that you mean: when you visit the activestate website in > your web browser (outbound traffic to port 80), you can see that the > modules you want to install are available. But when you attempt to > use ppm to install those modules (outbound traffic on port 80, I > think?), ppm fails to fetch the software. > > If this is what you mean, then it sounds like you've got a proxying > problem. Are you using an http proxy? http://tinyurl.com/6x8em has > some info on using ppm behind a proxy. > >> Any suggestions? >> > > Send specific errors. I just tried to install Class::DBI using ppm > and managed it without too much hardship: > > ppm > install Class::DBI > (presents long list of modules, Class::DBI and Class::DBI::*. I > want to install the first one it showed, so:) > > ppm> 1 > Unknown command '1'; type 'help' for a list of commands. > (duh, let's try that again) > > ppm> install Class::DBI 1; > (ok, we're on our way:) > > Package 1: > ==================== > Install 'Class-Data-Inheritable' version 0.02 in ActivePerl 5.8.0.805. > > > Successfully installed Class-Data-Inheritable version 0.02 in ActivePer > 05. > ==================== > Install 'Class-Trigger' version 0.08 in ActivePerl 5.8.0.805. > > Successfully installed Class-Trigger version 0.08 in ActivePerl > 5.8.0.805. > > etc., eventually building up to Class::DBI > >> Thanks very much! >> >> ...jon > > HTH and welcome to the list > Belden > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Connecting Business and Technology Jon Seidel, CMC +1-510-530-6314 EDP Consulting, Inc. www.edpci.com CMC (Certified Management Consultant) is a certification mark awarded by the Institute of Management Consultants USA and represents evidence of the highest standards of consulting and adherence to the ethical canons of the profession. Less than 1% of all consultants have achieved this level of performance. See www.imcusa.org/hireacmc.acgi. From blyman at iii.com Mon Oct 25 15:01:51 2004 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Oct 25 15:01:34 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <55adb31904102510397ae79f24@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> <55adb31904102510397ae79f24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098734510.18696.204.camel@ls104> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 10:39, Kester Allen wrote: > > I don't have any experience with the perl dev kit. I've got a Personal > > license for the Komodo IDE which I like quite a bit. The remote > > graphical debugger paid for the (then-)$30 license the first time I > > needed it. > > > > I don't do much with the regex debugger in Komodo. :( I should. :) > > If you're interested in a visual debugger (not an IDE, just a runtime, > Tk-based visual debugger), I've had great success with ptkdb, which > can be installed like so: Quite true, ptkdb is a nice free alternative to Komodo's visual debugger. It's also got the advantage of being written in Perl, so presumably one could add features to it ("stitch in an editor") and debug the resulting mess with itself. Belden, hasn't tried that. Yet. From blyman at iii.com Mon Oct 25 15:26:11 2004 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Oct 25 15:25:47 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <51285.63.192.200.250.1098726885.squirrel@63.192.200.250> References: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> <51285.63.192.200.250.1098726885.squirrel@63.192.200.250> Message-ID: <1098735971.18696.221.camel@ls104> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 10:54, Jon Seidel, CMC wrote: > thanks, Belden... Great responses! > Sure, I've got an opinion about everything, as the archives will show you :) > re: ppm; here's what I get from one machine (the one with MKS Toolkit > installed; that's why there are lots of cursor droppings at the start of > each line. > ←[4;mppm> ←[1minstall Class::DBI > ←[0mSearching for 'Class::DBI' returned multiple results. Using > 'search' instead > ... > Searching in Active Repositories > 1. Class-DBI-Extension [0.01] > 2. Class-DBI-Replication [0.01] > 3. Geo-Walkabout [0.01] An open path representing the shape of a > line Yes, totally wierd that your current repositories don't list Class::DBI. You're right that we're using different repos: ppm> rep Repositories: [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository [2] ActiveState Package Repository HTH Belden From rkuropkat at followthebeat.com Mon Oct 25 15:24:21 2004 From: rkuropkat at followthebeat.com (Robert Kuropkat) Date: Mon Oct 25 17:32:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <1098734510.18696.204.camel@ls104> References: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com><1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104><55adb31904102510397ae79f24@mail.gmail.com> <1098734510.18696.204.camel@ls104> Message-ID: <4391.65.222.174.149.1098735861.squirrel@www.followthebeat.com> > > > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 10:39, Kester Allen wrote: >> > I don't have any experience with the perl dev kit. I've got a Personal >> > license for the Komodo IDE which I like quite a bit. The remote >> > graphical debugger paid for the (then-)$30 license the first time I >> > needed it. >> > >> > I don't do much with the regex debugger in Komodo. :( I should. :) >> >> If you're interested in a visual debugger (not an IDE, just a runtime, >> Tk-based visual debugger), I've had great success with ptkdb, which >> can be installed like so: > > Quite true, ptkdb is a nice free alternative to Komodo's visual > debugger. It's also got the advantage of being written in Perl, so > presumably one could add features to it ("stitch in an editor") > and debug the resulting mess with itself. > > Belden, hasn't tried that. Yet. > As an alternative to Komodo you might look at Eclipse: http://www.eclipse.org/ There is a Perl plugin called EPIC at: http://e-p-i-c.sourceforge.net/ I used this for quite awhile and was quite pleased with it. I used the previous version so there where still some things being worked on, but even so, I considered it a winner. In fact, the version I used did not have the integrated debugger working so I hooked in ptkdb. Robert Kuropkat From blyman at iii.com Mon Oct 25 18:24:23 2004 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Oct 25 18:24:04 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <4391.65.222.174.149.1098735861.squirrel@www.followthebeat.com> References: <000001c4b952$86e7c6d0$6200000a@edpci.com> <1098724780.18696.126.camel@ls104> <55adb31904102510397ae79f24@mail.gmail.com> <1098734510.18696.204.camel@ls104> <4391.65.222.174.149.1098735861.squirrel@www.followthebeat.com> Message-ID: <1098746663.18696.387.camel@ls104> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 13:24, Robert Kuropkat wrote: > As an alternative to Komodo you might look at Eclipse: > > http://www.eclipse.org/ Near as I can tell eclipse is a set of libraries, or maybe a framework, that people can use to build tools for building tools. Neat. > http://e-p-i-c.sourceforge.net/ > > I used this for quite awhile and was quite pleased with it. I used the > previous version so there where still some things being worked on, but > even so, I considered it a winner. In fact, the version I used did not > have the integrated debugger working so I hooked in ptkdb. This (and your recommendation, which deserves more than a long parenthetical aside which mostly talks about itself rather than its topic but alas, that is how this current joke goes!) is even neater. I may give this a play before too long here. Mmm. Not hacking ptkdb: priceless. Belden From george at metaart.org Mon Oct 25 20:23:13 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Oct 25 20:12:40 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Randal L. Schwartz Perl Seminar this weekend... seats still available Message-ID: <200410251823.13734.george@metaart.org> Reference: http://www.he.net/seminar/perl1.html ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Randal L. Schwartz Perl Seminar this weekend... seats still available Date: Monday 25 October 2004 4:41 pm From: Tiffany Morales ... Hi George, My name is Tiffany Morales. I am the Marketing Coordinator at Hurricane Electric Internet Services. I thought you would be interested in knowing that Randal L. Schwartz, Perl author and a founding board member of Perl Mongers, will be coming to Bay Area this weekend to speak at a Perl Seminar on Saturday, October 30, at Hurricane Electric in Fremont, CA. We have a few seats still available and would like offer them to you and the members of Oakland Perl Mongers for only $99.50, which is 50% off the regular rate. Below are the details: On October 30, 2004, Hurricane Electric is hosting "Learning Perl," the first seminar in a two part series that will focus on Perl Programming, in Fremont, CA. Randal L. Schwartz, twenty-year veteran of the software industry and renowned O'Reilly co-author of numerous books including Learning Perl and Programming Perl, will be the speaker at this seminar. "Learning Perl" presumes no prior knowledge of Perl, and exposes participants to the most important parts of Perl -- those items that are needed to accomplish many common tasks, and to lay the groundwork for a more advanced study of the language on Saturday, November 20, 2004 during ?Intermediate Perl,? the second seminar in this series. Attendees will receive a free copy of Randal L. Schwartz's popular O'Reilly Nutshell book, Learning Perl. If you or your members are interested in attending please feel free to call me at 510.580.4141 or email me at tmorales@he.net. For more information and to register for this event, check out http://www.he.net/seminar/perl1.html Thanks, Tiffany -- +---------------- H U R R I C A N E - E L E C T R I C ----------------+ | Tiffany Morales Web Hosting, Colocation, V 510 580.4141 | | Marketing Coordinator Dedicated Servers, F 510 580.4152 | | tmorales(at)he.net Dedicated Connections http://www.he.net | +----------------- I N T E R N E T - S E R V I C E S -----------------+ ------------------------------------------------------- From alamozzz at yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 20:34:04 2004 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Tue Oct 26 20:34:06 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 article In-Reply-To: <20041018203931.GA26349@ethics-gradient.nog.net> Message-ID: <20041027013404.32450.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com> The problems he describes in his article are similar to what is happening in other areas of software engineering. --- Tony Monroe wrote: > Here's an article written by someone who doesn't > like the way Perl > 6 is headed. > > http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/ > > It's not a short read (based on the scroll widget on > my browser). > It might even be on-topic here. :-) > > -- tony > > ATTACHMENT part 1.2 application/pgp-signature > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From jseidel at edpci.com Wed Oct 27 00:17:06 2004 From: jseidel at edpci.com (Jon Seidel, CMC) Date: Wed Oct 27 00:35:10 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows Message-ID: <53812.63.192.200.250.1098854226.squirrel@63.192.200.250> > You're right that we're using different repos: > > ppm> rep > Repositories: > [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository > [2] ActiveState Package Repository > > HTH > Belden Belden... What are the actual web addresses for each of those repositories? I'd like to use them and see if ppm responds more appropriately. thanks...jon From george at metaart.org Wed Oct 27 01:28:36 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Wed Oct 27 01:17:56 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 article In-Reply-To: <20041027013404.32450.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041027013404.32450.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200410262328.36550.george@metaart.org> All, In case you weren't at the last meeting, the theme of our next meeting is "Perl 6 and Parrot". George Tony, For sure the article you reference is on-topic here, especially given the theme of the next meeting. George P.S. Even if it weren't on-topic ... Adrien, Could you elaborate on the thought you've put forward at our next meeting? It doesn't have to be very long (2 or 3 minutes would be fine, longer is OK too). George On Tuesday 26 October 2004 6:34 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > The problems he describes in his article are similar > to what is happening in other areas of software > engineering. > > --- Tony Monroe wrote: > > Here's an article written by someone who doesn't > > like the way Perl > > 6 is headed. > > > > http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/ > > > > It's not a short read (based on the scroll widget on > > my browser). > > It might even be on-topic here. :-) > > > > -- tony > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 1.2 application/pgp-signature > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Wed Oct 27 01:28:45 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Wed Oct 27 01:18:04 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Future Oakland.pm Meetings Message-ID: <200410262328.45095.george@metaart.org> There were 13 people at the October Oakland.pm meeting. Mostly it was a social meeting. However, we talked some about future meetings and made some progress. What follows is my understanding of the plan for future meetings based on the meeting and subsequent emails. If you have corrections, let me know. <<<<<< 2004: There will be two more regular meetings in 2004. The theme for November will be "Perl 6 and Parrot"; Steve Fink*, Art*, George, Kester, Zed volunteered to speak on the theme. [* = not confirmed] December will be a social meeting of some kind, maybe a party. 2005 (first 5 meeting): January: Python (Zed) February: Wiki March: POE (Tony) April**: Ruby (Stephen) May: Code Reviews [** = date not confirmed] Notes: * Comments, corrections, etc. are welcome. * Does anyone know Art's email? <<<<<< As far as I know he isn't a subscriber to our list. From george at metaart.org Wed Oct 27 02:53:38 2004 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Wed Oct 27 02:43:00 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl 6 article In-Reply-To: <20041027013404.32450.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041027013404.32450.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200410270053.38347.george@metaart.org> This may be more relevant to the article Tony cites than to Adrien's post. I'm not sure. Anyway here goes. Some of what won me over to Perl was * Text was taken seriously. E.g. Regular expressions were powerful and well integrated into the language * The language and the culture were permeated with the "There's More Than One Way To Do It" philosophy. * Learning to do basic things in Perl was incredibly easy. Some of my concerns about Perl are * Regular expressions are cryptic and confusing. Other languages now have regular expressions roughly as powerful as Perl's (though not as well integrated into the language as far as I know), * The internals of Perl are becoming incredibly difficult to modify (I gather). * The OO capability in Perl seems a tad clumsy to me and grafted on. As far as I can tell, Perl 6+Parrot nails all of these concerns and makes even better the things that won me over to Perl in the first place. Regarding the concerns listed above * Perl 6 rules are a major advance over regular expressions. * Parrot is a long needed rewrite of Perl internals and much more. * In Perl 6, OO is well integrated into the language. In my view, Perl 6 is such a major advance over Perl 5 as to make it worthwhile for me to learn a modified syntax. Many complaints have been made about Perl 6. I'll address one that I care very little about. and say why. If you wish to address one too, kool! <<<<<< If you wish to give your $0.02 on this one, that's kool too. One of the complaints about Perl 6 is that many programmers will not understand it. Well, it's probably true that few programmers will master all of Perl 6. Hey, as far as I can tell few programmers mastered all of Perl 5; I sure didn't. I really don't need to master something for it to be an effective tool, Hey, how many people do you know who have mastered all of English. Personally, I don't know any; but I know a lot of people who use it effectively. What would disturb me is if basic things seemed to be harder in Perl 6. But it looks like it will be even easier to learn or teach basic things in Perl 6 (than it it is to learn or teach them in Perl 5). The artist responsible for Perl culture thought Perl 6 was needed for the Perl community as well as for technical reasons. As far as I can tell he was right on. George ======================================== On Tuesday 26 October 2004 6:34 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > The problems he describes in his article are similar > to what is happening in other areas of software > engineering. > > --- Tony Monroe wrote: > > Here's an article written by someone who doesn't > > like the way Perl > > 6 is headed. > > > > http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/ > > > > It's not a short read (based on the scroll widget on > > my browser). > > It might even be on-topic here. :-) > > > > -- tony From blyman at iii.com Wed Oct 27 10:08:47 2004 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Wed Oct 27 10:08:22 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Help with Perl on Windows In-Reply-To: <53812.63.192.200.250.1098854226.squirrel@63.192.200.250> References: <53812.63.192.200.250.1098854226.squirrel@63.192.200.250> Message-ID: <1098889727.28994.2.camel@ls104> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 22:17, Jon Seidel, CMC wrote: > Belden... What are the actual web addresses for each of those > repositories? I'd like to use them and see if ppm responds more > appropriately. > > thanks...jon Silly me. Here you go. Belden ==== ppm> rep Repositories: [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository [2] ActiveState Package Repository ppm> rep describe 1 Describing Active Repository 1: Name: ActiveState PPM2 Repository Location: http://ppm.ActiveState.com/cgibin/PPM/ppmserver-5.8-windows.pl?urn:/PPMServer Type: PPMServer 2.0 ppm> rep describe 2 Describing Active Repository 2: Name: ActiveState Package Repository Location: http://ppm-ia.ActiveState.com/PPM/ppmserver-5.8-windows.plex?urn:/PPM/Server/SQL Type: PPMServer 3.0 ==== From jseidel at edpci.com Sat Oct 30 16:01:57 2004 From: jseidel at edpci.com (Jon Seidel, CMC) Date: Sat Oct 30 16:01:54 2004 Subject: [oak perl] RE: Oakland Digest, Vol 16, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <200410271700.i9RH0B5P023051@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <000d01c4bec3$b1fd8aa0$6200000a@edpci.com> Thanks very much, Belden... That fixed the problem with Class::DBI, which I have now installed. Interestingly enough, they haven't ported Test::More, which is a little surprising. ...jon > Belden > > ==== > > ppm> rep > > Repositories: > > [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository > [2] ActiveState Package Repository > > ppm> rep describe 1 > Describing Active Repository 1: > Name: ActiveState PPM2 Repository > Location: > http://ppm.ActiveState.com/cgibin/PPM/ppmserver-5.8-windows.pl ?urn:/PPMServer Type: PPMServer 2.0 ppm> rep describe 2 Describing Active Repository 2: Name: ActiveState Package Repository Location: http://ppm-ia.ActiveState.com/PPM/ppmserver-5.8-windows.plex?urn:/PPM/Se rver/SQL Type: PPMServer 3.0 ====