L.A.M.P. University

From george at metaart.org Sun May 4 21:51:47 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] New Member - Yet Another... In-Reply-To: <200305010431.h414Vf927232@mail.pm.org> References: <200305010431.h414Vf927232@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <200305041951.47204.george@metaart.org> Robert, Would something like the page now at the following loacation work?: http://camelot.pm.org/usgroups_bystate.html George On Wednesday 30 April 2003 9:42 pm, Robert Kuropkat wrote: > ... > perl.org would make things much easier if they listed > groups by state... > > Robert Kuropkat From blyman at iii.com Mon May 5 13:25:26 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl QOTW - gone? Message-ID: <3EB6AC96.9020309@iii.com> It seems that MJD's Perl QOTW[0] has died out: anyone know the skinny on this? Belden [0] - http://perl.plover.com/qotw/ From george at metaart.org Mon May 5 13:57:11 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: perl and/or bioinformatics teachers for open-source instructor led software training Message-ID: <200305051157.11369.george@metaart.org> I don't know anything about this. I'm forwarding it to the list because I believe that there are people in the group who might be interested in such work. -- George ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: perl and/or bioinformatics teachers for open-source instructor led software training Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 21:32:08 -0700 From: "L. Sterling James" To: , , , , , Will be offering public classes through-out the United States for LAMP/open-source 3-5 day courses. Looking for instructors for perl, python, mysql, linux admin, biojava/bioperl and bioinformatics, jboss, php and postgreSQL. MySQL AB has been offering classes at our SF/Redwood City facility - www.seaportcenter.com C.V.s to lon@lampuniversity.com ------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030505/15a9cf74/attachment.htm From blyman at iii.com Mon May 5 15:00:44 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: perl and/or bioinformatics teachers for open-source instructor led software training References: <200305051157.11369.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3EB6C2EC.3030805@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > I don't know anything about this. > > I'm forwarding it to the list because > I believe that there are people in the group > who might be interested in such work. Does http://www.lampuniversity.com work for anyone? My browsers load a nice-looking image just fine, but there aren't any active links... From cajun at cajuninc.com Mon May 5 15:09:43 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (cajun@cajuninc.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: perl and/or bioinformatics teachers for open-sourceinstructor led software training In-Reply-To: <3EB6C2EC.3030805@iii.com> References: <200305051157.11369.george@metaart.org> <3EB6C2EC.3030805@iii.com> Message-ID: <50515.206.180.228.114.1052165383.squirrel@rattler.cajuninc.com> I think you're seeing what you're supposed to: ------------ L.A.M.P. University

> > > George Woolley wrote: >> I don't know anything about this. >> >> I'm forwarding it to the list because >> I believe that there are people in the group >> who might be interested in such work. > > > Does http://www.lampuniversity.com work for anyone? My > browsers load a nice-looking image just fine, but there > aren't any active links... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > From cpm at bitbucket.com Mon May 5 15:14:55 2003 From: cpm at bitbucket.com (Craig McLaughlin) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: perl and/or bioinformatics teachers for open-source instructor led software training In-Reply-To: <3EB6C2EC.3030805@iii.com> References: <200305051157.11369.george@metaart.org> <3EB6C2EC.3030805@iii.com> Message-ID: <1052165695.5294.365.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> On Mon, 2003-05-05 at 13:00, Belden Lyman wrote: > Does http://www.lampuniversity.com work for anyone? My > browsers load a nice-looking image just fine, but there > aren't any active links... No joy here... I looked at the page source, and it's a (broken) image map and a single jpeg file. That's a very... odd way of doing things. --Craig From george at metaart.org Mon May 5 15:49:33 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: perl and/or bioinformatics teachers for open-source instructor led software training In-Reply-To: <1052165695.5294.365.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> References: <200305051157.11369.george@metaart.org> <3EB6C2EC.3030805@iii.com> <1052165695.5294.365.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> Message-ID: <200305051349.33380.george@metaart.org> On Monday 05 May 2003 1:14 pm, Craig McLaughlin wrote: > On Mon, 2003-05-05 at 13:00, Belden Lyman wrote: > > Does http://www.lampuniversity.com work for anyone? My > > browsers load a nice-looking image just fine, but there > > aren't any active links... > > No joy here... I looked at the page source, and it's a (broken) image > map and a single jpeg file. That's a very... odd way of doing things. > > --Craig Very odd indeed. Is it perhaps a mock up of something planned? The only thing that worked for me was Courses. -- George From blyman at iii.com Mon May 5 16:17:57 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: perl and/or bioinformatics teachers for open-source instructor led software training References: <200305051157.11369.george@metaart.org> <3EB6C2EC.3030805@iii.com> <1052165695.5294.365.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> <200305051349.33380.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3EB6D505.5000203@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > On Monday 05 May 2003 1:14 pm, Craig McLaughlin wrote: > >>On Mon, 2003-05-05 at 13:00, Belden Lyman wrote: >> >>>Does http://www.lampuniversity.com work for anyone? My >>>browsers load a nice-looking image just fine, but there >>>aren't any active links... >> >>No joy here... I looked at the page source, and it's a (broken) image >>map and a single jpeg file. That's a very... odd way of doing things. >> >>--Craig > > > Very odd indeed. > Is it perhaps a mock up of something planned? > > The only thing that worked for me was Courses. > Good guess, George - I wrote to lon@lampuniversity and got back a quick response: sure enough, site is under development. I'll go bate my breath somewhere... From george at metaart.org Tue May 6 00:22:46 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Next Meeting: Tue. May 13, 2003 Message-ID: <200305052222.46421.george@metaart.org> Come to our seventh meeting: * when: Tue. May 13, 2003 7:30pm-9:30pm. (We meet each 2nd Tue.) * where: Arden Schaeffer's place 413 61st Street, Oakland CA * directions: link to original, link to Arden's * what: * introductions * lightning talks (?) * playing with Perl culture (link to notes) * ... * who: open to anyone interested. * how much: no fee for our meetings. ................................................................ Notes: (1) Anyone up for giving a lightning talk? (from 0 to 5 min.) (2) The main thing at the meeting is a discussion rather than a lecture. From robert-kuropkat at attbi.com Tue May 6 01:19:42 2003 From: robert-kuropkat at attbi.com (Robert Kuropkat) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] New Member - Yet Another... In-Reply-To: <200305041951.47204.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200305060608.h4668bV16123@mail.pm.org> MUCH more useful! I've bookmarked Camelot to go back and look at it a bit more also. Thanks! On Sun, 4 May 2003 19:51:47 -0700, George Woolley wrote: >Robert, >Would something like the page now at the following loacation work?: > http://camelot.pm.org/usgroups_bystate.html >George > >On Wednesday 30 April 2003 9:42 pm, Robert Kuropkat wrote: >> ... >> perl.org would make things much easier if they listed >> groups by state... >> >> Robert Kuropkat > > >_______________________________________________ >Oakland mailing list >Oakland@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Tue May 6 01:26:51 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] New Member - Yet Another... In-Reply-To: <200305060608.h4668bV16123@mail.pm.org> References: <200305060608.h4668bV16123@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <200305052326.51054.george@metaart.org> Robert, You're welcome. I'm glad it's useful. Thanks for expressing your original concern. And thanks for the feedback just now. If you have more thoughts about it, let me know. -- George On Monday 05 May 2003 11:19 pm, Robert Kuropkat wrote: > MUCH more useful! I've bookmarked Camelot to go back and look at it a bit > more also. > > Thanks! > > On Sun, 4 May 2003 19:51:47 -0700, George Woolley wrote: > >Robert, > >Would something like the page now at the following loacation work?: > > http://camelot.pm.org/usgroups_bystate.html > >George > > > >On Wednesday 30 April 2003 9:42 pm, Robert Kuropkat wrote: > >> ... > >> perl.org would make things much easier if they listed > >> groups by state... > >> > >> Robert Kuropkat From george at metaart.org Tue May 6 22:23:59 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Newsletter of 2003-05-06 Message-ID: <200305062023.59128.george@metaart.org> The O'Reilly UG newsletter of 2003-05-06 is on our site at http://oakland.pm.org/oreilly/2003/newsletter_20030506.txt should you wish to read it. From mtheo at amural.com Mon May 12 21:22:55 2003 From: mtheo at amural.com (Mark Theodoropoulos) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Intro / looking forward to mtg Message-ID: <3EBFF48F.18375.18975BD4@localhost> Hi, all -- I recently joined the list, and George suggested writing an introduction here; I'm planning on attending tomorrow evening's meeting but figure I might as well say a word ahead of time. In what now seems like an alternate universe, I actually downloaded (at superfast 1200 bps, of course!) & installed Perl 1.0 shortly after Larry Wall released it on Usenet in 1989 -- in a port for the *Amiga*, no less; I didn't end up using it, apart from some initial poking around. But I did get bitten by the bug about four years ago and now look for *any* possible excuse to use Perl. I'll forgo the traditional List Of Bizarre Languages And Environments I've Dealt With Over The Years -- although, from my college years, APL on a time-shared Amdahl with IBM golf-ball terminals kinda stands out in my mind.... But I first got involved with Unix and the net in '82 or '83, and ever since then I seem always to have gravitated toward scripting languages, starting with shell programming and the long-gone Informer (Informix's database query language before everyone was forced to go SQL -- it was a way better relational language than SQL, dang it!), then years of various xBases and other database work, and now this wonderful playground donated by Larry Wall. Everything about the Perl culture delights me no end, but I'm particularly appreciative of the ethic of generosity & playfulness, and the artistic temperaments Perl seems to attract -- especially lovers of music, an abiding passion of mine. In that light, even though it's my first meeting, I offered George a "Perl Culture"-type lightning talk for tomorrow; might as well jump right into the frying pan. So expect five minutes or less entitled "Arnold Schoenberg, Perl hacker?" (Note, of course, that offering a talk is not the same thing as promising a coherent talk.) Looking forward to meeting you! Mark Theodoropoulos Berkeley Oh, er, uh... print&really_really_lazy;sub really_really_lazy{return 'JAPH'} -- producer / classics without walls the anti-warhorse zone / www.amural.com kusf 90.3fm / san francisco the gurre-lieder project, june 8: http://www.amural.com/gl.html mtheo@amural.com From george at metaart.org Tue May 13 00:59:38 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Intro / looking forward to mtg In-Reply-To: <3EBFF48F.18375.18975BD4@localhost> References: <3EBFF48F.18375.18975BD4@localhost> Message-ID: <200305122259.38992.george@metaart.org> Mark, Thanks for introducing yourself on the list. You are an inspiration. I'll give a lightning talk too -- a show and tell of 3 simple fun things I've put on the web recently, things that involved LWP. Yep, it will be fun to meet you tomorrow. Hm, Schoenberg. Will there be music for your lightning talk? I don't recall any of our talks involving music before. That would be kool! :) See you tomorrow. -- George Arden, Is there a CD or tape player in the room where we meet? Hm. I guess we could play a CD on the Linux box. Right? -- George All, Anyone else up for giving a lightning talk? -- George On Monday 12 May 2003 7:22 pm, Mark Theodoropoulos wrote: > Hi, all -- I recently joined the list, and George suggested writing an > introduction here; I'm planning on attending tomorrow evening's meeting > but figure I might as well say a word ahead of time. > > In what now seems like an alternate universe, I actually downloaded (at > superfast 1200 bps, of course!) & installed Perl 1.0 shortly after > Larry Wall released it on Usenet in 1989 -- in a port for the *Amiga*, > no less; I didn't end up using it, apart from some initial poking > around. But I did get bitten by the bug about four years ago and now > look for *any* possible excuse to use Perl. > > I'll forgo the traditional List Of Bizarre Languages And Environments > I've Dealt With Over The Years -- although, from my college years, APL > on a time-shared Amdahl with IBM golf-ball terminals kinda stands out > in my mind.... But I first got involved with Unix and the net in '82 or > '83, and ever since then I seem always to have gravitated toward > scripting languages, starting with shell programming and the long-gone > Informer (Informix's database query language before everyone was forced > to go SQL -- it was a way better relational language than SQL, dang > it!), then years of various xBases and other database work, and now > this wonderful playground donated by Larry Wall. > > Everything about the Perl culture delights me no end, but I'm > particularly appreciative of the ethic of generosity & playfulness, and > the artistic temperaments Perl seems to attract -- especially lovers of > music, an abiding passion of mine. In that light, even though it's my > first meeting, I offered George a "Perl Culture"-type lightning talk > for tomorrow; might as well jump right into the frying pan. So expect > five minutes or less entitled "Arnold Schoenberg, Perl hacker?" (Note, > of course, that offering a talk is not the same thing as promising a > coherent talk.) > > Looking forward to meeting you! > > Mark Theodoropoulos > Berkeley > > > Oh, er, uh... > print&really_really_lazy;sub really_really_lazy{return 'JAPH'} From david at fetter.org Tue May 13 01:08:43 2003 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Intro / looking forward to mtg In-Reply-To: <200305122259.38992.george@metaart.org> References: <3EBFF48F.18375.18975BD4@localhost> <200305122259.38992.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <20030513060843.GP3846@fetter.org> On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:59:38PM -0700, George Woolley wrote: > Hm, Schoenberg. Will there be music for your lightning talk? On the subject of Greater German composers and Blitz(schprech|krieg), how 'bout Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries? ;) > I don't recall any of our talks involving music before. That would > be kool! :) Alright! > Is there a CD or tape player in the room where we meet? Hm. I > guess we could play a CD on the Linux box. Right? Any machine with a CD drive and sound output can do that. > All, > Anyone else up for giving a lightning talk? Unfortunately, I have a prior appointment, but I'm sending along my best wishes. Cheers, D (mmm...matudinal napthalene palmitate) -- David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 510 893 6100 cell: +1 415 235 3778 From extasia at extasia.org Tue May 13 16:44:23 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] SIG-BEER-WEST this Saturday 5/17 in San Francisco Message-ID: <20030513144423.A4331@gerasimov.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 SIG-beer-west Saturday, May 17, 2003 at 6:00pm San Francisco, CA Beer. Mental stimulation. This event: * Saturday, 05/17/2003, 6:00pm, at the Toronado, San Francisco Coming events (third Saturdays): * Saturday, 06/21/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 07/19/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 08/16/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 09/20/2003, 6:00pm San Francisco's next social event for computer sysadmins and their friends, sig-beer-west, will take place on Saturday, May 17, 2003 at the [1]Toronado in San Francisco, CA. The Toronado has an impressive selection of [2]draught and [3]bottled beer. Festivities will start at 6:00pm and continue until we've all left. The Toronado has an excellent selection of beer, but no food. It is perfectly okay to score food from neighboring establishments and bring it back to the Toronado to eat. Also, after we are all full with beer we may roam off to a nearby restaurant. [1] http://www.toronado.com/ [2] http://www.toronado.com/draft.htm [3] http://www.toronado.com/bottles.htm Everyone is welcome at this event. We mean it! Please feel free to forward this information and to invite friends, co-workers, and others who might enjoy lifting a glass with interesting folks from all over the place. (O.K., you do have to be of legal drinking age to attend.) For directions to the Toronado, please use the [4]excellent directions at their website. When you show up at the Toronado, you should look for some kind of botched sig-beer-west sign. We will try to make it obvious who we are. :-) [4] http://www.toronado.com/map.htm Note: Check the tables in the back room for us if you don't see us at the tables by the bar. The back room is back and to the left. Can't come this month? Mark your calendar for next month. sig-beer-west is always on the third Saturday of the month. Any Comments, Questions, or Suggestions of Things to Do Later on That Evening ... email [5]Fiid or [6]David. [5] fiid-AT-fiid=DOT=net [6] extasia-AT-extasia=DOT=org There is now a sig-beer-west mailing list. To subscribe, send an email with "subscribe" in the body to . sig-beer-west FAQ 1. Q: Your announcement says "computer sysadmins and their friends". How do I know if I'm a friend of a computer sysadmin? I don't even know what one is. A: You're a friend of a computer sysadmin if you can find the sig-beer-west sign at this month's sig-beer-west event. 2. Q: I'm not really a beer person. In fact I'm interested in hanging out, but not in drinking. Would I be welcome? A: Absolutely! The point is to hang out with fun, interesting folks. Please do join us. 3. Q: Is parking difficult around the Toronado, like maybe I should factor this into my travel time? A: Yes. ______________________________________________________________________ sig-beer-west was started in February 2002 when a couple Washington, D.C. based systems administrators who moved to the San Francisco Bay area wanted to continue a [7]dc-sage tradition, sig-beer, which is described in dc-sage web space as: SIG-beer, as in "Special Interest Group - Beer" ala ACM, or as in "send the BEER signal to that process". The original SIG-beer gathering takes place in Washington DC, usually on the first Saturday night of the month. [7] http://www.dc-sage.org/ ______________________________________________________________________ Last modified: $Date: 2003/05/03 20:53:52 $ - -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+wVqQPh0M9c/OpdARAsBbAJ9IyuxyVXjWAY3hIsnbLqJvRwE0sACeNR35 QA2Q3bdP3nMTqTl/q1PlsIM= =/RPY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cpm at bitbucket.com Tue May 13 15:59:09 2003 From: cpm at bitbucket.com (Craig McLaughlin) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Regrets... Message-ID: <1052859549.3517.9.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> All -- Alas, as much as I was hoping to shake loose from the chains that bind, I'm not going to be able to make it to the meeting tonight. Sorry 'bout that, it's just crunch-time on not one but TWO deliverables, and "every waking hour" and all that. Have fun, hope to make the next one, --Craig "new guy" McL From extasia at extasia.org Tue May 13 17:05:11 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Regrets... In-Reply-To: <1052859549.3517.9.camel@sith.bitbucket.com>; from cpm@bitbucket.com on Tue, May 13, 2003 at 01:59:09PM -0700 References: <1052859549.3517.9.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> Message-ID: <20030513150511.A4770@gerasimov.net> Hate to say "Me too", but... me too. My schedule has been hectic lately (rehearsals just about every night for the last month and a half. Look forward to next month's meeting... P.S. I'm even missing this month's sig-beer-west for a rehearsal! (It's being guest hosted, though, so I encourage you to seek out beer and mental stimulation...) -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030513/179e8254/attachment.bin From george at metaart.org Tue May 13 17:39:21 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Regrets... In-Reply-To: <20030513150511.A4770@gerasimov.net> References: <1052859549.3517.9.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> <20030513150511.A4770@gerasimov.net> Message-ID: <200305131539.21418.george@metaart.org> David & Craig, No problem here. It would have been kool to have you both there. But I certainly understand. Anyway, it looks like a number of people are coming. I'm expecting it to be fascinating. -- George On Tuesday 13 May 2003 3:05 pm, David Alban wrote: > Hate to say "Me too", but... me too. > > My schedule has been hectic lately (rehearsals just about every night > for the last month and a half. > > Look forward to next month's meeting... > > P.S. I'm even missing this month's sig-beer-west for a rehearsal! > (It's being guest hosted, though, so I encourage you to seek > out beer and mental stimulation...) From robert at namodn.com Thu May 15 01:53:22 2003 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] ouch Message-ID: <20030515065322.GT31760@namodn.com> I just had to start looking at Acme modules : http://search.cpan.org/src/OVID/Acme-Code-Police-2.1828/Police.pm From george at metaart.org Thu May 15 02:36:36 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] ouch In-Reply-To: <20030515065322.GT31760@namodn.com> References: <20030515065322.GT31760@namodn.com> Message-ID: <200305150036.36126.george@metaart.org> Very Kool! If I use the module at all, I rot in the 8th circle of hell forever. If I use it without understanding it, apparently my fate will be even worse. But the module is said to instantly eliminate all sorts of coding errors. And based on reading the POD (yes, I admit to reading it), it appears to deliver on it's promise. Hm, another difficult trade off. I'd check this out. It won't take long. It's very concise and quite clear. -- george On Wednesday 14 May 2003 11:53 pm, Rob Helmer wrote: > I just had to start looking at Acme modules : > > http://search.cpan.org/src/OVID/Acme-Code-Police-2.1828/Police.pm From mtheo at amural.com Thu May 15 03:44:31 2003 From: mtheo at amural.com (Mark Theodoropoulos) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] ouch In-Reply-To: <200305150036.36126.george@metaart.org> References: <20030515065322.GT31760@namodn.com> Message-ID: <3EC2F0FF.3141.244174F3@localhost> Ah, yes . . . every Perl installation should be well-stocked with Acme modules . . . like Acme::DWIM (eliminates all the unsightly operators from your code, replacing them with the new all-purpose "..." operator, pronounced 'yadda yadda yadda' -- the code still runs, of course), Acme::Don::t (which finally provides the missing "don't" command to go along with Perl's built-in "do"), Acme::Time::Asparagus (it's Onion before Eggplant as I write this), Acme::YBFOD (invoked with "use YourBrainForOnceDude;"), and many more. Perhaps we should consider contributing a group effort module to the Acme namespace, with an appropriately tangy East Bay flavor? -- producer / classics without walls the anti-warhorse zone / www.amural.com kusf 90.3fm / san francisco the gurre-lieder project, june 8: http://www.amural.com/gl.html mtheo@amural.com From george at metaart.org Thu May 15 10:15:31 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] ouch In-Reply-To: <3EC2F0FF.3141.244174F3@localhost> References: <20030515065322.GT31760@namodn.com> <3EC2F0FF.3141.244174F3@localhost> Message-ID: <200305150815.32195.george@metaart.org> On Thursday 15 May 2003 1:44 am, Mark Theodoropoulos wrote: > Ah, yes . . . every Perl installation should be well-stocked with Acme > modules . . . like Acme::DWIM (eliminates all the unsightly operators > from your code, replacing them with the new all-purpose "..." operator, > pronounced 'yadda yadda yadda' -- the code still runs, of course), > Acme::Don::t (which finally provides the missing "don't" command to go > along with Perl's built-in "do"), Acme::Time::Asparagus (it's Onion > before Eggplant as I write this), Acme::YBFOD (invoked with "use > YourBrainForOnceDude;"), and many more. > > Perhaps we should consider contributing a group effort module to the > Acme namespace, with an appropriately tangy East Bay flavor? Great idea. Would you be willing to coordinate such an effort? From george at metaart.org Thu May 15 10:35:30 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] ouch In-Reply-To: <3EC2F0FF.3141.244174F3@localhost> References: <20030515065322.GT31760@namodn.com> <3EC2F0FF.3141.244174F3@localhost> Message-ID: <200305150835.30696.george@metaart.org> On Thursday 15 May 2003 1:44 am, Mark Theodoropoulos wrote: > Ah, yes . . . every Perl installation should be well-stocked with Acme > modules . . . like Acme::DWIM (eliminates all the unsightly operators > from your code, replacing them with the new all-purpose "..." operator, > pronounced 'yadda yadda yadda' -- the code still runs, of course), > Acme::Don::t (which finally provides the missing "don't" command to go > along with Perl's built-in "do"), Acme::Time::Asparagus (it's Onion > before Eggplant as I write this), Acme::YBFOD (invoked with "use > YourBrainForOnceDude;"), and many more. > > Perhaps we should consider contributing a group effort module to the > Acme namespace, with an appropriately tangy East Bay flavor? Why not more than one module? Why not world domination? Why can't we have our own space? How about Ace? Oh, it's taken. Damn. Well, I like the hardware metaphor. In my searches I encountered The Perl Hardware Store at http://perl.plover.com/yak/hw2/ Very fun. But you all likely already know about it. Oh, well. Modernity is one of my favorite sources. I want modules like Acme::Deconstruct # does? Acme::EitherOr # changes ands to ors (exclusive ors, that is) Acme::NeitherNor # even more advanced Acme::Hammer # does? hey involves harware & modernity Acme::Rules::Enforcer # enforces whatever you want it to Acme::Stricter # even stricter than strict And even Acme::Modern # gives us Acme::DWIM + many of the above + ... Acme::WorldDomination Acme::AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs Acme::Borg Oh yeah, the subject of the post works for me: Acme::Ouch The possibilities are staggering. (But you knew that already.) I look forward to whatever the plan turns out to be. If we could produce a single module together (however simple) that would be great. From george at metaart.org Fri May 16 23:57:07 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Newsletter of 2003-05-16 Message-ID: <200305162157.07741.george@metaart.org> The O'Reilly UG newsletter of 2003-05-16 is on our site at http://oakland.pm.org/oreilly/2003/newsletter_20030516.txt should you wish to read it. From blyman at iii.com Wed May 28 12:56:23 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] untrappable perl errors Message-ID: <3ED4F847.10704@iii.com> This I understand: $ perl -le 'do{return}; print "still here\n"' Can't return outside a subroutine at -e line 1. But why doesn't $@ get set with above message? $ perl -le 'eval{do{return}}; print "error: $@"' error: Belden From george at metaart.org Wed May 28 15:21:26 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] untrappable perl errors In-Reply-To: <3ED4F847.10704@iii.com> References: <3ED4F847.10704@iii.com> Message-ID: <200305281321.26577.george@metaart.org> On Wednesday 28 May 2003 10:56 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > This I understand: > > $ perl -le 'do{return}; print "still here\n"' > Can't return outside a subroutine at -e line 1. > > But why doesn't $@ get set with above message? > > $ perl -le 'eval{do{return}}; print "error: $@"' > error: > > Belden Belden, Interesting. Based on your email, I've tried a number of returns in evals that I thought wouldn't work; and all of them did work. I found Programming Perl quite helpful in explaining this. See two relevant passages from it after my "signature". George ................................... from Programming Perl (3rd Edition) Perl Functions in Alphabetic Order eval .................................. ... For either form of eval, the value returned from an eval is the value of the last expression evaluated, just as with subroutines. Similarly, you may use the return operator to return a value from the middle of the eval. ... ................................... from Programming Perl (3rd Edition) Perl Functions in Alphabetic Order return .................................. ... This operator causes the current subroutine (or eval or doFILE) to return immediately with the specified value. Attempting to use return outside these three places raises an exception. ... From blyman at iii.com Wed May 28 16:18:26 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] untrappable perl errors References: <3ED4F847.10704@iii.com> <200305281321.26577.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3ED527A2.9070400@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > On Wednesday 28 May 2003 10:56 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > >>This I understand: >> >> $ perl -le 'do{return}; print "still here\n"' >> Can't return outside a subroutine at -e line 1. >> >>But why doesn't $@ get set with above message? >> >> $ perl -le 'eval{do{return}}; print "error: $@"' >> error: >> >>Belden > > > Belden, > Interesting. > Based on your email, I've tried a number of returns in evals > that I thought wouldn't work; > and all of them did work. > > I found Programming Perl quite helpful in explaining this. > See two relevant passages from it > after my "signature". > > I'm not sure those passages explain this, though, which *does* work: $ perl -le 'eval{die "gork!\n"}; print "error: $@"' error: gork! that is, if one die's within an eval(), the death message will be in $@. I assumed that 'do{return}' was calling die() and hence would set $@, but that obviously is not the case. This eval{do{return}} is related to my recent toyings with self- modifying code. Belden From george at metaart.org Wed May 28 19:43:42 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] untrappable perl errors In-Reply-To: <3ED527A2.9070400@iii.com> References: <3ED4F847.10704@iii.com> <200305281321.26577.george@metaart.org> <3ED527A2.9070400@iii.com> Message-ID: <200305281743.42915.george@metaart.org> On Wednesday 28 May 2003 2:18 pm, Belden Lyman wrote: > George Woolley wrote: > > On Wednesday 28 May 2003 10:56 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > >>This I understand: > >> > >> $ perl -le 'do{return}; print "still here\n"' > >> Can't return outside a subroutine at -e line 1. > >> > >>But why doesn't $@ get set with above message? > >> > >> $ perl -le 'eval{do{return}}; print "error: $@"' > >> error: > >> > >>Belden > > > > Belden, > > Interesting. > > Based on your email, I've tried a number of returns in evals > > that I thought wouldn't work; > > and all of them did work. > > > > I found Programming Perl quite helpful in explaining this. > > See two relevant passages from it > > after my "signature". > > I'm not sure those passages explain this, though, which *does* work: > > $ perl -le 'eval{die "gork!\n"}; print "error: $@"' > error: gork! > > that is, if one die's within an eval(), the death message will be > in $@. I assumed that 'do{return}' was calling die() and hence would > set $@, but that obviously is not the case. > > This eval{do{return}} is related to my recent toyings with self- > modifying code. > > Belden Belden, Well, that seems a reasonable assumption. But after reading the two passages I quoted, I now believe that return is legal within an eval without needing to be part of a subroutine. If that is the case, the return in the example does not cause an error hence there is no call on die. Is that what you've concluded too? I'm guessing, you'll be using the eval EXPR form of eval in your self-modifying code since the documentation says the eval BLOCK form of eval is compiled only once. Is that so? Your "toyings" sound very interesting. If there are some key insights you feel like sharing here at some point, that would be most kool. -- George From blyman at iii.com Thu May 29 11:30:26 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] untrappable perl errors References: <3ED4F847.10704@iii.com> <200305281321.26577.george@metaart.org> <3ED527A2.9070400@iii.com> <200305281743.42915.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3ED635A2.9070704@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > > Belden, > Well, that seems a reasonable assumption. > But after reading the two passages I quoted, > I now believe that return is legal within an eval > without needing to be part of a subroutine. > If that is the case, > the return in the example does not cause an error > hence there is no call on die. > Is that what you've concluded too? Aha! That time what you were saying "clicked". Thanks for persisting :) > > I'm guessing, you'll be using the eval EXPR form of eval > in your self-modifying code > since the documentation says the eval BLOCK form of eval > is compiled only once. > Is that so? > That's right. Like everything, though, I learned that the hard way ("why can't I change this subroutine and re-install it?!"). > Your "toyings" sound very interesting. > If there are some key insights you feel like sharing here > at some point, > that would be most kool. > "Read and understand the docs" certainly applies to me right now... Belden From george at metaart.org Thu May 29 12:42:24 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] untrappable perl errors In-Reply-To: <3ED635A2.9070704@iii.com> References: <3ED4F847.10704@iii.com> <200305281743.42915.george@metaart.org> <3ED635A2.9070704@iii.com> Message-ID: <200305291042.24500.george@metaart.org> On Thursday 29 May 2003 9:30 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > ... > Aha! That time what you were saying "clicked". Thanks > for persisting :) > ... > Belden Well, I had no idea that returns functioned that way in an eval until I looked up eval and return in the Functions Chapter of Programming Perl. Thanks for bringing this subject up! George From cpm at bitbucket.com Thu May 29 19:02:50 2003 From: cpm at bitbucket.com (Craig McLaughlin) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Just curious... Message-ID: <1054252971.5406.85.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> ... if anyone's played with Mason (http://www.masonhq.com). Aside from me, that is. Misery is finally finding a wonderful way to do really cool web pages in perl and then remembering that one has the web-design skills of a rock. Cheers, --Craig From george at metaart.org Thu May 29 19:33:32 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Just curious... In-Reply-To: <1054252971.5406.85.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> References: <1054252971.5406.85.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> Message-ID: <200305291733.33139.george@metaart.org> On Thursday 29 May 2003 5:02 pm, Craig McLaughlin wrote: > ... if anyone's played with Mason (http://www.masonhq.com). Aside from > me, that is. > > Misery is finally finding a wonderful way to do really cool web pages in > perl and then remembering that one has the web-design skills of a rock. > > Cheers, > --Craig I have not played with Mason. However, some time ago, the O'Reilly user group program, gave us 6 books. I believe David Fetter ended up with "Embedding Perl with Mason". He may have played with Mason. So, have you done something with Mason you are up for telling us a bit about? Hm, do your web pages, perhaps, rock? George From david at kineticode.com Thu May 29 19:22:48 2003 From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Just curious... In-Reply-To: <1054252971.5406.85.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 05:02 PM, Craig McLaughlin wrote: > ... if anyone's played with Mason (http://www.masonhq.com). Aside from > me, that is. I have. It's also the templating language of choice in Bricolage. http://bricolage.cc/ > Misery is finally finding a wonderful way to do really cool web pages > in > perl and then remembering that one has the web-design skills of a rock. Yeah, it helps to know someone with web design chops. David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory david@kineticode.com ICQ: 15726394 http://kineticode.com/ Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: Theory@jabber.org Kineticode. Setting knowledge in motion.[sm] From george at metaart.org Fri May 30 00:49:15 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Newsletter of 2003-05-29 Message-ID: <200305292249.15371.george@metaart.org> The O'Reilly UG newsletter of 2003-05-29 is on our site at http://oakland.pm.org/oreilly/2003/newsletter_20030529.txt should you wish to read it. From cpm at bitbucket.com Fri May 30 14:44:19 2003 From: cpm at bitbucket.com (Craig McLaughlin) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Just curious... In-Reply-To: <200305291733.33139.george@metaart.org> References: <1054252971.5406.85.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> <200305291733.33139.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <1054323859.3252.15.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 17:33, George Woolley wrote: > So, have you done something with Mason > you are up for telling us a bit about? Well, I'm working on a few things with it, but nothing's complete yet. At the moment, I'm working on a distributed storage system. Although peers in the system will usually communicate amongst themselves, I'm using a web-application (in Perl/Mason) for a "Web" interface to the store. I'll be happy to keep anyone who cares about such things informed as / if / when I make progress. > Hm, do your web pages, perhaps, rock? They do, if by "rock" you mean "sink like a ... " :) I'm okay on coding backends, and even figuring out layout... but once you get into the *design* elements, including CSS, graphics, colors... well... Not My Thing. :) --Craig From cpm at bitbucket.com Fri May 30 14:45:20 2003 From: cpm at bitbucket.com (Craig McLaughlin) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:31 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Just curious... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1054323920.3279.18.camel@sith.bitbucket.com> On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 17:22, David Wheeler wrote: > I have. It's also the templating language of choice in Bricolage. > > http://bricolage.cc/ Yeah, I've been playing with Bricolage a lot. Kind of the poster-child app for Mason, isn't it? :) > > Misery is finally finding a wonderful way to do really cool web pages > > in > > perl and then remembering that one has the web-design skills of a rock. > > Yeah, it helps to know someone with web design chops. Tell me about it. :) I'm an infrastructure kind of guy, not a front-end kind of guy. --Craig