From rehsack at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  7 03:43:13 2014
From: rehsack at googlemail.com (Jens Rehsack)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 12:43:13 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?2014_=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=F6schen_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?will=29?=
Message-ID: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>

Aloah,
-------------- nächster Teil --------------
Ein Dateianhang mit Binärdaten wurde abgetrennt...
Dateiname   : niederrhein.pm.ics
Dateityp    : text/calendar
Dateigröße  : 3344 bytes
Beschreibung: nicht verfügbar
URL         : <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/niederrhein-pm/attachments/20141007/a11c9649/attachment.bin>
-------------- nächster Teil --------------

[English version follows the German text]

Niederrhein.pm bezeichnet eine Gruppe von Freunden der Programmiersprache Perl aus der geografischen Region des ehemaligen Herzogtums Niederrhein.

Diese Gruppe organisiert regelmäßige Treffen zu denen jeder Freund der Programmiersprache Perl und Interessierte willkommen ist. Bei diesen Treffen werden Neuigkeiten, Informationen und Erfahrungen bezüglich Perl und CPAN ausgetauscht oder aufgenommen (wer nicht tauschen möchte, sondern nur lernen, ist ebenso gern gesehen).

Das Treffen ist normalerweise jeden dritten Dienstag der Monat. Wir reden auf deutsch, englisch, holländisch, russisch und was die Weltsprachen so hergeben, je nach Bedarf und Gusto der Teilnehmer. Da die Region Niederrhein aber vornehmlich deutschsprachige Gäste anzieht, ist deutsch die vorherrschende Sprache.

Das nächste Treffen ist auf Dienstag, den 21.10.2014 um 18:30-23:00 Uhr bei Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln, terminiert.
Siehe http://www.railslove.com/contact/ für Kontakt- und andere Information.

Wir treffen uns zwischen 18:00 und 18:30 in Railslove und entscheiden dann ob wir zusammen in einem der umliegenden Restaurants Essen gehen oder ob wir irgendwo etwas zu Essen holen.

Besuche auch http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM für weitere Informationen.


[English version]

Niederrhein.pm stands for the Niederrhein Perl Mongers. We're basically a Perl user group. Despite its name, it is not local to the Niederrhein environment, but it welcomes Perl mongers from all over Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and beyond.

Niederrhein.pm organizes informal meetings where Perl users can meet, and exchange information and experiences with regard to using Perl.

The meetings are normally held every third Tuesday of the month. Although the preferred language for communication is German, English, Dutch or Russian will be spoken if necessary.

Our next meeting is Tuesday, 21th of October 2014, from 18:30 till 23:00 at Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln.
See http://www.railslove.com/contact/ for more information.

If you want to join some of us for dinner, please gather between 18:00 and 18:30 at Railslove.  We will decide if we would go together to one of the many restaurants in the neighbourhood, or if somebody would get some takeaway.

See http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM for more details.

Cheers
-- 
Jens Rehsack
rehsack at gmail.com






From rehsack at googlemail.com  Thu Oct 16 21:05:11 2014
From: rehsack at googlemail.com (Jens Rehsack)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 06:05:11 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?2014_=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=F6schen_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>

No response (beside Rolands private message) means the mailing list is dead and meetup.com will be the promising successor?

Am 07.10.2014 um 12:43 schrieb Jens Rehsack <rehsack at googlemail.com>:

> Aloah,
> <niederrhein.pm.ics>
> [English version follows the German text]
> 
> Niederrhein.pm bezeichnet eine Gruppe von Freunden der Programmiersprache Perl aus der geografischen Region des ehemaligen Herzogtums Niederrhein.
> 
> Diese Gruppe organisiert regelmäßige Treffen zu denen jeder Freund der Programmiersprache Perl und Interessierte willkommen ist. Bei diesen Treffen werden Neuigkeiten, Informationen und Erfahrungen bezüglich Perl und CPAN ausgetauscht oder aufgenommen (wer nicht tauschen möchte, sondern nur lernen, ist ebenso gern gesehen).
> 
> Das Treffen ist normalerweise jeden dritten Dienstag der Monat. Wir reden auf deutsch, englisch, holländisch, russisch und was die Weltsprachen so hergeben, je nach Bedarf und Gusto der Teilnehmer. Da die Region Niederrhein aber vornehmlich deutschsprachige Gäste anzieht, ist deutsch die vorherrschende Sprache.
> 
> Das nächste Treffen ist auf Dienstag, den 21.10.2014 um 18:30-23:00 Uhr bei Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln, terminiert.
> Siehe http://www.railslove.com/contact/ für Kontakt- und andere Information.
> 
> Wir treffen uns zwischen 18:00 und 18:30 in Railslove und entscheiden dann ob wir zusammen in einem der umliegenden Restaurants Essen gehen oder ob wir irgendwo etwas zu Essen holen.
> 
> Besuche auch http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM für weitere Informationen.
> 
> 
> [English version]
> 
> Niederrhein.pm stands for the Niederrhein Perl Mongers. We're basically a Perl user group. Despite its name, it is not local to the Niederrhein environment, but it welcomes Perl mongers from all over Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and beyond.
> 
> Niederrhein.pm organizes informal meetings where Perl users can meet, and exchange information and experiences with regard to using Perl.
> 
> The meetings are normally held every third Tuesday of the month. Although the preferred language for communication is German, English, Dutch or Russian will be spoken if necessary.
> 
> Our next meeting is Tuesday, 21th of October 2014, from 18:30 till 23:00 at Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln.
> See http://www.railslove.com/contact/ for more information.
> 
> If you want to join some of us for dinner, please gather between 18:00 and 18:30 at Railslove.  We will decide if we would go together to one of the many restaurants in the neighbourhood, or if somebody would get some takeaway.
> 
> See http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM for more details.

-- 
Jens Rehsack
rehsack at gmail.com






From pagaltzis at gmx.de  Fri Oct 17 07:46:40 2014
From: pagaltzis at gmx.de (Aristotle Pagaltzis)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:46:40 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] Test
Message-ID: <20141017144640.GC35117@plasmasturm.org>

Kommt diese Mail durch?

-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>

From jens.gassmann at atomix.de  Fri Oct 17 08:07:19 2014
From: jens.gassmann at atomix.de (Jens Gassmann)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 17:07:19 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] Test
In-Reply-To: <20141017144640.GC35117@plasmasturm.org>
References: <20141017144640.GC35117@plasmasturm.org>
Message-ID: <544130A7.8030100@atomix.de>

und auch hier ;)

Am 17.10.2014 um 16:46 schrieb Aristotle Pagaltzis:
> Kommt diese Mail durch?
>

-- 
Freiberuflicher Software-Entwickler
Büro: 02271/462009 Skype: jens.gassmann E-Mail: jens.gassmann at atomix.de

From rehsack at googlemail.com  Fri Oct 17 11:27:47 2014
From: rehsack at googlemail.com (Jens Rehsack)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 20:27:47 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] Test
In-Reply-To: <544130A7.8030100@atomix.de>
References: <20141017144640.GC35117@plasmasturm.org>
	<544130A7.8030100@atomix.de>
Message-ID: <76E2F3A1-2514-4A79-B943-1D22867C400B@googlemail.com>


Am 17.10.2014 um 17:07 schrieb Jens Gassmann <jens.gassmann at atomix.de>:

> und auch hier ;)
> 
> Am 17.10.2014 um 16:46 schrieb Aristotle Pagaltzis:
>> Kommt diese Mail durch?

Scheint so :D

Cheers
-- 
Jens Rehsack
rehsack at gmail.com






From pagaltzis at gmx.de  Fri Oct 17 11:32:56 2014
From: pagaltzis at gmx.de (Aristotle Pagaltzis)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 20:32:56 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?utf-8?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_2014_?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=C3=B6schen_will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <20141017183256.GA36880@plasmasturm.org>

Hi Jens,

* Jens Rehsack <rehsack at googlemail.com> [2014-10-17 06:10]:
> No response (beside Rolands private message) means the mailing list is
> dead and meetup.com will be the promising successor?

well I had no intention of getting a meetup.com account. And no response
just means I intend to be there as usual.

(Since I?ve long put the date in my iCal, I don?t need the announcement
on the mailing list to alert me, either. It?s still useful, though ? to
confirm that the meeting has not been rescheduled or cancelled.)

-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>

From sch.r at web.de  Fri Oct 17 11:46:33 2014
From: sch.r at web.de (Roland Schmitz)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 20:46:33 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
	=?utf-8?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_2014_?=
	=?utf-8?q?=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=C3=B6schen_?=
	=?utf-8?q?will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <1956860.1r18qYkutK@meteor>

Am Freitag, 17. Oktober 2014, 06:05:11 schrieb Jens Rehsack:
> No response (beside Rolands private message) means the mailing list is dead
> and meetup.com will be the promising successor?
Answering privatley was not my goal, it was a mistake. To me it's not 
essential who's the successor.

Roland


> Am 07.10.2014 um 12:43 schrieb Jens Rehsack <rehsack at googlemail.com>:
> > Aloah,
> > <niederrhein.pm.ics>
> > [English version follows the German text]
> > 
> > Niederrhein.pm bezeichnet eine Gruppe von Freunden der Programmiersprache
> > Perl aus der geografischen Region des ehemaligen Herzogtums Niederrhein.
> > 
> > Diese Gruppe organisiert regelmäßige Treffen zu denen jeder Freund der
> > Programmiersprache Perl und Interessierte willkommen ist. Bei diesen
> > Treffen werden Neuigkeiten, Informationen und Erfahrungen bezüglich Perl
> > und CPAN ausgetauscht oder aufgenommen (wer nicht tauschen möchte,
> > sondern nur lernen, ist ebenso gern gesehen).
> > 
> > Das Treffen ist normalerweise jeden dritten Dienstag der Monat. Wir reden
> > auf deutsch, englisch, holländisch, russisch und was die Weltsprachen so
> > hergeben, je nach Bedarf und Gusto der Teilnehmer. Da die Region
> > Niederrhein aber vornehmlich deutschsprachige Gäste anzieht, ist deutsch
> > die vorherrschende Sprache.
> > 
> > Das nächste Treffen ist auf Dienstag, den 21.10.2014 um 18:30-23:00 Uhr
> > bei Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln, terminiert. Siehe
> > http://www.railslove.com/contact/ für Kontakt- und andere Information.
> > 
> > Wir treffen uns zwischen 18:00 und 18:30 in Railslove und entscheiden dann
> > ob wir zusammen in einem der umliegenden Restaurants Essen gehen oder ob
> > wir irgendwo etwas zu Essen holen.
> > 
> > Besuche auch http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM für weitere
> > Informationen.
> > 
> > 
> > [English version]
> > 
> > Niederrhein.pm stands for the Niederrhein Perl Mongers. We're basically a
> > Perl user group. Despite its name, it is not local to the Niederrhein
> > environment, but it welcomes Perl mongers from all over Germany, the
> > Netherlands, Belgium and beyond.
> > 
> > Niederrhein.pm organizes informal meetings where Perl users can meet, and
> > exchange information and experiences with regard to using Perl.
> > 
> > The meetings are normally held every third Tuesday of the month. Although
> > the preferred language for communication is German, English, Dutch or
> > Russian will be spoken if necessary.
> > 
> > Our next meeting is Tuesday, 21th of October 2014, from 18:30 till 23:00
> > at Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln. See
> > http://www.railslove.com/contact/ for more information.
> > 
> > If you want to join some of us for dinner, please gather between 18:00 and
> > 18:30 at Railslove.  We will decide if we would go together to one of the
> > many restaurants in the neighbourhood, or if somebody would get some
> > takeaway.
> > 
> > See http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM for more details.

-- 
Mit freundlichem Gruss    Yours sincerely

  Roland Schmitz
-------------- nächster Teil --------------
Ein Dateianhang mit HTML-Daten wurde abgetrennt...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/niederrhein-pm/attachments/20141017/1596b3c2/attachment-0001.html>

From pub+perl at wt.tuxomania.net  Fri Oct 17 12:48:33 2014
From: pub+perl at wt.tuxomania.net (=?UTF-8?B?V2luZnJpZWQgVHLDvG1wZXI=?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:48:33 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] Treffen am 21.10.2014 (was: longer)
In-Reply-To: <8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <54417291.1070709@wt.tuxomania.net>

Hi Jens,

I appreciate your efforts in house keeping. Though I disagree in an important detail. What has been dead for long is the brand name niederrhein.pm. It makes no sense to ride dead horses, dead camels or dead brand names. It's not a matter of finding a better platform for them. Niederrhein at Meetup amplifies all problems associated with Niederrhein.pm. Two competing Niederrhein.pms are the worst you can head for, because you're in a weaker official position.

The current administrator of niederrhein.pm.org has been unresponsive for years. The information he offers on the website is misleading. It's a snapshot from a more glory past which is irrelevant for its present or future. He didn't respond to a personal message. It was explained to me that and why communication over the issues of niederrhein.pm has been broken down generally. IMHO there is no point in taking niederrhein.pm any further, because nobody exercises control over it. Drop it.

On the bright side, it offers the chance to solve an old branding dilemma: Cologne belonged to Niederrhein only 200 years ago. But not in today's perception. Or only according to hardly known criteria like the Sieg river mouth. Niederrhein at Meetup? Not relevant to me. Too far to drive from Cologne.

The current situation: an active core of Perl programmers maintains a monthly meeting in Cologne. This mailinglist was one of the technical platforms for distributing announcements. But it's no longer required and there are many alternatives. The town is located in the beautiful state of Nordrhein Westfalen. It would be consequent and intuitive to brand the activities of the group as Nordrhein Perl Programmers ("Nordrhein PP") and an entry "Nordrhein" at www.pm.org. (The shorter nordrhein.pm would require  the effort of registering a .pm domain name like Hannover.pm or Frankfurt.pm.)

Make it a sharp brand. I prefer "programmers" over "user group". Down to the most specific designation. "Mongers" acts like a filter for people who know a lot about Perl already.
A map of what Nordrhein is considered geographically: http://www.aekno.de/images/aekno/verbund_02-00.png Even covers Roland.

Meetup looks like Google Groups plus Google Sites. That makes sense, though it doesn't convince me. It appears to be too much already. Maybe I change my mind.
In the meantime I created https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nordrhein-perl-programmers and asked the pm.org maintainers to create a redirect.
However, both will be deleted after the November meeting unless (1) Jens and Peter are convinced and (2) the active majority of the group is convinced about this move.
["Convinced" = Jens and Peter take the administrative roles, I step down]

Google groups allows subscription and submission by e-mail even without a Google account. Feel free to subscribe, but remember that it is a test bed only.

The high redundancy of information has been a problem for me. One can read a lot; in the end it boils down to little. Tiring and reducing the attractiveness of this group. You noticed I shortened the subject line as an example. The target audience is used to consume condensed information (in form of programs). The text for the announcement could be: "The Nordrhein Perl Programmers meet every third Tuesday of the month. Meetings are open to anybody interested in Perl programming. You'll encounter a mix of presentations, current affairs, and open discussion. You're welcome whether you plan to participate actively or passively (just listenting). Although German is the preferred language for communication, English, Dutch, or Russian are spoken as well. For details about upcoming meetings see below."

Confirmed next meeting:
Date: 21.10.2014
Time: 18:30 h
Location: Railslove, Cologne

Anticipated schedule of future meetings:
18.11.2014
16.12.2014
20.01.2015


I agree with Aristotle that the Meetup automatism with unreadable attachments isn't helpful. Enforcing a Meetup account is a higher barrier than having an e-mail address. On the other hand, if Meetup brings more new activists than a traditional mailinglist, that is a strong argument for accepting the higher barrier. With Meetup the "count me in" messages are separate from the discussion. Again, it makes a lot of sense, though it might not be perfect. But not as Niederrhein at Meetup, as explained above.

I hope this message will help Jens in his efforts of taking the user group further.


Regards
-W.

From rehsack at googlemail.com  Sat Oct 18 00:55:05 2014
From: rehsack at googlemail.com (Jens Rehsack)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 09:55:05 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?windows-1252?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktobe?=
 =?windows-1252?q?r_2014_=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=F6sc?=
 =?windows-1252?q?hen_will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <20141017183256.GA36880@plasmasturm.org>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
	<20141017183256.GA36880@plasmasturm.org>
Message-ID: <AA5418D2-4EED-42C0-9729-CAF9EE509E53@googlemail.com>


Am 17.10.2014 um 20:32 schrieb Aristotle Pagaltzis <pagaltzis at gmx.de>:

> Hi Jens,
> 
> * Jens Rehsack <rehsack at googlemail.com> [2014-10-17 06:10]:
>> No response (beside Rolands private message) means the mailing list is
>> dead and meetup.com will be the promising successor?
> 
> well I had no intention of getting a meetup.com account.

You will do ribasushi a personal favor :)

> And no response just means I intend to be there as usual.

You're the only one in that case - most other's in case of no
response will not attend. For my planning and the negotiation
with railslove it is important to know who will attend and when.

> (Since I?ve long put the date in my iCal, I don?t need the announcement
> on the mailing list to alert me, either. It?s still useful, though ? to
> confirm that the meeting has not been rescheduled or cancelled.)

:D

Cheers
-- 
Jens Rehsack
rehsack at gmail.com






From rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us  Sat Oct 18 09:05:03 2014
From: rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us (Peter Rabbitson)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:05:03 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?utf-8?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_2014_?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=C3=B6schen_will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>

I am adding the original re-founder T. Raudssus to the thread

On 10/17/2014 06:05 AM, Jens Rehsack wrote:
> No response (beside Rolands private message) means the mailing list is dead and meetup.com will be the promising successor?

I think the disconnect here is that this is an un-obvious question. I.e. 
it's a "I wonder if", not an "ah fuck it - the list is useless anyway".

On a personal note - I never reply to "announcement" emails - I am too 
far behind on my correspondence without taking these "checkmarks" into 
account. The only reason I take care of RSVP-ing on the meetup site is 
so that random observers can see that the group is alive.

Concerning titles etc: I personally do not (and never did) consider 
myself a leader or even a coorganizer of the current reincarnation of 
the group. The reason meetup lists me as a organizer is because of the 
"1st come" model, and because I am paying the 10EUR/mo to keep the 
listing running. I did add the extra "venue" of meetup.com not in order 
to make it harder/easier for existing members, but because I saw it as 
an opportunity to raise awareness of "there is a group that does X". 
Consider the following search (no login necessary):

http://www.meetup.com/find/?keywords=programming&radius=10&userFreeform=K%C3%B6ln%2C+Germany

And it did somewhat work - there were at least 3 new members that I know 
of that visited our little meetups. Keep in mind that it's not my 
personal goal to grow our numbers (more on this below). In short I am 
not in any way married to the idea, so if most people really *dislike* 
the virtually free advertisement we get through meetup - maybe I should 
kill the account. I am open to ideas either way (including handing it 
over/adding more orgas).

A far as the name goes - I never cared ;) So I have no vote in the 
question posed by Winfried. I do know however that both Torsten and Jens 
have strong opinions on name/location so I would recommend treading 
lightly, as this is a surprisingly explosive subject.

Now to address the central issue (which is - what do you want your pm 
group to be). I already mentioned that I do not consider myself a 
central figure of the meetup. I visit it as often as I visit the 
AmsteramX group, and I do both for the simple purpose of maintaining 
long established ties, and possibly (but not necessarily) form new ones 
on occasion. That is - visiting allows me to stay in touch with the 
fringes of my echo chamber, and also gives me an opportunity to "blabber 
about tech" in-person (which is something I lack as a telecommuter). One 
important point is that I do not come with the expectation of learning a 
lot of new things - simply due to my "seniority" or whatever it may be 
called. That is - I am pleasantly surprised when I hear about something 
exceedingly cool, but do not expect it as a prerequisite.

What makes me tick obviously can not work for everyone. I should point 
out that in a general sense our current format is rather unwelcoming to 
someone with a family and a multitude other obligations. As it was 
correctly noted in one of the subthreads - talking about 
not-announced-in-advance stuff over pizza does not sound to appealing if 
you just came from 8 hours in the office. But before attempting to deal 
with this general problem, the current group needs to figure out if it 
*wants* to deal with it.

So what do you want your pm to be?

To summarize my personal pov - I find the group ok-ish as is, while at 
the same time I do not see obvious avenues for it to grow in its current 
state. With that said I am explicitly not opposed to any 
format/agenda/name/other changes, and for the group to pursue higher 
numbers, higher professionalism, or whathave you. The important point is 
that even if the current state of things has apparent leaders, I am 
definitely not one of them, nor does my schedule allow me to take a more 
active role in the future.

What do *you* think? :)


From nl.pm at wendy.org  Sun Oct 19 10:23:50 2014
From: nl.pm at wendy.org (Wendy G.A. van Dijk)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 19:23:50 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?_Re=3A__Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Oktober__2014_=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=F6schen__will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <367998449373141@otje>

Nope, not dead, message received.
Liz and I were planning to come to Köln.
I thought I replied some time ago, telling you we would come.
Been busy with Austrian Perl Workshop and some 
personal time-consuming travels and visits.
See you Tuesday, I hope.
Kind regards,
Wendy


At 06:05 AM 10/17/2014, Jens Rehsack wrote:
 >No response (beside Rolands private message) means the mailing list is
 >dead and meetup.com will be the promising successor?
 >
 >Am 07.10.2014 um 12:43 schrieb Jens Rehsack <rehsack at googlemail.com>:
 >
 >> Aloah,
 >> <niederrhein.pm.ics>
 >> [English version follows the German text]
 >>
 >> Niederrhein.pm bezeichnet eine Gruppe von Freunden der
 >Programmiersprache Perl aus der geografischen Region des ehemaligen
 >Herzogtums Niederrhein.
 >>
 >> Diese Gruppe organisiert regelmäßige Treffen zu denen jeder Freund
 >der Programmiersprache Perl und Interessierte willkommen ist. Bei
 >diesen Treffen werden Neuigkeiten, Informationen und Erfahrungen
 >bezüglich Perl und CPAN ausgetauscht oder aufgenommen (wer nicht
 >tauschen möchte, sondern nur lernen, ist ebenso gern gesehen).
 >>
 >> Das Treffen ist normalerweise jeden dritten Dienstag der Monat. Wir
 >reden auf deutsch, englisch, holländisch, russisch und was die
 >Weltsprachen so hergeben, je nach Bedarf und Gusto der Teilnehmer. Da
 >die Region Niederrhein aber vornehmlich deutschsprachige Gäste
 >anzieht, ist deutsch die vorherrschende Sprache.
 >>
 >> Das nächste Treffen ist auf Dienstag, den 21.10.2014 um 18:30-23:00
 >Uhr bei Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln, terminiert.
 >> Siehe http://www.railslove.com/contact/ für 
Kontakt- und andere Information.
 >>
 >> Wir treffen uns zwischen 18:00 und 18:30 in Railslove und
 >entscheiden dann ob wir zusammen in einem der umliegenden Restaurants
 >Essen gehen oder ob wir irgendwo etwas zu Essen holen.
 >>
 >> Besuche auch http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM für weitere Informationen.
 >>
 >>
 >> [English version]
 >>
 >> Niederrhein.pm stands for the Niederrhein Perl Mongers. We're
 >basically a Perl user group. Despite its name, it is not local to the
 >Niederrhein environment, but it welcomes Perl mongers from all over
 >Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and beyond.
 >>
 >> Niederrhein.pm organizes informal meetings where Perl users can
 >meet, and exchange information and experiences with regard to using Perl.
 >>
 >> The meetings are normally held every third Tuesday of the month.
 >Although the preferred language for communication is German, English,
 >Dutch or Russian will be spoken if necessary.
 >>
 >> Our next meeting is Tuesday, 21th of October 2014, from 18:30 till
 >23:00 at Railslove, An der Bottmühle 5, 50678 Köln.
 >> See http://www.railslove.com/contact/ for more information.
 >>
 >> If you want to join some of us for dinner, please gather between
 >18:00 and 18:30 at Railslove.  We will decide if we would go together
 >to one of the many restaurants in the neighbourhood, or if somebody
 >would get some takeaway.
 >>
 >> See http://www.meetup.com/NiederrheinPM for more details.
 >
 >--
 >Jens Rehsack
 >rehsack at gmail.com
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >_______________________________________________
 >Niederrhein-pm mailing list
 >Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
 >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm


From pagaltzis at gmx.de  Tue Oct 21 02:26:42 2014
From: pagaltzis at gmx.de (Aristotle Pagaltzis)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:26:42 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?utf-8?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_2014_?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=C3=B6schen_will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>
Message-ID: <20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>

* Peter Rabbitson <rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us> [2014-10-18 18:10]:
> In short I am not in any way married to the idea, so if most people
> really *dislike* the virtually free advertisement we get through
> meetup - maybe I should kill the account. I am open to ideas either
> way (including handing it over/adding more orgas).

FWIW since I publicly stated my lack of intention to get an account on
meetup.com, I should add it is not due to any objection to the listing
itself, nor to the site. (I simply dislike opening accounts in general.)

From nl.pm at wendy.org  Tue Oct 21 05:18:03 2014
From: nl.pm at wendy.org (Wendy G.A. van Dijk)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:18:03 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?2014_am_18=3A00_at_LoveRails_in_K=F6ln?=
In-Reply-To: <20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>
	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>
	<20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>
Message-ID: <380186983983141@otje>

At 11:26 AM 10/21/2014, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
 >* Peter Rabbitson <rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us> [2014-10-18 18:10]:
 >> In short I am not in any way married to the idea, so if most people
 >> really *dislike* the virtually free advertisement we get through
 >> meetup - maybe I should kill the account. I am open to ideas either
 >> way (including handing it over/adding more orgas).
 >
 >FWIW since I publicly stated my lack of intention to get an account on
 >meetup.com, I should add it is not due to any objection to the listing
 >itself, nor to the site. (I simply dislike opening accounts in general.)

I am with Aristotle on this.  I already have way too many accounts 
that I hardly use (in most cases just for one specific use with low 
traffic), and several accounts that I really really use a lot.  One 
more would not hurt, of course, but I have been cleaning house, as in 
closing dozens of accounts this year.

I know very well that we could communicate a bit more on this 
mailinglist.  We could ask people to come to the meetings with a bit 
more pressure (as in, Perl people react to pressure in meaningful 
ways...  eh, I mean "please please come") and we could post summaries 
of what happened at the meeting.  We could urge people more to give 
presentations.

To give the right example...   I prepared a discussion topic for 
tonight.  About Perl 6 and when it will be Christmas.  Let's see if 
people are interested.

See you all tonight.  Please, please, come, give a technical 
presentation (or have a subject to discuss).

Greetz,
Wendy van Dijk


From johannes.markert at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 06:21:24 2014
From: johannes.markert at gmail.com (Johannes Markert)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:21:24 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?windows-1252?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktobe?=
 =?windows-1252?q?r_2014_am_18=3A00_at_LoveRails_in_K=F6ln?=
In-Reply-To: <380186983983141@otje>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>	<20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>
	<380186983983141@otje>
Message-ID: <54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>

Hey there!

After so many heartwarming statements during the last days,
I have to give you all at least a little response. ;-)

Your maillinglist doesn't seem dead to me and I'm following -
' pretty sure others do as well.

One comment on this meetup.com thing:
I'm definitely not interested in registering there. Maillinglists
just work fine for me. It is the most convinient
way to stay in touch with a user group I can think of.

What concerns me more is the shameful lack of a nice little website.
Nothing too fancy and complicated. Just some pictures, an overview
when and where there were the last meetings and what has been discussed
there. This should do it. As far as I see it, our target group is not a
big fan of social networks anyway. They (and we of course!) prefer
the old fashioned way. Keep it simple and stupid!
I'm looking forward to debate this with you tonight!

By the way, all user groups I attended so far have the same issue
we are discussing here in one way or the other. ;-D

Cheers,
Johannes

PS: @Wendy: I cannot wait to listen to what you have to say about Perl 
6. :-D

PSS: Does anyone has any insights into Perl/TK? I have some questions 
about that.

On 10/21/2014 02:18 PM, Wendy G.A. van Dijk wrote:
> At 11:26 AM 10/21/2014, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
> >* Peter Rabbitson <rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us> [2014-10-18 18:10]:
> >> In short I am not in any way married to the idea, so if most people
> >> really *dislike* the virtually free advertisement we get through
> >> meetup - maybe I should kill the account. I am open to ideas either
> >> way (including handing it over/adding more orgas).
> >
> >FWIW since I publicly stated my lack of intention to get an account on
> >meetup.com, I should add it is not due to any objection to the listing
> >itself, nor to the site. (I simply dislike opening accounts in general.)
>
> I am with Aristotle on this.  I already have way too many accounts 
> that I hardly use (in most cases just for one specific use with low 
> traffic), and several accounts that I really really use a lot.  One 
> more would not hurt, of course, but I have been cleaning house, as in 
> closing dozens of accounts this year.
>
> I know very well that we could communicate a bit more on this 
> mailinglist.  We could ask people to come to the meetings with a bit 
> more pressure (as in, Perl people react to pressure in meaningful 
> ways...  eh, I mean "please please come") and we could post summaries 
> of what happened at the meeting.  We could urge people more to give 
> presentations.
>
> To give the right example...   I prepared a discussion topic for 
> tonight.  About Perl 6 and when it will be Christmas.  Let's see if 
> people are interested.
>
> See you all tonight.  Please, please, come, give a technical 
> presentation (or have a subject to discuss).
>
> Greetz,
> Wendy van Dijk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Niederrhein-pm mailing list
> Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm


From rehsack at googlemail.com  Tue Oct 21 06:36:25 2014
From: rehsack at googlemail.com (Jens Rehsack)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:36:25 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?2014_am_18=3A00_at_LoveRails_in_K=F6ln?=
In-Reply-To: <54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>	<20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>
	<380186983983141@otje> <54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77DD2930-DB3C-4896-940C-C34DC8BCF6D7@googlemail.com>

Aloah,

No one is or had been forced to register at Meetup.com
It's just the huge amount of people who are neither on the mailing list nor
on Meetup who are asked whether one or the other registration would be neat
to give us response who's joining the next meeting or not.

When we exceed the 10 people regularly, we should start caring for more
seats for peaks ...
When no one is coming, it's nice to know before that the meeting organizer
(usually one from core team) knows that a travel of 1-2h per direction can
be avoided.

Replying last 12 month, we had no unvisited date - but the months before
were not such successful. To avoid demotivation of organizers during holiday
and travel times, it's an act of courtesy to tell organizers "you're alone
tonight" :P

Cheers

Am 21.10.2014 um 15:21 schrieb Johannes Markert <johannes.markert at gmail.com>:

> Hey there!
> 
> After so many heartwarming statements during the last days,
> I have to give you all at least a little response. ;-)
> 
> Your maillinglist doesn't seem dead to me and I'm following -
> ' pretty sure others do as well.
> 
> One comment on this meetup.com thing:
> I'm definitely not interested in registering there. Maillinglists
> just work fine for me. It is the most convinient
> way to stay in touch with a user group I can think of.
> 
> What concerns me more is the shameful lack of a nice little website.
> Nothing too fancy and complicated. Just some pictures, an overview
> when and where there were the last meetings and what has been discussed
> there. This should do it. As far as I see it, our target group is not a
> big fan of social networks anyway. They (and we of course!) prefer
> the old fashioned way. Keep it simple and stupid!
> I'm looking forward to debate this with you tonight!
> 
> By the way, all user groups I attended so far have the same issue
> we are discussing here in one way or the other. ;-D
> 
> Cheers,
> Johannes
> 
> PS: @Wendy: I cannot wait to listen to what you have to say about Perl 6. :-D
> 
> PSS: Does anyone has any insights into Perl/TK? I have some questions about that.
> 
> On 10/21/2014 02:18 PM, Wendy G.A. van Dijk wrote:
>> At 11:26 AM 10/21/2014, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
>> >* Peter Rabbitson <rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us> [2014-10-18 18:10]:
>> >> In short I am not in any way married to the idea, so if most people
>> >> really *dislike* the virtually free advertisement we get through
>> >> meetup - maybe I should kill the account. I am open to ideas either
>> >> way (including handing it over/adding more orgas).
>> >
>> >FWIW since I publicly stated my lack of intention to get an account on
>> >meetup.com, I should add it is not due to any objection to the listing
>> >itself, nor to the site. (I simply dislike opening accounts in general.)
>> 
>> I am with Aristotle on this.  I already have way too many accounts that I hardly use (in most cases just for one specific use with low traffic), and several accounts that I really really use a lot.  One more would not hurt, of course, but I have been cleaning house, as in closing dozens of accounts this year.
>> 
>> I know very well that we could communicate a bit more on this mailinglist.  We could ask people to come to the meetings with a bit more pressure (as in, Perl people react to pressure in meaningful ways...  eh, I mean "please please come") and we could post summaries of what happened at the meeting.  We could urge people more to give presentations.
>> 
>> To give the right example...   I prepared a discussion topic for tonight.  About Perl 6 and when it will be Christmas.  Let's see if people are interested.
>> 
>> See you all tonight.  Please, please, come, give a technical presentation (or have a subject to discuss).
>> 
>> Greetz,
>> Wendy van Dijk
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Niederrhein-pm mailing list
>> Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Niederrhein-pm mailing list
> Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm

-- 
Jens Rehsack
rehsack at gmail.com






From sch.r at web.de  Tue Oct 21 06:46:24 2014
From: sch.r at web.de (Roland Schmitz)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:46:24 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?windows-1252?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktobe?=
 =?windows-1252?q?r_2014_am_18=3A00_at_LoveRails_in_K=F6ln?=
In-Reply-To: <77DD2930-DB3C-4896-940C-C34DC8BCF6D7@googlemail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>	<20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>	<380186983983141@otje>
	<54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>
	<77DD2930-DB3C-4896-940C-C34DC8BCF6D7@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <544663B0.6080804@web.de>

Juhu,

a) ich komme nicht im Oktober, vermutlich auch den Rest des Jahres nicht :-(
b) der Treffpunkt heißt Railslove, nicht LoveRails, siehe Subject :-)
c) ich bin auf der Mailingliste & in Meetup

Adios

Roland

Am 21.10.2014 um 15:36 schrieb Jens Rehsack:
> Aloah,
>
> No one is or had been forced to register at Meetup.com
> It's just the huge amount of people who are neither on the mailing list nor
> on Meetup who are asked whether one or the other registration would be neat
> to give us response who's joining the next meeting or not.
>
> When we exceed the 10 people regularly, we should start caring for more
> seats for peaks ...
> When no one is coming, it's nice to know before that the meeting organizer
> (usually one from core team) knows that a travel of 1-2h per direction can
> be avoided.
>
> Replying last 12 month, we had no unvisited date - but the months before
> were not such successful. To avoid demotivation of organizers during holiday
> and travel times, it's an act of courtesy to tell organizers "you're alone
> tonight" :P
>
> Cheers
>
> Am 21.10.2014 um 15:21 schrieb Johannes Markert <johannes.markert at gmail.com>:
>
>> Hey there!
>>
>> After so many heartwarming statements during the last days,
>> I have to give you all at least a little response. ;-)
>>
>> Your maillinglist doesn't seem dead to me and I'm following -
>> ' pretty sure others do as well.
>>
>> One comment on this meetup.com thing:
>> I'm definitely not interested in registering there. Maillinglists
>> just work fine for me. It is the most convinient
>> way to stay in touch with a user group I can think of.
>>
>> What concerns me more is the shameful lack of a nice little website.
>> Nothing too fancy and complicated. Just some pictures, an overview
>> when and where there were the last meetings and what has been discussed
>> there. This should do it. As far as I see it, our target group is not a
>> big fan of social networks anyway. They (and we of course!) prefer
>> the old fashioned way. Keep it simple and stupid!
>> I'm looking forward to debate this with you tonight!
>>
>> By the way, all user groups I attended so far have the same issue
>> we are discussing here in one way or the other. ;-D
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Johannes
>>
>> PS: @Wendy: I cannot wait to listen to what you have to say about Perl 6. :-D
>>
>> PSS: Does anyone has any insights into Perl/TK? I have some questions about that.
>>
>> On 10/21/2014 02:18 PM, Wendy G.A. van Dijk wrote:
>>> At 11:26 AM 10/21/2014, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
>>>> * Peter Rabbitson <rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us> [2014-10-18 18:10]:
>>>>> In short I am not in any way married to the idea, so if most people
>>>>> really *dislike* the virtually free advertisement we get through
>>>>> meetup - maybe I should kill the account. I am open to ideas either
>>>>> way (including handing it over/adding more orgas).
>>>> FWIW since I publicly stated my lack of intention to get an account on
>>>> meetup.com, I should add it is not due to any objection to the listing
>>>> itself, nor to the site. (I simply dislike opening accounts in general.)
>>> I am with Aristotle on this.  I already have way too many accounts that I hardly use (in most cases just for one specific use with low traffic), and several accounts that I really really use a lot.  One more would not hurt, of course, but I have been cleaning house, as in closing dozens of accounts this year.
>>>
>>> I know very well that we could communicate a bit more on this mailinglist.  We could ask people to come to the meetings with a bit more pressure (as in, Perl people react to pressure in meaningful ways...  eh, I mean "please please come") and we could post summaries of what happened at the meeting.  We could urge people more to give presentations.
>>>
>>> To give the right example...   I prepared a discussion topic for tonight.  About Perl 6 and when it will be Christmas.  Let's see if people are interested.
>>>
>>> See you all tonight.  Please, please, come, give a technical presentation (or have a subject to discuss).
>>>
>>> Greetz,
>>> Wendy van Dijk
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Niederrhein-pm mailing list
>>> Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm
>> _______________________________________________
>> Niederrhein-pm mailing list
>> Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm

-- 
Mit freundlichem Gruss Yours sincerely

Roland Schmitz


From pub+perl at wt.tuxomania.net  Tue Oct 21 08:02:59 2014
From: pub+perl at wt.tuxomania.net (=?UTF-8?B?V2luZnJpZWQgVHLDvG1wZXI=?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:02:59 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?utf-8?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_2014_?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=C3=B6schen_will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>
	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>
Message-ID: <544675A3.7030803@wt.tuxomania.net>


Just a general note on the discussion about website, mailinglist and Meetup listing of Niederrhein.PM. Some private messages have been exchanged in that regard for clarification and for preparation of todays meeting. Despite clear preferences and opinions, no decisions have been taken. That will be done at todays meeting.

I hope that description reflects the situation properly and neutrally.

Regarding my motivation for making some noise: The presentation of Niederrhein.PM is relevant for local Perl-related business. If the local user group confirms prejudice about Perl (outdated, unorganized), that's as much about the future of Perl as some new magic character between parenthesis. It gives unnecessary sharp arguments to Non-Perl competitors. If Niederrhein had the public presentation of an average technical user group, I would be happy already.

See you at Railslove.


-W.


From pub+perl at wt.tuxomania.net  Tue Oct 21 08:29:22 2014
From: pub+perl at wt.tuxomania.net (=?UTF-8?B?V2luZnJpZWQgVHLDvG1wZXI=?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:29:22 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?utf-8?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_2014_?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2821=2E10=2E2014_-_wer_die_Mail_ungelesen_l=C3=B6schen_will=29?=
In-Reply-To: <544675A3.7030803@wt.tuxomania.net>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>
	<544675A3.7030803@wt.tuxomania.net>
Message-ID: <54467BD2.4050208@wt.tuxomania.net>


Am 21.10.2014 um 17:02 schrieb Winfried Trümper:
> I hope that description reflects the situation properly and neutrally.
It turned out that I overlooked some message. Which indicates that I should not have send the message. Sorry, my mistake, I should have checked all my folders first. -W.

From tbayen at bayen.de  Tue Oct 21 09:38:14 2014
From: tbayen at bayen.de (Thomas Bayen)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:38:14 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktober_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?2014_am_18=3A00_at_LoveRails_in_K=F6ln?=
In-Reply-To: <54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>	<20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>
	<380186983983141@otje> <54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54468BF6.9060100@bayen.de>

Hey there...

I can confirm that some people are following this mailing list just for 
the interest. :-)

I am a Niederrhein PerlMonger from the first generation and know the 
problems of motivating the group and the organizers. Everyone here who 
is interested in the group should think about doing his small 
contribution of information to let the organizers not have the feeling 
their work is "for nothing". The first generation group died because the 
core group became demotivated and noone took over the pumpkin.

At the end a part of the group joined forces with the Linux User Group 
Krefeld. (There are still two of the Mongers coming regularly to the LUG 
meetings - not talking much about Perl as I have to admit). On one hand 
this quickened the dying of the PerlMonger meeting because the LUG 
meeting "absorbed" it. On the other hand for me it was a good deal 
because my own personal focus went away from perl over the years.

We still have positive feelings to the idea of the Perl Monger group and 
I can offer you to renew parts of this cooperation. Please decide if 
this may help you or not.

Two things we might help you with are 1) a meeting place where you can 
be sure that there is someone else to talk about IT and 2) an easy to 
setup web presence.

1) The LUG-KR meets at every(!) monday 
(http://www.lug-kr.de/wiki/LugTreffen). We are about 3-5 members coming 
regularly. We talk the most time about this and that without a special 
frame or theme. Over the years we became more like a "Stammtisch". We 
meet in even weeks and in odd weeks in a different location so we have a 
more pub-like place and a place with a small room for us (the idea was 
to do a project or a talk there).

And... Hey! There is no discussion about Krefeld being in Niederrhein 
area. ;-)

2) The last "official" site of the first generation of the Niederrhein 
Perl Mongers is here: http://www.lug-kr.de/wiki/PerlMongers. This wiki 
is hosted by the LUG-KR and we will be pleased to share it with you. I 
like a wiki because the community can work together in a fast and open 
way. There is no single person holding the "golden key" (and loosing 
it). It is not the "nicest" possible website - but it is here and it can 
be used now.


When I understood right there is a meeting this evening. I hope that 
this mail will reach you and can be dicussed there.


Thanks for reading,

Thomas Bayen



Am 21.10.2014 15:21, schrieb Johannes Markert:
> Hey there!
>
> After so many heartwarming statements during the last days,
> I have to give you all at least a little response. ;-)
>
> Your maillinglist doesn't seem dead to me and I'm following -
> ' pretty sure others do as well.
>
> One comment on this meetup.com thing:
> I'm definitely not interested in registering there. Maillinglists
> just work fine for me. It is the most convinient
> way to stay in touch with a user group I can think of.
>
> What concerns me more is the shameful lack of a nice little website.
> Nothing too fancy and complicated. Just some pictures, an overview
> when and where there were the last meetings and what has been discussed
> there. This should do it. As far as I see it, our target group is not a
> big fan of social networks anyway. They (and we of course!) prefer
> the old fashioned way. Keep it simple and stupid!
> I'm looking forward to debate this with you tonight!
>
> By the way, all user groups I attended so far have the same issue
> we are discussing here in one way or the other. ;-D
>
> Cheers,
> Johannes
>
> PS: @Wendy: I cannot wait to listen to what you have to say about Perl
> 6. :-D
>
> PSS: Does anyone has any insights into Perl/TK? I have some questions
> about that.
>
> On 10/21/2014 02:18 PM, Wendy G.A. van Dijk wrote:
>> At 11:26 AM 10/21/2014, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
>> >* Peter Rabbitson <rabbit+nrpm at rabbit.us> [2014-10-18 18:10]:
>> >> In short I am not in any way married to the idea, so if most people
>> >> really *dislike* the virtually free advertisement we get through
>> >> meetup - maybe I should kill the account. I am open to ideas either
>> >> way (including handing it over/adding more orgas).
>> >
>> >FWIW since I publicly stated my lack of intention to get an account on
>> >meetup.com, I should add it is not due to any objection to the listing
>> >itself, nor to the site. (I simply dislike opening accounts in general.)
>>
>> I am with Aristotle on this.  I already have way too many accounts
>> that I hardly use (in most cases just for one specific use with low
>> traffic), and several accounts that I really really use a lot.  One
>> more would not hurt, of course, but I have been cleaning house, as in
>> closing dozens of accounts this year.
>>
>> I know very well that we could communicate a bit more on this
>> mailinglist.  We could ask people to come to the meetings with a bit
>> more pressure (as in, Perl people react to pressure in meaningful
>> ways...  eh, I mean "please please come") and we could post summaries
>> of what happened at the meeting.  We could urge people more to give
>> presentations.
>>
>> To give the right example...   I prepared a discussion topic for
>> tonight.  About Perl 6 and when it will be Christmas.  Let's see if
>> people are interested.
>>
>> See you all tonight.  Please, please, come, give a technical
>> presentation (or have a subject to discuss).
>>
>> Greetz,
>> Wendy van Dijk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Niederrhein-pm mailing list
>> Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Niederrhein-pm mailing list
> Niederrhein-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/niederrhein-pm

mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Thomas Bayen
-- 
Jakob Bayen KG, Bleichpfad 20-22, 47799 Krefeld
AG Krefeld HRA 416       Tel +49/2151/65 80 9-0

From johannes.markert at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 14:41:22 2014
From: johannes.markert at gmail.com (Johannes Markert)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:41:22 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm] test
Message-ID: <5446D302.9050000@gmail.com>



From sch.r at web.de  Tue Oct 21 23:35:28 2014
From: sch.r at web.de (Roland Schmitz)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:35:28 +0200
Subject: [niederrhein.pm]
 =?windows-1252?q?Niederrhein=2Epm_Treffen_Oktobe?=
 =?windows-1252?q?r_2014_am_18=3A00_at_LoveRails_in_K=F6ln?=
In-Reply-To: <54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>
References: <1F1AD9EF-3D45-49B0-99AF-6F89942D5EB4@googlemail.com>	<8367EFC3-50AC-438B-9564-70A836E44F30@googlemail.com>	<54428FAF.1040208@rabbit.us>	<20141021092642.GB76753@plasmasturm.org>	<380186983983141@otje>
	<54465DD4.2010602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54475030.2050400@web.de>

Hi *,

Am 21.10.2014 um 15:21 schrieb Johannes Markert:
> PSS: Does anyone has any insights into Perl/TK? I have some questions 
> about that.
in 2012 i heard a talk from Alexander Becker about perl/tk, at the gpw i 
guess.
He also has a website http://www.perltk.de/tk_widgets/index.html where 
he explains lots of widgets with examples.

-- 
Mit freundlichem Gruss Yours sincerely

Roland Schmitz