From autarch at urth.org Tue Feb 9 15:57:55 2010 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:57:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mpls-pm] [yapc] Call for proposals (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:53:26 -0500 From: Rob Kinyon To: yapc at pm.org Subject: [yapc] Call for proposals (cross-posted from http://robonperl.blogspot.com/2010/02/call-for-presentations-for-yapcna2010.html) YAPC::NA::2010 is just around the corner. (Well, inasumuch as something 18 weeks away is "around the corner.") Last week, I met with Heath Bairh and the other organizers and took the position of speaker liaison. So, I should probably talk some about what we're looking for. YAPC::NA::2010 is going to be about "Modern Perl 5". We believe that Perl 5 is a vibrant and living language with many uncharted places it can go. Perl 6 is going to be great, but we can't wait until Christmas for Perl 6. So, we're looking for presentations about Perl 5 in all of its modern glory. Whatcha got? You'll need to register (or login) to the YAPC::NA::2010 website (http://yapc2010.com/), then after registering for the conference, you can submit your CFP. -- Thanks, Rob Kinyon _______________________________________________ yapc mailing list yapc at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc From josjr69 at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 18:23:27 2010 From: josjr69 at gmail.com (James Smith) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:23:27 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] De-lurking... Message-ID: Hi all... Well, after 10-years of lurking on the Mpls-Perl Mongers email list, I'm finally de-lurking. For the past eight years I have been clandestinely developing a home-grown MVC Perl framework (that I affectionately refer to as the BWDT MVC framework [Bailing Wire and Duct Tape]) for the College of Biological Sciences at the University of Minnesota, much to the ire of an associate dean whose husband once worked for Microsoft (I think you can get the picture), so it was definitely an in-the-closet experience. In spite of this, there are hundreds of transactions taking place within the college and around the University within this framework. But with the economic crises and the need for the University to cut its budget by 30% I have been given permission to "come out" as a Perl programmer and check out the brave new world of "modern" Perl and I am quite frankly delighted to see that the Perl faeries have been busy. Meanwhile I will be in the process of transferring the responsibility for this two-million line behemoth to those remaining (who may be asked to take 75% appointments). I was wondering if anyone here has any experience developing web applications with the Catalyst Framework? I am impressed with what I have been reading about this technology and (like many geezer programmers) wish that it was there a few years before. Anyway, I was wondering when the next meeting was going to be and also curious if anyone wanted to talk about their experiences with Catalyst. Since my appointment at the U will end in July, I have a few months to re-tool as I plan my future and I have (at least for now) decided to focus on this framework as my "modernizing" task. Any thoughts on what would be a good personal project to become acquainted with the Perl of today in preparation for the jobs of today? Also, is it my imagination, or is there a surge in Perl energy now in the computing world at large (excluding the Twin Cities, of course since there just doesn't seem to be all that much going on here?). After twenty eight years here in the Twin Cities (twenty using Perl) it seems like relocation is a distinct possibility. Looking forward to seeing faces and linking them up with names I have been watching over the years (except for Dave Rolsky who was working at Digital River when I was there about ten years ago). Jim josjr69 at gmail.com -- James Oliver Smith, Jr josjr69 at gmail.com www.cyberpoet.com From autarch at urth.org Tue Feb 16 19:26:28 2010 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:26:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mpls-pm] De-lurking... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, James Smith wrote: > I was wondering if anyone here has any experience developing web > applications with the Catalyst Framework? I am impressed with what I > have been reading about this technology and (like many geezer > programmers) wish that it was there a few years before. Anyway, I was > wondering when the next meeting was going to be and also curious if > anyone wanted to talk about their experiences with Catalyst. Since my > appointment at the U will end in July, I have a few months to re-tool > as I plan my future and I have (at least for now) decided to focus on > this framework as my "modernizing" task. I've used Catalyst for several projects, including http://vegguide.org/ I like it a lot, and think it's the best option for any substantial web app in Perl. For trivial apps, you might be better off with something more minimal (CGI::Application, Web::Simple, etc). > Any thoughts on what would be a good personal project to become > acquainted with the Perl of today in preparation for the jobs of > today? Find an itch and scratch it? Or you could just do what everyone else does and write half of a blog application. > Also, is it my imagination, or is there a surge in Perl energy now in > the computing world at large (excluding the Twin Cities, of course > since there just doesn't seem to be all that much going on here?). > After twenty eight years here in the Twin Cities (twenty using Perl) > it seems like relocation is a distinct possibility. So Frozen Perl a week and half back was nothing? Seemed like a lot to me. Yes, I'd say Perl is seeing a resurgence. Specifically, Perl people are making an effort to talk about Perl publically and to promote Perl to the world at large. > Looking forward to seeing faces and linking them up with names I have > been watching over the years (except for Dave Rolsky who was working > at Digital River when I was there about ten years ago). I read that as you not looking forward to seeing my face, and take it _very_ personally ;) -dave /*============================================================ http://VegGuide.org http://blog.urth.org Your guide to all that's veg House Absolute(ly Pointless) ============================================================*/ From cayfo001 at umn.edu Thu Feb 18 15:54:29 2010 From: cayfo001 at umn.edu (Steve Cayford) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:54:29 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Catalyst Template wrapping Message-ID: <4B7DD335.8060802@umn.edu> On the Catalyst topic, I have an application running Catalyst with a Template Toolkit view (created with the TTSite option). It works well, but now I made a copy for development and testing (same box, same perl executable, but different apache instance on a separate port). This testing app is not wrapping the output in the html and layout templates, or running the pre-processing template. The application runs without errors, but I only get the output of the content template. I can't find a difference in the configuration, I've checked file permissions. The good site and the testing site both give the same output for things like [% Catalyst.view('TT').PRE_PROCESS %], [% Catalyst.view('TT').INCLUDE_PATH.0 %], and [% Catalyst.view('TT').INCLUDE_PATH.1 %] (other than the base of the path reflecting the change in site) Is there something in TT that would switch off the wrapping that I'm not looking at? It's probably something ridiculously obvious. Thanks. -Steve From matt at omega.org Thu Feb 18 16:03:21 2010 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:03:21 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] De-lurking... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1266537801.25111.1360740809@webmail.messagingengine.com> Dear James: Welcome. I think 10 years is a record, but that's not the kind of record where we keep track. We should start up our cafe meetings and our tech presentations again. I'd like to see both and will commit to showing up. Our next meeting is scheduled for March 10th, 2010. Our usual information is here http://minneapolis.pm.org/ -Matt Johnson On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:23 -0600, "James Smith" wrote: > Hi all... > [ more stuff] > Looking forward to seeing faces and linking them up with names I have > been watching over the years (except for Dave Rolsky who was working > at Digital River when I was there about ten years ago). > > Jim > josjr69 at gmail.com > > -- > James Oliver Smith, Jr > josjr69 at gmail.com > www.cyberpoet.com -- Matthew Johnson Sent from MessagingEngine.com Webmail. -- Matthew Johnson Sent from MessagingEngine.com Webmail. From josjr69 at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 17:51:16 2010 From: josjr69 at gmail.com (James Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:51:16 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] De-lurking... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2010/2/16 Dave Rolsky : > On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, James Smith wrote: > >> I was wondering if anyone here has any experience developing web >> applications with the Catalyst Framework? I am impressed with what I >> have been reading about this technology and (like many geezer >> programmers) wish that it was there a few years before. Anyway, I was >> wondering when the next meeting was going to be and also curious if >> anyone wanted to talk about their experiences with Catalyst. Since my >> appointment at the U will end in July, I have a few months to re-tool >> as I plan my future and I have (at least for now) decided to focus on >> this framework as my "modernizing" task. > > I've used Catalyst for several projects, including http://vegguide.org/ > > I like it a lot, and think it's the best option for any substantial web app > in Perl. For trivial apps, you might be better off with something more > minimal (CGI::Application, Web::Simple, etc). I did get a simple application gong on my home system using the CGI::Application and I will be working with that on my own. Now I am going to work on getting the same starter kit application going on Catalyst on my home system (Windows Vista, Apache, MySql, Perl). I have also arranged for my ISP to set up a real LAMP environment on my account there, so I will have an outward-facing presence as well. I have some ideas of a system I want to develop on my own while developing these skills. I will be working through some of the tutorials for Catalyst that are on the internet, so if there are suggestions on good example Catalyst tutorials, applications, or warnings of difficult areas I would like to know. At first glance, when I installed the close to a thousand modules on my Windows Active State Catalyst libraries it looked rather intimidating. I guess I will be finding out soon, starting tomorrow, as a matter of fact. >> Any thoughts on what would be a good personal project to become >> acquainted with the Perl of today in preparation for the jobs of >> today? > > Find an itch and scratch it? > > Or you could just do what everyone else does and write half of a blog > application. > >> Also, is it my imagination, or is there a surge in Perl energy now in >> the computing world at large (excluding the Twin Cities, of course >> since there just doesn't seem to be all that much going on here?). >> After twenty eight years here in the Twin Cities (twenty using Perl) >> it seems like relocation is a distinct possibility. > > So Frozen Perl a week and half back was nothing? Seemed like a lot to me. Actually, I was referring to the number of jobs being advertised as specifically being Perl-based. I, of course, would love to stick around here, but I have six months to put something in place and I don't want to leave any stones unturned. I know that there are Perl programmers here and some Perl development activity in place, but the real question is if there will be any viable options for me here before the salary and benefits stop in August. If I had planned this non-renewal notice better I would have been in a better position to take advantage of the Frozen Perl conference. While I was trying to be the "loyal" employee I was focused on keeping my own legacy systems maintained and trying to satisfy the dean's hunger for MSSQL Reporting Systems reporting, in addition to not appearing to still be interested in Perl, a strange context, to say the least. But, as they say, that is history now. I will be focusing on transitioning my systems, retooling myself and looking for work. > Yes, I'd say Perl is seeing a resurgence. Specifically, Perl people are > making an effort to talk about Perl publically and to promote Perl to the > world at large. > >> Looking forward to seeing faces and linking them up with names I have >> been watching over the years (except for Dave Rolsky who was working >> at Digital River when I was there about ten years ago). > > I read that as you not looking forward to seeing my face, and take it _very_ > personally ;) > -dave On the topic of the monthly meetings I just realized that the meetings normally occur on Wednesdays and I currently taking a class on Wednesday evenings. Would the group be open to another night, at least for March and April? The Expresso Royal in Hennepin is fine as a location. I don't drive, so wherever it is it needs to be on a public transportation route. Regarding topics for presentations, here are some topics that I think would be interesting: 1. A good skill set for Perl programmers today. One of the problems with having a job is that legacy code and current projects tend to drive technology being used with little appreciation (on the part of management, at least in my experience) for looking around and trying new libraries and tools. 2. Implementing a first, simple project that uses a good representative set of Catalyst functionality. 3.Template Toolkit. I have been using HTML::Template for years, but my initial impression is the the Template Toolkit is a bit richer in functionality. I will be checking that out over the next few days. 4. FastCGI. I have seen/heard this mentioned during interviews and checking out job listings around the country. I would like to know more about how this relates to the various Perl CGI frameworks. 5. Perl vs Ruby. I've read a number of white papers and blogs written by developers who have worked with both, discussing the pros and cons. Since it seems that some Perl shops are considering a move to Ruby because it is "hard to find Perl programmers" I have been curious about what the fascination is with Ruby, especially since it seems to scale poorly and is very difficult to optimize, even though it is easier to ramp up on in the beginning. Just some ideas. Jim josjr69 at gmail.com > > /*============================================================ > http://VegGuide.org ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://blog.urth.org > Your guide to all that's veg ? ? ?House Absolute(ly Pointless) > ============================================================*/ > _______________________________________________ > Mpls-pm mailing list > Mpls-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-pm > -- Iames Oliver Smith, Jr josjr69 at gmail.com www.cyberpoet.com From josjr69 at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 17:55:49 2010 From: josjr69 at gmail.com (James Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:55:49 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] De-lurking... In-Reply-To: <1266537801.25111.1360740809@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1266537801.25111.1360740809@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: 2010/2/18 Matthew Johnson : > Dear James: > > Welcome. ? I think 10 years is a record, but that's not the kind of record where we keep track. ?We should start up our cafe meetings and our tech presentations again. ?I'd like to see both and will commit to showing up. ?Our next meeting is scheduled for March 10th, 2010. ?Our usual information is here http://minneapolis.pm.org/ > > -Matt Johnson As I mentioned in my other email, I have a class on Wednesday nights, so I was wondering about the possibility of another night for March and April. Jim josjr at umn.edu > > On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:23 -0600, "James Smith" wrote: >> Hi all... >> > [ more stuff] >> Looking forward to seeing faces and linking them up with names I have >> been watching over the years (except for Dave Rolsky who was working >> at Digital River when I was there about ten years ago). >> >> Jim >> josjr69 at gmail.com >> >> -- >> James Oliver Smith, Jr >> josjr69 at gmail.com >> www.cyberpoet.com > > > -- > Matthew Johnson > Sent from MessagingEngine.com Webmail. > > -- > Matthew Johnson > Sent from MessagingEngine.com Webmail. > > -- Iames Oliver Smith, Jr josjr69 at gmail.com www.cyberpoet.com From peter at peknet.com Thu Feb 18 20:41:54 2010 From: peter at peknet.com (Peter Karman) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:41:54 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Catalyst Template wrapping In-Reply-To: <4B7DD335.8060802@umn.edu> References: <4B7DD335.8060802@umn.edu> Message-ID: <4B7E1692.80201@peknet.com> Steve Cayford wrote on 2/18/10 5:54 PM: > On the Catalyst topic, I have an application running Catalyst with a > Template Toolkit view (created with the TTSite option). It works well, > but now I made a copy for development and testing (same box, same perl > executable, but different apache instance on a separate port). This > testing app is not wrapping the output in the html and layout templates, > or running the pre-processing template. The application runs without > errors, but I only get the output of the content template. I can't find > a difference in the configuration, I've checked file permissions. The > good site and the testing site both give the same output for things like > [% Catalyst.view('TT').PRE_PROCESS %], [% > Catalyst.view('TT').INCLUDE_PATH.0 %], and [% > Catalyst.view('TT').INCLUDE_PATH.1 %] (other than the base of the path > reflecting the change in site) > > Is there something in TT that would switch off the wrapping that I'm not > looking at? It's probably something ridiculously obvious. You'll likely get more help on the catalyst list, but... What does your View/TT.pm file look like? esp the config where you set WRAPPER ? What does your root/lib/site/wrapper file look like? -- Peter Karman . http://peknet.com/ . peter at peknet.com From cayfo001 at umn.edu Fri Feb 19 14:41:09 2010 From: cayfo001 at umn.edu (Steve Cayford) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:41:09 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Catalyst Template wrapping In-Reply-To: <4B7E1692.80201@peknet.com> References: <4B7DD335.8060802@umn.edu> <4B7E1692.80201@peknet.com> Message-ID: <4B7F1385.1030709@umn.edu> Peter Karman wrote: > [...] > You'll likely get more help on the catalyst list, but... > > What does your View/TT.pm file look like? esp the config where you set WRAPPER ? > > What does your root/lib/site/wrapper file look like? Thanks. I finally added "default_view: TT" to my yml configuration and that fixed it. Odd since I didn't need that in my original "good" site. I must be stepping on the configuration somewhere else, but for the life of me I can't see where. Anyway, this works. -Steve