From tony.edwardson at usa.net Mon Jul 12 23:45:45 2010 From: tony.edwardson at usa.net (Tony Edwardson) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:45:45 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Conex Europe - Perl Update Message-ID: <4C3C0B99.7090701@usa.net> Interested anyone ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Conex Europe - Perl Update Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:14:38 +0100 From: Matthew Geppert To: Tony.Edwardson at usa.net Dear Tony Senior OO Perl Developer - ** Gain Finance experience ** - London Good Afternoon, I hope all is well. You have previously registered with Conex Europe in relation to Perl Development vacancies. I'm currently working with a market leading application service provider providing niche web based services to the top-tier financial institutions. They urgently need 2 senior perl developers working to develop, enhance, maintain and support the companys hosted services. The applications delivering the services generally have an interactive user interface component delivered as dynamic web pages over the Internet as well as a series of significant server based data processing components. The role offers the opportunity to work in a small company setting with other skilled developers to produce high quality software where good work is both recognised and rewarded. * Self-motivated, pro-active and autonomous, with good team-working skills * Ability to absorb and retain complex business and technical information rapidly * Excellent design and software development skills * Experience in software development for *nix / web deployment * SQL and relational data modelling skills * Experience developing in the LAMP stack * OO design skills, including the ability to apply appropriate OO patterns * Linux / Apache / MySQL / Perl * GnuPG, CVS, IPTABLES * Good communication skills and the ability to liaise with technical contacts at clients, and to provide telephone support to end users Please let me know if you are interested or alternatively if not, I apologise for the inconvenience and if you could recommend someone, that would be great? I look forward to hearing from you, Best regards, Matthew Geppert 01708 716 880 matt at conexeurope.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andyfrommk at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 09:39:06 2010 From: andyfrommk at gmail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:39:06 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script Message-ID: 'evening all, I seem have to have a permission problem creating a 'data.txt' file to store comments. I think it is an Apache/perl interpreter mis-config but here is the script anyway #!/usr/bin/perl -wT use strict; use CGI qw/:standard/; print header,start_html('Comments Form'); print h1('Comments Form'); my $time = localtime(); print $time,p; print start_form, textarea({ -name => "text", -rows => "10", -columns => "50", }),p, submit,end_form,p; if (param) { #print "you said ",(param('text')),p, #This line works, the others below don't open (MYFILE, '>>data.txt') or die "couldn't open file $!"; print MYFILE (param('text')),$time,; close (MYFILE); print $!; }; print end_html; Looking in /var/log/httpd/error.log I see... 'couldn't open file Permission denied at' I am the owner of cgi-bin/ and html/ though even if I create the data.txt file and make it world-writeable I still get the 'couldn't open file' line in the log This is on a Fedora 12 install Thanks in advance Andy P.S That isn't all of the script, its just that I stopped adding new functionality when I ran into this problem. From webmaster at cosmicperl.com Wed Jul 14 10:10:04 2010 From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:10:04 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> On 14/07/2010 17:39, Andy Selby wrote: > 'evening all, > I seem have to have a permission problem creating a 'data.txt' file to > store comments. > I think it is an Apache/perl interpreter mis-config but here is the > script anyway > > #!/usr/bin/perl -wT Have you tried it without Taint mode? I don't see you untainting your input anywhere.. > use strict; > use CGI qw/:standard/; > > print header,start_html('Comments Form'); > print h1('Comments Form'); > > my $time = localtime(); > print $time,p; > print start_form, textarea({ > -name => "text", > -rows => "10", > -columns => "50", > }),p, > submit,end_form,p; > > if (param) { > #print "you said ",(param('text')),p, #This line works, the > others below don't > open (MYFILE, '>>data.txt') or die "couldn't open file $!"; > print MYFILE (param('text')),$time,; > close (MYFILE); > print $!; > }; > print end_html; > > Looking in /var/log/httpd/error.log I see... > > 'couldn't open file Permission denied at' > > I am the owner of cgi-bin/ and html/ though even if I create the > data.txt file and make it world-writeable I still get the 'couldn't > open file' line in the log > This is on a Fedora 12 install 777 permissions? What user is the script executed as? Are you using SuEXEC (you should)? What's the PWD when you try to open the file? You may want to chdir to the right folder... Hope some of that helps Lyle From andyfrommk at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:11:30 2010 From: andyfrommk at gmail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:11:30 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: <4C3DEB21.5070509@usa.net> References: <4C3DEB21.5070509@usa.net> Message-ID: On 14 July 2010 17:51, Tony Edwardson wrote: > Try specifying the full path of data.txt Thanks, That didn't work but creating the file and making it world-writeable did although it printed this to the webpage Inappropriate ioctl for device even creating a directory owned by apache to create the data.txt file and specifying the full path to that did not work, [Wed Jul 14 18:07:56 2010] [error] [client 192.168.0.4] couldn't open file Permission denied at /var/www/cgi-bin/MoSoSo.cgi line 20., referer: http://192.168.0.10/cgi-bin/MoSoSo.cgi From andyfrommk at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:26:12 2010 From: andyfrommk at gmail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:26:12 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: On 14 July 2010 18:10, Lyle wrote: > Have you tried it without Taint mode? I don't see you untainting your input > anywhere.. yes, but it didn't create the file still > > 777 permissions? What user is the script executed as? Are you using SuEXEC > (you should)? The 777 setting was just a test to see if it would write to it, I think it is as apache (no user called httpd on a Fedora system), I'll have to google suEXEC > What's the PWD when you try to open the file? You may want to chdir to the > right folder... I assume it creates the file in the directory the CGI script was run from, again, not how it will be when its ready to hit the internet but for now the script is still in production > Hope some of that helps Thanks, I appreciate it From webmaster at cosmicperl.com Wed Jul 14 11:05:35 2010 From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:05:35 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> On 14/07/2010 18:26, Andy Selby wrote: > I think it is as apache (no user called httpd on a Fedora system), > I'll have to google suEXEC > Yeah, I think it's user apache. suEXEC will probably sort your problems, it executes the script as the proper owner instead of apache. Is your site in /var/www or /home? You might find you need to rebuild suexec if you're in /home, I did an old guide:- http://www.cosmicscripts.com/servers/suexec.html Or the apache RPM you get from the webmin repo already has a suexec built for /home You can use Perls special variables:- $< (user id) $> (effective user id) $( (group id) $) (effective group id) To figure out exactly what user and group the script is being executed as, then you'll be able to check what they user can do from your scripts folder in the shell. Lyle From andyfrommk at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:34:22 2010 From: andyfrommk at gmail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:34:22 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: On 14 July 2010 19:05, Lyle wrote: > Yeah, I think it's user apache. suEXEC will probably sort your problems, it > executes the script as the proper owner instead of apache. Is your site in > /var/www or /home? You might find you need to rebuild suexec if you're in > /home, I did an old guide:- > http://www.cosmicscripts.com/servers/suexec.html The site is in /var/www/ I read that page ( and wondered if you had a hand in it, it being cosmic* and all,) when I check to see if suEXEC is compiled in I get.. [root at xyphen ~]# suexec -v suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details I thought an easier way would be to change the user apache runs as to my username, but I got his error message.. [Wed Jul 14 19:53:39 2010] [notice] SELinux policy enabled; httpd running as context unconfined_u:system_r:httpd_t:s0 [Wed Jul 14 19:53:39 2010] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/sbin/suexec) Partial success I made the full path into a variable... #print "you said ",(param('text')),p, #This line works, the others below don't my $datafile = '/var/www/cgi-bin/data/data.txt'; open (MYFILE, "$datafile") or die "couldn't open $datafile $!"; ... and it could open it although didn't write anything to it, also I had to create it first [Wed Jul 14 19:19:47 2010] [error] [client 192.168.0.4] Filehandle MYFILE opened only for input at /var/www/cgi-bin/MoSoSo.cgi line 22., referer: http://192.168.0.10/cgi-bin/MoSoSo.cgi Full success (but cheating), I transferred the file to a debian system, chown'd a directory for apache to put data.txt in and it worked. Sorry, I should have mentioned I had a debian system lying around ('lying around' being the keyword here, its on its side, no panels on it and the hdd caddy is sitting on top of the frame but still connected). Oh, well, that's taught me never to use Fedora for a server. Thanks for your help Tony And Lyle Andy From webmaster at cosmicperl.com Wed Jul 14 13:59:27 2010 From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:59:27 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> On 14/07/2010 20:34, Andy Selby wrote: > [root at xyphen ~]# suexec -v > suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details > That's a new one to me :/ > I thought an easier way would be to change the user apache runs as to > my username, but I got his error message.. > I think this would effect quite a few things. > [Wed Jul 14 19:53:39 2010] [notice] SELinux policy enabled; httpd > running as context unconfined_u:system_r:httpd_t:s0 > [Wed Jul 14 19:53:39 2010] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: > /usr/sbin/suexec) > > Partial success I made the full path into a variable... > > #print "you said ",(param('text')),p, #This line works, the > others below don't > my $datafile = '/var/www/cgi-bin/data/data.txt'; > open (MYFILE, "$datafile") or die "couldn't open $datafile $!"; > That should be open (MYFILE, ">>$datafile") or die "couldn't open $datafile $!"; to write to it, hence the error. > ... and it could open it although didn't write anything to it, also I > had to create it first > > [Wed Jul 14 19:19:47 2010] [error] [client 192.168.0.4] Filehandle > MYFILE opened only for input at /var/www/cgi-bin/MoSoSo.cgi line 22., > referer: http://192.168.0.10/cgi-bin/MoSoSo.cgi > > Full success (but cheating), I transferred the file to a debian > system, chown'd a directory for apache to put data.txt in and it > worked. > Sorry, I should have mentioned I had a debian system lying around > ('lying around' being the keyword here, its on its side, no panels on > it and the hdd caddy is sitting on top of the frame but still > connected). > > Oh, well, that's taught me never to use Fedora for a server. > This might suggest that by default fedora apache is more secure? (not that I use fedora any more). Anyway, for something redhat derived for a server you should use CentOS. > Thanks for your help Tony And Lyle > Glad you got it working. Lyle From bob at randomness.org.uk Wed Jul 14 15:50:05 2010 From: bob at randomness.org.uk (Bob Walker) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:50:05 +0100 (BST) Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Lyle wrote: > On 14/07/2010 20:34, Andy Selby wrote: > >> [Wed Jul 14 19:53:39 2010] [notice] SELinux policy enabled; httpd >> running as context unconfined_u:system_r:httpd_t:s0 >> [Wed Jul 14 19:53:39 2010] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: >> /usr/sbin/suexec) > > This might suggest that by default fedora apache is more secure? (not that I > use fedora any more). Anyway, for something redhat derived for a server you > should use CentOS. it probably is since selinux is enabled. which in my experinence just casues more problems than it solves or at least just gets in the way a lot. -- bob walker buses should be purple and bendy From webmaster at cosmicperl.com Wed Jul 14 17:02:55 2010 From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:02:55 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: <4C3E502F.8050205@cosmicperl.com> On 14/07/2010 21:59, Lyle wrote: > On 14/07/2010 20:34, Andy Selby wrote: >> [root at xyphen ~]# suexec -v >> suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details > > That's a new one to me :/ Ahh, you need a capital V "suexec -V" Lyle From jhthorsen at cpan.org Thu Jul 15 01:45:46 2010 From: jhthorsen at cpan.org (Jan Henning Thorsen) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:45:46 +0200 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: <4C3E502F.8050205@cosmicperl.com> References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E502F.8050205@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: Just as a side note: I would suggest using three-way open, especially when working with web-apps: open my $FH, $mode, $file or die "Could not $mode $file: $!"; ^ the main point is that $mode is the second argument and not part of the $file. It's simply more secure, since you cannot pass inn special characters to do funky stuff... also, using a -X test on the file before appending to it can be smart to avoid users from passing in \0 characters, which open() will...uhm...I cannot remember, but there (at least used to be) some weird security flaw by passing \0 to open in the $file parameter. Second: Suexec? I mostly like to think that all my web-users are virtual and all the backend data is owned by www-user (or whatever). I don't like changing user inside my apache process, since it includes another potential security hole... But that's just my oppinion. Regards, Jan Henning On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 2:02 AM, Lyle wrote: > On 14/07/2010 21:59, Lyle wrote: >> >> On 14/07/2010 20:34, Andy Selby wrote: >>> >>> [root at xyphen ~]# suexec -v >>> suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details >> >> That's a new one to me :/ > > Ahh, you need a capital V "suexec -V" > > > Lyle > > _______________________________________________ > MiltonKeynes-pm mailing list > MiltonKeynes-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/miltonkeynes-pm > From tom at eborcom.com Thu Jul 15 02:20:14 2010 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:20:14 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E502F.8050205@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: <20100715092013.GB13843@eborcom.com> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:45:46AM +0200, Jan Henning Thorsen wrote: > Just as a side note: I would suggest using three-way open, especially > when working with web-apps: > > open my $FH, $mode, $file or die "Could not $mode $file: $!"; I also suggest using three argument open, as it separates the different things you care about, rather than joining together the mode and file as one argument. It's been around since Perl 5.6: http://search.cpan.org/~jesse/perl-5.12.1/pod/perl56delta.pod#open%28%29_with_more_than_two_arguments I'd make the code even more readable by removing the "or die.." clause so you can see the program's intent clearly without having to read about what it might do if it doesn't work. Of course, that means you ignore any failure to open the file. If you're using a recent version of Perl, use autodie (it's in core since 5.10); if you're using an older version use Fatal (it's in core since 5.003). Both of them automatically throw errors for you, making your code cleaner. > also, using a -X test on the file before appending to it can be > smart to avoid users from passing in \0 characters, which open() > will...uhm...I cannot remember, but there (at least used to be) some > weird security flaw by passing \0 to open in the $file parameter. I like writing as little code as possible to do the job, and I don't see what this achieves. I can't find a CVE that mentions the \0 vulnerability: http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=perl So I'd treat this as "not a problem" until someone points me towards evidence. Tom From andyfrommk at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 09:02:35 2010 From: andyfrommk at gmail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:02:35 +0100 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: >> This might suggest that by default fedora apache is more secure? (not that >> I use fedora any more). Anyway, for something redhat derived for a server >> you should use CentOS. > > it probably is since selinux is enabled. which in my experinence just casues > more problems than it solves or at least just gets in the way a lot. SELINUX! Damn, as soon as I read that I knew it was the culprit, same story with my graphics card driver, locate could locate the module but insmod said file not found just as it would stop apache writing to a directory apache has write access to. That got it working on the Fedora system and I solved that 'Inappropriate ioctl for device' message, it was line 23, 'print $!;' which for the life of me I can't think why it was there. >>[root at xyphen ~]# suexec -v >>suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details >Ahh, you need a capital V "suexec -V" D'OH Jan,Tom I will certainly investigate three way open, although I thought taint mode was the preferred choice of stopping special characters being passed to the interpretor (and, thus, thwarting a robert'); DROP TABLES students;-- and `cat ../../../etc/passwd`) I removed the 'or die' part since I realised the lines in apache's error log was whatever you write between 'or die' and '$!', and I wondered why the error message was useless, I wrote it! Thanks for all your help guys, Andy From jhthorsen at cpan.org Thu Jul 15 10:34:14 2010 From: jhthorsen at cpan.org (Jan Henning Thorsen) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:34:14 +0200 Subject: Permission problem with CGI script In-Reply-To: References: <4C3DEF6C.6050400@cosmicperl.com> <4C3DFC6F.7060500@cosmicperl.com> <4C3E252F.7010707@cosmicperl.com> Message-ID: I think autodie is nice, but not always what I want - especially since I'm not a big fan of exceptions (another discussion though...) But I most certainly do NOT like tait mode, since it might break some perl modules, which require C/XS code. And I also don't want to rely on perl fixing things for me - I would rather be causious of my own choices. On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Andy Selby wrote: >>> This might suggest that by default fedora apache is more secure? (not that >>> I use fedora any more). Anyway, for something redhat derived for a server >>> you should use CentOS. >> >> it probably is since selinux is enabled. which in my experinence just casues >> more problems than it solves or at least just gets in the way a lot. > > SELINUX! Damn, as soon as I read that I knew it was the culprit, same > story with my graphics card driver, > locate could locate the module but insmod said file not found just as > it would stop apache writing to a directory apache has write access > to. > > That got it working on the Fedora system and I solved that > 'Inappropriate ioctl for device' message, it was line 23, > 'print $!;' > which for the life of me I can't think why it was there. > >>>[root at xyphen ~]# suexec -v >>>suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details > >>Ahh, you need a capital V "suexec -V" > > D'OH > > Jan,Tom I will certainly investigate three way open, although I > thought taint mode was the preferred choice of stopping special > characters being passed to the interpretor (and, thus, thwarting a > robert'); DROP TABLES students;-- and `cat ../../../etc/passwd`) > > I removed the 'or die' part since I realised the lines in apache's > error log was whatever you write between 'or die' and '$!', and I > wondered why the error message was useless, I wrote it! > > Thanks for all your help guys, > > Andy > _______________________________________________ > MiltonKeynes-pm mailing list > MiltonKeynes-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/miltonkeynes-pm > From andyfrommk at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:23:04 2010 From: andyfrommk at gmail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:23:04 +0100 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 27th July Message-ID: The monthly MKLUG/MiltonKeynes.pm meet-up is nearly upon us! As ever, it will be held at the Wetherspoons pub, near the railway station (not the one in the snow dome), next door to Chiquitos: http://osm.org/go/eu4qJDHoE-- Starting from 7pm, and going on till the last people stumble off home. We usually inhabit one of the two large curved tables in front of the bar. Feel free to bring your laptop/Linux device along if you want a hand/to show off. From andyfrommk at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 09:22:18 2010 From: andyfrommk at gmail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:22:18 +0100 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 27th July In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to remind everyone, this is tonight On 21 July 2010 22:23, Andy Selby wrote: > The monthly MKLUG/MiltonKeynes.pm meet-up is nearly upon us! > > As ever, it will be held at the Wetherspoons pub, near the railway > station (not the one in the snow dome), next door to Chiquitos: > > http://osm.org/go/eu4qJDHoE-- > > Starting from 7pm, and going on till the last people stumble off home. > We usually inhabit one of the two large curved tables in front of the bar. > Feel free to bring your laptop/Linux device along if you want a hand/to > show off. > From tom at eborcom.com Wed Jul 28 00:38:26 2010 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:38:26 +0100 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 27th July In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100728073826.GI34687@eborcom.com> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:23:04PM +0100, Andy Selby wrote: > The monthly MKLUG/MiltonKeynes.pm meet-up is nearly upon us! I enjoyed last night's conversation and I thought I would summarise a couple of conversations that stick in my mind: Rod and I discussed the various version control systems that our workplaces use and want to migrate to. We're both looking forward to moving to distributed version control systems from Subversion, which we both considered "CVS done better" as opposed to "version control done properly" as many others have observed before. We both felt the name "distributed version control" misses the best feature that such products have: they serve as "self contained version control systems" so everything from the repository lives in your working copy. Consequently, they let you play around more with your code before pushing it to a server. JJ told me about cpanminus, which I'd heard a bit about before as a replacement for Perl's venerable CPAN client. I'm going to try it out today as JJ tells me it runs faster: instead of parsing CPAN's list of distributions it contacts a server over the network to figure out what to install. It's just occurred to me that I've described one tool that uses the network to offload local processing and one that uses local resources to provide more flexibility. I guess there's still more than one way to do it. Tom From peter at dragonstaff.co.uk Wed Jul 28 02:25:47 2010 From: peter at dragonstaff.co.uk (Peter Edwards) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:25:47 +0100 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 27th July In-Reply-To: <20100728073826.GI34687@eborcom.com> References: <20100728073826.GI34687@eborcom.com> Message-ID: Hi, interesting post. I think Subversion works better for a small team in one place than git. As soon as you have remote workers, though, or more branching then I think git makes more sense. I helped the team here moved from CVS to Subversion over the last year. Sometimes it's easy to forget how much better than CVS svn is! The Beeb has relented a bit on Perl and is setting up a CI server for Perl apps as part of its new "Platform" (was called Forge) and that includes using cpanminus and local::lib to handle multiple versioned libraries. It seems like a sensible and efficient way of managing things. In our bit we use local::lib to bundle app-specific library distributions and then with the same O/S versions we can rsync them around. It's also handy for adding a particular version of an XML parser, say, for a specific use case for a feed. Cheers, Peter On 28 July 2010 08:38, Tom Hukins wrote: > Rod and I discussed the various version control systems that our > workplaces use and want to migrate to. We're both looking forward to > moving to distributed version control systems from Subversion, which > we both considered "CVS done better" as opposed to "version control > done properly" as many others have observed before. > > We both felt the name "distributed version control" misses the best > feature that such products have: they serve as "self contained > version control systems" so everything from the repository lives in > your working copy. Consequently, they let you play around more with > your code before pushing it to a server. > > JJ told me about cpanminus, which I'd heard a bit about before as a > replacement for Perl's venerable CPAN client. I'm going to try it out > today as JJ tells me it runs faster: instead of parsing CPAN's list > of distributions it contacts a server over the network to figure out > what to install. > > It's just occurred to me that I've described one tool that uses the > network to offload local processing and one that uses local resources > to provide more flexibility. I guess there's still more than one way > to do it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom at eborcom.com Wed Jul 28 02:38:31 2010 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:38:31 +0100 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 27th July In-Reply-To: References: <20100728073826.GI34687@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <20100728093831.GJ34687@eborcom.com> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:25:47AM +0100, Peter Edwards wrote: > I think Subversion works better for a small team in one place than > git. As soon as you have remote workers, though, or more branching > then I think git makes more sense. As one of my colleagues puts it, "Subversion has excellent branching support, but it sucks at merging". Of course, you usually want to merge a branch back in at some point. We've encountered various problems such as changing a file to a symlink that have made us generally wary of Subversion. Admittedly, I've happily used it in other environments and encountered fewer problems due to simpler working practices. I deliberately mentioned distributed version controls generally rather than git specifically, as we like monotonic revision numbers, which git does not support. Tom From jhthorsen at cpan.org Fri Jul 30 06:50:16 2010 From: jhthorsen at cpan.org (Jan Henning Thorsen) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:50:16 +0200 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 27th July In-Reply-To: <20100728093831.GJ34687@eborcom.com> References: <20100728073826.GI34687@eborcom.com> <20100728093831.GJ34687@eborcom.com> Message-ID: I personally and @work only use git (don't care if it's a one man show, the whole world or a team at work). It simply is a lot better: branching, merging, rebasing... From what I know, svn doesn't have any concept of rebasing, which imo kick ass :-) On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Tom Hukins wrote: > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:25:47AM +0100, Peter Edwards wrote: >> I think Subversion works better for a small team in one place than >> git. As soon as you have remote workers, though, or more branching >> then I think git makes more sense. > > As one of my colleagues puts it, "Subversion has excellent branching > support, but it sucks at merging". ?Of course, you usually want to > merge a branch back in at some point. > > We've encountered various problems such as changing a file to a > symlink that have made us generally wary of Subversion. ?Admittedly, > I've happily used it in other environments and encountered fewer > problems due to simpler working practices. > > I deliberately mentioned distributed version controls generally rather > than git specifically, as we like monotonic revision numbers, which > git does not support. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > MiltonKeynes-pm mailing list > MiltonKeynes-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/miltonkeynes-pm >