From I.A.Cameron at open.ac.uk Thu Nov 5 14:09:00 2009 From: I.A.Cameron at open.ac.uk (Ian Cameron) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:09:00 +0000 Subject: Spoons Beer Festival Message-ID: A few of us have decided to meet up tomorrow night in Spoons to sample the beers from their autumn beer festival. We'll be there from around 19:30 - 20:00 till late. If anyone fancies joining us, you're most welcome. -- Cheers, Ian. The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302). From tom at eborcom.com Fri Nov 6 07:04:27 2009 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 15:04:27 +0000 Subject: Spoons Beer Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091106150427.GB54033@eborcom.com> On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 10:09:00PM +0000, Ian Cameron wrote: > A few of us have decided to meet up tomorrow night in Spoons to sample the > beers from their autumn beer festival. I've just noticed this showed up in the archive here: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/miltonkeynes-pm/2009-November/000666.html Note the three digits before the '.html'. Ian, what haven't you told us? Unfortunately I can't make it this evening, but I hope those of you who do have fun. perl -E '$drink = "BEER"; $drink++ for 1..198947; say lc $drink' Tom From I.A.Cameron at open.ac.uk Fri Nov 6 07:30:10 2009 From: I.A.Cameron at open.ac.uk (Ian Cameron) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:30:10 +0000 Subject: Spoons Beer Festival In-Reply-To: <20091106150427.GB54033@eborcom.com> References: <20091106150427.GB54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: Tom Hukins said: > On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 10:09:00PM +0000, Ian Cameron wrote: > > A few of us have decided to meet up tomorrow night in Spoons to sample the > > beers from their autumn beer festival. > > I've just noticed this showed up in the archive here: > http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/miltonkeynes-pm/2009-November/000666.html > > Note the three digits before the '.html'. Ian, what haven't you told > us? Good spot :) I'll be looking for a dark Satanic pint tonight then... -- Cheers, Ian. The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302). From pm at gavinwestwood.co.uk Fri Nov 6 07:47:16 2009 From: pm at gavinwestwood.co.uk (Gavin Westwood) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:47:16 +0000 Subject: Spoons Beer Festival In-Reply-To: References: <20091106150427.GB54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <4AF44504.3010706@gavinwestwood.co.uk> On 06/11/09 15:30, Ian Cameron wrote: > Tom Hukins said: > >> On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 10:09:00PM +0000, Ian Cameron wrote: >> >>> A few of us have decided to meet up tomorrow night in Spoons to sample the >>> beers from their autumn beer festival. >>> >> I've just noticed this showed up in the archive here: >> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/miltonkeynes-pm/2009-November/000666.html >> >> Note the three digits before the '.html'. Ian, what haven't you told >> us? >> > > Good spot :) I'll be looking for a dark Satanic pint tonight then... You'll be wanting one of these or these then.. ;-p Gavin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom at eborcom.com Thu Nov 12 13:14:54 2009 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:14:54 +0000 Subject: Secure File Upload Message-ID: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> Given that several people here run various Web sites, I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I host a few Web sites on a Unix box and so far I have copied files there using scp, or edited them directly on the box. That works well for me. I now want to let a semi-technical person upload a site from a Windows XP box. Fine, I thought, I'll create a new account and provide SFTP access, pointing this person (who has used FTP before) to WinSCP. Unfortunately, with this approach I can't prevent SSH logins easily, and I can't restrict access to a subset of the machine's file system. Ideally, I'd like to do both for security reasons. I could faff around with chroot and run separate services, but as I only play at sysadmin in my spare time, I like to keep things simple. Running WebDAV over https within Apache might do the job, but WebDAV feels like a heavy protocol and I've seen XP play with it badly in the past, admittedly around 5 years ago. Also, to keep everything encrypted, I need to give the server a certificate. Thinking backwards, I guess I want to: 1) Make the process as easy as possible for the uploader 2) Reduce the risk to my system, should the account become compromised 3) Reduce the chance of making the account compromised (encryption) I suspect some sort of ideal solution may not exist, but I would welcome any thoughts, insight or creative workarounds you lot might come up with. Tom From jhthorsen at cpan.org Fri Nov 13 01:02:22 2009 From: jhthorsen at cpan.org (Jan Henning Thorsen) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:02:22 +0100 Subject: Secure File Upload In-Reply-To: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> References: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <1afcfe7a0911130102g7be84acdsba254cd2989fdf0a@mail.gmail.com> I agree that webdav is not the solution :/ What about writing a catalyst app, which has an flash uploader / file manager as frontend toward the user? MojoMojo use swfupload. It provides the possibility to upload multiple files, but download would be done by one-and-one click on standard links on the webpage. There are other "filemanagers" written in flash which might also do the job. The reason why I'm "cheering" for flash, is that: 1) I don't fancy Java 2) Most people got flash installed 3) Almost no-one has that fancy chrome thingy (cannot remember what it's called), which enables you to drag/drop files between your local system and the browser Is this required to be a closed system? If not, maybe you use ubuntu one or dropbox to sync the files between the different computers... ___ batman On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Tom Hukins wrote: > Given that several people here run various Web sites, I'm hoping > someone can point me in the right direction. > > I host a few Web sites on a Unix box and so far I have copied files > there using scp, or edited them directly on the box. ?That works well > for me. > > I now want to let a semi-technical person upload a site from a Windows > XP box. ?Fine, I thought, I'll create a new account and provide SFTP > access, pointing this person (who has used FTP before) to WinSCP. > > Unfortunately, with this approach I can't prevent SSH logins easily, > and I can't restrict access to a subset of the machine's file system. > Ideally, I'd like to do both for security reasons. > > I could faff around with chroot and run separate services, but as I > only play at sysadmin in my spare time, I like to keep things simple. > > Running WebDAV over https within Apache might do the job, but WebDAV > feels like a heavy protocol and I've seen XP play with it badly in the > past, admittedly around 5 years ago. ?Also, to keep everything > encrypted, I need to give the server a certificate. > > Thinking backwards, I guess I want to: > 1) Make the process as easy as possible for the uploader > 2) Reduce the risk to my system, should the account become compromised > 3) Reduce the chance of making the account compromised (encryption) > > I suspect some sort of ideal solution may not exist, but I would > welcome any thoughts, insight or creative workarounds you lot might > come up with. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > MiltonKeynes-pm mailing list > MiltonKeynes-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/miltonkeynes-pm > From robbiebow at gmail.com Fri Nov 13 01:44:29 2009 From: robbiebow at gmail.com (Robbie Bow) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:44:29 +0000 Subject: Secure File Upload In-Reply-To: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> References: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <973296c20911130144j2ef216b3k44e16b27cb94b9cc@mail.gmail.com> Create a VM on your server, put their stuff in that, and give them full root access :) From robbiebow at gmail.com Fri Nov 13 03:35:50 2009 From: robbiebow at gmail.com (Robbie Bow) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:35:50 +0000 Subject: Secure File Upload In-Reply-To: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> References: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <973296c20911130335u54cb99ccg862fd10a8d065a85@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/12 Tom Hukins : > 1) Make the process as easy as possible for the uploader > 2) Reduce the risk to my system, should the account become compromised > 3) Reduce the chance of making the account compromised (encryption) > The lazy web suggests adding /path/to/openssh/sftp-server to /etc/shells, making that the shell for the user, and then they can only run SFTP commands, so any attempt at shell access will be useless. From bob at randomness.org.uk Fri Nov 13 03:44:25 2009 From: bob at randomness.org.uk (Bob Walker) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:44:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Secure File Upload In-Reply-To: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> References: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, Tom Hukins wrote: > I suspect some sort of ideal solution may not exist, but I would > welcome any thoughts, insight or creative workarounds you lot might > come up with. It didnt for along time. then openssh added native sftp chrooting. http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/590 -- bob walker buses should be purple and bendy From tom at eborcom.com Fri Nov 13 03:48:11 2009 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:48:11 +0000 Subject: Secure File Upload In-Reply-To: <973296c20911130335u54cb99ccg862fd10a8d065a85@mail.gmail.com> <1afcfe7a0911130102g7be84acdsba254cd2989fdf0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> <973296c20911130335u54cb99ccg862fd10a8d065a85@mail.gmail.com> <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> <1afcfe7a0911130102g7be84acdsba254cd2989fdf0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091113114811.GY54033@eborcom.com> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:02:22AM +0100, Jan Henning Thorsen wrote: > What about writing a catalyst app, which has an flash uploader / > file manager as frontend toward the user? That requires development and maintenance effort that I'd rather avoid. Currently, the httpd only serves static content. > Is this required to be a closed system? If not, maybe you use ubuntu > one or dropbox to sync the files between the different computers... That's the kind of creative thinking I had hoped for when I asked the question. If I find something like Dropbox with an open API, the uploader can use a friendly Windows tool and I can write a little Perl script or use a CPAN module. I doubt Dropbox itself will work for me as they don't provide binaries that will run on my system, but they seem to have several competitors. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:35:50AM +0000, Robbie Bow wrote: > 2009/11/12 Tom Hukins : > > 1) Make the process as easy as possible for the uploader > > 2) Reduce the risk to my system, should the account become compromised > > 3) Reduce the chance of making the account compromised (encryption) > > > > The lazy web suggests adding /path/to/openssh/sftp-server to > /etc/shells, making that the shell for the user, and then they can > only run SFTP commands, so any attempt at shell access will be > useless. Thanks, this almost does the job perfectly. But the user, or someone who compromises the account, has read access to the entire file system so it doesn't completely solve issue 2. Bob has just pointed out on IRC that recent OpenSSH releases support native chrooting with a little configuration: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/590 Happy Tom From peter at dragonstaff.co.uk Fri Nov 13 03:54:11 2009 From: peter at dragonstaff.co.uk (Peter Edwards) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:54:11 +0000 Subject: Secure File Upload In-Reply-To: <20091113114811.GY54033@eborcom.com> References: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> <973296c20911130335u54cb99ccg862fd10a8d065a85@mail.gmail.com> <1afcfe7a0911130102g7be84acdsba254cd2989fdf0a@mail.gmail.com> <20091113114811.GY54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Scripting/Perl/Q_21691551.html check out file-catcher.pl and file-pitcher.pl it may be idiot-simple enough to do the job without ssh :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robbiebow at gmail.com Fri Nov 13 05:04:35 2009 From: robbiebow at gmail.com (Robbie Bow) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:04:35 +0000 Subject: Secure File Upload In-Reply-To: References: <20091112211454.GW54033@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <973296c20911130504y39196795n5ecd3f24d030861c@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/13 Bob Walker : > It didnt for along time. then openssh added native sftp chrooting. > http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/590 > Win! From tom at eborcom.com Wed Nov 18 00:36:01 2009 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:36:01 +0000 Subject: London Perl Workshop, 5th December 2009 Message-ID: <20091118083601.GI54033@eborcom.com> It's almost time for the UK's best annual Perl event, the London Perl Workshop: http://conferences.yapceurope.org/lpw2009/ As always, it's free to attend. It's at Westminster University again, a short walk from London Euston. The schedule has just been published and it looks good: http://conferences.yapceurope.org/lpw2009/schedule Be sure to sign up soon (even though it's free, you need to sign up) to make sure you join in the fun. If you can think of anyone else who would like to attend, pass the news on. I hope to see several of you there, Tom From andyfrommk at googlemail.com Wed Nov 18 09:59:58 2009 From: andyfrommk at googlemail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:59:58 +0000 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 24th November Message-ID: <27183a390911180959x2df88dc6k49db1d64d9f84170@mail.gmail.com> The monthly MKLUG/MiltonKeynes.pm meet-up is nearly upon us! As ever, it will be held at the Wetherspoons pub, near the railway station (not the one in the snow dome), next door to Chiquitos: http://miltonkeynes.openguides.org/?J.D_Wetherspoon%2C_Central_Milton_Keynes Starting from 8pm, and going on till the last people stumble off home. Feel free to bring your laptop/Linux device along if you want a hand/to show off. From oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Nov 22 13:27:33 2009 From: oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Oliver Gorwits) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:27:33 +0000 Subject: [jobs] A bit of web/DBI/TT work available Message-ID: <4B09ACC5.6020709@oucs.ox.ac.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, A friend of mine has been working on a small e-commerce site for a property developer he knows. It's fairly straightforward stuff - a little Google Maps and PayPal integration, driven by TT and DBI. Anyway my friend has run out of time to look after things, and the property developer chap says he's happy to pay someone else to add features now and again as required (the site is already live). If you are into this kind of thing, please drop me a line off-list and I'll put you in touch. If you have previous examples of work you can point me to, all the better, but that is not essential. regards, oliver. - -- Oliver Gorwits, Network and Telecommunications Group, Oxford University Computing Services -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksJrMUACgkQ2NPq7pwWBt7zfQCdHKOpMxz+C4YYe2BJisETmpja guUAoKFUGeNVVYNsBh3/oTrqYAmwsnq0 =VuXi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From andyfrommk at googlemail.com Tue Nov 24 10:30:08 2009 From: andyfrommk at googlemail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:30:08 +0000 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 24th November In-Reply-To: <27183a390911180959x2df88dc6k49db1d64d9f84170@mail.gmail.com> References: <27183a390911180959x2df88dc6k49db1d64d9f84170@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27183a390911241030o5750a4d5x5d5df1d3010a22f3@mail.gmail.com> Bit late, but to remind you people.. This is tonight 2009/11/18 Andy Selby : > The monthly MKLUG/MiltonKeynes.pm meet-up is nearly upon us! > > As ever, it will be held at the Wetherspoons pub, near the railway > station (not the one in the snow dome), next door to Chiquitos: > > http://miltonkeynes.openguides.org/?J.D_Wetherspoon%2C_Central_Milton_Keynes > > Starting from 8pm, and going on till the last people stumble off home. > Feel free to bring your laptop/Linux device along if you want a hand/to > show off. > From pm at gavinwestwood.co.uk Mon Nov 30 06:20:40 2009 From: pm at gavinwestwood.co.uk (Gavin Westwood) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:20:40 +0000 Subject: Borders Closing Down Sale Message-ID: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> Borders is closing down with 20% off most of it's books and other stuff (advertised as 50%, but good luck finding where those items are...). I was in there at lunchtime and there were a number of general IT, Mac, some Linux, a load of LAMP/PHP/etc and other web development and one or two Perl books in the computing section, as well as obviously book from the other genres. If any of you are interested you'll probably want to get along sooner rather than later. I now have a number of Christmas presents (including my own) sorted... Gavin From andyfrommk at googlemail.com Mon Nov 30 07:55:21 2009 From: andyfrommk at googlemail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:55:21 +0000 Subject: Borders Closing Down Sale In-Reply-To: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> References: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> Message-ID: <1259596521.2503.17.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> > Borders is closing down with 20% off most of it's books and other stuff > (advertised as 50%, but good luck finding where those items are...).? > Gavin Thanks for the heads up Gavin, just one question: where is Borders? Andy Sent from my N900 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom at eborcom.com Mon Nov 30 08:47:13 2009 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:47:13 +0000 Subject: Borders Closing Down Sale In-Reply-To: <1259596521.2503.17.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> References: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> <1259596521.2503.17.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> Message-ID: <20091130164713.GA99993@eborcom.com> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:55:21PM +0000, Andy Selby wrote: > Thanks for the heads up Gavin, just one question: > where is Borders? It's here: http://www.multimap.com/s/g4I5Y9zA Note, http://miltonkeynes.borders.co.uk/store/miltonkeynes/23/ puts a marker in the wrong place. Although http://www.openstreetmap.org/ has much better coverage than it did, it doesn't have Borders on there yet. Helpfully adding such things is always a good idea. Tom From andyfrommk at googlemail.com Mon Nov 30 09:41:36 2009 From: andyfrommk at googlemail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:41:36 +0000 Subject: Borders Closing Down Sale In-Reply-To: <20091130164713.GA99993@eborcom.com> References: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> <1259596521.2503.17.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> <20091130164713.GA99993@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <1259602896.2619.5.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:55:21PM +0000, Andy Selby wrote: > > Thanks for the heads up Gavin, just one question: > > where is Borders? > > It's here: > http://www.multimap.com/s/g4I5Y9zA Thanks Tom > Although http://www.openstreetmap.org/ has much better coverage than > it did, it doesn't have Borders on there yet.? Helpfully adding such > things is always a good idea. Not if its closing down and will not be there for much longer Andy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andyfrommk at googlemail.com Mon Nov 30 11:17:15 2009 From: andyfrommk at googlemail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:17:15 +0000 Subject: Meeting: Tuesday 29th December Message-ID: <27183a390911301117j457d64amc3306444eb780918@mail.gmail.com> The monthly MKLUG/MiltonKeynes.pm meet-up is nowhere near upon us! At the last meeting we discussed when to have a December meeting and since the last Tuesday of the month falls on the 29th it should not be a problem meeting up then. As ever, it will be held at the Wetherspoons pub, near the railway station (not the one in the snow dome), next door to Chiquitos: http://miltonkeynes.openguides.org/?J.D_Wetherspoon%2C_Central_Milton_Keynes Starting from 8pm, and going on till the last people stumble off home. Feel free to bring your laptop/Linux device/New Nokia N900 along if you want a hand/to show off/Rub in your iPhone faces. From bob at randomness.org.uk Mon Nov 30 13:02:01 2009 From: bob at randomness.org.uk (Bob Walker) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:02:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: N900 In-Reply-To: <27183a390911301117j457d64amc3306444eb780918@mail.gmail.com> References: <27183a390911301117j457d64amc3306444eb780918@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Andy Selby wrote: > Starting from 8pm, and going on till the last people stumble off home. > Feel free to bring your laptop/Linux device/New Nokia N900 along if > you want a hand/to > show off/Rub in your iPhone faces. So how are you finding your N900? or were you fakign your previous emails :) -- bob walker buses should be purple and bendy From tom at eborcom.com Mon Nov 30 13:05:52 2009 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:05:52 +0000 Subject: Borders Closing Down Sale In-Reply-To: <1259602896.2619.5.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> References: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> <1259596521.2503.17.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> <20091130164713.GA99993@eborcom.com> <1259602896.2619.5.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> Message-ID: <20091130210552.GC99993@eborcom.com> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 05:41:36PM +0000, Andy Selby wrote: > > Although http://www.openstreetmap.org/ has much better coverage than > > it did, it doesn't have Borders on there yet. Helpfully adding such > > things is always a good idea. > > Not if its closing down and will not be there for much longer True. Plenty of other "such things" exist in Milton Keynes that aren't mapped yet. Those of us in Britain's fastest growing city should recognise the need for OSM given the commercial mapping sector's failure to recognise the postcode of a shop that's about to close. If you haven't already edited OSM, have a play soon. I've not mentioned it for a few months now and it really is a wonderful project. To bring this back to the original topic, you should all buy a copy of Samantha Harvey's "The Wilderness", which I think I've already mentioned to some of you. Tom From andyfrommk at googlemail.com Mon Nov 30 13:13:48 2009 From: andyfrommk at googlemail.com (Andy Selby) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:13:48 +0000 Subject: N900 In-Reply-To: References: <27183a390911301117j457d64amc3306444eb780918@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1259615628.2619.55.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> ----- Original message ----- > On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Andy Selby wrote: > > Starting from 8pm, and going on till the last people stumble off home. > > Feel free to bring your laptop/Linux device/New Nokia N900 along if > > you want a hand/to > > show off/Rub in your iPhone faces. > > So how are you finding your N900? > or were you fakign your previous emails :) Very nice, no hardware defects. Unfortunately there is no TAB key but the UI is great. I'll install Perl on it by the next meeting. And yes, I did add that "sent from my N900" by hand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at dave.org.uk Mon Nov 30 13:18:01 2009 From: dave at dave.org.uk (Dave Cross) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:18:01 +0000 Subject: Borders Closing Down Sale In-Reply-To: <20091130210552.GC99993@eborcom.com> References: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> <1259596521.2503.17.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> <20091130164713.GA99993@eborcom.com> <1259602896.2619.5.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> <20091130210552.GC99993@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <4B143689.1090409@dave.org.uk> On 30/11/09 21:05, Tom Hukins wrote: > Those of us in Britain's fastest growing city The fastest growing city that isn't actually a city :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_United_Kingdom I've often wondered why the citizens of MK refer to their town as a city. Ah. Wikipedia also has this: "In its planning, the government of the day intended Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, to be a "new city" in scale, and it was referred to as such in contemporary supporting papers, but was gazetted in 1967 as a New Town. It has used the term "City Centre" on its buses and road signs for many years, mainly to avoid confusion with the centres of its pre-existing constituent towns." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom (in a section entitled "Pretenders" :-) Dave... From tom at eborcom.com Mon Nov 30 13:26:33 2009 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:26:33 +0000 Subject: Borders Closing Down Sale In-Reply-To: <4B143689.1090409@dave.org.uk> References: <4B13D4B8.9000104@gavinwestwood.co.uk> <1259596521.2503.17.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> <20091130164713.GA99993@eborcom.com> <1259602896.2619.5.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> <20091130210552.GC99993@eborcom.com> <4B143689.1090409@dave.org.uk> Message-ID: <20091130212633.GD99993@eborcom.com> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 09:18:01PM +0000, Dave Cross wrote: > On 30/11/09 21:05, Tom Hukins wrote: > >Those of us in Britain's fastest growing city > > The fastest growing city that isn't actually a city :-) Yes, it's a peculiar quirk of the way civil servants disagree with town (and city!) planners. Locally, saying "the city" helps avoid confusion with Bletchley, Newport, Stony, Wolverton or other places that have a town centre. Personally, I continue to refer to Milton Keynes as a city because it feels like one: particularly when compared with York and Aberdeen where I lived beforehand. I don't mind waiting patiently for London-based civil servants to catch up with reality and advise the queen appropriately. :) Tom From bob at randomness.org.uk Mon Nov 30 13:37:59 2009 From: bob at randomness.org.uk (Bob Walker) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:37:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: N900 In-Reply-To: <1259615628.2619.55.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> References: <27183a390911301117j457d64amc3306444eb780918@mail.gmail.com> <1259615628.2619.55.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Andy Selby wrote: > > Unfortunately there is no TAB key but the UI is great. more importantly as a vi user. is there an ESC key? :) -- bob walker buses should be purple and bendy