From tom at eborcom.com Wed Mar 7 11:00:59 2007 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 19:00:59 +0000 Subject: Odds and Ends Message-ID: <20070307190059.GA35534@eborcom.com> Hi all, I thought I should mention these things: - Talk Slides Online - Next Technical (talks) Meeting - Next Social (pub) Meeting - YAPC Europe We had our last technical meeting in October, but it seems someone forgot to put the slides online. How forgetful! Anyway, mine and Lee's are now online: http://miltonkeynes.pm.org/ Robbie, is there anything you'd like online for your talk? Nik, I hope you have your slides somewhere, because I'm nor sure I do.. October was some time ago, so we've decided to have another technical meeting on Monday 2nd April. We'll be meeting at the Open University this time: Ian has booked us a room and is writing up directions so we can find the room alright. Oliver and Peter have offered to talk so far. Anyone else? I'll send out a formal announcement soon. None of this will interfere with our regular "last Tuesday of the month" visit to the pub on 27th March. See you there! Finally, we've had word from that hotels in Vienna near to the venue are booking up quickly for YAPC::Europe, so book yours now. This is the major European Perl conference, and it's well worth attending: http://vienna.yapceurope.org/ye2007/accomodation.html Tom From michael at galton.ucl.ac.uk Wed Mar 7 13:38:16 2007 From: michael at galton.ucl.ac.uk (michael) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:38:16 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Odds and Ends In-Reply-To: <20070307190059.GA35534@eborcom.com> References: <20070307190059.GA35534@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <20070307213435.W61368@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Tom Hukins wrote: > October was some time ago, so we've decided to have another technical > meeting on Monday 2nd April. We'll be meeting at the Open University > this time: Ian has booked us a room and is writing up directions so > we can find the room alright. Oliver and Peter have offered to talk > so far. Anyone else? I'll send out a formal announcement soon. Is there any way we can score a video camera for this? I've just about finished uploading the YAPC::Braga talks to Google Video and am now in the market for new videos. -- Michael From tom at eborcom.com Thu Mar 8 02:13:29 2007 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:13:29 +0000 Subject: YAPC::Europe re-scheduled to start a day earlier Message-ID: <20070308101328.GA41534@eborcom.com> If you planned to go to YAPC::Europe, please read this announcement from the organisers: ----- Forwarded message from Thomas Klausner ----- Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:01:43 +0100 From: Thomas Klausner To: conferences at yapceurope.org Subject: [Conferences] YACP::Europe re-scheduled to start a day earlier! Reply-To: Discussion about YAPC conferences List-Id: Discussion about YAPC conferences The bad news: The Conference has to be rescheduled slightly ----------------------------------------------------------- The ESC Congress 2007 is even bigger than we thought. They expect 15.000 cardiologists, plus their spouses! Due to this, there is nearly not a single bed available in Vienna for the night from Friday, 31st August to Saturday, 1st September. As we do not want to force you to leave on the last day of the conference, we decided to **reschedule YAPC::Europe to Tuesday, 28th to Thursday, 30th August.** We are very sorry for this, and do hope that it does not cause any problems for anybody who might have already booked his or her flights or hotel. If this change does cause you some problems, please inform us, and we'll see what we can do to help you. The good news: Register or submit a talk until 31th March and win a book! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have two coffee-table books (one including a DVD) on Vienna to raffle off. To enter the contest, all you need to do is to either register for the conference and pay your ticket, or submit a talk proposal until 31th March. - Zentralfriedhof Vienna: The living Graveyard. Including DVD: Universum Documentary A documentary about the Zentralfriedhof, which is the second largest cemetery by area and largest by number of interred in Europe. In German and English. - Wien. Tradition und Moderne. by Doris Simhofer This book is German only, but has lots of nice photos :-) Winners will be announced on 3th April. YAPC::Europe 2007 website: -------------------------- http://vienna.yapceurope.org Thomas Klausner, on behalf of Vienna.pm -- #!/usr/bin/perl http://domm.zsi.at for(ref bless{},just'another'perl'hacker){s-:+-$"-g&&print$_.$/} _______________________________________________ Conferences mailing list Conferences at yapceurope.org http://lists.yapceurope.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences ----- End forwarded message ----- From I.A.Cameron at open.ac.uk Thu Mar 8 08:45:57 2007 From: I.A.Cameron at open.ac.uk (Ian Cameron) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:45:57 +0000 Subject: Odds and Ends In-Reply-To: <20070307213435.W61368@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> References: <20070307190059.GA35534@eborcom.com> <20070307213435.W61368@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: michael said: > Is there any way we can score a video camera for this? I've just about > finished uploading the YAPC::Braga talks to Google Video > > and am now in the market for new videos. I can get hold of one for the evening if required. -- Cheers, Ian. From oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 14 06:58:29 2007 From: oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Oliver Gorwits) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:58:29 +0000 Subject: Odds and Ends In-Reply-To: <20070307190059.GA35534@eborcom.com> References: <20070307190059.GA35534@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <45F7FF85.5000907@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Tom Hukins wrote: > We'll be meeting at the Open University > this time: Ian has booked us a room and is writing up directions so > we can find the room alright. Oliver and Peter have offered to talk > so far. Sorry, folks, I've had to back out of giving the talk (and attending) due to other commitments. I'll be first on Tom's list for the next tech meet, though! Have a pint for me, regards, olly. -- Oliver Gorwits, Network Infrastructure Group, Oxford University Computing Services From tom at eborcom.com Wed Mar 14 07:18:24 2007 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:18:24 +0000 Subject: Odds and Ends In-Reply-To: <45F7FF85.5000907@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <20070307190059.GA35534@eborcom.com> <45F7FF85.5000907@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20070314141824.GA8831@eborcom.com> On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 01:58:29PM +0000, Oliver Gorwits wrote: > Sorry, folks, I've had to back out of giving the talk (and attending) > due to other commitments. Thanks for letting us know. In the mean time, I've been chasing up a few other potential speakers. The meeting will go ahead on Monday 2nd April, we just don't know exactly what talks it will contain yet. > I'll be first on Tom's list for the next tech meet, though! Of course. Once you've volunteered, there's no escape. Tom From leelarcombe at hotmail.com Wed Mar 14 09:32:39 2007 From: leelarcombe at hotmail.com (Lee Larcombe) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:32:39 +0000 Subject: Brainteaser (help!) Message-ID: Hi All I was wondering if anyone could think of a solution to a problem I have. I have a script which contains an array which looks like: @arrayG = qw (1.048 0.657 0.437 2.363 1.964 0.787 1.078 0.686); I need to know the array position of the largest number, ie 2.363 is largest, but I need to return $arrayG[3] - the '3' is what I need. I thought that I could also turn this into a hash: %hashG = {a=>1.048, b=>0.657, c=>0.437, d=>2.363, e=>1.964, f=>0.787, g=>1.078, h=>0.686}; Reverse the hash so that the keys become values and the values keys. %reverseHashG = {1.048=>a, 0.657=>b, 0.437=>c, 2.363=>d, 1.964=>e, 0.787=>f, 1.078=>g, 0.686=>h}; The take $arrayG[0] from a sorted array and use it to read the value in the reversed hash: $reverseHashG{$arrayG[0]} The I would get the answer 'd' - telling me essentially what I need to know. However: 1. This seems like a round about way of doing it - shouldn't it be easier? 2. There might be a case where two of the numbers in the original array are the same. When the hash is reversed I will lose some of these - this would be a problem if the two equal values were equal largest, plus how would the array sort work if there were two equal largest values? I have tried 'The Internet', a couple of books, and some colleagues here, but we cannot think of a way to do this. Any insight would be gratefully received. Thanks Lee ============================ Lee Larcombe www.larcombesplace.org.uk msn: leelarcombe at hotmail.com jabber: leelarcombe at jabber.com ICQ: 381691209 skype: leelarcombe (by prior arrangement) ============================ From oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 14 09:39:37 2007 From: oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Oliver Gorwits) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:39:37 +0000 Subject: Brainteaser (help!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45F82549.6030004@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lee Larcombe wrote: > @arrayG = qw (1.048 0.657 0.437 2.363 1.964 0.787 1.078 0.686); > > I need to know the array position of the largest number, ie 2.363 is > largest, but I need to return $arrayG[3] - the '3' is what I need. Try a combination of max() from List::Util (ships with Perl) and then first_index() from List::MoreUtils (on the CPAN). regards, oliver. -- Oliver Gorwits, Network Infrastructure Group, Oxford University Computing Services From robbie at robbiebow.co.uk Wed Mar 14 11:55:27 2007 From: robbie at robbiebow.co.uk (Robbie Bow) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:55:27 +0000 Subject: Brainteaser (help!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45F8451F.6030108@robbiebow.co.uk> > I was wondering if anyone could think of a solution to a problem I have. I > have a script which contains an array which looks like: > > @arrayG = qw (1.048 0.657 0.437 2.363 1.964 0.787 1.078 0.686); > > I need to know the array position of the largest number, ie 2.363 is > largest, but I need to return $arrayG[3] - the '3' is what I need. Here's my easy to read way: use strict; my @arrayG = qw (1.048 0.657 0.437 2.363 1.964 0.787 1.078 0.686); my $index = undef; my $num = undef; for (my $i=0; $i $num) { $num = $arrayG[$i]; $index = $i; } } But I never have found an easier way to iterate through a list and know at what iteration I am at. From leelarcombe at hotmail.com Thu Mar 15 01:58:30 2007 From: leelarcombe at hotmail.com (Lee Larcombe) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:58:30 +0000 Subject: Re Brainteaser - thanks! Message-ID: Hi Thanks for the help yesterday. I went with the option of using List::Utils and List::MoreUtils > I was wondering if anyone could think of a solution to a problem I have. I > have a script which contains an array which looks like: > > @arrayG = qw (1.048 0.657 0.437 2.363 1.964 0.787 1.078 0.686); > > I need to know the array position of the largest number, ie 2.363 is > largest, but I need to return $arrayG[3] - the '3' is what I need. This worked as simply: Use List::Utils qw(max); Use List::MoreUtils qw(firstidx); $highest = max @arrayG; $identifier = firstidx {$_ == $highest} @arrayG; Very neat - Thanks. I still don't know how max works when there are two equal values in the array which are equal largest, but I think I can ignore this for now - it might never happen. Lee ============================ Lee Larcombe www.larcombesplace.org.uk msn: leelarcombe at hotmail.com jabber: leelarcombe at jabber.com ICQ: 381691209 skype: leelarcombe (by prior arrangement) ============================ From oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 15 07:44:32 2007 From: oliver.gorwits at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Oliver Gorwits) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:44:32 +0000 Subject: Job Vacancies: Network Development and Support Message-ID: <45F95BD0.20107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Hi folks, We currently have two vacancies within my team, which runs the backbone data network and related services for the University of Oxford. The work requires a good understanding of all areas of IP data networking from the hardware involved, through the operation of network protocols to the provision of software services to all members of the University. There is, naturally, a lot of Perl involved :-) Further details and an application form are available here: http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/jobs/networkdev.xml regards, oliver. -- Oliver Gorwits, Network Infrastructure Group, Oxford University Computing Services From robbie at robbiebow.co.uk Sun Mar 18 03:38:13 2007 From: robbie at robbiebow.co.uk (Robbie Bow) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:38:13 +0000 Subject: Cambridge PM pub meet Message-ID: <45FD1695.1010101@robbiebow.co.uk> Hi all, I know there's a couple of people on this list that are in the Cambridge area so thought it a good idea to spam y'all. Basically, I've plucked a date and location out of the air for a Cambridge pub meet, these being: 7pm, Wednesday 18th April Salisbury Arms 76 Tenison Rd Cambridge CB1 2DW http://www.salisburyarms.co.uk/ Pretty close to the station and roomy, but if anyone has any suggestions apropos a better venue or time, do please shout. If you can make it, please do. Would be good to have a beer, muse organising a tech meet, chew the fat, have a beer... Cheers, Robbie From tom at eborcom.com Thu Mar 22 14:04:16 2007 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:04:16 +0000 Subject: Meeting on Tuesday 27th March 2007 Message-ID: <20070322210416.GA95880@eborcom.com> Our third meeting of 2007 takes place next Tuesday in the usual pub, Wetherspoon's near Milton Keynes railway station: http://miltonkeynes.openguides.org/?J.D_Wetherspoon%2C_Central_Milton_Keynes These meetings contain varied discussion about Perl and all sorts of other things. It doesn't matter how much Perl you know, what you do with it, or if you just want to have a few drinks. This month, we're holding a joint meeting with the Milton Keynes Linux User Group: http://www.mk.lug.org.uk/ It doesn't matter if you have no interest in Linux, but bear in mind that a few people won't care much about Perl. But we've found there's a significant overlap between the membership of both groups, so we thought we'd meet together. I'll arrive some time between 7.30 and 8pm depending on how the trains feel. Ask off-list if you would like my mobile number in case you have trouble finding us. You should be able to spot us by looking for the laminated penguins. Also, the week after, on Monday 2nd April we'll hold our first set of talks this year at the Open University. I'll send out details before long. Promise. See you soon, Tom From tom at eborcom.com Wed Mar 28 01:28:27 2007 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:28:27 +0100 Subject: Meeting on Tuesday 27th March 2007 In-Reply-To: <20070322210416.GA95880@eborcom.com> References: <20070322210416.GA95880@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <20070328082827.GB58408@eborcom.com> On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:04:16PM +0000, Tom Hukins wrote: > This month, we're holding a joint meeting with the Milton Keynes Linux > User Group: Thanks to everyone who turned up - I enjoyed the meeting. We had a brief discussion about how eBay use database transactions that I found interesting. I've just found this: http://mult.ifario.us/articles/2007/03/20/not-quite-no-transactions Also, I mentioned that I'm going to the Nordic Perl Workshop at the end of April: http://conferences.yapceurope.org/npw2007/ > Also, the week after, on Monday 2nd April we'll hold our first set of > talks this year at the Open University. I'll send out details before > long. Promise. I should remind everyone this is going ahead. I hope to post details and directions tomorrow. See you soon! Tom From tom at eborcom.com Thu Mar 29 00:41:48 2007 From: tom at eborcom.com (Tom Hukins) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:41:48 +0100 Subject: A Choice of Technical Talks Message-ID: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> We've been offered a choice of technical talks by Barbie from Birmingham.pm on Monday. I suggest we choose one regular talk and a lightning talk. So, what would you like to hear about? * Graphing with Perl * Selenium - An Introduction to Web Testing * Using Phrasebooks - A Design Pattern * Preparing For CPAN * Smoking The Stats (Lightning Talk) * So Damn Kludgy (Lightning Talk) Details of each are on the Birmingham.pm Talks page on the website: http://birmingham.pm.org/ Tom From zsuzen at acm.org Thu Mar 29 02:11:05 2007 From: zsuzen at acm.org (Ziya Suzen) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:11:05 +0100 Subject: A Choice of Technical Talks In-Reply-To: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> References: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <7e7471f80703290211u4c4f417dj41f62ae6a9078472@mail.gmail.com> These sounded interesting to me: Using Phrasebooks - A Design Pattern So Damn Kludgy (Lightning Talk) -z On 3/29/07, Tom Hukins wrote: > We've been offered a choice of technical talks by Barbie from > Birmingham.pm on Monday. I suggest we choose one regular talk and a > lightning talk. So, what would you like to hear about? > > * Graphing with Perl > * Selenium - An Introduction to Web Testing > * > * Preparing For CPAN > * Smoking The Stats (Lightning Talk) > * > > Details of each are on the Birmingham.pm Talks page on the website: > http://birmingham.pm.org/ > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > MiltonKeynes-pm mailing list > MiltonKeynes-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/miltonkeynes-pm > From michael at galton.ucl.ac.uk Thu Mar 29 04:04:13 2007 From: michael at galton.ucl.ac.uk (michael) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:04:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: A Choice of Technical Talks In-Reply-To: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> References: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <20070329114936.X38087@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> Earlyer versions for two of thoes talks are avalable on Google Video (Phrasebooks and CPAN from YAPC::Braga) and there is a talk on Selenium by 'Jason Huggins'. Perhaps if we did choose one of these we should agree to watch the video so Barbie could concentrate on some of the later slides... There is an increasing number of tech talks on google Programming talks gets 205 hits, Perl gets 331 hits http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5160435487953918649 -- Michael ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael John Lush PhD Tel:44-20-7679-5027 Nomenclature Bioinformatician Fax:44-20-7387-3496 HUGO Gene Nomenclature Committee Email: nome at galton.ucl.ac.uk The Galton Laboratory University College London, UK URL: http://www.gene.ucl.ac.uk/nomenclature/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Thu, 29 Mar 2007, Tom Hukins wrote: > We've been offered a choice of technical talks by Barbie from > Birmingham.pm on Monday. I suggest we choose one regular talk and a > lightning talk. So, what would you like to hear about? > > * Graphing with Perl > * Selenium - An Introduction to Web Testing > * Using Phrasebooks - A Design Pattern > * Preparing For CPAN > * Smoking The Stats (Lightning Talk) > * So Damn Kludgy (Lightning Talk) > > Details of each are on the Birmingham.pm Talks page on the website: > http://birmingham.pm.org/ > -- Michael ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael John Lush PhD Tel:44-20-7679-5027 Nomenclature Bioinformatician Fax:44-20-7387-3496 HUGO Gene Nomenclature Committee Email: nome at galton.ucl.ac.uk The Galton Laboratory University College London, UK URL: http://www.gene.ucl.ac.uk/nomenclature/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From michael at galton.ucl.ac.uk Thu Mar 29 04:29:50 2007 From: michael at galton.ucl.ac.uk (michael) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:29:50 +0100 (BST) Subject: Recording terminal sessions In-Reply-To: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> References: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> Message-ID: <20070329120452.W38087@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> Does anyone have any suggestions for video capture of Xwindow console sessions. I've had a poke round google tryed a few but didn't find anything the 'just worked'. I'm trying to do a series of 'e-chalk and talk' videos aimed at getting the utter newby from "I know no perl or UNIX" to "I can do something useful with perl/UNIX and I have learned how to learn about perl". -- Michael From leelarcombe at hotmail.com Thu Mar 29 05:38:03 2007 From: leelarcombe at hotmail.com (Lee Larcombe) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:38:03 +0100 Subject: Recording terminal sessions In-Reply-To: <20070329120452.W38087@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi I have heard of this before, but never tried it: http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/ Looks like it might be suitable. Lee On 29/3/07 12:29, "michael" wrote: > > Does anyone have any suggestions for video capture of Xwindow console > sessions. I've had a poke round google tryed a few but didn't find > anything the 'just worked'. > > I'm trying to do a series of 'e-chalk and talk' videos aimed at getting > the utter newby from "I know no perl or UNIX" to "I can do something > useful with perl/UNIX and I have learned how to learn about perl". > > > -- > Michael > _______________________________________________ > MiltonKeynes-pm mailing list > MiltonKeynes-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/miltonkeynes-pm > ============================ Lee Larcombe www.larcombesplace.org.uk msn: leelarcombe at hotmail.com jabber: leelarcombe at jabber.com ICQ: 381691209 skype: leelarcombe (by prior arrangement) ============================ From ziya at suzen.net Thu Mar 29 06:52:13 2007 From: ziya at suzen.net (Ziya Suzen) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:52:13 +0100 Subject: Recording terminal sessions In-Reply-To: <20070329120452.W38087@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> References: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> <20070329120452.W38087@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7e7471f80703290652s15fc8d5by3c374240d1e62791@mail.gmail.com> I have used this the other day (on ms windows) and it worked fine: http://www.debugmode.com/wink/ Generates a flash file out of your screen capture and you can even add notes, shapes and so on. Very helpful for recording demos. They claim to have a Linux version as well, but I haven't tried that one. -z On 3/29/07, michael wrote: > > Does anyone have any suggestions for video capture of Xwindow console > sessions. I've had a poke round google tryed a few but didn't find > anything the 'just worked'. > > I'm trying to do a series of 'e-chalk and talk' videos aimed at getting > the utter newby from "I know no perl or UNIX" to "I can do something > useful with perl/UNIX and I have learned how to learn about perl". > > > -- > Michael > _______________________________________________ > MiltonKeynes-pm mailing list > MiltonKeynes-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/miltonkeynes-pm > From barbie at missbarbell.co.uk Sat Mar 31 11:06:49 2007 From: barbie at missbarbell.co.uk (Barbie) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 19:06:49 +0100 Subject: A Choice of Technical Talks In-Reply-To: <20070329114936.X38087@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> References: <20070329074147.GA66588@eborcom.com> <20070329114936.X38087@diamond.gene.ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20070331180649.GK12097@smtp.blueyonder.co.uk> On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 12:04:13PM +0100, michael wrote: > > Earlyer versions for two of thoes talks are avalable on Google Video > (Phrasebooks and CPAN from YAPC::Braga) and there is a talk on Selenium by > 'Jason Huggins'. The Phrasebook talk has been rewritten since Braga, so the flow is slightly different, and the contents are a bit more up to date with the changes to Data::Phrasebook. Although having said that, it's not too far removed from the Braga version :) Thanks for the pointer to the Selenium talk, I was previously looking for other presentations to see how mine compares. Tom, do you have directions for us out-of-towners? Not sure who will be joining me from Brum.pm, but of those who've hinted they might come along, all will be driving as far as I know. Cheers, Barbie. -- Birmingham Perl Mongers - http://birmingham.pm.org Miss Barbell Productions - http://www.missbarbell.co.uk