From stephen.edmonds at monash.edu Thu Nov 1 19:59:09 2012 From: stephen.edmonds at monash.edu (Stephen Edmonds) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:59:09 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Handling line ending characters Message-ID: I was wondering what techniques people use to handle getting different line ending characters from various sources. The specific example I have in mind is a field on a web form. The field uses jQuery to check client side that the input is less than 100 characters, and then we check again on the server side in perl. If the form is submitted from Windows, then you get two characters per line ending. jQuery converts these to a single character it may think that the text is ok at 99 characters, but the two characters per line ending are actually submitted, so our server side check may think it is (for eg) 103 characters and error. It is an edge case where client side validation doesn't match the server side validation. One common solution seems to be to go to a regex with \r?\n, \015?\012, etc, while another option is to use Encode::Newlines (which does do regexes internally, but maintaining that is not our concern) A further question is do we convert the line endings for the validation and still store the originally submitted text, or do we store a converted version? How do people handle this? Thanks, Stephen -- Stephen Edmonds Technical Lead Applications Production manager for my.monash, Blackboard and Google Apps eSolutions, Monash University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benhare at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 20:11:24 2012 From: benhare at gmail.com (Ben Hare) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:41:24 +1030 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Handling line ending characters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: all you should need on the Perl side is something like: $str =~ s/[\r\n]*$//; also see perldoc -f chomp other common cleaning functions are: $str =~ s/^\s*//; and / or $str =~ s/\s*$//; some for modules have functions to do this sort of thing for you also. Ben. On 2 November 2012 13:29, Stephen Edmonds wrote: > I was wondering what techniques people use to handle getting different line > ending characters from various sources. > > The specific example I have in mind is a field on a web form. The field uses > jQuery to check client side that the input is less than 100 characters, and > then we check again on the server side in perl. If the form is submitted > from Windows, then you get two characters per line ending. jQuery converts > these to a single character it may think that the text is ok at 99 > characters, but the two characters per line ending are actually submitted, > so our server side check may think it is (for eg) 103 characters and error. > > It is an edge case where client side validation doesn't match the server > side validation. > > One common solution seems to be to go to a regex with \r?\n, \015?\012, etc, > while another option is to use Encode::Newlines (which does do regexes > internally, but maintaining that is not our concern) > > A further question is do we convert the line endings for the validation and > still store the originally submitted text, or do we store a converted > version? > > How do people handle this? > > Thanks, > Stephen > > -- > Stephen Edmonds > Technical Lead Applications > Production manager for my.monash, Blackboard and Google Apps > eSolutions, Monash University > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- Benjamin J. Hare Professional Web Development Services ABN: 22-48-55-71-887 Phone: +61-415-607-197 Web: http://www.benhare.com Email: ben at benhare.com From rob at eatenbyagrue.org Thu Nov 1 20:31:56 2012 From: rob at eatenbyagrue.org (Robert Norris) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:31:56 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Handling line ending characters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20121102033156.GA3729@pyro.melbourne.osa> On Fri, Nov 02, 2012 at 01:59:09PM +1100, Stephen Edmonds wrote: > One common solution seems to be to go to a regex with \r?\n, > \015?\012, etc, while another option is to use Encode::Newlines > (which does do regexes internally, but maintaining that is not our > concern) Either of these is fine. I've only ever done the regex, but modules are great. > A further question is do we convert the line endings for the > validation and still store the originally submitted text, or do we > store a converted version? Converted. Normalised, if you will. Unless its going to make a difference if you send it back to the client for display. I would hope not. Rob. From kahlil.hodgson at dealmax.com.au Fri Nov 2 23:26:17 2012 From: kahlil.hodgson at dealmax.com.au (Kahlil Hodgson) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 17:26:17 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Handling line ending characters In-Reply-To: <20121102033156.GA3729@pyro.melbourne.osa> References: <20121102033156.GA3729@pyro.melbourne.osa> Message-ID: <5094B909.4000001@dealmax.com.au> On 02/11/12 14:31, Robert Norris wrote: >> A further question is do we convert the line endings for the >> validation and still store the originally submitted text, or do we >> store a converted version? > > Converted. Normalised, if you will. Unless its going to make a > difference if you send it back to the client for display. I would hope > not. I generally normalise the data before validating (trimming white space at the edges) and store and return the normalised version. Do this for both server and client side for consistency. Have not encountered, nor can think of, any scenarios where this breaks anything. K -- Kahlil (Kal) Hodgson GPG: C9A02289 Head of Technology (m) +61 (0) 4 2573 0382 DealMax Pty Ltd (w) +61 (0) 3 9008 5281 Suite 1415 401 Docklands Drive Docklands VIC 3008 Australia "All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer." -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 From sisyphus1 at optusnet.com.au Tue Nov 6 05:18:39 2012 From: sisyphus1 at optusnet.com.au (Sisyphus) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:18:39 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me Message-ID: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> Hi, I use mainly MS Windows - not that I understand that OS all that well, but I probably understand it better than I understand the linux systems. I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ 2.40 GHz processor, with 1.00 GB of RAM, and a (new) 465 GB hard drive. It's currently running (more like "walking") Windows Vista64, but now that I've got hold of a new Windows 7 (x64) box, I'd like to stick a 64-bit linux distro on this older box. The requirements are pretty basic: 1) Be able to connect to the internet via my Satellite BroadBand account with Optus; 2) Be able to run an OpenSSH server (so that I have a server against which I can easily test my Windows builds of x64 and x86 Net::SSH2); 3) Supply (or provide the capability to build) gcc-4.7.0 or later, including g++ and gfortran; 4) Supply (or provide the capability to build) recent versions of perl, going back to (say) perl-5.8.8; I take an interest in PDL, so X11, Prima, gnuplot, and PLplot are also of siginificance as regards graphics capabilities. I would expect that all of these are readily available on most versions of linux ... but please tell me if you happen to know that such expectation is unrealistic. Apart from that, I'm mainly just interested in checking on the modules that I maintain: http://search.cpan.org/~sisyphus/ Any advice ? Have I left out stuff that has a bearing ? Cheers, Rob From tjc at wintrmute.net Tue Nov 6 05:26:48 2012 From: tjc at wintrmute.net (Toby Wintermute) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:26:48 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> Message-ID: If you're relatively unfamiliar with Linux, I think you would do well to start with Ubuntu (Desktop edition) -- they do a good job of making things easier to use; and once you're familiar with it, there are loads of things you can tweak and improve too. Ubuntu tends to stay quite up-to-date with the software they bundle; also it has a very wide range of things available for it. -T On 7 November 2012 00:18, Sisyphus wrote: > Hi, > > I use mainly MS Windows - not that I understand that OS all that well, but I > probably understand it better than I understand the linux systems. > > I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ 2.40 GHz processor, > with 1.00 GB of RAM, and a (new) 465 GB hard drive. > It's currently running (more like "walking") Windows Vista64, but now that > I've got hold of a new Windows 7 (x64) box, I'd like to stick a 64-bit linux > distro on this older box. > > The requirements are pretty basic: > 1) Be able to connect to the internet via my Satellite BroadBand account > with Optus; > 2) Be able to run an OpenSSH server (so that I have a server against which I > can easily test my Windows builds of x64 and x86 Net::SSH2); > 3) Supply (or provide the capability to build) gcc-4.7.0 or later, including > g++ and gfortran; > 4) Supply (or provide the capability to build) recent versions of perl, > going back to (say) perl-5.8.8; > > I take an interest in PDL, so X11, Prima, gnuplot, and PLplot are also of > siginificance as regards graphics capabilities. I would expect that all of > these are readily available on most versions of linux ... but please tell > me if you happen to know that such expectation is unrealistic. > > Apart from that, I'm mainly just interested in checking on the modules that > I maintain: > http://search.cpan.org/~sisyphus/ > > Any advice ? Have I left out stuff that has a bearing ? > > Cheers, > Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer Things fall apart; the center cannot hold Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world From shlomif at shlomifish.org Tue Nov 6 06:26:57 2012 From: shlomif at shlomifish.org (Shlomi Fish) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 16:26:57 +0200 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> Message-ID: <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> Hi Rob, On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:18:39 +1100 "Sisyphus" wrote: > Hi, > > I use mainly MS Windows - not that I understand that OS all that well, but I > probably understand it better than I understand the linux systems. > > I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ 2.40 GHz processor, > with 1.00 GB of RAM, and a (new) 465 GB hard drive. > It's currently running (more like "walking") Windows Vista64, but now that > I've got hold of a new Windows 7 (x64) box, I'd like to stick a 64-bit linux > distro on this older box. > I would recommend something like Mageia - https://www.mageia.org/en/ . Its advantage is that while it has an x86-64 version, you can still install some 32-bit i586 packages from the package manager, which are sometimes needed by games, proprietary packages such as Skype, etc. Moreover, Mageia's perl package is up-to-date and superb, and it has a very good coverage of CPAN distributions packages as .rpms, and tools for packaging maintaining them: http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2012/08/tech-tip-how-to-package-and-maintain-cpan-distributions-in-mageia.html (short URL - http://xrl.us/bnyajo ) Caveat: I am a Mageia user and contributor. The reason why Debian and derivatives may not be as suitable for x86-64 is because I believe the x86-64 version does not allow you to easily install 32-bit i386 packages. Now for your requirements: > The requirements are pretty basic: > 1) Be able to connect to the internet via my Satellite BroadBand account > with Optus; Are you connecting using an Ethernet card? Is it a standard DHCP connection? How does the connection look like as far as the host computer is concerned? > 2) Be able to run an OpenSSH server (so that I have a server against which I > can easily test my Windows builds of x64 and x86 Net::SSH2); No problem here. I am running OpenSSH servers on both my Mageia machines, and it works very well. Of course, I don't recall running into any show-stopping problems with OpenSSH servers on any Linux distribution I tried, but Mageia is not exceptional in this respect. > 3) Supply (or provide the capability to build) gcc-4.7.0 or later, including > g++ and gfortran; I think gcc-4.7.2 is the latest version - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Compiler_Collection . gcc-4.7.2 ships with Mageia Linux Cauldron (the development distribution that will become the Mageia 3 release sooner or later), and you can install gcc-4.7.x from source, or by building the new .src.rpms on older distributions (I've done it several time). > 4) Supply (or provide the capability to build) recent versions of perl, > going back to (say) perl-5.8.8; Mageia has a very recent perl under /usr/bin/perl. If you're interested in building older versions of perl, then take a look at perlbrew: http://perlbrew.pl/ . You can urpmi a perlbrew package on Mageia, or otherwise install App::perlbrew. perlbrew works nicely on my systems. > > I take an interest in PDL, so X11, Prima, gnuplot, and PLplot are also of > siginificance as regards graphics capabilities. I would expect that all of > these are readily available on most versions of linux ... but please tell > me if you happen to know that such expectation is unrealistic. I think they should be either available or easy to install. Note that 1 GB of RAM is getting kinda low, especially for a 64-bit system, but if you can live without KDE and other memory hogs, then you should be OK. I'm running KDE comfortably on my x86-64 laptop with 3 GB of RAM. Regards, Shlomi Fish > > Apart from that, I'm mainly just interested in checking on the modules that > I maintain: > http://search.cpan.org/~sisyphus/ > > Any advice ? Have I left out stuff that has a bearing ? > > Cheers, > Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Understand what Open Source is - http://shlom.in/oss-fs XSLT is the number one cause of programmers? suicides since Visual Basic 1.0. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . From rob at eatenbyagrue.org Tue Nov 6 12:18:55 2012 From: rob at eatenbyagrue.org (Robert Norris) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 07:18:55 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> Message-ID: <20121106201855.GA20052@pyro.melbourne.osa> On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 04:26:57PM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote: > The reason why Debian and derivatives may not be as suitable for > x86-64 is because I believe the x86-64 version does not allow you to > easily install 32-bit i386 packages. Installing i386 stuff on x86_64 Debian is serviceable on the current stable release (6.0 "squeeze"), and utterly delightful under the next release (7.0 "wheezy", due Real Soon Now[tm]). And by "delightful" I mean you just point your package manager at the i386 package repository and everything just works. Not advocating for or against Debian for this particular application; I'm just throwing out some info about this single feature. Cheers, Rob. From andrew at sericyb.com.au Tue Nov 6 15:32:54 2012 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:32:54 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <20121106201855.GA20052@pyro.melbourne.osa> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> <20121106201855.GA20052@pyro.melbourne.osa> Message-ID: <50999E26.1060108@sericyb.com.au> On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 04:26:57PM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote: > The reason why Debian and derivatives may not be as suitable for > x86-64 is because I believe the x86-64 version does not allow you to > easily install 32-bit i386 packages. On Ubuntu 12.04 and later, you just add ":i386" to the package name when using apt-get on the command line. I have a mixture of i386 and x64 packages on my desktop and run previously-installed 32-bit Java, Windows (using Wine) and native Linux applications concurrently with 64-bit ones just fine. The dependency management will usually install both architectures automatically where required. Hope that helps, Andrew From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Tue Nov 6 15:42:42 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:42:42 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> Message-ID: <5099A072.4070806@strategicdata.com.au> On 07/11/12 01:26, Shlomi Fish wrote: > Hi Rob, > > On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:18:39 +1100 > "Sisyphus" wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I use mainly MS Windows - not that I understand that OS all that well, but I >> probably understand it better than I understand the linux systems. >> >> I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ 2.40 GHz processor, >> with 1.00 GB of RAM, and a (new) 465 GB hard drive. >> It's currently running (more like "walking") Windows Vista64, but now that >> I've got hold of a new Windows 7 (x64) box, I'd like to stick a 64-bit linux >> distro on this older box. >> > > I would recommend something like Mageia - https://www.mageia.org/en/ . Its > advantage is that while it has an x86-64 version, you can still install some > 32-bit i586 packages from the package manager, which are sometimes needed by > games, proprietary packages such as Skype, etc. At least on Ubuntu (and I gather recent Debians) I've never had any trouble with 32 and 64 bit stuff co-existing -- they have this multiarch thing going on. That said, I have hardly ever had to use it in recent years -- it seems like everything comes in 64-bit versions now. (including Skype, the package you mentioned as an example of requiring 32bit support. not true!) From sisyphus1 at optusnet.com.au Tue Nov 6 17:56:52 2012 From: sisyphus1 at optusnet.com.au (Sisyphus) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 12:56:52 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <5099A072.4070806@strategicdata.com.au> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2><20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> <5099A072.4070806@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <834F50FF5196415EBA548A9AC5BA7F5A@desktop2> Thanks for the feedback, guys. I don't have to make any decisions just yet - but Ubuntu Desktop is sounding good at the moment. I'm definitely wanting to up the RAM to at least 3GB (as was recommended to me in an off-list post) .... more, if feasible. I'll make enquiries to the shop about that. Cheers, Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Corkindale" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me > On 07/11/12 01:26, Shlomi Fish wrote: >> Hi Rob, >> >> On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:18:39 +1100 >> "Sisyphus" wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I use mainly MS Windows - not that I understand that OS all that well, >>> but I >>> probably understand it better than I understand the linux systems. >>> >>> I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ 2.40 GHz processor, >>> with 1.00 GB of RAM, and a (new) 465 GB hard drive. >>> It's currently running (more like "walking") Windows Vista64, but now >>> that >>> I've got hold of a new Windows 7 (x64) box, I'd like to stick a 64-bit >>> linux >>> distro on this older box. >>> >> >> I would recommend something like Mageia - https://www.mageia.org/en/ . >> Its >> advantage is that while it has an x86-64 version, you can still install >> some >> 32-bit i586 packages from the package manager, which are sometimes needed >> by >> games, proprietary packages such as Skype, etc. > > > At least on Ubuntu (and I gather recent Debians) I've never had any > trouble with 32 and 64 bit stuff co-existing -- they have this multiarch > thing going on. > > That said, I have hardly ever had to use it in recent years -- it seems > like everything comes in 64-bit versions now. (including Skype, the > package you mentioned as an example of requiring 32bit support. not true!) > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From adrian at ash-blue.org Tue Nov 6 19:23:58 2012 From: adrian at ash-blue.org (Adrian Masters) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:23:58 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <834F50FF5196415EBA548A9AC5BA7F5A@desktop2> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> <5099A072.4070806@strategicdata.com.au> <834F50FF5196415EBA548A9AC5BA7F5A@desktop2> Message-ID: <7BBBCAF6-FC84-4D02-8641-0E5757700705@ash-blue.org> You can try alternative windows managers. For example, xubuntu uses xfce which is less resource intensive than others like KDE and the default Ubuntu manager. Adrian On 07/11/2012, at 12:56 PM, "Sisyphus" wrote: > Thanks for the feedback, guys. > > I don't have to make any decisions just yet - but Ubuntu Desktop is sounding good at the moment. > > I'm definitely wanting to up the RAM to at least 3GB (as was recommended to me in an off-list post) .... more, if feasible. I'll make enquiries to the shop about that. > > Cheers, > Rob > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Corkindale" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 10:42 AM > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me > > >> On 07/11/12 01:26, Shlomi Fish wrote: >>> Hi Rob, >>> >>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:18:39 +1100 >>> "Sisyphus" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I use mainly MS Windows - not that I understand that OS all that well, but I >>>> probably understand it better than I understand the linux systems. >>>> >>>> I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ 2.40 GHz processor, >>>> with 1.00 GB of RAM, and a (new) 465 GB hard drive. >>>> It's currently running (more like "walking") Windows Vista64, but now that >>>> I've got hold of a new Windows 7 (x64) box, I'd like to stick a 64-bit linux >>>> distro on this older box. >>> >>> I would recommend something like Mageia - https://www.mageia.org/en/ . Its >>> advantage is that while it has an x86-64 version, you can still install some >>> 32-bit i586 packages from the package manager, which are sometimes needed by >>> games, proprietary packages such as Skype, etc. >> >> >> At least on Ubuntu (and I gather recent Debians) I've never had any trouble with 32 and 64 bit stuff co-existing -- they have this multiarch thing going on. >> >> That said, I have hardly ever had to use it in recent years -- it seems like everything comes in 64-bit versions now. (including Skype, the package you mentioned as an example of requiring 32bit support. not true!) >> _______________________________________________ >> Melbourne-pm mailing list >> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Tue Nov 6 19:27:21 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 14:27:21 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me In-Reply-To: <7BBBCAF6-FC84-4D02-8641-0E5757700705@ash-blue.org> References: <5410B65436374359B2E298FE35EB23F6@desktop2> <20121106162657.48931eab@lap.shlomifish.org> <5099A072.4070806@strategicdata.com.au> <834F50FF5196415EBA548A9AC5BA7F5A@desktop2> <7BBBCAF6-FC84-4D02-8641-0E5757700705@ash-blue.org> Message-ID: <5099D519.6070808@strategicdata.com.au> I (and quite a few other people) dislike Ubuntu's default Unity window manager. It tries to be very OSX-like. I find Cinnamon is much nicer for those of us accustomed to more traditional window managers. On 07/11/12 14:23, Adrian Masters wrote: > You can try alternative windows managers. For example, xubuntu uses xfce which is less resource intensive than others like KDE and the default Ubuntu manager. > Adrian > > On 07/11/2012, at 12:56 PM, "Sisyphus" wrote: > >> Thanks for the feedback, guys. >> >> I don't have to make any decisions just yet - but Ubuntu Desktop is sounding good at the moment. >> >> I'm definitely wanting to up the RAM to at least 3GB (as was recommended to me in an off-list post) .... more, if feasible. I'll make enquiries to the shop about that. >> >> Cheers, >> Rob >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Corkindale" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 10:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] [OT] Seeking the 64-bit linux that's right for me >> >> >>> On 07/11/12 01:26, Shlomi Fish wrote: >>>> Hi Rob, >>>> >>>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:18:39 +1100 >>>> "Sisyphus" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I use mainly MS Windows - not that I understand that OS all that well, but I >>>>> probably understand it better than I understand the linux systems. >>>>> >>>>> I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ 2.40 GHz processor, >>>>> with 1.00 GB of RAM, and a (new) 465 GB hard drive. >>>>> It's currently running (more like "walking") Windows Vista64, but now that >>>>> I've got hold of a new Windows 7 (x64) box, I'd like to stick a 64-bit linux >>>>> distro on this older box. >>>> >>>> I would recommend something like Mageia - https://www.mageia.org/en/ . Its >>>> advantage is that while it has an x86-64 version, you can still install some >>>> 32-bit i586 packages from the package manager, which are sometimes needed by >>>> games, proprietary packages such as Skype, etc. >>> >>> >>> At least on Ubuntu (and I gather recent Debians) I've never had any trouble with 32 and 64 bit stuff co-existing -- they have this multiarch thing going on. >>> >>> That said, I have hardly ever had to use it in recent years -- it seems like everything comes in 64-bit versions now. (including Skype, the package you mentioned as an example of requiring 32bit support. not true!) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Melbourne-pm mailing list >>> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Melbourne-pm mailing list >> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From alfiej at opera.com Tue Nov 6 21:14:45 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:14:45 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Reminder: Social Meeting - Wednesday the 14th of November 2012 Message-ID: <1352265285.19502.140661150473361.526181A5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Melbourne Perl Mongers, Just a friendly reminder that Melbourne Perl Mongers is having a social event next Wednesday and will start around 6:30pm: Beer DeLuxe The Atrium, Federation Square (Flinders street side) Corner of Flinders Street and Swanston Street If anyone objects, we'll probably do the same for December? Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From scottp at dd.com.au Fri Nov 9 11:39:09 2012 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:39:09 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] OSDC AGM 2012 Message-ID: The OSDC AGM will be held on Wednesday the 5th of December, 2012 at 5:15pm at: Google Room UTS Ultimo Campus 700 Harris St Ultimo, Sydney NSW NOMINATIONS ============ Nominations may be made by the 28th of November by email to scottp at dd.com.au Your message should include the name of the person you are nominating, and the position you are nominating them for. Valid nominations will be those where two members have nominated the same person for the same position. For the purposes of nominations, a member will be considered to be a person who was a member of the OSDC Announce list at the time this AGM was formally announced, or if in doubt has attended a previous OSDC Event. To make the nomination process as efficient as possible, please email nominations. The positions for nominations are: - 1 x President (Committee Chair) - 1 x Vice-President - 1 x Secretary - 1 x Treasurer - 2 x Ordinary Committee Members If there are multiple nominations for the same position, an opportunity to talk for a few minutes will be made on the night and a vote will be held. If insufficient nominations are received an opportunity to nominate will be available during the meeting. ATTENDANCE / MEMBERSHIP ========================= Everyone is welcome to the AGM. This is a grass roots effort and we need all the help we can get. The Open Source Developers' Club is an Incorporated Association under the Model Rules for Incorporated Associations. http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/library/publications/clubs-and-not-for-profits/incorporated-associations/model-rules-for-an-incorporated-association.doc The AGM will be held to elect a new executive committee for the organisation. Duties of the executive committee are mostly administrative and include considering applications for funding from open source groups and initiatives such as the bimonthly OSDClub meetings and Open Source Developers' Conference, and providing an umbrella organisation to Australian open source user groups such as the Melbourne Perl Mongers and the Melbourne PHP Users Group. Organisation of the Open Source Developers' Conference, bimonthly meetings, user groups and other associated groups that operate under the banner of the Open Source Developers' Club are performed by their respective organisers and the OSDClub executive committee members will not be required to assist in these areas as part of their position on the executive committee. They may of course elect to assist of their own accord. Everyone is welcome at the AGM. This is a grass roots effort and we need all the help we can get. AGENDA ======= * Last year reports * Committee Election 2012 * Closing Thank you Scott Penrose -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5928 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jarich at perltraining.com.au Sun Nov 11 17:40:09 2012 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:40:09 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Neat javascript stuff (easily syntax highlighting Perl code) Message-ID: <50A05379.30208@perltraining.com.au> G'day folk, This isn't (much) to do with Perl, but I thought you might be interested to know. A month or so ago, I changed all of our Perl tips to have syntax highlighting: http://www.perltraining.com.au/tips/ I was supremely jealous of metacpan and cpan being able to do this so I wanted to see how. Turned how that how metacpan was doing it (at least as I understood) was by using a javascript syntax highlighter from http://alexgorbatchev.com/SyntaxHighlighter/ How awesome! You can do this by linking within the site, or by downloading the libraries and installing them yourself. I chose the latter. Then I edited our mason code to add this into the head block for all of our tips pages: Paul added a filter so that all of our 
 tags so that they come out as




Finally, at the very end of our page we add:




And it's done!  Now all I need to do, when generating a perl tip, is to 
change any 
 blocks that aren't around code to instead be 
 and 
everything else will just look beautiful.  :)

You can see a lovely example with our latest tip on Text::CSV_XS: 
http://www.perltraining.com.au/tips/2012-11-07.html

So if you too want pretty, colourised Perl on your webpages, and you 
don't have an easier solution, yet, here's one you might find useful.

     J

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From scottp at dd.com.au  Sun Nov 11 18:59:58 2012
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:59:58 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] OSDClub meeting, Melbourne, 20th November
References: <509B4040.8080603@dechrai.com>
Message-ID: <07315B74-F0DB-46D6-AC83-27B62BBD6ACE@dd.com.au>


                                               Please distribute widely

It's been a while since an OSDClub meeting, the language-agnostic talks
that were alternately hosted by Melbourne PM and phpMelb, and as this
month's phpMelb talks both meet the agnosticity test, we'd love to
extend the invite to all developers.

When? 20th Nov

Where? We?re kindly hosted by Inspire9, our lovely venue sponsors, so
join us at about 6.30pm at Level 1, 41 Stewart Street, Richmond.

Talk 1: Security, Privacy and Anonymity; When a Little Information
Becomes a Dangerous Thing by Ben Dechrai

Talk 2: An Exercise in Database Out-Scaling by Rick Giner

Afterwards: some question time for anyone to talk about whatever they
want to (group related) and then head off to a nearby venue for food (if
still being served) and drink.

Full announcement with synopses:
http://phpmelb.org/2012/11/08/20th-nov-osdclub-security-privacy-and-anonymity-database-out-scaling/

If you're on Facebook and don't mind making your attendance public
knowledge, please find the event which will appear at
http://phpmelb.org/facebook soon and mark yourself as coming, so we have
an idea of how many people to expect.

Look forward to seeing you there,
Ben


From alfiej at opera.com  Tue Nov 13 15:17:09 2012
From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:17:09 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [TONIGHT] Reminder: Social Meeting - Wednesday the
	14th of November 2012
Message-ID: <1352848629.30557.140661153297693.7B51FE0C@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hello Melbourne Perl Mongers,

Just a friendly reminder that Melbourne Perl Mongers is having a social
event tonight which will start around 6:30pm:

  Beer DeLuxe
  The Atrium, Federation Square (Flinders street side)
  Corner of Flinders Street and Swanston Street

If anyone objects, we'll probably do the same for December?

Alfie
-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at opera.com

From ajsavige at yahoo.com.au  Wed Nov 21 12:16:24 2012
From: ajsavige at yahoo.com.au (Andrew Savige)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 12:16:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl History: Anyone know famous Australian Perl
	hacker "Lee"? (circa 1998)
Message-ID: <1353528984.86673.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

>From a long thread on London.pm re 25 years of Perl history:

?http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/Week-of-Mon-20121119/022974.html

Abigail remembers:

?"It was the winter of 97/98 that I went to NYC and met with Lee
?(an Australian guy; he came back to the US a year later to go
?to YAPC, and then I've lost track of him -- perhaps he gave
?birth to more famous Australian Perl community members that
?appeared later on the scene)"

Anyone got a clue who this mysterious "Lee" is?

Thanks,
/-\


From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Wed Nov 21 17:11:42 2012
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:11:42 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl History: Anyone know famous Australian Perl
 hacker "Lee"? (circa 1998)
In-Reply-To: <1353528984.86673.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1353528984.86673.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50AD7BCE.4000005@perltraining.com.au>

On 22/11/12 07:16, Andrew Savige wrote:
> Abigail remembers:
>
>   "It was the winter of 97/98 that I went to NYC and met with Lee
>   (an Australian guy; he came back to the US a year later to go
>   to YAPC, and then I've lost track of him -- perhaps he gave
>   birth to more famous Australian Perl community members that
>   appeared later on the scene)"
>
> Anyone got a clue who this mysterious "Lee" is?

Skud might know, but I don't.  Skud ran Melbourne Perl Mongers until she 
left the country some time in the late 90s.  I'm not sure what the 
meeting style was, I only remember going to a single group dinner once.

Paul and I (re)started Melbourne Perl Mongers in late 2001 if I recall 
correctly.  We may have had a Lee back then, but if we did I don't 
remember him.  Sorry.

Of course he may not have been a Melbournian.

Australians are notorious for not staying still.  He could live anywhere 
in the world by now.

     J

From scottp at dd.com.au  Wed Nov 21 17:26:36 2012
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:26:36 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl History: Anyone know famous Australian Perl
	hacker "Lee"? (circa 1998)
In-Reply-To: <50AD7BCE.4000005@perltraining.com.au>
References: <1353528984.86673.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<50AD7BCE.4000005@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <29B7E40D-A4AA-4DAF-9E6C-CFE61AA974BA@dd.com.au>


On 22/11/2012, at 12:11 PM, Jacinta  wrote:

> On 22/11/12 07:16, Andrew Savige wrote:
>> Abigail remembers:
>> 
>>  "It was the winter of 97/98 that I went to NYC and met with Lee
>>  (an Australian guy; he came back to the US a year later to go
>>  to YAPC, and then I've lost track of him -- perhaps he gave
>>  birth to more famous Australian Perl community members that
>>  appeared later on the scene)"
>> 
>> Anyone got a clue who this mysterious "Lee" is?
> 
> Skud might know, but I don't.  Skud ran Melbourne Perl Mongers until she left the country some time in the late 90s.  I'm not sure what the meeting style was, I only remember going to a single group dinner once.
> 
> Paul and I (re)started Melbourne Perl Mongers in late 2001 if I recall correctly.  We may have had a Lee back then, but if we did I don't remember him.  Sorry.

Paul and I and Scott - if you remember :-)

Scooter

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From sam at nipl.net  Wed Nov 21 21:11:53 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:11:53 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl History: Anyone know famous Australian Perl
 hacker "Lee"? (circa 1998)
In-Reply-To: <29B7E40D-A4AA-4DAF-9E6C-CFE61AA974BA@dd.com.au>
References: <1353528984.86673.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<50AD7BCE.4000005@perltraining.com.au>
	<29B7E40D-A4AA-4DAF-9E6C-CFE61AA974BA@dd.com.au>
Message-ID: <20121122051153.GO5172@opal.nipl.net>

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 12:26:36PM +1100, Scott Penrose wrote:
> Paul and I and Scott - if you remember :-)

you're unforgettable, so it must be a malicious omission :p  j/k


From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Sun Nov 25 16:36:00 2012
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:36:00 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl History: Anyone know famous Australian Perl
 hacker "Lee"? (circa 1998)
In-Reply-To: <29B7E40D-A4AA-4DAF-9E6C-CFE61AA974BA@dd.com.au>
References: <1353528984.86673.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<50AD7BCE.4000005@perltraining.com.au>
	<29B7E40D-A4AA-4DAF-9E6C-CFE61AA974BA@dd.com.au>
Message-ID: <50B2B970.1040108@perltraining.com.au>

On 22/11/12 12:26, Scott Penrose wrote:
> On 22/11/2012, at 12:11 PM, Jacinta  wrote:
>
>> On 22/11/12 07:16, Andrew Savige wrote:
>>> Abigail remembers:
>>>
>>>   "It was the winter of 97/98 that I went to NYC and met with Lee
>>>   (an Australian guy; he came back to the US a year later to go
>>>   to YAPC, and then I've lost track of him -- perhaps he gave
>>>   birth to more famous Australian Perl community members that
>>>   appeared later on the scene)"
>>>
>>> Anyone got a clue who this mysterious "Lee" is?
>> Skud might know, but I don't.  Skud ran Melbourne Perl Mongers until she left the country some time in the late 90s.  I'm not sure what the meeting style was, I only remember going to a single group dinner once.
>>
>> Paul and I (re)started Melbourne Perl Mongers in late 2001 if I recall correctly.  We may have had a Lee back then, but if we did I don't remember him.  Sorry.
> Paul and I and Scott - if you remember :-)

Sorry, of course you're right.  Without your participation it probably 
wouldn't have been anything more than a social club.  Do you remember a Lee?

     J


From scottp at dd.com.au  Sun Nov 25 16:39:55 2012
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:39:55 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl History: Anyone know famous Australian Perl
	hacker "Lee"? (circa 1998)
In-Reply-To: <50B2B970.1040108@perltraining.com.au>
References: <1353528984.86673.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<50AD7BCE.4000005@perltraining.com.au>
	<29B7E40D-A4AA-4DAF-9E6C-CFE61AA974BA@dd.com.au>
	<50B2B970.1040108@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <5918C7A4-D1D6-4489-A11D-307FAB52FD95@dd.com.au>


On 26/11/2012, at 11:36 AM, Jacinta Richardson wrote:

> Sorry, of course you're right.  Without your participation it probably wouldn't have been anything more than a social club.  

No problem :-)

> Do you remember a Lee?

Ringing bells yes, but no sorry. Damn brain. I was talking with people over the weekend at the gliding club, all blaming their age for not remembering names. I am hoping therefore that age is only an excuse and my memory doesn't actually get any worse !

Scooter

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From bjdean at bjdean.id.au  Tue Nov 27 22:47:54 2012
From: bjdean at bjdean.id.au (Bradley Dean)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:47:54 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
Message-ID: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>

Greetings folks,

I've found myself having a conversation about why Exporter shouldn't be
included in the base of a class-defining perl module. This is my position,
such that this would be very bad code:
 
  # Bad code, don't inherit from Exporter in a class
  package My::Class;
  use base qw(Foo Bar Exporter);
  ...

I can't think of any good reason to do this - but my partner-in-discussion
has invoked "Damian Conway's methods" (Hi Damian, sorry to cause teeth
grinding if this does so) so I thought I'd see if I was missing something.

To my mind the only reason that someone would be tempted to inherit from
Exporter in a class was if you also wanted to export functions - and even
then the problems of then creating invalid inherited 'methods' from
Exporter would make this a horrible solution.

So then, thoughts?

Cheerio,

 Brad

-- 
Bradley Dean
Email: bjdean at bjdean.id.au Skype: skype at bjdean.id.au
Mobile(Aus): +61-413014395 WWW: http://bjdean.id.au/

From sam at nipl.net  Tue Nov 27 22:50:20 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:50:20 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
In-Reply-To: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
References: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
Message-ID: <20121128065020.GJ7323@opal.nipl.net>

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 05:47:54PM +1100, Bradley Dean wrote:
> I've found myself having a conversation about why Exporter shouldn't be
> included in the base of a class-defining perl module.

I'm tempted to say that Exporter shouldn't be included in the base of a
class-defining perl module, because you shouldn't be using perl at all.
Oh look, I did say it!

(from a chronic, reluctant perl programmer)

Sam

From rob at eatenbyagrue.org  Tue Nov 27 23:48:16 2012
From: rob at eatenbyagrue.org (Robert Norris)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:48:16 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
In-Reply-To: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
References: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
Message-ID: <20121128074816.GA16670@pyro.melbourne.osa>

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 05:47:54PM +1100, Bradley Dean wrote:
>   # Bad code, don't inherit from Exporter in a class
>   package My::Class;
>   use base qw(Foo Bar Exporter);
>   ...

(Well I'd argue against multiple inheritance too, but that's a separate
thing).

I'm of the opinion that your interface is either OO, or
functional/procedural/"exporty". You shouldn't mix both unless you've
got a really unusual use case (that I can't think of right now). And if
you're not sure, then you don't.

> I can't think of any good reason to do this - but my
> partner-in-discussion has invoked "Damian Conway's methods" (Hi
> Damian, sorry to cause teeth grinding if this does so) so I thought
> I'd see if I was missing something.

I hope there was an actual argument and not just "Damian said so."
Otherwise: http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Not that I don't love Damian, of course! ;)

> To my mind the only reason that someone would be tempted to inherit
> from Exporter in a class was if you also wanted to export functions -
> and even then the problems of then creating invalid inherited
> 'methods' from Exporter would make this a horrible solution.

If I really really REALLY wanted to do this then I'd use something like
Sub::Exporter, which doesn't require inheriting from something else. But
you'd need some good protections in place to make sure the exported
functions aren't called as methods (or do the right thing if they're
some sort of dual-use thing).

But really, this is smells. Just make two modules and import them
explicitly. You can't go wrong by spelling out weird stuff.

Cheers,
Rob.

From scottp at dd.com.au  Wed Nov 28 00:22:46 2012
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:22:46 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
In-Reply-To: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
References: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
Message-ID: <2BF8FB1F-413C-4612-9C0A-BB19C426F1B8@dd.com.au>

I prefer the second method of Exporter

         package YourModule;
         require Exporter;
         @ISA = qw(Exporter);
         @EXPORT_OK = qw(munge frobnicate);  # symbols to export on request

       or

         package YourModule;
         use Exporter 'import'; # gives you Exporter's import() method directly
         @EXPORT_OK = qw(munge frobnicate);  # symbols to export on request

So instead of inheriting Export, you just create an 'import' sub that is used to do the 'importing'.

Especially if you are doing mixed modules. 

Slight disagreement with the others on the list about having both, in that we often create a module like 'use CGI' which can be both an object (if you don't export anything) or import methods. 

In fact Exporter module above is the same, you can inherit it, or just import the 'import' method. 

Scott

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From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Wed Nov 28 19:05:54 2012
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:05:54 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
In-Reply-To: <2BF8FB1F-413C-4612-9C0A-BB19C426F1B8@dd.com.au>
References: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
	<2BF8FB1F-413C-4612-9C0A-BB19C426F1B8@dd.com.au>
Message-ID: <50B6D112.9020302@perltraining.com.au>

On 28/11/12 19:22, Scott Penrose wrote:
> I prefer the second method of Exporter
>
>           package YourModule;
>           require Exporter;
>           @ISA = qw(Exporter);
>           @EXPORT_OK = qw(munge frobnicate);  # symbols to export on request
>
>         or
>
>           package YourModule;
>           use Exporter 'import'; # gives you Exporter's import() method directly
>           @EXPORT_OK = qw(munge frobnicate);  # symbols to export on request
>
> So instead of inheriting Export, you just create an 'import' sub that is used to do the 'importing'.
>
> Especially if you are doing mixed modules.
>
> Slight disagreement with the others on the list about having both, in that we often create a module like 'use CGI' which can be both an object (if you don't export anything) or import methods.

Not sure who the "we" is who often create modules like CGI. Personally I 
think that CGI is in error, and that modules that should blur the lines 
between OO and imperative use are few and far between.  But otherwise 
this is a workable alternative.

All the best,

     Jacinta

From scottp at dd.com.au  Wed Nov 28 19:07:40 2012
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:07:40 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
In-Reply-To: <50B6D112.9020302@perltraining.com.au>
References: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
	<2BF8FB1F-413C-4612-9C0A-BB19C426F1B8@dd.com.au>
	<50B6D112.9020302@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <5EF1BF45-B582-406C-8D80-81C91427421E@dd.com.au>

> Not sure who the "we" is who often create modules like CGI. Personally I think that CGI is in error, and that modules that should blur the lines between OO and imperative use are few and far between.  But otherwise this is a workable alternative.

s/we/I/g - sorry

I just mean if you have a simple module like 'use JSON' it is valid to have it be both. Alternatives would be to have a base module, then one with exporter and one with OO, seems overkill.

Scott

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From mathew.blair.robertson at gmail.com  Wed Nov 28 20:58:03 2012
From: mathew.blair.robertson at gmail.com (Mathew Robertson)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:58:03 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
In-Reply-To: <5EF1BF45-B582-406C-8D80-81C91427421E@dd.com.au>
References: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
	<2BF8FB1F-413C-4612-9C0A-BB19C426F1B8@dd.com.au>
	<50B6D112.9020302@perltraining.com.au>
	<5EF1BF45-B582-406C-8D80-81C91427421E@dd.com.au>
Message-ID: 

Dont say sorry - enforcing OO *OR* imperitive is simply the developer
enforcing their personal policy.

... I like my razer blades to be sharp, and my pointers to be loose.... :)

Mathew


On 29 November 2012 14:07, Scott Penrose  wrote:

> > Not sure who the "we" is who often create modules like CGI. Personally I
> think that CGI is in error, and that modules that should blur the lines
> between OO and imperative use are few and far between.  But otherwise this
> is a workable alternative.
>
> s/we/I/g - sorry
>
> I just mean if you have a simple module like 'use JSON' it is valid to
> have it be both. Alternatives would be to have a base module, then one with
> exporter and one with OO, seems overkill.
>
> Scott
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>
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From bjdean at bjdean.id.au  Fri Nov 30 23:11:06 2012
From: bjdean at bjdean.id.au (Bradley Dean)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 18:11:06 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Invalid use of Exporter as a parent of a class
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20121128064754.GR19913@bjdean.id.au>
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Message-ID: <20121201071106.GA11508@bjdean.id.au>

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 03:58:03PM +1100, Mathew Robertson wrote:
>    On 29 November 2012 14:07, Scott Penrose <[1]scottp at dd.com.au> wrote:
> 
>    > Not sure who the "we" is who often create modules like CGI.
>    Personally I think that CGI is in error, and that modules that should
>    blur the lines between OO and imperative use are few and far between.
>    But otherwise this is a workable alternative.
> 
>      s/we/I/g - sorry
>      I just mean if you have a simple module like 'use JSON' it is valid
>      to have it be both. Alternatives would be to have a base module,
>      then one with exporter and one with OO, seems overkill.
>      Scott

So I find myself remembering about all those useful modules that do work in
both modes - so in retrospect I find myself not so against the idea in
cases where there is a clear benefit.

On the other hand - this conversation I was having was based on a class
being written as a common ancestor class (ie across all classes in a
system) which both inherited from Exporter and defined an AUTOLOAD which is
very much not ok in my book. :)

Cheerio,

 Brad

-- 
Bradley Dean
Email: bjdean at bjdean.id.au Skype: skype at bjdean.id.au
Mobile(Aus): +61-413014395 WWW: http://bjdean.id.au/