From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Tue Nov  1 22:05:17 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:05:17 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Wednesday - Perl mongers - call for presenters
In-Reply-To: <4EA669EA.30303@strategicdata.com.au>
References: <4EA669EA.30303@strategicdata.com.au>
Message-ID: <4EB0CF8D.3030506@strategicdata.com.au>

Hello everybody,

The next meeting date would be next Wednesday..
But I don't have any talks lined up for it yet.

Does anyone want to do a test-run of their OSDC talk, perhaps? Or 
something else you've done lately?

Cheers,
Toby

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Perl mongers meeting - call for presenters
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:48:58 +1100
From: Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au>
To: melbourne-pm <melbourne-pm at pm.org>

Hello Perl mongers,
The next Melbourne Perl-mongers meeting will be on the second wednesday
of the month as usual - so, November the 9th.

We need some volunteers to present things!
Is anyone prepared to do so?

thanks,
Toby
_______________________________________________
Melbourne-pm mailing list
Melbourne-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm

From melbourne-pm at mjch.net  Thu Nov  3 17:47:57 2011
From: melbourne-pm at mjch.net (Malcolm Herbert)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:47:57 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] DBIx::Class inflate/deflate vs split/combined fields
Message-ID: <20111104004755.GA501@fastmail.fm>

What's the recommended way to deal with cases where multiple fields
in a database record need to be combined to produce a value? How does
one then arrange to automatically split these back into their various
components for insert/updates?

I'm thinking here of cases where a database field has a string
representing multiple values (I didn't write this schema) in a
key=value;key=value format and other cases where I need to combine a
date (without timezone) and a string containing the zone name into a
DateTime object.

Ideally I'd like to deal with that with the DBIx::Class inflate/deflate
mechanism which should make things more portable ...

In the case of the multi-value field I can create a class to represent
this easily enough and write parse/dump routines as appropriate, but
I'm stumped on how to work with the dates, split as they are over two
database fields ...

Has anyone had to tackle this before?

Regards,
Malcolm

-- 
Malcolm Herbert                                This brain intentionally
mjch at mjch.net                                                left blank

From ickphum at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 18:02:35 2011
From: ickphum at gmail.com (Ian Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 12:02:35 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] DBIx::Class inflate/deflate vs split/combined
	fields
In-Reply-To: <20111104004755.GA501@fastmail.fm>
References: <20111104004755.GA501@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <CAGkTn=6jtAG-cN4dR1qx=t+9LPeFqtfOH_sG4xR6EqUEwCPdMA@mail.gmail.com>

Not a Perl answer, and may not be practical depending how many examples of
this you have and/or access to db schema, but I'd be tempted to put a view
in front of the table to combine those two fields.

Ian Macdonald
Armaguard

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Malcolm Herbert <melbourne-pm at mjch.net>wrote:

> What's the recommended way to deal with cases where multiple fields
> in a database record need to be combined to produce a value? How does
> one then arrange to automatically split these back into their various
> components for insert/updates?
>
> I'm thinking here of cases where a database field has a string
> representing multiple values (I didn't write this schema) in a
> key=value;key=value format and other cases where I need to combine a
> date (without timezone) and a string containing the zone name into a
> DateTime object.
>
> Ideally I'd like to deal with that with the DBIx::Class inflate/deflate
> mechanism which should make things more portable ...
>
> In the case of the multi-value field I can create a class to represent
> this easily enough and write parse/dump routines as appropriate, but
> I'm stumped on how to work with the dates, split as they are over two
> database fields ...
>
> Has anyone had to tackle this before?
>
> Regards,
> Malcolm
>
> --
> Malcolm Herbert                                This brain intentionally
> mjch at mjch.net                                                left blank
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>



-- 
Ian Macdonald
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From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Thu Nov  3 18:04:24 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 12:04:24 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] DBIx::Class inflate/deflate vs split/combined
 fields
In-Reply-To: <20111104004755.GA501@fastmail.fm>
References: <20111104004755.GA501@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <4EB33A18.6050405@strategicdata.com.au>

On 04/11/11 11:47, Malcolm Herbert wrote:
> What's the recommended way to deal with cases where multiple fields
> in a database record need to be combined to produce a value? How does
> one then arrange to automatically split these back into their various
> components for insert/updates?
>
> I'm thinking here of cases where a database field has a string
> representing multiple values (I didn't write this schema) in a
> key=value;key=value format and other cases where I need to combine a
> date (without timezone) and a string containing the zone name into a
> DateTime object.
>
> Ideally I'd like to deal with that with the DBIx::Class inflate/deflate
> mechanism which should make things more portable ...
>
> In the case of the multi-value field I can create a class to represent
> this easily enough and write parse/dump routines as appropriate, but
> I'm stumped on how to work with the dates, split as they are over two
> database fields ...
>
> Has anyone had to tackle this before?

Inflation from the database is easy.
For deflation, you can override the actual field name methods, plus 
update() and create() methods, and handle the conversion there? It's a 
bit messy, but works.

-Toby

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Fri Nov  4 00:31:53 2011
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:31:53 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Choice of topics for next MPM meeting
Message-ID: <4EB394E9.8030609@perltraining.com.au>

G'day folk,

I've volunteered to provide a talk for the next meeting, but the options of what 
I can put together in the time available are both fairly introductory.  So you 
get to pick which you like best.  Whichever seems to have the most votes by 
midday this Sunday wins.  If noone expresses any preferences, then I don't know 
that we'll have a talk at all.  Given that these are both fairly introductory 
topics, please consider bringing a friend or colleague along ;)

1. Introduction to testing
     * Why do we test?
     * What do we test?
     * White box vs black box testing
     * What do tests look like?
     * Basic tests
     * Having a plan (including done_testing)
     * TODO and SKIP blocks
     * Simple tests
         * is it true?
         * is it this value?
         * does it match this expression?
     * More interesting tests
         * does it throw an exception?
         * are these two data structures the same?
         * what is the difference between these two strings? or these two lists?
         * does running my tests generate warnings
     * Test coverage with Devel::Cover
     * Test driven development (concepts)

2. Perl::Critic
     * Why do code review?
     * Good code review
     * Automated code review (and it's limitations)
     * Using Perl::Critic
         * Profiles
         * Policies
         * Verbosity
     * no_critic
     * Promoting and demoting policies
     * writing your own policies (maybe)
     * Worked example of making code pass Perl::Critic

Respond to the list (preferably) or to me (if you really want to) regarding 
which topic you'd most like me to present on, if either.  Or don't respond if 
neither are interesting.  :)  Votes count until I board my bus on Sunday and 
start writing said talk.

     J


From ajsavige at yahoo.com.au  Fri Nov  4 14:41:34 2011
From: ajsavige at yahoo.com.au (Andrew Savige)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 14:41:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Choice of topics for next MPM meeting
In-Reply-To: <4EB394E9.8030609@perltraining.com.au>
References: <4EB394E9.8030609@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <1320442894.71716.YahooMailNeo@web125505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Though I won't be in Melbourne for the next meeting, I'm interested
in both topics and would enjoy viewing the slides to either talk.
A couple of old nodes I wrote a while ago that might be of use:
?
?http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=776607?(Why do code review?)
?http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=536384?(Some benefits of TDD)

Cheers,
/-\

________________________________
From: Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
To: Melbourne Perlmongers <melbourne-pm at pm.org>
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 6:31 PM
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Choice of topics for next MPM meeting

G'day folk,

I've volunteered to provide a talk for the next meeting, but the options of what I can put together in the time available are both fairly introductory.? So you get to pick which you like best.? Whichever seems to have the most votes by midday this Sunday wins.? If noone expresses any preferences, then I don't know that we'll have a talk at all.? Given that these are both fairly introductory topics, please consider bringing a friend or colleague along ;)

1. Introduction to testing
? ? * Why do we test?
? ? * What do we test?
? ? * White box vs black box testing
? ? * What do tests look like?
? ? * Basic tests
? ? * Having a plan (including done_testing)
? ? * TODO and SKIP blocks
? ? * Simple tests
? ? ? ? * is it true?
? ? ? ? * is it this value?
? ? ? ? * does it match this expression?
? ? * More interesting tests
? ? ? ? * does it throw an exception?
? ? ? ? * are these two data structures the same?
? ? ? ? * what is the difference between these two strings? or these two lists?
? ? ? ? * does running my tests generate warnings
? ? * Test coverage with Devel::Cover
? ? * Test driven development (concepts)

2. Perl::Critic
? ? * Why do code review?
? ? * Good code review
? ? * Automated code review (and it's limitations)
? ? * Using Perl::Critic
? ? ? ? * Profiles
? ? ? ? * Policies
? ? ? ? * Verbosity
? ? * no_critic
? ? * Promoting and demoting policies
? ? * writing your own policies (maybe)
? ? * Worked example of making code pass Perl::Critic

Respond to the list (preferably) or to me (if you really want to) regarding which topic you'd most like me to present on, if either.? Or don't respond if neither are interesting.? :)? Votes count until I board my bus on Sunday and start writing said talk.

? ? J

_______________________________________________
Melbourne-pm mailing list
Melbourne-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm

From hamish at hamishcarpenter.com  Fri Nov  4 16:50:31 2011
From: hamish at hamishcarpenter.com (Hamish Carpenter)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:50:31 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] DBIx::Class inflate/deflate vs split/combined
	fields
In-Reply-To: <4EB33A18.6050405@strategicdata.com.au>
References: <20111104004755.GA501@fastmail.fm>
	<4EB33A18.6050405@strategicdata.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAL2zwhytZ0UqDb7WGu9kMx6qveGouFLL+0aOOEM7hG_YGs+fnA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Toby Corkindale <
toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au> wrote:

>  Inflation from the database is easy.
> For deflation, you can override the actual field name methods, plus
> update() and create() methods, and handle the conversion there? It's a bit
> messy, but works.
>

It could be more setup but definitely worth it if you have many of these
fields. Try looking at other modules on cpan which do similar things eg:

DBIx::Class::InflateColumn::IP
and
DBIx::Class::TimeStamp

they appear to define a new field type with a corresponding component
plugin which takes care of the {in,de}flate actions for you.
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From tjc at wintrmute.net  Sat Nov  5 16:46:00 2011
From: tjc at wintrmute.net (Toby Wintermute)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 10:46:00 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Choice of topics for next MPM meeting
In-Reply-To: <4EB394E9.8030609@perltraining.com.au>
References: <4EB394E9.8030609@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <CABEgq97EkExzHR_Qx+KhtxhFTDzhruJyFanO=THW46DjXjpnNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jacinta,
Thanks for offering to produce a talk for the meeting.

My preference goes to the Perl::Critic talk.

Cheers,
Toby

On 4 November 2011 18:31, Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au> wrote:
> G'day folk,
>
> I've volunteered to provide a talk for the next meeting, but the options of
> what I can put together in the time available are both fairly introductory.
> ?So you get to pick which you like best. ?Whichever seems to have the most
> votes by midday this Sunday wins. ?If noone expresses any preferences, then
> I don't know that we'll have a talk at all. ?Given that these are both
> fairly introductory topics, please consider bringing a friend or colleague
> along ;)
>
> 1. Introduction to testing
> ? ?* Why do we test?
> ? ?* What do we test?
> ? ?* White box vs black box testing
> ? ?* What do tests look like?
> ? ?* Basic tests
> ? ?* Having a plan (including done_testing)
> ? ?* TODO and SKIP blocks
> ? ?* Simple tests
> ? ? ? ?* is it true?
> ? ? ? ?* is it this value?
> ? ? ? ?* does it match this expression?
> ? ?* More interesting tests
> ? ? ? ?* does it throw an exception?
> ? ? ? ?* are these two data structures the same?
> ? ? ? ?* what is the difference between these two strings? or these two
> lists?
> ? ? ? ?* does running my tests generate warnings
> ? ?* Test coverage with Devel::Cover
> ? ?* Test driven development (concepts)
>
> 2. Perl::Critic
> ? ?* Why do code review?
> ? ?* Good code review
> ? ?* Automated code review (and it's limitations)
> ? ?* Using Perl::Critic
> ? ? ? ?* Profiles
> ? ? ? ?* Policies
> ? ? ? ?* Verbosity
> ? ?* no_critic
> ? ?* Promoting and demoting policies
> ? ?* writing your own policies (maybe)
> ? ?* Worked example of making code pass Perl::Critic
>
> Respond to the list (preferably) or to me (if you really want to) regarding
> which topic you'd most like me to present on, if either. ?Or don't respond
> if neither are interesting. ?:) ?Votes count until I board my bus on Sunday
> and start writing said talk.
>
> ? ?J
>
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>



-- 
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world

From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Mon Nov  7 23:11:07 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:11:07 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Reminder - Melbourne Perlmongers are meeting
	Wednesday 9th November
Message-ID: <4EB8D60B.7080401@strategicdata.com.au>

Hello Perl Mongers,
This month, the Perl Mongers will be meeting on Wednesday 9th November.
(We meet on the second wednesday of each month)

This week, Jacinta Richardson will be presenting a talk on Perl Critic, 
a form of automated code review. Strategic Data will provide some food 
and refreshments.

I will give a quick update on this year's AI Challenge, "Ants".

We are open to any short lightning talks..

The meeting will start at 6:30pm, and be held at:
   Strategic Data
   Level 2
   51-55 Johnston street
   Fitzroy

See you tomorrow!
Toby

From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Tue Nov  8 18:11:49 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 13:11:49 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Tonight's meeting - update
Message-ID: <4EB9E165.7050100@strategicdata.com.au>

Hello Perl mongers,
I'm afraid I have bad news. Jacinta is unwell today, and will not be 
able to make our meeting tonight to present her talk on Perl Critic.

Is anyone able to come up with a talk to present at short notice for 
tonight?

Or does anyone have a suggestion for something else that we'd like to do 
as a group?

Otherwise, we're likely to cancel tonight's meeting.

Cheers
Toby

From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Tue Nov  8 20:57:59 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:57:59 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Tonight's meeting - update
In-Reply-To: <4EB9E165.7050100@strategicdata.com.au>
Message-ID: <1023286840.13283.1320814679839.JavaMail.root@dmz03>

Hi,
A further update - we've lost one phase of power to the building.

That, combined with lack of speakers for tonight, means I'm cancelling tonight's meeting.
I'm sorry, mongers - hope to catch you again soon!

-Toby

----- Original Message -----
From: "Toby Corkindale" <toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au>
To: "melbourne-pm" <melbourne-pm at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 9 November, 2011 1:11:49 PM
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Tonight's meeting - update

Hello Perl mongers,
I'm afraid I have bad news. Jacinta is unwell today, and will not be 
able to make our meeting tonight to present her talk on Perl Critic.

Is anyone able to come up with a talk to present at short notice for 
tonight?

Or does anyone have a suggestion for something else that we'd like to do 
as a group?

Otherwise, we're likely to cancel tonight's meeting.

Cheers
Toby
_______________________________________________
Melbourne-pm mailing list
Melbourne-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm

From sam at nipl.net  Tue Nov  8 23:45:00 2011
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:45:00 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Tonight's meeting - update
In-Reply-To: <1023286840.13283.1320814679839.JavaMail.root@dmz03>
References: <4EB9E165.7050100@strategicdata.com.au>
	<1023286840.13283.1320814679839.JavaMail.root@dmz03>
Message-ID: <20111109074500.GO21334@opal.ai.ki>

Toby Corkindale wrote:
> A further update - we've lost one phase of power to the building.

Seems that the meeting was not meant to be this month!

In other news, my 'inbox' now has a message number 11111,
it arrived just a couple days early for 11/11/11.

Sam

From celtic at sairyx.org  Wed Nov  9 02:47:39 2011
From: celtic at sairyx.org (Anneli Cuss)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 21:47:39 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Tonight's meeting - update
In-Reply-To: <20111109074500.GO21334@opal.ai.ki>
References: <4EB9E165.7050100@strategicdata.com.au>
	<1023286840.13283.1320814679839.JavaMail.root@dmz03>
	<20111109074500.GO21334@opal.ai.ki>
Message-ID: <CAKCNXM+DzS32L_io2vny16iy3ioCRBT=8-RjsoD-LXnN2gXkOg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> In other news, my 'inbox' now has a message number 11111,
> it arrived just a couple days early for 11/11/11.
>

Nice! I turn 0b10101 years old on 11/11/11, full of nice numbers!

- A
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From scottp at dd.com.au  Thu Nov 10 18:27:45 2011
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:27:45 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Fwd: Less than a week until OSDC 2011
References: <CANyhe7tTsS7ftsx528cZAnbRQHxBqS2jg5AXSfgcOQHLphTvug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1A6A5997-A38D-43F0-BC45-F17867218047@dd.com.au>

One week to go everyone. Still tickets available. Come up, drive, fly, camp, hotel - you have the choice :-)

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Evan Leybourn <eleybourn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Less than a week until OSDC 2011
> Date: 11 November 2011 1:21:47 PM AEDT
> To: undisclosed-recipients:;
> 
> Hello everyone, 
> 
> Please note there are important changes in this email. 
> With less than a week to go before the main conference, I hope you have sorted out your travel and accommodation arrangements and are looking forward to the conference as much as we are. Some information to help get you ready for the conference:
> 
> The Pentaho Visualisation / Mozilla Metrics workshop has been moved from Monday to Tuesday 9am, as the international presenters will not be arriving until Monday.
> Arjen Lentz will be running an Upstart workshop (details below) on Tuesday afternoon. Please respond to this email if you wish to attend to help us with catering numbers. There is an additional $20 fee for this workshop.
> Please make sure you arrive and have registered well before the conference opening at 9am on Wednesday.  Once Senator Kate Lundy's talk starts the doors will remain closed.  There's nothing worse than having frequent interruptions as people arrive throughout our VIP guest's presentation.  Tea and coffee will be available from 8am to help give you a little boost.
> Here is a map with key conference locations: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=205819915092920701577.0004b0dfa155fdbe04ff1&msa=0&ll=-35.279889,149.121401&spn=0.011123,0.022724
> If you are intending to come to one or more of the workshops or miniconfs on Monday & Tuesday, and haven't already contacted us, could you please let us know which ones you are attending so we can cater appropriately.
> If you are working on an open source product and want to show it off, we would love you to put together a small poster for our "Wall of Australian Open Source"
> Make Hack Void has invited OSDC attendees to take part in their Maker Meeting at their space in Downer on Tuesday (15/11/11). No registration is necessary, Just show up at the space around 6:15pm (for a 6:30pm start). Location and details can be found here: http://www.makehackvoid.com/community/our-space (bring $11 to share half a large pizza)
> We still have tickets available so please tweet, facebook, email, or semaphor all your friends and collegues to let them know about the conference. Otherwise if you have any questions please feel free to ask. Looking forward to seeing you at the conference.
> 
> TTFN
> Evan
> on Behalf of the OSDC Canberra Organising Committee.
> 
> ===
> Upstarta Workshop @ OSDC 2011
> 
> Held on the Tuesday afternoon (15th November) before the main OSDC 2011 conference in Canberra.
> Cost: $20
> 
> First up Arjen will introduce you to the basics of the Upstarta philosophy, so we're all on the same wavelength. Then we'll introduce a number of practical tools to assess disruptive viability of an idea (product or service), work out best marketing positioning to not be hindered by competition, and other applications of the Upstarta principles. We'll see why various known products succeeded or failed, and discuss (case studies).
> 
> In the second part of the workshop, we'll put your new skills to use on both known concepts as well as any new ideas the participants bring along. Please bring ideas in abundance, and write them down beforehand so that you can tell what it's about within 10-20 seconds. We'll specifically filter for disruptive ideas (or tweak an idea to make it disruptive) as it enables cheap market entry, pick a few, and work on them in smaller groups. We then recombine to discuss what each group has come up with!
> 
> Exchanging ideas and insights, and asking questions, even with people some might consider to be direct competitors, is more valuable than risky. If your idea is dependent on secrecy, it's probably not that viable.
> 
> Arjen will also do an Upstarta-related talk in the OSIA miniconf Monday afternoon.
> 
> Upstarta was started in 2009 by Arjen Lentz, and focuses on people who run -or are interested in starting- their business according to a set of Principles (http://upstarta.biz/principles) that make them more people friendly (both to clients and self), resilient to recessions, (potentially) better for the environment, and more.
> 
> Obviously, this is not just something for half a day. After the workshop, you can become an Upstarta member for $5/month and participate in the ongoing co-mentoring, benefiting yourself as well as helping others.
> ===
> 
> --
> Evan Leybourn
> http://theagiledirector.com/
> Agile Management / Business Intelligence
> Leadership / Consulting / Training
> 

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From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Thu Nov 10 21:03:11 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:03:11 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] pmap execution time (was I <3 map & grep too)
In-Reply-To: <CAKCNXMJA1gk7DWoHfMbkdC_9db+TWn-7pQXRQOmcNTZ6uoC-5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EA8E721.5020706@strategicdata.com.au>
	<20111027061225.GV11592@opal.ai.ki>
	<4EA8F893.8050509@strategicdata.com.au>
	<CAKCNXMJA1gk7DWoHfMbkdC_9db+TWn-7pQXRQOmcNTZ6uoC-5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBCAC8F.2000207@strategicdata.com.au>

On 27/10/11 20:26, Anneli Cuss wrote:
>> And indeed, I picked up this style of programming from Scala, which does do
>> those operations in parallel - in both senses.
>> It can start running the later operations before the early ones have
>> finished - and it can use multiple CPUs to process each stage in parallel.
>
> I misunderstood the point you were making, but I might as well share
> what I've got, as it could serve as a springboard for others. It
> shouldn't be too hard to feed results into subsequent operations early
> (though you might need to ugly up the syntax or use something like
> iterators to make it happen).
>
> I'm sure there's already this on the CPAN (or ten of them), but maybe
> it'll be as fun for others to read as it was for me to write. A simple
> parallel map:
>
> use threads;
> use threads::shared;
>
> our $PARALLEL = 4;
>
> sub pmap (&@) {
>      my $fun = shift;
>      my @args :shared = @_;
>
>      my $each = @args / $PARALLEL;
>      my @threads;
>
>      for ($i = 0; $i<  $PARALLEL; ++$i) {
> 	my $from = $each * $i;
> 	my $to = ($i<  $PARALLEL - 1) ? ($each * ($i + 1) - 1) : $#args;
> 	print STDERR "from $from to $to\n";
>
> 	my ($thr) = threads->create(sub {
> 	    map&$fun, @args[$from..$to]
> 	});
> 	push @threads, $thr;
>      }
>
>      print STDERR "joining\n";
>      my @results;
>      push @results, $_->join for (@threads);
>      @results;
> }
>
> Adjust $PARALLEL to the number of cores your CPU has.
>
> SERVING SUGGESTION:
>
> sub dumb_fib {
>      my $n = shift;
>      $n<= 2 ? 1 : dumb_fib($n-1) + dumb_fib($n-2)
> }
>
> my @a = (39) x 8;
> my @r = pmap { dumb_fib $_ } @a;
> print join ', ', @r;
>
> With $PARALLEL = 8 on a suitable server:
>
> $ time perl pmap.pl
> from 0 to 0
> from 1 to 1
> from 2 to 2
> from 3 to 3
> from 4 to 4
> from 5 to 5
> from 6 to 6
> from 7 to 7
> joining
> 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986
> real	1m20.436s
> user	10m36.575s
> sys	0m0.188s
> $
>
> If I replace 'pmap' with 'map':
>
> $ time perl map.pl
> 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986, 63245986
> real	5m56.631s
> user	5m56.570s
> sys	0m0.006s
> $
>
> So, half the time spent in the CPU (not managing context switches),
> but 5 times longer on the wall!


So, I thought I'd give this a shot in Scala..
The code is:
object pmaptest extends App {
   // This is like my @foo = (39) x 8;
   // Surely there's a better way..
   val foo = (1 to 8).toList.par.map(_ => 39)

   foo map dumb_fib foreach println
   // or you can write:
   // foo.map(dumb_fib).foreach(println)

   def dumb_fib(x: Int) :Int = x match {
     case 1 => 1
     case 2 => 1
     case _ => dumb_fib(x-1) + dumb_fib(x-2)
   }
}

The performance with the parallel maps are:
real	0m0.795s
user	0m2.316s
sys	0m0.012s


If I force the single-threaded version, it is:
real	0m2.222s
user	0m2.220s
sys	0m0.012s


The thing that is embarrassing is that on the same hardware, this is how 
long it takes to run it through Perl:
parallel:
real	1m14.370s
user	4m47.610s
sys	0m0.392s

single thread:
real	4m46.886s
user	4m45.982s
sys	0m0.040s



I expected Scala to be quicker, but that's ridiculous.
That time includes booting the JVM too.
If I benchmark just the actual internal execution time, it comes out at 
around 500 to 600 ms!

Ah, poor old Perl - it just isn't that good when it comes to pure maths.
The only area it won out in was memory usage - about 6M, vs 28M for Scala.

From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Thu Nov 10 21:34:34 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:34:34 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] pmap execution time (was I <3 map & grep too)
In-Reply-To: <4EBCAC8F.2000207@strategicdata.com.au>
References: <4EA8E721.5020706@strategicdata.com.au>
	<20111027061225.GV11592@opal.ai.ki>
	<4EA8F893.8050509@strategicdata.com.au>
	<CAKCNXMJA1gk7DWoHfMbkdC_9db+TWn-7pQXRQOmcNTZ6uoC-5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBCAC8F.2000207@strategicdata.com.au>
Message-ID: <4EBCB3EA.2080007@strategicdata.com.au>

On 11/11/11 16:03, Toby Corkindale wrote:
> The code is:
> val foo = (1 to 8).toList.par.map(_ => 39)
> foo map dumb_fib foreach println
> // or you can write:
> // foo.map(dumb_fib).foreach(println)

Someone asked about the alternative ways to write that line, so I 
thought I'd explain here in case others were curious.

Scala, like Perl, has some shortcuts in the language.
The following lines are all equivalent:

The long way:
   foo.map(x => dumb_fib(x)).foreach(y => println(y))

Shortened by using _ (it's like $_ in perl):
   foo.map(dumb_fib(_)).foreach(println(_))

If you only have one parameter, you don't need to even use _, it'll use 
it by default:
   foo.map(dumb_fib).foreach(println)

And if you only have one parameter to a function, you can skip the 
parentheses and it'll just take the next symbol as the parameter. You 
can also leave the dots out too:
   foo map dumb_fib foreach println

This last form looks a bit more confusing to me than the previous one. 
However if you're building DSLs, you can make stuff read a bit more like 
natural language.

-Toby

From javier at candeira.com  Mon Nov 21 08:21:19 2011
From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:21:19 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] XPath 2 support?
Message-ID: <CAKADsbet2XWyDWMmj=5vB+2nWvSJmgNROwmezmofbSdU=4Kjbw@mail.gmail.com>

I am a user of Xacobeo, a XPath visualiser (written in Perl) that uses
libxml2 to show the result of queries.

libxml2 only supports XPath 1. Is there a recommended XPath 2 library?
Googling turns up some results, but as I am using this tool to learn,
I can't judge. I'd rather go with a recomendation.

Thanks!

J

From alfiej at opera.com  Wed Nov 23 00:39:23 2011
From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:39:23 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
	14th of December
Message-ID: <1322037563.29320.140661002581257@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hello Perl Mongers,

This month the Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the
14th of December.

Opera Software Australia have just moved into our new office and we
would like to host. Opera Software Australia will be providing pizza and
drinks.

All we need now are talks for the night. Has anyone got any long, short
or even lightning talks to give?

The meeting will start around 6:30pm at:

  Opera Software Australia
  Level 1, 91-97 William Street
  Melbourne CBD

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at opera.com

From alfiej at opera.com  Wed Nov 23 00:42:06 2011
From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:42:06 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
 14th of December
In-Reply-To: <1322037563.29320.140661002581257@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1322037563.29320.140661002581257@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1322037726.30327.140661002582541@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:39 PM, "Alfie John" <alfiej at opera.com>
wrote:

> This month the Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the
> 14th of December.

Next month not this month :)

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at opera.com


From cosimo.streppone at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 02:38:03 2011
From: cosimo.streppone at gmail.com (Cosimo Streppone)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:38:03 +0100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
 14th of December
In-Reply-To: <1322037726.30327.140661002582541@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1322037563.29320.140661002581257@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1322037726.30327.140661002582541@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSDYmf8uS0B-nahAbUkR-Ot60wGxsEMQZwUJp5zQPvoSLAFg@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/23 Alfie John <alfiej at opera.com>:

> On Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:39 PM, "Alfie John" <alfiej at opera.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This month the Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the
>> 14th of December.

Cool! Yay for Opera Software Australia!!
Opera HQ hosted the Oslo Perl Mongers meeting in October.

I hope to meet you guys again SomeDay (tm).

-- 
Cosimo

From alfiej at opera.com  Sun Nov 27 12:46:29 2011
From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:46:29 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
 14th of December
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSDYmf8uS0B-nahAbUkR-Ot60wGxsEMQZwUJp5zQPvoSLAFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1322037563.29320.140661002581257@webmail.messagingengine.com><1322037726.30327.140661002582541@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CAPZSDYmf8uS0B-nahAbUkR-Ot60wGxsEMQZwUJp5zQPvoSLAFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1322426789.10197.140661004240105@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Sunday, November 27, 2011 11:38 AM, "Cosimo Streppone"
<cosimo.streppone at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This month the Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the
> >> 14th of December.
> 
> Cool! Yay for Opera Software Australia!!
> Opera HQ hosted the Oslo Perl Mongers meeting in October.

We still don't have any talks for the meeting. If you're thinking about
giving a talk please speak up :) Also if anyone is interested in a
subject and wants to learn more, mention it on the list... it might
encourage somebody knowledgeable in the area to give a talk.
 
> I hope to meet you guys again SomeDay (tm).

There's a desk waiting for you when you get back :)

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at opera.com

From myfwhite at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 14:12:09 2011
From: myfwhite at gmail.com (Myf White)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:12:09 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
 14th of December
In-Reply-To: <1322426789.10197.140661004240105@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1322037563.29320.140661002581257@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1322037726.30327.140661002582541@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CAPZSDYmf8uS0B-nahAbUkR-Ot60wGxsEMQZwUJp5zQPvoSLAFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322426789.10197.140661004240105@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7036WFhs1Hd9m69=9nmhW55Hbx=OAFGNtqYsQO1pVE9WtChw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm enjoying using Mojolicious. I could do a talk on that, if there's any
interest.

Kind Regards,
Myf White
*
Email:* myfwhite at gmail.com


On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Alfie John <alfiej at opera.com> wrote:

>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 11:38 AM, "Cosimo Streppone"
> <cosimo.streppone at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> This month the Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the
> > >> 14th of December.
> >
> > Cool! Yay for Opera Software Australia!!
> > Opera HQ hosted the Oslo Perl Mongers meeting in October.
>
> We still don't have any talks for the meeting. If you're thinking about
> giving a talk please speak up :) Also if anyone is interested in a
> subject and wants to learn more, mention it on the list... it might
> encourage somebody knowledgeable in the area to give a talk.
>
> > I hope to meet you guys again SomeDay (tm).
>
> There's a desk waiting for you when you get back :)
>
> Alfie
>
> --
>  Alfie John
>  alfiej at opera.com
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>
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From alfiej at opera.com  Sun Nov 27 15:53:49 2011
From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:53:49 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
 14th of December
In-Reply-To: <CAP7036WFhs1Hd9m69=9nmhW55Hbx=OAFGNtqYsQO1pVE9WtChw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1322037563.29320.140661002581257@webmail.messagingengine.com><1322037726.30327.140661002582541@webmail.messagingengine.com><CAPZSDYmf8uS0B-nahAbUkR-Ot60wGxsEMQZwUJp5zQPvoSLAFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322426789.10197.140661004240105@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CAP7036WFhs1Hd9m69=9nmhW55Hbx=OAFGNtqYsQO1pVE9WtChw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1322438029.18720.140661004294609@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hey Myf,

On Monday, November 28, 2011 9:12 AM, "Myf White"
<myfwhite at gmail.com> wrote:

  I'm enjoying using Mojolicious. I could do a talk on that, if
  there's any interest.


I'm a bit of a hipster when it comes to web frameworks so a talk
on Mojolicious would be great.

Alfie

--
Alfie John
[1]alfiej at opera.com

References

1. mailto:alfiej at opera.com
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From m.sharpe at developersatlarge.com  Sun Nov 27 19:21:58 2011
From: m.sharpe at developersatlarge.com (Matt Sharpe)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:21:58 -0800
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
 14th of December
Message-ID: <-4235513647491912833@unknownmsgid>

That sounds awesome Myf,

I'd be really interested to see how other people are using mojo and
mojolicious. Unfortunately I won't be back in Australia until February,
would it be possible to get the talk recorded? That would be much
appreciated.

I'm also curious if you tried Dancer or Leyland or any of the other
web-service type frameworks?

Matt
------------------------------
From: Alfie John
Sent: 28/11/2011 10:53 AM
To: Myf White
Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday
the 14th of December

 Hey Myf,

  On Monday, November 28, 2011 9:12 AM, "Myf White" <myfwhite at gmail.com>
wrote:

I'm enjoying using Mojolicious. I could do a talk on that, if there's any
interest.


 I'm a bit of a hipster when it comes to web frameworks so a talk on
Mojolicious would be great.

 Alfie

 --
 Alfie John
 alfiej at opera.com
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From alfiej at opera.com  Mon Nov 28 18:01:14 2011
From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:01:14 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for Wednesday the
 14th of December
In-Reply-To: <-4235513647491912833@unknownmsgid>
References: <-4235513647491912833@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <1322532074.7814.140661004834765@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hey Matt,

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:21 PM, "Matt Sharpe"
<m.sharpe at developersatlarge.com> wrote:

That sounds awesome Myf,
I'd be really interested to see how other people are using mojo
and mojolicious. Unfortunately I won't be back in Australia until
February, would it be possible to get the talk recorded? That
would be much appreciated.


We don't have any recoding equipment so unless somebody is able
to bring proper gear the talks are going to have to be recoded
using my iphone (that is of course if speakers give their consent
to be recorded).

Alfie

--
Alfie John
[1]alfiej at opera.com

References

1. mailto:alfiej at opera.com
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From tconnors at astro.swin.edu.au  Tue Nov 29 04:29:14 2011
From: tconnors at astro.swin.edu.au (Tim Connors)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:29:14 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] WTF were they thinking?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1111292327460.25964@dirac.rather.puzzling.org>


http://blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2010/09/qw-in-list-context-deprecated.html

Does anyone know whether this was completely arbitrary, or whether there
was good logic behind this change?

-- 
Tim Connors

From andrew at sericyb.com.au  Tue Nov 29 04:54:31 2011
From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:54:31 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] WTF were they thinking?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1111292327460.25964@dirac.rather.puzzling.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1111292327460.25964@dirac.rather.puzzling.org>
Message-ID: <4ED4D607.2000206@sericyb.com.au>

On 29/11/11 23:29, Tim Connors wrote:
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2010/09/qw-in-list-context-deprecated.html
> 
> Does anyone know whether this was completely arbitrary, or whether there
> was good logic behind this change?

Explained quite well in the comments, I thought?

Andrew
-- 
Andrew Pam <andrew at sericyb.com.au>
Serious Cybernetics

From david.warring at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 10:58:12 2011
From: david.warring at gmail.com (David Warring)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:58:12 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] WTF were they thinking?
In-Reply-To: <4ED4D607.2000206@sericyb.com.au>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1111292327460.25964@dirac.rather.puzzling.org>
	<4ED4D607.2000206@sericyb.com.au>
Message-ID: <CABE6GaYp=Mxr3MxeuSGEinzDK6QvZdLaoZ4Ks=Mx5mxVWNyYMw@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a reference to the change in the 5.14.0 perl delta:
http://search.cpan.org/~jesse/perl-5.14.0/pod/perldelta.pod#Use_of_qw(...)_as_parentheses


On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Andrew Pam <andrew at sericyb.com.au> wrote:

> On 29/11/11 23:29, Tim Connors wrote:
> >
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2010/09/qw-in-list-context-deprecated.html
> >
> > Does anyone know whether this was completely arbitrary, or whether there
> > was good logic behind this change?
>
> Explained quite well in the comments, I thought?
>
> Andrew
> --
> Andrew Pam <andrew at sericyb.com.au>
> Serious Cybernetics
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>
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From mathew.blair.robertson at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 16:58:39 2011
From: mathew.blair.robertson at gmail.com (Mathew Robertson)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:58:39 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] WTF were they thinking?
In-Reply-To: <4ED4D607.2000206@sericyb.com.au>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1111292327460.25964@dirac.rather.puzzling.org>
	<4ED4D607.2000206@sericyb.com.au>
Message-ID: <CABG5UsVUHABtuKpv1sWg4vjq0F1L1WTge7e2uO-wpshoyWfE_w@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 November 2011 23:54, Andrew Pam <andrew at sericyb.com.au> wrote:

> On 29/11/11 23:29, Tim Connors wrote:
> >
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2010/09/qw-in-list-context-deprecated.html
> >
> > Does anyone know whether this was completely arbitrary, or whether there
> > was good logic behind this change?
>
> Explained quite well in the comments, I thought?
>
>
Not really...   'for' is a statement, not a function.  If that were the
case 'if ...' and 'print ...' and so on, should also require parens... '

Alternatively... 'for' takes a list as its third (or second) argument, qw//
provides that.  Parens is only syntactic sugar for generating a list. For
example (arguably) this should also work, but the parsing would be almost
impossible:

for keys %hash { print $_ }



My $0.02 -> the core developers should be making Perl faster (and fixing
bugs), as highlighted by the recent comparison on this mailing list.  I
know that in the past, I have moved code to a different language for a
speed increase, once the business rules had stabilized.

Cheers,
Mathew Robertson
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From alfiej at opera.com  Wed Nov 30 18:53:35 2011
From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 13:53:35 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers date change for December?
Message-ID: <1322708015.30362.140661005845365@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi everyone,

If you were thinking of coming along to the December meeting which was on the 14th (Wednesday), would you object to moving it to either the Tuesday or the Thursday (13th or 15th)?

Also is there anyone else that might want to give a talk?

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at opera.com

From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au  Wed Nov 30 18:56:41 2011
From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 13:56:41 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Thanks Alfie!
Message-ID: <4ED6ECE9.20708@strategicdata.com.au>

I've been away a lot (conferences, holidays) for the past two weeks - 
thanks to Alfie for ensuring the Perlmonger meetings are still on track!

-Toby

From myfwhite at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 21:39:27 2011
From: myfwhite at gmail.com (Myf White)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:39:27 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers date change for December?
In-Reply-To: <1322708015.30362.140661005845365@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1322708015.30362.140661005845365@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7036US0d5YevSREiYNjub8fWnmtgOi3+sJbHK16nV6ORnMig@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I can't do the Tues, but the Thursday works (and it gives me an extra day
to procrastinate preparing a talk!)


Kind Regards,
Myf White*
*

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Alfie John <alfiej at opera.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> If you were thinking of coming along to the December meeting which was on
> the 14th (Wednesday), would you object to moving it to either the Tuesday
> or the Thursday (13th or 15th)?
>
> Also is there anyone else that might want to give a talk?
>
> Alfie
>
> --
>  Alfie John
>  alfiej at opera.com
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>
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From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Wed Nov 30 22:05:32 2011
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 17:05:32 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers date change for December?
In-Reply-To: <1322708015.30362.140661005845365@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1322708015.30362.140661005845365@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4ED7192C.8030302@perltraining.com.au>

On 01/12/11 13:53, Alfie John wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> If you were thinking of coming along to the December meeting which was on the 14th (Wednesday), would you object to moving it to either the Tuesday or the Thursday (13th or 15th)?

Thursday would be fabulous for me if SD are up to the change of night.

     J