[Melbourne-pm] Melbourne-pm Digest, Vol 50, Issue 11
greg.george at orica.com
greg.george at orica.com
Thu Jun 12 22:34:07 PDT 2008
Hi Jacinta,
Using 5.10 on XP development machine and 5.5.8 on AIX 5.3 (Development and
production machines)
Still having a couple of issues with 5.10 wrt Active States PerlApp but
have not had time to investigate reasons (issue is I think with some XS
dll's)
Regards,
Greg George
Phone: +613-9091-2492
3/100 Victoria Prd, Melbourne
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Today's Topics:
1. Who's using Perl 5.10? (Jacinta Richardson)
2. Re: Who's using Perl 5.10? (Scott Penrose)
3. Re: [Sydney-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10? (Paul Fenwick)
4. Re: Who's using Perl 5.10? (Matt Koscica)
5. Re: Who's using Perl 5.10? (Craig Sanders)
6. Re: Who's using Perl 5.10? (Scott Penrose)
7. Re: Who's using Perl 5.10? (Robert Norris)
8. Re: Who's using Perl 5.10? (Daniel Pittman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:29:34 +1000
From: Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: Melbourne Perlmongers <melbourne-pm at pm.org>
Message-ID: <4851E99E.4010000 at perltraining.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
G'day!
There are lots of good reasons to use Perl 5.10
(
http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?why_you_should_upgrade_to_perl_5_10
), but who's managed to get it on to their personal machine? development
machines? testing? production?
If you're not using 5.10 what versions are you using?
This is an informal poll, but I'd love everyone who can to spend a couple
of
seconds responding.
FWIW I use: Perl 5.8.8 on my personal box, and production box. I'm not
sure
what I use on my laptop - probably 5.8.something - haven't looked
recently.
All the best,
J
--
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson |
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia |
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 |
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au |
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au |
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:40:45 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Penrose <scottp at dd.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
Cc: Melbourne Perlmongers <melbourne-pm at pm.org>
Message-ID: <13029869.10541213328433844.JavaMail.root at zimbra>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Personal Machines - 5.8.8
Personal production machines - 5.8.8
3rd party production machines - 5.6 in some cases, but a lot of 5.8.4
I would not run 5.10 though. Two reasons: Not available on my production
machines; too hard to manually install on my laptop.
I have gone from building my own machines (e.g. Gentoo and similar) to
being completely lazy on that front. The problem is that if you have two
versions on a system, one from the package system and another from another
install it causes major confusion on the perl module front. On one machine
things worked if I typed "perl blah.pl" but if I used "./blah.pl" it did
not (turns out that my default path was not the same as /usr/bin/perl).
This is a problem, I would like to see perl progress, but the reality of
systems I use is that manual installs on Debian or Mac OS X of Perl
generally break things. This is not just Perl, I had the same problem the
other day with Python for using the new version of Trac, had to give up,
and with PHP4 and PHP5 on the same machine. Tricky.
Scott
----- "Jacinta Richardson" <jarich at perltraining.com.au> wrote:
> G'day!
>
> There are lots of good reasons to use Perl 5.10
> (
http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?why_you_should_upgrade_to_perl_5_10
> ), but who's managed to get it on to their personal machine?
> development
> machines? testing? production?
>
> If you're not using 5.10 what versions are you using?
>
> This is an informal poll, but I'd love everyone who can to spend a
> couple of
> seconds responding.
>
> FWIW I use: Perl 5.8.8 on my personal box, and production box. I'm
> not sure
> what I use on my laptop - probably 5.8.something - haven't looked
> recently.
>
> All the best,
>
> J
>
> --
> ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson |
> `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia |
> (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 |
> _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au |
> (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au |
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:15:56 +1000
From: Paul Fenwick <pjf at perltraining.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] [Sydney-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: Sydney PM <sydney-pm at pm.org>, Melbourne Perl Mongers
<melbourne-pm at pm.org>, canberra-pm at pm.org
Message-ID: <4851F47C.4050309 at perltraining.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
G'day (?:Syd|Melb|Canberra).pm,
Cross-posting, since Jacinta asked in a few different places.
Jacinta Richardson wrote (paraphrased):
> Who uses Perl 5.10?
On Win32 native, I do. It's dead easy to install, just grab Strawberry or
ActiveState Perl and double-click. It's also pretty important because my
latest project[1] currently only runs under Perl 5.10.
On Win32 Cygwin, I have 5.8.8 installed natively (it's what cygwin comes
with), and 5.11/blead installed in my dev area.
Unfortunately all my Unix boxes are still on 5.8, and all for pretty much
the same reason as we've seen on some of the perl mongers lists already.
Most of the unix distributions still come with 5.8, and doing my own
packaging for 5.10 represents a huge amount of work.
The notable exception to this is RedHat, I believe the latest Fedora Core
comes with 5.10 as standard. I note that lenny (RedHat testing) is using
5.10. So I imagine that we'll see big 5.10 rollouts once Debian declare
lenny to be stable.
Adam's note on Sydney.pm showing the huge number of 5.10 installs vs 5.8
is
probably quite indicative of Win32 leading the charge. Because there
isn't
a central package repository for Win32, it's easy to just grab the latest
and greatest right now, rather than waiting for the packagers to catch up.
Cheerio,
Paul
[1] autodie, see http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?autodie for documentation
and download, and http://pjf.id.au/blog/?position=540 for the video.
--
Paul Fenwick <pjf at perltraining.com.au> | http://perltraining.com.au/
Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001
Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:34:40 +1000
From: "Matt Koscica" <matt.koscica at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: "Jacinta Richardson" <jarich at perltraining.com.au>, "Melbourne
Perlmongers" <melbourne-pm at pm.org>, sydney-pm at pm.org
Message-ID:
<b289452a0806122134v79ab757s939f0d34c967129e at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
5.10 installed to $HOME on all of our production boxes (Debian Etch);
the exceptions being a couple of legacy Mandrake boxes running 5.8.7
(no thanks to the nightmarish Math::Pari which only seems to have been
made 5.10 friendly in the last ~month).
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Jacinta Richardson
<jarich at perltraining.com.au> wrote:
> G'day!
>
> There are lots of good reasons to use Perl 5.10
> (
http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?why_you_should_upgrade_to_perl_5_10
> ), but who's managed to get it on to their personal machine? development
> machines? testing? production?
>
> If you're not using 5.10 what versions are you using?
>
> This is an informal poll, but I'd love everyone who can to spend a
couple of
> seconds responding.
>
> FWIW I use: Perl 5.8.8 on my personal box, and production box. I'm not
sure
> what I use on my laptop - probably 5.8.something - haven't looked
recently.
>
> All the best,
>
> J
>
> --
> ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson |
> `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia |
> (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 |
> _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au |
> (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au |
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:38:44 +1000
From: Craig Sanders <cas at taz.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: Melbourne Perlmongers <melbourne-pm at pm.org>
Message-ID: <20080613043843.GA3979 at taz.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 01:29:34PM +1000, Jacinta Richardson wrote:
> There are lots of good reasons to use Perl 5.10
> (
http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?why_you_should_upgrade_to_perl_5_10
> ), but who's managed to get it on to their personal machine? development
> machines? testing? production?
$ dpkg -l perl
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
|
Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err:
uppercase=bad)
||/ Name Version Description
+++-==============-==============-============================================
ii perl 5.10.0-10 Larry Wall's Practical Extraction and
Report
running it on most machines for the last few weeks, personal,
development, & production.
haven't noticed any incompatibilities or problems. is running fine.
there were a few hassles during the transition (i.e. when not all perl
module packages had been rebuilt for perl 5.10) but that was weeks
ago...and dealing with it was mostly a matter of Holding important
module packages and delaying the upgrade until the module packages had
been rebuilt (and even then it was mostly just the handful of modules
that weren't pure perl that needed recompiling)
craig
ps: to Scott - that's what apt-get is for. no need to have a system
package of old perl and the new version in /usr/local. just install the
latest packages. if you're running debian etch rather than lenny or
sid, then backports.org might have 5.10 for etch. if not, download the
debianised perl source for 5.10 and build your own backport.
--
craig sanders <cas at taz.net.au>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:48:18 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Penrose <scottp at dd.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: Craig Sanders <cas at taz.net.au>
Cc: Melbourne Perlmongers <melbourne-pm at pm.org>
Message-ID: <1014533.10691213332498988.JavaMail.root at zimbra>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> ps: to Scott - that's what apt-get is for. no need to have a system
> package of old perl and the new version in /usr/local. just install
> the
> latest packages. if you're running debian etch rather than lenny or
> sid, then backports.org might have 5.10 for etch. if not, download
> the
> debianised perl source for 5.10 and build your own backport.
You nailed the problem. If etch - tick. If older versions (which we are
stuck on still in most places) then backports are difficult because of all
the C compiled modules that have to be recompiled, including proprietary
ones.
There is two ways we run servers:
* One off - no problem, we can control the updates. This is most of the
little servers and systems I run as mostly they only need 1 to 4 machines.
* Bulk - this is quite common and on % it is about 90% of the servers and
they can't just be updated.
Scooter
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:18:20 +1000
From: Robert Norris <rob at cataclysm.cx>
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: melbourne-pm at pm.org
Message-ID: <20080613051820.GA2600 at plastic.home>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
5.8.7 on production boxes, only because 5.8.8 had nothing that was going
to help and I try not to upgrade production servers for the hell of it.
Personal machines are all Debian sid, which has been 5.10.0 for a little
while. Being able to to use -E and say in oneliners is a joy. Apart from
that I'm not really using the new features except to tinker because I
need to target 5.8 until 5.10 is more widespread.
I'll be building some new machines in ~3 months from now. They'll be
5.10.1 if its available, otherwise 5.8.8. Even though 5.10.0 seems to be
a hell of a lot more stable/bugfree than 5.6.0 and 5.8.0 were, it is
taking a little while for modules to catch up.
Cheers,
Rob.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:26:51 +1000
From: Daniel Pittman <daniel at rimspace.net>
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Who's using Perl 5.10?
To: Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
Cc: Melbourne Perlmongers <melbourne-pm at pm.org>
Message-ID: <87hcbxsy5g.fsf at rimspace.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au> writes:
> There are lots of good reasons to use Perl 5.10
> (
http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?why_you_should_upgrade_to_perl_5_10
> ), but who's managed to get it on to their personal machine? development
> machines? testing? production?
>
> If you're not using 5.10 what versions are you using?
] apt-cache show perl | grep Version
Version: 5.8.8-12
I expect to be looking at Perl 5.10 soon, assuming it moves into
Debian/Ubuntu in the near future. If they don't package it I am
probably too lazy to work out what it breaks myself.
Putting it into production or anything like that will take longer, to
ensure that 5.10 doesn't break more things than it fixes. :)
Regards,
Daniel
------------------------------
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