From jarich at perltraining.com.au Wed Aug 6 19:03:55 2008 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:03:55 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: NEXT WEEK: 13th August Message-ID: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> G'day folk, For those who aren't joining me in sunny Adelaide for the SAGE-AU conference, there's still a fun and exciting Perl Mongers meeting to go to. I'm afraid I haven't done anything to organise a talk, but perhaps you'd like to volunteer to give one yourself? 6:30pm Level 1 172 Flinders St (just opposite Federation Square) Map: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6sa7l8 There'll definitely be some interesting material for the September meeting so long as we're not off teaching somewhere else again... Anyone got anything they'd like to *hear* (yet alone give) at an upcoming meeting? All the best, J -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx Wed Aug 6 20:24:22 2008 From: melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx (Stephen Edmonds) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:24:22 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: NEXT WEEK: 13th August In-Reply-To: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> References: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <489A6AE6.4010409@popcorn.cx> Does anyone want to hear about handling foreign characters? I have been looking into it for work and should be able to have something coherent for next Wednesday. Thanks, Stephen (Hamish has suggested "Terrorist characters" as the title) Jacinta Richardson wrote: > G'day folk, > > For those who aren't joining me in sunny Adelaide for the SAGE-AU conference, > there's still a fun and exciting Perl Mongers meeting to go to. I'm afraid I > haven't done anything to organise a talk, but perhaps you'd like to volunteer to > give one yourself? > > 6:30pm > > Level 1 > 172 Flinders St > (just opposite Federation Square) > Map: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6sa7l8 > > There'll definitely be some interesting material for the September meeting so > long as we're not off teaching somewhere else again... > > Anyone got anything they'd like to *hear* (yet alone give) at an upcoming meeting? > > All the best, > > J > -- _ _ _ Stephen Edmonds _/ \_ / \_/ \ Melbourne, Australia <_ " _> / \ / O \ / " \ stephen at popcorn.cx / ___ \ | O | http://popcorn.cx/ \_____/ \___/ From ts at meme.com.au Wed Aug 6 21:10:00 2008 From: ts at meme.com.au (Tony Smith) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:10:00 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: NEXT WEEK: 13th August In-Reply-To: <489A6AE6.4010409@popcorn.cx> References: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> <489A6AE6.4010409@popcorn.cx> Message-ID: Yes please. On 07/08/2008, at 1:24 PM, Stephen Edmonds wrote: > Does anyone want to hear about handling foreign characters? I have > been looking into it for work and should be able to have something > coherent for next Wednesday. Tony Smith 0405 499 718 TransForum Developer http://www.transforum.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hamish at hamishcarpenter.com Thu Aug 7 01:36:53 2008 From: hamish at hamishcarpenter.com (Hamish Carpenter) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:36:53 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: NEXT WEEK: 13th August In-Reply-To: <489A6AE6.4010409@popcorn.cx> References: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> <489A6AE6.4010409@popcorn.cx> Message-ID: <489AB425.1040607@hamishcarpenter.com> I believe you left the " ;) " off the end of my title suggestion Stephen Edmonds wrote: > Does anyone want to hear about handling foreign characters? I have been > looking into it for work and should be able to have something coherent > for next Wednesday. > > Thanks, > > Stephen > > (Hamish has suggested "Terrorist characters" as the title) From melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx Tue Aug 12 17:55:59 2008 From: melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx (Stephen Edmonds) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:55:59 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: TONIGHT: 13th August In-Reply-To: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> References: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <48A2311F.90603@popcorn.cx> All, My talk on dealing with non-ASCII characters in Perl is in a presentable state. So if you want to hear about that you should come along tonight. Thanks, Stephen Jacinta Richardson wrote: > G'day folk, > > For those who aren't joining me in sunny Adelaide for the SAGE-AU conference, > there's still a fun and exciting Perl Mongers meeting to go to. I'm afraid I > haven't done anything to organise a talk, but perhaps you'd like to volunteer to > give one yourself? > > 6:30pm > > Level 1 > 172 Flinders St > (just opposite Federation Square) > Map: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6sa7l8 > > There'll definitely be some interesting material for the September meeting so > long as we're not off teaching somewhere else again... > > Anyone got anything they'd like to *hear* (yet alone give) at an upcoming meeting? > > All the best, > > J > From tjc at wintrmute.net Wed Aug 13 18:47:22 2008 From: tjc at wintrmute.net (Toby Corkindale) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:47:22 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne perljobmongering Message-ID: <20080814014722.GC25267@roseberry> Hi, There were a few discussions last night over the state of Perl jobs in Melbourne. I heard some people saying they had trouble finding good people, and others saying they had trouble finding good places to work. I've had a couple of friends thinking of moving to Melbourne ask about work here too. http://jobs.perl.org/ is the global Perl jobs site, but doesn't have any Melbourne jobs listed at all. Where should we direct people to connect people with jobs? Should we create a Melbourne specific jobs mailing list or website or something? Cheers, Toby -- Turning and turning in the widening gyre/The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold/Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world (gpg --recv-key B1CCF88E) From ickphum at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 19:23:40 2008 From: ickphum at gmail.com (Ian Macdonald) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:23:40 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne perljobmongering In-Reply-To: <20080814014722.GC25267@roseberry> References: <20080814014722.GC25267@roseberry> Message-ID: <38d47d520808131923l13c9e5b3i479b7001311aece6@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Um, not to descend into naked self-promotion but if any employer looking for an experienced Perl developer can contact me via email; current contract expires in 3 weeks, 1 days and 5 hours as of...now! Well, I suppose that was self-promotion but hopefully not too naked (just wait til the interview!). Ian Macdonald ickphum at gmail.com On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > Hi, > There were a few discussions last night over the state of Perl jobs in > Melbourne. I heard some people saying they had trouble finding good people, > and > others saying they had trouble finding good places to work. I've had a > couple > of friends thinking of moving to Melbourne ask about work here too. > > http://jobs.perl.org/ is the global Perl jobs site, but doesn't have any > Melbourne jobs listed at all. > > Where should we direct people to connect people with jobs? > > Should we create a Melbourne specific jobs mailing list or website or > something? > > Cheers, > Toby > > -- > Turning and turning in the widening gyre/The falcon cannot hear the > falconer; > Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold/Mere anarchy is loosed upon the > world > (gpg --recv-key B1CCF88E) > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > -- Ian Macdonald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pjf at perltraining.com.au Sat Aug 16 03:46:07 2008 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:16:07 +0930 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: TONIGHT: 13th August In-Reply-To: <48A2311F.90603@popcorn.cx> References: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> <48A2311F.90603@popcorn.cx> Message-ID: <48A6AFEF.2060503@perltraining.com.au> G'day Stephen, Stephen Edmonds wrote: > My talk on dealing with non-ASCII characters in Perl is in a presentable > state. So if you want to hear about that you should come along tonight. Thank-you so very much for this, I hope the meeting went extremely well. Unfortunately I was unable to attend, or even post to the mailing list, as I was both interstate and sick-as-a-dog on Wednesday with the flu. Both conditions have since been resolved. All the best, and thanks again, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx Sun Aug 17 04:40:29 2008 From: melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx (Stephen Edmonds) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:40:29 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: TONIGHT: 13th August In-Reply-To: <48A2311F.90603@popcorn.cx> References: <489A580B.2040207@perltraining.com.au> <48A2311F.90603@popcorn.cx> Message-ID: <48A80E2D.7040706@popcorn.cx> All, My slides are now available at http://popcorn.cx/talks/beyond-ascii/ Although you might be better off using these references: * Perl documentation: * Encode - character encodings http://perldoc.perl.org/Encode.html * perlunitut - Perl Unicode Tutorial http://perldoc.perl.org/perlunitut.html * perlunifaq - Perl Unicode FAQ http://perldoc.perl.org/perlunifaq.html * From Juerd Waalboer: * Perl Unicode Tutorial (YAPC::Europe 2007) http://juerd.nl/files/slides/2007yapceu/unicodetutorial.html * Perl Unicode Advice http://juerd.nl/site.plp/perluniadvice * Wikipedia: * Unicode http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode * Character encoding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_encoding I have added all of this to the meeting history page (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Melbourne_Perl_Mongers/Meeting_History_2008#Wednesday.2C_August_13th_2008) and also added descriptions for other meetings from this year. Thanks, Stephen Stephen Edmonds wrote: > All, > > My talk on dealing with non-ASCII characters in Perl is in a presentable > state. So if you want to hear about that you should come along tonight. > > Thanks, > > Stephen > > Jacinta Richardson wrote: >> G'day folk, >> >> For those who aren't joining me in sunny Adelaide for the SAGE-AU >> conference, >> there's still a fun and exciting Perl Mongers meeting to go to. I'm >> afraid I >> haven't done anything to organise a talk, but perhaps you'd like to >> volunteer to >> give one yourself? >> >> 6:30pm >> >> Level 1 >> 172 Flinders St >> (just opposite Federation Square) >> Map: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6sa7l8 >> >> There'll definitely be some interesting material for the September >> meeting so >> long as we're not off teaching somewhere else again... >> >> Anyone got anything they'd like to *hear* (yet alone give) at an >> upcoming meeting? >> >> All the best, >> >> J >> > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- _ _ _ Stephen Edmonds _/ \_ / \_/ \ Melbourne, Australia <_ " _> / \ / O \ / " \ stephen at popcorn.cx / ___ \ | O | http://popcorn.cx/ \_____/ \___/ From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Tue Aug 19 00:54:39 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:54:39 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] beginner at Perl trying to learn it Message-ID: Hello This is my first post on this Perl list. I am a 33 years young postgraduate student of computer graphics: Indesign, photoshop etc. I have never attempted any computer programming before this year. With an eye to webdesign/web programming I have spent this year trying to learn some of the easier [?] programming languages. I don't know much about computers and it's more luck than management if I put something in the correct directory. This year I played with python 2.5 a little bit. Then I found that I have in my graphics course access to ALL of the VTC [Virtual Training Company] online tutorials including ones in computer programming in lots of languages. So I installed apache 2.2, php, ruby, java IDE and perl. Yesterday I installed perl [latest stable version] fully. So far, working through the VTC tutorial on Perl, I have succeeded in testing my helloworld.pl program on the windows command line. But I have failed to make hello world appear in my Firefox browser. I have tried to follow the instructions in this VTC tutorial but I only get "that url is not found on this server" in my window. Apache is definitely working. Anyone could probably attempt the same tutorials on the VTC site; the early ones for perl are open to guest log ins without payment. Interestingly, when I tried to get the php going in the browser last week, I got the formatting appearing in the browser. I am told on another forum that I might have to change the apache config files to get PHP working. That's beyond me. That or, I am told, I could download php, apache and perl again from the XAMPP site. Now, if Idid that would I ruin my PC or Apache? Isn't it bad to download something twice? What would happen to the Apache services that are being run now? If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on any of this I would be pleased to hear them. But bear in mind that I am not a computer person. I try to be one and succeed as often as I fail. Yours sincerely John , Melbourne, Vic. From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Tue Aug 19 01:07:50 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:07:50 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] FW: beginner at Perl trying to learn it Message-ID: He is no relation to me! Nobody else in my family has the remotest interest in computer programming or indeed computers at all! Here is my post again in HTML. [I am used to putting it in plain text in case other people cannot handle the HTML.] I am prepared to put in amount of work to learn Perl including reading books etc. John -----Original Message----- From: John Thornton [mailto:jdthornton at ozemail.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2008 5:55 PM To: 'melbourne-pm at pm.org' Subject: beginner at Perl trying to learn it Hello This is my first post on this Perl list. I am a 33 years young postgraduate student of computer graphics: Indesign, photoshop etc. I have never attempted any computer programming before this year. With an eye to webdesign/web programming I have spent this year trying to learn some of the easier [?] programming languages. I don't know much about computers and it's more luck than management if I put something in the correct directory. This year I played with python 2.5 a little bit. Then I found that I have in my graphics course access to ALL of the VTC [Virtual Training Company] online tutorials including ones in computer programming in lots of languages. So I installed apache 2.2, php, ruby, java IDE and perl. Yesterday I installed perl [latest stable version] fully. So far, working through the VTC tutorial on Perl, I have succeeded in testing my helloworld.pl program on the windows command line. But I have failed to make hello world appear in my Firefox browser. I have tried to follow the instructions in this VTC tutorial but I only get "that url is not found on this server" in my window. Apache is definitely working. Anyone could probably attempt the same tutorials on the VTC site; the early ones for perl are open to guest log ins without payment. Interestingly, when I tried to get the php going in the browser last week, I got the formatting appearing in the browser. I am told on another forum that I might have to change the apache config files to get PHP working. That's beyond me. That or, I am told, I could download php, apache and perl again from the XAMPP site. Now, if Idid that would I ruin my PC or Apache? Isn't it bad to download something twice? What would happen to the Apache services that are being run now? If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on any of this I would be pleased to hear them. But bear in mind that I am not a computer person. I try to be one and succeed as often as I fail. Yours sincerely John , Melbourne, Vic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjc at wintrmute.net Tue Aug 19 01:19:43 2008 From: tjc at wintrmute.net (Toby Corkindale) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:19:43 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] FW: beginner at Perl trying to learn it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080819081943.GA17737@roseberry> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 06:07:50PM +1000, John Thornton wrote: > He is no relation to me! Nobody else in my family has the remotest interest > in computer programming or indeed computers at all! I'm sorry, you've confused me with that. Who are you talking about? > Here is my post again in HTML. [I am used to putting it in plain text in > case other people cannot handle the HTML.] I think this list will vastly prefer the plain-text version, so there's no need to re-post the HTML version - but thanks for thinking of us. > I am prepared to put in amount of work to learn Perl including reading books > etc. The "Learning Perl" book, ISBN 978-0596520106, is the classic text for such. http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Perl-5th-Tom-Phoenix/dp/0596520107/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219133821&sr=8-1 Also, locally to Melbourne http://perltraining.com.au/ run courses on Perl. -Toby > -----Original Message----- > From: John Thornton [mailto:jdthornton at ozemail.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2008 5:55 PM > To: 'melbourne-pm at pm.org' > Subject: beginner at Perl trying to learn it > > > > > > Hello > > This is my first post on this Perl list. I am a 33 years young > postgraduate student of computer graphics: Indesign, photoshop etc. > > > > I have never attempted any computer programming before this > year. With an eye to webdesign/web programming I have spent this year trying > to learn some of the easier [?] programming languages. I don't know much > about computers and it's more luck than management if I put something in the > correct directory. > > > > This year I played with python 2.5 a little bit. Then I found > that I have in my graphics course access to ALL of the VTC [Virtual Training > Company] online tutorials including ones in computer programming in lots of > languages. So I installed apache 2.2, php, ruby, java IDE and perl. > Yesterday I installed perl [latest stable version] fully. > > > > So far, working through the VTC tutorial on Perl, I have > succeeded in testing my helloworld.pl program on the windows command line. > But I have failed to make hello world appear in my Firefox browser. I have > tried to follow the instructions in this VTC tutorial but I only get "that > url is not found on this server" in my window. Apache is definitely working. > Anyone could probably attempt the same tutorials on the VTC site; the early > ones for perl are open to guest log ins without payment. Interestingly, when > I tried to get the php going in the browser last week, I got the formatting > appearing in the browser. I am told on another forum that I might have to > change the apache config files to get PHP working. That's beyond me. That > or, I am told, I could download php, apache and perl again from the XAMPP > site. Now, if Idid that would I ruin my PC or Apache? Isn't it bad to > download something twice? What would happen to the Apache services that are > being run now? > > > > If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on any of this I > would be pleased to hear them. But bear in mind that I am not a computer > person. I try to be one and succeed as often as I fail. > > > > Yours sincerely > > John , Melbourne, Vic. > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- Turning and turning in the widening gyre/The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold/Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world (gpg --recv-key B1CCF88E) From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Tue Aug 19 01:34:34 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:34:34 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] FW: beginner at Perl trying to learn it In-Reply-To: <20080819081943.GA17737@roseberry> References: <20080819081943.GA17737@roseberry> Message-ID: <68907154D5C648388A62DF9849F18A8F@home2> Another poster just said that there is a Jon Thornton in this Perl group - no relation!! John -----Original Message----- From: Toby Corkindale [mailto:tjc at wintrmute.net] Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2008 6:20 PM To: John Thornton Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] FW: beginner at Perl trying to learn it On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 06:07:50PM +1000, John Thornton wrote: > He is no relation to me! Nobody else in my family has the remotest interest > in computer programming or indeed computers at all! I'm sorry, you've confused me with that. Who are you talking about? > Here is my post again in HTML. [I am used to putting it in plain text in > case other people cannot handle the HTML.] I think this list will vastly prefer the plain-text version, so there's no need to re-post the HTML version - but thanks for thinking of us. > I am prepared to put in amount of work to learn Perl including reading books > etc. The "Learning Perl" book, ISBN 978-0596520106, is the classic text for such. http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Perl-5th-Tom-Phoenix/dp/0596520107/ref=pd_bbs _sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219133821&sr=8-1 Also, locally to Melbourne http://perltraining.com.au/ run courses on Perl. -Toby > -----Original Message----- > From: John Thornton [mailto:jdthornton at ozemail.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2008 5:55 PM > To: 'melbourne-pm at pm.org' > Subject: beginner at Perl trying to learn it > > > > > > Hello > > This is my first post on this Perl list. I am a 33 years young > postgraduate student of computer graphics: Indesign, photoshop etc. > > > > I have never attempted any computer programming before this > year. With an eye to webdesign/web programming I have spent this year trying > to learn some of the easier [?] programming languages. I don't know much > about computers and it's more luck than management if I put something in the > correct directory. > > > > This year I played with python 2.5 a little bit. Then I found > that I have in my graphics course access to ALL of the VTC [Virtual Training > Company] online tutorials including ones in computer programming in lots of > languages. So I installed apache 2.2, php, ruby, java IDE and perl. > Yesterday I installed perl [latest stable version] fully. > > > > So far, working through the VTC tutorial on Perl, I have > succeeded in testing my helloworld.pl program on the windows command line. > But I have failed to make hello world appear in my Firefox browser. I have > tried to follow the instructions in this VTC tutorial but I only get "that > url is not found on this server" in my window. Apache is definitely working. > Anyone could probably attempt the same tutorials on the VTC site; the early > ones for perl are open to guest log ins without payment. Interestingly, when > I tried to get the php going in the browser last week, I got the formatting > appearing in the browser. I am told on another forum that I might have to > change the apache config files to get PHP working. That's beyond me. That > or, I am told, I could download php, apache and perl again from the XAMPP > site. Now, if Idid that would I ruin my PC or Apache? Isn't it bad to > download something twice? What would happen to the Apache services that are > being run now? > > > > If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on any of this I > would be pleased to hear them. But bear in mind that I am not a computer > person. I try to be one and succeed as often as I fail. > > > > Yours sincerely > > John , Melbourne, Vic. > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- Turning and turning in the widening gyre/The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold/Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world (gpg --recv-key B1CCF88E) From benhare at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 02:33:48 2008 From: benhare at gmail.com (Ben Hare) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:33:48 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] FW: beginner at Perl trying to learn it In-Reply-To: <68907154D5C648388A62DF9849F18A8F@home2> References: <20080819081943.GA17737@roseberry> <68907154D5C648388A62DF9849F18A8F@home2> Message-ID: <822765280808190233p3ec81d8au96f031eb236c638@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, there's many issues in your post to cover, sounds like your major issue is actually your apache config. read up on www.apache.org. also check programming perl, most Perl programmers start with this ( or Learning Perl ). but really i just wanted to add: don't give up on the transition you are trying to make. i studied multimedia but as the web changed i initially taught myself Perl and have worked as a Perl programmer for years since, many more years than i ever did as a web designer/multimedia artist. the two skills are in fact an important combination, particularly in front end web development. cheers, Ben. On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:34 PM, John Thornton wrote: > Another poster just said that there is a Jon Thornton in this Perl group - > no relation!! > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Toby Corkindale [mailto:tjc at wintrmute.net] > Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2008 6:20 PM > To: John Thornton > Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] FW: beginner at Perl trying to learn it > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 06:07:50PM +1000, John Thornton wrote: >> He is no relation to me! Nobody else in my family has the remotest > interest >> in computer programming or indeed computers at all! > > I'm sorry, you've confused me with that. Who are you talking about? > >> Here is my post again in HTML. [I am used to putting it in plain text in >> case other people cannot handle the HTML.] > > I think this list will vastly prefer the plain-text version, so there's no > need > to re-post the HTML version - but thanks for thinking of us. > >> I am prepared to put in amount of work to learn Perl including reading > books >> etc. > > The "Learning Perl" book, ISBN 978-0596520106, is the classic text for such. > http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Perl-5th-Tom-Phoenix/dp/0596520107/ref=pd_bbs > _sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219133821&sr=8-1 > > Also, locally to Melbourne http://perltraining.com.au/ run courses on Perl. > > -Toby > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Thornton [mailto:jdthornton at ozemail.com.au] >> Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2008 5:55 PM >> To: 'melbourne-pm at pm.org' >> Subject: beginner at Perl trying to learn it >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello >> >> This is my first post on this Perl list. I am a 33 years young >> postgraduate student of computer graphics: Indesign, photoshop etc. >> >> >> >> I have never attempted any computer programming before this >> year. With an eye to webdesign/web programming I have spent this year > trying >> to learn some of the easier [?] programming languages. I don't know much >> about computers and it's more luck than management if I put something in > the >> correct directory. >> >> >> >> This year I played with python 2.5 a little bit. Then I found >> that I have in my graphics course access to ALL of the VTC [Virtual > Training >> Company] online tutorials including ones in computer programming in lots > of >> languages. So I installed apache 2.2, php, ruby, java IDE and perl. >> Yesterday I installed perl [latest stable version] fully. >> >> >> >> So far, working through the VTC tutorial on Perl, I have >> succeeded in testing my helloworld.pl program on the windows command line. >> But I have failed to make hello world appear in my Firefox browser. I have >> tried to follow the instructions in this VTC tutorial but I only get "that >> url is not found on this server" in my window. Apache is definitely > working. >> Anyone could probably attempt the same tutorials on the VTC site; the > early >> ones for perl are open to guest log ins without payment. Interestingly, > when >> I tried to get the php going in the browser last week, I got the > formatting >> appearing in the browser. I am told on another forum that I might have to >> change the apache config files to get PHP working. That's beyond me. That >> or, I am told, I could download php, apache and perl again from the XAMPP >> site. Now, if Idid that would I ruin my PC or Apache? Isn't it bad to >> download something twice? What would happen to the Apache services that > are >> being run now? >> >> >> >> If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on any of this I >> would be pleased to hear them. But bear in mind that I am not a computer >> person. I try to be one and succeed as often as I fail. >> >> >> >> Yours sincerely >> >> John , Melbourne, Vic. >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Melbourne-pm mailing list >> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > > -- > Turning and turning in the widening gyre/The falcon cannot hear the > falconer; > Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold/Mere anarchy is loosed upon the > world > (gpg --recv-key B1CCF88E) > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > From pjf at perltraining.com.au Tue Aug 19 04:55:52 2008 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:55:52 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] FW: beginner at Perl trying to learn it In-Reply-To: <20080819081943.GA17737@roseberry> References: <20080819081943.GA17737@roseberry> Message-ID: <48AAB4C8.5090604@perltraining.com.au> G'day John, Toby Corkindale wrote: > Also, locally to Melbourne http://perltraining.com.au/ run courses on Perl. We also have our course-notes on-line, for those people who enjoy book-learning: http://perltraining.com.au/notes.html The "Programming Perl" manual is the one to get if you're just learning. You may also find he Learning Perl pages from the wikis useful: http://perl.net.au/wiki/Learning_Perl http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?recommended_online_tutorials Cheerio, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From peter at machell.net Tue Aug 19 05:30:05 2008 From: peter at machell.net (Peter Machell) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:30:05 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] beginner at Perl trying to learn it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19/08/2008, at 5:54 PM, John Thornton wrote: > If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on any of this I > would be pleased to hear them. But bear in mind that I am not a > computer > person. I try to be one and succeed as often as I fail. Hi John. I don't grok what your desired outcome is. Perl is an extremely powerful language and is really the best "Swiss Army Knife" of software available. Having said that like you I am not a programmer. Whenever I go back to Perl I have to spend quite a bit of learning time, because I don't work with it much - maybe once a month. So I now find myself doing most programming and scripting work in Python. Its focus is on there being one "correct" way to do anything. This is very different and not as powerful as Perl, but much easier for us non programmers to work with occasionally. So by all means learn and work with Perl if your objective is to become a programmer professionally, but if you just want a tool to do the odd quick scripting or programming job, I'd recommend Python. regards, Peter. From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Aug 19 05:54:43 2008 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:54:43 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] beginner at Perl trying to learn it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F297DE7-FF3E-4048-A7A4-4855B7EFC705@dd.com.au> This is slightly off topic, but I thought it would be good to say and see what people think... I often have to program Javascript. But more recently I have had to do a huge amount in Javascript. The similarities of Javascript to perl are uncanny, right down to the way classes are built. (don't dig too deep into this - I am not trying to compare, but they are similar). But what has driven me nuts is the 101 ways to do anything. And that each method has advantages and disadvantages. And that each person on the net describes their way as perfect. And that I spend a lot of time looking at the source code of the library because the documentation is missing. ... Anyway... it struck me reading this thread that my frustrations with Javascript in the last few months must be how people enter into Perl. The reason I say that, is because once something hits me in Javascript it makes such sense it actually fits in my brain... just like perl. I must say though - Javascript SUCKS on the documentation side and library front. CPAN rocks. I am working quite a bit with the ExtJS framework, and it is a fantastic framework, can't pick on it at all from code perspective. But imagine doing this for perl. * Installing a module requires you finding code in a Forum thread, cut and pasting it into a file somewhere. Reading the text of the forum to find any other dependencies, finding them in forum threads and getting their text cut and paste into a file somewhere. * Looking through documentation of a module and trying to find out how to use it, e.g. what are the important methods, and seeing every single base method inherited or otherwise. Having to scroll down to the instantiating method to read how to get started, which usually appears about 3/4 the way through the doc, after the 100s of configurable options. (when complaining about this I was told just to hide the inherited methods, but then you don't see which methods are important vs not - which comes back to one thing I think is best - manual documentation, writing what the user needs to know - not the other two methods: everything or nothing). Ext is just like that. Well Javascript in general really. Ext documentation reminds me of JavaDoc. And modules remind me of Visual Basic programming in the early 90s. So apart from my little complaint above, I have had a brief introduction to how it must be for people who come to Perl where it hasn't yet "clicked" in the brain. But once it does... you won't get it out :-) (evil laugh here... or just thehehe). Scott From jarich at perltraining.com.au Tue Aug 19 06:00:26 2008 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:00:26 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] beginner at Perl trying to learn it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48AAC3EA.2000006@perltraining.com.au> John Thornton wrote: > So far, working through the VTC tutorial on Perl, I have > succeeded in testing my helloworld.pl program on the windows command line. > But I have failed to make hello world appear in my Firefox browser. I have > tried to follow the instructions in this VTC tutorial but I only get "that > url is not found on this server" in my window. Can you cut'n'paste the exact error message you're getting and post it to us? > or, I am told, I could download php, apache and perl again from the XAMPP > site. Now, if Idid that would I ruin my PC or Apache? Isn't it bad to > download something twice? What would happen to the Apache services that are > being run now? Downloading something twice won't ruin your PC, but it could result in confusion as to which version of the code you were invoking when you tried to run it. All the best, J -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Tue Aug 19 06:59:57 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:59:57 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message Message-ID: When I try to put the perl script hello world! into the browser I get this: Not Found The requested URL /cgi-bin/hello.cgi was not found on this server. [the top of the creen has the 404 NotFound - Mozilla message] Now, this might need some explanation: although hello.pl had worked for testing my script on the windows start and run command line, according to the VTC tutorial I had to put in a .cgi suffix as above to get it to work in a browser, and add some other code to my script. I did all of this as the tutorial asked, at least as far as I know. John From guy at alchemy.com.au Tue Aug 19 14:46:25 2008 From: guy at alchemy.com.au (Guy Morton) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:46:25 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E660559-C675-4350-9B8D-241BFB23E93F@alchemy.com.au> Apache is telling you what the problem is - it can't find the file. You need to find out from the apache config file where its document root is and make sure the file is in the path you are asking for. Sometimes Apache comes pre-configured with a special path where it expects you to put CGI scripts. If that's the case it's probably easier to use their settings to start with. Look for a ScriptAlias directive. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/mod/mod_alias.html#scriptalias You will also need to ensure that ExecCGI is on for the path that your file is in. If that is not set but your file is in the right place you will see a Forbidden error page, so that's not the cause of your current problem. I had a very quick Google - this page might help you http://www.thesitewizard.com/archive/addcgitoapache.shtml Guy On 19/08/2008, at 11:59 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > When I try to put the perl script hello world! into the > browser I get > this: > > Not Found > > The requested URL /cgi-bin/hello.cgi was not found on this server. > > [the top of the creen has the 404 NotFound - Mozilla message] > > > Now, this might need some explanation: although hello.pl had > worked for > testing my script on the windows start and run command line, > according to > the VTC tutorial I had to put in a .cgi suffix as above to get it to > work in > a browser, and add some other code to my script. I did all of this > as the > tutorial asked, at least as far as I know. > > John > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From toby.corkindale at rea-group.com Tue Aug 19 18:24:21 2008 From: toby.corkindale at rea-group.com (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:24:21 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48AB7245.4050606@rea-group.com> John Thornton wrote: > When I try to put the perl script hello world! into the browser I get > this: > > Not Found > > The requested URL /cgi-bin/hello.cgi was not found on this server. > > [the top of the creen has the 404 NotFound - Mozilla message] > > > Now, this might need some explanation: although hello.pl had worked for > testing my script on the windows start and run command line, according to > the VTC tutorial I had to put in a .cgi suffix as above to get it to work in > a browser, and add some other code to my script. I did all of this as the > tutorial asked, at least as far as I know. Hmm.. Could you send your Apache configuration and your hello.cgi files to the list? The apache configuration will probably be called something like httpd.conf, but I'm not sure exactly where it would be installed on Windows. ta, Toby -- Toby Corkindale Software developer w: www.rea-group.com REA Group refers to realestate.com.au Ltd (ASX:REA) Warning - This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us immediately on (61 3) 9897 1121 or by reply email to the sender. You must destroy the e-mail immediately and not use, copy, distribute or disclose the contents. From lsharpe at pacificwireless.com.au Tue Aug 19 21:15:23 2008 From: lsharpe at pacificwireless.com.au (Leigh Sharpe) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:15:23 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message Message-ID: <96CF49BD8B56384395D698BA99007FA32FA371@exchange.pacwire.local> Where is your hello.cgi file located? If you're on Windows, it probably should be in c:\program files\apache group\apache2\cgi-bin -----Original Message----- From: melbourne-pm-bounces+lsharpe=pacificwireless.com.au at pm.org [mailto:melbourne-pm-bounces+lsharpe=pacificwireless.com.au at pm.org] On Behalf Of John Thornton Sent: Wednesday, 20 August 2008 12:00 AM To: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message When I try to put the perl script hello world! into the browser I get this: Not Found The requested URL /cgi-bin/hello.cgi was not found on this server. [the top of the creen has the 404 NotFound - Mozilla message] Now, this might need some explanation: although hello.pl had worked for testing my script on the windows start and run command line, according to the VTC tutorial I had to put in a .cgi suffix as above to get it to work in a browser, and add some other code to my script. I did all of this as the tutorial asked, at least as far as I know. John _______________________________________________ Melbourne-pm mailing list Melbourne-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Wed Aug 20 19:18:12 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:18:12 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and XAMPP Message-ID: <792D6009720547F589054B300BBCF756@home2> OK, I took a step back from learning Perl or php and fixed up my Apache. Last night there was a power blackout and the symbol of my Apache changed in the system tray to "running none of 1 services". So, I reasoned that if my services are still running with apache in that state, then it wouldn't be missed. So I uninstalled Apache and php, leaving perl on my system [couldn't see how to uninstall it] and Msoft SQL Server 2005 [would have to uninstall 6 things which is messy]. Then I installed the full XAMPP and let it preconfigure and set the new services. Now, I have something going because if for the exercise I type in what got an error message in the browser yesterday I get the 404 not found message plus this: localhost [links to my xammp version] 08/21/08 12:11:08 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 Now, I am a computer moron so I all I understand from that is that apache must be running in some form and that I have new versions of it and the other stuff. I am unsure where to go from here to try my perl or php scripts in the browser again. It appears that I only need to set the path/directory right in the browser. Or do I need to put in that cgi bit again? In the xampp control panel it gives apache, mysql and filezilla [whatever that is] as running. There is also a mercury [email program??] that is not running. Maybe I am still as stuck as ever. Must be doing something right I suppose. John From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Wed Aug 20 23:24:16 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:24:16 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome Message-ID: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> Though what is interesting is that if I go to the xammp explore and get into the cgi box there are two files: pearltest.cgi and cgi.cgi. If I put into the browser: http://localhost/cgi-bin/perltest.cgi then I get: GCI with MiniPerl CGI with MiniPerl is ready ... and if I put the cgi.cgi in instead of pearltest.cgi and the rest the same I get: OK So I don't know. I have sort of got what I wanted in terms of getting the browser to use a cgi file to get a desired [I assume] outcome. It's just that when I make my own .pl files and put all the shebang stuff etc in the VTC tute, and then change it to a .cgi title and move into this same cgi file as used above, that I still a 404 error. John From jarich at perltraining.com.au Wed Aug 20 23:28:49 2008 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:28:49 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> Message-ID: <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> John Thornton wrote: > Though what is interesting is that if I go to the xammp explore and > get into the cgi box there are two files: pearltest.cgi and cgi.cgi. > > If I put into the browser: http://localhost/cgi-bin/perltest.cgi > > then I get: > > GCI with MiniPerl > CGI with MiniPerl is ready ... > > and if I put the cgi.cgi in instead of pearltest.cgi and the rest the > same I get: > > OK > > So I don't know. I have sort of got what I wanted in terms of getting the > browser to use a cgi file to get a desired [I assume] outcome. It's just > that when I make my own .pl files and put all the shebang stuff etc in the > VTC tute, and then change it to a .cgi title and move into this same cgi > file as used above, that I still a 404 error. Create the following file and call it hello.cgi ----------------- #!/usr/bin/perl -w use CGI; print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; ------------------ put it in the same directory as perltest.cgi and cgi.cgi, so that if you "go to xammp explore and get into the cgi box" there are now three files: perltest.cgi, cgi.cgi and hello.cgi. Then go to: http://localhost/cgi-bin/hello.cgi What happens? Jacinta -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Thu Aug 21 00:49:21 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:49:21 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> Hmm.. I did as you suggested and got: Object not found! The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again. If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 404 localhost 08/21/08 17:44:37 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 *************** So I don't know. It seems to me that there is one difference between the files that have succeeded as CGI browser formats in the explore CGI box: the successful ones are listed as CGI files whereas the ones I tried such as hello.cgi are still listed as text documents. Thanks anyway Any more suggestions and I will try them out. John -----Original Message----- From: Jacinta Richardson [mailto:jarich at perltraining.com.au] Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 4:29 PM To: John Thornton Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome John Thornton wrote: > Though what is interesting is that if I go to the xammp explore and > get into the cgi box there are two files: pearltest.cgi and cgi.cgi. > > If I put into the browser: http://localhost/cgi-bin/perltest.cgi > > then I get: > > GCI with MiniPerl > CGI with MiniPerl is ready ... > > and if I put the cgi.cgi in instead of pearltest.cgi and the rest the > same I get: > > OK > > So I don't know. I have sort of got what I wanted in terms of getting the > browser to use a cgi file to get a desired [I assume] outcome. It's just > that when I make my own .pl files and put all the shebang stuff etc in the > VTC tute, and then change it to a .cgi title and move into this same cgi > file as used above, that I still a 404 error. Create the following file and call it hello.cgi ----------------- #!/usr/bin/perl -w use CGI; print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; ------------------ put it in the same directory as perltest.cgi and cgi.cgi, so that if you "go to xammp explore and get into the cgi box" there are now three files: perltest.cgi, cgi.cgi and hello.cgi. Then go to: http://localhost/cgi-bin/hello.cgi What happens? Jacinta -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From ickphum at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 00:54:28 2008 From: ickphum at gmail.com (Ian Macdonald) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:54:28 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> Message-ID: <38d47d520808210054i368248a3ta0ab565b48b84647@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:49 PM, John Thornton wrote: > Hmm.. > > I did as you suggested and got: > > Object not found! > > The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL > manually please check your spelling and try again. > > If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. > Error 404 > localhost > 08/21/08 17:44:37 > Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color > PHP/5.2.6 > > *************** > So I don't know. It seems to me that there is one difference between the > files that have succeeded as CGI browser formats in the explore CGI box: > > the successful ones are listed as CGI files whereas the ones I tried such > as > hello.cgi are still listed as text documents. > > Thanks anyway > Any more suggestions and I will try them out. > > John > That sounds interesting; what editor are you using to create the files? It sounds like it might be Notepad or something else that likes to silently add .txt to all file names. In the explorer window, go to the Tools menu and choose Folder Options. Now select the View tab and find "Hide extensions for known file types" and make sure this is not ticked. Click Apply, Ok, refresh the window and see if some of the files now display as name.cgi.txt. If so, remove the ".txt" part and try again. -- Ian Macdonald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Thu Aug 21 01:09:18 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:09:18 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: <38d47d520808210054i368248a3ta0ab565b48b84647@mail.gmail.com> References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> <38d47d520808210054i368248a3ta0ab565b48b84647@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <515EB4F7FC6D44A9B88F9F18752C1D99@home2> Yes, I was using notepad as my editor to make my files! Notepad is in general a good editor to use. For instance it worked in making .pl files that tested correctly for hello world in my command line. But I will follow your tip as notepad may have its limitations here. Hard to think of what else to use. I do have PSpad installed if I wanted to use something a bit fancier. John _____ From: Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 5:54 PM To: John Thornton Cc: Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:49 PM, John Thornton wrote: Hmm.. I did as you suggested and got: Object not found! The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again. If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 404 localhost 08/21/08 17:44:37 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 *************** So I don't know. It seems to me that there is one difference between the files that have succeeded as CGI browser formats in the explore CGI box: the successful ones are listed as CGI files whereas the ones I tried such as hello.cgi are still listed as text documents. Thanks anyway Any more suggestions and I will try them out. John That sounds interesting; what editor are you using to create the files? It sounds like it might be Notepad or something else that likes to silently add .txt to all file names. In the explorer window, go to the Tools menu and choose Folder Options. Now select the View tab and find "Hide extensions for known file types" and make sure this is not ticked. Click Apply, Ok, refresh the window and see if some of the files now display as name.cgi.txt. If so, remove the ".txt" part and try again. -- Ian Macdonald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ickphum at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 01:16:14 2008 From: ickphum at gmail.com (Ian Macdonald) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:16:14 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: <515EB4F7FC6D44A9B88F9F18752C1D99@home2> References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> <38d47d520808210054i368248a3ta0ab565b48b84647@mail.gmail.com> <515EB4F7FC6D44A9B88F9F18752C1D99@home2> Message-ID: <38d47d520808210116s3d6bad0fl9721af754f56fa3d@mail.gmail.com> Without delving into the murky waters of editor preferences, an immediate win would be to use notepad++ instead, which is available here http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/download.php. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM, John Thornton wrote: > Yes, I was using notepad as my editor to make my files! > > > > Notepad is in general a good editor to use. For instance it worked in > making .pl files that tested correctly for hello world in my command line. > > But I will follow your tip as notepad may have its limitations here. > > > > Hard to think of what else to use. I do have PSpad installed if I wanted to > use something a bit fancier. > > > > John > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, 21 August 2008 5:54 PM > *To:* John Thornton > *Cc:* Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org > *Subject:* Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:49 PM, John Thornton > wrote: > > Hmm.. > > I did as you suggested and got: > > Object not found! > > The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL > manually please check your spelling and try again. > > If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. > Error 404 > localhost > 08/21/08 17:44:37 > Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color > PHP/5.2.6 > > *************** > So I don't know. It seems to me that there is one difference between the > files that have succeeded as CGI browser formats in the explore CGI box: > > the successful ones are listed as CGI files whereas the ones I tried such > as > hello.cgi are still listed as text documents. > > Thanks anyway > Any more suggestions and I will try them out. > > John > > > That sounds interesting; what editor are you using to create the files? It > sounds like it might be Notepad or something else that likes to silently add > .txt to all file names. > > In the explorer window, go to the Tools menu and choose Folder Options. Now > select the View tab and find "Hide extensions for known file types" and make > sure this is not ticked. Click Apply, Ok, refresh the window and see if some > of the files now display as name.cgi.txt. If so, remove the ".txt" part and > try again. > > > > -- > Ian Macdonald > -- Ian Macdonald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Thu Aug 21 02:32:31 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:32:31 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: <38d47d520808210116s3d6bad0fl9721af754f56fa3d@mail.gmail.com> References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> <38d47d520808210054i368248a3ta0ab565b48b84647@mail.gmail.com> <515EB4F7FC6D44A9B88F9F18752C1D99@home2> <38d47d520808210116s3d6bad0fl9721af754f56fa3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Right, I feel that I might not be far off success. I used notepad++ and managed to get the file recognised as a .cgi file just as the files for cgi are that worked. I named it new433.cgi because I already had another hello.cgi file. ThenI got this which I have not seen before: Server error! The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request. Error message: couldn't create child process: 720003: new433.cgi If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster . Error 500 localhost 08/21/08 19:22:04 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 Hmm, the only child process that I have met is in graphics where you try to get graphics making graphics a bit like a math iteration. I really don't think that I am far off getting this working for appearing in the browser. I mean, a lot of things have gone right now. The cgi file is in the right directory and recognised as a cgi file. Interestingly, when I tested new433.cgi in the command windows box I got a bit of a funny CGI message rather than success. But where to go from here? I dont know. None of this stops me from continuing with the other VTC lessons on perl; but I am just limited for the moment in seeing the fruit of my learning in the browser. It's interesting anyway. Thanks for help again and that notepad ++ that is a cool editor. John _____ From: Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 6:16 PM To: John Thornton Cc: Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome Without delving into the murky waters of editor preferences, an immediate win would be to use notepad++ instead, which is available here http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/download.php. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM, John Thornton wrote: Yes, I was using notepad as my editor to make my files! Notepad is in general a good editor to use. For instance it worked in making .pl files that tested correctly for hello world in my command line. But I will follow your tip as notepad may have its limitations here. Hard to think of what else to use. I do have PSpad installed if I wanted to use something a bit fancier. John _____ From: Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 5:54 PM To: John Thornton Cc: Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:49 PM, John Thornton wrote: Hmm.. I did as you suggested and got: Object not found! The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again. If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 404 localhost 08/21/08 17:44:37 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 *************** So I don't know. It seems to me that there is one difference between the files that have succeeded as CGI browser formats in the explore CGI box: the successful ones are listed as CGI files whereas the ones I tried such as hello.cgi are still listed as text documents. Thanks anyway Any more suggestions and I will try them out. John That sounds interesting; what editor are you using to create the files? It sounds like it might be Notepad or something else that likes to silently add .txt to all file names. In the explorer window, go to the Tools menu and choose Folder Options. Now select the View tab and find "Hide extensions for known file types" and make sure this is not ticked. Click Apply, Ok, refresh the window and see if some of the files now display as name.cgi.txt. If so, remove the ".txt" part and try again. -- Ian Macdonald -- Ian Macdonald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wayland at wayland.id.au Thu Aug 21 02:33:10 2008 From: wayland at wayland.id.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:33:10 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, John Thornton wrote: > > When I try to put the perl script hello world! into the browser I get > this: > > Not Found > > The requested URL /cgi-bin/hello.cgi was not found on this server. > > [the top of the creen has the 404 NotFound - Mozilla message] The next step is to find your Apache error log, and look at what it says. Apache doesn't send all the information about the error message to the web browser (for security reasons), so it writes extra information into the error log. The error log could be anywhere, depending on your Apache configuration (I'm a Linux guy, so I don't know where is is on Windows). This will tell you where Apache is looking for the file. Then, when you know that, move the file to where Apache wants it to be. HTH, --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland at wayland.id.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI++++ D G+ e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Thu Aug 21 03:22:41 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:22:41 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D964ADF0FB943E386F894AD53BC30E3@home2> Right...I looked and this is the error log in Apache: [Thu Aug 21 07:13:09 2008] [notice] Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 configured -- resuming normal operations [Thu Aug 21 07:13:09 2008] [notice] Server built: Jun 14 2008 19:02:12 [Thu Aug 21 07:13:09 2008] [notice] Parent: Created child process 168 [Thu Aug 21 07:13:10 2008] [notice] Child 168: Child process is running [Thu Aug 21 07:13:10 2008] [notice] Child 168: Acquired the start mutex. [Thu Aug 21 07:13:10 2008] [notice] Child 168: Starting 250 worker threads. [Thu Aug 21 07:13:10 2008] [notice] Child 168: Starting thread to listen on port 443. [Thu Aug 21 07:13:10 2008] [notice] Child 168: Starting thread to listen on port 80. [Thu Aug 21 07:17:00 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: Variable passed to each() is not an array or object in C:\\xampp\\htdocs\\xampp\\head.php on line 27, referer: http://localhost/xampp/ [Thu Aug 21 07:29:49 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 07:30:54 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: Variable passed to each() is not an array or object in C:\\xampp\\htdocs\\xampp\\head.php on line 27, referer: http://localhost/xampp/ [Thu Aug 21 07:36:43 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 11:52:34 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 11:53:16 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] File does not exist: C:/xampp/htdocs/Desktop [Thu Aug 21 11:53:46 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] File does not exist: C:/xampp/htdocs/Desktop [Thu Aug 21 12:11:08 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 13:05:48 2008] [notice] Parent: Received shutdown signal -- Shutting down the server. [Thu Aug 21 13:05:48 2008] [notice] Child 168: Exit event signaled. Child process is ending. [Thu Aug 21 13:05:49 2008] [notice] Child 168: Released the start mutex [Thu Aug 21 13:05:50 2008] [notice] Child 168: All worker threads have exited. [Thu Aug 21 13:05:50 2008] [notice] Child 168: Child process is exiting [Thu Aug 21 13:05:50 2008] [notice] Parent: Child process exited successfully. [Thu Aug 21 13:05:53 2008] [notice] Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 configured -- resuming normal operations [Thu Aug 21 13:05:53 2008] [notice] Server built: Jun 14 2008 19:02:12 [Thu Aug 21 13:05:53 2008] [notice] Parent: Created child process 5812 [Thu Aug 21 13:05:54 2008] [notice] Child 5812: Child process is running [Thu Aug 21 13:05:54 2008] [notice] Child 5812: Acquired the start mutex. [Thu Aug 21 13:05:54 2008] [notice] Child 5812: Starting 250 worker threads. [Thu Aug 21 13:05:54 2008] [notice] Child 5812: Starting thread to listen on port 443. [Thu Aug 21 13:05:54 2008] [notice] Child 5812: Starting thread to listen on port 80. [Thu Aug 21 13:18:47 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: Variable passed to each() is not an array or object in C:\\xampp\\htdocs\\xampp\\head.php on line 27, referer: http://localhost/xampp/ [Thu Aug 21 13:18:54 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: Variable passed to each() is not an array or object in C:\\xampp\\htdocs\\xampp\\head.php on line 27, referer: http://localhost/xampp/ [Thu Aug 21 13:19:14 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: Variable passed to each() is not an array or object in C:\\xampp\\htdocs\\xampp\\head.php on line 27, referer: http://localhost/xampp/ [Thu Aug 21 13:23:52 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Notice: Undefined index: text in C:\\xampp\\htdocs\\xampp\\ming.php on line 18, referer: http://localhost/xampp/navi.php [Thu Aug 21 13:23:53 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Fatal error: Class 'SWFFont' not found in C:\\xampp\\htdocs\\xampp\\mingswf.php on line 19, referer: http://localhost/xampp/ming.php [Thu Aug 21 15:16:55 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:22:04 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:22:32 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.pl is not executable; ensure interpreted scripts have "#!" first line [Thu Aug 21 15:22:32 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (9)Bad file descriptor: don't know how to spawn child process: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.pl [Thu Aug 21 15:23:16 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:23:28 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.pl is not executable; ensure interpreted scripts have "#!" first line [Thu Aug 21 15:23:28 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (9)Bad file descriptor: don't know how to spawn child process: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.pl [Thu Aug 21 15:48:30 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:48:49 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/tiger.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:53:18 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:53:44 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/tiger.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:54:26 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/tiger.pl [Thu Aug 21 15:54:44 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/tiger.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:55:36 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 15:57:01 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 16:18:52 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:30:07 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:30:28 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello4.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:30:59 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello4.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:31:08 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:31:17 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello4.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:33:42 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:42:21 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello4.cgi [Thu Aug 21 17:44:37 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello4.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:18:04 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:18:31 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't create child process: 720003: new43.CGI [Thu Aug 21 19:18:31 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't spawn child process: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/new43.CGI [Thu Aug 21 19:21:47 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:22:04 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't create child process: 720003: new433.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:22:04 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't spawn child process: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/new433.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:54:28 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't create child process: 720003: new433.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:54:28 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't spawn child process: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/new433.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:55:04 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] script not found or unable to stat: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/hello.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:55:22 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't create child process: 720003: new433.cgi [Thu Aug 21 19:55:22 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system cannot find the path specified. : couldn't spawn child process: C:/xampp/cgi-bin/new433.cgi The very last entry would have been my last and best attempt. But how does that info help me? John ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ _- -----Original Message----- From: wayland at gwalcmai.nelson.org.au [mailto:wayland at gwalcmai.nelson.org.au] On Behalf Of Timothy S. Nelson Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 7:33 PM To: John Thornton Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, John Thornton wrote: > > When I try to put the perl script hello world! into the browser I get > this: > > Not Found > > The requested URL /cgi-bin/hello.cgi was not found on this server. > > [the top of the creen has the 404 NotFound - Mozilla message] The next step is to find your Apache error log, and look at what it says. Apache doesn't send all the information about the error message to the web browser (for security reasons), so it writes extra information into the error log. The error log could be anywhere, depending on your Apache configuration (I'm a Linux guy, so I don't know where is is on Windows). This will tell you where Apache is looking for the file. Then, when you know that, move the file to where Apache wants it to be. HTH, --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland at wayland.id.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI++++ D G+ e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From guy at alchemy.com.au Thu Aug 21 04:50:42 2008 From: guy at alchemy.com.au (Guy Morton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:50:42 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> <38d47d520808210054i368248a3ta0ab565b48b84647@mail.gmail.com> <515EB4F7FC6D44A9B88F9F18752C1D99@home2> <38d47d520808210116s3d6bad0fl9721af754f56fa3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You could also consider Eclipse with the perl EPIC plugin. On 21/08/2008, at 7:32 PM, John Thornton wrote: > Right, I feel that I might not be far off success. I used notepad++ > and managed to get the file recognised as a .cgi file just as the > files for cgi are that worked. > > I named it new433.cgi because I already had another hello.cgi file. > > ThenI got this which I have not seen before: > > Server error! > > The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete > your request. > > Error message: > couldn't create child process: 720003: new433.cgi > > If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. > > Error 500 > > localhost > 08/21/08 19:22:04 > Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h > mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 > > Hmm, the only child process that I have met is in graphics where you > try to get graphics making graphics a bit like a math iteration. > I really don't think that I am far off getting this working for > appearing in the browser. I mean, a lot of things have gone right > now. The cgi file is in the right directory and recognised as a cgi > file. > > Interestingly, when I tested new433.cgi in the command windows box I > got a bit of a funny CGI message rather than success. > > But where to go from here? I dont know. None of this stops me from > continuing with the other VTC lessons on perl; but I am just limited > for the moment in seeing the fruit of my learning in the browser. > > It's interesting anyway. Thanks for help again and that notepad ++ > that is a cool editor. > > John > > From: Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 6:16 PM > To: John Thornton > Cc: Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome > > Without delving into the murky waters of editor preferences, an > immediate win would be to use notepad++ instead, which is available > herehttp://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/download.php. > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM, John Thornton > wrote: > Yes, I was using notepad as my editor to make my files! > > > > Notepad is in general a good editor to use. For instance it worked > in making .pl files that tested correctly for hello world in my > command line. > > But I will follow your tip as notepad may have its limitations here. > > > > Hard to think of what else to use. I do have PSpad installed if I > wanted to use something a bit fancier. > > > > John > > > > From: Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 5:54 PM > To: John Thornton > Cc: Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org > > > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome > > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:49 PM, John Thornton > wrote: > > Hmm.. > > I did as you suggested and got: > > Object not found! > > The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL > manually please check your spelling and try again. > > If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. > Error 404 > localhost > 08/21/08 17:44:37 > Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h > mod_autoindex_color > PHP/5.2.6 > > *************** > So I don't know. It seems to me that there is one difference between > the > files that have succeeded as CGI browser formats in the explore CGI > box: > > the successful ones are listed as CGI files whereas the ones I tried > such as > hello.cgi are still listed as text documents. > > Thanks anyway > Any more suggestions and I will try them out. > > John > > > That sounds interesting; what editor are you using to create the > files? It sounds like it might be Notepad or something else that > likes to silently add .txt to all file names. > > In the explorer window, go to the Tools menu and choose Folder > Options. Now select the View tab and find "Hide extensions for known > file types" and make sure this is not ticked. Click Apply, Ok, > refresh the window and see if some of the files now display as > name.cgi.txt. If so, remove the ".txt" part and try again. > > > > -- > Ian Macdonald > > > > > -- > Ian Macdonald > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jarich at perltraining.com.au Thu Aug 21 05:42:42 2008 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:42:42 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome In-Reply-To: References: <198E02547CBA40C28789C2D26C7B5E20@home2> <48AD0B21.8080904@perltraining.com.au> <66EEA02B72FA4ABEB6563F8CBD1FB27D@home2> <38d47d520808210054i368248a3ta0ab565b48b84647@mail.gmail.com> <515EB4F7FC6D44A9B88F9F18752C1D99@home2> <38d47d520808210116s3d6bad0fl9721af754f56fa3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48AD62C2.6080208@perltraining.com.au> I suspect that it's not finding the correct path to Perl. Try changing your shebang line from: #!/usr/bin/perl to be: #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w and see if that helps. If it doesn't, take a peek inside cgi.cgi or perltest.cgi and see what their first line is and copy it to be the same. Make sure that this line *is* the first line in your file. J PS: This tip brought to you by the first hit from this search page: http://www.google.com/search?q=couldn%27t+create+child+process&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t The web is a great resource... -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From lsharpe at pacificwireless.com.au Thu Aug 21 16:02:25 2008 From: lsharpe at pacificwireless.com.au (Leigh Sharpe) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:02:25 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome Message-ID: <96CF49BD8B56384395D698BA99007FA32FA374@exchange.pacwire.local> Try changing this line: print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; To print CGI->header(), "Hello"; (ie drop the 's' off the word 'headers'). ________________________________ From: melbourne-pm-bounces+lsharpe=pacificwireless.com.au at pm.org [mailto:melbourne-pm-bounces+lsharpe=pacificwireless.com.au at pm.org] On Behalf Of John Thornton Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 7:33 PM To: 'Ian Macdonald' Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome Right, I feel that I might not be far off success. I used notepad++ and managed to get the file recognised as a .cgi file just as the files for cgi are that worked. I named it new433.cgi because I already had another hello.cgi file. ThenI got this which I have not seen before: Server error! The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request. Error message: couldn't create child process: 720003: new433.cgi If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster . Error 500 localhost 08/21/08 19:22:04 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 Hmm, the only child process that I have met is in graphics where you try to get graphics making graphics a bit like a math iteration. I really don't think that I am far off getting this working for appearing in the browser. I mean, a lot of things have gone right now. The cgi file is in the right directory and recognised as a cgi file. Interestingly, when I tested new433.cgi in the command windows box I got a bit of a funny CGI message rather than success. But where to go from here? I dont know. None of this stops me from continuing with the other VTC lessons on perl; but I am just limited for the moment in seeing the fruit of my learning in the browser. It's interesting anyway. Thanks for help again and that notepad ++ that is a cool editor. John ________________________________ From: Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 6:16 PM To: John Thornton Cc: Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome Without delving into the murky waters of editor preferences, an immediate win would be to use notepad++ instead, which is available here http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/download.php. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM, John Thornton wrote: Yes, I was using notepad as my editor to make my files! Notepad is in general a good editor to use. For instance it worked in making .pl files that tested correctly for hello world in my command line. But I will follow your tip as notepad may have its limitations here. Hard to think of what else to use. I do have PSpad installed if I wanted to use something a bit fancier. John ________________________________ From: Ian Macdonald [mailto:ickphum at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 5:54 PM To: John Thornton Cc: Jacinta Richardson; melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] interesting apache outcome On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:49 PM, John Thornton wrote: Hmm.. I did as you suggested and got: Object not found! The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again. If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 404 localhost 08/21/08 17:44:37 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 *************** So I don't know. It seems to me that there is one difference between the files that have succeeded as CGI browser formats in the explore CGI box: the successful ones are listed as CGI files whereas the ones I tried such as hello.cgi are still listed as text documents. Thanks anyway Any more suggestions and I will try them out. John That sounds interesting; what editor are you using to create the files? It sounds like it might be Notepad or something else that likes to silently add .txt to all file names. In the explorer window, go to the Tools menu and choose Folder Options. Now select the View tab and find "Hide extensions for known file types" and make sure this is not ticked. Click Apply, Ok, refresh the window and see if some of the files now display as name.cgi.txt. If so, remove the ".txt" part and try again. -- Ian Macdonald -- Ian Macdonald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wayland at wayland.id.au Thu Aug 21 17:50:24 2008 From: wayland at wayland.id.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:50:24 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl error message In-Reply-To: <2D964ADF0FB943E386F894AD53BC30E3@home2> References: <2D964ADF0FB943E386F894AD53BC30E3@home2> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, John Thornton wrote: > > Right...I looked and this is the error log in Apache: > [snip] > [Thu Aug 21 19:55:22 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system > cannot find the path specified. : couldn't create child process: 720003: > new433.cgi > [Thu Aug 21 19:55:22 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (OS 3)The system > cannot find the path specified. : couldn't spawn child process: > C:/xampp/cgi-bin/new433.cgi > > The very last entry would have been my last and best attempt. > > But how does that info help me? It occurs to me that the last two entries might both be relevant, as they have the same timestamp. I will assume that you have already moved your script to C:/xampp/cgi-bin/new433.cgi After doing some googling, most of the suggestions relating to this sort of problem were suggesting that the problem is in your Apache configuration file. Having said that, after looking at everything closely, I suspect that Jacinta has actually given you the correct answer. Just to answer some of your not-quite-questions, I'll make a few comments. Apache spawns multiple child processes by default, so that it can deal with multiple incoming requests at the same time; it also means that it makes more effective use of the processors on multi-processor machines. FileZilla can be thought of as "FTP client on steroids", especially in that it does SCP/SSH type transfers too. The idea, though, is that you would use this to upload your files to your ISP after you've created your website. HTH, :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland at wayland.id.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI++++ D G+ e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Fri Aug 22 00:15:15 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:15:15 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and Message-ID: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> Hello Haven't tried the solns yet. But one thing that seems to have escaped everyone's attention is that perl seems to have a weird status on my system. Before I installed XAMPP I had activeperl, apache 2.2.8, msoft sql express 2005 and php all installed on my pc. I uninstalled the php and apache before I in stalled XAMPP. But I couldn't uninstall the activeperl; I couldn't see any uninstall method. Activeperl did not appear in admin p[rograms and under all programs there was no uninstall offered. Now, having installed XAMPP there appears to be no PERL on the one hand - perl does not appear under XAMPP in the device manager list or in the error message spiels [error 500 etc at the bottom .] On the other hand Perl IS on my PC in other ways; it is there in the XAMPP explore box with folders and executable and the perltest CGI entries work in the browser to say "miniperl is ready" and "ok". So when I get time I will test my "is there/isn't there" Perl with the suggestions offered. John From benhare at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 00:27:25 2008 From: benhare at gmail.com (Ben Hare) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:27:25 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> Message-ID: <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> is it necessary to work on your own pc? cos if not, you really are going about this the hard way. if you don't have an environment at work, how about a cheap web host? you'd have your hello world script up and running in a few seconds most likely with the help of docs telling you exactly how to get your cgis working. if learning Perl ( as opposed to apache config and how to configure a pc to run Perl locally ) is your priority, that's what i would suggest. Ben. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:15 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > Hello > Haven't tried the solns yet. But one thing that seems to have > escaped everyone's attention is that perl seems to have a weird status on my > system. > > Before I installed XAMPP I had activeperl, apache 2.2.8, msoft > sql express 2005 and php all installed on my pc. I uninstalled the php and > apache before I in stalled XAMPP. But I couldn't uninstall the activeperl; I > couldn't see any uninstall method. Activeperl did not appear in admin > p[rograms and under all programs there was no uninstall offered. > > Now, having installed XAMPP there appears to be no PERL on the > one hand - perl does not appear under XAMPP in the device manager list or in > the error message spiels [error 500 etc at the bottom .] On the other hand > Perl IS on my PC in other ways; it is there in the XAMPP explore box with > folders and executable and the perltest CGI entries work in the browser to > say "miniperl is ready" and "ok". > > So when I get time I will test my "is there/isn't there" Perl > with the suggestions offered. > > John > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Fri Aug 22 00:55:57 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:55:57 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7254FABE6E3B44D6BEA59573F07B78A6@home2> That is an interesting pt. I am primarily trying to learn php and/or perl as part of my studies as a graphics student. The broad intent is to be able to combine dreamweaver with formatting websites. Apache, mysql etc only came into the learning process because the VTC tutorials use apache in their examples. The tutor in the VTC sections on Perl and php recommends that I do all of this on my PC. I have no idea if that is good advice but being a beginner I followed it. So there is absolutely no reason why I couldn't get a cheap web host and do it that way of it's easier. Even a free webhost wouldn't worry me. Ads, a lack of customer service, no reliability etc - all the banes of free webhosting - don't matter to me for this is a student activity for my own benefit; it's not an exercise of setting up any website for a business etc. I agree with you that this seems to be doing it the hard way. I have no qualifications or experience in setting up apache etc. Using an external host/server could be easier. I have never had one so I have idea which 1 to get. Any suggestions? :) Thanks again John -----Original Message----- From: Ben Hare [mailto:benhare at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 5:27 PM To: John Thornton Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and is it necessary to work on your own pc? cos if not, you really are going about this the hard way. if you don't have an environment at work, how about a cheap web host? you'd have your hello world script up and running in a few seconds most likely with the help of docs telling you exactly how to get your cgis working. if learning Perl ( as opposed to apache config and how to configure a pc to run Perl locally ) is your priority, that's what i would suggest. Ben. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:15 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > Hello > Haven't tried the solns yet. But one thing that seems to have > escaped everyone's attention is that perl seems to have a weird status on my > system. > > Before I installed XAMPP I had activeperl, apache 2.2.8, msoft > sql express 2005 and php all installed on my pc. I uninstalled the php and > apache before I in stalled XAMPP. But I couldn't uninstall the activeperl; I > couldn't see any uninstall method. Activeperl did not appear in admin > p[rograms and under all programs there was no uninstall offered. > > Now, having installed XAMPP there appears to be no PERL on the > one hand - perl does not appear under XAMPP in the device manager list or in > the error message spiels [error 500 etc at the bottom .] On the other hand > Perl IS on my PC in other ways; it is there in the XAMPP explore box with > folders and executable and the perltest CGI entries work in the browser to > say "miniperl is ready" and "ok". > > So when I get time I will test my "is there/isn't there" Perl > with the suggestions offered. > > John > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > From tjc at wintrmute.net Fri Aug 22 01:01:31 2008 From: tjc at wintrmute.net (Toby Corkindale) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:01:31 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <7254FABE6E3B44D6BEA59573F07B78A6@home2> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> <7254FABE6E3B44D6BEA59573F07B78A6@home2> Message-ID: <20080822080131.GF21172@roseberry> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 05:55:57PM +1000, John Thornton wrote: > I agree with you that this seems to be doing it the hard way. I have no > qualifications or experience in setting up apache etc. Using an external > host/server could be easier. I have never had one so I have idea which 1 to > get. Any suggestions? :) I liked A Small Orange: http://asmallorange.com/services/hosting/ Their smallest plan, Tiny, at $25/year would suit you fine. It includes, as they say: "PHP and Perl scripts support along with MySQL database access" I'm not with them currently, as I host stuff on my own server, but I've used them happily in the past. Their tech support staff were prompt and useful at replying to emails too, which makes a change! Toby -- Turning and turning in the widening gyre/The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold/Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world (gpg --recv-key B1CCF88E) From wayland at wayland.id.au Fri Aug 22 02:02:27 2008 From: wayland at wayland.id.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:02:27 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <7254FABE6E3B44D6BEA59573F07B78A6@home2> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> <7254FABE6E3B44D6BEA59573F07B78A6@home2> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Aug 2008, John Thornton wrote: > That is an interesting pt. > > I am primarily trying to learn php and/or perl as part of my studies as a > graphics student. The broad intent is to be able to combine dreamweaver with > formatting websites. Apache, mysql etc only came into the learning process > because the VTC tutorials use apache in their examples. > > The tutor in the VTC sections on Perl and php recommends that I do all of > this on my PC. I have no idea if that is good advice but being a beginner I > followed it. > > So there is absolutely no reason why I couldn't get a cheap web host and do > it that way of it's easier. Even a free webhost wouldn't worry me. Ads, a > lack of customer service, no reliability etc - all the banes of free > webhosting - don't matter to me for this is a student activity for my own > benefit; it's not an exercise of setting up any website for a business etc. > > I agree with you that this seems to be doing it the hard way. I have no > qualifications or experience in setting up apache etc. Using an external > host/server could be easier. I have never had one so I have idea which 1 to > get. Any suggestions? :) Nothing specific, but I recommend one that has HTML::Mason installed; it's a set of Perl modules that allow Perl to be embedded in HTML pages; kinda like PHP, but better :). I've been using a crowd called "Nearly Free Speech" (nfsn.net). They're an ultra-cheap webhost. Their service to me has been quite good -- they expect me to know what I'm doing, but they happily help with stuff that can only be done by them. They also have a good set of Perl modules installed, and will install more if you have specific ones that you want. They don't have mod_perl, but at the price, you can't have everything. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland at wayland.id.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI++++ D G+ e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Fri Aug 22 03:39:16 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:16 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff Message-ID: Now I have got this error message in the last 3 attempts: Server error! The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request. Error message: Premature end of script headers: hello88.cgi If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 500 localhost 08/22/08 20:33:53 Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color PHP/5.2.6 ****** I tried these 3 versions: #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w use CGI; print "Hello World!"; ************* and varying the last line with CGI-> header or CGI->headers or whatever it was that was suggested. Try changing this line: print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; To print CGI->header(), "Hello"; (ie drop the 's' off the word 'headers'). ****** That was it. ****** All three attempts made the error message above. John From benhare at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 03:46:37 2008 From: benhare at gmail.com (Ben Hare) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:46:37 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822765280808220346j503376cm743c14de41c6d3af@mail.gmail.com> hey mate, for now, don't worry about modules, get up and running: change your code to this: --- #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; print "Hello World!\n"; __END__ --- there you go.. you can learn about modules later :) Ben. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:39 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > > Now I have got this error message in the last 3 attempts: > > Server error! > > The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your > request. > > Error message: > Premature end of script headers: hello88.cgi > > If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. > Error 500 > localhost > 08/22/08 20:33:53 > Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color > PHP/5.2.6 > > ****** > > I tried these 3 versions: > > #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w > > use CGI; > > print "Hello World!"; > > ************* > > and varying the last line with CGI-> header or CGI->headers or whatever it > was that was suggested. > > Try changing this line: > > print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; > > To > > print CGI->header(), "Hello"; > > > (ie drop the 's' off the word 'headers'). > ****** > > That was it. > ****** > All three attempts made the error message above. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > From jarich at perltraining.com.au Fri Aug 22 03:56:59 2008 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:56:59 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48AE9B7B.5090306@perltraining.com.au> John Thornton wrote: > > Now I have got this error message in the last 3 attempts: > > Server error! Woohoo! Progress! Try -------------------- #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w print "Content-Type: text/html;\n\n"; print "Hello World!"; ---------------------- Also in the cmd/dos window try the following: perl -e 1; # If this does nothing, then Perl is installed # and the system knows about it. So try the # others perl -MCGI -e 1; # If this does nothing, the CGI module is # installed, otehrwise if it gives you an error # such as: "Can't locate CGI.pm in @INC...." you # know it isn't. perl -MCGI::Carp -e 1; # As above. perl -Mstrict -e 1; # Again If CGI, CGI::Carp and strict are installed (they're standard modules) but you get errors when you run the above lines then we need to do a little more work to ensure your system can find its libraries. Otherwise it's all good. All the best, J From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Fri Aug 22 04:03:53 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:03:53 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff In-Reply-To: <822765280808220346j503376cm743c14de41c6d3af@mail.gmail.com> References: <822765280808220346j503376cm743c14de41c6d3af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B7A0462C26D4AC49792D8865794492A@home2> That worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hello World in my firefox browser appears!!!!! Wooooooooooooo!Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! At this pt I concede that as a graphics student my photoshop and indesign skills do not extent to ascii art :) If they did I would draw a guy leaping in the air like those car ads: "What a feeling! Perl!" Thanks to everyone who helped! In particular Ben Hare should get a bookprize/book voucher or something from perlmongers. What this now enables me to do that is fantastic is to go through the rest of the perl tutes on vtc, read books etc BEING ABLE TO SEE THE END RESULT : that juicy message in the browser. To make everyone shudder I know so little about computers that it is not funny. I am certainly the most computer illiterate person to have ever got apache etc to work with perl. What a feeling! Perl! hee hee John -----Original Message----- From: Ben Hare [mailto:benhare at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 8:47 PM To: John Thornton Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff hey mate, for now, don't worry about modules, get up and running: change your code to this: --- #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; print "Hello World!\n"; __END__ --- there you go.. you can learn about modules later :) Ben. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:39 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > > Now I have got this error message in the last 3 attempts: > > Server error! > > The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your > request. > > Error message: > Premature end of script headers: hello88.cgi > > If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. > Error 500 > localhost > 08/22/08 20:33:53 > Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_autoindex_color > PHP/5.2.6 > > ****** > > I tried these 3 versions: > > #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w > > use CGI; > > print "Hello World!"; > > ************* > > and varying the last line with CGI-> header or CGI->headers or whatever it > was that was suggested. > > Try changing this line: > > print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; > > To > > print CGI->header(), "Hello"; > > > (ie drop the 's' off the word 'headers'). > ****** > > That was it. > ****** > All three attempts made the error message above. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > From benhare at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 04:13:30 2008 From: benhare at gmail.com (Ben Hare) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:13:30 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff In-Reply-To: <4B7A0462C26D4AC49792D8865794492A@home2> References: <822765280808220346j503376cm743c14de41c6d3af@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A0462C26D4AC49792D8865794492A@home2> Message-ID: <822765280808220413q2f4caaddtd27cd7e3741da0a8@mail.gmail.com> well done my friend! heheh! but it is important you understand why that worked - the 'magic line' shall we say of: print "Context-type: text/html\n\n"; is a line that is required to display a Perl script's content in a web browser. It is telling the browser how to interpret the content your web server is sending it. for example, if you had run your script on the command line, 'perl ', it would have printed hello world to your terminal. browsers need headers to determine what to do with content. anyway, welcome to Perl.. it's not as hard as you thought.. is it? :) Ben. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:03 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > > That worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Hello World in my firefox browser appears!!!!! > > Wooooooooooooo!Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! > > At this pt I concede that as a graphics student my photoshop and indesign > skills do not extent to ascii art :) If they did I would draw a guy leaping > in the air like those car ads: > > "What a feeling! Perl!" > > Thanks to everyone who helped! In particular Ben Hare should get a > bookprize/book voucher or something from perlmongers. > > What this now enables me to do that is fantastic is to go through the rest > of the perl tutes on vtc, read books etc BEING ABLE TO SEE THE END RESULT : > that juicy message in the browser. > > To make everyone shudder I know so little about computers that it is not > funny. I am certainly the most computer illiterate person to have ever got > apache etc to work with perl. > > What a feeling! Perl! > > hee hee > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Hare [mailto:benhare at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 8:47 PM > To: John Thornton > Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff > > hey mate, > > for now, don't worry about modules, get up and running: > > change your code to this: > > --- > > #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w > > print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; > > print "Hello World!\n"; > > __END__ > > --- > > there you go.. you can learn about modules later :) > > Ben. > > > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:39 PM, John Thornton > wrote: >> >> >> Now I have got this error message in the last 3 attempts: >> >> Server error! >> >> The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your >> request. >> >> Error message: >> Premature end of script headers: hello88.cgi >> >> If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. >> Error 500 >> localhost >> 08/22/08 20:33:53 >> Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h > mod_autoindex_color >> PHP/5.2.6 >> >> ****** >> >> I tried these 3 versions: >> >> #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w >> >> use CGI; >> >> print "Hello World!"; >> >> ************* >> >> and varying the last line with CGI-> header or CGI->headers or whatever it >> was that was suggested. >> >> Try changing this line: >> >> print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; >> >> To >> >> print CGI->header(), "Hello"; >> >> >> (ie drop the 's' off the word 'headers'). >> ****** >> >> That was it. >> ****** >> All three attempts made the error message above. >> >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Melbourne-pm mailing list >> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm >> > From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Fri Aug 22 04:25:27 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:25:27 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff In-Reply-To: <822765280808220413q2f4caaddtd27cd7e3741da0a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <822765280808220346j503376cm743c14de41c6d3af@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A0462C26D4AC49792D8865794492A@home2> <822765280808220413q2f4caaddtd27cd7e3741da0a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <172497D1E0BD47C3A151F727DA746F0F@home2> Actually, the magic line, print "Context-type: text/html\n\n" ; is mentioned in one of the VTC tutorials. All this perl has worn me out! Yes, I should try to understand it! Thanks again. John -----Original Message----- From: Ben Hare [mailto:benhare at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 9:14 PM To: John Thornton Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff well done my friend! heheh! but it is important you understand why that worked - the 'magic line' shall we say of: print "Context-type: text/html\n\n"; is a line that is required to display a Perl script's content in a web browser. It is telling the browser how to interpret the content your web server is sending it. for example, if you had run your script on the command line, 'perl ', it would have printed hello world to your terminal. browsers need headers to determine what to do with content. anyway, welcome to Perl.. it's not as hard as you thought.. is it? :) Ben. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:03 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > > That worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Hello World in my firefox browser appears!!!!! > > Wooooooooooooo!Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! > > At this pt I concede that as a graphics student my photoshop and indesign > skills do not extent to ascii art :) If they did I would draw a guy leaping > in the air like those car ads: > > "What a feeling! Perl!" > > Thanks to everyone who helped! In particular Ben Hare should get a > bookprize/book voucher or something from perlmongers. > > What this now enables me to do that is fantastic is to go through the rest > of the perl tutes on vtc, read books etc BEING ABLE TO SEE THE END RESULT : > that juicy message in the browser. > > To make everyone shudder I know so little about computers that it is not > funny. I am certainly the most computer illiterate person to have ever got > apache etc to work with perl. > > What a feeling! Perl! > > hee hee > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Hare [mailto:benhare at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 8:47 PM > To: John Thornton > Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Perl stuff > > hey mate, > > for now, don't worry about modules, get up and running: > > change your code to this: > > --- > > #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w > > print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; > > print "Hello World!\n"; > > __END__ > > --- > > there you go.. you can learn about modules later :) > > Ben. > > > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:39 PM, John Thornton > wrote: >> >> >> Now I have got this error message in the last 3 attempts: >> >> Server error! >> >> The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your >> request. >> >> Error message: >> Premature end of script headers: hello88.cgi >> >> If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. >> Error 500 >> localhost >> 08/22/08 20:33:53 >> Apache/2.2.9 (Win32) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8h > mod_autoindex_color >> PHP/5.2.6 >> >> ****** >> >> I tried these 3 versions: >> >> #!"C:\xampp\perl\bin\perl.exe" -w >> >> use CGI; >> >> print "Hello World!"; >> >> ************* >> >> and varying the last line with CGI-> header or CGI->headers or whatever it >> was that was suggested. >> >> Try changing this line: >> >> print CGI->headers(), "Hello"; >> >> To >> >> print CGI->header(), "Hello"; >> >> >> (ie drop the 's' off the word 'headers'). >> ****** >> >> That was it. >> ****** >> All three attempts made the error message above. >> >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Melbourne-pm mailing list >> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm >> > From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Sat Aug 23 03:06:07 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:06:07 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions Message-ID: [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK dominated by jobs in php programming in web programming? [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java etc, do I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, assuming that again it is intended for browser formatting. Yours sincerely John From scottp at dd.com.au Sat Aug 23 03:49:24 2008 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:49:24 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6260F94D-32D5-4B94-BD68-AC624BF45F93@dd.com.au> On 23/08/2008, at 8:06 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK > dominated > by jobs in php programming in web programming? Interesting question. Lots of potential answers. Mine would be purely age. Perl has been around so long and is everywhere that it is sort of boring. It is a bit like not reading many jobs for C. This could be crazy, but even companies that I hear are 'X' companies seem to have lots of Perl, they just don't mention it - not sure why. > [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java > etc, do > I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, > assuming that > again it is intended for browser formatting. Yes. Most of what you have learnt here - e.g. Content-type, cgi-bin directory, Apache config applies to any language. You could write in C, C++, Perl, Python, PHP, and more and can use cgi-bin. You should know there is other choices - e.g. Perl has mod_perl, PHP has mod_php (the most common way of doing php), etc - but you can always go back to simple CGI Bin directories as a good starting point. Enjoy Scott > Yours sincerely > John > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From sgc294 at internode.on.net Sat Aug 23 18:27:10 2008 From: sgc294 at internode.on.net (Andrew Dent) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:27:10 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B0B8EE.7050701@internode.on.net> G'day John Here is my own take on these topics "[1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK dominated by jobs in php programming in web programming? " "even companies that I hear are 'X' companies seem to have lots of Perl, they just don't mention it - not sure why." Here is what I experienced when I found Perl: I first "discovered Perl" mid last year, even though the ERP systems (Terminal and Web based) I had been using for years had been built on Perl. A little while after I starting my current role of providing User and DBA support for these ERP systems, I discovered Perl. Not long after this, I requested (and received) approval to be sent on a Perl Training Australia training course (excellent course). What is interesting about this, is when I suggested to my manager that being sent on a Perl course would be a good idea, I received the unexpected question of "What is Perl?". This was odd, because my manager had been in her current position for almost 10 years, yet she had no idea that the systems she was responsible for in Asia to provide User and DBA support, were built using Perl. Now I often use Perl to automate SQL queries and create small internal websites for various people. But none of them need know what I used to provide them the help they needed. Not even the global management for these ERP systems ever discussed in teleconferences that Perl is used. So I take from this, that Perl found its way in "under the radar". The Software Architects and Engineers who designed and constructed the ERP system obviously know Perl, but never felt the need to communicate to the management what language they were using. Nor does it seem that the management ever have need to ask. Looking back at the Internal Job Ad for my current role, there was no mention of Perl. Even though I now use it quite often, and read through the Perl code of the ERP Systems to help understand how things work. Editors: Everyone has their preference on these. At the beginning of my Perl discovery, I used Notepad++. But after coming across a website article describing the various popular Editors and there Pros and Cons. I shifted to using Komodo, which is produced by Active State. They have a free community edition that is available from this URL. http://www.openkomodo.com/ I still use Notepad++ occasionally as it installs nicely onto my USB stick. Useful if on someone else's PC. Komodo has the nice features of Notepad++ but also provides things important to me such as Remote File editing, vi emulation and auto text completion of Perl modules and functions when coding. So now I can edit Perl code on my PC that actually lives on a remote server, without have to manually transfer files around the place after an edit. Perl Distro: On Windows I first started using Active State Perl. Then at the Perl Training Australia training course, I heard about Strawberry Perl. This was good, because I was having trouble with installing some modules I needed into Active State Perl. Strawberry Perl does require a little more knowledge of computers to use than Active State Perl, but for the types of modules I am interested in I only have occasional trouble now. Like Editors, everyone will have their preference. So try Active State first. If you find that some modules you need are not available, or are difficult to install manually, give Strawberry Perl a go. Local Web server: When you are feeling brave you could try this. Run a Virtual Linux server on your PC. Install Virtual PC from Microsoft's website. Then download Ubuntu Server 8.04 and install it into your Virtual PC. During the install select the LAMP and Openssh Server options. See these URLs for some guidance. http://arcanecode.wordpress.com/2006/09/20/virtual-pc-step-by-step/ http://www.cosky.com/installing_ubuntu_lamp_server_within_microsoft_virtual_pc When creating the Virtual Machine to install Ubuntu Server in, you can get by with as little as 128 MB of RAM allocated to the Virtual machine and 1 GB of disk space for the hard disk. Ubuntu Server 8.04 with LAMP and Openssh installed will take up ~600 MB so for learning some Perl, the left over 400 MB should be ample. This will give you a Apache Web Server with Perl installed on your PC. Cheers Andrew melbourne-pm-request at pm.org wrote: > Send Melbourne-pm mailing list submissions to > melbourne-pm at pm.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > melbourne-pm-request at pm.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > melbourne-pm-owner at pm.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Melbourne-pm digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. perl, CGI and php questions (John Thornton) > 2. Re: perl, CGI and php questions (Scott Penrose) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:06:07 +1000 > From: "John Thornton" > Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions > To: > Cc: John Thornton > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK dominated > by jobs in php programming in web programming? > > [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java etc, do > I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, assuming that > again it is intended for browser formatting. > > > Yours sincerely > John > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:49:24 +1000 > From: Scott Penrose > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions > To: "John Thornton" > Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org > Message-ID: <6260F94D-32D5-4B94-BD68-AC624BF45F93 at dd.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > > On 23/08/2008, at 8:06 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > >> [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK >> dominated >> by jobs in php programming in web programming? >> > > Interesting question. Lots of potential answers. Mine would be purely > age. Perl has been around so long and is everywhere that it is sort of > boring. It is a bit like not reading many jobs for C. This could be > crazy, but even companies that I hear are 'X' companies seem to have > lots of Perl, they just don't mention it - not sure why. > > >> [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java >> etc, do >> I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, >> assuming that >> again it is intended for browser formatting. >> > > Yes. Most of what you have learnt here - e.g. Content-type, cgi-bin > directory, Apache config applies to any language. You could write in > C, C++, Perl, Python, PHP, and more and can use cgi-bin. > > You should know there is other choices - e.g. Perl has mod_perl, PHP > has mod_php (the most common way of doing php), etc - but you can > always go back to simple CGI Bin directories as a good starting point. > > Enjoy > > Scott > > >> Yours sincerely >> John >> _______________________________________________ >> Melbourne-pm mailing list >> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > > End of Melbourne-pm Digest, Vol 52, Issue 16 > ******************************************** > > > From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Sat Aug 23 18:40:42 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:40:42 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] FW: perl, CGI and php questions Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: John Thornton [mailto:jdthornton at ozemail.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2008 11:38 AM To: 'Tim Hogard' Cc: John Thornton Subject: RE: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions Mr Hogard Yes, I agree with you if you are saying that I am rank amateur at Perl, or for that matter computing in general. Frankly, I wouldn't know the front end of a computer from the back end. But you do realise, if you have the sense to see it, that I am doing anyone a favour by posting as an absolute beginner at Perl on this board? In any scientific approach to teaching anyone anything, methods are tried that may or may not work. Now, as a beginner who: installed Perl about a week ago installed apache about a week ago has never done any computer programming in real terms [I have played a tiny bit with python but I wouldn't count that.] has never studied computer science of any type I have managed to succeed within this week at doing 3 things: [1] installing XAMPP including getting apache 2.29 working [2] testing a perl script "hello world" on the command line with success [3] getting "hello world" to work in my firefox browser with success by using a CGI directory. **** [2] I did by myself from VTC tutorials. [1] and [3] I did with the help of this mailing list and another forum. Thanks to all who helped! Thus surely I am an example of methods of help\education\self-education that worked. If I were in the business of teaching Perl I would have some interest in whatever those successful methods were!! For on a spectrum of ignorance to a professor of computing I am surely at the ignorant end. If someone like Mr Hogard thinks that I have no place in the elite perl clique of this mailing list then I think is both sad and foolish on his part. We all had to start somewhere. I put a lot of time and effort into doing [1] and [3]; I didn't go to this list expecting the answer to be given to me on a plate. I have not seen enough of Perl to see if I like it yet or not. It is interesting in that its rules are pretty flexible. I will keep ploughing through the VTC tutorials which, by the way, are incredible and cover every topic in computing from .net framework to search engine optimisation etc. And as a graphics student I get access to the lot as part of my course, not just the free ones :) Yours sincerely John -----Original Message----- From: Tim Hogard [mailto:thogard at abnormal.com] Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2008 4:59 AM To: John Thornton Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions > > > [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK dominated > by jobs in php programming in web programming? We don't hire amateurs nor do we look in places where we have to deal with them. > > [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java etc, do > I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, assuming that > again it is intended for browser formatting. no. -tim ps. I deal with billions of dollars with perl. -tim From benhare at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 21:43:07 2008 From: benhare at gmail.com (Ben Hare) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:43:07 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822765280808232143q10c603farbf5b3401c4f5b2bc@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 8:06 PM, John Thornton wrote: > > [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK dominated > by jobs in php programming in web programming? > There's many reasons but to keep a long story short, Australia is just a small place in terms of jobs in IT. In the UK or US, Perl is in high demand, has been for years and there are Perl jobs advertised every day. Another reason is people using Perl here generally won't advertise on seek: see jobs.perl.org. > [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java etc, do > I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, assuming that > again it is intended for browser formatting. > yes and no. it's 'what scott said' :) but in the 2 languages you mentioned you generally wouldn't. Ben. > > Yours sincerely > John > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > From thogard at abnormal.com Sat Aug 23 22:02:59 2008 From: thogard at abnormal.com (Tim Hogard) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 05:02:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] FW: perl, CGI and php questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200808240502.m7O52xWR087533@v.abnormal.com> John, It looks like you took my terseness the wrong way. Sorry about that. Here is more detailed answers... > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Thornton [mailto:jdthornton at ozemail.com.au] > Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2008 11:38 AM > To: 'Tim Hogard' > Cc: John Thornton > Subject: RE: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions > > Mr Hogard > Yes, I agree with you if you are saying that I am rank amateur at > Perl, or for that matter computing in general. Frankly, I wouldn't know the > front end of a computer from the back end. There are serveral reasons perl jobs don't appear to be common. Not saying you are. I was just saying we don't advertise where we have to weed out the amatures and I've found most of the popular job sites are full of jobs seekers who aren't up to the task. Seek has its place but most jobs at higher levels tend to have a different recruitment method. For example I tend to recruit out of local computer clubs. We tend to hire coders that have experence in assembly. Not that we use it much, but a coder that has some experence in that tends to understand what is behind seemingly innocent statements that may blow out to millions of CPU cycles. Perl started out as a mix between the unix programs sed and awk wrapted in a shell. sed and awk have been the core tools for doing complex system administration tasks for years but its rare for upper managment to know those program exist let alone that there was need to write them. I've found that perl program tend to get written and then be done. I've found projects written in a more OOD style and less procedural tend to go on forever. Projects that are never done and always late need more people so they get more ads. > If someone like Mr Hogard thinks that I have no place in the elite > perl clique of this mailing list then I think is both sad and foolish on his > part. Sorry if you took that the wrong way. Even those of us who have been using perl forever use these lists to learn new wthings. Not long ago someone in this list pointed out a bug in my code with the "||" vs "or". I have a simple cgi framework here: http://www.abnormal.com/~thogard/cgi.shtml It uses no modules, is very quick and might give you a place to undersand how data flows. There are plenty on the list would argue there are much better ways of doing cgi but that was how it was done before the cool modules. Sorry about the misunderstanding. -tim From cas at taz.net.au Sun Aug 24 15:13:29 2008 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:13:29 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080824221329.GA20526@taz.net.au> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 05:27:25PM +1000, Ben Hare wrote: > is it necessary to work on your own pc? cos if not, you really are > going about this the hard way. if you don't have an environment at > work, how about a cheap web host? you'd have your hello world script > up and running in a few seconds most likely with the help of docs > telling you exactly how to get your cgis working. another similar option would be to get an old PC and install linux on it. pretty much any old computer will do, even an ancient pentium with 64MB RAM and a network card will do for a lightly load home/experimental web server (that spec used to be considered adequate for real web sites out on the internet 10+ years ago....but, of course, the newer & faster & bigger, the better). run ubuntu or debian linux on it (debian's probably easier to have a minimal install without graphical desktop, which is what you want for a server, especially on ancient hardware). the system doesn't need a screen or keyboard or even a CD-ROM except for the initial install - as soon as it's running, it doesn't need them any more. after the base install you'd need apache, perl, various perl modules, and optionally samba (to provide file sharing from the linux server to your windows machine). then you would either: 1. install putty.exe onto your windows box to give you an ssh client so you login and get a command-line shell on the linux box from the windows machine. then use nano or some other simple editor to edit your perl scripts. 2. install and configure samba on the linux box so that your apache DocumentRoot *AND* your cgi-bin directory appeared as network shares on your windows box - you could then edit the files on windows using Notepad++ or whatever and just save them directly to those shares. it may seem like more work to get this running, but it's probably no more work than stuffing around with apache + perl on windows. Both of these things just work "out of the box" on linux because that is the environment they were designed for. craig -- craig sanders From adrian at ash-blue.org Sun Aug 24 15:48:45 2008 From: adrian at ash-blue.org (adrian at ash-blue.org) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:48:45 -0700 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <20080824221329.GA20526@taz.net.au> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> <20080824221329.GA20526@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <931e18428a3733e8afdbfc5c4b3310b1@ash-blue.org> John (and other in this thread), As a long time lurker and sometime contributor on Melb PM, I think that it is entirely appropriate for a learner to start asking "dumb" questions on this list (Remember - "There is no such thing as a dumb question"). You'll find a group of helpful people, and a number of different solutions offered for any level of problem. You'll also learn quickly As evidenced by the replies so far, you have at your fingertips several experts, professional trainers & recruiters, as well as links into a vibrant Melbourne Open Source development community. I would highly recommend (if you can do this) to bring your own computer to the next PM meeting and you will find it easier to solve some of the basic questions, and get you environment set up properly in a short time. With any solution in Perl, There Is More Than One Way to Do It. My preference for an environment (which fits on a USB stick & runs under Windows) is PortableApps running XAMPP [1]. Assuming your USB ports at work aren't locked, and you can run an application from a USB stick there, it means you can take your exact environment quickly between work, home and places like the PM meeting. Good luck, Adrian. [1] http://www.portableapps.com On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:13:29 +1000, Craig Sanders wrote: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 05:27:25PM +1000, Ben Hare wrote: >> is it necessary to work on your own pc? cos if not, you really are >> going about this the hard way. if you don't have an environment at >> work, how about a cheap web host? you'd have your hello world script >> up and running in a few seconds most likely with the help of docs >> telling you exactly how to get your cgis working. > > another similar option would be to get an old PC and install linux on > it. pretty much any old computer will do, even an ancient pentium with > 64MB RAM and a network card will do for a lightly load home/experimental > web server (that spec used to be considered adequate for real web sites > out on the internet 10+ years ago....but, of course, the newer & faster > & bigger, the better). > > run ubuntu or debian linux on it (debian's probably easier to have a > minimal install without graphical desktop, which is what you want for > a server, especially on ancient hardware). the system doesn't need a > screen or keyboard or even a CD-ROM except for the initial install - as > soon as it's running, it doesn't need them any more. > > after the base install you'd need apache, perl, various perl modules, > and optionally samba (to provide file sharing from the linux server to > your windows machine). > > then you would either: > > 1. install putty.exe onto your windows box to give you an ssh client so > you login and get a command-line shell on the linux box from the windows > machine. then use nano or some other simple editor to edit your perl > scripts. > > 2. install and configure samba on the linux box so that your apache > DocumentRoot *AND* your cgi-bin directory appeared as network shares > on your windows box - you could then edit the files on windows using > Notepad++ or whatever and just save them directly to those shares. > > > it may seem like more work to get this running, but it's probably no > more work than stuffing around with apache + perl on windows. Both > of these things just work "out of the box" on linux because that is > the environment they were designed for. > > craig > > -- > craig sanders > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Aug 24 16:06:57 2008 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:06:57 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <20080824221329.GA20526@taz.net.au> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> <20080824221329.GA20526@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <0C6E8E9F-251C-46D1-9F9C-9F2634BDDD1E@dd.com.au> Also can use vmware Sent from my iPhone On 25/08/2008, at 8:13, Craig Sanders wrote: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 05:27:25PM +1000, Ben Hare wrote: >> is it necessary to work on your own pc? cos if not, you really are >> going about this the hard way. if you don't have an environment at >> work, how about a cheap web host? you'd have your hello world script >> up and running in a few seconds most likely with the help of docs >> telling you exactly how to get your cgis working. > > another similar option would be to get an old PC and install linux on > it. pretty much any old computer will do, even an ancient pentium with > 64MB RAM and a network card will do for a lightly load home/ > experimental > web server (that spec used to be considered adequate for real web > sites > out on the internet 10+ years ago....but, of course, the newer & > faster > & bigger, the better). > > run ubuntu or debian linux on it (debian's probably easier to have a > minimal install without graphical desktop, which is what you want for > a server, especially on ancient hardware). the system doesn't need a > screen or keyboard or even a CD-ROM except for the initial install - > as > soon as it's running, it doesn't need them any more. > > after the base install you'd need apache, perl, various perl modules, > and optionally samba (to provide file sharing from the linux server to > your windows machine). > > then you would either: > > 1. install putty.exe onto your windows box to give you an ssh client > so > you login and get a command-line shell on the linux box from the > windows > machine. then use nano or some other simple editor to edit your perl > scripts. > > 2. install and configure samba on the linux box so that your apache > DocumentRoot *AND* your cgi-bin directory appeared as network shares > on your windows box - you could then edit the files on windows using > Notepad++ or whatever and just save them directly to those shares. > > > it may seem like more work to get this running, but it's probably no > more work than stuffing around with apache + perl on windows. Both > of these things just work "out of the box" on linux because that is > the environment they were designed for. > > craig > > -- > craig sanders > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From cas at taz.net.au Sun Aug 24 22:48:45 2008 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:48:45 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] apache and perl and In-Reply-To: <0C6E8E9F-251C-46D1-9F9C-9F2634BDDD1E@dd.com.au> References: <332C40E0BF9A455E83902937C0A237AD@home2> <822765280808220027l5642f8dem647b1c7511a5b324@mail.gmail.com> <20080824221329.GA20526@taz.net.au> <0C6E8E9F-251C-46D1-9F9C-9F2634BDDD1E@dd.com.au> Message-ID: <20080825054845.GB20526@taz.net.au> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 09:06:57AM +1000, Scott Penrose wrote: > Also can use vmware yep, that's probably an even better option than scrounging up an ancient machine - run linux (w/ apache, perl, etc) inside vmware on the windows box. craig -- craig sanders A god's primary function is to confirm for us deeply held beliefs that we can't let go of, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. When you are totally and absolutely convinced of something fundamentally unreasonable, it helps to believe you have divine guidance. From wayland at wayland.id.au Mon Aug 25 18:10:45 2008 From: wayland at wayland.id.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:10:45 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 2008, John Thornton wrote: > > [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK dominated > by jobs in php programming in web programming? Another thing no-one has mentioned; once you've learned Perl well, it's easier to go to other languages. IIRC, someone mentioned earlier that Python had only one correct way to do it, which is their One True Python Way. Most programming languages are like this to a certain extent. Perl's motto, on the other hand, is "There's more than one way to do it". This means that you can pick the most appropriate for the job, your skills, and the like. Because Perl is like this (and has everything in except the kitchen sink), it's easier to go to other languages; they all seem like cut-down versions of Perl (cut down in different ways). This flexibility of Perl has both advantages and disadvantages. Because not all the features are needed (even though they are available), the learning curve is only marginally higher than with other languages such as PHP and Python -- I'd estimate a few extra hours a month if you were doing 40 hours of Perl a week (ie. not that much extra). OTOH, note that I said learning curve -- you'd get all that time back, and more, after a while, because, at least in my experience, Perl is the language that helps you go from idea to finished program the quickest; this is coding time, rather than learning time, and this is where you're saving time. > [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java etc, do > I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, assuming that > again it is intended for browser formatting. To expand on what someone else said, there are two main ways of doing Web Programming; the CGI way, and the Apache Module way. With the CGI way, Apache finds the CGI file, and runs it like any other program, and then sends the output back to the browser. So it can be written in any language, but it needs to produce headers as well as content (ie. "Content-type" as well as HTML). The Apache Module way involves getting extra modules for Apache, such as mod_perl and mod_php. Each module only works with one specific language, but it tends to be more efficient in its use of resources. mod_php also has a templating system built in, whereas mod_perl doesn't. Perl, though, has a number of templating systems that you can use (ie. it's good to have both mod_perl and the templating system; while each can be used separately, it's generally more useful to combine them). As I've mentioned before, the templating system I favour is HTML::Mason. So, here's a summary of my recommendations: Both models: Apache, perl CGI model: CGI module, easier setup, but more programming effort Apache module model: mod_perl, HTML::Mason module; more setup, but easier programming HTH, --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland at wayland.id.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI++++ D G+ e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From jdthornton at ozemail.com.au Mon Aug 25 20:50:11 2008 From: jdthornton at ozemail.com.au (John Thornton) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:50:11 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15551789F3B547AD9F47C2DBD0520524@home2> Tim That's interesting The issue of a "best" programming language for the beginner to start off with is always a contentious area. In the old HSC in Victoria [early to mid 80s before the VCE arrived] the math A/B subjects had a tutorial/command list of Pascal at the back of the math text book. I know this from fishing a math A/B book from a hop shop bin. I am NOT that old!!!!! When I was at school there was a short computer unit where Basic was taught and I absolutely hated the language. All those Go to,If then things...to me they were so primitive and boring. From what I have read Python is the most fashionable language for beginners to program with these days. Basic is frowned upon for teaching beginners "bad habits" whatever they may be. But I will take Perl! John -----Original Message----- From: wayland at gwalcmai.nelson.org.au [mailto:wayland at gwalcmai.nelson.org.au] On Behalf Of Timothy S. Nelson Sent: Tuesday, 26 August 2008 11:11 AM To: John Thornton Cc: melbourne-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions On Sat, 23 Aug 2008, John Thornton wrote: > > [1] No disrespect to perl, but why are jobsites like SEEK dominated > by jobs in php programming in web programming? Another thing no-one has mentioned; once you've learned Perl well, it's easier to go to other languages. IIRC, someone mentioned earlier that Python had only one correct way to do it, which is their One True Python Way. Most programming languages are like this to a certain extent. Perl's motto, on the other hand, is "There's more than one way to do it". This means that you can pick the most appropriate for the job, your skills, and the like. Because Perl is like this (and has everything in except the kitchen sink), it's easier to go to other languages; they all seem like cut-down versions of Perl (cut down in different ways). This flexibility of Perl has both advantages and disadvantages. Because not all the features are needed (even though they are available), the learning curve is only marginally higher than with other languages such as PHP and Python -- I'd estimate a few extra hours a month if you were doing 40 hours of Perl a week (ie. not that much extra). OTOH, note that I said learning curve -- you'd get all that time back, and more, after a while, because, at least in my experience, Perl is the language that helps you go from idea to finished program the quickest; this is coding time, rather than learning time, and this is where you're saving time. > [2] If I make a correct script in another language, php, Java etc, do > I save it to the same cgi-bin that worked for perl? That is, assuming that > again it is intended for browser formatting. To expand on what someone else said, there are two main ways of doing Web Programming; the CGI way, and the Apache Module way. With the CGI way, Apache finds the CGI file, and runs it like any other program, and then sends the output back to the browser. So it can be written in any language, but it needs to produce headers as well as content (ie. "Content-type" as well as HTML). The Apache Module way involves getting extra modules for Apache, such as mod_perl and mod_php. Each module only works with one specific language, but it tends to be more efficient in its use of resources. mod_php also has a templating system built in, whereas mod_perl doesn't. Perl, though, has a number of templating systems that you can use (ie. it's good to have both mod_perl and the templating system; while each can be used separately, it's generally more useful to combine them). As I've mentioned before, the templating system I favour is HTML::Mason. So, here's a summary of my recommendations: Both models: Apache, perl CGI model: CGI module, easier setup, but more programming effort Apache module model: mod_perl, HTML::Mason module; more setup, but easier programming HTH, --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland at wayland.id.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI++++ D G+ e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From gary.monson at rea-group.com Mon Aug 25 22:59:15 2008 From: gary.monson at rea-group.com (Gary Monson) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:59:15 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] mod_perl and apache authentication Message-ID: <200808261559.15356.gary.monson@rea-group.com> Hi everyone, I am trying to write a test mod_perl authentication mechanism (for mod_perl 1.29), but my PerlAuthenHandler does not seem to be called (although my PerlAccessHandler *does* get called, and I can force the browser to send credentials by returning AUTH_REQUIRED from that). I only have access to the .htaccess to configure this (for now), and I suspect that the LDAP authentication already configured in the httpd.conf is interfering with my ability to call my PerlAuthenHandler. Is it the case that only one module can handle 'authentication' for a location (even if more than one can be run for 'access')? Simplified version of code is below: .htaccess: --------------------- PerlRequire /path/to/lib/My/Access.pm PerlRequire /path/to/lib/My/Authen.pm AuthName Test AuthType Basic PerlAccessHandler My::Access->handler PerlAuthenHandler My::Authen->handler Require valid-user Order deny,allow Deny from all My/Access.pm --------------------- package My::Access; use strict; use warnings; use Apache::Constants qw(:common); sub handler ($$) { my ($class, $r) = @_; warn "My::Access::handler called"; # appears in logfile # this return value is temporary while testing!! return AUTH_REQUIRED; } My/Authen.pm --------------------- package My::Authen; use strict; use warnings; use Apache::Constants (:common); sub handler ($$) { my ($class, $r) = @_; warn "My::Authen::handler called"; # does not appear in logfile return OK; } --------------------- Thanks in advance for any help or tips you can give. -- Gary From ddick at aapt.net.au Tue Aug 26 04:28:07 2008 From: ddick at aapt.net.au (David Dick) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:28:07 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] mod_perl and apache authentication In-Reply-To: <200808261559.15356.gary.monson@rea-group.com> References: <200808261559.15356.gary.monson@rea-group.com> Message-ID: <48B3E8C7.3030005@aapt.net.au> Gary Monson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I am trying to write a test mod_perl authentication mechanism (for mod_perl > 1.29), but my PerlAuthenHandler does not seem to be called (although my > PerlAccessHandler *does* get called, and I can force the browser to send > credentials by returning AUTH_REQUIRED from that). > > I only have access to the .htaccess to configure this (for now), and I suspect > that the LDAP authentication already configured in the httpd.conf is > interfering with my ability to call my PerlAuthenHandler. Is it the case > that only one module can handle 'authentication' for a location (even if more > than one can be run for 'access')? > Okay, it's been a long time since i've done any apache module programming, but my copy of the Eagle book says that when you have stacked handlers for the same phase (in this case the authentication phase, the first handler to respond with OK or AUTH_REQUIRED causes all the other handlers to be skipped, otherwise, the handler can return DECLINED to allow the next handler to check the request. However, the server will call the handlers in reverse order of installation. Hopefully this helps. Best of luck -Dave From wayland at wayland.id.au Tue Aug 26 16:10:13 2008 From: wayland at wayland.id.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:10:13 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] perl, CGI and php questions In-Reply-To: <15551789F3B547AD9F47C2DBD0520524@home2> References: <15551789F3B547AD9F47C2DBD0520524@home2> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, John Thornton wrote: > Tim > That's interesting > > The issue of a "best" programming language for the beginner to start off > with is always a contentious area. > > In the old HSC in Victoria [early to mid 80s before the VCE arrived] the > math A/B subjects had a tutorial/command list of Pascal at the back of the > math text book. I know this from fishing a math A/B book from a hop shop > bin. I am NOT that old!!!!! Neither am I, but I first learned Pascal in VCE :). > When I was at school there was a short computer unit where Basic was > taught and I absolutely hated the language. All those Go to,If then > things...to me they were so primitive and boring. Agree, although I used it for 5 years in Primary/High school, I'd hate to now. But Basic as it was originally conceived of wasn't as bad as Basic as it was actually implemented, so I tend to bag certain versions of basic (ie. GWBASIC) rather than Basic as a whole. > From what I have read Python is the most fashionable language for > beginners to program with these days. That doesn't surprise me. At Uni, they started us on C. > Basic is frowned upon for teaching > beginners "bad habits" whatever they may be. But I will take Perl! GOTO could be considered a bad habit. GOTO is possible in many languages, but rarely useful (although I will admit to using it in C to simulate a switch statement when comparing strings :) ). Another of the supposed bad habits was that it didn't require you to declare your variables. But that's like 90% of the scripting languages out there. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland at wayland.id.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI++++ D G+ e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From gary.monson at rea-group.com Wed Aug 27 22:29:12 2008 From: gary.monson at rea-group.com (Gary Monson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:29:12 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] mod_perl and apache authentication References: <200808261559.15356.gary.monson@rea-group.com> <48B3E8C7.3030005@aapt.net.au> Message-ID: <6FA6124E9378214883CA93A54AED601D07C0779D@EMAIL.win.int.realestate.com.au> Thanks Dave Does order of installation refer to order it is declared in the httpd.conf (or .htaccess) file, or is it based on the directory that the rule applies to (i.e. according to specificity). I'm guessing the former, but I've gotten access to change my httpd.conf, and putting the LDAP stuff first (i.e. earlier installation?) in the conf file does not help. Everything works beautifully when that LDAP auth stuff is not there. If all else fails, I'm thinking of altering the LDAP auth to apply only to a subdirectory (not overlapping with the one I am working on setting up auth for), because strictly speaking, that is probably all that it is really required for. Thanks -- Gary -----Original Message----- Okay, it's been a long time since i've done any apache module programming, but my copy of the Eagle book says that when you have stacked handlers for the same phase (in this case the authentication phase, the first handler to respond with OK or AUTH_REQUIRED causes all the other handlers to be skipped, otherwise, the handler can return DECLINED to allow the next handler to check the request. However, the server will call the handlers in reverse order of installation. Hopefully this helps. Best of luck -Dave _______________________________________________ Melbourne-pm mailing list Melbourne-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jarich at perltraining.com.au Fri Aug 29 02:42:45 2008 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:42:45 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Next Meeting: Wednesday 10th September Message-ID: <48B7C495.4030808@perltraining.com.au> G'day folk, Just a quick reminder that our regular monthly meeting will run next week on Wednesday 10th. You are welcome to come and encouraged to bring friends, family, co-workers and random people you find on the street. :) Date: Wednesday 10th September 2008 Time: 6:30pm Location: Level 1, 172 Flinders St, (just opposite Federation Square) Map: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6sa7l8 If you're one of the lucky few Perl people to have had a proposal accepted at OSDC this year, then I encourage you to consider presenting it to us at this upcoming meeting, or October or November. This will allow us to provide you with feedback and improvements before the big event. For those who don't know, Larry Wall will be at OSDC this year, kindly sponsored (as far as I understand) by the wonderful Melbourne Perl shop: Strategic Data. OSDC is running at the start of December in Sydney. Registrations will no doubt open soon. Anyway, back to this meeting. I expect to have arranged a talk by Vanessa Teague on electronic voting. This might not be much about Perl, but I hope it will be interesting. If you have a strong opinion about whether she should give an overview of ev or focus on the crypto - let me know soon so I can pass that on. If you have a more Perlish talk to give as well, that'd be awesome! All the best, J -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au |