From floss at lex.hider.name Sat Jun 9 15:33:19 2007 From: floss at lex.hider.name (Lexual) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:33:19 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Getting a Mac Power Book In-Reply-To: <20070530014843.GA27227@taz.net.au> References: <3c2b63c00705272125wd527579v4f2e09989f9f555@mail.gmail.com> <20070530014843.GA27227@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <200706100833.19191.floss@lex.hider.name> On Wednesday 30 May 2007 11:48:44 Craig Sanders wrote: > > craig > > ps: i use the sawfish WM with gnome. the only reason i use sawfish > is that it's the only WM i know of that supports middle-click on the > maximise button to only maximise vertically, and right-click to only > maximise horizontally. very useful feature that, especially for getting > max height xterm windows. Kwin [kde's WM] also has this great feature. From jarich at perltraining.com.au Tue Jun 12 21:25:25 2007 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:25:25 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM *tonight* Message-ID: <466F71B5.9040602@perltraining.com.au> (Sent on behalf of Paul Fenwick just in case this gets through faster) What: Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM When: *TONIGHT* 6:30pm Where: Level 8, 14 Blackwood Street, North Melbourne Includes: Awesome fun and AGM! Melbourne Perl Monger's Annual General Meeting ---------------------------------------------- Tonight's MPM is a very important one, as we have to have our AGM as well as all the normal talks and demos we have. We (the MPM committee) hope we can keep the AGM part of the meeting short, but there are a few things we need to have the membership do. Most importantly, the continued existence of the Melbourne Perl Mongers as a formally registered Association (with all the legal weight and responsibilities that entails) will be discussed. We're not talking about ending MPM, just the part where we're formally registered with the state government. The Association was formed to allow MPM to have a bank account, one of the precursors to MPM organising the OSDC in 2004. But now the OSDC has its own legal entity, freeing the MPM association from one of its primary raison d'etre. The other primary one is just the protection of the membership from legal schenanigans e.g. some one suing because they fell over at a meeting etc. Even with the spin-out of the OSDC, there may well be a case to continue the association, just for this contingency alone. Agenda for MPM Meeting 1. Welcome from President 2. Commence AGM Agenda for AGMmeeting: * President's report * Treasurer's report * Discussion of most appropriate legal entity for MPM, if any. This may result in a motion. * If the MPM as an association still exists after any motion * Positions declared vacant * Nominations * Voting for new office holders 3. Talks et al 4. Pub ahoy! === Talks === Unfortunately our scheduled speaker, Leif Eriksen, is unable to attend the meeting at late notice. If you've ever wanted to speak at Melb.PM, now's a great time to raise your hand. ;) Failing alternate speakers, I have some material on race conditions, how they can result in Bad Things, and techniques on avoiding them. If you're all really eager, I can even get into how to use Perl to pass temporary, anonymous files[1] between processes for high grade information security. Hope to see you all tonight! Paul [1] These are real files, but they don't have names, and consequently don't exist in the traditional sense on the filesystem. -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From jarich at perltraining.com.au Tue Jun 12 21:36:23 2007 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:36:23 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM *tonight* In-Reply-To: <466F71B5.9040602@perltraining.com.au> References: <466F71B5.9040602@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <466F7447.5060906@perltraining.com.au> Just a quick addition. If you are not yet a member and would like to be, you can join at the start of the AGM. I believe membership is $10 (once-only). Paul will have membership forms available. You need to be a member in order to accept a nomination for a position on the committee or to vote. Scott will be able to tell us who has been elected unopposed to the various positions - based on nominations from last week - at the start of the meeting. All the best, Jacinta -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From alecclews at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 22:03:55 2007 From: alecclews at gmail.com (Alec Clews) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:03:55 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM *tonight* In-Reply-To: <466F7447.5060906@perltraining.com.au> References: <466F71B5.9040602@perltraining.com.au> <466F7447.5060906@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <3c2b63c00706122203o504ca7cja3817c59e1593099@mail.gmail.com> On the subject of talks. Does anyone have experience of applying Agile style practices to Perl programming? e.g. Test Driven Development, Re-factoring, Pair programming. I'd be interested in hearing any insights or thoughts. Perhaps a BOF or round table format? On 13/06/07, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > > Just a quick addition. If you are not yet a member and would like to be, > you > can join at the start of the AGM. I believe membership is $10 > (once-only). > Paul will have membership forms available. > > You need to be a member in order to accept a nomination for a position on > the > committee or to vote. Scott will be able to tell us who has been elected > unopposed to the various positions - based on nominations from last week - > at > the start of the meeting. > > All the best, > > Jacinta > > -- > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | > (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > -- Alec Clews Melbourne, Australia. Jabber: alecclews at jabber.org.au PGPKey ID: 0x9BBBFC7C blog:http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/melbourne-pm/attachments/20070613/ef3e3a17/attachment.html From skud at infotrope.net Tue Jun 12 22:14:16 2007 From: skud at infotrope.net (Kirrily Robert) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:14:16 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM *tonight* In-Reply-To: <3c2b63c00706122203o504ca7cja3817c59e1593099@mail.gmail.com> References: <466F71B5.9040602@perltraining.com.au> <466F7447.5060906@perltraining.com.au> <3c2b63c00706122203o504ca7cja3817c59e1593099@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/13/07, Alec Clews wrote: > On the subject of talks. > > Does anyone have experience of applying Agile style practices to Perl > programming? e.g. Test Driven Development, Re-factoring, Pair programming. > I'd be interested in hearing any insights or thoughts. Perhaps a BOF or > round table format? Yes, count me in for that one! K. -- Kirrily Robert skud at infotrope.net http://infotrope.net From melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com Tue Jun 12 22:16:31 2007 From: melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:16:31 -0700 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM *tonight* In-Reply-To: <3c2b63c00706122203o504ca7cja3817c59e1593099@mail.gmail.com> References: <466F71B5.9040602@perltraining.com.au> <466F7447.5060906@perltraining.com.au> <3c2b63c00706122203o504ca7cja3817c59e1593099@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070613051631.GB18599@joshheumann.com> > On the subject of talks. > > Does anyone have experience of applying Agile style practices to Perl > programming? e.g. Test Driven Development, Re-factoring, Pair programming. > I'd be interested in hearing any insights or thoughts. Perhaps a BOF or > round table format? I have experience with all of those, both as a consultant working in a small group, and as an employee in a large organization. I'd be happy to talk about it, but since I won't have anything prepared, it'll probably be better if we do it as a BOF/roundtable kind of thing. And I accept beer as payment (which might be why I'm not consulting any more). J From perl at infotrope.net Tue Jun 12 22:28:05 2007 From: perl at infotrope.net (Kirrily Robert) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:28:05 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM *tonight* In-Reply-To: <3c2b63c00706122203o504ca7cja3817c59e1593099@mail.gmail.com> References: <466F71B5.9040602@perltraining.com.au> <466F7447.5060906@perltraining.com.au> <3c2b63c00706122203o504ca7cja3817c59e1593099@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/13/07, Alec Clews wrote: > On the subject of talks. > > Does anyone have experience of applying Agile style practices to Perl > programming? e.g. Test Driven Development, Re-factoring, Pair programming. > I'd be interested in hearing any insights or thoughts. Perhaps a BOF or > round table format? Count me in. I've been doing agile techniques with Perl for 6 years or so now. K. -- Kirrily Robert skud at infotrope.net http://infotrope.net From pjf at perltraining.com.au Tue Jun 12 23:17:32 2007 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:17:32 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Winding up of associations Message-ID: <466F8BFC.8040202@perltraining.com.au> G'day Everyone, Looks like we can't actually wind up MPM with a vote at the AGM. According to the Associations Incorporation Act 1981 an association can only be wound up voluntarily by special resolution. To have a special resolution, we need a 3/4 majority vote, and provide 21 days notice to members of the meeting at which the special resolution shall be voted upon. As far as I can tell we have done this. So while we can certainly discuss the best legal entity (or lack thereof) at tonight's AGM, I don't believe we can actually alter its structure, even if 3/4s of the members think it's a good idea. Cheerio, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Jun 12 23:49:40 2007 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:49:40 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Winding up of associations In-Reply-To: <466F8BFC.8040202@perltraining.com.au> References: <466F8BFC.8040202@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: That is no problem I think, just a formality either way. If we do decide to wind up, we can then move forward with all the legal required steps. Scott On 13/06/2007, at 4:17 PM, Paul Fenwick wrote: > G'day Everyone, > > Looks like we can't actually wind up MPM with a vote at the AGM. > According > to the Associations Incorporation Act 1981 an association can only > be wound > up voluntarily by special resolution. > > To have a special resolution, we need a 3/4 majority vote, and > provide 21 > days notice to members of the meeting at which the special > resolution shall > be voted upon. As far as I can tell we have done this. So while > we can > certainly discuss the best legal entity (or lack thereof) at > tonight's AGM, > I don't believe we can actually alter its structure, even if 3/4s > of the > members think it's a good idea. > > Cheerio, > > Paul > > -- > Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ > Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 > Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- * - * http://www.osdc.com.au - Open Source Developers Conference * - * Scott Penrose Welcome to the Digital Dimension http://www.dd.com.au/ scottp at dd.com.au Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about butterflies either. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Microsoft is not the answer. It's the question. And the answer is no. From jarich at perltraining.com.au Wed Jun 13 04:42:17 2007 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:42:17 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] OSD Club meeting - tomorrow night 14th June In-Reply-To: <200706040308.l5438Ow0006566@mail35.syd.optusnet.com.au> References: <200706040308.l5438Ow0006566@mail35.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <466FD819.1000906@perltraining.com.au> Sorry about the late notice. ------8<-------8<-------8<-------8<-------8<-------8<-------8<------ Open Source Developers' Club Meeting (hosted by the PHP user group) When/Where ~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Thursday 14th June 2007 Time: 7.00pm Address ~~~~~~~ Hitwise Melbourne Level 6, 580 St Kilda Rd Melbourne Human Interfaces for Geeks - Paul Fenwick - 7:15 - 8:00pm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As technical professionals we excel at understanding protocols, standards, file-formats, and APIs. Whenever there is a doubt as to the correct way to do things, one merely needs to read the fine manual or source code. Unfortunately the reference manual for humans was lost a long time ago, and the source code is poorly documented. We've been struggling with inter-human communication ever since. Paul Fenwick will present his findings at reverse-engineering the human communication protocol. Google Web Toolkit & Gears - Scott Penrose - 8:15 - 9:00pm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Writing large scale Javascript/AJAX applications with a large group of developers is very difficult. Using a strongly typed language with built in testing capabilities and real time debugging via a GUI IDE may be the answer. Come and see how GWT can be used to write AJAX applications. Now that you have written your large AJAX applciation your customers find it a little slow to load, locks up your UI (Javascript UI is single threaded) and is not available on the train - well Gears is your answer. Come and see a simple demonstration of offline applications. Socialising & Networking - 9:00pm onward ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ After the meeting we'll be moving across the road to the Belgian Beer Cafe, for an informal chat over a few cold ones. Pizza, softdrink, tea, coffee and comfy swivel chairs will be provided with compliments of our major sponsor, Hitwise. From scottp at dd.com.au Wed Jun 13 16:00:32 2007 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:00:32 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Fwd: [OSDC:Announce] Call for Papers reminder: Open Source Developers' Conference 2007 - Brisbane Australia References: Message-ID: <2215512D-A5B4-475B-925C-000ABDABB301@dd.com.au> Call for Papers Open Source Developers' Conference 2007 - Brisbane Australia "Success in Development & Business" OSDC is an Australian grass-roots conference providing Open Source developers with an opportunity to meet, share, learn, and of course show-off. OSDC focuses on Open Source developers building solutions directly for customers and other end users, anything goes as long as the code or the development platform is Open Source. Last year's conference attracted over 180 people, 60 talks, and 6 tutorials. Entry for delegates is kept easy by maintaining a low registration fee (approx $300), which always includes the conference dinner. This year OSDC will be held in Brisbane (Australia) from the 26th to the 29th of November, with an extra dedicated stream for presentations on Open Source business development, case studies, software process, and project management. The theme for this year's conference is "Success in Development & Business". If you are an Open Source maintainer, developer or user we would encourage you to submit a talk proposal on the open-source tools, solutions, technologies, or languages you are working with. Previous years have included numerous talks on topics such as: - FOSS Software Development Tools, Software Process and Project Management - Languages/Platforms: C/C++, Java, C#/Mono/OSS.Net - Scripting: Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby - Databases - Education - Web Technologies - Emerging Technologies and Innovation For more details and to submit your proposal(s), see http:// osdc.com.au/papers/cfp.html If you have any questions or require assistance with your submission, please don't hesitate to ask! We recognise the increasing importance of Open Source in providing a medium for collaboration between individuals, researchers, business and government. In recognition of this, we offer optional peer- review for those members of our community who desire it. We are still finalising our review board, in addition to which those requesting peer-review will be asked to contribute reviews for up to three papers. OSDC 2007 Brisbane (Australia) - Key Program Dates: 30 Jun - Initial proposals (short abstract) due 31 Jul - Proposal acceptance 31 Aug - Submission deadline 15 Sep - Peer-review response (optional) 30 Sep - Final version for proceedings 26 Nov - OSDC 2007 Tutorials 27-29 Nov - OSDC 2007 Main Conference! For all information, contacts and updates, see the OSDC conference web site at http://osdc.com.au/ We gratefully acknowledge the following companies for their early commitment in sponsoring OSDC 2007: - Apress (http://apress.com/) - Common Ground (http://commongroundgroup.com/) - Google (http://google.com.au/) - OpenGear (http://opengear.com.au/) Interested in sponsoring also? See http://www.osdc.com.au/sponsors/ opportunities.html === Regards, Arjen. -- Arjen Lentz (mob. +61-438-210 269) http://lentz.com.au/ Organising Committee, Open Source Developers Conference (http:// osdc.com.au/) 2007 Brisbane QLD Australia, November 26-29 - Call for Papers now open! From mary at puzzling.org Fri Jun 15 15:40:26 2007 From: mary at puzzling.org (Mary Gardiner) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 08:40:26 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] linux.conf.au 2008 calling for presentations Message-ID: <20070615224026.GF3671@home.puzzling.org> == linux.conf.au 2008 Call For Presentations == linux.conf.au isn't just a Linux conference. It is a technical conference about Free Software, held annually in Australasia. We invite submissions on any Free Software related subject; from Linux and the BSDs to OpenOffice.org, from networking to audio-visual magic, from deep hacks to Creative Commons. ** Please feel free to forward this email to any group ** ** or individual who you feel might be interested. ** == Important dates == * Submissions open: Friday, June 1 2007 * Submission deadline: Friday, July 20, 2007 * Email notifications from review committee: early September * Conference begins: Monday, January 28 2008 == Presentations being accepted == You can submit a 50 minute talk proposal, or a 2 or 4 hour tutorial proposal: tutorials are interactive and involve more audience participation. All presentations must be related to Free and Open Source Software. == How to submit == Please see http://linux.conf.au/presentations for more information on the types of presentations we're looking for and full details of how to submit a proposal. You can even submit a video pitch! == About linux.conf.au == linux.conf.au (http://linux.conf.au/) is Australia's annual technical conference about Free Software. Fun, informal and seriously technical, linux.conf.au draws together Free and Open Source Software developers from across the world. It will be held from January 28th to February 2nd, 2008 at The University of Melbourne. == About Linux Australia == Linux Australia (http://www.linux.org.au/) is the peak body for Linux User Groups (LUGs) around Australia, and as such represents approximately 5000 Australian Linux users and developers. Linux Australia facilitates the organisation of this international Free Software conference in a different Australasian city each year. From alecclews at gmail.com Fri Jun 15 16:16:13 2007 From: alecclews at gmail.com (Alec Clews) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 09:16:13 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Agile Perl In-Reply-To: <6462CBB658614845A7702E379880769802325437@exhnat2.nsw.hpa> References: <6462CBB658614845A7702E379880769802325437@exhnat2.nsw.hpa> Message-ID: <1181949373.29337.16.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> G'Day I posted a very brief summary about Agile Perl from the Wed meeting on my blog (http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/agile-in-the-perl-world/) and got a very cheeky reply from a Microsofty friend of mine. "I wonder whether they would have said the same if you asked about multisyllabic variable names?" Anyone want to fire back a shot? On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 15:28 +1000, leif.eriksen at hpa.com.au wrote: > I practice TDD all the time, am doing a huge refactoring effort right > now using those principles (though I am still developing my own > best-practice on that front) and I've done pair programming once, on a > very successful project - it is still in use for a major (several $M > client) with precisely one bug attributable to our development. > Unfortunately I wont be there tonight, but if you want to meet > sometime to talk, or talk via phone/skype/irc/whatever then let me > know. > > To my mind TDD is a slower (by about 20-30%), but far more accurate, > way to develop - the slower develpment till you've finished coding is > more than made up for in saved time during integration and acceptance > testing - by orders of magnitude in my opinion. My experience is the > code works exactly the way the spec told you to write it almost > immediately, and your then left with fixing errors in what the spec > told you to do. Which you can charge for, most probably at obscene > rates.... > > L > > > ______________________________________________________________ > From: alecclews at gmail.com [mailto:alecclews at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2007 3:04 PM > To: melbourne-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM > *tonight* > > > > On the subject of talks. > > Does anyone have experience of applying Agile style practices > to Perl programming? e.g. Test Driven Development, > Re-factoring, Pair programming. I'd be interested in hearing > any insights or thoughts. Perhaps a BOF or round table > format? > > On 13/06/07, Jacinta Richardson > wrote: > Just a quick addition. If you are not yet a member > and would like to be, you > can join at the start of the AGM. I believe > membership is $10 (once-only). > Paul will have membership forms available. > > You need to be a member in order to accept a > nomination for a position on the > committee or to vote. Scott will be able to tell us > who has been elected > unopposed to the various positions - based on > nominations from last week - at > the start of the meeting. > > All the best, > > Jacinta > > -- > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta > Richardson | > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training > Australia | > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 > 9354 6001 | > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | > contact at perltraining.com.au | > (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | > www.perltraining.com.au | > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > > > > -- > Alec Clews Melbourne, > Australia. > Jabber: alecclews at jabber.org.au PGPKey ID: > 0x9BBBFC7C > blog:http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/ > ********************************************************************** > IMPORTANT > The contents of this e-mail and its attachments are confidential and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If > you received this e-mail in error, please notify the HPA Postmaster, postmaster at hpa.com.au, > then delete the e-mail. > This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept for the > presence of computer viruses by Ironport. Before opening or using any > attachments, check them for viruses and defects. > Our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. > HPA collects personal information to provide and market our services. For more > information about use, disclosure and access see our Privacy Policy at > www.hpa.com.au > ********************************************************************** -- Alec Clews Melbourne, Australia. Jabber: alecclews at jabber.org.au PGPKey ID: 0x9BBBFC7C blog:http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/ From melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com Fri Jun 15 17:11:20 2007 From: melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 17:11:20 -0700 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Agile Perl In-Reply-To: <1181949373.29337.16.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> References: <6462CBB658614845A7702E379880769802325437@exhnat2.nsw.hpa> <1181949373.29337.16.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <20070616001120.GA25209@joshheumann.com> > "I wonder whether they would have said the same if you asked about > multisyllabic variable names?" > > Anyone want to fire back a shot? "doll-ar-un-der-score" That's five syllables right there, all in two convenient characters! There's nothing special about perl that a programmer has to make single-character variable names. If that's the only perl someone's seen, they're just dealing with poorly written code. As a smalltalk professor friend of mine says: DNTABV8. J From stephen at sydney.pm.org Fri Jun 15 17:25:51 2007 From: stephen at sydney.pm.org (Stephen Steneker) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:25:51 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Agile Perl In-Reply-To: <1181949373.29337.16.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> References: <6462CBB658614845A7702E379880769802325437@exhnat2.nsw.hpa> <1181949373.29337.16.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: > Anyone want to fire back a shot? Hi Alec, Posted a short comment on your blog .. I think the "agile" practices you mention (testing, refactoring, integration) are really just sane prerequisites for any large (or serious) modern software project. eg. you can't know something works without testing .. can't refactor without having test cases .. and really need mock objects to be able to create some good test cases. Wouldn't say these are all easy tasks (particularly depending on the application design), but the challenges are not unique to perl and there is an evolving set of tools available. That said, many software projects are not sane .. so it's encouraging if most folks at the melbourne.pm meeting said "yes, we do that" rather than "great idea, we'd love to try". Perl actually lends itself well to agile development in terms of supporting short iterations with delivery of working software. Code components can easily be packaged up into modules for isolated testing and reuse. There are much more contentious agile practices like pair programming or the Planning Game which can be difficult to implement without proper support .. but these are process issues, not language specific. In regards to your friend's cheeky comment on monosyllabic variable names .. cryptic programmers are compatible with any language ;-). Cheers, Stephen From alecclews at gmail.com Fri Jun 15 17:30:33 2007 From: alecclews at gmail.com (Alec Clews) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:30:33 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Agile Perl In-Reply-To: <1181949373.29337.16.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> References: <6462CBB658614845A7702E379880769802325437@exhnat2.nsw.hpa> <1181949373.29337.16.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <1181953833.29337.19.camel@tardis.vic.optushome.com.au> Much to my suprise there is an XP Perl group at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeperl/ and an online book at http://www.extremeperl.org/bk/home (I've also added the information to Perl.net.au) On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 09:16 +1000, Alec Clews wrote: > G'Day > > I posted a very brief summary about Agile Perl from the Wed meeting on > my blog > > (http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/agile-in-the-perl-world/) > > and got a very cheeky reply from a Microsofty friend of mine. > > "I wonder whether they would have said the same if you asked about > multisyllabic variable names?" > > Anyone want to fire back a shot? > > > On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 15:28 +1000, leif.eriksen at hpa.com.au wrote: > > I practice TDD all the time, am doing a huge refactoring effort right > > now using those principles (though I am still developing my own > > best-practice on that front) and I've done pair programming once, on a > > very successful project - it is still in use for a major (several $M > > client) with precisely one bug attributable to our development. > > Unfortunately I wont be there tonight, but if you want to meet > > sometime to talk, or talk via phone/skype/irc/whatever then let me > > know. > > > > To my mind TDD is a slower (by about 20-30%), but far more accurate, > > way to develop - the slower develpment till you've finished coding is > > more than made up for in saved time during integration and acceptance > > testing - by orders of magnitude in my opinion. My experience is the > > code works exactly the way the spec told you to write it almost > > immediately, and your then left with fixing errors in what the spec > > told you to do. Which you can charge for, most probably at obscene > > rates.... > > > > L > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > From: alecclews at gmail.com [mailto:alecclews at gmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2007 3:04 PM > > To: melbourne-pm at pm.org > > Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers AGM > > *tonight* > > > > > > > > On the subject of talks. > > > > Does anyone have experience of applying Agile style practices > > to Perl programming? e.g. Test Driven Development, > > Re-factoring, Pair programming. I'd be interested in hearing > > any insights or thoughts. Perhaps a BOF or round table > > format? > > > > On 13/06/07, Jacinta Richardson > > wrote: > > Just a quick addition. If you are not yet a member > > and would like to be, you > > can join at the start of the AGM. I believe > > membership is $10 (once-only). > > Paul will have membership forms available. > > > > You need to be a member in order to accept a > > nomination for a position on the > > committee or to vote. Scott will be able to tell us > > who has been elected > > unopposed to the various positions - based on > > nominations from last week - at > > the start of the meeting. > > > > All the best, > > > > Jacinta > > > > -- > > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta > > Richardson | > > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training > > Australia | > > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 > > 9354 6001 | > > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | > > contact at perltraining.com.au | > > (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | > > www.perltraining.com.au | > > _______________________________________________ > > Melbourne-pm mailing list > > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > > > > > > > > -- > > Alec Clews Melbourne, > > Australia. > > Jabber: alecclews at jabber.org.au PGPKey ID: > > 0x9BBBFC7C > > blog:http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/ > > ********************************************************************** > > IMPORTANT > > The contents of this e-mail and its attachments are confidential and intended > > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If > > you received this e-mail in error, please notify the HPA Postmaster, postmaster at hpa.com.au, > > then delete the e-mail. > > This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept for the > > presence of computer viruses by Ironport. Before opening or using any > > attachments, check them for viruses and defects. > > Our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. > > HPA collects personal information to provide and market our services. For more > > information about use, disclosure and access see our Privacy Policy at > > www.hpa.com.au > > ********************************************************************** -- Alec Clews Melbourne, Australia. Jabber: alecclews at jabber.org.au PGPKey ID: 0x9BBBFC7C blog:http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/ From jarich at perltraining.com.au Tue Jun 26 23:58:27 2007 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:58:27 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Programming Perl course in Melbourne: 7th - 10th August Message-ID: <46820A93.5020606@perltraining.com.au> Most of you will already know Perl already, but I'd like to encourage you to tell your colleagues about our course. If you refer someone to us we'll give you a free book as a sign of our appreciation. If the attendee mentions Melbourne Perl Mongers, they'll also get a 5% discount. Next Programming Perl course ============================ http://perltraining.com.au/bookings/Melbourne.html Early bird: 9th July 2007 Course dates: 7th - 10th August 2007 Our next Programming Perl course is set to run in Melbourne at the start of August. This course covers Perl's fundamentals to give an existing programmer sufficient knowledge of Perl to work on most projects. Specifically it covers: * Perl's variable types: scalars, arrays, hashes * Operators and functions * Conditional and looping structures * Subroutines * Regular expressions * References and complex data structures * Writing and using modules (libraries) * Perl objects * File and directory interaction, including writing and reading files * System interaction and security issues Melbourne Perl Monger Discount ============================== Mention Melbourne Perl Mongers to receive a discount of 5% on your Programming Perl course booking. Early Bird Special ================== Book on this course before 9th of July and receive a free book. See our list at: http://perltraining.com.au/books/ for a list of available books. Group discount ============== Make a single booking for three or more people on the same course and receive an additional 5% discount per person. Referral bonuses ================ Refer your friends and colleagues to us, and get a free book for each booking mentioning you, made before the early bird date. Books can be selected from our list at: http://perltraining.com.au/books.html From wjmoore at gmail.com Wed Jun 27 17:01:57 2007 From: wjmoore at gmail.com (Wesley Moore) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:01:57 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Command line argument processing with validation Message-ID: <664f64be0706271701g63f36763i7dc85f5111b52ec0@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, In the system I work on we frequently create scripts to process a file from one format into another. All these scripts typically start off with something like: GetOptions( 'd|data_date=s' => \( my $DATA_DATE = undef ), 'y|dict_root=s' => \( my $DICT_ROOT = undef ), 'i|input=s' => \( my $INPUTDIR = undef ), 'o|output=s' => \( my $OUTPUT = undef ), 'v|verbose' => \( my $VERBOSE = undef ), 'h|help' => sub { pod2usage(1) }, 'm|man' => sub { pod2usage( -verbose => 2 ) }, ) or pod2usage(2); if ( !defined $INPUT ) { pod2usage('No input dir specified') } if ( !defined $DATA_DATE ) { pod2usage('No -d option specified') } if ( !defined $DICT_ROOT ) { pod2usage('No -y option specified') } if ( !defined $OUTPUT ) { pod2usage('No -o option specified') } I'm wondering if anyone knows of a module like Params::Validate that would all the second step - validating required options were passed to be part of the option specification. Thanks, Wes From wjmoore at gmail.com Wed Jun 27 17:04:11 2007 From: wjmoore at gmail.com (Wesley Moore) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:04:11 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Command line argument processing with validation In-Reply-To: <664f64be0706271701g63f36763i7dc85f5111b52ec0@mail.gmail.com> References: <664f64be0706271701g63f36763i7dc85f5111b52ec0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <664f64be0706271704t6ba3273dy1f7979773c6b79d7@mail.gmail.com> Hmm seems I got lost in there somewhere... The question should read: I'm wondering if anyone knows of a module like Params::Validate that would remove the second step by allowing required options be specified as part of the option specification. Wes On 6/28/07, Wesley Moore wrote: > Hi all, > In the system I work on we frequently create scripts to process a file > from one format into another. All these scripts typically start off > with something like: > > GetOptions( > 'd|data_date=s' => \( my $DATA_DATE = undef ), > 'y|dict_root=s' => \( my $DICT_ROOT = undef ), > 'i|input=s' => \( my $INPUTDIR = undef ), > 'o|output=s' => \( my $OUTPUT = undef ), > 'v|verbose' => \( my $VERBOSE = undef ), > 'h|help' => sub { pod2usage(1) }, > 'm|man' => sub { pod2usage( -verbose => 2 ) }, > ) or pod2usage(2); > > if ( !defined $INPUT ) { pod2usage('No input dir specified') } > if ( !defined $DATA_DATE ) { pod2usage('No -d option specified') } > if ( !defined $DICT_ROOT ) { pod2usage('No -y option specified') } > if ( !defined $OUTPUT ) { pod2usage('No -o option specified') } > > I'm wondering if anyone knows of a module like Params::Validate that > would all the second step - validating required options were passed to > be part of the option specification. > > Thanks, > Wes > From simon at unisolve.com.au Wed Jun 27 17:12:36 2007 From: simon at unisolve.com.au (Simon Taylor) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:12:36 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Command line argument processing with validation In-Reply-To: <664f64be0706271704t6ba3273dy1f7979773c6b79d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <664f64be0706271701g63f36763i7dc85f5111b52ec0@mail.gmail.com> <664f64be0706271704t6ba3273dy1f7979773c6b79d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200706281012.36146.simon@unisolve.com.au> Hello Wesley, > Hmm seems I got lost in there somewhere... The question should read: > > I'm wondering if anyone knows of a module like Params::Validate that > would remove the second step by allowing required options be specified > as part of the option specification. Have a look at Getopt::Declare Regards, Simon -- Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia +61 3 9568 2005 From damian at conway.org Wed Jun 27 17:33:58 2007 From: damian at conway.org (Damian Conway) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:33:58 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Command line argument processing with validation In-Reply-To: <200706281012.36146.simon@unisolve.com.au> References: <664f64be0706271701g63f36763i7dc85f5111b52ec0@mail.gmail.com> <664f64be0706271704t6ba3273dy1f7979773c6b79d7@mail.gmail.com> <200706281012.36146.simon@unisolve.com.au> Message-ID: <832f158a0706271733y2fa459a0mb21280327dd4fa13@mail.gmail.com> Simon Taylor wrote: > Have a look at Getopt::Declare Or, better still: Getopt::Euclid Damian From wjmoore at gmail.com Thu Jun 28 00:16:07 2007 From: wjmoore at gmail.com (Wesley Moore) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:16:07 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Command line argument processing with validation In-Reply-To: <832f158a0706271733y2fa459a0mb21280327dd4fa13@mail.gmail.com> References: <664f64be0706271701g63f36763i7dc85f5111b52ec0@mail.gmail.com> <664f64be0706271704t6ba3273dy1f7979773c6b79d7@mail.gmail.com> <200706281012.36146.simon@unisolve.com.au> <832f158a0706271733y2fa459a0mb21280327dd4fa13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <664f64be0706280016q2065162bw44db38984fb9a1e4@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the suggestions. Damian, I've checked out Getopt::Euclid and for the most part it does exactly what we want with two exceptions, one we can work around and one we can't. Firstly I want to confirm that its not possible to supply alternate names for the same argument that do have the same prefix, for example we use d|data_data and y|dict_root with Getopt::Long. This one can be worked around though. The second is it exits with zero status even when the arg list is bad. This is a problem because we run under an automated scheduler that needs to halt processing if anything fails and in this case it would not be able to detect the failure. A colleague noticed this is marked as fixed in next release in bug #26206[1], any ETA on that release? Many thanks, Wes [1] http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=26206 On 6/28/07, Damian Conway wrote: > Simon Taylor wrote: > > > Have a look at Getopt::Declare > > Or, better still: Getopt::Euclid > > Damian > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > From ankur at perl.org.in Thu Jun 28 05:28:02 2007 From: ankur at perl.org.in (ankur dave) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:58:02 +0530 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] need help for one kind of script Message-ID: hello I need one script which will give me the last updated file from the specified directory. My problem is let say I am working on /var/www/test/ and in this we have some 5 other folders and so many perl and PHP files. now I will update all the files but at the end of the day I want to know what are the files I have updated. can I have that kind of solution. if you find any link in shell or perl or php let me know. may be dolution is avail in one simple shell script but I do not know or ?? some thing else :) thnx. ankur -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/melbourne-pm/attachments/20070628/260b362c/attachment.html From cas at taz.net.au Thu Jun 28 06:29:18 2007 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:29:18 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] need help for one kind of script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070628132918.GA7200@taz.net.au> On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 05:58:02PM +0530, ankur dave wrote: > I need one script which will give me the last updated file from the > specified directory. > My problem is let say I am working on /var/www/test/ and in this we have > some 5 other folders and so many perl and PHP files. > now I will update all the files but at the end of the day I want to know > what are the files I have updated. do you want the last updated file in a directory tree (no matter how old it is), or the file(s) updated today (i.e within the last 24 hours)? if the latter, then: find /var/www/test -type f -a -mtime 0 or find /var/www/test -type f -a -daystart -mtime 0 (for files modified since the start of the day) see the man page for find(1) for more details. the former could be done(*) with something like: cd /var/www/test ; find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 ls -lrt | tail -1 (*) for a very slack value of "done". i.e. only if the output of find fits onto one command-line for xargs - which is why the one-liner changes directory and searches ".", to make the output smaller. if you have thousands of files or many reallystupidlyveryunfeasiblylongfilenames under /var/www/test, you'd need a better script :) craig -- craig sanders From andrewcreer at fastmail.fm Thu Jun 28 17:10:44 2007 From: andrewcreer at fastmail.fm (andrewcreer at fastmail.fm) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:10:44 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] need help for one kind of script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070629001043.GA26332@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 05:58:02PM +0530, ankur dave wrote: > hello > > I need one script which will give me the last updated file from the > specified directory. > My problem is let say I am working on /var/www/test/ and in this we have > some 5 other folders and so many perl and PHP files. > now I will update all the files but at the end of the day I want to know > what are the files I have updated. > > can I have that kind of solution. > if you find any link in shell or perl or php let me know. > > may be dolution is avail in one simple shell script but I do not know or > ?? some thing else :) I use find . -printf '%T@\t' -ls |sort -nr which prints the modified date in epoch seconds for each file in a tree, and pipes through a numerical sort in reverse order. Can be combined with Craig's ideas for limiting to the previous 24 hours. > > thnx. > ankur > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- Andrew Creer Phone + 61 3 9689 5299 Systems Developer Fax + 61 3 9689 5399 Horizon Research Corporation From jarich at perltraining.com.au Thu Jun 28 20:03:46 2007 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:03:46 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] need help for one kind of script In-Reply-To: <20070629001043.GA26332@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070629001043.GA26332@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46847692.6070402@perltraining.com.au> andrewcreer at fastmail.fm wrote: > I use > find . -printf '%T@\t' -ls |sort -nr > > which prints the modified date in epoch seconds for each > file in a tree, and pipes through a numerical sort in > reverse order. Can be combined with Craig's ideas for > limiting to the previous 24 hours. I just use: ls -ltr and just look up to where my changes for today start, but that's because I never learned find. :) J From cas at taz.net.au Fri Jun 29 17:18:32 2007 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 10:18:32 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] need help for one kind of script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070630001832.GB7200@taz.net.au> On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 05:58:02PM +0530, ankur dave wrote: > I need one script which will give me the last updated file from the > specified directory. > My problem is let say I am working on /var/www/test/ and in this we have > some 5 other folders and so many perl and PHP files. > now I will update all the files but at the end of the day I want to know > what are the files I have updated. i was just reading this again and realised that your best option is to set up a subversion (or other revision-control system) repository and check in the entire directory tree after each session of editing. this will give you not only a list of recently edited files, but also allow you to get a diff of the exact changes made, and even a complete history of all changes made to all files since you started using svn. you can even do neat things like seeing the differences between ANY two versions of a file or set of files (e.g. between the current version and five versions ago, or between version 1.41 and version 1.58) and if you realise you made a mistake, you can revert to any previous version of a file or set of files. it takes a little discipline to use (but is very easy once you get into the habit) and is very much worth the small investment in time and effort. you can find subversion at http://subversion.tigris.org/, and it is packaged for most (all, probably) linux distributions. given your /var/www directory, i'd guess that you're using debian or one of the debian derivatives like ubuntu. craig -- craig sanders A clever prophet makes sure of the event first.