From agray at netconnect.com.au Fri Feb 1 00:54:27 2002 From: agray at netconnect.com.au (Andrew Gray) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:30 2004 Subject: md5 hashing References: Message-ID: <002801c1aaed$4aba50e0$f135190a@netconnect.net.au> Scott, Brendan, Thanks for taking the time to explain that, I think I hae my head around it now :) Andrew. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Penrose" To: "Andrew Gray" Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:29 PM Subject: Re: md5 hashing > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 06:09 , Andrew Gray wrote: > > > What I want to do, is remotely control some of the functions on a > > server. To > > this end, I can do it using sockets and loading a client program and > > that > > all works OK, but I think to be secure I need to encrypt the message I > > am > > passing between the servers (call me paranoid, but I dont really trust > > telstra's network that much ....) > > > >> From how I understand it, MD5 encryption lets you hash a message with a > > given key, and then using the same key, unencrypt the message at the > > other > > end. Is this right? or is it a one way encryption like crypt()? > > > > Having read the synopsis from www.cpan.org I can see how to hash the > > message > > given a key string, but nowhere can I see how to unencrypt at the other > > end > > of the transmission. > > > > OR are there any other two way encryption modules around that I could > > use > > simply. > > Personally I prefer to do it using SSL, that way the encoding is > standard and well understood. > > However that can be a lot of work, so in some cases what I have done is > to use SSH port forwarding. > > So what you do is on your client side (where your perl script runs) > connect (sockets) to localhost, some port number you choose. > SSH mean time has been setup (using RSA keys etc) by the system admin - > separately controlled from your perl code. > on connecting to localhost:someport it forward it to > remotehost:localport. > > You also need to make sure that your server is setup with the daemon > (the server script) so that it only accepts connections from localhost > (bind to localhost only) - and I also recommend restricting that port > even more with ip tables. > > Why this approach. > > 1. My perl code does not have to know anything about security or > encrypting > 2. I can test the code without any encryption. > 3. I am not going to make a crypto mistake - SSH is well proven > technology and checked for security holes all the time. > 4. When updates to how security is done are made you don't have to > update your then legacy perl code. > > One point though - this does not protect your server or client machine > from prying eyes. However having encryption end to end does not really > solve that either because you are going to have the streams unencrypted > in memory anyway. > Scott > - --- > Scott Penrose > Open source and Linux Developer > http://linux.dd.com.au/ > scottp@dd.com.au > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE8WORUDCFCcmAm26YRAvxVAKCbl+SV2WfLS73krw1lZpDQKCetjQCeMDJA > F9eM54KdCZpeuaas9EkvSog= > =OfaC > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > From pjf at perltraining.com.au Sat Feb 9 18:18:35 2002 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Reminder, meeting this Wednesday Message-ID: <20020210111834.B17931@mukc.org.au> G'day Everyone, Just a brief reminder that the next Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting is this Wednesday, the 13th of Feb. Features will include: * "Using Strict" by Paul Fenwick * "Perl and XML" by Scott Penrose * "Perl Redispatch" by Paul Fenwick ...and any other short talks or snippets that people wish to show or tell. :) If I've forgotten anyone's talk, please correct me, the omission was not intentional. The meeting will kick off at 6:30pm at MyInternet House, Blackwood St, North Melbourne. We'll all be up on the top floor. All the best, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20020210/319a5fa6/attachment.bin From scottp at dd.com.au Sat Feb 9 19:57:55 2002 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Reminder, meeting this Wednesday (Perl Mongers) In-Reply-To: <20020210111834.B17931@mukc.org.au> Message-ID: <997842C4-1DC9-11D6-B104-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > The meeting will kick off at 6:30pm at MyInternet House, > Blackwood St, North Melbourne. We'll all be up on the top floor. I know this probably sounds late, but I just wanted to inform you that use of the room has been officially approved. Some quick instructions for new comers. myinternet Level 8 14 Blackwood Street North Melbourne You can't miss the building - it is called "myinternet house" However the doors lock at 5:30, therefore we will have someone on the door from 6pm until 6:45pm. If you arrive before or after this time you can ring me on 8379 2050 or 0417 885 330 - also I always put up a note leaving the details and phone number. The door situation is unfortunately but hasn't presented to much of a problem for LUV meetings, so hopefully won't here either. I usually open the room 30 minutes early - ie: 6 - so that presenters are welcome to come up to 30 minute early to check the environment. The Room. - Big Projector - Linux and Windows Box - Lots of chairs (not sure, but probably a maximum of about 200 people, I will check). - Toilets in the foyer. - (Windows 2000 (I think)) - (Linux - Debian 3.0 - Woody, kept up to date). If you need stuff installed (eg: a programming language, drivers, libraries etc) it is a good idea to email me before the even so I can make sure it is up to date - but we have a fast link so it does not usually take long. You can bring a portable, but always keep a backup plan, you are not guaranteed to get a video connection. Although you can get a network connection from a portable it is undesirable - so if you need internet access - plan to use our existing workstation. Scott - --- Scott Penrose Open source and Linux Developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8ZdOpDCFCcmAm26YRAp2FAJ9HRb9WQaETfiXSO5MztDIpNfUHUgCeNtE5 WGy2+WcpFgwNpR99aWbqKxs= =iMBM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Emailcenter at 163.com Mon Feb 11 05:08:22 2002 From: Emailcenter at 163.com (H. Mart¨ªnez) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Como vender tu producto o servicio en Internet Message-ID: <200202111111.g1BBBfZ10861@mail.pm.org> Mi nombre es Horacio Martinez, representante de Marketing y Servicios Online S.L Va a iniciar proximamente un negocio en Internet? Le interesar??a multiplicar por 8 las ventas en su web? (demostrable con un ejemplo) Va a migrar su actual negocio a Internet? En http://www.franciscosegura.com/?hop=hmark2.fsegura le mostramos: - Como conseguir PRIMERAS POSICIONES en los buscadores, (demostrado, puede comprobarlo en un minuto) - Como dise?ar su web para que venda sola. - Cuales son las TRES ESTRATEGIAS para que su web sea rentable - Como tiene que ser el proceso de venta para que sea EFECTIVO - EJEMPLOS REALES (Estudios de caso) realizados con los resultados, y herramientas empleadas. 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Remove send email to: borrar1213@yahoo.com subject: borrar From pjf at perltraining.com.au Tue Feb 12 18:22:40 2002 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Perl Mongers meeting TONIGHT Message-ID: <20020213112240.B26979@mukc.org.au> G'day Everyone, Just a quick reminder that there is a Perl Monger meeting TONIGHT (Wednesday 13th): Features will include: * "Using Strict" by Paul Fenwick * "Perl and XML" by Scott Penrose * "Perl Redispatch" by Paul Fenwick ...and any other short talks or snippets that people wish to show or tell. :) If I've forgotten anyone's talk, please correct me, the omission was not intentional. The meeting will kick off at 6:30pm at MyInternet House, Blackwood St, North Melbourne. We'll all be up on the top floor. All the best, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20020213/9c32740c/attachment.bin From daniel at landmarksoftware.com.au Tue Feb 12 18:36:46 2002 From: daniel at landmarksoftware.com.au (Daniel Walmsley) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Perl Mongers meeting TONIGHT Message-ID: <10328A423AC2D311AE5B0008C70FE5642186B3@LANDNT> Hi, I'm new on the list. Dang, looks like this meeting is a good 'un. I wish I could come. Got Dinner with parents. A bit about me: I've been programming in Perl for a week, writing an app that compiles XML application specs into any language... you haven't lived 'til you've seen cell-based Cobol guis resize themselves like XUL in Mozilla... whee! I can't believe people are paying me to do this. It would be really nice to pick up some tips, if anyone else out there is doing similar stuff (by the sounds of it you are). Good luck with the presentation Scott :) Cheers, Dan Walmsley (a.k.a. dan'gerous, my wanky alias) -----Original Message----- From: Paul Fenwick [mailto:pjf@perltraining.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2002 11:23 AM To: Melbourne Perl Mongers Subject: Perl Mongers meeting TONIGHT G'day Everyone, Just a quick reminder that there is a Perl Monger meeting TONIGHT (Wednesday 13th): Features will include: * "Using Strict" by Paul Fenwick * "Perl and XML" by Scott Penrose * "Perl Redispatch" by Paul Fenwick ...and any other short talks or snippets that people wish to show or tell. :) If I've forgotten anyone's talk, please correct me, the omission was not intentional. The meeting will kick off at 6:30pm at MyInternet House, Blackwood St, North Melbourne. We'll all be up on the top floor. All the best, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From jh_lists at fastmail.fm Tue Feb 12 19:28:42 2002 From: jh_lists at fastmail.fm (Jeremy Howard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Perl Mongers meeting TONIGHT References: <10328A423AC2D311AE5B0008C70FE5642186B3@LANDNT> Message-ID: <015d01c1b42d$c8468f80$0101460a@optimaldecisions.com> > It would be really nice to pick up some tips, if anyone else out there is > doing similar stuff (by the sounds of it you are). > Tip #1: Purchase 'OO Perl' by Damian Conway Tip #2: Read it. Tip #3: Spend a day browsing the CPAN module listing and learn what's there (Hint: *Everything* is there!) :-) From scottp at dd.com.au Wed Feb 13 16:30:10 2002 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Last nights talks - XML Modules Message-ID: <3DB8BEB4-20D1-11D6-937D-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul I am sure will make his talks available soon... Although not much use on its own, I have put up my slides for XML http://linux.dd.com.au/narrative/pm/xml/ Scott - --- Scott Penrose Open source and Linux Developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8auj4DCFCcmAm26YRAqXjAKCyzlyMfpxEItQiTVZtQeaqBYm/FwCeK3Dc A5BIkiHMDwxavAVjRQX0fe8= =y0eE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Emailcenter at 163.com Mon Feb 18 02:39:16 2002 From: Emailcenter at 163.com (L.Mi) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: To Promote Your Business Message-ID: <20020218083928.193778EF9@mail2.panix.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20020218/eb4b4baa/attachment.htm From pjf at perltraining.com.au Tue Feb 19 23:56:59 2002 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Notes from the talks Message-ID: <20020220165659.I3177@mukc.org.au> G'day everyone, I meant to spruce up the appearance of the notes from the last meeting for presentation on the web (including conversion to HTML), but I suspect it's better to make available the slides I used now, and worry about nifty HTML pages when I have a moment of free time. So, groove on over to http://perltraining.com.au/talks/ to find the copy of the notes I used last meeting. These *will* be turned into an easy-to-navigate HTML form (hooray for latex2html), and *will* be placed on the Melb.pm webpage when we can actually do something with the webpage. :) Keep mongering, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20020220/c002bd1f/attachment.bin From scottp at dd.com.au Sat Feb 23 17:35:58 2002 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module Message-ID: <16BFB666-28B6-11D6-8D60-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey Dudes Perl has a nice facility for storing data in a module by using __DATA__ etc. However I have a standard data format that is used by multiple systems (including a pending Java version etc) so putting it in DATA is not a really good idea. Anyway my problem is this. I have a file call regulator.dat (which can have another name). Where should I put it in the file system so that my perl module can find it. Remember that perl modules can be installed in multiple operating systems including Windows and Mac so putting it in /var/X, or /usr/lib/X or /etc/X is not a good idea necessarily. Is there no answer to this, damn it ? Scott - --- Scott Penrose Open source and Linux Developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8eCdjDCFCcmAm26YRApKVAJ4qgURuXkrviBa/opNBe0DMDWwvSQCfX+ZF c0n9pcr+Aw26t9aFomU4AZQ= =ye7y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jh_lists at fastmail.fm Sat Feb 23 18:19:39 2002 From: jh_lists at fastmail.fm (Jeremy Howard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module References: <16BFB666-28B6-11D6-8D60-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> Message-ID: <00d701c1bcc8$f4c9ee00$0800a8c0@samantha> Scott Penrose wrote: > However I have a standard data format that is used by multiple systems > (including a pending Java version etc) so putting it in DATA is not a > really good idea. > Why does the data format stop you from storing it in DATA? DATA is a location, not a format--you can store even binary formats there particularly if you base64 encode it first. Have you looked at Inline::File? That module takes you beyond just plain old DATA sections to creating any named section you like, and treating it just like a real file. If you need to find a real path to use because you really can't use DATA, use File::Spec to help you create non OS-specific path names. From scottp at dd.com.au Sat Feb 23 19:24:49 2002 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module In-Reply-To: <00d701c1bcc8$f4c9ee00$0800a8c0@samantha> Message-ID: <4BCE88D6-28C5-11D6-8D60-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, February 24, 2002, at 11:19 , Jeremy Howard wrote: > Scott Penrose wrote: >> However I have a standard data format that is used by multiple systems >> (including a pending Java version etc) so putting it in DATA is not a >> really good idea. >> > Why does the data format stop you from storing it in DATA? DATA is a > location, not a format--you can store even binary formats there > particularly > if you base64 encode it first. Sorry I have not explained myself then. Of course there is nothing stopping me storing in the DATA section. My point is the opposite. I am REQUIRED to store the data in a separate every day data format, not in the module directly. If I do there are a set of major disadvantages 1) The file can't be easily shared with other programs - eg: a Python module 2) The data file can't be edited or maintained independently. 3) The data file (which is currently a separate file) would have to be inserted into the perl module, and the perl module updated (version and uploaded to cpan etc) each time the data file changes - which is not a good idea. > Have you looked at Inline::File? That module takes you beyond just > plain old > DATA sections to creating any named section you like, and treating it > just > like a real file. > > If you need to find a real path to use because you really can't use > DATA, > use File::Spec to help you create non OS-specific path names. Yes I think this is the approach I will have to take. It just isn't so neat. This problem is not just with data files either. Some programs require other 'helpers'. A simple example is a perl module which uses a set of existing images to generate another image. These images must already exist somewhere. The standard in unix would be to put them in the application directory, usually something like /usr/lib/XYZ/images/* or /usr/share/XYZ/images/* (which would be the better debian and standard directory structure style). However this is not portable to Windows, MacOS or probably others. Storing resources (fonts, images, data files, templates, schemas, style sheets etc) should not be forced to be installed in the data section of perl modules. I have researched a few other tools which heavily use resource files (eg: Template toolkit) and it seems the only solution is to ask for the location (with some suggestions with File::Spec) during 'make Makefile.PL'. Perhaps we should create a standard for this, rather than all different (eg: Template toolkit generally stores files in /usr/local/tt2/). If we had a standard library to use we could not only automate the questions during Makefile.PL but also have a standard way to lookup what the locations stored are, a bit like you can look at what modules from cpan are installed. Scott - --- Scott Penrose Open source and Linux Developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8eEDmDCFCcmAm26YRAq6rAKCxbBcLYgvtw3JKmhD2o+6CJgJqugCghC9Q KRJWJvAboby1zk20Qx3iN7E= =j7ls -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gcross at alphalink.com.au Sun Feb 24 03:01:15 2002 From: gcross at alphalink.com.au (Graeme Cross) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Perl talk at the next LUV Programmers SIG meeting (this Tuesday) Message-ID: <200202240901.g1O917Z12704@mail2.alphalink.com.au> Hi Perl Mongers. You are more than welcome to the next LUV Programmers SIG meeting, which is this Tuesday night, and is on Web Application Programming with Perl. Details below. Cheers Graeme ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The next LUV Programmers SIG meeting is on this Tuesday, February 26. The topic will be "Web Application Programming with Perl" by David Dick. I will be discussing my experiences with constructing applications with a html/browser front end, an apache/mod_perl application server and a postgreSQL backend.?I will be focusing on the advantages/disadvantages of such an approach and various techniques/optimisations that I have found useful. Everyone is welcome to the meeting, which is at: 7pm, Tuesday February 26 MyInternet Level 8, Blackwood House 14-20 Blackwood Street, North Melbourne Blackwood Street is the first on the left on Flemington Road, near the Royal Melbourne Hospital. We will be going for dinner afterwards at La Porchetta near the Queen Victoria market. The planned talks for upcoming Programmers SIG meetings are: March 26 - "kbuild: the new kernel build system" by Keith Owens April 23 - "An introduction to Ruby" by Graeme Cross More SIG information can be found at http://programmers.luv.asn.au/ -- Graeme Cross From joshua at roughtrade.net Sun Feb 24 04:05:01 2002 From: joshua at roughtrade.net (Joshua Goodall) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module In-Reply-To: <16BFB666-28B6-11D6-8D60-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> References: <16BFB666-28B6-11D6-8D60-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> Message-ID: <20020224100501.GA25748@roughtrade.net> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 10:35:58AM +1100, Scott Penrose wrote: > Where should I put it in the file system so that my perl module can find > it. Remember that perl modules can be installed in multiple operating > systems including Windows and Mac so putting it in /var/X, or /usr/lib/X > or /etc/X is not a good idea necessarily. > > Is there no answer to this, damn it ? Sure there is, but it's not absolute: put it where the installation platform's *sysadmin* would expect to find it, and make it simple for a packager to vary it. Under a *nix, that usually means a choice between /var, /usr/local/lib and /etc (implying it gets changed by normal runtime, by installation, or by configuration, respectively). Some Unices vary widely; e.g. debian users might want /usr/lib, but under FreeBSD you'd be in /usr/local/libdata; Solaris admins might expect /opt. You'll end up suggesting defaults in Makefile.PL; then when the module is packaged for target OS's by package maintainers, they can override your defaults. Under java, which is effectively a platform in itself, this rule means putting it in the jarfile and specifying that it should be reachable via the classloader, or a similar abstraction thereof. These conventions will please the administrator/installer of your code and avoid violating POLA. Joshua From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Feb 24 04:17:12 2002 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module In-Reply-To: <20020224100501.GA25748@roughtrade.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, February 24, 2002, at 09:05 , Joshua Goodall wrote: > Sure there is, but it's not absolute: put it where the installation > platform's *sysadmin* would expect to find it, and make it simple > for a packager to vary it. Under a *nix, that usually means a choice > between /var, /usr/local/lib and /etc (implying it gets changed by > normal runtime, by installation, or by configuration, respectively). > > Some Unices vary widely; e.g. debian users might want /usr/lib, > but under FreeBSD you'd be in /usr/local/libdata; Solaris admins > might expect /opt. You'll end up suggesting defaults in Makefile.PL; > then when the module is packaged for target OS's by package > maintainers, they can override your defaults. > > Under java, which is effectively a platform in itself, this rule > means putting it in the jarfile and specifying that it should be > reachable via the classloader, or a similar abstraction thereof. This of course implies along with Jeremy's advice that I must have a separate set of data for each of my language installs. Which of course means to me it is a missing feature of perl - one I will have to look at :-) Did you get a chance to look at my other message Josh? There is a difference between normal package install and cpan modules. The theory behind CPAN modules is that they are platform independent. Either CPAN has to understand the concept of resources, or you have to be asked manually / non standard location - ala what CPAN modules do know, which sort of combines CPAN and normal tar installs... Oh well the more I look at this the more I realise there is no solution other than the manual intevention of the installer :-) Scott - --- Scott Penrose Open source and Linux Developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8eL2uDCFCcmAm26YRAmVSAJ9g44SLbLLTaxky57qOgY5r4V5CWgCgkRHn uW8LlN3OdpanRNOG8Fc4gs8= =K31H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jh_lists at fastmail.fm Sun Feb 24 04:36:21 2002 From: jh_lists at fastmail.fm (Jeremy Howard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module References: Message-ID: <00c601c1bd1f$22eae5e0$0101460a@optimaldecisions.com> Scott Penrose wrote: <...> > This of course implies along with Jeremy's advice that I must have a > separate set of data for each of my language installs. > Which of course means to me it is a missing feature of perl - one I will > have to look at :-) > I think you might be right... It would be nice if there were a module that could suggest suitable paths for libs, config files, docs, etc... For instance under Windows you should grab the right paths out of the registry... From joshua at roughtrade.net Sun Feb 24 08:30:12 2002 From: joshua at roughtrade.net (Joshua Goodall) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module In-Reply-To: References: <20020224100501.GA25748@roughtrade.net> Message-ID: <20020224143012.GA26901@roughtrade.net> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 09:17:12PM +1100, Scott Penrose wrote: > Did you get a chance to look at my other message Josh? There is a > difference between normal package install and cpan modules. The theory > behind CPAN modules is that they are platform independent. Either CPAN > has to understand the concept of resources, or you have to be asked > manually / non standard location - ala what CPAN modules do know, which > sort of combines CPAN and normal tar installs... Oh well the more I look > at this the more I realise there is no solution other than the manual > intevention of the installer :-) The FreeBSD Ports/Packages people solved this by introducing BSDPAN which forces CPAN modules to actually mesh with the platform-specific packaging system, registering themselves and so forth. It works by overriding various MakeMaker methods (a nice object-pattern-based solution), and can IIRC be found in FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT. CPAN is very poor as a package management solution, and this kind of technique overcomes its limitations in ways that sysadmins like me (with hundreds of (unfortunately not FreeBSD) boxes to co-manage) find consistent and conducive to administrative harmony; that is, I can then distribute a native binary package to my boxes. Several interesting threads on the topic run from: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=712546+719083+/usr/local/www/db/text/2001/freebsd-ports/20010401.freebsd-ports http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=782648+0+archive/2001/freebsd-ports/20010107.freebsd-ports http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=1253580+1258568+/usr/local/www/db/text/2001/freebsd-ports/20010204.freebsd-ports Incidentally - when I've needed to have configuration data shared between Java & Perl, I've had the default file in the .jarfile (which is usually in the classpath) but been able to override it by prepending (prior to VM startup) the location of an external alternative to the classpath itself; the standard classloader will find the alternative, thus opaquing the default. Non-reusable java classes (e.g. the execution monitor of an application server), however, often ignore this convention and ask for full paths anyway. Cheers, Joshua. From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Feb 24 15:32:07 2002 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module In-Reply-To: <20020224143012.GA26901@roughtrade.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, February 25, 2002, at 01:30 , Joshua Goodall wrote: > The FreeBSD Ports/Packages people solved this by introducing > BSDPAN which forces CPAN modules to actually mesh with the > platform-specific packaging system, registering themselves and so > forth. It works by overriding various MakeMaker methods (a nice > object-pattern-based solution), and can IIRC be found in FreeBSD > 5.0-CURRENT. Actually no it doesn't. As you mentioned above it only replaces the MakeMaker methods. The whole point of what I am talking about here has been missed. It is 'resources' = 'files' that are not handled correctly or at all by MakeMaker - obviously in those cases replacing the methods also does not help. As mentioned, the current systems that deal with this just as the user at install time - which is more standard tar.gz package way of doing things and not a proper package management system, but as you mentioned below CPAN is not a good package manager. > CPAN is very poor as a package management solution, and this kind > of technique overcomes its limitations in ways that sysadmins > like me (with hundreds of (unfortunately not FreeBSD) boxes to > co-manage) find consistent and conducive to administrative harmony; > that is, I can then distribute a native binary package to my boxes. Yes it is. And it does NOT play nicely with others, but that is more how people write modules than the CPAN packaging part. > Several interesting threads on the topic run from: > http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=712546+719083+/usr/local/www/ > db/text/2001/freebsd-ports/20010401.freebsd-ports > http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=782648+0+archive/2001/freebsd-ports/ > 20010107.freebsd-ports > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=1253580+1258568+/usr/local/www/ > db/text/2001/freebsd-ports/20010204.freebsd-ports > > Incidentally - when I've needed to have configuration data shared NOT configuration data. As mentioned - resources. Resources being images, fonts etc. Not configuraiton. > between Java & Perl, I've had the default file in the > .jarfile (which is usually in the classpath) but been able to > override it by prepending (prior to VM startup) the location of an > external alternative to the classpath itself; the standard classloader > will find the alternative, thus opaquing the default. Non-reusable > java classes (e.g. the execution monitor of an application server), > however, often ignore this convention and ask for full paths anyway. Scott - --- Scott Penrose Open source and Linux Developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8eVvcDCFCcmAm26YRAujiAJ4405yJpJk7V6sBwYxaTPnVbdCDvACeIQnM J3M1qwaptD+K+bmfUFz3vsU= =a7p/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From peterm at zeta.org.au Sun Feb 24 18:09:24 2002 From: peterm at zeta.org.au (Peter G. Martin) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: How to store data for a perl module References: <00c601c1bd1f$22eae5e0$0101460a@optimaldecisions.com> Message-ID: <3C7980B4.3040800@zeta.org.au> Jeremy Howard wrote: > Scott Penrose wrote: > <...> > >>This of course implies along with Jeremy's advice that I must have a >>separate set of data for each of my language installs. >>Which of course means to me it is a missing feature of perl - one I will >>have to look at :-) >> >> > I think you might be right... It would be nice if there were a module that > could suggest suitable paths for libs, config files, docs, etc... > > For instance under Windows you should grab the right paths out of the > registry... > > > If you have Perl, you have @INC , regardless of your platform. Why not use it ? From Jeff.W at nominet.org.uk Wed Feb 27 01:37:40 2002 From: Jeff.W at nominet.org.uk (Jeff.W@nominet.org.uk) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:31 2004 Subject: Low cost quality conference calls Message-ID: <1014795666.0664210168@mail.nominet.org.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20020227/4f56bdc6/attachment.htm