From szabgab at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 04:20:11 2010 From: szabgab at gmail.com (Gabor Szabo) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 14:20:11 +0300 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens In-Reply-To: <9f91e56b457c094e4e03071b32a0eee8@www.socallinuxexpo.org> References: <9f91e56b457c094e4e03071b32a0eee8@www.socallinuxexpo.org> Message-ID: hi, some of you might know me from my annoying blog posts regarding getting the word out about Perl by giving presentations and setting up Perl booth at non-Perl tech events around the world. I asked the SCALE team about their event in return they sent me a call for papers. Could you please help me understand how is this event? Has anyone from the local Perl mongers ever attended it earlier? If so could you tell me/us about it? It size. What kind of content do they have etc? regards Gabor http://szabgab.com/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: SCALE Team Date: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:52 AM Subject: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens To: szabgab at gmail.com [Media: For media contact information, see bottom of this announcement.] SCALE ANNOUNCEMENT: Call for Papers for Southern California Linux Expo 9x opens September 1st LOS ANGELES ? Organizers of the Southern California Linux Expo 9x have announced that the Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens Wednesday, Sept. 1, with five speaker tracks. With the continued growth of Open Source software in business, SCALE will address the need for system management knowledge by adding a speaker track focused on system administration. ?Combined with the two specialized tracks -- Beginners and Developers -- and the two general interest tracks, SCALE 9x will have content for every attendee. ?With a larger show and more opportunities for speakers, we?re looking for a cross-section of speakers that will coincide with the wide range of attendees expected for SCALE 9X,? said Shyam Kapadia, who chairs the SCALE speakers committee. Proposal abstracts are reviewed by a committee and are evaluated solely on merit. The closing date for the call for papers is Dec. 13, 2010, and organizers ask that the submission dates be strictly honored in order to provide the committee enough time to choose the best proposals. SCALE 9X will also ?host tutorial sessions under a separate track. Those submitting presentations are asked to mention if the presentation is appropriate for a lab in the proposal. Technical set up ? including a microphone, overhead projector and a laptop running Linux ? can be available, but presentations must be done in a non-proprietary format. For more information on submitting a paper, visit http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/blog/scale-9x-call-papers SCALE 9X runs from Feb. 25-27, 2011, at the Hilton Los Angeles Airport hotel. For more information on SCALE 9X, visit http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/ Important Dates Sept. 1, 2010: CFP Opens Dec. 13, 2010: Deadline for abstracts/proposals submissions Dec. 27, 2010: Last date for notification of acceptance Feb. 25, 2011: Conference starts MEDIA: For media inquiries, contact Larry Cafiero at larry at socallinuxexpo.org or by phone at 831-335-7303 From ralf at r.mooo.com Fri Sep 3 07:18:24 2010 From: ralf at r.mooo.com (Ralf Pieper) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 07:18:24 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens In-Reply-To: References: <9f91e56b457c094e4e03071b32a0eee8@www.socallinuxexpo.org>

Message-ID: <081CE5A1-717E-4925-8874-14BBA73C383F@r.mooo.com> I would ask Randal if he wants to give a talk at SCALE9X, I think that he will probably be there and would make a great speaker. However, we can have more then one talk, so if someone wants to do an intro to Perl talk or tutorial, I am sure that SCALE will consider it for a time slot. Heck, you might even pitch a Perl track to SCALE on say Friday. Ralf Pieper ralf at r.mooo.com On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:08 AM, Gabor Szabo wrote: > Hi Ralf, > > thanks for the input. > > I already sent a message to the SCALE organizers telling them about > the lack of access to the archive. I think that is what triggered their > call for papers being sent to me as well :) But no response so far. > > BTW I'd be happy if we could go back and discuss this on the LosAngeles.pm > mailing list as that will be the biggest source of people giving Perl > presentations and manning a booth. > > regards > Gabor > > On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Ralf Pieper wrote: >> SCALE is about 1500 attendees at a hotel over 3 days. I would suggest >> talks, perhaps manning a BOF or having tutorials. Ask Randal L Schwartz, he >> attends. >> There is an exhibit floor too. Why not check out SCALE8X for an idea of the >> schedule: http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/past-events says Access >> denied, , but it is the biggest open source event in the US, and the >> oldest I know about. BTW I imagine Ohio Linux Fest to be modeled after it. >> I have manned a LiLAX.net booth in the past, given talks at SCALE3X and >> attended 7 of them, great event, and not so expensive, great value. >> Ralf Pieper >> ralf at r.mooo.com >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 4:20 AM, Gabor Szabo wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> some of you might know me from my annoying blog posts regarding >> getting the word out about Perl by giving presentations and setting up Perl >> booth at non-Perl tech events around the world. >> >> I asked the SCALE team about their event in return they sent me a call >> for papers. >> >> Could you please help me understand how is this event? >> Has anyone from the local Perl mongers ever attended it earlier? >> If so could you tell me/us about it? It size. What kind of content do >> they have etc? >> >> regards >> Gabor >> http://szabgab.com/ >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: SCALE Team >> Date: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:52 AM >> Subject: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens >> To: szabgab at gmail.com >> >> >> [Media: For media contact information, see bottom of this announcement.] >> >> SCALE ANNOUNCEMENT: Call for Papers for Southern California Linux Expo >> 9x opens September 1st >> >> LOS ANGELES ? Organizers of the Southern California Linux Expo 9x have >> announced that the Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens Wednesday, Sept. >> 1, with five speaker tracks. >> >> With the continued growth of Open Source software in business, SCALE >> will address the need for system management knowledge by adding a >> speaker track focused on system administration. Combined with the two >> specialized tracks -- Beginners and Developers -- and the two general >> interest tracks, SCALE 9x will have content for every attendee. >> >> ?With a larger show and more opportunities for speakers, we?re looking >> for a cross-section of speakers that will coincide with the wide range >> of attendees expected for SCALE 9X,? said Shyam Kapadia, who chairs >> the SCALE speakers committee. >> >> Proposal abstracts are reviewed by a committee and are evaluated >> solely on merit. The closing date for the call for papers is Dec. 13, >> 2010, and organizers ask that the submission dates be strictly honored >> in order to provide the committee enough time to choose the best >> proposals. >> >> SCALE 9X will also host tutorial sessions under a separate track. >> Those submitting presentations are asked to mention if the >> presentation is appropriate for a lab in the proposal. >> Technical set up ? including a microphone, overhead projector and a >> laptop running Linux ? can be available, but presentations must be >> done in a non-proprietary format. >> >> For more information on submitting a paper, visit >> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/blog/scale-9x-call-papers >> >> SCALE 9X runs from Feb. 25-27, 2011, at the Hilton Los Angeles Airport >> hotel. For more information on SCALE 9X, visit >> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/ >> >> Important Dates >> >> Sept. 1, 2010: CFP Opens >> Dec. 13, 2010: Deadline for abstracts/proposals submissions >> Dec. 27, 2010: Last date for notification of acceptance >> Feb. 25, 2011: Conference starts >> >> MEDIA: For media inquiries, contact Larry Cafiero at >> larry at socallinuxexpo.org or by phone at 831-335-7303 >> _______________________________________________ >> Losangeles-pm mailing list >> Losangeles-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm >> >> From geekhunter at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 07:23:09 2010 From: geekhunter at gmail.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 07:23:09 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens In-Reply-To: References: <9f91e56b457c094e4e03071b32a0eee8@www.socallinuxexpo.org> Message-ID: Gabor, As far as I am concerned, SCALE is the best open-source conference of the year with tremendous local grassroots support. SCALE has provided free booth space to local user groups and I know that the LA.PM has had tables there for a number of years. This is a great venue for getting the word out about Perl BUT I think it would be critical to have a clear message, demonstrations, and evidence of perls continued progress and evolution when compared to other OS language/development platforms for the web, automation, and increasingly for mobile/rich interface platforms. My two cents... On Friday, September 3, 2010, Gabor Szabo wrote: > hi, > > some of you might know me from my annoying blog posts regarding > getting the word out about Perl by giving presentations and setting up Perl > booth at non-Perl tech events around the world. > > I asked the SCALE team about their event in return they sent me a call > for papers. > > Could you please help me understand how is this event? > Has anyone from the local Perl mongers ever attended it earlier? > If so could you tell me/us about it? It size. What kind of content do > they have etc? > > regards > Gabor > http://szabgab.com/ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: SCALE Team > Date: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:52 AM > Subject: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens > To: szabgab at gmail.com > > > [Media: For media contact information, see bottom of this announcement.] > > SCALE ANNOUNCEMENT: Call for Papers for Southern California Linux Expo > 9x opens September 1st > > LOS ANGELES ? Organizers of the Southern California Linux Expo 9x have > announced that the Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens Wednesday, Sept. > 1, with five speaker tracks. > > With the continued growth of Open Source software in business, SCALE > will address the need for system management knowledge by adding a > speaker track focused on system administration. ?Combined with the two > specialized tracks -- Beginners and Developers -- and the two general > interest tracks, SCALE 9x will have content for every attendee. > > ?With a larger show and more opportunities for speakers, we?re looking > for a cross-section of speakers that will coincide with the wide range > of attendees expected for SCALE 9X,? said Shyam Kapadia, who chairs > the SCALE speakers committee. > > Proposal abstracts are reviewed by a committee and are evaluated > solely on merit. The closing date for the call for papers is Dec. 13, > 2010, and organizers ask that the submission dates be strictly honored > in order to provide the committee enough time to choose the best > proposals. > > SCALE 9X will also ?host tutorial sessions under a separate track. > Those submitting presentations are asked to mention if the > presentation is appropriate for a lab in the proposal. > Technical set up ? including a microphone, overhead projector and a > laptop running Linux ? can be available, but presentations must be > done in a non-proprietary format. > > For more information on submitting a paper, visit > http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/blog/scale-9x-call-papers > > SCALE 9X runs from Feb. 25-27, 2011, at the Hilton Los Angeles Airport > hotel. For more information on SCALE 9X, visit > http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/ > > Important Dates > > Sept. 1, 2010: CFP Opens > Dec. 13, 2010: Deadline for abstracts/proposals submissions > Dec. 27, 2010: Last date for notification of acceptance > Feb. 25, 2011: Conference starts > > MEDIA: For media inquiries, contact Larry Cafiero at > larry at socallinuxexpo.org?or by phone at 831-335-7303 > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > -- Regards, Todd From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Sep 3 08:29:45 2010 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 08:29:45 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens In-Reply-To: <081CE5A1-717E-4925-8874-14BBA73C383F@r.mooo.com> (Ralf Pieper's message of "Fri, 3 Sep 2010 07:18:24 -0700") References: <9f91e56b457c094e4e03071b32a0eee8@www.socallinuxexpo.org>

<081CE5A1-717E-4925-8874-14BBA73C383F@r.mooo.com> Message-ID: <86iq2m26c6.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Ralf" == Ralf Pieper writes: Ralf> I would ask Randal if he wants to give a talk at SCALE9X, I think Ralf> that he will probably be there and would make a great speaker. In the last two years, I attended SCALE in my capacities as a LinuxFund board member and as a reporter for FLOSS Weekly. I *could* give a Perl talk too, I suppose. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From agrangaard at rubiconproject.com Fri Sep 3 10:21:51 2010 From: agrangaard at rubiconproject.com (Andrew Grangaard) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 10:21:51 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens In-Reply-To: References: <9f91e56b457c094e4e03071b32a0eee8@www.socallinuxexpo.org>

Message-ID: <4C812EAF.3020501@rubiconproject.com> Thanks for the info Gabor and Todd, It'd be fun to have an LA.pm booth there this year. I've heard it is good conference. I didn't know that we have had tables there in the past. I'll bring this up at the September LA.PM meeting. If anyone wants to come to LA to present we'd love to have you at LA.pm and/or ThousandOaks.pm! Andrew (LA.pm host/wrangler/organizer) On 09/03/2010 07:23 AM, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > Gabor, > > As far as I am concerned, SCALE is the best open-source conference of > the year with tremendous local grassroots support. SCALE has provided > free booth space to local user groups and I know that the LA.PM has > had tables there for a number of years. > > This is a great venue for getting the word out about Perl BUT I think > it would be critical to have a clear message, demonstrations, and > evidence of perls continued progress and evolution when compared to > other OS language/development platforms for the web, automation, and > increasingly for mobile/rich interface platforms. > > My two cents... > > On Friday, September 3, 2010, Gabor Szabo wrote: >> hi, >> >> some of you might know me from my annoying blog posts regarding >> getting the word out about Perl by giving presentations and setting up Perl >> booth at non-Perl tech events around the world. >> >> I asked the SCALE team about their event in return they sent me a call >> for papers. >> >> Could you please help me understand how is this event? >> Has anyone from the local Perl mongers ever attended it earlier? >> If so could you tell me/us about it? It size. What kind of content do >> they have etc? >> >> regards >> Gabor >> http://szabgab.com/ >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: SCALE Team >> Date: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:52 AM >> Subject: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens >> To: szabgab at gmail.com >> >> >> [Media: For media contact information, see bottom of this announcement.] >> >> SCALE ANNOUNCEMENT: Call for Papers for Southern California Linux Expo >> 9x opens September 1st >> >> LOS ANGELES ? Organizers of the Southern California Linux Expo 9x have >> announced that the Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens Wednesday, Sept. >> 1, with five speaker tracks. >> >> With the continued growth of Open Source software in business, SCALE >> will address the need for system management knowledge by adding a >> speaker track focused on system administration. Combined with the two >> specialized tracks -- Beginners and Developers -- and the two general >> interest tracks, SCALE 9x will have content for every attendee. >> >> ?With a larger show and more opportunities for speakers, we?re looking >> for a cross-section of speakers that will coincide with the wide range >> of attendees expected for SCALE 9X,? said Shyam Kapadia, who chairs >> the SCALE speakers committee. >> >> Proposal abstracts are reviewed by a committee and are evaluated >> solely on merit. The closing date for the call for papers is Dec. 13, >> 2010, and organizers ask that the submission dates be strictly honored >> in order to provide the committee enough time to choose the best >> proposals. >> >> SCALE 9X will also host tutorial sessions under a separate track. >> Those submitting presentations are asked to mention if the >> presentation is appropriate for a lab in the proposal. >> Technical set up ? including a microphone, overhead projector and a >> laptop running Linux ? can be available, but presentations must be >> done in a non-proprietary format. >> >> For more information on submitting a paper, visit >> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/blog/scale-9x-call-papers >> >> SCALE 9X runs from Feb. 25-27, 2011, at the Hilton Los Angeles Airport >> hotel. For more information on SCALE 9X, visit >> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/ >> >> Important Dates >> >> Sept. 1, 2010: CFP Opens >> Dec. 13, 2010: Deadline for abstracts/proposals submissions >> Dec. 27, 2010: Last date for notification of acceptance >> Feb. 25, 2011: Conference starts >> >> MEDIA: For media inquiries, contact Larry Cafiero at >> larry at socallinuxexpo.org or by phone at 831-335-7303 >> _______________________________________________ >> Losangeles-pm mailing list >> Losangeles-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm >> > From atsaloli.tech at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 13:12:07 2010 From: atsaloli.tech at gmail.com (Aleksey Tsalolikhin) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:12:07 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: Call for Papers for SCALE 9x opens In-Reply-To: References: <9f91e56b457c094e4e03071b32a0eee8@www.socallinuxexpo.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 4:20 AM, Gabor Szabo wrote: > > Could you please help me understand how is this event? Hey, Gabor. Here is the schedule for this year's SCALE convention: http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/conference-schedule-feb-19-2010.html It was a blast! I had a great time and learned a lot. Best, -at From agrangaard at rubiconproject.com Sun Sep 19 16:03:51 2010 From: agrangaard at rubiconproject.com (Andrew Grangaard) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:03:51 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] LA.pm meeting: Wednesday at 7pm. 2010-09-22 Message-ID: <4C9696D7.8010907@rubiconproject.com> Greetings Mongers! Our September meeting is nearly upon us. I look forward to seeing you on Wednesday. We'll be meeting at our usual place and time: the Rubicon Project from 7-9pm. What: Los Angeles Perl Mongers Meeting When: 7-9pm Date: Wednesday, Sept 22, 2010 Where: The Rubicon Project HQ - 1925 S. Bundy, 90025 Theme: Perl! RSVP: Responses always appreciated. Presentations: 1. Tommy Stanton: App::Git::HomeSync 2. Aran Deltac: 12 CPAN Distros in 12 penta-Minutes more info: http://la.pm.org facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119158178096277#!/event.php?eid=108871655840126&ref=mf -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: 201009-pm-meeting URL: From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Sep 22 11:18:11 2010 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:18:11 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled Message-ID: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). They both said "it's getting *very* hard to find people." Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? Or something else entirely? By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. I'm just trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since I'm also working here for a while. (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From btilly at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 11:52:36 2010 From: btilly at gmail.com (Ben Tilly) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:52:36 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). ?They both said "it's > getting *very* hard to find people." > > Now, I'm really curious. ?Why is this? > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? I believe both. On the demand side, LA has a number of companies that started with Perl, and continued to grow. And also some serial entrepreneurs that keep on creating new companies using Perl. This creates a healthy local demand for Perl folks. On the supply side a lot more people who would have started with Perl a few years back are starting today with PHP, Ruby and/or Python. If you want junior people that isn't an issue - you can just train them. If you want mid-level people a lack of people entering the pipeline is an issue. > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > Or something else entirely? I would add that the Perl community as a whole seems to be greying. The result is that more Perl folks think of themselves as senior. This is highly inconvenient for companies that would like to fill bodies at a lower salary point. > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. ?I'm just > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious > about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since > I'm also working here for a while. I didn't think you were. > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > -- > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From geekhunter at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 12:07:25 2010 From: geekhunter at gmail.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:07:25 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: Randal, I'm glad that you bring this out in the open. As you all know, I'm a recruiter so, well... I live the local job market. Here are my replies to Randal's initial comments... Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? I would say both... employers have not had the budget to open new jobs and now that they do, they're under pressure to justify each opening. This justification doesn't usually equate to just needing more "hands on deck" and instead seem to be more geared toward fixing specific skills or business knowledge gaps (or both). These types of roles have a tendency to be more senior (i.e., management responsibilities or requirements for strong client handling/management) and are linked to specific, unique skill sets. These are, be definition, not jobs that provide opportunities for someone to "grow into." Candidates on the other hand have a tendency to have more generalized skills, a strong conviction in their ability to take on new challenges given the opportunity, etc. I also believe that candidates are actively avoiding becoming a "niche player" in technology when it has been proven in the past that niche skills can be outsourced. There are however exceptions to that rule, especially for obviously very "hot" new technologies (e.g., Flash/Flex, HTML5, Java spring/hibernate expertise, virtualization, cloud computing, mobile app dev, etc.). Which basically means that the jobs that are being offered, are not the jobs that people are necessarily prepared to walk into from day one (or if they are, candidates are not making this obvious). So, yes, this is a supply problem but also a disconnect between management and people looking for work. Schools are not helping the situation because they are clinging to producing engineers who are extreme generalists. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this IF I saw students who knew the foundational knowledge of CS inside-out-and-backward, but I'm not seeing that either. Preparing students for possible employment by providing a single class in web technologies or a token class in mobile/gaming engineering is really not doing the job. Students need a good foundation but they have to also be heavily exposed to real-world frameworks, languages, platforms etc. or it's tough going in this job market for all of the points noted above. You all know I'm a huge fan of open-source and I'm convinced that the OS world can provide an alternative educational track than going the college route. That being said, people looking for work are going to have to make the hard choice to specialize or not to specialize. If you do specialize (which the market would indicate is important) you then have to decide what you're going to specialize in... of course, to add complexity, you'd like to specialize in something that stands a chance of having some job "life" and will not be outsourced relatively soon. It's a moving target out there! Finally, along with missing senior-level candidates, there is also a hole in the availability of associate- and mid-level engineers with these special skill sets. The lack of mid-levels is not really that surprising since employers have not been hiring in recent years and the skill sets they are looking for are mostly learned on the job. If you don't hire associates, you won't have mid- and senior-level candidates in the coming years. Any thoughts on these comments? Does any of this reflect what you have been seeing? As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? I can't give insight into the next two questions because I have not been recruiting for perl talent in years. That being said, I would guess that the demand may have gone up a bit simply because the market is beginning to heat up, but... I would say that the demand for other languages and technologies would be growing at a faster pace (e.g., Java/spring/hibernate as the corporate standard, anything mobile, PHP ever present and growing, all things javascript-like for RIA dev, etc.). I'd love to hear from others specifically about the growth of opportunities in the perl sector. Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? Regards, Todd On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). They both said "it's > getting *very* hard to find people." > > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? > > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > Or something else entirely? > > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. I'm just > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious > about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since > I'm also working here for a while. > > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > -- > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside > discussion > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordan247 at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 12:39:22 2010 From: jordan247 at gmail.com (Jordan Schwartz) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:39:22 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? The demand is for more than just perl slots. i have seen recruiters at the LA Java UG, and at a PHP meetups for months. Also the demand is for more then just programmer / developer types, the UNIX User Association of Socal jobs list , uuasc.org, has been seeing a steady flow of Sysadmin postions, and recruiters at the meetings. Additionally the well attended SoCal Devops meetups are a driven by recruiting. I think its that business need to have an internet presence if they have any chance of being successfull and L.A. is fairly diverse with Aerospace, entertainment, Misc. Tech, etc. There may have been some pent up demand after the financial services / home loan meltdown a few year back that put me on the market and there is enough new business and upgrades to keep the demand for skilled labor where it should be. Jordan On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). ?They both said "it's > getting *very* hard to find people." > > Now, I'm really curious. ?Why is this? > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? > > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > Or something else entirely? > > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. ?I'm just > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious > about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since > I'm also working here for a while. > > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > -- > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From btilly at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 13:07:04 2010 From: btilly at gmail.com (Ben Tilly) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:07:04 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: <7743B3216F93CA4E83EF6F0EC4081C9B77D1DE2616@EXVMBX017-10.exch017.msoutlookonline.net> References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> <7743B3216F93CA4E83EF6F0EC4081C9B77D1DE2616@EXVMBX017-10.exch017.msoutlookonline.net> Message-ID: I'm forwarding this for Felix because his attempt to send it bounced. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Felix Lin Date: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:08 PM Subject: RE: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled To: Ben Tilly hey Ben, I shot a response to the mailing list and Randal and got automatically denied. ?I wonder if my old email address (felix at marclingroup.com) would be the culprit. if you want to post it, please feel free: We have seen a large upswing in demand for both direct hire and consultant personnel over the past 6 months or so across the board, even at higher level positions. The supply is definitely down, from a few reasons - the technology talent that is US born/citizen/green card/perm resident is way down, still stemming from the dot com bust in the early 2000s as well as big fear in being outsourced. ?A lot of major universities BSCS graduation rates dropped over 50% after 2002, as people just got out of technology. There still is a generous supply of non-citizen H1 type personnel, however, the US Government is making it harder and harder for companies to use them on a temporary consulting basis (direct hire is still the same), but companies are tending to shy away from hiring people needing H1 Visas. The next biggest gap is the communication problem - with more companies using an agile based methodology, communication between team members becomes more important, and the communication skills are severely lacking. ?If I had a new career to go with, I'd start a technology focused ESL type class for adults. if you have any questions about this, please let me know, I'd be happy to answer them. Have an OUTSTANDING day! Felix Lin http://www.linkedin.com/in/felixlin Precise . Results . Guaranteed We excel in hard to fill and specialized searches, including direct-hire, contract, contract-to-hire and confidential replacements. ?310-356-8123 x103 (Office) ?310-868-0663 (Fax) ?310-980-4335 (Cell) -----Original Message----- From: losangeles-pm-bounces+felix=marclingroup.com at pm.org [mailto:losangeles-pm-bounces+felix=marclingroup.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Ben Tilly Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 11:53 AM To: Randal L. Schwartz Cc: losangeles-pm at mail.pm.org Subject: Re: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). ?They both said "it's > getting *very* hard to find people." > > Now, I'm really curious. ?Why is this? > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? I believe both. On the demand side, LA has a number of companies that started with Perl, and continued to grow. ?And also some serial entrepreneurs that keep on creating new companies using Perl. ?This creates a healthy local demand for Perl folks. On the supply side a lot more people who would have started with Perl a few years back are starting today with PHP, Ruby and/or Python. ?If you want junior people that isn't an issue - you can just train them. If you want mid-level people a lack of people entering the pipeline is an issue. > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > Or something else entirely? I would add that the Perl community as a whole seems to be greying. The result is that more Perl folks think of themselves as senior. This is highly inconvenient for companies that would like to fill bodies at a lower salary point. > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. ?I'm just > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely > curious about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary > in LA since I'm also working here for a while. I didn't think you were. > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > -- > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 > 0095 > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside > discussion _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > _______________________________________________ Losangeles-pm mailing list Losangeles-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm From geekhunter at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 13:08:46 2010 From: geekhunter at gmail.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:08:46 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: Jordan notes that the demand is clearly not limited to perl and I agree. There is a huge push for hiring that is occurring and you're seeing that at the user groups, job postings, recruiter-sponsored events, etc. The question is... are these jobs being filled? On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Jordan Schwartz wrote: > > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? > > The demand is for more than just perl slots. i have seen > recruiters at the LA Java UG, and at a PHP meetups for months. > > Also the demand is for more then just programmer / developer types, > the UNIX User Association of Socal jobs list , uuasc.org, has been > seeing a steady flow of Sysadmin postions, and recruiters at the meetings. > > Additionally the well attended SoCal Devops meetups are a driven > by recruiting. > > I think its that business need to have an internet presence if they have > any > chance of being successfull and L.A. is fairly diverse with Aerospace, > entertainment, > Misc. Tech, etc. > > There may have been some pent up demand after the financial services / > home loan meltdown > a few year back that put me on the market and there is enough new > business and upgrades to > keep the demand for skilled labor where it should be. > > Jordan > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz > wrote: > > > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). They both said "it's > > getting *very* hard to find people." > > > > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? > > > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? > > > > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > > > Or something else entirely? > > > > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. I'm just > > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious > > about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since > > I'm also working here for a while. > > > > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > > > > -- > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 > 0095 > > > > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside > discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From perl_finder at yahoo.com Wed Sep 22 13:34:33 2010 From: perl_finder at yahoo.com (Mike Bourdon) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <537776.59592.qm@web56404.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Being a?contingency recruiter here in the greater LA area for 26 years, I may have some insight to this. Some of you know me personally. If I?receive?enough of a positive?response, I would be happy to give my 2 cents. Mike Bourdon? --- On Wed, 9/22/10, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: From: Todd Cranston-Cuebas Subject: Re: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled To: "Jordan Schwartz" Cc: "Los Angeles Perl Mongers" Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 1:08 PM Jordan notes that the demand is clearly not limited to perl and I agree. There is a huge push for hiring that is occurring and you're seeing that at the user groups, job postings, recruiter-sponsored events, etc. The question is... are these jobs being filled? On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Jordan Schwartz wrote: > Now, I'm really curious. ?Why is this? The demand is for more than just perl slots. ?i have seen recruiters at the LA Java UG, and at a PHP meetups for months. Also the demand is for more then just programmer / developer types, the UNIX User Association of Socal jobs list , uuasc.org, has been seeing a steady flow of Sysadmin postions, and recruiters at the meetings. Additionally the well attended SoCal Devops meetups are a driven by recruiting. I think its that business need to have an internet presence if they have any chance of being successfull and L.A. is fairly diverse with Aerospace, entertainment, Misc. Tech, etc. There may have been some pent up demand after the financial services / home loan meltdown a few year back that put me on the market and there is enough new business and upgrades to keep the demand for skilled labor where it should be. Jordan On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). ?They both said "it's > getting *very* hard to find people." > > Now, I'm really curious. ?Why is this? > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? > > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > Or something else entirely? > > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. ?I'm just > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious > about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since > I'm also working here for a while. > > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > -- > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > _______________________________________________ Losangeles-pm mailing list Losangeles-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Losangeles-pm mailing list Losangeles-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geekhunter at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 13:42:35 2010 From: geekhunter at gmail.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:42:35 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> <7743B3216F93CA4E83EF6F0EC4081C9B77D1DE2616@EXVMBX017-10.exch017.msoutlookonline.net> Message-ID: <-2834524364460516329@unknownmsgid> I agree with Felix on all counts. The H1 issues are clearly impacting the supply of talent, presentation and communication skills are more important than ever, and the specialization and sub-specialization of required skills furthers the gap between employers and job seekers. You also need to factor in the need for employers to show a bottom line ROI on new hires NOW, not 2 years, 1 year, or even 6 months from now and you get a sense of the pressure on all parties involved with the interview process. Sent from my iPad On Sep 22, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Ben Tilly wrote: > I'm forwarding this for Felix because his attempt to send it bounced. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Felix Lin > Date: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:08 PM > Subject: RE: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled > To: Ben Tilly > > > hey Ben, I shot a response to the mailing list and Randal and got > automatically denied. I wonder if my old email address > (felix at marclingroup.com) would be the culprit. > > if you want to post it, please feel free: > > We have seen a large upswing in demand for both direct hire and > consultant personnel over the past 6 months or so across the board, > even at higher level positions. > > The supply is definitely down, from a few reasons - the technology > talent that is US born/citizen/green card/perm resident is way down, > still stemming from the dot com bust in the early 2000s as well as big > fear in being outsourced. A lot of major universities BSCS graduation > rates dropped over 50% after 2002, as people just got out of > technology. > > There still is a generous supply of non-citizen H1 type personnel, > however, the US Government is making it harder and harder for > companies to use them on a temporary consulting basis (direct hire is > still the same), but companies are tending to shy away from hiring > people needing H1 Visas. > > The next biggest gap is the communication problem - with more > companies using an agile based methodology, communication between team > members becomes more important, and the communication skills are > severely lacking. If I had a new career to go with, I'd start a > technology focused ESL type class for adults. > > if you have any questions about this, please let me know, I'd be happy > to answer them. > > Have an OUTSTANDING day! > > Felix Lin > http://www.linkedin.com/in/felixlin > > Precise . Results . Guaranteed > > We excel in hard to fill and specialized searches, including > direct-hire, contract, contract-to-hire and confidential replacements. > > 310-356-8123 x103 (Office) > 310-868-0663 (Fax) > 310-980-4335 (Cell) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: losangeles-pm-bounces+felix=marclingroup.com at pm.org > [mailto:losangeles-pm-bounces+felix=marclingroup.com at pm.org] On Behalf > Of Ben Tilly > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 11:53 AM > To: Randal L. Schwartz > Cc: losangeles-pm at mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz > wrote: >> >> Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater >> LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl >> hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). They both said "it's >> getting *very* hard to find people." >> >> Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? >> >> Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? > > I believe both. > > On the demand side, LA has a number of companies that started with > Perl, and continued to grow. And also some serial entrepreneurs that > keep on creating new companies using Perl. This creates a healthy > local demand for Perl folks. > > On the supply side a lot more people who would have started with Perl > a few years back are starting today with PHP, Ruby and/or Python. If > you want junior people that isn't an issue - you can just train them. > If you want mid-level people a lack of people entering the pipeline is an issue. > >> As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? >> >> Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? >> >> Or something else entirely? > > I would add that the Perl community as a whole seems to be greying. > The result is that more Perl folks think of themselves as senior. > This is highly inconvenient for companies that would like to fill > bodies at a lower salary point. > >> By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. I'm just >> trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely >> curious about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary >> in LA since I'm also working here for a while. > > I didn't think you were. > >> (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if >> you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) >> >> >> -- >> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 >> 0095 >> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. >> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside >> discussion _______________________________________________ >> Losangeles-pm mailing list >> Losangeles-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm >> > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm From harry at wozniak.org Thu Sep 23 00:46:16 2010 From: harry at wozniak.org (Harry Wozniak) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:46:16 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: <537776.59592.qm@web56404.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <537776.59592.qm@web56404.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I would like to read your two cents. Harry On Sep 22, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Mike Bourdon wrote: > Being a contingency recruiter here in the greater LA area for 26 years, I may have some insight to this. Some of you know me personally. If I receive enough of a positive response, I would be happy to give my 2 cents. > > Mike Bourdon > > --- On Wed, 9/22/10, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > > From: Todd Cranston-Cuebas > Subject: Re: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled > To: "Jordan Schwartz" > Cc: "Los Angeles Perl Mongers" > Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 1:08 PM > > > Jordan notes that the demand is clearly not limited to perl and I agree. There is a huge push for hiring that is occurring and you're seeing that at the user groups, job postings, recruiter-sponsored events, etc. The question is... are these jobs being filled? > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Jordan Schwartz wrote: > > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? > > The demand is for more than just perl slots. i have seen > recruiters at the LA Java UG, and at a PHP meetups for months. > > Also the demand is for more then just programmer / developer types, > the UNIX User Association of Socal jobs list , uuasc.org, has been > seeing a steady flow of Sysadmin postions, and recruiters at the meetings. > > Additionally the well attended SoCal Devops meetups are a driven > by recruiting. > > I think its that business need to have an internet presence if they have any > chance of being successfull and L.A. is fairly diverse with Aerospace, > entertainment, > Misc. Tech, etc. > > There may have been some pent up demand after the financial services / > home loan meltdown > a few year back that put me on the market and there is enough new > business and upgrades to > keep the demand for skilled labor where it should be. > > Jordan > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz > wrote: > > > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). They both said "it's > > getting *very* hard to find people." > > > > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? > > > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? > > > > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > > > Or something else entirely? > > > > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. I'm just > > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious > > about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since > > I'm also working here for a while. > > > > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > > > > -- > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > > > > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josh at mediatemple.net Thu Sep 23 01:18:35 2010 From: josh at mediatemple.net (Joshua Barratt) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 01:18:35 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Followup blog post from this evening's meeting: testing command-running code Message-ID: Hey all, It was nice to meet most of you for the first time tonight. I mentioned the idea of, for perl apps that do system() kinds of things, hooking those calls so you can test them. I wrote up a blog post about the idea, in case it's useful to anyone: http://serialized.net/2010/09/testing-perl-code-that-runs-commands/ The "example" github repo is: http://github.com/jbarratt/Acme-System If anyone knows of a less hacky way to make Data::Section work inside a test, (or an alternative module that works with free-form block names), that would be cool. Josh From tommystanton at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 09:22:12 2010 From: tommystanton at gmail.com (Tommy Stanton) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:22:12 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Presenting in your text editor - "Vroom" and "eslide" Message-ID: Last night I gave my presentation inside of vim. This is made possible with Ingy's CPAN module, "Vroom" [0] [1]. Vroom renders plain text files that are then loaded as buffers inside of vim. An example of my presentation source code is in a tarball [2]. My little bit of Vroom customization is available in my home git repository [3]. Randal asked if there is an equivalent for GNU Emacs. I haven't tried it, but I think the equivalent is Jonathan Rockway's "eslide" [4] [5]. You'll notice that an *.esl file looks very similar to a slides.vroom file. -Tommy [0] http://search.cpan.org/dist/Vroom/lib/Vroom.pm [1] Example slides.vroom source from a presentation by Ingy: http://github.com/ingydotnet/acmeism-yapcna2010-talk/blob/master/slides.vroom [2] http://tommystanton.com/presentations/20100908-Tommy_Stanton-App-Git-HomeSync.tar.gz [3] http://tommystanton.com/git/home.git/tree/.vroom/vimrc [4] http://github.com/jrockway/eslide [5] Example eslide source from a presentation by Rockway: http://www.jrock.us/yapc-na-2009-kioku.esl From atsaloli.tech at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 13:49:39 2010 From: atsaloli.tech at gmail.com (Aleksey Tsalolikhin) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:49:39 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: 2010/9/22 Todd Cranston-Cuebas : > You all know I'm a huge fan of open-source and I'm convinced that the > OS world can provide an alternative educational track than going the college route. Hi, Todd. Could you please elaborate on that? I'd like to get a basic education in computer science but am not sure where to start. (I've been a sysadmin for over 12 years.) Best, Aleksey From bluefeet at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 13:53:08 2010 From: bluefeet at gmail.com (Aran Deltac) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:53:08 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: References: <537776.59592.qm@web56404.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: +1 2010/9/23 Harry Wozniak > Yeah, I would like to read your two cents. > > Harry > > > On Sep 22, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Mike Bourdon wrote: > > Being a contingency recruiter here in the greater LA area for 26 years, I > may have some insight to this. Some of you know me personally. If > I receive enough of a positive response, I would be happy to give my 2 > cents. > > Mike Bourdon > > --- On *Wed, 9/22/10, Todd Cranston-Cuebas * wrote: > > > From: Todd Cranston-Cuebas > Subject: Re: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled > To: "Jordan Schwartz" > Cc: "Los Angeles Perl Mongers" > Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 1:08 PM > > > Jordan notes that the demand is clearly not limited to perl and I agree. > There is a huge push for hiring that is occurring and you're seeing that at > the user groups, job postings, recruiter-sponsored events, etc. The question > is... are these jobs being filled? > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Jordan Schwartz wrote: > > > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? > > The demand is for more than just perl slots. i have seen > recruiters at the LA Java UG, and at a PHP meetups for months. > > Also the demand is for more then just programmer / developer types, > the UNIX User Association of Socal jobs list , uuasc.org, has been > seeing a steady flow of Sysadmin postions, and recruiters at the meetings. > > Additionally the well attended SoCal Devops meetups are a driven > by recruiting. > > I think its that business need to have an internet presence if they have > any > chance of being successfull and L.A. is fairly diverse with Aerospace, > entertainment, > Misc. Tech, etc. > > There may have been some pent up demand after the financial services / > home loan meltdown > a few year back that put me on the market and there is enough new > business and upgrades to > keep the demand for skilled labor where it should be. > > Jordan > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Randal L. Schwartz > wrote: > > > > Twice in the last two days, two different organizations in the greater > > LA area approached me to help them find folks to fill mid-level Perl > > hacking slots (varying between IT and webdev). They both said "it's > > getting *very* hard to find people." > > > > Now, I'm really curious. Why is this? > > > > Is it a supply problem, or a demand problem, or both? > > > > As in, are there fewer Perl programmers here but the same demand? > > > > Or the same (or more) Perl programmers here, but even more demand? > > > > Or something else entirely? > > > > By the way... I'm not trying to make a buck out of this. I'm just > > trying to help people who ask me to help, and I'm also genuinely curious > > about the state of hiring in the Perl community, particulary in LA since > > I'm also working here for a while. > > > > (I'll also be sending this message to the other local PM groups, so if > > you see it multiple times, I'm sorry.) > > > > > > -- > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 > 0095 > > > > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside > discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aavram at mac.com Fri Sep 24 14:35:55 2010 From: aavram at mac.com (Avram Aelony) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:35:55 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I may (or may not ) be in the minority, but I would recommend strongly considering reading SICP - a classic text that is available for free online in full:? http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/bookhtml? Though the techniques are illustrated in LISP, it has been said ( and I agree ) that it will improve your skills as a programmer even if you never use a LISP for your programming language of choice. ?Especially now, when functional programming ideas are becoming more doable in perl than ever and newer languages like my current fave, clojure are becoming more popular. Best of all, it will only cost you the time to read it :) those were my two cents... ~A? On Sep 24, 2010, at 01:49 PM, Aleksey Tsalolikhin wrote: 2010/9/22 Todd Cranston-Cuebas : > You all know I'm a huge fan of open-source and I'm convinced that the > OS world can provide an alternative educational track than going the college route. Hi, Todd. Could you please elaborate on that? I'd like to get a basic education in computer science but am not sure where to start. (I've been a sysadmin for over 12 years.) Best, Aleksey _______________________________________________ Losangeles-pm mailing list Losangeles-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ask at develooper.com Fri Sep 24 15:05:27 2010 From: ask at develooper.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?=) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:05:27 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

Message-ID: <490F9AEF-5527-4231-9A1C-848EE28B8AE2@develooper.com> On Sep 24, 2010, at 13:49, Aleksey Tsalolikhin wrote: >> You all know I'm a huge fan of open-source and I'm convinced that the >> OS world can provide an alternative educational track than going the college route. > > Hi, Todd. Could you please elaborate on that? I'd like to get a > basic education in computer science but am not sure where to start. (I've been a sysadmin for over 12 years.) Just start programming. :-) Find some reasonable task you want to accomplish, pick up a couple of books and start figuring it out. One variation of this is to contribute to an open source project -- often this will be some sort of infrastructure you use for the "real project". ... that's how I got started anyway. - ask -- Ask Bj?rn Hansen, http://askask.com/ From geekhunter at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 15:06:41 2010 From: geekhunter at gmail.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:06:41 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

Message-ID: OK, here's the situation as far as I can see... given how all encompassing job descriptions have been lately (great communication skills, presentation skills, client management, strong technical knowledge, leadership abilities, etc.), employers are looking for candidates who can fill multiple roles, have ultimate flexibility to handle any situation, and perhaps of most importance, give the impression that the are a "can't miss" hire. Times are tight, right? When a hiring manager gets the bucks to open a position it's usually because there is a strong, "right now" kind of business incentive. This means that the candidate has to come in ready to hit the ground running and have an immediate bottom line impact. This is also pushing the job descriptions, and interviews, to lean more heavily on "proof" that you can't fail if given the job. Proof comes in many forms but a degree and/or certifications really are key indicators since they're tangible things you can point to. So, where does all of this leave you? Getting a degree in CS and/or certs certainly can't hurt. It shows dedication and the ability to set a goal and achieve it. Employers love that! It also shows that you have been at least exposed to most of the fundamentals (even classes you may like to avoid like a class on algorithms) so there shouldn't be any surprising missing holes in your background. On the other hand, I have seen individuals who have focused more on heavy involvement in the altruistic and synergistic world of open-source engineering. These individuals have taken a love of what they do to the next level, learned from each other, mentored others, all to further some application, development platform, language, etc. Yes, they typically scratch their own itch, but it can lead to serious learning in an environment outside of traditional education. One issue though is that this kind of "geed cred" is recognize within your own community but may not be so obvious to the uninitiated hiring manager. Hopefully, your particular "itch" happens to be in a technology that is hot enough, and the hiring managers clued in enough, so this won't be an issue and it's all about your proven ability to be creative, produce, and have the chops to succeed. That was an easier "sell" in the early dot-com days than it is now with perhaps the exception of either cutting-edge technologies or technologies that just have to done to put out a product now (e.g., rich client interfaces just have to be done --> javascript is hot, etc.). Of course, both forms of education (class-traditional vs. virtual participation-altruism) should not be in conflict and very strong candidates have a mix of both. Not sure if that helped ;) Todd On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Aleksey Tsalolikhin < atsaloli.tech at gmail.com> wrote: > 2010/9/22 Todd Cranston-Cuebas : > > You all know I'm a huge fan of open-source and I'm convinced that the > > OS world can provide an alternative educational track than going the > college route. > > Hi, Todd. Could you please elaborate on that? I'd like to get a > basic education in computer > science but am not sure where to start. (I've been a sysadmin for > over 12 years.) > > Best, > Aleksey > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ask at develooper.com Fri Sep 24 15:58:39 2010 From: ask at develooper.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?=) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:58:39 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

Message-ID: <8DBAA196-948E-43CD-BB37-EEA4A536B839@develooper.com> On Sep 24, 2010, at 15:06, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > Proof comes in many forms but a degree and/or certifications really are key indicators since they're tangible things you can point to. Over here we couldn't care less. :-) We have one PhD, but the rest of us are ranging from 12 years of primary education (if that) to maybe a degree in economics or art. (Actually, I think some of the recent hires have engineering degrees, but considering I'm not really sure it didn't exactly weigh heavily). Open source contributions or other proof of "can get good stuff done" on the other hand ... > Of course, both forms of education (class-traditional vs. virtual participation-altruism) should not be in conflict and very strong candidates have a mix of both. Indeed. :-) - ask From geekhunter at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 16:27:15 2010 From: geekhunter at gmail.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:27:15 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] jobs available, going unfulfilled In-Reply-To: <8DBAA196-948E-43CD-BB37-EEA4A536B839@develooper.com> References: <86y6at4p7g.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

<8DBAA196-948E-43CD-BB37-EEA4A536B839@develooper.com> Message-ID: Hey, that's why I've always thought you guys are great! It's about getting it done, having some fun, and having a good reputation ;) On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Ask Bj?rn Hansen wrote: > > On Sep 24, 2010, at 15:06, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > > > Proof comes in many forms but a degree and/or certifications really are > key indicators since they're tangible things you can point to. > > Over here we couldn't care less. :-) We have one PhD, but the rest of us > are ranging from 12 years of primary education (if that) to maybe a degree > in economics or art. > > (Actually, I think some of the recent hires have engineering degrees, but > considering I'm not really sure it didn't exactly weigh heavily). > > Open source contributions or other proof of "can get good stuff done" on > the other hand ... > > > Of course, both forms of education (class-traditional vs. virtual > participation-altruism) should not be in conflict and very strong candidates > have a mix of both. > > > Indeed. :-) > > > - ask -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tommystanton at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 15:27:25 2010 From: tommystanton at gmail.com (Tommy Stanton) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:27:25 -0700 Subject: [LA.pm] Presentation source code and slides from 9/22/10 meeting Message-ID: Here is my presentation from our last meeting. Slideshow quick view: http://tommystanton.com/presentations/20100922-Tommy_Stanton-App-Git-HomeSync/ Tarball of everything: http://tommystanton.com/presentations/20100922-Tommy_Stanton-App-Git-HomeSync.tar.gz Web-based repository view of the software (currently being developed on the "moosex-app-cmd" branch, to be merged into "master" eventually): http://tommystanton.com/git/app-git-homesync.git/?h=moosex-app-cmd Click on "Tree" to browse the source code in its current state. Thank you all especially for the feedback and suggestions during my presentation, I committed rough notes to the repository. [0] Josh, excellent initiative with your detailed blog post and example code (in response to testing a module that runs system() commands). [1] -Tommy [0] http://tommystanton.com/git/app-git-homesync.git/commit/?h=moosex-app-cmd&id=59cab4faa117fd84087548be862338b76f4f00af [1] http://serialized.net/2010/09/testing-perl-code-that-runs-commands/