[LasVegas-pm] LasVegas.pm -- State of the Onion

Sun Mar 27 16:15:56 PDT 2011

lol,

Even though I was mentored in perl by one of the "old guard," (and I mean
not even OO, old) -- I'd like to think that I'm open minded enough to
embrace new technologies, and I'm fine with devoting time to Moose, etc
during meetings, but:

"I don't think Perl matters anymore, but Moose sure as hell does.  Perl
without Moose is like Perl. Dead."

I don't fully agree with this, (and perhaps it's because I hail from the
system administration school of perl,) but not for the reason you're
thinking.

"Perl still runs X percent of the internet (like 70-80 iirc?) and until
*that* changes I won't notice."
-- That's old guard perl, from the "old kingdom" ;)

... also there are a *ton* of linux system packages that are written as
such, as well.

I'm not at all trying to be combative, but rather stress that Old Perl is
still very much with us; while playing a lil' devils advocate.

;)

C.

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 3:44 PM, J. Shirley <jshirley at gmail.com> wrote:

> I just now read the actual thread.
>
> Moose Book: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/moose/5187831
>
> Stevan would very likely send a copy if he has one laying around… which I
> would expect he does. This is, from what I know, self-published.
>
> I'm also not a fan of the old guard of the Perl world. Moose matters and
> while Randall is a good guy (I knew him in Portland, been on FLOSS with him,
> etc) he's not intrinsic to the new Perl hotness.
>
> I'm very opinionated on this. I don't think Perl matters anymore, but Moose
> sure as hell does.  Perl without Moose is like Perl. Dead.
>
> (Yes, that is intentional hyperbole. I'm writing this mostly being snarky)
>
> On Mar 26, 2011, at 1:21 PM, hippsta wrote:
>
> Amen to that.
>
> Resurgence or no, I think we could just have a good time in a social
> setting.
> Case-in-point: we go down the PASCAL/FORTRAN club and knock the dust off of
> those guys, as they play bridge and reminisce about teletypewriters and
> punch-cards. ;)
>
> I was serious about the wives, kids, BBQs thing on the website though:
> (even if they'll be bored out of their minds listening to us talk perl, they
> could chat and play amongst themselves for that portion.) :D
>
> The biggest thing to remember is that although people elevate them to a
> level of stardom, these guys are just regular dudes:
> When I was on SanDiego.pm Randall Schwartz had pinged the list asking if he
> could leave his luggage at someones house while he visited Mexico, lmao.
>
> Also, we should be able to use any clout that we build to secure book
> reviews from publishers like O'Reilly, which means: free books.. woo!
>
> C.
>
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Steve Wells <wells at cedarnet.org> wrote:
>
>> You are now the only other programmer that I know in the area.
>>
>> I used to know everything there was to know about Perl but that was back
>> when it was perl4 and I didn't need to know anything about OO stuff.  I
>> never went to school for this stuff either so the vocabulary is kinda' lost
>> on me.  I'm a avid reader though so I've poured through Damian's book on
>> Object Oriented Perl but he hasn't written anything new in years.  I would
>> love to find a good book on Moose. There is a tiny chapter in the latest
>> Catalyst book and about 10 pages of introduction in Modern Perl (by
>> chromatic) but not much else.  The online documentation is decent, albeit a
>> bit dry but I'd love to see an OO book that uses Moose as it's basis the way
>> OOP is written - maybe Damian can be persuaded to write an update.
>> books.perl.org doesn't show anything new (it doesn't show the new
>> catalyst books for instance) but a search on Amazon shows a couple updates
>> to older O'Reilly's coming out this summer.
>>
>> To sum up - you might be right about a resurgence in Perl - if I had to
>> guess I would say this fall or early winter there could be the start of a
>> revival since it looks like O'Reilly might be taking a minor interest again
>> with a new version of Intermediate and Learning Perl books, but we'll see
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:45 PM, hippsta <the.hippsta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I feel like i'm pretty much in the same boat as you are.
>>>
>>> The programming community at large may feel that perl has lost it's
>>> luster, or hold on the internet or whatever..
>>> But realistically on a day-to-day basis, that has no bearing on me.
>>>
>>> I use perl daily for sysadmin tasks, and less often for larger scaled
>>> modular worker daemon type stuff with OO.
>>> Perl still runs X percent of the internet (like 70-80 iirc?) and until
>>> *that* changes I won't notice.
>>>
>>> I think what they really mean is the companies' marketing depts have
>>> moved on to pushing for another buzz word like Ruby.
>>> (Python can be left out as it's not a bastard child of perl per se, and
>>> has yet to find a niche except in linux system tasks)
>>>
>>> Haven't messed with Moose either, but I installed catalyst once and
>>> LOL'ed at how many deps it had... the most i'd ever seen.. ever.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm definitely looking forward to getting this group going again.
>>> I haven't gotten any other responses, but i'm not discouraged.. i have 4
>>> billion email addies that i don't check either. ;)
>>>
>>> Gonna try the standard recruiting tactics, you know:
>>>     1. Guilt friends into joining
>>>     2. Post ads on social media, and craigslist
>>>     3. Try to convert programmers of other languages @CCSN/UNLV
>>>
>>> See how that goes;
>>> Also.. I really think we'll be able to draw a crowd... this *is* Vegas...
>>> Once Larry Wall has keynoted, the people will pour in... :P
>>>
>>> C.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Steve Wells <wells at cedarnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cool - I'll grab it this weekend… so did you get many responses to your
>>>> query concerning interest in Perl?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know how much leverage Perl has lost in the language war,
>>>> personally I don't care either.
>>>>
>>>> I have CPAN and it solves my problems, so I use Perl.  I haven't been
>>>> paying attention to Moose like I
>>>> should and just started playing around with Catalyst this year, which
>>>> has given me a whole new
>>>> perspective on web development.  I know everyone has talked about the
>>>> death of Perl6 but there seems
>>>> be more active development starting up last year… we'll see how that
>>>> goes but I'm not holding my breath
>>>> (there's too much to do in the meantime :-D).
>>>>
>>>> How about you - what's Perl done for you lately?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:11 PM, hippsta <the.hippsta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I also use mac, and Colloquy which is weird... i don't really like it..
>>>>> (but it's popular)
>>>>> and the ever popular Adium, which i also hated... :P lol
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are pretty much the defacto standards for IRC on mac, if you find
>>>>> a better one lemme know.
>>>>>
>>>>> GVLibrary = Awesome.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad to revive it: perl is still a major player in the language
>>>>> world, and on the internet.. it saddened me to the point of needing to take
>>>>> action. :)
>>>>> I suppose that's how revolutions start?
>>>>> :D
>>>>>
>>>>> C.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Steve Wells <wells at cedarnet.org>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I can use IRC again - it's been a few years…
>>>>>> can you recommend an IRC program for my mac?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no problem meeting at the GreenValley Library (and free is
>>>>>> always good) :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for reviving this!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:02 PM, hippsta <the.hippsta at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds great Steve! :)
>>>>>>> ...And nice to meet you by the way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was thinking the GreenValley Library as:
>>>>>>>     1. It's relatively close to me (haha)
>>>>>>>     2. Use of the conference rooms are free, and...
>>>>>>>     3. they only require 24hrs notice to secure
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure if you still use IRC, but you can come hang out with me and
>>>>>>> some of the locals on irc.perl.org that have already gravitated
>>>>>>> toward our room : #lasvegas.pm; until we work out a meeting date.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking forward to it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :) Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Steve Wells <wells at cedarnet.org>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm in - tell me a time and place :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011/3/24 hippsta <the.hippsta at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Fellow Mongers!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We’ve been inactive for far too long, and as the new group leader,
>>>>>>>>> I aim to change that.
>>>>>>>>> The companies in this city are not hiring perl programmers, and we
>>>>>>>>> are the only ones that can convince them, and the local computer science /
>>>>>>>>> programming community that perl is the answer: not java, python,
>>>>>>>>> php or ruby.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, we live in one of the most popular and visited cities
>>>>>>>>> in the world: so we should be able to secure plenty of guest speakers for
>>>>>>>>> keynotes and lightning talks during our meetings. (I’ve literally already
>>>>>>>>> had offers from other group leaders, since yesterday.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I mainly wanted to get an idea of who all on the list is still out
>>>>>>>>> there, still interested in perl, and to touch base with them. Although, if I
>>>>>>>>> have to I’ll go kidnap some university students and train them myself to
>>>>>>>>> rebuild the group.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Perl & Loathing in Las Vegas!
>>>>>>>>> http://lasvegas.pm.org/
>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Hart
>>>>>>>>> Senior Internet Engineer,
>>>>>>>>> ZeroLag Communications, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.zerolag.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> LasVegas-pm mailing list
>>>>>>>>> LasVegas-pm at pm.org
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/lasvegas-pm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> STEVE
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *hippsta*
>>>>>>> Group Leader / List Administrator,
>>>>>>> Las Vegas Perl Mongers
>>>>>>> http://lasvegas.pm.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> STEVE
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> *
>>>>> Chris Hart* -- (a.k.a. hippsta)
>>>>>
>>>>> Group Leader / List Administrator,
>>>>> Las Vegas Perl Mongers
>>>>> http://lasvegas.pm.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> STEVE
>>>> -----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Respectfully,
>>> *
>>> Chris Hart* -- (a.k.a. hippsta)
>>> Group Leader / List Administrator,
>>> Las Vegas Perl Mongers
>>> http://lasvegas.pm.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> STEVE
>> -----
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Respectfully,
> *
> Chris Hart* -- (a.k.a. hippsta)
> Group Leader / List Administrator,
> Las Vegas Perl Mongers
> http://lasvegas.pm.org
> _______________________________________________
> LasVegas-pm mailing list
> LasVegas-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/lasvegas-pm
>
>
>

-- 
Respectfully,
*
Chris Hart* -- (a.k.a. hippsta)
Group Leader / List Administrator,
Las Vegas Perl Mongers
http://lasvegas.pm.org
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