From daniel at coder.com Sat Jan 8 11:18:40 2011 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 14:18:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [kw-pm] kw-pm talk for January 20th Message-ID: Happy 2011! The January KW Perl Mongers talk (in two weeks) will be: Doing I.T. in Your Car: Mobile computing using perl, OBDII, ham radio and mapping tools; a presentation by Erich Ritzmann. As usual, pizza and pop/water are provided, sponsored by $anonymous, and various details can be found on our webpage at http://kw.pm.org/ Any questions, give a shout; either on this list, or irc.perl.org, channel #uc Hope you can make it! -Daniel From dada.da at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 12:50:21 2011 From: dada.da at gmail.com (Daniel Allen) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 15:50:21 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Fwd: [JOB] Perl at Symantec in Markham In-Reply-To: <4D2F26C8.6020503@sergeant.org> References: <4D2F26C8.6020503@sergeant.org> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Matt Sergeant Date: Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:22 AM Subject: [tpm] [JOB] Perl at Symantec in Markham To: Toronto Perl Mongers I wish I could post a direct link to this job but sadly you'll just have to go to http://www.symantec.com/about/careers/search.jsp and search for Perl to find it, because for some reason there's no way to direct link to jobs on our web site. Job title is: Sr. Security Infrastructure Administrator The role is building tools for network operations and engineers to improve monitoring and software rollout. Location is 404/Vic Park and Steeles. Matt. _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyler.slijboom at gmail.com Tue Jan 18 11:30:07 2011 From: tyler.slijboom at gmail.com (Tyler Slijboom) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 14:30:07 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Time for a beginners talk? Message-ID: Hello, I see on the Topics Wiki that UW CSC has expressed interest in the KW PM talks. I am happy to give a beginners talk which I see has been mentioned twice on that. Focus would be installing modules, and really handy core modules. Would now be a good time for such a talk? I will prepare some slides for the talk, where do I submit them? As an attachement to this list? -- Sincerely, Tyler Slijboom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at coder.com Tue Jan 18 13:35:12 2011 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:35:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [kw-pm] Time for a beginners talk? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Tyler Slijboom wrote: > I see on the Topics Wiki that UW CSC has expressed interest in the KW PM > talks. There isn't a time-stamp on the comment on that page, but I'm pretty sure it was from Jan/feb/mar 2009. Still, yes short beginner talks are a good thing and your suggestion is welcome. > Would now be a good time for such a talk? Sine we haven't advertised beginner talks to CSC this year, may we put you in for a short beginner talk for February? Like, 15 minutes? That way we can see about specifically attracting some beginners? > I am happy to give a beginners talk which I see has been mentioned twice on > that. Focus would be installing modules, and really handy core modules. > > I will prepare some slides for the talk, where do I submit them? As an > attachement to this list? Best would be emailing them to me to put onto the talks section of the site, which we can tell folks to go look at... Thanks! -Daniel > > > -- > Sincerely, > Tyler Slijboom > From tyler.slijboom at gmail.com Tue Jan 18 15:22:56 2011 From: tyler.slijboom at gmail.com (Tyler Slijboom) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:22:56 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Time for a beginners talk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All of this sounds good to me. The Topics Wiki page seemed up-to-date since it mentions that there are no talks ready for February and March. :) On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Tyler Slijboom wrote: > > > I see on the Topics Wiki that UW CSC has expressed interest in the KW PM > > talks. > > There isn't a time-stamp on the comment on that page, but I'm pretty sure > it was from Jan/feb/mar 2009. Still, yes short beginner talks are a good > thing and your suggestion is welcome. > > > Would now be a good time for such a talk? > > Sine we haven't advertised beginner talks to CSC this year, may we > put you in for a short beginner talk for February? Like, 15 minutes? That > way we can see about specifically attracting some beginners? > > > I am happy to give a beginners talk which I see has been mentioned twice > on > > that. Focus would be installing modules, and really handy core modules. > > > > > I will prepare some slides for the talk, where do I submit them? As an > > attachement to this list? > > Best would be emailing them to me to put onto the talks section of the > site, which we can tell folks to go look at... > > Thanks! > -Daniel > > > > > > > -- > > Sincerely, > > Tyler Slijboom > > > > > > > -- Sincerely, Tyler Slijboom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From broadswd at gmail.com Tue Jan 18 16:13:49 2011 From: broadswd at gmail.com (Raymond) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:13:49 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Time for a beginners talk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That sounds like every year ever. :) 2011/1/18 Tyler Slijboom > > The Topics Wiki page seemed up-to-date since it mentions that there are no > talks ready for February and March. :) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at coder.com Tue Jan 18 17:07:40 2011 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:07:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [kw-pm] Time for a beginners talk? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Raymond wrote: > That sounds like every year ever. :) OK, OK, I looked at the timestamp, it's from 2007. :) But we did pull through with talks in the end! http://kw.pm.org/wiki/index.cgi?PastMeetings And what will 2011 bring? Hey, maybe YOU are the right person to present this year- now's a great time to give a shout (or private email) if you've got a half an idea for something to present... as you'll see from the PastMeetings list, it sure doesn't have to be perl, we're an omnivorous bunch. Your reward, in addition to free pizza and the appreciation of the group, is a fuller understanding of the topic- IMO the best way to learn something better is to present it to a fresh audience! > 2011/1/18 Tyler Slijboom > > > > > The Topics Wiki page seemed up-to-date since it mentions that there are no > > talks ready for February and March. :) > > > > > From daniel at coder.com Wed Jan 19 10:22:38 2011 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:22:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [kw-pm] kw-pm talk tomorrow - pizza list reminder Message-ID: A reminder about tomorrow's meeting; and please sign up on the pizza list so we can order the right amount: http://kw.pm.org/wiki/index.cgi?PizzaList On 11-01-11 02:08 PM, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > > Doing I.T. in Your Car: Mobile computing using perl, OBDII, ham radio and > mapping tools; a presentation by Erich Ritzmann. > > As usual, pizza and pop/water are provided, sponsored by $anonymous, > and various details can be found on our webpage at http://kw.pm.org/ > > Any questions, give a shout; either on this list, or irc.perl.org, channel > #uc > > Hope you can make it! From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Fri Jan 21 14:30:09 2011 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:30:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [kw-pm] how to identify the ubuntu package that contains a module? Message-ID: sort of a ubuntu question but i'm trying to build the "publican" publishing package from source on my ubuntu 10.10 system and, almost immediately, i get: $ perl ./Build.PL Deleting _build Creating custom builder _build/lib/My/Builder.pm in _build/lib/My Can't locate File/Inplace.pm in @INC (@INC contains: lib /home/rpjday/publican/svn/trunk/publican/_build/lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, line 1662. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, line 1662. ... so how (in general) can i determine what ubuntu package i should install to supply a given module? thanks. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== From foxryan at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 14:35:29 2011 From: foxryan at gmail.com (Ryan Fox) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:35:29 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] how to identify the ubuntu package that contains a module? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ubuntu doesn't have a package for all Perl modules. You could try `apt-cache search foo::bar`, but there doesn't seem to be a package for this particular module. Try this instead: `cpan File::Inplace` (you might need sudo, depending on configuration) On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > sort of a ubuntu question but i'm trying to build the "publican" > publishing package from source on my ubuntu 10.10 system and, almost > immediately, i get: > > $ perl ./Build.PL > Deleting _build > Creating custom builder _build/lib/My/Builder.pm in _build/lib/My > Can't locate File/Inplace.pm in @INC (@INC contains: lib > /home/rpjday/publican/svn/trunk/publican/_build/lib /etc/perl > /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 > /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 > /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, > line 1662. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, > line 1662. > ... > > so how (in general) can i determine what ubuntu package i should > install to supply a given module? thanks. > > rday > > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > http://crashcourse.ca > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday > ======================================================================== > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kw-pm at datademons.com Fri Jan 21 14:55:22 2011 From: kw-pm at datademons.com (Justin Wheeler) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:55:22 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] how to identify the ubuntu package that contains a module? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3A0EDA.9070908@datademons.com> debian/ubuntu follow a standard package naming format for perl modules. lib-perl So, for example, if DBIx::Class has perl modules, it would be: libdbix-class-perl Justin On 21/01/11 05:30 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > sort of a ubuntu question but i'm trying to build the "publican" > publishing package from source on my ubuntu 10.10 system and, almost > immediately, i get: > > $ perl ./Build.PL > Deleting _build > Creating custom builder _build/lib/My/Builder.pm in _build/lib/My > Can't locate File/Inplace.pm in @INC (@INC contains: lib > /home/rpjday/publican/svn/trunk/publican/_build/lib /etc/perl > /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 > /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 > /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, > line 1662. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, > line 1662. > ... > > so how (in general) can i determine what ubuntu package i should > install to supply a given module? thanks. > > rday > From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Fri Jan 21 15:40:15 2011 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:40:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [kw-pm] how to identify the ubuntu package that contains a module? In-Reply-To: <4D3A0EDA.9070908@datademons.com> References: <4D3A0EDA.9070908@datademons.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Justin Wheeler wrote: > debian/ubuntu follow a standard package naming format for perl modules. > > lib-perl > > So, for example, if DBIx::Class has perl modules, it would be: > > libdbix-class-perl i thought that was the case, so i was fairly sure there was no ubuntu package for it. no problem, this seems to have solved *that* problem: $ sudo cpan File::Inplace however, now that that's resolved, the build script runs through the list of requirements and i get: Checking prerequisites... - ERROR: XML::Simple is not installed - ERROR: Template is not installed - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 - ERROR: XML::Simple is not installed - ERROR: Template is not installed - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 so start with: $ sudo apt-get install libxml-simple-perl libtemplate-perl and i'm down to: Checking prerequisites... - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 but that's the tricky one since the *current* perl package is obviously not new enough. under these circumstances, would i run cpan again for this module? rday From foxryan at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 15:55:35 2011 From: foxryan at gmail.com (Ryan Fox) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:55:35 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] how to identify the ubuntu package that contains a module? In-Reply-To: References: <4D3A0EDA.9070908@datademons.com> Message-ID: If nothing else depends on the Ubuntu package, I would remove it before installing with cpan. On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Justin Wheeler wrote: > > > debian/ubuntu follow a standard package naming format for perl modules. > > > > lib-perl > > > > So, for example, if DBIx::Class has perl modules, it would be: > > > > libdbix-class-perl > > i thought that was the case, so i was fairly sure there was no > ubuntu package for it. no problem, this seems to have solved *that* > problem: > > $ sudo cpan File::Inplace > > however, now that that's resolved, the build script runs through the > list of requirements and i get: > > Checking prerequisites... > - ERROR: XML::Simple is not installed > - ERROR: Template is not installed > - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 > - ERROR: XML::Simple is not installed > - ERROR: Template is not installed > - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 > > so start with: > > $ sudo apt-get install libxml-simple-perl libtemplate-perl > > and i'm down to: > > Checking prerequisites... > - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 > - ERROR: XML::TreeBuilder (3.09) is installed, but we need version >= 4 > > but that's the tricky one since the *current* perl package is > obviously not new enough. under these circumstances, would i run cpan > again for this module? > > rday > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Fri Jan 21 15:59:49 2011 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:59:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [kw-pm] how to identify the ubuntu package that contains a module? In-Reply-To: References: <4D3A0EDA.9070908@datademons.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Ryan Fox wrote: > If nothing else depends on the Ubuntu package, I would remove it > before installing with cpan. sadly, doesn't help -- the "cpan" command tries to install the same version as was already on the system, which is not new enough. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== From ceeshek at gmail.com Sun Jan 23 15:41:00 2011 From: ceeshek at gmail.com (Cees Hek) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:41:00 +1100 Subject: [kw-pm] how to identify the ubuntu package that contains a module? In-Reply-To: <4D3A0EDA.9070908@datademons.com> References: <4D3A0EDA.9070908@datademons.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Justin Wheeler wrote: > debian/ubuntu follow a standard package naming format for perl modules. > > lib-perl > > So, for example, if DBIx::Class has perl modules, it would be: > > libdbix-class-perl That works in many cases, but if the module you are looking for is part of a module distribution you may not find it. For example in lenny the Apache2::Cookie module is part of libapache2-request-perl. Another way of finding the package name is to install and use apt-file, which allows you to search for the names of files that are provided by a package. # apt-file search Apache2/Cookie.pm libapache2-request-perl: /usr/lib/perl5/Apache2/Cookie.pm Cheers, Cees > > Justin > > On 21/01/11 05:30 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> >> ? sort of a ubuntu question but i'm trying to build the "publican" >> publishing package from source on my ubuntu 10.10 system and, almost >> immediately, i get: >> >> $ perl ./Build.PL >> Deleting _build >> Creating custom builder _build/lib/My/Builder.pm in _build/lib/My >> Can't locate File/Inplace.pm in @INC (@INC contains: lib >> /home/rpjday/publican/svn/trunk/publican/_build/lib /etc/perl >> /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 >> /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 >> /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, >> ?line 1662. >> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at lib/Publican/XmlClean.pm line 15, >> ?line 1662. >> ... >> >> ? so how (in general) can i determine what ubuntu package i should >> install to supply a given module? ?thanks. >> >> rday >> > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From tyler.slijboom at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 15:23:55 2011 From: tyler.slijboom at gmail.com (Tyler Slijboom) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:23:55 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Meeting Topic updated Message-ID: I added a section for myself in the Meeting Topics, with a small list of topics to cover on introducing Perl to other programmers. -- Sincerely, Tyler Slijboom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyler.slijboom at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 15:27:39 2011 From: tyler.slijboom at gmail.com (Tyler Slijboom) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:27:39 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Perl CGI Scripts cannot find modules in library Message-ID: Hello everyone, This is an Apache / Perl problem that I am having. I am using a CPAN Module in my perl CGI application. It is Spreadsheet::ParseExcel I have installed the cpan module with tar.gz files. I have installed the dependencies. However, I did do so as a non-root user. The library that contains these files is under a user folder, /home/user/lib Now, I have successfully configured Apache2 on this box. The html directory is /var/www/html and the cgi folder is /var/www/html/cgi-bin. I have verified they work because all of the scripts in that folder that do not require the special modules work in my firefox browser, ie. hello world, data dumps, simple forms. However, when I try to run the scripts that use "Spreadsheet::ParseExcel", I get the error that the module cannot be found in @INC. However, I have a "use lib" statement at the beginning of the script that adds the library. The scripts can be run in PUTTY without problem. Only when running the script from the browser am I getting the issue. This web application was written on another box and works fine on that box. Because I developped there of course. I put Apache2 on my personal Ubuntu machine, and installed the web application and modules here, and it works on my local box. Any insights on the issue? Thank you all for your time! -- Sincerely, Tyler Slijboom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From max at alleged.net Tue Jan 25 15:48:39 2011 From: max at alleged.net (Max) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:48:39 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Perl CGI Scripts cannot find modules in library In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3F6157.8060306@alleged.net> Apache usually runs scripts as a special non-user, who likely would not find ~user's libraries. On 25/01/2011 6:27 PM, Tyler Slijboom wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > This is an Apache / Perl problem that I am having. > > I am using a CPAN Module in my perl CGI application. It is > Spreadsheet::ParseExcel > > I have installed the cpan module with tar.gz files. > > I have installed the dependencies. > > However, I did do so as a non-root user. The library that contains > these files is under a user folder, /home/user/lib > > Now, I have successfully configured Apache2 on this box. The html > directory is /var/www/html and the cgi folder is > /var/www/html/cgi-bin. I have verified they work because all of the > scripts in that folder that do not require the special modules work in > my firefox browser, ie. hello world, data dumps, simple forms. > > However, when I try to run the scripts that use > "Spreadsheet::ParseExcel", I get the error that the module cannot be > found in @INC. However, I have a "use lib" statement at the beginning > of the script that adds the library. > > The scripts can be run in PUTTY without problem. Only when running the > script from the browser am I getting the issue. > > This web application was written on another box and works fine on that > box. Because I developped there of course. I put Apache2 on my > personal Ubuntu machine, and installed the web application and modules > here, and it works on my local box. > > Any insights on the issue? > > Thank you all for your time! > > -- > Sincerely, > Tyler Slijboom > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kw-pm at datademons.com Tue Jan 25 16:50:34 2011 From: kw-pm at datademons.com (Justin Wheeler) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:50:34 -0500 Subject: [kw-pm] Perl CGI Scripts cannot find modules in library In-Reply-To: <4D3F6157.8060306@alleged.net> References: <4D3F6157.8060306@alleged.net> Message-ID: <4D3F6FDA.2080505@datademons.com> su to the user that the server runs as, and run the script from the commandline -- that will advise you if you're dealing with permissions, or a missing module, etc. Justin On 25/01/11 06:48 PM, Max wrote: > Apache usually runs scripts as a special non-user, who likely would not > find ~user's libraries. > > On 25/01/2011 6:27 PM, Tyler Slijboom wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> This is an Apache / Perl problem that I am having. >> >> I am using a CPAN Module in my perl CGI application. It is >> Spreadsheet::ParseExcel >> >> I have installed the cpan module with tar.gz files. >> >> I have installed the dependencies. >> >> However, I did do so as a non-root user. The library that contains >> these files is under a user folder, /home/user/lib >> >> Now, I have successfully configured Apache2 on this box. The html >> directory is /var/www/html and the cgi folder is >> /var/www/html/cgi-bin. I have verified they work because all of the >> scripts in that folder that do not require the special modules work in >> my firefox browser, ie. hello world, data dumps, simple forms. >> >> However, when I try to run the scripts that use >> "Spreadsheet::ParseExcel", I get the error that the module cannot be >> found in @INC. However, I have a "use lib" statement at the beginning >> of the script that adds the library. >> >> The scripts can be run in PUTTY without problem. Only when running the >> script from the browser am I getting the issue. >> >> This web application was written on another box and works fine on that >> box. Because I developped there of course. I put Apache2 on my >> personal Ubuntu machine, and installed the web application and modules >> here, and it works on my local box. >> >> Any insights on the issue? >> >> Thank you all for your time! >> >> -- >> Sincerely, >> Tyler Slijboom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kw-pm mailing list >> kw-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm