From amoore at mooresystems.com Mon Apr 9 19:22:39 2012 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 21:22:39 -0500 Subject: [Kc] April meeting tomorrow (tuesday) evening 7pm at 75th street Brewery Message-ID: Hi Gang - It sort of snuck up on me again, but the 2nd Tuesday of April is here tomorrow. So, it's time to get together again and share some stories of local tech interest. Last month we met at 75th Street Brewery in Waldo, and I think that worked out great, so let's try it again. I'll grab a couple of high-tops in the main bar area around 7pm. I look forward to seeing anyone who can make it. 75th Street Brewery is one block West of Wornall on 75th Street in Waldo. -Andy From cscheppers at kc.rr.com Tue Apr 10 10:27:43 2012 From: cscheppers at kc.rr.com (C.J. Scheppers) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 12:27:43 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Meeting April 10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is the meeting tonight at the 75th Street Brewery? CJ >We had a great meeting last night at 75th Street Brewery. We chatted >about tons of topics like: > >There was pretty wide support for continuing meetings at the 75th >Street Brewery, so we'll probably return there next month (Tuesday >April 10). Perhaps this will let some of you folks in Missouri make it >more easily. > >In the meantime, don't hesitate to use the mailing list or drop by >#kcpm on irc.perl.org. > >See you in April! > >-Andy From amoore at mooresystems.com Tue Apr 10 10:29:01 2012 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 12:29:01 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Meeting April 10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 12:27 PM, C.J. Scheppers wrote: > Is the meeting tonight at the 75th Street Brewery? You bet! come on by! It's one block West of Wornall on 75th. I'll have a couple of high-tops in the bar. -Andy From djgoku at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 10:29:13 2012 From: djgoku at gmail.com (Jonathan Otsuka) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 12:29:13 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Meeting April 10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38F44B32-3E4C-4A0E-97DF-FFCBFD4AAA2F@gmail.com> Yes, see you guys tonight. Jonathan Otsuka On Apr 10, 2012, at 12:27 PM, "C.J. Scheppers" wrote: > Is the meeting tonight at the 75th Street Brewery? > > CJ > >> We had a great meeting last night at 75th Street Brewery. We chatted >> about tons of topics like: >> >> There was pretty wide support for continuing meetings at the 75th >> Street Brewery, so we'll probably return there next month (Tuesday >> April 10). Perhaps this will let some of you folks in Missouri make it >> more easily. >> >> In the meantime, don't hesitate to use the mailing list or drop by >> #kcpm on irc.perl.org. >> >> See you in April! >> >> -Andy > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc From alanvoss at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 12:04:32 2012 From: alanvoss at gmail.com (Alan Voss) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:04:32 -0500 Subject: [Kc] YAPC 2012 Message-ID: KC Perl Friends, I was wondering if any of you are planning to attend YAPC up here in Wisconsin. I live in Milwaukee these days, but Madison is a very pretty city, I assure you, and the talks look really interesting. Let me know if you plan to attend! Alan From sterling at hanenkamp.com Tue Apr 10 12:39:35 2012 From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:39:35 -0500 Subject: [Kc] YAPC 2012 Message-ID: I will be there with the rest of the Grant Street Group contingent and giving a talk unrelated to anything I do at work. http://act.yapcna.org/2012/talk/55 I have never been to Wisconsin and am looking forward to it. -- Andrew Sterling Hanenkamp sterling at hanenkamp.com 785-370-4454 On Apr 10, 2012 2:04 PM, "Alan Voss" wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amoore at mooresystems.com Tue Apr 10 13:07:30 2012 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:07:30 -0500 Subject: [Kc] YAPC 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Alan - Good to hear from you! Unfortunately, my current employer will neither pay for me to attend, nor give me the time off to attend at my own expense, so I'll have to sit this year out. I hope it's a great conference and I look forward to hearing about it. -Andy On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Alan Voss wrote: > KC Perl Friends, > > I was wondering if any of you are planning to attend YAPC up here in > Wisconsin. ?I live in Milwaukee these days, but Madison is a very > pretty city, I assure you, and the talks look really interesting. ?Let > me know if you plan to attend! > > Alan > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc From davidnicol at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 16:03:06 2012 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 18:03:06 -0500 Subject: [Kc] YAPC 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't think I can make it either but it is apparently being hosted by Plainblack, who are a completely all-right bunch of guys who hire telecommuters to maintain client WebGUI sites hosted by them. From davidnicol at gmail.com Mon Apr 16 22:13:00 2012 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 00:13:00 -0500 Subject: [Kc] automated cpan testing .... Message-ID: I just got an automated test failure report for a module I uploaded a few months ago. Looking at the extended report, it seems that the version of test::harness (or something) that I wrote it with didn't require the "plan" number to be set, and the version of that piece of infrastructure installed on that test box does. The matrix for the module http://matrix.cpantesters.org/?dist=MooseX-Graph-Easy-StateMachine+0.01 is funny, considering that if I recall correctly I actually developed it on Cygwin. FreeBSD and Linux pass. -- maybe one can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into, but there's always pointing and laughing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenclouse at gmail.com Tue Apr 17 01:28:11 2012 From: stephenclouse at gmail.com (Stephen Clouse) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 03:28:11 -0500 Subject: [Kc] automated cpan testing .... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM, David Nicol wrote: > I just got an automated test failure report for a module I uploaded a few > months ago. > Looking at the extended report, it seems that the version of test::harness > (or something) that > I wrote it with didn't require the "plan" number to be set, and the > version of that piece of > infrastructure installed on that test box does. > You need Test::More (or Test::Simple) >= 0.88 as a test_requires. That was the first release version with done_testing support. -- Stephen Clouse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lukewpatterson at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 14:57:41 2012 From: lukewpatterson at gmail.com (Luke Patterson) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:57:41 -0500 Subject: [Kc] May 2012 Meeting? Message-ID: Hello Mongers, I was wondering what was planned for next month's meeting. Looks like the site is down: http://kc.pm.org/ I can talk about some mobile stuff I've been working on if there isn't another speaker planned yet. At the Brewery again? Is it on the 8th? - Luke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amoore at mooresystems.com Mon Apr 23 17:13:54 2012 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:13:54 -0500 Subject: [Kc] May 2012 Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Luke - Yes, let's get together on the 8th of May (the 2nd Tuesday) at 75th Street Brewery. I'd love it if you could share your experiences about mobile stuff. We're pretty relaxed about speakers these days, so I'd love it if someone like you would step up and keep us entertained for a few moments. Please let me know what I can do to help. Thanks for letting me know about the site. I'll look into it. -Andy On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Luke Patterson wrote: > Hello Mongers, > > I was wondering what was planned for next month's meeting. ?Looks like the > site is down:?http://kc.pm.org/ > > I can talk about some mobile stuff I've been working on if there isn't > another speaker planned yet. > > At the Brewery again? ?Is it on the 8th? > > > - Luke > > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc From davidnicol at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 14:27:38 2012 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:27:38 -0500 Subject: [Kc] proposal: functional C Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Jesse Luehrs wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 02:58:07AM -0500, David Nicol wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Jesse Luehrs wrote: >> >> > I have on occasion wished for a more functional programming-style if >> > statement: >> > >> > ?my $foo = if ($foo->bar) { $bar } else { $baz }; >> > >> > It is a lot more readable than ?: when the expressions get more >> > complicated. >> >> C is very handy and will let you do that: >> >> $ perl -le 'my $X = do { if ( 0 ) { 27 } else { 33 }};print $X' >> 33 >> >> $ perl -le 'my $X = do { if ( 1 ) { 27 } else { 33 }};print $X' >> 27 > > Sure, but if I didn't care about it being pretty, ?: already works too(: This proposal is separate from "overridable keywords." The proposal appears to be, allow if ( BOOLEAN ) { TRUE BRANCH } else { FALSE BRANCH } and variations (unless, elsif, elsunless (do we even have that?) and so on) to act as R-values in assignment and elsewhere. In effect, making that syntax exactly a long way to write the ternary operator. An if-statement already sort of returns a value, but it can only be captured by enclosing the if-statement in a block of some kind, so the value gets returned according the "value of a block is the value of the last expression executed" rule. Currently, attempts to use if-statements as R-values are syntax errors. They are not misinterpreted as trailing conditionals. It seems that there is no syntactic ambiguity between R-value if-statement and trailing if-statement, but differentiating may require looking ahead several tokens, as the signifiers Challenge: Can anyone come up with an ambiguous expression where it is not clear if the expression is supposed to be an R-value if-statement (were such things allowed) or a trailing conditional? I imagine it would be pretty tricky to modify perl so the if and unless keywords are reclassified into animals that can be r-values, since they are already the subject of some ambiguity. But maybe it isn't, as regular and trailing versions never appear at the same place in the parsing state machine. here we've got an "if" where only an r-value will make sense: $ perl -le '$X = if (1) { "T" } else { "F" }; print $X' syntax error at -e line 1, near "= if" Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. $ perl -le '$X = (if (1) { "T" } else { "F" }); print $X' syntax error at -e line 1, near "(if" Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. those might become valid by simply allowing C to be an r-value, in an identified and enumerated set of r-value-only situations, such as on the right side of an assignment operator, or as the first thing after a left round, (and also what? ) here we've got a left curly after a trailing conditional if: $ perl -le 'print if (1) { "T" } else { "F" }' syntax error at -e line 1, near ") {" Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. $ perl -le 'print if (1) { "T" }' syntax error at -e line 1, near ") {" Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. Making those valid would require looking ahead to determine whether the C is a trailer or a returner. The differentiator appears to be, the returner has both (1) parentheses around the thing following the keyword and (2) an opening curly following the parenthesized predicate, while the trailer's predicate may have parentheses, they are never directly.followed by an opening curly. From don.ellis at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 16:50:00 2012 From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:50:00 -0500 Subject: [Kc] proposal: functional C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 4:27 PM, David Nicol wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Jesse Luehrs wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 02:58:07AM -0500, David Nicol wrote: >>> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Jesse Luehrs wrote: >>> >>> > I have on occasion wished for a more functional programming-style if >>> > statement: >>> > >>> > ?my $foo = if ($foo->bar) { $bar } else { $baz }; >>> > >>> > It is a lot more readable than ?: when the expressions get more >>> > complicated. >>> >>> C is very handy and will let you do that: >>> >>> $ perl -le 'my $X = do { if ( 0 ) { 27 } else { 33 }};print $X' >>> 33 >>> >>> $ perl -le 'my $X = do { if ( 1 ) { 27 } else { 33 }};print $X' >>> 27 >> >> Sure, but if I didn't care about it being pretty, ?: already works too(: Any thoughts on using whitespace to pretty it up a little? Might not work so well on -e command line (or it might with the right treatment), but looks fine in a script. I used this indentation in C to make some sprintf conditionals more readable. my $foo = $foo->bar ? $bar : $baz; --Don Ellis From alanvoss at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 21:18:30 2012 From: alanvoss at gmail.com (Alan Voss) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:18:30 -0500 Subject: [Kc] see you all at YAPC (or at least some of you) Message-ID: Hey KC Perl Friends, I'll be at YAPC this year, but there are not many seats available at this point to the conference. If you are wanting to go, I suggest you submit quickly. I'll be looking for a project coming this summer, so if any of you have some good ideas, let's discuss them in Madison! Alan From davidnicol at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 00:40:49 2012 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 02:40:49 -0500 Subject: [Kc] proposal: functional C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Don Ellis wrote: > Any thoughts on using whitespace to pretty it up a little? Might not > work so well on -e command line (or it might with the right > treatment), but looks fine in a script. I used this indentation in C > to make some sprintf conditionals more readable. > > my $foo = $foo->bar > ? ? ? ?? $bar > ? ? ? ?: $baz; > > --Don Ellis Me too, but often with the hook and double-dot at the end of the line rather than the beginning. I doubt that expanded ternary style debates have ever achieved the heat level of the ones over "else cuddling." -- In this document, the key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" are to be interpreted using situational ethics. From jay.hannah at iinteractive.com Sat Apr 28 11:00:39 2012 From: jay.hannah at iinteractive.com (Jay Hannah) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:00:39 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Kansas City May 25, 26 - Hack the Midwest Message-ID: <779C5AA4-72D5-4598-A91E-686285A72147@iinteractive.com> Anyone going to this? http://hackthemidwest.com/ Jay Hannah Project Lead / Programmer http://www.iinteractive.com Email: jay.hannah at iinteractive.com AOL IM: deafferret Mobile: 1.402.598.7782 Fax: 1.402.691.9496 From davidnicol at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 13:53:23 2012 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:53:23 -0500 Subject: [Kc] proposal: functional C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 8:21 AM, ?var Arnfj?r? Bjarmason wrote: > For what it's worth I once asked Larry Wall on #perl6 if he'd consider > making everything an expression in Perl 6, i.e. you could always stick > an assignment in front of any block. > > He didn't like that for language design reasons, he thought that > expressions and blocks should be distinct constructs. > > I think for Perl 5 it makes the most sense to just continue using do {}. ( expression ) could always be do { expression } could it not? -- In this document, the key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" are to be interpreted using situational ethics.