From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue May  6 08:33:20 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:33:20 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
Message-ID: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>


The May meeting is a week from today.

Are their any topics you'd like to see come up in our rambling
discussion of all things technical?

If you don't come to meetings because no topics ever interest you,
speak up!

As a reminder, meetings are the 2nd Tuesday of the month at Barleys on
Midland at 7pm.

-Andy

From davidnicol at gmail.com  Tue May  6 09:14:33 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:14:33 +0000
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805060914u3f45ec12ub3bc14752d48ffd5@mail.gmail.com>

I might be able to introduce "tipjarium" my new made-up radioactive
virtual metal
with a half-life of exactly 90 days, that can be mined in pure form
from the tipjarium
mine (by completing a recaptcha puzzle) and which decays back into
entropy over time.

Always looking for coding help on such things.

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
>
>  The May meeting is a week from today.
>
>  Are their any topics you'd like to see come up in our rambling
>  discussion of all things technical?

-- 
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat,
and wrong." -- Mencken

From djgoku at gmail.com  Tue May  6 12:59:26 2008
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 14:59:26 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
>
> The May meeting is a week from today.
>
> Are their any topics you'd like to see come up in our rambling
> discussion of all things technical?
>
> If you don't come to meetings because no topics ever interest you,
> speak up!
>
> As a reminder, meetings are the 2nd Tuesday of the month at Barleys on
> Midland at 7pm.

I am planning on attending now that school is coming to a close.
Catalyst maybe? I have been thinking about getting the ebook of
"Catalyst by Jonathan Rockway". Anyone have any comments on this book?
I am not trying to become a pro at using Catalyst, I just have some
projects in mind and I think this is the tool to use for the job.

Jonathan

From popefelix at gmail.com  Tue May  6 13:22:21 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:22:21 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Catalyst maybe?

I'm doing some Catalyst stuff; I could talk about that.

> I have been thinking about getting the ebook of  "Catalyst by Jonathan Rockway". Anyone have any comments on this book?

J. Rockway says: "Buy it several times.  I want to order a pizza."  :)
-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue May  6 14:53:27 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:53:27 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080506215326.GB3679@mooresystems.com>


On Tue, May 06, 2008 at 03:22:21PM -0500, Kit Peters wrote:
> I'm doing some Catalyst stuff; I could talk about that.

That would be super. A few minutes on what Catalyst is and how you can
use it would be really interesting.  or, if you're really serious
about it, we can get the back room that has a projector screen if
you're interested in showing anything.

let me know.

-A


From popefelix at gmail.com  Tue May  6 14:51:18 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:51:18 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20080506215326.GB3679@mooresystems.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080506215326.GB3679@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <b42465b90805061451o7490fe1dtb696949532dbad57@mail.gmail.com>

Nothing big.  Just a few words about it is all.

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
>
>  On Tue, May 06, 2008 at 03:22:21PM -0500, Kit Peters wrote:
>  > I'm doing some Catalyst stuff; I could talk about that.
>
>  That would be super. A few minutes on what Catalyst is and how you can
>  use it would be really interesting.  or, if you're really serious
>  about it, we can get the back room that has a projector screen if
>  you're interested in showing anything.
>
>  let me know.
>
>  -A
>
>



-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From djgoku at gmail.com  Tue May  6 14:56:02 2008
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:56:02 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90805061456g53e9be42qdcd6cccec2b15fee@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Kit Peters <popefelix at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Catalyst maybe?
>
> I'm doing some Catalyst stuff; I could talk about that.

I am through at least one of the tutorials catalyst::manual::tutorial,
but am very lost.
>
>> I have been thinking about getting the ebook of  "Catalyst by Jonathan Rockway". Anyone have any comments on this book?
>
> J. Rockway says: "Buy it several times.  I want to order a pizza."  :)

When I talked to him, he said it is a good starting point. And to not
worry about the comments left on
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1847190952 .

Jonathan

From djgoku at gmail.com  Tue May  6 15:06:25 2008
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 17:06:25 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90805061456g53e9be42qdcd6cccec2b15fee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061456g53e9be42qdcd6cccec2b15fee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90805061506nda174f1ke0f67c001d843734@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 4:56 PM, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Kit Peters <popefelix at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Catalyst maybe?
>>
>> I'm doing some Catalyst stuff; I could talk about that.
>
> I am through at least one of the tutorials catalyst::manual::tutorial,
> but am very lost.
>>
>>> I have been thinking about getting the ebook of  "Catalyst by Jonathan Rockway". Anyone have any comments on this book?
>>
>> J. Rockway says: "Buy it several times.  I want to order a pizza."  :)
>
> When I talked to him, he said it is a good starting point. And to not
> worry about the comments left on
> http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1847190952 .

>From #perl (irc.freenode.org):

21:33 < jrockway> ricardo and david expected the catalyst book to be a
book like TAOCP (by Knuth)... but it's just a tutorial
21:33 < jrockway> for people just learning

Jonathan

From popefelix at gmail.com  Tue May  6 15:13:48 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 17:13:48 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90805061506nda174f1ke0f67c001d843734@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061456g53e9be42qdcd6cccec2b15fee@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061506nda174f1ke0f67c001d843734@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b42465b90805061513n612b2e77r109cf620f9a6a772@mail.gmail.com>

If you're lost, come to #catalyst on irc.perl.org.  You might even get
mst to cry out, "FOR FUCK'S SAKE!".  :)

KP

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 5:06 PM, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 4:56 PM, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Kit Peters <popefelix at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>  Catalyst maybe?
>  >>
>  >> I'm doing some Catalyst stuff; I could talk about that.
>  >
>  > I am through at least one of the tutorials catalyst::manual::tutorial,
>  > but am very lost.
>  >>
>  >>> I have been thinking about getting the ebook of  "Catalyst by Jonathan Rockway". Anyone have any comments on this book?
>  >>
>  >> J. Rockway says: "Buy it several times.  I want to order a pizza."  :)
>  >
>  > When I talked to him, he said it is a good starting point. And to not
>  > worry about the comments left on
>  > http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1847190952 .
>
>  >From #perl (irc.freenode.org):
>
>  21:33 < jrockway> ricardo and david expected the catalyst book to be a
>  book like TAOCP (by Knuth)... but it's just a tutorial
>  21:33 < jrockway> for people just learning
>
>
>
>  Jonathan
>  _______________________________________________
>  kc mailing list
>  kc at pm.org
>  http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>



-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From jay at jays.net  Tue May  6 17:15:25 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:15:25 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <b42465b90805061513n612b2e77r109cf620f9a6a772@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061456g53e9be42qdcd6cccec2b15fee@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061506nda174f1ke0f67c001d843734@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061513n612b2e77r109cf620f9a6a772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83F742B3-17BF-44CC-A448-1F7C964EA362@jays.net>

On May 6, 2008, at 5:13 PM, Kit Peters wrote:
> You might even get mst to cry out, "FOR FUCK'S SAKE!".  :)

Usually written simply as "ffs".   :)

Thoroughly enjoying Catalyst in Omaha,

j



From sterling at hanenkamp.com  Tue May  6 18:42:52 2008
From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 20:42:52 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <83F742B3-17BF-44CC-A448-1F7C964EA362@jays.net>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061456g53e9be42qdcd6cccec2b15fee@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061506nda174f1ke0f67c001d843734@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061513n612b2e77r109cf620f9a6a772@mail.gmail.com>
	<83F742B3-17BF-44CC-A448-1F7C964EA362@jays.net>
Message-ID: <c185b40e0805061842v5254fa33m90be2128570d9e9a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:

> On May 6, 2008, at 5:13 PM, Kit Peters wrote:
> > You might even get mst to cry out, "FOR FUCK'S SAKE!".  :)
>
> Usually written simply as "ffs".   :)


But if you really want to see mst excited, join #jifty and start talking
about using it for your really big next project and how Jifty looks soooo
much cooler than Catalyst...

Cheers.
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From randall.munden at gmail.com  Tue May  6 19:02:30 2008
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 21:02:30 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <c185b40e0805061842v5254fa33m90be2128570d9e9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90805061259w1fbfcff9ya25e1cd6ad00c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061322t39bc3d8s3a8de9f017199034@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061456g53e9be42qdcd6cccec2b15fee@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90805061506nda174f1ke0f67c001d843734@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805061513n612b2e77r109cf620f9a6a772@mail.gmail.com>
	<83F742B3-17BF-44CC-A448-1F7C964EA362@jays.net>
	<c185b40e0805061842v5254fa33m90be2128570d9e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1467780a0805061902l6d4a3094qc89fea14c68b7fa0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm mostly through the cat toot.  There were a couple of
inconsistencies in the toot but I worked through them with minimal
head scratching.  I had done some mason in the past (and it worked
really great for what I was trying to accomplish)  and some work with
the mess that is struts, catalyst was rather refreshing.

I like catalyst, probably because it does things in a pearlish way
(and I'm soft and pearlish on the inside...not to be confused with my
outside which is a little soft and pear-shaped).

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:42 PM, Sterling Hanenkamp
<sterling at hanenkamp.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > On May 6, 2008, at 5:13 PM, Kit Peters wrote:
> > > You might even get mst to cry out, "FOR FUCK'S SAKE!".  :)
> >
> > Usually written simply as "ffs".   :)
>
> But if you really want to see mst excited, join #jifty and start talking
> about using it for your really big next project and how Jifty looks soooo
> much cooler than Catalyst...
>
> Cheers.
> _______________________________________________
>  kc mailing list
>  kc at pm.org
>  http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
--rjm--
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather

From developer at peelle.org  Wed May  7 05:59:12 2008
From: developer at peelle.org (James Carman)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 08:59:12 -0400
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
Message-ID: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>

Hey All,

I would like to know how to speed up project development time. Anyone have some good rapid development tips specific to Perl?

Things like IDE's, Frameworks, MVC's all sound nice, but it seems like I have to learn them to know if they are worth using. I would rather pick your brains. :-D

I am constantly hearing about Visual Studio from other developers I know. Yesterday I attended the Microsoft Hero's event in St. Louis, and watched a demo of their newest IDE/Framework. It is very nice. It is very integrated. I don't know of a current Linux IDE that can compete. On that note I would love to hear more about that subject. Also if there is no awesome IDE available, is anyone interested in collaborating to write one?

-- 
James Carman

>
>The May meeting is a week from today.
>
>Are their any topics you'd like to see come up in our rambling
>discussion of all things technical?
>
>If you don't come to meetings because no topics ever interest you,
>speak up!
>
>As a reminder, meetings are the 2nd Tuesday of the month at Barleys on
>Midland at 7pm.
>
>-Andy
>_______________________________________________
>kc mailing list
>kc at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc

From eric at alliances.org  Wed May  7 06:56:15 2008
From: eric at alliances.org (Eric Helvey)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 09:56:15 -0400
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
Message-ID: <1210168575.8118.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Probably your best bet for a fully integrated IDE is Eclipse.  I've been
using it for about four years and I've been extremely happy with it.
It's by far and away the most responsive, most stable Java application
I've used.  It's extensible - in fact it's not designed to be an IDE,
it's designed to be an IDE framework - you build the modules you need.  

It's got a nice Perl editing package called EPIC and good integration
with CVS, SVN and other code repository packages.

I'd certainly recommend looking at it before you start writing your own.

Eric


On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 08:59 -0400, James Carman wrote:
> Hey All,
> 
> I would like to know how to speed up project development time. Anyone have some good rapid development tips specific to Perl?
> 
> Things like IDE's, Frameworks, MVC's all sound nice, but it seems like I have to learn them to know if they are worth using. I would rather pick your brains. :-D
> 
> I am constantly hearing about Visual Studio from other developers I know. Yesterday I attended the Microsoft Hero's event in St. Louis, and watched a demo of their newest IDE/Framework. It is very nice. It is very integrated. I don't know of a current Linux IDE that can compete. On that note I would love to hear more about that subject. Also if there is no awesome IDE available, is anyone interested in collaborating to write one?
> 


From sterling at hanenkamp.com  Wed May  7 07:00:03 2008
From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:00:03 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
Message-ID: <c185b40e0805070700y7250e25taae9c84ef424b000@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:59 AM, James Carman <developer at peelle.org> wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> I would like to know how to speed up project development time. Anyone have
> some good rapid development tips specific to Perl?


Probably depends on the project.


> Things like IDE's, Frameworks, MVC's all sound nice, but it seems like I
> have to learn them to know if they are worth using. I would rather pick your
> brains. :-D


I don't find that IDEs actually speed anything up for me. I'm pretty
efficient with the non-IDE I have setup over the years that combines my own
custom shell scripts, aliases, Andy Lester's ack, and familiarity with vim.
There are certain aspects of IDEs that I have found useful in the past, but
I've generally felt like I was restricted in the process and spent more time
trying to fit my workflow into the IDE than gaining advantages from it.

The only IDE I've tried that came close was Komodo from ActiveState, but
even that only lasted a couple weeks of trial before I went back to my
existing setup.

The framework or MVC you want also depends upon your preferences and what
you're trying to achieve. For web projects, Catalyst is kind of the do-all,
be-all framework since you can plug just about anything into it without a
lot of effort. There are other frameworks in the same space that are useful
for different kinds of web apps, too. Jifty is great if you want a
full-stack framework with a lot of Ajax out of the box, for example.
However, if you aren't writing a web project, these frameworks are probably
not going to help you.

Cheers.
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From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Wed May  7 07:26:35 2008
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (Garrett Goebel)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 10:26:35 -0400
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
Message-ID: <4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>

James,

For an open source IDE which competes in the neighborhood with Visual 
Studio check out Eclipse: http://www.eclipse.org


My personal opinion is that 98% of developers using Microsoft and Visual 
Studio are doing mostly production line work. You can take fairly 
inexperienced and ignorant programmers and quickly put them to work 
snapping together reusable components to provide adequate if inflexible 
solutions. Microsoft tries hard to make such work require little 
underlying knowledge of the reusable components and how they fit 
together. So unless said programmer has the motivation to dig deeper, 
the slope of their learning curve and knowledge accrued from experience 
is fairly flat.

That said, there are plenty of really smart programmers out there using 
Visual Studio. The intellectually stagnant description of working with 
Microsoft stuff is probably more to do with the maturity of their 
product than anything else. My main gripe is the inflexibility and 
reliability problems when you go off the beaten path. But I haven't 
jumped on the .Net bandwagon... so perhaps even that is improving.

I guess what I'm driving at, is that if you are looking for tools to 
help you quickly snap together demos, and make solutions that only work 
well on the beaten path of Microsoft's "One True Way" (TM). Then look no 
further than Visual Studio, .Net, etc. On the other hand, there's no 
short cut to developing the knowledge, experience, and good habits which 
will make you a good programmer.


I too would like to hear advice and tips from the gray beards on how to 
improve productivity, efficiency and quality. ...Sounds like the old 
joke about optimization. Cheap, fast, good. Pick two. For large values 
of cheap and fast... pick one.

 From my limited experience, I've had good experiences with:
o  turn your bondage and discipline knob to the highest setting you can 
withstand
o  write your tests first, then implement the functionality to make them 
pass
o  programming in pairs (rarely supported by management in my experience)
o  write your code for readability
o  early optimization is the root of all evil
o  make a habit of learning and doing

All except perhaps the last are about writing maintainable code. All of 
which initially seem to really slow you down. But the time you waste 
trying to figure out how to patch, extend, or explain old code to 
whoever's stuck maintaining it drops much more significantly.

The last, making a habit of learning and doing, is probably the most 
important. Choosing a good enough approach to solving the problem at 
hand takes knowledge and experience. And IMHO how good the "good enough" 
choice is explains the orders of magnitude difference in the 
productivity of really great programmers and the rest of us. The general 
advice you hear here is to learn multiple programming languages and 
styles of programming. Find and read good code. Actively work in 
projects where you're able to participate on different levels. As a 
newbie, a part of the crew, and in a leadership capacity.


Whether your new to Perl or an old has been, I highly recommend picking 
up a copy of Perl Best Practices by Damian Conway. It boils down and 
rationalizes Conway's idea of his and the Perl Community's best 
programming practices. It is much easier to pick up good habits while 
your still learning Perl. But even guys like me can slowly whittle away 
at re-habiting ourselves.

cheers,

Garrett


James Carman wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> I would like to know how to speed up project development time. Anyone have some good rapid development tips specific to Perl?
>
> Things like IDE's, Frameworks, MVC's all sound nice, but it seems like I have to learn them to know if they are worth using. I would rather pick your brains. :-D
>
> I am constantly hearing about Visual Studio from other developers I know. Yesterday I attended the Microsoft Hero's event in St. Louis, and watched a demo of their newest IDE/Framework. It is very nice. It is very integrated. I don't know of a current Linux IDE that can compete. On that note I would love to hear more about that subject. Also if there is no awesome IDE available, is anyone interested in collaborating to write one?
>
>   


From dgreer75 at gmail.com  Wed May  7 08:45:42 2008
From: dgreer75 at gmail.com (Doug Greer)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:45:42 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
References: <20080506153320.GI398@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <aa6e07f20805070845v2d638cdds1e443a2641231588@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

I'm planning on using POE on a project at work.  I'm not quite at the point
where I could speak on the subject, but I'd like to discuss it with the
group.

Regards,
Doug Greer

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com>
wrote:

>
> The May meeting is a week from today.
>
> Are their any topics you'd like to see come up in our rambling
> discussion of all things technical?
>
> If you don't come to meetings because no topics ever interest you,
> speak up!
>
> As a reminder, meetings are the 2nd Tuesday of the month at Barleys on
> Midland at 7pm.
>
> -Andy
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
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From davidnicol at gmail.com  Wed May  7 08:58:26 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:58:26 +0000
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>

in my experience having worked with visual studio as well as the "my
OS is my IDE"
combination of xterm and gvim windows, and lots of Makefile targets,
the only thing
that an IDE provides that would be a nice-to-have in gvim is flexible
keyword completion
that knows about the valid symbols available at any point.  Having
this prevents cycles
of compile/fix due to miscapitalizations, for instance.  That feature
is really the I in IDE
in my opinion, as the editing tool must know the language being
written in well enough
to provide the correct subset of available symbols in any context.

Making that happen in Perl would be massively tricky, as the possible
method names
that can follow an object are open-ended and late-bound.  The best
possible practical
situation would be to be aware of stylistic conventions and package
namespaces, as well
as some kind of heuristic about what package an obejct is blessed
into, which is also
not available information at editing time (unlike in C/C++, where it
can be found in
unambiguous and exhaustive declarations.)

Does Komodo provide method name suggestions?

From developer at peelle.org  Wed May  7 09:56:27 2008
From: developer at peelle.org (James Carman)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 12:56:27 -0400
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
Message-ID: <33486255.1385851210179387652.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>

Difficulty of implementation is an interesting point I had not thought of. The Intellisence(microsoft term) is a nice feature, and I would consider it a welcome addition for my Perl coding even if it can only auto complete package definitions. Another feature of microsoft's intellisence that was nice for newer programmers was a library intelligence. If a programmer started using a feature/class that was not imported it would tell them the library they need to use it, and with just a click add that library at the top of their program.

In some sense I am comparing apples and oranges, and asking for an Aplorane. Thanks for the responces guys.

-- 
James Carman


>in my experience having worked with visual studio as well as the "my
>OS is my IDE"
>combination of xterm and gvim windows, and lots of Makefile targets,
>the only thing
>that an IDE provides that would be a nice-to-have in gvim is flexible
>keyword completion
>that knows about the valid symbols available at any point.  Having
>this prevents cycles
>of compile/fix due to miscapitalizations, for instance.  That feature
>is really the I in IDE
>in my opinion, as the editing tool must know the language being
>written in well enough
>to provide the correct subset of available symbols in any context.
>
>Making that happen in Perl would be massively tricky, as the possible
>method names
>that can follow an object are open-ended and late-bound.  The best
>possible practical
>situation would be to be aware of stylistic conventions and package
>namespaces, as well
>as some kind of heuristic about what package an obejct is blessed
>into, which is also
>not available information at editing time (unlike in C/C++, where it
>can be found in
>unambiguous and exhaustive declarations.)
>
>Does Komodo provide method name suggestions?
>_______________________________________________
>kc mailing list
>kc at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed May  7 10:29:04 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:29:04 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>

On Wed, May 07, 2008 at 03:58:26PM +0000, David Nicol wrote:
> the only thing
> that an IDE provides that would be a nice-to-have in gvim is flexible
> keyword completion
> that knows about the valid symbols available at any point.  Having
> this prevents cycles
> of compile/fix due to miscapitalizations, for instance.  That feature
> is really the I in IDE
> in my opinion, as the editing tool must know the language being
> written in well enough
> to provide the correct subset of available symbols in any context.

I use one of emacs's expansion features to complete things. It cycles
through all words in all open buffers to try to complete the word I'm
curently typing. It's not perfect since it makes lots of suggestions
that just don't make sense at that point and will miss method names
that I haven't defined or used in open files, but it's nice.

I think it will also use that TAGS or CTAGS business or whatever that
is. I've obviously never played with it.

I have used hooks in emacs to make it run the test suite when I M-x
compile, and stuff like that. It's nice, but I typically switch
windows and repeat the previous command instead.

not to start an editor war, but I've found that emacs makes a good
enough development environment for me. I suspect that's the same
experience that the (g)vi(m) crowd has had. The editors seem to be
"good enough" and making them better seems to be "real hard", so we're
stuck here for a while.

-Andy



From developer at peelle.org  Wed May  7 10:41:04 2008
From: developer at peelle.org (James Carman)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 13:41:04 -0400
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
Message-ID: <151767.1396781210182064198.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>

Garrett,

I am with you on most of your developer comments. I have used .NET for some contract work, and when I was in school. In that conference I went to yesterday, you could make some general assumptions based on the questions asked, and the material presented. 
The first and longest presentation was about web development with .NET and focused on astetics mostly.
The second was about creating and using office addins.
Most questions that were asked were about UI design stuff.
One of my friends who develops GIS software in .NET asked the speaker a question about a C# language feature, and unintentionally stumped him.

As far as inflexibility; what I have found is that there is a large learning curve for making .NET more flexible(fully using .NET) that one would expect. When a company needs something that is not standard most companies(I know about) with average developers will buy libraries or controls that do what they want rather than develop their own.

The things I see with .Net that impress me are:
Intellisence - A robust auto completion feature
Drag and drop of controls, code, database connections, and so on.
Integration of multiple languages. <- big for web.
increasingly better Data(RDBMS, XML, etc) support
Mulitple interfaces (design, code, wizard, GUI)
All of the above in one place.

I watched this guy doing a demo focusing on web. He used a library called LINQ to grab XML data, MSSQL data, and filesystem data, merg it, do JOIN's and ordering, and render it. He added a css layout(pre made layout). He added an ajax control to allow editing and adding of data with out doing a full postback. he also added in a javascript modul popup for the new additions.

He did all of this in 10-20 minutes while presenting to us. That impressed me. There are libraries to do most if not all of what I mentioned outside of .NET, and they are scattered.

In my opinion that integration along with the good tools is what seems to be saving so much time.

I agree nothing replaces good programming practices. What I want is something to supplement them. Preferably not MS.

I am downloading eclipse/epic now and will give it a try.

Once again Thanks for all of the comments. And sorry if I act obstinate I don't mean to.

-- 
James Carman


>James,
>
>For an open source IDE which competes in the neighborhood with Visual 
>Studio check out Eclipse: http://www.eclipse.org
>
>
>My personal opinion is that 98% of developers using Microsoft and Visual 
>Studio are doing mostly production line work. You can take fairly 
>inexperienced and ignorant programmers and quickly put them to work 
>snapping together reusable components to provide adequate if inflexible 
>solutions. Microsoft tries hard to make such work require little 
>underlying knowledge of the reusable components and how they fit 
>together. So unless said programmer has the motivation to dig deeper, 
>the slope of their learning curve and knowledge accrued from experience 
>is fairly flat.
>
>That said, there are plenty of really smart programmers out there using 
>Visual Studio. The intellectually stagnant description of working with 
>Microsoft stuff is probably more to do with the maturity of their 
>product than anything else. My main gripe is the inflexibility and 
>reliability problems when you go off the beaten path. But I haven't 
>jumped on the .Net bandwagon... so perhaps even that is improving.
>
>I guess what I'm driving at, is that if you are looking for tools to 
>help you quickly snap together demos, and make solutions that only work 
>well on the beaten path of Microsoft's "One True Way" (TM). Then look no 
>further than Visual Studio, .Net, etc. On the other hand, there's no 
>short cut to developing the knowledge, experience, and good habits which 
>will make you a good programmer.
>
>
>I too would like to hear advice and tips from the gray beards on how to 
>improve productivity, efficiency and quality. ...Sounds like the old 
>joke about optimization. Cheap, fast, good. Pick two. For large values 
>of cheap and fast... pick one.
>
> From my limited experience, I've had good experiences with:
>o  turn your bondage and discipline knob to the highest setting you can 
>withstand
>o  write your tests first, then implement the functionality to make them 
>pass
>o  programming in pairs (rarely supported by management in my experience)
>o  write your code for readability
>o  early optimization is the root of all evil
>o  make a habit of learning and doing
>
>All except perhaps the last are about writing maintainable code. All of 
>which initially seem to really slow you down. But the time you waste 
>trying to figure out how to patch, extend, or explain old code to 
>whoever's stuck maintaining it drops much more significantly.
>
>The last, making a habit of learning and doing, is probably the most 
>important. Choosing a good enough approach to solving the problem at 
>hand takes knowledge and experience. And IMHO how good the "good enough" 
>choice is explains the orders of magnitude difference in the 
>productivity of really great programmers and the rest of us. The general 
>advice you hear here is to learn multiple programming languages and 
>styles of programming. Find and read good code. Actively work in 
>projects where you're able to participate on different levels. As a 
>newbie, a part of the crew, and in a leadership capacity.
>
>
>Whether your new to Perl or an old has been, I highly recommend picking 
>up a copy of Perl Best Practices by Damian Conway. It boils down and 
>rationalizes Conway's idea of his and the Perl Community's best 
>programming practices. It is much easier to pick up good habits while 
>your still learning Perl. But even guys like me can slowly whittle away 
>at re-habiting ourselves.
>
>cheers,
>
>Garrett
>
>
>James Carman wrote:
>> Hey All,
>>
>> I would like to know how to speed up project development time. Anyone have 
>some good rapid development tips specific to Perl?
>>
>> Things like IDE's, Frameworks, MVC's all sound nice, but it seems like I 
>have to learn them to know if they are worth using. I would rather pick your 
>brains. :-D
>>
>> I am constantly hearing about Visual Studio from other developers I know. 
>Yesterday I attended the Microsoft Hero's event in St. Louis, and watched a 
>demo of their newest IDE/Framework. It is very nice. It is very integrated. I 
>don't know of a current Linux IDE that can compete. On that note I would love 
>to hear more about that subject. Also if there is no awesome IDE available, is 
>anyone interested in collaborating to write one?
>>
>>   
>

From davidnicol at gmail.com  Wed May  7 11:31:34 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:31:34 +0000
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805071131u7b06dc13x29c8c90824df2111@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
>
>  not to start an editor war, but I've found that emacs makes a good
>  enough development environment for me. I suspect that's the same
>  experience that the (g)vi(m) crowd has had. The editors seem to be
>  "good enough" and making them better seems to be "real hard", so we're
>  stuck here for a while.
>
>  -Andy

As I have said before and will presumably say again, new features are added to
free open-source projects when (1) the need for the feature felt strongly enough
by (2) a person able to add the feature (3) who would rather add the
feature than
devise and use a workaround.

All three pieces need to be in place.  The lack of an 'ignore' primitive in svn
is in my opinion the perfect example of a feature that has never been added
because anyone capable of adding the feature is also capable of composing
and using a little tool to tell svn to ignore a named file, with the additional
concern that anyone heavily using a version control system is using it
to facilitate
an actual project which they want to make progress on rather than
adding features
to placate mildly disgruntled newbies.

Luke Dashjr composed this last year and I had it in my .sig for a while:
svnignore() { EDITOR="perl -le'print for at ARGV' $@>>" svn pe svn:ignore .;}

From randall.munden at gmail.com  Wed May  7 12:04:26 2008
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:04:26 -0500
Subject: [Kc] May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <151767.1396781210182064198.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
References: <151767.1396781210182064198.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
Message-ID: <1467780a0805071204u6ff38c3ax2658d9419f496496@mail.gmail.com>

I'm of the opinion that IDEs don't solve many development problems
except those associated with a lack of experience -- and sometimes may
eccoriate  problems further through obfuscation of the true source.

However, if it is IDEs you want find one that you are comfortable
working in.  I've worked my through several over the years but find
myself still using vi often enough that I still have some proficiency
and I keep going back to UltraEdit for the sake of comfort.

Be sure to check out the free version of Komodo, Komodo Edit.  I used
the full version of it three or four years ago and it wasn't ready for
prime time then but I hear good things about it lately.

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:41 PM, James Carman <developer at peelle.org> wrote:
> Garrett,
>
>  I am with you on most of your developer comments. I have used .NET for some contract work, and when I was in school. In that conference I went to yesterday, you could make some general assumptions based on the questions asked, and the material presented.
>  The first and longest presentation was about web development with .NET and focused on astetics mostly.
>  The second was about creating and using office addins.
>  Most questions that were asked were about UI design stuff.
>  One of my friends who develops GIS software in .NET asked the speaker a question about a C# language feature, and unintentionally stumped him.
>
>  As far as inflexibility; what I have found is that there is a large learning curve for making .NET more flexible(fully using .NET) that one would expect. When a company needs something that is not standard most companies(I know about) with average developers will buy libraries or controls that do what they want rather than develop their own.
>
>  The things I see with .Net that impress me are:
>  Intellisence - A robust auto completion feature
>  Drag and drop of controls, code, database connections, and so on.
>  Integration of multiple languages. <- big for web.
>  increasingly better Data(RDBMS, XML, etc) support
>  Mulitple interfaces (design, code, wizard, GUI)
>  All of the above in one place.
>
>  I watched this guy doing a demo focusing on web. He used a library called LINQ to grab XML data, MSSQL data, and filesystem data, merg it, do JOIN's and ordering, and render it. He added a css layout(pre made layout). He added an ajax control to allow editing and adding of data with out doing a full postback. he also added in a javascript modul popup for the new additions.
>
>  He did all of this in 10-20 minutes while presenting to us. That impressed me. There are libraries to do most if not all of what I mentioned outside of .NET, and they are scattered.
>
>  In my opinion that integration along with the good tools is what seems to be saving so much time.
>
>  I agree nothing replaces good programming practices. What I want is something to supplement them. Preferably not MS.
>
>  I am downloading eclipse/epic now and will give it a try.
>
>  Once again Thanks for all of the comments. And sorry if I act obstinate I don't mean to.
>
>  --
>  James Carman
>
>
>
>
>  >James,
>  >
>  >For an open source IDE which competes in the neighborhood with Visual
>  >Studio check out Eclipse: http://www.eclipse.org
>  >
>  >
>  >My personal opinion is that 98% of developers using Microsoft and Visual
>  >Studio are doing mostly production line work. You can take fairly
>  >inexperienced and ignorant programmers and quickly put them to work
>  >snapping together reusable components to provide adequate if inflexible
>  >solutions. Microsoft tries hard to make such work require little
>  >underlying knowledge of the reusable components and how they fit
>  >together. So unless said programmer has the motivation to dig deeper,
>  >the slope of their learning curve and knowledge accrued from experience
>  >is fairly flat.
>  >
>  >That said, there are plenty of really smart programmers out there using
>  >Visual Studio. The intellectually stagnant description of working with
>  >Microsoft stuff is probably more to do with the maturity of their
>  >product than anything else. My main gripe is the inflexibility and
>  >reliability problems when you go off the beaten path. But I haven't
>  >jumped on the .Net bandwagon... so perhaps even that is improving.
>  >
>  >I guess what I'm driving at, is that if you are looking for tools to
>  >help you quickly snap together demos, and make solutions that only work
>  >well on the beaten path of Microsoft's "One True Way" (TM). Then look no
>  >further than Visual Studio, .Net, etc. On the other hand, there's no
>  >short cut to developing the knowledge, experience, and good habits which
>  >will make you a good programmer.
>  >
>  >
>  >I too would like to hear advice and tips from the gray beards on how to
>  >improve productivity, efficiency and quality. ...Sounds like the old
>  >joke about optimization. Cheap, fast, good. Pick two. For large values
>  >of cheap and fast... pick one.
>  >
>  > From my limited experience, I've had good experiences with:
>  >o  turn your bondage and discipline knob to the highest setting you can
>  >withstand
>  >o  write your tests first, then implement the functionality to make them
>  >pass
>  >o  programming in pairs (rarely supported by management in my experience)
>  >o  write your code for readability
>  >o  early optimization is the root of all evil
>  >o  make a habit of learning and doing
>  >
>  >All except perhaps the last are about writing maintainable code. All of
>  >which initially seem to really slow you down. But the time you waste
>  >trying to figure out how to patch, extend, or explain old code to
>  >whoever's stuck maintaining it drops much more significantly.
>  >
>  >The last, making a habit of learning and doing, is probably the most
>  >important. Choosing a good enough approach to solving the problem at
>  >hand takes knowledge and experience. And IMHO how good the "good enough"
>  >choice is explains the orders of magnitude difference in the
>  >productivity of really great programmers and the rest of us. The general
>  >advice you hear here is to learn multiple programming languages and
>  >styles of programming. Find and read good code. Actively work in
>  >projects where you're able to participate on different levels. As a
>  >newbie, a part of the crew, and in a leadership capacity.
>  >
>  >
>  >Whether your new to Perl or an old has been, I highly recommend picking
>  >up a copy of Perl Best Practices by Damian Conway. It boils down and
>  >rationalizes Conway's idea of his and the Perl Community's best
>  >programming practices. It is much easier to pick up good habits while
>  >your still learning Perl. But even guys like me can slowly whittle away
>  >at re-habiting ourselves.
>  >
>  >cheers,
>  >
>  >Garrett
>  >
>  >
>  >James Carman wrote:
>  >> Hey All,
>  >>
>  >> I would like to know how to speed up project development time. Anyone have
>  >some good rapid development tips specific to Perl?
>  >>
>  >> Things like IDE's, Frameworks, MVC's all sound nice, but it seems like I
>  >have to learn them to know if they are worth using. I would rather pick your
>  >brains. :-D
>  >>
>  >> I am constantly hearing about Visual Studio from other developers I know.
>  >Yesterday I attended the Microsoft Hero's event in St. Louis, and watched a
>  >demo of their newest IDE/Framework. It is very nice. It is very integrated. I
>  >don't know of a current Linux IDE that can compete. On that note I would love
>  >to hear more about that subject. Also if there is no awesome IDE available, is
>  >anyone interested in collaborating to write one?
>  >>
>  >>
>  >
>  _______________________________________________
>
>
> kc mailing list
>  kc at pm.org
>  http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>



-- 
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather

From sterling at hanenkamp.com  Wed May  7 12:35:04 2008
From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:35:04 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <c185b40e0805071235s1a73ba5apf98558b30dc436b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com>
wrote:

> not to start an editor war, but I've found that emacs makes a good
> enough development environment for me. I suspect that's the same
> experience that the (g)vi(m) crowd has had. The editors seem to be
> "good enough" and making them better seems to be "real hard", so we're
> stuck here for a while.
>

I guess I don't understand what's limited about either vim or emacs. Both
are extremely mature and reliable and have extensive plugin systems. If you
want a feature in either, it's likely there's been a plugin written to do
that or close to it. For example, I know of several plugins that may be
added to vim to make it a better editor of Perl (I use a few). The same is
true in Emacs. For example, I watched a screencast by jrockway recently for
a new REPL tool he wrote for Emacs.
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From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed May  7 12:57:52 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:57:52 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <c185b40e0805071235s1a73ba5apf98558b30dc436b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
	<c185b40e0805071235s1a73ba5apf98558b30dc436b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080507195752.GA29351@mooresystems.com>

On Wed, May 07, 2008 at 02:35:04PM -0500, Sterling Hanenkamp wrote:
> I guess I don't understand what's limited about either vim or emacs. Both

They don't understand perl, so it is limited in its ability to help me
write it better. It can't make completion suggestions based on my
current context. It can't help me refactor my code very well. It can't
do a lot of things that an active editor for other languages can do.

For instance, if I have a CGI object, which is an object with a
"param" method, I should be able to type:

$cgi->par

and it should offer "param" as a completion to that. Maybe I have to
hit my "autocomplete" button (M-/), or maybe if I pause it just offers
a little drop-down of options (think "Google Suggests"), but it should
know that "param" is an option, and "parmesan" is not. (Maybe it
should also know that that method takes 0 or 1 parameters.)

If if I have just defined a hash with a set of keys in it, and I type
the first half of one of the keys, it should suggest some of the keys
as possible completions.

Or, If I start typing a bare word, it may suggest some of the subs in
the current package or core as options.

Some other languages have editors that do some of these things. Perl
doesn't really (yet).

-Andy




From davidnicol at gmail.com  Wed May  7 13:13:54 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 20:13:54 +0000
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <20080507195752.GA29351@mooresystems.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
	<c185b40e0805071235s1a73ba5apf98558b30dc436b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507195752.GA29351@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805071313n5d4635c0nf0a560bdbc81afbb@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:

>  For instance, if I have a CGI object, which is an object with a
>  "param" method, I should be able to type:
>
>  $cgi->par

the conventions to understand such things are well established in practice;
the perl IDE could note that C<my $cgi= CGI->new> for instance occurred,
and adjust accordingly.

An editor supporting a style is a very strong motivation to use that
style; I started using FIXME in comments because gvim highlights it;
whenever I find myself having to use a different editor that
supposedly is aware of perl syntax I discover that it will match
active and commented-out closing brace pairs and then for the next few
weeks I will be very careful
to comment out some matching syntax whenever I comment out uneven braces.



>  and it should offer "param" as a completion to that. Maybe I have to
>  hit my "autocomplete" button (M-/), or maybe if I pause it just offers
>  a little drop-down of options (think "Google Suggests"), but it should
>  know that "param" is an option, and "parmesan" is not. (Maybe it
>  should also know that that method takes 0 or 1 parameters.)
>
>  If if I have just defined a hash with a set of keys in it, and I type
>  the first half of one of the keys, it should suggest some of the keys
>  as possible completions.
>
>  Or, If I start typing a bare word, it may suggest some of the subs in
>  the current package or core as options.
>
>  Some other languages have editors that do some of these things. Perl
>  doesn't really (yet).

All the features that "use strict" demands are syntactic and would
(provided that the editor can find the module files) be excellent
candidates for marking in an editor.

From sterling at hanenkamp.com  Wed May  7 13:53:34 2008
From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:53:34 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <20080507195752.GA29351@mooresystems.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
	<c185b40e0805071235s1a73ba5apf98558b30dc436b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507195752.GA29351@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <c185b40e0805071353scf6607ud4ff24e0d76b3f19@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, May 07, 2008 at 02:35:04PM -0500, Sterling Hanenkamp wrote:
> > I guess I don't understand what's limited about either vim or emacs.
> Both
>
> They don't understand perl, so it is limited in its ability to help me
> write it better. It can't make completion suggestions based on my
> current context. It can't help me refactor my code very well. It can't
> do a lot of things that an active editor for other languages can do.
>
> For instance, if I have a CGI object, which is an object with a
> "param" method, I should be able to type:
>
> $cgi->par


This is what ctags are for in vim and I believe emacs as well. Here's a perl
module for helping out in Vim:

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Tags/

Also for Vim there's the Perl-support module which does a number of things.
I don't use it since I didn't like it when I last tried it a year or two
ago, but here's another helpful Perl plugin for vim:

http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=556

These features do exist in vim and I'm pretty certain similar ones exist in
emacs. You do have to go through the additional effort of installing and
configuring the modules.

I should also point out that I don't use ctags or this kind of
autocompletion on purpose because I find it encourages me to be too lazy and
I start forgetting things. (I'm not suggesting that's the case for everyone,
but it is my problem. I also have a tendency to write code that is generated
on the fly, which makes such completion even more difficult.) I am not sure
how well these things parse and work, but from past experience, I do know
they work somewhat. I believe Komodo and EPIC for Eclipse also provide
autocompletion for Perl where it can.

So, such things do exist, but they may not work as well as one would want
(seriously, what does?). If you have an idea for improving them, go hack! :)

Cheers,
Sterling
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From emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com  Thu May  8 06:24:40 2008
From: emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com (Emmanuel Mejias)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:24:40 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Removing users from sudoers
Message-ID: <38feac7e0805080624w6f7303ds5298f76b8023d9c9@mail.gmail.com>

Okay guys, I'm stuck. Not sure where to go from here.

 I'm trying to create a script to remove users from sudoers on multiple
servers. I'm able to do this with a one-line script using sed, but only if
it's on one server.
*Example: sed '/someuser/d' /host/local/etc/sudoers*
Also, I think the problem with this one-line script is that I would have to
redirect my output to another sudoers file (sudoers.new) and then mv that
file to sudoers for it to work more effectively.

Since the hosts are all tied to the ldap server I can just run the script
from there by changing the host path without having to log into multiple
servers.

This is what I have so far in Perl, but I'm not sure how to continue or how
to add the sed line in here.

*#!/usr/bin/perl -w

# this script removes a user from sudoers file

@mysites = ("Alpha", "Echo", "India", "Joliet", "Kilo", "November",
                    "Papa", "Uniform", "Sierra", "Wiskey");

open(FILE, "@mysite/local/etc/sudoers");
@site = <FILE>;
close(FILE);*


I know I need to throw in a for loop, maybe a few, I don't know. I'm stuck!
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From sterling at hanenkamp.com  Thu May  8 06:44:25 2008
From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:44:25 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Removing users from sudoers
In-Reply-To: <38feac7e0805080624w6f7303ds5298f76b8023d9c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38feac7e0805080624w6f7303ds5298f76b8023d9c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c185b40e0805080644q9f3b945gdf15ae5e4c3073ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Emmanuel Mejias <emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> This is what I have so far in Perl, but I'm not sure how to continue or how
> to add the sed line in here.
>
> *#!/usr/bin/perl -w
>
> # this script removes a user from sudoers file
>
> @mysites = ("Alpha", "Echo", "India", "Joliet", "Kilo", "November",
>                     "Papa", "Uniform", "Sierra", "Wiskey");
>
> open(FILE, "@mysite/local/etc/sudoers");
> @site = <FILE>;
> close(FILE);*
>
>
> I know I need to throw in a for loop, maybe a few, I don't know. I'm stuck!
>

Yep, you'll need a loop to go over the locations and another to apply the
s/// replacement to the lines of the file.

for my $site (@mysites) {
  open FILE, "$site/local/etc/sudoers" or die "cannot open sudoers for
$site: $!";
  while (<FILE>) { s/someuser// }
  close FILE;
}
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From popefelix at gmail.com  Thu May  8 06:47:38 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:47:38 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Removing users from sudoers
In-Reply-To: <c185b40e0805080644q9f3b945gdf15ae5e4c3073ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38feac7e0805080624w6f7303ds5298f76b8023d9c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<c185b40e0805080644q9f3b945gdf15ae5e4c3073ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b42465b90805080647r7b4e2fdcu503c2c9f349ebcf0@mail.gmail.com>

Or you could just do 'sed -i'.  That will edit the file in-place.  Not
quite as fun as working it up in Perl, but a bit quicker. :)

KP

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Sterling Hanenkamp
<sterling at hanenkamp.com> wrote:

> Yep, you'll need a loop to go over the locations and another to apply the
> s/// replacement to the lines of the file.


-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Thu May  8 07:01:57 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:01:57 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Removing users from sudoers
In-Reply-To: <b42465b90805080647r7b4e2fdcu503c2c9f349ebcf0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38feac7e0805080624w6f7303ds5298f76b8023d9c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<c185b40e0805080644q9f3b945gdf15ae5e4c3073ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805080647r7b4e2fdcu503c2c9f349ebcf0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080508140157.GA2547@mooresystems.com>

On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:47:38AM -0500, Kit Peters wrote:
> Or you could just do 'sed -i'.  That will edit the file in-place.  Not
> quite as fun as working it up in Perl, but a bit quicker. :)

kinda reminds me of 'perl -i' for some reason. ;)

-A

From frank at wiles.org  Thu May  8 09:50:29 2008
From: frank at wiles.org (Frank Wiles)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:50:29 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20805071131u7b06dc13x29c8c90824df2111@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
	<934f64a20805071131u7b06dc13x29c8c90824df2111@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080508115029.6216b7de.frank@wiles.org>

On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:31:34 +0000
"David Nicol" <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:

> All three pieces need to be in place.  The lack of an 'ignore'
> primitive in svn is in my opinion the perfect example of a feature
> that has never been added because anyone capable of adding the
> feature is also capable of composing and using a little tool to tell
> svn to ignore a named file, with the additional concern that anyone
> heavily using a version control system is using it to facilitate
> an actual project which they want to make progress on rather than
> adding features
> to placate mildly disgruntled newbies.

  Actually Subversion has had an ignore feature for quite some
  time. Check out: 

  http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch07s02.html

  And search for 'svn:ignore'. 

 -------------------------------------------------------
   Frank Wiles, Revolution Systems, LLC. 
     Personal : frank at wiles.org  http://www.wiles.org
     Work     : frank at revsys.com http://www.revsys.com 


From davidnicol at gmail.com  Thu May  8 10:13:08 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:13:08 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <20080508115029.6216b7de.frank@wiles.org>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
	<934f64a20805071131u7b06dc13x29c8c90824df2111@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080508115029.6216b7de.frank@wiles.org>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805081013v4fa5295ds48432ba47f936d0c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Frank Wiles <frank at wiles.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:31:34 +0000
> "David Nicol" <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> All three pieces need to be in place.  The lack of an 'ignore'
>> primitive in svn is in my opinion the perfect example of a feature

>  Actually Subversion has had an ignore feature for quite some
>  time.


Not the /feature/ the /primitive/ by which I meant, a parameter to the
svn utility that twiddles that particular property directly, and which
would get listed when you invoke the "help" primitive with "svn help."

yes, you can set the svn:ignore property in a directory to include files.
What is lacking is "ignore" as a svn command-line primitive outside
of propset.  Which is why Luke's EDITOR-setting hack works.

is "primitive" weird jargon?

From davidnicol at gmail.com  Thu May  8 10:16:13 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:16:13 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Removing users from sudoers
In-Reply-To: <c185b40e0805080644q9f3b945gdf15ae5e4c3073ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38feac7e0805080624w6f7303ds5298f76b8023d9c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<c185b40e0805080644q9f3b945gdf15ae5e4c3073ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805081016j4875bd3eged88f7cb78b91170@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Sterling Hanenkamp
<sterling at hanenkamp.com> wrote:

> for my $site (@mysites) {
>   open FILE, "$site/local/etc/sudoers" or die "cannot open sudoers for
> $site: $!";
>   while (<FILE>) { s/someuser// }
>   close FILE;
> }

you left writing $_ anywhere after you modified it out as an exercise
for the reader, yes?

From frank at wiles.org  Thu May  8 10:27:50 2008
From: frank at wiles.org (Frank Wiles)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:27:50 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20805081013v4fa5295ds48432ba47f936d0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<4821BC1B.9020501@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20805070858p63f8efa4nb41400be906260ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080507172904.GC28146@mooresystems.com>
	<934f64a20805071131u7b06dc13x29c8c90824df2111@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080508115029.6216b7de.frank@wiles.org>
	<934f64a20805081013v4fa5295ds48432ba47f936d0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080508122750.f4c65bbb.frank@wiles.org>

On Thu, 8 May 2008 12:13:08 -0500
"David Nicol" <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Frank Wiles <frank at wiles.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:31:34 +0000
> > "David Nicol" <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> All three pieces need to be in place.  The lack of an 'ignore'
> >> primitive in svn is in my opinion the perfect example of a feature
> 
> >  Actually Subversion has had an ignore feature for quite some
> >  time.
> 
> 
> Not the /feature/ the /primitive/ by which I meant, a parameter to the
> svn utility that twiddles that particular property directly, and which
> would get listed when you invoke the "help" primitive with "svn help."
> 
> yes, you can set the svn:ignore property in a directory to include
> files. What is lacking is "ignore" as a svn command-line primitive
> outside of propset.  Which is why Luke's EDITOR-setting hack works.
> 
> is "primitive" weird jargon?

  Ok I'm following you now.  I don't think primitive is weird, just
  confused me as they are typically called "properties" in Subversion
  jargon. 

 -------------------------------------------------------
   Frank Wiles, Revolution Systems, LLC. 
     Personal : frank at wiles.org  http://www.wiles.org
     Work     : frank at revsys.com http://www.revsys.com 


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu May  8 11:50:08 2008
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:50:08 -0700
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <20080508122750.f4c65bbb.frank@wiles.org>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<934f64a20805081013v4fa5295ds48432ba47f936d0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080508122750.f4c65bbb.frank@wiles.org>
Message-ID: <200805081150.09117.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Frank Wiles
# on Thursday 08 May 2008:

>> is "primitive" weird jargon?
>
>? Ok I'm following you now. ?I don't think primitive is weird, just
>? confused me as they are typically called "properties" in Subversion
>? jargon.

Well, David meant 'action', 'verb', or 'command' -- not 'property'.  I 
would say though that 'primitive' includes 'noun' (i.e. 'property') 
and 'verb', so 'primitive' is certainly ambiguous.

So, uh... pluggable verbs please?

--Eric
-- 
The first rule about Debian is you don't talk about Debian
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From davidnicol at gmail.com  Thu May  8 12:34:39 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:34:39 -0500
Subject: [Kc] editors and IDEs (was: May Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <200805081150.09117.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <24220027.1329551210165152784.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<934f64a20805081013v4fa5295ds48432ba47f936d0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080508122750.f4c65bbb.frank@wiles.org>
	<200805081150.09117.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805081234wd15fd1dlb82dbc13305e1f51@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, David meant 'action', 'verb', or 'command' -- not 'property'.

I meant "thing you can type on the command line after 'svn [-options]'
and something happens other than you get told "unknown command / type
'svn help' for help"

so I guess I could have put "command" to be conform to svn.  I didn't,
I used a piece of jargon, because I'm not whining about the lack of
that particular feature (a real-easy way to do smoething that is
not-that-difficult) but suggesting it as the best example I know of a
feature that will never get added to an open-source project maintained
by volunteers.  Pondering that fact (well it is now possible that
someone will go and add it, just to   ruin my little lecture) is what
led me to the list of three things that have to be in place before a
feature gets added to an open-source project maintained by volunteers.
 The benefit of making the change has to be greater than the cost of
the workaround, to someone who has the skills to make the change.

adding an "ignore" command to svn fails the test, because anyone who
could add it would also be able to script an external tool to modify
the property directly, using the propset command.

back to work, everyone

From sterling at hanenkamp.com  Thu May  8 12:47:38 2008
From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:47:38 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Removing users from sudoers
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20805081016j4875bd3eged88f7cb78b91170@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38feac7e0805080624w6f7303ds5298f76b8023d9c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<c185b40e0805080644q9f3b945gdf15ae5e4c3073ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20805081016j4875bd3eged88f7cb78b91170@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c185b40e0805081247n50d0761cy1a72607c950629ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:16 PM, David Nicol <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Sterling Hanenkamp
> <sterling at hanenkamp.com> wrote:
>
> > for my $site (@mysites) {
> >   open FILE, "$site/local/etc/sudoers" or die "cannot open sudoers for
> > $site: $!";
> >   while (<FILE>) { s/someuser// }
> >   close FILE;
> > }
>
> you left writing $_ anywhere after you modified it out as an exercise
> for the reader, yes?
>


lol... apparently :-p
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From emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com  Mon May 12 11:55:43 2008
From: emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com (Emmanuel Mejias)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:55:43 -0500
Subject: [Kc] ldap script
Message-ID: <38feac7e0805121155h7b589dccqc33efeaedf7150b8@mail.gmail.com>

anyone familiar with ldap? We use a password script to let users update
their password and I wanted to throw in something that says the password is
only good for 90 or 120 days. So I'm wondering if I change the value on this
line from 0 to say 90 or 120 if it will work.

my $PASSWORD_AGE_DAYS = 0;
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From frank at wiles.org  Mon May 12 12:43:44 2008
From: frank at wiles.org (Frank Wiles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:43:44 -0500
Subject: [Kc] ldap script
In-Reply-To: <38feac7e0805121155h7b589dccqc33efeaedf7150b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38feac7e0805121155h7b589dccqc33efeaedf7150b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080512144344.a7a903f9.frank@wiles.org>

On Mon, 12 May 2008 13:55:43 -0500
"Emmanuel Mejias" <emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com> wrote:

> anyone familiar with ldap? We use a password script to let users
> update their password and I wanted to throw in something that says
> the password is only good for 90 or 120 days. So I'm wondering if I
> change the value on this line from 0 to say 90 or 120 if it will work.
> 
> my $PASSWORD_AGE_DAYS = 0;

  I would *assume* that would work, but it really depends on what
  the script does with that value obviously. :) 

 -------------------------------------------------------
   Frank Wiles, Revolution Systems, LLC. 
     Personal : frank at wiles.org  http://www.wiles.org
     Work     : frank at revsys.com http://www.revsys.com 


From emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com  Mon May 12 13:46:09 2008
From: emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com (Emmanuel Mejias)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:46:09 -0500
Subject: [Kc] ldap script
In-Reply-To: <20080512144344.a7a903f9.frank@wiles.org>
References: <38feac7e0805121155h7b589dccqc33efeaedf7150b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080512144344.a7a903f9.frank@wiles.org>
Message-ID: <38feac7e0805121346v66b2b85as59f1a2fa8395153e@mail.gmail.com>

right! yeah...that's what i was thinking as well. i'll have to test it.

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Frank Wiles <frank at wiles.org> wrote:

>  On Mon, 12 May 2008 13:55:43 -0500
> "Emmanuel Mejias" <emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > anyone familiar with ldap? We use a password script to let users
> > update their password and I wanted to throw in something that says
> > the password is only good for 90 or 120 days. So I'm wondering if I
> > change the value on this line from 0 to say 90 or 120 if it will work.
> >
> > my $PASSWORD_AGE_DAYS = 0;
>
>  I would *assume* that would work, but it really depends on what
>  the script does with that value obviously. :)
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------
>   Frank Wiles, Revolution Systems, LLC.
>     Personal : frank at wiles.org  http://www.wiles.org
>     Work     : frank at revsys.com http://www.revsys.com
>
>
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From jay at jays.net  Mon May 12 19:40:37 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 21:40:37 -0500
Subject: [Kc] BarCampKC just happened?
Message-ID: <4EC14C9C-FA5A-4F85-9470-650B9550ED4C@jays.net>

Did anyone go to this?

    http://barcamp.org/BarCampKC

j
Omaha.pm
http://barcamp.org/BarCampOmaha
http://omaha.pm.org


From randall.munden at gmail.com  Mon May 12 19:48:31 2008
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 21:48:31 -0500
Subject: [Kc] BarCampKC just happened?
In-Reply-To: <4EC14C9C-FA5A-4F85-9470-650B9550ED4C@jays.net>
References: <4EC14C9C-FA5A-4F85-9470-650B9550ED4C@jays.net>
Message-ID: <1467780a0805121948u116e5f08y46b3bcd5e6a7d578@mail.gmail.com>

Never heard of it

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:
> Did anyone go to this?
>
>    http://barcamp.org/BarCampKC
>
> j
> Omaha.pm
> http://barcamp.org/BarCampOmaha
> http://omaha.pm.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>



--rjm--
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue May 13 06:54:16 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:54:16 -0500
Subject: [Kc] BarCampKC just happened?
In-Reply-To: <4EC14C9C-FA5A-4F85-9470-650B9550ED4C@jays.net>
References: <4EC14C9C-FA5A-4F85-9470-650B9550ED4C@jays.net>
Message-ID: <20080513135416.GA24588@mooresystems.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 09:40:37PM -0500, Jay Hannah wrote:
> Did anyone go to this?
> 
>     http://barcamp.org/BarCampKC

I had heard of BarCamp and knew there were some in different cities,
but never knew they were heading to KC. That's unfortunate. I would
have liked to attend.

-A


From popefelix at gmail.com  Thu May 15 09:14:29 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:14:29 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Missed the May meeting
Message-ID: <b42465b90805150914m30a99bffs9d97cd2ed0b00b75@mail.gmail.com>

I apologize for that, as I had meant to talk a little about Catalyst.
Next month?

-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu May 15 09:25:14 2008
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:25:14 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Missed the May meeting
In-Reply-To: <b42465b90805150914m30a99bffs9d97cd2ed0b00b75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b42465b90805150914m30a99bffs9d97cd2ed0b00b75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90805150925l45dd1797ocef7b1d4dbf36a55@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Kit Peters <popefelix at gmail.com> wrote:
> I apologize for that, as I had meant to talk a little about Catalyst.
> Next month?

Sounds good with me, I will be there next meeting also. I will also be
starting the Catalyst book by Jonathan Rockway pretty soon.

Jonathan

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Thu May 15 09:25:43 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:25:43 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Missed the May meeting
In-Reply-To: <b42465b90805150914m30a99bffs9d97cd2ed0b00b75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b42465b90805150914m30a99bffs9d97cd2ed0b00b75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6c70d2980805150925r4c9abe93h27152a2be3e2a85f@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Kit Peters <popefelix at gmail.com> wrote:
> I apologize for that, as I had meant to talk a little about Catalyst.
> Next month?

Sure, that would be great!

It looks like the June meeting is on June 10th.

-Andy

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue May 20 08:53:00 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:53:00 -0500
Subject: [Kc] [pm_groups] YAPC::NA 2008
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70805200844i4f8fd4fdp1efaa543ae4f37b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49d805d70805200844i4f8fd4fdp1efaa543ae4f37b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6c70d2980805200853m4e903184kc0b5b7166aecd329@mail.gmail.com>

Hi KC PM'ers:

I'm passing along a reminder that the YAPC this year is in Chicago.
That's about as close and easy to get to as any YAPC can be (unless we
host one here). So, I encourage you to go. It's a three day conference
that is put on for perl users by perl users. They take tons of steps
to make sure that it's affordable by all, including charging only $100
for the conference and arranging dorms for people to stay in.

I've been a few times and will be going back. If you have any
questions, feel free to ask me, or to head right to the conference
website: http://yapc.org/America/

-Andy


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Joshua McAdams <joshua.mcadams at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Subject: [pm_groups] YAPC::NA 2008
To: pm_groups at pm.org


Hello all PM group list owners, I just wanted to send out an reminder
to let everyone know that YAPC::NA 2008 is less than a month away.
This year we are hosting the conference in Chicago, IL, USA and have
three days of Perl talks lined up, along with additional classes,
hack-a-thons, and a job fair and expo.  The conference website is
http://yapc.org/America/

Please forward this on to your respective PM group lists if you think
that your members might be interested.

Thanks,
Josh McAdams
--
Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org

pm_groups mailing list
pm_groups at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Mon May 26 14:57:15 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 16:57:15 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the Cowtown
	Computer Congress
In-Reply-To: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
Message-ID: <6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>

Here's some information about a new, local organization that may be
interesting to some of you.

-Andy


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jur1st <jur1st at cowtowncomputercongress.org>
Date: Mon, May 26, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Subject: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the Cowtown
Computer Congress


Gentlemen,
I'd like to invite you and the rest of the Kansas City Perl Mongers to
participate in the Cowtown Computer Congress.
First, a bit about myself.  I'm an attorney working as an electronic
discovery consultant for a large law firm here in Kansas City.  I've
been very involved with various technology communities for quite some
time now and had always been interested in creating a physical
location for local user groups to use for meetings, projects and other
collaboration.

Recently I received an offer for some square footage at a very nice
price and am beginning the organizational process.
We will be having our first meeting this Thursday at 6:00 at the
Flying Saucer in the Power and Light district and I'd love to have you
be there.
More information can be found at the CCCKC wiki at
http://cowtowncomputercongress.org and a post I made at my website a
few weeks back at http://john-benson.com/wordpress/?p=17

Please let me know if you have any questions,

John Benson
816-668-6766 - cell

From darylvf at gmail.com  Tue May 27 08:46:17 2008
From: darylvf at gmail.com (Daryl Fallin)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:46:17 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the
	Cowtown Computer Congress
In-Reply-To: <6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
	<6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f7a846090805270846m4b758abdy81ed5b3853cc7477@mail.gmail.com>

I plan on being there.  Anyone else?

And while I am at this, does anyone have an alternate to use to
connect to an Oracle database other than using DBD::Oracle?


On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
> Here's some information about a new, local organization that may be
> interesting to some of you.
>
> -Andy
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jur1st <jur1st at cowtowncomputercongress.org>
> Date: Mon, May 26, 2008 at 2:25 PM
> Subject: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the Cowtown
> Computer Congress
>
>
> Gentlemen,
> I'd like to invite you and the rest of the Kansas City Perl Mongers to
> participate in the Cowtown Computer Congress.
> First, a bit about myself.  I'm an attorney working as an electronic
> discovery consultant for a large law firm here in Kansas City.  I've
> been very involved with various technology communities for quite some
> time now and had always been interested in creating a physical
> location for local user groups to use for meetings, projects and other
> collaboration.
>
> Recently I received an offer for some square footage at a very nice
> price and am beginning the organizational process.
> We will be having our first meeting this Thursday at 6:00 at the
> Flying Saucer in the Power and Light district and I'd love to have you
> be there.
> More information can be found at the CCCKC wiki at
> http://cowtowncomputercongress.org and a post I made at my website a
> few weeks back at http://john-benson.com/wordpress/?p=17
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions,
>
> John Benson
> 816-668-6766 - cell
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>

From popefelix at gmail.com  Tue May 27 09:08:10 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:08:10 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the
	Cowtown Computer Congress
In-Reply-To: <f7a846090805270846m4b758abdy81ed5b3853cc7477@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
	<6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
	<f7a846090805270846m4b758abdy81ed5b3853cc7477@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b42465b90805270908q4bfc9e1cw29e3fdff2ba117c3@mail.gmail.com>

What's wrong with DBD::Oracle?  That's what I'm using, though I'm
using DBIx::Class on top of it.

KP

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Daryl Fallin <darylvf at gmail.com> wrote:
> does anyone have an alternate to use to connect to an Oracle database other than using DBD::Oracle?




-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From davidnicol at gmail.com  Tue May 27 09:20:25 2008
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:20:25 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the
	Cowtown Computer Congress
In-Reply-To: <6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
	<6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20805270920p2d66ed18r43fadc5db906b628@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone opposed to KCPM affiliating with the organization?  I motion we do so.


> More information can be found at the CCCKC wiki at
> http://cowtowncomputercongress.org and a post I made at my website a
> few weeks back at http://john-benson.com/wordpress/?p=17

From popefelix at gmail.com  Tue May 27 09:23:37 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:23:37 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the
	Cowtown Computer Congress
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20805270920p2d66ed18r43fadc5db906b628@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
	<6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20805270920p2d66ed18r43fadc5db906b628@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b42465b90805270923o63d01f87ya232d182cb5815d4@mail.gmail.com>

Seconded.

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 11:20 AM, David Nicol <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone opposed to KCPM affiliating with the organization?  I motion we do so.

-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From darylvf at gmail.com  Tue May 27 11:43:36 2008
From: darylvf at gmail.com (Daryl Fallin)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:43:36 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Trouble with DBD::Oracle
Message-ID: <f7a846090805271143w4c67d593p9e106931e76b4bb0@mail.gmail.com>

All -

I am trying to install DBD::Oracle and have run into the following problem.

After I run 'perl Makefile.PL' (which completes successfully)
I try and run 'make' and get the following error.

# make
rm -f blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so
LD_RUN_PATH="/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1/lib:/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1/rdbms/lib"
cc  -shared -L/usr/local/lib64 Oracle.o dbdimp.o oci8.o -m32
-L/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//rdbms//lib32/
-L/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//lib32/
-L/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//lib32/stubs/
-lclntsh   `cat
/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//lib/sysliblist` -ldl
-lm  -lpthread -o blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so  \
                \

/usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
cannot find -lclntsh
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so] Error 1

Then from the DBD readme files I have tried the following

run $ORACLE_HOME/bin/genclntsh

# ./bin/genclntsh
/usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
skipping incompatible /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/libgcc.a
when searching for -lgcc
/usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
cannot find -lgcc
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
genclntsh: Failed to link libclntsh.so.11.1

I have tried to modify genclntsh to include the correct c libs problem
by modifying SYSLIBS, but they all fail

Ones I have tried
============
SYSLIBS="-Wl,-relax `cat ${OLIB}/sysliblist` -lc ${LAIO}"

SYSLIBS="-Wl,-relax `cat ${OLIB}/sysliblist` -lc ${LAIO}
-L/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/2.95.3 -lgcc"

SYSLIBS="-Wl,-relax `cat ${OLIB}/sysliblist` -lc ${LAIO}
-L/usr//lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/ -lgcc"

SYSLIBS="-L/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/2.95.3 -lgcc"


Any help would be appreciated.

- Daryl

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue May 27 11:47:29 2008
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:47:29 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the
	Cowtown Computer Congress
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20805270920p2d66ed18r43fadc5db906b628@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
	<6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20805270920p2d66ed18r43fadc5db906b628@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6c70d2980805271147s2c213bdap5c9fae2345150997@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 11:20 AM, David Nicol <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone opposed to KCPM affiliating with the organization?  I motion we do so.

sure!

Will any of our members be attending the meeting Thursday?

If you do, please report back any details you gather.

Thanks!
-Andy

From andy at petdance.com  Tue May 27 11:49:24 2008
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:49:24 -0500
Subject: [Kc] new Perl::Critic::Bangs
In-Reply-To: <6c70d2980805271147s2c213bdap5c9fae2345150997@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
	<6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20805270920p2d66ed18r43fadc5db906b628@mail.gmail.com>
	<6c70d2980805271147s2c213bdap5c9fae2345150997@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30452A25-8998-4167-A85D-893BF7BCA1AD@petdance.com>


I've released an update to Perl::Critic::Bangs, a set of supplementary  
policies for Perl::Critic.  KC's very own Andrew Moore wrote a bunch  
of them.

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Critic-Bangs/

xoxo,
Andy

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From popefelix at gmail.com  Tue May 27 11:53:56 2008
From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:53:56 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Trouble with DBD::Oracle
In-Reply-To: <f7a846090805271143w4c67d593p9e106931e76b4bb0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7a846090805271143w4c67d593p9e106931e76b4bb0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b42465b90805271153l692a5c49xef5c1071505ffc93@mail.gmail.com>

Have you tried using the 10.x client libs?  You can get them for free
from Oracle.

KP

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Daryl Fallin <darylvf at gmail.com> wrote:
> All -
>
> I am trying to install DBD::Oracle and have run into the following problem.
>
> After I run 'perl Makefile.PL' (which completes successfully)
> I try and run 'make' and get the following error.
>
> # make
> rm -f blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so
> LD_RUN_PATH="/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1/lib:/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1/rdbms/lib"
> cc  -shared -L/usr/local/lib64 Oracle.o dbdimp.o oci8.o -m32
> -L/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//rdbms//lib32/
> -L/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//lib32/
> -L/home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//lib32/stubs/
> -lclntsh   `cat
> /home/daryl/app/daryl/product/11.1.0/client_1//lib/sysliblist` -ldl
> -lm  -lpthread -o blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so  \
>                \
>
> /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
> cannot find -lclntsh
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make: *** [blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so] Error 1
>
> Then from the DBD readme files I have tried the following
>
> run $ORACLE_HOME/bin/genclntsh
>
> # ./bin/genclntsh
> /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
> skipping incompatible /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/libgcc.a
> when searching for -lgcc
> /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
> cannot find -lgcc
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> genclntsh: Failed to link libclntsh.so.11.1
>
> I have tried to modify genclntsh to include the correct c libs problem
> by modifying SYSLIBS, but they all fail
>
> Ones I have tried
> ============
> SYSLIBS="-Wl,-relax `cat ${OLIB}/sysliblist` -lc ${LAIO}"
>
> SYSLIBS="-Wl,-relax `cat ${OLIB}/sysliblist` -lc ${LAIO}
> -L/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/2.95.3 -lgcc"
>
> SYSLIBS="-Wl,-relax `cat ${OLIB}/sysliblist` -lc ${LAIO}
> -L/usr//lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/ -lgcc"
>
> SYSLIBS="-L/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/2.95.3 -lgcc"
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> - Daryl
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>



-- 
GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7

From frank at wiles.org  Tue May 27 12:30:43 2008
From: frank at wiles.org (Frank Wiles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:30:43 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Trouble with DBD::Oracle
In-Reply-To: <b42465b90805271153l692a5c49xef5c1071505ffc93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7a846090805271143w4c67d593p9e106931e76b4bb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805271153l692a5c49xef5c1071505ffc93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080527143043.c2e95e7d.frank@wiles.org>

On Tue, 27 May 2008 13:53:56 -0500
"Kit Peters" <popefelix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you tried using the 10.x client libs?  You can get them for free
> from Oracle.

  In addition to that advice, it might be a 32-bit vs 64-bit 
  issue.  I ran into a CPAN module just last week that refused
  to compile when using a 64-bit Perl install as it was linking
  to a 32-bit shared library. 

 -------------------------------------------------------
   Frank Wiles, Revolution Systems, LLC. 
     Personal : frank at wiles.org  http://www.wiles.org
     Work     : frank at revsys.com http://www.revsys.com 


From djgoku at gmail.com  Tue May 27 12:40:08 2008
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:40:08 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Inviting the perl mongers to participate in the
	Cowtown Computer Congress
In-Reply-To: <f7a846090805270846m4b758abdy81ed5b3853cc7477@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C382438-51FE-463F-A7BE-CE61D3C53BEF@cowtowncomputercongress.org>
	<6c70d2980805261457y4c926478wdc8d8c5cb3e1aa39@mail.gmail.com>
	<f7a846090805270846m4b758abdy81ed5b3853cc7477@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90805271240q4c3846d7gc75c1e0f28e184c1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Daryl Fallin <darylvf at gmail.com> wrote:
> I plan on being there.  Anyone else?

I am thinking about attending.

From darylvf at gmail.com  Tue May 27 12:45:08 2008
From: darylvf at gmail.com (Daryl Fallin)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:45:08 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Trouble with DBD::Oracle
In-Reply-To: <20080527143043.c2e95e7d.frank@wiles.org>
References: <f7a846090805271143w4c67d593p9e106931e76b4bb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805271153l692a5c49xef5c1071505ffc93@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080527143043.c2e95e7d.frank@wiles.org>
Message-ID: <f7a846090805271245t6748698i78cf3a4c9b095959@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, I was thinking that it might be the 32-bit vs 64 bit problem as well.

I am still trying to solve this problem, but trying the 10.x client
libs is high on my list of things to try.

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Frank Wiles <frank at wiles.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 May 2008 13:53:56 -0500
> "Kit Peters" <popefelix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you tried using the 10.x client libs?  You can get them for free
>> from Oracle.
>
>  In addition to that advice, it might be a 32-bit vs 64-bit
>  issue.  I ran into a CPAN module just last week that refused
>  to compile when using a 64-bit Perl install as it was linking
>  to a 32-bit shared library.
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------
>   Frank Wiles, Revolution Systems, LLC.
>     Personal : frank at wiles.org  http://www.wiles.org
>     Work     : frank at revsys.com http://www.revsys.com
>
>

From stephenclouse at gmail.com  Tue May 27 16:56:28 2008
From: stephenclouse at gmail.com (Stephen Clouse)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 18:56:28 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Trouble with DBD::Oracle
In-Reply-To: <f7a846090805271245t6748698i78cf3a4c9b095959@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7a846090805271143w4c67d593p9e106931e76b4bb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b42465b90805271153l692a5c49xef5c1071505ffc93@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080527143043.c2e95e7d.frank@wiles.org>
	<f7a846090805271245t6748698i78cf3a4c9b095959@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d0ee2170805271656k30c0a5cfv9f3225d633bf5750@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Daryl Fallin <darylvf at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I was thinking that it might be the 32-bit vs 64 bit problem as well.


That's what it looks like to me.  Note that the linker is pulling in the
Oracle lib32 directory, then trying to link it against a 64-bit libgcc.

-- 
Stephen Clouse <stephenclouse at gmail.com>
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