From amoore at mooresystems.com Tue Aug 5 05:58:29 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 07:58:29 -0500 Subject: [Kc] August meeting tonight? Message-ID: <6c70d2980808050558q4ec2803fg47751b701e652716@mail.gmail.com> The First Tuesday of August snuck up on me again. Is anyone interested in getting together this evening at 7pm at Barley's in Shawnee to chat about perl and such? -Andy From amoore at mooresystems.com Tue Aug 5 06:17:17 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:17:17 -0500 Subject: [Kc] August meeting tonight? In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808050610t260a2645n3a315e0f6e052f90@mail.gmail.com> References: <6c70d2980808050558q4ec2803fg47751b701e652716@mail.gmail.com> <934f64a20808050610t260a2645n3a315e0f6e052f90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6c70d2980808050617r2ee7ac5l7a1fdd7ab99fb1f2@mail.gmail.com> Oh, is it usually the second Tuesday? I can never remember. OK, then this is an early announcement of next week! David, it would be great if you could make it *next* week. We haven't seen you in ages. I was afraid that the new location prevented you from making it. -Andy On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 8:10 AM, David Nicol wrote: > when did we switch to the first tuesday? It's conceivable, depending on > what kind of mood The Boss is in tonight > From davidnicol at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 06:58:50 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:58:50 -0500 Subject: [Kc] August meeting tonight? In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808050657uc464386ja9bd31c538e78711@mail.gmail.com> References: <6c70d2980808050558q4ec2803fg47751b701e652716@mail.gmail.com> <934f64a20808050610t260a2645n3a315e0f6e052f90@mail.gmail.com> <6c70d2980808050617r2ee7ac5l7a1fdd7ab99fb1f2@mail.gmail.com> <934f64a20808050657uc464386ja9bd31c538e78711@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <934f64a20808050658x4abeabafg8ab0d28010af9b66@mail.gmail.com> no, its my time pressures. I've been trying to send Dafe as sort of a proxy for myself. Anybody want to talk about "sack" based identity and wallet management architecture, towards recruiting assistance on the project? (the sack interface to be run out of singlethreaded server, instead of apache/plain-cgi, possible AJAX component) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Andrew Moore wrote: > > Oh, is it usually the second Tuesday? I can never remember. OK, then > this is an early announcement of next week! > > David, it would be great if you could make it *next* week. We haven't > seen you in ages. I was afraid that the new location prevented you > from making it. > > -Andy -- "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good" -- some politician on CNN From davidnicol at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 10:50:44 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:50:44 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Fwd: Reminder: SCE Alumni Association 2008 Annual Dinner and Meeting Notice In-Reply-To: <1C1A133246EC8344B22D2FDFF3D341E6093E4A39@KC-MSX4.kc.umkc.edu> References: <1C1A133246EC8344B22D2FDFF3D341E6093E4A39@KC-MSX4.kc.umkc.edu> Message-ID: <934f64a20808061050i78727a8co476bb7a1f7857e6@mail.gmail.com> maybe if I go to this I will bring fellow CSTP/SCE alums to Barley's ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: UMKC Advancement Services Date: Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:10 AM Subject: Reminder: SCE Alumni Association 2008 Annual Dinner and Meeting Notice To: ADVANCEMENT at listserv.umkc.edu Dear SCE Alumni: It is not too late to RSVP for next week's SCE Alumni Association Annual Dinner and Meeting! RSVP and pay online at www.umkc.edu/advancement/events. Hope to see you there! Tuesday, August 12, 2008 5:30?7:00 p.m. UMKC School of Computing and Engineering 557 Flarshiem Hall 5100 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 Cost of Dinner: A buffet will be served. $10 per person. The 2008-2009 Alumni Board Officers will be ratified at the meeting. You may RSVP and pay online at www.umkc.edu/advancement/events or by phone by calling Nathan Shatto, director of alumni relations, at (816) 235-6260. We hope to see you there. Sincerely, Dustin L. Elliott, EIT, BSCiE, '03 President, SCE Alumni Board To be removed from this mailing list, please go to <http://listserv.umkc.edu/listserv/wa.exe?SUBED1=ADVANCEMENT&A=1> or send an email message to the address listserv at listserv.umkc.edu, with the text SIGNOFF ADVANCEMENT in the body of the message. Problems or questions should be directed to manager at listserv.umkc.edu. &*TO; -- "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good" -- some politician on CNN -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 17979 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidnicol at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:28:26 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:28:26 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP Message-ID: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:24 PM Do you want to consider joining a strong, stable financial institution? There are no cuts going on here on this staff but solid growth. Our recent placement there are highly complementary. If Overland Park KS is an attractive area to work in, please read on. Our client is looking for people that want to be long term, permanent employees. Though this is a contract to hire position, our client does not want short term consultants but people who desire full time employment. The position requires strong experience with PERL, Java, HTML/DHTML, SQL and an understanding of linking back-end applications. XML and C are a big plus. This individual will analyze, design, implement and support web-related applications supporting the company's internet/intranet strategy. Additional helpful skills: Knowledge of authoring tools and human interface. Experience with performance aspects of application development. Knowledge of DBMSs, development methodology, standards, design tools are all an additional pluses. Knowledge of web design principles and standards, firewall and network security and Internet database connectivity could add to the value of candidates. Should have a mature attitude and be a self-starter, willing to share knowledge with the team. These positions are mainly heavy Perl development with Java, SQL, HTML, DHTML are the keys. This C and XML are highly preferred skills to have. We are representing one opening to join the development team. Cindy From popefelix at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:36:22 2008 From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:36:22 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The "strong, stable financial institution" mentioned here is US Bank. I'm submitted for this job under separate auspices - anyone have any experience working for US Bank? KP On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:28 PM, David Nicol wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:24 PM > > Do you want to consider joining a strong, stable financial institution? > There are no cuts going on here on this staff but solid growth. Our recent > placement there are highly complementary. If Overland Park KS is an > attractive area to work in, please read on. -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randall.munden at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:41:59 2008 From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:41:59 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> In my experience banks are the worst place to work -- but I'm odd like that. On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > The "strong, stable financial institution" mentioned here is US Bank. I'm > submitted for this job under separate auspices - anyone have any experience > working for US Bank? > > KP > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:28 PM, David Nicol wrote: >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: >> Date: Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:24 PM >> >> Do you want to consider joining a strong, stable financial institution? >> There are no cuts going on here on this staff but solid growth. Our >> recent >> placement there are highly complementary. If Overland Park KS is an >> attractive area to work in, please read on. > > -- > GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 > > > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc > -- -- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather From popefelix at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:43:50 2008 From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:43:50 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm also leery of working for a bank. I worked briefly in the financial services industry (DST) and hated it. KP On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Randall Munden wrote: > In my experience banks are the worst place to work -- but I'm odd like > that. > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > > The "strong, stable financial institution" mentioned here is US Bank. > I'm > > submitted for this job under separate auspices - anyone have any > experience > > working for US Bank? > > > > KP > > > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:28 PM, David Nicol > wrote: > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: > >> Date: Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:24 PM > >> > >> Do you want to consider joining a strong, stable financial institution? > >> There are no cuts going on here on this staff but solid growth. Our > >> recent > >> placement there are highly complementary. If Overland Park KS is an > >> attractive area to work in, please read on. > > > > -- > > GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 > 46A7 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kc mailing list > > kc at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc > > > > > > -- > -- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. > > http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc > -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andy at petdance.com Thu Aug 7 13:47:17 2008 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:47:17 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > I'm also leery of working for a bank. I worked briefly in the > financial services industry (DST) and hated it. > > In my experience banks are the worst place to work -- but I'm odd > like that. Can you explain WHY they were bad places to work? Your reasons for hating financial industry may involve factors that don't matter to others of us. What made them so bad? xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From popefelix at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:52:12 2008 From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:52:12 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure I can explain why I hated DST. Part of it was that it was a Java gig, and I didn't get to travel as much as I expected (in point of fact, not at all). I didn't care for the dress code, and the Internet filtering. I also got stuck in a cube next to some folks who were on the phone all day - hell for productivity. And I guess these are all really petty reasons, but the fact remains that I despised working for DST. KP On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > > I'm also leery of working for a bank. I worked briefly in the financial >> services industry (DST) and hated it. >> >> In my experience banks are the worst place to work -- but I'm odd like >> that. >> > > > Can you explain WHY they were bad places to work? Your reasons for hating > financial industry may involve factors that don't matter to others of us. > > What made them so bad? > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randall.munden at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:53:13 2008 From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:53:13 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1467780a0808071353gbb49c7bq32bd246ac2da5d6f@mail.gmail.com> 1) A high level of political maneuvering -- usually performed by weenies (to use a nice term) whose continued employment depends on said maneuvering. 2) Organization usually not meritocracy based. 3) Pitifully slow to change or even adjust. On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > >> I'm also leery of working for a bank. I worked briefly in the financial >> services industry (DST) and hated it. >> >> In my experience banks are the worst place to work -- but I'm odd like >> that. > > > Can you explain WHY they were bad places to work? Your reasons for hating > financial industry may involve factors that don't matter to others of us. > > What made them so bad? > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > -- -- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather From dgreer75 at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:56:49 2008 From: dgreer75 at gmail.com (Doug Greer) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:56:49 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey all, I turned down an offer from that company. My decision was partially based on second-hand accounts from a person who used to work in the same group, so I won't go into the details... I will say that banks tend to be some of the most conservative institutions out there. I have family who've worked for banks. Also, I have a problem with the financial sector in general. Read: Bad Money: Reckless Finance, Failed Politics, and the Global Crisis of American Capitalism Regards, Doug On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > > I'm also leery of working for a bank. I worked briefly in the financial >> services industry (DST) and hated it. >> >> In my experience banks are the worst place to work -- but I'm odd like >> that. >> > > > Can you explain WHY they were bad places to work? Your reasons for hating > financial industry may involve factors that don't matter to others of us. > > What made them so bad? > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andy at petdance.com Thu Aug 7 13:58:04 2008 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:58:04 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:52 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > I'm not sure I can explain why I hated DST. Part of it was that it > was a Java gig, and I didn't get to travel as much as I expected (in > point of fact, not at all). I didn't care for the dress code, and > the Internet filtering. I also got stuck in a cube next to some > folks who were on the phone all day - hell for productivity. And I > guess these are all really petty reasons, but the fact remains that > I despised working for DST. I would, too. I don't think those are petty reasons at all. I didn't mean for you to feel like you had to justify hating working for a bank, but the reasons WHY would be more informative for the group than just "Banks suck." I did two months at a hedge fund before I had to leave. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From davidnicol at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 14:35:11 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:35:11 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <934f64a20808071435w73683cb8k84076ffafed19da1@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > "Banks suck." tipjar.com is still looking for collaborators who can accept deferred compensation; tipjar.com is "in the financial sector" (or wants to be) and is most emphatically NOT a bank. -- "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good" -- some politician on CNN From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 14:37:21 2008 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:37:21 -0700 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200808071437.21483.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Kit Peters # on Thursday 07 August 2008 13:52: >I'm not sure I can explain why I hated DST. ?Part of it was that it > was a Java gig Oh? I thought everything they did was in cobol. --Eric -- "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." --Donald Knuth --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From amoore at mooresystems.com Thu Aug 7 14:46:28 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:46:28 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6c70d2980808071446l6bd26e17n152e803fae5468a3@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > The "strong, stable financial institution" mentioned here is US Bank. I'm > submitted for this job under separate auspices - anyone have any experience > working for US Bank? This is about the 8th time in the last two years that the US Bank job in Overland Park or St Paul has been advertised here. You might learn a bit about the job or the team or the company if you ask them where all the other engineers that they hired are, or why this position has been empty so long or something along those lines. Maybe they have a huge team now, or maybe they have really high turnover or really high standards or something like that. Good luck! -Andy From emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 06:13:48 2008 From: emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com (Emmanuel Mejias) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Kc] a recruiter looking for Perl/Java talent in OP In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808071435w73683cb8k84076ffafed19da1@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808071328r3bf13b7dh5145bd295e84e440@mail.gmail.com> <1467780a0808071341y5fd84feeva7d1600a3b41a616@mail.gmail.com> <934f64a20808071435w73683cb8k84076ffafed19da1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38feac7e0808080613k6611d283x3fc3baa8fe07fd06@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM, David Nicol wrote: > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > > > "Banks suck." > > tipjar.com is still looking for collaborators who can accept deferred > compensation; tipjar.com is "in the financial sector" (or wants to be) > and is most emphatically NOT a bank. > > > -- > "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good" -- some politician on > CNN > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc > Took the words right out of my fingers! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidnicol at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 06:22:29 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:22:29 -0500 Subject: [Kc] promoting tomorrow's meeting Message-ID: <934f64a20808110622t556e16bcm950671f005754c2a@mail.gmail.com> I want to hand out flyers at the UMKC SICE/CSTP alumni dinner. Do we have any ready-to-go flyer pdfs? From amoore at mooresystems.com Mon Aug 11 06:35:50 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:35:50 -0500 Subject: [Kc] promoting tomorrow's meeting In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808110622t556e16bcm950671f005754c2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808110622t556e16bcm950671f005754c2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6c70d2980808110635n7d4e4a4epfebf800b42ff2c02@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 8:22 AM, David Nicol wrote: > I want to hand out flyers at the UMKC SICE/CSTP alumni dinner. Do we > have any ready-to-go flyer pdfs? Good idea, David! Not that I know of. Is anyone good at this kind of thing and has a few minutes today? -A From ironicface at earthlink.net Mon Aug 11 13:30:58 2008 From: ironicface at earthlink.net (Teal) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:30:58 -0500 Subject: [Kc] promoting tomorrow's meeting In-Reply-To: <6c70d2980808110635n7d4e4a4epfebf800b42ff2c02@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808110622t556e16bcm950671f005754c2a@mail.gmail.com> <6c70d2980808110635n7d4e4a4epfebf800b42ff2c02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A0A182.4080907@earthlink.net> Do we still need flyers. I could make a pdf. Teal -- Five minutes of Silence, Meditate. Breathe. Be Alive. From amoore at mooresystems.com Tue Aug 12 08:23:48 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:23:48 -0500 Subject: [Kc] August meeting tonight Message-ID: <6c70d2980808120823v30df94abiaedea9a61b312bd2@mail.gmail.com> After one false alarm, we're having the regular kc.pm.org meeting tonight at Barley's in Shawnee at 7pm. Considering that it looks like David might be bringing some friends, I'll try to find a larger table than the high-top in the bar that we usually grab. I might even be able to get the big table on the bandstand area if I get a few more RSVP's throughout the day than usual. Look for the nerds with the perl books and such. I'll leave word with the Host(ess) about where we are, too. -Andy From davidnicol at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 11:05:43 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:05:43 -0500 Subject: [Kc] differentiate perl version at run time Message-ID: <934f64a20808141105h31bb09adtc2d7f3f56cdb039@mail.gmail.com> I have this script I run under either solaris, cygwin, or activestate perls a variety of versions. I want to conditionally prepend 'C:' to some file names when running under activestate. Who knows what line noise var I should examine? -- "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good" -- some politician on CNN From amoore at mooresystems.com Thu Aug 14 11:08:30 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:08:30 -0500 Subject: [Kc] differentiate perl version at run time In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808141105h31bb09adtc2d7f3f56cdb039@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808141105h31bb09adtc2d7f3f56cdb039@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6c70d2980808141108y37f50d73p66fa47f76bd5c3ce@mail.gmail.com> Hi David - I think this is something that File::Spec handles. It looks like the 'volume' argumnet to 'catpath' may be what you're hunting. Hope it helps. -Andy On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:05 PM, David Nicol wrote: > I have this script I run under either solaris, cygwin, or activestate > perls a variety of versions. > I want to conditionally prepend 'C:' to some file names when running > under activestate. > > Who knows what line noise var I should examine? > > -- > "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good" -- some politician on CNN > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc > From davidnicol at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 11:13:16 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:13:16 -0500 Subject: [Kc] differentiate perl version at run time In-Reply-To: <6c70d2980808141108y37f50d73p66fa47f76bd5c3ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808141105h31bb09adtc2d7f3f56cdb039@mail.gmail.com> <6c70d2980808141108y37f50d73p66fa47f76bd5c3ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <934f64a20808141113i2aafc465k233e5c9b30dc836c@mail.gmail.com> I will use $^O as it is "MSWin32" in activeperl and other things elsewhere. I understand you got a table under the TV screen tuesday and left shortly before I got to Barley's; the UMKC School of Computing and Engineering alumni dinner was not the thriving multitude I had expected and although I did hand out flyers (attached -- could use the addition of a map) nobody from the event joined me in the journey to Shawnee. On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Andrew Moore wrote: > I think this is something that File::Spec handles. > > > It looks like the 'volume' argumnet to 'catpath' may be what you're hunting. > > Hope it helps. > -Andy > > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:05 PM, David Nicol wrote: >> I have this script I run under either solaris, cygwin, or activestate >> perls a variety of versions. >> I want to conditionally prepend 'C:' to some file names when running >> under activestate. >> >> Who knows what line noise var I should examine? From amoore at mooresystems.com Thu Aug 14 11:15:46 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:15:46 -0500 Subject: [Kc] differentiate perl version at run time In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808141113i2aafc465k233e5c9b30dc836c@mail.gmail.com> References: <934f64a20808141105h31bb09adtc2d7f3f56cdb039@mail.gmail.com> <6c70d2980808141108y37f50d73p66fa47f76bd5c3ce@mail.gmail.com> <934f64a20808141113i2aafc465k233e5c9b30dc836c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6c70d2980808141115t5ed2e255jbef2b280535b2174@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:13 PM, David Nicol wrote: > I understand you got a table under the TV screen tuesday and left > shortly before I got to Barley's; the UMKC School of Computing and > Engineering alumni dinner was not the thriving multitude I had > expected and although I did hand out flyers (attached -- could use the > addition of a map) nobody from the event joined me in the journey to > Shawnee. Sorry we missed you, David. I think we left around 8:15 or 8:30. I hope you can make it again soon! -Andy From emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 04:29:32 2008 From: emmanuel.mejias at gmail.com (Emmanuel Mejias) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:29:32 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Why Corporates Hate Perl Message-ID: <38feac7e0808210429q29b0826fo85224be59b3f1235@mail.gmail.com> Interesting article I came across on Slashdot. Sorry if this is not appropriate for the mailing list, but I just wanted to get some thoughts on this since it's not the first time I've read or heard someone say this. Last week I was in Copenhagen for YAPC::Europe. One of the announcements at the conference was the location of next year's conference which will be in Lisbon . The theme of next year's conference will be "Corporate Perl". And that (along with a couple of conversations last night) got me thinking about a talk that I'll submit to next year's conference which might well be entitled "Why Corporates Hate Perl". Full Story What do you mongers think? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidnicol at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 09:42:13 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:42:13 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Why Corporates Hate Perl In-Reply-To: <38feac7e0808210429q29b0826fo85224be59b3f1235@mail.gmail.com> References: <38feac7e0808210429q29b0826fo85224be59b3f1235@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <934f64a20808210942y5ed91e52ye042a90aece682dc@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Emmanuel Mejias wrote: > Interesting article I came across on Slashdot. Sorry if this is not appropriate for the mailing list When I read the second sentence my thought was, "he's sending this to kclug, right? He should send it to KCPM, it would be totally on-topic there." Then I saw which mailing list it was sent to. I would like to experiment with a mailing list rule, which is as follows: "Style questions, including propriety for the forum, are to be handled off-list. When in doubt, strip weakening statements of insecurity and post. As someone who subscribes to this mailing list, the things that interest you have a high probability of interesting the other subscribers." in keeping with the above edict, please reply off-list. (or violate it, and reply on-list, demonstrating that you would like your perl mongers mailing list to degenerate into a noisy series of points of order.) David Nicol, Armchair Entrepreneur From djgoku at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 09:52:12 2008 From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:52:12 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Why Corporates Hate Perl In-Reply-To: <934f64a20808210942y5ed91e52ye042a90aece682dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <38feac7e0808210429q29b0826fo85224be59b3f1235@mail.gmail.com> <934f64a20808210942y5ed91e52ye042a90aece682dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99dd19c90808210952h5b402d17i607dabe2a8a736d3@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:42 AM, David Nicol wrote: > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Emmanuel Mejias > wrote: >> Interesting article I came across on Slashdot. Sorry if this is not appropriate for the mailing list > > When I read the second sentence my thought was, "he's sending this to > kclug, right? He should send it to KCPM, it would be totally on-topic > there." Then I saw which mailing list it was sent to. > > I would like to experiment with a mailing list rule, which is as follows: > > "Style questions, including propriety for the forum, are to be handled > off-list. When in doubt, strip weakening statements of insecurity and > post. As someone who subscribes to this mailing list, the things that > interest you have a high probability of interesting the other > subscribers." > > in keeping with the above edict, please reply off-list. (or violate > it, and reply on-list, demonstrating that you would like your perl > mongers mailing list to degenerate into a noisy series of points of > order.) Haha, I had to un-subscribe from all the noise on the KCLUG mailing list. I don't really see that happening to this list. Jonathan From scott.kahler at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 12:06:00 2008 From: scott.kahler at gmail.com (Scott Kahler) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:06:00 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Why Corporates Hate Perl In-Reply-To: <38feac7e0808210429q29b0826fo85224be59b3f1235@mail.gmail.com> References: <38feac7e0808210429q29b0826fo85224be59b3f1235@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43da8b670808211206q1f21dd2em4ae310f44285c0c0@mail.gmail.com> I've been reading a lot of language debates recently and I find it interesting that more and more often I read how certain languages are being or not being marketed well. Is this just my perception or are other people seeing this too? On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Emmanuel Mejias wrote: > Interesting article I came across on Slashdot. Sorry if this is not > appropriate for the mailing list, but I just wanted to get some thoughts on > this since it's not the first time I've read or heard someone say this. > > Last week I was in Copenhagen for YAPC::Europe. One of the announcements at > the conference was the location of next year's conference which will be in > Lisbon. The theme of next year's conference will be "Corporate Perl". And > that (along with a couple of conversations last night) got me thinking about > a talk that I'll submit to next year's conference which might well be > entitled "Why Corporates Hate Perl". > > Full Story > > What do you mongers think? > _______________________________________________ > kc mailing list > kc at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc > From davidnicol at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 16:23:07 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:23:07 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Why Corporates Hate Perl In-Reply-To: <43da8b670808211206q1f21dd2em4ae310f44285c0c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <38feac7e0808210429q29b0826fo85224be59b3f1235@mail.gmail.com> <43da8b670808211206q1f21dd2em4ae310f44285c0c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <934f64a20808211623h277de506h66d01a345e765c38@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Scott Kahler wrote: > I've been reading a lot of language debates recently and I find it > interesting that more and more often I read how certain languages are > being or not being marketed well. Is this just my perception or are > other people seeing this too? As mousetrap syndrome, that is, the expectation that after you succeed in producing something of quality the wheels will magically start turning for you, gains mindshare as a real problem, I expect we will see more. The continuing grumblings about how ECMAscript is such a powerful and flexible language but nobody knows it certainly fit this trend. From developer at peelle.org Fri Aug 22 13:31:25 2008 From: developer at peelle.org (James Carman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:31:25 -0400 Subject: [Kc] Why Corporates Hate Perl Message-ID: <24995753.74741219437085480.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> I see the marketing angle, but I don't know how much impact Josh McAdams(PR guy for perl foundation) , or any other PR guy has. I think that the community, and coworkers/peers are the ones that drive a lot of the activity. We had a hot shot join up with us trying to change the world to fit his perspective. First thing he did was tell us how horrible Perl was, and proceeded to try and sell his language. He has been with us for about 9 months now, and I can say that every one of his friends I have met all think Perl is terrible. None of them have used Perl, but they trust his opinion. I go to Columbia college(not the famous one) part time. I have one professor that shows Python off. He makes stuff in with pygame, and does short hand code in class with it. Many students who see him using it will try python. I have done the same thing with Perl. I write prototypes, and any project I can in Perl. Partly to show it of, and partly because it is a great tool to use. James J. Carman >I've been reading a lot of language debates recently and I find it >interesting that more and more often I read how certain languages are >being or not being marketed well. Is this just my perception or are >other people seeing this too? > >On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Emmanuel Mejias > wrote: >> Interesting article I came across on Slashdot. Sorry if this is not >> appropriate for the mailing list, but I just wanted to get some thoughts on >> this since it's not the first time I've read or heard someone say this. >> >> Last week I was in Copenhagen for YAPC::Europe. One of the announcements at >> the conference was the location of next year's conference which will be in >> Lisbon. The theme of next year's conference will be "Corporate Perl". And >> that (along with a couple of conversations last night) got me thinking >about >> a talk that I'll submit to next year's conference which might well be >> entitled "Why Corporates Hate Perl". >> >> Full Story >> >> What do you mongers think? >> _______________________________________________ >> kc mailing list >> kc at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc >> >_______________________________________________ >kc mailing list >kc at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc From davidnicol at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 16:46:39 2008 From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:46:39 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Why Corporates Hate Perl In-Reply-To: <24995753.74741219437085480.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> References: <24995753.74741219437085480.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: <934f64a20808231646p17ab672fp35b3eb069f266bf5@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 3:31 PM, James Carman wrote: > We had a hot shot join up with us trying to change the world to fit his perspective. First thing he did was tell us how horrible Perl was, and proceeded to try and sell his language. was his language "NewLisp?" I once participated in interviewing a fellow who seemed to be of the opinion that if we came to a full stop on a hybrid perl/C project and re-did it entirely in NewLisp that would be a good thing. We did not hire him. -- off-topic notices are almost universally, themselves, off topic. From popefelix at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 17:53:36 2008 From: popefelix at gmail.com (Kit Peters) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:53:36 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Seen this? Message-ID: http://blog.vipul.net/2008/08/24/redhat-perl-what-a-tragedy/ If you're running Perl from an RPM or an SRPM, run that test. If it's slower than shit, pull down 5.10 and compile. KP -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andy at petdance.com Mon Aug 25 18:40:52 2008 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:40:52 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Seen this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 25, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > http://blog.vipul.net/2008/08/24/redhat-perl-what-a-tragedy/ > > If you're running Perl from an RPM or an SRPM, run that test. If > it's slower than shit, pull down 5.10 and compile. Or wait a few days (at most, I suspect) when a new package gets out there. The problem is not all Perl. It's when dealing with overloading. -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From amoore at mooresystems.com Mon Aug 25 18:53:47 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:53:47 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Seen this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6c70d2980808251853w31cdc7ffmf83924eb05db6c64@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 8:40 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > > On Aug 25, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > >> http://blog.vipul.net/2008/08/24/redhat-perl-what-a-tragedy/ >> >> If you're running Perl from an RPM or an SRPM, run that test. If it's >> slower than shit, pull down 5.10 and compile. > > > Or wait a few days (at most, I suspect) when a new package gets out there. > > The problem is not all Perl. It's when dealing with overloading. I'm not sure I understand, Andy. It sounds like it's been a problem with the way that a few linux distributions distribute perl. And, it sounds like it's been that way for a while. That sounds like a "perl problem" to me. This is not a problem with overloading in C++ or Python or any other language here. What do you mean that "The problem is not at all Perl"? Perhaps it's compiled or used or packaged or distributed poorly, but that sounds like "our" problem, where "our" is we perl folk. Yeah, it's a drag that one of our favorite tools is hard to use or distribute well. That's an area ripe for improvement. And, there's a good test to let users know when they should rebuild perl or ask for it to be fixed by their vendors. That's a good thing. I hope there is a fix in a few days, too. But that fix might be something that the redistributors have to do. -Andy From andy at petdance.com Mon Aug 25 19:03:17 2008 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:03:17 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Seen this? In-Reply-To: <6c70d2980808251853w31cdc7ffmf83924eb05db6c64@mail.gmail.com> References: <6c70d2980808251853w31cdc7ffmf83924eb05db6c64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1FE63030-DDC6-49E8-9DD0-7FF0D4A04BF6@petdance.com> On Aug 25, 2008, at 8:53 PM, Andrew Moore wrote: > What do you mean that "The problem > is not at all Perl"? No, I said "The problem is not all Perl", as in "not all of Perl is broken", just when instantiating classes with overloaded operators. I'm working on a story for Perlbuzz right now. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From amoore at mooresystems.com Tue Aug 26 05:28:48 2008 From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:28:48 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Seen this? In-Reply-To: <1FE63030-DDC6-49E8-9DD0-7FF0D4A04BF6@petdance.com> References: <6c70d2980808251853w31cdc7ffmf83924eb05db6c64@mail.gmail.com> <1FE63030-DDC6-49E8-9DD0-7FF0D4A04BF6@petdance.com> Message-ID: <6c70d2980808260528n1003ec1bw1c28ff53fb4450c9@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > No, I said "The problem is not all Perl", as in "not all of Perl is broken", > just when instantiating classes with overloaded operators. Aha! Good. I thought you momentarily lost your typical approach of fixing, rather than denying, problems. It looks like it was both a bit of a misread and a misunderstand. Sorry about that. It made me start wondering what CPAN modules overload things that I wouldn't have thought of. URI for instance. -Andy From frank at wiles.org Tue Aug 26 08:45:51 2008 From: frank at wiles.org (Frank Wiles) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:45:51 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Seen this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080826104551.6a518bc8.frank@wiles.org> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:40:52 -0500 Andy Lester wrote: > On Aug 25, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Kit Peters wrote: > > > http://blog.vipul.net/2008/08/24/redhat-perl-what-a-tragedy/ > > > > If you're running Perl from an RPM or an SRPM, run that test. If > > it's slower than shit, pull down 5.10 and compile. > > > Or wait a few days (at most, I suspect) when a new package gets out > there. > > The problem is not all Perl. It's when dealing with overloading. Not sure if you want to wait too long. This has been a problem for quite awhile, to the point that Catalyst warns you about it when you install it. I noticed it on a new system when installing Catalyst a couple of weeks before OSCON, so it's been a known issue for well over a month. ------------------------------------------------------- Frank Wiles, Revolution Systems, LLC. Personal : frank at wiles.org http://www.wiles.org Work : frank at revsys.com http://www.revsys.com From randall.munden at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 08:44:12 2008 From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:44:12 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Programming, personality types and job performance Message-ID: <1467780a0808280844j20355ec2j36d79d8039856fd4@mail.gmail.com> All, This came across the radar [of the irc channel I loiter in] this week, was briefly discussed and affirmations were made as to the astounding parallels made with the personalities of the participants in the discussion. Then -- in the style of irc -- the topic was dropped in favor of some other, probably boobies. I have since been following the blog (there have been two additional posts in the same vein) with numerous comments attesting to how similar the description is to themselves -- or a programmer they know. The impetus for the blog author was how to keep this personality type gainfully involved in a company's success, i.e. working at full capacity. Based on the discussions I've had and my own observations there seem to be a lot of programmers/IT types that exhibit the rollercoaster ride of great excitement/high output highs to minimal interest/low output lows all within the span of a few weeks or months. I've experienced it myself -- I got a little red in the face reading some of the more negative traits described in these posts, knowing I had exhibited them before. So how is it that all these programmers stay employed? Does the rockstardom of their highs outshine their lows? Is management capable of identifying these individuals and keeping them productive? Do I need to find another career? Farming perhaps? --rjm-- -- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather From randall.munden at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 08:45:41 2008 From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:45:41 -0500 Subject: [Kc] Programming, personality types and job performance Message-ID: <1467780a0808280845i11747245le72a89ad129db890@mail.gmail.com> It might be helpful to include a link to the post in question, eh? http://lispy.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/do-you-know-any-programmers-that-exhibit-these-personality-traits/ --rjm-- -- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather