From davidnicol at gmail.com  Mon Jul  3 18:25:52 2006
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:25:52 -0500
Subject: [Kc] OT: kcrug
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607010030i2c0a8345gd3dfc377a4ccd866@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d0fd5d610606300724u60dc9ac7lce5004ed4c5f0ea8@mail.gmail.com>
	<1151678144.16231.1.camel@desktop1.localdomain>
	<934f64a20606301516j651f6a97pc12b6fc9c44fd3b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90607010030i2c0a8345gd3dfc377a4ccd866@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20607031825v28e85338vc90f22f3bff27488@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/1/06, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/30/06, David Nicol <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Rubyists are welcome at perl mongers meetings, for whatever that's worth.
>
> Do you guys still meet at the Planet Sub? I am currently
> reading/learning about Perl. Is there a mailing list?

Yes we do, occasionally. The mailing list described at kc.pm.org
still works (i believe it is subscriber-post and archived at GMANE)
although the web site itself is so old the spiders have died in their webs.

We met at planet sub in June and discussed meeting again in July.

Second tuesday of the month.


-- 
David L Nicol
E-mail is legendarily opaque to nuance
and it becomes less so only
with continuous honest feedback.

From tmchesser at gmail.com  Mon Jul  3 20:38:04 2006
From: tmchesser at gmail.com (Tony Chesser-Evans)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 22:38:04 -0500
Subject: [Kc] calendar
Message-ID: <d77780050607032038r37cce40fy7f11b200b8bdb5d6@mail.gmail.com>

Fellow Perl Mongers,

For those of you who have Google Calendar, I've established a "Kansas
City Open Source computing calendar."  It's public, so you should be
able to find it pretty easily.  At the moment, I've got PM meetings in
there.  I'm looking for any other Kansas City area Linux, Perl, Ruby,
MySQL, PHP etc. groups who would like to be included.  I'd love to
populate it with enough meetings, events, installfests, demos, etc.
that the whole community of such people throughout the KC Metro area
could easily get acquainted.  Consequently, if you know of some other,
applicable groups, please have some PoC for the group get ahold of me,
and I'd be happy to add their events to the calendar.  Alternately, I
can delegate that function to others as needed.

Note:  if you've got a better name for it, I'm open to suggestions.

Regards,

Tony Chesser-Evans

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue Jul  4 04:04:56 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 06:04:56 -0500
Subject: [Kc] OT: kcrug
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20607031825v28e85338vc90f22f3bff27488@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d0fd5d610606300724u60dc9ac7lce5004ed4c5f0ea8@mail.gmail.com>
	<1151678144.16231.1.camel@desktop1.localdomain>
	<934f64a20606301516j651f6a97pc12b6fc9c44fd3b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<99dd19c90607010030i2c0a8345gd3dfc377a4ccd866@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20607031825v28e85338vc90f22f3bff27488@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060704110456.GB5437@mooresystems.com>


On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 08:25:52PM -0500, David Nicol wrote:
> although the web site itself is so old the spiders have died in their webs.

David - 

Let me know if you have any constructive additions to the site and
I'll help you get them added.

Thanks for your inupt!

-Andy



From jay at jays.net  Tue Jul  4 05:11:28 2006
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 07:11:28 -0500
Subject: [Kc] calendar
In-Reply-To: <d77780050607032038r37cce40fy7f11b200b8bdb5d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d77780050607032038r37cce40fy7f11b200b8bdb5d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44AA5AF0.7000306@jays.net>

Tony Chesser-Evans wrote:
> For those of you who have Google Calendar, I've established a "Kansas
...
> Note:  if you've got a better name for it, I'm open to suggestions.

ITinKC?  (ala http://itinomaha.org/)

j


From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Tue Jul  4 07:09:52 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:09:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] OT: kcrug
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20607031825v28e85338vc90f22f3bff27488@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607040905580.13749-100000@goebel.ws>

David,

If you post a summary of the updates you want, I can try to get back on
track with updating it.

In the mean time, feel free to check the perl mongers site for
instructions on maintaining the group website:
http://groups.pm.org/faq.html#maintaining_my_groups_website. It
isn't too difficult.

greetings from Lima, Peru,

Garrett

P.S. I hope to be back in September.


On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, David Nicol wrote:

> On 7/1/06, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 6/30/06, David Nicol <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Rubyists are welcome at perl mongers meetings, for whatever that's worth.
> >
> > Do you guys still meet at the Planet Sub? I am currently
> > reading/learning about Perl. Is there a mailing list?
>
> Yes we do, occasionally. The mailing list described at kc.pm.org
> still works (i believe it is subscriber-post and archived at GMANE)
> although the web site itself is so old the spiders have died in their webs.
>
> We met at planet sub in June and discussed meeting again in July.
>
> Second tuesday of the month.
>
>
> --
> David L Nicol
> E-mail is legendarily opaque to nuance
> and it becomes less so only
> with continuous honest feedback.
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue Jul  4 07:55:26 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:55:26 -0500
Subject: [Kc]  website updates [was: kcrug]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607040905580.13749-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <934f64a20607031825v28e85338vc90f22f3bff27488@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607040905580.13749-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <20060704145526.GA19915@mooresystems.com>

On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 09:09:52AM -0500, C. Garrett Goebel wrote:
> If you post a summary of the updates you want, I can try to get back on
> track with updating it.

Hi Garrett - Good to hear from you. I was wondering why your
@scriptpro address wasn't working.
 
> In the mean time, feel free to check the perl mongers site for
> instructions on maintaining the group website:
> http://groups.pm.org/faq.html#maintaining_my_groups_website. It
> isn't too difficult.

I presumed that David didn't like the outdated information since he
mentioned at the last meeting that he thought the site should just
point to the mailing list. I pretty much stripped down the site and
left some general meeting information and a link to the mailing list
archives. The old pages are still there, and we can update or restore
them if there's any interest.

If there's any interest in adding anything more or less by anyone,
feel free to send me suggestions (or patches), or sign up for access
through the pm.org site. I think Garrett and I are the only ones with
access so far, and it sounds like he's a bit out of the way these
days.

-Andy



From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Tue Jul  4 08:57:36 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:57:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] website updates [was: kcrug]
In-Reply-To: <20060704145526.GA19915@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607041021090.14103-100000@goebel.ws>

Regarding the comment on my being slightly out-of-the-way these days...
While geographically that is very much the case, I'm actually spending
more time with Perl now than have for quite some time. Hopefully, when I
get back in September I'll be able to give a presentation on Jifty
(http://www.jifty.org). I'm using it to build a database for education and
medical record keeping at a school here for developmentally disabled
children.

Regarding the website...

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, Andrew Moore wrote:
>
> I presumed that David didn't like the outdated information since he
> mentioned at the last meeting that he thought the site should just
> point to the mailing list. I pretty much stripped down the site and
> left some general meeting information and a link to the mailing list
> archives. The old pages are still there, and we can update or restore
> them if there's any interest.

Thanks for taking the initiative on this. I wasn't at the meeting, and
didn't see any notes on what was discussed besides what you'd already
mentioned. So if I'm coming at this from an angle perpendicular to the
general consensus let me know.

Before I start, let me drop a reference to the waybackmachine for
reviewing old versions of the website:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kc.pm.org

Since we haven't had any news in a long time... I can certainly see
dropping the News link. However, as we've just had a meeting... perhaps
it'd be just as well to update it. It's nice to have the historical
record. Time permitting, it'd be nice to fish references to meeting
summaries out of the mail archives and link them in like was done for book
reviews. I know there's been at least one or two meetings that slipped
between the cracks since the last time the page was updated.

Minimally, I'd recommend restoring the links to the Reviews and Jobs
pages. The Jobs page is very much up-to-date, as it is a syndicate of the
http://jobs.perl.org/rss site. FYI: there is a link pointing to us from
that URL. At one point they'd told me they planned on adding regional
and/or state based search criteria, but it doesn't look like they've
gotten around to that yet.

And I've run across references to the Reviews page via google when looking
for book reviews. So that's another easy path that leads people to our
site.

We might update and merge About and Contacts. There's definitely some
redundancy and inconsistency there. On one page I'm listed as the
moderator... and on the other both David and I are listed. It's nice to
have a page where someone interested in KC.PM ongoings can find
info on how to contact someone without having to subscribe to the list.
Over the years, I received enough emails from lurkers and people new to
the area... to justify it.

Andy, I'd also recommend adding your name to the list. You've been around
and involved long enough in keeping the group alive and running to merit
making it as official as these things get.

thoughts?

cheers,

Garrett


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue Jul  4 09:42:28 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:42:28 -0500
Subject: [Kc] website updates [was: kcrug]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607041021090.14103-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <20060704145526.GA19915@mooresystems.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607041021090.14103-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <20060704164228.GA20417@mooresystems.com>


It seems like I recognize two pretty good points from what David
occasionally indicates and what Garrett wrote.

1) Garrett: we have some pretty good stuff there
2) David: but some of it gets out of date pretty quickly considering
   how often we don't touch the site

To address both of these, I've made some changes such as: 

* Changed the "News" page to a "Meetings" page. It lists "notable past
  meetings" and information about our (ir)regular meetings. Since it
  doesn't promise to list all of the meetings, it's OK if we miss some
  of the less memorable ones. (like the time we all left David there
  to read by himself!) I ran through the list archives and didn't see
  anything too great about meeting summaries in the past year or two,
  but I recall Garrett making some for a handful of months. I'll see
  if I can find more.

* consolidated "Contact" and "About" to list some "prominent members"
  (David, Garrett, and me) who can be contacted if the list is
  inapporopriate.

* Reviews and Jobs are there. One keeps itself up to date, and the
  other is good over a longer time scale. Adding reviews to this page
  when they come in isn't too bad. They will probably be links to the
  mailing list anyway.

* updated a ton of broken links. The mailing list archives were moved.

I'm hopeful that we're getting closer to having a good balance between
an informative site and one that doesn't require monthly
maintenance. I encourage suggestions or help!

Thanks,
-Andy


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue Jul  4 10:09:05 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:09:05 -0500
Subject: [Kc] July meeting - YAPC::NA Chicago report
Message-ID: <20060704170905.GA20558@mooresystems.com>


Hi KC Mongers:

The second Tuesday of July is the 11th.

I headed off to Chicago for YAPC::NA last week and attended some
pretty interesting talks. I'll try to be at this month's meeting to
recap some of them for you. They certainly motivated me to write more
and better code. Maybe chatting about it with you will motivate you,
too.

Some that stick out in my mind:

* Andy Lester's "Get Out of Technical Debt Now!"
  <http://petdance.com/perl/technical-debt/>

* Chris Dolan's "How Perl::Critic Facilitates Code Best Practices"

* Luke Closs's "Automated Web Testing with Selenium"
  <http://awesnob.com/perl-on-selenium/>

* chromatic's "Perl Hacks You Never Imagined"
  <http://wgz.org/chromatic/talks/perl_hacks.tar.gz> 
  (I had never imagined them, and am not sure if I can even recount
  them)

* Ben Collins-Sussman's "Subversion Best Practices"
  (though there may not be much perlish related here)

* Andy Lester's "Pragmatic Job Hunting" Similar to older slides:
  <http://petdance.com/perl/how-to-get-hired.pdf>
  (Can you tell I dig listening to Lester?)

I'm looking forward to seeing you all (and any new folks?) next
Tuesday!

-Andy








From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Tue Jul  4 10:30:39 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:30:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] website updates [was: kcrug]
In-Reply-To: <20060704164228.GA20417@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607041230240.14442-100000@goebel.ws>


This is really great. Thanks!

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, Andrew Moore wrote:

>
> It seems like I recognize two pretty good points from what David
> occasionally indicates and what Garrett wrote.
>
> 1) Garrett: we have some pretty good stuff there
> 2) David: but some of it gets out of date pretty quickly considering
>    how often we don't touch the site
>
> To address both of these, I've made some changes such as:
>
> * Changed the "News" page to a "Meetings" page. It lists "notable past
>   meetings" and information about our (ir)regular meetings. Since it
>   doesn't promise to list all of the meetings, it's OK if we miss some
>   of the less memorable ones. (like the time we all left David there
>   to read by himself!) I ran through the list archives and didn't see
>   anything too great about meeting summaries in the past year or two,
>   but I recall Garrett making some for a handful of months. I'll see
>   if I can find more.
>
> * consolidated "Contact" and "About" to list some "prominent members"
>   (David, Garrett, and me) who can be contacted if the list is
>   inapporopriate.
>
> * Reviews and Jobs are there. One keeps itself up to date, and the
>   other is good over a longer time scale. Adding reviews to this page
>   when they come in isn't too bad. They will probably be links to the
>   mailing list anyway.
>
> * updated a ton of broken links. The mailing list archives were moved.
>
> I'm hopeful that we're getting closer to having a good balance between
> an informative site and one that doesn't require monthly
> maintenance. I encourage suggestions or help!
>
> Thanks,
> -Andy
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue Jul  4 10:17:19 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:17:19 -0500
Subject: [Kc] RIP: kcgeek.com?
Message-ID: <20060704171719.GA20671@mooresystems.com>


I removed the link to kcgeek.com from our site. The kcgeek.com site
seems to have been abandoned and taken over by link-farmers or
whatever.

Does anyone know what happened to that gang? I used to drop in on them
occasionally, and some of them expressed interest in attending some of
our meetings.

-Andy



From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Wed Jul  5 06:53:43 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:53:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] [pm_groups] Call for proposals -- Perl Foundation Grants (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607050852320.9759-100000@goebel.ws>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Thomas Klausner <domm at cpan.org>

Hi!

Please forward the Call for Proposals to your local groups. The last
call didn't result in any grants because there weren't enough /
interesting / correct proposals.

http://news.perlfoundation.org/2006/07/call_for_proposals_perl_founda.html



-- 
#!/usr/bin/perl                               http://domm.zsi.at
for(ref bless{},just'another'perl'hacker){s-:+-$"-g&&print$_.$/}
-- 
Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org

pm_groups mailing list
pm_groups at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups


From glenn at netmud.com  Wed Jul  5 13:34:42 2006
From: glenn at netmud.com (Glenn Crocker)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:34:42 -0500
Subject: [Kc] RIP: kcgeek.com?
In-Reply-To: <20060704171719.GA20671@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <018301c6a072$736088a0$070a0a0a@glenn2500>


I believe the site got hacked (phpbb) and they'd lost interest to the extent
that they didn't repair it.

-glenn
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kc-bounces+glenn=netmud.com at pm.org 
> [mailto:kc-bounces+glenn=netmud.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Moore
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:17 PM
> To: kc at pm.org
> Subject: [Kc] RIP: kcgeek.com?
> 
> 
> I removed the link to kcgeek.com from our site. The 
> kcgeek.com site seems to have been abandoned and taken over 
> by link-farmers or whatever.
> 
> Does anyone know what happened to that gang? I used to drop 
> in on them occasionally, and some of them expressed interest 
> in attending some of our meetings.
> 
> -Andy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc


From randall.munden at gmail.com  Wed Jul  5 13:52:56 2006
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:52:56 -0500
Subject: [Kc] RIP: kcgeek.com?
In-Reply-To: <018301c6a072$736088a0$070a0a0a@glenn2500>
References: <20060704171719.GA20671@mooresystems.com>
	<018301c6a072$736088a0$070a0a0a@glenn2500>
Message-ID: <1467780a0607051352n228c53e8pb4981051f6ef35d9@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, someone (our free colo provider) got mad at Joel (aka Lev)
and yanked our box.  In the interim kcgeek.com got sniped but we
grabbed kcgeek.net.

I've the box on my desk at home, it is rebuilt and ready to go into
another free colo I tracked down -- finally, all the free/cheap perl
work I did is paying off.

As soon as I get off my lazy ass and truck the box out there we should
be back up.  In the meantime most of the old gang is on
irc://impala.fluxcapacitor.net #kcgeek.

--blather

On 7/5/06, Glenn Crocker <glenn at netmud.com> wrote:
>
> I believe the site got hacked (phpbb) and they'd lost interest to the extent
> that they didn't repair it.
>
> -glenn
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: kc-bounces+glenn=netmud.com at pm.org
> > [mailto:kc-bounces+glenn=netmud.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Moore
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:17 PM
> > To: kc at pm.org
> > Subject: [Kc] RIP: kcgeek.com?
> >
> >
> > I removed the link to kcgeek.com from our site. The
> > kcgeek.com site seems to have been abandoned and taken over
> > by link-farmers or whatever.
> >
> > Does anyone know what happened to that gang? I used to drop
> > in on them occasionally, and some of them expressed interest
> > in attending some of our meetings.
> >
> > -Andy
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kc mailing list
> > kc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


-- 
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed Jul  5 14:25:35 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:25:35 -0500
Subject: [Kc] RIP: kcgeek.com?
In-Reply-To: <1467780a0607051352n228c53e8pb4981051f6ef35d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060704171719.GA20671@mooresystems.com>
	<018301c6a072$736088a0$070a0a0a@glenn2500>
	<1467780a0607051352n228c53e8pb4981051f6ef35d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060705212535.GA32568@mooresystems.com>


On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:52:56PM -0500, Randall Munden wrote:
> As soon as I get off my lazy ass and truck the box out there we should
> be back up.  In the meantime most of the old gang is on
> irc://impala.fluxcapacitor.net #kcgeek.

Aha!

Good to see you're on the kc.pm.org list, Randy, and I hope all is
well these days.

keep us posted on the development!

-Andy







From davidnicol at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 01:17:59 2006
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:17:59 -0500
Subject: [Kc] website updates [was: kcrug]
In-Reply-To: <20060704164228.GA20417@mooresystems.com>
References: <20060704145526.GA19915@mooresystems.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607041021090.14103-100000@goebel.ws>
	<20060704164228.GA20417@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20607060117g209976f1x1b9ab90e3a36ee2@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/4/06, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
>   doesn't promise to list all of the meetings, it's OK if we miss some
>   of the less memorable ones. (like the time we all left David there
>   to read by himself!)

I remain bewildered that nobody else wanted to celebrate twenty years
of RFC 821.
August 2007 will be twentyfive years of it, we can ceremonially read
it again then.

-- 
David L Nicol
E-mail is legendarily opaque to nuance
and it becomes less so only
with continuous honest feedback.

From davidnicol at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 01:25:22 2006
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:25:22 -0500
Subject: [Kc] OT: kcrug
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607040905580.13749-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <934f64a20607031825v28e85338vc90f22f3bff27488@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607040905580.13749-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <934f64a20607060125q4632cdfcw76cc2417cb2bc24a@mail.gmail.com>

Speaking as the guy everyone here seems to be going to for
authoritative instructions,
I am entirely and completely thrilled with Andrew's work on the
kc.pm.org web site,
especially with the way it has been refactored to not require
continuous maintenance.



-- 
David L Nicol
E-mail is legendarily opaque to nuance
and it becomes less so only
with continuous honest feedback.

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Thu Jul  6 07:27:59 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:27:59 -0500
Subject: [Kc] OT: kcrug
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20607060125q4632cdfcw76cc2417cb2bc24a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <934f64a20607031825v28e85338vc90f22f3bff27488@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607040905580.13749-100000@goebel.ws>
	<934f64a20607060125q4632cdfcw76cc2417cb2bc24a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060706142759.GA4424@mooresystems.com>

On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 03:25:22AM -0500, David Nicol wrote:
> Speaking as the guy everyone here seems to be going to for
> authoritative instructions,
> I am entirely and completely thrilled with Andrew's work on the
> kc.pm.org web site,
> especially with the way it has been refactored to not require
> continuous maintenance.

Hey, thanks! I think we're better off, too.

-Andy



From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 07:50:10 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:50:10 -0500
Subject: [Kc] OT: kcrug
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3017.1152196892.18728.kc@pm.org>
References: <mailman.3017.1152196892.18728.kc@pm.org>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607060750x61075aeev66a4e202415de10@mail.gmail.com>

1001tutorials looks like just an ad site, don't think it is relevant anymore?

http://www.1001tutorials.com/

Doesn't seem like the webserver is up anymore.

http://quick-tips.com/local-search/pages/Computers/Languages/Perl/Tutorials/

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Thu Jul  6 08:35:01 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:35:01 -0500
Subject: [Kc] more website updates
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607060750x61075aeev66a4e202415de10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3017.1152196892.18728.kc@pm.org>
	<99dd19c90607060750x61075aeev66a4e202415de10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060706153500.GA4905@mooresystems.com>

On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 09:50:10AM -0500, djgoku wrote:
> 1001tutorials looks like just an ad site, don't think it is relevant anymore?
> http://www.1001tutorials.com/
> 
> Doesn't seem like the webserver is up anymore.
> http://quick-tips.com/local-search/pages/Computers/Languages/Perl/Tutorials/

Thanks,

I changed the "Tutorials" section of the side bar to a less commercial
"Perl" section with some of the usual suspects in it. Please let me
know if you have any other additions or anything.

Thanks!
-Andy


From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 08:35:28 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:35:28 -0500
Subject: [Kc] OT: kcrug
In-Reply-To: <20060706150651.7529.qmail@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <99dd19c90607060750x61075aeev66a4e202415de10@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060706150651.7529.qmail@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607060835y4a800128x2b0a96427973e691@mail.gmail.com>

Don't know how relevant this is but I made a favicon.ico, just copied
the image from the kc.pm.org site and put a white bg instead of the
brown. =)

http://djgoku.dyndns.org/dj_goku/images/favicon.ico

From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 08:39:59 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:39:59 -0500
Subject: [Kc] more website updates
In-Reply-To: <20060706153500.GA4905@mooresystems.com>
References: <mailman.3017.1152196892.18728.kc@pm.org>
	<99dd19c90607060750x61075aeev66a4e202415de10@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060706153500.GA4905@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607060839q21f5f749y47dece99c4643894@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/6/06, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
> I changed the "Tutorials" section of the side bar to a less commercial
> "Perl" section with some of the usual suspects in it. Please let me
> know if you have any other additions or anything.

Ha, I forgot to change the subject =) I was like KRUG? haha well I
sent a favicon in my last email, don't know if you want to use it or
not. Cool, thanks for changing it.

Jonathan

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Thu Jul  6 08:58:50 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:58:50 -0500
Subject: [Kc] favicon
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607060835y4a800128x2b0a96427973e691@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607060750x61075aeev66a4e202415de10@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060706150651.7529.qmail@web55113.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<99dd19c90607060835y4a800128x2b0a96427973e691@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060706155850.GA5108@mooresystems.com>

On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 10:35:28AM -0500, djgoku wrote:
> Don't know how relevant this is but I made a favicon.ico, just copied
> the image from the kc.pm.org site and put a white bg instead of the
> brown. =)

Thanks! I added it.

-Andy

From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 09:16:01 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:16:01 -0500
Subject: [Kc]  last night went pretty well did it not?
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607060916m62715a41lf8077342093def93@mail.gmail.com>

>so we're on for next month too, to have our intrepid voyagers Doug and
>Andrew discuss their adventures in Chicago.
>
>Who's for setting up a domain registry?  There are enough commercial
>static IP addresses between kcpm and kclug that we could easily do
>reliable name service.

Sorry not sure what you mean totally by this, but setup something like
KCPM.org instead of kc.pm.org? Do someone have a box that can be
COLOed? Or how would we do that?

From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Thu Jul  6 10:31:01 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (Garrett Goebel)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:31:01 -0500
Subject: [Kc] more website updates
In-Reply-To: <20060706153500.GA4905@mooresystems.com>
References: <mailman.3017.1152196892.18728.kc@pm.org>
	<99dd19c90607060750x61075aeev66a4e202415de10@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060706153500.GA4905@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <33EBE54D-0387-4C30-8425-E357290C2557@goebel.ws>

I updated the copyright notice in the footer. Looks like it hadn't  
been updated since 2003!

On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Andrew Moore wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 09:50:10AM -0500, djgoku wrote:
>> 1001tutorials looks like just an ad site, don't think it is  
>> relevant anymore?
>> http://www.1001tutorials.com/
>>
>> Doesn't seem like the webserver is up anymore.
>> http://quick-tips.com/local-search/pages/Computers/Languages/Perl/ 
>> Tutorials/
>
> Thanks,
>
> I changed the "Tutorials" section of the side bar to a less commercial
> "Perl" section with some of the usual suspects in it. Please let me
> know if you have any other additions or anything.
>
> Thanks!
> -Andy
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


From davidnicol at gmail.com  Fri Jul  7 15:48:41 2006
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:48:41 -0500
Subject: [Kc] last night went pretty well did it not?
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607060916m62715a41lf8077342093def93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607060916m62715a41lf8077342093def93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <934f64a20607071548r5f65364erb7ffcfffea985843@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/6/06, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:

> >Who's for setting up a domain registry?  There are enough commercial
> >static IP addresses between kcpm and kclug that we could easily do
> >reliable name service.
>
> Sorry not sure what you mean totally by this, but setup something like
> KCPM.org instead of kc.pm.org? Do someone have a box that can be
> COLOed? Or how would we do that?

no, I don't mean registering a domain, I mean registering a registry. Like
godaddy or whatever.

From matthew at veradox.com  Tue Jul 11 07:41:29 2006
From: matthew at veradox.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:41:29 -0500
Subject: [Kc] mod_perl position
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20607071548r5f65364erb7ffcfffea985843@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607060916m62715a41lf8077342093def93@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20607071548r5f65364erb7ffcfffea985843@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44B3B899.9070904@veradox.com>

Got a job opportunity here that's not listed at perl jobs.  Contact 
Teresa Burton <TBurton at Technisource.com> if you're interested. 

Rumor has it that this job is with UMB.


Title:       Mod Perl / Perl Developer
Skills:     Perl , Mod Perl , Java
 
Date:     7-10-2006
Location:     Kansas City, MO
Area code:     816
 
Tax term:     CON_IND CON_W2
Pay rate:     $38-$48/hour
Length:     6 months - 1 year

Job description:
We is searching for a Mod_Perl / Perl Developer for a six month contract 
position with likely extensions. Our client is located in the Kansas 
City metro area. The qualified candidate will be responsible for 
secondary support of Perl applications. The client has hundreds of batch 
Perl scripts that they will be converting to a new Java batch processing 
framework. Java experience is desired to take existing Perl scripts and 
convert them into a simple Java batch jobs using a new batch framework.

Requirements:
Mod Perl is the primary skill
2-3 years of Java experience

**Equal opportunity employer
**Only candidates who are eligible to work in the US without a Visa
 
Travel required:     none
Telecommute:     no

From randall.munden at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 08:05:33 2006
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:05:33 -0500
Subject: [Kc] mod_perl position
In-Reply-To: <44B3B899.9070904@veradox.com>
References: <99dd19c90607060916m62715a41lf8077342093def93@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20607071548r5f65364erb7ffcfffea985843@mail.gmail.com>
	<44B3B899.9070904@veradox.com>
Message-ID: <1467780a0607110805g410ad30cudb492ca35ed76544@mail.gmail.com>

It most likely is at UMB.  Eric gave his notice last week.

On 7/11/06, Matthew Wilson <matthew at veradox.com> wrote:
> Got a job opportunity here that's not listed at perl jobs.  Contact
> Teresa Burton <TBurton at Technisource.com> if you're interested.
>
> Rumor has it that this job is with UMB.
>
>
> Title:       Mod Perl / Perl Developer
> Skills:     Perl , Mod Perl , Java
>
> Date:     7-10-2006
> Location:     Kansas City, MO
> Area code:     816
>
> Tax term:     CON_IND CON_W2
> Pay rate:     $38-$48/hour
> Length:     6 months - 1 year
>
> Job description:
> We is searching for a Mod_Perl / Perl Developer for a six month contract
> position with likely extensions. Our client is located in the Kansas
> City metro area. The qualified candidate will be responsible for
> secondary support of Perl applications. The client has hundreds of batch
> Perl scripts that they will be converting to a new Java batch processing
> framework. Java experience is desired to take existing Perl scripts and
> convert them into a simple Java batch jobs using a new batch framework.
>
> Requirements:
> Mod Perl is the primary skill
> 2-3 years of Java experience
>
> **Equal opportunity employer
> **Only candidates who are eligible to work in the US without a Visa
>
> Travel required:     none
> Telecommute:     no
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


-- 
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue Jul 11 08:47:07 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:47:07 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
Message-ID: <20060711154707.GA9588@mooresystems.com>


Tonight is the second Tuesday of July. That means you head to Planet
Sub and chat about perl.

I can fill you guys in on YAPC in Chicago and some interesting talks I
attended there. http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/2006-July/000460.html

I also have been doing some work extending Perl::Critic and can chat
about that and PPI if there's any interest.

I'll bet that David would talk about the Monty Hall problem or his
work on a perl interface to the SEE ecmascript engine if anyone
asks. (I hope I remember to.)
http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/2006-June/000447.html

I hope to see the same old crew and maybe some newcomers tonight at
7pm at Planet Sub at 50th and Main. (And I really hope I don't
forget.)

-Andy







From djgoku at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 08:50:14 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:50:14 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <20060711154707.GA9588@mooresystems.com>
References: <20060711154707.GA9588@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607110850r35fb377ay2be9c13724f49908@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
>
> Tonight is the second Tuesday of July. That means you head to Planet
> Sub and chat about perl.
>
> I can fill you guys in on YAPC in Chicago and some interesting talks I
> attended there. http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/2006-July/000460.html
>
> I also have been doing some work extending Perl::Critic and can chat
> about that and PPI if there's any interest.
>
> I'll bet that David would talk about the Monty Hall problem or his
> work on a perl interface to the SEE ecmascript engine if anyone
> asks. (I hope I remember to.)
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/2006-June/000447.html
>
> I hope to see the same old crew and maybe some newcomers tonight at
> 7pm at Planet Sub at 50th and Main. (And I really hope I don't
> forget.)

Is there internet their? Or just to come to eat/chat? I plan on coming.

Jonathan

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Tue Jul 11 09:01:35 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:01:35 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607110850r35fb377ay2be9c13724f49908@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060711154707.GA9588@mooresystems.com>
	<99dd19c90607110850r35fb377ay2be9c13724f49908@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060711160135.GB9588@mooresystems.com>

On Tue, Jul 11, 2006 at 10:50:14AM -0500, djgoku wrote:
> Is there internet their? Or just to come to eat/chat? I plan on coming.

I don't think there is Internet access there. We typically sit around
one of the big tables in one of the front rooms and chat and have a
few sandwiches. There used to be beer on tap, but I think it's gone
permanently this time.

You are now in charge of asking the following question tonight
(because I'll probably forget):

"Is there any interest in moving next month's meeting to someplace
with beer on tap and free wireless Internet access?" If we get any
suggestions or interest, we can do some kind of straw poll or
something. I recall Garrett putting a bit of work into solving this
problem some time ago.

Surely we can find some place centrally located that will cater to our
diverse needs.

I look forward to seeing you there!

-Andy




From davidnicol at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 15:10:10 2006
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:10:10 -0500
Subject: [Kc] tonight
Message-ID: <934f64a20607111510l2561db69vdfc3acb9c919c077@mail.gmail.com>

reminder; meeting tonight.

I personally will not be able to be there.

I look forward to reading a summary.

-- 
David L Nicol
E-mail is legendarily opaque to nuance
and it becomes less so only
with continuous honest feedback.

From stephenclouse at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 03:57:47 2006
From: stephenclouse at gmail.com (Stephen Clouse)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:57:47 -0500
Subject: [Kc] mod_perl position
In-Reply-To: <1467780a0607110805g410ad30cudb492ca35ed76544@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607060916m62715a41lf8077342093def93@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20607071548r5f65364erb7ffcfffea985843@mail.gmail.com>
	<44B3B899.9070904@veradox.com>
	<1467780a0607110805g410ad30cudb492ca35ed76544@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d0ee2170607120357q2c2d1e5as75a10dd53964b835@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Randall Munden <randall.munden at gmail.com> wrote:
> It most likely is at UMB.  Eric gave his notice last week.
>
> On 7/11/06, Matthew Wilson <matthew at veradox.com> wrote:
> > secondary support of Perl applications. The client has hundreds of batch
> > Perl scripts that they will be converting to a new Java batch processing
> > framework. Java experience is desired to take existing Perl scripts and
> > convert them into a simple Java batch jobs using a new batch framework.

Now why ever would we want to help them move *away* from Perl?  :)

-- 
Stephen Clouse <stephenclouse at gmail.com>

From matthew at veradox.com  Wed Jul 12 06:01:30 2006
From: matthew at veradox.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:01:30 -0500
Subject: [Kc] tonight
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20607111510l2561db69vdfc3acb9c919c077@mail.gmail.com>
References: <934f64a20607111510l2561db69vdfc3acb9c919c077@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44B4F2AA.6080007@veradox.com>

How was the meeting?  I'm sorry I was not able to make it as well.


David Nicol wrote:
> reminder; meeting tonight.
>
> I personally will not be able to be there.
>
> I look forward to reading a summary.
>
>   

From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Wed Jul 12 07:31:07 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:31:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <20060711160135.GB9588@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607120854420.29593-100000@goebel.ws>

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006, Andrew Moore wrote:
>
> "Is there any interest in moving next month's meeting to someplace
> with beer on tap and free wireless Internet access?" If we get any
> suggestions or interest, we can do some kind of straw poll or
> something. I recall Garrett putting a bit of work into solving this
> problem some time ago.
>
> Surely we can find some place centrally located that will cater to our
> diverse needs.

beer on tap would be good.

way back when... I collected the work and home zipcodes of people, looked
up their longitude and latitude and found the average of each. I think
that pointed to somewhere around Shawnee Mission Parkway and I-35.

There are many problems with that approach. The people who respond often
aren't the ones who come. And simply locating meetings at the cross-hairs
ignores where people are coming from and the availability of major roads
to get there.

In the end, all my effort was for naught. Planet Sub was where the group
had last been meeting before I'd gotten involved. Well, I think we did end
up solving the problem of overlap with KCLUG meeting times. Does anyone
know the  current KCLUG schedule?

On the one hand, having a single meeting place makes things very simple.
And having a regular time even more so. On the other hand, having meetings
out in the vicinity of KC, MO is pretty discouraging to the Lawrence and
Topeka crowds. Who pretty much never come.

If anyone else is up for it, I'd like to try having 2 standing
"social" meetings per month on different days of the week... one near
KC,MO and another out by I-35/I-435/K10. Where the week of the month
would not conflict with KCLUG meetings. Using different days of the week
would help alleviate scheduling conflicts for some people for those
people who aren't too far away from either location. I think that
would maximize the number of people who could be involved.

If there's no standing agenda to the meetings. Then I think people might
be more likely to make it a regular thing. If the meeting venues are near
enough to JCCC and UMKC/Rockhurst... we might eventually pick up some
spill over interest from the college crowd.

thoughts?

Garrett


From djgoku at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 07:04:08 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:04:08 -0500
Subject: [Kc] tonight
In-Reply-To: <44B4F2AA.6080007@veradox.com>
References: <934f64a20607111510l2561db69vdfc3acb9c919c077@mail.gmail.com>
	<44B4F2AA.6080007@veradox.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607120704m5a884e08h74e29ae45f4a4b34@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/12/06, Matthew Wilson <matthew at veradox.com> wrote:
> How was the meeting?  I'm sorry I was not able to make it as well.

I am not sure what to say, I didn't get a sense that Perl was used
that much from the talk(s). It seemed that some used it pretty
exclusively, but other used a mix of languages + Perl. I think about 8
people attended the meeting.

Do a lot of you use Perl pretty much to do everything (Software
Development) or is it just a part of other languages you use to get
the job done.

From randall.munden at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 07:14:31 2006
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:14:31 -0500
Subject: [Kc] mod_perl position
In-Reply-To: <5d0ee2170607120357q2c2d1e5as75a10dd53964b835@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607060916m62715a41lf8077342093def93@mail.gmail.com>
	<934f64a20607071548r5f65364erb7ffcfffea985843@mail.gmail.com>
	<44B3B899.9070904@veradox.com>
	<1467780a0607110805g410ad30cudb492ca35ed76544@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d0ee2170607120357q2c2d1e5as75a10dd53964b835@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1467780a0607120714t43cdb77q381e4288a16adfff@mail.gmail.com>

I did some java while I was there.  I bit my tongue and swallowed a
bit of my pride because the bill collectors won't accept high ideals
and hubris.  I bolted as soon as I had the chance.

Java has a few (very few) good qualities, however -- just like Marxism
-- as soon as you get people involved everything begins to go to crap.
 Additionally, as you increase the incidence of stupid people in the
group people you approach crap at a much higher rate (and it tends to
be piled higher and deeper).

On 7/12/06, Stephen Clouse <stephenclouse at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/11/06, Randall Munden <randall.munden at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It most likely is at UMB.  Eric gave his notice last week.
> >
> > On 7/11/06, Matthew Wilson <matthew at veradox.com> wrote:
> > > secondary support of Perl applications. The client has hundreds of batch
> > > Perl scripts that they will be converting to a new Java batch processing
> > > framework. Java experience is desired to take existing Perl scripts and
> > > convert them into a simple Java batch jobs using a new batch framework.
>
> Now why ever would we want to help them move *away* from Perl?  :)
>
> --
> Stephen Clouse <stephenclouse at gmail.com>
>


-- 
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather

From djgoku at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 07:15:55 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:15:55 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607120854420.29593-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <20060711160135.GB9588@mooresystems.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607120854420.29593-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607120715v27c2c555v17ede03592208153@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/12/06, C. Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws> wrote:
>
> In the end, all my effort was for naught. Planet Sub was where the group
> had last been meeting before I'd gotten involved. Well, I think we did end
> up solving the problem of overlap with KCLUG meeting times. Does anyone
> know the  current KCLUG schedule?

Quoted from KCLUG.org "KCLUG meetings are held on the first Wednesday
and third Tuesday of each month."

> On the one hand, having a single meeting place makes things very simple.
> And having a regular time even more so. On the other hand, having meetings
> out in the vicinity of KC, MO is pretty discouraging to the Lawrence and
> Topeka crowds. Who pretty much never come.
>
> If anyone else is up for it, I'd like to try having 2 standing
> "social" meetings per month on different days of the week... one near
> KC,MO and another out by I-35/I-435/K10. Where the week of the month
> would not conflict with KCLUG meetings. Using different days of the week
> would help alleviate scheduling conflicts for some people for those
> people who aren't too far away from either location. I think that
> would maximize the number of people who could be involved.

Maybe 2nd Tuesday and 4th Wednesday of the month?

> If there's no standing agenda to the meetings. Then I think people might
> be more likely to make it a regular thing. If the meeting venues are near
> enough to JCCC and UMKC/Rockhurst... we might eventually pick up some
> spill over interest from the college crowd.

I have setup a JCCCLUG, there isn't much activity on the "board/list".
I know they have *nix classes, which I have taken one of them. Maybe
we could have the teachers help put the word out for groups like us. I
have wanted to give a talk about *nix maybe in the intro class, but
don't think I have enough experience for that yet.

From randall.munden at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 07:18:57 2006
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:18:57 -0500
Subject: [Kc] tonight
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607120704m5a884e08h74e29ae45f4a4b34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <934f64a20607111510l2561db69vdfc3acb9c919c077@mail.gmail.com>
	<44B4F2AA.6080007@veradox.com>
	<99dd19c90607120704m5a884e08h74e29ae45f4a4b34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1467780a0607120718k666e39d1xed266113a4dde374@mail.gmail.com>

I've used it almost exclusively (and have been paid for it) for over
10 years now.

On 7/12/06, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/12/06, Matthew Wilson <matthew at veradox.com> wrote:
> > How was the meeting?  I'm sorry I was not able to make it as well.
>
> I am not sure what to say, I didn't get a sense that Perl was used
> that much from the talk(s). It seemed that some used it pretty
> exclusively, but other used a mix of languages + Perl. I think about 8
> people attended the meeting.
>
> Do a lot of you use Perl pretty much to do everything (Software
> Development) or is it just a part of other languages you use to get
> the job done.
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


-- 
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed Jul 12 07:49:32 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:49:32 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607120854420.29593-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <20060711160135.GB9588@mooresystems.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607120854420.29593-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <20060712144932.GC10807@mooresystems.com>

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 09:31:07AM -0500, C. Garrett Goebel wrote:
> If anyone else is up for it, I'd like to try having 2 standing
> "social" meetings per month on different days of the week... one near
> KC,MO and another out by I-35/I-435/K10. Where the week of the month
> would not conflict with KCLUG meetings. Using different days of the week
> would help alleviate scheduling conflicts for some people for those
> people who aren't too far away from either location. I think that
> would maximize the number of people who could be involved.

I think that having two meetings per month would mean that we would
get about half as many people in each meeting. I personally am not too
keen on going to biweekly meetings, so I'd just go to every other
one. I'd hate to get essentially two groups: kcmo.pm.org and
kcsouthland.pm.org. That's a bad scenerio.

I would attend monthly meetings if we alternated between KCMO and
suburbia each month or even just moved them to Overland Park for a
while. I don't mind driving out to JCCC or wherever for
meetings. Maybe it's time we Missourians pay our dues like the
SprintLand folks have been doing for ~5 years.

What about someplace like Barley's Brewhouse at about 119 and Quivera?
Free WiFi, beer on tap, tolerable barfood, and surely wouldn't mind if
we scooted a few tables together?

> If there's no standing agenda to the meetings. Then I think people might
> be more likely to make it a regular thing. 

I'll try to be more diligent about indicating anticipated discussion
topics. I recall that when you encouraged book reviews, weekly
puzzles, and stuff like that the attendance was higher and the
discussion stayed more centered around perl.

> If the meeting venues are near
> enough to JCCC and UMKC/Rockhurst... we might eventually pick up some
> spill over interest from the college crowd.

Anyone know any applicable college mailing lists to occasionally
announce to? I think that David is our official college contact or
something.

-A

PS - I will not drive to Lima for meetings!


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed Jul 12 08:03:04 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:03:04 -0500
Subject: [Kc]  July meeting wrapup
In-Reply-To: <44B4F2AA.6080007@veradox.com>
References: <934f64a20607111510l2561db69vdfc3acb9c919c077@mail.gmail.com>
	<44B4F2AA.6080007@veradox.com>
Message-ID: <20060712150304.GD10807@mooresystems.com>

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 08:01:30AM -0500, Matthew Wilson wrote:
> How was the meeting?  I'm sorry I was not able to make it as well.

I thought it was a pretty good meeting. Some topics that I recall:

* what is Perl::Critic
* CJ's question about setting cookies with CGI scripts
* I mentioned that Andy Lester <http://petdance.com/perl/> offered to
  come to KC to talk.
* Bugracking and source repository experiences
* Inside-Out objects

Pretty good turnout, too.

Thanks, guys!

-Andy

PS - I ended up not going to see "Nacho Libre". I'll wait for DVD on
that one.




From djgoku at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 08:09:35 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:09:35 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <20060712144932.GC10807@mooresystems.com>
References: <20060711160135.GB9588@mooresystems.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607120854420.29593-100000@goebel.ws>
	<20060712144932.GC10807@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607120809v3ab0208fl2e8fbdb57ccef95@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/12/06, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
> I think that having two meetings per month would mean that we would
> get about half as many people in each meeting. I personally am not too
> keen on going to biweekly meetings, so I'd just go to every other
> one. I'd hate to get essentially two groups: kcmo.pm.org and
> kcsouthland.pm.org. That's a bad scenerio.
>
> I would attend monthly meetings if we alternated between KCMO and
> suburbia each month or even just moved them to Overland Park for a
> while. I don't mind driving out to JCCC or wherever for
> meetings. Maybe it's time we Missourians pay our dues like the
> SprintLand folks have been doing for ~5 years.
>
> What about someplace like Barley's Brewhouse at about 119 and Quivera?
> Free WiFi, beer on tap, tolerable barfood, and surely wouldn't mind if
> we scooted a few tables together?
>
> > If there's no standing agenda to the meetings. Then I think people might
> > be more likely to make it a regular thing.
>
> I'll try to be more diligent about indicating anticipated discussion
> topics. I recall that when you encouraged book reviews, weekly
> puzzles, and stuff like that the attendance was higher and the
> discussion stayed more centered around perl.

I think that would be awesome! I can possibly give a review of
Learning Perl after I finished reading it.

> > If the meeting venues are near
> > enough to JCCC and UMKC/Rockhurst... we might eventually pick up some
> > spill over interest from the college crowd.
>
> Anyone know any applicable college mailing lists to occasionally
> announce to? I think that David is our official college contact or
> something.

I am currently a student at JCCC soon to be UMKC, I am not sure I will
be able to keep my JCCC account after I leave.

From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Wed Jul 12 09:14:02 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:14:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607120715v27c2c555v17ede03592208153@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607121109300.30082-100000@goebel.ws>

> Maybe 2nd Tuesday and 4th Wednesday of the month?

I'll have to check with my wife's competing monthly book club and coffee
night. But I'm sure I'll be able to be a regular at at least one of those
if not both.

> I have setup a JCCCLUG, there isn't much activity on the "board/list".
> I know they have *nix classes, which I have taken one of them. Maybe
> we could have the teachers help put the word out for groups like us. I
> have wanted to give a talk about *nix maybe in the intro class, but
> don't think I have enough experience for that yet.

You are exactly the type of person who could bridge the gap between old
hat Perl Mongers and potential new ones.

Do you think the TA's and prof's would be willing to spread the word?

Any thoughts on good locations around JCCC?

Beer is nice, but age restrictions aren't.

Internet access is nice, but we've managed just fine without it.

cheers,

Garrett


From djgoku at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 08:52:48 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:52:48 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607121109300.30082-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <99dd19c90607120715v27c2c555v17ede03592208153@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607121109300.30082-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607120852qf7735cfq858700a1a8c55df9@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/12/06, C. Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws> wrote:
> > Maybe 2nd Tuesday and 4th Wednesday of the month?
>
> I'll have to check with my wife's competing monthly book club and coffee
> night. But I'm sure I'll be able to be a regular at at least one of those
> if not both.
>
> > I have setup a JCCCLUG, there isn't much activity on the "board/list".
> > I know they have *nix classes, which I have taken one of them. Maybe
> > we could have the teachers help put the word out for groups like us. I
> > have wanted to give a talk about *nix maybe in the intro class, but
> > don't think I have enough experience for that yet.
>
> You are exactly the type of person who could bridge the gap between old
> hat Perl Mongers and potential new ones.

/me wonders what the average age of KCPM group is.

> Do you think the TA's and prof's would be willing to spread the word?

If I remember correctly I emailed my *nix teacher after finishing her
course if I could come speak/mass email her students or have her
foward an email about groups and I think she said yes? I can find out.
There is at least two *nix teachers (I think).

> Any thoughts on good locations around JCCC?

No Idea, will have to think on that one.

> Beer is nice, but age restrictions aren't.

Haha.

> Internet access is nice, but we've managed just fine without it.

From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Wed Jul 12 09:32:12 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:32:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] Reminder: Meeting tonight 7pm at Planet Sub
In-Reply-To: <20060712144932.GC10807@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607121116330.30082-100000@goebel.ws>

> I think that having two meetings per month would mean that we would
> get about half as many people in each meeting. I personally am not too
> keen on going to biweekly meetings, so I'd just go to every other
> one. I'd hate to get essentially two groups: kcmo.pm.org and
> kcsouthland.pm.org. That's a bad scenerio.

You're probably right... We're already getting as many kcmo people as
we're going to get.


> I would attend monthly meetings if we alternated between KCMO and
> suburbia each month or even just moved them to Overland Park for a
> while. I don't mind driving out to JCCC or wherever for
> meetings. Maybe it's time we Missourians pay our dues like the
> SprintLand folks have been doing for ~5 years.
>
> What about someplace like Barley's Brewhouse at about 119 and Quivera?
> Free WiFi, beer on tap, tolerable barfood, and surely wouldn't mind if
> we scooted a few tables together?

Sounds fine to me. Good location for people driving in from the west or
south. Do they have any private rooms? And if so, does it cost anything to
reserve them?


> > If there's no standing agenda to the meetings. Then I think people might
> > be more likely to make it a regular thing.
>
> I'll try to be more diligent about indicating anticipated discussion
> topics. I recall that when you encouraged book reviews, weekly
> puzzles, and stuff like that the attendance was higher and the
> discussion stayed more centered around perl.

It was also a not insignificant effort. And when I failed to come through,
I think it reflected badly on the group. I.e., we lost people. I either
wasn't very good at delegating... or organizing/motivating people to whom
I could delegate. I would certainly be interested in helping to shoulder
the burden of organizing stuff.

The other hard part is once you start organizing a thing or three, you
need to make sure you're hitting the things that are both widely focused
enough to be generally interesting, but grant room for narrow focused
topics to be pursued in depth. That way you cover beginner to advanced and
Perl dilitants(sp?) to those who use Perl to pound square pegs into round
holes on a daily basis.


> PS - I will not drive to Lima for meetings!

Halfway?

cheers,

Garrett


From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Wed Jul 12 09:37:13 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:37:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] July meeting wrapup
In-Reply-To: <20060712150304.GD10807@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607121132510.30082-100000@goebel.ws>

> * Inside-Out objects

What was the consensus on them?

Is anybody using them in production code? Any particular lessons learned?

Are people using Class::Std, Object::InsideOut, or something else?

cheers,

Garrett


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed Jul 12 09:09:55 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:09:55 -0500
Subject: [Kc] July meeting wrapup
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607121132510.30082-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <20060712150304.GD10807@mooresystems.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607121132510.30082-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <20060712160955.GH10807@mooresystems.com>

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:37:13AM -0500, C. Garrett Goebel wrote:
> > * Inside-Out objects
> 
> What was the consensus on them?
> 
> Is anybody using them in production code? Any particular lessons learned?

Not that I could tell. I certainly won't do it for a while. I wouldn't
put that maintenance duty on anyone I know.
 
> Are people using Class::Std, Object::InsideOut, or something else?

>From the talk I attended at YAPC, it seemed that Object::InsideOut or
maybe Class:InsideOut are good to use. Class::Std is not thread safe,
but it's rich in features, I think.

You're gonna shoot yourself in the foot by leaking memory from bad
destructors and lazy inheritors, methinks.

But in the meantime, they're interesting to look at.

Do you use them at all?

-Andy


From djgoku at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 11:15:09 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:15:09 -0500
Subject: [Kc] KCPM IRC Channel
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607121115n236f4fe7u393315c0c30b18ab@mail.gmail.com>

Would there be any interest of having a #KCPM IRC channel?

Jonathan

From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed Jul 12 11:20:58 2006
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:20:58 -0500
Subject: [Kc] KCPM IRC Channel
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607121115n236f4fe7u393315c0c30b18ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607121115n236f4fe7u393315c0c30b18ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060712182058.GA25701@mooresystems.com>

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 01:15:09PM -0500, djgoku wrote:
> Would there be any interest of having a #KCPM IRC channel?

I occasionally lurk on #perl on irc.perl.org. I'd open a window in
#kcpm on that network or something like that if there were anyone else
there.

-A


From jyoung79 at kc.rr.com  Thu Jul 13 15:30:45 2006
From: jyoung79 at kc.rr.com (jay)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:30:45 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Question
Message-ID: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>

Hi,

Just curious if anyone here could give me some advice on if there's  
any schools around here that have good Perl classes?  I've done a few  
Perl programs but not many (and I'm very, very thankful for this list  
and the many helpful people that helped me out when I got stuck).  I  
looked on-line today at a few schools (Penn Valley, ITT, DeVry,  
etc.).  None looked real promising.  I know JCCC has a Perl class but  
I'm not sure if it's what I'm looking for.

I'd really like to find a school close by that teaches Perl  
programming in todays real world.  Most classes seem to just follow a  
book, which is helpful, but doesn't show me anything of what it's  
used for in todays business world.  There's a few other languages I'd  
like to learn later on as well...  like Python, PHP, etc. but don't  
know if there's a decent school around here that teaches these.   
Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts you all might have.

Thanks!

Jay

From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul 13 19:46:09 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:46:09 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Question
In-Reply-To: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>
References: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607131946p6a6e015dsfb1e2b33cfb21f3f@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/13/06, jay <jyoung79 at kc.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just curious if anyone here could give me some advice on if there's
> any schools around here that have good Perl classes?  I've done a few
> Perl programs but not many (and I'm very, very thankful for this list
> and the many helpful people that helped me out when I got stuck).  I
> looked on-line today at a few schools (Penn Valley, ITT, DeVry,
> etc.).  None looked real promising.  I know JCCC has a Perl class but
> I'm not sure if it's what I'm looking for.
>
> I'd really like to find a school close by that teaches Perl
> programming in todays real world.  Most classes seem to just follow a
> book, which is helpful, but doesn't show me anything of what it's
> used for in todays business world.  There's a few other languages I'd
> like to learn later on as well...  like Python, PHP, etc. but don't
> know if there's a decent school around here that teaches these.
> Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts you all might have.

I am really liking Learning Perl, 4th Edition from Oreilly,
(http://www.oreillynet.com/catalog/learnperl4/). You can find it on
half.com for about 25$. A good site for beginners and resources:
(http://learn.perl.org/). Also there are free books for learning Perl:
(http://www.perl.org/books/library.html). I have no idea of Perl
classes @ colleges.

From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Fri Jul 14 09:02:52 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (C. Garrett Goebel)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:02:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Kc] Question
In-Reply-To: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607140849220.21654-100000@goebel.ws>

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, jay wrote:
>
> Just curious if anyone here could give me some advice on if there's
> any schools around here that have good Perl classes?  I've done a few
> Perl programs but not many (and I'm very, very thankful for this list
> and the many helpful people that helped me out when I got stuck).  I
> looked on-line today at a few schools (Penn Valley, ITT, DeVry,
> etc.).  None looked real promising.  I know JCCC has a Perl class but
> I'm not sure if it's what I'm looking for.

A google search on "perl" "training" "kansas city" turns up a few courses.
Those might give you access to other real world programmers. But I imagine
the people in your class won't have a lot of real world perl experience.

Perl doesn't have the pedigree to make it popular in academic circles. I
remember reading how Damian Conway's peers told him he'd ruin his academic
career if he continued pursuing his interest in Perl. So while you might
find the occassional good Perl course at a college, I think you'll usually
find that Perl is given short shrift.

I think taking some general principles computer science classes on
programming languages, data structures, algorithms, etc. will help your
Perl programming as much as whatever language they're using for
instruction. Other  than that, I'd suggest that you pursue Perl learning
opportunities through mailing lists and peer groups like KC.PM. That will
bring you directly into contact with "real world" perl programmers.

If you haven't already, I would start at: http://learn.perl.org/. On the
right-hand column is a list of mailing lists for beginners. You might also
check out the master list at: http://lists.cpan.org. The beginners mailing
list archive is found at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/beginners%40perl.org/

I think the standard good citzen practice is to ask and learn from your
peers on those lists... supplemented primarily by purchasing and
working through the current editions of the more highly recommended
Perl books. Learning Perl, Intermediate Perl, Programming Perl. Once
you've got those 3 books under your belt, where you go next depends
greatly on what you are interested in doing. I'd also recommend
an oldie but goodie: Mastering Algorithms with Perl.

Back to the beginner mailing lists... Once your Perl skills have matured
to the point where you no longer need the list, stick around and return
the favor by helping to answer the new newbies' questions. At the same
time, start subscribing to other Perl related mailing lists in areas of
your interest and continue learning from your real-world perl peers.

[The rest of this email rapidly deteriorated into a "Why Perl?" rant]

I'm sure others can add to the list. But to my knowledge, Perl is used
most extensively in systems administration and web development. And to a
limited degree it has an established niche in Bio-informatics and
mathematics. In the "real world" of software development, Perl is often
relegated to banging out quick proto-types, munging data from legacy
systems, and providing the ducktape, chewing gum, and glue to tie
different systems together. I.e. the stuff that "better" languages are
often worse at.

In the end, programming languages are tools. And different tools are
appropriate to different problem domains. The thing that makes Perl
good at many problem domains is the philosophy behind it: laziness,
hubris and no grinding of philosophical axes.

What this translates into in practice is a very concise syntax, which
has the gall to steal the best ideas it can find in other languages
without forcing you to do things "the one true way". I.e., TIMTOWTDI:
There is more than one way to do it.

Perl also stands out from the pack in that it is a language that allows
novice programmers to solve their problems without having to understand
the whole language. I.e., you can baby speak in Perl.  While expert
programmers feel right at home too. It strives to make mundane tasks
simple, and impossible tasks possible.

When many "real world" programmers hear "Perl", they still think of
it in terms of Perl 4.0... i.e. shell scripting on steroids. Perl has grown up
considerably in the intervening years. The syntax is more consistent and
the semantics are richer. I.e., the stuff you used to use it for has
gotten easier, and if you care to dig deeper, you can now use it as an
effective tool for more problem domains.

Others will tell you that Perl is a write-only language. I.e., what one
programmer writes, no one else will be able to decipher. And extended
form of this is the complaint by some that Perl isn't appropriate for
large projects involving many developers. This is a fall out of TIMTOWTDI.

And the answer to that is that the developers need to agree on
best common practices, and use a tool like Perl::Critic or lint to help
enforce it. Other languages force bondage and discipline on the
programmer, whereas Perl allows you to opt-in and opt-out as desired.

Perl is fun. So while it hasn't always been the most often used tool in my
tool chest. It is one of my favorites.

cheers,

Garrett


From randall.munden at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 08:49:13 2006
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:49:13 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Question
In-Reply-To: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>
References: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1467780a0607140849l473c1c6n43c1972af31430f@mail.gmail.com>

I found taking C (not C++) courses way back when, I had many "ah ha!
_That's_ what they're doing in perl." moments.

On 7/13/06, jay <jyoung79 at kc.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just curious if anyone here could give me some advice on if there's
> any schools around here that have good Perl classes?  I've done a few
> Perl programs but not many (and I'm very, very thankful for this list
> and the many helpful people that helped me out when I got stuck).  I
> looked on-line today at a few schools (Penn Valley, ITT, DeVry,
> etc.).  None looked real promising.  I know JCCC has a Perl class but
> I'm not sure if it's what I'm looking for.
>
> I'd really like to find a school close by that teaches Perl
> programming in todays real world.  Most classes seem to just follow a
> book, which is helpful, but doesn't show me anything of what it's
> used for in todays business world.  There's a few other languages I'd
> like to learn later on as well...  like Python, PHP, etc. but don't
> know if there's a decent school around here that teaches these.
> Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts you all might have.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jay
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


-- 
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather

From stephenclouse at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 09:37:15 2006
From: stephenclouse at gmail.com (Stephen Clouse)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:37:15 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607140849220.21654-100000@goebel.ws>
References: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607140849220.21654-100000@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <5d0ee2170607140937k6813b36ay3956766164c56a4@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/14/06, C. Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws> wrote:
> Perl doesn't have the pedigree to make it popular in academic circles. I
> remember reading how Damian Conway's peers told him he'd ruin his academic
> career if he continued pursuing his interest in Perl. So while you might
> find the occassional good Perl course at a college, I think you'll usually
> find that Perl is given short shrift.

Agree.  Perl is not buzzword-compliant, so courses are in no^H^Hshort
supply.  What you see more of as far as coursework is concerned is
C/C++ (foundational languages, still very good and useful to learn),
Java (bleh), and *.NET (**bleh**).

I've even seen at least one junior college offering a PHP course now.
I cry for humanity.

> Others will tell you that Perl is a write-only language. I.e., what one
> programmer writes, no one else will be able to decipher. And extended
> form of this is the complaint by some that Perl isn't appropriate for
> large projects involving many developers. This is a fall out of TIMTOWTDI.

Such accusations are vile and odious lies of the bourgeoisie.  Be not
swayed by the Party line.

I have personally managed a project involving 6 developers and 750,000
lines of Perl code.  A quality OO design and instillment of best
practices with Perl will get you as far as (or even farther than) any
bondage-and-discipline language.  Mind you, there are some things to
like about B&D in C++, but RAD in Perl is fine also.

-- 
Stephen Clouse <stephenclouse at gmail.com>

From dnrhull at gmail.com  Sat Jul 15 20:56:06 2006
From: dnrhull at gmail.com (Dan Hull)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:56:06 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
Message-ID: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron which
require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me in the
right direction to accomplish this.

Thanks,

-- 
Dan Hull
eFax - 816.222.0803
dnrhull at gmail.com

Quality of life is a choice. It is
available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
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From ironicface at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 15 22:30:58 2006
From: ironicface at earthlink.net (Teal)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:30:58 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44B9CF12.50302@earthlink.net>

Dan Hull wrote:

> I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron which 
> require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me in 
> the right direction to accomplish this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Dan Hull
> eFax - 816.222.0803
> dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
> 
> Quality of life is a choice. It is
> available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> 


Are you saying you want the script to require a shell to get the initial 
settings before being handed to cron, or that it runs from cron and at 
that time opens a shell, and some user is then prompted to do something?

Teal
-- 
Five minutes of Silence,
Meditate. Breathe. Be Alive.


From eric at alliances.org  Sun Jul 16 06:14:29 2006
From: eric at alliances.org (Eric)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:29 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44BA3BB5.6040100@alliances.org>

You'll want to look at Expect - either the TCL extension or the Expect 
module for Perl.

http://search.cpan.org/~rgiersig/Expect-1.18/Expect.pod

http://expect.nist.gov/

Eric

Dan Hull wrote:
> I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron 
> which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone 
> point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- 
> Dan Hull
> eFax - 816.222.0803
> dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
>
> Quality of life is a choice. It is
> available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc


From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Sun Jul 16 10:26:28 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (Garrett Goebel)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:26:28 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for distribution
References: <44BA637A.9070902@pm.org>
Message-ID: <C4E39142-FA93-402A-B003-C458C86E767E@goebel.ws>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Mark Jason Dominus <mjd at plover.com>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: OSCON 2006 Lightning talks deadline extended
>
> There is still time to propose a lightning talk for OSCON 2006.  The
> deadline has been extended through Monday, 25 July.
>
>       Lightning Talks at the 2006 O'Reilly Open Source Convention
>
> Lightning talks are brief (5-minute) talks that focus on a single
> example, idea, project, or technique.  Lightning talks do not attempt
> to cover all aspects of their subject matter, but rather to present
> one facet of the idea clearly and succinctly.
>
> To submit a proposal for a lightning talk, please send your proposed
> title and an abstract of up to four sentences to:
>
>          osc-lt-2006-submit at plover.com
>
> For more complete information, visit:
>
>          http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2006/
>
> Thanks.


From dnrhull at gmail.com  Sun Jul 16 20:33:16 2006
From: dnrhull at gmail.com (Dan Hull)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:33:16 -0500
Subject: [Kc] kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16.1153076427.13227.kc@pm.org>
References: <mailman.16.1153076427.13227.kc@pm.org>
Message-ID: <ff5d1c260607162033j1d7f7be2r4915222e4ccfad8@mail.gmail.com>

What this scripts purpose is to sftp backup files and log files from one
server to another or to a disk array that is not
part of the originating servers file system.  It is to run from cron at
periodic times yet to be determined.

Any help is greatly appreciated!


Dan


On 7/16/06, kc-request at pm.org <kc-request at pm.org> wrote:
>
> Send kc mailing list submissions to
>        kc at pm.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        kc-request at pm.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        kc-owner at pm.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of kc digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Interactive Login in Perl (Dan Hull)
>   2. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Teal)
>   3. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Eric)
>   4. Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for distribution
>      (Garrett Goebel)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:56:06 -0500
> From: "Dan Hull" <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID:
>        <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron which
> require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me in
> the
> right direction to accomplish this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Dan Hull
> eFax - 816.222.0803
> dnrhull at gmail.com
>
> Quality of life is a choice. It is
> available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/attachments/20060715/43193c09/attachment.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:30:58 -0500
> From: Teal <ironicface at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <44B9CF12.50302 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Dan Hull wrote:
>
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron which
> > require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me in
> > the right direction to accomplish this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Dan Hull
> > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
> >
> > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> >
>
>
> Are you saying you want the script to require a shell to get the initial
> settings before being handed to cron, or that it runs from cron and at
> that time opens a shell, and some user is then prompted to do something?
>
> Teal
> --
> Five minutes of Silence,
> Meditate. Breathe. Be Alive.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:29 -0500
> From: Eric <eric at alliances.org>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: Dan Hull <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> Cc: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <44BA3BB5.6040100 at alliances.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> You'll want to look at Expect - either the TCL extension or the Expect
> module for Perl.
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~rgiersig/Expect-1.18/Expect.pod
>
> http://expect.nist.gov/
>
> Eric
>
> Dan Hull wrote:
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Dan Hull
> > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
> >
> > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kc mailing list
> > kc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:26:28 -0500
> From: Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws>
> Subject: [Kc] Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for
>        distribution
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <C4E39142-FA93-402A-B003-C458C86E767E at goebel.ws>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Mark Jason Dominus <mjd at plover.com>
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Subject: OSCON 2006 Lightning talks deadline extended
> >
> > There is still time to propose a lightning talk for OSCON 2006.  The
> > deadline has been extended through Monday, 25 July.
> >
> >       Lightning Talks at the 2006 O'Reilly Open Source Convention
> >
> > Lightning talks are brief (5-minute) talks that focus on a single
> > example, idea, project, or technique.  Lightning talks do not attempt
> > to cover all aspects of their subject matter, but rather to present
> > one facet of the idea clearly and succinctly.
> >
> > To submit a proposal for a lightning talk, please send your proposed
> > title and an abstract of up to four sentences to:
> >
> >          osc-lt-2006-submit at plover.com
> >
> > For more complete information, visit:
> >
> >          http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2006/
> >
> > Thanks.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
> End of kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11
> **********************************
>



-- 
Dan Hull
eFax - 816.222.0803
dnrhull at gmail.com

Quality of life is a choice. It is
available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
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From jay at jays.net  Sun Jul 16 20:55:15 2006
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Question
In-Reply-To: <5d0ee2170607140937k6813b36ay3956766164c56a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5525D877-7F03-4F27-AEF6-D64D5E3E9ED0@kc.rr.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0607140849220.21654-100000@goebel.ws>
	<5d0ee2170607140937k6813b36ay3956766164c56a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44BB0A23.1070309@jays.net>

[Original thread starts here http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/2006-July/000501.html]

Stephen Clouse wrote:
>> Others will tell you that Perl is a write-only language. I.e., what one
>> programmer writes, no one else will be able to decipher. And extended
>> form of this is the complaint by some that Perl isn't appropriate for
>> large projects involving many developers. This is a fall out of TIMTOWTDI.
> 
> Such accusations are vile and odious lies of the bourgeoisie.  Be not
> swayed by the Party line.
> 
> I have personally managed a project involving 6 developers and 750,000
> lines of Perl code.  A quality OO design and instillment of best
> practices with Perl will get you as far as (or even farther than) any
> bondage-and-discipline language.  Mind you, there are some things to
> like about B&D in C++, but RAD in Perl is fine also.

What's RAD? (Rapid Application Development?)

750,000 lines? Wow. We "only" have 42,000 lines. As far as I know that makes us the biggest Perl shop in Omaha. ~3 programmers are mucking with the code at any one time. We seem to have the same level of cooperative coder angst in Perl, VB.NET, and Informix 4GL, so I haven't seen Perl as substantively different from any other language for scalability. Good documentation is always key. 

I keep thinking autodiscovery in Visual Studio (and Eclipse?) should be a huge time saver, but I always seem to struggle w/ the .NET framework anyway not knowing what the methods I just autodiscovered actually do. Seems just as easy to use the Perl debugger and perldoc.

I also keep thinking I need to tackle some huge stuff in Java/.NET/Python/Ruby just for personal learning, but I never seem to get around to it. Don't know that I want to set myself up to compete w/ Indian and Chinese programmer markets anyway. :)

j


From scottk at uclick.com  Mon Jul 17 06:33:41 2006
From: scottk at uclick.com (Scott Kahler)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:33:41 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1153143221.2506.2.camel@walkabout>

Maybe you are looking for Net::SSH ?

http://search.cpan.org/~ivan/Net-SSH-0.08/SSH.pm




On Sat, 2006-07-15 at 22:56 -0500, Dan Hull wrote:

> I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Dan Hull
> eFax - 816.222.0803
> dnrhull at gmail.com
> 
> Quality of life is a choice. It is
> available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc


Scott Kahler
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Unix Nerd
http://www.uclick.com
816-210-8884
scottk at uclick.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I don't have a big ego...
I'm way too cool for that !!!

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From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Mon Jul 17 09:20:08 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (Garrett Goebel)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:20:08 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A@goebel.ws>

On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Dan Hull wrote:

> I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron  
> which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone  
> point me in the right direction to accomplish this.

require interactive ssh?

You mean setting up "login-less" public key authentication is not an  
option? A google search on "openssh public key authentication" will  
turn up documentation like the following:
     http://cfm.gs.washington.edu/security/ssh/client-pkauth/

FYI: Net::SSH won't help with interactive logins. Using pre- 
configured RSA or DSA keys is a prerequisite. It's in the Net::SSH  
docs in the FAQ:
     http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-SSH/ 
SSH.pm#FREQUENTLY_ASKED_QUESTIONS


regular unix login?

If by that you mean execute something locally using different  
credentials... you might try:
     http://search.cpan.org/dist/Sudo/lib/Sudo.pm

I've never used it. But it might do what you need.

cheers,

Garrett

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Jul 17 09:32:56 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:32:56 -0700
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <1153143221.2506.2.camel@walkabout>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
	<1153143221.2506.2.camel@walkabout>
Message-ID: <200607170932.56979.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Scott Kahler
# on Monday 17 July 2006 06:33 am:

>Maybe you are looking for Net::SSH ?

  =head1 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

  Q: How do you supply a password to connect with ssh within a perl
  script using the Net::SSH module?

  A: You don't.  Use RSA or DSA keys.  See the ssh-keygen(1) manpage.

The command-line client (and rsync and svn and ...) is the same way.  If 
you need to create ssh connections in batch jobs, you *must* have a 
password-less key.

If you need to be paranoid, setup ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the target 
host with an explicit set of allowed commands:

(all one line)
  no-port-forwarding,no-X11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,no-pty,
  command="/$some_path/commands_allowed",from="$host"
  ssh-dss $public_key$user@$host

The command= parameter actually means "run only this command" (including 
parameters.)  The commands_allowed script should then check 
$ENV{SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND} and exec that if it decides to allow it.

--Eric
-- 
A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized 
guiltily.
--Product of Artificial Intelligence
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scottk at uclick.com  Mon Jul 17 10:33:02 2006
From: scottk at uclick.com (Scott Kahler)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:33:02 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A@goebel.ws>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
	<BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <1153157583.2506.16.camel@walkabout>

Actually I'm using it to get past and interactive prompt and execute a
command


  my $ssh = Net::SSH::Perl->new($server);
  $ssh->login('scoota','password') || "SSH LOGIN ERROR: $server $!";

  my $str;
  $ssh->register_handler("stdout", sub {
    my($channel, $buffer) = @_;
    $str = $buffer->bytes;
    }  );
  my $cmd = 'df -hP -x smbfs';
  $ssh->cmd($cmd);
  my @lines = split(/\n/,$str);



It's not pretty but it gets the job done.



On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 11:20 -0500, Garrett Goebel wrote:
> On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Dan Hull wrote:
> 
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron  
> > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone  
> > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> 
> require interactive ssh?
> 
> You mean setting up "login-less" public key authentication is not an  
> option? A google search on "openssh public key authentication" will  
> turn up documentation like the following:
>      http://cfm.gs.washington.edu/security/ssh/client-pkauth/
> 
> FYI: Net::SSH won't help with interactive logins. Using pre- 
> configured RSA or DSA keys is a prerequisite. It's in the Net::SSH  
> docs in the FAQ:
>      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-SSH/ 
> SSH.pm#FREQUENTLY_ASKED_QUESTIONS
> 
> 
> regular unix login?
> 
> If by that you mean execute something locally using different  
> credentials... you might try:
>      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Sudo/lib/Sudo.pm
> 
> I've never used it. But it might do what you need.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc

Scott Kahler
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Programmer
http://www.uclick.com
816-210-8884
scottk at uclick.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people
very
angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. 



From scottk at uclick.com  Mon Jul 17 10:35:50 2006
From: scottk at uclick.com (Scott Kahler)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:35:50 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A@goebel.ws>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
	<BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <1153157750.2506.19.camel@walkabout>

I think I found what the problem was.. it's actually Net::SSH::Perl I'm
using.. apologies all around


On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 11:20 -0500, Garrett Goebel wrote:
> On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Dan Hull wrote:
> 
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron  
> > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone  
> > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> 
> require interactive ssh?
> 
> You mean setting up "login-less" public key authentication is not an  
> option? A google search on "openssh public key authentication" will  
> turn up documentation like the following:
>      http://cfm.gs.washington.edu/security/ssh/client-pkauth/
> 
> FYI: Net::SSH won't help with interactive logins. Using pre- 
> configured RSA or DSA keys is a prerequisite. It's in the Net::SSH  
> docs in the FAQ:
>      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-SSH/ 
> SSH.pm#FREQUENTLY_ASKED_QUESTIONS
> 
> 
> regular unix login?
> 
> If by that you mean execute something locally using different  
> credentials... you might try:
>      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Sudo/lib/Sudo.pm
> 
> I've never used it. But it might do what you need.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc

Scott Kahler
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
DB Hacker
http://www.uclick.com
816-210-8884
scottk at uclick.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

You have to adhere to a philosophy that the life unexamined is not worth
living, because otherwise you're just living from day to day and you
don't
have any real sense of yourself or where you are. -Tom Hanks



From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Mon Jul 17 14:31:36 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (Garrett Goebel)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:31:36 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
In-Reply-To: <1153157750.2506.19.camel@walkabout>
References: <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec@mail.gmail.com>
	<BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A@goebel.ws>
	<1153157750.2506.19.camel@walkabout>
Message-ID: <4B232DF7-F983-45E1-B01F-E34981EE5372@goebel.ws>

Well that's very cool ;)

On Jul 17, 2006, at 12:35 PM, Scott Kahler wrote:

> I think I found what the problem was.. it's actually Net::SSH::Perl  
> I'm
> using.. apologies all around
>
>
> On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 11:20 -0500, Garrett Goebel wrote:
>> On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Dan Hull wrote:
>>
>>> I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
>>> which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
>>> point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
>>
>> require interactive ssh?
>>
>> You mean setting up "login-less" public key authentication is not an
>> option? A google search on "openssh public key authentication" will
>> turn up documentation like the following:
>>      http://cfm.gs.washington.edu/security/ssh/client-pkauth/
>>
>> FYI: Net::SSH won't help with interactive logins. Using pre-
>> configured RSA or DSA keys is a prerequisite. It's in the Net::SSH
>> docs in the FAQ:
>>      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-SSH/
>> SSH.pm#FREQUENTLY_ASKED_QUESTIONS
>>
>>
>> regular unix login?
>>
>> If by that you mean execute something locally using different
>> credentials... you might try:
>>      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Sudo/lib/Sudo.pm
>>
>> I've never used it. But it might do what you need.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Garrett
>> _______________________________________________
>> kc mailing list
>> kc at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
> Scott Kahler
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> DB Hacker
> http://www.uclick.com
> 816-210-8884
> scottk at uclick.com
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> You have to adhere to a philosophy that the life unexamined is not  
> worth
> living, because otherwise you're just living from day to day and you
> don't
> have any real sense of yourself or where you are. -Tom Hanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


From dnrhull at gmail.com  Mon Jul 17 21:08:01 2006
From: dnrhull at gmail.com (Dan Hull)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:08:01 -0500
Subject: [Kc] kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3370.1153154068.18728.kc@pm.org>
References: <mailman.3370.1153154068.18728.kc@pm.org>
Message-ID: <ff5d1c260607172108v7dec243dgce7088114a3ce695@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the input guys.  It gives me something to go on.  I
appreciate it!

Dan Hull


On 7/17/06, kc-request at pm.org <kc-request at pm.org> wrote:
>
> Send kc mailing list submissions to
>        kc at pm.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        kc-request at pm.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        kc-owner at pm.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of kc digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11 (Dan Hull)
>   2. Re: Question (Jay Hannah)
>   3. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Scott Kahler)
>   4. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Garrett Goebel)
>   5. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Eric Wilhelm)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:33:16 -0500
> From: "Dan Hull" <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID:
>        <ff5d1c260607162033j1d7f7be2r4915222e4ccfad8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> What this scripts purpose is to sftp backup files and log files from one
> server to another or to a disk array that is not
> part of the originating servers file system.  It is to run from cron at
> periodic times yet to be determined.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated!
>
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 7/16/06, kc-request at pm.org <kc-request at pm.org> wrote:
> >
> > Send kc mailing list submissions to
> >        kc at pm.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >        http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >        kc-request at pm.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        kc-owner at pm.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of kc digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Interactive Login in Perl (Dan Hull)
> >   2. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Teal)
> >   3. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Eric)
> >   4. Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for distribution
> >      (Garrett Goebel)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:56:06 -0500
> > From: "Dan Hull" <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> > To: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron which
> > require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me in
> > the
> > right direction to accomplish this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Dan Hull
> > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > dnrhull at gmail.com
> >
> > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/attachments/20060715/43193c09/attachment.htm
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:30:58 -0500
> > From: Teal <ironicface at earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> > To: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID: <44B9CF12.50302 at earthlink.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > Dan Hull wrote:
> >
> > > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> which
> > > require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me
> in
> > > the right direction to accomplish this.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan Hull
> > > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > > dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Are you saying you want the script to require a shell to get the initial
> > settings before being handed to cron, or that it runs from cron and at
> > that time opens a shell, and some user is then prompted to do something?
> >
> > Teal
> > --
> > Five minutes of Silence,
> > Meditate. Breathe. Be Alive.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:29 -0500
> > From: Eric <eric at alliances.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> > To: Dan Hull <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > Cc: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID: <44BA3BB5.6040100 at alliances.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > You'll want to look at Expect - either the TCL extension or the Expect
> > module for Perl.
> >
> > http://search.cpan.org/~rgiersig/Expect-1.18/Expect.pod
> >
> > http://expect.nist.gov/
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > Dan Hull wrote:
> > > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> > > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> > > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan Hull
> > > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > > dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kc mailing list
> > > kc at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:26:28 -0500
> > From: Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws>
> > Subject: [Kc] Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for
> >        distribution
> > To: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID: <C4E39142-FA93-402A-B003-C458C86E767E at goebel.ws>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: Mark Jason Dominus <mjd at plover.com>
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Subject: OSCON 2006 Lightning talks deadline extended
> > >
> > > There is still time to propose a lightning talk for OSCON 2006.  The
> > > deadline has been extended through Monday, 25 July.
> > >
> > >       Lightning Talks at the 2006 O'Reilly Open Source Convention
> > >
> > > Lightning talks are brief (5-minute) talks that focus on a single
> > > example, idea, project, or technique.  Lightning talks do not attempt
> > > to cover all aspects of their subject matter, but rather to present
> > > one facet of the idea clearly and succinctly.
> > >
> > > To submit a proposal for a lightning talk, please send your proposed
> > > title and an abstract of up to four sentences to:
> > >
> > >          osc-lt-2006-submit at plover.com
> > >
> > > For more complete information, visit:
> > >
> > >          http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2006/
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kc mailing list
> > kc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> >
> > End of kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11
> > **********************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Hull
> eFax - 816.222.0803
> dnrhull at gmail.com
>
> Quality of life is a choice. It is
> available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/attachments/20060716/8e2cb86e/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:55:15 -0500
> From: Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Question
> To: kc at pm.org, omaha-pm at pm.org
> Message-ID: <44BB0A23.1070309 at jays.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> [Original thread starts here
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/2006-July/000501.html]
>
> Stephen Clouse wrote:
> >> Others will tell you that Perl is a write-only language. I.e., what one
> >> programmer writes, no one else will be able to decipher. And extended
> >> form of this is the complaint by some that Perl isn't appropriate for
> >> large projects involving many developers. This is a fall out of
> TIMTOWTDI.
> >
> > Such accusations are vile and odious lies of the bourgeoisie.  Be not
> > swayed by the Party line.
> >
> > I have personally managed a project involving 6 developers and 750,000
> > lines of Perl code.  A quality OO design and instillment of best
> > practices with Perl will get you as far as (or even farther than) any
> > bondage-and-discipline language.  Mind you, there are some things to
> > like about B&D in C++, but RAD in Perl is fine also.
>
> What's RAD? (Rapid Application Development?)
>
> 750,000 lines? Wow. We "only" have 42,000 lines. As far as I know that
> makes us the biggest Perl shop in Omaha. ~3 programmers are mucking with the
> code at any one time. We seem to have the same level of cooperative coder
> angst in Perl, VB.NET, and Informix 4GL, so I haven't seen Perl as
> substantively different from any other language for scalability. Good
> documentation is always key.
>
> I keep thinking autodiscovery in Visual Studio (and Eclipse?) should be a
> huge time saver, but I always seem to struggle w/ the .NET framework anyway
> not knowing what the methods I just autodiscovered actually do. Seems just
> as easy to use the Perl debugger and perldoc.
>
> I also keep thinking I need to tackle some huge stuff in
> Java/.NET/Python/Ruby just for personal learning, but I never seem to get
> around to it. Don't know that I want to set myself up to compete w/ Indian
> and Chinese programmer markets anyway. :)
>
> j
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:33:41 -0500
> From: Scott Kahler <scottk at uclick.com>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <1153143221.2506.2.camel at walkabout>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Maybe you are looking for Net::SSH ?
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~ivan/Net-SSH-0.08/SSH.pm
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2006-07-15 at 22:56 -0500, Dan Hull wrote:
>
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Dan Hull
> > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > dnrhull at gmail.com
> >
> > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kc mailing list
> > kc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
>
> Scott Kahler
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Unix Nerd
> http://www.uclick.com
> 816-210-8884
> scottk at uclick.com
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> I don't have a big ego...
> I'm way too cool for that !!!
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/attachments/20060717/1554aef5/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:20:08 -0500
> From: Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: Dan Hull <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> Cc: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A at goebel.ws>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Dan Hull wrote:
>
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
>
> require interactive ssh?
>
> You mean setting up "login-less" public key authentication is not an
> option? A google search on "openssh public key authentication" will
> turn up documentation like the following:
>     http://cfm.gs.washington.edu/security/ssh/client-pkauth/
>
> FYI: Net::SSH won't help with interactive logins. Using pre-
> configured RSA or DSA keys is a prerequisite. It's in the Net::SSH
> docs in the FAQ:
>     http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-SSH/
> SSH.pm#FREQUENTLY_ASKED_QUESTIONS
>
>
> regular unix login?
>
> If by that you mean execute something locally using different
> credentials... you might try:
>     http://search.cpan.org/dist/Sudo/lib/Sudo.pm
>
> I've never used it. But it might do what you need.
>
> cheers,
>
> Garrett
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:32:56 -0700
> From: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <200607170932.56979.ewilhelm at cpan.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> # from Scott Kahler
> # on Monday 17 July 2006 06:33 am:
>
> >Maybe you are looking for Net::SSH ?
>
> =head1 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
>
> Q: How do you supply a password to connect with ssh within a perl
> script using the Net::SSH module?
>
> A: You don't.  Use RSA or DSA keys.  See the ssh-keygen(1) manpage.
>
> The command-line client (and rsync and svn and ...) is the same way.  If
> you need to create ssh connections in batch jobs, you *must* have a
> password-less key.
>
> If you need to be paranoid, setup ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the target
> host with an explicit set of allowed commands:
>
> (all one line)
> no-port-forwarding,no-X11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,no-pty,
> command="/$some_path/commands_allowed",from="$host"
> ssh-dss $public_key$user@$host
>
> The command= parameter actually means "run only this command" (including
> parameters.)  The commands_allowed script should then check
> $ENV{SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND} and exec that if it decides to allow it.
>
> --Eric
> --
> A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized
> guiltily.
> --Product of Artificial Intelligence
> ---------------------------------------------------
>    http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
> End of kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 12
> **********************************
>



-- 
Dan Hull
eFax - 816.222.0803
dnrhull at gmail.com

Quality of life is a choice. It is
available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
-------------- next part --------------
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From dnrhull at gmail.com  Mon Jul 17 21:08:01 2006
From: dnrhull at gmail.com (Dan Hull)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:08:01 -0500
Subject: [Kc] kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3370.1153154068.18728.kc@pm.org>
References: <mailman.3370.1153154068.18728.kc@pm.org>
Message-ID: <ff5d1c260607172108v7dec243dgce7088114a3ce695@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the input guys.  It gives me something to go on.  I
appreciate it!

Dan Hull


On 7/17/06, kc-request at pm.org <kc-request at pm.org> wrote:
>
> Send kc mailing list submissions to
>        kc at pm.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        kc-request at pm.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        kc-owner at pm.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of kc digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11 (Dan Hull)
>   2. Re: Question (Jay Hannah)
>   3. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Scott Kahler)
>   4. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Garrett Goebel)
>   5. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Eric Wilhelm)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:33:16 -0500
> From: "Dan Hull" <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID:
>        <ff5d1c260607162033j1d7f7be2r4915222e4ccfad8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> What this scripts purpose is to sftp backup files and log files from one
> server to another or to a disk array that is not
> part of the originating servers file system.  It is to run from cron at
> periodic times yet to be determined.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated!
>
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 7/16/06, kc-request at pm.org <kc-request at pm.org> wrote:
> >
> > Send kc mailing list submissions to
> >        kc at pm.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >        http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >        kc-request at pm.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        kc-owner at pm.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of kc digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Interactive Login in Perl (Dan Hull)
> >   2. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Teal)
> >   3. Re: Interactive Login in Perl (Eric)
> >   4. Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for distribution
> >      (Garrett Goebel)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:56:06 -0500
> > From: "Dan Hull" <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> > To: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        <ff5d1c260607152056x6c7f9aedmf9750e4391837ec at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron which
> > require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me in
> > the
> > right direction to accomplish this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Dan Hull
> > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > dnrhull at gmail.com
> >
> > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/attachments/20060715/43193c09/attachment.htm
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:30:58 -0500
> > From: Teal <ironicface at earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> > To: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID: <44B9CF12.50302 at earthlink.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > Dan Hull wrote:
> >
> > > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> which
> > > require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone point me
> in
> > > the right direction to accomplish this.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan Hull
> > > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > > dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Are you saying you want the script to require a shell to get the initial
> > settings before being handed to cron, or that it runs from cron and at
> > that time opens a shell, and some user is then prompted to do something?
> >
> > Teal
> > --
> > Five minutes of Silence,
> > Meditate. Breathe. Be Alive.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:29 -0500
> > From: Eric <eric at alliances.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> > To: Dan Hull <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > Cc: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID: <44BA3BB5.6040100 at alliances.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > You'll want to look at Expect - either the TCL extension or the Expect
> > module for Perl.
> >
> > http://search.cpan.org/~rgiersig/Expect-1.18/Expect.pod
> >
> > http://expect.nist.gov/
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > Dan Hull wrote:
> > > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> > > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> > > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan Hull
> > > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > > dnrhull at gmail.com <mailto:dnrhull at gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kc mailing list
> > > kc at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:26:28 -0500
> > From: Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws>
> > Subject: [Kc] Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for
> >        distribution
> > To: kc at pm.org
> > Message-ID: <C4E39142-FA93-402A-B003-C458C86E767E at goebel.ws>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: Mark Jason Dominus <mjd at plover.com>
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Subject: OSCON 2006 Lightning talks deadline extended
> > >
> > > There is still time to propose a lightning talk for OSCON 2006.  The
> > > deadline has been extended through Monday, 25 July.
> > >
> > >       Lightning Talks at the 2006 O'Reilly Open Source Convention
> > >
> > > Lightning talks are brief (5-minute) talks that focus on a single
> > > example, idea, project, or technique.  Lightning talks do not attempt
> > > to cover all aspects of their subject matter, but rather to present
> > > one facet of the idea clearly and succinctly.
> > >
> > > To submit a proposal for a lightning talk, please send your proposed
> > > title and an abstract of up to four sentences to:
> > >
> > >          osc-lt-2006-submit at plover.com
> > >
> > > For more complete information, visit:
> > >
> > >          http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2006/
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kc mailing list
> > kc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
> >
> > End of kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 11
> > **********************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Hull
> eFax - 816.222.0803
> dnrhull at gmail.com
>
> Quality of life is a choice. It is
> available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/attachments/20060716/8e2cb86e/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:55:15 -0500
> From: Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Question
> To: kc at pm.org, omaha-pm at pm.org
> Message-ID: <44BB0A23.1070309 at jays.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> [Original thread starts here
> http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kc/2006-July/000501.html]
>
> Stephen Clouse wrote:
> >> Others will tell you that Perl is a write-only language. I.e., what one
> >> programmer writes, no one else will be able to decipher. And extended
> >> form of this is the complaint by some that Perl isn't appropriate for
> >> large projects involving many developers. This is a fall out of
> TIMTOWTDI.
> >
> > Such accusations are vile and odious lies of the bourgeoisie.  Be not
> > swayed by the Party line.
> >
> > I have personally managed a project involving 6 developers and 750,000
> > lines of Perl code.  A quality OO design and instillment of best
> > practices with Perl will get you as far as (or even farther than) any
> > bondage-and-discipline language.  Mind you, there are some things to
> > like about B&D in C++, but RAD in Perl is fine also.
>
> What's RAD? (Rapid Application Development?)
>
> 750,000 lines? Wow. We "only" have 42,000 lines. As far as I know that
> makes us the biggest Perl shop in Omaha. ~3 programmers are mucking with the
> code at any one time. We seem to have the same level of cooperative coder
> angst in Perl, VB.NET, and Informix 4GL, so I haven't seen Perl as
> substantively different from any other language for scalability. Good
> documentation is always key.
>
> I keep thinking autodiscovery in Visual Studio (and Eclipse?) should be a
> huge time saver, but I always seem to struggle w/ the .NET framework anyway
> not knowing what the methods I just autodiscovered actually do. Seems just
> as easy to use the Perl debugger and perldoc.
>
> I also keep thinking I need to tackle some huge stuff in
> Java/.NET/Python/Ruby just for personal learning, but I never seem to get
> around to it. Don't know that I want to set myself up to compete w/ Indian
> and Chinese programmer markets anyway. :)
>
> j
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:33:41 -0500
> From: Scott Kahler <scottk at uclick.com>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <1153143221.2506.2.camel at walkabout>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Maybe you are looking for Net::SSH ?
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~ivan/Net-SSH-0.08/SSH.pm
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2006-07-15 at 22:56 -0500, Dan Hull wrote:
>
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Dan Hull
> > eFax - 816.222.0803
> > dnrhull at gmail.com
> >
> > Quality of life is a choice. It is
> > available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kc mailing list
> > kc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
>
> Scott Kahler
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Unix Nerd
> http://www.uclick.com
> 816-210-8884
> scottk at uclick.com
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> I don't have a big ego...
> I'm way too cool for that !!!
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:20:08 -0500
> From: Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: Dan Hull <dnrhull at gmail.com>
> Cc: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <BF63C0DF-C125-4D85-B823-ED8B9B3CDE5A at goebel.ws>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Dan Hull wrote:
>
> > I am trying to write some perl scripts which will be run from Cron
> > which require interactive ssh or regular unix login.  Can someone
> > point me in the right direction to accomplish this.
>
> require interactive ssh?
>
> You mean setting up "login-less" public key authentication is not an
> option? A google search on "openssh public key authentication" will
> turn up documentation like the following:
>     http://cfm.gs.washington.edu/security/ssh/client-pkauth/
>
> FYI: Net::SSH won't help with interactive logins. Using pre-
> configured RSA or DSA keys is a prerequisite. It's in the Net::SSH
> docs in the FAQ:
>     http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-SSH/
> SSH.pm#FREQUENTLY_ASKED_QUESTIONS
>
>
> regular unix login?
>
> If by that you mean execute something locally using different
> credentials... you might try:
>     http://search.cpan.org/dist/Sudo/lib/Sudo.pm
>
> I've never used it. But it might do what you need.
>
> cheers,
>
> Garrett
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:32:56 -0700
> From: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Kc] Interactive Login in Perl
> To: kc at pm.org
> Message-ID: <200607170932.56979.ewilhelm at cpan.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> # from Scott Kahler
> # on Monday 17 July 2006 06:33 am:
>
> >Maybe you are looking for Net::SSH ?
>
> =head1 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
>
> Q: How do you supply a password to connect with ssh within a perl
> script using the Net::SSH module?
>
> A: You don't.  Use RSA or DSA keys.  See the ssh-keygen(1) manpage.
>
> The command-line client (and rsync and svn and ...) is the same way.  If
> you need to create ssh connections in batch jobs, you *must* have a
> password-less key.
>
> If you need to be paranoid, setup ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the target
> host with an explicit set of allowed commands:
>
> (all one line)
> no-port-forwarding,no-X11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,no-pty,
> command="/$some_path/commands_allowed",from="$host"
> ssh-dss $public_key$user@$host
>
> The command= parameter actually means "run only this command" (including
> parameters.)  The commands_allowed script should then check
> $ENV{SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND} and exec that if it decides to allow it.
>
> --Eric
> --
> A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized
> guiltily.
> --Product of Artificial Intelligence
> ---------------------------------------------------
>    http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>
> End of kc Digest, Vol 33, Issue 12
> **********************************
>



-- 
Dan Hull
eFax - 816.222.0803
dnrhull at gmail.com

Quality of life is a choice. It is
available to everyone in any circumstance, whether good or bad.
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From JYOUNG79 at kc.rr.com  Tue Jul 18 12:40:33 2006
From: JYOUNG79 at kc.rr.com (JYOUNG79 at kc.rr.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:40:33 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Question
Message-ID: <c5adde0d2b254.2b254c5adde0d@rdc-kc.rr.com>

Stephen Clouse wrote:
>> Others will tell you that Perl is a write-only language. I.e., what 
one
>> programmer writes, no one else will be able to decipher. And 
extended
>> form of this is the complaint by some that Perl isn't appropriate 
for
>> large projects involving many developers. This is a fall out of 
TIMTOWTDI.
> 
> Such accusations are vile and odious lies of the bourgeoisie.  Be not
> swayed by the Party line.

You guys are Awesome!!  :-)

Hey, thanks so much for the detailed emails.  I really appreciate you 
not only sharing your thoughts but also telling me how Perl is used in 
todays world.

I'll definitely look into those books, websites and lists you shared.

I'll be interested to know where you all decide to start meeting in the 
future.  I was at one of your meetings a few years back at Planet Sub.  
I thought everyone was extremely nice and helpful.  My only problem was 
I had a hard time keeping up with the conversation just because of my 
lack of Perl knowledge.
  I mainly program in AppleScript, JavaScript (for Adobe apps) and VBA 
(for Excel) on the Mac.  We have a little bit of Perl code (written by 
an outside programmer) in our department that edits PostScript files 
but I never have to work with it since it runs so smoothly.  I have 
also taken a C++ class but found that language incredibly difficult to 
grasp.  I'm hoping to someday have a better understanding of Perl.  It 
sounds so incredibly useful as well as powerful.

Again, I appreciate your responses and hope to hear more responses from 
others about what they think of Perl and how they use it.  I'll also 
try to get to a future meeting with you all.

Thanks again!

Jay

From davidnicol at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 16:14:07 2006
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:14:07 -0500
Subject: [Kc] forwarding because geeks are scary tough
Message-ID: <934f64a20607181614l38cf2349ib11c21fe8b949b54@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Subject: actors needed for fight film (filmed locally)



 Please feel free to forward widely:

  EXTRAS NEEDED FOR LOCAL FILM!

To all interested in being in "Rigged":

Thanks to everyone for your interest in this film. We are looking for
extras to be involved in the making of an underground boxing film,
think "Million Dollar Baby" meets "Fight Club." This is your chance to
be a part of a major motion picture being shot here in KC!

Here's the schedule for all four days:

Date: Saturday July 15th
Location: underneath the 7th street bridge between Southwest Blvd and
I-35 in Kansas City, KS (RSVP for directions)
Parking: on location, but dirt roads or off-road
Time: 08:30 PM
The Scene: Underground boxing match between "Henry the Hacksaw" and a
female boxer, "Kid Vixen" (our hero)
 Wardrobe: Dress rough and tough. Dark clothes and leather are great,
but t-shirts and jeans can work as well. No logos.

Date: Thursday July 20h AND Friday July 21st
Location: Clarion Hotel
9103 E. 39th Street
Kansas City, MO, 64133
Parking: on location
Time: 06:00 PM
The Scene: The FINAL BATTLE between our hero, "Kid Vixen", and the
villain "Richter" ... an epic boxing match
Wardrobe: Dress can be casual, or classy and upscale ... this is a
legal boxing match this time. Dark clothes are great, but suits and
ties work as well. No logos.
Also: G-Love from the band G-Love & Special Sauce will be appearing in
the scene Friday night!

Date: Saturday July 22nd
Location: parking lot at intersection of 11th St and Mulberry
in the West Bottoms in Kansas City, MO
Parking: on location
Time: 08:30 PM
 The Scene: An illegal street race
Wardrobe: Dress rough and tough. Dark clothes and leather are great,
but t-shirts and jeans can work as well. No logos.

If you can only come one of the four nights, please come Friday the
21st ... this is the biggest scene in the movie.


I'll try to answer all other questions here:

- What will extras be doing? -- Each of these scenes takes place at an
illegal boxing match (or street race). Extras are playing attendees at
these events. They need to be excitedly watching the events in
question. Energy is the most important thing.
- Can under 18 attend? -- We're looking for crowd members attending
underground boxing matches, which means children are unfortunately
out. Teenagers that look older are welcome, however. Parents, keep in
mind that this is an R-rated film with adult language, themes, and
violence.
- Is there any pay? -- "Rigged" is an independent film, and much of
the cast and crew on "Rigged" are working on a volunteer basis. Extras
are as well.
- Can I bring friends? -- Absolutely!!! We need all the help we can
get to make these scenes as exciting as possible. Tell everyone you
know.
- What if Im late? No problem! Any time you have to make it is much
appreciated!

If you are available any of these days, please write
RiggedExtras at yahoo.com with RSVP and the date(s) in the subject line
or message. And feel free to write back with any questions not covered
here, or call at 785-979-3789.

Thanks!
- Stephen Deaver
UPM, "Rigged"

From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul 20 17:22:58 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:22:58 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607201722l1a18c8dbg8e74e8e658c3c744@mail.gmail.com>

So I was need of a program that read in information from a file
(comments + list of hostname/IPs) and spew out a batch file. Needless
to say I used Perl, used some Regexp for the first time outside of the
book I am reading. Though I didn't get it right the first time after
some debugging and thought I got it working. All the batch file does
is (call psshutdown.exe sysinterals program) try to shutdown the list
of hostname/IPs that was read from the input file.

Either way it was neat to create something other than exercises.

From jay at jays.net  Fri Jul 21 05:20:06 2006
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:20:06 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607201722l1a18c8dbg8e74e8e658c3c744@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607201722l1a18c8dbg8e74e8e658c3c744@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44C0C676.9040303@jays.net>

djgoku wrote:
> So I was need of a program that read in information from a file
> (comments + list of hostname/IPs) and spew out a batch file. Needless
> to say I used Perl, used some Regexp for the first time outside of the
> book I am reading. Though I didn't get it right the first time after
> some debugging and thought I got it working. All the batch file does
> is (call psshutdown.exe sysinterals program) try to shutdown the list
> of hostname/IPs that was read from the input file.
> 
> Either way it was neat to create something other than exercises.

Congrats! Only 3 million more lines of code to go. :)

j


From davidnicol at gmail.com  Fri Jul 21 09:57:52 2006
From: davidnicol at gmail.com (David Nicol)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:52 -0500
Subject: [Kc] list etiquette
Message-ID: <934f64a20607210957t2a7a2524q6171fec4b7972643@mail.gmail.com>

Let's add a "list etiquette" section to our web pages.  Not that we
want to maintain
some kind of discipline WRT top/bottom posting and me-toos, but a
caution against
including an entire digest in reply, when someone is subscribed to the
digest feed,
might be appropriate.

Someone did this recently on kc at mail.pm.org and I apparently failed to
be sufficiently
gentle in pointing out in off-list communications that including an
entire digest is bad form.

The forum is now open for the topic of list etiquette nits :)

-- 
David L Nicol
you only get one stone per turn

From djgoku at gmail.com  Fri Jul 21 11:25:38 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:25:38 -0500
Subject: [Kc] list etiquette
In-Reply-To: <934f64a20607210957t2a7a2524q6171fec4b7972643@mail.gmail.com>
References: <934f64a20607210957t2a7a2524q6171fec4b7972643@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607211125ka06ba2aw1bef05cd1e41d5c6@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/21/06, David Nicol <davidnicol at gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's add a "list etiquette" section to our web pages.  Not that we
> want to maintain
> some kind of discipline WRT top/bottom posting and me-toos, but a
> caution against
> including an entire digest in reply, when someone is subscribed to the
> digest feed,
> might be appropriate.
>
> Someone did this recently on kc at mail.pm.org and I apparently failed to
> be sufficiently
> gentle in pointing out in off-list communications that including an
> entire digest is bad form.
>
> The forum is now open for the topic of list etiquette nits :)

I just keep the stuff (text) to keep my comment in context. Though
cleaning up post is nice I tend not to say much about all the junk in
peoples post unless I have to hunt around to find their reply.

From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Wed Jul 26 10:58:40 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (Garrett Goebel)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:58:40 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607201722l1a18c8dbg8e74e8e658c3c744@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607201722l1a18c8dbg8e74e8e658c3c744@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9CC84B04-AFFA-4739-A07E-562505F55486@goebel.ws>

Using Perl for sysadmin tasks was how I got started too.

Did you read the article about SysInternals and Winternals being  
bought by Microsoft?  Download their source code while you can ;)

If you don't mind constructive criticism, consider posting your  
script to the list. There's nothing that delurks list subscribers  
better than posting code that they feel they could have done  
better ;)  And you get the added benefit of seeing the different ways  
people might approach solving the same problem.

We used to do a variant of Perl Golf (http://www.xs4all.nl/~thospel/ 
golf/rules.html)... where those who decided to participate could aim  
for either the shortest script (standard golf) or the fastest script.

cheers,

Garrett

On Jul 20, 2006, at 7:22 PM, djgoku wrote:

> So I was need of a program that read in information from a file
> (comments + list of hostname/IPs) and spew out a batch file. Needless
> to say I used Perl, used some Regexp for the first time outside of the
> book I am reading. Though I didn't get it right the first time after
> some debugging and thought I got it working. All the batch file does
> is (call psshutdown.exe sysinterals program) try to shutdown the list
> of hostname/IPs that was read from the input file.
>
> Either way it was neat to create something other than exercises.
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul 27 09:01:49 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:01:49 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <9CC84B04-AFFA-4739-A07E-562505F55486@goebel.ws>
References: <99dd19c90607201722l1a18c8dbg8e74e8e658c3c744@mail.gmail.com>
	<9CC84B04-AFFA-4739-A07E-562505F55486@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/26/06, Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws> wrote:
> Using Perl for sysadmin tasks was how I got started too.
>
> Did you read the article about SysInternals and Winternals being
> bought by Microsoft?  Download their source code while you can ;)

Yah I seen that. Yah psshutdown is all I use ATM.

> If you don't mind constructive criticism, consider posting your
> script to the list. There's nothing that delurks list subscribers
> better than posting code that they feel they could have done
> better ;)  And you get the added benefit of seeing the different ways
> people might approach solving the same problem.

It really isn't much at all really haha.

<code>
#!perl

use strict;
use warnings;

my $count = 0;

open BATCH, ">", "all_server_shutdown.bat";

while (<>) {
	chomp;
	if (/^REM/i) {
		print BATCH "REM This batch file shuts down most/all servers.\n";
	} elsif (/(^SVR\_|^other)/i) {
		print BATCH "REM\n";
		print BATCH "REM [-----$_-----]\n";
	} elsif (/^\#/) {
                #All comments are lost forever!
		#print BATCH"REM $'\n";
	} else {
		if ($count == 0) {
			print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password
\\\\\U$_\E > all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
		} else {
			print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password
\\\\\U$_\E >> all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
		}
		$count++;
	}
}
</code>

> We used to do a variant of Perl Golf (http://www.xs4all.nl/~thospel/
> golf/rules.html)... where those who decided to participate could aim
> for either the shortest script (standard golf) or the fastest script.

Haha, sounds like fun. =)

From eric at alliances.org  Thu Jul 27 14:32:14 2006
From: eric at alliances.org (Eric)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:32:14 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77b74a1e1210ec12a2f4808495feb6d4@mail>

First offering:

bash-2.03# cat build_all_server_shutdown.sh
#!/bin/bash

/usr/bin/perl -ne 'next if /^(#)|(SVR_)|(other)|(REM)/; chomp; s/^(.*)$/psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\\\U$1\\E \> all_server_shutdown.txt/; print "$_\n";' < $1 > $2


bash-2.03# ./build_all_server_shutdown.sh test.dat all_server_shutdown.bat


bash-2.03# cat test.dat
SVR_12355 Hello
other stuff goes here
# This is a comment
1.2.3.4
192.168.0.1


bash-2.03# cat all_server_shutdown.bat
psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\U1.2.3.4\E > all_server_shutdown.txt
psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\U192.168.0.1\E > all_server_shutdown.txt
bash-2.03#


Eric

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:01:49 -0500, djgoku <djgoku at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/26/06, Garrett Goebel <ggoebel at goebel.ws> wrote:
>> Using Perl for sysadmin tasks was how I got started too.
>>
>> Did you read the article about SysInternals and Winternals being
>> bought by Microsoft?  Download their source code while you can ;)
> 
> Yah I seen that. Yah psshutdown is all I use ATM.
> 
>> If you don't mind constructive criticism, consider posting your
>> script to the list. There's nothing that delurks list subscribers
>> better than posting code that they feel they could have done
>> better ;)  And you get the added benefit of seeing the different ways
>> people might approach solving the same problem.
> 
> It really isn't much at all really haha.
> 
> <code>
> #!perl
> 
> use strict;
> use warnings;
> 
> my $count = 0;
> 
> open BATCH, ">", "all_server_shutdown.bat";
> 
> while (<>) {
> 	chomp;
> 	if (/^REM/i) {
> 		print BATCH "REM This batch file shuts down most/all servers.\n";
> 	} elsif (/(^SVR\_|^other)/i) {
> 		print BATCH "REM\n";
> 		print BATCH "REM [-----$_-----]\n";
> 	} elsif (/^\#/) {
>                 #All comments are lost forever!
> 		#print BATCH"REM $'\n";
> 	} else {
> 		if ($count == 0) {
> 			print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password
> \\\\\U$_\E > all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
> 		} else {
> 			print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password
> \\\\\U$_\E >> all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
> 		}
> 		$count++;
> 	}
> }
> </code>
> 
>> We used to do a variant of Perl Golf (http://www.xs4all.nl/~thospel/
>> golf/rules.html)... where those who decided to participate could aim
>> for either the shortest script (standard golf) or the fastest script.
> 
> Haha, sounds like fun. =)
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
-- 
Eric


From djgoku at gmail.com  Thu Jul 27 15:08:16 2006
From: djgoku at gmail.com (djgoku)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:08:16 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <77b74a1e1210ec12a2f4808495feb6d4@mail>
References: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>
	<77b74a1e1210ec12a2f4808495feb6d4@mail>
Message-ID: <99dd19c90607271508t22db7cd2o4f9314e318e977da@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/27/06, Eric <eric at alliances.org> wrote:
> First offering:
>
> bash-2.03# cat build_all_server_shutdown.sh
> #!/bin/bash
>
> /usr/bin/perl -ne 'next if /^(#)|(SVR_)|(other)|(REM)/; chomp; s/^(.*)$/psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\\\U$1\\E \> all_server_shutdown.txt/; print "$_\n";' < $1 > $2
>

The syntax for psshutdown is (for what I use it for, to shutdown
windows boxes from a windows box):

psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\servername
! psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\Uservername\E

the \U I am using is just to UPPERCASE all $_, and \E to stop after
the end of $_.

Also there is a reason why there is an if ($count == 0) so the log
all_server_shutdown.txt is overwritten when batch file runs the first
shutdown then after that it is just concatenated to the end of the log
file. But other than that I don't think there is anything that won't
allow the batch file to run.

> bash-2.03# ./build_all_server_shutdown.sh test.dat all_server_shutdown.bat
>
>
> bash-2.03# cat test.dat
> SVR_12355 Hello
> other stuff goes here
> # This is a comment
> 1.2.3.4
> 192.168.0.1

Sample config file:

$ cat test
REM #Reason for this was I wanted it to print this at the start of the
all_server_shutdown.bat though I think I found a way around having to
do this =) see code sample below.
svr_name
server1
server2
svr_name2
server3
server4
other
server5

$ cat all_server_shutdown.bat
REM Info about this batch file
REM
REM [-----svr_name-----]
psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server1 > all_server_shutdown.txt
psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server2 >> all_server_shutdown.txt
REM
REM [-----svr_name2-----]
psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server3 >> all_server_shutdown.txt
psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server4 >> all_server_shutdown.txt
REM
REM [-----other-----]
psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server5 >> all_server_shutdown.txt

>
> bash-2.03# cat all_server_shutdown.bat
> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\U1.2.3.4\E > all_server_shutdown.txt
> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\U192.168.0.1\E > all_server_shutdown.txt
> bash-2.03#

See above ^^^.

<code>
#!perl

use strict;
use warnings;

my $count = 0;

open BATCH, ">", "all_server_shutdown.bat";

print BATCH "REM This batch file shuts down most/all servers.\n";

while (<>) {
       chomp;
       if (/(^SVR\_|^other)/i) {
               print BATCH "REM\n";
               print BATCH "REM [-----$_-----]\n";
       } elsif (/^\#/) {
               #All comments are lost forever!
               #print BATCH"REM $'\n";
       } else {
               if ($count == 0) {
                       print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username
-p password
\\\\\U$_\E > all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
               } else {
                       print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username
-p password
\\\\\U$_\E >> all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
               }
               $count++;
       }
}
</code>

From eric at alliances.org  Thu Jul 27 19:35:38 2006
From: eric at alliances.org (Eric)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:35:38 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <99dd19c90607271508t22db7cd2o4f9314e318e977da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>	<77b74a1e1210ec12a2f4808495feb6d4@mail>
	<99dd19c90607271508t22db7cd2o4f9314e318e977da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44C977FA.8040103@alliances.org>

Second Offering:

bash-2.03# cat build_all_server_shutdown.sh
#!/bin/bash
USERNAME="username"
PASSWORD="password"

LOGFILE="all_server_shutdown.txt" \
COMMAND="psshutdown" \
CLOPTIONS="-s -t 1 -u ${USERNAME} -p ${PASSWORD}" \
/usr/bin/perl -ne 'BEGIN { $d=("-")x5; $r="REM"; $fn=$ENV{LOGFILE}; @cmd=($ENV{COMMAND}." ".$ENV{CLOPTIONS}." \\\\"," >> $fn"); $fl=<>; print "$r ${fl}erase $fn\n"; } next if /^(#)|($r)/; tr/a-z\r\n /A-Z/d; $_=(/^(SVR_)|(other)/i?"$r\n$r [$d$_$d]\n":join($_, at cmd)."\n"); print;' < $1 > $2


Eric

djgoku wrote:
> On 7/27/06, Eric <eric at alliances.org> wrote:
>   
>> First offering:
>>
>> bash-2.03# cat build_all_server_shutdown.sh
>> #!/bin/bash
>>
>> /usr/bin/perl -ne 'next if /^(#)|(SVR_)|(other)|(REM)/; chomp; s/^(.*)$/psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\\\U$1\\E \> all_server_shutdown.txt/; print "$_\n";' < $1 > $2
>>
>>     
>
> The syntax for psshutdown is (for what I use it for, to shutdown
> windows boxes from a windows box):
>
> psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\servername
> ! psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\Uservername\E
>
> the \U I am using is just to UPPERCASE all $_, and \E to stop after
> the end of $_.
>
> Also there is a reason why there is an if ($count == 0) so the log
> all_server_shutdown.txt is overwritten when batch file runs the first
> shutdown then after that it is just concatenated to the end of the log
> file. But other than that I don't think there is anything that won't
> allow the batch file to run.
>
>   
>> bash-2.03# ./build_all_server_shutdown.sh test.dat all_server_shutdown.bat
>>
>>
>> bash-2.03# cat test.dat
>> SVR_12355 Hello
>> other stuff goes here
>> # This is a comment
>> 1.2.3.4
>> 192.168.0.1
>>     
>
> Sample config file:
>
> $ cat test
> REM #Reason for this was I wanted it to print this at the start of the
> all_server_shutdown.bat though I think I found a way around having to
> do this =) see code sample below.
> svr_name
> server1
> server2
> svr_name2
> server3
> server4
> other
> server5
>
> $ cat all_server_shutdown.bat
> REM Info about this batch file
> REM
> REM [-----svr_name-----]
> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server1 > all_server_shutdown.txt
> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server2 >> all_server_shutdown.txt
> REM
> REM [-----svr_name2-----]
> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server3 >> all_server_shutdown.txt
> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server4 >> all_server_shutdown.txt
> REM
> REM [-----other-----]
> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\server5 >> all_server_shutdown.txt
>
>   
>> bash-2.03# cat all_server_shutdown.bat
>> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\U1.2.3.4\E > all_server_shutdown.txt
>> psshutdown -s -t 1 -u username -p password \\U192.168.0.1\E > all_server_shutdown.txt
>> bash-2.03#
>>     
>
> See above ^^^.
>
> <code>
> #!perl
>
> use strict;
> use warnings;
>
> my $count = 0;
>
> open BATCH, ">", "all_server_shutdown.bat";
>
> print BATCH "REM This batch file shuts down most/all servers.\n";
>
> while (<>) {
>        chomp;
>        if (/(^SVR\_|^other)/i) {
>                print BATCH "REM\n";
>                print BATCH "REM [-----$_-----]\n";
>        } elsif (/^\#/) {
>                #All comments are lost forever!
>                #print BATCH"REM $'\n";
>        } else {
>                if ($count == 0) {
>                        print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username
> -p password
> \\\\\U$_\E > all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
>                } else {
>                        print BATCH "psshutdown.exe -s -t 1 -u username
> -p password
> \\\\\U$_\E >> all_server_shutdown.txt\n";
>                }
>                $count++;
>        }
> }
> </code>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>   


From matthew at veradox.com  Fri Jul 28 10:07:42 2006
From: matthew at veradox.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:07:42 -0500
Subject: [Kc] contract perl opportunity
Message-ID: <44CA445E.9000403@veradox.com>

There is a company who needs around 20 hours/week of contract perl help 
- pay is hourly, depending on experience.  Some shell scripting, some C, 
mostly perl.  Job is a short- or long-term telecommute position.

Reply on- or off-list with your resume, availability, and salary 
expectations if you're interested.

Thanks,
Matthew Wilson

From scottk at uclick.com  Sat Jul 29 06:53:12 2006
From: scottk at uclick.com (Scott Kahler)
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:53:12 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <44C977FA.8040103@alliances.org>
References: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>
	<77b74a1e1210ec12a2f4808495feb6d4@mail>
	<99dd19c90607271508t22db7cd2o4f9314e318e977da@mail.gmail.com>
	<44C977FA.8040103@alliances.org>
Message-ID: <1154181192.24818.6.camel@walkabout>

If I ever saw someone using code like this on one of our work machines
they would be beaten about the head and neck with a large pipe.  It is
cool and fun stuff.. if you are going to be the only one running and
maintaining that code.

On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 21:35 -0500, Eric wrote:
> Second Offering:
> 
> bash-2.03# cat build_all_server_shutdown.sh
> #!/bin/bash
> USERNAME="username"
> PASSWORD="password"
> 
> LOGFILE="all_server_shutdown.txt" \
> COMMAND="psshutdown" \
> CLOPTIONS="-s -t 1 -u ${USERNAME} -p ${PASSWORD}" \
> /usr/bin/perl -ne 'BEGIN { $d=("-")x5; $r="REM"; $fn=$ENV{LOGFILE}; @cmd=($ENV{COMMAND}." ".$ENV{CLOPTIONS}." \\\\"," >> $fn"); $fl=<>; print "$r ${fl}erase $fn\n"; } next if /^(#)|($r)/; tr/a-z\r\n /A-Z/d; $_=(/^(SVR_)|(other)/i?"$r\n$r [$d$_$d]\n":join($_, at cmd)."\n"); print;' < $1 > $2
> 
> 
> Eric


Scott Kahler
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MC 900ft Perl Programmer
http://www.uclick.com
816-210-8884
scottk at uclick.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Brain: Gone at last, obsequious buffoons. 
Pinky: Right-O Brain. Narf! Obsequious! 
Brain: Pinky, do you have any idea what obsequious means? 
Pinky: No, but it sounds squishy! Ooo I love squishy! 




From ggoebel at goebel.ws  Sun Jul 30 08:05:16 2006
From: ggoebel at goebel.ws (Garrett Goebel)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:05:16 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <1154181192.24818.6.camel@walkabout>
References: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>
	<77b74a1e1210ec12a2f4808495feb6d4@mail>
	<99dd19c90607271508t22db7cd2o4f9314e318e977da@mail.gmail.com>
	<44C977FA.8040103@alliances.org>
	<1154181192.24818.6.camel@walkabout>
Message-ID: <79A0B354-A745-4133-BD08-947E7D515463@goebel.ws>

Well, perhaps you'd like to submit a "best practices" version?

cheers,

Garrett

On Jul 29, 2006, at 8:53 AM, Scott Kahler wrote:

> If I ever saw someone using code like this on one of our work machines
> they would be beaten about the head and neck with a large pipe.  It is
> cool and fun stuff.. if you are going to be the only one running and
> maintaining that code.
>
> On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 21:35 -0500, Eric wrote:
>> Second Offering:
>>
>> bash-2.03# cat build_all_server_shutdown.sh
>> #!/bin/bash
>> USERNAME="username"
>> PASSWORD="password"
>>
>> LOGFILE="all_server_shutdown.txt" \
>> COMMAND="psshutdown" \
>> CLOPTIONS="-s -t 1 -u ${USERNAME} -p ${PASSWORD}" \
>> /usr/bin/perl -ne 'BEGIN { $d=("-")x5; $r="REM"; $fn=$ENV 
>> {LOGFILE}; @cmd=($ENV{COMMAND}." ".$ENV{CLOPTIONS}." \\\\"," >>  
>> $fn"); $fl=<>; print "$r ${fl}erase $fn\n"; } next if /^(#)|($r)/;  
>> tr/a-z\r\n /A-Z/d; $_=(/^(SVR_)|(other)/i?"$r\n$r [$d$_$d]\n":join 
>> ($_, at cmd)."\n"); print;' < $1 > $2
>>
>>
>> Eric
>
>
> Scott Kahler
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> MC 900ft Perl Programmer
> http://www.uclick.com
> 816-210-8884
> scottk at uclick.com
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> Brain: Gone at last, obsequious buffoons.
> Pinky: Right-O Brain. Narf! Obsequious!
> Brain: Pinky, do you have any idea what obsequious means?
> Pinky: No, but it sounds squishy! Ooo I love squishy!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kc mailing list
> kc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kc
>


From randall.munden at gmail.com  Mon Jul 31 15:05:53 2006
From: randall.munden at gmail.com (Randall Munden)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:05:53 -0500
Subject: [Kc] RIP: kcgeek.com?
In-Reply-To: <20060705212535.GA32568@mooresystems.com>
References: <20060704171719.GA20671@mooresystems.com>
	<018301c6a072$736088a0$070a0a0a@glenn2500>
	<1467780a0607051352n228c53e8pb4981051f6ef35d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060705212535.GA32568@mooresystems.com>
Message-ID: <1467780a0607311505v3f5803cdp4ed5fb21f45f9d8d@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW, we have recovered kcgeek.com from the domain sniper/squatter.
Currently, only a forum system is up.  More to follow.

--rjm--

On 7/5/06, Andrew Moore <amoore at mooresystems.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:52:56PM -0500, Randall Munden wrote:
> > As soon as I get off my lazy ass and truck the box out there we should
> > be back up.  In the meantime most of the old gang is on
> > irc://impala.fluxcapacitor.net #kcgeek.
>
> Aha!
>
> Good to see you're on the kc.pm.org list, Randy, and I hope all is
> well these days.
>
> keep us posted on the development!
>
> -Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
-- Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

http://www.librarything.com/profile/blather

From jay at jays.net  Mon Jul 31 16:24:23 2006
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:24:23 -0500
Subject: [Kc] Using Perl
In-Reply-To: <79A0B354-A745-4133-BD08-947E7D515463@goebel.ws>
References: <99dd19c90607270901o7d8bef91x499f2b73118492df@mail.gmail.com>	<77b74a1e1210ec12a2f4808495feb6d4@mail>	<99dd19c90607271508t22db7cd2o4f9314e318e977da@mail.gmail.com>	<44C977FA.8040103@alliances.org>	<1154181192.24818.6.camel@walkabout>
	<79A0B354-A745-4133-BD08-947E7D515463@goebel.ws>
Message-ID: <44CE9127.7050505@jays.net>

Garrett Goebel wrote:
> Well, perhaps you'd like to submit a "best practices" version?

Before:

> bash-2.03# cat build_all_server_shutdown.sh
> #!/bin/bash
> USERNAME="username"
> PASSWORD="password"
>
> LOGFILE="all_server_shutdown.txt" \
> COMMAND="psshutdown" \
> CLOPTIONS="-s -t 1 -u ${USERNAME} -p ${PASSWORD}" \
> /usr/bin/perl -ne 'BEGIN { $d=("-")x5; $r="REM"; $fn=$ENV 
> {LOGFILE}; @cmd=($ENV{COMMAND}." ".$ENV{CLOPTIONS}." \\\\"," >>  
> $fn"); $fl=<>; print "$r ${fl}erase $fn\n"; } next if /^(#)|($r)/;  
> tr/a-z\r\n /A-Z/d; $_=(/^(SVR_)|(other)/i?"$r\n$r [$d$_$d]\n":join 
> ($_, at cmd)."\n"); print;' < $1 > $2

Huh. I can't even get that to run. The error I get:

   line 5: $1: ambiguous redirect

Its basically generating a file to disk? Can you post a sample file?

j