From jproctor at oit.umass.edu Tue May 1 08:12:53 2001 From: jproctor at oit.umass.edu (j proctor) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Should stop bouncing my own mail :( In-Reply-To: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD19E@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er j proctor wrote - >>> Actually I am heading (hopefully) to the WebCT conference >>> held in Canada during June 23-27th... If I can scrape >>> together year-end monies... >> >> Use your money for YAPC instead! It's probably >> cheaper ($85 for all three days) They're only a week apart. Get FCCJ to pay for travel and registration to both, and take a personal vacation between them. Invite your wife, even. Canada is very pleasant in June. > Yes, but one is pleasure (YAPC) and one is work (WebCT) :( GROUP PROJECT: Replace WebCT. Sure, we won't be the first, but we can do it better than everyone else. Right? RIGHT? > As far as keys go - I am trying to be as incompatible as possible - what > with using a Mac and all :) Besides, like J mentioned, how do we > really know it's you and not some 6th Day clone? Well, *I* know it's him. If you don't recognise him, then maybe *you're* the clone. :) j Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From sml at zfx.com Tue May 1 07:49:59 2001 From: sml at zfx.com (Steve Lane) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Should stop bouncing my own mail :( References: Message-ID: <3AEEB0F7.6F0E1CCF@zfx.com> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Steve Lane wrote - j proctor wrote: > They're only a week apart. Get FCCJ to pay for travel and registration to > both, and take a personal vacation between them. Invite your wife, even. > Canada is very pleasant in June. i'd love to go to YAPC, but both the cost of a trip to Montreal (airfare is $482 from TRI, and i bet cabfare from the airport to McGill and back is not cheap, and then there's food and the hotel-or-dorm-room and you're talking a $700-minimum trip) and my somewhat-provincial concerns about visiting a foreign country by myself are preventing me from going. > > Yes, but one is pleasure (YAPC) and one is work (WebCT) :( > > GROUP PROJECT: Replace WebCT. Sure, we won't be the first, but we can do > it better than everyone else. Right? RIGHT? i'm game. i hadn't heard of WebCT before i just went to http://www.webct.com . the first step is developing a spec. anyone know where a spec for WebCT is? -- Steve Lane Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From jproctor at oit.umass.edu Tue May 1 08:54:21 2001 From: jproctor at oit.umass.edu (j proctor) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Should stop bouncing my own mail :( In-Reply-To: <3AEEB0F7.6F0E1CCF@zfx.com> Message-ID: On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er j proctor wrote - > i'd love to go to YAPC, but both the cost of a trip to > Montreal (airfare is $482 from TRI, and i bet cabfare > from the airport to McGill and back is not cheap, and > then there's food and the hotel-or-dorm-room and you're > talking a $700-minimum trip) and my somewhat-provincial > concerns about visiting a foreign country by myself > are preventing me from going. Bah! I can't help it if you live near an airport that only has overpriced airlines. Drive to Knoxville or something. Check flights to Burlington, VT, and rent a car (or I could even pick you up if you're there while I'm driving past). And what's this about a foreign country? I thought Canada was the 51st through 62nd states. Or however many. You know. We let Tom Green in; the least they can do is be friendly in return. (Actually, on my one previous trip to Canada, the border "guard" going in had the temperament of Doug McKenzie. "You're Americans? Go ahead in, eh?" "You need some ID or somethin'?" "Naw. Have fun, eh?" It was the Colonel-Klink-wannabe US guard coming back into NY that was a jackass.) > i'm game. i hadn't heard of WebCT before i just went > to http://www.webct.com . the first step is developing > a spec. anyone know where a spec for WebCT is? WebCT is miserable, but I was still at least partly joking. :) j Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Tue May 1 09:01:57 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Should stop bouncing my own mail :( Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1AB@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - OK - that's a good project - but we would need to replace WCB, WebCT, and Blackboard. I think it would be very easy if we all pitch in. Should I create a Sourceforge project and we can get started? -Sneex- :] PS - About the clone thing - how do we know it's J? J said: GROUP PROJECT: Replace WebCT. Sure, we won't be the first, but we can do it better than everyone else. Right? RIGHT? Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Tue May 1 09:10:34 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Group Project Annoucement Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1AC@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - No spec per se, but they do have a published API. :) Let's make the specs for a new distance learning, courseware delivery system: 1) Must be designed with Open Source in mind. 2) Must be free of all copyrights and liens. (IE, if you're not willing to give it away - then you may not want to contribute - unless we are talking about YACDSC ???) 3) Must be interoperable with other delivery methods - Hmmm, the two major players are using IMS/XML to export their databases. We shall see on that one... 4) Should use SOAP to speak with other SOAP aware systems. 5) ... Please chime in here folks (even you lurkers :) -Sneex- :] PS - About visiting other countries - having been to a few (Germany, S. Korea, Panama, etc.) I would say that visiting alone if most of the fun. But I suppose I am an adventurer at heart. PPS - Defined: Adventure, verb, an unplanned trip into the unknown - can somtimes be disenchanting, but nevertheless - FUN :) OK OK, it was during the time I was in the Army, and there were many other just likew me in the same boat. OK, Steve, one of us will hold your hand - we promise :) -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lane To: j proctor Cc: Jax Perl Mongers Sent: 5/1/01 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [JaxPM] Should stop bouncing my own mail :( On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Steve Lane wrote - j proctor wrote: > They're only a week apart. Get FCCJ to pay for travel and registration to > both, and take a personal vacation between them. Invite your wife, even. > Canada is very pleasant in June. i'd love to go to YAPC, but both the cost of a trip to Montreal (airfare is $482 from TRI, and i bet cabfare from the airport to McGill and back is not cheap, and then there's food and the hotel-or-dorm-room and you're talking a $700-minimum trip) and my somewhat-provincial concerns about visiting a foreign country by myself are preventing me from going. > > Yes, but one is pleasure (YAPC) and one is work (WebCT) :( > > GROUP PROJECT: Replace WebCT. Sure, we won't be the first, but we can do > it better than everyone else. Right? RIGHT? i'm game. i hadn't heard of WebCT before i just went to http://www.webct.com . the first step is developing a spec. anyone know where a spec for WebCT is? -- Steve Lane Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From jproctor at oit.umass.edu Tue May 1 10:12:55 2001 From: jproctor at oit.umass.edu (j proctor) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Group Project Annoucement In-Reply-To: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1AC@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er j proctor wrote - > 1) Must be designed with Open Source in mind. > 2) Must be free of all copyrights and liens. (IE, if you're not willing to > give it away - then you may not want to contribute - unless we are talking > about YACDSC ???) Amend to *external* copyrights and liens. If we want to enforce any of the open source or Free licenses, we have to retain the copyright. Once it's in the public domain, the license becomes irrelevant. Damn. Now I'm gonna have to go find what all the licenses mean again. I've long since forgotten what the differences are between them. > 3) Must be interoperable with other delivery methods - Hmmm, the two major > players are using IMS/XML to export their databases. We shall see on that > one... Haven't explored that, but it sounds reasonable to me. I don't have a problem using XML as the native format, rather than inventing our own file structure. Now we just have to settle on a DTD. > 4) Should use SOAP to speak with other SOAP aware systems. Agreed. Which other SOAPy systems were you thinking of? > 5) ... 5) Content delivery cannot rely on gratuitous, kludgy, crufty, non-portable, or browser-mangling JavaScript/DHTML code. XHTML 1.0 Transitional is sufficient for at least a 2 year timeframe. j Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Tue May 1 09:56:46 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Group Project Annoucement Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1B2@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Re: SOAPy - we have started a .NET initiative internally here. I would think that others will want to talk to .NET - plus I've read that M$ is wanting/looking for a .NET to OSDN porter to help them... Re: Licenses - J's got a project to report back on :) You go J! PS - I didn't mean to imply that what code people contribute didn't remain in their possession, what I did mean was that the project has co-author/ownership by definition. We could incorporate and do the Apache thing (or not and do the Perl thing?) I'm willing to pay for incorporation in the State of Florida unless someone knows of a better state? What name should we call our project? And, who are the founding members? Re: XML DTD - let's get the specs out first :) Re: #5, et al, I agree that the system should embrace current and emerging standards. But sometimes we need to stick to the basics... How many here are hard core Perl'ers? PHP? Apache API or mod_perl? We may have a training route to travel first. Over all I am game :) (PS - I will most likely do it anyways as I have been trying to 'get started' on this for about a year now.) -Sneex- :] -----Original Message----- From: j proctor To: Jax Perl Mongers Sent: 5/1/01 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [JaxPM] Group Project Annoucement On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er j proctor wrote - Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From jproctor at oit.umass.edu Tue May 1 10:52:49 2001 From: jproctor at oit.umass.edu (j proctor) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Group Project Annoucement In-Reply-To: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1B2@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er j proctor wrote - First, does anyone have any objection to our continuing to discuss this on the full Jax.PM mailing list? If so, we'll pull it off. We will likely do that eventually anyway, but for getting started, many of you may be interested in lurking just to see how these things get going and what some of the issues are in a large Perl(-ish) project. > I'm willing to pay for incorporation > in the State of Florida unless someone knows of a better state? Delaware is very popular in the for-profit circles. Dunno what their 501(c)(3) rules are like, though, I don't see a problem with keeping it under the auspices of Jax.PM rather than a separate entity. There may be some reason to make it an official non-profit, but I don't think that's actually necessary at this point. It looks like a lot of paperwork for very little benefit. > What name should we call our project? And, who are the founding members? WebCTsucks.org? :) Let's hash out a little more about what it does and how it'll improve on the primary competitors, then we'll pick something catchy once we've got a little more to chew on. > Re: XML DTD - let's get the specs out first :) Of course. But I sorta see this as part of the spec, along with the interoperability. It's going to take some compelling effort to convince me this isn't what we should end up with. > But sometimes we need to stick to the basics... How many here are hard core > Perl'ers? > PHP? Apache API or mod_perl? We may have a training route to travel first. Just getting into PHP. HTML::Mason is incredibly cool. This is possibly a question to tackle later, too. Let's decide what we need the software to do, then pick the best tool to make that happen. :) j Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From sml at zfx.com Tue May 1 10:47:11 2001 From: sml at zfx.com (Steve Lane) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Group Project Annoucement References: Message-ID: <3AEEDA7F.97DDA928@zfx.com> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Steve Lane wrote - j proctor wrote: > > But sometimes we need to stick to the basics... How many here are hard core > > Perl'ers? > > PHP? Apache API or mod_perl? We may have a training route to travel first. > > Just getting into PHP. HTML::Mason is incredibly cool. hard-core Perl, Apache, mysql. soft-core mod_perl, xml. zero-core php, copyright law, corporate law, licenses, graphix. > This is possibly > a question to tackle later, too. Let's decide what we need the software > to do, then pick the best tool to make that happen. :) spec first, mockups second. the rest is mostly easy. i have done almost no large-scale, multiple-person projects. i know several people that use CVS for them (i use CVS in a very simple way for small projects). would CVS work well for this project? -- Steve Lane Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From nate at campi.cc Tue May 1 12:05:48 2001 From: nate at campi.cc (Nate Campi) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Group Project Annoucement In-Reply-To: ; from jproctor@oit.umass.edu on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 11:52:49AM -0400 References: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1B2@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: <20010501100548.A10533@campi.cc> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Nate Campi wrote - On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 11:52:49AM -0400, j proctor wrote: > On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er j proctor wrote - > > > First, does anyone have any objection to our continuing to discuss this on > the full Jax.PM mailing list? If so, we'll pull it off. We will likely > do that eventually anyway, but for getting started, many of you may be > interested in lurking just to see how these things get going and what some > of the issues are in a large Perl(-ish) project. Yes, please leave it on the main list. I'll watch for a while and see if I might fit in somewhere, and if so I'll follow it off to the new list when it goes. > > What name should we call our project? And, who are the founding members? > > WebCTsucks.org? :) If you do that you need to register WebCTsucks-sucks.org so noone makes fun of us! ;) -- Nate Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Wed May 2 04:29:40 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] RE: pcl module Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1B9@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - See below for code... -----Original Message----- From: Mark Keehn To: jax@jacksonville.pm.org Sent: 5/2/01 1:46 AM Subject: pcl module This seems to be the best location for me to attempt to obtain information on where I can get this Printer Control Language perl module. Can you advise me of if you have it available and how to get it if you do have it. Thanks Mark Keehn ====== -Sneex- Reply ================================== Hmmmm... If you send me your FAX number I might be able to fax you a more complete set of commands (written in Progress 4GL.) Well, it is neither done, nor a module, but here is what I have so far; none of it works. I more or less abandon this work in 1999. Sorry. Progress 4GL under CTOS and Perl (et al) are not quite the same when it comes to dumping raw data directly to the HP PCL engine. # HP LaserJet III & 4 (both families) PCL-5 printer control set... # Draft 1 ... Please bear with me as this is 'yet again' a work in progress. # (I lost the originals I had done in 1995 under CTOS using Progress 4GL; # so I am now re-distributing them for Perl - Enjoy! :) # Copyright (C) Bill Jones 1995,1999; All Rights Reserved. # (This document was developed using material obtained in the public # domain but which is Cpyrighted (C) HP 1990; All Rights Reserved. All or # Part of this document may be reproduced as described by licensing # prodecures of HP Corp.) # The following commands and accompanying discussion can be found # in the HP PCL 5 Printer Language Technical Reference Manual (c)1990. # Initialization and Job Control ### # StartEscape $pcl_startesc = '\033'; # I need to see if this is octal or not... ### JobControl, Reset, Number of Copies $pcl_jc = '&l'; $pcl_reset = 'E'; $pcl_numcopies = 'X'; # Then give number of copies, range is 0-99... ### Duplexing ### #Simplex/Duplex Bindings? $pcl_sdmode = 'S'; # Then give 0 (Simplex), 1 (Long), 2 (Short)... # Offset Registration $pcl_lor = 'U'; # Left (Long edge) registration... $pcl_tor = 'Z'; # Top (Short edge) registration... # Duplex side $pcl_duplex = 'a'; # 0 = Select next side, 1 = Select Front, 2 = Select Back $pcl_dupstop = 'G'; # 'Tail' of the Duplexing command... # Job Separation - Identify one printing job from another... $pcl_jobsep = '\033' . '\&l1T'; # a complete command... ### Page Control - Source, Size, orientation, Margins, and Text spacing... ### # Page Size $pcl_size = 'A'; # Notes about this forth coming... :] # Page Length $pcl_length = 'P'; # Notes forth coming # Page Source $pcl_source = 'H'; # Notes forth coming # Orientation $pcl_orient = 'O'; # Notes forth coming # Print Direction $pcl_direction = 'a'; # In degrees: 0-Portrait, 90-Landscape, 180-Reverse Portrait, etc... $pcl_dirstop = 'P'; # tail of command # Text Area - used to restrict printing to a specific area $pcl_margin = 'a'; # Notes forth coming $pcl_leftmar = 'L'; # Notes forth coming $pcl_rightmar = 'M'; # Notes forth coming # Clear horizontal margins $pcl_clearhm = '9'; # Notes forth coming # Top Margin $pcl_tm = 'E'; # Notes forth coming # Text Length $pcl_tl = 'F'; # Set number of lines on page; notes forth coming # Line Spacing $pcl_ls = 'D'; # set number of lines per inch, use one of # 1,2,3,4,6,8,12,16,24, or 48 ONLY... # # Perforation Skip command forth coming... # # # HMI - Horizontal Motion Index - command forth coming... # # # VMI - Vertical Motion Index - command forth coming... # # # Other things - like pen placement, font description, and graphics - # will be made available as I discover time... # Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Wed May 2 18:41:23 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: O'Reilly Open Source Convention--Registration Open Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1C5@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI -----Original Message----- From: Denise Olliffe To: bill@fccj.org Sent: 5/1/01 3:31 PM Subject: O'Reilly Open Source Convention--Registration Open May 1, 2001 BUCKING THE ECONOMY--O'REILLY'S 2001 OPEN SOURCE CONVENTION LARGER THAN EVER "The best kept secret of our world is that various open source software products are the lynch pins that hold our global enterprise together" --Keynote speaker Phillip Moore of Morgan Stanley Registration is now open for the O'Reilly Open Source Convention, to be held July 23-27, 2001 at the Sheraton San Diego, San Diego, CA. With over 200 talks, 60 tutorials, and 17 rooms, this year's convention, encompassing the Perl Conference 5, the PHP Conference, the 8th Tcl/Tk Conference, XTech, the O'Reilly Summit on Open Source Strategies, and others--is larger (and one day longer) than O'Reilly's previous open source conventions. The increased size of the O'Reilly Open Source Convention also required a change of venue, and the conference planners chose San Diego so that attendees could combine the convention with a little R&R. "Fun, sun, and family activities are endless in San Diego, and this year we're planning more activities for the families of attendees than ever before," says Angela Capo, O'Reilly's Conference Planner. O'Reilly's Open Source Convention is renowned as a gathering of top-notch leaders, experts, and visionaries from all avenues of the open source movement. This year's speakers and panelists include: Larry Wall, Rasmus Lerdorf, Guido van Rossum, Eric S. Raymond, Brian Behlendorf, Damian Conway, W. Phillip Moore, chromatic, David Ascher, Jon Orwant, Mitchell Baker, Tom Christiansen, Simon Cozens, Randal Schwartz, Mark-Jason Dominus, Doug MacEachern, Ray Lischner, and Andy Neely. (For a complete list of speakers, see http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/speakers.html) "This year, more than ever, the open source convention is a key event for anyone interested in the future of software," says Tim O'Reilly, founder and president of O'Reilly & Associates. "Even as the hype and stock market valuations of Linux companies are receding, use of open source software development methodologies is on the upswing, as mainstream companies embrace the benefits of collaborative development and open source peer review. What's more, we're in the middle of a technological sea change, as we move from the desktop era to network-centric computing. Open source developers and system administrators need to learn new skills, such as working with XML, building web services with SOAP and XML-RPC, or interfacing with new networking platforms such as Jabber, Gnutella, and Jxta--not to mention working with bigger, more scalable database servers and smaller mobile devices and embedded systems." O'Reilly Open Source Convention and Perl Conference 5 Early Bird Registration through June 22, 2001: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/register.html O'Reilly User Group members are offered 20% discount on all conference session and tutorial fees. Register before June 22nd, and receive 20% discount off the already reduced Early Bird pricing. After June 22nd, discount will be applied to regular pricing. Discount code: DSUG (when registering online, enter discount code where it says "If you received a discount code, please enter it here:" Please pass this info on to your group members. Thanks, Denise Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Wed May 2 18:56:03 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Fwd: O'Reilly UG Program seeking your help Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1C7@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI -Sneex- :] Begin forwarded message: > From: Denise Olliffe > Date: Wed May 02, 2001 12:39:20 PM US/Eastern > To: bill@fccj.org > Subject: O'Reilly UG Program seeking your help > Received: from fccjmail.fccj.cc.fl.us ([207.203.47.6]) by > msx1.fccj.cc.fl.us with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service > Version 5.5.2650.21) id HWLVMGLR; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:18 -0400 > Received: from smtp.oreilly.com (smtp.oreilly.com [204.148.43.8]) by > fccjmail.fccj.cc.fl.us (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA22375 for > ; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:22:13 -0400 (EDT) > Received: (from deniseo@localhost) by smtp.oreilly.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) > id f42GdKu00925 for bill@fccj.org; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:39:20 -0700 (PDT) > Message-Id: <200105021639.f42GdKu00925@smtp.oreilly.com> > > Hi there, > > Yesterday, I sent information to you regarding the O'Reilly Open Source > Convention, July 23-27, 2001. Registration is now open. > > If you would help O'Reilly by posting conference banner on your web > site, here are some graphics to choose from: > http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/banners/ > > Please have the banner link to: > http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ > > Discount Reminder: > > User group members are offered 20% disount on all conference sessions > and tutorials fees. Register before June 22nd, and receive 20% > discount off the already reduced Early Bird pricing. After June 22nd, > discount will be applied to regular pricing. > > Discount code: DSUG > > Register by phone: 800-998-9938 > or online at: http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ > --When registering by phone, please provide the representative with the > DSUG discount code, in order to receive the discount. > --When registering online, enter discount code where it says: "If you > received a discount code, please enter it here" > > Please pass discount info on to your members. If your group is able to > post a banner for our conference, please let me know. > > :) > Denise Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 3 13:33:45 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:44 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] RE: U N S U B S C R I B E jacksonville-pm-list Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD1D8@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Opps, lost one... > ---------- > From: Majordomo@pm.org > Reply To: Majordomo@pm.org > Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2001 10:33 AM > To: jacksonville-pm-list-approval@pm.org > Subject: U N S U B S C R I B E jacksonville-pm-list > The actual person was deleted to help protect his identity... *** has u n s u b s c r i b e d from jacksonville-pm-list. > No action is required on your part. > > Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Fri May 4 20:39:33 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: Tim O'Reilly Responds to Microsoft Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD20D@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI; -Sneex- :] -----Original Message----- From: Denise Olliffe To: bill@fccj.org Sent: 5/4/01 5:09 PM Subject: Tim O'Reilly Responds to Microsoft May 4, 2001 Tim O'Reilly Responds to Microsoft "Shared Source" Initiative Yesterday, in a speech defending Microsoft's business model at the Stern School of Business at New York University, Craig Mundie, a senior vice president at Microsoft, suggested that companies embracing open source software are putting their intellectual property at risk. Here is Tim O'Reilly's response: "Microsoft SVP Craig Mundie is dead right when he says that the next generation of Internet applications can only come about through development efforts from a wide-ranging group of companies and developers. And Microsoft's 'Shared Source Philosophy' is a clear vindication of open source--they're lining up to embrace and extend the open source development model. But Mundie's contention that open source encourages code forking is a red herring. Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, and Me provide a more compelling example of 'unhealthy forking of a code base' than any open source project. Further, Mundie's focus on the evils of the GPL is somewhat of a smokescreen. While he raises legitimate issues, he ignores the widespread business adoption of other open source technologies like Apache and Perl that use more flexible, IP-friendly licenses. And although a significant chunk of any Linux distribution is covered by the GPL, business use has soared in the past few years with no notable IP tragedies to date. The world of computing has changed, and the smart people at Microsoft are trying hard to figure out how to stay ahead of the pack. They're doing a lot of things right--they've got a big story in .NET. I invite Craig Mundie to be my guest at our Open Source Convention in San Diego this July. If he wants to bring along some colleagues, I'll welcome them, too. After a few days immersed in the bleeding edge of open source development, I think he'll have an even bigger story to tell." ---------------------------- We hope you're also planning to attend the Open Source Convention in San Diego, July 23-27,2001. Registration is now online at: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/press.html For the text of Mundie's speech: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/craig/05-03sharedsource.asp For more information on O'Reilly's Open Source Convention: http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ To see Tim's response online: http://www.oreillynet.com/weblogs/author/27 --Denise Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Fri May 4 22:50:04 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD213@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Sorry, I was delayed having to actually work for a living :) I haven't seen anyone objecting to discussing this here ('cept for the recent u n s u b s c r i b e r ...) At any rate, I am not advocating another MadDuck, WebCT, or Blackboard operation, I just want things to be simple, extensible, and portable. I am not suggesting I trick anyone into helping me write s/w for FCCJ - whatever comes of this we all get to keep and play with / extend for each individual person. I am hoping J comes back with some good news regarding Licensing; I am somewhat partial to Apache and/or Perl's model. Maybe I might lean toward a 'community source' type deal where the primary interest in 'granted' to the Perl Monger's as a whole -- not just Jax.PM -- that way we get sort of non-profit protection in out efforts. Each contributor maintains an individual co-authorship of the project, sharing co-ownership with Jacksonville Perl Monger membership. I feel this would be a good group project to get 'yer feet wet' as it were for the new and old Perl'ers alike :) As far as projects go, I've more or less done the following type projects: * Built mid-range AIX/Solaris data centers... * Since 1997, built/installed/maintained several courseware delivery systems using WCB, WebCT, Blackboard, and at one time in the remote past, even set-up Virtual-U. (Note, WCB and Virtual-U are both completely written in Perl -- at least back in 1998 they were...) * Written complete s/w systems using C, Progress 4GL (on CTOS and Unix), and a few in Perl (filesystem scanners for tracking/auditing HQX submissions for ShadowMac, remailers, HTML posters, a lot of web-centric or sysamdin stuff...) However, my project management skills suck, and I feel that J or Steve have MUCH more relevant Perl experience than I - so, therefore I submit that we elect either Steve or J into the position of Keeper of the Holiest Jax.PM Project specs, goals, and guidelines :) What say you, Jax.PM members? Also, along the lines of 'specs' I would like to open for discussion these: General requirements: 1) No requirement may violate another requirement: * Must be portable within Intel/PPC/Ultrasparc systems... * Must use current/stable versions of all software... * Must use ONLY Open Source systems or be completely hand written by PM members... Software requirements: * Must use Apache-Stable code, no beta or bleeding edge stuff... * Must use Perl-Stable code, etc, etc... We need to decide upon a database model: XML-oriented (ie: flat text, but portable descriptors...) DBM/DBI MySQL Postgres Choose something free that runs on at least: Redhat, LinuxPPC, SuSE, Debian, AIX, and Solaris, etc... I know that Postgres runs on them all... (Rel/Obj DMBS like Oracle, Progress, Sybase, etc, are out of my price range -- unless someone wants to give me one?) Application requirements: * Must forms/template driven with security foremost in mind. * Be extensible using said templates... * Have various authentication methods: LDAP, /etc/passwd, .htaccess, etc... * Have it's own internal mail system (must not rely, nor depend, upon the sendmail, blat.exe, or lack thereof...) * Have a IRC/Chat method... * Have a Whiteboard function... * Have a Discussion list function... * Have a Portal function. * Have a forms/template driven testing system... I think that will take us about 3 months if we get started right away :) (I'm teasing, I'm teasing. Seriously, you guys think about it and get back to the list with some ideas or follow-up discussion.) Best; -Sneex- :] Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From sml at zfx.com Sat May 5 07:43:49 2001 From: sml at zfx.com (Steve Lane) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project References: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD213@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: <3AF3F585.FEE2F4CB@zfx.com> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Steve Lane wrote - "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote: > However, my project management skills suck, and I feel that J or Steve have > MUCH more relevant Perl experience than I - so, therefore I submit that we > elect either Steve or J into the position of Keeper of the Holiest Jax.PM > Project specs, goals, and guidelines :) nope -- i'd love to help, but this is a little too similar to my day job (actually, it's exactly like my day job :) for me to commit to anything. > Also, along the lines of 'specs' I would like to open for discussion these: > > General requirements: > > 1) No requirement may violate another requirement: > * Must be portable within Intel/PPC/Ultrasparc systems... > * Must use current/stable versions of all software... > * Must use ONLY Open Source systems or be completely > hand written by PM members... no problem. > Software requirements: > > * Must use Apache-Stable code, no beta or bleeding edge stuff... > * Must use Perl-Stable code, etc, etc... any particular versions? apache 1.3.19? perl 5.6.1? probably not a -huge- issue, but an easy one to get out of the way. has the host machine been chosen yet? > We need to decide upon a database model: > > XML-oriented (ie: flat text, but portable descriptors...) > DBM/DBI > MySQL > Postgres > Choose something free that runs on at least: > Redhat, LinuxPPC, SuSE, Debian, AIX, and Solaris, etc... > I know that Postgres runs on them all... i'm very familiar/experienced with mysql, other than installing it -- haven't done that in a couple of years. but i'll probably be doing an install this weekend. i favor mysql for the core database, with a nice set of methods for an XML export of the entire database. if mysql, DBI and DBD::mysql go without saying i guess. mod_perl? > Application requirements: > > * Must forms/template driven with security foremost in mind. > * Be extensible using said templates... > * Have various authentication methods: LDAP, /etc/passwd, .htaccess, > etc... why have more than one? a mod_perl serverauth lookup into the mysql database would work well i think. > * Have it's own internal mail system (must not rely, nor depend, upon > the sendmail, blat.exe, or lack thereof...) definitely. what's the current Perl solution for email? Mail::Sender? (i use sendmail, but probably need to get away from that.) > * Have a IRC/Chat method... with what? java? > * Have a Whiteboard function... > * Have a Discussion list function... > * Have a Portal function. more info is needed :) but it looks like this is the beginning of the spec. i've done these kinds of apps a lot. > * Have a forms/template driven testing system... how about Test::Harness for the test suite? use LWP and make a really killer set of tests that do everything from security to layout testing? i've yet to do a good t/* suite, but i've been wanting to make one lately. > I think that will take us about 3 months if we get started right away :) heh. i'm used to making estimates in terms of hours. this is still a little too rough for a reasonable estimate, but i'd guess that it'd take me 200-1000 hrs, depending on features, and not including design/html-mockups. it's a whole bunch of functions. so... how about just starting with one of the functions... i.e. whiteboard... and making a really killer app for it, and go from there? > (I'm teasing, I'm teasing. Seriously, you guys think about it and get back > to the list with some ideas or follow-up discussion.) i favor having the "final product" be a CPAN bundle with the usual installation path. the main applications can be modules, then have a lightweight set of stuff to do to httpd.conf to make the thing work. a little installer to make docroot (and stuff initial set of HTML files) and database. then config the app through the web and the rest falls into place. i think this could be a good thing... i don't know if there are many Perl modules that are full "products" and are of good quality. let's build this thing with an emphasis on reusability (my comments on CPAN bundle and test suite and installation imply that i guess... but just want to make sure). people (including me) might be more likely to contribute if they know they can install their own version of the finished product immediately. any comments on version control? i still like CVS, though i have a lot to learn about it. looks to me like the next steps are: - decide on initial scope - firm up the specs - get a machine - design the site, modules, database - start coding -- Steve Lane Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From greg at turnstep.com Sat May 5 08:14:12 2001 From: greg at turnstep.com (greg@turnstep.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project Message-ID: <200105051314.JAA01117@granger.mail.mindspring.net> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er greg@turnstep.com wrote - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Not that I'd have much time to really contribute to such a project :), but here is my two cents: * Get a better description of exactly what it is that is going to be built. Still sounds a bit hazy to me, and perhaps a little too ambitious. Start with one piece, and go from there. * CVS sounds good, and is pretty much the industry standard. *I would not go with mySQL but would use a real database like postgres. *Mail::Sender, perl 5.6.1, Apache 1.3.19 all sound good. * Some sort of bug/tracking|project development system. (probably not this mailing list ;) Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200105050910 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.html iQA/AwUBOvP8obybkGcUlkrIEQLsJwCdHrrqVM+fcaJktkvCncaDzSnxiqIAn07j NbamMMhdiKWu6ULL+yFVA+CV =X12u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Sat May 5 09:17:54 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD217@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - OK :) J is the Project God! You go J! On a side note: a Machine would be nice... Let's see - I have an Ultra 10 running Solaris 8 with ftp/ssh/http(s) access @ work; and I have LinuxPPC 2k 4Q on an older G3 (full open, no firewall) @ home. In case not everyone knows, LinuxPPC is based upon the RedHat distro; but runs on Motorola PPC (in my case I have mostly all G3 or G4 systems...) The Solaris server is on a NMLI/10MBit connection and the LinuxPPC system is on a Cable Modem which generally gets 150KBytes incoming from the Internet and 50KBytes outgoing to the Internet. Only probably is that my home connections dies each morning and afternoon for reasons unknown. It happens around 9AM and 5PM each day and can last anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour. MediaOne (RR) (now owned by AT&T) doesn't have a clue - even though I've had techs out here 5 times :( I have to agree with Steve on several points - 1) We should target a CPAN distro (although this code will more than likely have PHP and other things in it as well.) 2) We need a bugzilla reporting system - I'll research that unless there is a favorite. 3) I myself am leaning toward Postgress, but couldn't we target both? 4) Should we use Sourceforge for the machine site? I see that SourceExchange closed down recently, but Sourceforge should be stronger than ever. 5) I feel we should decide upon initial scope, templates for site design and user interface, and let the 'specs' take care of themselves. Like I said, a project manager I'm not - as soon as things turn too businessy I run away :) 6) CVS (or something like it) would be nice - but I have never used anything like that. Sounds like we are heading toward SourceForge as they have just about everything we would need :) As far as a definition of 'stable' - in this case I mean Open Source code from Apache, Perl, PHP, et al, that the 'vendor' considers stable. Obviously we will have a moving target and we should plan upgrades etc, but long term I do not want to be too cutting edge; portability and stability may be boring but they pay the bills in the long run. The TomCat Servlet engine is about the only thing I would hazard on - as a necessary evil - to help with Whiteboard and Chat, etc... :) -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lane looks to me like the next steps are: - decide on initial scope - firm up the specs - get a machine - design the site, modules, database - start coding Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Sat May 5 10:07:34 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Licenses Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD219@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Pls review attached, as you each have time. Thx; -Sneex- :] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Licenses.html Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/jacksonville-pm/attachments/20010505/db1d4c5a/Licenses.obj From nate at campi.cc Sat May 5 13:21:02 2001 From: nate at campi.cc (Nate Campi) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project In-Reply-To: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD217@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us>; from wcjones@exchange.fccj.org on Sat, May 05, 2001 at 10:17:54AM -0400 References: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD217@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: <20010505112102.A2025@campi.cc> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Nate Campi wrote - On Sat, May 05, 2001 at 10:17:54AM -0400, JONES, WILLIAM C wrote: > On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - > > > 4) Should we use Sourceforge for the machine site? I see that > SourceExchange closed down recently, but Sourceforge should be stronger than > ever. I could donate the machine/host the project if necessary. I have two linux boxes on a fiber link that aren't going anything, both with adequate resources. It would likely offer more freedom to host it ourselves. -- Nate Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Sat May 5 19:17:06 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD21A@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - I appreciate the offer Nate, but after some consideration I feel that hosting at SourceForge would more readily allow me (and Jax.PM in general) to hand over the development reins to another PM'er or other open source developer at large. However, that is not to say we will not need many test systems to try things out on, I just feel better about the 'freedom' issue if we keep it more or less in a public venue. See https://sourceforge.net/projects/cis4dl/ In the interim, awaiting J's report, I tentatively picked 'Artistic License' - on the basis that if it's good enough for Larry Wall it good enough for us. Er, me, at any rate :) Well, I don't know about all of you, but I am getting started - plus this discussion is now going off list - I will be at SourceForge on this project - if anyone wishes to join me, please create an account at SourceForge and I'll add you to the project -- or if you wish to be an anonymous 'grantor/donor' then I would be honored and will gladly accept code in your name to place in the project. All in all, the results of the project, if any, will be available to all who may be interested in such things. Thx/Sx :] -----Original Message----- From: Nate Campi To: JONES, WILLIAM C Cc: 'jacksonville-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org' Sent: 5/5/01 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Nate Campi wrote wrote - > > > 4) Should we use Sourceforge for the machine site? I see that > SourceExchange closed down recently, but Sourceforge should be stronger than > ever. I could donate the machine/host the project if necessary. I have two linux boxes on a fiber link that aren't going anything, both with adequate resources. It would likely offer more freedom to host it ourselves. Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From sml at zfx.com Sun May 6 09:01:12 2001 From: sml at zfx.com (Steve Lane) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project References: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD217@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: <3AF55928.5BAFF524@zfx.com> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Steve Lane wrote - "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote: > The Solaris server is on a NMLI/10MBit connection and the LinuxPPC system is > on a Cable Modem which generally gets 150KBytes incoming from the Internet > and 50KBytes outgoing to the Internet. Only probably is that my home > connections dies each morning and afternoon for reasons unknown. It happens > around 9AM and 5PM each day and can last anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour. > MediaOne (RR) (now owned by AT&T) doesn't have a clue - even though I've had > techs out here 5 times :( i don't see this as a problem... if we succeed, we'll have a package that's easily installable anywhere, so the machine being occasionally down during development is ok. > 1) We should target a CPAN distro (although this code will more than likely > have PHP and other things in it as well.) i'd really rather not use php if at all possible :). even if it doesn't ever go to CPAN, having a CPAN-like bundle would be a very good thing, i think. we could probably use CPAN.pm for dependencies and stuff like that, but i don't know for sure as i've never done that. of course, this is the final stage in the project, so we don't need to hold up efforts on this, but it may affect the package file design. > 3) I myself am leaning toward Postgress, but couldn't we target both? hmm... i dunno. sounds like i need to learn postgres :). mysql is nearly standard, or at least required, for many Linux projects these days. but if postgres is that much better, definitely use it. the effort in targeting both would probably end up being a DBI wrapper module that skipped the postgres-specific methods if/when mysql was being used. but it's probably not worth the effort to support mysql. i can always do that part of it myself. all i ask is that we have a module to encapsulate all the DBI stuff. > 5) I feel we should decide upon initial scope, templates for site design > and user interface, and let the 'specs' take care of themselves. Like I > said, a project manager I'm not - as soon as things turn too businessy I run > away :) a spec has nothing to do with "businessy" and everything to do with organization... i'll be happy to do the spec. but i need at least a rough idea of what the darn thing's supposed to do first :). the "initial scope" and mockups are the lion's share of the spec, anyway. > 6) CVS (or something like it) would be nice - but I have never used > anything like that. you'll love it. -- Steve Lane Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Sun May 6 14:06:11 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD221@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Hmmm, I'm thinking ... :) We can hash out specs and templates on the cis4dl-devdis listserv I created at SourceForge. :) We shall see, I don't have to go with Postgres. MySQL would be just fine. As far as PHP, I don't see where we would be wrong -- is this supposed to be pure Perl? I believe each has it's own strengths. :) -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lane > 1) We should target a CPAN distro (although this code will more than likely > have PHP and other things in it as well.) i'd really rather not use php if at all possible :). > 3) I myself am leaning toward Postgress, but couldn't we target both? hmm... i dunno. sounds like i need to learn postgres :). mysql is nearly standard, or at least required, for many Linux projects these days. but if postgres is that much better, definitely use it. the effort in targeting both would probably end up being a DBI wrapper module that skipped the postgres-specific methods if/when mysql was being used. > 6) CVS (or something like it) would be nice - but I have never used > anything like that. you'll love it. Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 10 05:35:24 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD297@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Of course! I am a novice in many things myself - as is J, Steve, and others. Do not feel like a lone ranger! :) -Sneex- :] PS - I CC'ed the list as I feel others may have similar thoughts - Hey You People on the Jax.PM list! Get a grip! LOL :) We are all newbies in one fashoin or another! :) -----Original Message----- From: Nate Campi To: Bill Jones Sent: 5/9/01 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 05:08:38PM -0400, Bill Jones wrote: > On 5/5/01 2:21 PM, "Nate Campi" wrote: > > > On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Nate Campi wrote - > > > I could donate the machine/host the project if necessary. I have two linux > > boxes on a fiber link that aren't going anything, both with adequate > > resources. It would likely offer more freedom to host it ourselves. > > > Nate: > > Are you going to join the project? > > :) I guess I haven't really decided. I'm leaning towards it, but don't know how much I'd have to offer. Is there a place for a novice in the project? -- Nate Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From sneex at jacksonville.net Thu May 10 05:39:25 2001 From: sneex at jacksonville.net (Bill Jones) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project References: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD297@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> Message-ID: <3AFA6FDD.1162AF4@jacksonville.net> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Bill Jones wrote - "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote: > fashoin Obviously I am a newbie to 'mod_speling' - LOL :) Sx :] Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 10 06:04:09 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Jax.PM Project Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD298@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Hi all :) I've started a Concepts document at: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=4389&group_id=26707 I am RFC'ing the group :) Currently only Steve or I can edit docs for CIS4DL, but I would be happy to review and add/edit suggested additionas and/or changes for the CIS4DL Documentation Project. Thank you; -Sneex- :] Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 10 06:05:24 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: [Announce] ActiveState releases ActivePerl build 626 Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD29A@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI - -----Original Message----- From: Shantel Shave To: announce@listserv.ActiveState.com Sent: 5/9/01 7:01 PM Subject: [Announce] ActiveState releases ActivePerl build 626 ActiveState is pleased to announce the release of ActivePerl build 626, based on Perl 5.6.1. ActivePerl build 626 is available from: http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/ActivePerl/index.html This is the first release of ActivePerl based on the new maintenance release of Perl. This release is meant for use in production systems. Owing to the sheer volume of changes between Perl 5.6.0 and 5.6.1 that have been incorporated, please be sure to test build 626 thoroughly in a non-critical environment before you upgrade your production systems. Please check the perldelta.pod file in the ActivePerl documentation for a list of the major changes in Perl. Only additional changes specific to ActivePerl are mentioned here. Bug Fixes and Changes * Perl 5.6.1 has been incorporated. See perldelta for a list of changes. * The Solaris pkgadd and Red Hat RPM packages are now relocatable. See the release notes for how to install them to a location other than the default. * The following new modules have been included: HTML-Tagset v3.03 * The following modules have been updated to newer versions: SOAP-Lite, HTML-Parser v3.19, HTML-Tree v3.11, URI v1.11, libwww-perl v5.51 For additional information on module updates in Perl 5.6.1, please see perldelta. * A number of fixes to PPM have been included. PPM now displays a download status indicator, and sports a "getconfig" command. * A large number of documentation updates are included. Enjoy! -- The Activators _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce@listserv.ActiveState.com http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/listinfo/announce Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 10 09:03:09 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] [ANNOUNCEMENT] CIS4DL Project Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD29E@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - See http://cis4dl.sourceforge.net/ Thx/Sx :] -- pack('C5',(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack('c',H)-2),oct(115),10)); Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 10 17:07:57 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: O'Reilly Releases "ActionScript: The Definitive Guide" Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD2B2@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI - > ---------- > From: Denise Olliffe > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 3:35 PM > To: bill@fccj.org > Subject: O'Reilly Releases "ActionScript: The Definitive Guide" > > For immediate release > Review copies available > Please send review copy requests ONLY, to: > Marsee Henon marsee@oreilly.com > All other correspondence to Denise Olliffe at deniseo@oreilly.com > > O'REILLY PUBLISHES THE DEFINITIVE GUIDE TO ACTIONSCRIPT, > THE NEW LANGUAGE FOR FLASH PROGRAMMERS > > Given its ability to deliver high-impact experiences, even over > low-bandwidth connections, Flash has become the standard choice for > several hundred-thousand multimedia web developers worldwide. Flash 5 > now includes a new object-oriented programming language called > "ActionScript," used to control animation and multimedia within Flash. > In his just-released book, "ActionScript: The Definitive Guide" > (O'Reilly, US $39.95), author Colin Moock introduces both programmers > and non-programmers to the new language by first describing fundamental > programming concepts and then delineating in detail the components, > syntax, and usage of ActionScript. > > In spite of the predominance of Flash on the web, little has been > written about the language used to program Flash. As Moock says, "I > really felt that there just wasn't enough information on programming > Flash, despite how important it is. I also felt that many books treated > the subject too casually, with not enough academic accuracy. I wanted > to explore ActionScript in great depth, giving hardcore programmers a > solid reference to use written in a language they expect. I also wanted > to help new programmers discover the incredible world of building > programmatic systems for broad distribution over the web." > > "ActionScript: The Definitive Guide" is divided into three sections, > structured so both programmers and non-programmers can learn how to use > ActionScript. Section one, "ActionScript Fundamentals" describes > fundamental programming concepts, such as variables, loops, > conditionals, functions, arrays, event handlers, and objects. Section > two,"Applied ActionScript Code Depot" covers the more practical aspects > of creating code, like using the authoring environment, debugging, and > packaging code in external files or as smart clips. It also covers some > applied examples, such as creating online forms. The third section, > "Language Reference" is a detailed reference outlining each of > ActionScript's global functions, properties, objects, and classes. > > "Almost every entry in the reference section has a brief 'real-world' > sample, and I dissect many longer examples in the fundamentals > section," says Moock. "However, my goal was not to provide a collection > of ready-made applications. That approach can obviously be very > worthwhile, but I wanted to concentrate more on a full description of > the language. People should be able to learn to program by reading the > book, not just to customize a guest book or a mouse trailer. As I write > in the preface 'This is not a recipe book--it's a lesson in cooking > code from scratch.'" Moock provides numerous examples of code on his > companion site to the book, The ActionScript Code Depot > (http://www.moock.org/asdg/). > > Gary Grossman, creator of ActionScript, calls Moock's book, "The first > comprehensive tutorial and reference devoted entirely to the > ActionScript language... packed with up-to-date material and leaving no > feature unexplored." > > "ActionScript: the Definitive Guide" was written for serious > programmers who may not have programmed Flash before, and experienced > Flash authors who aren't programmers. Experienced programmers can > leverage their JavaScript knowledge while learning Flash-specific > intricacies, and web developers can acquire the fundamental tools for > creative advanced multimedia web sites. > > Colin Moock has been researching, designing, and developing for the web > since 1995. He is now a web evangelist for ICE Integrated > Communications & Entertainment, where he divides his time between > writing about the web, speaking at conferences, and creating > interactive content for companies like Sony, Levi's, Nortel, Air > Canada, and Hewlett-Packard. Colin's award-winning Flash work and his > renowned support site for Flash developers have made him a well-known > personality in the Flash developer community. Macromedia has officially > recognized his Flash expertise both on their web site and by appointing > him a member of their Flash Advisory Board. > > What readers have said about "ActionScript: The Definitive Guide:" > > "The best ActionScript book I have ever seen. You would be hard pressed > to find more information on ActionScript anywhere else."--Lavik Lozben, > Principal Engineer, Flash 5 > > "Colin Moock is a giant in the Flash scripting arena--one of the few > people qualified to write such a complete, authoritative reference > guide to the Macromedia Flash scripting language. He has incredible > insight into the inner-workings of ActionScript from a practical point > of view, having worked with us to help shape and refine > ActionScript."--Jeremy Clark, MarcoMedia Flash Product Manager > > "'ActionScript: The Definitive Guide' is the complete reference guide, > for beginners through to advanced users, always keep it by your > side."--Roy Evans, Flash Player Product Manager > > > Chapter 13, "Movie Clips," is available free online at: > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/actscript/chapter/ch13.html > > For more information about the book, including Table of Contents, > index, author bio, and samples, see: > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/actscript/ > > For a cover graphic in jpeg format, go to: > ftp://ftp.ora.com/pub/graphics/book_covers/hi-res/1565928520.jpg > > > ActionScript: The Definitive Guide > By Colin Moock > May 2001 > ISBN 1-56592-852-0, 720 pages, $39.95 (US) > order@oreilly.com > 1-800-998-9938 > http://www.oreilly.com > > > # # # > > O'Reilly is a registered trademark of O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. All > other trademarks are property of their respective owners. > > > > > Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Fri May 11 11:16:32 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: Apache Week issue 246 (11th May 2001) Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD2C8@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Recently a few asked me about what lists I was subscribed to. Over the next few days/weeks I will forward those that I still get and also send a few links the group memebers may be interested in. Cheers/Sx :] -----Original Message----- From: Apache Week To: apacheweek@apacheweek.com Sent: 5/11/01 10:25 AM Subject: Apache Week issue 246 (11th May 2001) This is the latest edition of Apache Week. To read this issue or any past issues, see http://www.apacheweek.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- APACHE WEEK The essential weekly guide for users of the world's most popular Web server. Issue 246: 11th May 2001 ========================== Advert =========================== Sponsored by Secant Technologies New ModelMethods Software Has WYMIWYG Capabilities! Do you write code? Do you model in UML? Now, What You Model Is What You Get (WYMIWYG). ModelMethods can automatically generate up to 80% of your Java/EJB or C++ application code from a UML model and deploy, manage and scale it on a model-driven application server. Find out more www.modelmethods.com ================================================================= In this issue * Under Development * In the news * Featured Articles Under Development A vulnerability in the Win32 and OS/2 ports of Apache 1.3 was [1]reported last month, involving requests with an extremely long string of characters in the Request-URI. Such requests could crash the server causing denial of service, but would not allow unauthorised access to data. A fix was checked in this week by William Rowe, who also proposed that 1.3.20 be released soon. This vulnerability does not affect Apache running on Unix. Talk of a new 1.3 release prompted some testing of the current code and it was found that a change made since 1.3.19 had portability problems, which were quickly fixed by Jim Jagielski. Some issues with the [2]updated ApacheBench utility were also uncovered. The APR list has seen a large amount of traffic concerning the "stackable memory system" which has been contributed to APR by members of the [3]Samba-TNG team. The code was checked in, though some group members found the volume of discussion overwhelming. The most CVS activity seen recently came in a flurry of over 30 commits in two days, as Ralf Engelschall imported the source to version 2.8.3 of mod_ssl into the Apache 2.0 CVS tree and began the process of porting the code to Apache 2.0 and APR. In the news Apache has multiple nominations for JavaWorld awards Two Apache Software Foundation projects have been chosen as finalists in the 2001 [4]JavaWorld Editors' Choice Awards. Tomcat has been nominated for the "Most Innovative Java Product", and Xalan-Java has been selected for the "Best Java-XML Technology". Winners will be announced in June this year. Back in 1999, the JServ servlet engine won JavaWorld Readers' Choice Awards "Best Free Product". E-Soft release new Apache module report E-Soft have updated their [5]Apache Module report. This report gives a breakdown of the popular add-on modules for Apache and gives the percentage of Apache sites the module is found on. What makes this report even more interesting is that for each module there is a complete history of penetration rates spanning nearly three years. Meanwhile, their April 2001 [6]secure web server survey found that Apache (and Apache-based servers) still power over 60% of all secure sites. Featured articles In this section we highlight some of the articles on the web that are of interest to Apache users. Information Security Magazine presents an article on [7]improving Apache and a [8]case study on companies that swear by (not at) Apache in its April issue. It starts off by refuting the mindset that running Apache guarantees security although it readily admits that Apache deserves its reputation for being a secure Web server. Then it provides the steps for installing Apache and mod_ssl, securing the underlying Linux server, and testing Web applications for vulnerabilities. [9]"Setting up Apache with mySQL, Frontpage 2000 Extensions, and PHP NHF" is a Newbieized Help File (NHF) written by Dallas Engelken for newbies to get Apache up and running with Frontpage support in no time at all. At first glance, it may seem pointless to generate dynamic PDFs but John Coggeshall discovers that the PDF features of PHP can be implemented in all sorts of ways to make Web sites more efficient. Read about it in [10]"Creating PDF Files in PHP". ______________________________________________________________ Comments or criticisms? Please email us at [11]editors@apacheweek.com. [12]Apache Week is copyright 1996-2001 by [13]Red Hat, Inc. References 1. http://bugs.apache.org/index.cgi/full/7522 2. http://www.apacheweek.com/issues/01-04-20#dev 3. http://www.samba-tng.org/ 4. http://www.javaworld.com/jw-05-2001/jw-0504-finalists.html 5. http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/man.200104/apachemods.html 6. https://secure1.securityspace.com/cgi-bin/session/docserv?doc=/s_ssurvey /data/index.html 7. http://www.infosecuritymag.com/articles/april01/features1_web_server_sec .shtml 8. http://www.infosecuritymag.com/articles/april01/features1_web_server_sec .shtml#case_study 9. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/webserving/a_m_f1.html 10. http://www.zend.com/zend/spotlight/creatingpdfmay1.php 11. mailto:editors@apacheweek.com 12. http://www.apacheweek.com/ 13. http://www.redhat.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To stop receiving Apache Week, send a message to majordomo@apacheweek.com containing the text unsubscribe apacheweek Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Fri May 11 11:37:17 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] [NON-PERL] FW: Interesting OSX article from O'Reilly Network Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD2CE@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI - [NON-PERL Posting/Sx] -----Original Message----- From: Denise Olliffe To: bill@fccj.org Sent: 5/11/01 12:12 PM Subject: Interesting OSX article from O'Reilly Network Article I thought you'd find interesting... Mac OS X appeals to laptop users because of its networking flexibility and fast start from sleep. And as good as Mac OS X is on a desktop Mac, it's even better on a PowerBook or iBook because of its advantages in wireless environments. In this two-part series, O'Reilly Network Managing Editor Derrick Story describes how users can migrate to Mac OS X without descending into computing hell. He includes step-by-step instructions plus complete recommendations for hardware. I thought the series would interest you. Notable quote: "You can't afford to go off and have some wild OS fling just for the fun of it. If you're going to upgrade, then it has to work." The Disaster-Free Upgrade to Mac OS X by Derrick Story * 5/1/01 http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2001/05/01/macosx_upgrade.html The Disaster-Free Upgrade to Mac OS X -- Part 2 by Derrick Story * 5/8/01 http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2001/05/08/macosx_upgrade.html Mac DevCenter on O'Reilly Network http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/ http://www.oreillynet.com --Denise Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Fri May 11 21:39:07 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: UNIX BASIC COMMANDS Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD2FB@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Does anyone on this list know of any good sites? Re: Below msg(s)... Thx/Sx :] -----Original Message----- From: HOOKFIN, LILLIE R To: JONES, WILLIAM C Sent: 4/29/01 9:19 PM Subject: RE: UNIX BASIC COMMANDS Thanks. I thought you forgot about me. I take a basic unix test on Tuesday morning. Wish me luck. I will review these sites. Thanks again. LRH -----Original Message----- From: JONES, WILLIAM C Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 6:49 AM To: HOOKFIN, LILLIE R Subject: RE: UNIX BASIC COMMANDS The bignosebird is OK, and you may wish to see these - (Found using: http://www.google.com/search?q=Basic+Unix+Commands ) http://www.mesagroup.com/html/unix_commands.html http://www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/unix/unix_cmd.html http://doors.stanford.edu/~sr/computing/basic-unix.html PS - I found about 415,000 web pages, so I didn't list them all here... HTH/Bill :) -----Original Message----- From: HOOKFIN, LILLIE R To: JONES, WILLIAM C Sent: 4/17/01 7:51 AM Subject: UNIX BASIC COMMANDS Please review and advise if this is a good site. http://bignosebird.com/unix.shtml Many thanks for your help. Ms. Lillie R. Hookfin Deerwood Center Learner Support Center (904)632-3151 Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From sneex at jacksonville.net Fri May 11 23:16:34 2001 From: sneex at jacksonville.net (Bill Jones) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] CIS4DL Project Message-ID: <3AFCB922.A7DDFF70@jacksonville.net> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Bill Jones wrote - I know a few of you had expressed an interest in helping out on this p;roject, but were concerned it would be over your head. Steve and I (currently the only project developers) do have a need for non-technical help; therefore I respectfully submit this request for non-technical input and support. See: https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=4389&group_id=26707 I also tried to contact the JaxLug group here in Jax, Fl, but they appear to be in hibernation. Maybe they are really the Jax Hacker group I recently heard was trying to take on that Chinese hacker group which threatened the US over the sub/fishing boat incident? Anyone hear anything about that? ???/Sx :] Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Fri May 11 23:50:00 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] CIS4DL Project Help Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD307@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Hi all :) Also, as a follow-up, I will be posting Project Help Wanted bulletins at: https://sourceforge.net/people/viewjob.php?group_id=26707&job_id=3324 the Sourceforge site; if interested please check there. OK, I promise to stop pestering everyone now, I know this is supposed to be a 'lurk only' mailing list! Thx/Sx :] ------------------------------- http://cis4dl.sourceforge.net/ Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Sat May 12 00:15:57 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] China hackers Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD309@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - I did find: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_1322000/1322839.s tm If anyone was interested... Sx :] Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Wed May 16 14:36:17 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: YAPC::N::A - Perl Apprenticeship "Hour" Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD383@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI - > ---------- > From: Adam Turoff > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:07 PM > To: groups@lists.pm.org > Subject: YAPC::N::A - Perl Apprenticeship "Hour" > > Have a few interesting Perl projects on your TODO list that you > probably won't get to this year? Looking for a way to contribute > to the Perl Community? Want to work with a Perl Guru and improve > your knowledge of Perl? > > Then come to this year's Perl Apprenticeship "Hour". > > Adam Turoff will be hosting a 45 minute session at YAPC::America::North > this June for Perlfolk to present ideas for interesting Perl projects > that probably won't get done without some extra help. Projects > may include things like: > > * documentation * tools > * tutorials * bugfixes > * modules * enhancements to existing code > * websites * collaborative efforts > * test code * program suites > > Presenters will have five minutes to offer a project to the community > under one of the following terms: > > - Free for all > > Here's a cool idea. Do something with it if you want, it's yours. > > > - Apprenticeship > > Here's an neat idea. I don't have time to implement it. If you > understand the basics, then I encourage you to do something with it. > I'll be available to answer your questions on this project. > > > - Flash of Brilliance > > Here's an interesting project. If you understand what needs to be > done, then please do something with it. After today, I cannot > answer your questions. > > > - Handoff > > Here's an worthwhile project. If you understand what needs to be > done, then let's discuss it so I can hand the project over to you. > After that, I cannot answer your questions. > > If you have some projects you would like to offer for the Perl > Apprenticeship > Hour, please send a brief project summary to , including > the how you will offer the project to the community. You are encouraged > to submit multiple projects. > > > **Majordomo list services provided by PANIX ** > **To Unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe groups" to majordomo@lists.pm.org** > > Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Wed May 23 18:36:07 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] OT: Open Source News Ticker Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD452@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI - -----Original Message----- From: Denise Olliffe To: bill@fccj.org Sent: 5/23/01 7:23 PM Subject: Open Source News Ticker Open Source is Here to Stay...Tim O'Reilly writes that this year's O'Reilly Open Source Convention and Perl Conference 5 is broader and deeper than ever before, with 250 sessions in 14 tracks that cover Linux, Apache, Perl, Python, PHP, MySQL, and more. Get the lowdown on the highlights at http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/tim_letter.html Tim O'Reilly Responds to Andrew Leonard on the Demise of Eazel...Andrew Leonard's gloomy comments on Salon about the demise of Eazel reflect many misconceptions and false assumptions, which Tim challenges. To learn more about the real business successes of the open source movement and why it has become a major force in enterprise computing, go to: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/342 Long Live Perl...The June 2001 issue of Fast Company calls Perl one of the "best-of-the-best innovations - technologies that set the business agenda". It is listed as one of the ubiquitous technologies of the information age along with the bar code, the .signature file, the lab mouse, the catalytic converter and the Hertz #1 Club Gold program. For the full story, see, http://www.fastcompany.com/online/47/agendaitems.html Bioinformatics and Open Source Software? Read an interview with Cynthia Gibas and Per Jambeck, the authors of O'Reilly's recently released "Developing Bioinformatics Computer Skills," at http://www.oreilly.com/news/bioint_0501.html Discuss the latest issues in bioinformatics, including privacy, peer-to-peer computing, and open source software at the O'Reilly Open Source Convention. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/w/os2001/sessions_open.h tml "Fuel the Open Source Alternative" and share with your group these news updates about the O'Reilly Open Source Convention. July 23-27, 2001, Sheraton San Diego Hotel in San Diego, California http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ Register by June 22, 2001, and take advantage of the User Group discount of 20 % off "Early Bird" pricing for conference sessions and tutorials. After June 22nd, discount will be applied to standard pricing. Register Online http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/register.html Or by Phone: 800-998-9938 With Code DSUG. -- Denise Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From sneex at jacksonville.net Wed May 23 22:45:42 2001 From: sneex at jacksonville.net (Bill Jones) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Learn.perl.com site content? Message-ID: On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er Bill Jones wrote - Hi! I am interested in helping :) Pls let me know what tasks you have out-standing that you need assistance on and I see if I have the Perl knowledge to help :) Also, I am interested in advertising for help from those beginners who may want to get their feet wet in a non-stressful but fun project. Pls see http://cis4dl.sf.net/ It is brand-new and looking for interested participants :) Thx/Sneex :] ------------- Jax.PM Leader Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Wed May 23 22:58:18 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] FW: Perl.com Newsletter: Taking Lessons From Traffic Lights Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD453@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI (another list I get, if anyone is interested...) -----Original Message----- From: Perl Newsletter To: Perl Newsletter Sent: 5/23/01 6:24 PM Subject: Perl.com Newsletter: Taking Lessons From Traffic Lights www.perl.com update -------------------------------------- The Email for www.perl.com Subscribers ============================================================ Sponsored by Macromedia, Creators of ColdFusion Problems meeting tight deadlines? ColdFusion 4.5, the leading Web app server, has the solution with an integrated suite of visual tools, powerful server technology, and an open language environment. Download your FREE evaluation copy today at http://www.oreillynet.com/nlr/network/04/allaire/coldfusion ============================================================ Hello, world. This is Simon Cozens, www.perl.com managing editor, stepping in to write the perl.com newsletter this week. It's been quite a busy week for Perl, so without further ado, let's see what's been happening. * Perl at large. A few weeks ago, I reported on the establishment of a mailing list for Perl beginners - beginners@perl.org. From what I hear, it's been extremely successful, with 1300 messages coming in last month. We'll be bringing you a lot more about the beginners list in our featured article next week. This week, Casey West, the founder of the list, and Ask Bjorn Hansen, the curator of perl.org, announced a "daily tips" mailing list. If you subscribe to this list by sending an email to daily-tips-subscribe@perl.org, you'll receive a handy Perl programming tip in your inbox every day. They've also been working on a web site for tutorials and beginners' articles about Perl: http://learn.perl.org/ Currently, there's not much there, other than the FAQ for the mailing list: http://learn.perl.org/beginners-faq But they're looking for people to add content. If you think you could contribute a tutorial or guidance, why not subscribe to their workers mailing list - send mail to beginners-workers@perl.org - and help out? As announced in the Perl Journal, the 2nd Annual Perl Poetry Contest is under way. As before, there are four major categories: "porting" a favourite poem or song lyric to Perl; writing a Perl program which performs a useful task; writing a poetry-writing program (which may itself be a poem); a haiku, (5-7-5) tanka (5-7-5-7-7) or limerick relating to Perl. The judge this year is Kevin Meltzer, and entries are invited by July the 1st. Full instructions for submitting entries will appear shortly on http://www.tpj.com/ Finally, our resident Perl historian, Elaine Ashton, noticed that Fast Company Magazine (http://www.fastcompany.com) has declared Perl one of the "best-of-the-best" innovations of the information age. She's scanned the relevant page and put it on http://history.perl.org/misc/overthehump.html * What's new on www.perl.com? As well as being a busy week for Perl, it's been a busy week for us here at perl.com. Firstly, I've temporarily handed over the reins of the perl5-porters summaries to the ever energetic Leon Brocard, who's given us this week's summary. If you want to know more about the proposed Perl Legal FAQ, internationalising the Perl interpreter, resuscitation attempts on pseudohashes and much more, get yourself over to http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/p5pdigest/THISWEEK-20010520.html The Perl 6 Summaries live! Bryan Warnock has done a sterling job catching up on the past three weeks worth of activity on the various perl6-* lists. This is particularly impressive since there was so much going on - there have been around 800 messages so far this month, mainly in response to Larry and Damian's articles on the design of Perl 6. http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/p6pdigest/THISWEEK-20010501.html Our feature article this week comes from Michael Schwern, Perl's very own Kwalitee Assurance man. One of the ideas tossed around for Perl 6 has been to rename the method call operator ("->") to ".". Of course, this causes a problem - what do we now call string concatenation? While watching perl6-language tie itself in all sorts of knots trying to come up with a substitute, Michael stepped back and had a long think about language design. His article details his train of thought as he examines how people think about signs and semantics in general and the semantics of computer languages in particular, all told through the metaphor of traffic lights. It's a very thoughtful and ingenious piece, which I would consider essential reading for anyone who wants to be involved in the work of helping to design Perl 6. You can find it at: http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/22/trafficlights.html My predecessor Mark-Jason Dominus has written an article for one of our sister publications, the O'Reilly Network, in his popular "Red Flags and Program Repair Shop" series. Mark will give a tutorial on that very topic at this year's Perl Conference. His article is at: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2001/05/18/perl_redflags.html He's also released a preview of the tutorial on his web site, at: http://perl.plover.com/yak/flags/preview/ You can also find out more details about the seven (yes, seven!) talks he'll be giving at the Perl Conference from: http://perl.plover.com/yak/tpc2001.html And with that, I should get back to preparing my talks for the Perl Conference! SC ============================================================ The 3rd O'Reilly Open Source Convention, July 23-27, 2001 Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina Fueling the Open Source Alternative The Perl Conference 5, XTech2001 Conference on XML (in association with GCA), the 8th Tcl/Tk Conference, the 1st Conference on PHP - 14 tracks keep you informed on the latest innovations - Register by June 22 and Save http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ ============================================================ Taking Lessons From Traffic Lights http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/22/trafficlights.html?wwwrrr_20010522.tx t Michael Schwern examines traffic lights and shows what lessons applied to the development of Perl 6. Exegesis 2 http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/08/exegesis2.html?wwwrrr_20010522.txt Having trouble visualizing how the approved RFC's for Perl 6 will translate into actual Perl code? Damian Conway provides an exegesis to Larry Wall's Apocalypse 2 and reveals what the code will look like. Off The Wall: Larry Wall: Apocalypse Two http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/03/wall.html?wwwrrr_20010522.txt Larry Wall produces the next episode in his series of "Apocalypses": glimpses into the design of Perl 6. This week, he explains how Perl 6 will differ from Perl 5 in terms of chapter 2 of the Camel Book: fundamental data types, variables and the context and scoping of the language. Reversing Regular Expressions http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/01/expressions.html?wwwrrr_20010522.txt There are some cases where searching a regular expression is faster backwards. Pete Sergeant introduces us to sexegers, regular expressions (regexes) operating in reverse. ============================================================ Sponsored by Thawte ** FREE Apache SSL Guide from Thawte ** Planning Web Server Security? Find out how to implement SSL! Get the free Thawte Apache SSL Guide and find the answers to all your Apache SSL security issues and more at: http://www.thawte.com/ucgi/gothawte.cgi?a=n122531080018000 ============================================================ Sister Sites: --------------------------------- O'Reilly Network http://www.oreillynet.com The Source for Open and Emerging Technologies XML.com http://xml.com/ XML from the inside out. ONLamp.com http://onlamp.com O'Reilly Network's High Performance Web Development site O'Reilly and Associates http://www.oreilly.com/ O'Reilly computer books, software and online publishing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to cancel a subscription to this newsletter, send an email to perl-unsubscribe@paprika.oreillynet.com NOTE: Please make certain to unsubscribe from the email address at which you receive this message For non-automated human help email elists-admin@oreillynet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 24 05:13:53 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] sh 2 Perl conversion ... Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD454@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Hi All :) I found a shell script on the Net, it works OK; but I thought someone on this list may see if it could be converted to Perl (yes, I know I could do it myself, but I thought it would be a good exercise for the various Jax.PM members here :) I posted it to: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=4693&group_id=26707 Also, I am seeking RFC to see if it could be improved - all comments welcome :) Anyhow, I am making it part of the CIS4DL project as systems monitoring and performance tuning are an important part of running courseware delivery systems. Best/Sx :] Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Thu May 24 19:29:48 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] OT: O'Reilly Releases "Python Standard Library" Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD45B@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - FYI - [Non-Perl] -Sneex- :] -----Original Message----- From: Denise Olliffe To: bill@fccj.org Sent: 5/24/01 6:55 PM Subject: O'Reilly Releases "Python Standard Library" For Immediate Release May 24, 2001 Review copies available FYI: While Denise Olliffe is away from the office, please send review copy requests ONLY to Marsee Henon at marsee@oreilly.com. All other correspondence should go to Denise Olliffe at deniseo@oreilly.com. THREE THOUSAND QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS SHOW WHAT PYTHON PROGRAMMERS REALLY WANT Python expert Fredrik Lundh has spent hundreds of hours in recent years answering questions posted by programmers on the popular Python newsgroup, comp.lang.python. Python, known for its clean syntax and object orientation, is a modular language that imports most useful functions from the extensive library of programming modules that is distributed with the language. These modules are a collection of commonly used procedures that can be pasted into a Python script rather than written from scratch. In his just-released book, "Python Standard Library," (O'Reilly, US $29.95), Lundh provides tested, accurate documentation of all the modules in the Python Standard Library, along with more than 300 annotated example scripts using the modules, based on the author's work with thousands of questions and answers from the Python newsgroup. "Python Standard Library" distills the best parts from over 3,000 newsgroup messages. As Lundh explains in the preface of his book, "Maybe someone found a module that might be exactly what he wanted, but he couldn't really figure out how to use it. Maybe someone had picked the wrong module for the task. Or maybe someone tried to reinvent the wheel. Often, a short sample script could be much more helpful than a pointer to the reference documentation." Lundh's specialty is providing short sample scripts that demonstrate the use of a module in a way that programmers can understand. Lundh explains, "I've worked hard to make the scripts both understandable and adaptable. I've intentionally kept the annotations as short as possible. If you want more background, there's plenty of reference material shipped with most Python distributions. In this book, the emphasis is on the code." Lundh's book is a no-nonsense, no-fluff reference work for the serious Python programmer. "Python Standard Library" documents all the new modules and related information for Python 2.0, the first new major release of Python in four years, including: --All major forms of data representation --Support for threads and pipes --All important file formats, including XML and HTML --Support for major Internet applications like mail (MIME) and news --Database and persistent storage Fredrik Lundh, an active member of the Python community and a frequent contributor to the Python newsgroups, is an expert on the use of Python with images and graphics and is the creator of the Python Imaging Library (PIL). Lundh is a principal of Secret Labs, Inc. the creators of PythonWorks, and integrated development environment (IDE) for Python. Chapter 5, "File Formats," is available free online at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonsl/chapter/ch05.html For more information about the book, including Table of Contents, index, author bio, and samples, see: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonsl/index.html For a cover graphic in jpeg format, go to: ftp://ftp.ora.com/pub/graphics/book_covers/hi-res/0596000960.jpg Registration has opened for O'Reilly's Open Source Convention in San Diego, July 23-27, 2001. For more information, see: http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ And for specific Python tutorials and sessions, see: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/python_tutorials.html http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/w/os2001/sessions_python .html Python Standard Library By Fredrik Lundh May 2001 ISBN 0-596-00096-0, 281 pages, $29.95 (US) order@oreilly.com 1-800-998-9938 http://www.oreilly.com # # # O'Reilly is a registered trademark of O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Sat May 26 16:50:28 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] Doc Editor ... Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD476@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Hi All :) Nancy Brown has agreed to be Doc Editor for the CIS4DL project on SourceForge; let's all welcome her (I hope Nancy joins the Jax.PM group as well :) See http://sourceforge.net/people/viewjob.php?group_id=26707&job_id=3324 Also, Steve Lane has assumed duties in Requirements Engineering; et al. All of us, Nancy, Steve and I are listed for Feature Submissions - so if any of you have ideas - please let one of use know :) To submit a feature request, see: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=26707&atid=388136 There are still plenty of things to do in the planning stages; see http://sourceforge.net/docman/?group_id=26707 Thx; -Sneex- :] Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments... From wcjones at exchange.fccj.org Sat May 26 22:42:44 2001 From: wcjones at exchange.fccj.org (JONES, WILLIAM C) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:02:45 2004 Subject: [JaxPM] RE: From Blanding Blvd Message-ID: <3037C11AF59BD411B47600D0B72CE74801ECD477@exchmail.fccj.cc.fl.us> On the jacksonville-pm-list; Jax.PM'er "JONES, WILLIAM C" wrote - Hmmm... :| Well, other than THAT IS A REALLY BAD IDEA - your web server probably doesn't have enough write premissions to create files in your CGI-BIN. The cgi-bin is prolly owned by root - which is the secure way - if it is owned by a regular userID, then that is not as secure, but still likely better than allow the ID the server runs as access. I would suggest you purchase Apache Server Administrator's Handbook, ISBN: 0-7645-3301-1 and you may want to get the Official Guide to Programming with CGI.pm, ISBN: 0-471-24744-8 and/or CGI Programming with Perl, ISBN: 1-56592-419-3. Each book is about $30... PS - I teach CGS2283 at FCCJ - you may want to sign-up in the Fall. See http://www.fccj.org/catalog/cd/CGS/CGS2283.html Also, you should join Jax.PM the web page explains how to get on the list; the members there can explain how this is a really bad idea as well :) See http://web.fccj.org/~wcjones/Jax.PM.org/ The Mailing List section states: "Interested parties can subscribe to the Jacksonville.PM mailing list for news and information about the group. Send an e-mail message to majordomo@hfb.pm.org with a single line of text that says subscribe jacksonville-pm-list in the body. Once you are subscribed, you can post questions, ideas, and other tidbits of information relevant to perl, mongering, and related activities to the list. The posting address is: jacksonville-pm-list@hfb.pm.org ... " To answer your question about 'With Out' using SYSTEM() - that too is a bad idea. Using system() is one of the better things to do. The alternative is back-quotes which are VERY bad - about the same as allowing a web browser to write in your cgi-bin... HTH; -Sneex- :] -----Original Message----- From: SEBASTIAN GLANZER To: jax@jacksonville.pm.org Sent: 5/26/01 10:35 PM Subject: From Blanding Blvd Importance: High Hey Perl addicts: I was surfing the net for some kind of a website offering perl assitance, and I stumbled into your page. I didnt know there was a perl group, right here in Jax... neither I know if you offer assitance, but perhaps you can help me. Im a webmaster trying to learn Perl, and although I've checked several books i cannot seem to find the solution to a small perl problem. I would like to untar a tar.gz file in my cgi-bin, not via telnet but through a few lines of code. I was suggested using system as follows. #!/usr/bin/perl print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; system("tar xvfz template.tar.gz"); print "Done, your file is untared\n"; If I use tar xvfz template.tar.gz it works, but through the script it doesnt. Is there a way to do this without using system..??? I hope you can help Regards Sebastian Jax.PM Moderator's Note: This message was posted to the Jacksonville Perl Monger's Group listserv. The group manager can be reached at -- owner-jacksonville-pm-list@pm.org to whom send all praises, complaints, or comments...