From gwadej at anomaly.org  Fri Jan  2 15:30:09 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:30:09 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Meeting
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:42:43 -0600
"Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:

> RRD sounds interesting to me.
> 
> I'm now an official eclipse (with epic) junkie so I rarely use
> terminal editors. How long would the vim chat be? Can it be sandwiched
> in on the end?

Of course, we could always do a meeting on editors.<grin type="evil"/>

* Why do you use Eclipse/epic?
* Any particularly powerful/useful features that make your Perl
  development easier?

Maybe everyone could bring a couple of cool tricks for their favorite
editor.

Just a thought.
G. Wade
-- 
You forgot the first rule of the fanatic: when you become obsessed with
the enemy, you become the enemy.      -- Jeffrey Sinclair in "Infection"

From toddr at null.net  Sat Jan  3 10:27:36 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:27:36 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>

> Of course, we could always do a meeting on editors.<grin type="evil"/>
>
> * Why do you use Eclipse/epic?
> * Any particularly powerful/useful features that make your Perl
>  development easier?
>
> Maybe everyone could bring a couple of cool tricks for their favorite
> editor.
>
> Just a thought.
> G. Wade

I'd be happy to present on Epic I think Will is also experimenting
with epic. There's also Adam Kennedy's Pure Perl Editor. I haven't had
a chance to look at it but I know it exists.

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sun Jan  4 11:15:57 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:15:57 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:27:36 -0600
"Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:

> > Of course, we could always do a meeting on editors.<grin
> > type="evil"/>
> >
> > * Why do you use Eclipse/epic?
> > * Any particularly powerful/useful features that make your Perl
> >  development easier?
> >
> > Maybe everyone could bring a couple of cool tricks for their
> > favorite editor.

Quick survey for everyone on the list.

What editor do you use for Perl (or any) programming?

1. vi (or variants)
2. emacs (or variants)
3. Eclipse
4. Komodo
5. Visual Studio
6. Notepad
7. TextMate
8. others?

Let us know what editor you use and the feature that you think makes it
a good choice for you.

G. Wade
-- 
"Very sad life. Probably also have sad death. But at least there is
symmetry."                                                -- Zathras

From toddr at null.net  Sun Jan  4 15:24:31 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 17:24:31 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901041524h1704e47fo5f8aa4bc64aacccb@mail.gmail.com>

> What editor do you use for Perl (or any) programming?
>
> 1. vi (or variants)
Too unintuitive but always available. I don't consider that a good
reason to become an expert or re-wire my brain to properly use it.

> 2. Emacs (or variants)
My default UNIX editor. Only a few critical commands are obscure. The
rest are as expected. Has syntax hilighting and indentation help, but
these don't always work consistently and can be difficult to install
without root.

> 3. Eclipse
Offers live code analysis (tells me when I miss a semi-colon, etc.)
Sometimes a little slow on large code bases. Also offers remote
editing via FTP plugin. It's pretty much a java app, so it's a little
slow and awkward sometimes.

> 4. Komodo
Many of the features I like are available here, but I find Komodo slow
to come up and somewhat buggy. Not to mention the expen$ive price for
the app. 1 thing I've never found a replacement for in Komodo is it's
regex debugger tool. Makes complex regex analysis much easier.

> 5. Visual Studio
Not Perl friendly to my knowledge.

> 6. Notepad
Stop talkin crazy. *grin*

> 7. TextMate
No.

8. Crimson Editor
Free. Fast (windows native exe). Easy to use. Allows remote editing
(via FTP). Syntax hilighting. Easy to get on a PC in a pinch.

9. Notetab
Freebie windows app. Has some neat search and replace (via regex)
features I find indispensable sometimes. Often I can do data
translation faster in it than cranking out code.

From robo4288 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 16:10:52 2009
From: robo4288 at gmail.com (Robert Boone)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:10:52 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
Message-ID: <435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>

> Quick survey for everyone on the list.
>
> What editor do you use for Perl (or any) programming?

I'm going to do this in the order that I've used them.

1. In 2001 I started using vim. It was the first text editor that I
ever truly enjoyed using.
2. In 2005 I started using TextMate. It had the one thing I was
missing from vim. The ability to script the editor in any language I
wanted. I didn't care for vimscript.
3. 7 months ago I started using emacs. I love elisp. I love the idea
that it's not just a programmer's editor but an editor of any text
based environment.

As far as programing perl goes, any of the above editors work for me.
But vim and emacs edge out textmate just because they can run in
multiple operating systems.

As you can tell I don't really care for IDE's, for me they mostly get
in the way. I would rather build a working environment in an editor
that let me do that in the way I think is best for me.


robert

From toddr at null.net  Sun Jan  4 16:26:56 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:26:56 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Robert Boone <robo4288 at gmail.com> wrote:
> As you can tell I don't really care for IDE's, for me they mostly get
> in the way. I would rather build a working environment in an editor
> that let me do that in the way I think is best for me.

I've gotta admit I'm surprised how many people feel a lack of interest
in access to IDEs. I find IDEs help me program/debug faster, as they
point out errors to me as I commit them, rather than 10+ minutes later
when I go to run the code. Usually there's little difference between
fixing the error before or after, but every once in a while, the
mistake is subtle enough that you end up spending much more time down
the road trying to figure out what tidbit of the code went wrong.

 I wonder... If Emacs/vim came with an IDE,  would you use and
appreciate it more? Both of your choices have their origins as
terminal editors. As a result, they do not readily lend themselves to
being an IDE. So I guess my question is whether this an accessibility
issue or truly it holds no value for you?

Another thing occurs to me, which is we might not have a consistent
definition of "IDE" here. Most of these apps offer some features of an
IDE. The major one for me is code analysis, but it occurs to me that
syntax hilighting, etc. would also be components of an IDE, which
would make everything but Notepad an IDE :D

Todd

From robo4288 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 17:17:58 2009
From: robo4288 at gmail.com (Robert Boone)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:17:58 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D29E3587-6A9C-41E8-86FF-1900B335482C@gmail.com>


	I think you are making the assumption that we have never used IDE's.  
I used to be a borland language
junkie. I used Turbo Pascal, Turbo C++ and Borland C++ and their  
respective IDE's. It's not that I don't
like some of the features of an IDE, but I prefer to setup my  
environment differently than most IDE's. I've
been toying with Devel::PerlySense for a few weeks. It has lots of  
features that an IDE would have with out
giving up the freedom to change the functionality as the situation  
changes or just as I learn more about
programming.

	Who knows, one day someone may write an IDE that works for me. But so  
far that hasn't happened.

:)


Robert




On Jan 4, 2009, at 6:26 PM, Todd Rinaldo wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Robert Boone <robo4288 at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> As you can tell I don't really care for IDE's, for me they mostly get
>> in the way. I would rather build a working environment in an editor
>> that let me do that in the way I think is best for me.
>
> I've gotta admit I'm surprised how many people feel a lack of interest
> in access to IDEs. I find IDEs help me program/debug faster, as they
> point out errors to me as I commit them, rather than 10+ minutes later
> when I go to run the code. Usually there's little difference between
> fixing the error before or after, but every once in a while, the
> mistake is subtle enough that you end up spending much more time down
> the road trying to figure out what tidbit of the code went wrong.
>
> I wonder... If Emacs/vim came with an IDE,  would you use and
> appreciate it more? Both of your choices have their origins as
> terminal editors. As a result, they do not readily lend themselves to
> being an IDE. So I guess my question is whether this an accessibility
> issue or truly it holds no value for you?
>
> Another thing occurs to me, which is we might not have a consistent
> definition of "IDE" here. Most of these apps offer some features of an
> IDE. The major one for me is code analysis, but it occurs to me that
> syntax hilighting, etc. would also be components of an IDE, which
> would make everything but Notepad an IDE :D
>
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/


From kjordan3 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 17:22:31 2009
From: kjordan3 at gmail.com (Kevin Jordan)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:22:31 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <D29E3587-6A9C-41E8-86FF-1900B335482C@gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<D29E3587-6A9C-41E8-86FF-1900B335482C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aca786350901041722q3e6f0037q423f4f759c3526fc@mail.gmail.com>

vim

i tried to learn emacs, but it hurt my head.  probably just didn't try it
long enough

-Kevin

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Robert Boone <robo4288 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>        I think you are making the assumption that we have never used IDE's.
> I used to be a borland language
> junkie. I used Turbo Pascal, Turbo C++ and Borland C++ and their respective
> IDE's. It's not that I don't
> like some of the features of an IDE, but I prefer to setup my environment
> differently than most IDE's. I've
> been toying with Devel::PerlySense for a few weeks. It has lots of features
> that an IDE would have with out
> giving up the freedom to change the functionality as the situation changes
> or just as I learn more about
> programming.
>
>        Who knows, one day someone may write an IDE that works for me. But
> so far that hasn't happened.
>
> :)
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2009, at 6:26 PM, Todd Rinaldo wrote:
>
>  On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Robert Boone <robo4288 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As you can tell I don't really care for IDE's, for me they mostly get
>>> in the way. I would rather build a working environment in an editor
>>> that let me do that in the way I think is best for me.
>>>
>>
>> I've gotta admit I'm surprised how many people feel a lack of interest
>> in access to IDEs. I find IDEs help me program/debug faster, as they
>> point out errors to me as I commit them, rather than 10+ minutes later
>> when I go to run the code. Usually there's little difference between
>> fixing the error before or after, but every once in a while, the
>> mistake is subtle enough that you end up spending much more time down
>> the road trying to figure out what tidbit of the code went wrong.
>>
>> I wonder... If Emacs/vim came with an IDE,  would you use and
>> appreciate it more? Both of your choices have their origins as
>> terminal editors. As a result, they do not readily lend themselves to
>> being an IDE. So I guess my question is whether this an accessibility
>> issue or truly it holds no value for you?
>>
>> Another thing occurs to me, which is we might not have a consistent
>> definition of "IDE" here. Most of these apps offer some features of an
>> IDE. The major one for me is code analysis, but it occurs to me that
>> syntax hilighting, etc. would also be components of an IDE, which
>> would make everything but Notepad an IDE :D
>>
>> Todd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Houston mailing list
>> Houston at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From mikeflan at att.net  Sun Jan  4 18:23:18 2009
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:23:18 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20901041524h1704e47fo5f8aa4bc64aacccb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901041524h1704e47fo5f8aa4bc64aacccb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49616F16.8010100@att.net>


Todd Rinaldo wrote:
>> What editor do you use for Perl (or any) programming?
>>     
snip
>> 8. Crimson Editor
>> Free. Fast (windows native exe). Easy to use. Allows remote editing
>> (via FTP). Syntax hilighting. Easy to get on a PC in a pinch.
>>     

I was using MED, which was not working out real
good for me.  It's not too bad, but selecting text
did not work the way I expected it to, so it was
kinda difficult to work with.  I have suffered with
this for a long long time.  I have never heard of
anybody else using MED for anything.  Every time
I mention it, nobody else has heard of it.

I just changed to Crimson Editor due to the writeup
by Todd.  So far I like it.


Mike Flannigan



From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sun Jan  4 19:02:03 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:02:03 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:26:56 -0600
"Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Robert Boone <robo4288 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > As you can tell I don't really care for IDE's, for me they mostly
> > get in the way. I would rather build a working environment in an
> > editor that let me do that in the way I think is best for me.
> 
> I've gotta admit I'm surprised how many people feel a lack of interest
> in access to IDEs. I find IDEs help me program/debug faster, as they
> point out errors to me as I commit them, rather than 10+ minutes later
> when I go to run the code. Usually there's little difference between
> fixing the error before or after, but every once in a while, the
> mistake is subtle enough that you end up spending much more time down
> the road trying to figure out what tidbit of the code went wrong.

I've used IDEs, including the Borland environments, Programmer's
WorkBench (the IDE before Visual Studio), Forte, Visual Studio,
NetBeans, and Eclipse.

For editors, I've used M, ted, vim, TextMate, and edit. M and vim are
the only two that had good enough macro and/or scripting capabilities
to suit me.

Honestly, I've never found that the IDE helps me program or debug
faster. I suspect that it has more to do with a programmer's approach to
code and way of thinking. Most IDEs seem too heavyweight to me. Most
IDEs also don't support the programability that I find comfortable in a
programmer editor.

But I know people that really do very well with an IDE.

One of the reasons I asked this question is to get us to talk about
what makes this tool most useful to us. For instance, why does Todd
feel that an IDE helps him program better and I don't. I would be that
neither of us is wrong. Understanding different tools and how others
work should make us better programmers.

G. Wade
-- 
Virtual is when it's not but it looks like it is and transparent is
when it is but it looks like it isn't.                  -- Rick Hoselton

From will.willis at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 19:31:56 2009
From: will.willis at gmail.com (Will Willis)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:31:56 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
Message-ID: <6ee1e6090901041931m4d59221bmf728598902d281a3@mail.gmail.com>

1. emacs: and not because it's *better* than vi, I gave each about a day and
emacs made more sense. Like Todd, I've kinda refused to retrain my brain to
vi, but I know enough to get around as it's EVERYWHERE. Now I have to say
that I have not tried an emacs I've liked in the windows world, perhaps I
didn't invest the time to learn the differences.
2. TextMate: at home I use mac. I use emacs most of the time, but when
working on a project involving lots of files, where seeing the directory
structure helps, I will lazily drag the root folder into textmate. I've been
tinkering with Mojo lately, http://mojolicious.org/, being able to see my
templates folder, public folder, etc, etc makes for quick switching between
files. Anybody else playing with Mojo?

3. on windows: notepad++ / crimson editor. Like I mentioned in #1, I haven't
found an emacs I like on windows or I'd use that. I basically like the fact
that both of these editors have tabs and syntax hi-lighting. I don't utilize
many other features than that.

4. I recently installed Eclipse (again) but only to do some android
development. Sadly, I've only had the time to finish the "Hello World" app
:) Anyone else have an android phone out there? Anybody developing for it?
Overall, I'm not a fan of IDEs, like Wade, I don't feel like they help me
develop any better or faster, a properly tweaked emacs will do that for me,
but the longer I use emacs, the more I tend to stick with the vanilla
install and get more and more away from all the cool minor-modes that auto
perltidy, syntax check, etc, etc...



-Will


On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:02 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:26:56 -0600
> "Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Robert Boone <robo4288 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > As you can tell I don't really care for IDE's, for me they mostly
> > > get in the way. I would rather build a working environment in an
> > > editor that let me do that in the way I think is best for me.
> >
> > I've gotta admit I'm surprised how many people feel a lack of interest
> > in access to IDEs. I find IDEs help me program/debug faster, as they
> > point out errors to me as I commit them, rather than 10+ minutes later
> > when I go to run the code. Usually there's little difference between
> > fixing the error before or after, but every once in a while, the
> > mistake is subtle enough that you end up spending much more time down
> > the road trying to figure out what tidbit of the code went wrong.
>
> I've used IDEs, including the Borland environments, Programmer's
> WorkBench (the IDE before Visual Studio), Forte, Visual Studio,
> NetBeans, and Eclipse.
>
> For editors, I've used M, ted, vim, TextMate, and edit. M and vim are
> the only two that had good enough macro and/or scripting capabilities
> to suit me.
>
> Honestly, I've never found that the IDE helps me program or debug
> faster. I suspect that it has more to do with a programmer's approach to
> code and way of thinking. Most IDEs seem too heavyweight to me. Most
> IDEs also don't support the programability that I find comfortable in a
> programmer editor.
>
> But I know people that really do very well with an IDE.
>
> One of the reasons I asked this question is to get us to talk about
> what makes this tool most useful to us. For instance, why does Todd
> feel that an IDE helps him program better and I don't. I would be that
> neither of us is wrong. Understanding different tools and how others
> work should make us better programmers.
>
> G. Wade
> --
> Virtual is when it's not but it looks like it is and transparent is
> when it is but it looks like it isn't.                  -- Rick Hoselton
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From fluhmann at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 20:50:03 2009
From: fluhmann at gmail.com (Jeremy Fluhmann)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:50:03 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Meeting
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f7c2d5e0901042050i2d011488y11f28da884f5f672@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Todd Rinaldo <toddr at null.net> wrote:

> > Of course, we could always do a meeting on editors.<grin type="evil"/>
> >
> > * Why do you use Eclipse/epic?
>

Every once in a while, I give Eclipse/epic a go again, but can't seem to
make the commitment (I mostly use Komodo Edit and sometime Geany).
Previously, it's been the whole Java thing, but I may have to try it again
soon.

Though I'm not at the meetings, I like to think that I'm there in spirit.
:-)

Jeremy
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From fluhmann at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 21:03:22 2009
From: fluhmann at gmail.com (Jeremy Fluhmann)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:03:22 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090812302037o327a7419r1035115d0742e572@mail.gmail.com>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
Message-ID: <7f7c2d5e0901042103t181c03a3hd90338f455f09efc@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 1:15 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:

>
> What editor do you use for Perl (or any) programming?
>
> 1. vi (or variants)


I use vim if I'm editing already existing code on a remote server or if I
need to throw something together on a remote server (or a machine without X)


> 3. Eclipse


I keep trying it, but it hasn't ever "felt" quite right for me


> 4. Komodo


I use Komodo Edit daily (free and open source -
http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/).  I also use it if I'm on a Windows
box and will be doing extensive programming, though depending on what it is,
I may write the code on my Ubuntu box, copy it over or stick it in
Subversion, then check it out on the Windows box (barring any Win32 specific
code)

5. Visual Studio


Not since college courses


> 6. Notepad


If it's something quick on a Windows box.


> 8. others?


I find myself using Geany many times, but just because it's quick to use.
If I want to take a quick look at someone else's code, I may open it with
Geany.

Jeremy
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From fluhmann at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 21:05:41 2009
From: fluhmann at gmail.com (Jeremy Fluhmann)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:05:41 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <6ee1e6090901041931m4d59221bmf728598902d281a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan> <20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090901041931m4d59221bmf728598902d281a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f7c2d5e0901042105r2bb5d3celbe73b62311a35945@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Will Willis <will.willis at gmail.com> wrote:

> the root folder into textmate. I've been tinkering with Mojo lately,
> http://mojolicious.org/, being able to see my templates folder, public
> folder, etc, etc makes for quick switching between files. Anybody else
> playing with Mojo?
>

I've printed out some stuff on it that I keep meaning to read through, but
haven't yet.  Hopefully in the next few weeks (I have a handful of projects
of which a few may utilize Mojo).

Jeremy
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From toddr at null.net  Sun Jan  4 21:11:50 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:11:50 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901042111m3b7a6deeubbc91193c8e676d4@mail.gmail.com>

> One of the reasons I asked this question is to get us to talk about
> what makes this tool most useful to us. For instance, why does Todd
> feel that an IDE helps him program better and I don't. I would be that
> neither of us is wrong. Understanding different tools and how others
> work should make us better programmers.
Amen. My thoughts exactly.

I think we have a topic. What do you guys think?

From kevin at shaum.com  Sun Jan  4 23:06:09 2009
From: kevin at shaum.com (Kevin Shaum)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:06:09 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <6ee1e6090901041931m4d59221bmf728598902d281a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan> <20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090901041931m4d59221bmf728598902d281a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b48c42940901042306p622690dek343c126f10dc0c92@mail.gmail.com>

<unlurk>

I have a G1, wanting to try programming for it, but just haven't got to it yet.

I use vim, Komodo Edit, and Notepad++. I do a lot of development over
an SSH terminal, so I need a purely text-mode editor like vim.
Notepad++ is fast, has file tabs, and lets me bookmark frequently
visited files. Komodo Edit also has tabs, lets me edit remotely by
SFTP, and lets me group files into projects.

I do a lot of work in Mason, and each of my preferred editors has
issues with syntax highlighting for mixed HTML and Perl. Komodo Edit
seems to come closest to getting it right.

I think IDEs aren't as popular with Perl devs (and maybe Python &
Ruby) as they are with Java and .Net devs because (a) scripting
languages are more concise, so we don't need as much help with the
heavy lifting, and (b) despite ActiveState's best efforts, there's no
IDE that groks Perl (etc) the way Eclipse and Visual Studio do their
primary languages.

</unlurk>

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Will Willis <will.willis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 4. I recently installed Eclipse (again) but only to do some android
> development. Sadly, I've only had the time to finish the "Hello World" app
> :) Anyone else have an android phone out there? Anybody developing for it?

-- 
Kevin Shaum
http://friendfeed.com/kevinshaum

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan  5 04:51:02 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:51:02 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <b48c42940901042306p622690dek343c126f10dc0c92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan> <20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
	<6ee1e6090901041931m4d59221bmf728598902d281a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<b48c42940901042306p622690dek343c126f10dc0c92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090105065102.6372fa31@sovvan>

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:06:09 -0600
"Kevin Shaum" <kevin at shaum.com> wrote:

> <unlurk>
> 
[snip]
> 
> I think IDEs aren't as popular with Perl devs (and maybe Python &
> Ruby) as they are with Java and .Net devs because (a) scripting
> languages are more concise, so we don't need as much help with the
> heavy lifting, and (b) despite ActiveState's best efforts, there's no
> IDE that groks Perl (etc) the way Eclipse and Visual Studio do their
> primary languages.

I'm keeping an eye on both Kephra and Padre. These two projects are
available on CPAN and are both trying for a cross-platform IDE for Perl.

G. Wade
-- 
Why do your people ask if someone's ready right before you are going to
do something massively unwise?        -- Delenn - "The War without End"

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan  5 04:54:10 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:54:10 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20901042111m3b7a6deeubbc91193c8e676d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<aca786350812302041k3f51a779v58ed33f2f4539fb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081230224926.5553a552@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901042111m3b7a6deeubbc91193c8e676d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090105065410.526d255f@sovvan>

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:11:50 -0600
"Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:

> > One of the reasons I asked this question is to get us to talk about
> > what makes this tool most useful to us. For instance, why does Todd
> > feel that an IDE helps him program better and I don't. I would be
> > that neither of us is wrong. Understanding different tools and how
> > others work should make us better programmers.
> Amen. My thoughts exactly.
> 
> I think we have a topic. What do you guys think?

It sure looks that way.

I can do the vim portion.
Todd, will you cover Eclipse for us?
Maybe we can get Will or Robert to do a recap of emacs?
Anyone else want to jump in on another editor? (or take over one of
these?)

G. Wade
-- 
Many people would sooner die than think. In fact, they do.
                                                 -- Bertrand Russell

From cmdickens at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 07:09:29 2009
From: cmdickens at gmail.com (Michael Dickens)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:09:29 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <20090105065410.526d255f@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901042111m3b7a6deeubbc91193c8e676d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090105065410.526d255f@sovvan>
Message-ID: <6db6c4a40901050709x21d9baacx1a4f6a540ef25753@mail.gmail.com>

I use vim since my all work is telnet into a Linux box.

I use Crimson editor on my Windows work desktop with ActivePerl
installed. I like the feature of executing my script and seeing the
results in the same window at the bottom. I only use Crimson editor to
check the results of short Perl code snippets.


Michael

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:54 AM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:11:50 -0600
> "Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:
>
>> > One of the reasons I asked this question is to get us to talk about
>> > what makes this tool most useful to us. For instance, why does Todd
>> > feel that an IDE helps him program better and I don't. I would be
>> > that neither of us is wrong. Understanding different tools and how
>> > others work should make us better programmers.
>> Amen. My thoughts exactly.
>>
>> I think we have a topic. What do you guys think?
>
> It sure looks that way.
>
> I can do the vim portion.
> Todd, will you cover Eclipse for us?
> Maybe we can get Will or Robert to do a recap of emacs?
> Anyone else want to jump in on another editor? (or take over one of
> these?)
>
> G. Wade
> --
> Many people would sooner die than think. In fact, they do.
>                                                 -- Bertrand Russell
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>



-- 
easy as Perl

From Wayne.A.Haufler at boeing.com  Mon Jan  5 09:56:55 2009
From: Wayne.A.Haufler at boeing.com (Haufler, Wayne A)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:56:55 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Houston Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1231099214.11346.houston@pm.org>
References: <mailman.7.1231099214.11346.houston@pm.org>
Message-ID: <B8D3B35D6093544C8B8813275BD7DDB207C88C14@XCH-SE-2V2.se.nos.boeing.com>

For the little perl editing I do, I use Eclipse with the Perl plugin
(whats its name).
Why?  Because it is one of the few editors available for use
in my employer's environment, and I like the idea of Eclipse
as a very open and extendable editing and dev platform.  
Unfortunately, I have not been able to use the PadWalker module 
for decent debugging, or I haven't re-tried recently.

I know vi fairly well from way back.  It has a certain elegant
power.

I had wanted to learn more of emacs, because I can appreciate its power,
but it (or what version that is available to me) doesn't seem to play
very well with Windows file system (file names with blanks and such).
I gave up.

Of course, using Word, a word processor, as a pure text editor is a bad
match, IMHO.  

-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Wayne A. Haufler
Senior Software Engineer (SE)
In Space Shuttle Program (SSP)
Backup Flight System (BFS) 
Displays & Controls Requirements Analyst
Boeing, NASA Systems, Houston
Voice: 	281-226-8626 , Cubicle: 5475
E-mail: wayne.a.haufler at boeing.com
Boeing Toastmaster (Club 4908):  VP Education 



-----Original Message-----
From: houston-request at pm.org [mailto:houston-request at pm.org] 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 2:00 PM
To: houston at pm.org
Subject: Houston Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2

Send Houston mailing list submissions to
	houston at pm.org

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Today's Topics:

   1. Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting') (G. Wade Johnson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:15:57 -0600
From: "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org>
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
To: houston at pm.org
Message-ID: <20090104131557.0ef264cf at sovvan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:27:36 -0600
"Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:

> > Of course, we could always do a meeting on editors.<grin 
> > type="evil"/>
> >
> > * Why do you use Eclipse/epic?
> > * Any particularly powerful/useful features that make your Perl  
> > development easier?
> >
> > Maybe everyone could bring a couple of cool tricks for their 
> > favorite editor.

Quick survey for everyone on the list.

What editor do you use for Perl (or any) programming?

1. vi (or variants)
2. emacs (or variants)
3. Eclipse
4. Komodo
5. Visual Studio
6. Notepad
7. TextMate
8. others?

Let us know what editor you use and the feature that you think makes it
a good choice for you.

G. Wade
--
"Very sad life. Probably also have sad death. But at least there is
symmetry."                                                -- Zathras


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/

End of Houston Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2
**************************************

From evan.kaufman at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 11:08:19 2009
From: evan.kaufman at gmail.com (Evan Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:08:19 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Houston Digest, Vol 50, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14161.1231178232.29685.houston@pm.org>
References: <mailman.14161.1231178232.29685.houston@pm.org>
Message-ID: <c18252740901051108o31532f0av1893a7f2f82fdd13@mail.gmail.com>

At work (on a mac) I use Textmate.  My favorite features:
- Opening a directory or group of files at once groups them into a
"drawer" that I can easily shuffle through, without actually keeping
all of said files open
- Small footprint, responsive UI
- Excellent syntax highlighting
- Bundles provide quick code completion templates

At home (on windows) I use Notepad++ primarily:
- Small footprint, responsive UI
- Good syntax highlighting

I also use Eclipse for certain languages like Flex (because of
FlexBuilder) and my recent foray into the Android SDK (because of
integration with the Android emulator).

Honestly, the best editor feature IMHO is Textmate's drawers, and I
would love to find a Windows/Linux equivalent to it.

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:57 AM, "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
>
> Quick survey for everyone on the list.
>
> What editor do you use for Perl (or any) programming?
>
> 1. vi (or variants)
> 2. emacs (or variants)
> 3. Eclipse
> 4. Komodo
> 5. Visual Studio
> 6. Notepad
> 7. TextMate
> 8. others?
>
> Let us know what editor you use and the feature that you think makes it
> a good choice for you.
>

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan  5 17:59:22 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:59:22 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Frozen Perl 2009 conference
Message-ID: <20090105195922.269e3286@sovvan>

If you happen to be in the Minneapolis area next month, you might find
this interesting.

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:43:58 -0600
From: Seth Viebrock <seth at viebrock.us>
Subject: Perl Monger Admins: Please forward to list if you haven't
received any advertisement for the Frozen Perl 2009 conference. Thank
you!


Frozen Perl is a three day event held at the University of Minnesota's  
McNamara Alumni Center in Minneapolis, MN. The main event is a one- 
day, two-track workshop on Saturday, February 7.

There will also be a Perl class taught by brian d foy of Stonehenge  
Consulting on Friday, February 6, and a hackathon on Sunday, February  
8. This class is being offered at a very low rate of $100 per person,  
and there are 4 student seats available at $25 each.

The early bird price for the conference is $20 at the student/low- 
income rate, and $40 for everyone else. These prices will double on  
January 12, 2009. We also have an individual sponsorship rate of $120  
if you'd like to give a little extra to support the workshop.

You can register for the conference at http://www.frozen-perl.org/

Thank you for your time and support!
The Frozen Perl 2009 Organizers


-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Windows lie.

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan  5 18:12:04 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:12:04 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Meeting
Message-ID: <20090105201204.2cd582ed@sovvan>

The first meeting of the new year is next Tuesday.

I will be leading a set of short presentations on different programmer
editors for Perl. The editor a programmer uses is often a very personal
choice. We will be working hard to make certain that no fights break
out.<grin/>

Anyone interested in doing a short presentation or demo of their editor
of choice should let me know, so that I can help to coordinate the time.

At the moment, we have the following editors/presenters lined up:

 * G. Wade Johnson - vim
 * Todd Rinaldo - Eclipse/EPIC
 * ?

We will again be meeting in the lobby at 1111 Fannin between 6pm and
6:15pm. We'll go up to the room from there. If you are interested in
coming and are worried about being left, contact myself or Todd Rinaldo
and we'll make certain not to leave you behind.

The information about the meeting location (including a map) are
available at http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html.

Hope to see you there.
G. Wade
-- 
Cannot say. Saying I would know, do not know, so cannot say.
                                  -- Zathras - "The War without End"

From robo4288 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 18:24:35 2009
From: robo4288 at gmail.com (Robert Boone)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:24:35 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20090105201204.2cd582ed@sovvan>
References: <20090105201204.2cd582ed@sovvan>
Message-ID: <174156BE-DAB5-4D08-9520-413282CB3D4D@gmail.com>

I don't know if I'll do it justice, but I'll demo emacs.

On Jan 5, 2009, at 8:12 PM, "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org>  
wrote:

> The first meeting of the new year is next Tuesday.
>
> I will be leading a set of short presentations on different programmer
> editors for Perl. The editor a programmer uses is often a very  
> personal
> choice. We will be working hard to make certain that no fights break
> out.<grin/>
>
> Anyone interested in doing a short presentation or demo of their  
> editor
> of choice should let me know, so that I can help to coordinate the  
> time.
>
> At the moment, we have the following editors/presenters lined up:
>
> * G. Wade Johnson - vim
> * Todd Rinaldo - Eclipse/EPIC
> * ?
>
> We will again be meeting in the lobby at 1111 Fannin between 6pm and
> 6:15pm. We'll go up to the room from there. If you are interested in
> coming and are worried about being left, contact myself or Todd  
> Rinaldo
> and we'll make certain not to leave you behind.
>
> The information about the meeting location (including a map) are
> available at http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html.
>
> Hope to see you there.
> G. Wade
> -- 
> Cannot say. Saying I would know, do not know, so cannot say.
>                                  -- Zathras - "The War without End"
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan  5 20:12:16 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:12:16 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Meeting
In-Reply-To: <174156BE-DAB5-4D08-9520-413282CB3D4D@gmail.com>
References: <20090105201204.2cd582ed@sovvan>
	<174156BE-DAB5-4D08-9520-413282CB3D4D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090105221216.3ad7c5ad@sovvan>

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:24:35 -0600
Robert Boone <robo4288 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know if I'll do it justice, but I'll demo emacs.

So that's:

 * G. Wade Johnson - vim
 * Todd Rinaldo - Eclipse/EPIC
 * Robert Boone - emacs

Anyone else?

G. Wade

> 
> On Jan 5, 2009, at 8:12 PM, "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org>  
> wrote:
> 
> > The first meeting of the new year is next Tuesday.
> >
> > I will be leading a set of short presentations on different
> > programmer editors for Perl. The editor a programmer uses is often
> > a very personal
> > choice. We will be working hard to make certain that no fights break
> > out.<grin/>
> >
> > Anyone interested in doing a short presentation or demo of their  
> > editor
> > of choice should let me know, so that I can help to coordinate the  
> > time.
> >
> > At the moment, we have the following editors/presenters lined up:
> >
> > * G. Wade Johnson - vim
> > * Todd Rinaldo - Eclipse/EPIC
> > * ?
> >
> > We will again be meeting in the lobby at 1111 Fannin between 6pm and
> > 6:15pm. We'll go up to the room from there. If you are interested in
> > coming and are worried about being left, contact myself or Todd  
> > Rinaldo
> > and we'll make certain not to leave you behind.
> >
> > The information about the meeting location (including a map) are
> > available at http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html.
> >
> > Hope to see you there.
> > G. Wade
> > -- 
> > Cannot say. Saying I would know, do not know, so cannot say.
> >                                  -- Zathras - "The War without End"
> > _______________________________________________
> > Houston mailing list
> > Houston at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> > Website: http://houston.pm.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/


-- 
Computer language design is just like a stroll in the park.  Jurassic
Park, that is.                                               -- Larry
Wall

From toddr at null.net  Mon Jan  5 20:22:20 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:22:20 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Programmer Editors (was 'January Meeting')
In-Reply-To: <20090105065410.526d255f@sovvan>
References: <20081230222446.54d18451@sovvan>
	<748c25c20812310542m76ded64dj93595bda3a4cabcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090102173009.68cafbd2@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901031027w4b5c0a78tb5c7d5a5643964d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104131557.0ef264cf@sovvan>
	<435624390901041610i1b869a49od518ff6e20a4ba2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<748c25c20901041626v76aaaf11i2f15510782068bd2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090104210203.77bffe10@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901042111m3b7a6deeubbc91193c8e676d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090105065410.526d255f@sovvan>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901052022j804aee6gdaae487a59fd061e@mail.gmail.com>

> I can do the vim portion.
> Todd, will you cover Eclipse for us?
> Maybe we can get Will or Robert to do a recap of emacs?
> Anyone else want to jump in on another editor? (or take over one of
> these?)

Anyone want to volunteer to review Padre? *grin*

From toddr at null.net  Mon Jan  5 20:24:55 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:24:55 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20090105221216.3ad7c5ad@sovvan>
References: <20090105201204.2cd582ed@sovvan>
	<174156BE-DAB5-4D08-9520-413282CB3D4D@gmail.com>
	<20090105221216.3ad7c5ad@sovvan>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901052024l294f1357y618961a1791aa7f9@mail.gmail.com>

> So that's:
>
>  * G. Wade Johnson - vim
>  * Todd Rinaldo - Eclipse/EPIC
>  * Robert Boone - emacs
>
> Anyone else?
I'm sure we (padre) have someone out there (padre) who might (padre)
want to review other editors!

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan 12 17:15:07 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:15:07 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January meeting is tomorrow
Message-ID: <20090112191507.5f6ac510@sovvan>

Sorry I'm late on the reminder. I've been without 'net access for the
last few days.

Our next meeting is Tuesday, Jan 13 (tomorrow night) at 1111 Fannin,
downtown. As usual, we meet in the lobby and head to the meeting from
there.

This month we'll be having multiple presentations from multiple people
on the topic of programmer's editors. The current line-up is:

* Wade Johnson - Vim
* Todd Rinaldo - Eclipse/EPIC
* Robert Boone - Emacs
* Phil King - Emacs and Debugging

If you have some trick that really helps you with your editor, we may
have time for a few "lightning talk" style presentations (<5 min). If
you don't feel that you have enough for a whole presentation, the
lightning talk style might be worth a shot.

Further information about the location is available at the website:
http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html.

Looking forward to seeing you there.
G. Wade
-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Windows lie.

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Jan 14 16:42:48 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:42:48 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Fw: UG News--Advanced Twitter for Business
Message-ID: <20090114184248.05f8ebdc@sovvan>



Begin forwarded message:

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:37:41 -0800
From: "Marsee Henon" <marsee at oreilly.com>
To: gwadej at anomaly.org
Subject: UG News--Advanced Twitter for Business


Hello

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Thanks for your help,

Marsee


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800-998-9938
http://ug.oreilly.com/
Follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/OReillyMedia

You are receiving this email because you are a User Group?
contact with O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop?
receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly,?
send an email to marsee at oreilly.com
================================================================


-- 
Perl's grammar can not be reduced to BNF. The work of parsing perl is
distributed between yacc, the lexer, smoke and mirrors.
                                                    -- Chaim Frenkel

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Jan 14 17:20:54 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:20:54 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Expanding on a Vim feature
Message-ID: <20090114192054.2f66e8b0@sovvan>

Last night in the talk, I commented on Vim's "text object" feature and
showed how to select everything between a set of { } or [ ] with just a
few keystrokes. I didn't talk much about another variant: "it" or "at"
where the definition of the text object is defined by XML or HTML tags.

If you are inside an HTML paragraph (denoted by <p> and </p>), and type
"dit" (without the quotes). It will delete everything inside the
paragraph, including nested tags. Using "cit" would, of course, put you
in insert mode to write a new paragraph.

Just thought I'd point that out.

G. Wade
-- 
There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third one
works. -- Alan Perlis

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Thu Jan 15 20:30:52 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:30:52 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January presentation notes are up
Message-ID: <20090115223052.22cb44b2@sovvan>

I've posted the notes I had on Tuesday's presentation on the website:

http://houston.pm.org/talks/2009talks/0901Talk/

If there's anything missing let me know and I'll add it.

G. Wade
-- 
You need at least two viewpoints to have perspective.
                                                    -- Rick Hoselton

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Thu Jan 15 15:50:19 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:50:19 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
Message-ID: <20090115175019.55bf67c1@sovvan>

Hi all,

I would like to have a few volunteers for our student outreach
program. If you know a likely candidate or have the time to do a campus
visit, please step forward.  Let's help make this happen:

  http://leto.net/dukeleto.pl/2009/01/perl-monger-parallelism.html

(Please feel free to contact me off-list if you or someone you know 
would like to volunteer.)

By reading this message, you agree to allow yourself to be volunteered 
for this task by one of your fellow members.

Thanks,
G. Wade

From toddr at null.net  Mon Jan 19 19:55:05 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:55:05 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <20090115175019.55bf67c1@sovvan>
References: <20090115175019.55bf67c1@sovvan>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901191955k1a05767o9941f6cf46bbd1d0@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know any College students. How do you think we should proceed?


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 5:50 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to have a few volunteers for our student outreach
> program. If you know a likely candidate or have the time to do a campus
> visit, please step forward.  Let's help make this happen:
>
>  http://leto.net/dukeleto.pl/2009/01/perl-monger-parallelism.html
>
> (Please feel free to contact me off-list if you or someone you know
> would like to volunteer.)
>
> By reading this message, you agree to allow yourself to be volunteered
> for this task by one of your fellow members.
>
> Thanks,
> G. Wade
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>



-- 
Todd Rinaldo
toddr at null.net

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Jan 20 05:05:54 2009
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:05:54 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <748c25c20901191955k1a05767o9941f6cf46bbd1d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090115175019.55bf67c1@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901191955k1a05767o9941f6cf46bbd1d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090120070554.6fa480bc@sovvan>

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:55:05 -0600
"Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:

> I don't know any College students. How do you think we should proceed?

Since we have around 80 people on the list, there's a reasonable chance
that one of them is a student or has contact at one of the universities
in town.

Anyone out there have any connection with one (or more) of the
Universities here in Houston? Not asking for volunteers at this point,
just contacts.

If we can get a contact, maybe we can set up some kind of meeting or
workshop where we can talk to students and let them know about the
GSoC. Some would probably jump at the chance to get real-world
experience and a stipend for some a summer of coding.

G. Wade

> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 5:50 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would like to have a few volunteers for our student outreach
> > program. If you know a likely candidate or have the time to do a
> > campus visit, please step forward.  Let's help make this happen:
> >
> >  http://leto.net/dukeleto.pl/2009/01/perl-monger-parallelism.html
> >
> > (Please feel free to contact me off-list if you or someone you know
> > would like to volunteer.)
> >
> > By reading this message, you agree to allow yourself to be
> > volunteered for this task by one of your fellow members.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > G. Wade
> > _______________________________________________
> > Houston mailing list
> > Houston at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> > Website: http://houston.pm.org/
> >
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Understanding is a three-edged sword.       -- Kosh in "Deathwalker"

From toddr at null.net  Tue Jan 20 06:18:46 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:18:46 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <20090120070554.6fa480bc@sovvan>
References: <20090115175019.55bf67c1@sovvan>
	<748c25c20901191955k1a05767o9941f6cf46bbd1d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090120070554.6fa480bc@sovvan>
Message-ID: <748c25c20901200618y2d19722cs4e4e95b63fb2fd59@mail.gmail.com>

The article was obscure. And I kinda knew what it was supposed to be
about. I suggest a re-digest

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:05 AM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:55:05 -0600
> "Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at null.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't know any College students. How do you think we should proceed?
>
> Since we have around 80 people on the list, there's a reasonable chance
> that one of them is a student or has contact at one of the universities
> in town.
>
> Anyone out there have any connection with one (or more) of the
> Universities here in Houston? Not asking for volunteers at this point,
> just contacts.
>
> If we can get a contact, maybe we can set up some kind of meeting or
> workshop where we can talk to students and let them know about the
> GSoC. Some would probably jump at the chance to get real-world
> experience and a stipend for some a summer of coding.
>
> G. Wade
>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 5:50 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I would like to have a few volunteers for our student outreach
>> > program. If you know a likely candidate or have the time to do a
>> > campus visit, please step forward.  Let's help make this happen:
>> >
>> >  http://leto.net/dukeleto.pl/2009/01/perl-monger-parallelism.html
>> >
>> > (Please feel free to contact me off-list if you or someone you know
>> > would like to volunteer.)
>> >
>> > By reading this message, you agree to allow yourself to be
>> > volunteered for this task by one of your fellow members.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > G. Wade
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Houston mailing list
>> > Houston at pm.org
>> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>> > Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Understanding is a three-edged sword.       -- Kosh in "Deathwalker"
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>



-- 
Todd Rinaldo
toddr at null.net

From toddr at null.net  Tue Jan 20 06:23:43 2009
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:23:43 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Opportunity for paid internship. Anyone know a worthy
	college student?
Message-ID: <748c25c20901200623n7bcc1e9asba5a8057055365b2@mail.gmail.com>

Perl Mongers,

Every summer, Google sponsors paid work from home internships for
college students to contribute their time towards an open source
project. The Perl community has plenty of work to be done. Google
usually has plenty of money. What we lack is knowledge of students
looking for an opportunity.

Does anyone know any college level students who might be looking for a
summer internship opportunity?

Thanks,