From gwadej at anomaly.org Tue Nov 6 20:43:17 2007 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 22:43:17 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting Message-ID: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan> I just realized that the November meeting is a week from today. So far no one has volunteered to present. Does anyone have a topic they would like to present next Tuesday? Does anyone have a discussion topic they would like to lead? Anyone have a project they would like the group to help with? Should we just have a social meeting? Any opinions? G. Wade -- Cannot say. Saying I would know, do not know, so cannot say. -- Zathras - "The War without End" From robo4288 at gmail.com Wed Nov 7 09:11:36 2007 From: robo4288 at gmail.com (Robert Boone) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:11:36 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting In-Reply-To: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan> References: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan> Message-ID: <435624390711070911y74314dcev7b5c2240940b960c@mail.gmail.com> I've been thinking about at talk called "Barely used perl". Basically, things in the perl core that don't get used much. I would talk about three modules: NEXT overload Attribute::Handlers I'm just wondering if anyone would find it interesting. Robert On Nov 6, 2007 10:43 PM, G. Wade Johnson wrote: > I just realized that the November meeting is a week from today. So far > no one has volunteered to present. > > Does anyone have a topic they would like to present next Tuesday? > > Does anyone have a discussion topic they would like to lead? > > Anyone have a project they would like the group to help with? > > Should we just have a social meeting? > > Any opinions? > > G. Wade > -- > Cannot say. Saying I would know, do not know, so cannot say. > -- Zathras - "The War without End" > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > From andy at petdance.com Wed Nov 7 09:13:01 2007 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:13:01 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting In-Reply-To: <435624390711070911y74314dcev7b5c2240940b960c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan> <435624390711070911y74314dcev7b5c2240940b960c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00EB96FA-3D85-4124-A953-EBDC6341178E@petdance.com> On Nov 7, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Robert Boone wrote: > I've been thinking about at talk called "Barely used perl". Basically, > things in the perl core that don't get used much. > I would talk about three modules: > NEXT > overload > Attribute::Handlers That sounds cool to me. I won't be there, but I'd LOVE it if you came up to Chicago to give it here. :-) -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From fluhmann at gmail.com Wed Nov 7 09:24:33 2007 From: fluhmann at gmail.com (Jeremy Fluhmann) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:24:33 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting In-Reply-To: <00EB96FA-3D85-4124-A953-EBDC6341178E@petdance.com> References: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan> <435624390711070911y74314dcev7b5c2240940b960c@mail.gmail.com> <00EB96FA-3D85-4124-A953-EBDC6341178E@petdance.com> Message-ID: <7f7c2d5e0711070924o21cb0f57l1bcfcca2d0288b93@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/07, Andy Lester wrote: > > > On Nov 7, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Robert Boone wrote: > > > I've been thinking about at talk called "Barely used perl". Basically, > > things in the perl core that don't get used much. > > I would talk about three modules: > > NEXT > > overload > > Attribute::Handlers > > That sounds cool to me. I won't be there, but I'd LOVE it if you came > up to Chicago to give it here. :-) YAPC::NA 2008, perhaps? ;-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/private/houston/attachments/20071107/1c1bb14c/attachment.html From gwadej at anomaly.org Wed Nov 7 16:38:01 2007 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting In-Reply-To: <7f7c2d5e0711070924o21cb0f57l1bcfcca2d0288b93@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan> <435624390711070911y74314dcev7b5c2240940b960c@mail.gmail.com> <00EB96FA-3D85-4124-A953-EBDC6341178E@petdance.com> <7f7c2d5e0711070924o21cb0f57l1bcfcca2d0288b93@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071107183801.7495c4fc@sovvan> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:24:33 -0600 "Jeremy Fluhmann" wrote: > On 11/7/07, Andy Lester wrote: > > > > > > On Nov 7, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Robert Boone wrote: > > > > > I've been thinking about at talk called "Barely used perl". > > > Basically, things in the perl core that don't get used much. > > > I would talk about three modules: > > > NEXT > > > overload > > > Attribute::Handlers > > > > That sounds cool to me. I won't be there, but I'd LOVE it if you > > came up to Chicago to give it here. :-) > > > YAPC::NA 2008, perhaps? ;-) You could practice at the meeting next week and polish it up for YAPC::NA in Chicago. What a deal! G. Wade -- Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming -- Brian Kernighan From robo4288 at gmail.com Wed Nov 7 18:20:57 2007 From: robo4288 at gmail.com (Robert Boone) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:20:57 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting In-Reply-To: <20071107183801.7495c4fc@sovvan> References: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan> <435624390711070911y74314dcev7b5c2240940b960c@mail.gmail.com> <00EB96FA-3D85-4124-A953-EBDC6341178E@petdance.com> <7f7c2d5e0711070924o21cb0f57l1bcfcca2d0288b93@mail.gmail.com> <20071107183801.7495c4fc@sovvan> Message-ID: <435624390711071820j7cba5e80pc30221a7310ff6e0@mail.gmail.com> I think we'll just start with the meeting next week and see wow it goes... :) On Nov 7, 2007 6:38 PM, G. Wade Johnson wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:24:33 -0600 > "Jeremy Fluhmann" wrote: > > > On 11/7/07, Andy Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Nov 7, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Robert Boone wrote: > > > > > > > I've been thinking about at talk called "Barely used perl". > > > > Basically, things in the perl core that don't get used much. > > > > I would talk about three modules: > > > > NEXT > > > > overload > > > > Attribute::Handlers > > > > > > That sounds cool to me. I won't be there, but I'd LOVE it if you > > > came up to Chicago to give it here. :-) > > > > > > YAPC::NA 2008, perhaps? ;-) > > You could practice at the meeting next week and polish it up for > YAPC::NA in Chicago. What a deal! > > G. Wade > -- > Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming > -- Brian Kernighan > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > From toddr at null.net Thu Nov 8 17:14:49 2007 From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 19:14:49 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting In-Reply-To: <435624390711071820j7cba5e80pc30221a7310ff6e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071106224317.711acef8@sovvan><435624390711070911y74314dcev7b5c2240940b960c@mail.gmail.com><00EB96FA-3D85-4124-A953-EBDC6341178E@petdance.com><7f7c2d5e0711070924o21cb0f57l1bcfcca2d0288b93@mail.gmail.com><20071107183801.7495c4fc@sovvan> <435624390711071820j7cba5e80pc30221a7310ff6e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a301c8226d$ed77cc10$0201a8c0@covenant> Sounds interesting. Looking forward to it! I've also got to get around to asking how my anonymous code venture after Wade's talk went wrong. Bart says anonymous code doesn't like me. Todd > -----Original Message----- > From: houston-bounces+toddr=null.net at pm.org > [mailto:houston-bounces+toddr=null.net at pm.org] On Behalf Of > Robert Boone > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:21 PM > To: Houston.pm located in Houston, TX. > Subject: Re: [pm-h] November Meeting > > I think we'll just start with the meeting next week and see > wow it goes... :) > > On Nov 7, 2007 6:38 PM, G. Wade Johnson wrote: > > > > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:24:33 -0600 > > "Jeremy Fluhmann" wrote: > > > > > On 11/7/07, Andy Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 7, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Robert Boone wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've been thinking about at talk called "Barely used perl". > > > > > Basically, things in the perl core that don't get used much. > > > > > I would talk about three modules: > > > > > NEXT > > > > > overload > > > > > Attribute::Handlers > > > > > > > > That sounds cool to me. I won't be there, but I'd LOVE > it if you > > > > came up to Chicago to give it here. :-) > > > > > > > > > YAPC::NA 2008, perhaps? ;-) > > > > You could practice at the meeting next week and polish it up for > > YAPC::NA in Chicago. What a deal! > > > > G. Wade > > -- > > Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming > > -- Brian Kernighan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Houston mailing list > > Houston at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > From kristoferhoch at yahoo.com Fri Nov 9 04:18:38 2007 From: kristoferhoch at yahoo.com (Kristofer Hoch) Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 04:18:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting Message-ID: <617035.96315.qm@web33315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Anonymous code? Oh, that sounds interesting, do tell. -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT d(d++) s+:++>s+:+ a33>29 C++ UB+ UL+++ UA HU+ HI+ US++ P++++$ W+++$ w PS+ PE t++ b+ G DI++>DI e r+++ z++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ----- Original Message ---- From: Todd Rinaldo To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 7:14:49 PM Subject: Re: [pm-h] November Meeting Sounds interesting. Looking forward to it! I've also got to get around to asking how my anonymous code venture after Wade's talk went wrong. Bart says anonymous code doesn't like me. Todd > -----Original Message----- > From: houston-bounces+toddr=null.net at pm.org > [mailto:houston-bounces+toddr=null.net at pm.org] On Behalf Of > Robert Boone > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:21 PM > To: Houston.pm located in Houston, TX. > Subject: Re: [pm-h] November Meeting > > I think we'll just start with the meeting next week and see > wow it goes... :) > > On Nov 7, 2007 6:38 PM, G. Wade Johnson wrote: > > > > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:24:33 -0600 > > "Jeremy Fluhmann" wrote: > > > > > On 11/7/07, Andy Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 7, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Robert Boone wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've been thinking about at talk called "Barely used perl". > > > > > Basically, things in the perl core that don't get used much. > > > > > I would talk about three modules: > > > > > NEXT > > > > > overload > > > > > Attribute::Handlers > > > > > > > > That sounds cool to me. I won't be there, but I'd LOVE > it if you > > > > came up to Chicago to give it here. :-) > > > > > > > > > YAPC::NA 2008, perhaps? ;-) > > > > You could practice at the meeting next week and polish it up for > > YAPC::NA in Chicago. What a deal! > > > > G. Wade > > -- > > Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming > > -- Brian Kernighan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Houston mailing list > > Houston at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ Houston mailing list Houston at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston Website: http://houston.pm.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/private/houston/attachments/20071109/e25a7b99/attachment.html From will.willis at gmail.com Fri Nov 9 10:37:33 2007 From: will.willis at gmail.com (Will Willis) Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:37:33 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] LinkedIn Perl Mongers group Message-ID: <6ee1e6090711091037m6c0c1ce0v48c150e98ea4698f@mail.gmail.com> See use Perl; for details on joining: http://use.perl.org/articles/07/11/08/2140225.shtml -Will From gwadej at anomaly.org Sun Nov 11 20:40:08 2007 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:40:08 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November Meeting Message-ID: <20071111224008.565de95e@sovvan> This is just a note to remind everyone that this Tuesday is the November Houston.pm meeting. As usual, we will be meeting downtown at 1111 Fannin St. We'll meet in the lobby between 6pm and 6:20pm and go on to the meeting room from there. This month Robert Boone will present "Barely Used Perl". Hope to see you there. G. Wade -- Any time things appear to be going better, you have overlooked something. From toddr at null.net Sun Nov 18 12:24:38 2007 From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:24:38 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] November meeting re-cap Message-ID: <00fd01c82a21$0bbc8250$0201a8c0@covenant> The November meeting was as always very educational for me. We went over 3 "bareley used" features as presented by Robert. Robert's company heavily uses perl. Their customers oftehn have the problem of not having the exact perl modules expected when trying to use Robert's company's code. They therefore are taking the approach of preferring modules that come with the perl distribution, thus assuring that the customer has the modules out of the box. The first one was NEXT, which is a perl builtin module to provide proper inheritance calling for complex object structures. The second topic was a module called overload, which will allow you to change the behaviour of operators (+, -, ., etc.) so that you can do cool object things like adding 4 to an object and have it have meaning. This allows your code to be a lot more intuitive The third topic was Attribute::Handlers. An overly simplistic explanation of this complex topic is that it will allow your subroutines to behave differently based on what they should return. It also provides support for better inheritance handling. We also re-hashed briefley some issues I had after Wade's talk on anonymous code references. I was attempting to use anonymous code creation when inside an object. We were able to work through the issues and I now have a sub in an object that creates references to subroutines in the scope of the object (phew!). Thanks for your time and expertise as always Robert and Wade! From toddr at null.net Sun Nov 18 13:03:20 2007 From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:03:20 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] January meeting proposal Message-ID: <00fe01c82a26$73a2ebc0$0201a8c0@covenant> In keeping with tradition, there will be no December Perl monger's meeting. This means the next meeting will be January 8, 2008. We discussed in the November meeting my doing a presentation of Net::Jabber::Bot. (http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-Jabber-Bot/) In a addition to the intro to the bot. The group has decided they'd like to take a stab at maintaining it together. I've put together some thoughts below on the module as it stands right now. I thought maybe we could discuss it before the meeting to help decide direction and also what info will be useful to people to get us going quickly. Existing perl Jabber bots in the field: Jpb (http://jpb.sphene.net/wiki/show/JPB) seemed like a good candidate to me originally so I wouldn't have to write my own. The problem as I got into it was that the code badly mixed with the config so that I would have to alter the modules any time I wanted to change something. I decided to write my own. Net::Jabber::Bot Synopsis: The module heavily leverages Net::Jabber, which is really just a thin shell on top of Net::XMPP. I have developed this module over the last few months to allow me to separate out the things one wants to do with a bot from the things that can get you in a lot of trouble with a bot. The assumption I started with is that most people simply want to create a bot that can do something every once and while and that is able to react when new messages it cares about are sent. This is what the module aims to do. Needed code enhancements to the module. 1. Needs to be able to react to version requests. This requires being able to generate customized messages. This trick is documented between Net::XMPP and Net::Jabber, but I lack the object oriented experience to implement it. 2. Needs to be able to tell what messages are just history messages. Currently the bot does this by ignoring everyone for a period on startup. I consider this to be a hack at the moment that sometimes fails if the server is slow. 3. Make test is a mess. Almost all of the tests require a jabber server to be present. This is making the modules tests to look very red on the automated CPAN testers site. Robert and Wade told me I should be programming to the interface. This sounds like a grand plan but I have no idea what it means :) 4. Some of my design decisions could use a closer look as to some of the values being hard coded, etc. Originally I envisioned a Net::Jabber::Bot being inherited from Net::Jabber::Bot::Safety, but I decided to just merge the 2 ideas. I'd love to explore if the choice I made was a good one. 5. Currently the module is initialized and connections are made via a new being fed a hash from hell. It feels like a kludgy approach to me at the moment. 6. The re-connect algorithm seems to have issues 7. While it's perfectly safe to connect to a jabber server with the same username, it's very dangerous to the server to connect with the same user/resource. Unfortunately I haven't figured out a way to detect that I'm doing this. As a result I've been "chastised" by server admins for not noticing that I hadn't killed the old bot when I started the new one up. 8. Ability to add/leave forums at times other than startup. Probably a good candidate for removal from new. I don't know what to look for to detect if the join succeeded. Right now I'm just assuming the room joins succeed. Documentation need 1. POD documentation is a little loose on the existing subs. I'm not documenting the private ones at all except for a few comments in the file. Not sure what the etiquette is on this. I really don't think they should be showing up on CPAN and if I pod them, they will. 2. Need code examples on how to leverage the bot. This is pretty easy to provide, but I haven't reverse engineered someone else's CPAN to figure out how they do this to make it look right in CPAN. Issues: 1. I need an SVN location if we're going to do group collaboration. Anyone have ideas? From robo4288 at gmail.com Mon Nov 19 18:20:59 2007 From: robo4288 at gmail.com (Robert Boone) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:20:59 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] January meeting proposal In-Reply-To: <00fe01c82a26$73a2ebc0$0201a8c0@covenant> References: <00fe01c82a26$73a2ebc0$0201a8c0@covenant> Message-ID: <435624390711191820r59c5a5ebp3c7f85c6675b6147@mail.gmail.com> For the rest of the questions I need to look at the code more. > > 3. Make test is a mess. Almost all of the tests require a jabber server to > be present. This is making the modules tests to look very red on the > automated CPAN testers site. Robert and Wade told me I should be > programming > to the interface. This sounds like a grand plan but I have no idea what it > means :) I was looking through the tests for Net::Jabber and Net::XMPP both use the authors live jabber server. I'm not sure thats the greatest idea. I think we need to make a MockObject to replace XML::Stream. That may make testing easier. >From looking at the code I thing we would do this for Net::Jabber::Server. But I could be wrong. > > 1. I need an SVN location if we're going to do group collaboration. Anyone > have ideas? There's alway Google project hosting: http://code.google.com/hosting/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/private/houston/attachments/20071119/23c6c43b/attachment.html