From andy at petdance.com Thu Dec 7 22:52:04 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 00:52:04 -0600 Subject: [Hackathons] Hackathon Chicago costs recap Message-ID: <39E30DDA-43A2-4DE0-9476-1213AEDFE966@petdance.com> Pete and I have assembled the costs of the Chicago Hackathon, and here they are. Note that in the Excel Workbook, we have our initial estimates, and then the actuals next to them. Here are random thoughts we braindumped: Note that our estimates for the number of attendees for each day turned out to be low. We don't think that you should necessarily infer anything from this, however. Your mileage will certainly vary. For all we know, we got a great turnout just from the novelty of it. The headcounts for number of attendees for each day is inaccurate. I just counted the number of people from the attendees page on the wiki, but I know it's low. The spreadsheet says we had 24+3 on Saturday, but I know we had at least 30 for pizza. We were surprised by the number of out-of-towners who made it. Andy's original intention was to have something local people could come to, and they did. However, the nationwide, indeed worldwide, draw of the Hackathon surpirsed us. The Gay/Worthington room had 6 nights 'cause I told Michael Worthington (the guy from England) that we'd pop all the nights of his stay. I was just so tickled to have someone come that far! I was surprised how many people stayed over Sunday night. I expected that more people would fly back home Sunday night. All the headcounts don't include Pete/Andy/Chip, because those are the ones we knew would be coming. I'm more interested in the ones that we had to guess at. I wound up getting a room for us to keep stuff in, and for me to stay overnight. I wanted to have either me or Pete on the premises all the time. We may be able to save money on future hackathons by reducing the discount on rooms for overnighters. Certainly the number of people coming is highly elastic, and the sleeping room costs were 35% of the total cost. Would fewer have people have come/stayed if the rooms were $69/night rather than $59/night? Maybe, but that $10 difference would have saved TPF $430. Heck, do we need to provide a discount at all? This may be dependent on where it is and what the base room rate with the hotel is. This may also depend on if there's any sponsorship. When figuring dinner, account for the tip and any delivery charges. Small base snack run with additional if neceessary. Don't try to buy a weekend's worth at once. Use simple, JIT snack purchasing. The standard supermarket was a better solution than going to Sam's/Costco because we didn't buy more than we needed. Per-unit pricing may be higher at the supermarket, but the total expense is higher at Sam's, and much may well be thrown away. xoxo, Andy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: expenses.xls Type: application/octet-stream Size: 46592 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/hackathons/attachments/20061208/2ef7802c/attachment-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From ann at domaintje.com Mon Dec 11 04:44:50 2006 From: ann at domaintje.com (Ann Barcomb) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:44:50 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Hackathons] Scope of list? Message-ID: <20061211134408.W94999@primus.biocede.com> Hi, I've just joined the list because there has been some discussion on doing hackathons in Europe. I'd like to know if the scope of this list is NA only, or if the rest of the world is included. Thanks, Ann From andy at petdance.com Mon Dec 11 06:33:30 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:33:30 -0600 Subject: [Hackathons] Scope of list? In-Reply-To: <20061211134408.W94999@primus.biocede.com> References: <20061211134408.W94999@primus.biocede.com> Message-ID: > > I'd like to know if the scope of this list is NA only, or if the > rest of the world is included. Everyone. Let's hear your thoughts. -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Mon Dec 11 06:42:19 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:42:19 -0600 Subject: [Hackathons] Scope of list? In-Reply-To: References: <20061211134408.W94999@primus.biocede.com> Message-ID: <02CFC009-23C8-4578-8C18-20F827A9F7FE@petdance.com> On Dec 11, 2006, at 8:33 AM, Andy Lester wrote: >> >> I'd like to know if the scope of this list is NA only, or if the >> rest of the world is included. > > Everyone. Let's hear your thoughts. And I just pointed Jim Keenan here 'cause he's interested in hosting a hackathon in the NE US. -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From ann at domaintje.com Mon Dec 11 06:54:37 2006 From: ann at domaintje.com (Ann Barcomb) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:54:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Hackathons] Scope of list? In-Reply-To: References: <20061211134408.W94999@primus.biocede.com> Message-ID: <20061211154432.A4168@primus.biocede.com> Thanks for your answer, Andy. Jonathan Worthington suggested the idea of European hackathons, and Philippe Bruhat brought up the idea on the (YAPC::Europe Foundation) YEF mailing list. We are still not sure how much support YEF could provide to something like this, although many people on the board were excited about the idea. Anyhow, I am thinking that I may try to organise something in the first few months of next year. First I will want to read up on it a bit more, to see if I feel capable, and discuss with YEF and TPF about possible donations toward the cause. Another thing would be to see what kind of interest there is among programmers. I'm going to mention it at Amsterdam.pm tomorrow, and suggest that anyone who might be interested in attending join this mailing list. My question to the people already on this list is whether anyone would consider traveling for a stand-alone hackathon in the Netherlands (or possibly Germany), and if so, what kind of dates appeal to you? And of course, to previous organisers, any comments on how long the event was planned, and how it was publicised, plus how you arrived at the estimates of attendee numbers would be appreciated. Thanks, Ann On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, Andy Lester wrote: > Everyone. Let's hear your thoughts. From publiustemp-hackathon at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 07:15:31 2006 From: publiustemp-hackathon at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:15:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Hackathons] Scope of list? In-Reply-To: <20061211154432.A4168@primus.biocede.com> Message-ID: <952934.61080.qm@web60813.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ann Barcomb wrote: > My question to the people already on this list is whether anyone > would > consider traveling for a stand-alone hackathon in the Netherlands (or > possibly Germany), and if so, what kind of dates appeal to you? I would certainly consider it. It would be one heck of a lot easier for me to travel there than back to the US. Cheers, Ovid -- Buy the book -- http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/ Perl and CGI -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From cbrandt at buffalo.edu Mon Dec 11 07:34:47 2006 From: cbrandt at buffalo.edu (Jim Brandt) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 10:34:47 -0500 Subject: [Hackathons] Scope of list? In-Reply-To: References: <20061211134408.W94999@primus.biocede.com> Message-ID: <457D7A97.8090701@buffalo.edu> I would think the scope would be world-wide until we think it shouldn't. That is, if in the future there is a ton of site-specific traffic such that everyone doesn't need to see it, we could spin off other lists. Until then, and at this early phase of formalizing hackathons, I think it would be best to share as much information as possible. I think we also want to provide some degree of coordination so hackathons are spread out on the calendar and around the globe. Andy Lester wrote: >> I'd like to know if the scope of this list is NA only, or if the >> rest of the world is included. > > Everyone. Let's hear your thoughts. > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Hackathons mailing list > Hackathons at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathons -- Jim Brandt Conferences Chair The Perl Foundation email: cbrandt at perlfoundation.org IM: cbrandtbuffalo at mac.com perlmonks: cbrandtbuffalo From jerry.gay at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 11:37:05 2006 From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:37:05 -0800 Subject: [Hackathons] howdy from seattle Message-ID: <1d9a3f400612131137o7eb4203dxf476f0b96031350a@mail.gmail.com> andy just made me aware of this list, and i wanted to make sure the pacific northwest was represented. seattle.pm would love to host a hackathon. having attended the chicago hackathon, i know what a great opportunity this is to bring perl hackers together. if there's any other folks here from the area (vancouver, portland, etc) let me know. maybe we can work something out in between cities. since josh is leaving portland, i don't know if someone in portland will step up to fill his shoes, or if that will be me :) ~jerry From andy at petdance.com Thu Dec 14 08:34:29 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:34:29 -0600 Subject: [Hackathons] TPF is tax-exempt Message-ID: <5C5DA7ED-FE35-42FE-BA0C-EE90CFE33803@petdance.com> TPF is tax-exempt TPF is tax-exempt TPF is tax-exempt I mention this because all the hotel charges that were made on the Chicago Hackathon had tax on them, and then they had to go reverse them and redo them, except that two of the rooms weren't covered and I just now caught it and they're having to reverse them again and it's a big pain etc etc etc. TPF is tax-exempt TPF is tax-exempt TPF is tax-exempt xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From cbrandt at buffalo.edu Fri Dec 15 05:26:50 2006 From: cbrandt at buffalo.edu (Jim Brandt) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 08:26:50 -0500 Subject: [Hackathons] TPF is tax-exempt In-Reply-To: <5C5DA7ED-FE35-42FE-BA0C-EE90CFE33803@petdance.com> References: <5C5DA7ED-FE35-42FE-BA0C-EE90CFE33803@petdance.com> Message-ID: <4582A29A.2010004@buffalo.edu> FYI, to qualify Andy's statement, TPF is a US federal tax exempt organization. Depending on the taxes you are being charged, you may need to do more work to avoid paying taxes, and I believe the rules are state and country specific. For example, for YAPC in Buffalo, I had to file papers with New York State and send our federal documents to have TPF become a designated tax exempt organization in New York. Once I had the New York state docs, then the hotel could exempt us from taxes. I've talked to others (Barbie and Richard Dice specifically) about tax exempt laws in other countries such as England and Canada. As you might expect, each nation is different and has different rules, especially if money is flowing out of the country to another group such as TPF in the US. That said, as Andy notes, keep your tax-exempt docs on you at all times and show them to the hotel folks every time you talk to them. Seriously. I work for a State institution (SUNY at Buffalo) and although we are tax exempt in NY, I find myself needing to tell vendors many times to make sure the bill comes out right. Jim Andy Lester wrote: > TPF is tax-exempt > TPF is tax-exempt > TPF is tax-exempt > > I mention this because all the hotel charges that were made on the > Chicago Hackathon had tax on them, and then they had to go reverse > them and redo them, except that two of the rooms weren't covered and > I just now caught it and they're having to reverse them again and > it's a big pain etc etc etc. > > TPF is tax-exempt > TPF is tax-exempt > TPF is tax-exempt > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Hackathons mailing list > Hackathons at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathons -- Jim Brandt Conferences Chair The Perl Foundation email: cbrandt at perlfoundation.org IM: cbrandtbuffalo at mac.com perlmonks: cbrandtbuffalo From rdice at pobox.com Fri Dec 15 06:41:29 2006 From: rdice at pobox.com (Richard Dice) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:41:29 -0500 Subject: [Hackathons] TPF is tax-exempt In-Reply-To: <4582A29A.2010004@buffalo.edu> References: <5C5DA7ED-FE35-42FE-BA0C-EE90CFE33803@petdance.com> <4582A29A.2010004@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0612150641k168a9accl22b560bcde8edea6@mail.gmail.com> > I've talked to others (Barbie and Richard Dice specifically) about tax > exempt laws in other countries such as England and Canada. As you might > expect, each nation is different and has different rules, especially if > money is flowing out of the country to another group such as TPF in the US. >From my experience organizing Perl events in Canada, TPF's 501(c)(3)(lmnop)(etc.) status in the US means nothing here. Also, I don't get a tax break for the receipt TPF can give me for the money I have donated to it over the years. However, TPF has other abilities it can offer potential organizers, both within and without the US, such as extending its liability insurance to events run in its name such as YAPC and (more recently) PPW. Applicability would have to be reviewed on a case by case basis (and reviewed BEFORE the event was run) to see if our insurance applies to your situation. At the very least it's a good place to start looking for coverage along these lines. Jim's warning to continually point out to people, vendors, etc. that (in the US) special status exists for TPF in terms of tax treatment is a very good one. Even if you tell one person once doesn't mean they won't forget when it comes time to make up the invoice, nor would the message be passed along to a different person if the task of making up the invoice was passed along to someone else. Cheers, Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/hackathons/attachments/20061215/3a1bca19/attachment.html